Concerning the Email Thread involving Reini Urban

[Mike South]

Ooooookay, I retract everything about how he should "feel", double down on
the non-judgemental-about-how-you-feel-about-it statement that there is
nothing to be ashamed of in a simple mistake.  If the community is shaming
that the community should stop it.

America is the land of hair-trigger politically correct overreaction.
 We're steeped in it here, but not everyone is from here or speaking their
first language, etc.  Let's all remember that before we chase away any more
participation.

A little more of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF

and we might have not lost this talk.

mike


On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Jonathan "Duke" Leto <jonathan at leto.net>wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I think it is inappropriate for Mike to tell Reini how he should
> *feel* about his past actions. That is out of line.
>
> Reini, your statements were misinterpreted and also seen through the
> light of a different cultural lens.
>
> Everybody wants to get together and nerd out about Perl. Let's try to
> concentrate on that, instead.
>
> Duke
>
> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Reini Urban <reini.urban at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mike South <msouth at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The only thing to regret, in my opinion, is that the way you phrased
> your
> >> observation was interpretable as racism.
> >>
> >> No honest observer has just cause to think you _actually are_ racist.
>  That
> >> _would_ be something to be ashamed of.  This honest error, in contrast,
> is
> >> something you can regret and correct, but shame is not called for.
> >
> > Well, I'm not so sure. I'm still super angry at me and ashamed, because
> > you never know who willl read that later and will get it wrong.
> > That's why I stepped back from my yapc talk, because I cannot really
> > stand everybody looking at me there.
> > But I'll probably come to the hackathon to talk about the projects and
> ideas
> > we are working on.
> >
> > A YAPC really should be about bringing perl forward and talk about
> hacking,
> > not about our stupid behavior, fights and mistakes we do online.
> > I don't want to see another CoC incident.
> > But I know that we need to socialize at least once a year, because online
> > communication is not easy. Esp. with different cultural backgrounds.
> >
> >> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Reini Urban <reini.urban at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On May 21, 2013, at 7:21 AM, Code of Conduct <coc at yapcna.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Code of Conduct <coc at yapcna.org>
> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The CoC Committee has received several complaints about comments
> made
> >>> >> by Reini
> >>> >> Urban to this list.  An immediate review seems to the support the
> >>> >> contention
> >>> >> that these comments violate the YAPC Code of Conduct.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Pending further review, and possible additional action, Reini has
> been
> >>> >> removed
> >>> >> form this list and will not be able to post here, nor receive email
> >>> >> from it.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The CoC Committee will investigate further and make a final
> >>> >> determination
> >>> >> which will be reported when it is complete.  With YAPC nearly upon
> us,
> >>> >> any
> >>> >> final determination may delayed, please allow us sufficient time to
> >>> >> respond
> >>> >> properly.
> >>> >
> >>> > We have taken some time and reviewed feedback on the incident
> >>> > yesterday. The mailing list was also put into moderation mode in
> order
> >>> > to allow for a cooling off period over the issue.
> >>> >
> >>> > Q: Why is yapc at pm.org being moderated under the Code of Conduct
> Rules?
> >>> > A: The list has long since been controlled by YAPC organizers. The
> >>> > list in the past (including this year) has also auto-joined
> conference
> >>> > registrants. The list also has little or no activity outside of the
> >>> > conference venue.
> >>> >
> >>> > Q: Why did you ban Reini from the mailing list?
> >>> > A: This was a suspension to give us a chance to review the issue and
> >>> > make a considered response.
> >>> >
> >>> > Q: Why was Reini added back to the list?
> >>> > A: Reini expressed remorse and requested a chance to apologize.  It
> is
> >>> > our opinion that the comments were made from ignorance and not malice
> >>> > and that he is sincere.
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks,
> >>> > YAPC::NA Code of Conduct Committee
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> I am very sorry and I hope it will not happen again.
> >>> I feel ashamed.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> yapc mailing list
> >>> yapc at pm.org
> >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Reini Urban
> > http://phpwiki.org/           http://murbreak.at/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > yapc mailing list
> > yapc at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
>
>
>
> --
> Jonathan "Duke" Leto <jonathan at leto.net>
> Leto Labs LLC http://letolabs.com
> 209.691.DUKE http://duke.leto.net
> @dukeleto
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/yapc/attachments/20130522/6540fea7/attachment-0001.html>