[Phoenix-pm] UI Builder in Perl

Scott Walters scott at illogics.org
Mon Jun 21 02:46:14 CDT 2004

Oh, one last bit of wisdom - if you're developing carpel tunnels,
do *NOT* attempt to go rock climbing with your buddies. 
You won't be able to climb rocks *or* type.
(stupid, stupid, stupid...)


On  0, Chris Krum <cakrum at cox.net> wrote:
> Funny, I've been lurking on this list for some time now and I've never 
> seen you show any propensity for argumentation. ;-) You always seem so 
> quiet and reserved.
> But seriously. What do you mean by "improving the Perl integration"? 
> Are you referring to the integration of Perl and Wx or the ability of 
> wxGlade to generate Perl code?
> I guess the thing I have against tools written in one language 
> generating code in another is that something is always lost in 
> translation. Like the saying goes "Nothing does perl like perl." Take 
> the new perl plug-in for Eclipse. Great idea, but I would imagine that 
> there is a lot of perl syntax that a Java framework won't be able to 
> deal with. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that anyone using Eclipse to 
> write perl code will need to avoid most of the more interesting 
> syntactic sugar because Java won't know what to do with it.
> And that brings me to another of your points. The idea of "glue in 
> other languages" to allow them to use perl code sounds good, but I 
> don't think anything short of embedding a full perl interpreter is 
> going to work. I don't imagine that's what you had in mind. Are you 
> aware of any languages that have actually embedded perl? I seem to 
> remember that M$ promised that the CRL would allow you to run any 
> language but that when someone tried to create an interpreter for perl 
> they had trouble with the fact that it was dynamically typed.
> No rant intended. Just juxtaposing myself. (And man did it hurt!)
> Anyway, all I'm really looking for is a perl project to help me keep my 
> experience up. I almost never get to write in perl anymore.
> Well, thanks for listening.
> Chris.
> On Jun 18, 2004, at 8:02 PM, Scott Walters wrote:
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > I don't know of anything that does this, but I wasn't aware that there 
> > was
> > a GUI builder for wx at all. I only knew about Glade.
> >
> > My money is always on integration. To use a near by analogy: There are 
> > entirely
> > too many windowing toolkits out there.. Tk, Gtk, wx, Prima, X11::Motif,
> > qt... probably some others I'm forgetting. Translating the
> > features of one application into an implementation in another
> > language creates more forks, more code to maintain, more "standards".
> > Tk was widely successful because people wrote bindings for
> > it for Scheme, Python, Perl, and even Java if I'm not mistaken.
> > This was good for Scheme, Python, and Perl (thought the Java camp
> > could care less). This in turn was good for Tk (again).
> >
> > I certainly understand the urge to take out the bulldozer and
> > flatten my workspace before I start writing code, but there is a lot
> > of incentive to resist this uge.
> >
> > Specifically, your energies would be better spent, in my
> > opinion, improving the Perl integration, making it less C-ish and
> > more language netural, improving documentation so that other people
> > don't have to meddle in guts of other languages. This would involve
> > learning Python, but learning new languages is kind of fun and very
> > educational. The Python people did get a few things right.
> >
> > Here's another story. Majordomo is old, crufty, and not that well
> > maintained. It's written in Perl. Mailman is new, and written by
> > a friend of mine who is a security fiend, but it's written in Python.
> > You may have noticed that the mail list changed recently from
> > Majordomo to Mailman after what word of mouth says was a security
> > breech. This, for the Perl users group lists. Outrage? Or wisdom?
> >
> > And another story. PHP has PEAR. Perl has CPAN. CPAN is hugely
> > valuable to Perl and a lot of the success of the language is
> > attributable to the producitivity boost CPAN brings. I'd love to
> > see glue in other languages so that you can use CPAN, much like
> > you can use Inline::Java to get at the AWT from Perl, or use
> > Win32::* to get at the GDI, or use Inline::C to get any any
> > C library. Rather than the PHP camp making any sort of generic glue at 
> > all,
> > they decided to reimplement the best parts of CPAN. This probably 
> > sounded
> > like a perfectly reasonable idea to them, but you and I, with our 
> > understanding
> > of what CPAN is and it's massive scope, find this absurd. I know I do.
> >
> > Okey, end rant. Mind you, I like to argue strongly for things that I
> > don't really feel very strongly about, and just because I have a
> > page full of "reasons" that things should be done one way doesn't mean
> > I won't change my mind in my sleep tonight. So take this all with a 
> > grain
> > of salt. It's just my knee jerk reaction. If I tried really hard, I'm 
> > sure
> > I could make a convincing argument for rewriting it in Perl too ;)
> > So I hope this is at least food for thought.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -scott
> >
> >
> > On  0, Chris Krum <cakrum at cox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm looking for a drag&drop UI builder for wxPerl that's written in
> >> Perl. Any such animal out there? I've seen wxGlade and others that can
> >> DO wxPerl but they're written in Python etc. so if I want to make
> >> changes I'll have to learn a new language. Barring the existence of an
> >> established project, would it be a worthwhile endeavour to start my
> >> own?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Chris.
> >>
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> >
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