From choward at indicium.us Thu Dec 4 15:35:54 2008
From: choward at indicium.us (Christopher Howard)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 14:35:54 -0900 (AKST)
Subject: SPUG: "use warnings"
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812041428230.6681@watson.localdomain>
Question: should "use warnings" be enabled in released code? Is there any
security risk to "use warnings"?
(Side note: I remember one or two of you used to read my site blog a while
ago. If you didn't know yet, I switched my main blogging over to
Movable Type software at http://indicium.us/site_blog/ when the old
software fell apart.)
--
Christopher Howard
choward at indicium.us
http://www.indicium.us
From ingy at ingy.net Thu Dec 4 20:14:23 2008
From: ingy at ingy.net (Ingy dot Net)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 20:14:23 -0800
Subject: SPUG: "use warnings"
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812041428230.6681@watson.localdomain>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812041428230.6681@watson.localdomain>
Message-ID: <9eb4914f0812042014t6b05cfd5kfa5bb4994c22648@mail.gmail.com>
The warnings pragma does not exist before perl-5.006000. That's the only
gotcha I know of. I leave it out of modules that I want to work that far
back...
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Christopher Howard <choward at indicium.us>wrote:
> Question: should "use warnings" be enabled in released code? Is there any
> security risk to "use warnings"?
>
> (Side note: I remember one or two of you used to read my site blog a while
> ago. If you didn't know yet, I switched my main blogging over to Movable
> Type software at http://indicium.us/site_blog/ when the old software fell
> apart.)
>
> --
> Christopher Howard
> choward at indicium.us
> http://www.indicium.us
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>
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From MichaelRWolf at att.net Sun Dec 7 16:48:54 2008
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:48:54 -0800
Subject: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
Message-ID: <6DE0B9B4-EA4A-4AEC-A437-DBAB3F602315@att.net>
[I'm writing this from OS X. Thanks to all who responded to my
previous "Perl on OS X" posting. I'm very happy with the new
"unibody" design (machined from a single aluminum block) which should
hold up to the physical demands of my "road warrior" schedule.
And.... I have a *native* command line. Bye, bye Cygwin. Thanks for
making my XP sane. but so long....]
Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
$ perldoc perl
No documentation found for "perl".
$ perldoc -f chomp
No documentation found for "perlfunc".
$ perldoc -q handle
No documentation found for "perlfaq1".
No documentation found for "perlfaq2".
No documentation found for "perlfaq3".
No documentation found for "perlfaq4".
No documentation found for "perlfaq5".
No documentation found for "perlfaq6".
No documentation found for "perlfaq7".
No documentation found for "perlfaq8".
No documentation found for "perlfaq9".
$
Look familiar? Is this a Perl or OS X issue?
Is this partial install to be expected in OS X? Am I expecting a full
(developer) installation when a partial (GUI-user only) installation
is the norm? Or do I merely have a buggy installation of Mac OS 10.5?
On one hand, I want a complete Perl distribution, including
documentation. On the other hand there's lots of documentation that
suggests not mucking with the native Perl installation in /usr/bin/
perl (see note #1 below).
If I need to install a more complete version of Perl, where should I go?
- source install (from http://www.perl.org)
- ActivePerl (from http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/activeperl)
- fink (at http://www.finkproject.org)
- macports (FKA darwinports? at http://www.macports.org)
- darwinports (at http://www.darwinports.com)
- Xcode (from ADC (Apple Developer Connection) at http://www.developer.apple.com
)
I was hoping that the simple stuff would "just work". Did running
Perl on Mac OS X just get as complex as running a Unix environment
(via cygwin.org) on my XP box, or am I missing something simple?
Thanks,
Michael (the newbie OS X guy with 20+ years' Unix experience) Wolf
Notes:
1. From perlmacosx(1) man page:
[snip, snip...]
Updating Apple's Perl
In a word - don't, at least without a *very* good reason. Your
scripts can
just as easily begin with "#!/usr/local/bin/perl" as with "#!/
usr/bin/perl".
Scripts supplied by Apple and other third parties as part of
installation
packages and such have generally only been tested with the /
usr/bin/perl
that's installed by Apple.
[snip, snip...]
Starting From Scratch
Unfortunately it is not that difficult somehow manage to break
one's Mac OS X
Perl rather severely.
[snip, snip...]
Michael R. Wolf
MichaelRWolf at att.net
From bill at celestial.com Sun Dec 7 16:58:12 2008
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:58:12 -0800
Subject: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
In-Reply-To: <6DE0B9B4-EA4A-4AEC-A437-DBAB3F602315@att.net>
References: <6DE0B9B4-EA4A-4AEC-A437-DBAB3F602315@att.net>
Message-ID: <20081208005812.GA21071@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
> [I'm writing this from OS X. Thanks to all who responded to my previous
> "Perl on OS X" posting. I'm very happy with the new "unibody" design
> (machined from a single aluminum block) which should hold up to the
> physical demands of my "road warrior" schedule. And.... I have a
> *native* command line. Bye, bye Cygwin. Thanks for making my XP sane.
> but so long....]
>
> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
I suggest installing the xcode package from the original
installation DVS, then pick up the on-line update. I think the
one must sign up to Apple's free developer program to get to the
on-line updates.
The update includes fixes to gcc that caused gnu-tar to fail
building, but I don't remember the exact details.
I just did a couple of quick checks of perldoc on my PPC Titanium
Powerbook running leopard, and it works fine.
Bill
--
INTERNET: bill at celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax: (206) 232-9186
Bagdikian's Observation:
Trying to be a first-rate reporter on the average American
newspaper is like trying to play Bach's "St. Matthew Passion"
on a ukelele.
From jmates at sial.org Sun Dec 7 16:58:10 2008
From: jmates at sial.org (Jeremy Mates)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:58:10 -0800
Subject: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
In-Reply-To: <6DE0B9B4-EA4A-4AEC-A437-DBAB3F602315@att.net>
References: <6DE0B9B4-EA4A-4AEC-A437-DBAB3F602315@att.net>
Message-ID: <20081208005810.GD25165@neamh.sial.org>
* Michael R. Wolf <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
> Look familiar? Is this a Perl or OS X issue?
OS X.
> Is this partial install to be expected in OS X? Am I expecting a full
> (developer) installation when a partial (GUI-user only) installation
> is the norm? Or do I merely have a buggy installation of Mac OS 10.5?
Apple hid the perldocs in Xcode. You would have to ask them why...
Jeremy
From andrew at sweger.net Sun Dec 7 16:59:55 2008
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:59:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
In-Reply-To: <6DE0B9B4-EA4A-4AEC-A437-DBAB3F602315@att.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0812071656240.1779-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
>
> $ perldoc perl
> No documentation found for "perl".
>
> Look familiar? Is this a Perl or OS X issue?
It *should* be there, I think. It works fine for me. But I have the
developer tools (Xcode) installed, so I'm not sure where the files come
from. "perldoc -l perl" on my Mac reports:
/System/Library/Perl/5.8.8/pods/perl.pod
(What's the OS X equivelant of Debian's dpkg -S /some/file?)
--
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
things can go wrong at once.
From MichaelRWolf at att.net Sun Dec 7 17:26:38 2008
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:26:38 -0800
Subject: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
In-Reply-To: <20081208005812.GA21071@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
References: <6DE0B9B4-EA4A-4AEC-A437-DBAB3F602315@att.net>
<20081208005812.GA21071@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
Message-ID: <64162050-A120-4F85-98D2-5588D5993FB2@att.net>
On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:58 PM, Bill Campbell wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>>
[...]
>>
>> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
>> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
>
> I suggest installing the xcode package from the original
> installation DVS, then pick up the on-line update. I think the
> one must sign up to Apple's free developer program to get to the
> on-line updates.
>
The MacBook that I just purchased does *not* have a DVD with Xcode on
it, contrary to years of queried, historical postings to the
contrary. This was confirmed with an 800-apple-techie conversation
last week. All Xcode must now be downloaded from the net. It's
chugging away as I type...
> The update includes fixes to gcc that caused gnu-tar to fail
> building, but I don't remember the exact details.
gcc(1) isn't *broken*, it's *missing*!!!. (That's just one of many
other tools that cpan(1) looks for -- make(1), lynx(1), wget(1),
ncftp(1), gpg(1)). I expect that Xcode will solve that, too.
> I just did a couple of quick checks of perldoc on my PPC Titanium
> Powerbook running leopard, and it works fine.
>
Thanks....
Michael R. Wolf
MichaelRWolf at att.net
From bill at celestial.com Sun Dec 7 18:15:43 2008
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 18:15:43 -0800
Subject: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
In-Reply-To: <64162050-A120-4F85-98D2-5588D5993FB2@att.net>
References: <6DE0B9B4-EA4A-4AEC-A437-DBAB3F602315@att.net>
<20081208005812.GA21071@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
<64162050-A120-4F85-98D2-5588D5993FB2@att.net>
Message-ID: <20081208021543.GA21799@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>
> On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:58 PM, Bill Campbell wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>>>
> [...]
>>>
>>> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
>>> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
>>
>> I suggest installing the xcode package from the original
>> installation DVS, then pick up the on-line update. I think the
>> one must sign up to Apple's free developer program to get to the
>> on-line updates.
>>
>
> The MacBook that I just purchased does *not* have a DVD with Xcode on
> it, contrary to years of queried, historical postings to the contrary.
> This was confirmed with an 800-apple-techie conversation last week. All
> Xcode must now be downloaded from the net. It's chugging away as I
> type...
Since I tend to keep updating old machines (e.g. the Titanium
Powerbook) all my experience is with purchased OS packages, not
with new machines running Leopard :-).
>> The update includes fixes to gcc that caused gnu-tar to fail
>> building, but I don't remember the exact details.
>
> gcc(1) isn't *broken*, it's *missing*!!!. (That's just one of many
> other tools that cpan(1) looks for -- make(1), lynx(1), wget(1),
> ncftp(1), gpg(1)). I expect that Xcode will solve that, too.
Some of them certainly, but you may also want to look at macports
or fink. As I understand it, macports works like FreeBSD ports,
building packages from source while fink primarily provides
binary packages.
When I started building the OpenPKG system on my PPC leopard box,
and found Apple's gcc broken, I first built gcc from macports,
then bootstrapped OpenPKG with that. Shortly after that I found
the Xcode update, and restarted using that.
Bill
--
INTERNET: bill at celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax: (206) 232-9186
Good luck to all you optimists out there who think Microsoft can deliver
35 million lines of quality code on which you can operate your business.
-- John C. Dvorak
From MichaelRWolf at att.net Sun Dec 7 23:42:34 2008
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 23:42:34 -0800
Subject: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0812071656240.1779-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0812071656240.1779-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Message-ID: <FC5F9F68-D7E0-460E-9C0D-0432737B1C5D@att.net>
On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Andrew Sweger wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Dec 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>
>> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
>> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
>>
>> $ perldoc perl
>> No documentation found for "perl".
>>
>> Look familiar? Is this a Perl or OS X issue?
>
> It *should* be there, I think. It works fine for me. But I have the
> developer tools (Xcode) installed, so I'm not sure where the files
> come
> from. "perldoc -l perl" on my Mac reports:
>
> /System/Library/Perl/5.8.8/pods/perl.pod
>
Thanks. It was *not* there prior to installing Xcode, but showed up
at the same location after installing Xcode.
> (What's the OS X equivelant of Debian's dpkg -S /some/file?)
>
I don't know yet, but I will soon.
Michael R. Wolf
MichaelRWolf at att.net
From kanderson at nwadmin.com Mon Dec 8 12:45:47 2008
From: kanderson at nwadmin.com (Kristi Anderson)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:45:47 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Bagdikian's Observation, ukelele
References: <mailman.25.1228766432.23054.spug-list@pm.org>
Message-ID: <AB31A105A6CA8E4E94FB8B1B8679E82A05E66E40@SEAEX02.corp.nwadmin.com>
Bagdikian's Observation:
Trying to be a first-rate reporter on the average American
newspaper is like trying to play Bach's "St. Matthew Passion"
on a ukelele.
Oh, yeah? Check out Jake Shimabukuro (Wikipedia, youtube, Conan
O'Brien...)
Sorry, can't address the first-rate reporter issue, but you really ought
to check out this Jake Shimabukuro.
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:01 PM
To: spug-list at pm.org
Subject: spug-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 2
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Today's Topics:
1. perldoc failures on OS X (Michael R. Wolf)
2. Re: perldoc failures on OS X (Bill Campbell)
3. Re: perldoc failures on OS X (Jeremy Mates)
4. Re: perldoc failures on OS X (Andrew Sweger)
5. Re: perldoc failures on OS X (Michael R. Wolf)
6. Re: perldoc failures on OS X (Bill Campbell)
7. Re: perldoc failures on OS X (Michael R. Wolf)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:48:54 -0800
From: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
Subject: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <6DE0B9B4-EA4A-4AEC-A437-DBAB3F602315 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
[I'm writing this from OS X. Thanks to all who responded to my
previous "Perl on OS X" posting. I'm very happy with the new
"unibody" design (machined from a single aluminum block) which should
hold up to the physical demands of my "road warrior" schedule.
And.... I have a *native* command line. Bye, bye Cygwin. Thanks for
making my XP sane. but so long....]
Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
$ perldoc perl
No documentation found for "perl".
$ perldoc -f chomp
No documentation found for "perlfunc".
$ perldoc -q handle
No documentation found for "perlfaq1".
No documentation found for "perlfaq2".
No documentation found for "perlfaq3".
No documentation found for "perlfaq4".
No documentation found for "perlfaq5".
No documentation found for "perlfaq6".
No documentation found for "perlfaq7".
No documentation found for "perlfaq8".
No documentation found for "perlfaq9".
$
Look familiar? Is this a Perl or OS X issue?
Is this partial install to be expected in OS X? Am I expecting a full
(developer) installation when a partial (GUI-user only) installation
is the norm? Or do I merely have a buggy installation of Mac OS 10.5?
On one hand, I want a complete Perl distribution, including
documentation. On the other hand there's lots of documentation that
suggests not mucking with the native Perl installation in /usr/bin/
perl (see note #1 below).
If I need to install a more complete version of Perl, where should I go?
- source install (from http://www.perl.org)
- ActivePerl (from http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/activeperl)
- fink (at http://www.finkproject.org)
- macports (FKA darwinports? at http://www.macports.org)
- darwinports (at http://www.darwinports.com)
- Xcode (from ADC (Apple Developer Connection) at
http://www.developer.apple.com
)
I was hoping that the simple stuff would "just work". Did running
Perl on Mac OS X just get as complex as running a Unix environment
(via cygwin.org) on my XP box, or am I missing something simple?
Thanks,
Michael (the newbie OS X guy with 20+ years' Unix experience) Wolf
Notes:
1. From perlmacosx(1) man page:
[snip, snip...]
Updating Apple's Perl
In a word - don't, at least without a *very* good reason. Your
scripts can
just as easily begin with "#!/usr/local/bin/perl" as with "#!/
usr/bin/perl".
Scripts supplied by Apple and other third parties as part of
installation
packages and such have generally only been tested with the /
usr/bin/perl
that's installed by Apple.
[snip, snip...]
Starting From Scratch
Unfortunately it is not that difficult somehow manage to break
one's Mac OS X
Perl rather severely.
[snip, snip...]
Michael R. Wolf
MichaelRWolf at att.net
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:58:12 -0800
From: Bill Campbell <bill at celestial.com>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <20081208005812.GA21071 at ayn.mi.celestial.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
> [I'm writing this from OS X. Thanks to all who responded to my
previous
> "Perl on OS X" posting. I'm very happy with the new "unibody" design
> (machined from a single aluminum block) which should hold up to the
> physical demands of my "road warrior" schedule. And.... I have a
> *native* command line. Bye, bye Cygwin. Thanks for making my XP
sane.
> but so long....]
>
> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
I suggest installing the xcode package from the original
installation DVS, then pick up the on-line update. I think the
one must sign up to Apple's free developer program to get to the
on-line updates.
The update includes fixes to gcc that caused gnu-tar to fail
building, but I don't remember the exact details.
I just did a couple of quick checks of perldoc on my PPC Titanium
Powerbook running leopard, and it works fine.
Bill
--
INTERNET: bill at celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax: (206) 232-9186
Bagdikian's Observation:
Trying to be a first-rate reporter on the average American
newspaper is like trying to play Bach's "St. Matthew Passion"
on a ukelele.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:58:10 -0800
From: Jeremy Mates <jmates at sial.org>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
Cc: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <20081208005810.GD25165 at neamh.sial.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
* Michael R. Wolf <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
> Look familiar? Is this a Perl or OS X issue?
OS X.
> Is this partial install to be expected in OS X? Am I expecting a full
> (developer) installation when a partial (GUI-user only) installation
> is the norm? Or do I merely have a buggy installation of Mac OS 10.5?
Apple hid the perldocs in Xcode. You would have to ask them why...
Jeremy
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:59:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Sweger <andrew at sweger.net>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
Cc: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID:
<Pine.LNX.4.21.0812071656240.1779-100000 at gandalf.addnorya.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
>
> $ perldoc perl
> No documentation found for "perl".
>
> Look familiar? Is this a Perl or OS X issue?
It *should* be there, I think. It works fine for me. But I have the
developer tools (Xcode) installed, so I'm not sure where the files come
from. "perldoc -l perl" on my Mac reports:
/System/Library/Perl/5.8.8/pods/perl.pod
(What's the OS X equivelant of Debian's dpkg -S /some/file?)
--
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
things can go wrong at once.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:26:38 -0800
From: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: bill at celestial.com
Cc: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <64162050-A120-4F85-98D2-5588D5993FB2 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:58 PM, Bill Campbell wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>>
[...]
>>
>> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
>> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
>
> I suggest installing the xcode package from the original
> installation DVS, then pick up the on-line update. I think the
> one must sign up to Apple's free developer program to get to the
> on-line updates.
>
The MacBook that I just purchased does *not* have a DVD with Xcode on
it, contrary to years of queried, historical postings to the
contrary. This was confirmed with an 800-apple-techie conversation
last week. All Xcode must now be downloaded from the net. It's
chugging away as I type...
> The update includes fixes to gcc that caused gnu-tar to fail
> building, but I don't remember the exact details.
gcc(1) isn't *broken*, it's *missing*!!!. (That's just one of many
other tools that cpan(1) looks for -- make(1), lynx(1), wget(1),
ncftp(1), gpg(1)). I expect that Xcode will solve that, too.
> I just did a couple of quick checks of perldoc on my PPC Titanium
> Powerbook running leopard, and it works fine.
>
Thanks....
Michael R. Wolf
MichaelRWolf at att.net
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 18:15:43 -0800
From: Bill Campbell <bill at celestial.com>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <20081208021543.GA21799 at ayn.mi.celestial.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>
> On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:58 PM, Bill Campbell wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Dec 07, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>>>
> [...]
>>>
>>> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
>>> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
>>
>> I suggest installing the xcode package from the original
>> installation DVS, then pick up the on-line update. I think the
>> one must sign up to Apple's free developer program to get to the
>> on-line updates.
>>
>
> The MacBook that I just purchased does *not* have a DVD with Xcode on
> it, contrary to years of queried, historical postings to the contrary.
> This was confirmed with an 800-apple-techie conversation last week.
All
> Xcode must now be downloaded from the net. It's chugging away as I
> type...
Since I tend to keep updating old machines (e.g. the Titanium
Powerbook) all my experience is with purchased OS packages, not
with new machines running Leopard :-).
>> The update includes fixes to gcc that caused gnu-tar to fail
>> building, but I don't remember the exact details.
>
> gcc(1) isn't *broken*, it's *missing*!!!. (That's just one of many
> other tools that cpan(1) looks for -- make(1), lynx(1), wget(1),
> ncftp(1), gpg(1)). I expect that Xcode will solve that, too.
Some of them certainly, but you may also want to look at macports
or fink. As I understand it, macports works like FreeBSD ports,
building packages from source while fink primarily provides
binary packages.
When I started building the OpenPKG system on my PPC leopard box,
and found Apple's gcc broken, I first built gcc from macports,
then bootstrapped OpenPKG with that. Shortly after that I found
the Xcode update, and restarted using that.
Bill
--
INTERNET: bill at celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax: (206) 232-9186
Good luck to all you optimists out there who think Microsoft can deliver
35 million lines of quality code on which you can operate your business.
-- John C. Dvorak
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 23:42:34 -0800
From: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
Subject: Re: SPUG: perldoc failures on OS X
To: Andrew Sweger <andrew at sweger.net>
Cc: spug-list at pm.org
Message-ID: <FC5F9F68-D7E0-460E-9C0D-0432737B1C5D at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Andrew Sweger wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Dec 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>
>> Since my old #1 problem (no portable computing) is solved, a new #1
>> problem has emerged: perldoc(1) is installed, but doesn't work.
>>
>> $ perldoc perl
>> No documentation found for "perl".
>>
>> Look familiar? Is this a Perl or OS X issue?
>
> It *should* be there, I think. It works fine for me. But I have the
> developer tools (Xcode) installed, so I'm not sure where the files
> come
> from. "perldoc -l perl" on my Mac reports:
>
> /System/Library/Perl/5.8.8/pods/perl.pod
>
Thanks. It was *not* there prior to installing Xcode, but showed up
at the same location after installing Xcode.
> (What's the OS X equivelant of Debian's dpkg -S /some/file?)
>
I don't know yet, but I will soon.
Michael R. Wolf
MichaelRWolf at att.net
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
spug-list mailing list
spug-list at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
End of spug-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 2
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From cmeyer at helvella.org Thu Dec 11 13:38:40 2008
From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:38:40 -0800
Subject: SPUG: December 2008 Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting
Message-ID: <20081211213839.GM1899@infula.helvella.org>
December 2008 Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting
====================================================
Topic: Greased Lightning
Speaker: You
Meeting Date: Tuesday, 16 December 2008
Meeting Time: 6:30 - 8:30 p.m.
Location: Marchex - 4th & Pine
Cost: Admission is free and open to the public
Info: http://seattleperl.org/
====================================================
Tuesday, December 16, is the next meeting of the THE SEATTLE
PERL USERS GROUP.
Lightning talks: there will be a series of five minute lightning
talks, during which the speaker will present something that they've
done with Perl during the last year.
Example Topics:
. Gryphon Shafer: I'll do a lightning talk. I expect each of you to do one also.
. Colin Meyer: Data::FormValidator is a neat module.
The esteemed speaker this month is you, who we are all excited to
hear a talk from. Sure, we're dissapointed that it's a short, five
minute talk, but really, we're glad for the time we do get.
Pre-Meeting
================
If you are so inclined, please come to the pre-meeting at the Elephant &
Castle pub on 5th & Union. We'll be there from 5-6:19PM.
Meeting Location
================
Pizza and Beer will be provided at the meeting.
Marchex
413 Pine St, Suite 500
Seattle, WA 98101
Contact: Jackie Wolfstone - 206-491-8072
The building is just south of Westlake Center. Enter on 4th Avenue, near
Pine street. The entry is near the Dog In The Park hotdog stand.
http://www.baylis.org/static/marchex.png
Due to all of the shopping around us there is plenty of parking
available in garages, but it can be hard to find street parking in
the evening.
See you there!
From ryanc at greengrey.org Thu Dec 11 17:08:35 2008
From: ryanc at greengrey.org (Ryan Corder)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:08:35 -0800
Subject: SPUG: December 2008 Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20081211213839.GM1899@infula.helvella.org>
References: <20081211213839.GM1899@infula.helvella.org>
Message-ID: <20081212010835.GB29013@greengrey.org>
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 01:38:40PM -0800, Colin Meyer wrote:
| Lightning talks: there will be a series of five minute lightning
| talks, during which the speaker will present something that they've
| done with Perl during the last year.
|
| Example Topics:
|
| . Gryphon Shafer: I'll do a lightning talk. I expect each of you to do one also.
|
| . Colin Meyer: Data::FormValidator is a neat module.
Do we need to pre-announce, or just show up with a topic?
From choward at indicium.us Fri Dec 12 01:05:53 2008
From: choward at indicium.us (Christopher Howard)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:05:53 -0900 (AKST)
Subject: SPUG: Perl CGI session authentication
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812112349401.14741@watson.localdomain>
Hi. I'm about to code the admin interface for this little music database
web app I'm working on. I need to decide how I want to handle the
authentication for the admin who logs in. In the past I've used .htaccess
files for httpd authentication, but I was thinking I would like to do
authentication with CGI this time. That is, sending the password over CGI,
then having a session ID generated, storing a session ID in a cookie, and that
sort of thing.
Is there any cool modules or packages which make that sort of thing fairly
easy? Most of it doesn't sound too hard... however, keeping track of the
sessions and session IDs sounds kind of complicated.
I didn't want anything real complicated... But I've seen Perl blog
software like Moveable Type, which stores the
password in a config file, and doesn't utilize .htaccess-style
authentication. (I'm trying to look through the Moveable Type code to see
how they do it, but their code is pretty complicated and I haven't even
figured out where to look yet.)
I've done a fair amount of googling, but I'm having trouble narrowing down
the search to what I'm looking for.
--
Christopher Howard
choward at indicium.us
http://www.indicium.us
From cmeyer at helvella.org Fri Dec 12 06:53:12 2008
From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:53:12 -0800
Subject: SPUG: December 2008 Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20081212010835.GB29013@greengrey.org>
References: <20081211213839.GM1899@infula.helvella.org>
<20081212010835.GB29013@greengrey.org>
Message-ID: <20081212145312.GB13368@infula.helvella.org>
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 05:08:35PM -0800, Ryan Corder wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 01:38:40PM -0800, Colin Meyer wrote:
> | Lightning talks: there will be a series of five minute lightning
> | talks, during which the speaker will present something that they've
> | done with Perl during the last year.
> |
> | Example Topics:
> |
> | . Gryphon Shafer: I'll do a lightning talk. I expect each of you to do one also.
> |
> | . Colin Meyer: Data::FormValidator is a neat module.
>
> Do we need to pre-announce, or just show up with a topic?
Please send a note with your topic to Gryphon Shafer <gryphon.shafer at gmail.com>,
if you have enough planning and foresight to be able to. If you don't manage to
register in advance, it's unlikely that you'll be turned down for a talk, especially
if the audience still has tomatoes.
-Colin.
From cmeyer at helvella.org Fri Dec 12 08:04:54 2008
From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:04:54 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Perl CGI session authentication
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812112349401.14741@watson.localdomain>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812112349401.14741@watson.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20081212160454.GB12672@infula.helvella.org>
I'd suggest looking to your web application framework for this
functionality.
I use Catalyst. To achieve user login with expiring sessions, you need
three plugins: Authentication, Authentication::Store::DBIx::Class and
Session. It is fairly easy to configure everything. This takes care of
everything, including authenticating credentials against a database,
maintaining the session cookie and server side state data. The basics
are spelled out in the Catalyst manual:
http://search.cpan.org/~rjbs/Catalyst-Manual-5.7014/lib/Catalyst/Manual/Tutorial/Authentication.pod
There are similar plugins for the other popular web app frameworks.
-Colin.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:05:53AM -0900, Christopher Howard wrote:
> Hi. I'm about to code the admin interface for this little music database
> web app I'm working on. I need to decide how I want to handle the
> authentication for the admin who logs in. In the past I've used .htaccess
> files for httpd authentication, but I was thinking I would like to do
> authentication with CGI this time. That is, sending the password over CGI,
> then having a session ID generated, storing a session ID in a cookie, and
> that sort of thing.
>
> Is there any cool modules or packages which make that sort of thing fairly
> easy? Most of it doesn't sound too hard... however, keeping track of the
> sessions and session IDs sounds kind of complicated.
>
> I didn't want anything real complicated... But I've seen Perl blog
> software like Moveable Type, which stores the
> password in a config file, and doesn't utilize .htaccess-style
> authentication. (I'm trying to look through the Moveable Type code to see
> how they do it, but their code is pretty complicated and I haven't even
> figured out where to look yet.)
>
> I've done a fair amount of googling, but I'm having trouble narrowing down
> the search to what I'm looking for.
>
> --
> Christopher Howard
> choward at indicium.us
> http://www.indicium.us
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
From breno at rio.pm.org Fri Dec 12 04:06:52 2008
From: breno at rio.pm.org (breno)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:06:52 -0200
Subject: SPUG: Perl CGI session authentication
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812112349401.14741@watson.localdomain>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812112349401.14741@watson.localdomain>
Message-ID: <bbea248f0812120406v43f2db2anee2dea13df6a5456@mail.gmail.com>
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Christopher Howard <choward at indicium.us> wrote:
> Hi. I'm about to code the admin interface for this little music database web
> app I'm working on. I need to decide how I want to handle the authentication
> for the admin who logs in. In the past I've used .htaccess files for httpd
> authentication, but I was thinking I would like to do authentication with
> CGI this time. That is, sending the password over CGI, then having a session
> ID generated, storing a session ID in a cookie, and that sort of thing.
>
> Is there any cool modules or packages which make that sort of thing fairly
> easy? Most of it doesn't sound too hard... however, keeping track of the
> sessions and session IDs sounds kind of complicated.
>
> I didn't want anything real complicated... But I've seen Perl blog software
> like Moveable Type, which stores the password in a config file, and doesn't
> utilize .htaccess-style authentication. (I'm trying to look through the
> Moveable Type code to see how they do it, but their code is pretty
> complicated and I haven't even figured out where to look yet.)
>
> I've done a fair amount of googling, but I'm having trouble narrowing down
> the search to what I'm looking for.
>
When looking for nice Perl modules, you should try CPAN instead of google ;-)
I believe CGI::Session might be what you want, or the higher-level
CGI::Session::Auth. You should also check CGI::Auth out. (just so you
know, I haven't actually tested any of those).
Cheers,
-b
From gryphon.shafer at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 08:22:41 2008
From: gryphon.shafer at gmail.com (Gryphon Shafer)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:22:41 -0800
Subject: SPUG: December 2008 Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20081212145312.GB13368@infula.helvella.org>
References: <20081211213839.GM1899@infula.helvella.org>
<20081212010835.GB29013@greengrey.org>
<20081212145312.GB13368@infula.helvella.org>
Message-ID: <45b837a10812120822h58f9c228ie8a175dca783d3d@mail.gmail.com>
Anybody giving a lightning talk is eligible to enter a drawing for two
passes to see a special screening of Valkyrie on Wed, Dec 17 at 7pm.
(The screening will be at Lincoln Square in Bellevue.)
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 6:53 AM, Colin Meyer <cmeyer at helvella.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 05:08:35PM -0800, Ryan Corder wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 01:38:40PM -0800, Colin Meyer wrote:
>> | Lightning talks: there will be a series of five minute lightning
>> | talks, during which the speaker will present something that they've
>> | done with Perl during the last year.
>> |
>> | Example Topics:
>> |
>> | . Gryphon Shafer: I'll do a lightning talk. I expect each of you to do one also.
>> |
>> | . Colin Meyer: Data::FormValidator is a neat module.
>>
>> Do we need to pre-announce, or just show up with a topic?
>
> Please send a note with your topic to Gryphon Shafer <gryphon.shafer at gmail.com>,
> if you have enough planning and foresight to be able to. If you don't manage to
> register in advance, it's unlikely that you'll be turned down for a talk, especially
> if the audience still has tomatoes.
>
> -Colin.
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>
From tyemq at cpan.org Sat Dec 13 00:06:16 2008
From: tyemq at cpan.org (Tye McQueen)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:06:16 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Perl CGI session authentication
In-Reply-To: <bbea248f0812120406v43f2db2anee2dea13df6a5456@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812112349401.14741@watson.localdomain>
<bbea248f0812120406v43f2db2anee2dea13df6a5456@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f57370570812130006g7c752714p9607145ffdbe1e9a@mail.gmail.com>
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 4:06 AM, breno <breno at rio.pm.org> wrote:
> When looking for nice Perl modules, you should try CPAN instead of google
> ;-)
>
I somewhat disagree. At least one of the search methods on
search.cpan.orgis amazingly bad. If I have a CPAN module search that
uses more than a
single keyword, I tend to have better luck with feeding google "site:
search.cpan.org ...".
For example, consider looking for a module that does permutations but can
handle duplicates.
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Asearch.cpan.org+permutations+duplicates
has the very first hit being exactly what we are looking for and this is
clear from the snippet of text shown for the hit. Compare
http://search.cpan.org/search?query=permutations+duplicates&mode=module
which doesn't even list the module that mentions both of those terms (it
instead lists all module that mention /either/ term in their names)
http://search.cpan.org/search?query=permutations+duplicates&mode=all
comes closer but lacks the snippets that show the context of how the search
terms are used in the matched documents and so it is not easy to tell if any
of the matches are actually what you are looking for, and is missing a ton
of matches that google found. My experience is also that goole does a
better job of sorting such results.
Tye
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From tim at consultix-inc.com Sat Dec 13 23:12:54 2008
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 23:12:54 -0800
Subject: SPUG: December 2008 Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting
In-Reply-To: <45b837a10812120822h58f9c228ie8a175dca783d3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081211213839.GM1899@infula.helvella.org>
<20081212010835.GB29013@greengrey.org>
<20081212145312.GB13368@infula.helvella.org>
<45b837a10812120822h58f9c228ie8a175dca783d3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081214071254.GA1263@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
What's the date for the meeting?
Tim
*----------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD (206) 781-UNIX http://www.consultix-inc.com |
| tim at ( TeachMePerl, TeachMeLinux, or TeachMeUnix ) dot Com |
| * * CLASSES! 12/15-12/19: Perl Programming, Modules, & CGI * * |
*-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
| > "Minimal Perl for UNIX People" has been an Amazon Best Seller! < |
| * Download chapters, read reviews, and order at: MinimalPerl.com * |
*----------------------------------------------------------------------*
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 08:22:41AM -0800, Gryphon Shafer wrote:
> Anybody giving a lightning talk is eligible to enter a drawing for two
> passes to see a special screening of Valkyrie on Wed, Dec 17 at 7pm.
> (The screening will be at Lincoln Square in Bellevue.)
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 6:53 AM, Colin Meyer <cmeyer at helvella.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 05:08:35PM -0800, Ryan Corder wrote:
> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 01:38:40PM -0800, Colin Meyer wrote:
> >> | Lightning talks: there will be a series of five minute lightning
> >> | talks, during which the speaker will present something that they've
> >> | done with Perl during the last year.
> >> |
> >> | Example Topics:
> >> |
> >> | . Gryphon Shafer: I'll do a lightning talk. I expect each of you to do one also.
> >> |
> >> | . Colin Meyer: Data::FormValidator is a neat module.
> >>
> >> Do we need to pre-announce, or just show up with a topic?
> >
> > Please send a note with your topic to Gryphon Shafer <gryphon.shafer at gmail.com>,
> > if you have enough planning and foresight to be able to. If you don't manage to
> > register in advance, it's unlikely that you'll be turned down for a talk, especially
> > if the audience still has tomatoes.
> >
> > -Colin.
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
> > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
> > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
> >
From cmeyer at helvella.org Sat Dec 13 23:54:42 2008
From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 23:54:42 -0800
Subject: SPUG: December 2008 Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20081214071254.GA1263@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20081211213839.GM1899@infula.helvella.org>
<20081212010835.GB29013@greengrey.org>
<20081212145312.GB13368@infula.helvella.org>
<45b837a10812120822h58f9c228ie8a175dca783d3d@mail.gmail.com>
<20081214071254.GA1263@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <20081214075442.GA28466@infula.helvella.org>
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:12:54PM -0800, Tim Maher wrote:
> What's the date for the meeting?
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 01:38:40PM -0800, Colin Meyer wrote:
> December 2008 Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting
> ====================================================
>
> Topic: Greased Lightning
> Speaker: You
> Meeting Date: Tuesday, 16 December 2008
> Meeting Time: 6:30 - 8:30 p.m.
> Location: Marchex - 4th & Pine
>
> Cost: Admission is free and open to the public
> Info: http://seattleperl.org/
>
> ====================================================
>
> Tuesday, December 16, is the next meeting of the THE SEATTLE
> PERL USERS GROUP.
>
From andrew at sweger.net Sun Dec 14 02:46:36 2008
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 02:46:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: December 2008 Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20081214071254.GA1263@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0812140240150.1779-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Maybe I've had too much egg nog, but I can't believe you of all people are
asking what day the SPUG meeting is. Who would dare change it? The mind
boggles. This is not some fly-by-night operation, sir.
"Is this a test.... sir?"
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Tim Maher wrote:
> What's the date for the meeting?
>
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 08:22:41AM -0800, Gryphon Shafer wrote:
> > Anybody giving a lightning talk is eligible to enter a drawing for two
> > passes to see a special screening of Valkyrie on Wed, Dec 17 at 7pm.
> > (The screening will be at Lincoln Square in Bellevue.)
--
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
things can go wrong at once.
From choward at indicium.us Mon Dec 15 17:49:58 2008
From: choward at indicium.us (Christopher Howard)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:49:58 -0900 (AKST)
Subject: SPUG: Console auto-completion
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812151634160.15741@omega.arsc.edu>
Thanks everybody for the help with CGI sessions. I'm implementing
CGI::Session now, and it seems to be very easy to use.
And now, just when you thought you'd have some peace and quiet, here's
another question for you:
Any of you guys worked with implementing auto-completion in Perl
(bash-style)? I'm coding this console-based program at work, and there is
is one section of the program where the user has to input the name of the
directory where the file changes need to be made. It'd be /really/ cool if
I could get the program to autocomplete the rest of the directory name when
the user presses tab or something.
I'm currently looking at Term::ReadLine and Term::Complete, but I was
curious for your thoughts, suggestions, and such like.
--
Christopher Howard
choward at indicium.us
http://www.indicium.us
From jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org Fri Dec 19 15:37:51 2008
From: jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org (SPUG Jobs)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:37:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: JOB: Perl dev, Cascadia Labs, Seattle
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0812191535020.1779-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Experienced Perl Application Developer
--------------------------------------
Cascadia Labs [1] is seeking a seasoned Perl developer for contractor work
creating new applications and adding new features to its existing
applications used for security and URL Filtering tests. Developer must be
able to deliver real applications, not just utility or CGI scripts. We
have built automated systems and scripts to perform tasks such as test
corpus development, endpoint infection detection, automated testing, and
automated analysis.
Candidate should have the following skills:
* Experience with building Perl applications
* Experience with Web apps and CGI (Apache)
* database design and SQL - we use MySQL
* knowledge of Web, e-mail, NNTP, search engines
We are seeking someone in the Seattle area who can join us in the office
for occasional design and brainstorming sessions. We need someone who is
extremely professional, organized, and able to communicate in clear
language with business and technical people.
Expected Duration: 80-100 hours over next 4 weeks; ongoing work likely
Pay range: $40-65/hour
Please send e-mail and resume to Rob Lipschutz at rob [at] cascadialabs.com
[1] - http://www.cascadialabs.com/
From sthoenna at efn.org Mon Dec 22 00:25:05 2008
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:25:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: Perl 5 now uses Git for version control
Message-ID: <46338.97.113.92.123.1229934305.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
HOLLAND, Michigan - The Perl Foundation has migrated Perl 5 to the Git
version control system, making it easier than ever for Perl's development
team to continue to improve the language that powers many websites.
Moving from Perforce to git provides a number of benefits to the Perl
community:
- With a public repository and Git's extensive support for distributed
and offline work, working on Perl 5's source becomes easier for everyone
involved.
- Because Git is open source, all developers now have equal access to
the tools required to work on Perl's codebase.
- Core committers have less administrative work to do when integrating
contributed changes.
- Developers outside the core team can more easily work on experimental
changes to Perl before proposing them for inclusion in the next release.
- A vast array of improved repository and change analysis tools are now
available to Perl's developers.
- The new Git repository includes every version of Perl 5 ever released,
as well as every revision made during development.
Interested developers can get a copy of the Perl 5 Git repository at
at http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git
In true open source style, Sam Vilain converted Perl's history from
Perforce to Git. He did the work both in his spare time and in time
donated by his employer, Catalyst IT. He spent more than a year building
custom tools to transform 21 years of Perl history into the first
ever unified repository of every single change to Perl. In addition
to changes from Perforce, Sam patched together a comprehensive view
of Perl's history incorporating publicly available snapshot releases,
changes from historical mailing list archives and patch sets recovered
from the hard drives of previous Perl release engineers.
Perl 5 is used by businesses around the world including the BBC,
Amazon.com, LiveJournal, Ticketmaster, Craigslist and IMDb. Larry Wall
created Perl in 1987 while working as a systems administrator for NASA.
Larry released Perl 1.000 on December 18th 1987. Over the past 21 years,
Perl has grown into a high-level, general-purpose, dynamic programming
language and is widely used for Web development, Systems Administration,
Genomics and in many other disciplines. The most recent major version
of Perl 5 (5.10.0) was released one year ago.
Git is an open source version control system designed to handle very
large projects with speed and efficiency. Created by Linus Torvalds,
the inventor of Linux to handle the vast number of contributions to
the Linux Kernel, Git is highly flexible and extensible. Perl's motto,
"There's More Than One Way To Do It!" perfectly matches the Git workflow.
Nicholas Clark, the manager for Perl 5.8.9 which was released this week,
said "I'm looking forward to Git giving me the ability to work either
online or offline. Perforce is great when I have a network connection,
but until now those times when I've been trying to develop on trains
or planes, at stations or airports, I'm back in the 'dark ages' before
version control. Git solves this problem and more".
The hardware behind this and the systems administration time to maintain
it is donated by Booking.com. Booking.com has also recently donated
$50,000 to The Perl Foundation, to aid in the further development and
maintenance of the Perl programming language in general, and Perl 5.10
in particular.
Perl originally used the Revision Control System (RCS) until March
1997 when it switched to the Perforce Software Configuration Management
System. The Perforce repository was graciously hosted and maintained,
free of charge, by ActiveState. Perforce provided the core developers
with powerful tools, but these tools were not available to users outside
the core team. The switch to Git removes this barrier.
About The Perl Foundation (http://www.perlfoundation.org/) | The Perl
Foundation is dedicated to the advancement of the Perl programming
language through open discussion, collaboration, design, and code. The
Perl Foundation coordinates the efforts of numerous grass-roots Perl-based
groups, including: International Yet Another Perl Conferences (YAPC's),
Carries the legal responsibility for Perl 5 and Perl 6 and the Artistic
and Artistic 2.0 licenses, perl.org, Perl Mongers, and PerlMonks.
About Booking.com (http://www.booking.com/) | Booking.com is part of
Priceline.com (Nasdaq: PCLN). Its website attracts an average of 30
million unique visitors each month. Booking.com works with more than
57,000 affiliated hotels in 15,000 destinations around the world. Its
services are available in 21 languages. Booking.com currently has 24
offices in Amsterdam, Athens, Barcelona, Berlin, Cambridge, Cape Town,
Dubai, Dublin, London, Loul? (Portugal), Lyon, Madrid, Moscow, Munich,
New York, Orlando, Paris, Rome, San Francisco, Sydney, Singapore,
Stockholm, Vienna and Warsaw.
About Catalyst IT (NZ) Ltd (http://www.catalyst.net.nz/) | Catalyst IT
is New Zealand's premiere Open Source development house. Catalyst looks
after the development requirements for the NZ Electoral Enrolment Centre,
manage the .NZ registry, the largest NZ newspaper's online presence,
the NZ TAB and many other exciting projects, and are organising the 2010
Australasian Linux Conference to be held in Wellington, New Zealand.
From MichaelRWolf at att.net Mon Dec 22 18:52:17 2008
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:52:17 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Chained comparisons in Perl 6
Message-ID: <C722CFF5-F470-4C45-8952-A474ADC32F4B@att.net>
At last week's meeting, there was a question about code like this:
if ($left < $middle < $right) { ... }
This is *not* legal Perl5 since the comparison operators are non-
associative (contrary to my side comment at the time). It will cause
a compile error in Perl5, and must be written as.
if ($left < $middle && $middle < $right) { ... }
For those who are interested in the nitty-gritty, search for "Chained
comparisons" in this Perl6 "Spec" (FKA "Synopsis") on "Perl Operators".
http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S03.html
Or "perldoc perlop" in Perl5.
Michael R. Wolf
All mammals learn by playing!
MichaelRWolf at att.net
From michaelrwolf at att.net Tue Dec 23 22:51:12 2008
From: michaelrwolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:51:12 -0800
Subject: SPUG: cpan errors on OS X
Message-ID: <BA5483AF-3EA4-4702-A125-FF6EFBEE019B@att.net>
I've got a question (fish) and a meta-question (how to fish).
how to fish -- Is there a better forum than SPUG to be having newbie
OS X discussions regarding my not-newbie Perl knowledge?
fish -- On many (not all) modules, I'm getting "No such file or
directory" errors when using cpan(1) to install CPAN modules. For
example:
$ cpan File::Path
[...]
t/taint....Can't open perl script ""-I/Users/michael/Library/
Application Support/.cpan/build/File-Path-2.07-oawBVl/blib/lib"": No
such file or directory
$ cpan HTML::Tree
[...]
t/00system..........Can't open perl script ""-I/Users/michael/Library/
Application Support/.cpan/build/HTML-Tree-3.23-6Yp3PK/blib/lib"": No
such file or directory
Seems that there's a randomized part of the path between the
distribution and '/blib/lib'. Not sure if that's significant. Any
ideas?
Both example modules seem to be "in the green" on CPAN Testers:
http://bbbike.radzeit.de/~slaven/cpantestersmatrix.cgi?dist=File-Path;maxver=;reports=1;os=darwin;perl=5.10.0
http://bbbike.radzeit.de/~slaven/cpantestersmatrix.cgi?dist=HTML%3A%3ATree;maxver=;reports=1;os=darwin;sort=osvers;sort=action
So, I guess it's *me*, not the module.
Ideas on the fish or how-to-fish?
Michael R. Wolf
All mammals learn by playing!
MichaelRWolf at att.net
From bill at celestial.com Tue Dec 23 22:59:19 2008
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:59:19 -0800
Subject: SPUG: cpan errors on OS X
In-Reply-To: <BA5483AF-3EA4-4702-A125-FF6EFBEE019B@att.net>
References: <BA5483AF-3EA4-4702-A125-FF6EFBEE019B@att.net>
Message-ID: <20081224065919.GA22452@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
> I've got a question (fish) and a meta-question (how to fish).
>
> how to fish -- Is there a better forum than SPUG to be having newbie OS X
> discussions regarding my not-newbie Perl knowledge?
There is a list, Unix-porting at lists.apple.com, that covers
various porting and development issues. It's been a while, but I
think subscription is done through the apple.com web site.
All the CPAN modules I've built on OS X have been done using the
OpenPKG portable packaging system which has its own perl and
other packages.
BTW: (OT) is the SLL ssc.com linux list dead? I have not seen
any traffic on it in a while.
Bill
--
INTERNET: bill at celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax: (206) 232-9186
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are
men who want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean
without the roar of its many waters. -- Frederick Douglass
From nick-list at dytara.com Tue Dec 23 23:33:04 2008
From: nick-list at dytara.com (Nicholas Melnick)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:33:04 -0600
Subject: SPUG: cpan errors on OS X
In-Reply-To: <BA5483AF-3EA4-4702-A125-FF6EFBEE019B@att.net>
References: <BA5483AF-3EA4-4702-A125-FF6EFBEE019B@att.net>
Message-ID: <E95DF934-C2FD-4537-85BA-7C3B3ABDCC57@dytara.com>
Michael,
I'd recommend changing your .cpan directory to your home directory or
another directory without a space. Perl deals with it just fine, but
most developers don't seem to care much for dealing with spaces in
paths. This may solve the issue for you.
- Nick
On Dec 24, 2008, at 12:51 AM, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
> fish -- On many (not all) modules, I'm getting "No such file or
> directory" errors when using cpan(1) to install CPAN modules. For
> example:
From MichaelRWolf at att.net Wed Dec 24 00:25:00 2008
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:25:00 -0800
Subject: SPUG: cpan errors on OS X
In-Reply-To: <E95DF934-C2FD-4537-85BA-7C3B3ABDCC57@dytara.com>
References: <BA5483AF-3EA4-4702-A125-FF6EFBEE019B@att.net>
<E95DF934-C2FD-4537-85BA-7C3B3ABDCC57@dytara.com>
Message-ID: <329C47D4-6CD0-40DC-A2FD-2D9599CE98AC@att.net>
On Dec 23, 2008, at 11:33 PM, Nicholas Melnick wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I'd recommend changing your .cpan directory to your home directory
> or another directory without a space. Perl deals with it just fine,
> but most developers don't seem to care much for dealing with spaces
> in paths. This may solve the issue for you.
That did the trick! Thanks for the suggestion. You're right, *this*
developer was severely disappointed to find OS X directories with
spaces in them, but I tried to take the defaults in the cpan init, not
wanting to mess around with the heavy fu that's in the cpan script.
Oh well. I guess I get it how I wanted it in the first place.
Thanks for the suggestion.
P.S. There are 2 .cpan directories. Seems that cpan(1) still needs
to look in '/Users/michael/Library/Application Support/.cpan/CPAN/
MyConfig.pm', but that config file can direct cpan(1) to '/Users/
michael/.cpan' as the cpan_home (e.g. build_dir, histfile,
keep_sources_where, and prefs_dir).
There's More Than One Way To Disambiguate It (for the see-pan
pronunciation of 'it')--
CPAN - the community/code concept,
CPAN.pm - the module,
http://www.cpan.org - the site,
cpan(1) - the program,
~/.cpan, - the cpan_home config parameter to CPAN.pm, as used by cpan(1)
~/Library/Application Support/.cpan - where cpan(1) looks for .cpan/CPAN
~/Library/Application Support/.cpan/CPAN - where cpan(1) looks for
MyConfig.pm
I think I've got is set for another 5 years....
Michael R. Wolf
All mammals learn by playing!
MichaelRWolf at att.net
From tyemq at cpan.org Wed Dec 24 16:21:10 2008
From: tyemq at cpan.org (Tye McQueen)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:21:10 -0800
Subject: SPUG: cpan errors on OS X
In-Reply-To: <BA5483AF-3EA4-4702-A125-FF6EFBEE019B@att.net>
References: <BA5483AF-3EA4-4702-A125-FF6EFBEE019B@att.net>
Message-ID: <f57370570812241621p5219d32cib56e3e2888516b94@mail.gmail.com>
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 10:51 PM, Michael R. Wolf <michaelrwolf at att.net>wrote:
> t/taint....Can't open perl script ""-I/Users/michael/Library/Application
> Support/.cpan/build/File-Path-2.07-oawBVl/blib/lib"": No such file or
> directory
>
It looks like the argument gets enclosed in double quotes because of the
space in the path name. But Perl is seeing an argument with the quotes
included and so the quotes are preventing the (no-longer) leading -I from
being recognized as indicating an option (instead of a script filename). It
smells like some Win32-handling code being used when real exec() is
available (since OS X is Unix-based)?
As for your fishing question, I'd go to
http://www.perlmonks.org/?node=SoPWfor such questions. We don't get a
ton of OS X questions, but we certainly
have several regulars who use OS X, and I'd appreciate learning more about
OS X by virtue of reading more discussions about using Perl on it.
Tye
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From jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org Thu Dec 25 12:13:42 2008
From: jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org (SPUG Jobs)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:13:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: JOB: Web Crawler developer, telecommute
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0812251212020.1779-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Company - Colligent.com:
We are a startup based in Bellevue, WA. We are a market research company
built around publicly available consumer information in social networks
(MySpace, Facebook, YouTube). Our clients are music labels, radio
stations, and brands. Our research was used to market the latest Bob Dylan
album, Jonas Brothers, Kings of Leon and numerous other artists.
Job Description
We have 3 major crawlers for each of the social networks, all in Perl.
Some of it need to be evolved and maintained. This will initially be a
contract job with potential to convert to full time. The initial contract
period is Jan-Mar 09. The expected pay range is $40-$75 per hour
commensurate with experience and productivity. The position is directly
with the company on 1099. Though the company is based in Bellevue,
telecommuting is the preferred mode of work with periodic meetings
(in-person if in Seattle area or on phone).
Interested candidates can contact me (Sree Nagarajan) via email
(sree at colligent.com) or phone 425 891 7501.
From twists at gmail.com Sun Dec 28 10:43:41 2008
From: twists at gmail.com (Joshua ben Jore)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:43:41 -0800
Subject: SPUG: cpan errors on OS X
In-Reply-To: <329C47D4-6CD0-40DC-A2FD-2D9599CE98AC@att.net>
References: <BA5483AF-3EA4-4702-A125-FF6EFBEE019B@att.net>
<E95DF934-C2FD-4537-85BA-7C3B3ABDCC57@dytara.com>
<329C47D4-6CD0-40DC-A2FD-2D9599CE98AC@att.net>
Message-ID: <dc5c751d0812281043s765e5f79yda039873cf0310fc@mail.gmail.com>
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Michael R. Wolf <MichaelRWolf at att.net> wrote:
>
> On Dec 23, 2008, at 11:33 PM, Nicholas Melnick wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> I'd recommend changing your .cpan directory to your home directory or
>> another directory without a space. Perl deals with it just fine, but most
>> developers don't seem to care much for dealing with spaces in paths. This
>> may solve the issue for you.
>
>
> That did the trick! Thanks for the suggestion. You're right, *this*
> developer was severely disappointed to find OS X directories with spaces in
> them, but I tried to take the defaults in the cpan init, not wanting to mess
> around with the heavy fu that's in the cpan script. Oh well. I guess I get
> it how I wanted it in the first place.
The same thing happened to me when I installed Bundle::CPANxxl. I
think it was a side effect of File::HomeDir's installation - now CPAN
knew a "better" place to put things.
Josh
From MichaelRWolf at att.net Sun Dec 28 18:22:00 2008
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 18:22:00 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Test::More::ok() not inverting logic with local $TODO
Message-ID: <EAEB9C42-0066-4D54-88E3-A15ADC56014E@att.net>
This behaves passes (i.e. outputs 'ok') with perl(1) and prove(1),
regardless of whether the commented lines are enabled. !!!
#! /usr/bin/perl
use Test::More tests => 1;
#TODO: {
# local $TODO = 'Learn math';
ok( 1, 'Learn the basics');
#}
I was expecting that TODO blocks would fail on success. What am I
missing?
Michael R. Wolf
All mammals learn by playing!
MichaelRWolf at att.net
From chris.raplee at gmail.com Mon Dec 29 12:17:24 2008
From: chris.raplee at gmail.com (Chris Raplee)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:17:24 -0800
Subject: SPUG: spug-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1230580827.15253.spug-list@pm.org>
References: <mailman.7.1230580827.15253.spug-list@pm.org>
Message-ID: <e0cb64f30812291217m6fc7d0f4v366fcee7a3e0beda@mail.gmail.com>
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <spug-list-request at pm.org> wrote:
> From: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
> Subject: SPUG: Test::More::ok() not inverting logic with local $TODO
> To: spug-list at pm.org
> Message-ID: <EAEB9C42-0066-4D54-88E3-A15ADC56014E at att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I was expecting that TODO blocks would fail on success. What am I
> missing?
>
>From http://search.cpan.org/~mschwern/Test-Simple-0.86/lib/Test/More.pm
With a todo block, the tests inside are expected to fail. Test::More will
run the tests normally,
but print out special flags indicating they are "todo". Test::Harness
will interpret failures as being ok.
Should anything succeed, it will report it as an unexpected success. You
then know the thing
you had todo is done and can remove the TODO flag.
So the behavior is expected.
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From choward at indicium.us Mon Dec 29 12:33:05 2008
From: choward at indicium.us (Christopher Howard)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:33:05 -0900 (AKST)
Subject: SPUG: Perl directory permission checks and *nix ACLs
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291128130.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
If any of you have done Perl file permission checks in the context of a
*nix environment, would you take a look at this post I made:
http://www.linux.com/forums/topic/3792
I posted this question to my Linux forum because it seemed like more of a
*nix issue than a Perl-specific issue. But if any of you have
any insight into this, I'd appreciate the help.
--
Christopher Howard
choward at indicium.us
http://www.indicium.us
From ben at reser.org Mon Dec 29 13:20:41 2008
From: ben at reser.org (Ben Reser)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:20:41 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Perl directory permission checks and *nix ACLs
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291128130.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
References: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291128130.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
Message-ID: <af0d3e5c0812291320v6c717736w979f1c521123fd03@mail.gmail.com>
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Christopher Howard
<choward at indicium.us> wrote:
> If any of you have done Perl file permission checks in the context of a *nix
> environment, would you take a look at this post I made:
>
> http://www.linux.com/forums/topic/3792
>
> I posted this question to my Linux forum because it seemed like more of a
> *nix issue than a Perl-specific issue. But if any of you have any insight
> into this, I'd appreciate the help.
I'd say if you're trying to check permissions before an operation
which you are you're doing it wrong.
I'm not sure why you have the idea it saves the program any time by
doing this check in advance.
Permissions/ACLs etc can change at any time. Even if you correctly
determine that your operation
is permitted between your check and your actual operation the
permission can change.
Additionally, trying to do what you're trying to do can introduce
security vulnerabilities into your program.
Race conditions between permission and file existence checks are a
fairly common mistake.
For an explanation of how this can become a security issue see:
http://developer.apple.com/DOCUMENTATION/Security/Conceptual/SecureCodingGuide/Articles/RaceConditions.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002585-SW2
And here's a specific article related to perl on the issue:
http://perltraining.com.au/tips/2005-11-24.html
From ben at reser.org Mon Dec 29 13:24:56 2008
From: ben at reser.org (Ben Reser)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:24:56 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Perl directory permission checks and *nix ACLs
In-Reply-To: <af0d3e5c0812291319v435eb9d5xefadafd5f4bafcfe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291128130.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
<af0d3e5c0812291319v435eb9d5xefadafd5f4bafcfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <af0d3e5c0812291324s3832bbd6j39871bb2efc259b3@mail.gmail.com>
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Ben Reser <ben at reser.org> wrote:
> I'd say if you're trying to check permissions before an operation
> which you are you're doing it wrong.
Bahh really butchered that sentence.
I'd say if you're trying to check permissions before an operation
which you are about to do you're doing it wrong.
From andrew at sweger.net Mon Dec 29 14:26:41 2008
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:26:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: Perl directory permission checks and *nix ACLs
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291128130.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0812291418500.1779-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008, Christopher Howard wrote:
> If any of you have done Perl file permission checks in the context of a
> *nix environment, would you take a look at this post I made:
>
> http://www.linux.com/forums/topic/3792
>
> I posted this question to my Linux forum because it seemed like more of a
> *nix issue than a Perl-specific issue. But if any of you have
> any insight into this, I'd appreciate the help.
You will still need to check for errors after performing any filesystem
operations. That would seem to be the place to check for permission
violations (along with all the other things that can go wrong when working
with the filesystem). That also helps reduce the probability of a race
condition.
> --
> Christopher Howard
> choward at indicium.us
> http://www.indicium.us
By the way, the double-hyphen preceding the signature block is
traditionally followed by a single space.
(Why on earth would I notice this? Because my mail client automatically
trims off the signature block when replying to a message. But it only
does so it if matches /^--\s$/.)
--
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
things can go wrong at once.
From MichaelRWolf at att.net Mon Dec 29 14:29:25 2008
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:29:25 -0800
Subject: SPUG: redux: misunderstanding (or bug) with $Test::More::TODO
Message-ID: <CC303BC3-3249-4EFC-B029-517B129128B3@att.net>
Sorry, all. In my attempt to keep my original posting short, I must
have been too cryptic because I had already tried everything that got
suggested. (Thanks for the replies. Sorry for misleading you).
Let me try again.
I cannot trigger the documented behavior of a TODO block within
Test::More using ok(). To test this, I have created two files.
Contrary to my understanding of the documentation (perldoc
Test::More), I cannot get the two files to behave differently, either
with perl(1) or prove(1). Here is a complete listing of the files,
and the output.
I get an "ok" on the second test, regardless of perl/prove or inside/
outside a TODO block. (I *did* notice that the *comment* was
different, but if it doesn't trigger a different *response* that's
testable, so what?)
I get a 0 return code (indicating success) in all 4 runs (2 files * 2
runs (1 each for perl(1) and prove(1)). I was expecting that the
"success" in a TODO would "report it as an unexpected success". No
dice.
Ideas?
Is TODO broken?
Has anyone really used TODO, and gotten the documented behavior? (I'm
seeming to remember a message from Schwern (a few years ago) that TODO
doesn't really work.)
Thanks (and again, sorry for the too-short previous posting)
Michael
$ nl -ba t_m_trivial.t
1 #! /usr/bin/perl
2
3 use Test::More tests => 2;
4
5 ok(1, 'normal true value 1');
6
7 ok(2, 'normal true value 2');
$ nl -ba t_m_trivial_w_todo.t
1 #! /usr/bin/perl
2
3 use Test::More tests => 2;
4
5 ok(1, 'normal true value 1');
6
7 TODO: {
8 local $TODO = 'understand $Test::More::TODO';
9 ok(2, 'normal true value 2 inside a TODO block');
10 }
$ perl t_m_trivial.t; echo $?
1..2
ok 1 - normal true value 1
ok 2 - normal true value 2
0
$ prove t_m_trivial.t; echo $?
t_m_trivial....ok
All tests successful.
Files=1, Tests=2, 0 wallclock secs ( 0.03 usr 0.00 sys + 0.02 cusr
0.00 csys = 0.05 CPU)
Result: PASS
0
$ perl t_m_trivial_w_todo.t; echo $?
1..2
ok 1 - normal true value 1
ok 2 - normal true value 2 inside a TODO block # TODO understand
$Test::More::TODO
0
$ prove t_m_trivial_w_todo.t; echo $?
t_m_trivial_w_todo....ok
All tests successful.
Test Summary Report
-------------------
t_m_trivial_w_todo (Wstat: 0 Tests: 2 Failed: 0)
TODO passed: 2
Files=1, Tests=2, 0 wallclock secs ( 0.02 usr 0.00 sys + 0.02 cusr
0.00 csys = 0.04 CPU)
Result: PASS
0
$ WTF?
bash: WTF?: command not found
$
Michael R. Wolf
All mammals learn by playing!
MichaelRWolf at att.net
From tyemq at cpan.org Mon Dec 29 16:55:05 2008
From: tyemq at cpan.org (Tye McQueen)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:55:05 -0800
Subject: SPUG: redux: misunderstanding (or bug) with $Test::More::TODO
In-Reply-To: <CC303BC3-3249-4EFC-B029-517B129128B3@att.net>
References: <CC303BC3-3249-4EFC-B029-517B129128B3@att.net>
Message-ID: <f57370570812291655j1bb98a93n527fd6a500fcc0f0@mail.gmail.com>
The difference that is produced and correct, is the addition of:
TODO passed: 2
in the prove output (which is triggered by the correct addition of "# TODO
..." in the perl output).
Tye
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Michael R. Wolf <MichaelRWolf at att.net>wrote:
> Sorry, all. In my attempt to keep my original posting short, I must have
> been too cryptic because I had already tried everything that got suggested.
> (Thanks for the replies. Sorry for misleading you).
>
> Let me try again.
>
> I cannot trigger the documented behavior of a TODO block within Test::More
> using ok(). To test this, I have created two files. Contrary to my
> understanding of the documentation (perldoc Test::More), I cannot get the
> two files to behave differently, either with perl(1) or prove(1). Here is a
> complete listing of the files, and the output.
>
> I get an "ok" on the second test, regardless of perl/prove or
> inside/outside a TODO block. (I *did* notice that the *comment* was
> different, but if it doesn't trigger a different *response* that's testable,
> so what?)
>
> I get a 0 return code (indicating success) in all 4 runs (2 files * 2 runs
> (1 each for perl(1) and prove(1)). I was expecting that the "success" in a
> TODO would "report it as an unexpected success". No dice.
>
> Ideas?
>
> Is TODO broken?
>
> Has anyone really used TODO, and gotten the documented behavior? (I'm
> seeming to remember a message from Schwern (a few years ago) that TODO
> doesn't really work.)
>
> Thanks (and again, sorry for the too-short previous posting)
> Michael
>
> $ nl -ba t_m_trivial.t
> 1 #! /usr/bin/perl
> 2
> 3 use Test::More tests => 2;
> 4
> 5 ok(1, 'normal true value 1');
> 6
> 7 ok(2, 'normal true value 2');
> $ nl -ba t_m_trivial_w_todo.t
> 1 #! /usr/bin/perl
> 2
> 3 use Test::More tests => 2;
> 4
> 5 ok(1, 'normal true value 1');
> 6
> 7 TODO: {
> 8 local $TODO = 'understand $Test::More::TODO';
> 9 ok(2, 'normal true value 2 inside a TODO block');
> 10 }
> $ perl t_m_trivial.t; echo $?
> 1..2
> ok 1 - normal true value 1
> ok 2 - normal true value 2
> 0
> $ prove t_m_trivial.t; echo $?
> t_m_trivial....ok
> All tests successful.
> Files=1, Tests=2, 0 wallclock secs ( 0.03 usr 0.00 sys + 0.02 cusr 0.00
> csys = 0.05 CPU)
> Result: PASS
> 0
> $ perl t_m_trivial_w_todo.t; echo $?
> 1..2
> ok 1 - normal true value 1
> ok 2 - normal true value 2 inside a TODO block # TODO understand
> $Test::More::TODO
> 0
> $ prove t_m_trivial_w_todo.t; echo $?
> t_m_trivial_w_todo....ok
> All tests successful.
>
> Test Summary Report
> -------------------
> t_m_trivial_w_todo (Wstat: 0 Tests: 2 Failed: 0)
> TODO passed: 2
> Files=1, Tests=2, 0 wallclock secs ( 0.02 usr 0.00 sys + 0.02 cusr 0.00
> csys = 0.04 CPU)
> Result: PASS
> 0
> $ WTF?
> bash: WTF?: command not found
> $
>
>
>
> Michael R. Wolf
> All mammals learn by playing!
> MichaelRWolf at att.net
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>
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From mail.spammagnet at gmail.com Mon Dec 29 17:04:48 2008
From: mail.spammagnet at gmail.com (BenRifkah Bergsten-Buret)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:04:48 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Fwd: redux: misunderstanding (or bug) with $Test::More::TODO
In-Reply-To: <f496b1f0812291701r180e649rd8329f5925556cd3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CC303BC3-3249-4EFC-B029-517B129128B3@att.net>
<f496b1f0812291701r180e649rd8329f5925556cd3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f496b1f0812291704o4fccdb37nf81bd06f874756b7@mail.gmail.com>
Whoops. Forgot to include the list.
-- Ben
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: BenRifkah Bergsten-Buret <mail.spammagnet at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: SPUG: redux: misunderstanding (or bug) with $Test::More::TODO
To: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf at att.net>
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Michael R. Wolf <MichaelRWolf at att.net> wrote:
>
> I cannot trigger the documented behavior of a TODO block within Test::More
> using ok(). To test this, I have created two files. Contrary to my
> understanding of the documentation (perldoc Test::More), I cannot get the
> two files to behave differently, either with perl(1) or prove(1). Here is a
> complete listing of the files, and the output.
>
The "prove" output you included below shows that the files DO behave
differently just not in the way you expect. It sounds like you are
expecting something that isn't in the documentation.
> I get an "ok" on the second test, regardless of perl/prove or inside/outside
> a TODO block. (I *did* notice that the *comment* was different, but if it
> doesn't trigger a different *response* that's testable, so what?)
>
This is all as per the documentation. It sounds like you're expecting
a TODO test that passes to say "not ok" but that isn't what the
documentation says. The comment is part of the response and it is
testable because it contains a predictable string when a test is run
through a TODO block. This is precisely how Test::Harness (prove)
detects "unexpected success" for TODO tests.
> I get a 0 return code (indicating success) in all 4 runs (2 files * 2 runs
> (1 each for perl(1) and prove(1)). I was expecting that the "success" in a
> TODO would "report it as an unexpected success". No dice.
>
I'm not sure why you're expecting a different return code for when the
tests in a given script passes or fails. The return code is reserved
to tell you whether there were problems running the script and not
whether tests failed.
> $ perl t_m_trivial.t; echo $?
> 1..2
> ok 1 - normal true value 1
> ok 2 - normal true value 2
> 0
> $ prove t_m_trivial.t; echo $?
> t_m_trivial....ok
> All tests successful.
> Files=1, Tests=2, 0 wallclock secs ( 0.03 usr 0.00 sys + 0.02 cusr 0.00
> csys = 0.05 CPU)
> Result: PASS
> 0
Note that in there is no report on the status of TODO tests in the
above prove output.
> $ perl t_m_trivial_w_todo.t; echo $?
> 1..2
> ok 1 - normal true value 1
> ok 2 - normal true value 2 inside a TODO block # TODO understand
> $Test::More::TODO
> 0
> $ prove t_m_trivial_w_todo.t; echo $?
> t_m_trivial_w_todo....ok
> All tests successful.
>
> Test Summary Report
> -------------------
> t_m_trivial_w_todo (Wstat: 0 Tests: 2 Failed: 0)
> TODO passed: 2
> Files=1, Tests=2, 0 wallclock secs ( 0.02 usr 0.00 sys + 0.02 cusr 0.00
> csys = 0.04 CPU)
> Result: PASS
> 0
Note here that the test summary report contains the "TODO passed: 2"
line. This is the "unexpected success" report that I described in my
response to your initial query. This is hinted at but not described
in the documentation. As I mentioned above the exit statuses included
in these examples are unnecessary and the fact that they all exit 0
shows that the scripts ran to completion.
-- Ben
From choward at indicium.us Mon Dec 29 17:55:01 2008
From: choward at indicium.us (Christopher Howard)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:55:01 -0900 (AKST)
Subject: SPUG: Perl directory permission checks and *nix ACLs
In-Reply-To: <af0d3e5c0812291320v6c717736w979f1c521123fd03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291128130.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
<af0d3e5c0812291320v6c717736w979f1c521123fd03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291644480.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008, Ben Reser wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Christopher Howard
> <choward at indicium.us> wrote:
>> If any of you have done Perl file permission checks in the context of a *nix
>> environment, would you take a look at this post I made:
>>
>> http://www.linux.com/forums/topic/3792
>>
>> I posted this question to my Linux forum because it seemed like more of a
>> *nix issue than a Perl-specific issue. But if any of you have any insight
>> into this, I'd appreciate the help.
>
> I'd say if you're trying to check permissions before an operation
> which you are you're doing it wrong.
> I'm not sure why you have the idea it saves the program any time by
> doing this check in advance.
>
> Permissions/ACLs etc can change at any time. Even if you correctly
> determine that your operation
> is permitted between your check and your actual operation the
> permission can change.
>
> Additionally, trying to do what you're trying to do can introduce
> security vulnerabilities into your program.
> Race conditions between permission and file existence checks are a
> fairly common mistake.
>
> For an explanation of how this can become a security issue see:
> http://developer.apple.com/DOCUMENTATION/Security/Conceptual/SecureCodingGuide/Articles/RaceConditions.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002585-SW2
>
> And here's a specific article related to perl on the issue:
> http://perltraining.com.au/tips/2005-11-24.html
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>
Thanks. I looked at my code again, and it does seem like a lot of the
checks are quite unnecessary. I'm just going to strip them out and rely on
the return values from the attempts.
Side note regarding the signature format issue: I'm more than happy to
oblige, as I think having standard sig formats makes sense. However, is
this convention simply based on the practices of one or two mailers? Or is
there some standards body out that placed its blessing on the
dash-dash-space-return format? If you could give me a reference, it would
be helpful, at least so I'd have something to e-mail my buddy when he asks
why I'm insisting on a certain format.
--
Christopher Howard
choward at indicium.us
http://www.indicium.us
From MichaelRWolf at att.net Mon Dec 29 19:26:31 2008
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:26:31 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Perl directory permission checks and *nix ACLs
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291644480.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
References: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291128130.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
<af0d3e5c0812291320v6c717736w979f1c521123fd03@mail.gmail.com>
<alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291644480.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
Message-ID: <16C487C9-9FEE-4246-9DBD-C9816AEC94D3@att.net>
On Dec 29, 2008, at 5:55 PM, Christopher Howard wrote:
>
>
> Side note regarding the signature format issue: I'm more than happy
> to oblige, as I think having standard sig formats makes sense.
> However, is this convention simply based on the practices of one or
> two mailers? Or is there some standards body out that placed its
> blessing on the dash-dash-space-return format? If you could give me
> a reference, it would be helpful, at least so I'd have something to
> e-mail my buddy when he asks why I'm insisting on a certain format.
>
It's been a "convention" (or possibly Standard) for as long as I can
remember (20+ years), and was enforced for outgoing and incoming
signature processing. I'm guessing that the extra space prevents it
from accidentally colliding with otherwise useful decorations.
Now that Andy pointed it out, I see that my MUA, Mail.app on OS X,
isn't enforcing that convention. Durn. I guess I'll have to do it
myself. I really dislike it when standards are placed on the
shoulders of users instead of the tools they use. Backwards to my
thinking, similar to locks on the outside of a door.
> --
> Christopher Howard
> choward at indicium.us
> http://www.indicium.us
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
Michael R. Wolf
All mammals learn by playing!
MichaelRWolf at att.net
From sthoenna at efn.org Tue Dec 30 00:01:34 2008
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:01:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: redux: misunderstanding (or bug) with $Test::More::TODO
In-Reply-To: <CC303BC3-3249-4EFC-B029-517B129128B3@att.net>
References: <CC303BC3-3249-4EFC-B029-517B129128B3@att.net>
Message-ID: <50397.97.113.117.187.1230624094.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
On Mon, December 29, 2008 2:29 pm, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
> I was expecting that the "success"
> in a TODO would "report it as an unexpected success". No dice.
>
> Is TODO broken?
> Has anyone really used TODO, and gotten the documented behavior?
I haven't read all the thread, but have yet to see what documentation
you are referring to.
TAP::Parser::Aggregator provides a todo_passed count.
I bet a patch to prove to have a switch to treat todo_passed as a
failure would be accepted.
From rjk-spug at tamias.net Tue Dec 30 08:10:02 2008
From: rjk-spug at tamias.net (Ronald J Kimball)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:10:02 -0500
Subject: SPUG: Perl directory permission checks and *nix ACLs
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291644480.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
References: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291128130.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
<af0d3e5c0812291320v6c717736w979f1c521123fd03@mail.gmail.com>
<alpine.LFD.1.10.0812291644480.21811@omega.arsc.edu>
Message-ID: <20081230161002.GA18442@penkwe.pair.com>
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 04:55:01PM -0900, Christopher Howard wrote:
>
> Side note regarding the signature format issue: I'm more than happy to
> oblige, as I think having standard sig formats makes sense. However, is
> this convention simply based on the practices of one or two mailers? Or is
> there some standards body out that placed its blessing on the
> dash-dash-space-return format? If you could give me a reference, it would
> be helpful, at least so I'd have something to e-mail my buddy when he asks
> why I'm insisting on a certain format.
Here are two references for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3676#section-4.3
Ronald
From MichaelRWolf at att.net Tue Dec 30 13:56:43 2008
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:56:43 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Resolved: summary of $Test::More::TODO
Message-ID: <2D8BB852-B90A-4E77-89A9-C9C7A6A6AC99@att.net>
Thank for all the replies (and re-replies).
Short summary:
Test assertions in a TODO block are not *reversed*, they are
*relaxed*.
Longer description:
It turns out I was reading too much into the documentation. I
(mistakenly) believed that everything in a test file is an assertion,
that if violated, would cause the test file to fail, and therefore
return an unsuccessful return code.
I had figured that tests in a TODO block would be *reversed*:
- tests that were expected to fail would pass, and
- tests that "accidently" (i.e. coding for bug fixes or feature
additions) passed would fail, *requiring* developer to move tests
outside the TODO block *immediately* in order to pass
My thinking was INCORRECT. TODO blocks are not so heavy handed.
Rather that thinking TODO blocks being *REVERSED*, I now think of them
as being *RELAXED*.
- all tests add a comment ("# TODO: $TODO") that's recognizable by
prove ().
- failing tests print "not ok", but do *not* cause the test file to
fail
- passing tests print "ok" in perl(1), and cause an additional "TODO
passed" status line, *allowing* developers to move test outside the
TODO block *at their leisure* to remove the extra status line, but
passing either way
That's "what".
So what? Now what?
In my own tests, this doesn't feel like a strong enough assertion.
Looking for the "TODO passed" line is too much work, and since it's
not common, I'm not likely to continue the practice of remaining
diligent to it's arrival.
Although I understand the light-handed approach of the current
behavior, I'd like a different choice. TMTOWTDI-ishly, I'll use the
current behavior when it's appropriate, but I'll also start coding a
more heavy-handed approach:
# The anti-feature block contains two types of assertions:
# * Bugs: Tests characterize the bug, passing when the bug is
exercised and returns an incorrect value
# * Missing features: Tests define the new interface or new behavior,
passing when the feature is missing or behaves incorrectly
# All anti-features are coded as negative logic (asserting a bug or
missing feature) instead of the normal, positive logic (asserting a
truth or real feature). Once they transition from anti-features to
features, move the code outside of this block, and negate the sense of
the test.
ANTI_FEATURES:
{
use Math::Trig;
# Bugs
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
# "ratio of the diameter and circumference is as five-fourths
to four"
cmp_ok(pi, '!=', 4 / (5/4), 'Indiana Pi Bill is in effect.');
# Missing features
ok(! Pig->can('fly'), 'Pigs can fly!');
ok(! Hell->can('freeze_over'), 'Hell can freeze over.');
}
--
Michael R. Wolf
All mammals learn by playing!
MichaelRWolf at att.net
From tallpeak at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 14:02:06 2008
From: tallpeak at hotmail.com (Aaron West)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:02:06 -0800
Subject: SPUG: TargetProcess: an Agile/Scrum project management tool
In-Reply-To: <50397.97.113.117.187.1230624094.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
References: <CC303BC3-3249-4EFC-B029-517B129128B3@att.net>
<50397.97.113.117.187.1230624094.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
Message-ID: <BAY123-DAV8AAEEC0C30039EDF47680C5E70@phx.gbl>
Off-topic, but I thought this might be of interest to some developers or
teams, if you have a spare Windows machine to install on.
I just installed this web-based Scrum (agile) project management tool on my
Windows machine and found it quite cool (easy to setup, easy to use,
amazingly problem-free so far.)
http://targetprocess.com/
...
"TargetProcess is a world-class Agile Software platform that makes project
management for software development projects easy. The TargetProcess project
management software radically simplifies Agile project planning, tracking
(bug tracking, time tracking, etc.) and software quality assurance
activities."
...
Also:
http://targetprocess.com/Product/agile_tour.aspx
More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targetprocess
"...TargetProcess won Jolt Productivity Awards at 2006 and 2008"
"License Proprietary, free for 5 users"
Even more:
http://www.google.com/search?q=targetprocess+subversion
-->
http://www.openpr.com/news/15345/TargetProcess-2-2-Released-with-Subversion-
Integration.html
04.04.2008 - 12:28 ... "Often developers stand against any APM tool since it
takes time to enter data, we've tried to eliminate most of the problems.
With Subversion integration TargetProcess may extract data from commit
messages and automatically change task state, add time and comments. Weekly
time sheet provides simple way to report spent time." ...
Okay, now, excuse the interruption.
From choward at indicium.us Tue Dec 30 18:31:23 2008
From: choward at indicium.us (Christopher Howard)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:31:23 -0900 (AKST)
Subject: SPUG: Perl history
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812301725020.25884@omega.arsc.edu>
Hi. I was browsing the perlhist manpage, when I noticed there was a
release called "Fool's gold" -- 5.6.1-foolish. Any of you old, err...
long-time coders remember why it was called that? Just curious, couldn't
seem to find the answer with google.
--
Christopher Howard
http://indicium.us
From sthoenna at efn.org Tue Dec 30 19:11:46 2008
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:11:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: Perl history
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812301725020.25884@omega.arsc.edu>
References: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812301725020.25884@omega.arsc.edu>
Message-ID: <54942.97.113.117.187.1230693106.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
On Tue, December 30, 2008 6:31 pm, Christopher Howard wrote:
> Hi. I was browsing the perlhist manpage, when I noticed there was a
> release called "Fool's gold" -- 5.6.1-foolish. Any of you old, err...
> long-time coders remember why it was called that? Just curious, couldn't
> seem to find the answer with google.
See
http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/perl5-porters/2001-04/msg00025.html
(On my long list of to-do-someday projects is to get all the old p5p posts
from xray and format them for Ask to import into nntp.perl.org as
perl.perl5.porters.old, then try to persuade google groups into archiving
them. If anyone else wants to work on this, Ask wanted the messages
broken up into one message per file.)
From sthoenna at efn.org Tue Dec 30 19:39:47 2008
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:39:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: Perl history
In-Reply-To: <54942.97.113.117.187.1230693106.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
References: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812301725020.25884@omega.arsc.edu>
<54942.97.113.117.187.1230693106.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
Message-ID: <36176.97.113.117.187.1230694787.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
On Tue, December 30, 2008 7:11 pm, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
> (On my long list of to-do-someday projects is to get all the old p5p
> posts from xray and format them for Ask to import into nntp.perl.org as
> perl.perl5.porters.old, then try to persuade google groups into archiving
> them. If anyone else wants to work on this, Ask wanted the messages
> broken up into one message per file.)
Hmm. Google Groups only has perl.perl5.porters back through May 2002,
but nntp.perl.org actually starts in 1999. Don't know what's up with that.
From choward at indicium.us Wed Dec 31 19:36:39 2008
From: choward at indicium.us (Christopher Howard)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:36:39 -0900 (AKST)
Subject: SPUG: Predeclaring packages
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812311809210.2630@omega.arsc.edu>
Question: Is there a way to predeclare packages, without moving the
package to a separate file?
This is my issue: When I write a script, I like to use packages to keep
everything nice and neat. And I like to have subs and packages after the
'initializing' part of the program, so it is easy to find. So what I'm
doing now is something like this:
### EXAMPLE START ###
#!/usr/bin/env perl
#sub preclarations
sub Explosive::build;
sub Explosive::set;
sub Explosive::detonate;
# Master Control Program start #
Explosive::build();
Explosive::set();
Explosive::detonate();
exit(0);
# Master Control Program end #
package Explosive;
sub build { ... }
sub set { ... }
sub detonate { ... }
### EXAMPLE END ###
This works fine. However, if I want to add package variables, with
convenient 'our' statements, I run into a problem. Say, I re-write the
program:
### EXAMPLE START ###
#!/usr/bin/env perl
#sub preclarations
sub Explosive::build;
sub Explosive::set;
sub Explosive::detonate;
# Master Control Program start #
$Explosive::timer = 'clock';
Explosive::build();
Explosive::set();
Explosive::detonate();
exit(0);
# Master Control Program end #
package Explosive;
{
our $timer;
sub build { ... # include $timer # ... }
sub set { ... # set time on $timer # ... }
sub detonate { ... # when #timer runs out # ...}
}
### EXAMPLE END ###
This doesn't work because $timer is not predeclared along with the
subroutines. I can move the package to the beginning of the script, but
that is not what I want. Or I can declare $timer at the beginning of the
script separately as $Explosive::timer, but then I have to use
$Explosive::timer inside of each subroutine instead of $timer, which is
blinkin' annoying, especially if I want to change the name of the package.
I was trying to use a goto with labels, to run through the package code
before the earlier code, but I couldn't seem to get that to work. (Maybe
it's because I'm not really sure what a label is supposed to look
like... Didn't seem to work like the examples on the internet...)
--
Christopher Howard
http://indicium.us
From charles.e.derykus at boeing.com Wed Dec 31 22:15:30 2008
From: charles.e.derykus at boeing.com (DeRykus, Charles E)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:15:30 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Predeclaring packages
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812311809210.2630@omega.arsc.edu>
References: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0812311809210.2630@omega.arsc.edu>
Message-ID: <FE10499CE029B841A9DAAF12E5A52A1B0AD35965@XCH-NW-3V1.nw.nos.boeing.com>
IIUC, you could assign "our $timer" to the explictit global
inside the 'Explosive' package. You get the convenience of
'our' for $timer without exposing its value outside the
'Explosive' package.
$Explosive::timer = 'clock';
Explosive::build();
Explosive::set();
Explosive::detonate();
exit(0);
# Master Control Program end #
package Explosive;
{
our $timer = $Explosive::timer; # expose only in 'Explosive'
sub build { ... # include $timer # ... }
sub set { ... # set time on $timer # ... }
sub detonate { ... # when #timer runs out # ...}
}
--
Charles DeRykus
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Howard [mailto:choward at indicium.us]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:37 PM
To: Seattle Perl Users Group
Subject: SPUG: Predeclaring packages
Question: Is there a way to predeclare packages, without moving the
package to a separate file?
This is my issue: When I write a script, I like to use packages to keep
everything nice and neat. And I like to have subs and packages after the
'initializing' part of the program, so it is easy to find. So what I'm
doing now is something like this:
### EXAMPLE START ###
#!/usr/bin/env perl
#sub preclarations
sub Explosive::build;
sub Explosive::set;
sub Explosive::detonate;
# Master Control Program start #
Explosive::build();
Explosive::set();
Explosive::detonate();
exit(0);
# Master Control Program end #
package Explosive;
sub build { ... }
sub set { ... }
sub detonate { ... }
### EXAMPLE END ###
This works fine. However, if I want to add package variables, with
convenient 'our' statements, I run into a problem. Say, I re-write the
program:
### EXAMPLE START ###
#!/usr/bin/env perl
#sub preclarations
sub Explosive::build;
sub Explosive::set;
sub Explosive::detonate;
# Master Control Program start #
$Explosive::timer = 'clock';
Explosive::build();
Explosive::set();
Explosive::detonate();
exit(0);
# Master Control Program end #
package Explosive;
{
our $timer;
sub build { ... # include $timer # ... } sub set { ... # set time on
$timer # ... } sub detonate { ... # when #timer runs out # ...}
}
### EXAMPLE END ###
This doesn't work because $timer is not predeclared along with the
subroutines. I can move the package to the beginning of the script, but
that is not what I want. Or I can declare $timer at the beginning of the
script separately as $Explosive::timer, but then I have to use
$Explosive::timer inside of each subroutine instead of $timer, which is
blinkin' annoying, especially if I want to change the name of the
package.
I was trying to use a goto with labels, to run through the package code
before the earlier code, but I couldn't seem to get that to work. (Maybe
it's because I'm not really sure what a label is supposed to look
like... Didn't seem to work like the examples on the internet...)
--
Christopher Howard
http://indicium.us
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