From grant at mclean.net.nz  Wed Oct  1 16:01:41 2008
From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:01:41 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meeting in two weeks
Message-ID: <1222902101.903.30.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>

Hi Mongers

Mark your calendars - the next meeting of Wellington.pm is in two weeks
on October 14th.  We have three talks lined up:

 * Andy Chilton - Perl Tidy
 * Grant McLean - Perl Objects with Moose
 * Martyn Smith - TBA

Usual place and time ...

  6:00pm Tuesday 14 October 2008
  Level 3, The building soon to be known as Catalyst House
  150 Willis Street
  Wellington

See you there

Grant


From alan at catalyst.net.nz  Wed Oct  1 16:18:16 2008
From: alan at catalyst.net.nz (Alan McNatty)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:18:16 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Hello
Message-ID: <48E40538.1070201@catalyst.net.nz>

Hi all,

I've just joined the mailing list so am just sending my introductory email.

I've just got back from a 3 year stint in London (Fulham) where I was 
working as a perl programmer and sysadmin for NewsNow Publishing Limited 
(www.newsnow.co.uk). NewsNow are an online news aggregator specialising 
in football and UK press coverage. They scan over 30,000 web pages for 
news articles ever 5-10 minutes. They get some sizable traffic (was up 
to 11 million hits a month when I left, with an average annual growth 
rate of 60%).

All the front and back end systems were written in Perl. On the up side 
the company was very small (3-4 developers) and makes it's living these 
days predominantly off on-line advertising (no clients, yah!). On the 
down side the company has been around for a few years the job involved a 
lot of (fairly nasty) legacy code.

See y'all on Tuesday.

Cheers,
Alan

From andychilton at gmail.com  Wed Oct  1 17:41:40 2008
From: andychilton at gmail.com (Andrew Chilton)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:41:40 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Hello
In-Reply-To: <48E40538.1070201@catalyst.net.nz>
References: <48E40538.1070201@catalyst.net.nz>
Message-ID: <a364f6fa0810011741kb52c478v9d2584c406ab7166@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Alan,

Good to have you back in the country.

2008/10/2 Alan McNatty <alan at catalyst.net.nz>:
> [snip] On the down side
> the company has been around for a few years the job involved a lot of
> (fairly nasty) legacy code.

Like almost every project I've ever worked on. :-) Even if it was new
to start with, people started calling it 'old code' or 'legacy code'
after about 2 years anyway.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
contact: Andrew Chilton
website: http://kapiti.geek.nz/

From grant at mclean.net.nz  Thu Oct  2 01:07:27 2008
From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:07:27 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] [Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program,
	October 1]
Message-ID: <1222934847.6970.3.camel@hoiho>

-------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Marsee Henon
> Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, October 1
> Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:32:15 -0700
>
> ================================================================
> O'Reilly News for User Group Members
> September 30, 2008
> ================================================================
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> New Releases--Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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> MAKE Magazine Subscriptions
> The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you
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> ================================================
> Upcoming Author Events
> ================================================
> For more events, please see:
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> 
> Jesse Liberty Presents a Webcast: Exploring Deep Zoom in Silverlight 2
> Oct 1, 2008
> In this live presentation Silverlight Geek Jesse Liberty (Programming
> Silverlight 2 and Programming .NET 3.5) delves into understanding and
> using Deep Zoop and how it can be integrated into your Silverlight
> application. 
> <http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/WebCastEventDetails.aspx?EventID=1032374262&EventCategory=4&culture=en-US&CountryCode=US>
> 
> 
> Stephen Johnson -- Fine Art Digital Printing
> Oct 2-5, 2008
> Stephen Johnson Photography Studios
> Pacifica, CA
> Join Stephen Johnson (Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography) for four
> days of hands-on printing instruction.
> <http://www.sjphoto.com/print_wkspHO_frameset.html>
> 
> 
> Noah Gift at PyArkansas
> Oct 4, 2008
> University of Central Arkansas
> Conway, Arkansas
> Author Noah Gift (Python For Unix and Linux Systems Administration) will
> present a 3 hour tutorial on Python For Systems Administration, and sit
> on a panel discussing the Python Standard Library.
> <http://pycamp.python.org/Arkansas/HomePage>
> 
> 
> Joey Lott at AS3 Apex in St. Louis
> Oct 4, 2008
> ST. Louis, MO
> Author Joey Lott (Programming Flex 3) will be presenting Flex,
> Actionscript, and Flash. Space is limited so please RSVP. 
> <http://www.as3apex.com/as3/joey-lott-is-coming-to-stlouis-on-october-4th>
> 
> 
> Sean Duggan Presents a Week-Long Seminar: "Real World Digital
> Photography, Session 2"
> Oct 5-11, 2008
> Rockport, ME
> Sean Duggan's (The Creative Digital Darkroom) week-long seminar is a
> follow-up to the popular Real World Digital Photography Seesion 1 class.
> Designed to take up where the previous class left off, this course
> concentrates on more advanced topics relating to photography with
> digital SLRs and improving images with Adobe Photoshop.
> <http://www.theworkshops.com/catalog/courses/index.asp?CourseID=2840&SchoolID=20>
> 
> 
> Java Power Tools Bootcamp in Brisbane
> Oct 6-9, 2008
> Brisbane, Australia
> The Java Power Tools bootcamp is taught by John Ferguson Smart (Java
> Power Tools). The bootcamp is an intense 4-day hands-on workshop
> covering some of the best open source tools for Java development on the
> market. The course takes you on a in-depth guided tour of some of the
> best open source Java tools, showing how you can use them individually
> and together to write code better and faster, and have fun while you're
> doing it!
> <http://www.wakaleo.com/training/java-power-tools-bootcamp/brisbane-6-9-october>
> 
> 
> Julia Lerman at SDC Amsterdam
> Oct 6-7, 2008
> Leeuwenhorst Conference Centre
> Noordwijkerhout , The Netherlands
> Author Julia Lerman (Programming Entity Framework) presents Introductory
> and Advanced sessions on Entity Framework at the Software Development
> Conference 2008 in the Netherlands.
> <http://www.sdc.nl/>
> 
> 
> Nancy Duarte Presents "The slide:ology Basic Course"
> Oct 6-6, 2008
> Duarte Design
> Mountain View, CA
> Author Nancy Duarte (slide:ology) will be giving a full-day seminar
> jam-packed with design fundamentals, tips and tricks, interactive
> brainstorming and plenty of great visual examples to deconstruct. The
> morning will kick off with an inspirational keynote and then delve into
> content from the book slide:ology. You'll have your head around the
> concepts at this point, so we'll facilitate interactive exercises that
> will cement in you a new way of approaching your next presentation.
> <http://slideology.com/seminars/>
> 
> 
> Stephen Johnson -- Fundamentals of Digital Photography: The Basics, and
> Way Beyond
> Oct 8-9, 2008
> Stephen Johnson Photography Studios
> Pacifica, CA
> Join Stephen Johnson (Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography) for a
> workshop that includes the origins of electronic imaging, hardware,
> input/scanning, digital cameras, and more. 
> <http://www.sjphoto.com/beg_wksp_frameset.html>
> 
> 
> FOWA, London
> Oct 9-10, 2008
> London Excel
> London, UK
> FOWA London is Europe's biggest Web 2.0 Event with over 3000 of Europe's
> leading developers, designers and entrepreneurs attending to get
> Carsonified and discover the latest company, platform and product
> developments in web applications. Among the speakers, do not miss Kathy
> Sierra who along with her partner created the Head First Series.
> <http://london2008.futureofwebapps.com/>
> 
> 
> Joey Lott at Cleveland Flex User's Group
> Oct 9, 2008
> Cleveland, OH
> Author Joey Lott (Programming Flex 3) will be presenting Flex,
> Actionscript, and Flash.
> http://www.clefug.com/#app=be07&aec8-selectedIndex=2>
> 
> 
> Steven Pritchard and Tom Limoncelli at Ohio LinuxFest
> Oct 10-11, 2008
> Greater Columbus Convention Center
> Columbus, Ohio
> Author Steven Pritchard (LPI Linux Certification in a Nutshell) will be
> teaching a one-day LPI Certification "cram" class. Author Tom Limoncelli
> (Time Management for System Administrators) will be presenting two
> tutorials, "Time Management for System Administrators" and "Interviewing
> and Hiring Great Technical People".
> <http://www.ohiolinux.org/olfu.html#lp>
> 
> 
> Joey Lott at Central PA Adobe User Group & Central PA Flash User
> Group
> Oct 10, 2008
> Harrisburg, PA
> Author Joey Lott (Programming Flex 3) will be presenting "How To
> Architect Flex Applications."
> <http://cenpennaug.blogspot.com/2008/08/adobe-flex-3-author-joey-lott-to-speak.html>
> 
> 
> Dru Lavigne at NYCBSDCon in New York City
> Oct 11-12, 2008
> New York City, NY
> Dru Lavigne (BSD Hacks) will at NYC BSDCon 2008 in Columbia University
> in New York City. She will be giving a tutorial on system administration
> as well as proctoring the BSDA exam. Keep an eye out for her!
> <http://www.nycbsdcon.org/>
> 
> 
> Julia Lerman at DevConnections
> Oct 11-13, 2008
> Mandalay Bay Conference Center
> Las Vegas, NV
> Julia Lerman (Programming Entity Framework) will present a full-day
> Entity Framework pre-conference workshop as well as two sessions during
> the DevConnections conference.
> <http://www.devconnections.com/>
> 
> 
> Stephen Johnson -- Yosemite Valley in Autumn
> Oct 11-14, 2008
> Yosemite View Lodge
> Yosemite, CA
> Join Stephen Johnson (Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography) for a
> field workshop in Yosemite Valley. Enrollment limited to 12 people.
> <http://www.sjphoto.com/digital-photo-wksp-land-yosfall.html>
> 
> 
> Rick Sammon Leads a Week-Long Photography Workshop in Maine
> Oct 12-18, 2008
> Maine
> Join Rick Sammon (Face to Face) in Maine as he leads a photography
> workshop on capturing the seasons. Following a day of shooting, the
> classes will continue with Photoshop & Lightroom instruction in the
> digital labs. The class size is limited to 15 participants, so register
> soon!
> <http://www.theworkshops.com/catalog/courses/coursepage.asp?CourseID=3033&SchoolID=20&CatID=337&Tab=1>
> 
> 
> Julia Lerman presents on Entity Framework at DevReach 2008, Sofia
> Oct 13-14, 2008
> International Exhibition Center
> Sofia, Bulgaria
> Julia Lerman (Programming Entity Framework) presents Introductory and
> Advanced sessions on Entity Framework at the DevReach 2008 Conference.
> <http://www.devreach.com/>
> 
> 
> Scott Berkun at User Interface Engineering
> Oct 14-16, 2008
> Cambridge, MA
> Author Scott Berkun (The Myths of Innovation, Making Things Happen)
> presents a full day workshop entitled "The Myths of Innovation: How to
> Lead Breakthrough Projects".
> <http://www.uie.com/events/uiconf/2008/seminars/berkun/>
> 
> 
> Jesse Liberty Presents a Webcast: From DB to Display in the Data-Grid
> with Silverlight
> Oct 15, 2008
> In this live presentation Silverlight Geek Jesse Liberty (Programming
> Silverlight 2 and Programming .NET 3.5) will demonstrate how to extract
> data from a SQL database using LINQ, make it available through a Web
> Service, and create a Silverlight Application that consumes that data
> and makes it visible to the user in a vivid and interactive way.
> <http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/WebCastEventDetails.aspx?EventID=1032381762&EventCategory=4&culture=en-US&CountryCode=US>
> 
> 
> Christopher Schmitt at the Web Design and Developer Conference
> Oct 15-15, 2008
> Orlando World Center Marriott Resort
> Orlando, FL
> Web Designers feel comfortable with complex digital imaging software
> such as Photoshop and Illustrator and marking up pages with XHTML CSS.
> However, to break through a static Web page, today's Web designer needs
> to work with JavaScript to add interactivity and custom usability
> enhancements, which can be intimidating for right-brain thinkers. In
> this session, author Christopher Schmitt (CSS Cookbook, Releasing CSS)
> covers how JavaScript frameworks like jQuery can save time, hair loss
> and still add the cool.
> <http://www.mogo-media.com/conferences/the-web-design-conference/2008/orlando/>
> 
> 
> Douglas Crockford at the Bay Area Functional Programmers
> Oct 15, 2008
> Hi5, 55 2nd Street, Suite 300
> San Francisco, CA
> Author Douglas Crockford (JavaScript: The Good Parts) will be presenting
> "Functional JavaScript."
> <http://www.bayfp.org/blog/2008/09/19/october-15th-douglas-crockford-on-functional-javascript/>
> 
> 
> Nitesh Dhanjani at Microsoft Blue Hat v8
> Oct 16-17, 2008
> Redmond, WA
> Nitesh Dhanjani (Network Security Tools) talks about how your online
> persona and activity can be tracked, correlated and used to influence
> behavior at Microsoft's Blue Hat Security Conference. 
> <http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/cc748656.aspx>
> 
> 
> Martin Nystrom at Triangle InfoSeCon
> Oct 16-16, 2008
> McKimmon Conference and Training Center at NC State University
> Raleigh, NC
> Author Martin Nystrom (SQL Injection Defenses) and Dave Schwartzburg
> will present "Monitor the Monitors", based on a chapter from the
> forthcoming O'Reilly book, "Practical Information Security Monitoring."
> <http://raleigh.issa.org/conference.html>
> 
> 
> Dux Raymond Sy at PMI Global Congress North America 2008
> Oct 19-19, 2008
> Hyatt Regency Denver at the Colorado Convention Center
> Denver, CO
> Author Dux Raymond Sy, PMP (SharePoint for Project Management) presents
> "Ways to Leverage SharePoint for Project Management Success" at the
> Exhibitor Educational Presentation (EEP) of the PMI Global Congress
> North America 2008. The 90-minute presentation will showcase the
> benefits of SharePoint in addressing critical project management
> challenges in the areas of project communication, document management
> and project team collaboration. Project Management Professionals (PMP)
> can earn 1.5 Professional Development Units for participation if they
> attend the full session.
> <http://congresses.pmi.org/NorthAmerica2008/TheCongress/Exhibitors/LEEPs.cfm>
> 
> 
> Gordon Meyer at Magic & Meaning Conference
> Oct 22-25, 2008
> Las Vegas, Nevada
> Gordon Meyer (Smart Home Hacks) will speak about home automation at
> Magic and Meaning 2008. The conference takes place at McBride's Magic
> School, a leading center for training magicians.
> <http://www.magicalwisdom.com/details.php?id=381>
> 
> 
> Joey Lott at the Philadelphia Flex User Group
> Oct 22, 2008
> Philadelphia, PA
> Author Joey Lott (Programming Flex 3) will be presenting Flex,
> Actionscript, and Flash.
> <http://www.phflex.org/>
> 
> 
> O'Reilly at PhotoPlus Expo
> Oct 23-25, 2008
> Jacob Javits Convention Center
> New York, NY
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> <http://www.photoplusexpo.com/>
> 
> 
> John Papa at Day of Silverlight 2.0
> Oct 24-24, 2008
> Microsoft Office -- 5426 Bay Center Drive, Suite 700
> Tampa, FL
> Author John Papa (Data Services with Silverlight 2) will be speaking at
> this free event hosted by Microsoft. He will be speaking on the
> following topics: Data Binding Foundations, Notifications, Modes, Lists, and
> Value Converters: 
> - Consuming SOAP with WCF and ASMX, POX and REST services, and
> Syndication
> - LINQ to XML & LINQ to JSON
> - Building REST styled services with Silverlight to 3rd Party
> API's
> - Using Visual Studio and Blend and to develop Silverlight
> applications 
> <http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/EventDetail.aspx?EventID=1032387218&culture=en-US>
> 
> ================================================
> Conferences and Special Events
> ================================================
> Maker Faire Austin Tickets on Sale--October 18 and 19, 2008
> Travis County Event Center and Fairground
> Maker Faire is a two-day, family-friendly event that celebrates the
> Do-It-Yourself (DIY) mindset. It's for creative, resourceful people of
> all ages and backgrounds who like to tinker and love to make things.
> http://www.makerfaire.com/
> 
> New this year, RoboGames bring battling bots to Austin for the first 
> ever texas cup.
> http://www.makerfaire.com/austin/2008/robogames/info/
> 
> Ticket information:
> <http://www.makerfairetickets.com/>
> 
> 
> Web 2.0 Expo Call for Participation Is Now Open, San Francisco--March
> 31-April 3
> Now in its third year, Web 2.0 Expo is for the builders of the next
> generation web: designers, developers, entrepreneurs, marketers,
> business strategists, and venture capitalists. We look not only for the
> hot new thing, but for the failures to learn from, the innovations and
> inspirations, the successes that will surprise you, and the practical
> applications of all of the above. Call closes midnight 10/08/2008 PDT.
> <http://en.oreilly.com/webexsf2009/public/cfp/42>
> 
> 
> MySQL Conference & Expo Call for Participation Is Now Open, Santa Clara,
> CA--April 20-23
> The MySQL Conference & Expo is the largest gathering of MySQL
> developers, users, and DBAs worldwide. For the 2009 edition, we'd like
> to explore advanced development techniques, enterprise database
> administration and security, VLDB and massive data warehouse
> administration, advanced BI technology, pluggable storage engine
> development, replication and scale-out solutions, and more. Call closes
> midnight PST October 22. Early registration will open in December.
> <http://mysqlconf.com>
> 
> 
> Register for iPhoneLive, San Jose, CA--November 18
> iPhoneLive will be a gathering of the best and brightest participants in
> the iPhone ecosystem today. Whether you're already building apps for the
> iPhone or are a developer who wants to make a move to the iPhone
> platform; if you're an entrepreneur or simply an enthusiast of the
> emerging iPhone industry, this is the event for you. It's going to be a
> mind-blowing day filled with information that you just can't get
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> well as general market information and lessons learned from leading
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> 
> Use code "ip08gd20" when you register, and receive 20% off
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> 
> To register for the conference, go to:
> <https://en.oreilly.com/iphonelive2008/public/register>
> 
> 
> 
> Ignite
> If you had five minutes on stage what would you say? What if you only
> got 20 slides and they rotated automatically after 15 seconds? Around
> the world geeks have been putting together Ignite nights to show their
> answers.
> <http://ignite.oreilly.com/>
> 
> Create your own Ignite in your area. Submit your proposal.
> <http://ignite.oreilly.com/submit.html>
> 
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> <http://ignite.oreilly.com/faq/how-to.html>
> 
> Upcoming Ignite events:
> 
> Ignite Baltimore #1, Oct 16
> 12 W. North Ave.
> Baltimore
> <http://ignitebaltimore.com/>
> 
> Ignite Phoenix II, October 29
> 4747 N 22nd Street
> Phoenix
> <http://ignite.oreilly.com/2008/09/if-you-had-five-minutes.html>
> 
> Ignite Bangalore, November 11
> The Royal Orchid in Bangalore (No 47/1,Manipal Centre, Dickenson Road)
> Bangalore
> <http://ignite.oreilly.com/2008/09/imagine-youre-on-stage-you.html>
> 
> Ignite Corvallis, November 13
> 725 SW 26th Street
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> <http://ignite.oreilly.com/2008/09/i-hope-youll-join-us.html>
> 
> Ignite Portland 4, November 13
> 3702 S.E. Hawthorne Blvd.
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> <http://ignite.oreilly.com/2008/08/legion-of-tech-is-organizing.html>
> 
> ================================================
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> News From O'Reilly & Beyond
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> News
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> First Look: Photoshop CS4
> Lesa Snider King, author for the upcoming "Photoshop CS4: The Missing
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> One Way to Become an O'Reilly Author
> Interested in how to become an author for O'Reilly? One way is to make
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> <http://fyi.oreilly.com/2008/09/one-way-to-become-an-author-fo.html>
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> 
> iPhone Forensics 101: Bypassing the iPhone Passcode Video
> Recently, Jonathan Zdziarski, author of the just-released "iPhone
> Forensics," delivered a much-talked about presentation on bypassing the
> iPhone 3G passcode, in which he revealed some little known "security"
> issues pertaining to that device. Most notable was the fact that the
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> (using your iPhone, of course). The recording is now ready for viewing.
> http://fyi.oreilly.com/2008/09/iphone-forensics-101-recording.html
> 
> 
> Work on Stuff That Matters--Tim O'Reilly @ Web 2.0
> Tim O'Reilly, founder of O'Reilly Media, didn't mince words as he
> addressed the crowd at Web 2.0 Expo in New York City. As CNET reported,
> he said: "You have to conclude, if you look at the focus of a lot of
> what you call 'Web 2.0,' the relentless focus on advertising-based
> consumer models, lightweight applications, we may be living in somewhat
> of a bubble, and I'm not talking about an investment bubble. (It's) a
> reality bubble." Indeed, in the wake of Wall Street's tumble and anxiety
> all around, Tim is asking people to think about what they would do
> differently and to "work on stuff that matters."
> <http://fyi.oreilly.com/2008/09/live-from-new-york--its-tim-or.html>
> 
> 
> Mine Kasapoglu on Location in Beijing
> Derrick Story interviews Mine Kasapoglu who photographed her first
> Olympics in 2002 at Salt Lake City. She's been shooting them ever since,
> including this year in Beijing.
> <http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2008/09/11/aperture-kasapoglu-in-beijing.html>
> 
> 
> Slashdot: Wall Street's Collapse Is Computer Science's Gain
> "Thanks to Wall Street's implosion, the chairman of Stanford
> University's Computer Science Department says he is seeing more interest
> from students in computer science. Ditto at Boston College. Computer
> science enrollments crashed after the dot-com bust as students turned to
> hedge fund majors."
> <http://news.slashdot.org/news/08/09/28/1824232.shtml>
> 
> 
> The Creative Suite Conference in Orlando, FL is coming up and they've
> kindly offered a UG discount 
> Held in conjunction with the Web Design & Developer conference and
> Create Chaos, The Creative Suite Conference, October 13-16, is the
> premiere event for designers using Adobe Creative Suite. Experts will
> deliver in-depth sessions covering print-based, web, and mobile
> workflows, as well as XML and cross-media solutions. Whether you're
> looking to create reliable PDF documents or deliver interactive Flash or
> AJAX enabled websites, this is the place to be. 
> 
> Use the discount code JIPOREILD08 (Case Sensitive) while registering to
> receive 20% off of any multi-day conference registration. For more
> information and to register, go to:
> <http://www.mogo-media.com/conferences/the-creative-suite-conference/2008/orlando/>
> 
> 
> 
> DIY O'Reilly Gear
> Create Your Own Calendar, Shirt, Notebook, Poster...In just three easy
> steps you can create one of a kind calendars, greeting cards, keychains,
> luggage tags, magnets, mousepads, mugs, notebooks, postcards, posters,
> shirts, hoodies, and stickers adorned with your favorite O'Reilly
> animals.
> <http://www.qoop.com/photobooks/photofront/pub_store.php?pub_name=oreilly>
> 
> 
> ---------------------
> Blogs
> -------------------
> Open beats Closed: Best Buy's new APIs
> <http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/09/open-beats-closed-best-buys-ne.html>
> 
> Photoshop Elements 7: The Missing Manual Sneak Preview: Barbara
> Brundage's Top 10 Elements Tips
> <http://missingmanuals.com/pe7_brundage_tips.csp?CMP=NLC-mm_misclinks&ATT=cont2-Sep08>
> 
> Organizing Your iPhone
> <http://blogs.oreilly.com/iphone/2008/09/organizing-your-iphone.html>
> 
> A Creativity Category Is Born
> <http://blogs.oreilly.com/digitalmedia/2008/09/a-creativity-category-is-born.html>
> 
> Is Google Spreading Itself Too Thin?
> <http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/09/is-google-spreading-itself-too.html>
> 
> Quicken Can Help During Troubled Times--Bonnie Biafore's Top 10 Tips
> <http://fyi.oreilly.com/2008/09/quicken-smarts--bonnie-biafore.html>
> 
> Black Monday, 2008
> <http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2008/09/black-monday-2008.html>
> 
> Fun comparisons of Flex and Silverlight
> <http://www.insideria.com/2008/09/fun-comparisons-of-flex-and-si.html>
> 
> A Beginner's Introduction to Perl Web Programming
> <http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2008/09/a-beginners-introduction-to-pe.html>
> 
> Facebook Growth By Age Group: Share of College-Age Users is Declining
> <http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/09/facebook-growth-by-age-group-s.html>
> 
> 
> For more blogs, go to:
> <http://community.oreilly.com/>
> 
> Until next time--
> 
> Marsee Henon
> 



From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Thu Oct  9 17:39:52 2008
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:39:52 +1100
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Open Source Developers' Conference 2008 (OSDC 2008)
 Registrations now open
Message-ID: <48EEA458.1030500@perltraining.com.au>

OSDC 2008 Early Bird Registration is now open!

	Tuesday 2nd - Friday 5th December 2008
	SMC Conference and Function centre in the Sydney CBD

	Early bird finishes: 27th October 2008.  Book now:
	http://www.osdc.com.au/2008/registration/

Early Bird Registration for The Open Source Developers' Conference 2008 is now
open. OSDC 2008 is a conference run by open source developers, for developers
and business people. It covers numerous programming languages across a range
of operating systems, and related topics such as business processes,
licensing, and strategy. Talks vary from introductory pieces through to the
deeply technical. This year we have an exciting selection of presenters and
keynote speakers including:

  * Larry Wall, the creator of Perl
  * Chris DiBona, Open Source Progams Manager for Google
  * Andrew Tridgell, Founder, Samba Team
  * Anthony Baxter, Python Evangelist
  * Pia Waugh, Consultant, Waugh Partners

Check out the draft program: http://www.osdc.com.au/2008/papers/

The conference will be in Sydney during the first week of December (2nd - 5th),
and will be held at the SMC conference venue located in the Sydney CBD.

Please visit http://www.osdc.com.au/2008/registration/ to register.

Earlybird registration closes 27th October, 2008.

For more information about this event, please visit: http://www.osdc.com.au/.

	Regards,

	OSDC 2008 Organising Committee
_______________________________________________
Sydney-pm mailing list
Sydney-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sydney-pm


From grant at mclean.net.nz  Mon Oct 13 00:25:09 2008
From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:25:09 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meeting Tuesday evening
Message-ID: <1223882709.6545.8.camel@hoiho>

Hi Mongers

Once again I'm a bit late sending the reminder but there's a Perl
Mongers meeting this week.  Whether it's tonight or tomorrow may depend
on when you receive this, but either way it's Tuesday October 14th.

We have three talks lined up:

 * Andy Chilton - Perl Tidy
 * Grant McLean - Perl Objects with Moose
 * Martyn Smith - Standalone Web Servers

Usual place and time ...

  6:00pm Tuesday 14 October 2008
  Level 3, The building soon to be known as Catalyst House
  150 Willis Street
  Wellington

Please also have a think about what you might like to talk about next
month.

See you there
Grant



From grant at mclean.net.nz  Thu Oct 16 19:54:54 2008
From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 15:54:54 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meetings and stuff
Message-ID: <1224212094.12772.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>

Hi Mongers

I've finally put the slides up from Tuesday night's meeting ...

  http://wellington.pm.org/archive/

Thanks to Martyn and Andy for their talks.

*** WARNING WARNING WARNING ***

The next meeting will be one week earlier than usual, on the 4th of
November.  That means it's only three Tuesday's from now.

Chris Cormack has kindly volunteered to talk to us about his experiences
writing Perl on an international stage.

That means we have at least one speaking slot to fill or maybe room for
two short ones.  Reply to me or the list if you'd like to volunteer or
suggest a topic.

*** December Meeting ***

The last meeting of the year will be on the 9th of December.  This is
traditionally a social meeting rather than a technical one, so we'll
need to make the important decision about which pub to meet at.
Suggestions are welcome.

Cheers
Grant



From andychilton at gmail.com  Thu Oct 16 21:13:14 2008
From: andychilton at gmail.com (Andrew Chilton)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 17:13:14 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meetings and stuff
In-Reply-To: <1224212094.12772.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
References: <1224212094.12772.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
Message-ID: <a364f6fa0810162113h670d00e0u4c0ed57287a54c17@mail.gmail.com>

2008/10/17 Grant McLean <grant at mclean.net.nz>:
> Thanks to Martyn and Andy for their talks.

And as usual, you forgot to thank yourself for your talk, so I'll do
it for you. Thanks Grant.

BTW: we started using PerlTidy on our internal project today. Yes, it
does do some weird things but it's more good than bad so that's a
bonus. We haven't yet set it up as was suggested on Tuesday (as a
pre-commit which borks if it differs from the thing being checked in)
but once we have, I'll send that snippet to the list for anyone else
interested in it.

Cheers,
Andy


-- 
contact: Andrew Chilton
website: http://kapiti.geek.nz/

From richard at walnut.gen.nz  Sun Oct 26 20:38:22 2008
From: richard at walnut.gen.nz (Richard Hector)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:38:22 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] numeric types
Message-ID: <1225078702.4225.6.camel@diamond.lan.walnut.gen.nz>

Hi all,

I'm having a play with a database that involves money.

It seems that the proper thing to do is to use SQL's 'numeric' type,
which from the Postgres docs will preserve whatever numbers I give it
perfectly - it looks like it will be saved in BCD or similar to achieve
that.

However, I'm not sure that's so useful if whenever I transfer between a
Perl program and my DB, I'm converting it to a floating point number.

I'm not even clear that that's what will happen; it seems difficult to
work out how Perl has actually stored a given value; perhaps DBI returns
it as a string, which I can match and stick into a more complex data
structure that preserves the components?

How do I know what's happening, and how do I ensure that I'm getting
what I want?

Thanks,

Richard



From daniel at rimspace.net  Sun Oct 26 21:26:46 2008
From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:26:46 +1100
Subject: [Wellington-pm] numeric types
In-Reply-To: <1225078702.4225.6.camel@diamond.lan.walnut.gen.nz> (Richard
	Hector's message of "Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:38:22 +1300")
References: <1225078702.4225.6.camel@diamond.lan.walnut.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <8763nek6ih.fsf@rimspace.net>

Richard Hector <richard at walnut.gen.nz> writes:

> I'm having a play with a database that involves money.
>
> It seems that the proper thing to do is to use SQL's 'numeric' type,
> which from the Postgres docs will preserve whatever numbers I give it
> perfectly - it looks like it will be saved in BCD or similar to achieve
> that.

It doesn't matter what it does inside, but it has the correct property
of being an *exact* numeric type.

> However, I'm not sure that's so useful if whenever I transfer between
> a Perl program and my DB, I'm converting it to a floating point
> number.

Perl?  Use an exact numeric type, and do all your math with that.
Seriously, don't screw around with (inexact) floating point numbers and
money, because it makes baby accountants cry.

Specifically, see bigrat(3perl) for the easy path, or Math::BigRat for
the library that uses if you want to do it the hard way.[1]

> I'm not even clear that that's what will happen; it seems difficult to
> work out how Perl has actually stored a given value; perhaps DBI
> returns it as a string, which I can match and stick into a more
> complex data structure that preserves the components?

You can use Data::Dumper, or one of the non-bundled methods, to probe
what data type it is -- but, generally, it is fairly mutable.

Unfortunately DBD::Pg doesn't document handling of NUMERIC columns,
though it does note that it supports them for bind parameters, which is
a good start.

I strongly suspect it will return them as a string value, but don't have
time to test myself.  Perhaps you could, and let us know?

> How do I know what's happening, and how do I ensure that I'm getting
> what I want?

Hard work and enthusiasm.  You can probably derive appropriate black-box
testing from this: http://speleotrove.com/decimal/decifaq1.html#inexact

Otherwise, code inspection and care.  Check that DBD::Pg gives back
something you can use as an exact value, then make sure your ORM or
wrappers turn it into the right value. :)

'use bigrat' will be a big help in your code, though.

Regards,
        Daniel

Footnotes: 
[1]  ...or you only need it for a little bit of code. :)


From andrew at morphoss.com  Sun Oct 26 21:59:26 2008
From: andrew at morphoss.com (Andrew McMillan)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:59:26 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] numeric types
In-Reply-To: <1225078702.4225.6.camel@diamond.lan.walnut.gen.nz>
References: <1225078702.4225.6.camel@diamond.lan.walnut.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <1225083566.14860.16.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz>

On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 16:38 +1300, Richard Hector wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm having a play with a database that involves money.
> 
> It seems that the proper thing to do is to use SQL's 'numeric' type,
> which from the Postgres docs will preserve whatever numbers I give it
> perfectly - it looks like it will be saved in BCD or similar to achieve
> that.
> 
> However, I'm not sure that's so useful if whenever I transfer between a
> Perl program and my DB, I'm converting it to a floating point number.
> 
> I'm not even clear that that's what will happen; it seems difficult to
> work out how Perl has actually stored a given value; perhaps DBI returns
> it as a string, which I can match and stick into a more complex data
> structure that preserves the components?
> 
> How do I know what's happening, and how do I ensure that I'm getting
> what I want?

The underlying reason why numeric types are a Good Idea for accounting
applications is that when millions of dollars are involved, floating
point numbers can have rounding errors around the cents.

There are other ways to deal with this, too.  If you can reasonably
expect that the amounts involved will never be larger than $20 million,
then you can of course use integer numbers of cents.

In reality a double-precision floating point can accurately represent
much larger numbers than that before rounding errors will appear at the
cents level.

So, if (e.g.) you are calculating the interest on something, in perl,
and then rounding to an exact monetary amount (i.e. no partial cents)
before storing that in the database, your decision is extremely unlikely
to matter in the real world.

If you're working on something for banks to calculate the amount of
filthy lucre they want the taxpayer to front up for, so the shareholders
don't go broke, then you might want to consider using real numeric types
in your perl program, but it should be fine without them even then.

The important point is to eliminate the possibility of errors through
successive rounding by always explicitly rounding at (accounting)
transaction boundaries, which is normal accounting practice.  Your bank
balance does not, and will not ever, hold fractions of cents.

Cheers,
					Andrew.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
andrew (AT) morphoss (DOT) com                            +64(272)DEBIAN
                    You too can wear a nose mitten.
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From richard at walnut.gen.nz  Sun Oct 26 23:44:21 2008
From: richard at walnut.gen.nz (Richard Hector)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:44:21 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] numeric types
In-Reply-To: <8763nek6ih.fsf@rimspace.net>
References: <1225078702.4225.6.camel@diamond.lan.walnut.gen.nz>
	<8763nek6ih.fsf@rimspace.net>
Message-ID: <1225089861.4225.19.camel@diamond.lan.walnut.gen.nz>

On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 15:26 +1100, Daniel Pittman wrote:

> > However, I'm not sure that's so useful if whenever I transfer between
> > a Perl program and my DB, I'm converting it to a floating point
> > number.
> 
> Perl?  Use an exact numeric type, and do all your math with that.
> Seriously, don't screw around with (inexact) floating point numbers and
> money, because it makes baby accountants cry.

Sure. That's what I'm trying to do.

> Specifically, see bigrat(3perl) for the easy path, or Math::BigRat for
> the library that uses if you want to do it the hard way.[1]

That looks like it might be a nice way to store numbers, but I still
have the issue of how to get them out of the DB and into one of those
without converting to a float along the way.

> > I'm not even clear that that's what will happen; it seems difficult to
> > work out how Perl has actually stored a given value; perhaps DBI
> > returns it as a string, which I can match and stick into a more
> > complex data structure that preserves the components?
> 
> You can use Data::Dumper, or one of the non-bundled methods, to probe
> what data type it is -- but, generally, it is fairly mutable.

This is the core of my question, I think. I've done a few tests, and
Data::Dumper doesn't seem to display scalars any differently based on
their storage, as far as I can see. What are these 'non-bundled methods'
you're talking about?

> I strongly suspect it will return them as a string value, but don't have
> time to test myself.  Perhaps you could, and let us know?
> 
> > How do I know what's happening, and how do I ensure that I'm getting
> > what I want?
> 
> Hard work and enthusiasm.  You can probably derive appropriate black-box
> testing from this: http://speleotrove.com/decimal/decifaq1.html#inexact

Test by doing calculations and seeing what I get? I can see that that
could work, but I suspect conversions could happen in multiple places,
leading to ambiguity of my results.

Besides - I'm sure I've heard of built-in functionality that will tell
me what I've got; I just can't find it ...

Andrew: whether I actually need this is a separate issue, of course ...
but that speleotrove link gives examples of these issues showing up in
funny places.

I'm tempted to just store everything as pairs (numerator and
denominator) of integers. Seems much more precise than what SQL's
numeric type can offer. And if I can't get those numeric numbers in and
out of perl easily, then perhaps less work as well.

Richard



From daniel at rimspace.net  Mon Oct 27 04:08:06 2008
From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 22:08:06 +1100
Subject: [Wellington-pm] numeric types
In-Reply-To: <1225089861.4225.19.camel@diamond.lan.walnut.gen.nz> (Richard
	Hector's message of "Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:44:21 +1300")
References: <1225078702.4225.6.camel@diamond.lan.walnut.gen.nz>
	<8763nek6ih.fsf@rimspace.net>
	<1225089861.4225.19.camel@diamond.lan.walnut.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <87prlmuwh5.fsf@rimspace.net>

Richard Hector <richard at walnut.gen.nz> writes:
> On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 15:26 +1100, Daniel Pittman wrote:

[...]

>> Specifically, see bigrat(3perl) for the easy path, or Math::BigRat for
>> the library that uses if you want to do it the hard way.[1]
>
> That looks like it might be a nice way to store numbers, but I still
> have the issue of how to get them out of the DB and into one of those
> without converting to a float along the way.

bigrat overloads a whole bunch of stuff to magically use Math::BigRat
objects where appropriate -- since this is global, not limited to your
own module, this can transparently add rational number support outside
your namespace.

>> > I'm not even clear that that's what will happen; it seems difficult
>> > to work out how Perl has actually stored a given value; perhaps DBI
>> > returns it as a string, which I can match and stick into a more
>> > complex data structure that preserves the components?
>> 
>> You can use Data::Dumper, or one of the non-bundled methods, to probe
>> what data type it is -- but, generally, it is fairly mutable.
>
> This is the core of my question, I think. I've done a few tests, and
> Data::Dumper doesn't seem to display scalars any differently based on
> their storage, as far as I can see.  What are these 'non-bundled
> methods' you're talking about?

Devel::Peek, predominantly, which gives a lot of information about the
internals of the object.[1]  Possibly something like Devel::XRay to inspect
code flow, but I don't think that helps a lot.

Mostly, though, I would expect that you could find out most of what you
want (is this a rational or a float) using ref, which will return the
class of the rational, or '' for a normal float or int.

[...]

>> Hard work and enthusiasm.  You can probably derive appropriate black-box
>> testing from this: http://speleotrove.com/decimal/decifaq1.html#inexact
>
> Test by doing calculations and seeing what I get? I can see that that
> could work, but I suspect conversions could happen in multiple places,
> leading to ambiguity of my results.

Well, my expectation would be that you would inspect the DBD::Pg code,
and/or tested this, to determine what it returns.

The quick answer is: DBD::Pg, in the absence of any configuration,
returns values from a NUMERIC(10,2) column as strings, which you can
then convert to a Math::BigRat trivially, giving you the precision you
want.

[...]

> Andrew: whether I actually need this is a separate issue, of course
> ...  but that speleotrove link gives examples of these issues showing
> up in funny places.

*nod*  Personally, I think the cost of manually wrapping the column to a
Math::BigRat, or configuring your ORM to do so, is pretty low -- but
then you have to deal with getting that data back into PGSQL. :/

> I'm tempted to just store everything as pairs (numerator and
> denominator) of integers. Seems much more precise than what SQL's
> numeric type can offer.

The biggest advantage of using NUMERIC or DECIMAL is that you can use
the database safely to act on the data: SUM(numeric_column) works
correctly[2], where it wouldn't with something you wrote yourself.

If you treat the database as a storage system only, rather than doing
any calculation or comparison in it, then this might be fine...

> And if I can't get those numeric numbers in and out of perl easily,
> then perhaps less work as well.

They go in quite fine.  Back out is more difficult, because Math::BigRat
wants to output decimal and PGSql doesn't like that syntax by default
for numeric columns...

Regards,
        Daniel

Footnotes: 
[1]  Which, apparently, is a built-in module in 5.8.8, which says that
     I am getting forgetful in my old age.

[2]  As in, preserves accuracy.


From grant at mclean.net.nz  Mon Oct 27 16:40:12 2008
From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:40:12 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers in 1 week!
Message-ID: <1225150812.26883.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>

Hi Mongers

The next meeting of Wellington Perl Mongers is 1 week from today on
November 4th.  If that surprises you then it's possible you haven't been
paying attention :-)

Usual place and time ...

  6:00pm Tuesday 4 November 2008
  Level 3, The building soon to be known as Catalyst House
  150 Willis Street
  Wellington
  http://wellington.pm.org/

Chris Cormack has kindly volunteered to talk to us about his experiences
writing Perl on an international stage.

No one else has volunteered a talk or proposed a topic yet (and Andy has
claimed 'immunity' this month) so I'd be keen to hear from anyone who
has something to say.  Srdjan?

*** December Meeting ***

The last meeting of the year will be on the 9th of December.  This is
traditionally a social meeting rather than a technical one, so we'll
need to make the important decision about which pub to meet at.
Suggestions are welcome.

Cheers
Grant


From douglas at paradise.net.nz  Mon Oct 27 18:12:12 2008
From: douglas at paradise.net.nz (Douglas Bagnall)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:12:12 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers in 1 week!
In-Reply-To: <1225150812.26883.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
References: <1225150812.26883.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
Message-ID: <d24e24ab0810271812q25c6212cj1a048fb7b2d31259@mail.gmail.com>

>
> No one else has volunteered a talk or proposed a topic yet (and Andy has
> claimed 'immunity' this month) so I'd be keen to hear from anyone who
> has something to say.  Srdjan?
>

I could do a quick review of that Beautiful Code book.  Also I just
saw Srdjan and pressed him and it seems he has indeed got something to
say.

douglas

From srdjan at catalyst.net.nz  Mon Oct 27 18:41:51 2008
From: srdjan at catalyst.net.nz (Srdjan)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:41:51 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers in 1 week!
In-Reply-To: <d24e24ab0810271812q25c6212cj1a048fb7b2d31259@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1225150812.26883.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<d24e24ab0810271812q25c6212cj1a048fb7b2d31259@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49066DDF.8070302@catalyst.net.nz>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Lies. But I can come up with something if need be. A quick intro to Apache::Test?

Douglas Bagnall wrote:
>> No one else has volunteered a talk or proposed a topic yet (and Andy has
>> claimed 'immunity' this month) so I'd be keen to hear from anyone who
>> has something to say.  Srdjan?
>>
> 
> I could do a quick review of that Beautiful Code book.  Also I just
> saw Srdjan and pressed him and it seems he has indeed got something to
> say.
> 
> douglas
> _______________________________________________
> Wellington-pm mailing list
> Wellington-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm
> 
> 
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From grant at mclean.net.nz  Mon Oct 27 18:45:46 2008
From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:45:46 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers in 1 week!
In-Reply-To: <49066DDF.8070302@catalyst.net.nz>
References: <1225150812.26883.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<d24e24ab0810271812q25c6212cj1a048fb7b2d31259@mail.gmail.com>
	<49066DDF.8070302@catalyst.net.nz>
Message-ID: <1225158346.26883.24.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>

On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 14:41 +1300, Srdjan wrote:
> I can come up with something if need be. A quick intro to Apache::Test?

Excellent, consider yourself booked!

Cheers
Grant


From stephen at sydney.pm.org  Tue Oct 28 03:03:24 2008
From: stephen at sydney.pm.org (Stephen Steneker)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 21:03:24 +1100
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Open Source Developers' Conference 2008 --
	Earlybird registration closing this Friday
In-Reply-To: <48EEA458.1030500@perltraining.com.au>
References: <48EEA458.1030500@perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <9D1B8D00-38EA-4AAE-B769-ECC65493BBF5@sydney.pm.org>

OSDC 2008 Earlybird registration is closing this Friday!

Book by THIS FRIDAY to take advantage of earlybird pricing
and be part of the "best" open source developers conference
of the year.

http://www.osdc.com.au/2008/registration/index.html?ebc=1

The facts:

31st October        Earlybird registration closing

2nd December        Google Hackathon
3rd - 5th December  Conference Program
3rd December        Conference Dinner

Where is it:

  SMC Conference and Function Centre
  66 Goulburn St
  Sydney NSW 2000

The Main Conference

The Open Source Developers' Conference 2008 is a conference
run by open source developers, for developers and business
people. This year we have talks covering Apache, Java, Ruby,
Perl, PHP, Python, Testing and much more. Our keynote speakers
this year are:

* Larry Wall, the creator of Perl
* Chris DiBona, Open Source Programs Manager for Google
* Anthony Baxter, Python Evangelist
* Pia Waugh, Consultant, Waugh Partners
* Andrew Tridgell, Founder, Samba Team

Check out the program for more information:

http://www.osdc.com.au/2008/papers/index.html?ebc=1

Google Hackathon

The day before the main conference, there will be an optional
event. The Google Hackathon will consist of 3 coding workshops
during the day with attendance limited to a maximum of 100
people/workshop. To register for any of the workshops, you must
have registered for the 3 day OSDC 2008 main conference.

Thanks to our sponsors:
  Google, Corporate Express, Sun Microsystems,
  Strategic Data, Obsidian Consulting Group,
  IBM, Zacware/Freeway, ACS, Net Logistics, GROX,
  UTBox, Internode, Linux Magazine

Regards

Stephen Steneker
OSDC 2008 Committee
http://www.osdc.com.au/2008/

From sam at vilain.net  Tue Oct 28 08:19:38 2008
From: sam at vilain.net (Sam Vilain)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 08:19:38 -0700
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers in 1 week!
In-Reply-To: <1225150812.26883.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
References: <1225150812.26883.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
Message-ID: <1225207178.28299.14.camel@maia.lan>

On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 12:40 +1300, Grant McLean wrote:
> No one else has volunteered a talk or proposed a topic yet (and Andy has
> claimed 'immunity' this month) so I'd be keen to hear from anyone who
> has something to say.  Srdjan?

Anyone interested in seeing Rakudo in action?  I talked to Jerry briefly
about what's been happening recently and it's looking quite interesting.

Sam.


From srdjan at catalyst.net.nz  Tue Oct 28 13:07:05 2008
From: srdjan at catalyst.net.nz (Srdjan)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:07:05 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers in 1 week!
In-Reply-To: <1225207178.28299.14.camel@maia.lan>
References: <1225150812.26883.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<1225207178.28299.14.camel@maia.lan>
Message-ID: <490770E9.8030108@catalyst.net.nz>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Some Japanese martial art? Are we getting our arses kicked?

Sam Vilain wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 12:40 +1300, Grant McLean wrote:
>> No one else has volunteered a talk or proposed a topic yet (and Andy has
>> claimed 'immunity' this month) so I'd be keen to hear from anyone who
>> has something to say.  Srdjan?
> 
> Anyone interested in seeing Rakudo in action?  I talked to Jerry briefly
> about what's been happening recently and it's looking quite interesting.
> 
> Sam.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Wellington-pm mailing list
> Wellington-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm
> 
> 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFJB3DpZtcHxCitRpgRAtGgAKCoqFuliwBQtzrHEIGal1Zkb2nB9wCgv9tY
KU6bwSe78wUxhmyJSH2fqc4=
=kE44
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From sam at vilain.net  Tue Oct 28 18:02:43 2008
From: sam at vilain.net (Sam Vilain)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:02:43 -0700
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers in 1 week!
In-Reply-To: <490770E9.8030108@catalyst.net.nz>
References: <1225150812.26883.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<1225207178.28299.14.camel@maia.lan> <490770E9.8030108@catalyst.net.nz>
Message-ID: <1225242163.28299.53.camel@maia.lan>

On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 09:07 +1300, Srdjan wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Some Japanese martial art? Are we getting our arses kicked?

:) No, Rakudo is the Perl 6 implementation running on Parrot.  It's
approaching 1.0!

Sam


From grant at mclean.net.nz  Tue Oct 28 18:15:11 2008
From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:15:11 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers in 1 week!
In-Reply-To: <1225242163.28299.53.camel@maia.lan>
References: <1225150812.26883.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<1225207178.28299.14.camel@maia.lan> <490770E9.8030108@catalyst.net.nz>
	<1225242163.28299.53.camel@maia.lan>
Message-ID: <1225242911.30372.7.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>

I'm definitely interested in seeing Rakudo in action but I think we have
a full schedule for next week's meeting.

Sam if you don't mind, I'll keep you in mind for a meeting in the new
year.

Cheers
Grant

On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 18:02 -0700, Sam Vilain wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 09:07 +1300, Srdjan wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > Some Japanese martial art? Are we getting our arses kicked?
> 
> :) No, Rakudo is the Perl 6 implementation running on Parrot.  It's
> approaching 1.0!
> 
> Sam
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Wellington-pm mailing list
> Wellington-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm


From andrew at morphoss.com  Tue Oct 28 18:23:50 2008
From: andrew at morphoss.com (Andrew McMillan)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:23:50 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers in 1 week!
In-Reply-To: <1225242163.28299.53.camel@maia.lan>
	(sfid-20081029_140313_077271_180E3C4B)
References: <1225150812.26883.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<1225207178.28299.14.camel@maia.lan> <490770E9.8030108@catalyst.net.nz>
	<1225242163.28299.53.camel@maia.lan>
	(sfid-20081029_140313_077271_180E3C4B)
Message-ID: <1225243430.14860.73.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz>

On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 18:02 -0700, Sam Vilain wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 09:07 +1300, Srdjan wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > Some Japanese martial art? Are we getting our arses kicked?
> 
> :) No, Rakudo is the Perl 6 implementation running on Parrot.  It's
> approaching 1.0!

Any idea when it will get to 6.0?

:-)
					Andrew.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
andrew (AT) morphoss (DOT) com                            +64(272)DEBIAN
               Everything will be just tickety-boo today.
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From dave at thinktank.co.nz  Wed Oct 29 16:43:17 2008
From: dave at thinktank.co.nz (Dave Moskovitz)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:43:17 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] AJAX and Catalyst.pm
Message-ID: <200810301243.18067.dave@thinktank.co.nz>

One of my clients has asked me to add some AJAX eye-candy to a Catalyst.pm 
app ... does anyone have good success stories with any particular framework 
(eg Dojo, Prototype, ExtJS, etc) ?

Thanks in advance
Dave
-- 
Dave Moskovitz
Director, Thinktank Consulting Limited
dave at thinktank.co.nz / Tel +64 27 220 2202

From grant at mclean.net.nz  Wed Oct 29 17:00:25 2008
From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:00:25 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] AJAX and Catalyst.pm
In-Reply-To: <200810301243.18067.dave@thinktank.co.nz>
References: <200810301243.18067.dave@thinktank.co.nz>
Message-ID: <1225324826.10882.14.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>

Hi Dave

On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 12:43 +1300, Dave Moskovitz wrote:
> One of my clients has asked me to add some AJAX eye-candy to a Catalyst.pm 
> app ... does anyone have good success stories with any particular framework 
> (eg Dojo, Prototype, ExtJS, etc) ?

I have used Prototype and was quite happy until my code didn't work in
new browsers (FF3 maybe IE8).  This happened because Prototype was
polluting global namespaces to add methods to all elements/objects.
Some of these method names ended up colliding with new DOM methods which
didn't do exactly what the Prototype methods did.  The 'fix' would have
been to upgrade to the latest Prototype but apart from the fact that I
had to update my code for renamed methods, other bits of the API had
changed as well in more subtle ways and I never managed to make it work.

More recently I have been using JQuery because smart people say it's
good and it doesn't have the namespace pollution problems of Prototype.
I've only done small things with JQuery so far but they've all worked.

Cheers
Grant


From martyn at catalyst.net.nz  Wed Oct 29 17:15:38 2008
From: martyn at catalyst.net.nz (Martyn Smith)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:15:38 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] AJAX and Catalyst.pm
In-Reply-To: <1225324826.10882.14.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
References: <200810301243.18067.dave@thinktank.co.nz>
	<1225324826.10882.14.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20081030001538.GN15803@catalyst.net.nz>

I also vote for jQuery :-)

It is really well documented at jquery.com, and I believe has a fancy UI
layer that provides lots of nifty effects.

Additionally it has a nice simple plugin API, and many people have written
plugins to do all sorts of things (chances are the thing you want to do
already exists as a plugin) :-)

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 01:00:25PM +1300, Grant McLean wrote:
> Hi Dave
> 
> On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 12:43 +1300, Dave Moskovitz wrote:
> > One of my clients has asked me to add some AJAX eye-candy to a Catalyst.pm 
> > app ... does anyone have good success stories with any particular framework 
> > (eg Dojo, Prototype, ExtJS, etc) ?
> 
> I have used Prototype and was quite happy until my code didn't work in
> new browsers (FF3 maybe IE8).  This happened because Prototype was
> polluting global namespaces to add methods to all elements/objects.
> Some of these method names ended up colliding with new DOM methods which
> didn't do exactly what the Prototype methods did.  The 'fix' would have
> been to upgrade to the latest Prototype but apart from the fact that I
> had to update my code for renamed methods, other bits of the API had
> changed as well in more subtle ways and I never managed to make it work.
> 
> More recently I have been using JQuery because smart people say it's
> good and it doesn't have the namespace pollution problems of Prototype.
> I've only done small things with JQuery so far but they've all worked.
> 
> Cheers
> Grant
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Wellington-pm mailing list
> Wellington-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm
> 

-- 
Martyn Smith

Senior Developer
Catalyst IT
http://www.catalyst.net.nz

DDI: +64 4 802 0420
Mail: martyn at catalyst.net.nz

From finlay at scoop.co.nz  Wed Oct 29 17:20:28 2008
From: finlay at scoop.co.nz (Finlay Thompson)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:20:28 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] AJAX and Catalyst.pm
In-Reply-To: <20081030001538.GN15803@catalyst.net.nz>
References: <200810301243.18067.dave@thinktank.co.nz>
	<1225324826.10882.14.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<20081030001538.GN15803@catalyst.net.nz>
Message-ID: <1225326028.7953.25.camel@korora.yorkbay.net.nz>

One more vote for jQuery from me.

Especially important is the large market share that it now has, which
means that it has lots of third party plugins, and gets lots of love
from the core development people.

It also has an interesting approach to event driven programming. I added
some fancy key bindings to a form and it was as easy as writing CSS.

Finlay


On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 13:15 +1300, Martyn Smith wrote:
> I also vote for jQuery :-)
> 
> It is really well documented at jquery.com, and I believe has a fancy UI
> layer that provides lots of nifty effects.
> 
> Additionally it has a nice simple plugin API, and many people have written
> plugins to do all sorts of things (chances are the thing you want to do
> already exists as a plugin) :-)
> 
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 01:00:25PM +1300, Grant McLean wrote:
> > Hi Dave
> > 
> > On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 12:43 +1300, Dave Moskovitz wrote:
> > > One of my clients has asked me to add some AJAX eye-candy to a Catalyst.pm 
> > > app ... does anyone have good success stories with any particular framework 
> > > (eg Dojo, Prototype, ExtJS, etc) ?
> > 
> > I have used Prototype and was quite happy until my code didn't work in
> > new browsers (FF3 maybe IE8).  This happened because Prototype was
> > polluting global namespaces to add methods to all elements/objects.
> > Some of these method names ended up colliding with new DOM methods which
> > didn't do exactly what the Prototype methods did.  The 'fix' would have
> > been to upgrade to the latest Prototype but apart from the fact that I
> > had to update my code for renamed methods, other bits of the API had
> > changed as well in more subtle ways and I never managed to make it work.
> > 
> > More recently I have been using JQuery because smart people say it's
> > good and it doesn't have the namespace pollution problems of Prototype.
> > I've only done small things with JQuery so far but they've all worked.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > Grant
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wellington-pm mailing list
> > Wellington-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm
> > 
> 


From daniel at rimspace.net  Wed Oct 29 17:28:27 2008
From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:28:27 +1100
Subject: [Wellington-pm] AJAX and Catalyst.pm
In-Reply-To: <1225324826.10882.14.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> (Grant
	McLean's message of "Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:00:25 +1300")
References: <200810301243.18067.dave@thinktank.co.nz>
	<1225324826.10882.14.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87fxmforis.fsf@rimspace.net>

Grant McLean <grant at mclean.net.nz> writes:
> On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 12:43 +1300, Dave Moskovitz wrote:
>
>> One of my clients has asked me to add some AJAX eye-candy to a
>> Catalyst.pm app ... does anyone have good success stories with any
>> particular framework (eg Dojo, Prototype, ExtJS, etc) ?

[...]

> More recently I have been using JQuery because smart people say it's
> good and it doesn't have the namespace pollution problems of
> Prototype.  I've only done small things with JQuery so far but they've
> all worked.

Let me echo this: jQuery has been great for me, and is both broadly
supported and easy to extend with additional features that you need.

It also has the advantage of broad industry support, with both Nokia and
Microsoft committing to it as a platform, in addition to other open
supporters.


If you were looking to build a JavaScript *application*[1] rather than
enhance a standard web application then the YUI framework is excellent.

Regards,
        Daniel

Footnotes: 
[1]  The sort of thing where you build it like a desktop application,
     only it happens to run inside a web browser.


From andychilton at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 17:57:43 2008
From: andychilton at gmail.com (Andrew Chilton)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:57:43 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] AJAX and Catalyst.pm
In-Reply-To: <87fxmforis.fsf@rimspace.net>
References: <200810301243.18067.dave@thinktank.co.nz>
	<1225324826.10882.14.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<87fxmforis.fsf@rimspace.net>
Message-ID: <a364f6fa0810291757y3e60391br690c2c26bd6dfb7d@mail.gmail.com>

2008/10/30 Daniel Pittman <daniel at rimspace.net>:
> Let me echo this: jQuery has been great for me, and is both broadly
> supported and easy to extend with additional features that you need.

Another one for jQuery. It looks like it is unanimous. Not only is it
nice but again the plugins are simple and usually work (which is more
than you can say of other toolkits). And there are lots of them.

I switched from MochiKit since that was unloved and ended up being
unsupported. I've used Prototype in the past but didn't like it
because of the problems Grant said.

Andy

-- 
contact: Andrew Chilton
website: http://kapiti.geek.nz/

From matt at catalyst.net.nz  Thu Oct 30 17:17:40 2008
From: matt at catalyst.net.nz (Matthew Hunt)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:17:40 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meetings and stuff
In-Reply-To: <1224212094.12772.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
References: <1224212094.12772.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
Message-ID: <490A4EA4.5070901@catalyst.net.nz>

Grant McLean wrote:
> *** December Meeting ***
> 
> The last meeting of the year will be on the 9th of December.  This is
> traditionally a social meeting rather than a technical one, so we'll
> need to make the important decision about which pub to meet at.
> Suggestions are welcome.

I suggest we meet at J J Murphy.  It is suitably dingy and sells cold
beer in large glasses.

 http://www.jjmurphy.co.nz/

The one slight cloud on the horizon is that Wednesday might be when they
have their happy hour.  I quote:

 "Wed Happy Hour 6-9.....Live Music from 9pm.  2 for 1 bubbles $3 shots,
  $7 Jagermister and SHOT, $7 Vodka & SHOT, $7 Melon & SHOT"

It doesn't sound entirely happy to me, and it's not clear if you get the
whole melon, nor what caliber of SHOT they're giving you for $7.

Cheers,

Matt.
-- 
Matthew Hunt
Catalyst IT Limited, PO Box 11053, Wellington 6142

From martyn at catalyst.net.nz  Thu Oct 30 17:20:10 2008
From: martyn at catalyst.net.nz (Martyn Smith)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:20:10 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meetings and stuff
In-Reply-To: <490A4EA4.5070901@catalyst.net.nz>
References: <1224212094.12772.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<490A4EA4.5070901@catalyst.net.nz>
Message-ID: <20081031002010.GR15803@catalyst.net.nz>

Hopefully not shot like "with a gun" :-)

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 01:17:40PM +1300, Matthew Hunt wrote:
> Grant McLean wrote:
> > *** December Meeting ***
> > 
> > The last meeting of the year will be on the 9th of December.  This is
> > traditionally a social meeting rather than a technical one, so we'll
> > need to make the important decision about which pub to meet at.
> > Suggestions are welcome.
> 
> I suggest we meet at J J Murphy.  It is suitably dingy and sells cold
> beer in large glasses.
> 
>  http://www.jjmurphy.co.nz/
> 
> The one slight cloud on the horizon is that Wednesday might be when they
> have their happy hour.  I quote:
> 
>  "Wed Happy Hour 6-9.....Live Music from 9pm.  2 for 1 bubbles $3 shots,
>   $7 Jagermister and SHOT, $7 Vodka & SHOT, $7 Melon & SHOT"
> 
> It doesn't sound entirely happy to me, and it's not clear if you get the
> whole melon, nor what caliber of SHOT they're giving you for $7.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Matt.
> -- 
> Matthew Hunt
> Catalyst IT Limited, PO Box 11053, Wellington 6142
> _______________________________________________
> Wellington-pm mailing list
> Wellington-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm
> 

-- 
Martyn Smith

Senior Developer
Catalyst IT
http://www.catalyst.net.nz

DDI: +64 4 802 0420
Mail: martyn at catalyst.net.nz

From grant at mclean.net.nz  Thu Oct 30 17:32:38 2008
From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:32:38 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meetings and stuff
In-Reply-To: <490A4EA4.5070901@catalyst.net.nz>
References: <1224212094.12772.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<490A4EA4.5070901@catalyst.net.nz>
Message-ID: <1225413159.4325.2.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>

On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 13:17 +1300, Matthew Hunt wrote:
> Grant McLean wrote:
> > we'll need to make the important decision about which pub to meet at.
> > Suggestions are welcome.
> 
> I suggest we meet at J J Murphy.  It is suitably dingy and sells cold
> beer in large glasses.

Excellent suggestion - I happen to be a big fan of the Murphy's.

Cheers
Grant


From andychilton at gmail.com  Thu Oct 30 17:36:19 2008
From: andychilton at gmail.com (Andrew Chilton)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:36:19 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meetings and stuff
In-Reply-To: <490A4EA4.5070901@catalyst.net.nz>
References: <1224212094.12772.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<490A4EA4.5070901@catalyst.net.nz>
Message-ID: <a364f6fa0810301736w4609e04fofb773fce8d9e808e@mail.gmail.com>

2008/10/31 Matthew Hunt <matt at catalyst.net.nz>:
> The one slight cloud on the horizon is that Wednesday might be when they
> have their happy hour.

Are we meeting on Wednesday? Don't we usually meet Tuesdays or did I
miss something? The Tuesday is quiz night :-)

Andy

-- 
contact: Andrew Chilton
website: http://kapiti.geek.nz/

From srdjan at catalyst.net.nz  Thu Oct 30 17:39:03 2008
From: srdjan at catalyst.net.nz (Srdjan)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:39:03 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meetings and stuff
In-Reply-To: <20081031002010.GR15803@catalyst.net.nz>
References: <1224212094.12772.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>	<490A4EA4.5070901@catalyst.net.nz>
	<20081031002010.GR15803@catalyst.net.nz>
Message-ID: <490A53A7.6060506@catalyst.net.nz>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Like is there any other way?

Martyn Smith wrote:
> Hopefully not shot like "with a gun" :-)
> 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFJClOnZtcHxCitRpgRAiZfAJ9g5ImibQ1MKcZAtWnksB6gmJL0AACfZgB4
zJKVCzzHa0+C2B9UIlxvYk8=
=0KsL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From matt at catalyst.net.nz  Thu Oct 30 17:43:45 2008
From: matt at catalyst.net.nz (Matthew Hunt)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:43:45 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meetings and stuff
In-Reply-To: <490A53A7.6060506@catalyst.net.nz>
References: <1224212094.12772.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>	<490A4EA4.5070901@catalyst.net.nz>	<20081031002010.GR15803@catalyst.net.nz>
	<490A53A7.6060506@catalyst.net.nz>
Message-ID: <490A54C1.6030701@catalyst.net.nz>

Srdjan wrote:
> Like is there any other way?

A crossbow?

Matt.
-- 
Matthew Hunt
Catalyst IT Limited, PO Box 11053, Wellington 6142


From grant at mclean.net.nz  Thu Oct 30 17:46:26 2008
From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:46:26 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meetings and stuff
In-Reply-To: <a364f6fa0810301736w4609e04fofb773fce8d9e808e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1224212094.12772.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
	<490A4EA4.5070901@catalyst.net.nz>
	<a364f6fa0810301736w4609e04fofb773fce8d9e808e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1225413987.4325.6.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>

On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 13:36 +1300, Andrew Chilton wrote:
> 2008/10/31 Matthew Hunt <matt at catalyst.net.nz>:
> > The one slight cloud on the horizon is that Wednesday might be when they
> > have their happy hour.
> 
> Are we meeting on Wednesday? Don't we usually meet Tuesdays or did I
> miss something? The Tuesday is quiz night :-)

You are completely correct.  The meeting will be on Tuesday December
9th.  The Wednesday night happy hour is less relevant than Matt may have
imagined.

Grant


From dave at thinktank.co.nz  Thu Oct 30 21:24:13 2008
From: dave at thinktank.co.nz (Dave Moskovitz)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:24:13 +1300
Subject: [Wellington-pm] AJAX and Catalyst.pm
In-Reply-To: <1225326028.7953.25.camel@korora.yorkbay.net.nz>
References: <200810301243.18067.dave@thinktank.co.nz>
	<20081030001538.GN15803@catalyst.net.nz>
	<1225326028.7953.25.camel@korora.yorkbay.net.nz>
Message-ID: <200810311724.14286.dave@thinktank.co.nz>

Thanks to everyone who replied to my request ... I have to say that I've never 
seen such unanimity in the Perl world!

I've read over the doco, and jQuery looks lovely, so away I go.

Thanks again
Dave


-- 
Dave Moskovitz
Director, Thinktank Consulting Limited
dave at thinktank.co.nz / Tel +64 27 220 2202