[tpm] Perl 7

zoffix at zoffix.com zoffix at zoffix.com
Tue Nov 14 03:46:11 PST 2017

Perl 7's already taken, bruh! https://github.com/perl7/perl7/ :)

Sorry to say, but "+-1" sounds like a terrible name to me. Even worse  
than having a digit and a space as part of the name, it has two
symbols and an ambiguity on how to spell them: is it "+-" or "±". Also:

* It can't be used as an identifier in many of the languages, so  
anytime anyone would do Perl 6 related
     work in another language they'd have to bastardize the name. This  
is the issue that Larry pointed out with "6lang" as the name.
* It doesn't look like a name, so it'll inevitably be confusing when  
used in brochures and posters. This is especially
     a pain point because currently we're looking for an *alias*, not  
a fully new name, to be mostly used by Marketing.
* It reminds me about "+1"/"-1" convention used to vote on things in  
places like GitHub. I suspect "+-1" in that scheme would be  
interpreted as "indecisive".

Also, some comments on your comments on reasoning:
* Perl 6's modules do not need to end with `1`
* There's no `+-` operator, but `+-1` is two prefix operators

But thanks for thinking about it :) I'll add it to the pile of all the  
other name suggestions to look over during 6.d language release.


Quoting James <jamex1642 at gmail.com>:

> no responses so far, but honestly i'm only half joking.
> Summarizing the serious one half:
> * +-1 could be an operator (successor) in the Church-Turing thesis.
> * When talking about programming languages we are in fact programming
> them. (that's why we love Perl!)
> * If Perl 6 were named +-1 when talking about using it you would leave
> yourself room for improvement or an escape hatch. :D
>    Meaning this (+-1) is declarative because we don't have enough data
> yet but we want the computer to do the work.
> * Perl modules typically end with a value of 1. Exit codes are crucial.
> * +-1 is pronounced "plus minus one" and means close enough in the
> sense of epsilon.
> * I don't think the +- operator is in use yet.
> * there is an inverse operator -+1
> What I'm talking about makes most sense in the thermodynamic sense  
> of entropy.
> To see why this is a sensible name for Perl 6 forget the details for  
> a minute,
> and try to see the concept as involving only direction and magnitude.
> eg. it's a vector.
> The driving idea is one of reversibility.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_entropy
> ----
> Entropy is an important concept in the branch of science known as
> thermodynamics. The idea of "irreversibility" is central to the
> understanding of entropy. Everyone has an intuitive understanding of
> irreversibility. If one watches a movie of everyday life running
> forward and in reverse, it is easy to distinguish between the two. The
> movie running in reverse shows impossible things happening – water
> jumping out of a glass into a pitcher above it, smoke going down a
> chimney, water in a glass freezing to form ice cubes, crashed cars
> reassembling themselves, and so on. The intuitive meaning of
> expressions such as "you can't unscramble an egg", or "you can't take
> the cream out of the coffee" is that these are irreversible processes.
> No matter how long you wait, the cream won't jump out of the coffee
> into the creamer.
> In thermodynamics, one says that the "forward" processes – pouring
> water from a pitcher, smoke going up a chimney, etc. – are
> "irreversible": they cannot happen in reverse. All real physical
> processes involving systems in everyday life, with many atoms or
> molecules, are irreversible. For an irreversible process in an
> isolated system (a system not subject to outside influence), the
> thermodynamic state variable known as entropy is never decreasing. In
> everyday life, there may be processes in which the increase of entropy
> is practically unobservable, almost zero. In these cases, a movie of
> the process run in reverse will not seem unlikely. For example, in a
> 1-second video of the collision of two billiard balls, it will be hard
> to distinguish the forward and the backward case, because the increase
> of entropy during that time is relatively small. In thermodynamics,
> one says that this process is practically "reversible", with an
> entropy increase that is practically zero. The statement of the fact
> that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases is known as the
> second law of thermodynamics.
> ----
> Reaching for my algebra textbook [
> http://www.hcm.uni-bonn.de/fileadmin/perrin/chap1.pdf ]
> An algebra A over k is a vector space over k together with a bilinear
> map A x A => A.
> x(y + z) = xy + xz
> (x + y)z = xz + yz for all (x,y,z) belonging to A^3
> (ax)(by) = (ab)(xy) for all (a,b) belonging to K^2 and (x,y)  
> belonging to A^2.
> I see this as a basic requirement for consistency. In the above k is
> the system you are modelling.
> The algebra represents k's "digital" parts.
> Wikipedia quoth [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisymmetric_relation]
> if R(a,b) and R(b,a), then a = b,
> As a simple example, the divisibility order on the natural numbers is
> an anti-symmetric relation. In this context, anti-symmetry means that
> the only way each of two numbers can be divisible by the other is if
> the two are, in fact, the same number; equivalently, if n and m are
> distinct and n is a factor of m, then m cannot be a factor of n.
> ---
> The reason I mention this is that there the order of operands in
> typical multiplication over integers is undefined.
> For every algebra, A there is an opposite algebra Aop where (x,y)
> means yx instead of xy.
> ---
> And I've gone to far in one step, but if you think I'm wack or
> something check this out, it's a good read:
> https://projecteuclid.org/euclid.bams/1183548220
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 12:02 AM, James <jamex1642 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is a post of humour.
>> I've got the best name for Perl 6.
>> +-1
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