From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Tue Mar 2 15:39:38 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] Exegesis 7 now posted Message-ID: Just a few days after my noticing that Form.pm et al (parts of or emulators of Perl 6) are now posted on CPAN, I see that Damian Conway's Exegesis 7 is online at perl.com: http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2004/02/27/exegesis7.html This corresponds to a one-liner Apocalypse 7 that was posted a year ago. -- Darren Duncan From Peter at PSDT.com Tue Mar 2 16:01:53 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] Exegesis 7 now posted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040302140021.01ea6428@shell2.webquarry.com> At 01:39 PM 3/2/2004, Darren Duncan wrote: >Just a few days after my noticing that Form.pm et al (parts of or >emulators of Perl 6) are now posted on CPAN, I see that Damian >Conway's Exegesis 7 is online at perl.com: > >http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2004/02/27/exegesis7.html > >This corresponds to a one-liner Apocalypse 7 that was posted a year ago. Holy Cow, it's 76 pages. At the last Perl Conference I thanked Damian for visiting our planet. I hope he stays. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Tue Mar 2 16:14:24 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] Exegesis 7 now posted In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040302140021.01ea6428@shell2.webquarry.com> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040302140021.01ea6428@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: At 2:01 PM -0800 3/2/04, Peter Scott wrote: >Holy Cow, it's 76 pages. >At the last Perl Conference I thanked Damian for visiting our >planet. I hope he stays. Do you mean "when printed"? There are only 13 "web pages" in this article, which is around the same order of magnitude as previous Exegesis. -- Darren Duncan From Peter at PSDT.com Tue Mar 2 16:22:47 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] Exegesis 7 now posted In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040302140021.01ea6428@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040302142204.01eb6a88@shell2.webquarry.com> At 02:14 PM 3/2/2004, Darren Duncan wrote: >At 2:01 PM -0800 3/2/04, Peter Scott wrote: >>Holy Cow, it's 76 pages. >>At the last Perl Conference I thanked Damian for visiting our >>planet. I hope he stays. > >Do you mean "when printed"? Yes, if it were printed, using that as a measure of length. >There are only 13 "web pages" in this article, which is around the >same order of magnitude as previous Exegesis. -- Darren Duncan But none having the same ratio of exegesis to apocalypse length. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Tue Mar 2 16:36:33 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] Exegesis 7 now posted In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040302142204.01eb6a88@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Peter Scott wrote: > But none having the same ratio of exegesis to apocalypse length. Not that I'm surprised. Apocalypse 7 was different in that it didn't explain anything other than that it was passing the buck. I still await Apocalypse 12, which hopefully will come along real soo now. -- Darren Duncan From cconstan at csc.UVic.CA Tue Mar 2 17:19:08 2004 From: cconstan at csc.UVic.CA (Carl B. Constantine) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] can I do this? Message-ID: <20040302231908.GJ19071@csc> Can I use unless in concert with or (||) like you can if statements? Consider the following: unless ($fileType =~ "PostScript") or ($fileType =~ "Printer Job Language) { my $pgGuess = countASCII($dataFile); return($pgGuess); } Or do I have to do something different for a compond test like this? -- Carl B. Constantine University of Victoria Programmer Analyst http://www.csc.uvic.ca UNIX System Administrator Victoria, BC, Canada cconstan@csc.uvic.ca ELW A248, 721-8766 From Peter at PSDT.com Tue Mar 2 17:25:40 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] can I do this? In-Reply-To: <20040302231908.GJ19071@csc> References: <20040302231908.GJ19071@csc> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040302152438.01eb6a88@shell2.webquarry.com> At 03:19 PM 3/2/2004, Carl B. Constantine wrote: >Can I use unless in concert with or (||) like you can if statements? Yes. You can do anything with unless that you can do with if. Including putting in an else {} block, if you like to confuse yourself. >Consider the following: >unless ($fileType =~ "PostScript") or ($fileType =~ "Printer Job >Language) { Syntax error, insufficient parentheses. No difference whether it's 'unless' or 'if'. > my $pgGuess = countASCII($dataFile); > return($pgGuess); >} > >Or do I have to do something different for a compond test like this? -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From cconstan at csc.UVic.CA Tue Mar 2 17:46:53 2004 From: cconstan at csc.UVic.CA (Carl B. Constantine) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] can I do this? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040302152438.01eb6a88@shell2.webquarry.com> References: <20040302231908.GJ19071@csc> <6.0.3.0.2.20040302152438.01eb6a88@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: <20040302234653.GK19071@csc> *On Tue Mar 02, 2004 at 03:25:40PM -0800, Peter Scott (Peter@PSDT.com) wrote: > At 03:19 PM 3/2/2004, Carl B. Constantine wrote: > >Can I use unless in concert with or (||) like you can if statements? > > Yes. You can do anything with unless that you can do with > if. Including putting in an else {} block, if you like to confuse yourself. Thanks. I thought so, but thought I should check. > > >Consider the following: > >unless ($fileType =~ "PostScript") or ($fileType =~ "Printer Job > >Language) { > > Syntax error, insufficient parentheses. No difference whether it's > 'unless' or 'if'. yeah, should be: unless (($fileType =~ "PostScript") or ($fileType =~ "Printer Job Language)) { -- Carl B. Constantine University of Victoria Programmer Analyst http://www.csc.uvic.ca UNIX System Administrator Victoria, BC, Canada cconstan@csc.uvic.ca ELW A248, 721-8766 From Peter at PSDT.com Tue Mar 2 18:03:33 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] Nathanael Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040302160208.01eb6a88@shell2.webquarry.com> Anyone know Nathanael Kuiper's email address? The Hotmail one in the list has been bouncing. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Tue Mar 2 18:34:28 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] Nathanael In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040302160208.01eb6a88@shell2.webquarry.com> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040302160208.01eb6a88@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: At 4:03 PM -0800 3/2/04, Peter Scott wrote: >Anyone know Nathanael Kuiper's email address? The Hotmail one in >the list has been bouncing. As far as I know, Nathaneal's email address has always been nkuipers@uvic.ca . Try that. -- Darren Duncan From yf110 at victoria.tc.ca Tue Mar 2 18:57:12 2004 From: yf110 at victoria.tc.ca (Malcolm Dew-Jones) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] can I do this? In-Reply-To: <20040302231908.GJ19071@csc> References: <20040302231908.GJ19071@csc> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Carl B. Constantine wrote: > Can I use unless in concert with or (||) like you can if statements? Yes, but I don't recommend it. The double negative logic is an easy source of error. I suggest you avoid anything more complicated than things like next unless m/this-is-the-one-we-want/; -- Web Work Wanted, Perl Projects Programmed, Database Development Done. I'm looking for telecommute projects. (Paying that is, various arrangements possible.) From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Thu Mar 4 19:31:30 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] RFC: multi-package module best practices Message-ID: P.S. I also sent this email to modules@cpan.org, but I am also sending it to you in case you have some good insights to share too. ---------------------------- Hello. I have a question regarding "best practice" details concerning a module which declares multiple packages/classes inside that should be visible to the public. Say, for example, I have a single object-oriented Perl 5 module named "Foo.pm", and it contains these 3 package declarations inside: "Foo", "Foo::Bar", "Foo::Baz". The "NAME" POD inside only gives a one-liner for "Foo" as that is the namesake package, though it is mainly "Foo::Bar" and "Foo::Baz" which users of the module actually make instances of, pass around, store data in, test for by name using "UNIVERSAL::isa", and so on. (They issue just "use Foo" before using any one of them to compile the whole set.) In this example, users of the Foo module are treating Foo::Bar and Foo::Baz as distinct entities to use, but those two classes are implemented in a single module file for convenience as they are normally used together, and the POD for the Foo module says they are components of Foo and documents a separate method list for each. Now some of the questions (answer just the ones you want): 1. Since the two classes in the example are always used together, is it reasonable to have them in a single module with unified documentation (much of which describes them together), or is it better to have Foo::Bar and Foo::Baz as separate physical modules where the file names match the package names (eg: lib/Foo/Bar.pm and lib/Foo/Baz.pm). Which is easier to use or understand? 2. Since people are meant to use each package directly, would it be better to have normal-looking names like Foo::Bar, or would it be better to have a different looking name such as Foo::_::Bar which makes the name stand out as being declared inside a module with a different name? What would be best practice or easier to use? (Note that I would still use the "::_" for any additional inner classes that are meant to be private and only used by the public-visible ones, such as Foo::_::Shared, to avoid possible namespace collisions later.) 3. Concerning CPAN's tracking of module ownership and registration: Is module ownership tracked and attributed by file/path name or by the name of the package declaration inside or by the NAME POD? 4. Related to #3, if I were to upload said module Foo.pm to CPAN, would the system register me as the maintainer/owner of Foo::Bar and Foo::Baz in addition to Foo? I want to avoid a situation where, for example, someone later uploads their own extension module named Foo::Bar in a file named "lib/Foo/Bar.pm" and then get ownership to Foo::Bar. Now for a bit of context: 1. For all intents and purposes, I have 3 actual modules on CPAN now which are organized in the multiple-package fashion that I described above: Rosetta - presently contains [*::Interface, *::Engine] SQL::SyntaxModel - [*::_::Container, *::_::Node] Locale::KeyedText - [*::_::Message, *::_::Translator] For the first one, the inner classes were visible to the PAUSE indexer. For the latter two, the inner package declarations were mangled slightly (split into 2 lines each) to not be visible to the PAUSE indexer. 2. Some other modules, such as DBI, also have multiple related package declarations in them; however, in the case of DBI, users never do the equivalent of "new" except with one package; other package objects are created in the context of an existing object. My situation is different than DBI, though, in that all package types are instantiated as objects in a stateless context. 3. I want to standardize my modules so all of the public inner classes either have the "::_" in their names or they all do not. I'm inclined to go "not", but wanted to get second opinions first. That's all for my questions at the moment. Thank you in advance for any advice or opinions you can give me. Have a good day. -- Darren Duncan From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Thu Mar 4 23:52:30 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] RFC: multi-package module best practices In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040304180445.01e6a530@shell2.webquarry.com> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040304180445.01e6a530@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: At 6:58 PM -0800 3/4/04, Peter Scott wrote: >These are questios I've wondered about as well. Do please copy >us/me on any useful answers. >-- >Peter Scott >Pacific Systems Design Technologies >http://www.perldebugged.com/ >*** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ I will do that. I didn't get any answers myself, yet. Maybe tomorrow. -- Darren Duncan From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Fri Mar 5 15:04:46 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] Re: RFC: multi-package module best practices In-Reply-To: <1078500738.1055.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1078500738.1055.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Hello Stephen, thank you for your feedback. At 10:32 AM -0500 3/5/04, Stephen Adkins (stephen.adkins@officevision.com) wrote: >You asked about "best practices." >If you have internally-used modules, just indicate in the documentation >that they are internally-used. Don't change the name to include >"::_::". Okay, so that answers one of my questions: You are saying that I can keep the couple related packages in one file but that they would not contain any "::_" in their package names; I would say in the documentation that the packages exist. >I looked through my /usr/local/lib/perl5 subdirectories and >don't see anyone else using the "_" directory in all the CPAN modules >I have installed. Have a look at the DBI module. It uses these 3 package names all throughout its code: "DBD::_::db", "DBD::_::st", "DBD::_::common". True, there are no subdirectories named "_", and that is because all of these packages are declared in the same file and not in files of their own. Stephen said (this text originally above the other quoted text): >I would recommend you start by putting them in three separate files. >(This also clears up all of the uncertainty about questions 3 and 4 >that I don't know the answers to.) Within Foo.pm, you can >"use Foo::Bar;" and "use Foo::Baz;" so the developer only has to >"use Foo;". Only combine these modules into one file if there is >some compelling reason to do so. These are some reasons that compelled me to combine them: 1. I don't want potential users to come along and, seeing multiple files, think that my module is a big scary framework; rather, I hope that they see a friendly single non-framework file that is easy to use. 2. Since the package pair is conceptually one piece, it seems more user friendly that there is a single bundle. The user just has one file to keep track of, whether moving or replacing or installing or uninstalling or referencing, etc. So unless the extras are optional, I see fewer modules as easier to manage. 3. In my mind, when you split code into multiple module-files, this is saying that each piece is completely separate, or that one is an extension of the other, or that one piece can be substituted for an alternative. Multiple files are great for optionality. I wanted to keep with one file because I do not see one piece as an extension of the other, or that it is an optional piece. 4. In each module there are a variety of constant values or utility functions that each package both uses; having them together in one file ensures that there is just one copy of each and that they all packages see the same thing. 5. The fact that I have multiple packages is a consequence of my decision to make the module object oriented and yet use two main types of data structures. If my module was function oriented then the module would have a single set of functions, where each function mainly works with one type of data structure, or in some cases works with both together. In an OO conceptualization, there are two types of distinct entities, Bar and Baz, each with their own properties and methods, but for practical purposes they are always "joined at the hip". From a user-programmer's point of view, they are using Foo, even if Foo is implemented in two pieces. The documentation also refers to it as a whole. So it seems logical to just have a Foo file; we would have just the one whether the module is object or function oriented. Thanks again Stephen. Any other opinions or questions out there? Good day. -- Darren Duncan From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Fri Mar 5 18:17:59 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] Re: RFC: multi-package module best practices Message-ID: Thanks for your reply, Perrin. At 4:29 PM -0500 3/5/04, Perrin Harkins (perrin@elem.com) wrote: >[] and in fact I am more scared when I see one big honking module file. In this case, each of the two components and their sums is small and/or medium-small with one piece being majority. Here is how the totals break down. The numbers include all code, whether methods or constant declarations, and code comments, but not POD. "total" is everything in the module, "shared" is common utilities or constant data, and the capitalized items are methods specific to the component package. Locale::KeyedText - total - 6K - shared - 1K - Message - 2K - Translator - 3K SQL::SyntaxModel - total - 72K - shared - 37K - Node - 31K - Container - 4K Rosetta (this is incomplete but stands to grow about 50% larger) - total - 25K - shared - 6K - Interface - 17K (main growth to be here) - Engine - 2K Suffice it to say, none of these look near a "big honking" size. (Certainly not like some multi-megabyte modules out there.) Perrin said: >I don't buy it. The majority of popular distributions contain more than >one module. This doesn't seem to be scaring anyone, [...] Splitting >your code up into manageable chunks is a good thing, and defining >multiple >packages in one file is very rarely a good idea. Despite what I said before, I can concede that some of my modules may indeed be better to split up into 3 pieces each. However, I only see that working with Locale::KeyedText and Rosetta. I do not see a split working so well with SQL::SyntaxModel. (I see it as somewhat ironic that it is the smallest modules of the modules that are easiest to find rationales for splitting.) Any further suggestions or comments? Thank you. -- Darren Duncan From Peter at PSDT.com Fri Mar 5 16:59:25 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] Victoria Perl Mongers regular meeting schedule and March talk Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040303152142.01e53878@shell2.webquarry.com> Hello. Hearing no dissension, I propose that we establish the third Tuesday of the month as our regular meeting time, secretary so note... wait, that's Nathanael, is he still here? :-) Tuesday March 16 will be our next meeting and Abram Hindle will talk about some very cool stuff he's been doing lately that I've been itching to see. He'll let the list know more details. I'll send out a reminder the day before as usual. Assume that the location will be CIT 120 unless notified otherwise. I have just been notified that my OSCON tutorial proposal ("Taming Legacy Perl") was accepted, so with the group's permission... or lack of objection... I would like to practice it on you for the April and May meetings. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Fri Mar 5 21:20:51 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] Victoria Perl Mongers regular meeting schedule and March talk In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040303152142.01e53878@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: Everything you said sounds good to me. I also propose that the web site be updated to say that there are regular meetings every third tuesday of the month, so people can plan for them in advance. The website is out of date, still saying that the November meeting is "next". -- Darren Duncan On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Peter Scott wrote: > Hello. Hearing no dissension, I propose that we establish the third > Tuesday of the month as our regular meeting time, secretary so note... > wait, that's Nathanael, is he still here? :-) > > Tuesday March 16 will be our next meeting and Abram Hindle will talk > about some very cool stuff he's been doing lately that I've been > itching to see. He'll let the list know more details. I'll send out a > reminder the day before as usual. Assume that the location will be CIT > 120 unless notified otherwise. > > I have just been notified that my OSCON tutorial proposal ("Taming > Legacy Perl") was accepted, so with the group's permission... or lack > of objection... I would like to practice it on you for the April and > May meetings. From abez at abez.ca Mon Mar 8 12:01:35 2004 From: abez at abez.ca (abez) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] NOT CIT120 now DSBC112 :( Message-ID: DSBC112 is the location of the next meeting :( abram -- abez ------------------------------------------ http://www.abez.ca/ Abram Hindle (abez@abez.ca) ------------------------------------------ abez From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Tue Mar 9 17:03:58 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] Re: RFC: multi-package module best practices Message-ID: This email is a follow-up to my emails of March 4th and 5th, all having the same email subject. Have a look at them to see the context for what I say here. I am writing to let any interested parties know what I actually did do concerning the matters I asked about, where there were several instances of multiple package declarations within a single module. The modules in question were: Locale::KeyedText, SQL::SyntaxModel, Rosetta. 1. I removed all of the "::_::" from the package names that contained it, so for example SQL::SyntaxModel::_::Node became SQL::SyntaxModel::Node. 2. I removed the obfuscation so all of the package names not get indexed. 3. Any "*::Shared" private packages were removed as their own package, and merged into the module name-sake package. 4. I added a documentation section called CLASSES IN THIS MODULE just beneath the DESCRIPTION in each module, to spell out what packages are declared, so someone knows what they can invoke and what names to not use for their own modules. 5. I did *not* split up the modules so that each package was in its own; it did not seem appropriate (though I won't rule it out some time in the future). The changed versions have all been uploaded to CPAN, yesterday or earlier. So thanks to the 3 of you that gave me feedback, and to all have a good day. This thread is now closed. -- Darren Duncan From Peter at PSDT.com Sat Mar 6 08:33:00 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] Victoria Perl Mongers March agenda Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040305183152.01e9e7e8@shell2.webquarry.com> This is what Abram's going to talk about on March 16: -------------- C Perl, C Perl Inline, C Perl XS, C Perl Guts A tutorial on the integration of C into perl development. Topics Discussed: XS Inline::C Perl Guts How to integrate C and perl. The reasoning behind integrating C and Perl code. Example code of C and perl integration will be presented as well an introduction into some of the perlguts which allow for better integration of C and perl. --------------- Very cool. I can hardly wait. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From Peter at PSDT.com Mon Mar 15 08:35:00 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] Victoria Perl Mongers meeting tomorrow at new location Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040305183347.01ee6410@shell2.webquarry.com> The Victoria Perl Mongers will meet tomorrow, Tuesday March 16, at 7pm at UVic's DSBC112 (*** note new location: http://www.uvic.ca/buildings/dsb.html). Abram Hindle will present on the exciting topic of: -------------- C Perl, C Perl Inline, C Perl XS, C Perl Guts A tutorial on the integration of C into perl development. Topics Discussed: XS Inline::C Perl Guts How to integrate C and perl. The reasoning behind integrating C and Perl code. Example code of C and perl integration will be presented as well an introduction into some of the perlguts which allow for better integration of C and perl. --------------- See you there! -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From Peter at PSDT.com Mon Mar 15 15:34:42 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] LinuxFest NorthWest - anyone want to fly? Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315123013.01f39610@shell2.webquarry.com> I'm contemplating going to the LinuxFest in Bellingham. With the Victoria Clipper not running due to the low season, the travel options mostly suck and appear to require two overnight stays... unless you fly. I checked into air charter; San Juan Airlines will do it for $350 USD each way for a plane holding 5 passengers, i.e., $140 USD each for the round trip. (I also called Rite Bros of Port Angeles; they're a bit more expensive.) I know that the *cheapest* way is for a bunch of people to crowd into a car and leave and return at ungodly hours; but that sort of thing ceased to appeal to me some years ago. I called several air charters with bases in Victoria (Hyack, Juan, NAV Air, Baxter, Canada Coastal), none of them would do it at all. Maybe one of you knows one I missed that will. So my question is whether there are 4 other people interested in this option: ~$185 CAD for air charter from Victoria Airport, figure we'd leave around 8am, looks like a short taxi ride at the other end (not included), return the same way at say 7pm. Squeak up if interested please. (I asked about their larger planes and for some reason, it works out cheaper to charter two of the smaller ones than a bigger one. Go figure.) -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From cconstan at csc.UVic.CA Mon Mar 15 16:22:59 2004 From: cconstan at csc.UVic.CA (Carl B. Constantine) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] LinuxFest NorthWest - anyone want to fly? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315123013.01f39610@shell2.webquarry.com> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315123013.01f39610@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: <20040315222259.GD1595@csc> *On Mon Mar 15, 2004 at 01:34:42PM -0800, Peter Scott (Peter@PSDT.com) wrote: > I'm contemplating going to the LinuxFest in Bellingham. With the > Victoria Clipper not running due to the low season, the travel options > mostly suck and appear to require two overnight stays... unless you fly. I'm driving over. It's not far. I'm going to make arrangements to stay at the Hampton in Bellingham and the college is not far from there. If anyone wants to ride with me (I can take 2 or 3 ppl) and split the cost, I'm game. Let me know. -- Carl B. Constantine University of Victoria Programmer Analyst http://www.csc.uvic.ca UNIX System Administrator Victoria, BC, Canada cconstan@csc.uvic.ca ELW A248, 721-8766 From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Mon Mar 15 17:13:23 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] LinuxFest NorthWest - anyone want to fly? In-Reply-To: <20040315222259.GD1595@csc> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315123013.01f39610@shell2.webquarry.com> <20040315222259.GD1595@csc> Message-ID: At 2:22 PM -0800 3/15/04, Carl B. Constantine wrote: >*On Mon Mar 15, 2004 at 01:34:42PM -0800, Peter Scott (Peter@PSDT.com) wrote: >> I'm contemplating going to the LinuxFest in Bellingham. With the >> Victoria Clipper not running due to the low season, the travel options >> mostly suck and appear to require two overnight stays... unless you fly. > >I'm driving over. It's not far. I'm going to make arrangements to stay >at the Hampton in Bellingham and the college is not far from there. If >anyone wants to ride with me (I can take 2 or 3 ppl) and split the cost, >I'm game. > >Let me know. This whole thing does appeal to me somewhat. And I have never been to a LinuxFest before. Somehow I expected to attend a Perl-specific event first. Still, I will need to know some other details such as when this event is and other relevant costs, whether for the conference itself or the hotel or the likely cost of gas. So I'll need more info before I can decide. Which I'll try to look up. However, it does seem like a low risk and low cost affair in the grand scheme of things. It's not like I'd be gone for 2 weeks or be paying 4 figures. So for this moment I'd say that I'm 60-70% sure that I can go, and will go with you two. Note: If you're driving, then you may be taking a ferry around Sidney or Swartz Bay, which is just a few minutes from where I live, so pickup/dropoff should be easy. Shall we talk about this more at the meeting tomorrow? -- Darren Duncan From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Mon Mar 15 17:17:55 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] LinuxFest NorthWest - anyone want to fly? Message-ID: Here's another possible option. Now that I've looked up some info, and see it's in a month, and that its organized partly by the Victoria LUG ... Could VLUG rent a bus for a day, and then they/we could collectively drive over in that? Might this be the cheapest or most efficient option? Or not? -- Darren Duncan From cconstan at csc.UVic.CA Mon Mar 15 17:19:24 2004 From: cconstan at csc.UVic.CA (Carl B. Constantine) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] LinuxFest NorthWest - anyone want to fly? In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315123013.01f39610@shell2.webquarry.com> <20040315222259.GD1595@csc> Message-ID: <20040315231924.GE1595@csc> *On Mon Mar 15, 2004 at 03:13:23PM -0800, Darren Duncan (darren@DarrenDuncan.net) wrote: > At 2:22 PM -0800 3/15/04, Carl B. Constantine wrote: > >*On Mon Mar 15, 2004 at 01:34:42PM -0800, Peter Scott (Peter@PSDT.com) > >wrote: > >> I'm contemplating going to the LinuxFest in Bellingham. With the > >> Victoria Clipper not running due to the low season, the travel options > >> mostly suck and appear to require two overnight stays... unless you fly. > > > >I'm driving over. It's not far. I'm going to make arrangements to stay > >at the Hampton in Bellingham and the college is not far from there. If > >anyone wants to ride with me (I can take 2 or 3 ppl) and split the cost, > >I'm game. > > > >Let me know. > > This whole thing does appeal to me somewhat. And I have never been > to a LinuxFest before. Somehow I expected to attend a Perl-specific > event first. > > Still, I will need to know some other details such as when this event > is and other relevant costs, whether for the conference itself or the > hotel or the likely cost of gas. > > So I'll need more info before I can decide. Which I'll try to look up. http://www.linuxfestnorthwest.org/ I'd be going over the afternoon before and helping set up. -- Carl B. Constantine University of Victoria Programmer Analyst http://www.csc.uvic.ca UNIX System Administrator Victoria, BC, Canada cconstan@csc.uvic.ca ELW A248, 721-8766 From Peter at PSDT.com Mon Mar 15 18:16:29 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] LinuxFest NorthWest - anyone want to fly? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315161507.01f58708@shell2.webquarry.com> At 03:17 PM 3/15/2004, Darren Duncan wrote: >Here's another possible option. > >Now that I've looked up some info, and see it's in a month, and that >its organized partly by the Victoria LUG ... > >Could VLUG rent a bus for a day, and then they/we could collectively >drive over in that? Might this be the cheapest or most efficient >option? Or not? Well, the reason I proposed flying is because it is fast. I figure the travel time by alternative means is 6 hours each way and since I get car sick easily when not driving it's dead time either way. So in my case, I'm looking to trade money for time. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Mon Mar 15 18:33:49 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: quoth Mark M: RE: [VPM] LinuxFest NorthWest - anyone want to fly? Message-ID: >From: "Mark McLaughlin" >To: "'Darren Duncan'" >Subject: RE: [VPM] LinuxFest NorthWest - anyone want to fly? >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:29:51 -0800 > > Peter wrote: > >>So in my case, I'm looking to trade money for time. > >Actually when you add ferry fees, gas contribution, food over 2 days, >hotel rates, etc, the cost difference to fly is not much at all. > >Mark McLaughlin >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Best Color Video Production CD-ROM Website Design >mailto:bcv@telus.net Ph. 250-744-4111 Fx. From abez at abez.ca Tue Mar 16 02:30:38 2004 From: abez at abez.ca (abez) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] Map To DSBC112 Message-ID: here's a map that might help you guys navigate UVIC. http://abez.ca/supernaut/DSBC112map.sxd.pdf -- abez ------------------------------------------ http://www.abez.ca/ Abram Hindle (abez@abez.ca) ------------------------------------------ abez From Peter at PSDT.com Wed Mar 17 20:06:33 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] IO::All Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040317180436.02042c58@shell2.webquarry.com> Here's the article on Ingy's IO::All, which I mentioned last night: http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2004/03/12/ioall.html Here's its CPAN entry: http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/IO-All-0.15/lib/IO/All.pm I'm looking forward to making use of this module. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Mon Mar 29 15:35:24 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] OT: David Pogue replaces Martha Stuart Message-ID: I saw this timely cartoon today and thought it was hilarious. It depicts David Pogue as the mid-season replacement for Martha Stuart (as the latter's in jail). http://joyoftech.com/joyoftech/index.html Enjoy! -- Darren Duncan From Peter at PSDT.com Tue Mar 30 13:13:15 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] Linuxfest - last call for flight Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040330110532.01ee0da0@shell2.webquarry.com> I got only one response from anyone (Mark) interested in sharing a plane to Bellingham for LinuxFest NorthWest, so unless 3 other people respond by the end of the week it's off. Recap the details: ~$185 CAD for air charter from Victoria Airport, figure we'd leave around 8am, looks like a short taxi ride at the other end (not included), return the same way at say 7pm. I doubt I'll go if I don't fly, too busy to take a night or two away right now. This option is worth considering by those people whose time is at a premium. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Tue Mar 30 14:06:15 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:11:33 2004 Subject: [VPM] Linuxfest - last call for flight In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040330110532.01ee0da0@shell2.webquarry.com> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040330110532.01ee0da0@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: Now that the event date has gotten closer, I don't think I'll be going at all. For one thing, I don't really have anything to share yet; that is the main reason. (Also, money is a bit tight at the moment.) However, I'll probably be interested in going to a later event, especially a Perl-centric one. -- Darren Duncan