[Phoenix-pm] UI Builder in Perl

Anthony Nemmer intertwingled at qwest.net
Mon Jun 21 02:58:06 CDT 2004

What's even worse is moving to a new apartment, injuring your left arm, 
and then having it give out on you while you are trying to lift a heavy 
monitor, losing, your balance, and having your right hand go through the 
livingroom window. =)
(stupid, stupid, stupid...)


Scott Walters wrote:

>Oh, one last bit of wisdom - if you're developing carpel tunnels,
>do *NOT* attempt to go rock climbing with your buddies. 
>You won't be able to climb rocks *or* type.
>(stupid, stupid, stupid...)
>On  0, Chris Krum <cakrum at cox.net> wrote:
>>Funny, I've been lurking on this list for some time now and I've never 
>>seen you show any propensity for argumentation. ;-) You always seem so 
>>quiet and reserved.
>>But seriously. What do you mean by "improving the Perl integration"? 
>>Are you referring to the integration of Perl and Wx or the ability of 
>>wxGlade to generate Perl code?
>>I guess the thing I have against tools written in one language 
>>generating code in another is that something is always lost in 
>>translation. Like the saying goes "Nothing does perl like perl." Take 
>>the new perl plug-in for Eclipse. Great idea, but I would imagine that 
>>there is a lot of perl syntax that a Java framework won't be able to 
>>deal with. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that anyone using Eclipse to 
>>write perl code will need to avoid most of the more interesting 
>>syntactic sugar because Java won't know what to do with it.
>>And that brings me to another of your points. The idea of "glue in 
>>other languages" to allow them to use perl code sounds good, but I 
>>don't think anything short of embedding a full perl interpreter is 
>>going to work. I don't imagine that's what you had in mind. Are you 
>>aware of any languages that have actually embedded perl? I seem to 
>>remember that M$ promised that the CRL would allow you to run any 
>>language but that when someone tried to create an interpreter for perl 
>>they had trouble with the fact that it was dynamically typed.
>>No rant intended. Just juxtaposing myself. (And man did it hurt!)
>>Anyway, all I'm really looking for is a perl project to help me keep my 
>>experience up. I almost never get to write in perl anymore.
>>Well, thanks for listening.
>>On Jun 18, 2004, at 8:02 PM, Scott Walters wrote:
>>>Hi Chris,
>>>I don't know of anything that does this, but I wasn't aware that there 
>>>a GUI builder for wx at all. I only knew about Glade.
>>>My money is always on integration. To use a near by analogy: There are 
>>>too many windowing toolkits out there.. Tk, Gtk, wx, Prima, X11::Motif,
>>>qt... probably some others I'm forgetting. Translating the
>>>features of one application into an implementation in another
>>>language creates more forks, more code to maintain, more "standards".
>>>Tk was widely successful because people wrote bindings for
>>>it for Scheme, Python, Perl, and even Java if I'm not mistaken.
>>>This was good for Scheme, Python, and Perl (thought the Java camp
>>>could care less). This in turn was good for Tk (again).
>>>I certainly understand the urge to take out the bulldozer and
>>>flatten my workspace before I start writing code, but there is a lot
>>>of incentive to resist this uge.
>>>Specifically, your energies would be better spent, in my
>>>opinion, improving the Perl integration, making it less C-ish and
>>>more language netural, improving documentation so that other people
>>>don't have to meddle in guts of other languages. This would involve
>>>learning Python, but learning new languages is kind of fun and very
>>>educational. The Python people did get a few things right.
>>>Here's another story. Majordomo is old, crufty, and not that well
>>>maintained. It's written in Perl. Mailman is new, and written by
>>>a friend of mine who is a security fiend, but it's written in Python.
>>>You may have noticed that the mail list changed recently from
>>>Majordomo to Mailman after what word of mouth says was a security
>>>breech. This, for the Perl users group lists. Outrage? Or wisdom?
>>>And another story. PHP has PEAR. Perl has CPAN. CPAN is hugely
>>>valuable to Perl and a lot of the success of the language is
>>>attributable to the producitivity boost CPAN brings. I'd love to
>>>see glue in other languages so that you can use CPAN, much like
>>>you can use Inline::Java to get at the AWT from Perl, or use
>>>Win32::* to get at the GDI, or use Inline::C to get any any
>>>C library. Rather than the PHP camp making any sort of generic glue at 
>>>they decided to reimplement the best parts of CPAN. This probably 
>>>like a perfectly reasonable idea to them, but you and I, with our 
>>>of what CPAN is and it's massive scope, find this absurd. I know I do.
>>>Okey, end rant. Mind you, I like to argue strongly for things that I
>>>don't really feel very strongly about, and just because I have a
>>>page full of "reasons" that things should be done one way doesn't mean
>>>I won't change my mind in my sleep tonight. So take this all with a 
>>>of salt. It's just my knee jerk reaction. If I tried really hard, I'm 
>>>I could make a convincing argument for rewriting it in Perl too ;)
>>>So I hope this is at least food for thought.
>>>On  0, Chris Krum <cakrum at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>I'm looking for a drag&drop UI builder for wxPerl that's written in
>>>>Perl. Any such animal out there? I've seen wxGlade and others that can
>>>>DO wxPerl but they're written in Python etc. so if I want to make
>>>>changes I'll have to learn a new language. Barring the existence of an
>>>>established project, would it be a worthwhile endeavour to start my
>>>>Phoenix-pm mailing list
>>>>Phoenix-pm at pm.org
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