From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Sat Sep 1 18:16:14 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 18:16:14 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Tue, 2007 Sep 4th, 7:00pm - September RCSS meeting Message-ID: This message is forwarded from the Recreational Computer Science Society mailing list. -- Darren Duncan ------------- Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 17:33:01 -0700 From: "Peter van Hardenberg" To: reccompsci at googlegroups.com Subject: [reccompsci] September RCSS meeting Mailing-List: list reccompsci at googlegroups.com; contact reccompsci-owner at googlegroups.com List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: , Hi everyone, The RCSS meeting is upon us once again. Here's the run down for this month. Nigel Horspool will be presenting something on his research, though I'm not sure what yet. His primary interest is in Java compilers, so I imagine it will be something at least tangentially related to that. Also, if you haven't been surfing under a rock, you've probably seen the Seam Carving image resizing algorithm. It's been making the rounds on all the usual websites and was the belle of the ball at this year's SIGGRAPH. The Actual Paper is at [1]. I'll give a quick overview of the algorithm and then we can talk about it. Also, if you haven't seen the video yet, it's at [2] and is much more entertaining than you would expect. MEETING DETAILS: Tuesday, September 4th, 7:00PM. ECS 104 (last lecture hall to your left on ground floor if you enter ECS from outside ring road) Hope everyone enjoyed their summer -- it seems that its end is upon us. Soon the day star will be escaping to more southern climes and we'll all be hiding from the rain for months on end. All the more time for computer science, so, see you all on Tuesday! -p [1] http://www.faculty.idc.ac.il/arik/imret.pdf [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NcIJXTlugc -- Peter van Hardenberg Victoria, BC, Canada "Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt." -- Kurt Vonnegut --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Recreational Computer Science Society" group. To post to this group, send email to reccompsci at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to reccompsci-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/reccompsci?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Tue Sep 4 16:19:22 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 16:19:22 -0700 Subject: [VPM] POSTPONED - Sept RCSS Meeting to Tuesday, Sept 18th Message-ID: This message is forwarded from the Recreational Computer Science Society mailing list. -- Darren Duncan P.S. I apologize for only noticing this post now, 5 hours after it was sent, and less than 3 hours before the old meeting time. Hopefully any interested people will see this in time, so they don't show up with nothing happening. ------------- Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 11:29:18 -0700 From: "Peter van Hardenberg" To: reccompsci at googlegroups.com, "Nigel Horspool" Subject: [reccompsci] September RCSS Meeting POSTPONED to Tuesday, September 18th Mailing-List: list reccompsci at googlegroups.com; contact reccompsci-owner at googlegroups.com List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: , Hi everyone, I am going to postpone the RCSS meeting by two weeks. This will allow those who are returning to campus to settle in to again before the meeting, and also has the distinct added benefit of making it possible for our guest speaker to attend. Time and location stay the same -- but the meeting is now Tuesday, September 18th. See you there, -pvh -- Peter van Hardenberg Victoria, BC, Canada "Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt." -- Kurt Vonnegut --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Recreational Computer Science Society" group. To post to this group, send email to reccompsci at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to reccompsci-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/reccompsci?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Fri Sep 14 20:59:32 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:59:32 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Tue, 2007 Sep 18th, 7:00pm - Nigel Horspool: A New Age for Code Optimization Message-ID: This message is forwarded from the Recreational Computer Science Society mailing list. -- Darren Duncan ------------- Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:41:11 -0700 From: "Peter van Hardenberg" To: reccompsci at googlegroups.com Subject: [reccompsci] September 18th -- Nigel Horspool: A New Age for Code Optimization Mailing-List: list reccompsci at googlegroups.com; contact reccompsci-owner at googlegroups.com List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: , Hi everyone, I got an abstract for Dr. Horspool's talk today. The talk is directed at a general computer science audience -- no experience with compiler theory will be expected of you. Abstract follows. See you on Tuesday Sept. 18th, 7PM, ECS104. -pvh ----------------- A New Age for Code Optimization Nigel Horspool Professor, Department of Computer Science, University of Victoria Abstract When high-level programming languages were first introduced, programmers were concerned that programs would not execute as efficiently as their hand-written assembly language counterparts. The development of optimizing compilers, beginning with IBM's Fortran compilers, did much to allay that fear. Over the years, ever more optimizations have been developed and incorporated into compilers, leading people to believe that code optimization was becoming a dead subject. The widespread use of Java, and similar languages like C#, has changed all that. The Java compiler translates the classes of a program into bytecode files, and those bytecode files are executed by the Java Virtual Machine (JVM). The opportunities for optimizing bytecode are very limited. However, the JVM has the opportunity to monitor the executing program. Such monitoring allows the JVM to concentrate on the 10% of the program where 90% of the execution time is spent, and to generate optimized machine code for those parts of the program. The JVM has an even bigger advantage. It can observe what values are actually being passed as parameters to methods and what values are held by variables. Then this knowledge allows even better code to be generated. This feedback directed optimization (FDO) approach is making Java code as fast as code written in any programming language, and sometimes much faster. This talk will introduce FDO and will describe a new optimization for Java programs which enables them to execute the Visitor pattern more efficiently. -- Peter van Hardenberg Victoria, BC, Canada "Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt." -- Kurt Vonnegut --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Recreational Computer Science Society" group. To post to this group, send email to reccompsci at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to reccompsci-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/reccompsci?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Peter at PSDT.com Tue Sep 25 07:58:00 2007 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 07:58:00 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> Hi. It's been ... a while since we met. UVic was a great place to meet. Do we have anyone who can secure a room for us there, or any suggestions for somewhere else to meet (that you know you can gain access to)? News from OSCON is that the authors are starting the Perl 6 books (Learning, Programming)... no promises on the release date for Perl 6 itself but the books will take about 6 months to write and 3 months for O'Reilly to produce. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/ From mock at obscurity.org Tue Sep 25 10:42:47 2007 From: mock at obscurity.org (mock) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:42:47 +0000 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> Message-ID: <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 07:58:00AM -0700, Peter Scott wrote: > Hi. It's been ... a while since we met. UVic was a great place to > meet. Do we have anyone who can secure a room for us there, or any > suggestions for somewhere else to meet (that you know you can gain access to)? > Enquisite, where I work, is willing to host a meeting. They have a room with a projector available. > News from OSCON is that the authors are starting the Perl 6 books > (Learning, Programming)... no promises on the release date for Perl 6 > itself but the books will take about 6 months to write and 3 months for > O'Reilly to produce. I didn't quite get that level of optimism when I was at YAPC::EU, but things do seem to be steadily moving along. Speaking of which, I have a couple of 20 minute talks that I did there if we're casting about for speakers. mock From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Tue Sep 25 13:13:58 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:13:58 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> Message-ID: At 5:42 PM +0000 9/25/07, mock wrote: >On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 07:58:00AM -0700, Peter Scott wrote: >> Hi. It's been ... a while since we met. UVic was a great place to >> meet. Do we have anyone who can secure a room for us there, or any > > suggestions for somewhere else to meet (that you know you can >gain access to)? Although it isn't all Perl, I will think we can timeslice with RCSS, who have a meeting room every month at UVIC. That said ... >Enquisite, where I work, is willing to host a meeting. They have a room with >a projector available. I would be happy with this arrangement too. And I would be interested in visiting the Enquisite site (205-3347 Oak Street, just north of Mayfair?). > > News from OSCON is that the authors are starting the Perl 6 books >> (Learning, Programming)... no promises on the release date for Perl 6 >> itself but the books will take about 6 months to write and 3 months for >> O'Reilly to produce. > >I didn't quite get that level of optimism when I was at YAPC::EU, but things >do seem to be steadily moving along. Speaking of which, I have a couple of >20 minute talks that I did there if we're casting about for speakers. As I mentioned to the RCSS people a week ago, I believe that starting with their next meeting (probably, Tue, Oct 2), I can give short (eg, 30m) talks each month on Muldis DB, which is now complete enough to be reasonably talked about, with examples of how to use. The first talk(s) won't have powerpoint, but I could demo it using a computer hookup or on the whiteboard. Initially I thought it best that I wouldn't headline a meeting, another talk does that, but mine would be an additional talk to fill time. I can do likewise for Victoria.pm meetings, or if I'm far enough along, actually headline myself. But I recommend that our first next meeting be headlined by someone else, such as whatever you guys wanted to do. I'm assuming that it is too late for us to gather tonight, too late a notice, but we don't necessarily have to wait until the third tuesday of October to meet ... depends if either a non-tuesday is okay, or if there isn't crossover with VLUG (I won't leave RCSS though). If we change day of week, at least once, this wednesday / tomorrow would be a conflict. -- Darren Duncan From semaphore_2000 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 25 14:44:03 2007 From: semaphore_2000 at yahoo.com (Doug Snead) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [VPM] fyi: perl push-to-talk Message-ID: <825346.17295.qm@web36214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> FYI, Here's a little something I have been playing with recently: Simple half-duplex intercom-like secure voice in Perl http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=639207 Comments welcome. Doug ____________________________________________________________________________________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Tue Sep 25 15:31:36 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:31:36 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Summary of Muldis DB updates since June 21st Message-ID: To the Victoria.pm and RCSS groups, The only last time I made an official Muldis DB release announcement to Victoria.pm and RCSS was on 2007 June 21st, for the first CPAN release of Muldis DB for Perl 5, which was a wide announcement to a dozen-plus forums. Since then, I made 16 additional CPAN releases, but only announced them to a select handful of lists (the 3 Muldis-DB lists, the TTM list, and the DBIx-Class list), while others may just notice the releases in the CPAN feeds. Since it is probably imminent that I will start giving talks to Victoria.pm and RCSS about this (initially secondary/time-filling talks; RCSS first, on October 2nd, probably), I've decided to now send you a summary of what changed with Muldis DB since the release zero, so you are more up to date and can know better what questions to ask or whatever at the meetings (or on the list before that). ---------- 1. The language specification for Muldis D has been separated into its own version control and its own line of CPAN releases, under the package name Language::MuldisD. The twin Perl 5 and Perl 6 implementations of this language, Muldis DB, are maintained and distributed separately, the first under the package name Muldis::DB, and the latter is bundled with Perl6::Pugs (not yet released on CPAN). See http://search.cpan.org/dist/Language-MuldisD/ for the language spec. See http://search.cpan.org/dist/Muldis-DB/ for the implementation in Perl 5. The Language-MuldisD distro started with what was initially the Language.pod file of release zero, plus half of SeeAlso.pod; the post-split Muldis-DB distro had all the other lib/ files and remaining half of SeeAlso. This separation was done to encourage treatment of the above 2 things as distinct entities, with the emphasis placed on having the Muldis D langauge get adopted and implemented for database work, regardless of whether the implementation that ends up the most popular is the one I make. Over time I hope that Muldis D will have implementations over many programming languages or environments. I'm making mine (Muldis DB) in Perl because that's what I know and have found it very suitable for the task, prototyping in particular. (As an analogy, SQL is its own separate language spec, with multiple implementations by various projects.) ---------- 2. The license for Muldis DB itself has been changed to the LGPLv3+ from the GPLv3+, both the whole core, plus most extensions that I expect to start. All other things being equal, hopefully this change will encourage more update of and contributions to the project. Unchanged from before, any contributions I make to existing projects, such as DBIx-Class, to help them work with Muldis DB, will be under the existing license of that project being enabled. The Muldis D language spec remains GPLv3+, but that shouldn't cause any issues since it is all documentation and no one would be making a combined work of the documentation, save to extend the spec, and aggregation is allowed anyway. ---------- 3. The Muldis D language spec, which was a single file (Language.pod) in June, has been split into multiple files, currently 7 (MuldisD.pm, Basics.pod, Core.pod, Grammar.pod, PerlHosted.pod, Temporal.pod, Spatial.pod), and has been greatly fleshed out and/or modified. (Basics.pod) The DBMS entity namespace has been reorganized. (Core.pod) More system-defined data types have been added and/or made core, including the ordered role, and rational numbers. (Core.pod) A full complement of system-defined operators/routines have been added, with signatures and descriptions. There are over a hundred I think. (Basics.pod, Grammar.pod, PerlHosted.pod) Muldis D now has 2 distinct formats, called Concrete and Abstract. Concrete is a string-form that you use if treating Muldis D like an ordinary self-hosted language (such as if you make a Parrot compiler for it), and Abstract is like an AST that you use either when doing runtime data-definition in Muldis D, or you are using Muldis D hosted over another language like Perl. Note that the MuldisD.pm file is only a .pm (containing an empty Perl package) rather than a .pod in order to help the CPAN indexer treat the all-documentation distro somewhat properly. ---------- 4. The AST-like Perl Hosted (Abstract) flavor of Muldis D, described in PerlHosted.pod, is being put forward as my recommendation for a defacto standard Perl AST for use by database-centric Perl modules in general for their use in specifying database queries, data-manipulation, data-definition, etc. There is already a stated demand for a better AST format to replace ones like SQL::Abstract's input format, that the creators of DBIx-Class and other object persistence or database abstraction tools are using to generate SQL and such behind the scenes, and sometimes expose to through their own APIs. Existing things like SQL::Abstract were very limited when it came to wanting to represent many kinds of common, or less common, SQL constructs, and often users had to either do without or resort to cludges or raw SQL. The desired replacement would do away with such problems. I have adopted the basic principles of what the CPAN authors were discussing for the form of an AST, such as being composed of just trees of Perl array-refs, hash-refs, scalars etc, no piles of objects etc, and made a representation of Muldis D with these qualifications. Since Muldis D in general can represent any reasonable SQL construct elegantly, hence so can this AST based on it. Also, because Perl Hosted Muldis D is composed purely of plain Perl data structures, no common Perl module is needed to compose it from, and no related bottleneck or possible license hangups due to dependency on said module. Moreover, if this AST is a common documented standard, then presumably any of its users could be interchangeable for each other, and that reduces possible matters of whether works are dependent on or derived works of others, as legal/license matters are concerned with. ---------- 5. The Muldis DB API (Interface.pm) has been rewritten, and other files (DB.pm, Validator.pm, Example.pm and its support files) updated to conform. The replaced interface definition is also fully documented. While the original Muldis DB Interface classes created a buffer between applications and Engines, doing some input checking for the latter and some output checking for the latter, the new Muldis DB Interface is simply a thin role definition, which each Engine implements, and so applications now talk to Engines directly; the Interface just says that the Engine does a particular role/interface. The removal of the intermediary should improve performance, and also give the Engine more flexibility as to how it does input checking. Unchanged is that exceptions are always thrown to indicate errors, with no exceptions indicating success. The Muldis DB API now takes Perl-Hosted Muldis D (perl array-refs etc) as input and returns such as output, both for representing data and code; it does this instead of using trees of AST.pm/Literal.pm objects, and AST.pm went away. This change both greatly increases brevity of user Perl code, and presumably performance. The Muldis DB API is longer based around distinct prepare and execute of anonymous statements like DBI does. Rather, the API is based on calls to named routines, system-defined and user-defined. So DBI's prepare() is replaced with invoking call_proc() on a system-defined data-definition procedure, giving it PHMD structures (analagous to SQL statements) as input, from which it makes a named procedure. Then DBI's execute() is replaced with invoking call_proc() again this time to the new user-defined routine. Bind vars on the latter invocation either carry input or carry the query results. Invoking database stored procedures is doable with just the latter step alone. Muldis DB is designed essentially to make it look like you have an ordinary application whose components may be written in several languages, one happening to be good at database stuff. For example, like a Perl program for which some components are written in C. In this case, replace C with Muldis D. So its API is fundamentally around invoking routines, sort of like they were Perl routines but not actually. I anticipate that somebody's wrapper for Muldis DB will make it so you actually are using the syntax to invoke Perl routines, perhaps because it manipulated the Perl symbol table to make this work (Muldis DB itself doesn't). ---------- 6. There is now some example use code of Muldis DB, both in the SYNOPSIS docs of Interface.pm, and in the source code of Validator.pm. The latter is a more realistic example, "find suppliers of orange-colored foods". ---------- 7. All this said, the current Muldis DB Example Engine isn't capable of doing any work yet, so you can't actually execute queries. Also, the meta-model def in Muldis D needs more fleshing out. Updates of those 2 together should result in something that executes and does work, hopefully in my next release, hopefully before next week. But if not, I still know what the the queries look like if they were executing. ---------- That's about it for the summary. Go ahead and look at the current docs, and each distro's Changes file details the changes, or you can ignore them to just look at the current result. Feedback or questions welcome in advance of the meetings, in case that may help me make project improvements or give a better talk. Thank you. -- Darren Duncan From Peter at PSDT.com Wed Sep 26 12:15:22 2007 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:15:22 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> At 01:13 PM 9/25/2007, Darren Duncan wrote: >At 5:42 PM +0000 9/25/07, mock wrote: > >Enquisite, where I work, is willing to host a meeting. They have a > room with > >a projector available. > >I would be happy with this arrangement too. And I would be >interested in visiting the Enquisite site (205-3347 Oak Street, just >north of Mayfair?). Ditto. > > > News from OSCON is that the authors are starting the Perl 6 books > >> (Learning, Programming)... no promises on the release date for Perl 6 > >> itself but the books will take about 6 months to write and 3 months for > >> O'Reilly to produce. > > > >I didn't quite get that level of optimism when I was at YAPC::EU, but things > >do seem to be steadily moving along. I had the privilege of sitting in on an O'Reilly planning meeting of said authors plus publishing staff. Nothing confidential in what I said though. The hope is that the book writing will force the convergence of the Perl 6 design and implementation. > Speaking of which, I have a couple of > >20 minute talks that I did there if we're casting about for speakers. Absolutely. We want fresh speakers first and foremost. >I'm assuming that it is too late for us to gather tonight, too late a >notice, but we don't necessarily have to wait until the third tuesday >of October to meet ... depends if either a non-tuesday is okay, or if >there isn't crossover with VLUG (I won't leave RCSS though). If we >change day of week, at least once, this wednesday / tomorrow would be >a conflict. I'd rather stick to the third Tuesday of the month even if it means waiting. Does it conflict with any other meetings? However, I will be in Japan October 14 - 25... doesn't mean you can't meet without me though. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/ From mock at obscurity.org Wed Sep 26 16:22:07 2007 From: mock at obscurity.org (mock) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:22:07 +0000 Subject: [VPM] fyi: perl push-to-talk In-Reply-To: <825346.17295.qm@web36214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <825346.17295.qm@web36214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070926232207.GS6670@obscurity.org> On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 02:44:03PM -0700, Doug Snead wrote: > > FYI, Here's a little something I have been playing with > recently: > > Simple half-duplex intercom-like secure voice in Perl > http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=639207 > > Comments welcome. > > Doug > That's pretty cool. I love these kind of projects where perl gets used for something you wouldn't think it could be. mock From mock at obscurity.org Wed Sep 26 16:29:08 2007 From: mock at obscurity.org (mock) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:29:08 +0000 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> Message-ID: <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 12:15:22PM -0700, Peter Scott wrote: > At 01:13 PM 9/25/2007, Darren Duncan wrote: > >At 5:42 PM +0000 9/25/07, mock wrote: > > >Enquisite, where I work, is willing to host a meeting. They have a > > room with > > >a projector available. > > > >I would be happy with this arrangement too. And I would be > >interested in visiting the Enquisite site (205-3347 Oak Street, just > >north of Mayfair?). > > Ditto. Sounds like that will work then. > Absolutely. We want fresh speakers first and foremost. > I can do either a talk on scalable data collection, or finding vulnerabilities in perl programs, whichever suits people's fancy. > >I'm assuming that it is too late for us to gather tonight, too late a > >notice, but we don't necessarily have to wait until the third tuesday > >of October to meet ... depends if either a non-tuesday is okay, or if > >there isn't crossover with VLUG (I won't leave RCSS though). If we > >change day of week, at least once, this wednesday / tomorrow would be > >a conflict. > > I'd rather stick to the third Tuesday of the month even if it means > waiting. Does it conflict with any other meetings? > > However, I will be in Japan October 14 - 25... doesn't mean you can't > meet without me though. > I'm good pretty much anytime that isn't a weekend, it seems a bit silly to insist on the third tuesday if you're not going to be there ;) The second tuesday seems like it could work, if folks are generally agreeable. mock From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Thu Sep 27 13:01:56 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:01:56 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> Message-ID: At 11:29 PM +0000 9/26/07, mock wrote: >I can do either a talk on scalable data collection, or finding vulnerabilities >in perl programs, whichever suits people's fancy. Unless you have a lot of those (and you probably do), you would be best to do the security one when Peter is around, since he missed your last one to RCSS. >I'm good pretty much anytime that isn't a weekend, it seems a bit silly to >insist on the third tuesday if you're not going to be there ;) The second >tuesday seems like it could work, if folks are generally agreeable. I'm fine with that personally. It would likely conflict with VLUG, since that's their regular date, though I suspect this may not be a problem to many. On a separate note, I finally received my Macbook Pro yesterday, though haven't yet turned it on. Today I also received my Leopard seed DVD, a side benefit of my having just joined ADC Select to get a hardware discount for said MBP. In the near future, I'll start bringing this computer to meetings, though ideally first I still have to find a good carrying bag. Unless I just pack its shipping box in my backpack meanwhile. Any of you have suggestions on make or model of computer bags, eg what you use? -- Darren Duncan From mock at obscurity.org Thu Sep 27 16:11:44 2007 From: mock at obscurity.org (mock) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 23:11:44 +0000 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> Message-ID: <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 01:01:56PM -0700, Darren Duncan wrote: > At 11:29 PM +0000 9/26/07, mock wrote: > >I can do either a talk on scalable data collection, or finding vulnerabilities > >in perl programs, whichever suits people's fancy. > > Unless you have a lot of those (and you probably do), you would be > best to do the security one when Peter is around, since he missed > your last one to RCSS. > Whichever has the most votes I'll do. > >I'm good pretty much anytime that isn't a weekend, it seems a bit silly to > >insist on the third tuesday if you're not going to be there ;) The second > >tuesday seems like it could work, if folks are generally agreeable. > > I'm fine with that personally. It would likely conflict with VLUG, > since that's their regular date, though I suspect this may not be a > problem to many. While this may seem like heresy, I'm pretty sure it's possible to do a tech group meeting on a day that isn't a tuesday ;). (what is it with victoria geeks and tuesday anyway?) mock From Peter at PSDT.com Thu Sep 27 18:26:54 2007 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:26:54 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> At 04:11 PM 9/27/2007, mock wrote: >On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 01:01:56PM -0700, Darren Duncan wrote: > > At 11:29 PM +0000 9/26/07, mock wrote: > > >I can do either a talk on scalable data collection, or finding > vulnerabilities > > >in perl programs, whichever suits people's fancy. > > > > Unless you have a lot of those (and you probably do), you would be > > best to do the security one when Peter is around, since he missed > > your last one to RCSS. > > > >Whichever has the most votes I'll do. Vote: Vulnerabilities. > > >I'm good pretty much anytime that isn't a weekend, it seems a bit silly to > > >insist on the third tuesday if you're not going to be there ;) The second > > >tuesday seems like it could work, if folks are generally agreeable. > > > > I'm fine with that personally. It would likely conflict with VLUG, > > since that's their regular date, though I suspect this may not be a > > problem to many. > >While this may seem like heresy, I'm pretty sure it's possible to do a tech >group meeting on a day that isn't a tuesday ;). (what is it with victoria >geeks and tuesday anyway?) It is the least interesting day of the week ;-) and therefore least likely to suffer conflicts. So everyone picks it. The founder of SPUG, probably the first PM, said that possibly the most critical factor in growth was sticking to a regular schedule, which is what I've done. It hasn't led to growth, but maybe things would have been worse without it. I'd sooner wait until November 20, frankly. Also, we advertise this schedule on the web site, not that that can't be changed, but it constitutes some kind of outreach. We should use the time in between to build up membership: we need people trolling the uVic frosh the way Abram and Clarke did. Any uVicars who know how to do that? Just arrived via Fedex from aPress for Victoria.pm: a dozen each copies of their fall catalog and open source development roadmap; and three issues of Linux Pro magazine, each of which claims "DVD inside" but there isn't. Will bring to next meeting for raffle and give to loser. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/ From abez at abez.ca Thu Sep 27 18:57:12 2007 From: abez at abez.ca (Abram Hindle) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:57:12 -0400 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> Message-ID: <46FC5F78.10407@abez.ca> Peter Scott wrote: > We should use the time in between to build up membership: we need > people trolling the uVic frosh the way Abram and Clarke did. Any > uVicars who know how to do that? > > Just arrived via Fedex from aPress for Victoria.pm: a dozen each copies > of their fall catalog and open source development roadmap; and three > issues of Linux Pro magazine, each of which claims "DVD inside" but > there isn't. Will bring to next meeting for raffle and give to loser. > > I'd recommend getting a hold of the computer science course union. Mention Clarke etc. and they might help you. It is a free event for them anyways. A controversial recommendation I have is to open up to Python and Ruby, do all 3. They are both very similar to Perl and have a lot interest. abram -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/victoria-pm/attachments/20070927/ee939f1f/attachment.bin From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Thu Sep 27 19:55:03 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:55:03 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: <46FC5F78.10407@abez.ca> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <46FC5F78.10407@abez.ca> Message-ID: At 9:57 PM -0400 9/27/07, Abram Hindle wrote: >A controversial recommendation I have is to open up to Python and Ruby, >do all 3. They are both very similar to Perl and have a lot interest. I am personally okay with that. But what I would not do is open it to languages in general, in which case we should just use RCSS. In particular, we should *not* open to PHP, nor Java, nor MS .*, nor C.*. -- Darren Duncan