SPUG: Bagdikian's Observation, ukelele

Mon Dec 8 12:45:47 PST 2008

Bagdikian's Observation:
	Trying to be a first-rate reporter on the average American
	newspaper is like trying to play Bach's "St. Matthew Passion"
	on a ukelele.

Oh, yeah?  Check out Jake Shimabukuro (Wikipedia, youtube, Conan
O'Brien...)
Sorry, can't address the first-rate reporter issue, but you really ought
to check out this Jake Shimabukuro.

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Today's Topics:

   1.  perldoc failures on OS X (Michael R. Wolf)
   2. Re:  perldoc failures on OS X (Bill Campbell)
   3. Re:  perldoc failures on OS X (Jeremy Mates)
   4. Re:  perldoc failures on OS X (Andrew Sweger)
   5. Re:  perldoc failures on OS X (Michael R. Wolf)
   6. Re:  perldoc failures on OS X (Bill Campbell)
   7. Re:  perldoc failures on OS X (Michael R. Wolf)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:48:54 -0800
From: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
Subject: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <6DE0B9B4-EA4A-4AEC-A437-DBAB3F602315 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

[I'm writing this from OS X.  Thanks to all who responded to my  
previous "Perl on OS X" posting.  I'm very happy with the new  
"unibody" design (machined from a single aluminum block) which should  
hold up to the physical demands of my "road warrior" schedule.   
And.... I have a *native* command line.  Bye, bye Cygwin.  Thanks for  
making my XP sane. but so long....]

Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1  
problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.

     $ perldoc perl
     No documentation found for "perl".
     $ perldoc -f chomp
     No documentation found for "perlfunc".
     $ perldoc -q handle
     No documentation found for "perlfaq1".
     No documentation found for "perlfaq2".
     No documentation found for "perlfaq3".
     No documentation found for "perlfaq4".
     No documentation found for "perlfaq5".
     No documentation found for "perlfaq6".
     No documentation found for "perlfaq7".
     No documentation found for "perlfaq8".
     No documentation found for "perlfaq9".
     $

Look familiar?  Is this a Perl or OS X issue?

Is this partial install to be expected in OS X?  Am I expecting a full  
(developer) installation when a partial (GUI-user only) installation  
is the norm?  Or do I merely have a buggy installation of Mac OS 10.5?

On one hand, I want a complete Perl distribution, including  
documentation.  On the other hand there's lots of documentation that  
suggests not mucking with the native Perl installation in /usr/bin/ 
perl (see note #1 below).

If I need to install a more complete version of Perl, where should I go?
  - source install (from http://www.perl.org)
  - ActivePerl (from http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/activeperl)
  - fink (at http://www.finkproject.org)
  - macports (FKA darwinports? at http://www.macports.org)
  - darwinports (at http://www.darwinports.com)
  - Xcode (from ADC (Apple Developer Connection) at
http://www.developer.apple.com 
)

I was hoping that the simple stuff would "just work".  Did running  
Perl on Mac OS X just get as complex as running a Unix environment  
(via cygwin.org) on my XP box, or am I missing something simple?

Thanks,
Michael (the newbie OS X guy with 20+ years' Unix experience) Wolf

Notes:
  1.  From perlmacosx(1) man page:

[snip, snip...]

        Updating Apple's Perl

        In a word - don't, at least without a *very* good reason. Your  
scripts can
        just as easily begin with "#!/usr/local/bin/perl" as with "#!/ 
usr/bin/perl".
        Scripts supplied by Apple and other third parties as part of  
installation
        packages and such have generally only been tested with the / 
usr/bin/perl
        that's installed by Apple.

[snip, snip...]

Starting From Scratch
        Unfortunately it is not that difficult somehow manage to break  
one's Mac OS X
        Perl rather severely.

[snip, snip...]

Michael R. Wolf
MichaelRWolf at att.net

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:58:12 -0800
From: Bill Campbell <bill at celestial.com>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <20081208005812.GA21071 at ayn.mi.celestial.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
> [I'm writing this from OS X.  Thanks to all who responded to my
previous 
> "Perl on OS X" posting.  I'm very happy with the new "unibody" design 
> (machined from a single aluminum block) which should hold up to the 
> physical demands of my "road warrior" schedule.  And.... I have a 
> *native* command line.  Bye, bye Cygwin.  Thanks for making my XP
sane. 
> but so long....]
>
> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1  
> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.

I suggest installing the xcode package from the original
installation DVS, then pick up the on-line update.  I think the
one must sign up to Apple's free developer program to get to the
on-line updates.

The update includes fixes to gcc that caused gnu-tar to fail
building, but I don't remember the exact details.

I just did a couple of quick checks of perldoc on my PPC Titanium
Powerbook running leopard, and it works fine.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186

Bagdikian's Observation:
	Trying to be a first-rate reporter on the average American
	newspaper is like trying to play Bach's "St. Matthew Passion"
	on a ukelele.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:58:10 -0800
From: Jeremy Mates <jmates at sial.org>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
Cc: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <20081208005810.GD25165 at neamh.sial.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

* Michael R. Wolf <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
> Look familiar?  Is this a Perl or OS X issue?

OS X.

> Is this partial install to be expected in OS X? Am I expecting a full
> (developer) installation when a partial (GUI-user only) installation
> is the norm? Or do I merely have a buggy installation of Mac OS 10.5?

Apple hid the perldocs in Xcode. You would have to ask them why...

Jeremy

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:59:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Sweger <andrew at sweger.net>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
Cc: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID:
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0812071656240.1779-100000 at gandalf.addnorya.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:

> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1  
> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
> 
>      $ perldoc perl
>      No documentation found for "perl".
> 
> Look familiar?  Is this a Perl or OS X issue?

It *should* be there, I think. It works fine for me. But I have the
developer tools (Xcode) installed, so I'm not sure where the files come
from. "perldoc -l perl" on my Mac reports:

/System/Library/Perl/5.8.8/pods/perl.pod

(What's the OS X equivelant of Debian's dpkg -S /some/file?)

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:26:38 -0800
From: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: bill at celestial.com
Cc: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <64162050-A120-4F85-98D2-5588D5993FB2 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:58 PM, Bill Campbell wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>>
[...]
>>
>> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
>> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
>
> I suggest installing the xcode package from the original
> installation DVS, then pick up the on-line update.  I think the
> one must sign up to Apple's free developer program to get to the
> on-line updates.
>

The MacBook that I just purchased does *not* have a DVD with Xcode on  
it, contrary to years of queried, historical postings to the  
contrary.  This was confirmed with an 800-apple-techie conversation  
last week.  All Xcode must now be downloaded from the net.  It's  
chugging away as I type...

> The update includes fixes to gcc that caused gnu-tar to fail
> building, but I don't remember the exact details.

  gcc(1) isn't *broken*, it's *missing*!!!.  (That's just one of many  
other tools that cpan(1) looks for -- make(1), lynx(1), wget(1),  
ncftp(1), gpg(1)).  I expect that Xcode will solve that, too.

> I just did a couple of quick checks of perldoc on my PPC Titanium
> Powerbook running leopard, and it works fine.
>

Thanks....

Michael R. Wolf
MichaelRWolf at att.net

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 18:15:43 -0800
From: Bill Campbell <bill at celestial.com>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <20081208021543.GA21799 at ayn.mi.celestial.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>
> On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:58 PM, Bill Campbell wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>>>
> [...]
>>>
>>> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
>>> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
>>
>> I suggest installing the xcode package from the original
>> installation DVS, then pick up the on-line update.  I think the
>> one must sign up to Apple's free developer program to get to the
>> on-line updates.
>>
>
> The MacBook that I just purchased does *not* have a DVD with Xcode on

> it, contrary to years of queried, historical postings to the contrary.

> This was confirmed with an 800-apple-techie conversation last week.
All 
> Xcode must now be downloaded from the net.  It's chugging away as I 
> type...

Since I tend to keep updating old machines (e.g. the Titanium
Powerbook) all my experience is with purchased OS packages, not
with new machines running Leopard :-).

>> The update includes fixes to gcc that caused gnu-tar to fail
>> building, but I don't remember the exact details.
>
>  gcc(1) isn't *broken*, it's *missing*!!!.  (That's just one of many  
> other tools that cpan(1) looks for -- make(1), lynx(1), wget(1),  
> ncftp(1), gpg(1)).  I expect that Xcode will solve that, too.

Some of them certainly, but you may also want to look at macports
or fink.  As I understand it, macports works like FreeBSD ports,
building packages from source while fink primarily provides
binary packages.

When I started building the OpenPKG system on my PPC leopard box,
and found Apple's gcc broken, I first built gcc from macports,
then bootstrapped OpenPKG with that.  Shortly after that I found
the Xcode update, and restarted using that.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186

Good luck to all you optimists out there who think Microsoft can deliver
35 million lines of quality code on which you can operate your business.
   -- John C. Dvorak

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 23:42:34 -0800
From: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: Andrew Sweger <andrew at sweger.net>
Cc: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <FC5F9F68-D7E0-460E-9C0D-0432737B1C5D at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Andrew Sweger wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Dec 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>
>> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
>> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
>>
>>     $ perldoc perl
>>     No documentation found for "perl".
>>
>> Look familiar?  Is this a Perl or OS X issue?
>
> It *should* be there, I think. It works fine for me. But I have the
> developer tools (Xcode) installed, so I'm not sure where the files  
> come
> from. "perldoc -l perl" on my Mac reports:
>
> /System/Library/Perl/5.8.8/pods/perl.pod
>

Thanks.  It was *not* there prior to installing Xcode, but showed up  
at the same location after installing Xcode.

> (What's the OS X equivelant of Debian's dpkg -S /some/file?)
>

I don't know yet, but I will soon.

Michael R. Wolf
MichaelRWolf at att.net

------------------------------

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