From jazzdev at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 01:29:44 2006
From: jazzdev at gmail.com (JD Brennan)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 01:29:44 -0800
Subject: SPUG: new CPAN shell and LWP::Simple
In-Reply-To: <20060101071302.GC5384@efn.org>
References: <90DCDC0B-7968-11DA-8BA5-000A95719C94@sedition.com>
	<C14BB74E-2647-4371-8510-C31AD40C4940@mac.com>
	<20060101071302.GC5384@efn.org>
Message-ID: <e3c3926f0601020129ha9d312dp1c93ff833a930b6@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like you just need to use cpan to install HTML::Tagset

I like to setup cpan to automatically follow dependencies,
but that's not the default.

JD

On 12/31/05, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes <sthoenna at efn.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2005 at 09:37:03PM -0800, Ramon Hildreth wrote:
> > Hi A,
> >
> > Thanks for the tip. I got further this time I think, but ran into
> > trouble here:
> >
> > ---
> > live/validator.........Can't locate HTML/Tagset.pm in @INC (@INC
>
> libwww-perl requires (URI and) HTML-Parser, which requires HTML-Tagset.
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>

From jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org  Thu Jan  5 14:17:06 2006
From: jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org (SPUG Jobs)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:17:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: JOB: Perl Developer with downtown Seattle company via
	recruiter
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601051415540.24358-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

Exciting Opportunity for a Perl Developer

Lincoln Bay is an IT Staffing Company located in downtown Seattle.  We are
currently working with a client in Seattle that has an opening for a Perl
Developer.  This developer will be responsible for web application
customization.  These web applications will be in support of the primary
sales incentive/service product offered by the company.  This is a great
opportunity for a mid-level developer with a growing company.  The
platform is PHP/Perl/MySQL.  If you are strong in Perl development I would
love to talk with you.  The position will be contract to permanent.  The
contract period will be anywhere from 30-90 days.  The contract rate will
be between $35/hr-$40/hr and $65,000-$70,000/yr on the permanent side.

Please send a resume to nicoles at lincolnbay.com or call me directly at
206-438-5704.
 

Nicole Seaver
Recruiter | Lincoln Bay
1000 2nd Avenue Suite 1900 - Seattle
206-438-5704 - direct
206-438-5711 - fax
nicoles at lincolnbay.com

 



From dblanchard at gmail.com  Mon Jan  9 14:23:49 2006
From: dblanchard at gmail.com (Duane Blanchard)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:23:49 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Happy New Year, let's meet again this month
Message-ID: <d2489e840601091423m5cf87a22w52f86dda6336c65e@mail.gmail.com>

Merry Christmas and other holiday greetings to all,

Last month was a great get-to-know-each-other meeting downtown at the
WhitePages.com office, thanks Craig for a sweet setup and thanks all
the WhitePages people who made the room seem just the right size. I
was worried that being so close to Christmas and Hanukkah and all, we
would only have a few people, but the turn out was great.

Everyone who spoke up there wanted to meet again in January, and said
they would like a couple tutorials or technical discussions this
month. So, if you'd like to volunteer, let us know as soon as you can.
Even if you can't lead a discussion/tutorial this month but would be
interested in one for coming months, please let us know.

It seems to make sense to run the next several meetings at
WhitePages.com again but to start a little later. I was late myself,
and apologize again. I think street parking becomes free after 6:00,
and that it starts filling up on streets that are closed for parking
during day about 15 minutes before they are officially open. Can
anyone in Seattle tell us whether street parking opens at 6:00 also?
Also, someone had a tip for a cheap place to pay for parking; would
you mind reminding me where that was? Thanks.

The date, following convention, will be the 17th. I hope to see everyone there.

Thanks all,

D

--
Duane Blanchard
206.280.1263

There are 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who know binary and those who don't.

From dan at concolor.org  Mon Jan  9 15:00:25 2006
From: dan at concolor.org (Daniel Sabath)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:00:25 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Happy New Year, let's meet again this month
In-Reply-To: <d2489e840601091423m5cf87a22w52f86dda6336c65e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d2489e840601091423m5cf87a22w52f86dda6336c65e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AA95AE47-31DE-4310-A066-DCB9A00ACC2D@concolor.org>


On Jan 9, 2006, at 2:23 PM, Duane Blanchard wrote:

>
> It seems to make sense to run the next several meetings at
> WhitePages.com again but to start a little later. I was late myself,
> and apologize again. I think street parking becomes free after 6:00,
> and that it starts filling up on streets that are closed for parking
> during day about 15 minutes before they are officially open. Can
> anyone in Seattle tell us whether street parking opens at 6:00 also?
> Also, someone had a tip for a cheap place to pay for parking; would
> you mind reminding me where that was? Thanks.
>
Street parking does indeed open at 6pm. I usually have no difficulty  
finding it between 5:55 and 6:10.  If I can't park on the street,  
then Pacific Place is usually  between 3$ and 5$ after 5pm. I think  
the price break is at the 4th hour.

Dan

From m3047 at inwa.net  Tue Jan 10 10:26:20 2006
From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:26:20 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects
Message-ID: <v02130500bfe9a3d8dfd6@[10.0.0.251]>

When I contemplate doing something odd, and particularly if it seems
brilliant, I like to take a step back and ask two questions:

1) Can I explain it to another human being?

2) How would I implement this in some other environment?

So I am going to try to explain this, and then at the end there is a little
standalone Perl script which runs and demonstrates just how easy it is to
change the class of an object in midair using Perl.

So my questions are:

1) After reading this through, does it make a bit of sense? :-p

2) I can think of ways to do this with things like a busybox or a container
with snapins (the last bastions of OO zealots who can't admit that
sometimes a callback is just a callback... regardless of whether the object
in question is disc-shaped or cigar-shaped), but are there any other
languages (particularly agile languages) which make it this as seductively
easy? Can you do this in Python (just a dabbler, me)? Ruby? What about Perl
6?



"Unidentified Flying Object": that's an oxymoron, isn't it? You've
identified it as a flying object (look, up in the sky...).

For that matter you've identified it as "unidentified". Maybe being
unidentified gives it some special properties such as telling other air
traffic to give it a wide berth, and if it disappears suddenly off of radar
to send the Marines instead of an ambulance. Maybe you just don't really
care, and identifying it as "unidentified" is good enough for your
purposes.

What if you make a mistake (it's a bird, no it's a plane..)? Wouldn't it be
nice to fix that as easily as saying "no, it's something else"?

In the actual case at hand there is a base class which implements various
scripts for behaviors, and the subclasses provide methods which are
combined to implement those behaviors. Most of the time you know what
something is. But sometimes you don't yet in the course of executing a
behavior it becomes obvious what it is.

The script which follows does this in a most brutal fashion by calling the
same method twice, once before transmogrification and once afterwards; in
practice the internal methods resemble more a series of steps.

--

Fred Morris
http://www.inwa.net/~m3047/contact.html

--

#!/usr/bin/perl -w

use strict;

package Flyer;

sub new {

    my $class = shift;

    my $self = { };

    return bless $self, $class;

} # &new

sub zap {

    my $self = shift;
    my $new_me = shift;

    print "ZAP!\n";

    return bless $self, $new_me;

} # &zap

sub i_am_a {

    my $self = shift;

    return "I'd tell you but then I'd have to kill -9 you";

} # &i_am_a

sub on_a_typical_day {

    my $self = shift;
    my $new_me = shift;

    print 'I am a ' . $self->i_am_a() . "\n";
    $self->zap( $new_me );
    print 'I am a ' . $self->i_am_a() . "\n";

} # &on_a_typical_day

package Bird;

use vars qw/ @ISA /;
@ISA = qw/ Flyer /;

sub i_am_a {

    my $self = shift;

    return "bird, with feathers";

} # &i_am_a

package Plane;

use vars qw/ @ISA /;
@ISA = qw/ Flyer /;

sub i_am_a {

    my $self = shift;

    return "plane, with engines";

} # &i_am_a

# -=-=- let the show begin -=-=-

package main;

my $ufo = Bird->new();

$ufo->on_a_typical_day( 'Plane' );

exit(0)

__END__



From AEH at akc.org  Tue Jan 10 11:21:08 2006
From: AEH at akc.org (Adrian Hands)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:21:08 -0500
Subject: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects
Message-ID: <862E491E88FFFE44846C445B4881DD7C31FB25@PUG.ad.akc.org>

> something is. But sometimes you don't yet in the course of executing a
> behavior it becomes obvious what it is.

so, you do a cast, but from Flyer to Plane (or Flyer to Bird), but not
Bird to Plane.

  Flyer ufo = new Bird();
  ( (Plane) ufo ).on_a_typical_day(); 
  // you'll get a ClassCastException at runtime.

When is it a good idea to change a bird into a plane?

From m3047 at inwa.net  Tue Jan 10 11:57:27 2006
From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:57:27 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects
Message-ID: <v02130500bfe9baa13abf@[10.0.0.251]>

At 2:21 PM 1/10/06, Adrian Hands wrote:
>I wrote:
>> [...]something is. But sometimes you don't yet in the course of executing a
>> behavior it becomes obvious what it is.
>
>so, you do a cast, but from Flyer to Plane (or Flyer to Bird), but not
>Bird to Plane.
>
>  Flyer ufo = new Bird();
>  ( (Plane) ufo ).on_a_typical_day();
>  // you'll get a ClassCastException at runtime.

No. It is not a cast. It is a zen thing: it is not a bird wearing an
airplane's clothes, it changes from a bird into a plane. With enough
template hacking maybe somebody can do it in C++; I'd be afraid.

Again, it is not a cast (which to me implies temporarily cloaking an object
in the appearance of another, typically to fool a compiler and not to
directly alter execution). It is something, however, which is conceivable
in a semi-interpreted language such as Perl where class is simply an
attribute which is bound to a reference (reference as a general concept, as
opposed to a narrow definition such as a container for a memory address);
in fact I would have been far more surprised if it hadn't worked.

There is an old quote somewhere that C++ is to C as lung cancer is to lung.
In this case the adage might be Perl is to OO as C is to assembler. (If
comparing C to assembler seems silly to you, you need only look at the C
compilers released for free-running microprocessors with a whopping 8K of
flash and 256 bytes of RAM... or reflect on the processor which C was
originally developed for.)  So the question: "can I do this in another
implementation environment" == "how processor-specific is this".

>When is it a good idea to change a bird into a plane?

And the answer is when it becomes a plane.

Is that the right question? When is it a good idea to eat lunch?

(Your truncation to "...something is" is serendipitous.) It is not the
object which changes, but our perception of it. The code is neither the
bird nor the plane, but our perception of it. It's a zen thing.

I appreciate your asking, but the question I would ask is: when is it worth
doing something brilliant as opposed to upholding rigid conventions or
belief systems which in and of themselves may fail your "good idea" test?
Is it a good idea to construct your own bird, or is it better to let them
hatch from eggs? Planes, of course, don't hatch from eggs; yet the ontology
of the development of mechanized flight certainly reveals its inspiration
from the natural world.

I would proffer that doing something like this requires developing some
appropriate style guidelines so that you don't for example, change a bird
into a rock: something which Perl would also allow (it enforces no
discernible constraints on what an object can be changed into, for instance
must be a subclass of the same base class.. the potential for mayhem is I
hope obvious, it is to me).




From jazzdev at gmail.com  Tue Jan 10 12:15:12 2006
From: jazzdev at gmail.com (JD Brennan)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:15:12 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects
In-Reply-To: <v02130500bfe9a3d8dfd6@10.0.0.251>
References: <v02130500bfe9a3d8dfd6@10.0.0.251>
Message-ID: <e3c3926f0601101215k43f9ead4s8af684e447c4291d@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/10/06, Fred Morris <m3047 at inwa.net> wrote:
>
>
> sub zap {
>
>     my $self = shift;
>     my $new_me = shift;
>
>     print "ZAP!\n";
>
>     return bless $self, $new_me;


Yeah, that's odd.  Calling bless more than once.  That
is kinda cool.  I don't think you can do that in Ruby.
Perl is strange that way.  An object is just a
reference to an object (typically a hash) marked
as a certain type.  I never realized that you could
change the type on the fly, but of course it makes
sense given how Perl does objects.

I can't think of any other language where you can change
the run-time type of an object after you've created it.

You can do something similar in JavaScript and Smalltalk.
You can change add or change a method on an object.
Something similar to your example (in JavaScript):

var ufo = new Bird();
ufo.i_am_a();
ufo.i_am_a = Plane.i_am_a;
ufo.i_am_a();

But in Perl it's cooler because you get all the
methods of the new type at once.  In JavaScript
or Smalltalk you'd have to set them all one at
a time, I think.

Arc (a dialect of Lisp) has objects that are tagged
objects, but I don't know if Arc really has the
notion of a run-time type.  Arc isn't actually
finished yet, so it's anyone's guess.  Arc is more
like JavaScript in that methods are part of the hash,
whereas in Perl methods are part of a package that
has the name of the run-time type.

Now as to why you'd want to do this, I don't know.
Might be useful for adding methods to an instance
on the fly.  I've done that in JavaScript, but it might
be awkward in Perl to keep the existing methods and
add a new one.

If you just changed the object's type on the fly it might
be initialized properly - that is the contents of it's
hash might not have all the right keys set.

JD
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From andrew at sweger.net  Tue Jan 10 12:25:15 2006
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:25:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects
In-Reply-To: <v02130500bfe9a3d8dfd6@[10.0.0.251]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601101220420.24358-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, Fred Morris wrote:

> So I am going to try to explain this, and then at the end there is a little
> standalone Perl script which runs and demonstrates just how easy it is to
> change the class of an object in midair using Perl.

Way back in 1999, a mild mannered coworker demonstrated a script that
would use the Perl class name as a kind of state attribute as it managed a
huge pool of flying objects. My only response was, "That is so cool! And
sick."

Somehow it seems to defeat the purpose of the academic OO model. But
that's just because I can't think of a practical example of where this
technique would actually be helpful to understanding the solution to a
problem.

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From spud at spudzeppelin.com  Tue Jan 10 13:07:01 2006
From: spud at spudzeppelin.com (Jeff Almeida)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:07:01 -0600
Subject: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601101220420.24358-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601101220420.24358-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Message-ID: <86EC5A85-E0FB-462C-94C9-205D0974AF0D@spudzeppelin.com>

On Jan 10, 2006, at 2:25 PM, Andrew Sweger wrote:

> Somehow it seems to defeat the purpose of the academic OO model. But
> that's just because I can't think of a practical example of where this
> technique would actually be helpful to understanding the solution to a
> problem.

Think about the classic textbook example for multiple inheritance: a  
flying boat
is both a boat and an airplane.  But really, it doesn't act like both  
of them at the
same time... this way, it's a boat when it's a boat and it's and  
airplane when it's
an airplane.

Or, as a second suggestion, certain professional athletes might have  
two (or
more!) sets of statistics, based on which sport they happened to be  
playing at
the time: Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders, Michael Jordan, and Danny Ainge all
leap to mind right away....

My main question is how you keep track of whether an object can  
change its
base class -- do you add some attribute common to a superclass that  
includes
all of the possible classes something could become, itemizing which  
ones it may
become?  Or, is this whole proposition just a loosely-camouflaged  
form of
multiple inheritance that reorders the inheritance hierarchy on the fly?

And how in the world did you get warmer weather today than we did?  
*grin*

****************************************
Jeff D. Almeida * Corinth, TX
spud at spudzeppelin.com
****************************************





From charles.e.derykus at boeing.com  Tue Jan 10 13:47:49 2006
From: charles.e.derykus at boeing.com (DeRykus, Charles E)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:47:49 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects
Message-ID: <FE10499CE029B841A9DAAF12E5A52A1B011D8EF4@XCH-NW-3V1.nw.nos.boeing.com>

Beware re-blessers that forgot to clean their dirty laundry.though..
 
      From perlobj:
 
      Although a constructor can in theory re-bless a referenced
      object currently belonging to another class, this is almost
      certainly going to get you into trouble.  The new class is
      responsible for all cleanup later.  The previous blessing is
      forgotten, as an object may belong to only one class at a
      time.  (Although of course it's free to inherit methods from
      many classes.)  If you find yourself having to do this, the
      parent class is probably misbehaving, though.
 
 
The plain vanilla re-bless below for instance doesn't call Foo's DESTROY method -- only
Bar's. 
 
   package Foo;
   sub new { my $self= shift; bless {}, $self }
   sub zap { my($self,$newself)=@_; bless $self, $newself }
   DESTROY { print "cleaning up Foo..."; }
 
   package Bar;
   sub new { my $self= shift; bless {}, $self };
   DESTROY { print "cleaning up Bar..."; }

   package main;
   my $foo = Foo->new("Bar");
   $foo->zap("Bar");
 
hth,  
-- 
Charles DeRykus
 
 

	-----Original Message-----.
	From: JD Brennan [mailto:jazzdev at gmail.com] 
	Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:15 PM
	To: Fred Morris
	Cc: spug-list at pm.org
	Subject: Re: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects
	
	
	On 1/10/06, Fred Morris <m3047 at inwa.net> wrote: 
	


		sub zap {
		
		    my $self = shift;
		    my $new_me = shift;
		
		    print "ZAP!\n";
		
		    return bless $self, $new_me;


	Yeah, that's odd.  Calling bless more than once.  That
	is kinda cool.  I don't think you can do that in Ruby.
	Perl is strange that way.  An object is just a
	reference to an object (typically a hash) marked
	as a certain type.  I never realized that you could
	change the type on the fly, but of course it makes
	sense given how Perl does objects.
	
	I can't think of any other language where you can change
	the run-time type of an object after you've created it.
	

	You can do something similar in JavaScript and Smalltalk.
	You can change add or change a method on an object.
	Something similar to your example (in JavaScript):
	
	var ufo = new Bird();
	ufo.i_am_a();
	ufo.i_am_a = Plane.i_am_a;
	ufo.i_am_a();
	
	But in Perl it's cooler because you get all the
	methods of the new type at once.  In JavaScript
	or Smalltalk you'd have to set them all one at
	a time, I think.
	
	Arc (a dialect of Lisp) has objects that are tagged
	objects, but I don't know if Arc really has the
	notion of a run-time type.  Arc isn't actually
	finished yet, so it's anyone's guess.  Arc is more
	like JavaScript in that methods are part of the hash,
	whereas in Perl methods are part of a package that
	has the name of the run-time type.
	
	Now as to why you'd want to do this, I don't know.
	Might be useful for adding methods to an instance
	on the fly.  I've done that in JavaScript, but it might
	be awkward in Perl to keep the existing methods and
	add a new one.
	
	If you just changed the object's type on the fly it might
	be initialized properly - that is the contents of it's
	hash might not have all the right keys set.
	
	JD
	
	

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From uril at exchange.microsoft.com  Tue Jan 10 20:09:19 2006
From: uril at exchange.microsoft.com (Uri London)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:09:19 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects
In-Reply-To: <86EC5A85-E0FB-462C-94C9-205D0974AF0D@spudzeppelin.com>
Message-ID: <E085F3FEACEE2547BA5EC8A8A7FE195C1D788B@df-beagle-msg.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>

In C++:

You can somewhat hack it, but changing the __vptr (typically the first pointer in a class) of one object, to point to a different __vtable.




-----Original Message-----
From: spug-list-bounces at pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces at pm.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Almeida
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:07 PM
To: Andrew Sweger
Cc: Fred Morris; spug-list at pm.org
Subject: Re: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects

On Jan 10, 2006, at 2:25 PM, Andrew Sweger wrote:

> Somehow it seems to defeat the purpose of the academic OO model. But
> that's just because I can't think of a practical example of where this
> technique would actually be helpful to understanding the solution to a
> problem.

Think about the classic textbook example for multiple inheritance: a  
flying boat
is both a boat and an airplane.  But really, it doesn't act like both  
of them at the
same time... this way, it's a boat when it's a boat and it's and  
airplane when it's
an airplane.

Or, as a second suggestion, certain professional athletes might have  
two (or
more!) sets of statistics, based on which sport they happened to be  
playing at
the time: Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders, Michael Jordan, and Danny Ainge all
leap to mind right away....

My main question is how you keep track of whether an object can  
change its
base class -- do you add some attribute common to a superclass that  
includes
all of the possible classes something could become, itemizing which  
ones it may
become?  Or, is this whole proposition just a loosely-camouflaged  
form of
multiple inheritance that reorders the inheritance hierarchy on the fly?

And how in the world did you get warmer weather today than we did?  
*grin*

****************************************
Jeff D. Almeida * Corinth, TX
spud at spudzeppelin.com
****************************************




_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
     POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

From m3047 at inwa.net  Tue Jan 10 23:51:40 2006
From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:51:40 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects
Message-ID: <v02130501bfea525be090@[10.0.0.251]>

Thanks JD, Andrew, Jeff and Charles:


Who'd'a thunk it? So, by the criterion that it's been thought of before,
it's crazy, but I'm not. Thanks to all of you, and it's been an interesting
little excursion. I'll give some more detail about the actual app, because
it speaks to how crazy this is (or isn't).

There are a small handful of patterns for this (web-based) application, and
there are a small handful of base classes which all declare some standard
"make it go" method which might be called ->handle-request(), and this
method in turn invokes any number of methods in some predefined order which
carry out the request. The base class defines default implementations of
these methods and subclasses override them as needed (actually for one-offs
they just provide callbacks; I am not a purist).

One of these patterns looks like: web request stuff, parameter bomb
checking, validation, access checking, some template fiddling, major
lifting, some more template fiddling, and finally return it to the user. I
don't mean to oversimplify. Let's call this the "edit" pattern.

One of the (maybe the only) aberrational edit operations is to take
ownership. At that point after what would otherwise be access checking we
have by definition arrived at the same state of knowledge which we would
have had by passively checking information which had been supplied in the
request had we owned the object in the first place. In the web interface,
the user was provided with a (read only) screen with an "edit" button. In
the pattern, pretty much all of the heavy lifting from this point on, for
taking ownership, is a no-op. So: do we send back some JavaScript template
which immediately sends a more usual request to edit the object, or do we
erect some scaffolding on the server side to accomplish the same thing.. or
recognizing that we are where we want to be do we simply, somehow, turn one
kind of request into another? Who knew that was possible? Well, obviously I
didn't until maybe 48 hours ago.


I know how I'd do it in Java (is this the third unspoken question: to know
what rules one is breaking?), I'd have some sort of factory class managing
(mangling?) an "item" class and a machinery class (subclassing the
fabrication steps) which fabricated it. I'd swap the machinery out. (This
is the subjective exercise: by doing so did I change the whole factory, or
did I pick the item up and move it to a different line mid-fabrication?
Does it matter?) You can turn that inside out or sideways (like Cat's
Cradle) and accomplish the same thing.


JD wrote:
>You can do something similar in JavaScript and Smalltalk.
>You can change add or change a method on an object.
>Something similar to your example (in JavaScript):
>
>var ufo = new Bird();
>ufo.i_am_a();
>ufo.i_am_a = Plane.i_am_a;
>ufo.i_am_a();
>

Yah, this is the callback notion and of course this is the kind of thing
the one-offs (which don't achieve full incarnation as subclasses) do.. very
much like the example given. I suppose the existing implementation looks a
lot like the "factory" described above, except that the factory (and its
subclasses) are the machinery and there is no discrete item (it is embodied
in the properties of the "factory").

That JavaScript example looks like you're taking the function definition
(which is an object) and using it to replace a different one. Cool. This is
how we would have done it in C, too, with some sort of struct containing
the procedure pointers for the various state handlers. I liked it then, I
like it now. I like state engines. ;-) Changing the handlers mid-operation
is unconventional but hearkens to the concept of frames which is
encountered in expert systems.

I don't think this sort of problem is particularly new, I just don't think
that it occurs often enough to rise above idiom and idiosyncracy to the
kind of thing which a language goes out of its way to tackle (except,
apparently, Perl.. although I think it's arguable that it goes out of its
way to handle it).

I suppose the best question would be: why not simply overwrite the handlers
when you realize the situation has changed? I don't have a great answer for
that, other than if you've done something once why do it again?


Jeff Almeida wrote:
>Think about the classic textbook example for multiple inheritance: a
>flying boat
>is both a boat and an airplane.  But really, it doesn't act like both
>of them at the
>same time... this way, it's a boat when it's a boat and it's and
>airplane when it's
>an airplane.

That is a textbook example, and maybe that is what Andrew was also thinking
about. Actually Andrew doesn't say that, on re-reading. Now I'm confused.
Well this seems like a textbook example. There is something about
"academic" and "Perl" in the same sentence and I think he knows what I'm
talking about. So, because he wasn't thinking about it, he was thinking
about it... clear as mud?

I was really coming at this particular case from the essential realization
that there was a point where an object which I was considering to be one
thing was in fact another in all but name... and this name was what was
preventing it from carrying on with being what it was.


Charles DeRykus wrote:
>Beware re-blessers that forgot to clean their dirty laundry....

I have a name! :-) :-)

Good point. Anything in my particular universe is going to change into a
subclass of the same base class. The pattern is defined by the base class.
I don't actually have destructors, although if they were defined by the
base class my guess is that I'd be o.k.

I am inclined to go with this rather sublime hack, and to document the crap
out of it and erect some sort of cage around it so that things can only
transmogrify into subclasses of the same base class.




From sthoenna at efn.org  Wed Jan 11 01:38:47 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 01:38:47 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Unidentified Flying Objects
In-Reply-To: <v02130500bfe9a3d8dfd6@[10.0.0.251]>
References: <v02130500bfe9a3d8dfd6@[10.0.0.251]>
Message-ID: <20060111093846.GB2532@efn.org>

On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 10:26:20AM -0800, Fred Morris wrote:
> sub zap {
> 
>     my $self = shift;
>     my $new_me = shift;
> 
>     print "ZAP!\n";
> 
>     return bless $self, $new_me;
> 
> } # &zap

This is better written

sub zap {
  my $new_me = $_[1];

  print "ZAP!\n";

  return bless $_[0], $new_me;
}

otherwise the overloaded flag won't be correctly set on the zapped
object if zapping from an overloaded class to a non-overloaded class
or vice versa.

Even done this way, copies of the object/reference will be out of
sync:

$ perl
use warnings;
use strict;
{
  package Foo;
  use overload q!""! => sub { "overloaded!" };
  sub new { bless {} }
}
{
  package Bar;
  sub new { bless {} }
}
sub zap { bless $_[0], $_[1] }
$a = $b = Foo::->new;
zap($b, "Bar");
print "a: ", eval{"$a"} || "stringify croaked!", " b: $b\n";

$a = $b = Bar::->new;
zap($b, "Foo");
print "a: ", eval{"$a"} || "stringify croaked!", " b: $b\n";
__END__
a: stringify croaked! b: Bar=HASH(0x47f060)
a: Foo=HASH(0x4b89a0) b: overloaded!


This happens because the overload flag is stored on the reference, not
the referent, for efficiency, so only the copy of the reference passed
to bless and any later copies of it are correctly overloaded.

From david.s.patterson at usa.net  Wed Jan 11 10:09:30 2006
From: david.s.patterson at usa.net (David S.Patterson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:09:30 -0800
Subject: SPUG: BSD Sockets and perl
Message-ID: <935kakR8I7584S22.1137002970@cmsweb10.cms.usa.net>

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From james at banshee.com  Wed Jan 11 10:58:00 2006
From: james at banshee.com (James Moore)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:58:00 -0800
Subject: SPUG: BSD Sockets and perl
In-Reply-To: <935kakR8I7584S22.1137002970@cmsweb10.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <200601111857.k0BIvsch003334@server2.banshee.com>

You're describing the normal way to use sockets, so giving pointers to
examples would be tough - 90% of the example code for sockets would work
just fine.

Don't get hung up on the distinction between "clients" and "servers" - those
concepts are higher-level abstractions that don't really mean much at the
socket level.  Once the connection is established you've got two peers
speaking to each other, and designating one side the "server" may help you
think about a problem but there's nothing going on to enforce that thought.

 - James 


From cmeyer at helvella.org  Wed Jan 11 11:16:50 2006
From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:16:50 -0800
Subject: SPUG: BSD Sockets and perl
In-Reply-To: <935kakR8I7584S22.1137002970@cmsweb10.cms.usa.net>
References: <935kakR8I7584S22.1137002970@cmsweb10.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <20060111191650.GA4833@funpox.helvella.org>

On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 10:09:30AM -0800, David S.Patterson wrote:
> <html>
> <body>
> <P><FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3>I have a
>    perl project that requires a&nbsp;client server with continuous&nbsp;two-
>    way communications.</FONT></P>
...
> <P>Does anyone have any example code for continuous two way
>    communication over sockets in perl (or C/C++) that they would be
>    willing to share?&nbsp; Any other suggestions?</P>

There's a few examples in the perlipc manpage ('perldoc perlipc', search
for socket), and more in the Perl Cookbook.

-Colin.

From sthoenna at efn.org  Wed Jan 11 11:23:55 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:23:55 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Mailing list trailer
Message-ID: <20060111192355.GA3708@efn.org>

> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

The location should probably be removed from there.

From andrew at sweger.net  Wed Jan 11 12:08:37 2006
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:08:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: Mailing list trailer
In-Reply-To: <20060111192355.GA3708@efn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601111207560.24358-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:

> > _____________________________________________________________
> > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
> >      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> >     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
> >     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
> 
> The location should probably be removed from there.

Done.

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.

See? 


From david.s.patterson at usa.net  Wed Jan 11 13:06:20 2006
From: david.s.patterson at usa.net (David S.Patterson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:06:20 -0800
Subject: SPUG: BSD Sockets and perl
Message-ID: <249kakVgu7968S21.1137013580@cmsweb21.cms.usa.net>

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From schuh at farmdale.com  Wed Jan 11 13:22:31 2006
From: schuh at farmdale.com (Mike Schuh)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:22:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: BSD Sockets and perl
In-Reply-To: <249kakVgu7968S21.1137013580@cmsweb21.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0601111320200.12326-100000@cascadia.drizzle.com>

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, David S.Patterson wrote:

>So you're saying either the client or server can read or write to each
>other, blocking or non-blocking, with the same basic functions once the
>connection is established?

"client" and "server" merely indicate who called whom.  Think phone calls:  
the client calls the server but after that either may talk or both.  
Heck, neither could say anything - this could serve as an interesting way
to monitor connectivity.

--
Mike Schuh -- Seattle, Washington USA
http://www.farmdale.com


From mike206 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 11 13:35:01 2006
From: mike206 at gmail.com (mike)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:35:01 -0700
Subject: SPUG: BSD Sockets and perl
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0601111320200.12326-100000@cascadia.drizzle.com>
References: <249kakVgu7968S21.1137013580@cmsweb21.cms.usa.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0601111320200.12326-100000@cascadia.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <b0b825730601111335o75bb0cb9s16edbc9e3a8d0b1c@mail.gmail.com>

the perl cookbook is very handy for this and should answer your questions
and give all the examples you need.

http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/perl/cookbook/ch17_01.htm

note the mispelling of 'oreilly' in the URL



On 1/11/06, Mike Schuh <schuh at farmdale.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, David S.Patterson wrote:
>
> >So you're saying either the client or server can read or write to each
> >other, blocking or non-blocking, with the same basic functions once the
> >connection is established?
>
> "client" and "server" merely indicate who called whom.  Think phone calls:
> the client calls the server but after that either may talk or both.
> Heck, neither could say anything - this could serve as an interesting way
> to monitor connectivity.
>
> --
> Mike Schuh -- Seattle, Washington USA
> http://www.farmdale.com
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>
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From m3047 at inwa.net  Wed Jan 11 14:17:52 2006
From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:17:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: client vs. server Re:  BSD Sockets and perl
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0601111320200.12326-100000@cascadia.drizzle.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0601111320200.12326-100000@cascadia.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0601111404240.17576@flame.m3047.inwa.net>

Client and server do retain some conventional meaning in blocking
situations, because the server is likely to block waiting for requests,
and the client is likely to block waiting for replies. Of course if the
server is capable of handling multiple requests simultaneously that
changes things, and if the client is requesting stuff from multiple
servers that changes things, and so forth.

Remember: "blocking" means.. blocking!

(Is this an appropriate time to mention UDP, and suggest they
evaluate the nature of the communication in terms of reliability which is
required as well as the reliability of the connection?)

(Also, what about expect?)

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Mike Schuh wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, David S.Patterson wrote:
>
> >So you're saying either the client or server can read or write to each
> >other, blocking or non-blocking, with the same basic functions once the
> >connection is established?
>
> "client" and "server" merely indicate who called whom.  Think phone calls:
> the client calls the server but after that either may talk or both.
> Heck, neither could say anything - this could serve as an interesting way
> to monitor connectivity.

--

Fred Morris
http://www.inwa.net/~m3047/contact.html


From cwilkes-spug at ladro.com  Wed Jan 11 17:14:44 2006
From: cwilkes-spug at ladro.com (Chris Wilkes)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:14:44 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Getting the current time perl snippet on TheDailyWTF
Message-ID: <20060112011444.GC14691@chisq.ladro.com>

Saw this in that website's RSS feed for today:

http://thedailywtf.com/forums/56361/ShowPost.aspx

Without many of the built-in date/time functions found in other
languages, some Perl users can find themselves having to write some
interesting code in order to get the results they want. Sure, it's
pretty easy to reference the DateTime module, or a whole host of other
modules to help with this, but who wants to use code that someone else
invented? Some resort to fiddling with the number of seconds since epoch
returned by the time() function. Others, such as Mike's predecessor,
issue an operating system command to write the date out to text file,
read the file back in, parse it, and use the result ...

    #write out date
    system("date >/tmp/the.date");

    #read it back in
    open(THEDATE, "</tmp/the.date");
    while (<THEDATE>) 
    {
      chop;
      @datevals = split(/ /,$_);
    }
    close(THEDATE);

From uril at exchange.microsoft.com  Thu Jan 12 01:27:47 2006
From: uril at exchange.microsoft.com (Uri London)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 01:27:47 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Parsing (Windows) PE files in Perl
Message-ID: <E085F3FEACEE2547BA5EC8A8A7FE195C1D7C9B@df-beagle-msg.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>

Please forgive me if this is a trivial question - I'm just doing my very first steps in Perl.

I need to extract some information from the headers of PE files (If you have left the Unix realm, PE files are Windows executables - DLL's, EXE's, SYS's etc. These files start with 'MZ').

The files have a binary structure. They starts with IMAGE_DOS_HEADER, which is concatenated with IMAGE_OS_HEADER, IMAGE_FILE_HEADER, and then bunch of different directories, with various offsets, depends on values on the previous headers. The headers contains information such as size (of various sections), bunch of attributes, version, check-sums, timestamps, offsets to other structures resources, offsets to tables, list of imports, list of exports, etc. etc.

These structures and various definitions to magic values are all public and defined in C/C++ in winnt.h in the platform SDK.

I'm not sure that Perl is the best choice for this task, but I'd like to try to do it in Perl, so I'd like to consult this alias about the best strategy.

Is Perl the right language to parse binary files?
Is anyone aware of an already existing package to does this job?
Assuming a package doesn't exist, please help with some novice questions:
-          How to open a file in a binary mode?
-          How do I read blobs from a file?
-          How to unpack a binary structure?
-          If I need to, can I seek (forward, backward), or another mean to have random access. Does Perl support memory mapping?


Thanks a lot.

u.




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From jerry.gay at gmail.com  Thu Jan 12 06:56:45 2006
From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 06:56:45 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Parsing (Windows) PE files in Perl
In-Reply-To: <E085F3FEACEE2547BA5EC8A8A7FE195C1D7C9B@df-beagle-msg.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <E085F3FEACEE2547BA5EC8A8A7FE195C1D7C9B@df-beagle-msg.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <1d9a3f400601120656i4f9b8f3eucd8383e7d74b0668@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/12/06, Uri London <uril at exchange.microsoft.com> wrote:
> Please forgive me if this is a trivial question ? I'm just doing my very
> first steps in Perl.
>
welcome!

> I need to extract some information from the headers of PE files (If you have
> left the Unix realm, PE files are Windows executables ? DLL's, EXE's, SYS's
> etc. These files start with 'MZ').
>
> The files have a binary structure. They starts with IMAGE_DOS_HEADER, which
> is concatenated with IMAGE_OS_HEADER, IMAGE_FILE_HEADER, and then bunch of
> different directories, with various offsets, depends on values on the
> previous headers. The headers contains information such as size (of various
> sections), bunch of attributes, version, check-sums, timestamps, offsets to
> other structures resources, offsets to tables, list of imports, list of
> exports, etc. etc.
>
> These structures and various definitions to magic values are all public and
> defined in C/C++ in winnt.h in the platform SDK.
>
> I'm not sure that Perl is the best choice for this task, but I'd like to try
> to do it in Perl, so I'd like to consult this alias about the best strategy.
>
> Is Perl the right language to parse binary files?
>
YES!

> Is anyone aware of an already existing package to does this job?
>
no, i'm not. but the best place to look is CPAN (http://search.cpan.org/)

> Assuming a package doesn't exist, please help with some novice questions:
>
> -          How to open a file in a binary mode?
see 'perldoc -f binmode'
it'll go something like:

    my $file = 'foo.dll';
    open(local *PE, '>', my $file)
        or die qq{can't open $file: $!};
    binmode 1;

    # read from the file...

    close *PE;  # remember to close it when you're done

> -          How do I read blobs from a file?
>
see 'perldoc -f read'

> -          How to unpack a binary structure?
>
see 'perldoc -f unpack', and related, 'perldoc -f pack'. there's too
much to go into here, but google is your friend. something like 'perl
pack tutorial' should provide helpful.

> -          If I need to, can I seek (forward, backward), or another mean to
> have random access. Does Perl support memory mapping?
>
you can use 'seek' and 'tell' to move around in the file, and find out
where you are.

    my $curpos;
    my $newpos = 2;
    seek *PE, $newpos, 0
        or die qq{can't move to position $newpos in file $file: $!};
    $curpos = tell *PE;
    print qq{i'm at position $curpos in file $file};

for memory mapping, there is a module you can use to help: see
Win32::MMF (http://search.cpan.org/~roger/Win32-MMF-0.09e/)

good luck!
~jerry

BTW i use the qq{} quoting construct instead of single- or
double-quotes so i don't have to worry about escaping them. you can
find more by reading the 'Quote and Quote-Like Operators' section
'perldoc perlop'.

From david.dyck at fluke.com  Thu Jan 12 07:12:27 2006
From: david.dyck at fluke.com (David Dyck)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:12:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: Parsing (Windows) PE files in Perl
In-Reply-To: <E085F3FEACEE2547BA5EC8A8A7FE195C1D7C9B@df-beagle-msg.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <E085F3FEACEE2547BA5EC8A8A7FE195C1D7C9B@df-beagle-msg.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0601120707570.7873@dd.tc.fluke.com>

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 at 01:27 -0800, Uri London <uril at exchange.microsoft.com...:

> Assuming a package doesn't exist, please help with some novice questions:
  ...
> -          How to unpack a binary structure?

I'd recomend this useful tool on CPAN:
  Convert::Binary::C - Binary Data Conversion using C Types
and it comes with extensive documenation.

DESCRIPTION
      Convert::Binary::C is a preprocessor and parser for C type
      definitions. It is highly configurable and should support
      arbitrarily complex data structures. Its object-oriented
      interface has "pack" and "unpack" methods that act as
      replacements for Perl's "pack" and "unpack" and allow to use
      the C types instead of a string representation of the data
      structure for conversion of binary data from and to Perl's
      complex data structures.

      Actually, what Convert::Binary::C does is not very different
      from what a C compiler does, just that it doesn't compile
      the source code into an object file or executable, but only
      parses the code and allows Perl to use the enumerations,
      structs, unions and typedefs that have been defined within
      your C source for binary data conversion, similar to Perl's
      "pack" and "unpack".

      Beyond that, the module offers a lot of convenience methods
      to retrieve information about the C types that have been
      parsed.


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From james at banshee.com  Thu Jan 12 11:31:07 2006
From: james at banshee.com (James Moore)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:31:07 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Parsing (Windows) PE files in Perl
In-Reply-To: <1d9a3f400601120656i4f9b8f3eucd8383e7d74b0668@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200601121931.k0CJV1II021887@server2.banshee.com>

Much as I like perl, it's not the first tool I reach for when I'm doing
things like parsing executable files.  Usually you've got a bunch of header
files, usually in C, it's simpler just to play in C-land.  Much of the
strength of perl doesn't apply to mucking around with binaries.  Sure, it
can do it, but since you tend to be doing lots of things that look like
pointer arithmetic, why not just use C?

 - James


From jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org  Thu Jan 12 14:02:47 2006
From: jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org (SPUG Jobs)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:02:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: JOB: 4 Perl jobs at local e-commerce companies
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601121358530.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

The Lincoln Bay agency is currently looking for Perl developers to place
at two different companies, in four different positions.

Required Skill-Set

  Perl application development (not scripting), some PHP, and MySQL would
  be nice

Contract or Perm

  There are two permanent needs (one at each of the two companies), and
  two contract opportunities.

Contract Duration

  3+ months, possibility of converting to permanent

Availability of Stock and Bonus

  Depends on experience.

Recruiter or Directly with Company

  Through recruiting firm

W-2 vs 1099

  Contracts will be on W-2 basis

Physical Location

  Both companies are on West side of water. One is slightly south of
  downtown, the other is north.

Telecommuting Possible

  Depends, negotiable

Company product or service

  e-commerce
 

Have anyone interested call me for more info. Thanks for the help, I'm
looking forward to working with you. 

 

Travis J. Winegardner
Lincoln Bay | Recruiter
travisw at lincolnbay.com
1000 2nd Ave, Ste 1900, Seattle
(p) 206.438.5702 
(f) 206.438.5711


From sthoenna at efn.org  Thu Jan 12 18:55:29 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:55:29 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Parsing (Windows) PE files in Perl
In-Reply-To: <1d9a3f400601120656i4f9b8f3eucd8383e7d74b0668@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E085F3FEACEE2547BA5EC8A8A7FE195C1D7C9B@df-beagle-msg.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>
	<1d9a3f400601120656i4f9b8f3eucd8383e7d74b0668@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060113025528.GA2236@efn.org>

On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 06:56:45AM -0800, jerry gay wrote:
> On 1/12/06, Uri London <uril at exchange.microsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> > Assuming a package doesn't exist, please help with some novice questions:
> >
> > -          How to open a file in a binary mode?
> see 'perldoc -f binmode'
> it'll go something like:
> 
>     my $file = 'foo.dll';
>     open(local *PE, '>', my $file)
>         or die qq{can't open $file: $!};
>     binmode 1;

Are there versions of perl that support 3-arg open but not lexical
filehandles?

There are a couple of errors there; I'd make that:

   my $file = 'foo.dll';
   open( my $pe, '>', $file )
      or die "Can't open $file: $!";
   binmode $pe;

From jerry.gay at gmail.com  Fri Jan 13 09:00:40 2006
From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:00:40 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Parsing (Windows) PE files in Perl
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0601130833460.13251@dd.tc.fluke.com>
References: <E085F3FEACEE2547BA5EC8A8A7FE195C1D7C9B@df-beagle-msg.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>
	<1d9a3f400601120656i4f9b8f3eucd8383e7d74b0668@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0601130833460.13251@dd.tc.fluke.com>
Message-ID: <1d9a3f400601130900n51ee1a91g7990dbac460bb26c@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/13/06, David Dyck <david.dyck at fluke.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 at 06:56 -0800, jerry gay <jerry.gay at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > it'll go something like:
> >
> >    my $file = 'foo.dll';
> >    open(local *PE, '>', my $file)
> >        or die qq{can't open $file: $!};
> >    binmode 1;
> >
> >    # read from the file...
> >
> >    close *PE;  # remember to close it when you're done
>
>
> You comment about reading from the file, but doesn't
> the open flag '>' WRITE to the file?
>
that's the danger of coding perl at 6:56am.

my $file = 'foo.dll';
open(local *PE, '<', my $file)
    or die qq{can't open $file: $!};
binmode *PE;

should work much better for reading a file.

on another note, if yitzchak's scalar ref-to-filehandle syntax is
preferred, use that. it works just as well.

~jerry

From andrew at sweger.net  Fri Jan 13 10:04:46 2006
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:04:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: Parsing (Windows) PE files in Perl
In-Reply-To: <1d9a3f400601130900n51ee1a91g7990dbac460bb26c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601131003570.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, jerry gay wrote:

> that's the danger of coding perl at 6:56am.
> 
> my $file = 'foo.dll';
> open(local *PE, '<', my $file)
                       ^^
                       ??

>     or die qq{can't open $file: $!};
> binmode *PE;
> 
> should work much better for reading a file.

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.



From csimmons at whitepages.com  Mon Jan 16 14:39:59 2006
From: csimmons at whitepages.com (Craig Simmons)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:39:59 -0800
Subject: SPUG: January SPUG Meeting: 01/17/2006 at Whitepages.com
Message-ID: <A509452E69C29B468C496FFA9E36AAD752DA2F@post.corp.w3data.com>

All - 

Just a reminder that this month's SPUG meeting will take place at
Whitepages.com's offices in downtown Seattle tomorrow night, January
17th, at 6:30 PM. 

Tomorrow's meeting will feature talks by Mike Schuh and Dave Olszewski
on Perl/Tk and Perl/Gtk respectively. 

Whitepages.com is located on the 16th floor of the Rainier Square Tower
(1301 5th Avenue, Seattle) which is across from the 5th Avenue Theater.
If you need directions, visit " http://www.whitepagesinc.com/locations "
for a quick primer on how to reach us from various locations across
Puget Sound. 

There are plenty of locations to park in the area, including on the
street. If you're looking for off-street parking, you can park in the
Rainier Square garage which has an entrance on Union St. 

After 6PM, the building management restricts access to most floors. I'm
trying to take care of this, but if I'm unsuccessful, we'll station
someone on the 1st floor near the elevator bank and 5th Avenue entrance
to let people in. Worst case scenario, give me a call on my cell phone
(206-579-7113) and I'll run down to let you in.

Finally, we have a broad assortment of free sodas, fruit drinks, teas,
and coffee, and also have some snacks. You definitely won't dehydrate
here.

We look forward to seeing you!

Craig Simmons

Director of Product Development
W H I T E P A G E S .C O M  |  I N C
p: 206.973.5165   |   f: 206.621.1375
csimmons at whitepages.com
www.whitepagesinc.com

The information contained in this message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. 



From bill at celestial.com  Mon Jan 16 15:02:49 2006
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:02:49 -0800
Subject: SPUG: January SPUG Meeting: 01/17/2006 at Whitepages.com
In-Reply-To: <A509452E69C29B468C496FFA9E36AAD752DA2F@post.corp.w3data.com>
References: <A509452E69C29B468C496FFA9E36AAD752DA2F@post.corp.w3data.com>
Message-ID: <20060116230249.GB34561@alexis.mi.celestial.com>

On Mon, Jan 16, 2006, Craig Simmons wrote:
>All - 
>
>Just a reminder that this month's SPUG meeting will take place at
>Whitepages.com's offices in downtown Seattle tomorrow night, January
>17th, at 6:30 PM. 

Anybody on the east side want to meet at the Mercer Island Park
and Ride to carpool over?

Bill
--
INTERNET:   bill at Celestial.COM  Bill Campbell; Celestial Systems, Inc.
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
FAX:            (206) 232-9186  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676

Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics
won't take an interest in you. -- Pericles

From dblanchard at gmail.com  Mon Jan 16 15:55:16 2006
From: dblanchard at gmail.com (Duane Blanchard)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:55:16 -0800
Subject: SPUG: January SPUG Meeting: 01/17/2006 at Whitepages.com
In-Reply-To: <20060116230249.GB34561@alexis.mi.celestial.com>
References: <A509452E69C29B468C496FFA9E36AAD752DA2F@post.corp.w3data.com>
	<20060116230249.GB34561@alexis.mi.celestial.com>
Message-ID: <d2489e840601161555s67f0e5f1g6f4e0c41bf64e0d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Thanks for announcing the meeting, I've been swamped today with other
things. It seems that the time is passed for any suggestions on a
later time. Let's bring this up at the meeting if anyone thinks 6:30
is too early still (we'll wait till any late-comers have arrived).

As a reminder, street parking opens at 6:00 p.m. and Pacific Place is
between 3$ and 5$ after 5pm.

Mike will give a preview of a future talk on Perl-Tk.
I was told that Dave Olszewski will also provide some structured content.
I'd like to discuss a way to automatically synchronize my
bookmarks/favorites between computers either over IP or SneakerNet
(e.g. when I plug my USB drive in, it is checked for updates upon
connecting.
I hope some others will have some questions or didyaknows for us also.

In answer to Bill's question about carpooling, I work in BV, and live
in Seattle. I'll happily give you a ride from the P&R to WhitePages,
but you would need to find a ride back. Perhaps someone else lives in
BV and works in Seattle. Anyone?

Does anyone know the status of a projector?

Thanks all.

D
--
Duane Blanchard
206.280.1263

There are 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who know binary and those who don't.

From andrew at sweger.net  Mon Jan 16 18:33:48 2006
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:33:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: January SPUG Meeting: 01/17/2006 at Whitepages.com
In-Reply-To: <d2489e840601161555s67f0e5f1g6f4e0c41bf64e0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601161832500.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, Duane Blanchard wrote:

> Does anyone know the status of a projector?

If the meeting is in Whitepages.com's conference room, there's a built-in
one there (last time I was there many months ago).

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From andrew at sweger.net  Tue Jan 17 10:07:02 2006
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:07:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: SVK & Subversion (tonight?)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601171001390.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

If I'm able to make it to the meeting and we run out of time for more
Perlish things (and if I get a couple things installed on my laptop), I'll
offer to demonstrate how to get started using SVK. SVK is a compelling way
to work with various source code repositories. I will focus on Subversion
(SVN) as the backend repository.

(I've been using SVK for about eight months and just love the trouble it
keeps me out of.)

P.S. - SVK is written in Perl (if that matters).

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From lmzaldivar at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 13:19:22 2006
From: lmzaldivar at gmail.com (luis medrano)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:19:22 -0800
Subject: SPUG: regular expressions
Message-ID: <50aeae6f0601171319h19ba0791k3922618aec409e28@mail.gmail.com>

List,

I have a problem I need to modified some strings with the first
character of each word with a upper case for example:

from:

perl is number one

to

Perl Is Number One

my question is how can I do this using regular expressions?

Thanks,
Luis

From jmates at sial.org  Tue Jan 17 13:26:00 2006
From: jmates at sial.org (Jeremy Mates)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:26:00 -0800
Subject: SPUG: regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <50aeae6f0601171319h19ba0791k3922618aec409e28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50aeae6f0601171319h19ba0791k3922618aec409e28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060117212600.GA6029@neamh.sial.org>

* luis medrano <lmzaldivar at gmail.com>
> perl is number one
> to
> Perl Is Number One

Quick, dirty, and possibly missing all sorts of edge cases:

echo test ing | perl -pe 's/\b(\w)/\U$1/g'

Depending on what you are doing, also consider {case => title} or {case
=> highlight} of the nifty Text::Autoformat module.

http://search.cpan.org/perldoc/Text::Autoformat


From stephen.menton at cingular.com  Tue Jan 17 13:37:56 2006
From: stephen.menton at cingular.com (Menton, Stephen)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:37:56 -0800
Subject: SPUG: regular expressions
Message-ID: <C2B77C66178C7443BB31F5AB4CF3D910515C6F@WA-MSG16-BTH.wireless.attws.com>

I'd opt for 's/(\w+)/\u$1/g' if you want to leave the remaining
characters untouched, 's/(\w+)/\u\L$1/g' if you want to force all other
letters to be lowercase.

steve

-----Original Message-----
From: spug-list-bounces at pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces at pm.org] On
Behalf Of luis medrano
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 13:19
To: spug-list at pm.org
Subject: SPUG: regular expressions


List,

I have a problem I need to modified some strings with the first
character of each word with a upper case for example:

from:

perl is number one

to

Perl Is Number One

my question is how can I do this using regular expressions?

Thanks,
Luis _____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
     POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

From rrue at fhcrc.org  Tue Jan 17 14:07:14 2006
From: rrue at fhcrc.org (Randy Rue)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:07:14 -0800
Subject: SPUG: regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <20060117212600.GA6029@neamh.sial.org>
References: <50aeae6f0601171319h19ba0791k3922618aec409e28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060117212600.GA6029@neamh.sial.org>
Message-ID: <43CD6A92.6040404@fhcrc.org>

Bear with me for a newbie question, I'm right at the second regex 
chapeter in Learning Pearl and this question caught my attention:

What does the (\w) in the pattern do to the \b word separator? I thought 
it might give whitespace as the word delimiter (and so keep words like 
"that's" as a single word) but the output still comes out as "That'S."

How else could I treat contractions?

Randy Rue

Jeremy Mates wrote:
> * luis medrano <lmzaldivar at gmail.com>
> 
>>perl is number one
>>to
>>Perl Is Number One
> 
> 
> Quick, dirty, and possibly missing all sorts of edge cases:
> 
> echo test ing | perl -pe 's/\b(\w)/\U$1/g'
> 
> Depending on what you are doing, also consider {case => title} or {case
> => highlight} of the nifty Text::Autoformat module.
> 
> http://search.cpan.org/perldoc/Text::Autoformat
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

-- 
Randall Rue
System Administrator
IT, Server Operations
Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center
1100 Fairview Ave N #J4-414
Seattle, WA 98109-1024
USA
(206) 667-3662
FAX (206) 667-7733

From sthoenna at efn.org  Tue Jan 17 14:14:24 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:14:24 -0800
Subject: SPUG: regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <43CD6A92.6040404@fhcrc.org>
References: <50aeae6f0601171319h19ba0791k3922618aec409e28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060117212600.GA6029@neamh.sial.org> <43CD6A92.6040404@fhcrc.org>
Message-ID: <20060117221423.GD3804@efn.org>

On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 02:07:14PM -0800, Randy Rue wrote:
> Bear with me for a newbie question, I'm right at the second regex 
> chapeter in Learning Pearl and this question caught my attention:
> 
> What does the (\w) in the pattern do to the \b word separator? I thought 
> it might give whitespace as the word delimiter (and so keep words like 
> "that's" as a single word) but the output still comes out as "That'S."
> 
> How else could I treat contractions?

Whitespace as word delimiter doesn't work if you have 'quoted text'.

Contractions are messy, something like:

s/\b(?<!\w')(\w+)/\u$1/g

From m3047 at inwa.net  Tue Jan 17 14:29:40 2006
From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:29:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: \b \w \s etc. Re:  regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <43CD6A92.6040404@fhcrc.org>
References: <50aeae6f0601171319h19ba0791k3922618aec409e28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060117212600.GA6029@neamh.sial.org> <43CD6A92.6040404@fhcrc.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0601171410100.24016@flame.m3047.inwa.net>

\b is a zero-width assertion, meaning that it doesn't consume anything. It
matches between what \W\w or \w\W would match.

\w ("word") is not quite the opposite of \S ("not space"), due to
punctuation, etc. Contrast these:

echo "testing's tricky" | perl -pe 's/((?:^|\W)\w)/\U$1/g'

echo "testing's tricky" | perl -pe 's/((?:^|\s)\S)/\U$1/g'

--

Fred Morris

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, Randy Rue wrote:

> What does the (\w) in the pattern do to the \b word separator? I thought
> it might give whitespace as the word delimiter (and so keep words like
> "that's" as a single word) but the output still comes out as "That'S."
>
> How else could I treat contractions?
>
> Randy Rue
>
> Jeremy Mates wrote:
> > * luis medrano <lmzaldivar at gmail.com>
> >
> >>perl is number one
> >>to
> >>Perl Is Number One
> >
> >
> > Quick, dirty, and possibly missing all sorts of edge cases:
> >
> > echo test ing | perl -pe 's/\b(\w)/\U$1/g'
> >

From kenslinux at shaw.ca  Tue Jan 17 14:31:46 2006
From: kenslinux at shaw.ca (Ken Clarke)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:31:46 -0800
Subject: SPUG: regular expressions
References: <50aeae6f0601171319h19ba0791k3922618aec409e28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060117212600.GA6029@neamh.sial.org> <43CD6A92.6040404@fhcrc.org>
Message-ID: <001601c61bb5$cd43a1f0$1000a8c0@kens>

To identify the beginning of a word, match on the beginning of the string or 
a space character, followed by a letter.  Also might as well only match on a 
lower case letter since that's all you want to change.

$sentence =~ s/(^|\s)([a-z])/$1\U$2/g;

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Rue" <rrue at fhcrc.org>
To: <spug-list at pm.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: SPUG: regular expressions


> Bear with me for a newbie question, I'm right at the second regex
> chapeter in Learning Pearl and this question caught my attention:
>
> What does the (\w) in the pattern do to the \b word separator? I thought
> it might give whitespace as the word delimiter (and so keep words like
> "that's" as a single word) but the output still comes out as "That'S."
>
> How else could I treat contractions?
>
> Randy Rue
>
> Jeremy Mates wrote:
>> * luis medrano <lmzaldivar at gmail.com>
>>
>>>perl is number one
>>>to
>>>Perl Is Number One
>>
>>
>> Quick, dirty, and possibly missing all sorts of edge cases:
>>
>> echo test ing | perl -pe 's/\b(\w)/\U$1/g'
>>
>> Depending on what you are doing, also consider {case => title} or {case
>> => highlight} of the nifty Text::Autoformat module.
>>
>> http://search.cpan.org/perldoc/Text::Autoformat
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________
>> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
>> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
>>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>
> -- 
> Randall Rue
> System Administrator
> IT, Server Operations
> Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center
> 1100 Fairview Ave N #J4-414
> Seattle, WA 98109-1024
> USA
> (206) 667-3662
> FAX (206) 667-7733
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>     POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
>    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ 


From james at banshee.com  Tue Jan 17 16:10:27 2006
From: james at banshee.com (James Moore)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:10:27 -0800
Subject: SPUG: CSV module that can handle multi-line entries?
Message-ID: <200601180010.k0I0AIjQ021325@server2.banshee.com>

I'm reading Outlook contact books, in what Outlook thinks of as CSV.  They
look like:

"foo","this
entry spans two lines"" and has an embedded quote",bar,snark

Anyone know of a module that does this?  All the CSV parsing I'm finding
breaks with multiline quoted entries.

 - James


From sthoenna at efn.org  Tue Jan 17 22:03:05 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:03:05 -0800
Subject: SPUG: CSV module that can handle multi-line entries?
In-Reply-To: <200601180010.k0I0AIjQ021325@server2.banshee.com>
References: <200601180010.k0I0AIjQ021325@server2.banshee.com>
Message-ID: <20060118060305.GA2040@efn.org>

On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 04:10:27PM -0800, James Moore wrote:
> I'm reading Outlook contact books, in what Outlook thinks of as CSV.  They
> look like:
> 
> "foo","this
> entry spans two lines"" and has an embedded quote",bar,snark
> 
> Anyone know of a module that does this?  All the CSV parsing I'm finding
> breaks with multiline quoted entries.

I think Text::CSV_XS may do that.

From benb at speakeasy.net  Wed Jan 18 12:40:04 2006
From: benb at speakeasy.net (BenRifkah Burnett)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:40:04 -0000
Subject: SPUG: Looking for HB that I met at the meeting last night
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060218124026.02b6b040@mail.speakeasy.net>

Hey All,

Thanks for the great presentations at the meeting last night.  I met a 
gentleman named HB (could have been HP?) working with IMDb and was hoping 
to talk more after the meeting, but he had to leave early.  If you're 
lurking out there please contact me.

Thanks,

-- Ben Burnett


From moonbeam at catmanor.com  Wed Jan 18 16:36:20 2006
From: moonbeam at catmanor.com (William Julien)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:36:20 -0800
Subject: SPUG: CSV module that can handle multi-line entries?
In-Reply-To: <200601180010.k0I0AIjQ021325@server2.banshee.com>
References: <200601180010.k0I0AIjQ021325@server2.banshee.com>
Message-ID: <57534616-66CC-471F-A147-8400DC31109B@catmanor.com>

Try this...

#!/usr/bin/perl -w
#
$text= ',A,cool "cat",A B,"A,B","A,""B"","A,\""B","A,\\\ 
\""B",,B,"foo","this
entry spans two lines"" and has an embedded quote",bar,snark';
print "Original text\n\n",$text . "\n\n";

    @fields = ();
    push(@fields, defined($+)?scalar($_=$+,$_ =~ s/""/"/g,$_):undef)
      while $text =~ m{
       "([^\"]*(?:\"\"[^\"]*)*)",?     ## standard string, w/  
possible comma
     | ([^,]+),?                       ## anything else, w/ possible  
comma
     | ,                               ## lone comma
    }gx;
    ## final empty field for trailing comma
    push(@fields, undef) if substr($text, -1, 1) eq ',';

print "csv deliminated text\n\n";
printf "%6s%12s\n","field","data\n";

for ($i = $[; $i <= $#fields; $i++) {
     printf "%6s %12s", $i . " |" ,
            (defined($fields[$i])?$fields[$i]:"undefined") . "|\n";
}

On Jan 17, 2006, at 4:10 PM, James Moore wrote:

> "foo","this
> entry spans two lines"" and has an embedded quote",bar,snark


From andrew at sweger.net  Wed Jan 18 17:02:31 2006
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:02:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: more love for SVK
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601181649320.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

I gave a short (very short and fast) review of using SVK for source code
management at the meeting last night. I just discovered a very handy trick
that SVK knows: auto-merging

If you create a branch, e.g.,

  svk cp $SVN/trunk $SVN/branches/newfeature

...time passes as you work on newfeature...

Later, you,

  cd newfeature-working-dir
  svk pull
  svk merge -a $SVN/trunk
  svk up

will bring you up-to-date with the trunk without searching the logs for
revision number ranges. Later, when you're ready to merge your branch to
the trunk,

  svk co $SVN/trunk
  cd trunk
  svk merge -a $SVN/branches/newfeature

Whoa. Niiiiice. The SVKBook is a little behind development (imagine
that!).

Of course, it's not as simple as that in reality. You still need
discipline and policies for collaborators. But my goodness, does that ever
take out one of the big headaches of merging. Oh, and conflicts: SVK will
prompt you file-by-file if you like to ask how you want to handle
conflicts (and even offers to show a diff).

There's also a "successor" to SVK called SVL. It's a peer-to-peer revision
manager that helps people work as a group with each using an isolated
repository. It even works over Zeroconf (aka Apple Computer's Bonjour, nee
Rendezvous) with auto-discovery of nearby repositories. Scary stuff. There
was a demo at last year's OSCON in Portland (Leon Brocard & Artur
Bergman).

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From cxreg at pobox.com  Wed Jan 18 22:25:25 2006
From: cxreg at pobox.com (Dave O)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:25:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: SPUG: CSV module that can handle multi-line entries?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0601190015450.3097@narbuckle.genericorp.net>

On Tue Jan 17 22:03:05 PST 2006, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 04:10:27PM -0800, James Moore wrote:
> > I'm reading Outlook contact books, in what Outlook thinks of as CSV.  They
> > look like:
> >
> > "foo","this
> > entry spans two lines"" and has an embedded quote",bar,snark
> >
> > Anyone know of a module that does this?  All the CSV parsing I'm finding
> > breaks with multiline quoted entries.
>
> I think Text::CSV_XS may do that.

I can confirm that this is the case, provided you pass the binary => 1
option to new().

Quoth the POD:

    binary  If this attribute is TRUE, you may use binary characters in
            quoted fields, including line feeds, carriage returns and
            NUL bytes. (The latter must be escaped as ""0".) By default
            this feature is off.

and an example:

perl -MData::Dumper -MText::CSV_XS -e '
  my $csv = Text::CSV_XS->new({binary=>1});
  $csv->parse(qq^"foo","bar\nbaz",biff^);
  print Dumper [$csv->fields]'

$VAR1 = [
          'foo',
          'bar
baz',
          'biff'
        ];


	Dave

From sthoenna at efn.org  Thu Jan 19 03:26:39 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:26:39 -0800
Subject: SPUG: CSV module that can handle multi-line entries?
In-Reply-To: <20060118060305.GA2040@efn.org>
References: <200601180010.k0I0AIjQ021325@server2.banshee.com>
	<20060118060305.GA2040@efn.org>
Message-ID: <20060119112639.GB3496@efn.org>

On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 10:03:05PM -0800, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 04:10:27PM -0800, James Moore wrote:
> > I'm reading Outlook contact books, in what Outlook thinks of as CSV.  They
> > look like:
> > 
> > "foo","this
> > entry spans two lines"" and has an embedded quote",bar,snark
> > 
> > Anyone know of a module that does this?  All the CSV parsing I'm finding
> > breaks with multiline quoted entries.
> 
> I think Text::CSV_XS may do that.

Sorry, it was Text::xSV I was thinking of.

From andrew at seattleperl.org  Fri Jan 20 09:43:05 2006
From: andrew at seattleperl.org (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:43:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: SPUG volunteer coordination mailing list
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601200931420.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

I have created (well, actually David Cross created) a mailing list for
SPUG activity coordination. This is to help support the distributed nature
of our volunteer efforts without cluttering this list with administrivia.

The list is publicly archived and anyone is welcome to subscribe.
Currently, only subscribers may post to the list (but I suspect this will
need to change at some point).

To subscribe, please go to the following link.

http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-admin

Thank you.

Ob-Perlish:

David Golden has published his slides[1] for his Inside-Out Objects talk
at the recent Perl Seminar New York. Things have advanced even more since
Damian Conway's Perl Best Practices book; my first practical introduction
to the concept. I talked to David about visiting Seattle sometime this
year to give his presentation. He's itching for a PNW visit (perhaps to
coincide with OSCON '06). Keep your fingers crossed.

[1] - http://dagolden.com/talks/20060117_whats_all_the_fuss.pdf

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger           |  P.O. Box 33147
President                  |  Seattle WA 98133
Seattle Perl Users Group   |  (206) 219-7119
andrew{at}seattleperl.org  |  http://seattleperl.org/


From schieb at centurytel.net  Fri Jan 20 23:06:07 2006
From: schieb at centurytel.net (Islandman)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:06:07 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
Message-ID: <200601210706.k0L768q6025389@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>

I have some job interviews coming up, one in PERL where I'm to do the "code
this on the fly on the whiteboard" exercise. I've worked in PERL quite a bit
over the years but during the last 2 years have had my mind warped by .NET
work and frankly feel awfully rusty for such an instant recall exercise. 

What would you recommend for a quick cram to try to be as ready as possible
for such an interview?

Thanks,
-Brian
 



From spug at i4031.net  Sat Jan 21 03:49:20 2006
From: spug at i4031.net (David Robins)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 05:49:20 -0600
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <200601210706.k0L768q6025389@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>
References: <200601210706.k0L768q6025389@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <200601210549.20829.spug@i4031.net>

On Saturday January 21, 2006 01:06, Islandman wrote:
> I have some job interviews coming up, one in PERL where I'm to do the "code
> this on the fly on the whiteboard" exercise. I've worked in PERL quite a bit
> over the years but during the last 2 years have had my mind warped by .NET
> work and frankly feel awfully rusty for such an instant recall exercise. 
> 
> What would you recommend for a quick cram to try to be as ready as possible
> for such an interview?

Skim the Camel book (Programming Perl) perhaps, if you have it?  Read perldoc 
perltoc and look at any pages that are fuzzy?  Look over perl code you've got 
hanging around and make sure you understand it?

Chances are they'll be fairly lenient as far as minor misremembrances as long 
as you have the core algorithm and structure correct.

(Nitpick: don't all-cap Perl.)

-- 
Dave
Isa. 40:31

From cos at indeterminate.net  Sat Jan 21 11:54:35 2006
From: cos at indeterminate.net (John Costello)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:54:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <200601210706.k0L768q6025389@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0601211153310.7973-100000@olivia.indeterminate.net>

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Islandman wrote:
> I have some job interviews coming up, one in PERL where I'm to do the "code
> this on the fly on the whiteboard" exercise. I've worked in PERL quite a bit
> over the years but during the last 2 years have had my mind warped by .NET
> work and frankly feel awfully rusty for such an instant recall exercise. 
> 
> What would you recommend for a quick cram to try to be as ready as possible
> for such an interview?

Dust off your regexp.  That's always useful.
 

-----
John Costello - cos at indeterminate dot net



From andrew at sweger.net  Sat Jan 21 16:34:58 2006
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 16:34:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: SPUG volunteer coordination mailing list
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601200931420.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601211632080.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

Oops. It turns out "spug-admin" is a bad choice for a mail-list name on
the Mailman system. It has special meaning internally to Mailman. I'll
announce a replacement within a few days. For those already subscribed to
spug-admin, you won't need to re-subscribe. Sorry for the delay.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Andrew Sweger wrote:

> I have created (well, actually David Cross created) a mailing list for
> SPUG activity coordination. This is to help support the distributed nature
> of our volunteer efforts without cluttering this list with administrivia.
> 
> The list is publicly archived and anyone is welcome to subscribe.
> Currently, only subscribers may post to the list (but I suspect this will
> need to change at some point).
> 
> To subscribe, please go to the following link.
> 
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-admin
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Ob-Perlish:
> 
> David Golden has published his slides[1] for his Inside-Out Objects talk
> at the recent Perl Seminar New York. Things have advanced even more since
> Damian Conway's Perl Best Practices book; my first practical introduction
> to the concept. I talked to David about visiting Seattle sometime this
> year to give his presentation. He's itching for a PNW visit (perhaps to
> coincide with OSCON '06). Keep your fingers crossed.
> 
> [1] - http://dagolden.com/talks/20060117_whats_all_the_fuss.pdf
> 
> 

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From creede at penguinsinthenight.com  Sat Jan 21 23:04:59 2006
From: creede at penguinsinthenight.com (Creede Lambard)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 23:04:59 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <200601210706.k0L768q6025389@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>
References: <200601210706.k0L768q6025389@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <20060122070458.GB17641@boris.penguinsinthenight.com>

Come up with a good way to reverse a string. I get asked that about two out
of three interviews, it seems like. Oh, and no one seems to like 

  print join ('', reverse( split (//, $string)));

which seems unfair to me. I mean, if they're going to expect me to use Perl,
I should be able to use Perl, not use Perl in a particular way they mandate
(they seem to always want something that uses substr).

You might also just want to go through a basic reference like O'Reilly's
Perl Pocket Reference. In my experience the interviewers usually just ask
simple stuff, like the aforementioned revering a string. I've had them ask
me how to determine the intersection of two arrays (e.g. find the common
elements between qw( a b c d e ) and qw( a h j c r ) and similar relatively
simple problems. The most complicated question I ever had was how to create
a system for parsing a particular kind of configuration file. The
interviewer and I ended up collaborating on a pair of LIFO stacks working in
tandem. (I got that job, by the way!)


On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 11:06:07PM -0800, Islandman wrote:
> I have some job interviews coming up, one in PERL where I'm to do the "code
> this on the fly on the whiteboard" exercise. I've worked in PERL quite a bit
> over the years but during the last 2 years have had my mind warped by .NET
> work and frankly feel awfully rusty for such an instant recall exercise. 
> 
> What would you recommend for a quick cram to try to be as ready as possible
> for such an interview?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Brian
>  

-- 
===================================================================
                               * .~. (   : Creede Lambard         :
 Never rush a miracle man.    . / V \  . :------------------------:
 You get lousy miracles.       /(   )\   : creede at              :
--------------------------------^^-^^----:     penguinsinthenight :  
 Linux. Reliable and free. Pick any two. :         dot com        :
===================================================================

From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Sat Jan 21 23:22:09 2006
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:22:09 +1100
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <20060122070458.GB17641@boris.penguinsinthenight.com>
References: <200601210706.k0L768q6025389@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>
	<20060122070458.GB17641@boris.penguinsinthenight.com>
Message-ID: <43D332A1.6040402@perltraining.com.au>


Creede Lambard wrote:
> Come up with a good way to reverse a string. I get asked that about two out
> of three interviews, it seems like. Oh, and no one seems to like 
> 
>   print join ('', reverse( split (//, $string)));

What's wrong with:

	print scalar reverse $string;

?  It's much less complicated.  Or for those who get confused:

	print scalar( reverse $string );

Reverse in a list context reverses the elements of the list.  To reverse a list
of one element, you do nothing, so:

	print reverse $string;

does nothing (print supplies a list context).  Reverse in a scalar context
concatenates its arguments and then reverses by character.  The above solution
could also be written:

	print reverse $string ."\n";

but that confuses people who then transcribe that with a comma, removing the
scalar context that . supplies.  ;)  My favourite twist on this question is to ask:

	reverse a string:  eg reverse this -> siht esrever
	reverse just the word order in the string:
	                   eg reverse this -> this reverse

and then if you're feeling clever:
	reverse the words leaving them in place:
	                   eg reverse this -> esrever siht

It's a good test to see if the person has a good grasp of context.

All the best,

	Jacinta

-- 
   ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._          |  Jacinta Richardson         |
    `6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.`)  |  Perl Training Australia    |
    (_Y_.)'  ._   )  `._ `. ``-..-'   |      +61 3 9354 6001        |
  _..`--'_..-_/  /--'_.' ,'           | contact at perltraining.com.au |
 (il),-''  (li),'  ((!.-'             |   www.perltraining.com.au   |



From m3047 at inwa.net  Sun Jan 22 10:55:03 2006
From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:55:03 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
Message-ID: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>

An observation about current interviewing fads and developer team culture...


What you're alluding to, I think, is the (questionable) notion that if you
push people out of their realm of knowledge then you'll learn something
(what, exactly?). In this scenario, whatever answer you give first is the
"wrong" answer, they'll always want it done another way.

The biggest pitfall is implied by your comments that you've come up with
another way to do it: if you keep this from the interviewers and struggle a
bit and then magically out pops another clever answer you've rigged the
problem.


The thing I hate about hypothetical white board problems in general are how
poorly thought out they usually are, unless they are of the extremely
simple and clever variety. Oftentimes the question and attempts at followup
reveal a telling lack of grasp of the big picture by the interviewers
themselves, and in that environment just how ultimately useful is
cleverness going to prove to be?


The interview question I haven't been asked lately...

Which comes first:

* optimization
* correctness
* working code


At 11:04 PM 1/21/06, Creede Lambard wrote:
>Come up with a good way to reverse a string. I get asked that about two out
>of three interviews, it seems like. Oh, and no one seems to like
>
>  print join ('', reverse( split (//, $string)));
>
>which seems unfair to me. I mean, if they're going to expect me to use Perl,
>I should be able to use Perl, not use Perl in a particular way they mandate
>(they seem to always want something that uses substr). [...]

--

Fred Morris



From jlb at io.com  Sun Jan 22 11:05:19 2006
From: jlb at io.com (jlb)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:05:19 -0600 (CST)
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>
References: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>
Message-ID: <20060122130149.D71088@eris.io.com>

I think the best Perl question I was ever asked in an interview was along 
the lines of "So, you like Perl, huh?  Show me one of your favorite perl 
tricks."

On the line of brushing up before an interview, I can't think of 
anything I'd recommend more than _Effective Perl Programming_ to 
start you thinking Perl again.

Not that I'd use all the toys outlined in that book during an interview 
whiteboard session, but in me, at least, that book gets me thinking the 
right way.

Jon

From sthoenna at efn.org  Sun Jan 22 21:48:13 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:48:13 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <20060122070458.GB17641@boris.penguinsinthenight.com>
References: <200601210706.k0L768q6025389@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>
	<20060122070458.GB17641@boris.penguinsinthenight.com>
Message-ID: <20060123054813.GA3172@efn.org>

On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 11:04:59PM -0800, Creede Lambard wrote:
> Come up with a good way to reverse a string. I get asked that about two out
> of three interviews, it seems like. Oh, and no one seems to like 
> 
>   print join ('', reverse( split (//, $string)));
> 
> which seems unfair to me. I mean, if they're going to expect me to use Perl,
> I should be able to use Perl, not use Perl in a particular way they mandate
> (they seem to always want something that uses substr).

So they want something like

substr$string,0,0,substr$string,-1,1,""for 1..length$string

?

From charles.e.derykus at boeing.com  Mon Jan 23 05:47:17 2006
From: charles.e.derykus at boeing.com (DeRykus, Charles E)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 05:47:17 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
Message-ID: <FE10499CE029B841A9DAAF12E5A52A1B011D8F32@XCH-NW-3V1.nw.nos.boeing.com>

 

On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 11:04:59PM -0800, Creede Lambard wrote:
> Come up with a good way to reverse a string. I get asked that about 
> two out of three interviews, it seems like. Oh, and no one seems to 
> like
> 
>   print join ('', reverse( split (//, $string)));
> 
> which seems unfair to me. I mean, if they're going to expect me to use

> Perl, I should be able to use Perl, not use Perl in a particular way 
> they mandate (they seem to always want something that uses substr).

YST >> So they want something like

YST >> substr$string,0,0,substr$string,-1,1,""for 1..length$string

Cool. If I look up substr's 4th arg and run Deparse, a self-consuming
dragon 
comes into focus:

$ perl -MO=Deparse,-p -e 'substr$string,0,0,substr$string,-1,1,""for
1..length'
foreach $_ (1 .. length($string)) {
    substr($string, 0, 0, substr($string, (-1), 1, ''));
}
-e syntax OK

Too bad interviews aren't Jeopardy-style :)

-- 
Charles DeRykus




From spud at spudzeppelin.com  Mon Jan 23 08:32:58 2006
From: spud at spudzeppelin.com (Jeff Almeida)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:32:58 -0600
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>
References: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>
Message-ID: <479E95FF-9CA6-4303-8254-FD457AB24406@spudzeppelin.com>

<minimalist-hat>

correctness.

at it's root (ok bad pun), all code is a collection of patches to / 
bin/true.... that is:

int main() {
	return 1;
}

which is in a sense, the algebraic kernel of the software vector- 
space.  it's also conveniently correct and canonically bug-free.  any  
patch to this (that is, any collection of vectors added to this  
"zero" point) which introduces a bug breaks correctness.

</minimalist-hat>

then from a practical perspective, the next two things are working  
code and optimization, which in most cases will iterate (you'll  
optimize something, then have to make it "work" again from some  
user's perspective, and so on)....

my (slightly heavy) two cents,
jeff

On Jan 22, 2006, at 12:55 PM, Fred Morris wrote:

>
>
> The interview question I haven't been asked lately...
>
> Which comes first:
>
> * optimization
> * correctness
> * working code
>

****************************************
Jeff D. Almeida * Corinth, TX
spud at spudzeppelin.com
****************************************





From rrue at fhcrc.org  Mon Jan 23 09:30:03 2006
From: rrue at fhcrc.org (Randy Rue)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:30:03 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>
References: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>
Message-ID: <43D5129B.4090109@fhcrc.org>

Great question, and of course the short answer is "It depends."

Years before I ever heard the project management term "triple 
constraint" a contractor friend of mine (contractor like hammer and 
nails and a white pickup truck, not like dev-for-hire) asked me if I 
wanted the job done "fast, cheap, or right, pick any two." I've never 
heard the concept explained better since.

So the answer to "which comes first" depends on the situation and the 
priorities of the consumer. Is this app a heavy resource user? Tune it. 
Is it expected to be in use for a long time and maintained by baboons? 
Make it correct, avoid cryptic shortcuts, and comment the bejeezus out 
of it. Are we all fired if it's not running by noon? Fix it now!

Assuming no constraints? Make it correct, even if it means getting not 
it working as quickly. Get it working. Then see about tuning it.

My unsolicited $0.02.

Randy Rue



Fred Morris wrote:
  > The interview question I haven't been asked lately...
> 
> Which comes first:
> 
> * optimization
> * correctness
> * working code
> 
> 
> At 11:04 PM 1/21/06, Creede Lambard wrote:
> 
>>Come up with a good way to reverse a string. I get asked that about two out
>>of three interviews, it seems like. Oh, and no one seems to like
>>
>> print join ('', reverse( split (//, $string)));
>>
>>which seems unfair to me. I mean, if they're going to expect me to use Perl,
>>I should be able to use Perl, not use Perl in a particular way they mandate
>>(they seem to always want something that uses substr). [...]
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Fred Morris
> 
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

From sthoenna at efn.org  Mon Jan 23 09:59:59 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:59:59 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <479E95FF-9CA6-4303-8254-FD457AB24406@spudzeppelin.com>
References: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>
	<479E95FF-9CA6-4303-8254-FD457AB24406@spudzeppelin.com>
Message-ID: <20060123175959.GD2188@efn.org>

On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 10:32:58AM -0600, Jeff Almeida wrote:
> <minimalist-hat>
> 
> correctness.
> 
> at it's root (ok bad pun), all code is a collection of patches to / 
> bin/true.... that is:
> 
> int main() {
> 	return 1;
> }
> 
> which is in a sense, the algebraic kernel of the software vector- 
> space.  it's also conveniently correct and canonically bug-free.

I've worked on a platform where the above is buggy.  Canonically bug-free
would be more like:

#include <stdlib.h>
#ifndef EXIT_SUCCESS
#define EXIT_SUCCESS 1
#endif

int main(int argc, char *argv[], char *envp[]) {
   return EXIT_SUCCESS;
}

From pdarley at kinesis-cem.com  Mon Jan 23 10:06:00 2006
From: pdarley at kinesis-cem.com (Peter Darley)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:06:00 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <43D5129B.4090109@fhcrc.org>
Message-ID: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPOEGJEAAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>

Folks,
	I gotta go with Correct first every time.  Nobody cares how fast or stable
a calculator is if it gives you 2+2=4345 or an email client is if it sends
email to the wrong address.
Thanks,
Peter Darley

-----Original Message-----
From: spug-list-bounces at pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces at pm.org]On
Behalf Of Randy Rue
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:30 AM
To: spug-list at pm.org
Subject: Re: SPUG: PERL technical interview


Great question, and of course the short answer is "It depends."

Years before I ever heard the project management term "triple
constraint" a contractor friend of mine (contractor like hammer and
nails and a white pickup truck, not like dev-for-hire) asked me if I
wanted the job done "fast, cheap, or right, pick any two." I've never
heard the concept explained better since.

So the answer to "which comes first" depends on the situation and the
priorities of the consumer. Is this app a heavy resource user? Tune it.
Is it expected to be in use for a long time and maintained by baboons?
Make it correct, avoid cryptic shortcuts, and comment the bejeezus out
of it. Are we all fired if it's not running by noon? Fix it now!

Assuming no constraints? Make it correct, even if it means getting not
it working as quickly. Get it working. Then see about tuning it.

My unsolicited $0.02.

Randy Rue


From jazzdev at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 10:58:01 2006
From: jazzdev at gmail.com (JD Brennan)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:58:01 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <20060122070458.GB17641@boris.penguinsinthenight.com>
References: <200601210706.k0L768q6025389@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>
	<20060122070458.GB17641@boris.penguinsinthenight.com>
Message-ID: <e3c3926f0601231058x27f2820cx63eea04b32c55053@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/21/06, Creede Lambard <creede at penguinsinthenight.com> wrote:
>
> Come up with a good way to reverse a string. I get asked that about two
> out
> of three interviews, it seems like. Oh, and no one seems to like
>
>   print join ('', reverse( split (//, $string)));
>
> which seems unfair to me. I mean, if they're going to expect me to use
> Perl,
> I should be able to use Perl, not use Perl in a particular way they
> mandate


The goal of the interview coding question is to try
to gain insight into how you think and how you tackle
problems.   So asking for more than one solution can
enable the interviewer to gain more insight.

JD
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From jazzdev at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 11:02:44 2006
From: jazzdev at gmail.com (JD Brennan)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:02:44 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <e3c3926f0601231101m77837fb8s8a625a866fe83d8c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@10.0.0.251> <43D5129B.4090109@fhcrc.org>
	<e3c3926f0601231101m77837fb8s8a625a866fe83d8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3c3926f0601231102l2adb07dfoffbcd97904ea8dff@mail.gmail.com>

That is a great question.  And there's probably no one
correct answer.  My answer would be working code,
since optimized code that doesn't work and correct
code that doesn't work has less business value than
working code.

JD

On 1/23/06, Randy Rue <rrue at fhcrc.org> wrote:
>
> Great question, and of course the short answer is "It depends."
>
> Years before I ever heard the project management term "triple
> constraint" a contractor friend of mine (contractor like hammer and
> nails and a white pickup truck, not like dev-for-hire) asked me if I
> wanted the job done "fast, cheap, or right, pick any two." I've never
> heard the concept explained better since.
>
> So the answer to "which comes first" depends on the situation and the
> priorities of the consumer. Is this app a heavy resource user? Tune it.
> Is it expected to be in use for a long time and maintained by baboons?
> Make it correct, avoid cryptic shortcuts, and comment the bejeezus out
> of it. Are we all fired if it's not running by noon? Fix it now!
>
> Assuming no constraints? Make it correct, even if it means getting not
> it working as quickly. Get it working. Then see about tuning it.
>
> My unsolicited $0.02.
>
> Randy Rue
>
>
>
> Fred Morris wrote:
>   > The interview question I haven't been asked lately...
> >
> > Which comes first:
> >
> > * optimization
> > * correctness
> > * working code
> >
> >
> > At 11:04 PM 1/21/06, Creede Lambard wrote:
> >
> >>Come up with a good way to reverse a string. I get asked that about two
> out
> >>of three interviews, it seems like. Oh, and no one seems to like
> >>
> >> print join ('', reverse( split (//, $string)));
> >>
> >>which seems unfair to me. I mean, if they're going to expect me to use
> Perl,
> >>I should be able to use Perl, not use Perl in a particular way they
> mandate
> >>(they seem to always want something that uses substr). [...]
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Fred Morris
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
> >      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> >     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
> >     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>
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From andrew at sweger.net  Mon Jan 23 11:08:16 2006
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:08:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: SPUG volunteer coordination mailing list
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601211632080.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601231104590.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

The new list is now working and already humming with activity. To
subscribe, please go to:

  http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-workers

That's right. The list name is SPUG-Workers. It almost sounds like a
political party. SPUG Workers of the world untie!

tie() should be deprecated anyway ;)

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006, Andrew Sweger wrote:

> Oops. It turns out "spug-admin" is a bad choice for a mail-list name on
> the Mailman system. It has special meaning internally to Mailman. I'll
> announce a replacement within a few days. For those already subscribed to
> spug-admin, you won't need to re-subscribe. Sorry for the delay.

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From spud at spudzeppelin.com  Mon Jan 23 10:35:36 2006
From: spud at spudzeppelin.com (Jeff Almeida)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:35:36 -0600
Subject: SPUG: OT: Re:  PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <20060123175959.GD2188@efn.org>
References: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>
	<479E95FF-9CA6-4303-8254-FD457AB24406@spudzeppelin.com>
	<20060123175959.GD2188@efn.org>
Message-ID: <D762E087-FEB0-4EA6-AC02-93433ADB5916@spudzeppelin.com>

wow!  forcing you to accept command-line arguments and potentially  
redefining a successful exit as something other than 1?

mind if i ask which platform?

but you're right of course -- what is "canonically bug-free" for a  
null program depends on your definition of the canon.

jeff

On Jan 23, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 10:32:58AM -0600, Jeff Almeida wrote:
>> <minimalist-hat>
>>
>> correctness.
>>
>> at it's root (ok bad pun), all code is a collection of patches to /
>> bin/true.... that is:
>>
>> int main() {
>> 	return 1;
>> }
>>
>> which is in a sense, the algebraic kernel of the software vector-
>> space.  it's also conveniently correct and canonically bug-free.
>
> I've worked on a platform where the above is buggy.  Canonically  
> bug-free
> would be more like:
>
> #include <stdlib.h>
> #ifndef EXIT_SUCCESS
> #define EXIT_SUCCESS 1
> #endif
>
> int main(int argc, char *argv[], char *envp[]) {
>    return EXIT_SUCCESS;
> }

****************************************
Jeff D. Almeida * Corinth, TX
spud at spudzeppelin.com
****************************************





From m3047 at inwa.net  Mon Jan 23 11:27:26 2006
From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:27:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: OT: Re:  PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <D762E087-FEB0-4EA6-AC02-93433ADB5916@spudzeppelin.com>
References: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>
	<479E95FF-9CA6-4303-8254-FD457AB24406@spudzeppelin.com>
	<20060123175959.GD2188@efn.org>
	<D762E087-FEB0-4EA6-AC02-93433ADB5916@spudzeppelin.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0601231121150.28252@flame.m3047.inwa.net>

I am so danged confused now. Completely blew off the fact that it wasn't
Perl, and also that the exit code was 1. Now, if I recall correctly, 0 is
success on .*[rn].*[sx]. Odd (e.g. 1) is success on VMS.

Ob Perl: reblessing works very well, thanks.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Jeff Almeida wrote:

> wow!  forcing you to accept command-line arguments and potentially
> redefining a successful exit as something other than 1?
>
> mind if i ask which platform?
>
> but you're right of course -- what is "canonically bug-free" for a
> null program depends on your definition of the canon.
>
> jeff
>
> On Jan 23, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 10:32:58AM -0600, Jeff Almeida wrote:
> >> <minimalist-hat>
> >>
> >> correctness.
> >>
> >> at it's root (ok bad pun), all code is a collection of patches to /
> >> bin/true.... that is:
> >>
> >> int main() {
> >> 	return 1;
> >> }
> >>

fred at twister:~> /bin/true
fred at twister:~> echo $?
0
fred at twister:~> /bin/false
fred at twister:~> echo $?
1
fred at twister:~>

> >> which is in a sense, the algebraic kernel of the software vector-
> >> space.  it's also conveniently correct and canonically bug-free.
> >
> > I've worked on a platform where the above is buggy.  Canonically
> > bug-free
> > would be more like:
> >
> > #include <stdlib.h>
> > #ifndef EXIT_SUCCESS
> > #define EXIT_SUCCESS 1
> > #endif
> >
> > int main(int argc, char *argv[], char *envp[]) {
> >    return EXIT_SUCCESS;
> > }

From spud at spudzeppelin.com  Mon Jan 23 12:30:14 2006
From: spud at spudzeppelin.com (Jeff Almeida)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:30:14 -0600
Subject: SPUG: OT: Re:  PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0601231121150.28252@flame.m3047.inwa.net>
References: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>
	<479E95FF-9CA6-4303-8254-FD457AB24406@spudzeppelin.com>
	<20060123175959.GD2188@efn.org>
	<D762E087-FEB0-4EA6-AC02-93433ADB5916@spudzeppelin.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.53.0601231121150.28252@flame.m3047.inwa.net>
Message-ID: <93A56BE0-2450-4AEF-834E-036986F55C20@spudzeppelin.com>

*d'oh!*  now you know why i don't code all that much in c  
*embarrassed grin*

leave it to me to confuse shell-true with actual-true on a monday  
morning...

jeff

On Jan 23, 2006, at 1:27 PM, Fred Morris wrote:

> I am so danged confused now. Completely blew off the fact that it  
> wasn't
> Perl, and also that the exit code was 1. Now, if I recall  
> correctly, 0 is
> success on .*[rn].*[sx]. Odd (e.g. 1) is success on VMS.
>
> Ob Perl: reblessing works very well, thanks.
>
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Jeff Almeida wrote:
>
>> wow!  forcing you to accept command-line arguments and potentially
>> redefining a successful exit as something other than 1?
>>
>> mind if i ask which platform?
>>
>> but you're right of course -- what is "canonically bug-free" for a
>> null program depends on your definition of the canon.
>>
>> jeff
>>
>> On Jan 23, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 10:32:58AM -0600, Jeff Almeida wrote:
>>>> <minimalist-hat>
>>>>
>>>> correctness.
>>>>
>>>> at it's root (ok bad pun), all code is a collection of patches to /
>>>> bin/true.... that is:
>>>>
>>>> int main() {
>>>> 	return 1;
>>>> }
>>>>
>
> fred at twister:~> /bin/true
> fred at twister:~> echo $?
> 0
> fred at twister:~> /bin/false
> fred at twister:~> echo $?
> 1
> fred at twister:~>
>
>>>> which is in a sense, the algebraic kernel of the software vector-
>>>> space.  it's also conveniently correct and canonically bug-free.
>>>
>>> I've worked on a platform where the above is buggy.  Canonically
>>> bug-free
>>> would be more like:
>>>
>>> #include <stdlib.h>
>>> #ifndef EXIT_SUCCESS
>>> #define EXIT_SUCCESS 1
>>> #endif
>>>
>>> int main(int argc, char *argv[], char *envp[]) {
>>>    return EXIT_SUCCESS;
>>> }
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

****************************************
Jeff D. Almeida * Corinth, TX
spud at spudzeppelin.com
****************************************





From sthoenna at efn.org  Mon Jan 23 13:29:17 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:29:17 -0800
Subject: SPUG: OT: Re:  PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <93A56BE0-2450-4AEF-834E-036986F55C20@spudzeppelin.com>
References: <v02130500bff97b84d46e@[10.0.0.251]>
	<479E95FF-9CA6-4303-8254-FD457AB24406@spudzeppelin.com>
	<20060123175959.GD2188@efn.org>
	<D762E087-FEB0-4EA6-AC02-93433ADB5916@spudzeppelin.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.53.0601231121150.28252@flame.m3047.inwa.net>
	<93A56BE0-2450-4AEF-834E-036986F55C20@spudzeppelin.com>
Message-ID: <20060123212917.GF2188@efn.org>

On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 02:30:14PM -0600, Jeff Almeida wrote:
> *d'oh!*  now you know why i don't code all that much in c  
> *embarrassed grin*
> 
> leave it to me to confuse shell-true with actual-true on a monday  
> morning...
> 
> jeff

Gah.  I didn't notice either, just translated bin/true to EXIT_SUCCESS.

That's a good reason to use EXIT_SUCCESS/EXIT_FAILURE :)

I changed the signature of main() because I remember there being
at least one compiler that would give an error if the usual parameters
weren't specified.  Don't remember what compiler/platform that was,
or if envp was needed or not, now.

WRT exit values, I think it was the CCS/C compiler on MPE/V (and maybe
MPE/XL aka MPEiX) that supported MPE's concept of some return values
indicating a warning rather than an error, so that EXIT_FAILURE needed
to be high enough to indicate an actual failure.  I think the HP C
compiler has always translated any non-zero into a failure, though.

From andrew at seattleperl.org  Mon Jan 23 13:59:12 2006
From: andrew at seattleperl.org (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:59:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: O'Reilly Gives Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601231358190.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

O'Reilly's Safari Books Online has just announced a new service called
Rough Cuts that gives you early access to content on cutting-edge
technologies months before it's published. Rough Cuts allows you to
purchase work-in-progress manuscripts of selected titles. You'll even have
the chance to shape the final product by sending feedback to the author
and editors. The beta version just debuted with four works-in-progress
covering Ajax, Ruby, and Flickr.

For more information, go to:

  http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/

Titles now available:

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http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ajaxhks/

Flickr Hacks: Rough Cuts Version
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/flickrhks/

Ruby Cookbook: Rough Cuts Version
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rubyckbk/

Ruby on Rails: Up and Running: Rough Cuts Version
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rubyrails/

Rough Cuts FAQ
http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/faq.csp


From creede at penguinsinthenight.com  Mon Jan 23 17:23:01 2006
From: creede at penguinsinthenight.com (Creede Lambard)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:23:01 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <e3c3926f0601231058x27f2820cx63eea04b32c55053@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200601210706.k0L768q6025389@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>
	<20060122070458.GB17641@boris.penguinsinthenight.com>
	<e3c3926f0601231058x27f2820cx63eea04b32c55053@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060124012301.GI17641@boris.penguinsinthenight.com>

On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 10:58:01AM -0800, JD Brennan wrote:
> On 1/21/06, Creede Lambard <creede at penguinsinthenight.com> wrote:
> >
> > Come up with a good way to reverse a string. I get asked that about two
> > out
> > of three interviews, it seems like. Oh, and no one seems to like
> >
> >   print join ('', reverse( split (//, $string)));
> >
> > which seems unfair to me. I mean, if they're going to expect me to use
> > Perl,
> > I should be able to use Perl, not use Perl in a particular way they
> > mandate
> 
> 
> The goal of the interview coding question is to try
> to gain insight into how you think and how you tackle
> problems.   So asking for more than one solution can
> enable the interviewer to gain more insight.
> 

That's a valid point, but somehow it invariably gets expressed as "No, I
don't want you to do it that way" as opposed to "Can you do it another way
as well?"


-- 
===================================================================
                               * .~. (   : Creede Lambard         :
 Never rush a miracle man.    . / V \  . :------------------------:
 You get lousy miracles.       /(   )\   : creede at              :
--------------------------------^^-^^----:     penguinsinthenight :  
 Linux. Reliable and free. Pick any two. :         dot com        :
===================================================================

From creede at penguinsinthenight.com  Mon Jan 23 17:33:00 2006
From: creede at penguinsinthenight.com (Creede Lambard)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:33:00 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <43D332A1.6040402@perltraining.com.au>
References: <200601210706.k0L768q6025389@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>
	<20060122070458.GB17641@boris.penguinsinthenight.com>
	<43D332A1.6040402@perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <20060124013259.GJ17641@boris.penguinsinthenight.com>

On Sun, Jan 22, 2006 at 06:22:09PM +1100, Jacinta Richardson wrote:
> 
> Creede Lambard wrote:
> > Come up with a good way to reverse a string. I get asked that about two out
> > of three interviews, it seems like. Oh, and no one seems to like 
> > 
> >   print join ('', reverse( split (//, $string)));
> 
> What's wrong with:
> 
> 	print scalar reverse $string;
> 

Not a thing if it works as advertised :)

> ?  It's much less complicated.  

Sez you. :) I have trouble remembering contexts sometimes, but I have no
trouble remembering the join-reverse-split construction. It may also come
under the heading of expanding your code to improve readability.

I think part of the problem is that I am often interviewed by C coders who
are used to thinking in terms of reversing an array of chars with a loop
rather than with a single command. These same people are often surprised
that "unless" works as a keyword when I drop it into a piece of code as an
equivalent for "if not".


-- 
===================================================================
                               * .~. (   : Creede Lambard         :
 Never rush a miracle man.    . / V \  . :------------------------:
 You get lousy miracles.       /(   )\   : creede at              :
--------------------------------^^-^^----:     penguinsinthenight :  
 Linux. Reliable and free. Pick any two. :         dot com        :
===================================================================

From m3047 at inwa.net  Mon Jan 23 18:28:53 2006
From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:28:53 -0800
Subject: SPUG: can't leave well enough alone Re:  PERL technical interview
Message-ID: <v02130504bffb404e3a25@[10.0.0.251]>

Take two, the function is named EXIT_SUCCESS.. OK, you can shoot me now.
This code scares me; I worry about what might be assuming something
entirely reasonable about EXIT_SUCCESS being defined as a macro... But it
runs on the linux box sitting here on the desk. I'm done, I promise!

#!/usr/bin/perl -w

use Inline C;

use strict;

print 'EXIT_SUCCESS is ';

if (defined( my $code = &EXIT_SUCCESS)) {
    print "defined as $code\n";
    exit($code);
}
else {
    print "undefined\n";
}

__END__

__C__

#include <stdlib.h>

#ifdef EXIT_SUCCESS
static int saved_code_defined = 1;
static int saved_code = EXIT_SUCCESS;
#undef EXIT_SUCCESS
#else
static int saved_code_defined = 0;
static int saved_code = 0;
#endif

void EXIT_SUCCESS() {

    Inline_Stack_Vars;
    Inline_Stack_Reset;

    if (saved_code_defined) {
        Inline_Stack_Push(sv_2mortal(newSViv(saved_code)));
    }
    else {
        Inline_Stack_Push(sv_2mortal(newSV(0)));
    }

    Inline_Stack_Done;
}

--

Fred Morris



From m3047 at inwa.net  Mon Jan 23 16:21:52 2006
From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:21:52 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
Message-ID: <v02130501bffb223b28d8@[10.0.0.251]>

Don't ask me to do this in an interview, but I couldn't resist.

#!/usr/bin/perl -w

use Inline C;

use strict;

print 'EXIT_SUCCESS is ';

if (defined( my $code = &SHELL_SUCCESS)) {
    print "defined as $code\n";
    exit($code);
}
else {
    print "undefined\n";
}

__END__

__C__

#include <stdlib.h>

void SHELL_SUCCESS() {

    Inline_Stack_Vars;
    Inline_Stack_Reset;

#ifdef EXIT_SUCCESS
    Inline_Stack_Push(sv_2mortal(newSViv(EXIT_SUCCESS)));
#else
    Inline_Stack_Push(sv_2mortal(newSV(0)));
#endif

    Inline_Stack_Done;
}

--

Fred Morris

--

At 9:59 AM 1/23/06, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
>[...]
>I've worked on a platform where the above is buggy.  Canonically bug-free
>would be more like:
>
>#include <stdlib.h>
>#ifndef EXIT_SUCCESS
>#define EXIT_SUCCESS 1
>#endif
>
>int main(int argc, char *argv[], char *envp[]) {
>   return EXIT_SUCCESS;
>}



From schieb at centurytel.net  Tue Jan 24 10:54:26 2006
From: schieb at centurytel.net (Brian Schieber)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:54:26 -0800
Subject: SPUG: How it went
In-Reply-To: <200601241724.k0OHOnJO073546@mx3.centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <200601241854.k0OIsQra028418@msa1-gh.centurytel.net>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael R. Wolf [mailto:MichaelRWolf at att.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 9:25 AM
> To: 'Brian Schieber'
> Subject: How it went
> 
> Could you post a response to SPUG telling folks how it went?  It generated
> one of the longest threads in a while.
> 
> --
> Michael R. Wolf
>     All mammals learn by playing!
>         MichaelRWolf at att.net
> 

Sure. The interview went well but no one ever gave me a test. Maybe that
will come later. Still, it was good to review Perl before going in. I've
missed working in it.


Thanks for all the help from all those who responded.
-Brian



From sthoenna at efn.org  Tue Jan 24 12:09:23 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:09:23 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <v02130501bffb223b28d8@[10.0.0.251]>
References: <v02130501bffb223b28d8@[10.0.0.251]>
Message-ID: <20060124200923.GA3620@efn.org>

On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 04:21:52PM -0800, Fred Morris wrote:
> Don't ask me to do this in an interview, but I couldn't resist.
> 
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> 
> use Inline C;
 ... 
> #include <stdlib.h>
> 
> void SHELL_SUCCESS() {
> 
>     Inline_Stack_Vars;
>     Inline_Stack_Reset;
> 
> #ifdef EXIT_SUCCESS
>     Inline_Stack_Push(sv_2mortal(newSViv(EXIT_SUCCESS)));
> #else
>     Inline_Stack_Push(sv_2mortal(newSV(0)));
> #endif

Just FYI,

$ perl -wl
use POSIX "/EXIT_*/";
print "EXIT_SUCCESS is @{[EXIT_SUCCESS]}, EXIT_FAILURE is @{[EXIT_FAILURE]}";
__END__
EXIT_SUCCESS is 0, EXIT_FAILURE is 1

From atom.powers at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 10:28:55 2006
From: atom.powers at gmail.com (Atom Powers)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:28:55 -0800
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
Message-ID: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>

I want to do this: `/usr/bin/perl -V:version | /usr/bin/cut -d "'" -f
2` without using pipes or quotes; is that possible? (for some reason
my application isn't executing this correctly)

That is; I am looking for a simple way to get just the version number
wihout any padding. Something like "5.8.7" or "5.0.6" or whatever.

--
--
Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard.
--Atom Powers--

From cmeyer at helvella.org  Wed Jan 25 10:34:21 2006
From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:34:21 -0800
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060125183421.GU13359@funpox.helvella.org>

On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 10:28:55AM -0800, Atom Powers wrote:
> I want to do this: `/usr/bin/perl -V:version | /usr/bin/cut -d "'" -f
> 2` without using pipes or quotes; is that possible? (for some reason
> my application isn't executing this correctly)
> 
> That is; I am looking for a simple way to get just the version number
> wihout any padding. Something like "5.8.7" or "5.0.6" or whatever.

>From the perlvar manpage:

  perl -e'printf "version is v%vd\n", $^V'

-Colin.

From jerry.gay at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 10:35:00 2006
From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:35:00 -0800
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d9a3f400601251035n44677a34re9cdb76527cc3e1c@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/25/06, Atom Powers <atom.powers at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I want to do this: `/usr/bin/perl -V:version | /usr/bin/cut -d "'" -f
> 2` without using pipes or quotes; is that possible? (for some reason
> my application isn't executing this correctly)
>
> That is; I am looking for a simple way to get just the version number
> wihout any padding. Something like "5.8.7" or "5.0.6" or whatever.



maybe this will help:
  perl -MConfig -e"print $Config{version}"

~jerry
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From cmeyer at helvella.org  Wed Jan 25 10:37:27 2006
From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:37:27 -0800
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <1d9a3f400601251035n44677a34re9cdb76527cc3e1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d9a3f400601251035n44677a34re9cdb76527cc3e1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060125183727.GV13359@funpox.helvella.org>

On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 10:35:00AM -0800, jerry gay wrote:
> On 1/25/06, Atom Powers <atom.powers at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I want to do this: `/usr/bin/perl -V:version | /usr/bin/cut -d "'" -f
> > 2` without using pipes or quotes; is that possible? (for some reason
> > my application isn't executing this correctly)
> >
> > That is; I am looking for a simple way to get just the version number
> > wihout any padding. Something like "5.8.7" or "5.0.6" or whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> maybe this will help:
>   perl -MConfig -e"print $Config{version}"

Most shells interpolate $variables within double quotes, so this
may work better for you:

  perl -MConfig -le'print $Config{version}'

-Colin.

From atom.powers at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 10:45:28 2006
From: atom.powers at gmail.com (Atom Powers)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:45:28 -0800
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <20060125183727.GV13359@funpox.helvella.org>
References: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d9a3f400601251035n44677a34re9cdb76527cc3e1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060125183727.GV13359@funpox.helvella.org>
Message-ID: <df9ac37c0601251045h39a02217i2c130d6508528a44@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, that does whan I want.
But still doesn't work from within my application.

On 1/25/06, Colin Meyer <cmeyer at helvella.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 10:35:00AM -0800, jerry gay wrote:
> > On 1/25/06, Atom Powers <atom.powers at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I want to do this: `/usr/bin/perl -V:version | /usr/bin/cut -d "'" -f
> > > 2` without using pipes or quotes; is that possible? (for some reason
> > > my application isn't executing this correctly)
> > >
> > > That is; I am looking for a simple way to get just the version number
> > > wihout any padding. Something like "5.8.7" or "5.0.6" or whatever.
> >
> >
> >
> > maybe this will help:
> >   perl -MConfig -e"print $Config{version}"
>
> Most shells interpolate $variables within double quotes, so this
> may work better for you:
>
>   perl -MConfig -le'print $Config{version}'
>
> -Colin.
>


--
--
Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard.
--Atom Powers--

From bill at celestial.com  Wed Jan 25 10:48:30 2006
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:48:30 -0800
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060125184830.GC75654@alexis.mi.celestial.com>

On Wed, Jan 25, 2006, Atom Powers wrote:
>I want to do this: `/usr/bin/perl -V:version | /usr/bin/cut -d "'" -f
>2` without using pipes or quotes; is that possible? (for some reason
>my application isn't executing this correctly)
>
>That is; I am looking for a simple way to get just the version number
>wihout any padding. Something like "5.8.7" or "5.0.6" or whatever.

If you're doing this from the shell, this should set a shell
variable, version:

eval `perl -V:version`

Bill
--
INTERNET:   bill at Celestial.COM  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
FAX:            (206) 232-9186  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676

``Unix is simple. It just takes a genius to understand its simplicity'' --
    Dennis Ritchie

From cmeyer at helvella.org  Wed Jan 25 10:53:39 2006
From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:53:39 -0800
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <df9ac37c0601251045h39a02217i2c130d6508528a44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d9a3f400601251035n44677a34re9cdb76527cc3e1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060125183727.GV13359@funpox.helvella.org>
	<df9ac37c0601251045h39a02217i2c130d6508528a44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060125185339.GW13359@funpox.helvella.org>

On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 10:45:28AM -0800, Atom Powers wrote:
> Thank you, that does whan I want.
> But still doesn't work from within my application.

Why not? I just inserted that code, and the $^V style (with sprintf
instead of printf) into an application, and they both worked fine.

  # assuming that your application is also a Perl program
  #
  my $version = sprintf "%vd", $^V;
  some_routine_that_wants_the_version( $version );

-Colin.

From atom.powers at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 11:01:56 2006
From: atom.powers at gmail.com (Atom Powers)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:01:56 -0800
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <20060125185539.GA2556@efn.org>
References: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d9a3f400601251035n44677a34re9cdb76527cc3e1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060125183727.GV13359@funpox.helvella.org>
	<df9ac37c0601251045h39a02217i2c130d6508528a44@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060125185539.GA2556@efn.org>
Message-ID: <df9ac37c0601251101j374c7b02gd08ed564a0955fcf@mail.gmail.com>

I have tried all of these:
PerlVer = ( ExecResult(/usr/bin/perl -V:version | /usr/bin/cut -d "'" -f 2) )
PerlVer = ( ExecResult(/usr/bin/perl -e'printf "%vd\n", $^V') )
PerlVer = ( ExecResult(/usr/bin/perl -MConfig -le'print $Config{version}') )

The first one returs "version='5.8.7';"
The rest ruturn "Can't find string terminator "'" anywhere before EOF
at -e line 1."

This leads me to believe that the ExecResult function doesn't quotes.

On 1/25/06, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes <sthoenna at efn.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 10:45:28AM -0800, Atom Powers wrote:
> > Thank you, that does whan I want.
> > But still doesn't work from within my application.
>
> Can you show how you are trying to invoke perl in your application?
> What does "doesn't work" mean?  Bad output?  No output?  Error messages?
> Does it actually find perl on the path?
>


--
--
Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard.
--Atom Powers--

From atom.powers at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 11:08:14 2006
From: atom.powers at gmail.com (Atom Powers)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:08:14 -0800
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <20060125185819.GB2556@efn.org>
References: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060125185819.GB2556@efn.org>
Message-ID: <df9ac37c0601251108x1d06778fi2a7d8043a64f374f@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/25/06, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes <sthoenna at efn.org> wrote:
> Here's a quoteless way:
>
> perl -eprint+eval~~join+undef,map+chr,36,93
>

Oooh, that looks promising...
Nope:
"cf:cfengine::./test.cf:9: Function or format of input file requires 1
argument items"

<maniacle laughter>
I think I'm going to have to write a wrapper.

--
--
Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard.
--Atom Powers--

From atom.powers at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 11:19:51 2006
From: atom.powers at gmail.com (Atom Powers)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:19:51 -0800
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <20060125191553.GD2556@efn.org>
References: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060125185819.GB2556@efn.org>
	<df9ac37c0601251108x1d06778fi2a7d8043a64f374f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060125191553.GD2556@efn.org>
Message-ID: <df9ac37c0601251119n44e5a47brc291d2525f6a9212@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/25/06, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes <sthoenna at efn.org> wrote:
> No commas allowed, huh?  That makes it tough.  Does it pass through
> $?  If so, just: perl -eprint -e$]
>

Yes!
cfengine:: PERL_VER=5.008007


--
--
Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard.
--Atom Powers--

From umar at drizzle.com  Wed Jan 25 11:19:20 2006
From: umar at drizzle.com (Umar Cheema)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:19:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <df9ac37c0601251108x1d06778fi2a7d8043a64f374f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0601251114340.27509-100000@cascadia.drizzle.com>

If your application is Perl based, do you really have to use a shell 
command? Can't you simply use the Config module from within Perl?

use Config;
my $version = $Config{version};



On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Atom Powers wrote:

On 1/25/06, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes <sthoenna at efn.org> wrote:
> Here's a quoteless way:
>
> perl -eprint+eval~~join+undef,map+chr,36,93
>

Oooh, that looks promising...
Nope:
"cf:cfengine::./test.cf:9: Function or format of input file requires 1
argument items"

<maniacle laughter>
I think I'm going to have to write a wrapper.

--
--
Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard.
--Atom Powers--
_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
     POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/








From umar at drizzle.com  Wed Jan 25 11:26:23 2006
From: umar at drizzle.com (Umar Cheema)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:26:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0601251114340.27509-100000@cascadia.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0601251124160.27509-100000@cascadia.drizzle.com>

Nevermind. I just read the other emails.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Umar Cheema wrote:

If your application is Perl based, do you really have to use a shell 
command? Can't you simply use the Config module from within Perl?

use Config;
my $version = $Config{version};



On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Atom Powers wrote:

On 1/25/06, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes <sthoenna at efn.org> wrote:
> Here's a quoteless way:
>
> perl -eprint+eval~~join+undef,map+chr,36,93
>

Oooh, that looks promising...
Nope:
"cf:cfengine::./test.cf:9: Function or format of input file requires 1
argument items"

<maniacle laughter>
I think I'm going to have to write a wrapper.

--
--
Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard.
--Atom Powers--
_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
     POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/













From andrew at sweger.net  Wed Jan 25 11:46:16 2006
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:46:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0601251144570.11323-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Atom Powers wrote:

> I want to do this: `/usr/bin/perl -V:version | /usr/bin/cut -d "'" -f
> 2` without using pipes or quotes; is that possible? (for some reason
> my application isn't executing this correctly)
> 
> That is; I am looking for a simple way to get just the version number
> wihout any padding. Something like "5.8.7" or "5.0.6" or whatever.

I think it would have been helpful to mention from the start that the
application in question was cfengine.

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From chuck.orr at cingular.com  Wed Jan 25 12:50:17 2006
From: chuck.orr at cingular.com (Orr, Chuck  (NOC))
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:50:17 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Symbolic references ???
Message-ID: <E0ED7672133D394E8A6FB266D4EF395A017238AF@WA-MSG09-BTH.wireless.attws.com>

 


 
Hello,
 
I have a group of 5 arrays, named as follows:
 
my @ofcrte;
my @pxrte;
my @acrte;
my @farte;
my @ftrte;
 
I would like to push something on to one of them per iteration of a
loop, the pushee determined by a variable named $lc_table.
 
If I read pgs 16 & 17 of the leopard (advanced perl programming)
correctly, I should be able to use a symbolic reference to push to the
appropriate array depending on the contents of the $lc_table variable.
I have turned strict refs off within the loop.
 
here is my push line:
 
push @$lc_table, "rep bla bla bla bla bla";
 
when I then print the above listed arrays, they have nothing in them.
However, if I print "@$lc_table"; within the loop, there are elements in
the array.  Any suggestions?

If anyone can help me and has time to look at a little more code, I
would be glad to send it.

Thanks for your help,
Chuck Orr
chuck.orr at cingular.com
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From cmeyer at helvella.org  Wed Jan 25 13:00:42 2006
From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:00:42 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Symbolic references ???
In-Reply-To: <E0ED7672133D394E8A6FB266D4EF395A017238AF@WA-MSG09-BTH.wireless.attws.com>
References: <E0ED7672133D394E8A6FB266D4EF395A017238AF@WA-MSG09-BTH.wireless.attws.com>
Message-ID: <20060125210042.GX13359@funpox.helvella.org>

Hi Chuck,

On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 12:50:17PM -0800, Orr, Chuck  (NOC) wrote:
>  
> Hello,
>  
> I have a group of 5 arrays, named as follows:
>  
> my @ofcrte;
> my @pxrte;
> my @acrte;
> my @farte;
> my @ftrte;

Great variable names! ;-)

>  
> I would like to push something on to one of them per iteration of a
> loop, the pushee determined by a variable named $lc_table.
>  
> If I read pgs 16 & 17 of the leopard (advanced perl programming)
> correctly, I should be able to use a symbolic reference to push to the
> appropriate array depending on the contents of the $lc_table variable.
> I have turned strict refs off within the loop.
>  
> here is my push line:
>  
> push @$lc_table, "rep bla bla bla bla bla";
>  
> when I then print the above listed arrays, they have nothing in them.
> However, if I print "@$lc_table"; within the loop, there are elements in
> the array.  Any suggestions?

A typical approach to your problem would be to use one hash, with
keys of the same names as your old arrays, and values of arrayrefs.

  my %table; # this hash will hold the arrays

  for my $value_to_push ( function_that_generates_values() ) {
    push @{ $table{ $lc_table } }, $value_to_push;
  }

  # later, read out some values

  print "the last value of ofcrte is: $table{ ofcrte }[ -1 ] \n";

-Colin.

From tallpeak at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 25 13:24:08 2006
From: tallpeak at hotmail.com (Aaron West)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:24:08 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Weirdness in map
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0601251114340.27509-100000@cascadia.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV145351FA31EF76680AF2C4C5120@phx.gbl>

After the last post, I was wondering if I had any .cf files in my coldfusion
directory....and wrote this one-liner. Any idea why these have different
output?

In the first, the reverse inside the map apparently doesn't work. It's as if
sprintf is looking at the original value of $_ before it was reversed,
somehow. So I appended "" to the value returned by reverse, in the second
version, and it worked!???

========================================
Version 1:

[user at machinename] /cygdrive/c/CFusionMX
$ find . -name "*.cf*" | \
	perl -nle '($_) = split("\\.", reverse($_), 2); 
	$extr{$_}++;
	END{print map {sprintf("%s\t%d\n", reverse($_), $extr{$_}) } 
	sort keys %extr}'
cfc     19
dlo     1
dltfc   1
gfc     1
mfc     959
~1~     1

========================================
Version 2:

[user at machinename] /cygdrive/c/CFusionMX
find . -name "*.cf*" | \
	perl -nle '($_) = split("\\.", reverse($_), 2); 
	$extr{$_}++;
	END{print map {sprintf("%s\t%d\n", reverse($_) . "", $extr{$_}) } 
	sort keys %extr}'
cfc     19
old     1
cftld   1
cfg     1
cfm     959
~1~     1

========================================

$ perl -v

This is perl, v5.8.7 built for cygwin-thread-multi-64int
(with 1 registered patch, see perl -V for more detail)
..

From tallpeak at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 25 13:28:56 2006
From: tallpeak at hotmail.com (Aaron West)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:28:56 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Weirdness in map
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-DAV145351FA31EF76680AF2C4C5120@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV1563824259B8C7595B8249C5120@phx.gbl>

PS.

Simplified example.

$ perl -le '@a="abc";print map {reverse $_} @a'
abc

$ perl -le '@a="abc";print map {(reverse $_).""} @a'
cba


-----Original Message-----
From: spug-list-bounces+tallpeak=hotmail.com at pm.org
[mailto:spug-list-bounces+tallpeak=hotmail.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Aaron
West
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:24 PM
To: 'SPUG Members'
Subject: SPUG: Weirdness in map

After the last post, I was wondering if I had any .cf files in my coldfusion
directory....and wrote this one-liner. Any idea why these have different
output?

In the first, the reverse inside the map apparently doesn't work. It's as if
sprintf is looking at the original value of $_ before it was reversed,
somehow. So I appended "" to the value returned by reverse, in the second
version, and it worked!???

========================================
Version 1:

[user at machinename] /cygdrive/c/CFusionMX
$ find . -name "*.cf*" | \
	perl -nle '($_) = split("\\.", reverse($_), 2); 
	$extr{$_}++;
	END{print map {sprintf("%s\t%d\n", reverse($_), $extr{$_}) } 
	sort keys %extr}'
cfc     19
dlo     1
dltfc   1
gfc     1
mfc     959
~1~     1

========================================
Version 2:

[user at machinename] /cygdrive/c/CFusionMX
find . -name "*.cf*" | \
	perl -nle '($_) = split("\\.", reverse($_), 2); 
	$extr{$_}++;
	END{print map {sprintf("%s\t%d\n", reverse($_) . "", $extr{$_}) } 
	sort keys %extr}'
cfc     19
old     1
cftld   1
cfg     1
cfm     959
~1~     1

========================================

$ perl -v

This is perl, v5.8.7 built for cygwin-thread-multi-64int
(with 1 registered patch, see perl -V for more detail)
.
_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
     POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

From tallpeak at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 25 13:35:13 2006
From: tallpeak at hotmail.com (Aaron West)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:35:13 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Weirdness in map
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-DAV1563824259B8C7595B8249C5120@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV5A49F549CDC5E1EC7F7E9C5120@phx.gbl>

Nevermind.

The context within print is list context, and reverse in list context
reverses a list.

$ perl -Wle 'print reverse("asdf")'
asdf 

$ perl -Wle 'print scalar reverse("asdf")'
fdsa


-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron West [mailto:tallpeak at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:29 PM
To: 'SPUG Members'
Subject: RE: SPUG: Weirdness in map

PS.

Simplified example.

$ perl -le '@a="abc";print map {reverse $_} @a'
abc

$ perl -le '@a="abc";print map {(reverse $_).""} @a'
cba


-----Original Message-----
From: spug-list-bounces+tallpeak=hotmail.com at pm.org
[mailto:spug-list-bounces+tallpeak=hotmail.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Aaron
West
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:24 PM
To: 'SPUG Members'
Subject: SPUG: Weirdness in map

After the last post, I was wondering if I had any .cf files in my coldfusion
directory....and wrote this one-liner. Any idea why these have different
output?

In the first, the reverse inside the map apparently doesn't work. It's as if
sprintf is looking at the original value of $_ before it was reversed,
somehow. So I appended "" to the value returned by reverse, in the second
version, and it worked!???

========================================
Version 1:

[user at machinename] /cygdrive/c/CFusionMX
$ find . -name "*.cf*" | \
	perl -nle '($_) = split("\\.", reverse($_), 2); 
	$extr{$_}++;
	END{print map {sprintf("%s\t%d\n", reverse($_), $extr{$_}) } 
	sort keys %extr}'
cfc     19
dlo     1
dltfc   1
gfc     1
mfc     959
~1~     1

========================================
Version 2:

[user at machinename] /cygdrive/c/CFusionMX
find . -name "*.cf*" | \
	perl -nle '($_) = split("\\.", reverse($_), 2); 
	$extr{$_}++;
	END{print map {sprintf("%s\t%d\n", reverse($_) . "", $extr{$_}) } 
	sort keys %extr}'
cfc     19
old     1
cftld   1
cfg     1
cfm     959
~1~     1

========================================

$ perl -v

This is perl, v5.8.7 built for cygwin-thread-multi-64int
(with 1 registered patch, see perl -V for more detail)
..
_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
     POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/


From torin.darren at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 13:52:46 2006
From: torin.darren at gmail.com (Darren Stalder)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:52:46 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Weirdness in map
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-DAV145351FA31EF76680AF2C4C5120@phx.gbl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0601251114340.27509-100000@cascadia.drizzle.com>
	<BAY101-DAV145351FA31EF76680AF2C4C5120@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <91dff6490601251352s781cdca8x8c6400ce2fb2af73@mail.gmail.com>

In the first case, the reverse is in list context and reverses the
list of ($_).  The reverse of a list with one element is that same
list.  Once you append "" to reverse($_), you're putting it into
scalar context where reverse does what you're expecting.

Darren

On 1/25/06, Aaron West <tallpeak at hotmail.com> wrote:
> After the last post, I was wondering if I had any .cf files in my coldfusion
> directory....and wrote this one-liner. Any idea why these have different
> output?
>
> In the first, the reverse inside the map apparently doesn't work. It's as if
> sprintf is looking at the original value of $_ before it was reversed,
> somehow. So I appended "" to the value returned by reverse, in the second
> version, and it worked!???
>
> ========================================
> Version 1:
>
> [user at machinename] /cygdrive/c/CFusionMX
> $ find . -name "*.cf*" | \
>         perl -nle '($_) = split("\\.", reverse($_), 2);
>         $extr{$_}++;
>         END{print map {sprintf("%s\t%d\n", reverse($_), $extr{$_}) }
>         sort keys %extr}'
> cfc     19
> dlo     1
> dltfc   1
> gfc     1
> mfc     959
> ~1~     1
>
> ========================================
> Version 2:
>
> [user at machinename] /cygdrive/c/CFusionMX
> find . -name "*.cf*" | \
>         perl -nle '($_) = split("\\.", reverse($_), 2);
>         $extr{$_}++;
>         END{print map {sprintf("%s\t%d\n", reverse($_) . "", $extr{$_}) }
>         sort keys %extr}'
> cfc     19
> old     1
> cftld   1
> cfg     1
> cfm     959
> ~1~     1
>
> ========================================
>
> $ perl -v
>
> This is perl, v5.8.7 built for cygwin-thread-multi-64int
> (with 1 registered patch, see perl -V for more detail)
> ..
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>

From sthoenna at efn.org  Wed Jan 25 14:03:20 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:03:20 -0800
Subject: SPUG: PERL technical interview
In-Reply-To: <20060124200923.GA3620@efn.org>
References: <v02130501bffb223b28d8@[10.0.0.251]>
	<20060124200923.GA3620@efn.org>
Message-ID: <20060125220320.GA3168@efn.org>

On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 12:09:23PM -0800, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
> $ perl -wl
> use POSIX "/EXIT_*/";
> print "EXIT_SUCCESS is @{[EXIT_SUCCESS]}, EXIT_FAILURE is @{[EXIT_FAILURE]}";
> __END__
> EXIT_SUCCESS is 0, EXIT_FAILURE is 1

I had a response from someone whom this syntax gave momentary pause,
so I thought I'd try to explain it.

@{[ expr ]} is an idiomatic way of embedding an arbitrary expression
in a double-quoted string.  It executes expr in list context (which
makes no difference for these constants) and interpolates the result
into the string.  (If there are multiple items in the result, they are
separated by $" aka $LIST_SEPARATOR, which defaults to a space.)

Taking it apart, first there's the @ which introduces an array
to be interpolated into the string.  This has three basic forms:
@identifier, @{identifier}, and @{arrayref}.  The second form
uses the {} just to delimit the identifier name, as when there
is a word character immediately following:

   @foo="foo"; $foobar="@{foo}bar";

The third form is just like @ followed by a BLOCK outside of
double quoted string; the code in the BLOCK is executed and
the result is treated as an array reference to dereference.

In this case, the code in the BLOCK is just an anonymous
array constructor: [ expr ].

Putting it all together, EXIT_SUCCESS calls the function of that
name, which returns 0.  [ ] creates an anonymous arrayref [ 0 ].
@{ } dereferences that and puts the contents ( 0 ) into the string.

When would you use this idiom?  Rarely.  Just saying e.g.

   print "EXIT_SUCCESS is ", EXIT_SUCCESS, ", EXIT_FAILURE is ", EXIT_FAILURE"

is just about as clear.  Even if you need the whole thing in one scalar, not
in a list, either of these is also just about as clear:

   join "", "EXIT_SUCCESS is ", EXIT_SUCCESS, ", EXIT_FAILURE is ", EXIT_FAILURE"

or

   sprintf "EXIT_SUCCESS is %d, EXIT_FAILURE is %d", EXIT_SUCCESS, EXIT_FAILURE

(Just replacing the ,'s with .'s works too, but I don't find that visually
distinctive enough; I try to avoid use of multiple .'s.)

I occasionally use it to interpolate a "constant", especially where a
join or sprintf would otherwise be needed, but avoid it other times.
But I sometimes like to put things into posts just in the hope that at
least one person is nudged to do some Fine Manual reading.

From pdarley at kinesis-cem.com  Wed Jan 25 14:09:39 2006
From: pdarley at kinesis-cem.com (Peter Darley)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:09:39 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Symbolic references ???
Message-ID: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPGEIDEAAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>

Message
Chuck,
    What you're doing here is setting $lc_table to be a refrence to an
anonymous array, rather than using the name in $lc_table to determine where
the data goes.
    You could use an eval:

eval("push \@$lc_table, \"rep bla bla bla bla bla\";");


    Note: Someone's going to bitch about the parens not doing anything, but
they make it easier for me to read, so there! :)

Thanks,
Peter Darley
  -----Original Message-----
  From: spug-list-bounces at pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces at pm.org]On Behalf
Of Orr, Chuck (NOC)
  Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:50 PM
  To: spug-list at pm.org
  Subject: SPUG: Symbolic references ???






  Hello,

  I have a group of 5 arrays, named as follows:

  my @ofcrte;
  my @pxrte;
  my @acrte;
  my @farte;
  my @ftrte;

  I would like to push something on to one of them per iteration of a loop,
the pushee determined by a variable named $lc_table.

  If I read pgs 16 & 17 of the leopard (advanced perl programming)
correctly, I should be able to use a symbolic reference to push to the
appropriate array depending on the contents of the $lc_table variable.  I
have turned strict refs off within the loop.

  here is my push line:

  push @$lc_table, "rep bla bla bla bla bla";

  when I then print the above listed arrays, they have nothing in them.
However, if I print "@$lc_table"; within the loop, there are elements in the
array.  Any suggestions?

  If anyone can help me and has time to look at a little more code, I would
be glad to send it.

  Thanks for your help,
  Chuck Orr
  chuck.orr at cingular.com
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From sthoenna at efn.org  Wed Jan 25 14:09:43 2006
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:09:43 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Symbolic references ???
In-Reply-To: <E0ED7672133D394E8A6FB266D4EF395A017238AF@WA-MSG09-BTH.wireless.attws.com>
References: <E0ED7672133D394E8A6FB266D4EF395A017238AF@WA-MSG09-BTH.wireless.attws.com>
Message-ID: <20060125220943.GB3168@efn.org>

On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 12:50:17PM -0800, Orr, Chuck  (NOC) wrote:
>  
> 
> 
>  
> Hello,
>  
> I have a group of 5 arrays, named as follows:
>  
> my @ofcrte;
> my @pxrte;
> my @acrte;
> my @farte;
> my @ftrte;
>  
> I would like to push something on to one of them per iteration of a
> loop, the pushee determined by a variable named $lc_table.
>  
> If I read pgs 16 & 17 of the leopard (advanced perl programming)
> correctly, I should be able to use a symbolic reference to push to the
> appropriate array depending on the contents of the $lc_table variable.
> I have turned strict refs off within the loop.
>  
> here is my push line:
>  
> push @$lc_table, "rep bla bla bla bla bla";
>  
> when I then print the above listed arrays, they have nothing in them.
> However, if I print "@$lc_table"; within the loop, there are elements in
> the array.  Any suggestions?

Symbolic references always find global variables, not lexicals.  So,
your push is changing the @::ftrte array, etc.  That's just one of the
reasons they are not such a hot idea.


my @ofcrte;
my @pxrte;
my @acrte;
my @farte;
my @ftrte;

my %foorte = (
  ofcrte => \@ofcrte,
  pxrte => \@pxrte,
   acrte => \@acrte,
  farte => \@farte,
  ftrte => \@ftrte
);

 ...

push @{$foorte{$lc_table}}, ...



Better yet, junk the individual arrays altogether and just use a hash
of arrays.

From krahnj at telus.net  Wed Jan 25 14:46:13 2006
From: krahnj at telus.net (John W. Krahn)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:46:13 -0800
Subject: SPUG: geting the perl version
In-Reply-To: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df9ac37c0601251028x581c1163n10d73070d575444c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43D7FFB5.2040705@telus.net>

Atom Powers wrote:
> I want to do this: `/usr/bin/perl -V:version | /usr/bin/cut -d "'" -f
> 2` without using pipes or quotes; is that possible? (for some reason
> my application isn't executing this correctly)
> 
> That is; I am looking for a simple way to get just the version number
> wihout any padding. Something like "5.8.7" or "5.0.6" or whatever.

$ perl -e'printf "%vd\n", $^V'
5.8.6


John
-- 
use Perl;
program
fulfillment

From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Wed Jan 25 21:53:28 2006
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:53:28 -0800
Subject: SPUG: WSA + MS -> "Best of PDC"
Message-ID: <mailman.33.1138254827.13039.spug-list@pm.org>

I've heard great things about this.  It's cheap.  It really is the best of
the best.  You don't have to travel to the multi-day event.

You know that I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Open Source bigot, but I've even been
tempted to go, learn, meet, report back.  It's a big world.  I hope folks
don't mind posting such a great value in this developer-centered list.

Jan. 30: "WSA & Microsoft Present Best of the 2005 PDC" 
Time: 7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. 
Place: Microsoft Conference Center, 16070 NE 36th Way, Building #33, Redmond

Cost: Please see event Web site for details. 
Description: Hear from a handful of architects creating the next generation
of Microsoft software as the WSA presents the "Best of the 2005 Microsoft
PDC (Professional Developers Conference)." 
Contact: (206) 448-3033 ext. 103 
Web site and registration: www.wsa.org/events/event.asp?EventID=607




-- 
Michael R. Wolf
    All mammals learn by playing!
        MichaelRWolf at att.net



From mike206 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 10:14:17 2006
From: mike206 at gmail.com (mike)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:14:17 -0800
Subject: SPUG: odd array ref issue
Message-ID: <b0b825730601261014i6e1bd4deqde5eac8a94eb5d98@mail.gmail.com>

I've totally been pulling my hair out over this and I'm probably missing
something stupid here but I figured the SPUG eyes would notice it
immediately



I have an array ref in $tmp, here is the Data::Dumpage

Thu Jan 26 10:00:40 2006 tmp: $VAR1 = [
          '102',
          '104'
        ];

then I put that into my $params hashref

    $params->{donor_pk} = $tmp;

then I Data::Dump the $params hashref

Thu Jan 26 10:00:40 2006 params: $VAR1 = {
          'all' => '1',
          'Submit' => '1',
          'view' => 'donors',
          'donor_pk' => 'ARRAY(0x60234)'
        };

notice the dumper does not traverse into that array, which it usually does
with other hashrefs and objects i've created.
the ref() function also does not return ARRAY anymore after I stick it into
that hash. furthermore, that hash goes into another hash which is obviously
not going to do much for me either.


this is something i do rather frequently but do not think i've seen this
issue before.
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From cmeyer at helvella.org  Thu Jan 26 10:20:55 2006
From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:20:55 -0800
Subject: SPUG: odd array ref issue
In-Reply-To: <b0b825730601261014i6e1bd4deqde5eac8a94eb5d98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b0b825730601261014i6e1bd4deqde5eac8a94eb5d98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060126182055.GH13359@funpox.helvella.org>

On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 10:14:17AM -0800, mike wrote:
> I've totally been pulling my hair out over this and I'm probably missing
> something stupid here but I figured the SPUG eyes would notice it
> immediately
> 
> 
> 
> I have an array ref in $tmp, here is the Data::Dumpage
> 
> Thu Jan 26 10:00:40 2006 tmp: $VAR1 = [
>           '102',
>           '104'
>         ];
> 
> then I put that into my $params hashref
> 
>     $params->{donor_pk} = $tmp;

Are you sure that the line in your code doesn't look something more
like:

   $params->{donor_pk} = "$tmp";

It seems that your array ref is being stringified somewhere. Perhaps
including a sample of your actual code will shed more light.

-Colin.

> 
> then I Data::Dump the $params hashref
> 
> Thu Jan 26 10:00:40 2006 params: $VAR1 = {
>           'all' => '1',
>           'Submit' => '1',
>           'view' => 'donors',
>           'donor_pk' => 'ARRAY(0x60234)'
>         };

From john.spug at subaykan.com  Thu Jan 26 10:49:15 2006
From: john.spug at subaykan.com (John Subaykan)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:49:15 -0500
Subject: SPUG: odd array ref issue
Message-ID: <E1F2CBH-0002po-AR@serve.wwwroot3.net>


Looks like cgi does return a hash that stringifies its values:
 

use strict;
use warnings;
 
use Data::Dumper;
 
use CGI;
 
my $q = new CGI; 
 
my $params = $q->Vars;
 
my $tmp = [ '102', '104' ];
 
$params->{all} = 1;
$params->{view} = "something";
 
$params->{donor_pk} = $tmp;
 
print Dumper $params;
 
 
 
You get:
 
 
 
$VAR1 = {
          'all' => '1',
          'view' => 'something',
          'donor_pk' => 'ARRAY(0x81a850c)'
        };

 
some relevant detail at: http://search.cpan.org/dist/CGI.pm/CGI.pm  scroll down to "Fetching the parameter list as a hash"
 
- John Subaykan
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: mike 
To: John Subaykan 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: odd array ref issue


Hm. Does data dumper indicate if a hash is tied to a class? 

anyway, I create a new hash and it is not stringified in the data dump. 
a
I created $params from Vars in cgi.pm (does vars return a tied hash?). i was trying to frob some more data into the POST before processing it.. 

I can do this another way but this ghetto style approach is usually worth a shot



On 1/26/06, John Subaykan wrote: 
Is your $params hashref tied to a class that stringifies values at assignment with its STORE method?  How are you creating $params?
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: mike 
To: members at seattleperl.org 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: SPUG: odd array ref issue


I've totally been pulling my hair out over this and I'm probably missing something stupid here but I figured the SPUG eyes would notice it immediately



I have an array ref in $tmp, here is the Data::Dumpage

Thu Jan 26 10:00:40 2006 tmp: $VAR1 = [
          '102',
          '104'
        ];

then I put that into my $params hashref

    $params->{donor_pk} = $tmp;

then I Data::Dump the $params hashref 

Thu Jan 26 10:00:40 2006 params: $VAR1 = {
          'all' => '1',
          'Submit' => '1',
          'view' => 'donors',
          'donor_pk' => 'ARRAY(0x60234)'
        };

notice the dumper does not traverse into that array, which it usually does with other hashrefs and objects i've created. 
the ref() function also does not return ARRAY anymore after I stick it into that hash. furthermore, that hash goes into another hash which is obviously not going to do much for me either. 


this is something i do rather frequently but do not think i've seen this issue before. 



From john.spug at subaykan.com  Thu Jan 26 11:00:26 2006
From: john.spug at subaykan.com (John Subaykan)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:00:26 -0500
Subject: SPUG: odd array ref issue
Message-ID: <E1F2CM6-0004WR-Qe@serve.wwwroot3.net>



So..

Before you assign the arrayref to the $params hashref, you can do:

untie %$params;

or this disgusting hack which I found interesting:

my %params2 = %$params;
$params = \%params2;

# copy the dereferenced hash, then assign it back to $params.

From boss at topfunky.com  Thu Jan 26 13:08:33 2006
From: boss at topfunky.com (Geoffrey Grosenbach)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:08:33 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Small Perl Job
In-Reply-To: <E1F2CM6-0004WR-Qe@serve.wwwroot3.net>
References: <E1F2CM6-0004WR-Qe@serve.wwwroot3.net>
Message-ID: <670CEC4C-C80B-4EFC-938B-30B9DCCA650B@topfunky.com>


I need to hand off a project to another developer. It's written in  
Perl with Text::Template and a simple MVC framework I wrote a few  
years ago (plus MySQL).

http://aptfinder.org

It's a non-profit that helps people find low-cost and subsidized  
housing. Site updates are minimal, but the client has a list of  
improvements that she would like to have done.

Previous to 4 months ago when I last had time to work on the project,  
I was charging $30/hour and doing about 10 hours a month on it ($300/ 
month). It would be perfect for someone who wants a small side job,  
or a college student who wants a job with a minimal time commitment.

If anyone is interested in taking this over, shoot me an email.


Thanks,

Geoffrey Grosenbach
boss at topfunky.com

......................................
Website Development | http://topfunky.com
Ruby on Rails Blog | http://nubyonrails.com
Ruby on Rails Workshops | http://rubyonrailsworkshops.com
Ruby on Rails Podcast | http://podcast.rubyonrails.org





From rick.croote at philips.com  Thu Jan 26 16:24:42 2006
From: rick.croote at philips.com (Rick Croote)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:24:42 -0800
Subject: SPUG: odd array ref issue
In-Reply-To: <20060126182055.GH13359@funpox.helvella.org>
Message-ID: <OFC6DA29E6.F38D638F-ON85257103.0001DD39-88257103.00026438@philips.com>

I'm used to seeing stringified Array message only when I have set the 
variable as such

$Data::Dumper::Maxdepth = 1;

I use the above often when data items are so large that they take forever 
or likely to just crash the program. 

---
Rick Croote
Software Engineer
Environment and Tools Team
Philips Medical Systems
Bothell, WA
Rick.Croote at Philips.com
Phone: 425-487-7834









Colin Meyer <cmeyer at helvella.org> 
Sent by:
spug-list-bounces at pm.org
2006-01-26 10:20 AM

To
mike <mike206 at gmail.com>
cc
members at seattleperl.org
Subject
Re: SPUG: odd array ref issue
Classification







On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 10:14:17AM -0800, mike wrote:
> I've totally been pulling my hair out over this and I'm probably missing
> something stupid here but I figured the SPUG eyes would notice it
> immediately
> 
> 
> 
> I have an array ref in $tmp, here is the Data::Dumpage
> 
> Thu Jan 26 10:00:40 2006 tmp: $VAR1 = [
>           '102',
>           '104'
>         ];
> 
> then I put that into my $params hashref
> 
>     $params->{donor_pk} = $tmp;

Are you sure that the line in your code doesn't look something more
like:

   $params->{donor_pk} = "$tmp";

It seems that your array ref is being stringified somewhere. Perhaps
including a sample of your actual code will shed more light.

-Colin.

> 
> then I Data::Dump the $params hashref
> 
> Thu Jan 26 10:00:40 2006 params: $VAR1 = {
>           'all' => '1',
>           'Submit' => '1',
>           'view' => 'donors',
>           'donor_pk' => 'ARRAY(0x60234)'
>         };
_____________________________________________________________
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From james at banshee.com  Thu Jan 26 17:02:54 2006
From: james at banshee.com (James Moore)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:02:54 -0800
Subject: SPUG: AJAX toolkits that play well with Perl?
Message-ID: <200601270102.k0R12hBj022101@server2.banshee.com>

I'm at Etel (http://conferences.oreillynet.com/etel2006/) right now, and
AJAX is coming up a lot.  Anyone using any AJAX toolkits that they like?

 - James


From tanwirh at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 28 11:58:43 2006
From: tanwirh at hotmail.com (Tanwir Habib)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 19:58:43 +0000
Subject: SPUG: IndexOf in Perl?
Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV7E836DC90E3943C0D9E1AB0170@phx.gbl>

Hi,

I've recently switched from .NET to Perl for my needs in  
bioinformatics work.

Is there a way in Perl to search an array with its value to get its  
index? like java does with "IndexOf".

Thanks in advance.

Habib

Hon. Research Assistant
Dept of Bioinformatics,
University of Exeter, Exeter
EX44QJ
United Kingdom



From charles.e.derykus at boeing.com  Sat Jan 28 13:46:42 2006
From: charles.e.derykus at boeing.com (DeRykus, Charles E)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:46:42 -0800
Subject: SPUG: IndexOf in Perl?
Message-ID: <FE10499CE029B841A9DAAF12E5A52A1B011D8F5B@XCH-NW-3V1.nw.nos.boeing.com>

 

> I've recently switched from .NET to Perl for my needs in
bioinformatics work.

> Is there a way in Perl to search an array with its value to get its
index? 
> like java does with "IndexOf".

There are several ways to do this in Perl of course but if you 
wanted an IndexOf lookalike:

sub IndexOf {     # pass in value, array reference
   my ( $value, $arrayref ) = ( shift, shift );
   foreach my $i ( 0 .. @$arrayref-1 )  {
      return $i if $$arrayref[$i] == $value;
   }
}

Example:   $index = IndexOf( 25,  \@array );

* I'm assuming numeric arrays so '==' is used instead of 'eq' 
 
* IndexOf returns an undefined value if the value isn't found


hth,
-- 
Charles DeRykus

From brianwisti at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 28 15:16:50 2006
From: brianwisti at yahoo.com (Brian Wisti)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 15:16:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: IndexOf in Perl?
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-DAV7E836DC90E3943C0D9E1AB0170@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20060128231650.2774.qmail@web53601.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Tanwir Habib <tanwirh at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I've recently switched from .NET to Perl for my needs in  
> bioinformatics work.
> 
> Is there a way in Perl to search an array with its value to get its  
> index? like java does with "IndexOf".
> 

You might try the List::Util module. It's core in 5.8.

  use List::Util qw(first);
  ...
  my $index = first { $_ == $test_value } @array;

Kind Regards,

Brian Wisti
http://coolnamehere.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From david.dyck at fluke.com  Sat Jan 28 15:32:40 2006
From: david.dyck at fluke.com (David Dyck)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 15:32:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: IndexOf in Perl?
In-Reply-To: <D499FC10-8A4B-43E3-9834-38B092E039D4@hotmail.com>
References: <D499FC10-8A4B-43E3-9834-38B092E039D4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0601281323010.18349@dd.tc.fluke.com>

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 at 11:58 -0800, Tanwir Habib <tanwirh at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I've recently switched from .NET to Perl for my needs in
> bioinformatics work.
>
> Is there a way in Perl to search an array with its value to get its
> index? like java does with "IndexOf".


Look at List::MoreUtils
   http://search.cpan.org/dist/List-MoreUtils/lib/List/MoreUtils.pm

perl -le 'use List::MoreUtils qw(firstidx); print firstidx { /z/ } ("a" .."z");'
25


firstidx BLOCK LIST
first_index BLOCK LIST

     Returns the index of the first element in LIST for which the criterion
     in BLOCK is true. Sets $_ for each item in LIST in turn:

         my @list = (1, 4, 3, 2, 4, 6);
         printf "item with index %i in list is 4", firstidx { $_ == 4 } @list;
         __END__
         item with index 1 in list is 4

     Returns -1 if no such item could be found.

     first_index is an alias for firstidx.


From david.dyck at fluke.com  Sat Jan 28 15:35:17 2006
From: david.dyck at fluke.com (David Dyck)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 15:35:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: IndexOf in Perl?
In-Reply-To: <20060128231650.2774.qmail@web53601.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060128231650.2774.qmail@web53601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0601281534320.18349@dd.tc.fluke.com>

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 at 15:16 -0800, Brian Wisti <brianwisti at yahoo.com> wrote:

> You might try the List::Util module. It's core in 5.8.
>
>  use List::Util qw(first);
>  ...
>  my $index = first { $_ == $test_value } @array;

$index is the element, not the index they were looking for.

perl -le ' use List::Util qw(first); print  first { /c/ } ('a' .. 'z'); '
c


From tanwirh at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 28 16:25:31 2006
From: tanwirh at hotmail.com (Tanwir Habib)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 00:25:31 +0000
Subject: SPUG: IndexOf in Perl?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0601281534320.18349@dd.tc.fluke.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV5E09E3A67C31A703E33D6B0160@phx.gbl>

Many thanks for the reply.

I'm not sure where I am wrong but its not working somehow

#!/usr/bin/perl -w

use strict;

use List::Util qw(first);


my @array = qw/AA AC AE AF AG CA CC CD DC CB VV YY/;



My $index = first {$_ eq 'AF'} @array;

print $index;

It should print 3 but its printing AF.

On 28/1/06 23:35, "David Dyck" <david.dyck at fluke.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 at 15:16 -0800, Brian Wisti <brianwisti at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> You might try the List::Util module. It's core in 5.8.
>> 
>>  use List::Util qw(first);
>>  ...
>>  my $index = first { $_ == $test_value } @array;
> 
> $index is the element, not the index they were looking for.
> 
> perl -le ' use List::Util qw(first); print  first { /c/ } ('a' .. 'z'); '
> c
> 
> 


From tim at consultix-inc.com  Sat Jan 28 18:56:28 2006
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 18:56:28 -0800
Subject: SPUG: [OT] Discounted training for List Members
Message-ID: <20060129025628.GA27271@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

Fellow Perl Mongrels,

As a gesture of *good will* (and /slow sales/), I'll give readers
of this list the "EarlyBird discount" (up to $120) on any of the
Seattle-area software training classes listed below--including
the first three, which are officially no longer available for
discounts.

Check out the announcement below!

-Tim
*-------------------------------------------------------------------*
|  Tim Maher, PhD  (206) 781-UNIX   (866) DOC-PERL  (866) DOC-UNIX  |
|  tim at ( Consultix-Inc, TeachMePerl, or TeachMeUnix ) dot Com    |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*
|   2/14: Linux  2/27: Perl  3/13: Shell  3/16: Utils  4/4: Hashes  |
*-------------------------------------------------------------------*

From:   Tim Maher, Consultix
  Re:   Extensive Class Schedule for Feb-Apr in Seattle
   
We've just scheduled the most extensive series of
training classes we've ever offered in Seattle--on UNIX, Linux,
and Perl topics!  What's more, we're also debuting a spanking-new
collection of high-speed big-screen student laptops for this set
of classes, which can triple-boot Linux, Solaris, and Windoze.

Here's the schedule of 12 classes; in 11 weeks!

-----------------------------------------------------
Consultix Public Class Schedule, Seattle Feb-Apr 2006
-----------------------------------------------------
           TITLE               DATES    Days   
    UNIX/Linux Fundamentals   2/14-2/17   4   
    Perl Programming          2/27-3/01   3  
    Perl Modules, plus CGI    3/02-3/03  1.5
    Shell Programming         3/13-3/15   3
    UNIX/Linux Utilities      3/16-3/17   2
    Minimal Perl                 4/3      1
    Perl Hashes & Arrays         4/4      1
    Intermediate Perl         4/05-4/07   3
    Adv. Shell Programming    4/10-4/14  4.5
    Minimal Perl                 4/24     1 
    Basic OO Perl             4/25-4/26   2 
    Int. Pattern Matching     4/27-4/28  1.5
-----------------------------------------------------

CLASS DESCRIPTIONS

Brief descriptions of the classes on the current
schedule are provided at
   http://consultix-inc.com/sched.html

PRICES AND REGISTRATION

Information on the registration process and class prices can
be found at http://www.consultix-inc.com/reg.txt

On-line registration will open soon.

QUESTIONS?

Let me know if you have any questions,

-Tim Maher
P.S. For groups of 3 or more students from the same company,
     ask about "on-site" classes!

************************************************************
                    CONSULTIX ON-LINE RESOURCES

General Information:
        http://www.consultix-inc.com

Minimal Perl book's web site, for info and ordering:
        http://manning.com/Maher

On-Site Training:
        http://www.consultix-inc.com/on-site.html

Course Listings:
        Perl,       http://TeachMePerl.com/perllist.html
        UNIX/Shell, http://TeachMeUnix.com/unixlist.html

Class Prices and Registration:
        http://www.consultix-inc.com/reg.txt
        http://www.consultix-inc.com/cgibin/register.cgi

Instructor Evaluations: http://www.consultix-inc.com/evals.html
    Course Evaluations: http://www.consultix-inc.com/course_evals.html

*-------------------------------------------------------------------*
|  Tim Maher, PhD  (206) 781-UNIX   (866) DOC-PERL  (866) DOC-UNIX  |
|  tim at ( Consultix-Inc, TeachMePerl, or TeachMeUnix ) dot Com    |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*
|  Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People" |
|  See MinimalPerl.com for details, ordering, and email-list signup |
*-------------------------------------------------------------------*
-- 
*-------------------------------------------------------------------*
|  Tim Maher, PhD  (206) 781-UNIX   (866) DOC-PERL  (866) DOC-UNIX  |
|  tim at ( Consultix-Inc, TeachMePerl, or TeachMeUnix ) dot Com    |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*
|   2/14: Linux  2/27: Perl  3/13: Shell  3/16: Utils  4/4: Hashes  |
| Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"  |
|  See MinimalPerl.com for details, ordering, and email-list signup |
*-------------------------------------------------------------------*

From aaron at activox.com  Sun Jan 29 12:11:59 2006
From: aaron at activox.com (aaron salo)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:11:59 -0800
Subject: SPUG: IndexOf in Perl?
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-DAV5E09E3A67C31A703E33D6B0160@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY103-DAV5E09E3A67C31A703E33D6B0160@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43DD218F.5020703@activox.com>

Tanwir Habib wrote:

>Many thanks for the reply.
>
>I'm not sure where I am wrong but its not working somehow
>
Hi Tanwir,
At the risk of being overly verbose, since you are new to perlish 
things, it may be useful to give you a solution that illustrates things 
in a less obscure manner than just calling a function in something from 
CPAN. And at the same time we get to use an array, a hash, and a regex. 
Instead of an obfuscated two liner, I wrote it out longways in the hope 
this may make it easier to see what's going on and perhaps make 
modifications to suit your need. Hooray.

The snippet below has a couple advantages, first, it uses regex match so 
it treats everything as strings (side benefit being you don't have to 
worry about whether to use 'eq' or '=='. It also corrects the potential 
flaw where there might be multiple matches in your list, if that should 
occur you get back a list of all of them instead of breaking on the 
first match. Welcome to perl and I hope you enjoy using it.

use strict;
my @array    = qw/AA AC AE AF AG CA CC CD DC CA FF RR 15 3M CA CB VV YY/;
my $matchval = 'CA';

# to get a list of the matches
# pass your matching string as the first item
# and your list after that
 
my %hits = listMatch($matchval, at array);

if (%hits) {
  
   foreach(sort {$a <=> $b} keys %hits) {
     
      # please note this is NOT the array index
      # it's the order in the list
      # subtract 1 to get the array index
     
      print qq(item $_ matches $hits{$_}\n);
   }
  
} else {
  
   print qq(sorry, no matches\n);
}

exit 0;

# ======

sub listMatch {

my @inbound = @_;
my $matchpattern = shift(@inbound);

my %outbound;
my $itemcount = @inbound;

   if ($itemcount) {
      for (my $i=1;$i<$itemcount;$i++) {
         my $thismember = $inbound[$i-1];
         if ($thismember =~ m/^$matchpattern$/) {
#            print qq(matching $thismember to $matchpattern as item $i\n);
            $outbound{$i} = $thismember;
         }
        
      }
     
   } else {
     
      # reserved for error handling, if no items received
  
   }

return(%outbound);

} # end sub listMatch

From cos at indeterminate.net  Sun Jan 29 18:43:34 2006
From: cos at indeterminate.net (John Costello)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:43:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SPUG: AJAX toolkits that play well with Perl?
In-Reply-To: <200601270102.k0R12hBj022101@server2.banshee.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0601291843160.15135-100000@olivia.indeterminate.net>

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, James Moore wrote:

> I'm at Etel (http://conferences.oreillynet.com/etel2006/) right now, and
> AJAX is coming up a lot.  Anyone using any AJAX toolkits that they like?

Catalyst <http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/> looks interesting.
 
>  - James
-----
John Costello - cos at indeterminate dot net


From rkosai at u.washington.edu  Tue Jan 31 23:01:02 2006
From: rkosai at u.washington.edu (Ryan T. Kosai)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 23:01:02 -0800
Subject: SPUG: Security through insecurity...
Message-ID: <43E05CAE.1020904@u.washington.edu>

Since I use my laptop for all my business, personal, and schoolwork, I 
end up bringing it with me to an inordinate number of destinations.  If 
it were lost, recovery would be more important to me than absolute 
security.  As such, I thought it would be a good idea to disable the 
password login and log directly into an unpriveleged account on start 
up, and write a quick tripwire program for my computer that would run at 
this time.  I'd log into a separate account to do school/business stuff. 
  Initially, I thought it would be best to post IP and tracert (Windows) 
pipe outputs to a webserver.  I thought it would be safer though, to be 
able to send an e-mail to several destinations, in case my webserver 
account could be compromised.

Now, to send this e-mail, I would have to log into a SMTP relay.  This 
would require a password; which I don't want plaintext or easily 
recoverable (such as ROT13 or such) in a Perl script.  So, in this case, 
an open SMTP relay seems best.

The question is, (a) is this a good idea to use an open SMTP relay?  (b) 
Is there a way to secure a password?  I notice this problem logging into 
mysql servers via Perl too.  (c) Besides IP and tracert, any other good 
information I could grab?  No built in mic or anything like that; its a 
simple laptop.

Thanks,
-- 
Ryan T. Kosai, Undergraduate                     rkosai at u.washington.edu
Molecular Biology/Electrical Engr.      //students.washington.edu/rkosai