From MichaelRWolf at att.net Thu Nov 6 10:49:18 2008 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:49:18 -0800 Subject: SPUG: Bye bye XP PC!!! Hello Leopard Mac??? Message-ID: <49133C2E.1050102@att.net> My laptop PC's motherboard is fatally injured. It's time to exercise Washington's newly passed right-to-die initiative. A lot's changed in the 6-8 years since I last made this decision. I'd like to consider a Mac this time around. I'd be interested in anyone's Perl-centric (and business-owner-centric) pro/con list for both sides. Thanks, Michael P.S. If it's generally useful to the group, please post here. If not, would you prefer email or a quick phone call? From bill at celestial.com Thu Nov 6 11:24:38 2008 From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:24:38 -0800 Subject: SPUG: Bye bye XP PC!!! Hello Leopard Mac??? In-Reply-To: <49133C2E.1050102@att.net> References: <49133C2E.1050102@att.net> Message-ID: <20081106192438.GA29621@ayn.mi.celestial.com> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote: > My laptop PC's motherboard is fatally injured. It's time to exercise > Washington's newly passed right-to-die initiative. > > A lot's changed in the 6-8 years since I last made this decision. I'd > like to consider a Mac this time around. > > I'd be interested in anyone's Perl-centric (and business-owner-centric) > pro/con list for both sides. I have been using OS X as my primary desktop and laptop OS for several years now, currently a PPC Mac Mini running Tiger, and a rather ancient Titanium Powerbook running Leopard (try running M$-Vista on an 867MhZ machine with 1GB RAM:-). I am getting a severe case of NCF (New Computer Fever) for an Intel Mac to allow me to run VMware for those extremely rare instances where I might want to run something from the Redmon Raptor. Prior to getting the Powerbook, I had been running various flavors of Linux on Thinkpads, the last one being an 8-year old TP600 running SuSE 9.2 Pro. The perl that comes with OS X runs fine. There are a few issues with X11 on Leopard, but fixes are available. Personally I build quite a bit of my own stuff on the Macs using the OpenPKG portable package management system including a large number of perl and python modules. There are a couple of open source projects, macports which is basically the same as freebsd ports, and fink which concentrates on binary packages. Building compiled programs can be a bit different on OS X, but generally isn't a problem with most open source packages that use the GNU autoxxxx configuration. For people who use M$-Office there are a couple of options, spend the money to buy M$-Office 2008 for Mac, use OpenOffice.org with X11 , or NeoOffice which is OpenOffice.org with a native OS X interface. I use NeoOffice, mostly for spread sheets as most of my text processing is done with vim and docbook xml. Generally speaking, all the desktop/productivity stuff Just Works(tm) on OS X, and the iLife multi-media software that's bundled with the Macs is Good Enough(tm) for most people who aren't high-end professionals. For those there are programs like Aperture, Final Cut Pro, and the Adobe suites which were born and bred on Macs. Apple just released new versions of the MacBook and MacBook Pro in the last week or so. This may make for some good deals on the ``older'' ones. Be aware that the lower-end new Macbooks now do not have FireWire, only the new MacBook Pros do. Personally I plan on getting a 15in MacBook Pro as I prefer the large screen (and I only get new laptops every five or six years so figure go for the best available). One can get refurbished Macs from apple.com with new warranties, and with fair savings. Go to the store tab, then search on refurbished. I don't think you will find any of the newest MacBooks on the refurb list yet as they were just announced. Another place for good deals on Mac laptops is wegenermedia.com. The more RAM the better of course. Unless one finds a good deal on a refurbished machine on the Apple site, I would not buy RAM from Apple, but get Kingston RAM from newegg.com or some other site, and install it yourself. Disclaimer: I have no business relationship with any of the vendors mentioned above. They are companies I have done business with over the years with good results. Bill -- INTERNET: bill at celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820 Fax: (206) 232-9186 Blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the national debt. -- Herbert Hoover From atom.powers at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 11:27:38 2008 From: atom.powers at gmail.com (Atom Powers) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:27:38 -0800 Subject: SPUG: Bye bye XP PC!!! Hello Leopard Mac??? In-Reply-To: <20081106192438.GA29621@ayn.mi.celestial.com> References: <49133C2E.1050102@att.net> <20081106192438.GA29621@ayn.mi.celestial.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Bill Campbell wrote: > On Thu, Nov 06, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote: > > For people who use M$-Office there are a couple of options, spend > the money to buy M$-Office 2008 for Mac, use OpenOffice.org with > X11 , or NeoOffice which is OpenOffice.org with a native OS X > interface. I use NeoOffice, mostly for spread sheets as most of > my text processing is done with vim and docbook xml. > > OpenOffice 3 runs native, no X11, on Intel Macs. -- Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard. --Atom Powers-- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amitsett at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 12:29:31 2008 From: amitsett at gmail.com (Amit Sett) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:29:31 -0800 Subject: SPUG: Bye bye XP PC!!! Hello Leopard Mac??? In-Reply-To: <49133C2E.1050102@att.net> References: <49133C2E.1050102@att.net> Message-ID: I'd switch to a Mac if I were you. They are a lot easier to use and more stable. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 6, 2008, at 10:49 AM, "Michael R. Wolf" wrote: > My laptop PC's motherboard is fatally injured. It's time to > exercise Washington's newly passed right-to-die initiative. > > A lot's changed in the 6-8 years since I last made this decision. > I'd like to consider a Mac this time around. > > I'd be interested in anyone's Perl-centric (and business-owner- > centric) pro/con list for both sides. > > Thanks, > Michael > > P.S. If it's generally useful to the group, please post here. If > not, would you prefer email or a quick phone call? > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ From spug at whohasit.com Thu Nov 6 16:01:31 2008 From: spug at whohasit.com (Bryan) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:01:31 -0800 Subject: SPUG: Bye bye XP PC!!! Hello Leopard Mac??? In-Reply-To: <49133C2E.1050102@att.net> References: <49133C2E.1050102@att.net> Message-ID: <200811061601.31361.spug@whohasit.com> Now, I don't think the issue is any particular language so much, but rather, all of the other things you may want to load into your local system that should work nicely with those language(s) of choice. Frankly, developers here tend to install and configure as many tools as necessary to emulate a virtual production environment, similar to that faced within our datacenter .. not perfect, but that does save a lot of headaches moving from end to end. So in the end, that means in addition to your perl/modperl packages and dependencies, stuff like memcached, perlbal, tomcat/java, mysql, etc. and lots of more less obvious things like netpbm, imagemagik, et al should to be maintained with little or no variation. While the list of influential developers that I know running open source in the datacenter who also choose to run mac behind their primary keyboard gets longer, virtualization tools are clearly invaluable. Bryan Shiftboard, Inc. 311 1st Avenue South Suite 201 Seattle, Wa 98104 ?USA http://www.shiftboard.com "Shiftboard online scheduling: people connect, stay informed and pick up work instantly -- anytime, anywhere". On Thursday 06 November 2008 10:49:18 Michael R. Wolf wrote: > My laptop PC's motherboard is fatally injured. It's time to exercise > Washington's newly passed right-to-die initiative. > > A lot's changed in the 6-8 years since I last made this decision. I'd > like to consider a Mac this time around. > > I'd be interested in anyone's Perl-centric (and business-owner-centric) > pro/con list for both sides. > > Thanks, > Michael > > P.S. If it's generally useful to the group, please post here. If not, > would you prefer email or a quick phone call? > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ From greg.forties at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 20:02:22 2008 From: greg.forties at gmail.com (Greg Forties) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:02:22 -0800 Subject: SPUG: Bye bye XP PC!!! Hello Leopard Mac??? In-Reply-To: <200811061601.31361.spug@whohasit.com> References: <49133C2E.1050102@att.net> <200811061601.31361.spug@whohasit.com> Message-ID: Bryan's post is spot on. All the developers at my company got Macs after our lead found that using a Mac increased his productivity. We also just transitioned from from a .NET/Windows environment to java/Linux, so it just made sense to put devs in a similar environment to production servers. I can't speak to Mac support for perl, because I've never owned one, or had to develop for one, but again, I think Bryan covered this well. I don't mean to start a religious war here, but you do have another option. I'm running debian on a Thinkpad T43 (~$400 on CL) and it absolutely screams; not to mention it makes a pretty nice development environment. Linux has come a long way in the past couple years. The real question you need to ask yourself, again, is what you're going to be using the machine for. If you guys are a Windows shop, you'll have no end of frustration trying to run open source. If you aren't, I highly recommend making the switch to one of the Unix derivatives. Learning a new OS comes with its own set of frustrations, but in the end I think you'll be glad you did. Best of luck, greg On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Bryan wrote: > Now, I don't think the issue is any particular language so much, but rather, > all of the other things you may want to load into your local system that > should work nicely with those language(s) of choice. > > Frankly, developers here tend to install and configure as many tools as > necessary to emulate a virtual production environment, similar to that faced > within our datacenter .. not perfect, but that does save a lot of headaches > moving from end to end. > > So in the end, that means in addition to your perl/modperl packages and > dependencies, stuff like memcached, perlbal, tomcat/java, mysql, etc. and > lots of more less obvious things like netpbm, imagemagik, et al should to be > maintained with little or no variation. > > While the list of influential developers that I know running open source in > the datacenter who also choose to run mac behind their primary keyboard gets > longer, virtualization tools are clearly invaluable. > > > Bryan > > Shiftboard, Inc. > 311 1st Avenue South Suite 201 > Seattle, Wa 98104 USA > http://www.shiftboard.com > > "Shiftboard online scheduling: people connect, stay informed and pick up work > instantly -- anytime, anywhere". > > > > On Thursday 06 November 2008 10:49:18 Michael R. Wolf wrote: >> My laptop PC's motherboard is fatally injured. It's time to exercise >> Washington's newly passed right-to-die initiative. >> >> A lot's changed in the 6-8 years since I last made this decision. I'd >> like to consider a Mac this time around. >> >> I'd be interested in anyone's Perl-centric (and business-owner-centric) >> pro/con list for both sides. >> >> Thanks, >> Michael >> >> P.S. If it's generally useful to the group, please post here. If not, >> would you prefer email or a quick phone call? >> >> _____________________________________________________________ >> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List >> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org >> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list >> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays >> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > From atom.powers at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 11:01:51 2008 From: atom.powers at gmail.com (Atom Powers) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:01:51 -0800 Subject: SPUG: Bye bye XP PC!!! Hello Leopard Mac??? In-Reply-To: References: <49133C2E.1050102@att.net> <200811061601.31361.spug@whohasit.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:02 PM, Greg Forties wrote: > > The real question you need to ask yourself, again, is what you're > going to be using the machine for. If you guys are a Windows shop, > you'll have no end of frustration trying to run open source. If you > aren't, I highly recommend making the switch to one of the Unix > derivatives. Learning a new OS comes with its own set of > frustrations, but in the end I think you'll be glad you did. > > I've done a bit of development on both Mac OS X and Ubuntu. Nothing big, juts a few web apps here and there. It's all about the tools you use. I'm still looking for a good development suite for Mac. XCode just doesn't feel right to me. I'm currently using Eclipse, but the shortcut keys aren't mapped to the Mac style, so it's a bit confusing and I often end up doing a context search instead of a copy, for instance. You may also have issues with directory structure, depending on your development process. If I was really serious about developing, I'd build an Ubuntu box and use that. But the Mac shines in so may other ways that it just makes a better workstation overall. (And if I was going to build a develpment box, it wouldn't have a laptop-sized display either!) -- Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard. --Atom Powers-- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsl at blarg.net Sun Nov 9 14:24:24 2008 From: jsl at blarg.net (Jim Ludwig) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 14:24:24 -0800 Subject: SPUG: Bye bye XP PC!!! Hello Leopard Mac??? Message-ID: Michael R. Wolf wrote: >> My laptop PC's motherboard is fatally injured. >> It's time to exercise Washington's newly passed >> right-to-die initiative. >> >> A lot's changed in the 6-8 years since I last >> made this decision. I'd like to consider a Mac >> this time around. >> >> I'd be interested in anyone's Perl-centric (and >> business-owner-centric) pro/con list for both >> sides. I guess I'll weigh in here... I've been developing in a *nix environment ever since I've been developing, BASIC back in middle school notwithstanding. On my home machines I have Debian installs, with an XP boot on one of them for (very very occasional) games. I hear Ubuntu works well for lots of folks -- I gave it a try once, but I still preferred Debian "unstable" -- but I've noticed a fairly, um, noticeable trend the past few years, and that is that many Linux folks are "defecting" to the Mac world, people whom I thought would be running Linux to the death. And that includes myself. I was given a Mac laptop at work 2 weeks ago -- a year-old Macbook Pro -- and, barring mail, I've already transitioned all my day-to-day activities to it, and very quickly. Macs are easy. Once I move mail to it, I may have no more need for my Linux desktop at work. I'll regurgitate the standard hooplah, because it applies: It seems to be the perfect blend of elegant UI and nerdy command-line, where I still find myself spending a fair amount of time. I especially like Quicksilver, which makes launching apps a cinch. The trickiest part about the Mac transition seems to be training my hands about the Apple command key. Were I myself to be purchasing a laptop 2 months ago, it'd've been with Debian in mind. Today, I'd be getting a Mac. I really really like Debian. I just happen, it turns out, to like the Mac more. YMMV, jim From cmeyer at helvella.org Tue Nov 11 12:39:26 2008 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:39:26 -0800 Subject: SPUG: November 2008 SPUG Meeting Message-ID: <20081111203926.GC21814@infula.helvella.org> November 2008 Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting ==================================================== Topic: Reinventing 4-Wheel Drive Speaker: Gryphon Shafer Meeting Date: Tuesday, 18 November 2008 Meeting Time: 6:30 - 8:30 p.m. Location: Marchex - 4th & Pine Cost: Admission is free and open to the public Info: http://seattleperl.org/ ==================================================== Tuesday, November 18, is the next meeting of the THE SEATTLE PERL USERS GROUP. Reinventing 4-Wheel Drive Building a mod_perl MVC Framework from Scratch Perl has frameworks. Lots of frameworks. Ever thought it might not have enough? Here's your chance to learn how to build yet another web MVC framework from scratch using mod_perl, Apache, and a few of the usual suspects. Although perhaps not something you'd want to do in the real world, this talk will cover how to minimally support features such as: * persistent sessions and cookie management * taking advantage of mod_perl's hooks into Apache request phases * controller registration * persistent database connections * switching output type quickly and easily * setting up unit and integration tests Gryphon Shafer is the owner of Golden Guru, a software development company primarily using Perl. Pre-Meeting ================ If you are so inclined, please come to the pre-meeting at the Elephant & Castle pub on 5th & Union. We'll be there from 5-6:19PM. Meeting Location ================ Pizza and Beer will be provided at the meeting. Marchex 413 Pine St, Suite 500 Seattle, WA 98101 Contact: Jackie Wolfstone - 206-491-8072 The building is just south of Westlake Center. Enter on 4th Avenue, near Pine street. The entry is near the Dog In The Park hotdog stand. http://www.baylis.org/static/marchex.png Due to all of the shopping around us there is plenty of parking available in garages, but it can be hard to find street parking in the evening. See you there! From spug at magnadev.com Fri Nov 14 16:42:28 2008 From: spug at magnadev.com (Ron Pero) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:42:28 -0800 Subject: SPUG: State of the Perl Frameworks Message-ID: <491E1AF4.5060703@magnadev.com> Dear SPUGsters What is the quickest, easiest way to create a database application at a website? It's been a while since I've checked in with Catalyst, or with other Perl "frameworks". Is Catalyst the top dog in the Perl world for this kind of thing? Since the app I'm creating is small, I might use something similar to CGI::Application. No mod-perl involved. Maypole? http://maypole.perl.org/ Gantry? http://www.usegantry.org/ Perl on Rails? http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2007/11/perl_on_rails.shtml Should be interesting to hear what people are actually using, and which of these showed some promise but haven't matured. What say you? Ron From jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org Fri Nov 14 17:12:56 2008 From: jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org (SPUG Jobs) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:12:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: SPUG: JOB: Bioinformatician (South Lake Union) Message-ID: Bioinformatician Company Description: NanoStringTM Technologies has developed a patent-pending nanotechnology-based platform for single-molecule identification and digital quantification. The NanoStringTM system uniquely barcodes individual target molecules, scans them and delivers an inventory of target molecules in the biological sample. This cutting-edge technology is a broad-based platform with a wide variety of potential applications, including gene expression analysis, genotyping, proteomics and clinical diagnostics. Job Description: We are seeking a talented bioinformatician/biologist to join the Informatics team. The applicant will work closely with research scientists, commercial teams, software developers and customers to design the target specific probe pairs for individual molecules used in NanoString products. Through this work the individual will be responsible for developing, maintaining, and improving the bioinformatics analysis pipelines. The successful candidate will also have a leading role in researching new applications of the technology and improving the approaches used for probe selection. Requirements: - Bachelors or Advanced degree in Computational Biology, Applied Mathematics, Computer Science or related field with/or relevant work experience - Experience in the use of genomic databases, corresponding search algorithms, and sequence alignment tools - Good understanding of molecular biology, evolutionary biology as it relates to sequence homology, and statistical analyses - Familiarity with Tm calculations, sequence structure prediction, and RNA/DNA hybrid interactions - Proficiency with UNIX/Linux, MySQL, and with scripting languages such as Perl Additional attractive qualities include: - Strong problem-solving and analytic skills - Familiarity with microarray data analysis, proteomics data analysis, comparative genomics and common bioinformatics software tools - Experience with micro-array or PCR probe design - Comfortable with multi-tasking between projects and meeting defined deadlines - Ability to work independently and in a team environment - Can communicate relevant data effectively in oral and written NanoString Technologies 530 Fairview Ave N, Suite 2000 FAX: (206) 378-6288 Email: jobs at nanostring.com From nick-list at dytara.com Fri Nov 14 18:58:41 2008 From: nick-list at dytara.com (Nicholas Melnick) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:58:41 -0600 Subject: SPUG: State of the Perl Frameworks In-Reply-To: <491E1AF4.5060703@magnadev.com> References: <491E1AF4.5060703@magnadev.com> Message-ID: I adore Catalyst. I run one personal site off of it (whatthe%%%%.com), and have used it at two different places of employment. Most of my background was CGI::Application and handbuilt models, but once you get over the initial learning hump, primarily due to DBIx::Class, Catalyst is an absolute dream to work in. It has the added advantage of being able to test easily without an apache install, and built in scripts to work with mod_perl, FastCGI, or as a regular CGI script. Note that this message is all fluff about how much I love it. If you'd like to know more about the hows and whats, feel free to contact me. On Nov 14, 2008, at 6:42 PM, Ron Pero wrote: > Dear SPUGsters > > What is the quickest, easiest way to create a database application > at a website? > > It's been a while since I've checked in with Catalyst, or with other > Perl "frameworks". Is Catalyst the top dog in the Perl world for > this kind of thing? > > Since the app I'm creating is small, I might use something similar > to CGI::Application. No mod-perl involved. > > Maypole? http://maypole.perl.org/ > > Gantry? http://www.usegantry.org/ > > Perl on Rails? http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2007/11/perl_on_rails.shtml > > Should be interesting to hear what people are actually using, and > which of these showed some promise but haven't matured. > > What say you? From jarich at perltraining.com.au Sat Nov 15 00:59:24 2008 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:59:24 +1100 Subject: SPUG: State of the Perl Frameworks In-Reply-To: <491E1AF4.5060703@magnadev.com> References: <491E1AF4.5060703@magnadev.com> Message-ID: <491E8F6C.40803@perltraining.com.au> I can't tell you the full answer yet, because I'm still doing my research on this exact question for a talk at OSDC (Australia) in early December. Ron Pero wrote: > What is the quickest, easiest way to create a database application at a > website? It depends a little on what you need, and how much effort you want to apply. > It's been a while since I've checked in with Catalyst, or with other > Perl "frameworks". Is Catalyst the top dog in the Perl world for this > kind of thing? Catalyst by far has the biggest community. If you run into a problem or have a question of style, you can expect an answer from the Catalyst folk within 8 hours or so; often quicker. Having said that, Catalyst doesn't seem to have current support for instant CRUD (create, review, update, delete). There have been lots of projects about this over the years, but none that have really had massive buy-in. This means that you have to manage each of these functions yourself; for each of your tables; even when it's something that you might feel Perl could do for you. The argument against instant CRUD is that for all but the most trivial data, you'll want to apply verification routines, join some fields, mash others, put some in one table and some in anther and generally apply a lot more business logic than Perl could possibly guess for you. Things that make instant CRUD easy often make this kind of customisation much harder. > Since the app I'm creating is small, I might use something similar to > CGI::Application. No mod-perl involved. A very safe and common choice. I understand CGI::App to also have a very active community. > Maypole? http://maypole.perl.org/ I'm behind on my research for Maypole, but I can say that there are at least a couple of vocal community members willing to help with questions and fix bugs. Maypole advertises instant CRUD and looks pretty awesome. > Gantry? http://www.usegantry.org/ Gantry appears to have no community involvement at all, and noone has responded to any of my list posts for the two or more months I've been subscribed. I haven't finished all my research here, but the instant CRUD and everything looks absolutely awesome. Be aware that you have to install bigtop separately and the docs don't seem to tell you this. I hear (but have not confirmed) that if you run into too many problems, the assumption is that you'll buy the Gantry book for more answers. You've missed Jifty. It has slightly more community involvement, but it's extremely quiet. It's often criticised as providing the "one true way" for MVC solutions because it comes with Jifty versions of modules to provide templating, database interaction, authentication etc etc. To be fair so does Maypole and Gantry. Catalyst on the other hand merely makes recommendations. Jifty provides instant CRUD, and has some limitations on how far you can customise things. Jifty never really go the PR machine going, I suspect it was supposed to start soon after Christmas 2005. As a result, it hasn't really captured people's minds and it's languished. > Perl on Rails? > http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2007/11/perl_on_rails.shtml No idea. I hesitate to say that Catalyst is the "best" solution. When I tried to get into it for a new project late last year, I found the documentation difficult to understand; and later found that the modules recommended for use in the tutorial were deprecated. I found it continually frustrating that Catalyst didn't at least provide me with the basics of CRUD that I could then work on. Certainly having to create templates and routines for each and every part of the data annoyed me. Still it is certainly the less lonely route, and that has a lot to say for it. Jacinta -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | From k_clarke at perlprogrammer.net Sat Nov 15 07:20:58 2008 From: k_clarke at perlprogrammer.net (Ken Clarke) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 11:20:58 -0400 Subject: SPUG: State of the Perl Frameworks References: <491E1AF4.5060703@magnadev.com> Message-ID: SPUG had a talk on various frameworks a while back. They were filmed with the intention of being made availably digitally. I've always wanted to see those so if anyone knows if/where they were hosted, please post the link(s). >> Ken Clarke >> Contract Web Programmer / E-commerce Technologist >> www.PerlProgrammer.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Pero" To: Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:42 PM Subject: SPUG: State of the Perl Frameworks > Dear SPUGsters > > What is the quickest, easiest way to create a database application at a > website? > > It's been a while since I've checked in with Catalyst, or with other Perl > "frameworks". Is Catalyst the top dog in the Perl world for this kind of > thing? ... > What say you? > > Ron From ryanc at greengrey.org Sun Nov 16 15:38:49 2008 From: ryanc at greengrey.org (Ryan Corder) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:38:49 -0800 Subject: SPUG: State of the Perl Frameworks In-Reply-To: <491E1AF4.5060703@magnadev.com> References: <491E1AF4.5060703@magnadev.com> Message-ID: <20081116233848.GA430@greengrey.org> On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 04:42:28PM -0800, Ron Pero wrote: > Since the app I'm creating is small, I might use something similar to > CGI::Application. No mod-perl involved. I'm currently working on my own app/website and am doing it in CGI::Application and Wiki::Toolkit. I tried initially with Jifty, but after sitting there an recursively installing dependencies from CPAN for about an hour, I lost interest. I know there was mention of possibly doing Lightning Talks at the December meeting. If so and granted I get some decent progress on my app, I'll be glad to show off what I've done. Good luck! ryanc From ryanc at greengrey.org Tue Nov 18 14:11:07 2008 From: ryanc at greengrey.org (Ryan Corder) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:11:07 -0800 Subject: SPUG: bike parking at Marchex? Message-ID: <20081118221107.GA32506@greengrey.org> Is there any bike parking in/at Marchex? I would prefer not leaving it chained up outside. thanks. ryanc From andrew at sweger.net Wed Nov 19 08:41:15 2008 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 08:41:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: SPUG: Gryphon! Message-ID: Great topic last night, Gryphon. Thanks. It did feel kinda fast, but entertaining. It helped me better understand some of the stuff going on under the hood. What was that link for the presentation and source again, please? And thank you to whoever provided the beer and (as always) awesome Pagliacci pizza. -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From MichaelRWolf at att.net Thu Nov 20 16:18:46 2008 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:18:46 -0500 Subject: SPUG: OT Job - RoR + CMS Message-ID: <935E31F3-EFCA-4384-B933-F3739B6A0FA6@att.net> Non-Perl job in Bay Area. Anyone know a Ruby-on-Rails or Expression Engine (CMS) contractor they'd recommend? If so, let me know and I'll make the connection. Michael R. Wolf MichaelRWolf at att.net From janert at ieee.org Sun Nov 23 16:22:08 2008 From: janert at ieee.org (Philipp K. Janert) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:22:08 -0800 Subject: SPUG: RFC: Statistics::KernelEstimation - Kernel Density Estimates and Histograms Message-ID: <200811231622.08291.janert@ieee.org> I would like to invite comments on a new module, named Statistics::KernelEstimation. This modules calculates Kernel Density Estimates and related quantities for a collection of random points. A Kernel Density Estimate (KDE) is similar to a histogram, but improves on two known problems of histograms: it is smooth (whereas a histogram is ragged) and does not suffer from ambiguity in regards to the placement of bins. In a KDE, a smooth, strongly peaked function is placed at the location of each point in the collection, and the contributions from all points is summed. The resulting function is a smooth approximation to the probability density from which the set of points was drawn. This module calculates KDEs as well as Cumulative Density Functions (CDF). Three different kernels are available (Gaussian, Box, Epanechnikov). The module also includes limited support for bandwidth optimization. Finally, the module can generate "classical" histograms and distribution functions. The full POD is available here: http://www.beyondcode.org/projects/kernelestimation/ Let me know what you think! Best, Ph. From spug at magnadev.com Sun Nov 23 22:47:09 2008 From: spug at magnadev.com (Ron Pero) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:47:09 -0800 Subject: SPUG: State of the Perl Frameworks In-Reply-To: <491E1AF4.5060703@magnadev.com> References: <491E1AF4.5060703@magnadev.com> Message-ID: <492A4DED.8090602@magnadev.com> Thanks to everyone who replied to my question. I'm looking closely at Catalyst. It is certainly a LOT easier to install now than last time I checked it out. Better documentation too. Here is an interesting link: http://perlbuzz.com/2008/11/the-evolution-of-perl-frameworks.html Ron Ron Pero wrote: > Dear SPUGsters > > What is the quickest, easiest way to create a database application at a > website? > > It's been a while since I've checked in with Catalyst, or with other > Perl "frameworks". Is Catalyst the top dog in the Perl world for this > kind of thing? > > Since the app I'm creating is small, I might use something similar to > CGI::Application. No mod-perl involved. > > Maypole? http://maypole.perl.org/ > > Gantry? http://www.usegantry.org/ > > Perl on Rails? > http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2007/11/perl_on_rails.shtml > > Should be interesting to hear what people are actually using, and which > of these showed some promise but haven't matured. > > What say you? > > Ron > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > > . From choward at indicium.us Mon Nov 24 17:29:37 2008 From: choward at indicium.us (Christopher Howard) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:29:37 -0900 (AKST) Subject: SPUG: downloading from web pages Message-ID: Hi. Boss gave me a very simple task, but it's not something I've had to do before. Basically there is this scripted page on the Internet, where the visitor enters some date-time conditions, and the page spits back out a list of links to scientific datafiles that have been automatically generated on the server. All the data-time information is passed to the script as simple GET data. So I need to make a simple script that accesses the page (using the correct GET data) and downloads all files listed on the page which match a certain pattern. Kindergarten stuff for you guys I'm sure. Could someone point me in the direction of a helpful module for the accessing/downloading part? -- Christopher Howard choward at indicium.us http://www.indicium.us From charles.e.derykus at boeing.com Mon Nov 24 17:56:06 2008 From: charles.e.derykus at boeing.com (DeRykus, Charles E) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:56:06 -0800 Subject: SPUG: downloading from web pages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: LWP::Simple may be useful... eg, perl -MLWP::Simple -e 'getprint "http://foo.bar?x=input1&y=input2" Or others in the LWP suite for more functionality such as LWP::UserAgent. -- Charles DeRykus -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Howard [mailto:choward at indicium.us] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 5:30 PM To: Seattle Perl Users Group Subject: SPUG: downloading from web pages Hi. Boss gave me a very simple task, but it's not something I've had to do before. Basically there is this scripted page on the Internet, where the visitor enters some date-time conditions, and the page spits back out a list of links to scientific datafiles that have been automatically generated on the server. All the data-time information is passed to the script as simple GET data. So I need to make a simple script that accesses the page (using the correct GET data) and downloads all files listed on the page which match a certain pattern. Kindergarten stuff for you guys I'm sure. Could someone point me in the direction of a helpful module for the accessing/downloading part? -- Christopher Howard choward at indicium.us http://www.indicium.us _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list at pm.org SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ From chesseditor at yahoo.com Mon Nov 24 20:56:09 2008 From: chesseditor at yahoo.com (Eric) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:56:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: SPUG: downloading from web pages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <301232.42850.qm@web50312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I've always been partial to WWW-Mechanize: http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/WWW-Mechanize/ What's I'd love to see someone publish is a table listing the various modules for doing HTTP with the strengths and weaknesses of each. Eric Harman QA Engineer --- On Mon, 11/24/08, Christopher Howard wrote: > From: Christopher Howard > Subject: SPUG: downloading from web pages > To: "Seattle Perl Users Group" > Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 5:29 PM > Hi. Boss gave me a very simple task, but it's not > something I've had to do before. > > Basically there is this scripted page on the Internet, > where the visitor enters some date-time conditions, and the > page spits back out a list of links to scientific datafiles > that have been automatically generated on the server. All > the data-time information is passed to the script as simple > GET data. > > So I need to make a simple script that accesses the page > (using the correct GET data) and downloads all files listed > on the page which match a certain pattern. Kindergarten > stuff for you guys I'm sure. Could someone point me in > the direction of a helpful module for the > accessing/downloading part? > > -- > Christopher Howard > choward at indicium.us > http://www.indicium.us > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ From sthoenna at efn.org Mon Nov 24 21:15:29 2008 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 21:15:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: SPUG: downloading from web pages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35527.97.113.115.161.1227590129.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> On Mon, November 24, 2008 5:29 pm, Christopher Howard wrote: > So I need to make a simple script that accesses the page (using the > correct GET data) and downloads all files listed on the page which match a > certain pattern. Kindergarten stuff for you guys I'm sure. Could > someone point me in the direction of a helpful module for the > accessing/downloading part? I would use wget, not perl. From nick-list at dytara.com Mon Nov 24 21:29:38 2008 From: nick-list at dytara.com (Nicholas Melnick) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:29:38 -0600 Subject: SPUG: downloading from web pages In-Reply-To: <35527.97.113.115.161.1227590129.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> References: <35527.97.113.115.161.1227590129.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> Message-ID: On Nov 24, 2008, at 11:15 PM, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: > I would use wget, not perl. [It would help if I responded to the list, eh?] He did mention parsing the page and downloading files matching a certain pattern. This sounds like something perl would be good at with minimal fuss. ;) LWP::Simple sounds like a good plan here, as it's fundamentally simple. use strict; use warnings; use LWP::Simple; my $page = get('http://www.example.com'); while ( $page =~ /pattern with (http:\/\/stuff I want)/g ) { my $newpage = get($1); # do something with the result } 1; - Nick From sthoenna at efn.org Mon Nov 24 21:45:06 2008 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 21:45:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: SPUG: downloading from web pages In-Reply-To: References: <35527.97.113.115.161.1227590129.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> Message-ID: <60995.97.113.115.161.1227591906.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> On Mon, November 24, 2008 9:29 pm, Nicholas Melnick wrote: > On Nov 24, 2008, at 11:15 PM, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: >> I would use wget, not perl. > > He did mention parsing the page and downloading files matching a > certain pattern. This sounds like something perl would be good at with > minimal fuss. ;) perl, or wget's -A option :) From choward at indicium.us Wed Nov 26 17:27:26 2008 From: choward at indicium.us (Christopher Howard) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:27:26 -0900 (AKST) Subject: SPUG: downloading from web pages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, DeRykus, Charles E wrote: > LWP::Simple may be useful... eg, > > perl -MLWP::Simple -e 'getprint "http://foo.bar?x=input1&y=input2" > > Or others in the LWP suite for more functionality such as > LWP::UserAgent. > > -- > Charles DeRykus > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Howard [mailto:choward at indicium.us] > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 5:30 PM > To: Seattle Perl Users Group > Subject: SPUG: downloading from web pages > > Hi. Boss gave me a very simple task, but it's not something I've had to > do before. > > Basically there is this scripted page on the Internet, where the visitor > enters some date-time conditions, and the page spits back out a list of > links to scientific datafiles that have been automatically generated on > the server. All the data-time information is passed to the script as > simple GET data. > > So I need to make a simple script that accesses the page (using the > correct GET data) and downloads all files listed on the page which match > a certain pattern. Kindergarten stuff for you guys I'm sure. Could > someone point me in the direction of a helpful module for the > accessing/downloading part? > > -- > Christopher Howard > choward at indicium.us > http://www.indicium.us > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > Thanks for the help everyone. I ended-up use LWP::Simple because it was, well... simple. I don't know much about wget, but I think Perl was better in this case. Lot of dynamic stuff going on here with the URIs, and the script was meant actually to be run by someone else on a different system. All the user has to do is enter start date and end date, and save directory, and the script takes care of all the details. Plus, there were several thousand files to download, each with a unique URI. I finished the script and it works great! (Er, well, so far...) -- Christopher Howard choward at indicium.us http://www.indicium.us From phil at scharp.org Wed Nov 26 20:07:35 2008 From: phil at scharp.org (Kirsch, Phil) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:07:35 -0800 Subject: SPUG: Problems Installing from CPAN Message-ID: I'm trying to install perl Tk from cpan on Solaris 9 for Intel and it's failing to "make". Here are the last few lines of output: Writing Makefile for Tk /usr/local/bin/make: syntax error at line 1: `(' unexpected /usr/local/bin/make -j3 -- NOT OK Running make test Can't test without successful make Running make install make had returned bad status, install seems impossible I have already tried several different version of make. I've tried updating make. But, the error persists without variation. Is make finding something it does not expect in what it is trying to install? Can anyone suggest an area to start troubleshooting in? Phil Kirsch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sthoenna at efn.org Wed Nov 26 21:28:47 2008 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:28:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: SPUG: Problems Installing from CPAN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44409.97.113.115.161.1227763727.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> On Wed, November 26, 2008 8:07 pm, Kirsch, Phil wrote: > Writing Makefile for Tk > /usr/local/bin/make: syntax error at line 1: `(' unexpected > > I have already tried several different version of make. I've tried > updating make. But, the error persists without variation. Is make finding > something it does not expect in what it is trying to install? Can anyone > suggest an area to start troubleshooting in? Is this a GNU make? What does the beginning of the makefile look like? From tyemq at cpan.org Wed Nov 26 22:09:05 2008 From: tyemq at cpan.org (Tye McQueen) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:09:05 -0800 Subject: SPUG: Problems Installing from CPAN In-Reply-To: <44409.97.113.115.161.1227763727.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> References: <44409.97.113.115.161.1227763727.squirrel@webmail.efn.org> Message-ID: Yeah, my guess was that a Perl built with GNU Make was being used but non-GNU Make was being invoked. Installing non-pure-Perl modules often works better when using a Perl you built yourself because the Perl configuration process set up module installation to match what tools you have, not what tools some other person used. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: > On Wed, November 26, 2008 8:07 pm, Kirsch, Phil wrote: > > Writing Makefile for Tk > > /usr/local/bin/make: syntax error at line 1: `(' unexpected > > > > I have already tried several different version of make. I've tried > > updating make. But, the error persists without variation. Is make finding > > something it does not expect in what it is trying to install? Can anyone > > suggest an area to start troubleshooting in? > > Is this a GNU make? What does the beginning of the makefile look like? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tim at consultix-inc.com Fri Nov 28 18:19:28 2008 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:19:28 -0800 Subject: SPUG: Perl & CGI Classes in December, Seattle Message-ID: <20081129021928.GA14697@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> From: Consultix Re: Seattle-Area Perl Training in December Got a training budget you need to deplete ASAP? We'll be holding two more Perl classes this year, in the South-Center Mall / SeaTac area. For details, see the schedule and weblinks below. Online registration is open at http://www.consultix-inc.com/cgibin/register.cgi Best wishes, -Tim Maher (206) 781-8649 ----------------------------------------------------------- TITLE DATES Days Perl Programming 12/15-12/17 3 Perl Modules, plus CGI 12/18-12/19 1.5 (All classes taught by Dr. Tim Maher) ----------------------------------------------------------- CONSULTIX ON-LINE RESOURCES General Information: http://www.consultix-inc.com Course Listings: Perl, http://TeachMePerl.com/perllist.html UNIX/Shell, http://TeachMeUnix.com/unixlist.html Course descriptions: http://consultix-inc.com/sched.html On-Site Training: http://www.consultix-inc.com/on-site.html Tutoring: http://www.consultix-inc.com/tutoring.html Prices and Registration: http://www.consultix-inc.com/reg.txt http://www.consultix-inc.com/cgibin/register.cgi Instructor Evaluations: http://www.consultix-inc.com/testimonials.html Tim's "Minimal Perl" book: http://MinimalPerl.com *----------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, PhD (206) 781-UNIX http://www.consultix-inc.com | | tim at ( TeachMePerl, TeachMeLinux, or TeachMeUnix ) dot Com | | * * CLASSES! 12/15-12/19: Perl Programming, Modules, & CGI * * | *-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- | > "Minimal Perl for UNIX People" has been an Amazon Best Seller! < | | * Download chapters, read reviews, and order at: MinimalPerl.com * | *----------------------------------------------------------------------*