From cmeyer at helvella.org Fri Feb 9 13:59:28 2007 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:59:28 -0800 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] The future of SPUG Message-ID: <20070209215928.GA15365@funpox.helvella.org> Folks, I've been doing a bit of thinking and talking about SPUG lately. I think that it used to be an excellent resource, and could easily become one again. Background: I feel that we are entering a time of technological ambiguity for internet software companies. A year or two ago, and anyone recommending technology for internet software could do no wrong by advocating Java or .Net. There was just no question about it, the answer was obvious. But these days companies looking to hire seem up in the air about their technological platform. You hear companies saying that they are "looking at" LAMP, SOA, ROR, etc. I find the fact that Ruby on Rails is gaining such popularity to be a definite clue that companies are not just accepting de-facto standards, but are willing to look at fringe or niche technologies. So, this is where SPUG comes in, and why it is so important to revive our group now. As we are all aware, Perl is good technology. I don't really have to say that it is better than e.g. ROR, but simply that it is *good* technology. And Perl attracts a certain type of engineer. When these engineers are allowed to thrive with their good technology, they do excellent work. SPUG plays the role of advocacy. Folks from different companies around town can get together and see how each other are using Perl. We get confirmation time and again that Perl is being used to solve important problems. It is a place for people to see that Perl is being used by companies to make money. It is a place for employees to hook up with employers. It is a place for people to improve their knowledge and hone their skills. What do we need to get SPUG on top again? That is easy. SPUG was awesome under the excellent leadership of its founder, Tim Maher. Tim publicly divulged his secrets a few times. It basically comes down to: - Regularly scheduled meetings. The question "is there a meeting this month?" should never come up on the email list - Meetings that are well organized and executed -- Tim had a simple format of roughly: Perl news, introduce new members, who's hiring, who's looking, introduce speaker, make sure that there's a mid meeting bathroom break, let people know where to get together after the meeting for a drink. Ever since Tim stepped down (THANKS again for the YEARS of excellent leadership, Tim), we have been floundering. There have been a number of people who have stepped up, and then stepped back down again, myself among them. Thanks to: Andy, Jerry, Trey, numerous other people who's names won't come to the top of my head right now, for arranging for speakers, running the mailing lists, and other such work. Sadly for us, that has not been enough. I have found someone who is willing to organize SPUG, and who I believe is plenty capable. His only hesitation is he is not a terribly technical person. He is a recruiter. You may have guessed who he is by now. I don't think that our leader needs to be a technical ubergeek. What we really need is organization. So, I guess that my purpose of writing this note is to get some feedback. One thing is that I don't want to come in and tromp on anyone else's ideas. But I do want to get SPUG going, to restore the value it once had. What do you think? Thanks, -Colin. From andrew at sweger.net Fri Feb 9 14:08:33 2007 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:08:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [SPUG-Workers] The future of SPUG In-Reply-To: <20070209215928.GA15365@funpox.helvella.org> Message-ID: You've got me curious. And I'm open to the idea. I'm amazed at how much energy can go in to organizing. On Fri, 9 Feb 2007, Colin Meyer wrote: > I have found someone who is willing to organize SPUG, and who I believe > is plenty capable. His only hesitation is he is not a terribly technical > person. He is a recruiter. You may have guessed who he is by now. I don't > think that our leader needs to be a technical ubergeek. What we really > need is organization. > > So, I guess that my purpose of writing this note is to get some feedback. > One thing is that I don't want to come in and tromp on anyone else's > ideas. But I do want to get SPUG going, to restore the value it once > had. > > What do you think? -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From jerry.gay at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 14:39:06 2007 From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:39:06 -0800 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] The future of SPUG In-Reply-To: References: <20070209215928.GA15365@funpox.helvella.org> Message-ID: <1d9a3f400702091439n3882a324me0158f7f5412d99e@mail.gmail.com> On 2/9/07, Andrew Sweger wrote: > On Fri, 9 Feb 2007, Colin Meyer wrote: > > > I have found someone who is willing to organize SPUG, and who I believe > > is plenty capable. His only hesitation is he is not a terribly technical > > person. He is a recruiter. You may have guessed who he is by now. I don't > > think that our leader needs to be a technical ubergeek. What we really > > need is organization. > > > > So, I guess that my purpose of writing this note is to get some feedback. > > One thing is that I don't want to come in and tromp on anyone else's > > ideas. But I do want to get SPUG going, to restore the value it once > > had. > > > > What do you think? > > You've got me curious. And I'm open to the idea. I'm amazed at how much > energy can go in to organizing. > i believe anyone who shows initiative should be rewarded with responsibility :) between family, travel, and weather, i've missed the last three meetings, and have had little to no time for organizing them. i, like andrew, am amazed at how much energy it takes to get meetings coordinated and organized. in fact, one part of that would make a great topic for this month's meeting--automation of meeting announcement tasks. there is a stock announcement email and wiki info to update every month. doing it manually takes time, and, frankly, is unnecessary. we can build a set of modules and utilities which will take much of the pain out of manual tasks, and let the organizer concentrate on the things that require thought. let's develop these tools together, at this month's meeting. ~jerry From kevin-spug at fink.com Fri Feb 9 14:39:25 2007 From: kevin-spug at fink.com (Kevin Fink) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 14:39:25 -0800 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] The future of SPUG In-Reply-To: <20070209215928.GA15365@funpox.helvella.org> References: <20070209215928.GA15365@funpox.helvella.org> Message-ID: <45CCF81D.5030606@fink.com> Colin and I have already discussed this a bit, but just to get my "vote" out there - I think that this would be a great move for SPUG. The resource (I'm going generic, since Colin didn't name names) he has talked to would do an excellent job. Although he isn't a Perl geek (yet) he has all of the leadership qualities that SPUG needs. Kevin Colin Meyer wrote: > Folks, > > I've been doing a bit of thinking and talking about SPUG lately. I > think that it used to be an excellent resource, and could easily become > one again. > > Background: I feel that we are entering a time of technological > ambiguity for internet software companies. A year or two ago, and anyone > recommending technology for internet software could do no wrong by > advocating Java or .Net. There was just no question about it, the answer > was obvious. > > But these days companies looking to hire seem up in the air about their > technological platform. You hear companies saying that they are "looking > at" LAMP, SOA, ROR, etc. I find the fact that Ruby on Rails is gaining > such popularity to be a definite clue that companies are not just > accepting de-facto standards, but are willing to look at fringe or niche > technologies. > > So, this is where SPUG comes in, and why it is so important to revive > our group now. As we are all aware, Perl is good technology. I don't > really have to say that it is better than e.g. ROR, but simply that it > is *good* technology. > > And Perl attracts a certain type of engineer. When these engineers are > allowed to thrive with their good technology, they do excellent work. > > SPUG plays the role of advocacy. Folks from different companies around > town can get together and see how each other are using Perl. We get > confirmation time and again that Perl is being used to solve important > problems. It is a place for people to see that Perl is being used by > companies to make money. It is a place for employees to hook up with > employers. It is a place for people to improve their knowledge and hone > their skills. > > What do we need to get SPUG on top again? That is easy. SPUG was awesome > under the excellent leadership of its founder, Tim Maher. Tim publicly > divulged his secrets a few times. It basically comes down to: > - Regularly scheduled meetings. The question "is there a meeting this > month?" should never come up on the email list > - Meetings that are well organized and executed -- Tim had a simple > format of roughly: Perl news, introduce new members, who's hiring, > who's looking, introduce speaker, make sure that there's a mid > meeting bathroom break, let people know where to get together after > the meeting for a drink. > > Ever since Tim stepped down (THANKS again for the YEARS of excellent > leadership, Tim), we have been floundering. There have been a number of > people who have stepped up, and then stepped back down again, myself > among them. Thanks to: Andy, Jerry, Trey, numerous other people who's > names won't come to the top of my head right now, for arranging for > speakers, running the mailing lists, and other such work. Sadly for us, > that has not been enough. > > I have found someone who is willing to organize SPUG, and who I believe > is plenty capable. His only hesitation is he is not a terribly technical > person. He is a recruiter. You may have guessed who he is by now. I don't > think that our leader needs to be a technical ubergeek. What we really > need is organization. > > So, I guess that my purpose of writing this note is to get some feedback. > One thing is that I don't want to come in and tromp on anyone else's > ideas. But I do want to get SPUG going, to restore the value it once > had. > > What do you think? > > Thanks, > -Colin. > _______________________________________________ > SPUG-Workers mailing list > SPUG-Workers at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-workers From cmeyer at helvella.org Fri Feb 9 19:20:44 2007 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 19:20:44 -0800 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] The future of SPUG In-Reply-To: <1d9a3f400702091439n3882a324me0158f7f5412d99e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070209215928.GA15365@funpox.helvella.org> <1d9a3f400702091439n3882a324me0158f7f5412d99e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070210032044.GA25633@funpox.helvella.org> On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 02:39:06PM -0800, jerry gay wrote: > i believe anyone who shows initiative should be rewarded with > responsibility :) :) The person is Daina Wilburn, who has been consulting as a technical recruiter for Whitepages. Many of you have met him at recent SPUG meetings. He's often been the contact person who will go down to greet people and let them up the elevators to get to the meetings. He's done top notch recruiting for WP. His office, until today, was right next to my cube, so I've had lots of opportunity to chat with him about working with software, the Perl community, stereo and computer geekery and so on. I'm pretty glad that he's willing to help out. > in fact, one part of that would make a > great topic for this month's meeting--automation of meeting > announcement tasks. > > there is a stock announcement email and wiki info to update every > month. doing it manually takes time, and, frankly, is unnecessary. we > can build a set of modules and utilities which will take much of the > pain out of manual tasks, and let the organizer concentrate on the > things that require thought. let's develop these tools together, at > this month's meeting. That is a great idea, Jerry. Let's dedicate the upcoming meeting to creating a few simple automation tools. Feel free to write up an announcement and send it to the main list, or I will when I get back from a weekend trip. Have fun, -Colin. From kevin-spug at fink.com Fri Feb 9 20:42:58 2007 From: kevin-spug at fink.com (Kevin Fink) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 20:42:58 -0800 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] The future of SPUG In-Reply-To: <20070210032044.GA25633@funpox.helvella.org> References: <20070209215928.GA15365@funpox.helvella.org> <1d9a3f400702091439n3882a324me0158f7f5412d99e@mail.gmail.com> <20070210032044.GA25633@funpox.helvella.org> Message-ID: <45CD4D52.1030901@fink.com> Daina rocks. Colin Meyer wrote: > The person is Daina Wilburn, who has been consulting as a technical > recruiter for Whitepages. Many of you have met him at recent SPUG > meetings. He's often been the contact person who will go down to greet > people and let them up the elevators to get to the meetings. From sthoenna at efn.org Mon Feb 12 22:18:01 2007 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:18:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [SPUG-Workers] The future of SPUG Message-ID: <1125.63.226.247.186.1171347481.squirrel@63.226.247.186> Ditto. On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 08:42:58PM -0800, Kevin Fink wrote: > Daina rocks. > > Colin Meyer wrote: > > The person is Daina Wilburn, who has been consulting as a technical > > recruiter for Whitepages. Many of you have met him at recent SPUG > > meetings. He's often been the contact person who will go down to greet > > people and let them up the elevators to get to the meetings. > > _______________________________________________ > SPUG-Workers mailing list > SPUG-Workers at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-workers -- I'm looking for a job: http://perlmonks.org/?node=ysth#looking From cmeyer at helvella.org Wed Mar 14 11:31:38 2007 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:31:38 -0700 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] upcoming meeting Message-ID: <20070314183138.GE10145@funpoxgig.helvella.org> Let's see. We have a meeting coming up on the 20th, next Tuesday. Ingy has offered to give a take about the new Kwiki. Ingy, can you confirm that you'll talk on this coming Tuesday? Thanks. :) We need to send out an announcement to the main list. Daina, would you like to do that as your first official announcement. ... the initial excitement about an automated tool for announcements has dwindled slightly. But I feel that it could still be pretty easily accomplished. If we can get a svn repo and some irc goodness going, then we can pretty easily have virtual meetings to get things cooking. -Colin. From andrew at sweger.net Wed Mar 14 14:57:07 2007 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:57:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [SPUG-Workers] upcoming meeting In-Reply-To: <20070314183138.GE10145@funpoxgig.helvella.org> Message-ID: I can't believe this much time has already passed. Where the heck have I been? On Wed, 14 Mar 2007, Colin Meyer wrote: > Ingy has offered to give a take about the new Kwiki. Ingy, can you > confirm that you'll talk on this coming Tuesday? Thanks. :) Yay! I'm looking forward to this. > ... the initial excitement about an automated tool for announcements has > dwindled slightly. But I feel that it could still be pretty easily > accomplished. If we can get a svn repo and some irc goodness going, then > we can pretty easily have virtual meetings to get things cooking. Okay, I turned a blind eye to my work and smacked some rocks together behind me and managed to light a small fire under my butt. I've got an initial trac environment up and running at http://trac.seattleperl.org/ Those wise in the ways of trac-admin and good ways to configure the project, your advice is welcome. There's a subversion repository attached but not exposed yet. It'll show up on http://svn.seattleperl.org/ at some point. Would anyone care to debate http vs https for authenticated access to the SVN repository (for write permission)? I normally just use https, but I'm wondering if this is worth the effort of setting it up (getting the IP address, making a cert, putting the config into apache, etc.). Alternately, I could drop it behind an existing domain name that I already run SSL for (secure.addnorya.com). Speaking of which, that cert is expired... bah. -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From cmeyer at helvella.org Fri Mar 16 11:23:05 2007 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:23:05 -0700 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] upcoming meeting In-Reply-To: <20070314183138.GE10145@funpoxgig.helvella.org> References: <20070314183138.GE10145@funpoxgig.helvella.org> Message-ID: <20070316182305.GW10145@funpoxgig.helvella.org> Andy (or anyone else who may have the appropriate access), Could you approve Daina's meeting announcement post to the main SPUG list? Thanks! -Colin. On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 11:31:38AM -0700, Colin Meyer wrote: > Let's see. We have a meeting coming up on the 20th, next Tuesday. From sthoenna at efn.org Tue Mar 20 10:14:42 2007 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SPUG-Workers] SPUG: Meeting Announcement -- 20 March 2007 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090.67.42.106.95.1174410882.squirrel@67.42.106.95> I just added this meeting to the wiki, pretty much just cutting and pasting. If anyone wants to make it actually look good, feel free. > After 6PM, the building management restricts access to most floors. > Our host is trying to take care of this, but if unsuccessful, they > will station someone on the 1st floor near the elevator bank and 5th > Avenue entrance to let people in. Worst case scenario, give the host a > call on his cell phone[2] or [3] and he'll run down to let you in. > [2] - 206 354 7789 > [3] - 206-271-9267 These numbers are different from the one that was on the wiki, so I changed it. Hope this was correct. From sthoenna at efn.org Sun Sep 2 16:05:46 2007 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 16:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SPUG-Workers] september meeting? Message-ID: <39393.70.56.81.69.1188774346.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> Do we have a speaker for September 18th? If not, is it possible Ingy might be willing to give another shot at coming up from Portland for a kwiki talk? From cmeyer at helvella.org Sun Sep 2 22:07:24 2007 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 22:07:24 -0700 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] september meeting? In-Reply-To: <39393.70.56.81.69.1188774346.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> References: <39393.70.56.81.69.1188774346.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> Message-ID: <20070903050724.GE12651@infula.helvella.org> On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 04:05:46PM -0700, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: > Do we have a speaker for September 18th? > > If not, is it possible Ingy might be willing to give another shot at > coming up from Portland for a kwiki talk? Ingy lives on First Hill these days, so he doesn't have to come from Portland. I was trying to get Schwern to come up & give a talk, but he hasn't agreed to it yet. Well, he did agree to give a talk, but he hasn't committed to a date. -Colin. From dwilburn at whitepages.com Sun Sep 2 22:59:55 2007 From: dwilburn at whitepages.com (Daina Wilburn) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 22:59:55 -0700 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] september meeting? References: <39393.70.56.81.69.1188774346.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> <20070903050724.GE12651@infula.helvella.org> Message-ID: <99EC30D21F5A8A44B1369983D2D95299111AA7@netmail.corp.w3data.com> Yea, I haven't followed up with Schwern, but we do definitely need a speaker for September, so any arm twisting is appreciated. Thanks! Daina -----Original Message----- From: Colin Meyer [mailto:cmeyer at helvella.org] Sent: Sun 9/2/2007 10:07 PM To: Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes Cc: spug-workers at pm.org; Daina Wilburn Subject: Re: [SPUG-Workers] september meeting? On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 04:05:46PM -0700, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: > Do we have a speaker for September 18th? > > If not, is it possible Ingy might be willing to give another shot at > coming up from Portland for a kwiki talk? Ingy lives on First Hill these days, so he doesn't have to come from Portland. I was trying to get Schwern to come up & give a talk, but he hasn't agreed to it yet. Well, he did agree to give a talk, but he hasn't committed to a date. -Colin. From andrew at sweger.net Sun Sep 2 23:09:44 2007 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SPUG-Workers] september meeting? In-Reply-To: <99EC30D21F5A8A44B1369983D2D95299111AA7@netmail.corp.w3data.com> Message-ID: Another possibility might be Allison Randal (another Portlander). But it might be too short notice (and I have no idea if she's travelling). She mentioned that she makes regular trips to Seattle for family. If one of those trips happened to coincide with a SPUG evening, she said she'd be interested in speaking. Is anyone in (semi-) routine contact with her on this list? On Sun, 2 Sep 2007, Daina Wilburn wrote: > Yea, I haven't followed up with Schwern, but we do definitely need a > speaker for September, so any arm twisting is appreciated. -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From jerry.gay at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 18:28:42 2007 From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 18:28:42 -0700 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] september meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <99EC30D21F5A8A44B1369983D2D95299111AA7@netmail.corp.w3data.com> Message-ID: <1d9a3f400709031828i3b2dfd67m39fb9d8ed3c5c464@mail.gmail.com> i speak with allison at least once a week. i'll mention it to her tomorrow and let you know. ~jerry On 9/2/07, Andrew Sweger wrote: > Another possibility might be Allison Randal (another Portlander). But it > might be too short notice (and I have no idea if she's travelling). She > mentioned that she makes regular trips to Seattle for family. If one of > those trips happened to coincide with a SPUG evening, she said she'd be > interested in speaking. Is anyone in (semi-) routine contact with her on > this list? > > On Sun, 2 Sep 2007, Daina Wilburn wrote: > > > Yea, I haven't followed up with Schwern, but we do definitely need a > > speaker for September, so any arm twisting is appreciated. > > -- > Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several > things can go wrong at once. > > _______________________________________________ > SPUG-Workers mailing list > SPUG-Workers at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-workers > From dwilburn at whitepages.com Mon Sep 3 22:11:06 2007 From: dwilburn at whitepages.com (Daina Wilburn) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:11:06 -0700 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] september meeting? References: <99EC30D21F5A8A44B1369983D2D95299111AA7@netmail.corp.w3data.com> <1d9a3f400709031828i3b2dfd67m39fb9d8ed3c5c464@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99EC30D21F5A8A44B1369983D2D95299111AA9@netmail.corp.w3data.com> Hey thanks guys! Daina -----Original Message----- From: jerry gay [mailto:jerry.gay at gmail.com] Sent: Mon 9/3/2007 6:28 PM To: Andrew Sweger Cc: Daina Wilburn; spug-workers at pm.org Subject: Re: [SPUG-Workers] september meeting? i speak with allison at least once a week. i'll mention it to her tomorrow and let you know. ~jerry On 9/2/07, Andrew Sweger wrote: > Another possibility might be Allison Randal (another Portlander). But it > might be too short notice (and I have no idea if she's travelling). She > mentioned that she makes regular trips to Seattle for family. If one of > those trips happened to coincide with a SPUG evening, she said she'd be > interested in speaking. Is anyone in (semi-) routine contact with her on > this list? > > On Sun, 2 Sep 2007, Daina Wilburn wrote: > > > Yea, I haven't followed up with Schwern, but we do definitely need a > > speaker for September, so any arm twisting is appreciated. > > -- > Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several > things can go wrong at once. > > _______________________________________________ > SPUG-Workers mailing list > SPUG-Workers at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-workers > From jerry.gay at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 21:18:51 2007 From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:18:51 -0700 Subject: [SPUG-Workers] september meeting? In-Reply-To: <1d9a3f400709031828i3b2dfd67m39fb9d8ed3c5c464@mail.gmail.com> References: <99EC30D21F5A8A44B1369983D2D95299111AA7@netmail.corp.w3data.com> <1d9a3f400709031828i3b2dfd67m39fb9d8ed3c5c464@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1d9a3f400709052118t41077db5oa96c250e07421a99@mail.gmail.com> allison texted me tonight to give an affirmative for this month's spug meeting. we can coordinate the details of topic et cetera at allison at perl.org ~jerry On 9/3/07, jerry gay wrote: > i speak with allison at least once a week. i'll mention it to her > tomorrow and let you know. > ~jerry > > On 9/2/07, Andrew Sweger wrote: > > Another possibility might be Allison Randal (another Portlander). But it > > might be too short notice (and I have no idea if she's travelling). She > > mentioned that she makes regular trips to Seattle for family. If one of > > those trips happened to coincide with a SPUG evening, she said she'd be > > interested in speaking. Is anyone in (semi-) routine contact with her on > > this list? > > > > On Sun, 2 Sep 2007, Daina Wilburn wrote: > > > > > Yea, I haven't followed up with Schwern, but we do definitely need a > > > speaker for September, so any arm twisting is appreciated. > > > > -- > > Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several > > things can go wrong at once. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SPUG-Workers mailing list > > SPUG-Workers at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-workers > > >