[tpm] Why perl lost steam...

[Tom Legrady]

Perl 5 is not made easier by

@a = ( 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13 );
$b = $a[ rand @a ];
@c = @a[3..6]

At least perl6 turns those into

@a = ( 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 13 );
$b = @a[ rand @a.elems ];
@a = @a[3..6]

On the other hand, Perl6 changes things we're used to. And while it's
wonderful that Perl6 introduces powerful concepts, those new operations
require symbology : attributes, private attributes, list operations, all
sorts of fun stuff. It will stretch Randall Schwartz's abilities to provide
a clear and simple training program.

Tom
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Stuart Watt <stuart at morungos.com> wrote:

> Let's face it, Perl isn't exactly easy. I am hoping Perl 6 may help, but
> Perl 5 sigils and context take a lot of getting used to. When I taught
> students, they had a hard enough time with basic Java - which is essentially
> a trivial language by comparison. And so, basically, are Python and Ruby.
>
> Perl's merit is in the complex stuff. If all you need is standard SQL
> databases and CRUD, who cares? If you need to interface to LDAP, SNMP,
> Twitter, OpenSSL, math libraries, C code, email, ActiveX, etc. - that's when
> Java et al. gets harder and Perl gets easier. Especially when you need to
> connect several of them, which is typical.
>
> Personally, I love Catalyst, for the purposes I use it for. But then I did
> web app development in Spring, which is very similar. Neither are for a
> quick start, they are for seriously architected large-scale systems. If you
> want to learn how to develop a good web app, there is a lot to be said for a
> larger-scale framework, as you need to get the hang of how to separate
> concerns and encapsulate business logic effectively.
>
> Perl also (finally) has the object system it needed to do good
> architectures. With Moose roles, you can actually break up your code into
> functional components you cannot do with purely class-based languages.
> Spring's hacky AspectJ went towards this, with somewhat inexplicable
> terminology. The ideas Perl develops will continue to enhance other
> languages as the ideas become mainstream -- I am happy to work at the
> cutting edge that is modern Perl.
>
> --S
> --
> stuart at morungos.com
> twitter.com/morungos
>
>
>
> On 9/21/2010 10:14 AM, Dave Doyle wrote:
>
> While I do believe Perl has lost steam in the publics eye, I don't buy the
> hype.  CPAN is growing faster and faster (it's a curve).  This year's YAPC
> had about 70% of folk going to their first or second YAPC.  The ecosystem
> itself is doing just fine.
>
> That being said, I've looked and Django and Rails and they ain't my thing
> (neither is Catalyst for that matter).  But there are other options like
> Mojolicious and Dancer and as far as I'm concerned CGI::App still gets the
> stuff done.  I think Dancer would be an excellent way for newbies to get
> started in webdev in Perl.
>
> --
> dave.s.doyle at gmail.com
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Martin at Cleaver.org <Martin at cleaver.org>wrote:
>
>> I'd contend that building a Web app in Groovy on Grails is where beginners
>> should start.
>>
>> Grails is one (not several competing) Web Framework, Groovy is Java and
>> J2EE compliant, yet a scripting language with closures and implicit parallel
>> programming support. Together they give you scripting access to all the J2EE
>> components developed over the past decade while hiding the crappy
>> verboseness of XML and Java.
>>
>> Building a Web App? As much I know and like Perl I wouldn't start a new
>> Web App in one.
>>
>>
>> M.
>> --
>> Martin at Cleaver.org
>> http://twitter.com/mrjcleaver
>> +1 416-786-6752 (GMT-5)
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 9:36 AM, <arocker at vex.net> wrote:
>>
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Bill Stephenson <bills at ezinvoice.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >> It would seem that right now, when "Web Apps" are really coming into
>>> >> their own, CGI scripts written in Perl would be the place that
>>> >> "Beginners" would start looking.
>>> >>
>>>
>>> But CGI is sooo '90s, and even Web apps are passe now; it's all
>>> smartphones.
>>>
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>>
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