From arocker at Vex.Net Tue Feb 1 07:43:44 2011 From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 10:43:44 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Usage Based Billing - What you should know.. In-Reply-To: <20110131212246.GA16156@watson-wilson.ca> References: <20110131212246.GA16156@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <55e7e133a02e0a8be45a55b28ad81b14.squirrel@mail.vex.net> > The last mile monopoly in Canada is certainly a problem. However, the > idea of usage billing is not a bad one. It works for water, electricity > and natural gas. > There is one difference, though between those and Internet traffic; the cost model. All have some combination of virtually fixed infrastructure cost and usage-related costs. Water, electricity and gas all involve the producer in some degree of effort, related to the volume of consumption. For bits, especially when provided by somebody other than the network provider, the marginal cost has to be practically nil. That argues for high access fees and little or no usage charge. The problem is rationing access. A free good generally is in almost infinite demand, which eventually means the system becomes clogged. Then the argument becomes about expanding the system, (and who pays for it), or imposing some sort of throttle on users to keep the demand within bounds. From arocker at Vex.Net Tue Feb 1 07:43:44 2011 From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 10:43:44 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Usage Based Billing - What you should know.. In-Reply-To: <20110131212246.GA16156@watson-wilson.ca> References: <20110131212246.GA16156@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <55e7e133a02e0a8be45a55b28ad81b14.squirrel@mail.vex.net> > The last mile monopoly in Canada is certainly a problem. However, the > idea of usage billing is not a bad one. It works for water, electricity > and natural gas. > There is one difference, though between those and Internet traffic; the cost model. All have some combination of virtually fixed infrastructure cost and usage-related costs. Water, electricity and gas all involve the producer in some degree of effort, related to the volume of consumption. For bits, especially when provided by somebody other than the network provider, the marginal cost has to be practically nil. That argues for high access fees and little or no usage charge. The problem is rationing access. A free good generally is in almost infinite demand, which eventually means the system becomes clogged. Then the argument becomes about expanding the system, (and who pays for it), or imposing some sort of throttle on users to keep the demand within bounds. From abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es Tue Feb 1 08:25:58 2011 From: abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es (Abram Hindle) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 11:25:58 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Usage Based Billing - What you should know.. In-Reply-To: <55e7e133a02e0a8be45a55b28ad81b14.squirrel@mail.vex.net> (sfid-20110201_104905_269104_69793C4C) References: <20110131212246.GA16156@watson-wilson.ca> <55e7e133a02e0a8be45a55b28ad81b14.squirrel@mail.vex.net> (sfid-20110201_104905_269104_69793C4C) Message-ID: <4D483416.3090403@softwareprocess.es> On 11-02-01 10:43 AM, arocker at Vex.Net wrote: >> The last mile monopoly in Canada is certainly a problem. However, the >> idea of usage billing is not a bad one. It works for water, electricity >> and natural gas. In this section I argue that I have been using usage billing in the past and now I am being ripped off: With TekSavvy I have been using usage based billing for a long time. I had a 200GB cap. To get that same cap it would cost me $20 extra now. Why should I accept this? I didn't have unlimited before I had 200gb. Now I have 25gb. How is that fair. When did the cost of bandwidth suddenly change so harshly to deserve a markup of multiple orders of magnitude? Let me be perfectly clear, I am getting LESS now than before. I was limited before and now I've been limited multiple orders of magnitude or forced to pay much more to not even reach pre-UBB allowance. So please accept the fact that many of us were paying usage based billing. If I went over, I paid. In this section I argue about the statistical distributions of usage and how "power-users" are a fundamental part of the customer base and ISPs know this: As well, the distribution of use of this kind of service will always be powerlaw-like. That means it is scale free. That means no matter how many of the power users you remove, you will still have power users and the distribution will look same except the maximum will be different. The distribution looks the same at all scales. Thus it is disingenuous to argue that a few bad apples ruin it for everyone else. Everyone else wasn't using that much anyways and the ISPs knew it. In this section I illustrate where the Rogers bandwidth is likely going: BTW I heard a rumour that the Rogers DVR boxes use 4TB a month if you leave it on 24/7. 5040hrs, it depends on the bitrate. Regardless, even at 3 hrs a day that's still 500GB/mo. Do they charge you usage based billing for television programming? At least Rogers has the bandwidth and capacity, they've just dedicated it to a dying medium. In this section I show how you have no power but Bell and Rogers get to visit the minister of industry (ask yourself, when is the last time a citizens group concerned with issues like this met with the minister of industry): http://lobbywatcher.ca/lobby.php?minfull=Clement,Tony&sortorder=date_sub http://pastebin.com/nDticBw9 It's not just the fault of the CRTC the current government is completely complicit (and are responsible for the CRTC). abram -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 262 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From daniel at benoy.name Tue Feb 1 10:48:27 2011 From: daniel at benoy.name (daniel at benoy.name) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 13:48:27 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Usage Based Billing - What you should know.. In-Reply-To: <4D483416.3090403@softwareprocess.es> References: "" <20110131212246.GA16156@watson-wilson.ca> <55e7e133a02e0a8be45a55b28ad81b14.squirrel@mail.vex.net> (sfid-20110201_104905_269104_69793C4C) <4D483416.3090403@softwareprocess.es> Message-ID: <7cb895e690c9d6aada46d2edf9f7ccdf@benoy.name> > Let me be perfectly clear, I am getting LESS now than before. I was > limited before and now I've been limited multiple orders of magnitude > or > forced to pay much more to not even reach pre-UBB allowance. Until the recent decision, third party wholesale ISPs like Teksavvy paid a flat rate per subscriber. Bell and Rogers would argue that a flat rate allows them to escape much of the costs of providing service, if the customer is a bandwidth abuser. The recent CRTC decision, they would say, only allows them to charge a fair rate for bandwidth use and prevent third party providers from becoming a safe haven for bandwidth abusers at the expense of Bell and Rogers. Of course, that argument doesn't invalidate the evidence that they're vastly overcharging, and if bandwidth truly costs that much on their network, then their network is antiquated garbage. Perhaps rather than maintaining their equipment, they decided to keep the same crap and just charge punitive rates whenever someone transfers more than 25 gigs in a month. From mike at stok.ca Thu Feb 3 04:35:11 2011 From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 07:35:11 -0500 Subject: [tpm] February meeting ideas Message-ID: <78643648-24EC-482A-B155-37044BA6BCDA@stok.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At January's meeting someone suggested some kind of job / employment round-table for the February meeting. This email is intended to get some responses on the list. I thought some of the areas it might cover could include: * Skills to complement Perl (other languages, other areas of IT interest) * Interview tips and techniques (candidate's perspective) * Interview tips and techniques (interviewer's perspective) * Impressions of the Toronto area jobs market * War stories Do you think this has merit? Is it a whole meeting or half a meeting? If it does have merit then will someone volunteer as emcee? Mike - -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk1KoP8ACgkQnsTBwAWZE9roDwCeITvo2f2iYde9D1OhPCLfx8vo aMQAmQFG/NT/3tNqbzZLszKq815t9SWG =+Q7e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mike at stok.ca Thu Feb 3 05:04:07 2011 From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:04:07 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 After January's meeting we decamped to Burgundys, and it was unusually full. What are other people's thoughts on trying other bars within walking distance of the Yonge / Bloor intersection for post-meeting venues? What do other people consider walking distance? A couple of places I know and quite like are: * The Spotted Dick - 81 Bloor St E. 170 m from Yonge and Bloor (2 minutes walk according to google maps) * The Artful Dodger - 12 Isabella St 350 m from Yonge and Bloor (4 minutes walk according to google maps) Both these places have tolerable levels of noise in my experience, and both have wi-fi. Anyone have any other ideas for around Yonge / Bloor? Anyone have opinions about what's desirable in a post-meeting venue? Anyone have feelings one way or the other about trying another place after the February and / or March meetings? Regards, Mike - -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk1Kp8gACgkQnsTBwAWZE9qLPACgvrYfiv6rkpw6WuZyHK8oob0y pmUAoIL2YK60qs3glWbO1sIoH2rMlJbN =LwXo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fulko.hew at gmail.com Thu Feb 3 05:36:37 2011 From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:36:37 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:04 AM, Mike Stok wrote: > > After January's meeting we decamped to Burgundys, and it was unusually > full. What are other people's thoughts on trying other bars within walking > distance of the Yonge / Bloor intersection for post-meeting venues? > > What do other people consider walking distance? > > A couple of places I know and quite like are: > > * The Spotted Dick - 81 Bloor St E. 170 m from Yonge and Bloor (2 minutes > walk according to google maps) > I'd vote for the Spotted Dick, only because its closer to where I need to go, and we've been there before, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at stok.ca Thu Feb 3 06:14:49 2011 From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:14:49 -0500 Subject: [tpm] git-flow screencast Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Apropos Alex Beamish's recent presentation to TPM: I was listening to the Ruby5 podcast (5 minutes, not version 5), and they mentioned a git-flow screencast. It's off http://www.codesherpas.com/publications and I plan to watch it some time today. Mike - -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk1KuFkACgkQnsTBwAWZE9pHIgCeI6ds1BuNLqF7mBYW9Cqxwh2x 7j0AniPYUNfS64Hk5QNlRWP/1oCErduf =Yl3h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jztam at yahoo.com Thu Feb 3 08:49:50 2011 From: jztam at yahoo.com (J Z Tam) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:49:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <704542.58135.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> IMO, I can not hear 60% of what is being said at 5 feet away, at Burgundy's even when it is 1/4 full.? However, the food at Burgundy's is consistently well presented. Voting for any venue with less background noise level, and a darkSkankyAle ;-) I? don't mind walking for 10mins After we are dismissed, since I sit on my ass.embly all day. and also, Volunteer to do recon at? the 3 bars on Cumberland. /jordan --- On Thu, 2/3/11, Mike Stok wrote: From: Mike Stok Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues To: "Toronto Perl Mongers" Received: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 8:04 AM -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 After January's meeting we decamped to Burgundys, and it was unusually full.? What are other people's thoughts on trying other bars within walking distance of the Yonge / Bloor intersection for post-meeting venues? What do other people consider walking distance? A couple of places I know and quite like are: * The Spotted Dick - 81 Bloor St E.? 170 m from Yonge and Bloor (2 minutes walk according to google maps) * The Artful Dodger - 12 Isabella St? 350 m from Yonge and Bloor (4 minutes walk according to google maps) Both these places have tolerable levels of noise in my experience, and both have wi-fi. Anyone have any other ideas for around Yonge / Bloor?? Anyone have opinions about what's desirable in a post-meeting venue? Anyone have feelings one way or the other about trying another place after the February and / or March meetings? Regards, Mike - -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk1Kp8gACgkQnsTBwAWZE9qLPACgvrYfiv6rkpw6WuZyHK8oob0y pmUAoIL2YK60qs3glWbO1sIoH2rMlJbN =LwXo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ toronto-pm mailing list toronto-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From olaf at vilerichard.com Thu Feb 3 08:55:22 2011 From: olaf at vilerichard.com (Olaf Alders) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 11:55:22 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3914946F-87AC-4E32-808D-DA5B3D81C464@vilerichard.com> I have no sentimental attachment to Burgundy's. I'm all for a change of venues. -- Olaf Alders olaf at vilerichard.com http://vilerichard.com -- folk rock http://twitter.com/vilerichard http://cdbaby.com/cd/vilerichard From ioncache at gmail.com Thu Feb 3 09:09:00 2011 From: ioncache at gmail.com (Mark Jubenville) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:09:00 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03bc01cbc3c5$0dc44010$294cc030$@com> I'm fine with either of the choices Mike suggested. In fact I'd say I like them both better than Burgundy's to tell you the truth =) Other alternatives in the area: The Duke of Gloucester http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q &source=s_q&gl=ca&g=12+Isabella+Street%2C+Toronto%2C+ON+M4Y+1N1&q=bars+nears +yonge+and+bloor&btnG=Search+Maps But I think it gets fairly busy too normally, but no idea what it's like on Thursdays in particular. The Pilot Tavern http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q &source=s_q&gl=ca&g=12+Isabella+Street%2C+Toronto%2C+ON+M4Y+1N1&q=bars+nears +yonge+and+bloor&btnG=Search+Maps (I think we briefly discussed this already perhaps?) Slightly further than the Artful Dodger / Duke of Gloucester (on Bay instead of Yonge) Mullin's Irish Pub http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q &source=s_q&gl=ca&g=12+Isabella+Street%2C+Toronto%2C+ON+M4Y+1N1&q=bars+nears +yonge+and+bloor&btnG=Search+Maps Bah now I'm hungry and thirsty though. Mark Jubenville ioncache at gmail.com From: toronto-pm-bounces+ioncache=gmail.com at pm.org [mailto:toronto-pm-bounces+ioncache=gmail.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Mike Stok Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:04 AM To: Toronto Perl Mongers Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 After January's meeting we decamped to Burgundys, and it was unusually full. What are other people's thoughts on trying other bars within walking distance of the Yonge / Bloor intersection for post-meeting venues? What do other people consider walking distance? A couple of places I know and quite like are: * The Spotted Dick - 81 Bloor St E. 170 m from Yonge and Bloor (2 minutes walk according to google maps) * The Artful Dodger - 12 Isabella St 350 m from Yonge and Bloor (4 minutes walk according to google maps) Both these places have tolerable levels of noise in my experience, and both have wi-fi. Anyone have any other ideas for around Yonge / Bloor? Anyone have opinions about what's desirable in a post-meeting venue? Anyone have feelings one way or the other about trying another place after the February and / or March meetings? Regards, Mike - -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk1Kp8gACgkQnsTBwAWZE9qLPACgvrYfiv6rkpw6WuZyHK8oob0y pmUAoIL2YK60qs3glWbO1sIoH2rMlJbN =LwXo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ toronto-pm mailing list toronto-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3418 - Release Date: 02/02/11 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at stok.ca Thu Feb 3 09:15:18 2011 From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:15:18 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues In-Reply-To: <704542.58135.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <704542.58135.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:49 AM, J Z Tam wrote: > IMO, I can not hear 60% of what is being said at 5 feet away, at Burgundy's even when it is 1/4 full. However, the food at Burgundy's is consistently well presented. > > Voting for any venue with less background noise level, and a darkSkankyAle ;-) > > I don't mind walking for 10mins After we are dismissed, since I sit on my ass.embly all day. and also, Volunteer to do recon at the 3 bars on Cumberland. I'll check out the Spotted Dick tonight on the way home to see if we can reserve space for a dozen after February's meeting - I have played in a trivia league which uses the chunk at the north of the pub on Monday nights and on those nights it is possible to communicate with people two tables away. Then we can pick a spot for March based on Jordan's recon. Once April and May swing around maybe we can venture further afield, Mark's list whets my appetite and I can see some serious reconnaissance in my future :*) I'll add a section on the meeting announcement for where we're planning to decamp. The Spotted Dick's website is http://thespotteddickpub.com/ for those interested in the food / beverage choices. If people check out other pubs / venues please let us know if they have usable wifi. Mike - -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk1K4qYACgkQnsTBwAWZE9qciACeOVybVq/b31KZvCDBzUXjxdVH basAn1DsSS6mrdbS3e/rYEvK3sEolUj3 =TFVJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fulko.hew at gmail.com Thu Feb 3 09:31:58 2011 From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:31:58 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues In-Reply-To: References: <704542.58135.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Mike Stok wrote: ... snip ... > Once April and May swing around maybe we can venture further afield, ... snip ... Personally (and I might be the only one)... would prefer something not too far afield because I have to get back to the parking garage (on Cumberland), whereas others would be capable of simply jumping on the subway. From legrady at gmail.com Thu Feb 3 10:54:16 2011 From: legrady at gmail.com (Tom Legrady) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:54:16 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues In-Reply-To: <03bc01cbc3c5$0dc44010$294cc030$@com> References: <03bc01cbc3c5$0dc44010$294cc030$@com> Message-ID: I'm particular fond of the Duke of Gloucester & Artful Dodger, if it comes to a vote. On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Mark Jubenville wrote: > I?m fine with either of the choices Mike suggested.? In fact I?d say I like > them both better than Burgundy?s to tell you the truth =) > > > > Other alternatives in the area: > > > > The Duke of Gloucester > > http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&gl=ca&g=12+Isabella+Street%2C+Toronto%2C+ON+M4Y+1N1&q=bars+nears+yonge+and+bloor&btnG=Search+Maps > > But? I think it gets fairly busy too normally, but no idea what it?s like on > Thursdays in particular. > > > > The Pilot Tavern > > http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&gl=ca&g=12+Isabella+Street%2C+Toronto%2C+ON+M4Y+1N1&q=bars+nears+yonge+and+bloor&btnG=Search+Maps > > (I think we briefly discussed this already perhaps?) > > > > Slightly further than the Artful Dodger / Duke of Gloucester (on Bay instead > of Yonge) > > Mullin?s Irish Pub > > http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&gl=ca&g=12+Isabella+Street%2C+Toronto%2C+ON+M4Y+1N1&q=bars+nears+yonge+and+bloor&btnG=Search+Maps > > > > Bah now I?m hungry and thirsty though. > > > > Mark Jubenville > > ioncache at gmail.com > > > > From: toronto-pm-bounces+ioncache=gmail.com at pm.org > [mailto:toronto-pm-bounces+ioncache=gmail.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Mike Stok > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:04 AM > To: Toronto Perl Mongers > > Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > ________________________________ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3418 - Release Date: 02/02/11 > > Hash: SHA1 > > After January's meeting we decamped to Burgundys, and it was unusually > full.? What are other people's thoughts on trying other bars within walking > distance of the Yonge / Bloor intersection for post-meeting venues? > > What do other people consider walking distance? > > A couple of places I know and quite like are: > > * The Spotted Dick - 81 Bloor St E.? 170 m from Yonge and Bloor (2 minutes > walk according to google maps) > * The Artful Dodger - 12 Isabella St? 350 m from Yonge and Bloor (4 minutes > walk according to google maps) > > Both these places have tolerable levels of noise in my experience, and both > have wi-fi. > > Anyone have any other ideas for around Yonge / Bloor?? Anyone have opinions > about what's desirable in a post-meeting venue? > > Anyone have feelings one way or the other about trying another place after > the February and / or March meetings? > > Regards, > > Mike > > - -- > > Mike Stok > http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ > > The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) > > iEYEARECAAYFAk1Kp8gACgkQnsTBwAWZE9qLPACgvrYfiv6rkpw6WuZyHK8oob0y > pmUAoIL2YK60qs3glWbO1sIoH2rMlJbN > =LwXo > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > From abuzar at abuzar.com Thu Feb 3 11:12:32 2011 From: abuzar at abuzar.com (Abuzar) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:12:32 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues In-Reply-To: References: <03bc01cbc3c5$0dc44010$294cc030$@com> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Tom Legrady wrote: > I'm particular fond of the Duke of Gloucester & Artful Dodger, if it > comes to a vote. > If it can be managed, I'd like a place with good desserts. I'm all for delicious desserts. From mike at stok.ca Thu Feb 3 17:44:02 2011 From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:44:02 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Exploring alternative post-meeting venues In-Reply-To: References: <704542.58135.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 3, 2011, at 12:31 PM, Fulko Hew wrote: > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Mike Stok wrote: > > ... snip ... > >> Once April and May swing around maybe we can venture further afield, > > ... snip ... > > Personally (and I might be the only one)... > would prefer something not too far afield because I have to get back > to the parking garage (on Cumberland), whereas others would be > capable of simply jumping on the subway. That seems reasonable - maybe we should start with a 5 minute walk (by google maps) from Yonge and Bloor as a first approximation of reasonably close? Mike - -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) iEUEARECAAYFAk1LWeIACgkQnsTBwAWZE9rTogCglswlCBMQ80w0szx33FfcvdNx FRcAmPfzOZ1qoWgWWOxCkeNOGnBxcw4= =CMTC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From legrady at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 05:35:22 2011 From: legrady at gmail.com (Tom Legrady) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 08:35:22 -0500 Subject: [tpm] February meeting ideas In-Reply-To: <78643648-24EC-482A-B155-37044BA6BCDA@stok.ca> References: <78643648-24EC-482A-B155-37044BA6BCDA@stok.ca> Message-ID: I was the one who actually suggested the topic. I've recently been interviewing applicants and found they were mostly DB admins with no knowledge of Unix, and no programming ability at all. My particular interest is how people get relevant applicants and how they screen them. The other topics seem worthwhile too. Oh, and if you know a high-paying position with requirements matching my resume .... Keeping people mostly on topic will be a chore for Chairman Mike On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Mike Stok wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > At January's meeting someone suggested some kind of job / employment round-table for the February meeting. ?This email is intended to get some responses on the list. > > I thought some of the areas it might cover could include: > > * Skills to complement Perl (other languages, other areas of IT interest) > * Interview tips and techniques (candidate's perspective) > * Interview tips and techniques (interviewer's perspective) > * Impressions of the Toronto area jobs market > * War stories > > Do you think this has merit? ?Is it a whole meeting or half a meeting? ?If it does have merit then will someone volunteer as emcee? > > Mike > > - -- > Mike Stok > http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ > > The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) > > iEYEARECAAYFAk1KoP8ACgkQnsTBwAWZE9roDwCeITvo2f2iYde9D1OhPCLfx8vo > aMQAmQFG/NT/3tNqbzZLszKq815t9SWG > =+Q7e > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > From omgulban at yahoo.ca Fri Feb 4 12:42:21 2011 From: omgulban at yahoo.ca (Omid Gulban) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:42:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tpm] chomp problem Message-ID: <358597.46621.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello All, I have a simple script shown below: on windows xp platform. use warnings; use strict; while () { chomp $_; print "$_"; } __END__ a b c d e f g h Why do I get an output that looks like this: a ab bc cd de ef fg ghh I expected to see: abcdefg Thanks O -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mfowle at navicominc.com Fri Feb 4 12:56:48 2011 From: mfowle at navicominc.com (Mark Fowle) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:56:48 -0500 Subject: [tpm] chomp problem In-Reply-To: <358597.46621.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <759E3F14A23281479A85A082BBCFA5429EA151@sbsa.NavicomInc.local> line ends in windows tend to be \r\n. comp safely removes one line end character, as aposed to chop that removed one cjharacter from the end of a line. so chomp$_; chomp $_; is safe and will work on any computer OS. ________________________________ From: toronto-pm-bounces+mfowle=navicominc.com at pm.org [mailto:toronto-pm-bounces+mfowle=navicominc.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Omid Gulban Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:42 PM To: tpm at to.pm.org Subject: [tpm] chomp problem Hello All, I have a simple script shown below: on windows xp platform. use warnings; use strict; while () { chomp $_; print "$_"; } __END__ a b c d e f g h Why do I get an output that looks like this: a ab bc cd de ef fg ghh I expected to see: abcdefg Thanks O -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbl at jbldata.com Fri Feb 4 13:41:18 2011 From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 16:41:18 -0500 Subject: [tpm] chomp problem In-Reply-To: <759E3F14A23281479A85A082BBCFA5429EA151@sbsa.NavicomInc.local> References: <358597.46621.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <759E3F14A23281479A85A082BBCFA5429EA151@sbsa.NavicomInc.local> Message-ID: Something like my $line = $_; $line =~ s/(?:\r\n|\n)$//; print $line; .. should also work. On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Mark Fowle wrote: > line ends in windows tend to be \r\n. > comp safely removes one line end character, as aposed to chop that removed > one cjharacter from the end of a line. > so chomp$_; chomp $_; is safe and will work on any computer OS. > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* toronto-pm-bounces+mfowle=navicominc.com at pm.org [mailto: > toronto-pm-bounces+mfowle =navicominc.com@ > pm.org] *On Behalf Of *Omid Gulban > *Sent:* Friday, February 04, 2011 3:42 PM > *To:* tpm at to.pm.org > *Subject:* [tpm] chomp problem > > Hello All, > > I have a simple script shown below: > on windows xp platform. > > > > use warnings; > use strict; > > while () { > chomp $_; > print "$_"; > } > > __END__ > a > b > c > d > e > f > g > h > > > Why do I get an output that looks like this: > a > ab > bc > cd > de > ef > fg > ghh > > I expected to see: > abcdefg > > > Thanks > O > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at sergeant.org Fri Feb 4 14:14:50 2011 From: matt at sergeant.org (Matt Sergeant) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 17:14:50 -0500 Subject: [tpm] chomp problem In-Reply-To: <759E3F14A23281479A85A082BBCFA5429EA151@sbsa.NavicomInc.local> References: <759E3F14A23281479A85A082BBCFA5429EA151@sbsa.NavicomInc.local> Message-ID: <4D4C7A5A.4090007@sergeant.org> Mark Fowle wrote: > line ends in windows tend to be \r\n. > comp safely removes one line end character, as aposed to chop that > removed one cjharacter from the end of a line. > so chomp$_; chomp $_; is safe and will work on any computer OS. Right, but it won't do what the user wants, because chomp just removes whatever is in $/ which defaults to "\n". It's strongly recommended to read the perlport man page if you have to use windows. Matt. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart at morungos.com Fri Feb 4 14:59:16 2011 From: stuart at morungos.com (Stuart Watt) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 17:59:16 -0500 Subject: [tpm] chomp problem In-Reply-To: <358597.46621.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <358597.46621.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D4C84C4.6020207@morungos.com> This is puzzling. For me, the script behaves exactly as it ought, even on Windows. Even if I change the script to use UNIX line terminators, it behaves as it ought. And (see following script) even when I add in a binmode() call to turn off Perl/Windows automatic conversion of \cM\cJ to \n, it still behaves just as predicted. I may be missing something, but it looks like there may be some oddity in the DATA file handle. I copied the data to a separate file, and modified the script, leaving in the binmode. Now, the same data is in the DATA file handle, and in both cases I used the Windows line terminations. Now, if I check the byte-level output (with "perl test.pl | od -c"), I get different behaviour with versus without the open call, which ought to read the same data. In effect, binmode(DATA, ':raw') has no effect on the inline DATA block. This suggests maybe there are some unusual effects specific to the DATA filehandle. This wouldn't account for what you see, but certainly I'd test it reading from a regular filehandle for comparison. What version/build of Perl are you using? All the best Stuart # Modified script to play with DATA filehandles use warnings; use strict; open(DATA, "<", "data.txt"); # comment out this line, to compare with it included #binmode(\*DATA, ':raw'); # turn off \cM\cJ => \n on read, has no effect without open() call while () { chomp $_; print "$_"; } __END__ a b c d e f g h On 04/02/2011 3:42 PM, Omid Gulban wrote: > Hello All, > > I have a simple script shown below: > on windows xp platform. > ... > Why do I get an output that looks like this: > a > ab > bc > cd > de > ef > fg > ghh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From omid.gulban at sickkids.ca Fri Feb 4 12:23:48 2011 From: omid.gulban at sickkids.ca (Omid Gulban) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:23:48 -0500 Subject: [tpm] chomp problem Message-ID: Hello All, I have a simple script shown below: on windows xp platform. use warnings; use strict; while () { chomp $_; print "$_"; } __END__ a b c d e f g h Why do I get an output that looks like this: a ab bc cd de ef fg ghh I expected to see: abcdefg Thanks Omid This e-mail may contain confidential, personal and/or health information(information which may be subject to legal restrictions on use, retention and/or disclosure) for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by anyone other than the person for whom it was originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. From legrady at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 16:55:30 2011 From: legrady at gmail.com (Tom Legrady) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 19:55:30 -0500 Subject: [tpm] chomp problem In-Reply-To: <759E3F14A23281479A85A082BBCFA5429EA151@sbsa.NavicomInc.local> References: <358597.46621.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <759E3F14A23281479A85A082BBCFA5429EA151@sbsa.NavicomInc.local> Message-ID: Perl should know what platform you are on, and whether \n is carriage return, linefeed, or both. Looks to me like something about your configuration or locale is confusing Perl. On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Mark Fowle wrote: > line ends in windows tend to be \r\n. > comp safely removes one line end character, as aposed to chop that removed > one cjharacter from the end of a line. > so chomp$_; chomp $_; is safe and will work on any computer OS. > > > > ________________________________ > From: toronto-pm-bounces+mfowle=navicominc.com at pm.org > [mailto:toronto-pm-bounces+mfowle=navicominc.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Omid > Gulban > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:42 PM > To: tpm at to.pm.org > Subject: [tpm] chomp problem > > Hello All, > > I have a simple script shown below: > on windows xp platform. > > > > use warnings; > use strict; > > while () { > ??????? chomp $_; > ??????? print "$_"; > } > > __END__ > a > b > c > d > e > f > g > h > > > Why do I get an output that looks like this: > a > ab > bc > cd > de > ef > fg > ghh > > I expected to see: > abcdefg > > > Thanks > O > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > From indy at indigostar.com Fri Feb 4 20:26:48 2011 From: indy at indigostar.com (Indy Singh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 23:26:48 -0500 Subject: [tpm] chomp problem References: Message-ID: Hello, The scripts works as expected for me. There is no issue with line endings. On Windows Perl automatically translats the input lines so they terminate with a newline ('\n'). This works if the file is in Windows format, or even if it is in Unix format. This works correctly with several versions of Perl from 5.6.1 to 5.12.2. Your problem is that your source file is corrupted in some way. It may conain a mixture of incorrect lineending or there be be some invisible space characters in it. To view a hex dump of the file, type the command 'debug filename.pl'. Then type 'd' and enter a few times. To fix the file create a new text file with notepad and copy and paste the text from your own email. If you are still not sure, then send the file as an attachment, or post a hex dump of the file. Let us know what version of Perl you are using. Indy Singh IndigoSTAR Software -- www.indigostar.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Omid Gulban" To: "Toronto Perl Mongers" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: [tpm] chomp problem > Hello All, > > I have a simple script shown below: > on windows xp platform. > > > > use warnings; > use strict; > > while () { > chomp $_; > print "$_"; > } > > __END__ > a > b > c > d > e > f > g > h > > > Why do I get an output that looks like this: > a > ab > bc > cd > de > ef > fg > ghh > > I expected to see: > abcdefg > > > Thanks > Omid > > This e-mail may contain confidential, personal and/or health > information(information which may be subject to legal restrictions on > use, retention and/or disclosure) for the sole use of the intended > recipient. Any review or distribution by anyone other than the person > for whom it was originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and > delete all copies. > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm From uri at StemSystems.com Fri Feb 4 20:29:27 2011 From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 23:29:27 -0500 Subject: [tpm] chomp problem In-Reply-To: (Tom Legrady's message of "Fri\, 4 Feb 2011 19\:55\:30 -0500") References: <358597.46621.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <759E3F14A23281479A85A082BBCFA5429EA151@sbsa.NavicomInc.local> Message-ID: <87pqr75ck8.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> >>>>> "TL" == Tom Legrady writes: TL> Perl should know what platform you are on, and whether \n is carriage TL> return, linefeed, or both. Looks to me like something about your TL> configuration or locale is confusing Perl. at the level of perl code \n is always a newline. it is only when reading/writing to text files on winblows does it matter what the real line ending is. if the DATA handle is read in text mode, chomp should work fine. there may be something else going on here. i would check what the file actually has with od or a similar tool. uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri at stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- From omid.gulban at sickkids.ca Mon Feb 7 06:21:02 2011 From: omid.gulban at sickkids.ca (Omid Gulban) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:21:02 -0500 Subject: [tpm] chomp problem In-Reply-To: <358597.46621.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <358597.46621.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello All, I have used chomp a countless number of times before and had no problem. I am also well aware of the end of line characters on various platforms. What confuses me the most as well is when I included a "sleep 1; " in the code as listed below: use warnings; use strict; while () { chomp $_; print "$_"; sleep 1; } __END__ a b c d e f g h I expected a 1 second delay in between the print statements. BUT PERL waits 8 (1 second for a,b,c,d...h) seconds and prints everything together! maybe I should uninstall perl and reinstall it again! I have used chomp for about 8 years and never seen this. Thanks O ________________________________________ From: toronto-pm-bounces+gulban=sickkids.ca at pm.org [toronto-pm-bounces+gulban=sickkids.ca at pm.org] On Behalf Of Omid Gulban [omgulban at yahoo.ca] Sent: February 4, 2011 3:42 PM To: tpm at to.pm.org Subject: [tpm] chomp problem Hello All, I have a simple script shown below: on windows xp platform. use warnings; use strict; while () { chomp $_; print "$_"; } __END__ a b c d e f g h Why do I get an output that looks like this: a ab bc cd de ef fg ghh I expected to see: abcdefg Thanks O This e-mail may contain confidential, personal and/or health information(information which may be subject to legal restrictions on use, retention and/or disclosure) for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by anyone other than the person for whom it was originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. From mjglover at gmail.com Tue Feb 1 08:02:29 2011 From: mjglover at gmail.com (Mike Glover) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 10:02:29 -0600 Subject: [tpm] [Bulk] Re: Usage Based Billing - What you should know.. In-Reply-To: <55e7e133a02e0a8be45a55b28ad81b14.squirrel@mail.vex.net> References: <20110131212246.GA16156@watson-wilson.ca> <55e7e133a02e0a8be45a55b28ad81b14.squirrel@mail.vex.net> Message-ID: I normally just read these posts but this thread affects us all as techies and innovators. The one main argument with UBB and internet as compared to gas, water and power - is gas, water and power are effectively not for profit. (enbridge is regulated to reinvest whatever profits they create back into the system and they are dependant on gas spot prices to stay solvent). IF we accept UBB then the costs should be commensurate with a modest profit model. BNS did an independant study and determined it costs < $0.01 to deliver 1G of traffic. So lets allow Bell/Rogers etc to apply a 500% markup or $0.05 a Gig per month of usage to allow for future expansion of the network. If that was the model then I would accept it because it would be far cheaper for all of us. Assuming we all cap at 60G a month that would cost us $3 for that traffic. Allow them a monthly service cost of say $10 a month then the total bill would be $13 a month and they are making incredible profit margins as compared to any other industry. If that was the gist of the pricing model altertations then I would be for UBB because even if one month I decided to watch a bunch of movies on Netflix - the additive costs would not be a deterant. The way it is being positioned now is effectively taxation without representation which we all know didnt work over 200 years ago for the states - it should not fly for us now. I will now go back to lurkiung. Mike On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:43 AM, wrote: > > The last mile monopoly in Canada is certainly a problem. However, the > > idea of usage billing is not a bad one. It works for water, electricity > > and natural gas. > > > > > There is one difference, though between those and Internet traffic; the > cost model. All have some combination of virtually fixed infrastructure > cost and usage-related costs. Water, electricity and gas all involve the > producer in some degree of effort, related to the volume of consumption. > For bits, especially when provided by somebody other than the network > provider, the marginal cost has to be practically nil. > > That argues for high access fees and little or no usage charge. > > The problem is rationing access. A free good generally is in almost > infinite demand, which eventually means the system becomes clogged. Then > the argument becomes about expanding the system, (and who pays for it), or > imposing some sort of throttle on users to keep the demand within bounds. > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joanna at ianmartin.com Fri Feb 4 08:52:27 2011 From: joanna at ianmartin.com (Joanna Mamo) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 11:52:27 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Perl Position is Toronto Message-ID: <7E25BC578ED46E47AF630CADE16507F58E6FC13D@imlexch01> Hi there, One of your group members mentioned to reach out to you. I have an amazing Perl Development position with a great client in the west end of Toronto. Wondering if you would be kind enough to post it or distribute it to anyone you think might benefit from the referral. We both know that Perl candidates and positions are hard to come by so this is a great way to network. Any insight you can provide would be greatly appreciated. My client is a leading provider of airline tickets, hotel accommodations, vacation packages and car rentals. They are looking for a Perl Developer, the position will involve working on travel software and metasearch projects using web technologies using Perl, XML, DHTML, CSS, AJAX, Javascript. I am looking for full time software developers to join their team and participate in the creation of exciting web based products that are redefining the travel map in Canada. The position will involve working on travel software and metasearch projects using web technologies including Perl, XML, DHTML, CSS, AJAX and Javascript. Our development tool chain comprises of Perl with Postgresql on Linux using the Catalyst framework and the Moose meta object system. We have multiple vacancies available for this position. Here are the details of the job: Perl Developer - Mississauga / Oakville Full time salaried position Software Developers will report to the Chief Technology Officer. Position Requirements Skills and Education: A Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science or a related field, or equivalent experience At least three years of experience developing in Perl Demonstrated experience and competence in developing in object oriented Perl Knowledge of/ experience in Moose and the Catalyst framework is a major asset Experience with HTML, CSS, JavaScript and jQuery is an asset Good written and spoken English Qualities: Software Developer Proactive with excellent communication skills Team Player Our client Offers: Above average compensation package Group Benefits Plan Opportunities for professional development and training Joanna Mamo Technical Recruiter Ian Martin Information Technology 33 Yonge Street, 9th floor Toronto, ON * M5E 1G4 Tel: 416-439-6400 ext. 4253 Fax: 416-439-6922 Toll Free: 1-866-752-6744 email: joanna at ianmartin.com web: http://www.ianmartin.com Search IMIT jobs: http://it.ianmartin.com LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/joannamamo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ejanev at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 10:04:37 2011 From: ejanev at gmail.com (Emil Janev) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:04:37 -0500 Subject: [tpm] chomp problem In-Reply-To: References: <358597.46621.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Omid, Most probably you do not need to reinstall Perl :) Just disable the buffering on the STDOUT handle: use warnings; use strict; use FileHandle; STDOUT->autoflush; while () { chomp $_; print "$_"; sleep 1; } __END__ a b c d e f g h On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Omid Gulban wrote: > Hello All, > > I have used chomp a countless number of times before and had no problem. I > am also well aware of the end of line characters on various platforms. What > confuses me the most as well is > when I included a "sleep 1; " in the code as listed below: > > use warnings; > use strict; > > while () { > chomp $_; > print "$_"; > sleep 1; > > } > > __END__ > a > b > c > d > e > f > g > h > > > I expected a 1 second delay in between the print statements. BUT PERL waits > 8 (1 second for a,b,c,d...h) seconds and prints everything together! > maybe I should uninstall perl and reinstall it again! > > I have used chomp for about 8 years and never seen this. > > > > > Thanks > O > ________________________________________ > From: toronto-pm-bounces+gulban=sickkids.ca at pm.org[toronto-pm-bounces+gulban= > sickkids.ca at pm.org] On Behalf Of Omid Gulban [omgulban at yahoo.ca] > Sent: February 4, 2011 3:42 PM > To: tpm at to.pm.org > Subject: [tpm] chomp problem > > Hello All, > > I have a simple script shown below: > on windows xp platform. > > > > use warnings; > use strict; > > while () { > chomp $_; > print "$_"; > } > > __END__ > a > b > c > d > e > f > g > h > > > Why do I get an output that looks like this: > a > ab > bc > cd > de > ef > fg > ghh > > I expected to see: > abcdefg > > > Thanks > O > > > This e-mail may contain confidential, personal and/or health > information(information which may be subject to legal restrictions on use, > retention and/or disclosure) for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review or distribution by anyone other than the person for whom it was > originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail > in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > -- Emil Janev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uri at StemSystems.com Mon Feb 7 10:28:10 2011 From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 13:28:10 -0500 Subject: [tpm] chomp problem In-Reply-To: (Omid Gulban's message of "Mon\, 7 Feb 2011 09\:21\:02 -0500") References: <358597.46621.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87mxm7lmx1.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> >>>>> "OG" == Omid Gulban writes: OG> I expected a 1 second delay in between the print statements. BUT PERL waits 8 (1 second for a,b,c,d...h) seconds and prints everything together! OG> maybe I should uninstall perl and reinstall it again! OG> I have used chomp for about 8 years and never seen this. it has nothing to do with chomp. you are printing partial lines so they are buffered in stdout don't get flushed right away. either print the lines with a newline or set $| to force flushing with every print. uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri at stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- From antoniosun at lavabit.com Tue Feb 8 06:03:47 2011 From: antoniosun at lavabit.com (Antonio Sun) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 09:03:47 -0500 Subject: [tpm] IO::Socket::INET listening on the 2nd ip address Message-ID: Hi, I have the following code, $sock = new IO::Socket::INET ( LocalHost => '0.0.0.0', LocalPort => '80', Proto => 'tcp', Listen => 30, Reuse => 1); which will fail because my port 80 on localhost is used by web server. How can I change the code to listen on the 2nd ip address? I.e., my current IP address is 192.168.0.100, it is also accessible at 192.168.0.101. I want that visiting 192.168.0.100 will land to my normal web server, while visiting 192.168.0.101 will be handled by the code above. Please help. Thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uri at StemSystems.com Tue Feb 8 08:22:05 2011 From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:22:05 -0500 Subject: [tpm] IO::Socket::INET listening on the 2nd ip address In-Reply-To: (Antonio Sun's message of "Tue\, 8 Feb 2011 09\:03\:47 -0500") References: Message-ID: <87zkq61ope.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> >>>>> "AS" == Antonio Sun writes: AS> ?$sock = new IO::Socket::INET ( ?LocalHost => '0.0.0.0', AS> ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?LocalPort => '80', AS> ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Proto => 'tcp', AS> ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Listen => 30, AS> ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Reuse => 1); don't use the indirect call of new Class. make it Class->new(). also you don't need all of those options as several are defaulted. proto, reuse are defaulted as you set them. AS> which will fail because my port 80 on localhost is used by web server.? AS> How can I change the code to?listen on the 2nd ip address?? AS> I.e., my current IP address is?192.168.0.100, it is AS> also?accessible?at?192.168.0.101.?I want that AS> visiting?192.168.0.100 will land to my normal?web server, while AS> visiting?192.168.0.101 will be handled by the code above.? kind of obvious. you set localhost to the ip you want. that binds the listen socket to that and the port pair which is unique on your box. uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri at stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- From antoniosun at lavabit.com Tue Feb 8 10:04:16 2011 From: antoniosun at lavabit.com (Antonio Sun) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:04:16 -0500 Subject: [tpm] IO::Socket::INET listening on the 2nd ip address In-Reply-To: <87zkq61ope.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> References: <87zkq61ope.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> Message-ID: I'll get: On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Uri Guttman wrote: > >>>>> "AS" == Antonio Sun writes: > > AS> $sock = new IO::Socket::INET ( LocalHost => '0.0.0.0', > AS> LocalPort => '80', > AS> Proto => 'tcp', > AS> Listen => 30, > AS> Reuse => 1); > > don't use the indirect call of new Class. make it Class->new(). . . OK, will change that once script is working. AS> which will fail because my port 80 on localhost is used by web server. > AS> How can I change the code to listen on the 2nd ip address? > > AS> I.e., my current IP address is 192.168.0.100, it is > AS> also accessible at 192.168.0.101. I want that > AS> visiting 192.168.0.100 will land to my normal web server, while > AS> visiting 192.168.0.101 will be handled by the code above. > > kind of obvious. you set localhost to the ip you want. that binds the > listen socket to that and the port pair which is unique on your box. > Sorry, I still can't figure it out, even it is so obvious to you: If I use, $sock = new IO::Socket::INET ( LocalHost => '0.0.0.0', LocalPort => '80', Proto => 'tcp', Listen => 30, Reuse => 1); if (!defined($sock)) { print "error : cannot bind : $! exit\n"; exit(1); } I'll get: error : cannot bind : Address already in use exit I assume it fails because my port 80 is currently used by web server. If I use $sock = new IO::Socket::INET ( LocalHost => '192.168.0.101', I still get error : cannot bind : Address already in use exit If I use $sock = new IO::Socket::INET ( LocalHost => '192.168.0.104', I'll get: error : cannot bind : Cannot assign requested address exit Please help. thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uri at StemSystems.com Tue Feb 8 10:21:42 2011 From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 13:21:42 -0500 Subject: [tpm] IO::Socket::INET listening on the 2nd ip address In-Reply-To: (Antonio Sun's message of "Tue\, 8 Feb 2011 13\:04\:16 -0500") References: <87zkq61ope.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> Message-ID: <87zkq6wfnt.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> >>>>> "AS" == Antonio Sun writes: AS> I assume it fails because my port 80 is currently used by web server. AS> If I use AS> ?$sock = new IO::Socket::INET ( ?LocalHost => '192.168.0.101', AS> I still get AS> ?error : cannot bind : Address already in use exit so find out what server is using that socket. maybe your web server is configured to use both ip addresses. AS> If I use? AS> ?$sock = new IO::Socket::INET ( ?LocalHost => '192.168.0.104', AS> I'll get: AS> ?error : cannot bind : Cannot assign requested address exit well, that address doesn't exist so that error is expected. you can't run two servers on the same address as you know. so you must delve into your box and see who is listening on that ip/port. or choose another port which is usually easy. there is no reason to require port 80 for a server. it is just the default one for http but you can use any free port you can find. uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri at stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- From antoniosun at lavabit.com Tue Feb 8 10:39:04 2011 From: antoniosun at lavabit.com (Antonio Sun) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:39:04 -0500 Subject: [tpm] IO::Socket::INET listening on the 2nd ip address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Antonio Sun wrote: > I.e., my current IP address is 192.168.0.100, it is > also accessible at 192.168.0.101. I want that visiting 192.168.0.100 will > land to my normal web server, while visiting 192.168.0.101 will be handled > by the code above. > FYI, it's very easy to obtain a 2nd ip address: ip addr add dev eth0 192.168.0.101/24 that's it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rob at cryptic.org Tue Feb 8 10:40:59 2011 From: rob at cryptic.org (rob at cryptic.org) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 13:40:59 -0500 Subject: [tpm] IO::Socket::INET listening on the 2nd ip address In-Reply-To: <87zkq6wfnt.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> References: <87zkq61ope.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> <87zkq6wfnt.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> Message-ID: <25fcc43d0aa0246b85c671b57f91a51f@mail3.bcmtech.net> Also make sure that your webserver is only bound to one IP address. By default Apache binds to all IPs on the machine. On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 13:21:42 -0500, "Uri Guttman" wrote: >>>>>> "AS" == Antonio Sun writes: > > AS> I assume it fails because my port 80 is currently used by web server. > > AS> If I use > > AS> ?$sock = new IO::Socket::INET ( ?LocalHost => '192.168.0.101', > > AS> I still get > > AS> ?error : cannot bind : Address already in use exit > > so find out what server is using that socket. maybe your web server is > configured to use both ip addresses. > > AS> If I use? > > AS> ?$sock = new IO::Socket::INET ( ?LocalHost => '192.168.0.104', > > AS> I'll get: > > AS> ?error : cannot bind : Cannot assign requested address exit > > well, that address doesn't exist so that error is expected. > > you can't run two servers on the same address as you know. so you must > delve into your box and see who is listening on that ip/port. or choose > another port which is usually easy. there is no reason to require port > 80 for a server. it is just the default one for http but you can use any > free port you can find. > > uri > > -- > Uri Guttman ------ uri at stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com > -- > ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support > ------ > --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix - From abuzar at abuzar.com Tue Feb 8 15:04:52 2011 From: abuzar at abuzar.com (Abuzar) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 18:04:52 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Talk Request: Perl Tames IPv6 Message-ID: Hi all, Thought I might try something from an anarchist group I used to participate in... you request what you want to learn and someone does a workshop on it. So, does anyone know anything about IPv6 and how to deal with it, poke it, prod it, wrestle it and tame it in Perl? I'm thinking something like "Taming IPv6 in Perl" or "Using Perl to tame IPv6" or better yet "Perl Tames IPv6". Yes? Abuzar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at sergeant.org Wed Feb 9 13:57:18 2011 From: matt at sergeant.org (Matt Sergeant) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:57:18 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Talk Request: Perl Tames IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D530DBE.5030607@sergeant.org> Abuzar wrote: > So, does anyone know anything about IPv6 and how to deal with it, poke > it, prod it, wrestle it and tame it in Perl? I'm thinking something > like "Taming IPv6 in Perl" or "Using Perl to tame IPv6" or better yet > "Perl Tames IPv6". Yes? Seems like more of a lightning talk... it's mostly not really rocket science :-/ It's getting much better in 5.14 though (actually supported in core, rather than CPAN modules). Matt. From liam at holoweb.net Fri Feb 11 10:45:39 2011 From: liam at holoweb.net (Liam R E Quin) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 13:45:39 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [u-u] Usage Based Billing - What you should know.. In-Reply-To: <20110131155708.92886f71.darcy@druid.net> References: <20110131155708.92886f71.darcy@druid.net> Message-ID: <1297449939.31908.606.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> On Mon, 2011-01-31 at 15:57 -0500, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote: > Where is the petition to oppose this petition? I'm not sure about Perl > Mongers (and also not sure why the cross post) but I have trouble > believing that most members of Unix Unanimous have a problem with pay > for use. Why should sensible users be subsidizing the heavy users? I'm not sure either. It sounds to me like people in the city wanting life easy -- out here in the country the bandwidth caps are rarely higher than 10G and it's still $50/month for 1.5Mbps service. (we actually pay $90/month to have two antennas, for more reliability) I do take the point that the charges are too high, but that's separate from charging based on usage. Bandwidth *is* a limited resource: any given router has a maximum capacity, any given connection has a maximum throughput at any given time. When I lived in Toronto we had cable for a while, and when the teenagers got home from school our network went like molasses in the snow. So we switched to ADSL (magma.ca at the time) and paid a little more for better service. If everyone in town turns their air conditioning on at the same time, the power goes out. To discourage this, there's a charge for electricity. (Here at least, more than half of it is a "delivery charge".) If everyone in the town strips naked and bathes in the front garden with five hose-pipes going, there is then a shortage of water (and also of cameras). We have to share resources, and the way to do that is to meter our usage. Rogers Wireless already charges over $30 per megabyte if you roam with your 'phone (and who uses 3G data at home instead of wifi???). So it's not new to Canada. If there's a petition to be heard it shouldn't be spoilt children wanting free candy, but needs to offer a practical way to stop the bullies taking all the sugar without actual extortion. There's my rant for the month :-) Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org www.advogato.org On the Internet no-one can touch your feet. From daniel at benoy.name Mon Feb 14 14:32:24 2011 From: daniel at benoy.name (daniel at benoy.name) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:32:24 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [u-u] Usage Based Billing - What you should know.. In-Reply-To: <1297449939.31908.606.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> References: <20110131155708.92886f71.darcy@druid.net> <1297449939.31908.606.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> Message-ID: > I do take the point that the charges are too high, but that's > separate > from charging based on usage. Yep. The two issues are being collapsed into one and that's not fair to the idea of charging a reasonable rate for bandwidth usage. Unfortunately there are some complications to the notion of just charging per gig. For example, someone who downloads 1 gig slowly causes less network strain than someone who downloads 1 gig as fast as possible, but gets charged the same amount. Also, someone who downloads during off-peak hours actually consumes the same amount of network usage as someone who doesn't download anything at all, because router and link capacities are built for the times of highest throughput. It's not uncommon for the peak hours to require 10 times more bandwidth than the off-peak hours, and if there's a big event like a sports championship or newsworthy disaster, then it can be 20 times higher, or more. Most of the time major network links are 50-90% idle depending on the time of day, and the bandwidth that could have been utilized during that time is wasted. A simple compromise would be for bell to charge wholesalers on a biling model that takes peak usage into account, like 95th percentile, and let them work out what model they want to use on their customers to recoup that cost. Sadly, a fair compromise isn't what this is about. UBB was first introduced in Canada around the time p2p file sharing started to really pick up, and unsurprisingly, this caused them to have to either upgrade their network infrastructure, or discourage their customers from using p2p. Sadly, they seem to have opted for the latter. The overage charges were punitive measures to dissuade heavy users from using the internet at all, rather than just charging them a bit extra for their extra usage. Plenty of users, however, went to competitors to avoid these charges and kept on being bandwidth abusers, which presented something of a loophole. The network of the big two is still partially involved in delivering internet, even when a third party provider is being used, so they set to work to close that loophole. They put forward a request to the CRTC to be allowed to charge more money to third party providers, for the use of their phone and cable lines. Specifically, they wanted to charge other ISPs 75% of the same bandwidth usage fees that they charge to their own customers. (Since Bell and Rogers are forced to provide lines to their competitors, they have to get approval for every new price change) Fast-forward five years or so (That's actually fast for the CRTC.) and it finally got approved and wrestled its way through all the appeals. However, in the time that passed, now everyone and their grandma is able to blow past the bandwidth caps just by watching a few movies or playing some onlive or getting a virus, so the punitive use of bandwidth caps no longer closes a loophole on file sharing abusers. Now it's just gouging ordinary users with the obscene rates designed to be a penalty for abusers. The p2p file sharing situation has actually caused another controversial CRTC decision recently that never got protested. Bell started filtering traffic to slow down p2p connections on their network, but they also did it to the third party ISPs at the same time. Theoretically, if you're a third party ISP, you're paying Bell to provide you with a link between the customer and your datacenter, and you provide the link to the internet, and it's completely up to you what traffic you choose to filter or packet shape. Bell's decision to filter their competitors was challenged with the CRTC, and they sided with Bell. Now, if anyone is dissatisfied with Bell's p2p filtering (i.e. they throttle down your VPN by mistake, thinking it's p2p.. or they start filtering all your encrypted connections, because they can't tell whether or not it's p2p) then it's impossible to go to a competitor and get different filtering, because Bell's same sandvine equipment is between the CPE and the third party ISP datacenter. Sorry for the conuter-rant :p From mike at stok.ca Wed Feb 16 02:37:38 2011 From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 05:37:38 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Fwd: UG News: Ebook Deal/Day - Save 50% on Theory in Practice titles (includes The Art of and Beautiful books) References: <1297843322.28281.0.812967@post.oreilly.com> Message-ID: <64589C8F-508B-4583-952C-64BEFFB6F7A7@stok.ca> Save 50% Ebook Deal of the Day Free to Choose: Theory in Practice For one day only, you can SAVE 50% on these Theory in Practice titles. Use discount code DDTP5 in the shopping cart. Ebooks from oreilly.com are DRM-free. You get free lifetime access, and free updates. The Art of SEO Was: $35.99 Now: $17.99 Beautiful Visualization Was: $47.99 Now: $23.99 Making Things Happen Was: $31.99 Now: $15.99 The Art of Agile Development Was: $31.99 Now: $15.99 Cloud Security and Privacy Was: $27.99 Now: $13.99 REST in Practice Was: $31.99 Now: $15.99 Cloud Application Architectures Was: $23.99 Now: $11.99 Beautiful Data Was: $35.99 Now: $17.99 SOA in Practice Was: $31.99 Now: $15.99 Making Software Was: $35.99 Now: $17.99 Plus over 25 more titles, view them now > You are receiving this email because you are a User Group contact with O'Reilly Media. Forward this announcement. If you would like to stop receiving these newsletters or announcements from O'Reilly, send an email to marsee at oreilly.com. O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (707) 827-70000 -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt at sergeant.org Wed Feb 16 14:05:21 2011 From: matt at sergeant.org (Matt Sergeant) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:05:21 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [u-u] Usage Based Billing - What you should know.. In-Reply-To: <1297449939.31908.606.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> References: <20110131155708.92886f71.darcy@druid.net> <1297449939.31908.606.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> Message-ID: <4D5C4A21.9030606@sergeant.org> Liam R E Quin wrote: > I'm not sure either. It sounds to me like people in the city wanting > life easy -- out here in the country the bandwidth caps are rarely > higher than 10G and it's still $50/month for 1.5Mbps service. (we > actually pay $90/month to have two antennas, for more reliability) > I doubt very much that it's got anything to do with the town/country divide. > I do take the point that the charges are too high, but that's separate > from charging based on usage. Bandwidth*is* a limited resource: any > given router has a maximum capacity, any given connection has a maximum > throughput at any given time. There are three basic problems with the model of UBB as has been presented to the CRTC, all of them based on a pyramid of lies and deceptions: 1) The cost of $2/G. This is ridiculous and outlandish. The true cost of 1GB from a transit point of view (i.e. what Bell are actually paying, after fixed costs) is around 1-3c per G (this is complicated again by the fact that you pay for capacity not bandwidth at the wholesale level, so if you don't use it you're still paying). So this cost has been set in place as a punitive damage to discourage heavy use, not to actually cover the cost of it. This is unlike the situation with Electricity or Water, where the regulatory framework ensures that the price you pay is only a small markup from the actual cost of it. I'm actually pro usage based billing, if the price reflects the cost more accurately and is reduced as the cost reduces over time. In fact if the cost reflected this, with prices close to what we pay for Electricity (e.g. my fixed costs are about $25, and my bill is about $45) then my bandwidth limit even at 5c/GB would be plenty high enough given what I pay per month. 2) The bandwidth bill is mostly footed by the provider, not Bell/Rogers. While it's true that the connection under TekSavvy DSL (or $other) goes to Bell's data center and their equipment, it doesn't HAVE to be that way. They just want it to be that way. Having said that, the data then goes direct to TekSavvy's equipment and out to the internet through THEIR pipes. If they want to give people unlimited bandwidth on their pipes don't you think they should be able to? 3) Bell/Rogers are already making a profit off these third party providers. Unless and until there is COMPLETE disclosure of profits/losses of providing services to external providers it is entirely unreasonable of the CRTC to just take Bell's word for it that these are the costs involved. Full disclosure is absolutely paramount. The whole thing really stinks of protection of their TV services in light of people using the internet more for video, rather than true costs of doing business. Everywhere else in the developed world manages it with significantly higher limits and much cheaper service fees, why can't they? Matt. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at stok.ca Thu Feb 17 08:46:56 2011 From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:46:56 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Meeting 24 February 2011 Message-ID: <8C30D94C-ACAF-4C5A-BDE2-5E373BAF7396@stok.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Date: Thu 24 Feb 2011 18:45 EST Venue: Global Knowledge (room E on 12th floor) Topic: Work and Play Chairman: Mike Stok Synopsis: This month's topic is Perl and work. Perl we know and love, and there are many ways we can use it for ?work?. This meeting is a moderated discussion about Perl and its interaction with work, Perl coders looking for and applying for jobs, people working for orgainzations looking for Perl coders, Perl people looking at complementary technologies which help get a job. For some a job is a regular salaried ?9 to 5? affair with defined benefits and vacation; for others it's consulting and the risks and rewards of finding customers and building relationships. For some people ?work? might not even come into contact with Perl at all. How does someone know what they want from a job? What are good interview techniques from the perspective of interviewers and interviewees? What interview war stories do people have - from either side of the divide? What are the surprises and dissappointments from jobs people have had in the Toronto area? What do you really want from a job? After the meeting we will go to the Spotted Dick at 81 Bloor Street East. More information at http://to.pm.org Mike - -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk1dUQAACgkQnsTBwAWZE9olPgCgnB23Sp5Zf/sQLZk2qmlAUEVD HuoAoKgHeYjpDvPerpdsBz2ervHfJvcn =bUEA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jztam at yahoo.com Thu Feb 17 10:47:36 2011 From: jztam at yahoo.com (J Z Tam) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:47:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tpm] Meeting 24 February 2011 In-Reply-To: <8C30D94C-ACAF-4C5A-BDE2-5E373BAF7396@stok.ca> Message-ID: <190223.23427.qm@web57610.mail.re1.yahoo.com> woot woot for SpottedDick? over The Pilot.? The latter was quite Loud and more of a standUp kinda place.? THanks Mike. --- On Thu, 2/17/11, Mike Stok wrote: From: Mike Stok Subject: [tpm] Meeting 24 February 2011 To: "Toronto Perl Mongers" Received: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 11:46 AM -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Date: Thu 24 Feb 2011 18:45 EST Venue: Global Knowledge (room E on 12th floor) Topic: Work and Play Chairman: Mike Stok Synopsis: This month's topic is Perl and work. Perl we know and love, and there are many ways we can use it for ?work?. This meeting is a moderated discussion about Perl and its interaction with work, Perl coders looking for and applying for jobs, people working for orgainzations looking for Perl coders, Perl people looking at complementary technologies which help get a job. For some a job is a regular salaried ?9 to 5? affair with defined benefits and vacation; for others it's consulting and the risks and rewards of finding customers and building relationships. For some people ?work? might not even come into contact with Perl at all. How does someone know what they want from a job? What are good interview techniques from the perspective of interviewers and interviewees? What interview war stories do people have - from either side of the divide? What are the surprises and dissappointments from jobs people have had in the Toronto area? What do you really want from a job? After the meeting we will go to the Spotted Dick at 81 Bloor Street East.? ? ??? More information at http://to.pm.org Mike - -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk1dUQAACgkQnsTBwAWZE9olPgCgnB23Sp5Zf/sQLZk2qmlAUEVD HuoAoKgHeYjpDvPerpdsBz2ervHfJvcn =bUEA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ toronto-pm mailing list toronto-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at stok.ca Fri Feb 18 11:22:40 2011 From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 14:22:40 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Fwd: Books and News from the O'Reilly User Group Program--Feb References: <1298056260.25610.0.985931@post.oreilly.com> Message-ID: If you cannot read the information below, click here. Forward this annoucement to a friend Feb 2011 Issue New Releases: Droid 2: The Missing Manual By Preston Gralla Exploring North American Landscapes MCTS Self-Paced Training Kit (Exam 70-511): Windows Application Development with Microsoft .NET Framework 4 By Matthew A. Stoecker Microsoft Dynamics CRM 2011 Step by Step By Mike Snyder, Jim Steger Microsoft XNA Game Studio 4.0: Learn Programming Now! By Rob Miles The Panasonic Lumix DMC-G2 Rails Test Prescriptions By Noel Rappin Serial Photography More New Releases >> Welcome Hi there, The conference season is upon us. This week O'Reilly wrapped up our sold-out Tools of Change for Publishing Conference. Highlights include author Margaret Atwood's keynote. See what the publishing industry is doing. Are you a Maker? We're now accepting entries for the 6th Annual Maker Faire Bay Area, May 21 and 22, 2011, at the San Mateo Event Center in California.Read more online. We're also getting ready for Web 2.0 Expo, OSCON, TechEd, Mix, Railsconf, Where, Velocity, and more. Tell us what conferences you're excited about and let us know if there's a way we can help. Follow the daily deals from Microsoft Press, O'Reilly Media, and Make Magazine. Find them on twitter at at oreillymedia or follow our RSS Feeds: O'Reilly Media Microsoft Press Make Magazine Webcasts happening soon: SproutCore: Writing Code for a Multi-Device World, presented by Yehuda Katz February 22, 10am PT Essential Troubleshooting Tips for Windows 7, presented Mike Halsey February 24, 10am PT Here's our Webcast page for on-demand videos of past webcasts and more upcoming live events. Thanks, ---- Marsee Henon and Jon Johns P.S. Want to hang out? Here's a list of the places the UG team will be. If you're attending or live in the area and have time to get together, please let us know. Feb 25-27, Southern California Linux Expo (SCALE), Los Angeles, CA Mar 7-9, Best Practices Conference--SharePoint, La Jolla, CA Mar 28-31, Web 2.0 Expo, San Francisco, CA Apr 12-14, Microsoft Mix, Las Vegas, NV User Group Discounts 20% off Safari Books Online for 12 months for UG members (new subscribers only). Safari Books Online provides online access to more than 8,500 books and videos from the world's leading technology publishers. We're offering User Group members anexclusive 20% discount on monthly subscriptions to Safari Books Online for 12 months (new subscribers only). Just use coupon code "QLGSSZG". RailsConf--The official event of the Ruby on Rails Community, May 16-19, 2011--Baltimore, MD Get 15% off with code "rc11usrg" railsconf.com Web 2.0 Expo SF Co-produced by O'Reilly Media and UBM TechWeb, March 28-31, 2011--San Francisco, CA Get 20% off with code "websf11usrg" web2expo.com O'Reilly MySQL Conference & Expo MySQL: The Ecosystem and Beyond, April 11-14, 2011--Santa Clara, CA Get 20% off with code "mys11usrg" mysqlconf.com O'Reilly Where 2.0 Conference--The Business of Location, April 19-21, 2011--Santa Clara, CA Get 15% off with code "whr11usrg" where2conf.com UG leaders only--Put Up a Banner, Get a Free Book We're looking for user groups to display our discount banners on their web sites. If you send us your group's site with one or more banners posted, we'll send you the O'Reilly book(s) of your choice. Choose from the following list of banners: Web 2.0 Expo San Francisco Where 2.0 Conference 2011 MySQL Conference & Expo 2011 O'Reilly Answers Customizable O'Reilly Book Widgets O'Reilly School of Technology Upcoming Event Lesa Snider's Digital Photography on the Danube River Cruise When: Dec 3-10, 2011 Where: AMA Waterways River Cruise from Budapest to Nuremburg with Prague add-on Author Lesa Snider (Photoshop CS5: The Missing Manual, iPhoto '11: The Missing Manual) presents her first Digital Photography on the Danube, European river cruise workshop! **$250 discount for deposits placed by Feb. 28!!!** Three digital photography classes onboard, two guided photo walks onshore, free wireless Internet, all meals, beer/wine included w/dinner, one excursion per stop included, no seasickness guaranteed, and far fewer people than big cruise? More Upcoming Events >> You are receiving this email because you are a User Group contact with O'Reilly Media. If you would like to stop receiving this newsletter please email marsee at oreilly.com with your request. O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (707) 827-7000 http://oreilly.com/ | http://ug.oreilly.com/ Forward this announcement:http://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1z5nolbe9l1v547pjgfva66thckvqa3ru1jb96lug -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thakore.kartik at gmail.com Sun Feb 20 11:02:06 2011 From: thakore.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Thakore) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 14:02:06 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Review for first draft of SDL Manual: Writing Games with Perl Message-ID: Hello, I have recently finished a TPF grant to write the first draft of SDL Manual. I am working to get it published as an ebook (creative commons) and a hard copy. I would love any feedback on the book. The Book: https://github.com/PerlGameDev/SDL_Manual/raw/master/dist/SDL_Manual.pdf The repo: https://github.com/PerlGameDev/SDL_Manual Issue/bug tracker: https://github.com/PerlGameDev/SDL_Manual/issues Kartik Thakore From liam at holoweb.net Tue Feb 22 16:33:09 2011 From: liam at holoweb.net (Liam R E Quin) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:33:09 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [u-u] Usage Based Billing - What you should know.. In-Reply-To: <4D5C4A21.9030606@sergeant.org> References: <20110131155708.92886f71.darcy@druid.net> <1297449939.31908.606.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> <4D5C4A21.9030606@sergeant.org> Message-ID: <1298421189.31908.1321.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 17:05 -0500, Matt Sergeant wrote: > Liam R E Quin wrote: [...] Matt, good to hear from you. > > I do take the point that the charges are too high, but that's separate > > from charging based on usage. Bandwidth*is* a limited resource: any > > given router has a maximum capacity, any given connection has a maximum > > throughput at any given time. > There are three basic problems with the model of UBB as has been > presented to the CRTC, all of them based on a pyramid of lies and > deceptions: > > 1) The cost of $2/G. This is ridiculous and outlandish. No argument from me there. > I'm actually pro usage > based billing, if the price reflects the cost more accurately and is > reduced as the cost reduces over time. +1 > If they want to give people unlimited bandwidth on their > pipes don't you think they should be able to? I haven't been able to penetrate the rhetoric on either side to determine if that's an option or not. > 3) Bell/Rogers are already making a profit off these third party > providers. Unless and until there is COMPLETE disclosure of > profits/losses of providing services to external providers it is > entirely unreasonable of the CRTC to just take Bell's word for it that > these are the costs involved. Full disclosure is absolutely paramount. You don't generally get full disclosure of costs/profits, not least because total accounting isn't straightforward. I could go for, "clear disclosure" though. > > The whole thing really stinks of protection of their TV services in > light of people using the internet more for video, rather than true > costs of doing business. Well, that part makes sense to me. It's sometimes hard to have sympathy for people complaining about "tiny" bandwidth caps and limits massively higher than anything available here, for significantly less money... it all sounds a bit irrelevant, but maybe when I find my server hosting bill going up I'll suddenly wish I'd been more active :-) Things like peer-to-peer connections are rate limited out here in the country too, so having a higher monthly cap wouldn't necessarily mean downloading more pictures of cows or videos of sheep grazing. But it would be nice to be able to get a loaf of bread for a farthing without having to cycle up hill both ways. Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ From mike at stok.ca Wed Feb 23 02:41:27 2011 From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 05:41:27 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Thursday meeting. Message-ID: <3E3123A9-B4D1-4D4C-A9DF-F4AF07D5A6AA@stok.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This month's meeting is coming up on Thursday, see http://to.pm.org for details. I would find it interesting if we made some record of the discussion, the areas I am thinking about are: * Interview techniques from the Company side * Interview techniques from the Prospective Employee side * What should / shouldn't be said or put in a resume * Identifying good companies (before it's too late) * Identifying make or break characteristics Some of my opinions about work are influenced by Peopleware http://www.dorsethouse.com/books/pw.html and some of my thoughts about management are influenced by Lucy Kellaway's humorous podcasts from the Financial Times. In a recent podcast Lucy Kellaway suggested that there are some simple criteria for sussing out a good employer. The employer: 1) Makes sure that everyone has a proper job to do 2) Pays people fairly 3) Makes employees feel that their efforts are recognized 4) Gives employees nice people to work with The simplest way to see if a company is doing that is maybe to see how long people stay at the job (ignoring departures in the first couple of years and forced departures). See you on Thursday, and afterwards at the Spotted Dick. Mike - -- Mike Stok http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk1k5FcACgkQnsTBwAWZE9rHbACgrenMgI5lRLWEqfKDtOUtuEEX ud4Anj4xKKSpzkyeP7t6DbBBNLJOUj2v =yG1u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cgi at bytesinteractive.com Wed Feb 23 09:07:56 2011 From: cgi at bytesinteractive.com (David Jourard) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 12:07:56 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Programmers should help another programmer held in Iran for being a progammer and facing the death penalty Message-ID: Hi, I hope this not going against protocol but I'm sure most of you are aware of web developer facing execution in Iran. On the cbc this morning there was an interview with his wife and its tragic; also its sounds like the govt is doing little or nothing about it (from what it sounded just spin) The facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Free-Saeed-Malekpour/161905933838301?v=wall There are only 1200 people liking it. There should be 10 to the power 6 at least. I feel it's a responsibility of all programmers to protest since maybe one day it could be you if you visit a country like Iran. regards David Jourard Byte Interactive From daniel at benoy.name Wed Feb 23 13:29:27 2011 From: daniel at benoy.name (daniel at benoy.name) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 16:29:27 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [u-u] Usage Based Billing - What you should know.. In-Reply-To: <1298421189.31908.1321.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> References: <20110131155708.92886f71.darcy@druid.net> <1297449939.31908.606.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> <4D5C4A21.9030606@sergeant.org> <1298421189.31908.1321.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> Message-ID: <98d7497c8cbf29722803442c608eb01f@benoy.name> >> If they want to give people unlimited bandwidth on their >> pipes don't you think they should be able to? > > I haven't been able to penetrate the rhetoric on either side to > determine if that's an option or not. If you want, you can do some research yourself into these costs. There are two networks your data passes into before reaching the internet at large if you're a Bell or Rogers customer. First, the local network controlled by your ISP that gets your data to nearby central facilities, and from there to main datacenters. Second, there's the datacenter's peer connections (the 'internet backbones'). You can go check out some major bandwidth providers and see what their rates are. They generally charge a fixed rate based on link capacity, or on 95th percentile usage based billing. As for the ISP network, typically the interconnects between the local user facilities and their datacenters (called 'backhauls') will be dark fiber connections or simple LAN extensions supplied by third parties and they won't pay based on usage at all, and in the case of cable, the actual cable lines themselves become a kind of shared network for each neighborhood. (The current network system of this type in wide deployment is called DOCSIS 3) Unfortunately, it's a lot harder to research these types of costs for yourself, because Bell and Rogers aren't about to tell everyone how efficient/inefficient their network is. To complicate matters further, the CRTC enforces a 'one cable and one phone carrier per area' rule. (All third party providers are actually just leasing lines from Bell or Rogers.) So, with their monopoly position over their respective territories, there's no way to compare competing DSL or cable provider prices, so we're forced to take their word for it when they claim that $2/GB is simply the cost of bandwidth. The way I see it, the government just needs to let multiple companies run their cables to your house, so that they can compete on the basis of their entire network, from top to bottom, and this problem will evaporate as third party ISPs like teksavvy elect to just run their own phone, fiber, and cable lines rather than deal with Bell and Rogers. (Or, under the threat of that happening, Bell and Rogers are forced to shape up) From alexmac131 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 24 15:59:36 2011 From: alexmac131 at hotmail.com (Alex Mackinnon) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 23:59:36 +0000 Subject: [tpm] head hunter spam In-Reply-To: <3E3123A9-B4D1-4D4C-A9DF-F4AF07D5A6AA@stok.ca> References: <3E3123A9-B4D1-4D4C-A9DF-F4AF07D5A6AA@stok.ca> Message-ID: Ever get spam from bluelime? Anyone else deal with this company? Seems he likes to spam and abuse people who complain to him, avoid at all costs:) Just a tip for all you perl mongers. ------- Can't make tonights pm meeting but next month sure. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.s.doyle at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 17:36:02 2011 From: dave.s.doyle at gmail.com (Dave Doyle) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 20:36:02 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Whiteboard from our meeting Message-ID: <1B3D9909-E218-4165-BF5F-A5C918D32033@gmail.com> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: photo.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2216461 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- Sent from my iPhone dave.s.doyle at gmail.com From jbl at jbldata.com Fri Feb 25 08:20:10 2011 From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:20:10 -0500 Subject: [tpm] For Abuzar and others not familar - DDWRT, Web-based File Server Message-ID: We were talking about setting up MLPPP and Hotspots.. DD-WRT: http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/index DD-WRT's built-in Hotspot Software - Chillispot: http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Chillispot Full-multi-line MLPPP won't be available until the next major release of DD-WRT (v 25), but single-line ML-PPP (SL-PPP) is currently available, depending on your hardware: http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=31363&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105&sid=7d90d15ee3b1089ad7fcadd116e9d129 If I were you, I'd wait for v25, because the DD-WRT builds are fairly hardware specific. With regards to web-based file servers, found one that might be of interest: http://www.rejetto.com/hfs/ And of course, there's the fairly well featured PHP File Navigator: http://pfn.sourceforge.net/ Cheers, -Bobby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at sergeant.org Mon Feb 28 07:38:11 2011 From: matt at sergeant.org (Matt Sergeant) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:38:11 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [u-u] Usage Based Billing - What you should know.. In-Reply-To: <98d7497c8cbf29722803442c608eb01f@benoy.name> References: <20110131155708.92886f71.darcy@druid.net> <1297449939.31908.606.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> <4D5C4A21.9030606@sergeant.org> <1298421189.31908.1321.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> <98d7497c8cbf29722803442c608eb01f@benoy.name> Message-ID: <4D6BC163.2090400@sergeant.org> daniel at benoy.name wrote: > The way I see it, the government just needs to let multiple companies > run their cables to your house, so that they can compete on the basis > of their entire network, from top to bottom, and this problem will > evaporate as third party ISPs like teksavvy elect to just run their > own phone, fiber, and cable lines rather than deal with Bell and > Rogers. (Or, under the threat of that happening, Bell and Rogers are > forced to shape up) It's worth noting that in the last place I lived, we had Telus lines direct to the condo, and had 100Mbps ethernet direct to 151 Front St (well, 100Mbps to the switch, Gig-ether to 151 Front), and no limits. It was $50 a month plus tax. So if they wire it themselves the cost is quite doable. Matt.