From marcperryster at gmail.com Wed Nov 1 06:23:12 2017 From: marcperryster at gmail.com (Marc Perry) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 09:23:12 -0400 Subject: [tpm] I just received my monthly notification reminding me of my membership in this Mailing List Message-ID: <73CBAA98-DA05-493A-ADB4-2676B3F43D80@gmail.com> Hi, Last Thursday evening at the beginning of the Meet-up (I was participating online) I was searching through my Email archives and realized that I had not seen any traffic on this Toronto Perl Mongers mailing list since June 2017. However I did just receive the reminder, so it seems like something is working. Perhaps there was an explanatory Email regarding this list that I deleted without reading(?). Thanks, -- Marc Perry From olaf.alders at gmail.com Wed Nov 1 06:49:58 2017 From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 09:49:58 -0400 Subject: [tpm] I just received my monthly notification reminding me of my membership in this Mailing List In-Reply-To: <73CBAA98-DA05-493A-ADB4-2676B3F43D80@gmail.com> References: <73CBAA98-DA05-493A-ADB4-2676B3F43D80@gmail.com> Message-ID: > On Nov 1, 2017, at 9:23 AM, Marc Perry wrote: > > Hi, > > Last Thursday evening at the beginning of the Meet-up (I was participating online) I was searching through my Email archives and realized that I had not seen any traffic on this Toronto Perl Mongers mailing list since June 2017. However I did just receive the reminder, so it seems like something is working. > > Perhaps there was an explanatory Email regarding this list that I deleted without reading(?). > > Thanks, > > -- Marc Perry Hi Marc, Maybe it's going to your junk mail? You can catch up on things here: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/toronto-pm/ Best, Olaf From legrady at gmail.com Wed Nov 1 18:15:24 2017 From: legrady at gmail.com (Tom Legrady) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 21:15:24 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Nov 4 virtual hackathon In-Reply-To: <73CBAA98-DA05-493A-ADB4-2676B3F43D80@gmail.com> References: <73CBAA98-DA05-493A-ADB4-2676B3F43D80@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a804c5a-6d26-ebb5-1fec-506c364698dc@gmail.com> I saw a message a few days ago about a virtual, i.e. IRC based, Perl hackathon on Saturday, but I can't find the message. Does anyone have the info about this? Tom From talexb at gmail.com Wed Nov 8 17:03:31 2017 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 20:03:31 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Video of the October Perlmongers talks now available Message-ID: Hi All, I posted about this from the toperlmongers account, but don't see that message yet, so here is the URL for the October Perlmongers meeting from two weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of9xRjnlNqo Thanks to Stuart W for doing the necessary bit-wrangling to make this happen. We have one talk scheduled for the November meeting, and I'm working on getting clearance to do a talk of my own. And now I have to go and practice starting Google Hangouts. If you were at the October meeting, you'll know why. :) Alex -- Alex Beamish Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 Baritone, Board Member, Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com Certified Contest Administrator, Barbershop Harmony Society / www.barbershop.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamex1642 at gmail.com Fri Nov 10 19:32:02 2017 From: jamex1642 at gmail.com (James) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 00:02:02 -0330 Subject: [tpm] Perl 7 Message-ID: This is a post of humour. I've got the best name for Perl 6. +-1 From jamex1642 at gmail.com Sat Nov 11 07:23:13 2017 From: jamex1642 at gmail.com (James) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 11:53:13 -0330 Subject: [tpm] Perl 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: no responses so far, but honestly i'm only half joking. Summarizing the serious one half: * +-1 could be an operator (successor) in the Church-Turing thesis. * When talking about programming languages we are in fact programming them. (that's why we love Perl!) * If Perl 6 were named +-1 when talking about using it you would leave yourself room for improvement or an escape hatch. :D Meaning this (+-1) is declarative because we don't have enough data yet but we want the computer to do the work. * Perl modules typically end with a value of 1. Exit codes are crucial. * +-1 is pronounced "plus minus one" and means close enough in the sense of epsilon. * I don't think the +- operator is in use yet. * there is an inverse operator -+1 What I'm talking about makes most sense in the thermodynamic sense of entropy. To see why this is a sensible name for Perl 6 forget the details for a minute, and try to see the concept as involving only direction and magnitude. eg. it's a vector. The driving idea is one of reversibility. BIG QUOTE FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_entropy ---- Entropy is an important concept in the branch of science known as thermodynamics. The idea of "irreversibility" is central to the understanding of entropy. Everyone has an intuitive understanding of irreversibility. If one watches a movie of everyday life running forward and in reverse, it is easy to distinguish between the two. The movie running in reverse shows impossible things happening ? water jumping out of a glass into a pitcher above it, smoke going down a chimney, water in a glass freezing to form ice cubes, crashed cars reassembling themselves, and so on. The intuitive meaning of expressions such as "you can't unscramble an egg", or "you can't take the cream out of the coffee" is that these are irreversible processes. No matter how long you wait, the cream won't jump out of the coffee into the creamer. In thermodynamics, one says that the "forward" processes ? pouring water from a pitcher, smoke going up a chimney, etc. ? are "irreversible": they cannot happen in reverse. All real physical processes involving systems in everyday life, with many atoms or molecules, are irreversible. For an irreversible process in an isolated system (a system not subject to outside influence), the thermodynamic state variable known as entropy is never decreasing. In everyday life, there may be processes in which the increase of entropy is practically unobservable, almost zero. In these cases, a movie of the process run in reverse will not seem unlikely. For example, in a 1-second video of the collision of two billiard balls, it will be hard to distinguish the forward and the backward case, because the increase of entropy during that time is relatively small. In thermodynamics, one says that this process is practically "reversible", with an entropy increase that is practically zero. The statement of the fact that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases is known as the second law of thermodynamics. ---- Reaching for my algebra textbook [ http://www.hcm.uni-bonn.de/fileadmin/perrin/chap1.pdf ] An algebra A over k is a vector space over k together with a bilinear map A x A => A. x(y + z) = xy + xz (x + y)z = xz + yz for all (x,y,z) belonging to A^3 (ax)(by) = (ab)(xy) for all (a,b) belonging to K^2 and (x,y) belonging to A^2. I see this as a basic requirement for consistency. In the above k is the system you are modelling. The algebra represents k's "digital" parts. Wikipedia quoth [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisymmetric_relation] if R(a,b) and R(b,a), then a = b, As a simple example, the divisibility order on the natural numbers is an anti-symmetric relation. In this context, anti-symmetry means that the only way each of two numbers can be divisible by the other is if the two are, in fact, the same number; equivalently, if n and m are distinct and n is a factor of m, then m cannot be a factor of n. --- The reason I mention this is that there the order of operands in typical multiplication over integers is undefined. For every algebra, A there is an opposite algebra Aop where (x,y) means yx instead of xy. --- And I've gone to far in one step, but if you think I'm wack or something check this out, it's a good read: https://projecteuclid.org/euclid.bams/1183548220 On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 12:02 AM, James wrote: > This is a post of humour. > > I've got the best name for Perl 6. > > +-1 From quantum.mechanic.1964 at gmail.com Sat Nov 11 12:20:58 2017 From: quantum.mechanic.1964 at gmail.com (Quantum Mechanic) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 20:20:58 +0000 Subject: [tpm] Perl 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E9F26EF-8603-4939-8528-1123F08B5DFC@gmail.com> ?1 Cheers, QM From zoffix at zoffix.com Tue Nov 14 03:46:11 2017 From: zoffix at zoffix.com (zoffix at zoffix.com) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:46:11 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Perl 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20171114064611.Horde.SNS2H2z9mvTWRBDr5f6Tghn@echo.gendns.com> Perl 7's already taken, bruh! https://github.com/perl7/perl7/ :) Sorry to say, but "+-1" sounds like a terrible name to me. Even worse than having a digit and a space as part of the name, it has two symbols and an ambiguity on how to spell them: is it "+-" or "?". Also: * It can't be used as an identifier in many of the languages, so anytime anyone would do Perl 6 related work in another language they'd have to bastardize the name. This is the issue that Larry pointed out with "6lang" as the name. * It doesn't look like a name, so it'll inevitably be confusing when used in brochures and posters. This is especially a pain point because currently we're looking for an *alias*, not a fully new name, to be mostly used by Marketing. * It reminds me about "+1"/"-1" convention used to vote on things in places like GitHub. I suspect "+-1" in that scheme would be interpreted as "indecisive". Also, some comments on your comments on reasoning: * Perl 6's modules do not need to end with `1` * There's no `+-` operator, but `+-1` is two prefix operators But thanks for thinking about it :) I'll add it to the pile of all the other name suggestions to look over during 6.d language release. Cheers, ZZ Quoting James : > no responses so far, but honestly i'm only half joking. > > Summarizing the serious one half: > > * +-1 could be an operator (successor) in the Church-Turing thesis. > * When talking about programming languages we are in fact programming > them. (that's why we love Perl!) > * If Perl 6 were named +-1 when talking about using it you would leave > yourself room for improvement or an escape hatch. :D > Meaning this (+-1) is declarative because we don't have enough data > yet but we want the computer to do the work. > * Perl modules typically end with a value of 1. Exit codes are crucial. > * +-1 is pronounced "plus minus one" and means close enough in the > sense of epsilon. > * I don't think the +- operator is in use yet. > * there is an inverse operator -+1 > > What I'm talking about makes most sense in the thermodynamic sense > of entropy. > To see why this is a sensible name for Perl 6 forget the details for > a minute, > and try to see the concept as involving only direction and magnitude. > eg. it's a vector. > The driving idea is one of reversibility. > > > BIG QUOTE FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_entropy > ---- > > Entropy is an important concept in the branch of science known as > thermodynamics. The idea of "irreversibility" is central to the > understanding of entropy. Everyone has an intuitive understanding of > irreversibility. If one watches a movie of everyday life running > forward and in reverse, it is easy to distinguish between the two. The > movie running in reverse shows impossible things happening ? water > jumping out of a glass into a pitcher above it, smoke going down a > chimney, water in a glass freezing to form ice cubes, crashed cars > reassembling themselves, and so on. The intuitive meaning of > expressions such as "you can't unscramble an egg", or "you can't take > the cream out of the coffee" is that these are irreversible processes. > No matter how long you wait, the cream won't jump out of the coffee > into the creamer. > > In thermodynamics, one says that the "forward" processes ? pouring > water from a pitcher, smoke going up a chimney, etc. ? are > "irreversible": they cannot happen in reverse. All real physical > processes involving systems in everyday life, with many atoms or > molecules, are irreversible. For an irreversible process in an > isolated system (a system not subject to outside influence), the > thermodynamic state variable known as entropy is never decreasing. In > everyday life, there may be processes in which the increase of entropy > is practically unobservable, almost zero. In these cases, a movie of > the process run in reverse will not seem unlikely. For example, in a > 1-second video of the collision of two billiard balls, it will be hard > to distinguish the forward and the backward case, because the increase > of entropy during that time is relatively small. In thermodynamics, > one says that this process is practically "reversible", with an > entropy increase that is practically zero. The statement of the fact > that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases is known as the > second law of thermodynamics. > > > ---- > > > Reaching for my algebra textbook [ > http://www.hcm.uni-bonn.de/fileadmin/perrin/chap1.pdf ] > > An algebra A over k is a vector space over k together with a bilinear > map A x A => A. > x(y + z) = xy + xz > (x + y)z = xz + yz for all (x,y,z) belonging to A^3 > (ax)(by) = (ab)(xy) for all (a,b) belonging to K^2 and (x,y) > belonging to A^2. > > I see this as a basic requirement for consistency. In the above k is > the system you are modelling. > The algebra represents k's "digital" parts. > > Wikipedia quoth [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisymmetric_relation] > > if R(a,b) and R(b,a), then a = b, > > As a simple example, the divisibility order on the natural numbers is > an anti-symmetric relation. In this context, anti-symmetry means that > the only way each of two numbers can be divisible by the other is if > the two are, in fact, the same number; equivalently, if n and m are > distinct and n is a factor of m, then m cannot be a factor of n. > > --- > The reason I mention this is that there the order of operands in > typical multiplication over integers is undefined. > For every algebra, A there is an opposite algebra Aop where (x,y) > means yx instead of xy. > > --- > And I've gone to far in one step, but if you think I'm wack or > something check this out, it's a good read: > > > https://projecteuclid.org/euclid.bams/1183548220 > > On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 12:02 AM, James wrote: >> This is a post of humour. >> >> I've got the best name for Perl 6. >> >> +-1 > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm From quantum.mechanic.1964 at gmail.com Tue Nov 14 06:16:45 2017 From: quantum.mechanic.1964 at gmail.com (Quantum Mechanic) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 14:16:45 +0000 Subject: [tpm] Perl 7 In-Reply-To: <20171114064611.Horde.SNS2H2z9mvTWRBDr5f6Tghn@echo.gendns.com> References: <20171114064611.Horde.SNS2H2z9mvTWRBDr5f6Tghn@echo.gendns.com> Message-ID: <6329B17A-0BA7-460D-96B8-3071181D5304@gmail.com> ZZ, Your attempt to use logic in an emotional/political space is endearing! 3 snaps! ;) Cheers, QM > On Nov 14, 2017, at 11:46 AM, zoffix at zoffix.com wrote: > > > > Perl 7's already taken, bruh! https://github.com/perl7/perl7/ :) > > Sorry to say, but "+-1" sounds like a terrible name to me. Even worse than having a digit and a space as part of the name, it has two > symbols and an ambiguity on how to spell them: is it "+-" or "?". Also: > > * It can't be used as an identifier in many of the languages, so anytime anyone would do Perl 6 related > work in another language they'd have to bastardize the name. This is the issue that Larry pointed out with "6lang" as the name. > * It doesn't look like a name, so it'll inevitably be confusing when used in brochures and posters. This is especially > a pain point because currently we're looking for an *alias*, not a fully new name, to be mostly used by Marketing. > * It reminds me about "+1"/"-1" convention used to vote on things in places like GitHub. I suspect "+-1" in that scheme would be interpreted as "indecisive". > > Also, some comments on your comments on reasoning: > * Perl 6's modules do not need to end with `1` > * There's no `+-` operator, but `+-1` is two prefix operators > > But thanks for thinking about it :) I'll add it to the pile of all the other name suggestions to look over during 6.d language release. > > Cheers, > ZZ > > > Quoting James : > >> no responses so far, but honestly i'm only half joking. >> >> Summarizing the serious one half: >> >> * +-1 could be an operator (successor) in the Church-Turing thesis. >> * When talking about programming languages we are in fact programming >> them. (that's why we love Perl!) >> * If Perl 6 were named +-1 when talking about using it you would leave >> yourself room for improvement or an escape hatch. :D >> Meaning this (+-1) is declarative because we don't have enough data >> yet but we want the computer to do the work. >> * Perl modules typically end with a value of 1. Exit codes are crucial. >> * +-1 is pronounced "plus minus one" and means close enough in the >> sense of epsilon. >> * I don't think the +- operator is in use yet. >> * there is an inverse operator -+1 >> >> What I'm talking about makes most sense in the thermodynamic sense of entropy. >> To see why this is a sensible name for Perl 6 forget the details for a minute, >> and try to see the concept as involving only direction and magnitude. >> eg. it's a vector. >> The driving idea is one of reversibility. >> >> >> BIG QUOTE FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_entropy >> ---- >> >> Entropy is an important concept in the branch of science known as >> thermodynamics. The idea of "irreversibility" is central to the >> understanding of entropy. Everyone has an intuitive understanding of >> irreversibility. If one watches a movie of everyday life running >> forward and in reverse, it is easy to distinguish between the two. The >> movie running in reverse shows impossible things happening ? water >> jumping out of a glass into a pitcher above it, smoke going down a >> chimney, water in a glass freezing to form ice cubes, crashed cars >> reassembling themselves, and so on. The intuitive meaning of >> expressions such as "you can't unscramble an egg", or "you can't take >> the cream out of the coffee" is that these are irreversible processes. >> No matter how long you wait, the cream won't jump out of the coffee >> into the creamer. >> >> In thermodynamics, one says that the "forward" processes ? pouring >> water from a pitcher, smoke going up a chimney, etc. ? are >> "irreversible": they cannot happen in reverse. All real physical >> processes involving systems in everyday life, with many atoms or >> molecules, are irreversible. For an irreversible process in an >> isolated system (a system not subject to outside influence), the >> thermodynamic state variable known as entropy is never decreasing. In >> everyday life, there may be processes in which the increase of entropy >> is practically unobservable, almost zero. In these cases, a movie of >> the process run in reverse will not seem unlikely. For example, in a >> 1-second video of the collision of two billiard balls, it will be hard >> to distinguish the forward and the backward case, because the increase >> of entropy during that time is relatively small. In thermodynamics, >> one says that this process is practically "reversible", with an >> entropy increase that is practically zero. The statement of the fact >> that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases is known as the >> second law of thermodynamics. >> >> >> ---- >> >> >> Reaching for my algebra textbook [ >> http://www.hcm.uni-bonn.de/fileadmin/perrin/chap1.pdf ] >> >> An algebra A over k is a vector space over k together with a bilinear >> map A x A => A. >> x(y + z) = xy + xz >> (x + y)z = xz + yz for all (x,y,z) belonging to A^3 >> (ax)(by) = (ab)(xy) for all (a,b) belonging to K^2 and (x,y) belonging to A^2. >> >> I see this as a basic requirement for consistency. In the above k is >> the system you are modelling. >> The algebra represents k's "digital" parts. >> >> Wikipedia quoth [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisymmetric_relation] >> >> if R(a,b) and R(b,a), then a = b, >> >> As a simple example, the divisibility order on the natural numbers is >> an anti-symmetric relation. In this context, anti-symmetry means that >> the only way each of two numbers can be divisible by the other is if >> the two are, in fact, the same number; equivalently, if n and m are >> distinct and n is a factor of m, then m cannot be a factor of n. >> >> --- >> The reason I mention this is that there the order of operands in >> typical multiplication over integers is undefined. >> For every algebra, A there is an opposite algebra Aop where (x,y) >> means yx instead of xy. >> >> --- >> And I've gone to far in one step, but if you think I'm wack or >> something check this out, it's a good read: >> >> >> https://projecteuclid.org/euclid.bams/1183548220 >> >>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 12:02 AM, James wrote: >>> This is a post of humour. >>> >>> I've got the best name for Perl 6. >>> >>> +-1 >> _______________________________________________ >> toronto-pm mailing list >> toronto-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm From jamex1642 at gmail.com Tue Nov 14 10:07:18 2017 From: jamex1642 at gmail.com (James) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 14:37:18 -0330 Subject: [tpm] Fwd: Perl 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20171114064611.Horde.SNS2H2z9mvTWRBDr5f6Tghn@echo.gendns.com> Message-ID: Meant to reply to the list as well.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: James Date: Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [tpm] Perl 7 To: zoffix at zoffix.com On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:16 AM, wrote: > > > Perl 7's already taken, bruh! https://github.com/perl7/perl7/ :) > > Sorry to say, but "+-1" sounds like a terrible name to me. Even worse than > having a digit and a space as part of the name, it has two > symbols and an ambiguity on how to spell them: is it "+-" or "?". Also: It's only a suggestion, so I'm happy you responded. To clarify, it's +-1. It's a pun of sorts, in the sense that Perl is an onion, and an abuse of notation for the successor (predecessor) functions of lambda calculus. What follows is only a hypothesis. I reserve the right to retract my statements. In the words of Alan J Perlis: I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customers got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more. Quoted in The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs by Hal Abelson, Gerald Jay Sussman and Julie Sussman (McGraw-Hill, 2nd edition, 1996). The reason I snarfed the wiki quote on entropy is that we should be looking, at least in theory, slicing entropy in the sense that UNIX slices processor time between processes. Computationally, and computer languages are all about expressing computation, the +-1 operator is where I think things are headed. Does Perl 6 exist because of Perl 5, or the other way around? Does a 386 exist because of some super computer built way into the future, or the other way around? Crazy shit. It might be. However it may be, technology is only a means to a end. I included a link to a article by Mr Kleene that suggests that there is an computable number, from which all algorithms can be defined. It's described right in the abstract of that paper. I think I want to be focussed on expressing that number. That's my motivation. There is a such a thing as statistical mechanics, a branch of physics that deals directly with a universal indicator called entropy. I think this looks similar to way category theory deals with functions. [http://repository.cmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2846&context=compsci] I suggested the name because I wanted to grasp the notions of close enough, when talking about Perl; can we talk about both Perl and Perl 6 at the same time, or for that matter Perl 7. > * It can't be used as an identifier in many of the languages, so anytime > anyone would do Perl 6 related > work in another language they'd have to bastardize the name. This is the > issue that Larry pointed out with "6lang" as the name. Good point. > * It doesn't look like a name, so it'll inevitably be confusing when used in > brochures and posters. This is especially > a pain point because currently we're looking for an *alias*, not a fully > new name, to be mostly used by Marketing. Another good point. I wasn't thinking about marketing exactly. But it could work the other way as well. C++ is a similar name to +-1, and it's popular. Also, wondering how is the identifier problem described above currently dealt with in respect to C++. Just a joke here: C++ = C++; > * It reminds me about "+1"/"-1" convention used to vote on things in places > like GitHub. I suspect "+-1" in that scheme would be interpreted as > "indecisive". > Now that is something akin to what I'm thinking; Consensus is useful notation for a language. > Also, some comments on your comments on reasoning: > * Perl 6's modules do not need to end with `1` > * There's no `+-` operator, but `+-1` is two prefix operators > Maybe we are sitting on a interrupted stack, and it's in polish form. But technically you are right, at this point I'm just imagining an operator that looks like +-1. I have a friend who is a math professor and he usually never knows what I'm talking about either. It's up to me to make it clear. Sorry for being obtuse. > But thanks for thinking about it :) I'll add it to the pile of all the other > name suggestions to look over during 6.d language release. That's all anyone could hope for. > > Cheers, > ZZ > > Cheers, James > Quoting James : > >> no responses so far, but honestly i'm only half joking. >> >> Summarizing the serious one half: >> >> * +-1 could be an operator (successor) in the Church-Turing thesis. >> * When talking about programming languages we are in fact programming >> them. (that's why we love Perl!) >> * If Perl 6 were named +-1 when talking about using it you would leave >> yourself room for improvement or an escape hatch. :D >> Meaning this (+-1) is declarative because we don't have enough data >> yet but we want the computer to do the work. >> * Perl modules typically end with a value of 1. Exit codes are crucial. >> * +-1 is pronounced "plus minus one" and means close enough in the >> sense of epsilon. >> * I don't think the +- operator is in use yet. >> * there is an inverse operator -+1 >> >> What I'm talking about makes most sense in the thermodynamic sense of >> entropy. >> To see why this is a sensible name for Perl 6 forget the details for a >> minute, >> and try to see the concept as involving only direction and magnitude. >> eg. it's a vector. >> The driving idea is one of reversibility. >> >> >> BIG QUOTE FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_entropy >> ---- >> >> Entropy is an important concept in the branch of science known as >> thermodynamics. The idea of "irreversibility" is central to the >> understanding of entropy. Everyone has an intuitive understanding of >> irreversibility. If one watches a movie of everyday life running >> forward and in reverse, it is easy to distinguish between the two. The >> movie running in reverse shows impossible things happening ? water >> jumping out of a glass into a pitcher above it, smoke going down a >> chimney, water in a glass freezing to form ice cubes, crashed cars >> reassembling themselves, and so on. The intuitive meaning of >> expressions such as "you can't unscramble an egg", or "you can't take >> the cream out of the coffee" is that these are irreversible processes. >> No matter how long you wait, the cream won't jump out of the coffee >> into the creamer. >> >> In thermodynamics, one says that the "forward" processes ? pouring >> water from a pitcher, smoke going up a chimney, etc. ? are >> "irreversible": they cannot happen in reverse. All real physical >> processes involving systems in everyday life, with many atoms or >> molecules, are irreversible. For an irreversible process in an >> isolated system (a system not subject to outside influence), the >> thermodynamic state variable known as entropy is never decreasing. In >> everyday life, there may be processes in which the increase of entropy >> is practically unobservable, almost zero. In these cases, a movie of >> the process run in reverse will not seem unlikely. For example, in a >> 1-second video of the collision of two billiard balls, it will be hard >> to distinguish the forward and the backward case, because the increase >> of entropy during that time is relatively small. In thermodynamics, >> one says that this process is practically "reversible", with an >> entropy increase that is practically zero. The statement of the fact >> that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases is known as the >> second law of thermodynamics. >> >> >> ---- >> >> >> Reaching for my algebra textbook [ >> http://www.hcm.uni-bonn.de/fileadmin/perrin/chap1.pdf ] >> >> An algebra A over k is a vector space over k together with a bilinear >> map A x A => A. >> x(y + z) = xy + xz >> (x + y)z = xz + yz for all (x,y,z) belonging to A^3 >> (ax)(by) = (ab)(xy) for all (a,b) belonging to K^2 and (x,y) belonging to >> A^2. >> >> I see this as a basic requirement for consistency. In the above k is >> the system you are modelling. >> The algebra represents k's "digital" parts. >> >> Wikipedia quoth [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisymmetric_relation] >> >> if R(a,b) and R(b,a), then a = b, >> >> As a simple example, the divisibility order on the natural numbers is >> an anti-symmetric relation. In this context, anti-symmetry means that >> the only way each of two numbers can be divisible by the other is if >> the two are, in fact, the same number; equivalently, if n and m are >> distinct and n is a factor of m, then m cannot be a factor of n. >> >> --- >> The reason I mention this is that there the order of operands in >> typical multiplication over integers is undefined. >> For every algebra, A there is an opposite algebra Aop where (x,y) >> means yx instead of xy. >> >> --- >> And I've gone to far in one step, but if you think I'm wack or >> something check this out, it's a good read: >> >> >> https://projecteuclid.org/euclid.bams/1183548220 >> >> On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 12:02 AM, James wrote: >>> >>> This is a post of humour. >>> >>> I've got the best name for Perl 6. >>> >>> +-1 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> toronto-pm mailing list >> toronto-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > > > From fulko.hew at gmail.com Thu Nov 23 07:21:25 2017 From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 10:21:25 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Youtube video test Message-ID: I got the Youtube message about your link, joined it, and sent a message. And your question about the video link. I just clicked on the video, (which (is now) a recording for me was: https://youtu.be/0oqFD7ST5Pc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb at gmail.com Sat Nov 25 19:30:12 2017 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:30:12 -0500 Subject: [tpm] December meeting is a Social! Message-ID: Hi All, Our happy little group usually gets together in December for a beer or two, at the lovely spot C'est What, just East of Front and Church, on the South side. I can see two Thursdays before Christmas that would work, and another one after Christmas: Dec 14: Nice and early, but just two weeks after the November meeting. Dec 21: Probably a great time to get together for a drink -- you could get in some last minute shopping on the way there. Dec 28: Truly the last Thursday in the month, and after the Christmas rush. We don't have to make a decision any time soon, but December does get a bit busy, so keep these dates in mind. Cheers, Alex -- Alex Beamish Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 Baritone, Board Member, Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com Certified Contest Administrator, Barbershop Harmony Society / www.barbershop.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From legrady at gmail.com Sat Nov 25 21:56:58 2017 From: legrady at gmail.com (Tom Legrady) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:56:58 -0500 Subject: [tpm] December meeting is a Social! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6fb7c712-0561-3ad5-dadc-3fdd0d217238@gmail.com> 28 is my birthday, so I'll be expecting presents ... Rolls Royce, $65,000 Phase One digital camera, .... On 2017-11-25 10:30 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi All, > > Our happy little group usually gets together in December for a beer or > two, at the lovely spot C'est What, just East of Front and Church, on > the South side. > > I can see two Thursdays before Christmas that would work, and another > one after Christmas: > Dec 14: Nice and early, but just two weeks after the November meeting. > Dec 21: Probably a great time to get together for a drink -- you could > get in some last minute shopping on the way there. > Dec 28: Truly the last Thursday in the month, and after the Christmas > rush. > > We don't have to make a decision any time soon, but December does get > a bit busy, so keep these dates in mind. > > Cheers, > > Alex > > -- > Alex Beamish > > Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 > Baritone, Board Member, Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / > www.northernlightschorus.com > Certified Contest Administrator, Barbershop Harmony Society / > www.barbershop.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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