[tpm] Perl 7

Quantum Mechanic quantum.mechanic.1964 at gmail.com
Tue Nov 14 06:16:45 PST 2017


Your attempt to use logic in an emotional/political space is endearing! 3 snaps! ;)


> On Nov 14, 2017, at 11:46 AM, zoffix at zoffix.com wrote:
> Perl 7's already taken, bruh! https://github.com/perl7/perl7/ :)
> Sorry to say, but "+-1" sounds like a terrible name to me. Even worse than having a digit and a space as part of the name, it has two
> symbols and an ambiguity on how to spell them: is it "+-" or "±". Also:
> * It can't be used as an identifier in many of the languages, so anytime anyone would do Perl 6 related
>    work in another language they'd have to bastardize the name. This is the issue that Larry pointed out with "6lang" as the name.
> * It doesn't look like a name, so it'll inevitably be confusing when used in brochures and posters. This is especially
>    a pain point because currently we're looking for an *alias*, not a fully new name, to be mostly used by Marketing.
> * It reminds me about "+1"/"-1" convention used to vote on things in places like GitHub. I suspect "+-1" in that scheme would be interpreted as "indecisive".
> Also, some comments on your comments on reasoning:
> * Perl 6's modules do not need to end with `1`
> * There's no `+-` operator, but `+-1` is two prefix operators
> But thanks for thinking about it :) I'll add it to the pile of all the other name suggestions to look over during 6.d language release.
> Cheers,
> ZZ
> Quoting James <jamex1642 at gmail.com>:
>> no responses so far, but honestly i'm only half joking.
>> Summarizing the serious one half:
>> * +-1 could be an operator (successor) in the Church-Turing thesis.
>> * When talking about programming languages we are in fact programming
>> them. (that's why we love Perl!)
>> * If Perl 6 were named +-1 when talking about using it you would leave
>> yourself room for improvement or an escape hatch. :D
>>   Meaning this (+-1) is declarative because we don't have enough data
>> yet but we want the computer to do the work.
>> * Perl modules typically end with a value of 1. Exit codes are crucial.
>> * +-1 is pronounced "plus minus one" and means close enough in the
>> sense of epsilon.
>> * I don't think the +- operator is in use yet.
>> * there is an inverse operator -+1
>> What I'm talking about makes most sense in the thermodynamic sense of entropy.
>> To see why this is a sensible name for Perl 6 forget the details for a minute,
>> and try to see the concept as involving only direction and magnitude.
>> eg. it's a vector.
>> The driving idea is one of reversibility.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_entropy
>> ----
>> Entropy is an important concept in the branch of science known as
>> thermodynamics. The idea of "irreversibility" is central to the
>> understanding of entropy. Everyone has an intuitive understanding of
>> irreversibility. If one watches a movie of everyday life running
>> forward and in reverse, it is easy to distinguish between the two. The
>> movie running in reverse shows impossible things happening – water
>> jumping out of a glass into a pitcher above it, smoke going down a
>> chimney, water in a glass freezing to form ice cubes, crashed cars
>> reassembling themselves, and so on. The intuitive meaning of
>> expressions such as "you can't unscramble an egg", or "you can't take
>> the cream out of the coffee" is that these are irreversible processes.
>> No matter how long you wait, the cream won't jump out of the coffee
>> into the creamer.
>> In thermodynamics, one says that the "forward" processes – pouring
>> water from a pitcher, smoke going up a chimney, etc. – are
>> "irreversible": they cannot happen in reverse. All real physical
>> processes involving systems in everyday life, with many atoms or
>> molecules, are irreversible. For an irreversible process in an
>> isolated system (a system not subject to outside influence), the
>> thermodynamic state variable known as entropy is never decreasing. In
>> everyday life, there may be processes in which the increase of entropy
>> is practically unobservable, almost zero. In these cases, a movie of
>> the process run in reverse will not seem unlikely. For example, in a
>> 1-second video of the collision of two billiard balls, it will be hard
>> to distinguish the forward and the backward case, because the increase
>> of entropy during that time is relatively small. In thermodynamics,
>> one says that this process is practically "reversible", with an
>> entropy increase that is practically zero. The statement of the fact
>> that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases is known as the
>> second law of thermodynamics.
>> ----
>> Reaching for my algebra textbook [
>> http://www.hcm.uni-bonn.de/fileadmin/perrin/chap1.pdf ]
>> An algebra A over k is a vector space over k together with a bilinear
>> map A x A => A.
>> x(y + z) = xy + xz
>> (x + y)z = xz + yz for all (x,y,z) belonging to A^3
>> (ax)(by) = (ab)(xy) for all (a,b) belonging to K^2 and (x,y) belonging to A^2.
>> I see this as a basic requirement for consistency. In the above k is
>> the system you are modelling.
>> The algebra represents k's "digital" parts.
>> Wikipedia quoth [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisymmetric_relation]
>> if R(a,b) and R(b,a), then a = b,
>> As a simple example, the divisibility order on the natural numbers is
>> an anti-symmetric relation. In this context, anti-symmetry means that
>> the only way each of two numbers can be divisible by the other is if
>> the two are, in fact, the same number; equivalently, if n and m are
>> distinct and n is a factor of m, then m cannot be a factor of n.
>> ---
>> The reason I mention this is that there the order of operands in
>> typical multiplication over integers is undefined.
>> For every algebra, A there is an opposite algebra Aop where (x,y)
>> means yx instead of xy.
>> ---
>> And I've gone to far in one step, but if you think I'm wack or
>> something check this out, it's a good read:
>> https://projecteuclid.org/euclid.bams/1183548220
>>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 12:02 AM, James <jamex1642 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> This is a post of humour.
>>> I've got the best name for Perl 6.
>>> +-1
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