From Peter at PSDT.com Mon Oct 1 13:15:15 2007 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 13:15:15 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <46FC5F78.10407@abez.ca> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20071001131429.0263cd88@mail.webquarry.com> At 07:55 PM 9/27/2007, Darren Duncan wrote: >At 9:57 PM -0400 9/27/07, Abram Hindle wrote: > >A controversial recommendation I have is to open up to Python and Ruby, > >do all 3. They are both very similar to Perl and have a lot interest. > >I am personally okay with that. > >But what I would not do is open it to languages in general, in which >case we should just use RCSS. > >In particular, we should *not* open to PHP, nor Java, nor MS .*, nor C.*. I was thinking "Dynamic languages", but I can't think of any category that includes Perl, Ruby, and Python but excludes PHP. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/ From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Mon Oct 1 13:56:20 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 13:56:20 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: <46FC9390.3080706@abez.ca> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <46FC5F78.10407@abez.ca> <46FC9390.3080706@abez.ca> Message-ID: Abram sent this reply both to the list and to me directly, but the list copy didn't seem to work, hence I forward it to the rest of you. -- Darren Duncan At 1:39 AM -0400 9/28/07, Abram Hindle wrote: >Much of the syntax and ideas of perl/ruby/python are shared and they are > general purpose scripting languages. PHP is not general purpose and I >wouldn't support its inclusion because then everything is about boring >web stuff and not about neat things. > >abram > >Darren Duncan wrote: >> At 9:57 PM -0400 9/27/07, Abram Hindle wrote: >>> A controversial recommendation I have is to open up to Python and Ruby, >>> do all 3. They are both very similar to Perl and have a lot interest. >> >> I am personally okay with that. >> >> But what I would not do is open it to languages in general, in which >> case we should just use RCSS. >> > > In particular, we should *not* open to PHP, nor Java, nor MS .*, nor C.*. From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Tue Oct 2 11:38:27 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 11:38:27 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20071001131429.0263cd88@mail.webquarry.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <46FC5F78.10407@abez.ca> <6.2.3.4.2.20071001131429.0263cd88@mail.webquarry.com> Message-ID: At 6:26 PM -0700 9/27/07, Peter Scott wrote: >The founder of SPUG, probably the first PM, said that possibly the most >critical factor in growth was sticking to a regular schedule, which is >what I've done. It hasn't led to growth, but maybe things would have >been worse without it. I'd sooner wait until November 20, >frankly. Also, we advertise this schedule on the web site, not that >that can't be changed, but it constitutes some kind of outreach. As a heads-up, it is now being bandied about for today's RCSS meeting to be delayed 2 weeks again like September's, but this time because we only came up with content by today, which is too late for announcing etc. If this went ahead, it would conflict with the Victoria.pm for October, so besides Peter not missing out, that's another reason for us to delay, or for them to not delay in this way. At 1:15 PM -0700 10/1/07, Peter Scott wrote: >At 07:55 PM 9/27/2007, Darren Duncan wrote: > >At 9:57 PM -0400 9/27/07, Abram Hindle wrote: >> >A controversial recommendation I have is to open up to Python and Ruby, >...snip... >>... general, in which >>case we should just use RCSS. >> >>In particular, we should *not* open to PHP, nor Java, nor MS .*, nor C.*. > >I was thinking "Dynamic languages", but I can't think of any category >that includes Perl, Ruby, and Python but excludes PHP. Perhaps "general purpose dynamic languages"? -- Darren Duncan From Peter at PSDT.com Tue Oct 2 12:20:07 2007 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:20:07 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <46FC5F78.10407@abez.ca> <6.2.3.4.2.20071001131429.0263cd88@mail.webquarry.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20071002121950.026cb758@mail.webquarry.com> At 11:38 AM 10/2/2007, Darren Duncan wrote: > >I was thinking "Dynamic languages", but I can't think of any category > >that includes Perl, Ruby, and Python but excludes PHP. > >Perhaps "general purpose dynamic languages"? That'll work for me. Any other comments? -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/ From gtbowden at shaw.ca Tue Oct 2 14:05:40 2007 From: gtbowden at shaw.ca (GEORGE BOWDEN) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:05:40 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <46FC5F78.10407@abez.ca> <6.2.3.4.2.20071001131429.0263cd88@mail.webquarry.com> Message-ID: I've been lurking on your maillist for a couple of years.? I made two meetings a couple of years ago. I'd come to more meetings if Python, Ruby and PHP were covered in your group. I'm heavily involved in Big Blue and Cousins, but the programming SIG opportunities there are very limited..? Membership there is holding steady, up a bit from last year. I see that someone started a drupal php cms group in Victoria this year.? Better Web Posse does some PHP, Javascript, HTML and CSS. The VLUG meetings are shrinking.? Everything evolves.? George Bowden ----- Original Message ----- From: Darren Duncan Date: Tuesday, October 2, 2007 11:40 am Subject: Re: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? To: victoria-pm at pm.org > At 6:26 PM -0700 9/27/07, Peter Scott wrote: > >The founder of SPUG, probably the first PM, said that possibly > the most > >critical factor in growth was sticking to a regular schedule, > which is > >what I've done.? It hasn't led to growth, but maybe things > would have > >been worse without it.? I'd sooner wait until November 20, > >frankly.? Also, we advertise this schedule on the web > site, not that > >that can't be changed, but it constitutes some kind of outreach. > > As a heads-up, it is now being bandied about for today's RCSS > meeting > to be delayed 2 weeks again like September's, but this time > because > we only came up with content by today, which is too late for > announcing etc.? If this went ahead, it would conflict with > the > Victoria.pm for October, so besides Peter not missing out, > that's > another reason for us to delay, or for them to not delay in this way. > > At 1:15 PM -0700 10/1/07, Peter Scott wrote: > >At 07:55 PM 9/27/2007, Darren Duncan wrote: > >? >At 9:57 PM -0400 9/27/07, Abram Hindle wrote: > >>? >A controversial recommendation I have is to open up to > Python and Ruby, > >...snip... > >>... general, in which > >>case we should just use RCSS. > >> > >>In particular, we should *not* open to PHP, nor Java, nor MS > .*, nor C.*. > > > >I was thinking "Dynamic languages", but I can't think of any category > >that includes Perl, Ruby, and Python but excludes PHP. > > Perhaps "general purpose dynamic languages"? > > -- Darren Duncan > > _______________________________________________ > Victoria-pm mailing list > Victoria-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/victoria-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/victoria-pm/attachments/20071002/9c82b154/attachment.html From Peter at PSDT.com Tue Oct 2 15:19:56 2007 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:19:56 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Victoria.pm Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070820075603.0274e4d8@mail.webquarry.com> <20070925174247.GP6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070926121108.02615b68@mail.webquarry.com> <20070926232908.GT6670@obscurity.org> <20070927231144.GV6670@obscurity.org> <6.2.3.4.2.20070927181939.02780398@mail.webquarry.com> <46FC5F78.10407@abez.ca> <6.2.3.4.2.20071001131429.0263cd88@mail.webquarry.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20071002151908.0265f028@mail.webquarry.com> At 02:05 PM 10/2/2007, GEORGE BOWDEN wrote: >I'd come to more meetings if Python, Ruby and PHP were covered in your group. Hi George, thanks for delurking. I tend to agree with the proposal. I'm discussing it on the list of Perl Monger heads in order to figure out a good way of doing it. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/ From foolswisdom at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 10:30:53 2007 From: foolswisdom at gmail.com (Lloyd Budd) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:30:53 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Ubuntu + CPAN ? Message-ID: <9712993f0710101030m64691488xe9045dd29063e7e7@mail.gmail.com> Hi, So here I am dabbling in a little Perl code trying to do a simple Atompub::Client [1] app. This is the my first experience needing anything more than the built in libraries, and there are a lot of unmet dependencies, so I'm a little intimidated by CPAN. I'm using Ubuntu 7.04, is there a method/tool to automate install the libraries that are availabe as Ubuntu packags, and only use CPAN for the ones that aren't? Thank you, Lloyd 1. http://search.cpan.org/dist/Atompub/lib/Atompub/Client.pm From Peter at PSDT.com Wed Oct 10 12:38:48 2007 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:38:48 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Ubuntu + CPAN ? In-Reply-To: <9712993f0710101030m64691488xe9045dd29063e7e7@mail.gmail.co m> References: <9712993f0710101030m64691488xe9045dd29063e7e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20071010105901.026df5c0@mail.webquarry.com> At 10:30 AM 10/10/2007, Lloyd Budd wrote: >Hi, > >So here I am dabbling in a little Perl code trying to do a simple >Atompub::Client [1] app. > >This is the my first experience needing anything more than the built >in libraries, and there are a lot of unmet dependencies, so I'm a >little intimidated by CPAN. > >I'm using Ubuntu 7.04, is there a method/tool to automate install the >libraries that are availabe as Ubuntu packags, and only use CPAN for >the ones that aren't? I don't think you want or need to mix and match approaches. CPAN really is a piece of cake once you set it up initially and there are zillions of modules that make it easy. Once you've answered the initial questions all you should have to do is type 'cpan Atompub::Client'. To get set up, just type 'cpan' to begin with. Depending on whether it's been used before, it'll either give you a prompt or take you through setup. Odds are you'll see: If you prefer to enter a dialog instead, you can answer 'no' to this question and I'll let you configure in small steps one thing after the other. (Note: you can revisit this dialog anytime later by typing 'o conf init' at the cpan prompt.) Would you like me to configure as much as possible automatically? [yes] Hit return. Continue hitting return for all the prompts, except when it asks you whether it shoulw automatically follow dependencies - I type 'follow' there. When it gives you a list of URLs, I usually pick US sites at pair.com and perl.com; others will doubtless chime in with favourites. This takes only a minute. Then you're done; type 'quit' and then you can do 'cpan Atompub::Client'. It'll pull in all the dependencies that you don't have, which I figured out below with a program that comes with the module CPAN::Dependency: $ cpandeps Atompub::Client Atompub::Client (T/TA/TAKERU/Atompub-0.2.2.tar.gz) DateTime (D/DR/DROLSKY/DateTime-0.41.tar.gz) Test::More (M/MS/MSCHWERN/Test-Simple-0.72.tar.gz) Test::Harness (P/PE/PETDANCE/Test-Harness-2.64.tar.gz) File::Spec (K/KW/KWILLIAMS/PathTools-3.25.tar.gz) Scalar::Util (G/GB/GBARR/Scalar-List-Utils-1.19.tar.gz) DateTime::TimeZone (D/DR/DROLSKY/DateTime-TimeZone-0.68.tar.gz) Class::Singleton (A/AB/ABW/Class-Singleton-1.4.tar.gz) Params::Validate (D/DR/DROLSKY/Params-Validate-0.88.tar.gz) Attribute::Handlers (A/AB/ABERGMAN/Attribute-Handlers-0.78.tar.gz) Pod::Man (R/RR/RRA/podlators-2.0.5.tar.gz) Pod::Simple (A/AR/ARANDAL/Pod-Simple-3.05.tar.gz) Pod::Escapes (S/SB/SBURKE/Pod-Escapes-1.04.tar.gz) constant (S/SA/SAPER/constant-1.11.tar.gz) Text::Wrap (M/MU/MUIR/modules/Text-Tabs+Wrap-2006.1117.tar.gz) DateTime::Locale (D/DR/DROLSKY/DateTime-Locale-0.35.tar.gz) Time::Local (D/DR/DROLSKY/Time-Local-1.17.tar.gz) URI::Escape (G/GA/GAAS/URI-1.35.tar.gz) HTTP::Status (G/GA/GAAS/libwww-perl-5.808.tar.gz) Class::Accessor::Fast (K/KA/KASEI/Class-Accessor-0.31.tar.gz) base (R/RG/RGARCIA/base-2.12.tar.gz) Test::Perl::Critic (T/TH/THALJEF/testperlcritic/Test-Perl-Critic-1.01.tar.gz) Class::Data::Inheritable (T/TM/TMTM/Class-Data-Inheritable-0.06.tar.gz) XML::Atom::Service (T/TA/TAKERU/XML-Atom-Service-0.15.4.tar.gz) version (J/JP/JPEACOCK/version-0.73.tar.gz) XML::Atom (M/MI/MIYAGAWA/XML-Atom-0.27.tar.gz) MIME::Base64 (G/GA/GAAS/MIME-Base64-3.07.tar.gz) File::Slurp (U/UR/URI/File-Slurp-9999.12.tar.gz) Module::Build::Compat (K/KW/KWILLIAMS/Module-Build-0.2808.tar.gz) ExtUtils::Install (M/MS/MSCHWERN/ExtUtils-Install-1.44.tar.gz) ExtUtils::MakeMaker (M/MS/MSCHWERN/ExtUtils-MakeMaker-6.36.tar.gz) File::Path (D/DL/DLAND/File-Path-2.01.tar.gz) ExtUtils::Manifest (R/RK/RKOBES/ExtUtils-Manifest-1.51.tar.gz) Getopt::Long (J/JV/JV/Getopt-Long-2.37.tar.gz) Pod::Usage (M/MA/MAREKR/Pod-Parser-1.35.tar.gz) IO::File (G/GB/GBARR/IO-1.2301.tar.gz) Data::Dumper (I/IL/ILYAM/Data-Dumper-2.121.tar.gz) Digest::SHA1 (G/GA/GAAS/Digest-SHA1-2.11.tar.gz) MIME::Types (M/MA/MARKOV/MIME-Types-1.21.tar.gz) Test::Pod (P/PE/PETDANCE/Test-Pod-1.26.tar.gz) Class::Accessor::Lvalue::Fast (R/RC/RCLAMP/Class-Accessor-Lvalue-0.11.tar.gz) Want (R/RO/ROBIN/Want-0.15.tar.gz) DateTime::Format::W3CDTF (K/KE/KELLAN/DateTime-Format-W3CDTF-0.04.tar.gz) Perl6::Export::Attrs (D/DC/DCONWAY/Perl6-Export-Attrs-0.0.3.tar.gz) Holy cow. But at least cpan will install them automatically. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/ From sk at infinitepigeons.org Wed Oct 10 12:48:53 2007 From: sk at infinitepigeons.org (Steven Kurylo) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:48:53 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Ubuntu + CPAN ? In-Reply-To: <9712993f0710101030m64691488xe9045dd29063e7e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <9712993f0710101030m64691488xe9045dd29063e7e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6d91d5d80710101248o4f29c60dr8aa2451f3e4954f6@mail.gmail.com> > I'm using Ubuntu 7.04, is there a method/tool to automate install the > libraries that are availabe as Ubuntu packags, and only use CPAN for > the ones that aren't? dh-make-perl --cpan Atompub::Client -- Steven Kurylo From charlespfrank at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 12:57:33 2007 From: charlespfrank at gmail.com (Charles Frank) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:57:33 -0700 Subject: [VPM] 1. Ubuntu + CPAN ? (Lloyd Budd) Message-ID: <860fd9970710101257r1f10f2d3wf514ec5446ce6b5e@mail.gmail.com> On 10/10/07, victoria-pm-request at pm.org wrote: > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Ubuntu + CPAN ? (Lloyd Budd) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:30:53 -0700 > From: "Lloyd Budd" > Subject: [VPM] Ubuntu + CPAN ? > To: victoria-pm at pm.org > Message-ID: > <9712993f0710101030m64691488xe9045dd29063e7e7 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > I'm using Ubuntu 7.04, is there a method/tool to automate install the > libraries that are availabe as Ubuntu packags, and only use CPAN for > the ones that aren't? Hi Lloyd, I have run up against this issue a few times in the past. I usually opt to keep my development application libs completely separate from system libs based on application divide. I might have a unique application that I use combinations of Perl CPAN modules with that are tried and true. I am interested in which module src versions works within the particular application, as module dependency dictates. The CPAN usually installs modules to the system lib, and its possible that particular requirements for my distinctly separate applications would require different versions of a CPAN module. This means that each application gets an install of only the src modules that are needed for that application. It also means you need a build script to put the modules where the application expects to find them, and some sort of environment variable setup in a config some place that lets your application know where to find your perl libs. I have a script that works to check the src dependencies based on an application root, but it assumes a particular directory structure. This script uses Modules::Depends::Intrusive to do its heavy lifting (my version of Module::Depends requires Class::Accessor, File::chdir and YAML). So to recap here are some questions: 1. Do you want to install the dependency modules that you need into the system libs, and will this conflict with any other version requirements for other applications you are working on now or in the future? If not then I wouldn't worry too much about using the CPAN. 2. Do you want to be able to easily remove the application and all its dependencies at the termination of application development? This would argue for installing the src modules in a specialized directory. 3. Will you be packaging up your application to move it around to various install sites? For example, will you be deploying it onto a few different servers? This would definitely argue for installing src modules in a specialized directory, and a build script to build them out repeatedly. I know this answer poses more questions than answers, but the issue is complicated. I do have the the mentioned script if you are interested in seeing how I have tried to solve this problem on an application by application basis. I always opt for the install of required modules into a specialized directory, accompanied with a build script. I have an application starter that I call Workshop, based roughly on the ideas for Matchstick that includes the build script and src modules that allow you to bootstrap a build, including Apache and Mod Perl (I do web development). I can tar that up for you and send it to you if you would like to see a more complete picture of what I am talking about. Here is the link to Matchstick (not much activity for it lately, but the idea is a good one): http://sourceforge.net/projects/matchstick/ This idea of a 'starter kit' grew out of the build system associated with the Krang CMS, located here: http://www.krangcms.com/ Chuck -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/victoria-pm/attachments/20071010/4659d4b3/attachment.html From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Wed Oct 10 13:08:02 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:08:02 -0700 Subject: [VPM] ANNOUNCE - Language::MuldisD v0.7.0 released Message-ID: All, I am pleased to announce the release of Language::MuldisD official/unembraced version 0.9.0 on CPAN. You can see it now, with nicely HTMLized documentation, at: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Language-MuldisD/ This is a snapshot release taken part-way through my fleshing out the system catalog definition; it is closer to being able to specify writing type (eg, schema) and routine (eg, query) definitions, but not there yet. I aim to be the rest of the way by next tuesday if possible, or even this week. See the "Changes" file ( http://search.cpan.org/src/DUNCAND/Language-MuldisD-0.9.0/Changes ) for more details of what changed for this release. Thank you. -- Darren Duncan From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Wed Oct 10 13:30:06 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:30:06 -0700 Subject: [VPM] correction; ANNOUNCE - Language::MuldisD v0.9.0 released Message-ID: P.S. The subject line was wrong with the first email. ---------------- All, I am pleased to announce the release of Language::MuldisD official/unembraced version 0.9.0 on CPAN. You can see it now, with nicely HTMLized documentation, at: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Language-MuldisD/ This is a snapshot release taken part-way through my fleshing out the system catalog definition; it is closer to being able to specify writing type (eg, schema) and routine (eg, query) definitions, but not there yet. I aim to be the rest of the way by next tuesday if possible, or even this week. See the "Changes" file ( http://search.cpan.org/src/DUNCAND/Language-MuldisD-0.9.0/Changes ) for more details of what changed for this release. Thank you. -- Darren Duncan From Peter at PSDT.com Wed Oct 10 13:43:06 2007 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:43:06 -0700 Subject: [VPM] 1. Ubuntu + CPAN ? (Lloyd Budd) In-Reply-To: <860fd9970710101257r1f10f2d3wf514ec5446ce6b5e@mail.gmail.co m> References: <860fd9970710101257r1f10f2d3wf514ec5446ce6b5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20071010133639.0273ca60@mail.webquarry.com> At 12:57 PM 10/10/2007, Charles Frank wrote: >I have run up against this issue a few times in the past. I usually >opt to keep my development application libs completely separate from >system libs based on application divide. Ah yes, this is a very good point. The "system" perl is part of a distro and should be unmolested. So I always leave it alone and build my own perl from source and put it in /usr/local/bin. And that is very easy too: su mkdir /usr/local/src/perl cd /usr/local/src/perl wget http://www.cpan.org/src/stable.tar.gz tar zxf stable.tar.gz rm stable.tar.gz cd perl-* ./Configure -des make test install -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/ From jeremygwa at hotmail.com Wed Oct 10 16:38:51 2007 From: jeremygwa at hotmail.com (Jer A) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:38:51 -0700 Subject: [VPM] sort array of anon hashes Message-ID: hi all, say I have an array of hashes pushed like so : push(@array, {key1 => 'test', string => 'this is a string', id => '1'}); how do i sort this alphabetically ascending or descending, by a specified key val, and still preserve the anonymous hash eg. after sorting, $array[$i]->{key1} and $array[$i]->{string} should be both from the same anon hash entry in the array. thanks in advance for all help. -Jer A. _________________________________________________________________ Send a smile, make someone laugh, have some fun! Start now! http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122 From Peter at PSDT.com Wed Oct 10 17:47:53 2007 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:47:53 -0700 Subject: [VPM] sort array of anon hashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20071010174509.0274e308@mail.webquarry.com> At 04:38 PM 10/10/2007, Jer A wrote: >say I have an array of hashes pushed like so : push(@array, {key1 => >'test', string => 'this is a string', id => '1'}); > >how do i sort this alphabetically ascending or descending, by a >specified key val, and still preserve the anonymous hash > >eg. after sorting, $array[$i]->{key1} and $array[$i]->{string} should >be both from the same anon hash entry in the array. What do you want to sort it on? Sorting won't change the data, only its order. If you want to change the order of the hashrefs in the array based upon the value of key1 then you can do: @array = sort { $a->{key1} cmp $b->{key1} } @array There's no way sorting the array could break apart the entries in the hashrefs. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/ From charlespfrank at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 21:14:12 2007 From: charlespfrank at gmail.com (Charles Frank) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:14:12 -0700 Subject: [VPM] sort array of anon hashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <860fd9970710102114t4666069bv728f330d3a887a98@mail.gmail.com> On 10/10/07, Jer A wrote: > > > > > hi all, > > > say I have an array of hashes pushed like so : push(@array, {key1 => > 'test', string => 'this is a string', id => '1'}); > > > how do i sort this alphabetically ascending or descending, by a specified > key val, and still preserve the anonymous hash > > eg. after sorting, $array[$i]->{key1} and $array[$i]->{string} should be > both from the same anon hash entry in the array. Hi, I am still trying to fix my mail list settings to not use digest, so if you already have a good answer, then I am sorry for the repetition. Its hard to know what level you expect the sorting at via the problem discription, but I am assuming you'd want to sort on keys at the anon hashref level, and use the key/value pairing. This is how you could do it (not including proper param validation): ####################################### #!/usr/bin/env/perl -w use strict; my @array = ({key => 'test', string => 'this is a string', id => 1 }); for my $href(@array) { for my $sorted (sort_this('asc', $href)) { do_something($sorted, $href->{$sorted}); } #This map could replace the for loop above; be warned about $_ in nested loops #map { do_something($_, $href->{$_}); } sort_this('asc', $href); } sub sort_this { my ($direction, $href) = @_; if ($direction eq 'desc') { return reverse sort {$href->{$a} cmp $href->{$b}} keys %$href; } elsif ($direction eq 'asc') { return sort {$href->{$a} cmp $href->{$b}} keys %$href; } else { die "A horrible death, or just use Params::Validate\n"; } } sub do_something { my ($key, $val) = @_; print "key: $key \t val: $val\n";? } ##################################### Chuck -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/victoria-pm/attachments/20071010/ab5fff12/attachment.html From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Mon Oct 15 17:11:53 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:11:53 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Tue, 2007 Oct 23rd, 7:00pm - October RCSS meeting Message-ID: This message is forwarded from the Recreational Computer Science Society mailing list. -- Darren Duncan P.S. The October RCSS meeting is on the ground floor of the ECS (Engineering Computer Science) building at UVIC, at 7pm on tuesday October 23rd. ------------- Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:10:49 -0700 From: "Peter van Hardenberg" To: reccompsci at googlegroups.com Subject: [reccompsci] October Meeting: October 23rd, 7:00PM. Mailing-List: list reccompsci at googlegroups.com; contact reccompsci-owner at googlegroups.com List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: , RCSS meeting for October: Topics: Process synchronization by kernel hacking -- Noel Why The Mozilla Framework Is The Future -- Peter (I promise to wear an asbestos shirt) Live MuldisD Demo -- Darren Because the room we usually meet in is occupied by a class this semester we will be meeting in the small classroom at the other end of the hall on the same side of the building. (If entering from ring road, it will be immediately to your left at the end of a short side-passage.) Looking forward to seeing you all there, -pvh -- Peter van Hardenberg Victoria, BC, Canada "Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt." -- Kurt Vonnegut --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Recreational Computer Science Society" group. To post to this group, send email to reccompsci at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to reccompsci-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/reccompsci?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From tyler at yi.org Wed Oct 17 11:28:46 2007 From: tyler at yi.org (Tyler MacDonald) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:28:46 -0700 Subject: [VPM] What happened last night? Message-ID: <20071017182846.GD12595@yi.org> A friend of mine showed up at ECS 660 last night at 7pm, and he said he was the only one there... where were you guys? :-) - Tyler From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Wed Oct 17 13:14:17 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:14:17 -0700 Subject: [VPM] What happened last night? In-Reply-To: <20071017182846.GD12595@yi.org> References: <20071017182846.GD12595@yi.org> Message-ID: At 11:28 AM -0700 10/17/07, Tyler MacDonald wrote: >A friend of mine showed up at ECS 660 last night at 7pm, and he said he was >the only one there... where were you guys? :-) > - Tyler Tell your friend that meetings only actually happen if there is an explicit announcement for it, and there wasn't any for yesterday. It is unreliable to go otherwise. (And yes, this same problem happened to me once.) Also, hopefully we'll have a November meeting, but it will probably be in a different location, outside UVIC. -- Darren Duncan From tyler at yi.org Wed Oct 17 13:42:10 2007 From: tyler at yi.org (Tyler MacDonald) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:42:10 -0700 Subject: [VPM] What happened last night? In-Reply-To: References: <20071017182846.GD12595@yi.org> Message-ID: <20071017204210.GE12595@yi.org> Darren Duncan wrote: > Tell your friend that meetings only actually happen if there is an > explicit announcement for it, and there wasn't any for yesterday. It > is unreliable to go otherwise. (And yes, this same problem happened > to me once.) Can somebody update http://victoria.pm.org/ then? :-) > Also, hopefully we'll have a November meeting, but it will probably > be in a different location, outside UVIC. Right on, I'm looking forward to it :-) - Tyler From mock at obscurity.org Wed Oct 17 13:59:44 2007 From: mock at obscurity.org (mock) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:59:44 +0000 Subject: [VPM] What happened last night? In-Reply-To: <20071017204210.GE12595@yi.org> References: <20071017182846.GD12595@yi.org> <20071017204210.GE12595@yi.org> Message-ID: <20071017205944.GS11870@obscurity.org> On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 01:42:10PM -0700, Tyler MacDonald wrote: > Darren Duncan wrote: > > Tell your friend that meetings only actually happen if there is an > > explicit announcement for it, and there wasn't any for yesterday. It > > is unreliable to go otherwise. (And yes, this same problem happened > > to me once.) > > Can somebody update http://victoria.pm.org/ then? :-) > > > Also, hopefully we'll have a November meeting, but it will probably > > be in a different location, outside UVIC. > > Right on, I'm looking forward to it :-) > > - Tyler So... uh... this means I'm gonna talk in November right? About finding vulnerabilities in perl programs? On the 20th? At the Enquisite/Metamend offices? mock From peter at psdt.com Wed Oct 17 15:14:13 2007 From: peter at psdt.com (peter at psdt.com) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [VPM] What happened last night? In-Reply-To: <20071017205944.GS11870@obscurity.org> References: <20071017182846.GD12595@yi.org> <20071017204210.GE12595@yi.org> <20071017205944.GS11870@obscurity.org> Message-ID: <41948.210.142.128.22.1192659253.squirrel@mail.webquarry.com> > On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 01:42:10PM -0700, Tyler MacDonald wrote: >> Darren Duncan wrote: >> > Tell your friend that meetings only actually happen if there is an >> > explicit announcement for it, and there wasn't any for yesterday. It >> > is unreliable to go otherwise. (And yes, this same problem happened >> > to me once.) >> >> Can somebody update http://victoria.pm.org/ then? :-) Argh, I thought I had. Sorry, all. Especially to a newcomer. >> > Also, hopefully we'll have a November meeting, but it will probably >> > be in a different location, outside UVIC. >> >> Right on, I'm looking forward to it :-) >> >> - Tyler > > So... uh... this means I'm gonna talk in November right? About finding > vulnerabilities in perl programs? On the 20th? At the Enquisite/Metamend > offices? Yes, I certainly hope so. I'm in Japan at the moment, with limited connectivity. From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Wed Oct 17 16:43:56 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 16:43:56 -0700 Subject: [VPM] November meeting (was Re: What happened last night?) In-Reply-To: <41948.210.142.128.22.1192659253.squirrel@mail.webquarry.com> References: <20071017182846.GD12595@yi.org> <20071017204210.GE12595@yi.org> <20071017205944.GS11870@obscurity.org> <41948.210.142.128.22.1192659253.squirrel@mail.webquarry.com> Message-ID: At 3:14 PM -0700 10/17/07, peter at psdt.com wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 01:42:10PM -0700, Tyler MacDonald wrote: >>> Darren Duncan wrote: >>> > Tell your friend that meetings only actually happen if there is an >>> > explicit announcement for it, and there wasn't any for yesterday. It >>> > is unreliable to go otherwise. (And yes, this same problem happened >>> > to me once.) >>> >>> Can somebody update http://victoria.pm.org/ then? :-) > >Argh, I thought I had. Sorry, all. Especially to a newcomer. > >>> > Also, hopefully we'll have a November meeting, but it will probably >>> > be in a different location, outside UVIC. >>> >>> Right on, I'm looking forward to it :-) >>> >>> - Tyler >> >> So... uh... this means I'm gonna talk in November right? About finding >> vulnerabilities in perl programs? On the 20th? At the Enquisite/Metamend >> offices? > >Yes, I certainly hope so. > >I'm in Japan at the moment, with limited connectivity. It is also my hope and expectation that we will meet at Enquisite on the 20th November for VPM. Besides Mock's talk, unless that will take up the whole meeting, I will also talk about Muldis DB. I'll be giving my first, shorter talk on it next week at RCSS (see the forward), and then at VPM I could give a more full one and/or a follow-up, which should be better in any event since the project will be a month more developed by then. P.S. Mock, if your talk will include DBIx-Class as examples (like your last talk), there is a slight chance it may have evolved in security impacting ways during that time. -- Darren Duncan From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Sun Oct 21 20:57:57 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:57:57 -0700 Subject: [VPM] help wanted - example database schemas and queries Message-ID: All, At this point in time, the design work on Muldis D + Muldis DB is transitioning to be implementation driven rather than theoretical scenario driven. That is, the fundamental design work is more or less done, and I'm now moving on to filling in cracks in the design that would get revealed by actually trying to write code that uses Muldis DB and implement the latter so that the former runs. For context, you can see http://search.cpan.org/dist/Language-MuldisD/ and http://search.cpan.org/dist/Muldis-DB/ , though the versions on CPAN aren't the absolute newest versions. While I am great in thinking of things in more abstract or generic terms, it is great drudgery for me to try to come up with specific examples of use, such as actual tasks being solved, actual database schemas, reasonable sample data, and actual queries to run. I am now requesting the help of any interested parties to generate and/or collect database use case examples that I would then translate into Perl Hosted Muldis D code, thereby demonstrating how one would use Muldis DB to implement solutions to the use cases. Please provide your examples with as much detail as reasonably possible, since I will basically be translating them literally, and I can't really fill in blanks; so too little detail means a less interesting and/or non-instructive result. For example, specify the components, relationships, and constraints or business rules for data that you want a database schema to implement, as well as some specific queries or data manipulation tasks you would want to do with it. If you want, you can specify these in the form of SQL DDL and DML+SELECT statements. Or you can use pseudo-code of some other well known programming language. Bonus points for providing some example (small) data sets for inputs as well as describing the expected outputs. Note that generic question/examples like just "how do I join 2 rowsets" or "how do I filter records" or "how do I do subqueries" are not very helpful since the actual way to code this can change depending on the reason you want to do this and the structure of the tables. Keep in mind that Muldis DB is better considered, in the context of it being used as a wrapper over DBI et al, as a relational database abstraction layer, and not as a Perl object persistence layer. So please format the use cases in consideration of this paradigm. Please send them directly to darren at darrenduncan.net, soon as you can, and even partial is better than none. I will collect the input and make the initial version of a Muldis DB cookbook from this source material plus the implementing code in Muldis DB, as well as use them as examples for live presentations I give (the first being on the 23rd). I also need to make a test suite sooner rather than later, and these examples could also help with that to some extent. Thank you in advance. -- Darren Duncan From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Mon Oct 22 12:13:07 2007 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:13:07 -0700 Subject: [VPM] Reminder: RCSS Meeting Tomorrow (Tuesday, Oct. 23rd, 2007) Message-ID: This message is forwarded from the Recreational Computer Science Society mailing list. -- Darren Duncan ------------- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:47:09 -0700 From: "Peter van Hardenberg" To: reccompsci at googlegroups.com Subject: [reccompsci] Reminder: Meeting Tomorrow (Tuesday, Oct. 23rd, 2007) Mailing-List: list reccompsci at googlegroups.com; contact reccompsci-owner at googlegroups.com List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: , The monthly RCSS meeting is tomorrow evening. On the plate: -- Process Hacking in the Linux Kernel (Noel) -- Why Mozilla Is Not The Worst Idea (Peter) -- Muldis D + DB (Darren) The meeting will be in pretty much the usual place at the normal time: 7:00PM ECS building, UVic, ground floor, last lecture room on the right (our usual room has a class this semester, so we're at the other end of the building) See you all then! I think I've convinced Anthony to talk about his work with audio codecs at INgrooves next month (specifically FLAC). Who else is up for presenting something? -pvh -- Peter van Hardenberg Victoria, BC, Canada "Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt." -- Kurt Vonnegut --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Recreational Computer Science Society" group. To post to this group, send email to reccompsci at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to reccompsci-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/reccompsci?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Peter at PSDT.com Mon Oct 29 09:36:14 2007 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:36:14 -0700 Subject: [VPM] November meeting (was Re: What happened last night?) In-Reply-To: References: <20071017182846.GD12595@yi.org> <20071017204210.GE12595@yi.org> <20071017205944.GS11870@obscurity.org> <41948.210.142.128.22.1192659253.squirrel@mail.webquarry.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20071029093444.034eca20@tweety> >It is also my hope and expectation that we will meet at Enquisite on >the 20th November for VPM. > >Besides Mock's talk, unless that will take up the whole meeting, I >will also talk about Muldis DB. Okay, I'm back from Japan and ready to update the home page. I would also like to post a description of our next meeting so may I please have: Suitable directions to the new location; Suitable description of Mock's talk and Darren's update. Thanks! -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/