From admin at yapcna.org  Fri Mar  1 13:20:54 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 15:20:54 -0600
Subject: Velociraptor of Christmas Future
Message-ID: <CALC=KU+FUPw=cFd96FDkXZO+eRKXgTnhNJ+1sjNee_HmAv2Egg@mail.gmail.com>

http://blog.yapcna.org/post/44302648302/velociraptor-of-christmas-future

We?re pleased to announce that Matt Trout will send everyone off from
the YAPC conference this year as the Velociraptor of Christmas Future
(Or something like that). I?ve told him that even though we?re doing a
Dickens theme, he?s not allowed to just point and grunt.

<image>

From admin at yapcna.org  Fri Mar  1 13:30:39 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 15:30:39 -0600
Subject: Get the most out of YAPC by signing up for Training
Message-ID: <CALC=KUJbmWuK2KeanyAbDnCB4epfVkmbkKWNgPh-qk+-5x50qw@mail.gmail.com>

http://blog.yapcna.org/post/44314925087/get-the-most-out-of-yapc-by-signing-up-for-training

We?ve got a great line up of Master Class Training for YAPC this year.
Trainers include, Gabor Szabo, Michael Schwern, John ?genehack?
Anderson, Dave Rolsky, and Stevan Little. There will be classes given
both before and after YAPC.

The classes have something for people of all skill levels. This
includes a Zero to Perl class for someone who?s never programmed perl,
to a never before given class on Advanced Moose

We?ll be posting more information about these classes in the coming
days. In the mean time though, you can check out all the details on
the classes at: http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/training.html

You can also sign up and pay for these classes here:
http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/purchase

From admin at yapcna.org  Fri Mar  8 20:20:28 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 23:20:28 -0500
Subject: Thanks to WhiteHat Security, Diamond ($10k!) sponsor of YAPC::NA
	2013. :)
Message-ID: <CALC=KU+Sfw5qL74ARosSoKN6fByNPAG1GjxMrfQvUKXuE9EmFg@mail.gmail.com>

http://blog.yapcna.org/post/44911386654/thanks-to-whitehat-security-diamond-10k-sponsor-of

We?d like to thank our latest Diamond Level Sponsor, WhiteHat Security.

WhiteHat Security is the industry leader in Web (or application)
security, with an impressive client list of Fortune 500 companies.
While most companies are diligent in protecting their networks,
websites have emerged as the number one target for attacks. Website
attacks can be catastrophic to a company and WhiteHat helps clients
mitigate risks before they can be exploited. Founded in 2001 by
Jeremiah Grossman ? a former Yahoo! Information Security Officer and
application security pioneer, WhiteHat combines a revolutionary,
cloud-based technology platform with an extraordinary team of the best
application security experts in the business (our team includes super
talented folks from the likes of Google, Yahoo!, HP and BigFix (IBM)
to name just a few.) This incredible combination of resources enables
our customers in key verticals including e-commerce, financial
services, information technology, and healthcare, to prevent damaging
hacker attacks.

Not only are our products and technology leading the industry, but we
have an thriving culture and impressive team that collectively make
WhiteHat an exceptional place to work. If you are seeking a leading
edge technology company where you can make a tremendous impact and
build your career in meaningful ways, take a look at us! We?d love the
opportunity to get to know you.

WhiteHat Security is headquartered in the Silicon Valley (Santa Clara)
and also has a key technical team in Houston, Texas

For more information about YAPC sponsors, please visit:
http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/our-sponsors.html

From admin at yapcna.org  Wed Mar 13 20:29:49 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:29:49 -0400
Subject: Thanks to MediaMath, Gold sponsor of YAPC::NA 2013. :)
Message-ID: <CALC=KUJn8appM5Jq1qKdBKsZ0W_HRfwDoX07zQ7j4BvFbrjOaQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://blog.yapcna.org/post/45105061330/welcome-gold-sponsor-mediamath

We?re pleased to announce another sponsor, this time at the Gold level.

MediaMath empowers the online marketing professional with technology
and services that enable advertisers and their agencies to make more
efficient, effective and profitable marketing decisions across
display, social, video, and mobile media. Their math-driven
TerminalOne platform brings together digital media and data into a
powerful and flexible solution that simplifies planning, execution,
optimization and analysis of online campaigns. Since inventing the DSP
category in 2007, MediaMath has delivered results for customers that
include every major international ad agency and holding company.
MediaMath is a privately held company headquartered in New York..

For more information about YAPC sponsors, please visit:
http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/our-sponsors.html

From admin at yapcna.org  Wed Mar 13 20:32:23 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:32:23 -0400
Subject: Thanks to RKG Rimm-Kaufman Group, Silver sponsor of YAPC::NA 2013. :)
Message-ID: <CALC=KU+No37bYTBLWtSGy8oa-5ObnFxcerLsWBaA+GWHM0FLdw@mail.gmail.com>

We?re pleased to announce another sponsor, this time at the Silver level:

RKG is a full-service digital marketing agency that combines talented
and creative marketing analysts with unmatched proprietary
technological capabilities to create the industry?s most efficient and
effective data-driven online marketing solutions. We drive business to
our clients by maximizing a full range of opportunities including
Pay-Per-Click, SEO, Social Media Advertising, Comparison Shopping
Management, Display Advertising and Multichannel Attribution
Management Services. RKG was founded in 2003 and works with
organizations ranging in size from young startups to established
Fortune 500 companies in sectors including retail, travel and finance.

For more information about YAPC sponsors, please visit:
http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/our-sponsors.html

From admin at yapcna.org  Wed Mar 13 20:37:39 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:37:39 -0400
Subject: Thanks to The Game Crafter, Gold sponsor of YAPC::NA 2013. :)
Message-ID: <CALC=KULUO-yVoV9PacK=PuyRhKf-f6Qe1RAc0twjCMB3uj4oxA@mail.gmail.com>

We?re pleased to announce another Gold sponsor:

The Game Crafter is a web-to-print service that creates board games
and cards games on demand. It is a modern Perl application with a
fully accessible API that has produced over 10,000 games.

The Game Crafter has agreed to produce all the printed materials for
YAPC::NA 2013.

For more information about YAPC sponsors, please visit:
http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/our-sponsors.html

From admin at yapcna.org  Fri Mar 15 23:22:08 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 01:22:08 -0500
Subject: YAPC::NA Austin - Call for speakers extended to end of month
Message-ID: <CALC=KUKwEuq=Gh=5TRjaqqzp+BQx5DqnaE2j3Y48YzoBfGxzvQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://blog.yapcna.org/post/45481099843/yapc-na-austin-call-for-speakers-extended-to-end-of

Today was supposed to be the cut off for submitting talks for YAPC::NA
in Austin. Unfortunately, it snuck up on all of us, including the
YAPC::NA staff.  I apologize that we did not give more warnings of the
deadline. To make up for our oversight, we?re moving the deadline to
the end of this month.

YAPC loves to see new speakers. If you were considering a talk, but
just haven?t gotten the right words down on paper to describe it,
submit your talk anyway. If you?ve never spoken at YAPC and you?re
nervous about the topic you want to do, say so in the comments section
(only the organizers will see this) and we?ll try to get you the help
you need to get it polished. This could include getting you with
someone to help review your slides, or even finding someone who can
help you with a talk walk through.

You can submit your talks at: http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/newtalk

From admin at yapcna.org  Sun Mar 17 20:02:12 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 22:02:12 -0500
Subject: Tell your friends: Zero to Perl, 2 Day Course
Message-ID: <CALC=KU+4YzyufOjr31Z_ydQjjddS7C09vxf0o1y8QimYJodNmA@mail.gmail.com>

http://blog.yapcna.org/post/45645443771/tell-your-friends-zero-to-perl-2-day-course

Saturday, June 1st & Sunday, June 2nd

Infinity Interactive is proud to offer a two day ?Zero To Perl?
training session at YAPC::NA 2013, led by John ?genehack? Anderson.

John Anderson has been a Perl user for over 15 years, and teaching
Perl at The Johns Hopkins University for 10 years. His ?Zero To Perl?
course is designed to introduce programmers of any experience level to
Perl 5 programming, and non-programmers are welcomed! This two-day
course will give you the basic skills you?ll need to program in Perl
for a variety of tasks; Web development, text processing,
bioinformatics, database manipulation, systems administration, devops,
and more.

The course will cover basic Perl syntax, including variables and data
structures, flow control, functions, reading and writing files, and
regular expressions. More advanced topics like object-oriented
programming and Perl module development will be explored on the second
day. Instruction will be interspersed with hands-on sessions where
you?ll put into practice the concepts that you have just learned.
Instructors will be available to give each student direct assistance
as needed.

After completing this course, you?ll be ready to start writing your
own Perl programs and you?ll be perfectly positioned to enjoy the rest
of YAPC::NA, even if this is your first exposure to Perl. We ask you
to come prepared with a laptop that ideally includes Perl and
programmer?s text editor (Vim, Emacs, Sublime Text, Notepad 2, etc).
We?ll have code samples and course materials available for you on
site!

From admin at yapcna.org  Mon Mar 18 19:58:58 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 22:58:58 -0400
Subject: Wanna Hack at YAPC?
Message-ID: <CALC=KU+WW8TPb2-8jiLAbjhP8yt-ngLrScEXLtFKFyomkDXi=A@mail.gmail.com>

You asked for it so we?re delivering. We?ve allocated
space at the Thompson Conference Center both 2 days
before and after the conference for hackathon activities.

For a picture, checkout the blog post:
http://blog.yapcna.org/post/45398554131/wanna-hack-at-yapc

If you plan to attend one of the existing hack-a-thons,
please add your name to the following wiki page so
everyone knows who?s going to be there when:
http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/wiki?node=Hackathons

YAPC::NA 2013 Team

From admin at yapcna.org  Mon Mar 18 22:50:22 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 00:50:22 -0500
Subject: Welcome Silver Sponsor Grant Street Group!
Message-ID: <CALC=KUKoExo6KurmffwsV6uJL+k7yPVTtg2Pn1gZO+uGyP5CRA@mail.gmail.com>

http://blog.yapcna.org/post/45739261472/welcome-silver-sponsor-grant-street-group

We?re pleased to announce another Silver sponsor:

Grant Street Group is a Software as a Service pioneer. In 1997, our
company hosted the world?s first online bond auction for the City of
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Since that first auction, over 3,800 clients
have used our software to process financial transactions exceeding $12
trillion.

Today, Grant Street Group is a growing company providing Software as a
Service in fields such as electronic payments, auctions, tax
collection, andautomated testing. Our customers include banks,
financial companies, and state and local governments.

Are you a Perl expert? Do you prefer programming at home instead of
getting interrupted at the office?

Do you want to tackle challenging software engineering problems in a
well established and fast growing company?

Do you want to work with talented and smart developers? Build elegant
and scalable solutions for large applications? Meet the challenges of
deadlines while still delighting customers? Then you?d enjoy working
at Grant Street Group and we?d like to hear from you.

For more information about YAPC sponsors, please
visit:http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/our-sponsors.html

From admin at yapcna.org  Tue Mar 19 22:16:04 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 00:16:04 -0500
Subject: YAPC Training: Test Automation Using Perl - 2 Day Course
Message-ID: <CALC=KULrQvdpPWcnZhNuLHUW8QnkPqxNNyddj9A7crg0ZXmctA@mail.gmail.com>

http://blog.yapcna.org/post/45817765984/yapc-training-test-automation-using-perl-2-day

Come early for the conference and get in depth training on Test Automation

Saturday, June 1st & Sunday, June 2nd, Gabor Szabo will teach Test
Automation using Perl. This class will include both lectures and
hands-on exercises. While this course assumes you are familiar with
Perl, it?s okay to have little or no experience in writing tests in
Perl.

In the first 3/4 of the course you?ll be learning about the testing
framework available in Perl (TAP and the Test::* modules). In last 1/4
we are going to learn about various tools to interact with external
system (e.g. Databases, Web applications, Networking devices, CLI).

After the course the participants will be able to write test for their
applications. They will be able to setup a simple smoke testing
environment to run regression tests, collect the results, and create
nice reports.

We?ll address unit, integration, system and even acceptance testing
with both white- and black-box testing in mind.

The planned 4 parts of the training. (There might be some changes, but
more or less this is how the parts will work out.)

* Introduction to testing, why, when, who and how ?
* Understanding the basic tasks of the QA engineer
* Introduction to TAP - the Test Anything Protocol
* Testing tools in Perl for testing Perl Modules (Test::Simple, Test::More)
* Common reporting framework (Test::Harness)
* Extending the testing framework (Test::Builder)
* Other testing modules including Test::Most, Test::Deep
* More from Test::* (e.g. Test::Warn, Test::Exception)
* Setting up continuous integration (smoke testing)
* Report integration with Smolder
* Command Line Interface (CLI) applications
* Testing network devices
* Testing Web application
* Examples for database testing
* If time permits also Testing file-systems
* and Microsoft Windows GUI applications

Participants are expected to bring their own computer to do the
exercises. Sharing one computer by up to 2 students is acceptable and
even encouraged.

From admin at yapcna.org  Fri Mar 22 11:56:04 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 13:56:04 -0500
Subject: YAPC Training - Git for Ages 4 and Up
Message-ID: <CALC=KU+Z7+5YkhDukmTvcVK1mQvUr2_hcDsi26kN69TRV3Ehrw@mail.gmail.com>

http://blog.yapcna.org/post/46005344459/yapc-training-git-for-ages-4-and-up

Sunday, June 2nd or Thursday, June 6th

http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/training.html#git1

This is a full day class is taught by Michael Schwern. He simplifies
his teaching into easy to understand instructions of Git.

Git is hard, the interface is not the best, it?s not your fault if you
don?t get it. The Git guts are elegant, and it is better understood
from the inside out. Rather than learning the dozens of poorly named
and highly overloaded commands, it is simpler to learn the four or
five basic actions a Git repository can do, and how the commands
relate.

A Git repository is best understood visually. The class will teach how
to visualize the state of the repository, how commands change it, and
what you want the repository to look like all using children?s toys to
build a remarkably accurate presentation of the internals. Then you
can figure what commands you need to run to get from where you are to
where you want to be.

Once the basic repository internals are understood, previously
complicated and frustrating concepts like branches, remotes and rebase
become? it would be too far to say simple, but understandable and
eventually comfortable.

The full day class includes small group exercises. Your group will be
given situations to work through, list the commands they would run,
and draw the repository as it changes. Once you?ve have done it
visually, you?ll do it again on a computer.

The class deliberately avoids detail in favor of conceptual
understanding. Rather than try to teach you everything, we teach how
to think about everything. There are excellent resources for learning
the detail, and after this class you?ll understand them better.

Specifically, the class covers:

A flexible workflow, what sequence of commands should you run and why?
Adapting the workflow to these common variants?
Local vs remote work
Merging vs rebasing
Forking vs shared repositories
The staging area
The commit ID
Stashing
Branching and merging
Tagging
Remotes
Rebasing
Commands we will cover are:

Initialization: init, clone
Isolation: branch, checkout
Work: add, rm, commit
Status: diff, log, status
Sharing: merge
Remotes: push, pull, remote
Fixing: rebase, reset, reflog
Misc: stash, tag
Misc

Pre and during class Google Moderator questions.
Takeaways
Collective note taking.
Git workflow cheat sheets.
Git command flash cards.
We know you?re coming to conference ready to learn, so Git it!

From admin at yapcna.org  Fri Mar 22 12:02:54 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:02:54 -0500
Subject: Call for Speakers Deadline is April 1
Message-ID: <CALC=KULXvauYL0uWtkZJNOy9fQ7wmfgGO_8iAynBmfiSS_r8gw@mail.gmail.com>

http://blog.yapcna.org/post/46005864584/yapc-call-for-speakers-deadline-is-april-1

This is just a reminder that the call for speakers deadline for YAPC
Austin 2013 is the day after the end of this month (Easter Monday). If
you haven?t already submitted your talk, you can do so at:
http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/newtalk

From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu  Fri Mar 22 16:48:52 2013
From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:48:52 -0700
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
Message-ID: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all --

Apologies if this is already the case, or has been discussed already.  But
given what happened at pycon in the last week or so, I think we should also
post our code of conduct on github such that we can all fork, edit, and
submit suggested edits as pull requests.  (details to be hammered out, yes,
but the same basic workflow as any other pull-req)

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/03/pycon-github/

I know I was reading our code of conduct yesterday, and thinking how I'd
like to see some language in there talking about not just gender, sexual
orientation and ethnicity (among others), but also about gender identity,
gender expression, and national origin...  so I'd be first in there with a
pull request :)

Thoughts?  What would it take to do this?

Thanks-
                                        -Chris

-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris scientia
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From stevan.little at iinteractive.com  Fri Mar 22 16:59:26 2013
From: stevan.little at iinteractive.com (Stevan Little)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:59:26 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A44905CC-71E1-43BC-A3A4-CE75E64493BA@iinteractive.com>

I second this idea, by letting the community edit the CoC we can (potentially) get greater community buy in.

- Stevan



On Mar 22, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Chris Weyl <cweyl at alumni.drew.edu> wrote:

> Hey all --
> 
> Apologies if this is already the case, or has been discussed already.  But given what happened at pycon in the last week or so, I think we should also post our code of conduct on github such that we can all fork, edit, and submit suggested edits as pull requests.  (details to be hammered out, yes, but the same basic workflow as any other pull-req)
> 
> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/03/pycon-github/
> 
> I know I was reading our code of conduct yesterday, and thinking how I'd like to see some language in there talking about not just gender, sexual orientation and ethnicity (among others), but also about gender identity, gender expression, and national origin...  so I'd be first in there with a pull request :)
> 
> Thoughts?  What would it take to do this?
> 
> Thanks-
>                                         -Chris
> 
> -- 
> Chris Weyl
> Ex astris scientia
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc


From rob.kinyon at gmail.com  Fri Mar 22 17:05:04 2013
From: rob.kinyon at gmail.com (Rob Kinyon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 20:05:04 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>

There is already a yapc account on github (I just tried to register it and
failed) that has one of rblackwe's repositories starred.

So, I went ahead and created the yapc-na organization. Stevan and Perigrin
and I are the initial owners and I will gladly bow out when asked.

I've also created https://github.com/YAPC-NA/code-conduct that anyone can
fork and provide a markdown or POD of the code of conduct. I will happily
accept pull requests to get this baby started.

Rob


On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Chris Weyl <cweyl at alumni.drew.edu> wrote:

> Hey all --
>
> Apologies if this is already the case, or has been discussed already.  But
> given what happened at pycon in the last week or so, I think we should also
> post our code of conduct on github such that we can all fork, edit, and
> submit suggested edits as pull requests.  (details to be hammered out, yes,
> but the same basic workflow as any other pull-req)
>
> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/03/pycon-github/
>
> I know I was reading our code of conduct yesterday, and thinking how I'd
> like to see some language in there talking about not just gender, sexual
> orientation and ethnicity (among others), but also about gender identity,
> gender expression, and national origin...  so I'd be first in there with a
> pull request :)
>
> Thoughts?  What would it take to do this?
>
> Thanks-
>                                         -Chris
>
> --
> Chris Weyl
> Ex astris scientia
>
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
>



-- 
Thanks,
Rob Kinyon
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From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu  Fri Mar 22 17:09:47 2013
From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:09:47 -0700
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome!  Thanks Rob :)

I _think_ we can just pull the code listed on the yapc site as a starting
point, right?  (I mean, there's nothing More Official out there we should
use, yes?)

                           -Chris


On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Rob Kinyon <rob.kinyon at gmail.com> wrote:

> There is already a yapc account on github (I just tried to register it and
> failed) that has one of rblackwe's repositories starred.
>
> So, I went ahead and created the yapc-na organization. Stevan and Perigrin
> and I are the initial owners and I will gladly bow out when asked.
>
> I've also created https://github.com/YAPC-NA/code-conduct that anyone can
> fork and provide a markdown or POD of the code of conduct. I will happily
> accept pull requests to get this baby started.
>
> Rob
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Chris Weyl <cweyl at alumni.drew.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hey all --
>>
>> Apologies if this is already the case, or has been discussed already.
>> But given what happened at pycon in the last week or so, I think we should
>> also post our code of conduct on github such that we can all fork, edit,
>> and submit suggested edits as pull requests.  (details to be hammered out,
>> yes, but the same basic workflow as any other pull-req)
>>
>> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/03/pycon-github/
>>
>> I know I was reading our code of conduct yesterday, and thinking how I'd
>> like to see some language in there talking about not just gender, sexual
>> orientation and ethnicity (among others), but also about gender identity,
>> gender expression, and national origin...  so I'd be first in there with a
>> pull request :)
>>
>> Thoughts?  What would it take to do this?
>>
>> Thanks-
>>                                         -Chris
>>
>> --
>> Chris Weyl
>> Ex astris scientia
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> yapc mailing list
>> yapc at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Rob Kinyon
>



-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris scientia
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From robert at robertblackwell.com  Fri Mar 22 17:17:50 2013
From: robert at robertblackwell.com (Robert Blackwell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 20:17:50 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>

I think this is a great idea to have the community work on the Code of
Conduct but do note that TPF has/had a lawyer helping to write a Code
of Conduct. Can someone from TPF chime to say if we can run a new
community edited Code of Conduct by the lawyers and what would the
timeframe be?  There already is a CoC for YAPC::NA,
http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/code-of-conduct.html.

Robert

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Chris Weyl <cweyl at alumni.drew.edu> wrote:
> Awesome!  Thanks Rob :)
>
> I _think_ we can just pull the code listed on the yapc site as a starting
> point, right?  (I mean, there's nothing More Official out there we should
> use, yes?)
>
>                            -Chris
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Rob Kinyon <rob.kinyon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> There is already a yapc account on github (I just tried to register it and
>> failed) that has one of rblackwe's repositories starred.
>>
>> So, I went ahead and created the yapc-na organization. Stevan and Perigrin
>> and I are the initial owners and I will gladly bow out when asked.
>>
>> I've also created https://github.com/YAPC-NA/code-conduct that anyone can
>> fork and provide a markdown or POD of the code of conduct. I will happily
>> accept pull requests to get this baby started.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Chris Weyl <cweyl at alumni.drew.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all --
>>>
>>> Apologies if this is already the case, or has been discussed already.
>>> But given what happened at pycon in the last week or so, I think we should
>>> also post our code of conduct on github such that we can all fork, edit, and
>>> submit suggested edits as pull requests.  (details to be hammered out, yes,
>>> but the same basic workflow as any other pull-req)
>>>
>>> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/03/pycon-github/
>>>
>>> I know I was reading our code of conduct yesterday, and thinking how I'd
>>> like to see some language in there talking about not just gender, sexual
>>> orientation and ethnicity (among others), but also about gender identity,
>>> gender expression, and national origin...  so I'd be first in there with a
>>> pull request :)
>>>
>>> Thoughts?  What would it take to do this?
>>>
>>> Thanks-
>>>                                         -Chris
>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Weyl
>>> Ex astris scientia
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> yapc mailing list
>>> yapc at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>> Rob Kinyon
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Weyl
> Ex astris scientia
>
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc

From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu  Fri Mar 22 17:20:20 2013
From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:20:20 -0700
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <08E7C436-3815-415A-BA41-FDFF3ADE9104@dwscoalition.org>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A44905CC-71E1-43BC-A3A4-CE75E64493BA@iinteractive.com>
	<08E7C436-3815-415A-BA41-FDFF3ADE9104@dwscoalition.org>
Message-ID: <CABSyATE35zcWTr3+SYBG-ooyXrw-bG5k7=rgtq-9VMPqLHuWaQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Denise Paolucci <denise at dwscoalition.org>wrote:

> So -- while in general I'm for community participation and community
> buy-in, I think there needs to be a single person with the ability to say
> 'yes' or 'no' to proposed edits, and that edits should be scrutinized with
> the single question of: does this make the event more welcoming or not?
>

Hopefully interested parties will watch the pull-req queue, and we can have
some form of consensus-based approach to adopting changes.  In general,
we're all adults here; this sort of document can go a long way to helping
to clearly articulate what is not acceptable behaviour.

I'm willing to say "let's go with it" and see what works and what doesn't,
from a process perspective.  We're hardly a bunch to keep quiet when we see
something that looks counterproductive or otherwise wonky :)

                                       -Chris

-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris scientia
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From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu  Fri Mar 22 17:34:19 2013
From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:34:19 -0700
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABSyATEQt0ujd_UJPRErS8W1L4yij8BEtJhmW9Tpyg4Ysf8AMg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Robert Blackwell <
robert at robertblackwell.com> wrote:

> I think this is a great idea to have the community work on the Code of
> Conduct but do note that TPF has/had a lawyer helping to write a Code
> of Conduct. Can someone from TPF chime to say if we can run a new
> community edited Code of Conduct by the lawyers and what would the
> timeframe be?  There already is a CoC for YAPC::NA,
> http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/code-of-conduct.html.
>

Right...  I'm sure the TPF wouldn't mind keeping an eye on it (he said,
possibly incurring the wrath of TPF), but YAPC is and always has been such
a community-driven conference that it would seem to be completely out of
character for us to have the opportunity to craft or improve our code of
conduct and _not_ do it.  This is _our_ conference, right?

If this is to have serious community buy-in (as Stevan said earlier) and be
a real, core part of how we run our YAPCs, at any rate, then we need to
take part in its form and substance :)  This code isn't just boilerplate or
another click-to-agree-don't-read-and-forgetit sorta deal, this is the
policy that I wish we had no need for whatsoever -- and yet is imperative
for setting the conference tone and levelsetting everyone's expectations.

                                          -Chris
-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris scientia
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From afbach at gmail.com  Fri Mar 22 17:24:27 2013
From: afbach at gmail.com (Andy Bach)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:24:27 -0500
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <475C613C-D653-4C49-AD03-FE03B31881DD@gmail.com>

I hadn't heard what happened but
https://peak5390.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/what-really-happened-at-pycon-2013/

Offers some cool ideas and the CoC thing was just a small undetailed div. 

Raspberry Pi for everybody?!!?

  a

Andy Bach
(608) 658-1890
Not at my desk

On Mar 22, 2013, at 6:48 PM, Chris Weyl <cweyl at alumni.drew.edu> wrote:

> Apologies if this is already the case, or has been discussed already.  But given what happened at pycon in the last week or so, I
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From rob.kinyon at gmail.com  Fri Mar 22 17:35:55 2013
From: rob.kinyon at gmail.com (Rob Kinyon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 20:35:55 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E08275D2-3B7D-44DD-8161-D858C6FD1CBB@gmail.com>

Yes, any official amendments would have to go past lawyers. But, I suspect a few things will happen here:
1. The YAPC-NA organization on github will serve as the transmission medium for all YAPC-related documents. I remember having issues with this in the handover between Pittsburgh and columbus, even though we all knew each other IRL. 
2. The official document(s) can also have a history of discussion that can inform how to interpret and apply it. 
3. If we as a community feel that an amendment is needed, we can work out the spirit of the thing in a branch and submit the diff to the lawyers via TPF as a code review.

There is nothing to lose by putting the docs in the one place we KNOW everyone at a YAPC will have an account on and know how to use and who has a vested interest in making sure things remain up (unlike Google). 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2013, at 20:17, Robert Blackwell <robert at robertblackwell.com> wrote:

> I think this is a great idea to have the community work on the Code of
> Conduct but do note that TPF has/had a lawyer helping to write a Code
> of Conduct. Can someone from TPF chime to say if we can run a new
> community edited Code of Conduct by the lawyers and what would the
> timeframe be?  There already is a CoC for YAPC::NA,
> http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/code-of-conduct.html.
> 
> Robert
> 
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Chris Weyl <cweyl at alumni.drew.edu> wrote:
>> Awesome!  Thanks Rob :)
>> 
>> I _think_ we can just pull the code listed on the yapc site as a starting
>> point, right?  (I mean, there's nothing More Official out there we should
>> use, yes?)
>> 
>>                           -Chris
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Rob Kinyon <rob.kinyon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> There is already a yapc account on github (I just tried to register it and
>>> failed) that has one of rblackwe's repositories starred.
>>> 
>>> So, I went ahead and created the yapc-na organization. Stevan and Perigrin
>>> and I are the initial owners and I will gladly bow out when asked.
>>> 
>>> I've also created https://github.com/YAPC-NA/code-conduct that anyone can
>>> fork and provide a markdown or POD of the code of conduct. I will happily
>>> accept pull requests to get this baby started.
>>> 
>>> Rob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Chris Weyl <cweyl at alumni.drew.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hey all --
>>>> 
>>>> Apologies if this is already the case, or has been discussed already.
>>>> But given what happened at pycon in the last week or so, I think we should
>>>> also post our code of conduct on github such that we can all fork, edit, and
>>>> submit suggested edits as pull requests.  (details to be hammered out, yes,
>>>> but the same basic workflow as any other pull-req)
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/03/pycon-github/
>>>> 
>>>> I know I was reading our code of conduct yesterday, and thinking how I'd
>>>> like to see some language in there talking about not just gender, sexual
>>>> orientation and ethnicity (among others), but also about gender identity,
>>>> gender expression, and national origin...  so I'd be first in there with a
>>>> pull request :)
>>>> 
>>>> Thoughts?  What would it take to do this?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks-
>>>>                                        -Chris
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Weyl
>>>> Ex astris scientia
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> yapc mailing list
>>>> yapc at pm.org
>>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Thanks,
>>> Rob Kinyon
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Chris Weyl
>> Ex astris scientia
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> yapc mailing list
>> yapc at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc

From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu  Fri Mar 22 17:44:46 2013
From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:44:46 -0700
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <475C613C-D653-4C49-AD03-FE03B31881DD@gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<475C613C-D653-4C49-AD03-FE03B31881DD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABSyATGcDYcRK6yJt0bwV4dxaEuvMw1+jcJVXid9DFkf06qTbg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Andy Bach <afbach at gmail.com> wrote:

> the CoC thing was just a small undetailed div


Not from the people I've been talking to today.  And even if it were --
this is all second or third-hand to me, after all -- I'd rather get ahead
of it than behind, and a well-written and accepted policy is the first step.

On the other hand, I want a Raspberry Pi!  No, really. :)

                               -Chris

-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris scientia
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From karen at martian.org  Fri Mar 22 18:28:04 2013
From: karen at martian.org (Karen Pauley)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:28:04 +0900
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 March 2013 09:17, Robert Blackwell <robert at robertblackwell.com> wrote:
> I think this is a great idea to have the community work on the Code of
> Conduct but do note that TPF has/had a lawyer helping to write a Code
> of Conduct. Can someone from TPF chime to say if we can run a new
> community edited Code of Conduct by the lawyers and what would the
> timeframe be?  There already is a CoC for YAPC::NA,
> http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/code-of-conduct.html.

When you sign-up for YAPC this year you check a box saying you agree
to that specific code of conduct - the details of which are listed
there.
I don't believe that we are going to be able to change that document
before YAPC::NA as we not only would we have to run it past lawyers we
would have to get every attendee who has agreed to the current one to
agree to the new document.  And whilst I am sure someone could come up
with a technology solution for that we will run into problems with
people having agreed to different versions of the code.  (Could we
really turn people away who have agreed to the current code of conduct
and have already paid and registered but who didn't happen to like the
language in the new one?)

Also it's so quick to write a phrase like - run it past lawyers - but
in reality it takes a long time.  I started to work on the current
code of conduct last August and I don't think it was ready to go on
the website until around January this year.

Going forward from this year's YAPC::NA I do believe that this
document needs to evolve to reflect the ethos of the community.  I'd
be happy to have interested parties work on improving the code -
though we will have to let our lawyer look at any changes for a code
we were planning on using at YAPC::NA.

All the best,

Karen

From rob.kinyon at gmail.com  Fri Mar 22 18:36:33 2013
From: rob.kinyon at gmail.com (Rob Kinyon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 21:36:33 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>

Given what Karen has said, the master branch will be what is currently the
CoC for 2013. Chris has already submitted a pull request and I'll merge it
as soon as he removes the .html file. Once that's merged, I'll tag it with
2013. Any discussion for amendments can go in a 2014_proposed branch. The
TPF will determine a cut-off date for submission to lawyers for review for
the CoC for 2014 and we'll just adhere to that.

I hope that the rest of the documents can be pushed into other repositories
under the YAPC-NA organization. Once other repositories are created, I
would ask for all the chairpersons of prior YAPCs submit their documents
for inclusion so that we can create a historical repository. Things like
planning documents, various legal contracts, etc. Maybe even talks and the
like can go here.


On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 9:28 PM, Karen Pauley <karen at martian.org> wrote:

> On 23 March 2013 09:17, Robert Blackwell <robert at robertblackwell.com>
> wrote:
> > I think this is a great idea to have the community work on the Code of
> > Conduct but do note that TPF has/had a lawyer helping to write a Code
> > of Conduct. Can someone from TPF chime to say if we can run a new
> > community edited Code of Conduct by the lawyers and what would the
> > timeframe be?  There already is a CoC for YAPC::NA,
> > http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/code-of-conduct.html.
>
> When you sign-up for YAPC this year you check a box saying you agree
> to that specific code of conduct - the details of which are listed
> there.
> I don't believe that we are going to be able to change that document
> before YAPC::NA as we not only would we have to run it past lawyers we
> would have to get every attendee who has agreed to the current one to
> agree to the new document.  And whilst I am sure someone could come up
> with a technology solution for that we will run into problems with
> people having agreed to different versions of the code.  (Could we
> really turn people away who have agreed to the current code of conduct
> and have already paid and registered but who didn't happen to like the
> language in the new one?)
>
> Also it's so quick to write a phrase like - run it past lawyers - but
> in reality it takes a long time.  I started to work on the current
> code of conduct last August and I don't think it was ready to go on
> the website until around January this year.
>
> Going forward from this year's YAPC::NA I do believe that this
> document needs to evolve to reflect the ethos of the community.  I'd
> be happy to have interested parties work on improving the code -
> though we will have to let our lawyer look at any changes for a code
> we were planning on using at YAPC::NA.
>
> All the best,
>
> Karen
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
>



-- 
Thanks,
Rob Kinyon
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From chris at prather.org  Fri Mar 22 22:00:22 2013
From: chris at prather.org (Chris Prather)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 01:00:22 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEFJ168f4QEnu9TrdDJD2Ri73==u6Fwy+XGNm4+2fyHTrSOGsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Friday, March 22, 2013, Rob Kinyon wrote:

> Once other repositories are created, I would ask for all the chairpersons
> of prior YAPCs submit their documents for inclusion so that we can create a
> historical repository.
>



https://github.com/perigrin/YAPC-NA-2011/blob/master/act/actdocs/static/conduct.html

-Chris
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From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu  Fri Mar 22 22:16:56 2013
From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 22:16:56 -0700
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Rob Kinyon <rob.kinyon at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'll merge it as soon as he removes the .html file


Done.  That's what I get by rushing things to get home for dinner :)

On a slightly different note, I hope it's clear that I'm pushing this not
because I feel personally uncomfortable, threatened, or harassed; or that
anything like that will happen to me in Austin this year.  I'm pushing this
because I see it as a critical part of welcoming and building diversity --
something schwern's most excellent keynote last year motivated me to take
some personal responsibility for.  This policy isn't just another document,
it's part of the welcome mat: how we create, honour and enforce it will say
a lot about who and what we are.

Ok.  Last serious email of the week :)

                              -Chris

-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris scientia
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From denise at dwscoalition.org  Fri Mar 22 22:30:15 2013
From: denise at dwscoalition.org (Denise Paolucci)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 01:30:15 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>

As someone who *has* been harassed at conferences before -- though not YAPC, which I've found delightful -- it's always nice to hear efforts to make a particular space more welcoming come from people who are making those efforts because it's the right thing to do. :)

I'll also drop in a link here to the Dreamwidth Diversity Statement, which contains the most exhaustive list of axes-of-diversity we (and our users) have been able to think of in four years or so:

   http://www.dreamwidth.org/legal/diversity

Likely not all applicable, but it's CC-BY-SA, so feel free to borrow liberally!

--D


On Mar 23, 2013, at 1:16 AM, Chris Weyl wrote:

> 
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Rob Kinyon <rob.kinyon at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll merge it as soon as he removes the .html file
> 
> Done.  That's what I get by rushing things to get home for dinner :)
> 
> On a slightly different note, I hope it's clear that I'm pushing this not because I feel personally uncomfortable, threatened, or harassed; or that anything like that will happen to me in Austin this year.  I'm pushing this because I see it as a critical part of welcoming and building diversity -- something schwern's most excellent keynote last year motivated me to take some personal responsibility for.  This policy isn't just another document, it's part of the welcome mat: how we create, honour and enforce it will say a lot about who and what we are.
> 
> Ok.  Last serious email of the week :)
> 
>                               -Chris
> 
> -- 
> Chris Weyl
> Ex astris scientia
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc

-- 
Denise Paolucci
denise at dwscoalition.org
Dreamwidth Studios: Open Source, open expression, open operations. Join us: www.dreamwidth.org


From schwern at pobox.com  Fri Mar 22 22:54:23 2013
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G. Schwern)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 22:54:23 -0700
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <514D438F.6000305@pobox.com>

This is a great idea!

Community buy in is really important, we can lay down the law as a
starting point but its very important that people understand the code of
conduct is for them.

I'd like to use the YAPC-NA/code-conduct wiki to write down a lot of the
good points made in this thread.  Things like the procedure to review
and adopt a new CoC.  What Karen was saying about how do we actually
"run it by a lawyer" and keeping our promises for an event.  Other
resources to pull from.  This could go on the YAPC wiki, but I'd rather
keep the documents together and ensure they persist from year to year

I'd also like to add additional documents related to the CoC to this
repository.  For example, we need attendee and staff procedures and
guidelines.  What do we do and what do attendees do?  AFAIK we're
missing those very important procedures.  They should be public as well,
so people better understand what the CoC is about, what we'll do about
harassment, that we have many options other than "throw people out", and
that reporters will be made safe.

Here's Pycon's examples...
https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/harassment-incidents/
https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/harassment-incidents-staff/

They're derived from Geek Feminism / Ada Initiative docs...
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Responding_to_reports

So, concrete actions...

* I'd like to be able to process pull requests and issues, so I request
pull access to the code-conduct repository.

* I'd like to use the wiki, but I believe I needs to be initialized by a
repository admin.

Which I suppose I can make happen by posting Github issues.

From schwern at pobox.com  Fri Mar 22 23:14:23 2013
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G. Schwern)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 23:14:23 -0700
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
Message-ID: <514D483F.9070607@pobox.com>

On 3/22/13 10:30 PM, Denise Paolucci wrote:
> As someone who *has* been harassed at conferences
> before -- though not YAPC, which I've found delightful --
> it's always nice to hear efforts to make a particular
> space more welcoming come from people who are making
> those efforts because it's the right thing to do. :)

I'm very glad to hear you had a good time and I'm delighted to see you
on the YAPC planning list. :)


> I'll also drop in a link here to the Dreamwidth Diversity
> Statement, which contains the most exhaustive list of
> axes-of-diversity we (and our users) have been able to

Axes Of Diversity is my new metal band.


> think of in four years or so:
> 
>    http://www.dreamwidth.org/legal/diversity
> 
> Likely not all applicable, but it's CC-BY-SA, so feel
> free to borrow liberally!

Your list is excellent and I will definitely keep a copy for reference.

I've been thinking about this a lot.  I feel it expresses, in long hand,
a community value I've been trying to express succinctly...

  The only thing you should need at YAPC is an interest in Perl.

Interested in Perl?  You are welcome here.

It is our responsibility to make that as true as possible, and more true
every year.

YAPC was founded to make that true on one axis: money.  $1000 + cross
country airfare + hotels was a high barrier to attending The Perl
Conference.  Now its $100 + airfare + dorms.  They've done a great job!

There are other barriers to people attending and enjoying YAPC.  We
either tackle them, or we don't impede others who want to tackle them.

Interested in Perl?  You are welcome here... and we'll help figure out
the rest.

With the work we're doing on the CoC I hope this year I can say another
thing to attendees.

  If you have a problem at YAPC, you don't have to deal with it alone.

Don't want to talk to someone but they won't leave you alone?  We can
help you with that.  Feeling uncomfortable?  We can help you with that.
 Someone evangelizing at you a bit too hard and won't shut up?  We can
help you with that.  People having a really loud argument in a public
place and its bothering you? (I've been that guy)  We can help with that.

There's still work to be done before we can truly say that, the staff
procedures are a big part of that.  Hopefully Melissa will grab the
torch of volunteer and staff CoC training later.  But we're on our way
for this year. :)

From rob.kinyon at gmail.com  Sat Mar 23 07:17:19 2013
From: rob.kinyon at gmail.com (Rob Kinyon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:17:19 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <514D438F.6000305@pobox.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<514D438F.6000305@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <CADbe1CXaLoj=jCUybVPSj+xUreps9XkesZJcH4XnPu5VdDMXcw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 1:54 AM, Michael G. Schwern <schwern at pobox.com>wrote:

> I'd like to use the YAPC-NA/code-conduct wiki to write down a lot of the
> good points made in this thread.  Things like the procedure to review
> and adopt a new CoC.  What Karen was saying about how do we actually
> "run it by a lawyer" and keeping our promises for an event.  Other
> resources to pull from.  This could go on the YAPC wiki, but I'd rather
> keep the documents together and ensure they persist from year to year
>
> I'd also like to add additional documents related to the CoC to this
> repository.  For example, we need attendee and staff procedures and
> guidelines.  What do we do and what do attendees do?  AFAIK we're
> missing those very important procedures.  They should be public as well,
> so people better understand what the CoC is about, what we'll do about
> harassment, that we have many options other than "throw people out", and
> that reporters will be made safe.
>

Yes, this is *exactly* what I was thinking of. So, please do this.


> So, concrete actions...
>
> * I'd like to be able to process pull requests and issues, so I request
> pull access to the code-conduct repository.
>
You're now an owner of the YAPC-NA organization. Go forth and do awesome
things.

* I'd like to use the wiki, but I believe I needs to be initialized by a
> repository admin.
>
Physician, heal thyself! :)


> Which I suppose I can make happen by posting Github issues.
>
Or just asking me. :)
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From rob.kinyon at gmail.com  Sat Mar 23 07:18:26 2013
From: rob.kinyon at gmail.com (Rob Kinyon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:18:26 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CAEFJ168f4QEnu9TrdDJD2Ri73==u6Fwy+XGNm4+2fyHTrSOGsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEFJ168f4QEnu9TrdDJD2Ri73==u6Fwy+XGNm4+2fyHTrSOGsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADbe1CUo5uEyxeJvmUK3aJZ90BVTxbCtVe+gRbpdckPQHLffsA@mail.gmail.com>

Forked to https://github.com/YAPC-NA/YAPC-NA-2011

That way, everything is linked to from one place.


On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 1:00 AM, Chris Prather <chris at prather.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Friday, March 22, 2013, Rob Kinyon wrote:
>
>> Once other repositories are created, I would ask for all the chairpersons
>> of prior YAPCs submit their documents for inclusion so that we can create a
>> historical repository.
>>
>
>
>
> https://github.com/perigrin/YAPC-NA-2011/blob/master/act/actdocs/static/conduct.html
>
> -Chris
>



-- 
Thanks,
Rob Kinyon
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From robert at robertblackwell.com  Sat Mar 23 07:35:12 2013
From: robert at robertblackwell.com (Robert Blackwell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:35:12 -0400
Subject: Can we include the Act templates in the new YAPC-NA repo on github
Message-ID: <CAGrcjSS-LQvg+vCbvyjCZc34vx-FaMUMPZodDJvmnCYZsCL4wg@mail.gmail.com>

I am so excited to see the new YAPC-NA repo on Github,
https://github.com/YAPC-NA.

I would like to propose adding the Act templates to the repo.

To make this work best we will need to work out a workflow that works
with the current SVN set up that is used now.


Robert

From rob.kinyon at gmail.com  Sat Mar 23 07:56:54 2013
From: rob.kinyon at gmail.com (Rob Kinyon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:56:54 -0400
Subject: Can we include the Act templates in the new YAPC-NA repo on github
In-Reply-To: <CAGrcjSS-LQvg+vCbvyjCZc34vx-FaMUMPZodDJvmnCYZsCL4wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGrcjSS-LQvg+vCbvyjCZc34vx-FaMUMPZodDJvmnCYZsCL4wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADbe1CULHn-mQzd5Q_4TyWLwNV0oFwToa1DOkuPagyY4xR1zfA@mail.gmail.com>

I've added you as an owner to the organization. Go forth and do awesomeness.


On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Robert Blackwell <
robert at robertblackwell.com> wrote:

> I am so excited to see the new YAPC-NA repo on Github,
> https://github.com/YAPC-NA.
>
> I would like to propose adding the Act templates to the repo.
>
> To make this work best we will need to work out a workflow that works
> with the current SVN set up that is used now.
>
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
>



-- 
Thanks,
Rob Kinyon
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From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu  Sat Mar 23 09:51:13 2013
From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 09:51:13 -0700
Subject: Can we include the Act templates in the new YAPC-NA repo on github
In-Reply-To: <CAGrcjSS-LQvg+vCbvyjCZc34vx-FaMUMPZodDJvmnCYZsCL4wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGrcjSS-LQvg+vCbvyjCZc34vx-FaMUMPZodDJvmnCYZsCL4wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABSyATHaQ0DvgeTPYFJ4v=xiNjuZYHJ8Dp+kXKQ2ixD5p_EfRA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Robert Blackwell <
robert at robertblackwell.com> wrote:

> I am so excited to see the new YAPC-NA repo on Github,
> https://github.com/YAPC-NA.
>
> I would like to propose adding the Act templates to the repo.
>
> To make this work best we will need to work out a workflow that works
> with the current SVN set up that is used now.
>

May I suggest that we keep anything not related to the code of conduct, or
its attendant documents, discussions and the like, in a separate repository
under the YAPC-NA organization?  I think this is what you were saying, but
I'm not 100% sure :)

                     -Chris

-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris scientia
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From robert at robertblackwell.com  Sat Mar 23 09:57:05 2013
From: robert at robertblackwell.com (Robert Blackwell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:57:05 -0400
Subject: Can we include the Act templates in the new YAPC-NA repo on github
In-Reply-To: <CABSyATHaQ0DvgeTPYFJ4v=xiNjuZYHJ8Dp+kXKQ2ixD5p_EfRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGrcjSS-LQvg+vCbvyjCZc34vx-FaMUMPZodDJvmnCYZsCL4wg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATHaQ0DvgeTPYFJ4v=xiNjuZYHJ8Dp+kXKQ2ixD5p_EfRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0B92E6E2-7BBC-4FC5-8ABD-82B507B5E322@robertblackwell.com>

That was what I was suggesting but clarity++. 

On Mar 23, 2013, at 12:51 PM, Chris Weyl <cweyl at alumni.drew.edu> wrote:

> 
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Robert Blackwell <robert at robertblackwell.com> wrote:
>> I am so excited to see the new YAPC-NA repo on Github,
>> https://github.com/YAPC-NA.
>> 
>> I would like to propose adding the Act templates to the repo.
>> 
>> To make this work best we will need to work out a workflow that works
>> with the current SVN set up that is used now.
> 
> May I suggest that we keep anything not related to the code of conduct, or its attendant documents, discussions and the like, in a separate repository under the YAPC-NA organization?  I think this is what you were saying, but I'm not 100% sure :)
> 
>                      -Chris
> 
> -- 
> Chris Weyl
> Ex astris scientia
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From toddr at cpanel.net  Sun Mar 24 01:01:26 2013
From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 03:01:26 -0500
Subject: Can we include the Act templates in the new YAPC-NA repo on github
In-Reply-To: <CAGrcjSS-LQvg+vCbvyjCZc34vx-FaMUMPZodDJvmnCYZsCL4wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGrcjSS-LQvg+vCbvyjCZc34vx-FaMUMPZodDJvmnCYZsCL4wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3FB2981E-C1B7-433A-9D76-29E64321A277@cpanel.net>

Robert, I'm not convinced there's value in this. ACT uses svn still for having event custom files. As best I can tell, referencing the previous year doesn't buy us much. And even if I do want to do this, it's all on the same ACT server the 2013 one is on. 

Short version: This creates more work to keep it in sync with svn, which is where the authoritative copy of all previous years are stored. What is the value?

On Mar 23, 2013, at 9:35 AM, Robert Blackwell <robert at robertblackwell.com> wrote:

> I am so excited to see the new YAPC-NA repo on Github,
> https://github.com/YAPC-NA.
> 
> I would like to propose adding the Act templates to the repo.
> 
> To make this work best we will need to work out a workflow that works
> with the current SVN set up that is used now.
> 
> 
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc


From rob.kinyon at gmail.com  Sun Mar 24 10:48:44 2013
From: rob.kinyon at gmail.com (Rob Kinyon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:48:44 -0400
Subject: Can we include the Act templates in the new YAPC-NA repo on github
In-Reply-To: <3FB2981E-C1B7-433A-9D76-29E64321A277@cpanel.net>
References: <CAGrcjSS-LQvg+vCbvyjCZc34vx-FaMUMPZodDJvmnCYZsCL4wg@mail.gmail.com>
	<3FB2981E-C1B7-433A-9D76-29E64321A277@cpanel.net>
Message-ID: <738FCA4E-9312-4314-A51C-6EF59145B197@gmail.com>

The biggest value is community participation and reducing barriers to that participation. I helped run 2010 and I never had access to the ACT svn. If it had been on github, I could have helped in further ways. Github already has the wiki, the issue tracker, and is where all the current work on process improvement is happening.

I'm not saying ACT has to change its process. I'm saying that github allows greater participation, and that's a "Good Thing". Robert's point about integrating with ACT is well-taken. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2013, at 4:01, Todd Rinaldo <toddr at cpanel.net> wrote:

> Robert, I'm not convinced there's value in this. ACT uses svn still for having event custom files. As best I can tell, referencing the previous year doesn't buy us much. And even if I do want to do this, it's all on the same ACT server the 2013 one is on. 
> 
> Short version: This creates more work to keep it in sync with svn, which is where the authoritative copy of all previous years are stored. What is the value?
> 
> On Mar 23, 2013, at 9:35 AM, Robert Blackwell <robert at robertblackwell.com> wrote:
> 
>> I am so excited to see the new YAPC-NA repo on Github,
>> https://github.com/YAPC-NA.
>> 
>> I would like to propose adding the Act templates to the repo.
>> 
>> To make this work best we will need to work out a workflow that works
>> with the current SVN set up that is used now.
>> 
>> 
>> Robert
>> _______________________________________________
>> yapc mailing list
>> yapc at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc

From mst at shadowcat.co.uk  Sun Mar 24 13:51:14 2013
From: mst at shadowcat.co.uk (Matt S Trout)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 20:51:14 +0000
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
Message-ID: <20130324205113.GH6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 01:30:15AM -0400, Denise Paolucci wrote:
> As someone who *has* been harassed at conferences before -- though not YAPC, which I've found delightful -- it's always nice to hear efforts to make a particular space more welcoming come from people who are making those efforts because it's the right thing to do. :)
> 
> I'll also drop in a link here to the Dreamwidth Diversity Statement, which contains the most exhaustive list of axes-of-diversity we (and our users) have been able to think of in four years or so:
> 
>    http://www.dreamwidth.org/legal/diversity
> 
> Likely not all applicable, but it's CC-BY-SA, so feel free to borrow liberally!

http://shadow.cat/blog/matt-s-trout/on-not-being-a-problem/

probably has some ideas as well. Feel free to take from that as CC-BY-SA
or, honestly, under any reasonable license you can think of - I'll happily
add a note to any text you want confirming that as it gets committed.

-- 
Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems - Perl consulting with a commit bit and a clue

http://shadowcat.co.uk/blog/matt-s-trout/   http://twitter.com/shadowcat_mst/

Email me now on mst (at) shadowcat.co.uk and let's chat about how our Catalyst
commercial support, training and consultancy packages could help your team.

From mst at shadowcat.co.uk  Sun Mar 24 14:00:23 2013
From: mst at shadowcat.co.uk (Matt S Trout)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 21:00:23 +0000
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <514D483F.9070607@pobox.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
	<514D483F.9070607@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20130324210023.GI6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 11:14:23PM -0700, Michael G. Schwern wrote:
> With the work we're doing on the CoC I hope this year I can say another
> thing to attendees.
> 
>   If you have a problem at YAPC, you don't have to deal with it alone.

I'd like to raise a hand here and say "you could already have said that"
- certainly every ::NA I've attended had people working hard to make that
true, some in the organisation team, some from attendees applying JFDI to
looking after their community.

I think it's good to get this stuff formalised - but please try not to do
it in such a way as to minimise the efforts of all the community members
who've been standing up and making sure people don't face problems alone in
previous years, just by listening out for problems on the floor and doing our
best to either deal with them (where possible) or take them to the organisers
(where preferable).

Having a specific CoC as a way to get these values written down and to give
the organisers something to refer to is nice.

But it's very much a way to formalise and improve a desire for inclusivity
that is already strong in our community, and we need to say very clearly
that what we're doing here isn't creating something new, it's caulking the
leaks in something that's already there and then shouting that fact from
the rooftops.

-- 
Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems - Perl consulting with a commit bit and a clue

http://shadowcat.co.uk/blog/matt-s-trout/   http://twitter.com/shadowcat_mst/

Email me now on mst (at) shadowcat.co.uk and let's chat about how our Catalyst
commercial support, training and consultancy packages could help your team.

From yaakov at perlfoundation.org  Sun Mar 24 14:53:16 2013
From: yaakov at perlfoundation.org (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ya=B4akov_Sloman?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 17:53:16 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <514D438F.6000305@pobox.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<514D438F.6000305@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <CA5B443D-1BE7-43E9-A647-88760E8E4D50@perlfoundation.org>

Hello, everyone.

As Community Advocate for TPF, my portfolio includes "community health and growth", so the sorts of issues around a CoC are very much incorporated into my r?le.  Of course, I am very happy to see so much interest in community issues, it's a sign of at least one aspect of health, but, from my perspective, this particular activity is question begging.  I believe we need to come to a community consensus on three more fundamental things before the work of writing the CoC can be a service to the Perl community, which is surely the intention here.

To advocate for the Perl community as a whole, that is, for those not only participating here, but those not present (which includes many current, long-term members of our community and all future ones), I am compelled to ask for that three question be answered, in terms of the consensus within the community before the process of writing a CoC (or editing the existing one) can move forward.  Asking these questions presupposes no particular answer, it is a way to find the genuine consensus and create something truly descriptive of the ethos.

1. What is the purpose of the CoC?

Writing a CoC is a *practical* step.  To do it in a way that is *practically* effective, we need to know why we are doing it at all.  This is not an uncontroversial question.  Some in the community feel the need is self-evident, others deny the need altogether.  Most people haven't even considered it, and may not care one way or another.  For this reason, we need a charter, a goal, something practical that is expected to be the outcome of a *good* CoC.

2. What are the criteria for success?

Once we have a goal, we can identify empirical tests, which may be objective or somewhat subjective (the subject being the Perl community) that will allow us to determine if the CoC, as written, does achieve the goal that was set for it.  This is very important, since the CoC will almost certainly contain some specific things, rather then general principles, which might need emendation or ever deletion, and we'll need to be able to tell if that's the case.  If we can't come up with a way to test the efficacy of a CoC, I don't think we have any business writing one.

3. What is the process for amendment in light of failed testing?

We must, from the outset, have a process for dealing with the results of testing.  If we don't, the CoC will become a burden, and surely will be a source of unending friction among community members.  The process should ensure that the CoC evolves with the community, and continues to reflect a consensus about the ethos.

In the end, a Perl Community CoC must reflect the community itself.  While it will undoubtedly change the community by dint of its existence, it must also reflect the changes the community is willing to make.  Ideas and even phraseology from other communities' CoCs will no doubt be very helpful, but only after we understand what our community believes is right.  The CoC must be *descriptive* of the broad center of Perl people, and *prescriptive* only for those people who stray outside this. I don't believe we are in a position to claim we can write something descriptive at this time.  We first need the answers to the questions posed above.

Respectfully,
Ya?akov

From rob.kinyon at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 08:20:56 2013
From: rob.kinyon at gmail.com (Rob Kinyon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 11:20:56 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CA5B443D-1BE7-43E9-A647-88760E8E4D50@perlfoundation.org>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<514D438F.6000305@pobox.com>
	<CA5B443D-1BE7-43E9-A647-88760E8E4D50@perlfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <CADbe1CVjBqhX+3AcWHS+uOEqki-mL4=j=b_g-Txm245BMOvnZg@mail.gmail.com>

Ya'akov -

    Great points for discussion. Before going into some of the points, I'd
like to pose a meta-question to the group - does it make sense to have the
discussion on the yapc at pm.org mailing list or in the YAPC-NA/code-conduct
wiki?

    I'm not going to speak on the purpose or criteria for success - I'm not
sure I have much to say on those right now. But, the process for amendment
is the github repository. We all know how to amend CPAN modules. Let's use
the same process (with a couple modifications at the end) for this. We know
it works for code - this is just another type of code.

    The modifications at the end are that TPF determines when the
proposed_XXXX branch is closed for modification and that the lawyers have
the final code review. Other than that, submit pull requests just like
autarch did.


On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Ya?akov Sloman
<yaakov at perlfoundation.org>wrote:

> Hello, everyone.
>
> As Community Advocate for TPF, my portfolio includes "community health and
> growth", so the sorts of issues around a CoC are very much incorporated
> into my r?le.  Of course, I am very happy to see so much interest in
> community issues, it's a sign of at least one aspect of health, but, from
> my perspective, this particular activity is question begging.  I believe we
> need to come to a community consensus on three more fundamental things
> before the work of writing the CoC can be a service to the Perl community,
> which is surely the intention here.
>
> To advocate for the Perl community as a whole, that is, for those not only
> participating here, but those not present (which includes many current,
> long-term members of our community and all future ones), I am compelled to
> ask for that three question be answered, in terms of the consensus within
> the community before the process of writing a CoC (or editing the existing
> one) can move forward.  Asking these questions presupposes no particular
> answer, it is a way to find the genuine consensus and create something
> truly descriptive of the ethos.
>
> 1. What is the purpose of the CoC?
>
> Writing a CoC is a *practical* step.  To do it in a way that is
> *practically* effective, we need to know why we are doing it at all.  This
> is not an uncontroversial question.  Some in the community feel the need is
> self-evident, others deny the need altogether.  Most people haven't even
> considered it, and may not care one way or another.  For this reason, we
> need a charter, a goal, something practical that is expected to be the
> outcome of a *good* CoC.
>
> 2. What are the criteria for success?
>
> Once we have a goal, we can identify empirical tests, which may be
> objective or somewhat subjective (the subject being the Perl community)
> that will allow us to determine if the CoC, as written, does achieve the
> goal that was set for it.  This is very important, since the CoC will
> almost certainly contain some specific things, rather then general
> principles, which might need emendation or ever deletion, and we'll need to
> be able to tell if that's the case.  If we can't come up with a way to test
> the efficacy of a CoC, I don't think we have any business writing one.
>
> 3. What is the process for amendment in light of failed testing?
>
> We must, from the outset, have a process for dealing with the results of
> testing.  If we don't, the CoC will become a burden, and surely will be a
> source of unending friction among community members.  The process should
> ensure that the CoC evolves with the community, and continues to reflect a
> consensus about the ethos.
>
> In the end, a Perl Community CoC must reflect the community itself.  While
> it will undoubtedly change the community by dint of its existence, it must
> also reflect the changes the community is willing to make.  Ideas and even
> phraseology from other communities' CoCs will no doubt be very helpful, but
> only after we understand what our community believes is right.  The CoC
> must be *descriptive* of the broad center of Perl people, and
> *prescriptive* only for those people who stray outside this. I don't
> believe we are in a position to claim we can write something descriptive at
> this time.  We first need the answers to the questions posed above.
>
> Respectfully,
> Ya?akov
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
>



-- 
Thanks,
Rob Kinyon
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From jvp at bluehost.com  Mon Mar 25 09:30:56 2013
From: jvp at bluehost.com (Jason Van Patten)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:30:56 -0600
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <20130324205113.GH6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
	<20130324205113.GH6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <51507BC0.90705@bluehost.com>

Pardon my impertinence, as this is my first year attending YAPC, but it 
seems to me that situations similar to to what happened at PYCON are not 
a new problem. Discrimination is a very old, albeit ugly, habit for 
humans. While we may not be able to control who attends or even who 
agrees with the CoC, even if we do have it on github, one thing is 
certain an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Recent studies have shown that focus on the punitive reactions to 
repugnant behavior is less effective at repressing that behavior than 
promotion of positive behavior. Perhaps it would behoove the community 
to establish a protocol for the recognition of admirable actions in a 
very public way. In effect create incentive for companies who send 
employees to conferences to encourage dignified behavior for a shot at 
getting their name promoted instead of the socially deplorable 
affiliation achieved by the employers of certain attendees of PYCON.

If nothing else a small trophy to extol the virtues of the wisdom 
conscious, out of the box thinking, that Perl embodies would be, i 
think, a welcome contrast to the relatively rigid and reactionary nature 
that has thus far been demonstrated by the Python advocates to the 
programming world in general.

It's not that we really need to remind people of Perl's superiority, but 
it is fun to do.


Jason Van Patten


On 03/24/2013 02:51 PM, Matt S Trout wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 01:30:15AM -0400, Denise Paolucci wrote:
>> As someone who *has* been harassed at conferences before -- though not YAPC, which I've found delightful -- it's always nice to hear efforts to make a particular space more welcoming come from people who are making those efforts because it's the right thing to do. :)
>>
>> I'll also drop in a link here to the Dreamwidth Diversity Statement, which contains the most exhaustive list of axes-of-diversity we (and our users) have been able to think of in four years or so:
>>
>>     http://www.dreamwidth.org/legal/diversity
>>
>> Likely not all applicable, but it's CC-BY-SA, so feel free to borrow liberally!
> http://shadow.cat/blog/matt-s-trout/on-not-being-a-problem/
>
> probably has some ideas as well. Feel free to take from that as CC-BY-SA
> or, honestly, under any reasonable license you can think of - I'll happily
> add a note to any text you want confirming that as it gets committed.
>


From autarch at urth.org  Mon Mar 25 09:38:57 2013
From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 11:38:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <51507BC0.90705@bluehost.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
	<20130324205113.GH6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>
	<51507BC0.90705@bluehost.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251135010.25270@urth.org>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, Jason Van Patten wrote:

> Recent studies have shown that focus on the punitive reactions to repugnant 
> behavior is less effective at repressing that behavior than promotion of 
> positive behavior. Perhaps it would behoove the community to establish a 
> protocol for the recognition of admirable actions in a very public way. In 
> effect create incentive for companies who send employees to conferences to 
> encourage dignified behavior for a shot at getting their name promoted 
> instead of the socially deplorable affiliation achieved by the employers of 
> certain attendees of PYCON.

I'm not sure what you're really proposing. The majority of attendees never 
violate the CoC.

What are "admirable actions" that go beyond having civil, respectful 
interactions with your fellow attendees?

But I guess I look forward to receiving a trophy or plaque that says 
something like "in recognition of not being a tool" ;)


-dave

/*============================================================
http://VegGuide.org               http://blog.urth.org
Your guide to all that's veg      House Absolute(ly Pointless)
============================================================*/

From kevinlenzo at me.com  Mon Mar 25 09:44:46 2013
From: kevinlenzo at me.com (Kevin Lenzo)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:44:46 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251135010.25270@urth.org>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
	<20130324205113.GH6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>
	<51507BC0.90705@bluehost.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251135010.25270@urth.org>
Message-ID: <17728572-1273-4642-AAB3-A4544A76CBD1@me.com>


On Mar 25, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Dave Rolsky <autarch at urth.org> wrote:

> But I guess I look forward to receiving a trophy or plaque that says something like "in recognition of not being a tool" ;)

That is a YAPC cookie. If you are nice you get to stay and have a cookie with all the nice people.

Do we still have cookies?

Kevin


From jvp at bluehost.com  Mon Mar 25 09:49:11 2013
From: jvp at bluehost.com (Jason Van Patten)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:49:11 -0600
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251135010.25270@urth.org>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
	<20130324205113.GH6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>
	<51507BC0.90705@bluehost.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251135010.25270@urth.org>
Message-ID: <51508007.1040901@bluehost.com>

I specifically left this as a non specific comment to engender 
discussion, conceptually it should be an award that taps into the viral 
nature of the PYCON incident and contrasts the company or companies that 
highlight how Perl programmers and their employers are not "tools". 
Moreover we should highlight that YAPC despite being oriented around an 
older language is far more progressive in it's paradigm.

JVP

On 03/25/2013 10:38 AM, Dave Rolsky wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, Jason Van Patten wrote:
>
>> Recent studies have shown that focus on the punitive reactions to 
>> repugnant behavior is less effective at repressing that behavior than 
>> promotion of positive behavior. Perhaps it would behoove the 
>> community to establish a protocol for the recognition of admirable 
>> actions in a very public way. In effect create incentive for 
>> companies who send employees to conferences to encourage dignified 
>> behavior for a shot at getting their name promoted instead of the 
>> socially deplorable affiliation achieved by the employers of certain 
>> attendees of PYCON.
>
> I'm not sure what you're really proposing. The majority of attendees 
> never violate the CoC.
>
> What are "admirable actions" that go beyond having civil, respectful 
> interactions with your fellow attendees?
>
> But I guess I look forward to receiving a trophy or plaque that says 
> something like "in recognition of not being a tool" ;)
>
>
> -dave
>
> /*============================================================
> http://VegGuide.org               http://blog.urth.org
> Your guide to all that's veg      House Absolute(ly Pointless)
> ============================================================*/
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc


From autarch at urth.org  Mon Mar 25 09:59:34 2013
From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 11:59:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <51508007.1040901@bluehost.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
	<20130324205113.GH6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>
	<51507BC0.90705@bluehost.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251135010.25270@urth.org>
	<51508007.1040901@bluehost.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251152220.25270@urth.org>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, Jason Van Patten wrote:

> I specifically left this as a non specific comment to engender discussion, 
> conceptually it should be an award that taps into the viral nature of the 
> PYCON incident and contrasts the company or companies that highlight how Perl 
> programmers and their employers are not "tools". Moreover we should highlight 
> that YAPC despite being oriented around an older language is far more 
> progressive in it's paradigm.

I really don't think YAPC is more progressive than PyCon. PyCon has had 
their CoC since 2012, only one year after YAPC. And for YAPC 2012 there 
was a rather large argument about whether to have a CoC at all (even 
though 2011 had one). There have been incidents at YAPCs in the past of 
varying severity.

The "dongle" incident at PyCon only became a big deal because it went 
public. If it had been handled solely using the conference's CoC, it would 
have been minor. I'm sure this exact sort of minor incident has happened 
at YAPC, and will happen again.

Also keep in mind that PyCon is a _lot_ bigger than YAPC, with over 2,500 
attendees!


-dave

/*============================================================
http://VegGuide.org               http://blog.urth.org
Your guide to all that's veg      House Absolute(ly Pointless)
============================================================*/

From toddr at cpanel.net  Mon Mar 25 10:11:56 2013
From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:11:56 -0500
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251152220.25270@urth.org>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
	<20130324205113.GH6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>
	<51507BC0.90705@bluehost.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251135010.25270@urth.org>
	<51508007.1040901@bluehost.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251152220.25270@urth.org>
Message-ID: <209BC3F4-50FA-4E92-B549-1F1CEFFF029A@cpanel.net>

This is a wonderful discussion, and I don't want to stifle it, but the mass unsubscriptions we are seeing says that not everyone is enjoying it or willing to speak up. I am fearful that the effect will be that people are closing their ears about YAPC as a result of this conversation.

This is really an organizer's conversation. Can we perhaps move this to another forum? Chris Prather has suggested using the existing Github tools, or we can set up another mailing list, or whatever people would like.

Thanks,
Todd

From denise at dwscoalition.org  Mon Mar 25 10:15:47 2013
From: denise at dwscoalition.org (Denise Paolucci)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 13:15:47 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CA5B443D-1BE7-43E9-A647-88760E8E4D50@perlfoundation.org>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<514D438F.6000305@pobox.com>
	<CA5B443D-1BE7-43E9-A647-88760E8E4D50@perlfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <E06B0AA0-FEAC-42A1-9AF9-D96D9FAC2E22@dwscoalition.org>

The purpose of an event having a code of conduct is (or should be) twofold:

a) to let attendees know what standard of behavior at the event is expected;
b) to function as a signal to attendees that the conference organizers treat harassment as a serious problem (and ideally to signal that the conference will not brush off reports of violation, but that's a far more complex issue).

Neither of these are *directly* quantifiable -- though they can be indirectly quantified -- and so any framework for evaluating the success of, or proposing amendments to, an event's code of conduct must take that into account.

--D


On Mar 24, 2013, at 5:53 PM, Ya?akov Sloman wrote:

> Hello, everyone.
> 
> As Community Advocate for TPF, my portfolio includes "community health and growth", so the sorts of issues around a CoC are very much incorporated into my r?le.  Of course, I am very happy to see so much interest in community issues, it's a sign of at least one aspect of health, but, from my perspective, this particular activity is question begging.  I believe we need to come to a community consensus on three more fundamental things before the work of writing the CoC can be a service to the Perl community, which is surely the intention here.
> 
> To advocate for the Perl community as a whole, that is, for those not only participating here, but those not present (which includes many current, long-term members of our community and all future ones), I am compelled to ask for that three question be answered, in terms of the consensus within the community before the process of writing a CoC (or editing the existing one) can move forward.  Asking these questions presupposes no particular answer, it is a way to find the genuine consensus and create something truly descriptive of the ethos.
> 
> 1. What is the purpose of the CoC?
> 
> Writing a CoC is a *practical* step.  To do it in a way that is *practically* effective, we need to know why we are doing it at all.  This is not an uncontroversial question.  Some in the community feel the need is self-evident, others deny the need altogether.  Most people haven't even considered it, and may not care one way or another.  For this reason, we need a charter, a goal, something practical that is expected to be the outcome of a *good* CoC.
> 
> 2. What are the criteria for success?
> 
> Once we have a goal, we can identify empirical tests, which may be objective or somewhat subjective (the subject being the Perl community) that will allow us to determine if the CoC, as written, does achieve the goal that was set for it.  This is very important, since the CoC will almost certainly contain some specific things, rather then general principles, which might need emendation or ever deletion, and we'll need to be able to tell if that's the case.  If we can't come up with a way to test the efficacy of a CoC, I don't think we have any business writing one.
> 
> 3. What is the process for amendment in light of failed testing?
> 
> We must, from the outset, have a process for dealing with the results of testing.  If we don't, the CoC will become a burden, and surely will be a source of unending friction among community members.  The process should ensure that the CoC evolves with the community, and continues to reflect a consensus about the ethos.
> 
> In the end, a Perl Community CoC must reflect the community itself.  While it will undoubtedly change the community by dint of its existence, it must also reflect the changes the community is willing to make.  Ideas and even phraseology from other communities' CoCs will no doubt be very helpful, but only after we understand what our community believes is right.  The CoC must be *descriptive* of the broad center of Perl people, and *prescriptive* only for those people who stray outside this. I don't believe we are in a position to claim we can write something descriptive at this time.  We first need the answers to the questions posed above.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Ya?akov
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc

-- 
Denise Paolucci
denise at dwscoalition.org
Dreamwidth Studios: Open Source, open expression, open operations. Join us: www.dreamwidth.org


From mcmahon at ibiblio.org  Mon Mar 25 10:18:13 2013
From: mcmahon at ibiblio.org (Joe McMahon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:18:13 -0700
Subject: Can we include the Act templates in the new YAPC-NA repo on github
In-Reply-To: <738FCA4E-9312-4314-A51C-6EF59145B197@gmail.com>
References: <CAGrcjSS-LQvg+vCbvyjCZc34vx-FaMUMPZodDJvmnCYZsCL4wg@mail.gmail.com>
	<3FB2981E-C1B7-433A-9D76-29E64321A277@cpanel.net>
	<738FCA4E-9312-4314-A51C-6EF59145B197@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHxkc3RAoSxgiBiRVmExTRgnXkdJu-pDxhjfgNwxZXXUe8cWgA@mail.gmail.com>

I accidentally sent this to just Rob - totally agree with him on having a
freely-accessible backup; a small cronjob to sync it up seems like a
reasonable way to do this.


On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Rob Kinyon <rob.kinyon at gmail.com> wrote:

> The biggest value is community participation and reducing barriers to that
> participation. I helped run 2010 and I never had access to the ACT svn. If
> it had been on github, I could have helped in further ways. Github already
> has the wiki, the issue tracker, and is where all the current work on
> process improvement is happening.
>
> I'm not saying ACT has to change its process. I'm saying that github
> allows greater participation, and that's a "Good Thing". Robert's point
> about integrating with ACT is well-taken.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 24, 2013, at 4:01, Todd Rinaldo <toddr at cpanel.net> wrote:
>
> > Robert, I'm not convinced there's value in this. ACT uses svn still for
> having event custom files. As best I can tell, referencing the previous
> year doesn't buy us much. And even if I do want to do this, it's all on the
> same ACT server the 2013 one is on.
> >
> > Short version: This creates more work to keep it in sync with svn, which
> is where the authoritative copy of all previous years are stored. What is
> the value?
> >
> > On Mar 23, 2013, at 9:35 AM, Robert Blackwell <
> robert at robertblackwell.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I am so excited to see the new YAPC-NA repo on Github,
> >> https://github.com/YAPC-NA.
> >>
> >> I would like to propose adding the Act templates to the repo.
> >>
> >> To make this work best we will need to work out a workflow that works
> >> with the current SVN set up that is used now.
> >>
> >>
> >> Robert
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> yapc mailing list
> >> yapc at pm.org
> >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > yapc mailing list
> > yapc at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
> _______________________________________________
> yapc mailing list
> yapc at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc
>
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From stevan.little at iinteractive.com  Mon Mar 25 10:38:40 2013
From: stevan.little at iinteractive.com (Stevan Little)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 13:38:40 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251135010.25270@urth.org>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
	<20130324205113.GH6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>
	<51507BC0.90705@bluehost.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251135010.25270@urth.org>
Message-ID: <29FE8910-00B8-4177-9C4D-B4427CC395EA@iinteractive.com>


On Mar 25, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Dave Rolsky <autarch at urth.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, Jason Van Patten wrote:
> 
>> Recent studies have shown that focus on the punitive reactions to repugnant behavior is less effective at repressing that behavior than promotion of positive behavior. Perhaps it would behoove the community to establish a protocol for the recognition of admirable actions in a very public way. In effect create incentive for companies who send employees to conferences to encourage dignified behavior for a shot at getting their name promoted instead of the socially deplorable affiliation achieved by the employers of certain attendees of PYCON.
> 
> I'm not sure what you're really proposing. The majority of attendees never violate the CoC.
> 
> What are "admirable actions" that go beyond having civil, respectful interactions with your fellow attendees?
> 
> But I guess I look forward to receiving a trophy or plaque that says something like "in recognition of not being a tool" ;)

How about "I wen't to YAPC and was a civil, respectful human being", then on the back "? and all I got was this forking t-shirt!"

;)

- Stevan

From auggy at cpan.org  Mon Mar 25 11:07:40 2013
From: auggy at cpan.org (Augustina Blair)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:07:40 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <29FE8910-00B8-4177-9C4D-B4427CC395EA@iinteractive.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
	<20130324205113.GH6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>
	<51507BC0.90705@bluehost.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251135010.25270@urth.org>
	<29FE8910-00B8-4177-9C4D-B4427CC395EA@iinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <CAAaPMFwAphNjB9fkBgaovA+UMVTYf3NrgEWonNFUTsVjS9uMnQ@mail.gmail.com>

What are the consequences if someone violates the Code of Conduct? Or
to be more specific, if someone violates the Code of Conduct in a
public enough way that it is brought to the attention of whoever is
responsible for enforcing it?

From auggy at cpan.org  Mon Mar 25 11:10:32 2013
From: auggy at cpan.org (Augustina Blair)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:10:32 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CAAaPMFwAphNjB9fkBgaovA+UMVTYf3NrgEWonNFUTsVjS9uMnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CUwUD48TjLJZ5ty55WTO8RwVCcChFjJVw1dRm0Fqk+Jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATG1aBVYNr4X9bM1u-3Gs4Ov+XzEsLhRD5Xd90GRBy=rjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGrcjSRnK3d4tR06qc+qpk9OEipi8tEZT=YbV2scx6gN2cioLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM7ifJjy2udqhzw-oJJNWoSya=WNWv2TKbv7KqS4egTf2ns8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbe1CV-ibot_jtNDnSnUHWPzFPszGzSRCs4dfOQdoej9SGwTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABSyATFRu4m3VqZ1swsj89C01cQF1f3jj17eEUvESVqL00XEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<0974553A-6E22-4945-93DE-79B9B5157D2A@dwscoalition.org>
	<20130324205113.GH6663@newagaton.scsys.co.uk>
	<51507BC0.90705@bluehost.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303251135010.25270@urth.org>
	<29FE8910-00B8-4177-9C4D-B4427CC395EA@iinteractive.com>
	<CAAaPMFwAphNjB9fkBgaovA+UMVTYf3NrgEWonNFUTsVjS9uMnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAaPMFzaSEu4+fu5Ktn6DUq6iyKfwJK+iUhwSQRV3o9vHuKPxg@mail.gmail.com>

Nevermind, RTFM doh, I must have somehow skimmed over it.


On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Augustina Blair <auggy at cpan.org> wrote:
> What are the consequences if someone violates the Code of Conduct? Or
> to be more specific, if someone violates the Code of Conduct in a
> public enough way that it is brought to the attention of whoever is
> responsible for enforcing it?

From yaakov at perlfoundation.org  Mon Mar 25 14:26:39 2013
From: yaakov at perlfoundation.org (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ya=B4akov_Sloman?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 17:26:39 -0400
Subject: RFC: YAPC Code of conduct up on github?
In-Reply-To: <CAL_=42ycXSfWqGm7Wiu1j_7m2UXMrgA3s4rZyJ1E1vCRJcj-Pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSyATF2+1KA8+65-_WShbRTE6khG-+OwYpMs_FXJEtZfPZwBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<514D438F.6000305@pobox.com>
	<CA5B443D-1BE7-43E9-A647-88760E8E4D50@perlfoundation.org>
	<CAL_=42ycXSfWqGm7Wiu1j_7m2UXMrgA3s4rZyJ1E1vCRJcj-Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D43DF44-DF08-4AB9-814D-DF9595045298@perlfoundation.org>

Everyone interested in continuing this thread:

Our discussion here is very important, but we are making too much noise and annoying the neighbors.  Everyone actively participating, and anyone lurking, please, join a new list specific to this discussion, here:

  http://mail.lists.perlcommunity.org/mailman/listinfo/conduct_lists.perlcommunity.org

This is very important community work, and all of you are valuable (even lurkers).  Let's not lose the momentum.

Thanks,
Ya?akov

From admin at yapcna.org  Sat Mar 30 08:02:11 2013
From: admin at yapcna.org (YAPC NA)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 10:02:11 -0500
Subject: YAPC::NA Updates - Call for speakers and Payment links
Message-ID: <CALC=KULR-G=BG2uhtPzuPJtfabdVh8VSfG8AQ7NnB6vOnTx8cA@mail.gmail.com>

This is the final reminder for talk submissions: The call for speakers
deadline for YAPC Austin 2013 is this coming Monday. If you haven?t
already submitted your talk, you can do so at:
http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/newtalk

Also if you have not done so already, you can pay for training and
early bird conference payments at:
http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/purchase