From mike at stok.ca  Thu Jan  7 16:00:28 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 19:00:28 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Happy new year.
Message-ID: <F5A43FE5-683B-4C50-904F-993C99AF5F75@stok.ca>

I hope that all the Toronto Perl Mongers had a good holiday season, and have a good year in 2010.

Does anyone have a presentation for January?  The meeting should be on Thursday 28 January, and some of the ideas from last year included a hackathon, presentations about interesting / favorite modules, possibly an EXIF talk after April.

If you have any ideas or suggestions then air them on the list.

Regards,

Mike

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From antoniosun at lavabit.com  Sat Jan  9 09:52:36 2010
From: antoniosun at lavabit.com (Antonio Sun)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:52:36 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Replace a string with the result of shell command
Message-ID: <dd6771c21001090952o97fbae7ub9554f8ae48a9cef@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Here is the simplified example of what I want to do:

  DB<1> $v = 'AAabcDDabc'
  DB<2> $v = m/abc/`echo $& | rev`/g
Backticks found where operator expected . . .

Please don't take it literally, and argue that shell invoking is not
necessary -- I want to replace a certain string with the result of shell
command, and pass the matched string to the shell command as well.

Please help.
Thanks

Antonio
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From indy at indigostar.com  Sat Jan  9 10:27:13 2010
From: indy at indigostar.com (Indy Singh)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:27:13 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Replace a string with the result of shell command
References: <dd6771c21001090952o97fbae7ub9554f8ae48a9cef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2DE119D484B740629A118415E55D3EE5@ROADKILL>

This might be closer to what you want:
$v = 'AAabcDDabc';
$v =~ s/abc/`echo $& | rev`/eg;

Note: 
Replace '=' with '=~'
Replace 'm' with 's'
Use the /e operator

Indy Singh
IndigoSTAR Software -- www.indigostar.com

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Antonio Sun 
  To: TPM Mongers 
  Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:52 PM
  Subject: [tpm] Replace a string with the result of shell command


  Hi, 

      Here is the simplified example of what I want to do:

    DB<1> $v = 'AAabcDDabc'
    DB<2> $v = m/abc/`echo $& | rev`/g
  Backticks found where operator expected . . . 

  Please don't take it literally, and argue that shell invoking is not necessary -- I want to replace a certain string with the result of shell command, and pass the matched string to the shell command as well.

  Please help.
  Thanks

  Antonio




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  toronto-pm mailing list
  toronto-pm at pm.org
  http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
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From mike at stok.ca  Sat Jan  9 10:28:23 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:28:23 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Replace a string with the result of shell command
In-Reply-To: <dd6771c21001090952o97fbae7ub9554f8ae48a9cef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd6771c21001090952o97fbae7ub9554f8ae48a9cef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0E061607-8AE3-4AC4-BA20-A15715F7B8E7@stok.ca>


On Jan 9, 2010, at 12:52 PM, Antonio Sun wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> Here is the simplified example of what I want to do:
> 
>   DB<1> $v = 'AAabcDDabc'
>   DB<2> $v = m/abc/`echo $& | rev`/g
> Backticks found where operator expected . . . 
> 
> Please don't take it literally, and argue that shell invoking is not necessary -- I want to replace a certain string with the result of shell command, and pass the matched string to the shell command as well.

f you really want to do it that way then you can use s///ge for example:

  DB<1> sub rev_chomp { my $v = `echo $_[0] | rev`; chomp $v; $v }

  DB<2> x rev_chomp 'foo'
0  'oof'
  DB<3> $v = 'AAabcDDabc'

  DB<4> $v =~ s/(abc)/rev_chomp($1)/ge

  DB<5> x $v
0  'AAcbaDDcba'

Hope this helps,

Mike

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From antoniosun at lavabit.com  Sat Jan  9 10:58:25 2010
From: antoniosun at lavabit.com (Antonio Sun)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:58:25 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Replace a string with the result of shell command
In-Reply-To: <2DE119D484B740629A118415E55D3EE5@ROADKILL>
References: <dd6771c21001090952o97fbae7ub9554f8ae48a9cef@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DE119D484B740629A118415E55D3EE5@ROADKILL>
Message-ID: <dd6771c21001091058w2f535952p32badb89056fd70e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Indy Singh <indy at indigostar.com> wrote:

>  This might be closer to what you want:
> $v = 'AAabcDDabc';
> $v =~ s/abc/`echo $& | rev`/eg;
>

Yep, that works fine. thanks a lot.
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From adam.prime at utoronto.ca  Wed Jan 13 20:47:27 2010
From: adam.prime at utoronto.ca (Adam Prime)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:47:27 -0500
Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: [yapc] yapc Digest, Vol 48, Issue 1]
Message-ID: <4B4EA1DF.6050701@utoronto.ca>

FYI

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [yapc] yapc Digest, Vol 48, Issue 1
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:57:14 -0500
From: BAIRH at nationwide.com
To: yapc at pm.org

Just as an FYI

YAPC::NA::2010

June 21, 22, 23rd, 2010.
At Ohio State University, Knowlton Hall
( http://www.osu.edu/map/building.php?building=017  )

We are going to sign the hotel block tomorrow and once that is done I will
send out details.)

Larry, Randal, and Damian will all be there.  Randal and Damian will also
be teaching master classes on Thursday June 24th and Friday June 25th.

From linux at alteeve.com  Thu Jan 14 07:39:46 2010
From: linux at alteeve.com (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:39:46 -0500
Subject: [tpm] fork and blessed hash references
Message-ID: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>

Hi all,

   I want to put a shutdown timer on a spawnable daemon (specifically, a 
script spawned by dbus). To do this, I created a bless'ed "self" hash 
reference in my module's constructor, set a few time values in it and 
the call a timer method. In the timer method, I 'fork' and the child 
starts a loop and the main script returns and waits for method calls 
over dbus.

   The problem is that, in the child process, changes to the values in 
'self' made by the parent do not appear in the child. Specifically, each 
method call changes a '$self->{SHUTDOWN_TIME}' value. I can understand 
this behavior to an extent, but when I print out the hash reference 
itself both in the parent and the child, they have the same reference 
string. Obviously though, they aren't actually using the same memory space.

   So two questions;

1. Why do the self references match when they don't (apparently) use the 
same memory space

2. What is the best way to "share" variables between children and parents?

   Currently I am working around the problem by writing out my timing 
info to a tmp file, but this seems to be unnecessarily expensive.

Thanks all!

Madi

From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 07:49:57 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:49:57 -0500
Subject: [tpm] fork and blessed hash references
In-Reply-To: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>
References: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1001140749s492b3e8u8c274847f16fabc7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Madison Kelly <linux at alteeve.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>  I want to put a shutdown timer on a spawnable daemon (specifically, a
> script spawned by dbus). To do this, I created a bless'ed "self" hash
> reference in my module's constructor, set a few time values in it and the
> call a timer method. In the timer method, I 'fork' and the child starts a
> loop and the main script returns and waits for method calls over dbus.
>
>  The problem is that, in the child process, changes to the values in 'self'
> made by the parent do not appear in the child. Specifically, each method
> call changes a '$self->{SHUTDOWN_TIME}' value. I can understand this
> behavior to an extent, but when I print out the hash reference itself both
> in the parent and the child, they have the same reference string. Obviously
> though, they aren't actually using the same memory space.
>
>  So two questions;
>
> 1. Why do the self references match when they don't (apparently) use the
> same memory space
>

Because a forked process contains a 'copy' of the parent process.  Since its
an exact copy, it
effectively has exactly the same memory addresses. (but they are in a
separate instance of memory space)

>
> 2. What is the best way to "share" variables between children and parents?
>

Pipes, shared memory, files, sockets, etc.  There is no 'best' way.
Originally forked process (parent/child) were intended to be 'very
independent'
and hence don't 'share memory', and are protected from the other's 'bugs',
and your only choices are the ones above.

Then the world invented threads, where everything runs in the same process
space
and effectively shares everything, were one thread can accidentally (bug)
walk over
everything.

Currently I am working around the problem by writing out my timing info to a
> tmp file,

but this seems to be unnecessarily expensive.
>
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From indy at indigostar.com  Thu Jan 14 08:01:43 2010
From: indy at indigostar.com (Indy Singh)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:01:43 -0500
Subject: [tpm] fork and blessed hash references
References: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <E6EED6797FE44681887C208E299B1327@ROADKILL>

> 2. What is the best way to "share" variables between children and 
> parents?
Have a look at 'perldoc perlipc'

> 1. Why do the self references match when they don't (apparently) use 
> the same memory space
The two processes use the same logical memory address, but it gets 
mapped to a differnt physical address.  This way the processes are 
protected from each other.  If you really wanted to share memory you 
would have to call the memory sharing functions provided by the OS.  No 
sure how to do that from Perl, or if it is even worth the trouble.

Indy Singh
IndigoSTAR Software -- www.indigostar.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Madison Kelly" <linux at alteeve.com>
To: "Toronto Perl Mongers" <tpm at to.pm.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:39 AM
Subject: [tpm] fork and blessed hash references


> Hi all,
>
>   I want to put a shutdown timer on a spawnable daemon (specifically, 
> a script spawned by dbus). To do this, I created a bless'ed "self" 
> hash reference in my module's constructor, set a few time values in it 
> and the call a timer method. In the timer method, I 'fork' and the 
> child starts a loop and the main script returns and waits for method 
> calls over dbus.
>
>   The problem is that, in the child process, changes to the values in 
> 'self' made by the parent do not appear in the child. Specifically, 
> each method call changes a '$self->{SHUTDOWN_TIME}' value. I can 
> understand this behavior to an extent, but when I print out the hash 
> reference itself both in the parent and the child, they have the same 
> reference string. Obviously though, they aren't actually using the 
> same memory space.
>
>   So two questions;
>
> 1. Why do the self references match when they don't (apparently) use 
> the same memory space
>
> 2. What is the best way to "share" variables between children and 
> parents?
>
>   Currently I am working around the problem by writing out my timing 
> info to a tmp file, but this seems to be unnecessarily expensive.
>
> Thanks all!
>
> Madi
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm 


From abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es  Thu Jan 14 08:03:13 2010
From: abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es (Abram Hindle)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:03:13 -0500
Subject: [tpm] fork and blessed hash references
In-Reply-To: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>
	(sfid-20100114_104214_549120_E1EAD265)
References: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>
	(sfid-20100114_104214_549120_E1EAD265)
Message-ID: <4B4F4041.70006@softwareprocess.es>

Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>   I want to put a shutdown timer on a spawnable daemon (specifically, a
> script spawned by dbus). To do this, I created a bless'ed "self" hash
> reference in my module's constructor, set a few time values in it and
> the call a timer method. In the timer method, I 'fork' and the child
> starts a loop and the main script returns and waits for method calls
> over dbus.
> 
>   The problem is that, in the child process, changes to the values in
> 'self' made by the parent do not appear in the child. Specifically, each
> method call changes a '$self->{SHUTDOWN_TIME}' value. I can understand
> this behavior to an extent, but when I print out the hash reference
> itself both in the parent and the child, they have the same reference
> string. Obviously though, they aren't actually using the same memory space.

They are clones of each other, their pointers are of the same value but
the memory space each resides in belongs to a different process.
Processes do not share pages.

>   So two questions;
> 
> 1. Why do the self references match when they don't (apparently) use the
> same memory space

Fork produces a new process that is a copy of the old one. From your
point of view they don't share the same the same memory, they are just
clones of each other. (There's a bunch of other lameness and limitations
but you can read 'man fork').

> 2. What is the best way to "share" variables between children and parents?

You don't. You have to communicate. Generally you open a socket or a
pipe between the processes and then when you want to share values you
make up a protocol to do so.

You can also used shared memory, like mmap, but even then you need to
work out what you want to do.

Perhaps you want to use threads?

Other solutions are:
RPC, CORBA, DBUS, etc.

Forking is often easiest if you have 1 way communication, then you just
write to the pipe from the parent and read from it as the child. You can
use select (perldoc select) to periodically check if anything new has
been sent down.

perldoc perlipc

abram

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From uri at StemSystems.com  Thu Jan 14 08:11:39 2010
From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:11:39 -0500
Subject: [tpm] fork and blessed hash references
In-Reply-To: <E6EED6797FE44681887C208E299B1327@ROADKILL>
	(Indy Singh's message of "Thu\, 14 Jan 2010 11\:01\:43 -0500")
References: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>
	<E6EED6797FE44681887C208E299B1327@ROADKILL>
Message-ID: <87wrzkis3o.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "IS" == Indy Singh <indy at indigostar.com> writes:

  >> 1. Why do the self references match when they don't (apparently) use
  >> the same memory space

  IS> The two processes use the same logical memory address, but it gets
  IS> mapped to a differnt physical address.  This way the processes are
  IS> protected from each other.  If you really wanted to share memory you
  IS> would have to call the memory sharing functions provided by the OS.

just to be pedantic, they map to the same virtual address and you don't
know or care about the physical address. in fact, some of the perl
interpreter could map to same physical address if it is read only binary
code. and some of the data space could also be mapped to the same
physical address if that is marked copy-on-write.

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri at stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------

From linux at alteeve.com  Thu Jan 14 08:16:55 2010
From: linux at alteeve.com (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:16:55 -0500
Subject: [tpm] fork and blessed hash references
In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe1001140749s492b3e8u8c274847f16fabc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>
	<8204a4fe1001140749s492b3e8u8c274847f16fabc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4F4377.8030304@alteeve.com>

Fulko Hew wrote:
>      So two questions;
> 
>     1. Why do the self references match when they don't (apparently) use
>     the same memory space
> 
> 
> Because a forked process contains a 'copy' of the parent process.  Since 
> its an exact copy, it
> effectively has exactly the same memory addresses. (but they are in a 
> separate instance of memory space)
> 
> 
>     2. What is the best way to "share" variables between children and
>     parents?
> 
> 
> Pipes, shared memory, files, sockets, etc.  There is no 'best' way.
> Originally forked process (parent/child) were intended to be 'very 
> independent'
> and hence don't 'share memory', and are protected from the other's 'bugs',
> and your only choices are the ones above.
> 
> Then the world invented threads, where everything runs in the same 
> process space
> and effectively shares everything, were one thread can accidentally 
> (bug) walk over
> everything.
> 
>     Currently I am working around the problem by writing out my timing
>     info to a tmp file,
> 
>     but this seems to be unnecessarily expensive.

Thanks Fulko!

   I didn't realize that the "copy" duplicated what looked to me to be 
memory addresses while not actually being so.

   I ran this by my boss after sending this (it's not a work project, 
but he's a geek enough to take interest). He suggested posix's settimer, 
which perl doesn't seem to implement. However, that led us to 'alarm', 
which might just be the ticket.

   The idea is; Setup a SIGALARM handler that shuts down the daemon, 
then on setup set an alarm for X time in the future. After that, each 
method call can call 'alarm' for Y time in the future, hopefully 
clearing the current pending alarm(s) and pushing the back into the 
future. Once there is enough time with no activity, the SIGALARM will 
call the handler and will shut down the daemon.

   This should let me stay in the same memory space without the risks of 
threading while leaving the daemon ready to respond to method calls. 
Think this should work?

   Every day, something new to learn. I love this stuff. :3

Madi

From stuart at morungos.com  Thu Jan 14 08:25:30 2010
From: stuart at morungos.com (Stuart Watt)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:25:30 -0500
Subject: [tpm] fork and blessed hash references
In-Reply-To: <4B4F4377.8030304@alteeve.com>
References: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>	<8204a4fe1001140749s492b3e8u8c274847f16fabc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B4F4377.8030304@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4B4F457A.4030606@morungos.com>

Madison Kelly wrote:
> However, that led us to 'alarm', which might just be the ticket.
>
>   The idea is; Setup a SIGALARM handler that shuts down the daemon, 
> then on setup set an alarm for X time in the future. After that, each 
> method call can call 'alarm' for Y time in the future, hopefully 
> clearing the current pending alarm(s) and pushing the back into the 
> future. Once there is enough time with no activity, the SIGALARM will 
> call the handler and will shut down the daemon. 
alarm works very well for timeouts - we even use it on Windows, which 
breaks fork() even more. If notification is all you need, not data 
sharing, its all fairly straightforward.

For data sharing, it sounds slightly crazy, but the simplest solution 
for us was to use DBI and SQLite, with its exclusive transactions. These 
allows us to coordinate safe data access between processes, and it works 
on all platforms safely.

All the best
Stuart


From janes.rob at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 08:49:30 2010
From: janes.rob at gmail.com (Rob Janes)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:49:30 -0500
Subject: [tpm] fork and blessed hash references
In-Reply-To: <4B4F457A.4030606@morungos.com>
References: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>
	<8204a4fe1001140749s492b3e8u8c274847f16fabc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B4F4377.8030304@alteeve.com> <4B4F457A.4030606@morungos.com>
Message-ID: <83eac04d1001140849q56b2a360v1de05e201b93921a@mail.gmail.com>

check out Time::HiRes for alarms with granularity less than one second.

the perl ipc stuff allows you to access a shared memory region.  From
a c perspective, the ipc shared memory is truly shared.  I looked at
the perl shared memory code, and I believe what it does is copy the
shared memory region into a perl variable.  Updates to the shared
memory must be copied back manually via call to perl ipc method.

In order to make this work, you'll also have to get a semaphore to
serialize access to the shared memory region.

there is an alternative process.  set a signal handler for one of the
user signals SIGUSR1 say.  Send a signal to that process and handler
to reset the timer.  Your SIGALRM handler then is in a process which
also has a SIGUSR1 handler.  The SIGUSR1 handler resets the timer.
This way you don't need shared memory or semaphores.  Much easier,
much less complicated.  All that needs to be known globally is the pid
(process id) and maybe the tid (thread id) of the SIGUSR1 handler.

-rob janes
arjay at cpan.org

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Stuart Watt <stuart at morungos.com> wrote:
> Madison Kelly wrote:
>>
>> However, that led us to 'alarm', which might just be the ticket.
>>
>> ?The idea is; Setup a SIGALARM handler that shuts down the daemon, then on
>> setup set an alarm for X time in the future. After that, each method call
>> can call 'alarm' for Y time in the future, hopefully clearing the current
>> pending alarm(s) and pushing the back into the future. Once there is enough
>> time with no activity, the SIGALARM will call the handler and will shut down
>> the daemon.
>
> alarm works very well for timeouts - we even use it on Windows, which breaks
> fork() even more. If notification is all you need, not data sharing, its all
> fairly straightforward.
>
> For data sharing, it sounds slightly crazy, but the simplest solution for us
> was to use DBI and SQLite, with its exclusive transactions. These allows us
> to coordinate safe data access between processes, and it works on all
> platforms safely.
>
> All the best
> Stuart
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>

From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 09:13:25 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:13:25 -0500
Subject: [tpm] fork and blessed hash references
In-Reply-To: <83eac04d1001140849q56b2a360v1de05e201b93921a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>
	<8204a4fe1001140749s492b3e8u8c274847f16fabc7@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B4F4377.8030304@alteeve.com> <4B4F457A.4030606@morungos.com> 
	<83eac04d1001140849q56b2a360v1de05e201b93921a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1001140913i191e41b9ubb1f787165c14f2e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Rob Janes <janes.rob at gmail.com> wrote:
... snip ...


> there is an alternative process.  set a signal handler for one of the
> user signals SIGUSR1 say.  Send a signal to that process and handler
> to reset the timer.  Your SIGALRM handler then is in a process which
> also has a SIGUSR1 handler.  The SIGUSR1 handler resets the timer.
> This way you don't need shared memory or semaphores.  Much easier,
> much less complicated.  All that needs to be known globally is the pid
> (process id) and maybe the tid (thread id) of the SIGUSR1 handler.
>

The caveat  for using signals, is that they interrupt whatever might be
going on,
which is good, but if you were in the middle of a read or write (like to a
socket
or a file), the call to read, write, etc. can be interrupted.  So if you are
not looking
at their return values (which sometimes tells you how much was 'actually'
read or written), you might find out that the 'whole' buffer wasn't
processed
and you have to handle that (outstanding) fragment yourself.  But thats just
good programming anyway.  But its not normally a condition you need to
consider... if there is no way your application _could_ get interrupted.
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From janes.rob at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 09:21:06 2010
From: janes.rob at gmail.com (Rob Janes)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:21:06 -0500
Subject: [tpm] fork and blessed hash references
In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe1001140913i191e41b9ubb1f787165c14f2e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B4F3AC2.7000503@alteeve.com>
	<8204a4fe1001140749s492b3e8u8c274847f16fabc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B4F4377.8030304@alteeve.com> <4B4F457A.4030606@morungos.com>
	<83eac04d1001140849q56b2a360v1de05e201b93921a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8204a4fe1001140913i191e41b9ubb1f787165c14f2e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83eac04d1001140921r35a29a58q6d440031facd81a8@mail.gmail.com>

good advice.  this caveat applies to all signals, SIGALRM included.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Fulko Hew <fulko.hew at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Rob Janes <janes.rob at gmail.com> wrote:
> ... snip ...
>
>>
>> there is an alternative process. ?set a signal handler for one of the
>> user signals SIGUSR1 say. ?Send a signal to that process and handler
>> to reset the timer. ?Your SIGALRM handler then is in a process which
>> also has a SIGUSR1 handler. ?The SIGUSR1 handler resets the timer.
>> This way you don't need shared memory or semaphores. ?Much easier,
>> much less complicated. ?All that needs to be known globally is the pid
>> (process id) and maybe the tid (thread id) of the SIGUSR1 handler.
>
> The caveat? for using signals, is that they interrupt whatever might be
> going on,
> which is good, but if you were in the middle of a read or write (like to a
> socket
> or a file), the call to read, write, etc. can be interrupted.? So if you are
> not looking
> at their return values (which sometimes tells you how much was 'actually'
> read or written), you might find out that the 'whole' buffer wasn't
> processed
> and you have to handle that (outstanding) fragment yourself.? But thats just
> good programming anyway.? But its not normally a condition you need to
> consider... if there is no way your application _could_ get interrupted.
>
>
>
>

From arocker at vex.net  Thu Jan 14 16:21:49 2010
From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 19:21:49 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl modules
Message-ID: <e84614e27fc7edb3dd59355b9356acb8.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>


I defined a set of subroutines in a module.

They worked perfectly well when the module was in the same directory as
the caller.

Then I moved the module to a directory on the @INC array, so it would
become generally available, and now it's broken. Specifically, although
the program compiles, when running it dies with an "Undefined subroutine
&main::whatever" message.

What have I done wrong?



From sfryer at sourcery.ca  Thu Jan 14 17:07:55 2010
From: sfryer at sourcery.ca (Shaun Fryer)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:07:55 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Fwd:  Perl modules
In-Reply-To: <982579711001141705v3eb4bce9xfe7214386acc329f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e84614e27fc7edb3dd59355b9356acb8.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>
	<982579711001141705v3eb4bce9xfe7214386acc329f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <982579711001141707g667ac1d4geec92592e4cefdad@mail.gmail.com>

without seeing the code, it's hard to know for sure, but my guess would be
you tried to import something (or didn't) for which there's no export. the
&main::whatever is the clue here.

if you're doing something like...

use Foo;
foo_function();

and getting &main::foo_function(), it's because Foo is not automatically
exporting foo_function(). you might try doing.

use Foo;
Foo::foo_function();

or perhaps you meant to do.

use Foo qw(foo_function);

and forgot..?

or use Exporter (et al), or
http://perl.plover.com/TPC/1998/Hardware-notes.html#Manual_Exporting

anyway, that'd be my guess based on available info.

cheers,
--
Shaun Fryer

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 7:21 PM, <arocker at vex.net> wrote:

>
> I defined a set of subroutines in a module.
>
> They worked perfectly well when the module was in the same directory as
> the caller.
>
> Then I moved the module to a directory on the @INC array, so it would
> become generally available, and now it's broken. Specifically, although
> the program compiles, when running it dies with an "Undefined subroutine
> &main::whatever" message.
>
> What have I done wrong?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>
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From uri at StemSystems.com  Thu Jan 14 17:59:21 2010
From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:59:21 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl modules
In-Reply-To: <e84614e27fc7edb3dd59355b9356acb8.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>
	(arocker@vex.net's message of "Thu\, 14 Jan 2010 19\:21\:49 -0500")
References: <e84614e27fc7edb3dd59355b9356acb8.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>
Message-ID: <87my0gdt6u.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "a" == arocker  <arocker at vex.net> writes:

  a> I defined a set of subroutines in a module.

  a> They worked perfectly well when the module was in the same directory as
  a> the caller.

  a> Then I moved the module to a directory on the @INC array, so it would
  a> become generally available, and now it's broken. Specifically, although
  a> the program compiles, when running it dies with an "Undefined subroutine
  a> &main::whatever" message.

  a> What have I done wrong?

sounds like namespace issues. did you put a package name in the module?
if you did, you need to export those subs to the main:: space (or
whereever the module is used) so those sub names are visible. this is
easily done with the Exporter module and some others do it too. the
basic way would be something like this:

package FooBar ;

use base 'Exporter' ;

our @EXPORT = qw( &foo &bar ) ;

and in the main code:

use FooBar ;

then subs foo() and bar() should be available.

if you didn't use a package command (which isn't needed but useful) then
the subs would be in main:: anyhow and you wouldn't get that
problem. but using a namespace for a module is a good idea as you can
manage larger amounts of code that way.

one other solution is to use fully qualified names in the main:: code:

this calls the foo() sub in that module which you loaded earlier.

FooBar::foo() ;

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri at stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------

From mike at stok.ca  Fri Jan 15 04:56:03 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:56:03 -0500
Subject: [tpm] January talk(s)
Message-ID: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>

As we don't have any presentation lined up for this month, I'm asking for volunteers to spend five or ten minutes to show us some Perl related trick(s), tool(s), or module(s) of their choice.  Reasons for picking a module could include, but aren't limited to:

  * It' s something you have found invaluable over the past year(s)
  * It's the one solid module out of dozens which do the same thing, and you're glad you settled on it
  * It's entertaining
  * It has code which surprised or amazed you
  * It changed the way you do Perl projects
  * It changed the way you think about Perl
  * It's a commonly used module, but you've discovered a neat trick
  * etc.

Think of the session as similar to lightning talks.

Mike

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 05:44:17 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:44:17 -0500
Subject: [tpm] January talk(s)
In-Reply-To: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>
References: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1001150544g7cbb9226p31ef127735c7349b@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca> wrote:

> As we don't have any presentation lined up for this month,
>

Can someone do a quick talk on the 'SQL injection' problem and how to avoid
it?

Fulko
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From arocker at vex.net  Fri Jan 15 05:45:43 2010
From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:45:43 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl modules
Message-ID: <84d6f38bdeea91f1cdec20e8c1aae5e0.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>


Thanks, everybody for the ideas, most of which were quite close to the truth.

As usual in an apparently paradoxical problem description, the answer lay
in something omitted.

I said "I" moved the module to a system library; actually it was a system
administrator who did that. He moved it into a directory containing
locally developed modules, and renamed it to match the local standard.

What he forgot to do, and what didn't occur to until I went home, was to
change the "package" statement in the module to match its new name.
Consequently, Perl found the file, but didn't name the subroutines
appropriately.

E.g. Original filename - Foo.pm  contains "package Foo:" - works
     New filename - Local/Foo    contains "package Foo;" - broken
                    Local/Foo    contains "package Local::Foo" - works


From linux at alteeve.com  Fri Jan 15 06:22:01 2010
From: linux at alteeve.com (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:22:01 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Saw this on Reddit this morning; MSNBOT DDoS against CPAN
Message-ID: <4B507A09.3080505@alteeve.com>

http://blogs.perl.org/users/cpan_testers/2010/01/msnbot-must-die.html

Anyone have any more insight into it?

Madi

From uri at StemSystems.com  Fri Jan 15 11:10:28 2010
From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:10:28 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl modules
In-Reply-To: <84d6f38bdeea91f1cdec20e8c1aae5e0.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>
	(arocker@vex.net's message of "Fri\, 15 Jan 2010 08\:45\:43 -0500")
References: <84d6f38bdeea91f1cdec20e8c1aae5e0.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>
Message-ID: <87wrzj89qz.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "a" == arocker  <arocker at vex.net> writes:

  a> Thanks, everybody for the ideas, most of which were quite close to
  a> the truth.

  a> As usual in an apparently paradoxical problem description, the answer lay
  a> in something omitted.

well, we weren't using PSI::ESP so we couldn't divine the truth!

  a> What he forgot to do, and what didn't occur to until I went home,
  a> was to change the "package" statement in the module to match its
  a> new name.  Consequently, Perl found the file, but didn't name the
  a> subroutines appropriately.

the usual mismatch of file/path name and package name.

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri at stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------

From ceeshek at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 21:37:21 2010
From: ceeshek at gmail.com (Cees Hek)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:37:21 +1100
Subject: [tpm] January talk(s)
In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe1001150544g7cbb9226p31ef127735c7349b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>
	<8204a4fe1001150544g7cbb9226p31ef127735c7349b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fd8e28ef1001152137je9df3barbc9f067233b33eed@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Fulko Hew <fulko.hew at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can someone do a quick talk on the 'SQL injection' problem and how to avoid
> it?

I always found this to be a good introduction to the SQL Injection problem  ;)

http://xkcd.com/327/

Cheers,

Cees

From arocker at vex.net  Sat Jan 16 11:51:39 2010
From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:51:39 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl modules
In-Reply-To: <87wrzj89qz.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
References: <84d6f38bdeea91f1cdec20e8c1aae5e0.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>
	<87wrzj89qz.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
Message-ID: <07121f20970aca75949288fb1e15404c.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>


>   a> new name.  Consequently, Perl found the file, but didn't name the
>   a> subroutines appropriately.
>
> the usual mismatch of file/path name and package name.
>
> uri

It should be possible to write an automatic checker/corrector for that.
I'll have to think about it.


From uri at StemSystems.com  Sat Jan 16 12:05:47 2010
From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:05:47 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl modules
In-Reply-To: <07121f20970aca75949288fb1e15404c.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>
	(arocker@vex.net's message of "Sat\, 16 Jan 2010 14\:51\:39 -0500")
References: <84d6f38bdeea91f1cdec20e8c1aae5e0.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>
	<87wrzj89qz.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
	<07121f20970aca75949288fb1e15404c.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>
Message-ID: <87wrzhx1b8.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "a" == arocker  <arocker at vex.net> writes:

  a> new name.  Consequently, Perl found the file, but didn't name the
  a> subroutines appropriately.
  >> 
  >> the usual mismatch of file/path name and package name.
  >> 
  >> uri

  a> It should be possible to write an automatic checker/corrector for that.
  a> I'll have to think about it.

think hard for several reasons. you can have multiple package names in
one file (only one with the matching path name will have its import
method called by use) and multiple files can have the same package
name. if your code is pure OO then no import() need to be called and
that works with multiple classes in the same file. usually these are
very related or helper classes. with multiple files with the same class
name, again, it should be pure OO or with no importing needed. this is
done when you have larger amounts of code in the same class and use
multiple files to organize it better. i have used both multi's in the
same system for the correct reasons but it was all pure OO so it works well.

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri at stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------

From abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es  Mon Jan 18 19:30:39 2010
From: abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es (Abram Hindle)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:30:39 -0500
Subject: [tpm] January talk(s)
In-Reply-To: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>
	(sfid-20100115_080007_146938_EAD1268B)
References: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>
	(sfid-20100115_080007_146938_EAD1268B)
Message-ID: <4B55275F.9000902@softwareprocess.es>

I can volunteer 10 minutes of:

Net::OpenID::Server and the subversion of OpenID

10mins

I'll talk about the structure of OpenID, and give an overview of the
protocol. As well I'll discuss how to use Net::OpenID::Server, how to
make sure it is running quickly. I'll discuss how to use OpenID to have
a non-identity. Then I'll discuss the hoops I had to jump through on
shared hosting to get it all working.

abram

Mike Stok wrote:
> As we don't have any presentation lined up for this month, I'm asking
> for volunteers to spend five or ten minutes to show us some Perl related
> trick(s), tool(s), or module(s) of their choice.  Reasons for picking a
> module could include, but aren't limited to:
> 
>   * It' s something you have found invaluable over the past year(s)
>   * It's the one solid module out of dozens which do the same thing, and
> you're glad you settled on it
>   * It's entertaining
>   * It has code which surprised or amazed you
>   * It changed the way you do Perl projects
>   * It changed the way you think about Perl
>   * It's a commonly used module, but you've discovered a neat trick
>   * etc.
> 
> Think of the session as similar to lightning talks.
> 
> Mike
> 
> -- 
> 
> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca <mailto:mike at stok.ca>>
> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
> 
> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm


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From mike at stok.ca  Mon Jan 25 16:39:21 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:39:21 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Toronto Perl Mongers and the O'Reilly User Group Program
Message-ID: <86114096-EEA6-49BD-B6F8-43CD021F17B6@stok.ca>

I have signed the Toronto Perl Mongers up in the O'Reilly User Group Program, and from time to time I'll forward the User Group newsletter to the list.  In return for that, and a banner on the TPM web site we can get review copies of books, on condition that we post the review, and discounts off books, e-books, and some conferences purchased from O'Reilly.

Interesting bits of the welcome email sent to the group leader (ignoring the exciting administrivia):

> O'Reilly offers free review copies of our books. As the group rep, you may request a copy for review in your newsletter, web site, blog, mail ing list, or for your group library. Requests for review copies must be submitted by you, as the contact for your group. If you wish for the review copy to be shipped to another group member, please supply the name, address, and phone number of that member for shipment. If a review of a book has been written, please forward a copy to me. We are also encouraging user group members to post reviews to sites such as Amazon, Slashdot, and oreilly.com.


> Your group members receive a 35% discount on O'Reilly, Microsoft Press, No Starch, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, Rocky Nook, SitePoint, or YoungJin products purchased directly from O'Reilly. And 45% on ebooks. The discount code your members should use is ********. Orders can be placed online atoreilly.com or by calling 800-998-9938. Your members are also entitled to a discount on O'Reilly conferences and tutorials. Other special discount offers may also be forwarded to your group from time to time.

(email me for the discount code - our mailing list archives are public and the discount is for group members.)

> In addition, we regularly donate books and other promotional items for raffles or auctions to help your group raise money, or for meeting door prizes--just let me know if you're in need of something. (Please allow enough time for ground shipping.)


If anyone wants to get a review copy of a book then get in touch with me and it can be organized quite quickly - and the book doesn't have to be directly related to Perl.

Mike

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es  Mon Jan 25 16:41:03 2010
From: abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es (Abram Hindle)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:41:03 -0500
Subject: [tpm] January talk(s)
In-Reply-To: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>
	(sfid-20100115_080007_146938_EAD1268B)
References: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>
	(sfid-20100115_080007_146938_EAD1268B)
Message-ID: <4B5E3A1F.9040002@softwareprocess.es>

TPM is this week. So do we have enough talks?

abram

Mike Stok wrote:
> As we don't have any presentation lined up for this month, I'm asking
> for volunteers to spend five or ten minutes to show us some Perl related
> trick(s), tool(s), or module(s) of their choice.  Reasons for picking a
> module could include, but aren't limited to:
> 
>   * It' s something you have found invaluable over the past year(s)
>   * It's the one solid module out of dozens which do the same thing, and
> you're glad you settled on it
>   * It's entertaining
>   * It has code which surprised or amazed you
>   * It changed the way you do Perl projects
>   * It changed the way you think about Perl
>   * It's a commonly used module, but you've discovered a neat trick
>   * etc.
> 
> Think of the session as similar to lightning talks.
> 
> Mike
> 
> -- 
> 
> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca <mailto:mike at stok.ca>>
> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
> 
> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm


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From mike at stok.ca  Mon Jan 25 17:03:27 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:03:27 -0500
Subject: [tpm] January talk(s)
In-Reply-To: <4B5E3A1F.9040002@softwareprocess.es>
References: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>
	(sfid-20100115_080007_146938_EAD1268B)
	<4B5E3A1F.9040002@softwareprocess.es>
Message-ID: <321C3EF3-971D-494B-95E1-A627D07A7AC3@stok.ca>


On Jan 25, 2010, at 7:41 PM, Abram Hindle wrote:

> TPM is this week. So do we have enough talks?

As things stand now, there are the three presenters, including Abram, on the web site. I have a couple of people who should be getting back to me. So things are looking pretty good.

I'm going to ask the people in the meeting what sort of things they would like to happen at the meetings for the rest of the year, and based on those answers and some from the mailing list see if we can do stuff which people find useful / informative / entertaining.

This month's meeting will be at Nexient in room 15 on the eighth floor.  See the web site for more details.

Mike

> 
> abram
> 
> Mike Stok wrote:
>> As we don't have any presentation lined up for this month, I'm asking
>> for volunteers to spend five or ten minutes to show us some Perl related
>> trick(s), tool(s), or module(s) of their choice.  Reasons for picking a
>> module could include, but aren't limited to:
>> 
>>  * It' s something you have found invaluable over the past year(s)
>>  * It's the one solid module out of dozens which do the same thing, and
>> you're glad you settled on it
>>  * It's entertaining
>>  * It has code which surprised or amazed you
>>  * It changed the way you do Perl projects
>>  * It changed the way you think about Perl
>>  * It's a commonly used module, but you've discovered a neat trick
>>  * etc.
>> 
>> Think of the session as similar to lightning talks.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca <mailto:mike at stok.ca>>
>> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
>> 
>> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> toronto-pm mailing list
>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.





From talexb at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 07:16:44 2010
From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:16:44 -0500
Subject: [tpm] January talk(s)
In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe1001150544g7cbb9226p31ef127735c7349b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>
	<8204a4fe1001150544g7cbb9226p31ef127735c7349b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f9870c011001260716s5e4b31ber583c2e03c33e533d@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Fulko Hew <fulko.hew at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca> wrote:
>>
>> As we don't have any presentation lined up for this month,
>
> Can someone do a quick talk on the 'SQL injection' problem and how to avoid
> it?

Hi Fulko,

I've spoken with Mike Stok, and I will cover this, as well as the
module that helps with arbitrary SQL inserts and updates.

Tin foil hats should not be required.

-- 
Alex Beamish
Toronto, Ontario
aka talexb

From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 08:00:45 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:00:45 -0500
Subject: [tpm] January talk(s)
In-Reply-To: <f9870c011001260716s5e4b31ber583c2e03c33e533d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca> 
	<8204a4fe1001150544g7cbb9226p31ef127735c7349b@mail.gmail.com> 
	<f9870c011001260716s5e4b31ber583c2e03c33e533d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1001260800m25d1f3a9sf95b181c606043d6@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Alex Beamish <talexb at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Fulko Hew <fulko.hew at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> As we don't have any presentation lined up for this month,
> >
> > Can someone do a quick talk on the 'SQL injection' problem and how to
> avoid
> > it?
>
> Hi Fulko,
>
> I've spoken with Mike Stok, and I will cover this, as well as the
> module that helps with arbitrary SQL inserts and updates.
>

Thanks... then I'll be sure to show up!


> Tin foil hats should not be required.
>

Awe... and I just bought myself a brand new shinny one too!  :-(
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From mike at stok.ca  Tue Jan 26 08:46:28 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:46:28 -0500
Subject: [tpm] January talk(s)
In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe1001260800m25d1f3a9sf95b181c606043d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>
	<8204a4fe1001150544g7cbb9226p31ef127735c7349b@mail.gmail.com>
	<f9870c011001260716s5e4b31ber583c2e03c33e533d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8204a4fe1001260800m25d1f3a9sf95b181c606043d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74987D42-D31F-41C0-B585-66301A6F1229@stok.ca>


On Jan 26, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Fulko Hew wrote:

> Awe... and I just bought myself a brand new shinny one too!  :-(

Just wait till you see the new iHat Apple are releasing tomorrow, clear anodized aluminium with a multi-touch interface to control those thoughts...

Mike

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From dave.s.doyle at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 09:02:09 2010
From: dave.s.doyle at gmail.com (Dave Doyle)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:02:09 -0500
Subject: [tpm] January talk(s)
In-Reply-To: <74987D42-D31F-41C0-B585-66301A6F1229@stok.ca>
References: <A85FF686-95F1-4311-94EE-C1B287271D8E@stok.ca>
	<8204a4fe1001150544g7cbb9226p31ef127735c7349b@mail.gmail.com>
	<f9870c011001260716s5e4b31ber583c2e03c33e533d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8204a4fe1001260800m25d1f3a9sf95b181c606043d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<74987D42-D31F-41C0-B585-66301A6F1229@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <ccef7f7b1001260902p7067722k203bc1f07b5bb862@mail.gmail.com>

Apple doesn't need a hat to control peoples thoughts.  They're doing that
already with Steve Jobs' turtleneck.

--
dave.s.doyle at gmail.com


On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca> wrote:

>
> On Jan 26, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Fulko Hew wrote:
>
> Awe... and I just bought myself a brand new shinny one too!  :-(
>
>
> Just wait till you see the new iHat Apple are releasing tomorrow, clear
> anodized aluminium with a multi-touch interface to control those thoughts...
>
> Mike
>
> --
>
> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ <http://www.stok.ca/%7Emike/>
>
> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>
>
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From mike at stok.ca  Tue Jan 26 12:18:59 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:18:59 -0500
Subject: [tpm] January talk(s)
In-Reply-To: <535358.54616.qm@web57606.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <535358.54616.qm@web57606.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AD021A4B-4F58-4311-B0B3-531FC3878669@stok.ca>


On Jan 26, 2010, at 1:36 PM, J Z Tam wrote:

> Hello Mike,  
>  New to TPM here.  What is the address for tommorow's TPM clustering?

Welcome aboard Jordan.

Here are the meeting details, I update http://to.pm.org before the meetings in case the time or location have to be adjusted. Usually we head out for refreshments after the talks.

I hope to see you soon.

Regards,

Mike

Location: 2 Bloor Street West, (usually) 8th or 16th floor. The room number will be announced on the mailing list a few days before the meeting. It will also be left with the security desk in the building (main floor lobby) shortly before the meeting starts (i.e. around 6pm).

Time: 6:45 p.m.

Directions: This building is on the north-west corner of Bloor and Yonge, accessible by subway from Bloor station. Pay parking is also ample in this area.

Security note: The elevators in the building are "locked down" after 5:30pm to people without building access cards. Leading up to the meeting someone will come down to the main floor lobby every few minutes to ferry people upstairs. There will be a number of scheduled trips:

	? 17:30
	? 18:00
	? 18:30
	? 18:45
	? 19:00

After 19:00, you can reach the access-card-carrying guy via a cell phone number that we'll leave with security in the front lobby. The room and floor numbers will be left with security too.

> Thanks in advance.
> jordan.tam
> 
> --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca> wrote:
> 
>> From: Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
>> Subject: Re: [tpm] January talk(s)
>> To: "TPM Mongers" <tpm at to.pm.org>
>> Cc: "Abram Hindle" <abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es>
>> Received: Monday, January 25, 2010, 8:03 PM
>> 
>> On Jan 25, 2010, at 7:41 PM, Abram Hindle wrote:
>> 
>>> TPM is this week. So do we have enough talks?
>> 
>> As things stand now, there are the three presenters,
>> including Abram, on the web site. I have a couple of people
>> who should be getting back to me. So things are looking
>> pretty good.
>> 
>> I'm going to ask the people in the meeting what sort of
>> things they would like to happen at the meetings for the
>> rest of the year, and based on those answers and some from
>> the mailing list see if we can do stuff which people find
>> useful / informative / entertaining.
>> 
>> This month's meeting will be at Nexient in room 15 on the
>> eighth floor.  See the web site for more details.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>>> 
>>> abram
>>> 
>>> Mike Stok wrote:
>>>> As we don't have any presentation lined up for
>> this month, I'm asking
>>>> for volunteers to spend five or ten minutes to
>> show us some Perl related
>>>> trick(s), tool(s), or module(s) of their
>> choice.  Reasons for picking a
>>>> module could include, but aren't limited to:
>>>> 
>>>>   * It' s something you have found invaluable
>> over the past year(s)
>>>>   * It's the one solid module out of dozens
>> which do the same thing, and
>>>> you're glad you settled on it
>>>>   * It's entertaining
>>>>   * It has code which surprised or amazed you
>>>>   * It changed the way you do Perl projects
>>>>   * It changed the way you think about Perl
>>>>   * It's a commonly used module, but you've
>> discovered a neat trick
>>>>   * etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Think of the session as similar to lightning
>> talks.
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> 
>>>> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca
>> <mailto:mike at stok.ca>>
>>>> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
>>>> 
>>>> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> toronto-pm mailing list
>>>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> toronto-pm mailing list
>>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
>> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
>> 
>> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> toronto-pm mailing list
>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>> 
> 
> 
>      __________________________________________________________________
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.





From mike at stok.ca  Tue Jan 26 12:37:42 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:37:42 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Fwd: Books and News from the O'Reilly User Group
	Program--January
References: <1264521733.440.0.349312@post.oreilly.com>
Message-ID: <B709D025-6BE8-40C0-9C6D-440871768DC3@stok.ca>

As part of the O'Reilly User Group Program I will forward the monthly user group news letter to the list.

Mike

Begin forwarded message:

> 
> If you cannot read the information below, click here.
> 
> Forward this annoucement to a friend
> 
> 
> Jan 2010 Issue:
> 
> Welcome
> Register Now -- Free Upcoming Webcasts
> Authors looking for Speaking Opportunites
> Conference User Group Discounts and Call for Participation
> 35-45% book discount and Slashdot and Book Reviews needed
> The Call for Makers is Now Open for the 5th Annual Maker Faire Bay Area 2010
> Discount offers from Safari Books Online & The O'Reilly School of Technolgy
> UG leaders only -- Put Up a Banner, Get a Free Book
> Upcoming Events
> New Releases:
> 
> Building iPhone Apps with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript
> By Jonathan Stark
> 
> Building the Realtime User Experience: Rough Cuts Version
> 
> CSS Cookbook, Third Edition
> By Christopher Schmitt
> 
> Domain-Driven Design Using Naked Objects
> By Dan Haywood
> 
> HTML & XHTML Pocket Reference, Fourth Edition
> By Jennifer Niederst Robbins
> 
> Java: The Good Parts: Rough Cuts Version
> 
> jQuery: Novice to Ninja
> By Earl Castledine
> 
> Language Implementation Patterns
> By Terence Parr
> 
> Make: Technology on Your Time Volume 21
> By Mark Frauenfelder
> 
> Mastering the Nikon D5000
> By Darrell Young
> 
> Microsoft(R) Forefront(TM) Threat Management Gateway (TMG) Administrator
> 
> The New How
> By Nilofer Merchant
> 
> Open Government
> By Daniel Lathrop, Laurel Ruma
> 
> Practical Digital Photomicrography
> By Brian Matsumoto
> 
> Programming Entity Framework Rough Cut, Second Edition
> 
> Programming WCF Services: Rough Cuts Version, Third Edition
> 
> R in a Nutshell
> By Joseph Adler
> 
> Security on Rails
> By Ben Poweski, David Raphael
> 
> Take Control of Easy Mac Backups
> 
> Take Control of Running Windows on a Mac
> 
> Three Songs, No Flash!
> By Loe Beerens
> 
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> 
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> More Answers >
> 
> Welcome
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> Even though it is storming in Sebastopol, CA this week--it's easy to see spring is coming. Community events and conferences are coming up everywhere such as Macworld, Microsoft Mix, PYCon, SCALE, RailsConf, MySQL Conference & Expo, DevConnections, FOSDEM, MountainWest RubyConf, and much more. If you're involved in a community event please make sure we send some books to give away. We can provide print or ebook versions.
> 
> Don't forget we now offer 45% off our ebooks onoreilly.com. That includes Microsoft Press as well as O'Reilly Media titles. Just use the code DSUG when you check out. This same code give you 35% off print books too. Feel free to post this discount on your website, mailing list, twitter account, or other places where your members gather. We've also got a spiffy new PowerPoint or KeyNote slide with this information I can send you.
> 
> I recently posted a question on O'Reilly Answers to ask for suggestions on reaching out to new members. Make sure you add your opinion and let me know when you post so I can give you a user group leader badge for your profile.
> 
> We're looking for a few user groups interested in having a booth at Railsconf this year in Baltimore, MD. If you're interested, please drop me a line. We've got a limited number of tables.
> 
> If you're thinking about learning a new technology, you should check out the new Great Series of videos from O'Reilly. They have friendly presentation style and the hands-on exercises let you learn as if you're sitting next to a good friend, sharing programmer to programmer. Let me know if you'd like to check it out.
> 
> Travel Alert: I'll be attending Macworld 2010February 10 & 11. Please let me know if you're going to be in town. I'd like to say hi.
> 
> I'm also headed to the O'Reilly Tools of Change for Publishing Conference in New York February 21 -24 and I'm looking for evening activities. Do you have a meeting or just want to get together?
> 
> Please pass along any part of this newsletter to your group via email or your website and include the discount codes. We offer both a text and an HTML version.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --Marsee Henon
> 
> P.S. Hope you've noticed our new $9.99 Ebook Deal of the Day on oreilly.com and our twitter account attwitter.com/oreillymedia.
> 
> 
> Register Now -- Free Upcoming Webcasts
> 
> What people are saying about our webcasts: "Content superb of course. But I also loved its "personality" - friendly, casual, expert, geeky: perfect!"-- Heather Young
> 
> Our upcoming webcasts include:
> 
> Tour the Top 10 Treats in Entity Framework 4
> The Science of Social Media Marketing
> Check out our Webcast page for on-demand videos of past webcasts and more upcoming live events!
> 
> 
> Authors looking for Speaking Opportunites
> 
> Please send me an email if you're interested in any of the following speakers and I'll forward it along:
> 
> 
> Joseph Adler, author of R in a Nutshell is available in Southern California or the San Francisco Bay Area.
> 
> 
> Ed Wilson, author of Windows PowerShell 2.0 Best Practices and Microsoft Scripting Guy is available as a speaker in the Charlotte, NC region. He is also available virtually for any user group world-wide. For more information contact Ed directly at edwils (at) microsoft.com
> 
> 
> Joan Preppernau, author of Windows 7 Step by Step is looking for speaking opportunities in the Dallas/Fort Worth area (FlowerMound) of Texas and in the Northport, Alabama area. Topics include Microsoft Office, Windows, certification, upgrading, and computing for children and young people, particularly girls.
> 
> 
> Conference User Group Discounts and Call for Participation
> 
> O'Reilly Tools of Change for Publishing Conference
> Be Part of the Publishing Evolution
> February 22-24, 2010
> New York, NY
> 
> If you're interesting in attending, use code "toc10usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the registration price.
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> Location Enabled
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> O'Reilly MySQL Conference & Expo
> Information Unleashed
> April 12-15, 2010
> Santa Clara, CA
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> 
> Last Chance--The Call for Participation is Now Open for OSCON! Share how you're innovating with the Open Source Community. OSCON takes place July 19-23, 2010 at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland. Join over 2,500 experts, visionaries, and hackers in the trenches to explore all that open source has to offer. Be a part of it all and Submit your Proposal today! CFP ends February 1 and early registration opens April 2010.
> 
> RailsConf 2010 Call for Participation is now open!
> Join us in Baltimore, MD on June 7-10, 2010 for largest official conference dedicated to everything Rails. We're keeping the Call for Participation open until March 17 to leave room for even more up-to-the minute Rails topics to come through. Bring us your hardcore technical know-how and submit your proposal today.
> 
> 
> 35-45% book discount and Slashdot and Book Reviews needed
> 
> We're always looking for book reviewers, especially on our new releases. Titles we're excited about include Building iPhone Apps with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, The New How, Windows PowerShell 2.0 Best Practices, and R in a Nutshell. If you'd like to write a review of any of these books for Amazon, Slashdot, your favorite book community site such as GoodReads, LibraryThing or Shelfari, or your blog, please send an email to your user group leader with the book title and where you'll review it.
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> Get 35% off from O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, Rocky Nook, SitePoint, or YoungJin books and 45% off ebooksyou purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938.
> 
> 
> The Call for Makers is Now Open for the 5th Annual Maker Faire Bay Area 2010
> 
> Maker Faire is a two-day, family-friendly event that celebrates the Do-It-Yourself (DIY) mindset. It's for creative, resourceful people of all ages and backgrounds who like to tinker and love to make things. So much to see, you will need 2 days to see it all!
> 
> We are now accepting entries for Maker Faire Bay Area, May 22nd and 23rd, 2010 at the San Mateo County Event Center. This year's focus is on Young Makers. Join your fellow Makers for the most innovative, inspired and best Maker Faire yet!
> 
> 
> Discount offers from Safari Books Online & The O'Reilly School of Technolgy
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> 
> OST's full-price tuitions are already lower than comparable continuing education or community college courses. However, as an O'Reilly User Group member, you save an additional 30% on all the courses in the following University of Illinois Certificate Series:
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> To redeem, use Promotion Code "ORALL1" good for a 30% discount, in Step #2 of the enrollment process. Each course comes with a free O'Reilly book and a 7-day money-back guarantee.
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> 
> UG leaders only -- Put Up a Banner, Get a Free Book
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> We're looking for user groups to display our discount banners on their web sites. If you send me your group's site with one or more banners posted, I'll send you the O'Reilly book(s) of your choice. Choose from the following list:
> 
> The New How
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> Upcoming Events
> 
> 
> Tour the Top 10 Treats in Entity Framework 4
> When: Jan 27, 2010
> Visual Studio 2010 and .NET 4.0 bring us a new version of ADO.NET Entity Framework, called Entity Framework 4. From the designer, to the APIs to entire new feature sets to support agile development, even former EF skeptics are getting excited about this version. There is a lot to see. In this one hour webcast, Julie Lerman, who is currently working on the 2nd edition of Programming Entity Framework, will highlight the ten most significant changes to the Entity Framework.
> 
> 
> The Science of Social Media Marketing
> When: Jan 28, 2010
> More and more people are using social media sites like Twitter and Facebook to talk about companies and products with their friends and colleagues. Learn what drives people to share information and opinions online and learn scientifically proven best practices for spreading your content virally through social media. You'll have plenty of time for Q&A with Dan Zarrella, social media and viral marketing scientist and author of "The Social Media Marketing Book."
> 
> 
> Dux Raymond Sy presents "How to Effectively Utilize MS Project 2010 with SharePoint 2010" at SharePoint Saturday NYC
> When: Jan 30, 2010
> Where: Microsoft Office NYC New York
> Dux Raymond Sy (SharePoint for Project Management) will show you how Microsoft Project 2010 can be utilized for project planning and tracking. In addition, you'll also see ShaePoint 2010 complements it by enabling collaborative capabilities.
> 
> More Upcoming Events >>
> 
> 
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> You are receiving this email because you are a User Group contact with O'Reilly Media. If you would like to stop receiving this newsletter please email marsee at oreilly.com with your request. 
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> 
> Forward this announcement:http://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1zcmvc3meed2o6o3v5rqnn32o4nifumbq9jgghas8
> 
> 
> 

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From mmackay at tes.net  Thu Jan 21 10:55:27 2010
From: mmackay at tes.net (Matthew MacKay)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:55:27 -0500
Subject: [tpm] TES - The Employment Solution. Job Opportunity with IBM
	Canada!
Message-ID: <918911A750DA3846A6103216137B88C37E19E5@tesex>

Hello,

 

I spoke with Alex MacKinnon in regards to a job opportunity that I
currently have for someone with strong PERL scripting skills. He
recommended that I take a look on the "Toronto PERL Mongers" website and
see what I can find...

 

This is a short 4 week contract opportunity with IBM Canada and we are
looking to get started as soon as possible. Nice to have skills include
shell scripting skills, experience with EBCEDIC files and knowledge of
Autosys would be an advantage. 

IBM is looking to pay between $40 - $43/ hr for qualified candidates.

 

Please, if any of your respective members are currently looking for work
and you think they may be a good fit, you have my permission to forward
them my contact information.

We also get new PERL focused roles all the time, so anyone in the
Toronto PERL Mongers currently looking to start work or switch jobs
please tell them to contact me as soon as possible.

 

Thanks for your help Webmaster!

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

Matt Mackay

Placement Consultant, Information Technology

The Employment Solution

Tel:       (416) 482 - 2420 ext- 223

Fax:      (416) 482 - 8076

Toll Free: 1 (800) 818 4893 ext- 223

Email: mmackay at tes.net  

Web: www.tes.com <http://www.tes.com/>  

 

This e-mail transmission may contain confidential or legally privileged
information that is intended only for the individual or entity named in
the e-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance
upon the contents of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this e-mail transmission in error, please reply to the sender,
so that we may resend it to the proper destination and then please
delete the message from your in-box. The sender does not accept
liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or viruses in the
contents of this message, or in any attachments.

 

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From legrady at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 20:00:42 2010
From: legrady at gmail.com (Tom Legrady)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:00:42 -0500
Subject: [tpm] residential advice
Message-ID: <3c9af5831001262000p2ecab71ew4b1dc359f9fe53ae@mail.gmail.com>

I've just bought a house, so I'm looking for advice, some of it geeky.

I'm going to need insurance, so if you're delighted with your agent and the
rates you have, send me an email.

I've stuck with CIA as my ISP just cause I like the name ( I went to them
cause I hate Rogers ). What's your favourite ISP and telephone provider?


See you all Thursday, if the housing gremlins don't get me.

Tom
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From mike at stok.ca  Wed Jan 27 07:59:55 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:59:55 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Meeting reminder - Thu 28 Jan 2010, 6:45pm, Nexient
Message-ID: <0ABD3FA5-02E8-4B5A-A13F-3CA324EE1DDF@stok.ca>

Date: Thu 28 Jan 2010 18:45 EST
Title: Modules and Tips
Venue: Nexient Learning; Room 15 on the 8th floor
Description: 
A series of quick talks covering various modules which people have found useful or instructive. Some are old standbys, some are new.

More details at http://to.pm.org

Boilerplate from the web site:
Location: 2 Bloor Street West, (usually) 8th or 16th floor. The room number will be announced on the mailing list a few days before the meeting. It will also be left with the security desk in the building (main floor lobby) shortly before the meeting starts (i.e. around 6pm).

Time: 6:45 p.m.

Directions: This building is on the north-west corner of Bloor and Yonge, accessible by subway from Bloor station. Pay parking is also ample in this area.

Security note: The elevators in the building are "locked down" after 5:30pm to people without building access cards. Leading up to the meeting someone will come down to the main floor lobby every few minutes to ferry people upstairs. There will be a number of scheduled trips:

17:30
18:00
18:30
18:45
19:00
After 19:00, you can reach the access-card-carrying guy via a cell phone number that we'll leave with security in the front lobby. The room and floor numbers will be left with security too.

If any latecomers call up there will be a final group elevator run at 19:10. After that, access will be ad-hoc; call up from security and somebody will try to come down and let you up. 

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From rburko at eliteanswers.com  Wed Jan 27 14:16:10 2010
From: rburko at eliteanswers.com (Robert Burko)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:16:10 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl Job Opening in Toronto
Message-ID: <00a201ca9f9e$5510e460$ff32ad20$@com>

Hello Everyone at Toronto Perl Mongers,

 

I am writing you this email because our CTO, Jeff Horn, (who is a members of
the Madison Area Perl <http://www.madmongers.org/>  Mongers in the US)
suggested that I reach out to you with regards to a job opening we have for
a Perl Programmer here in our Toronto office.

 

I'm not sure if this is something you encourage so your members can benefit
or if this is a violation of your policies. If this is against your
policies, then please accept my sincere apologies as that was not my
intention.

 

In case you can forward this job announcement to your members, I have
included all the information below.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Robert Burko
President, Eliteweb Inc.
rburko at eliteanswers.com 
Toll-Free: 1-877-789-ELITE (3548)
Fax: 1-877-FAX-ELITE
Elite Email Marketing: www.EliteEmail.com <http://www.eliteemail.com/> 
www.EliteAnswers.com <http://www.eliteanswers.com/> 

 

 

 

Perl Programmer 

 

Elite Answers is seeking a bright and motivated Perl programmer. Join the
talented team at one of Canada's Top 25 Up & Coming IT Companies* where you
will get to develop cutting-edge software, make decisions, manage projects,
and have a big impact with your valued contributions right from the get go. 

 

We are looking for some who can think big, dream big, and execute with
confidence. Our culture is fun and laid back, but our expectations are high.
In return for your hard work and drive to succeed, we offer competitive pay,
comprehensive flex benefits, and many accelerated growth opportunities. 

 

If you meet the requirements below and think you have what it takes to be
Elite, send your resume and cover letter to jobs at eliteanswers.com.  

 

REQUIRED SKILLS

=================

- Object Oriented Perl

- Familiarity with CPAN

- MySQL (query formulation mostly)

- Javascript

- HTML

- Hard working

 

BONUS SKILLS

=============

- ORMs like Rose::DB, Class::DBI, etc.

- MVC Frameworks (like Mojo, Catalyst, CGI::Application)

- jQuery

- HTML/CSS

- Design / Photoshop

 

 

About Elite Answers Inc. 

 

Elite Answers is a leading provider of software as a service (SaaS) business
solutions. Our flagship program, Elite Email, has won several awards and was
recently ranked #19 in Website Magazine's list of Top 50 Email Marketing
Programs across the globe. Our client list includes ReMax, Sauza Tequila,
Botox, SunTV, and many others. Elite Answers is headquartered in Toronto,
Canada. 

 

Elite Answers is an equal opportunity employer.

 

 

* Source: Branham Group Inc - Canada's Top 300 Tech Companies, 2007

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From rdice at pobox.com  Thu Jan 28 06:40:23 2010
From: rdice at pobox.com (Richard Dice)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:40:23 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl Job Opening in Toronto
In-Reply-To: <00a201ca9f9e$5510e460$ff32ad20$@com>
References: <00a201ca9f9e$5510e460$ff32ad20$@com>
Message-ID: <5bef4baf1001280640x7a09062fo6f402b365b7bf1dd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Robert,

I?m not sure if this is something you encourage so your members can benefit
> or if this is a violation of your policies. If this is against your
> policies, then please accept my sincere apologies as that was not my
> intention.
>
>
Our cultural norm regarding job postings on the Toronto.pm mailing list is
that they're okay so long as the company / individual posting is up front
about the job and about the company.  I think your posting fits that
description well.  Something that would improve your posting would be some
mention of the compensation that you're interested in providing.

Cheers,
 - Richard
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From linux at alteeve.com  Fri Jan 29 12:55:20 2010
From: linux at alteeve.com (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:55:20 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
Message-ID: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>

What is the difference between:

if (not $foo && $bar ne "") {}
if ((not $foo) && ($bar ne "")) {}

I assumed it was mainly an aesthetic/readability thing, but I realize 
that no, it's logically different. Thanks for enlightening me?

Madi

From alexcapsa at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 13:00:31 2010
From: alexcapsa at gmail.com (Alexandru Capsa)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:00:31 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <b1610db31001291300vfc081bcs1c3bbab667a96ae8@mail.gmail.com>

A quick look at operator precedence can help

http://www.perl.com/doc/manual/html/pod/perlop.html

the brackets help you override that precedence so they can change the logic.

Alex


On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Madison Kelly <linux at alteeve.com> wrote:

> What is the difference between:
>
> if (not $foo && $bar ne "") {}
> if ((not $foo) && ($bar ne "")) {}
>
> I assumed it was mainly an aesthetic/readability thing, but I realize that
> no, it's logically different. Thanks for enlightening me?
>
> Madi
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>



-- 
Alexandru Capsa
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From dave.s.doyle at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 13:02:05 2010
From: dave.s.doyle at gmail.com (Dave Doyle)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:02:05 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <ccef7f7b1001291302v5be9e1e2td93e7de55a298beb@mail.gmail.com>

the "not" operator is a more loosely binding version of !

because && is stronger the first statement would evaluate as

not ($foo && ($bar ne "") )

If you use ! instead of not both statements would be equivalent.

--
dave.s.doyle at gmail.com


On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Madison Kelly <linux at alteeve.com> wrote:

> What is the difference between:
>
> if (not $foo && $bar ne "") {}
> if ((not $foo) && ($bar ne "")) {}
>
> I assumed it was mainly an aesthetic/readability thing, but I realize that
> no, it's logically different. Thanks for enlightening me?
>
> Madi
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>
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From mike at stok.ca  Fri Jan 29 13:03:09 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:03:09 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4C99048B-27FA-468B-96F9-E3E0E50E09D5@stok.ca>


On Jan 29, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Madison Kelly wrote:

> What is the difference between:
> 
> if (not $foo && $bar ne "") {}
> if ((not $foo) && ($bar ne "")) {}
> 
> I assumed it was mainly an aesthetic/readability thing, but I realize that no, it's logically different. Thanks for enlightening me?

It's a precedence thing, here's how to get perl to show you what it's doing:

ratdog:~ mike$ perl -MO=Deparse,-p -e 'if (not $foo && $bar ne "") {}'
if ((not ($foo && ($bar ne '')))) {
    ();
}
-e syntax OK
ratdog:~ mike$ perl -MO=Deparse,-p -e 'if ((not $foo) && ($bar ne "")) {}'
if (((not $foo) and ($bar ne ''))) {
    ();
}
-e syntax OK

The  "symbol" logical operators have a higher precedence than the "word" operators, so mixing them can be an exercise in memory and/or parenthesization.  See perldoc perlop.

Hope this helps,

Mike

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.





From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 13:05:33 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:05:33 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1001291305s5f806975t99684e7c837710d4@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Madison Kelly <linux at alteeve.com> wrote:

> What is the difference between:
>
> if (not $foo && $bar ne "") {}
> if ((not $foo) && ($bar ne "")) {}
>
> I assumed it was mainly an aesthetic/readability thing, but I realize that
> no, it's logically different. Thanks for enlightening me?
>

Read the perlop document on operator precedence.  I see that:

ne binds first
&& binds second
and not has the lowest precedence

I think you expected it to be 'just as high' as the 'ne'
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From yam at nerd.cx  Fri Jan 29 13:12:40 2010
From: yam at nerd.cx (William Witteman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:12:40 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20100129211240.GA9379@yam.witteman.ca>

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 03:55:20PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote:
>What is the difference between:
>
>if (not $foo && $bar ne "") {}
>if ((not $foo) && ($bar ne "")) {}
>
>I assumed it was mainly an aesthetic/readability thing, but I realize
>that no, it's logically different. Thanks for enlightening me?

I think that it has to do with operator precedence - though I could not
concisely tell you the mechanism of the difference in your example.  I
look here:

http://www.perl.com/doc/manual/html/pod/perlop.html

and find that the textual boolean operators are well down the list, so
it would likely evaluate the && first, then the other two left to right
in the first example, whereas in the second the not and the ne would be
evaluated first.  That's just a guess though.
-- 

yours,

William 


From stuart at morungos.com  Fri Jan 29 13:38:14 2010
From: stuart at morungos.com (Stuart Watt)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:38:14 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Continuous integration
In-Reply-To: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4B635546.3010604@morungos.com>

Good to meet you folks last night!

Anyway, a simple question: do any of you use a continuous integration 
system with Perl? I've used (and am using) Buildbot but I was wondering 
if there is one that is any better for Perly stuff. Getting nicely 
formatted test results out via Buildbot's Python code has been a little 
cumbersome, and I'd really like it to be neater.

Or should I just build one?

All the best
Stuart


From linux at alteeve.com  Fri Jan 29 13:46:36 2010
From: linux at alteeve.com (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:46:36 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <ccef7f7b1001291302v5be9e1e2td93e7de55a298beb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
	<ccef7f7b1001291302v5be9e1e2td93e7de55a298beb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B63573C.4010804@alteeve.com>

Dave Doyle wrote:
> the "not" operator is a more loosely binding version of !
> 
> because && is stronger the first statement would evaluate as
> 
> not ($foo && ($bar ne "") )
> 
> If you use ! instead of not both statements would be equivalent.

Ah, ya, I thought "!" and "not" where equiv. I switched all of my "!" to 
the word "not" to make the code more readable. Oh well, now I know.

Thanks to all for the answers!

Madi

From mike at stok.ca  Fri Jan 29 13:46:26 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:46:26 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Continuous integration
In-Reply-To: <4B635546.3010604@morungos.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com> <4B635546.3010604@morungos.com>
Message-ID: <F7D2A56B-9C8E-4D81-9573-A5302BDE6303@stok.ca>


On Jan 29, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Stuart Watt wrote:

> Good to meet you folks last night!
> 
> Anyway, a simple question: do any of you use a continuous integration system with Perl? I've used (and am using) Buildbot but I was wondering if there is one that is any better for Perly stuff. Getting nicely formatted test results out via Buildbot's Python code has been a little cumbersome, and I'd really like it to be neater.
> 
> Or should I just build one?
> 
> All the best
> Stuart

Ilia did a presentation on Hudson as a CI server about a year ago:

> Thursday, Feb 26 2009
> 
> Location: Classroom 11 on the 8th floor 
> Speaker: Ilia Lobsanov 
> Continuous Integration (CI) for Perl Projects. 
> Description:
> We will look at the Test Anything Protocol (TAP). We will convert TAP output to JUnit format. Once in JUnit we can use a number of JVM based CI servers, like Hudson. The end goal is to see Rakudo Perl6 test suite on the Hudson web UI.

Some groups use it at work and it is a lot nicer than cruise control.

I haven't used it.

Mike

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.





From rdice at pobox.com  Fri Jan 29 14:05:30 2010
From: rdice at pobox.com (Richard Dice)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:05:30 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Continuous integration
In-Reply-To: <4B635546.3010604@morungos.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com> <4B635546.3010604@morungos.com>
Message-ID: <5bef4baf1001291405s491645e4w2515991f5e96aaad@mail.gmail.com>

> Anyway, a simple question: do any of you use a continuous integration
> system with Perl? I've used (and am using) Buildbot but I was wondering if
> there is one that is any better for Perly stuff. Getting nicely formatted
> test results out via Buildbot's Python code has been a little cumbersome,
> and I'd really like it to be neater.
>
> Or should I just build one?
>
>
Check out Michael Peter's Smolder, a Perl CI system:
http://search.cpan.org/dist/Smolder/

Sorry I missed the meeting last night!

Cheers,
 - Richard
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From sfryer at sourcery.ca  Fri Jan 29 16:40:00 2010
From: sfryer at sourcery.ca (Shaun Fryer)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:40:00 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <4B63573C.4010804@alteeve.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
	<ccef7f7b1001291302v5be9e1e2td93e7de55a298beb@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B63573C.4010804@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <982579711001291640y340ee86ence43d282bb38fc0f@mail.gmail.com>

I often find myself doing things like this...

my $bar = $foo if $foo;

...and I wish there were an assignment operator conditional on right-hand
truthiness. maybe...

my $bar ?= $foo; # as opposed to $bar ||= $foo;

Thoughts? Have I overlooked an existing operator? Is this just a bad idea?
--
Shaun Fryer
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From adam.prime at utoronto.ca  Fri Jan 29 17:26:20 2010
From: adam.prime at utoronto.ca (Adam Prime)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:26:20 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <982579711001291640y340ee86ence43d282bb38fc0f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>	<ccef7f7b1001291302v5be9e1e2td93e7de55a298beb@mail.gmail.com>	<4B63573C.4010804@alteeve.com>
	<982579711001291640y340ee86ence43d282bb38fc0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B638ABC.8020202@utoronto.ca>

5.10 has defined or which isn't quite the same thing but you could 
achieve something like it with

my $bar = $foo // undef;

Adam

Shaun Fryer wrote:
> I often find myself doing things like this...
> 
> my $bar = $foo if $foo;
> 
> ...and I wish there were an assignment operator conditional on 
> right-hand truthiness. maybe...
> 
> my $bar ?= $foo; # as opposed to $bar ||= $foo;
> 
> Thoughts? Have I overlooked an existing operator? Is this just a bad idea?
> --
> Shaun Fryer
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm


From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 17:38:31 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:38:31 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <982579711001291640y340ee86ence43d282bb38fc0f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
	<ccef7f7b1001291302v5be9e1e2td93e7de55a298beb@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B63573C.4010804@alteeve.com>
	<982579711001291640y340ee86ence43d282bb38fc0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1001291738m49637ee4x5fa4b77ee4d1df91@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Shaun Fryer <sfryer at sourcery.ca> wrote:

> I often find myself doing things like this...
>
> my $bar = $foo if $foo;
>
> ...and I wish there were an assignment operator conditional on right-hand
> truthiness. maybe...
>
> my $bar ?= $foo; # as opposed to $bar ||= $foo;
>
> Thoughts? Have I overlooked an existing operator? Is this just a bad idea


I would have thought

$bar = $foo unless $bar;     ...might be more intuitive.?

... in retrospect. I guess it depends if yout think the glass is half full,
or half empty?

but I don't think you want to put the my in front because ISTR that
the variable would only poof into existence if the condition evaluated true.
so it would still be longer.

I suppose the alternative is

my $bar = $bar || $foo;

(now you could safely put the 'my' on) but thats still a little redundant
:-(

I don't think the 'if right-handed truthiness' operator exists
.. in a short hand form worth using :-|
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From sfryer at sourcery.ca  Fri Jan 29 18:12:26 2010
From: sfryer at sourcery.ca (Shaun Fryer)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:12:26 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe1001291738m49637ee4x5fa4b77ee4d1df91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
	<ccef7f7b1001291302v5be9e1e2td93e7de55a298beb@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B63573C.4010804@alteeve.com>
	<982579711001291640y340ee86ence43d282bb38fc0f@mail.gmail.com>
	<8204a4fe1001291738m49637ee4x5fa4b77ee4d1df91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <982579711001291812ge9eb1e2tf50479bc0be6de02@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Fulko Hew <fulko.hew at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would have thought
>
> $bar = $foo unless $bar;     ...might be more intuitive.?
>
> ... in retrospect. I guess it depends if yout think the glass is half full,
> or half empty?
>

The most common example would be creating a hash which I'm populating with
values, and don't want a given key to exist() if the right hand side is
undef.

my %foo;
$foo{bar} = $baz if $baz;

In this case...

$foo{bar} = $baz // undef;

...while interesting, isn't appropriate.

Another (related) example might be a dual use setter/getter, for the moment
disregarding the ": lvalue" attribute.

sub foo {
    my ($self, $value) = @_;
    $self->{foo} = $value if $value;
  return $self->{foo};
}

Now you could this...

$obj->foo('bar'); # set foo
$bar = $obj->foo; # get foo

Anyway, these are just simple examples off the top of my head. It can easily
be more complex. I've found myself thinking this periodically, so I figured
worth asking. Maybe someone has a good reason why it's a dumb idea to worry
about in the first place?


> but I don't think you want to put the my in front because ISTR that
> the variable would only poof into existence if the condition evaluated
> true.
> so it would still be longer.
>

You're absolute right about that. Noticed it right after I clicked send, but
didn't want to create more noise by correcting myself.


> I don't think the 'if right-handed truthiness' operator exists
> .. in a short hand form worth using :-|
>

I wasn't sure, but then that only means it's time to avail myself of those
more in the know. ;) Would be a cool/useful feature though, in my opinion.

--
Shaun Fryer
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From uri at StemSystems.com  Fri Jan 29 18:56:51 2010
From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:56:51 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <4B638ABC.8020202@utoronto.ca>
	(Adam Prime's message of "Fri\, 29 Jan 2010 20\:26\:20 -0500")
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
	<ccef7f7b1001291302v5be9e1e2td93e7de55a298beb@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B63573C.4010804@alteeve.com>
	<982579711001291640y340ee86ence43d282bb38fc0f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B638ABC.8020202@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <87r5p8b8r0.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "AP" == Adam Prime <adam.prime at utoronto.ca> writes:

please learn to bottom quote. now i can't comment on your code in
respect to the OP since it reads upside down.

  AP> 5.10 has defined or which isn't quite the same thing but you could
  AP> achieve something like it with

  AP> my $bar = $foo // undef;

the OP's code will not assign to $bar unless $foo is true. your code
always assigns something to $bar.

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri at stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------

From uri at StemSystems.com  Fri Jan 29 18:59:20 2010
From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:59:20 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe1001291738m49637ee4x5fa4b77ee4d1df91@mail.gmail.com>
	(Fulko Hew's message of "Fri\, 29 Jan 2010 20\:38\:31 -0500")
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
	<ccef7f7b1001291302v5be9e1e2td93e7de55a298beb@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B63573C.4010804@alteeve.com>
	<982579711001291640y340ee86ence43d282bb38fc0f@mail.gmail.com>
	<8204a4fe1001291738m49637ee4x5fa4b77ee4d1df91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87mxzwb8mv.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "FH" == Fulko Hew <fulko.hew at gmail.com> writes:

  FH> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Shaun Fryer <sfryer at sourcery.ca> wrote:

  FH>     I often find myself doing things like this...
   
  FH>     my $bar = $foo if $foo;
   
  FH>     ...and I wish there were an assignment operator conditional on right-hand
  FH>     truthiness. maybe...
   
  FH>     my $bar ?= $foo; # as opposed to $bar ||= $foo;
   
  FH>     Thoughts? Have I overlooked an existing operator? Is this just a bad idea

  FH> I would have thought

  FH> $bar = $foo unless $bar;???? ...might be more intuitive.?

your code has the same bug at the other replier. you are not testing
$foo but $bar for truth. he want to set $bar only if $foo is true.

  FH> my $bar = $bar || $foo;

you should make that $bar =  $foo || $bar;

but that won't allow a my declare of $bar since $bar is referenced.

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri at stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------

From uri at StemSystems.com  Fri Jan 29 20:53:03 2010
From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:53:03 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <982579711001291812ge9eb1e2tf50479bc0be6de02@mail.gmail.com>
	(Shaun Fryer's message of "Fri\, 29 Jan 2010 21\:12\:26 -0500")
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
	<ccef7f7b1001291302v5be9e1e2td93e7de55a298beb@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B63573C.4010804@alteeve.com>
	<982579711001291640y340ee86ence43d282bb38fc0f@mail.gmail.com>
	<8204a4fe1001291738m49637ee4x5fa4b77ee4d1df91@mail.gmail.com>
	<982579711001291812ge9eb1e2tf50479bc0be6de02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87zl3w9osw.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "SF" == Shaun Fryer <sfryer at sourcery.ca> writes:

  SF> The most common example would be creating a hash which I'm
  SF> populating with values, and don't want a given key to exist() if
  SF> the right hand side is undef.

  SF> my %foo;
  SF> $foo{bar} = $baz if $baz;

well, that doesn't check for undef, just truth. add defined in there if
you are checking for undef.

if you are populating a whole hash from another one (as in adding or
setting options with defaults) there are better ways than doing it one
at a time. i won't put code in here unless you ask about needing such a
beast. you can do several neat tricks with hash overrides, slices, map,
etc.

  SF> In this case...

  SF> $foo{bar} = $baz // undef;

  SF> ...while interesting, isn't appropriate.

your original if modifier is about the best you can do for a scalar
check.

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri at stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------

From uri at StemSystems.com  Sat Jan 30 16:42:50 2010
From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:42:50 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time!
In-Reply-To: <4B63573C.4010804@alteeve.com>
	(Madison Kelly's message of "Fri\, 29 Jan 2010 16\:46\:36 -0500")
References: <4B634B38.3080502@alteeve.com>
	<ccef7f7b1001291302v5be9e1e2td93e7de55a298beb@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B63573C.4010804@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <87fx5n3y0l.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "MK" == Madison Kelly <linux at alteeve.com> writes:

  MK> Ah, ya, I thought "!" and "not" where equiv. I switched all of my "!"
  MK> to the word "not" to make the code more readable. Oh well, now I know.

i just posted to comp.lang.perl.misc about this. seems appropriate to
repost it here:

'and' and '&&' do the exact same operation. the ONLY difference is
precedence. this is true for all the boolean ops which have symbolic and
spelled out names. the spelled out names were added to perl5 later. they
were made lower precedence on purpose so you could do boolean ops which
bind lower than things such as assignment, func calls, etc.

the reason they are there is so you can have a CHOICE in precedence. it
allows for different syntax and some like it one way or the other.

look at these two common lines:

open( my $foo, $file ) || die "can't open $file $!" ;
open my $foo, $file or die "can't open $file $!" ;

the 'or' allows you to drop the () on the open call.

a good rule (courtesy of peter scott) about when to use which form is:

use the symbolic forms (||, &&, !) when doing a boolean expression
use the spelled forms( or, and, not) when doing flow control

the precedence levels work best in those situations.

	$foo = $bar and last ;
	$foo = $bar || $default ;

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri at stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------

From mike at stok.ca  Sun Jan 31 13:52:34 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:52:34 -0500
Subject: [tpm] A handfull of books from O'Reilly.
Message-ID: <8E68F8D5-3DEE-4F10-9B95-A30B18224D10@stok.ca>

O'Reilly have sent TPM a few books.  They are:

Security on Rails, Poweski & Raphael, Dec 2009, http://pragprog.com/titles/fr_secure/security-on-rails
My New Mac (Snow Leopard Edition), Wang, Aug 2009, http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781593272098
Regular Expression Cookbook, Goyvaerts & Levithan, May 2009, http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520687
Programming Perl (third edition), Wall, Christiansen, & Orwant, July 2000, http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596000271

If you want one of these then just let me know and I can bring it to a meeting (or figure out some other way of getting it to you.)  All that you need to do if you want a book is produce a brief review within a few (3-ish) months of getting it so I can add the review to the TPM web site.  First come, first served.

If you want some other O'Reilly / Pragmatic Programmer / No Starch / Paraglyph etc. books then one way to get them for "free" is to harass me for a review copy, and review it.

Mike

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From mike at stok.ca  Sun Jan 31 16:33:09 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:33:09 -0500
Subject: [tpm] A handfull of books from O'Reilly.
In-Reply-To: <8E68F8D5-3DEE-4F10-9B95-A30B18224D10@stok.ca>
References: <8E68F8D5-3DEE-4F10-9B95-A30B18224D10@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <17372452-F341-4EC5-8578-3221CDE69BD1@stok.ca>

The Regular Expression Cookbook has been claimed.

Mike

On Jan 31, 2010, at 4:52 PM, Mike Stok wrote:

> O'Reilly have sent TPM a few books.  They are:
> 
> Security on Rails, Poweski & Raphael, Dec 2009, http://pragprog.com/titles/fr_secure/security-on-rails
> My New Mac (Snow Leopard Edition), Wang, Aug 2009, http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781593272098
> Regular Expression Cookbook, Goyvaerts & Levithan, May 2009, http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520687
> Programming Perl (third edition), Wall, Christiansen, & Orwant, July 2000, http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596000271
> 
> If you want one of these then just let me know and I can bring it to a meeting (or figure out some other way of getting it to you.)  All that you need to do if you want a book is produce a brief review within a few (3-ish) months of getting it so I can add the review to the TPM web site.  First come, first served.
> 
> If you want some other O'Reilly / Pragmatic Programmer / No Starch / Paraglyph etc. books then one way to get them for "free" is to harass me for a review copy, and review it.
> 
> Mike
> 
> -- 
> 
> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
> 
> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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