<div>Perl 5 is not made easier by</div>
<div> </div>
<div>@a = ( 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13 );</div>
<div>$b = $a[ rand @a ];</div>
<div>@c = @a[3..6]</div>
<div> </div>
<div>At least perl6 turns those into</div>
<div> </div>
<div>@a = ( 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 13 );</div>
<div>$b = @a[ rand @a.elems ];</div>
<div>@a = @a[3..6]</div>
<div> </div>
<div>On the other hand, Perl6 changes things we're used to. And while it's wonderful that Perl6 introduces powerful concepts, those new operations require symbology : attributes, private attributes, list operations, all sorts of fun stuff. It will stretch Randall Schwartz's abilities to provide a clear and simple training program.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Tom<br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Stuart Watt <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stuart@morungos.com">stuart@morungos.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">Let's face it, Perl isn't exactly easy. I am hoping Perl 6 may help, but Perl 5 sigils and context take a lot of getting used to. When I taught students, they had a hard enough time with basic Java - which is essentially a trivial language by comparison. And so, basically, are Python and Ruby. <br>
<br>Perl's merit is in the complex stuff. If all you need is standard SQL databases and CRUD, who cares? If you need to interface to LDAP, SNMP, Twitter, OpenSSL, math libraries, C code, email, ActiveX, etc. - that's when Java et al. gets harder and Perl gets easier. Especially when you need to connect several of them, which is typical. <br>
<br>Personally, I love Catalyst, for the purposes I use it for. But then I did web app development in Spring, which is very similar. Neither are for a quick start, they are for seriously architected large-scale systems. If you want to learn how to develop a good web app, there is a lot to be said for a larger-scale framework, as you need to get the hang of how to separate concerns and encapsulate business logic effectively. <br>
<br>Perl also (finally) has the object system it needed to do good architectures. With Moose roles, you can actually break up your code into functional components you cannot do with purely class-based languages. Spring's hacky AspectJ went towards this, with somewhat inexplicable terminology. The ideas Perl develops will continue to enhance other languages as the ideas become mainstream -- I am happy to work at the cutting edge that is modern Perl. <br>
<br>--S<br><font color="#888888">--<br><a href="mailto:stuart@morungos.com" target="_blank">stuart@morungos.com</a><br><a href="http://twitter.com/morungos" target="_blank">twitter.com/morungos</a></font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="h5"><br><br><br>On 9/21/2010 10:14 AM, Dave Doyle wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>While I do believe Perl has lost steam in the publics eye, I don't buy the hype. CPAN is growing faster and faster (it's a curve). This year's YAPC had about 70% of folk going to their first or second YAPC. The ecosystem itself is doing just fine.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>That being said, I've looked and Django and Rails and they ain't my thing (neither is Catalyst for that matter). But there are other options like Mojolicious and Dancer and as far as I'm concerned CGI::App still gets the stuff done. I think Dancer would be an excellent way for newbies to get started in webdev in Perl.</div>
<div><br></div>--<br clear="all"><a href="mailto:dave.s.doyle@gmail.com" target="_blank">dave.s.doyle@gmail.com</a><br><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 9:47 AM, <a href="mailto:Martin@Cleaver.org" target="_blank">Martin@Cleaver.org</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Martin@cleaver.org" target="_blank">Martin@cleaver.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">I'd contend that building a Web app in Groovy on Grails is where beginners should start.<br>
<br>Grails is one (not several competing) Web Framework, Groovy is Java and J2EE compliant, yet a scripting language with closures and implicit parallel programming support. Together they give you scripting access to all the J2EE components developed over the past decade while hiding the crappy verboseness of XML and Java.<br>
<br>Building a Web App? As much I know and like Perl I wouldn't start a new Web App in one.
<div><br><br>M.<br clear="all">--<br><a href="mailto:Martin@Cleaver.org" target="_blank">Martin@Cleaver.org</a><br><a href="http://twitter.com/mrjcleaver" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mrjcleaver</a><br>+1 416-786-6752 (GMT-5)<br>
<br><br><br></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 9:36 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arocker@vex.net" target="_blank">arocker@vex.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div>><br>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Bill Stephenson <<a href="mailto:bills@ezinvoice.com" target="_blank">bills@ezinvoice.com</a>><br>> wrote:<br><br></div>
<div>>> It would seem that right now, when "Web Apps" are really coming into<br>>> their own, CGI scripts written in Perl would be the place that<br>>> "Beginners" would start looking.<br>
>><br><br></div>But CGI is sooo '90s, and even Web apps are passe now; it's all smartphones.<br>
<div>
<div><br>_______________________________________________<br>toronto-pm mailing list<br><a href="mailto:toronto-pm@pm.org" target="_blank">toronto-pm@pm.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm" target="_blank">http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>toronto-pm mailing list<br><a href="mailto:toronto-pm@pm.org" target="_blank">toronto-pm@pm.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm" target="_blank">http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><pre><fieldset></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
toronto-pm mailing list
<a href="mailto:toronto-pm@pm.org" target="_blank">toronto-pm@pm.org</a>
<a href="http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm" target="_blank">http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm</a>
</pre></blockquote></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>toronto-pm mailing list<br><a href="mailto:toronto-pm@pm.org">toronto-pm@pm.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm" target="_blank">http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>