From tim at consultix-inc.com  Sun Jan  2 14:54:10 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Sun Jan  2 14:54:22 2005
Subject: SPUG: Larry gives up on Perl, embraces Python!!
Message-ID: <20050102205410.GA7879@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>


For details on Larry's abandonment of Perl, see:

	http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/29032

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
*+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-*
|      Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
|   2/14: Minimal Perl  2/15: Hashes & Arrays  2/16-18: Intermediate Perl  |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From davidinnes at chicagoscience.com  Thu Jan  6 16:13:32 2005
From: davidinnes at chicagoscience.com (David Innes (CSG))
Date: Thu Jan  6 16:14:00 2005
Subject: SPUG: More Perl in the News: Why Six Apart is buying LiveJournal
In-Reply-To: <NIBBIKGJKJMFEMODGIPPCEIAEBAA.kmeyer@blarg.net>
Message-ID: <200501061417907.SM01672@Float>

According to a LiveJournal press release:

"Why is Six Apart buying LiveJournal? Lots of reasons: 

* Our companies are more alike than different. 
* We both use Perl. 
<snip>"

Link: http://www.livejournal.com/users/news/82926.html?style=mine

---

In a world increasingly dominated by PHP (according to my informal bookstore
shelf-space board-foot index) it's good to know that a majority of bloggers
have their heads (or at least their host software) in the right place.

		-- David Innes

___________________________________

 

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged,
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-----Original Message-----
From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org]
On Behalf Of Ken Meyer
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 9:57 AM
To: SPUG; SeaBUG; Seattle Linux List; SeaSLUG-list-ALL; Seattle SAGE-Members
Subject: SPUG: October 9th GSLUG Meeting: Unix Apps for Doc Creation;Sound
Record & Edit Using Audacity

The October 2004 meeting of the Greater Seattle Linux Users Group (GSLUG)
will be held this Saturday, October 9th, starting promptly at 10:00 AM
on the North Seattle Community College campus.

Please feel free to forward this announcement as appropriate.

  *************************************************************

    We are confirmed to use room IB 3319.  For directions, see the meetings
    page:  http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html

  *************************************************************

The presentation topics will be:

    * 10:00am - Overview of Document Formats Available Under Unix,
		    Including an Introduction to LyX for Easy Writing

                        By Jeremy Reed

This presentation will be an overview, with examples, of standard
documentation formats available under Unix, including nroff (and the
mandoc macro), DocBook, LaTeX, and others.  Some document
processing and conversion tools will also be described.

Use of the LyX document editor for easy document creation will be
introduced.  LyX is a full-featured graphical front-end for LaTeX, and
can be used to generate books, articles, reports, etc.  The presentation
will cover some of the standard uses of LyX, its common features,
how to get started using it, and examples of the generation of
ready-to-print documents.

The audience will be encouraged to share their experiences and advice
with document generation under Unix.

	Jeremy C. Reed's Bio:

    Jeremy is a journalist, Unix instructor and consultant (for Puget Sound
    Technology), and open source advocate.

	http://www.pugetsoundtechnology.com/

	http://bsd.reedmedia.net/

                                ---------------

    * 11:15am - Audacity

       By Matt Brubeck

Audacity is a free (GPL) audio recorder and multi-track sound editor.
Audacity is built on the cross-platform wxWidgets framework, and is
available for Linux, Mac OS, and Windows. It is designed for ease of
use, and efficient editing of large files with unlimited undo.

Presentation topics include:

    * Introduction to Audacity, with demonstrations of recording,
       mixing, and editing.

    * The developer's view: under the hood of Audacity.

    * Experiences with cross-platform development.

    * Legal hurdles, including licensing, MP3 patent issues, and
       trademark issues.

    * Preview of recent developments in Audacity CVS.

The Audacity web site: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

	Matt Brubeck's Bio:

    Matt Brubeck is one of the maintainers of the free (GPL) Audacity
    sound editor for Linux, Mac OS, and Windows. He also maintains
    the Debian package of Audacity, and is currently in the Debian
    "New Maintainer" process.

	http://advogato.org/person/mbrubeck/

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

    The typical GSLUG meeting agenda is as follows:

       10:00 AM       First Presentation

       11:00 AM       Break

       11:10 AM       Raffle Quiz

       11:15 AM       Second Presentation

       12:15 PM       Break

       12:30 PM       Raffle prizes giveaway

       12:35 PM       GSLUG announcements and business, including
                            discussion of potential future presentation
                            topics

                	        Announcements from attendees

                	        Requests for assistance with
trouble-shooting and
                            installations desired during the ensuing
                            Workshop session

       1:00 PM-ish    Formal meeting is adjourned; Workshop and
                             social networking opportunities begin,
                             including:

                * Installation and trouble-shooting assistance

                   For recommendations on preparations to maximize the
                   probability of a successful outcome, it is recommended
                   that you consult the "What to Bring" topic, way down the
                   page at:

                        http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html

                * Potential break-out discussions about interest-group
                   activities

                * Informal PGP key signing

                * Talking, chatting, blathering, etc, etc.

       4:00 pm        End of meeting

  -----------------------------------------------------------------------

GSLUG meetings are held regularly on the second Saturday of the month
at 10 AM, currently at North Seattle Community College.

Meeting announcements are posted to the gslug-announce mail list.
To receive reminders for future GSLUG meetings and notice of other
GSLUG activities, you are invited to join the list at:

        http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-announce

Directions, agenda, and presenters' bios will also be posted on
the GSLUG website, on the home page and at:

        http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html

You are invited to join the gslug-general discussion list at:

        http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general

A message board alternative may be found at:

        http://msgboard.gslug.org/

And a new wiki site is at:

        http://wiki.gslug.org/

  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

  -- The GSLUG Crew

_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org  http://spugwiki.perlocity.org
ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown
WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org



From sachin_chat at coolgoose.com  Thu Jan  6 22:22:39 2005
From: sachin_chat at coolgoose.com (Sachin Chaturvedi)
Date: Thu Jan  6 22:42:48 2005
Subject: SPUG: add a path to @INC
Message-ID: <1105072959.4114443463@as03.coolgoose.com>

i want to modify my @INC and want to add the path /pkg/perl5plus/lib in that . can i get any help in this issue.

Thanks
sachin
From kmeyer at blarg.net  Fri Jan  7 02:45:52 2005
From: kmeyer at blarg.net (Ken Meyer)
Date: Fri Jan  7 02:45:22 2005
Subject: SPUG: GSLUG January Meeting THIS SATURDAY, January 8th
Message-ID: <NJBBIKGJOOGHIEPGNPLAOEADCHAA.kmeyer@blarg.net>

The January 2005, regular meeting of the Greater Seattle Linux Users Group
(GSLUG) will be held this Saturday, January 8th, starting promptly at
10:00 AM on the North Seattle Community College campus.

  *************************************************************

    We are confirmed to use room IB 3319.

    Parking is free on weekends.

    For directions, please visit the GSLUG monthly meetings web page at:

     	http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html

    Please feel free to forward this announcement as appropriate.

  *************************************************************

The presentation topics will be:

    * 10:00 AM - Making a Go with Linux

		    By Don Huff

Management Communication Resource, Inc. is a laser printing and database
publishing firm that has the goal of becoming free of Microsoft, and of
operating wholly within the open source sphere. The company has several
Intel hosts running Apache, PHP, and Informix web servers, and a collection
of Mac and MS machines for employee use and testing.  On the back-end they
use LaTeX and various other tools to compose and manipulate Postscript and
PCL print streams that are destined for four Xerox and Cannon production
printers, or external suppliers' typesetters.

Mr. Huff's talk will focus on MCR's business environment, several actual
application scenarios, the challenges and their solutions.

                       Don Huff's Bio

Don Huff is currently employed by MCR, of Mayfield Village (east of
Cleveland) Ohio; but Don finds it a nicer to live in Seattle.  His job
entails web support for employees and customers, who are preparing or
accessing production data.
Don works from a Linux laptop machine, via Comcast, to access MCR's LAN
through its firewall, using SSH tunneling.

MCR is a small company of less than 20 people, engaged in the business of
laser printing and database publishing in the arenas of corporate benefit
books, price catalogs, professional association membership lists, paper
ballot voting materials, e-commerce and many other things.  MCR's
principals, including Don, have been in this business since before the PC
era.

                                ---------------

    * 11:15 AM - EtherDrive Storage Blades and the History of Networks and
Storage

                        By Sam Hopkins

This presentation addresses the history of disks and networking, and how
they came together. Mr. Hopkins will explain why EtherDrive storage blades,
based on the ATA-Over-Ethernet (AoE) protocol, are the logical next step in
the evolution of storage technology.  He will show how the Linux device
driver glues AoE devices present on a network into the block storage of the
system.  He will also discuss the applications for, and the performance of,
this approach.

Starting with the work at IBM in the 50's, the development of disk storage
technology has advanced non-stop. We will see how IBM channels, fiber
channel, SCSI, SMD, ST506 and ATA all fit into history.  The advent of
Ethernet networking in the 1970's ushered in a new era of storage: keeping
disks on one network node and doing the computation on another.  Ethernet
continues to affect storage, first with NFS, then iSCSI, and now AoE .

AoE is a simple ?Open Standards"-based protocol that is designed to
transport disk commands over Ethernet.  Using the AoE protocol, multiple
Servers can access EtherDrives as block storage devices that are
network-connected using standard Ethernet technology. EtherDrive provides
Storage Area Network (SAN) functionality without the need for expensive
Fiber-Channel networking technology.  Unlike iSCSI, the AoE protocol stack
does not require processing of TCP/IP, therefore eliminating the need for
expensive adapters on each server and providing inherent storage security.

EtherDrive? Storage Blades are Ethernet-connected hard disk drives. Using
EtherDrive Storage Blades, SAN's can be assembled for less than $1.50 per
Gigabyte, including the cost of disk drives and Ethernet switches (a
fraction of the cost of traditional SAN).  A shared pool of EtherDrive
Storage Blades can be expanded to multi-Petabytes.

                       Sam Hopkins' Bio

Sam Hopkins is co-author of the AoE protocol and the author of the Linux and
FreeBSD device drivers for the AoE protocol.  He works for Coraid, Inc.,
where he is responsible for OS development related to the AoE protocol and
EtherDrive Storage Blade implementation.

Coraid is a start-up, founded to provide the most affordable and flexible
storage possible to the Open Source community. Coraid's products includes
the EtherDrive Storage Blade and the RAIDblade RAID front-end.  Check this
out:

	http://www.coraid.com

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    The typical GSLUG meeting agenda is as follows:

       10:00 AM       First Presentation

       11:00 AM       Break

       11:10 AM       Key Announcements and (usually) Raffle Quiz

       11:15 AM       Second Presentation

       12:15 PM       Break

       12:30 PM       Raffle prize giveaway, when available.  Prizes
                            typically consist of current books donated by
                            O'Reilly, Addison-Wesley, and author Brian
Hatch.
                            Tickets are available for: 1) Arriving at the
meeting
                            on time, 2) Winning Trivia Quiz questions, and
                            3) Donating to GSLUG's room rental fund.

       12:35 PM       GSLUG business, including:

                            Discussion of potential future presentation
topics

                	        Announcements by attendees

                	        Receiving requests for assistance desired during
                            the ensuing Workshop Session, including
		        trouble-shooting and help with Linux installation
		        (bring your system).

       1:00 PM-ish    Formal meeting is adjourned; Workshop and
                             social networking opportunities begin,
                             including:

                * Installation and trouble-shooting assistance

                   For recommendations on preparations to maximize the
                   probability of a successful outcome, it is recommended
                   that you consult the "What to Bring" topic, way down the
                   page at:

                        http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html

                * Potential break-out discussions about interest-group
                   activities

                * Informal PGP key signing

                * Social networking and group discussions

       4:00 PM        End of meeting

  -----------------------------------------------------------------------

GSLUG meetings are held regularly on the second Saturday of the month
at 10 AM, currently at North Seattle Community College and USUALLY
in room 3319.

Meeting announcements are posted to the gslug-announce mail list.
To receive reminders for future GSLUG meetings and notice of other
GSLUG activities, you are invited to join the list at:

        http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-announce

Directions, agenda, and presenters' bios will also be posted on
the GSLUG website, on the home page and at:

        http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html

You are invited to join the gslug-general discussion list at:

        http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general

A message board alternative may be found at:

        http://msgboard.gslug.org/

And a new wiki site is at:

        http://wiki.gslug.org/


  -- The GSLUG Crew

------------------------------- 30 ----------------------------

From andrew at sweger.net  Fri Jan  7 11:13:13 2005
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Fri Jan  7 11:13:15 2005
Subject: SPUG: add a path to @INC
In-Reply-To: <1105072959.4114443463@as03.coolgoose.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501070910340.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Sachin Chaturvedi wrote:

> i want to modify my @INC and want to add the path /pkg/perl5plus/lib
> in that . can i get any help in this issue.

In a Perl script or module:

    use lib '/pkg/perl5plus/lib';

For a one-liner:

    perl -I/pkg/perl5plus/lib -e '...'

For more information:

    perldoc lib

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From andrew at sweger.net  Sun Jan  9 21:01:21 2005
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Sun Jan  9 21:01:30 2005
Subject: SPUG: Ignore: testing new mail server
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501092050490.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

This should have arrived through the new mail server. Hope it works.

ObPerl:

I just had some fun using split() to break up a HTML document into HTML
tags and the text found between them.

    local $/;            # enable slurp mode
    my $file = <>;       # slurp file
    $file =~ s/\n+/ /g;  # replace newlines
    my @parts = split /(?=<)|(?<=>)/s, $file;

That regex broken out:

    /
        (?=  < )  # matches zero width (intercharacter) before '<'
      |
        (?<= > )  # matches zero width after '>'
    /sx;

Seemed like a fun way to break up some HTML so I could get at its parts
without actually parsing for something more serious (I was interested in
the changes to versions of the file sans HTML markup, but needed to retain
the markup in the stream).

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From andrew at sweger.net  Sun Jan  9 21:13:53 2005
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Sun Jan  9 21:14:01 2005
Subject: SPUG: procmail for spug-list (was: testing new mail server)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501092050490.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501092107120.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005, Andrew Sweger wrote:

> This should have arrived through the new mail server. Hope it works.

Looks like it worked. For those using the List-Id header in procmail to
sort/filter SPUG messages, it looks like it has changed from:

    * ^List-Id: .*<spug-list\.mail\.pm\.org>

to

    * ^List-Id: .*<spug-list\.pm\.org>

For the extremely lazy:

    perl -pei 's/(?<=spug-list\\.)mail\\.//' ~/.procmailrc

Of course, that assumes you used a pattern that looks just like mine. That
also assumes that code actually works. I have no idea. Copy and execute at
your own risk.

Oh, and it looks like the next SPUG meeting is only a week from this
Tuesday. Wow. That snuck up quick on me. I'm checking with the kind person
who volunteered to speak this month to make sure he's still interested and
will get that information out as soon as possible. His topic will be the
Commands::Guarded module.

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From andrew at sweger.net  Wed Jan 12 08:33:40 2005
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Wed Jan 12 08:33:50 2005
Subject: SPUG: Meeting Announcement -- Commands::Guarded - 18 January 2005
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501120738180.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>


         January 2005 Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting
         ====================================================
  
       Title: Better Scripting with Commands::Guarded
     Speaker: Trey Harris

Meeting Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 
Meeting Time: 7:00 - 9:00 p.m. (networking 6:30 - 7:00)
    Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med Building
              
        Cost: Admission is free and open to the general public
        Info: http://seattleperl.org/

             ===========================================

(Read this next line in a dramatic voice, like a radio announcer. Do this
out loud if you're working in a cubicle right now.)

See below for amazingly astounding information on...

    - Speaker Background
    - Presentation Description
    - RSVP
    - Pre-meeting Dinner
    - Internet Access at Meeting
    - PGP/GnuPG Key Exchange
    - Directions to Meeting

(I'll try to get the web site updated by tomorrow. I have an urgent matter
at hand -- the sound of dripping water were there should not be.)

Speaker Background
==================

Trey Harris is a system administrator and system architect with over
twelve years of experience at academic, financial and technology sites,
including Morgan Stanley, VA Linux Systems, and the University of North
Carolina.  He has been an enthusiastic user of Perl for the entire time --
his first paying job in technology was modifying Tom Christiansen's
"vacation" script to work in an Andrew File System environment.  He is
currently a Senior Systems Engineer at Amazon.com in Seattle.

Presentation Description
========================

Programming methodologies have been researched for decades, and some (e.g.
abstract datatypes, object orientation, design-by-contract) have stood the
test of time.  But what about this thing called a "script"?  Is it just a
term for a sloppily-written program?  If not, are standard programming
methodologies applicable to scripting?

This talk will argue that scripts are qualitatively different from
general-purpose programs and that they need a different methodology. The
methodology presented, Procedural Test-Oriented Scripting, encapsulates a
script as a series of "steps" that have states that must be ensured, along
with actions that will bring the state about.  A module implementing this
methodology, Commands::Guarded, will be introduced to illustrate.

A script written with Commands::Guarded is more resilient, more useful,
and easier to write than its conventional equivalent.  Examples of such
scripts will be shown.

Finally, the internals of the module, written in pure Perl and available
on CPAN, will be discussed.  As a module that munges Perl's syntax by
introducing a new control flow construct, the ideas may be of interest
even to those Perl programmers who do not spend a great deal of time
scripting.

RSVP
====

If you've signed up and RSVP'd on Meetup.com, great. If you emailed me,
great. If you emailed C.J., great. If you haven't done any of that, great.
Just show up. But it would be really nice if you took a couple minutes to
sign-up on Meetup.com and indicate if you'll be attending. It's not
required, but it is immensely helpful to planning and makes things move
slicker 'an grass through a goose.

If you personally feel that you have a 50% or better chance of showing up
at the meeting, please RSVP. Toward that end, I have setup a Perl
Meetup.com group,

  http://perl.meetup.com/86/

Please consider signing up and joining the SPUG meetup.com group. Through
the website, you may manage your RSVP for the meeting and request
automatic reminders be emailed to you personally.

Pre-meeting Dinner
==================

Last month, we met at Hing Loon (awesome food, awesome company). This
month we'll meet a couple doors to the west at Pho Hoa at 5:30. Please
join me for some of the best Vietnamese beef broth noodle soup south of
Than Brothers. It's just under a mile away from the Amazon.com office just
across the Dr. Jose P. Rizal bridge. Go ahead and email me by 3:00 pm, 18
January, if you're pretty sure you'll make it. But don't let that stop you
from showing up. Do try to show up by 5:45 because this place fills up.

    Pho Hoa II
    618 S Weller St
    (206) 624-7189 (restaurant phone)

    Map:        http://yp.yahoo.com/py/ypMap.py?Pyt=Typ&tuid=10488072&ck=1891460387&tab=B2C&tcat=8903827&city=Seattle&state=WA&zip=98133-7119&uzip=98133&country=us&msa=7600&cs=9&ed=lRzNlK160SzczSFU3T4PJw1VLUcmpFrkhEW2BVlEha_U7d8JRroNqEidMfosvNoffKFxYWVrtx_pFhe9&stat=:pos:0:regular:regT:10:fbT:0
    Directions: http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?&csz=Seattle+WA+98144-2734&ed=.JMEaK1v1CyvAEYsmBcrhiGmwCqnyHjvmHYTQV0EYEWZStSrTQG12pK9CSFgG3cgCN7DgUt4eP9uFx1bGb9B7vHp1eKzmBNX2VbfJxkIBXCzKSTX.STDwDpT7WgDi6COUlXQdVG.C3W4H853FBM.yDJnqQ--&country=us&tcsz=Seattle+WA+98104&tcountry=us&tcs=9&tname=Pho+Hoa+II&tdesc=(206)+624-7189

Internet Access at Meeting
==========================

A link to the Internet will be provided at the meeting (provided you have
suitable equipment). Tables, power strips, and Ethernet hubs will be
available in limited quantity. 802.11g WiFi will be available. Please use
the SSID: SPUG. The beacon will be broadcasting. No WEP/WPA. Please note
that the provided network services are _not_ secure. As I'm sure most of
you know, it is a trivial matter to "sniff" network traffic. Please use a
secure application encryption protocol or other secure VPN solution to
protect sensitive information. Use of the the provided network services is
at your own risk. Be a good network citizen. The network services are
provided gratis by our hosts. Access can be revoked at any time without
prior notification.

PGP/GnuPG Key Exchange
======================

If you want to exchange PGP/GnuPG signatures, please contact me directly
with your public key (now!) and I'll bring fingerprint checklists for
participants. Contact me if you want to know more. Oh, and you have to
show up at the meeting to exchange ID's and all that, please. Otherwise
this whole key exchange thing doesn't work.

Directions to Meeting
=====================

Please let me know if you find errors or a better route. Thanks.

I-5 (from North or South)
-------------------------

On I-5, take the S Dearborn St exit and turn West on Dearborn (I-5
Southbound: turn right; I-5 Northbound: turn left) and proceed
approximately one or two blocks.

Turn right on 8th Ave S (the first light) and proceed North for three
blocks.

Turn right on S King St and proceed East for approximately five
blocks. You will pass under I-5.

Turn right on 12th Ave S and proceed South for approximately five blocks.
Along this way, you will cross over the Dr. Jose P. Rizal bridge and you
should see the Pac-Med tower directly ahead.

At this point, notice that you have been going in a circle.

Skip to Pac-Med Building below.


I-90 (from East)
----------------

On I-90, take the Rainier Ave S (hwy 900) exit Northbound and proceed
approximately six blocks.

Turn left on S King St and proceed West for approximately two blocks.

Turn left on 12th Ave S and proceed South for approximately five blocks.
Along this way, you will cross over the Dr. Jose P. Rizal bridge and you
should see the Pac-Med tower directly ahead.


Pac-Med Building
----------------

Turn right at Charles St (the light after the bridge). The Amazon.com
Pac-Med building is visible ahead and on the left as you make the turn and
proceed South on Charles (Charles borders the West side of the
building).

The North parking lot entrance will be the second drive way on the left
(the first has a Do Not Enter sign). The parking lot is on the left just
past the parking attendant booth. The "carpool only" spaces should be okay
to park in after 6:30.

Walk to the South entrance of the tower. There is stair next to the
parking garage structure that leads to a convenient path that goes around
the building to the main entrance on the South side of the building.

Enter building and go to the security desk. Sign in and wait to be
escorted to the meeting room (just like when we met at Safeco in the
U-district, more or less).


Yahoo! Maps:

  http://us.rd.yahoo.com/maps//maps/extmap/*-http://maps.yahoo.com//maps_result?csz=Seattle%2C+WA+98144-2712&state=WA&uzip=98144&ds=n&name=&desc=&ed=uVHuJep_0TqNClJbk4iFOtDnYtddbn81hKmaNuXswR2pUy1qXnoKfGK_rtqkypGYq5f_zb5ghVDwhYc8gzs3td4sOl73q3BVDyr7btbB3VI4IrVR&zoomin=yes&BFKey=&mag=9

MapQuest:

  http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=address&searchtype=address&address=1200+12th+ave+s&city=&state=&zipcode=98144&search=++Search++



From pdarley at kinesis-cem.com  Thu Jan 13 07:30:14 2005
From: pdarley at kinesis-cem.com (Peter Darley)
Date: Thu Jan 13 07:30:28 2005
Subject: SPUG: CGI.pm issue
Message-ID: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPAENIDLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>

Folks,
	I had a problem with CGI.pm, that I was able to resolve, but now I'm just
trying to understand exactly what the problem was.

	The problem was that when I had a textarea form field that had a lot of
data in it, the end of the data would be cut off.  I tracked this down to
the read_from_client sub, which is only called once, so has to return all
the data from the post in one go.  It wasn't returning all the data however.

	The original sub looks like this:

# Read data from a file handle
sub read_from_client {
    my($self, $fh, $buff, $len, $offset) = @_;
    local $^W=0;                # prevent a warning
    return undef unless defined($fh);
    return read($fh, $$buff, $len, $offset);
}

	I checked $len and it always matched the ammount of data that was expected,
and offset was always 0, but it wouldn't read all the data in one go.  I
couldn't find anything that indicated that read had an upper limit on what
it would grab in one go.  Is there a limit like this?

	The new sub looks like this:

# Read data from a file handle
sub read_from_client {
    my($self, $fh, $buff, $len, $offset) = @_;
    local $^W=0;                # prevent a warning
    return undef unless defined($fh);
#    return read($fh, $$buff, $len, $offset);

    while (read($fh, $Result, $len, $offset))
    {
        $$buff .= $Result;
    }

    return 0;
}

	Which works fine.  Basically I'm just reading till I run out of data and
then returning 0 which is what read should return when it hits an EOF.

	Anyway, I'm not sure what was causing the origional problem, so I'm not
entirely sure that this is a totally safe change.  I have done a lot of
testing and it seems to behave correctly.

	Any revelation about what's going on here is appreciated.

Thanks,
Peter Darley

From charles.e.derykus at boeing.com  Thu Jan 13 10:21:19 2005
From: charles.e.derykus at boeing.com (DeRykus, Charles E)
Date: Thu Jan 13 10:21:42 2005
Subject: SPUG: CGI.pm issue
Message-ID: <5DF8FDE8DFE8744388602480FDCC0E3106F3D016@xch-nw-23.nw.nos.boeing.com>

I'm actually surprised that this was implemented with 'read'
rather than the lower level, faster sysread. It must have been
deemed adequate though since textarea usually don't try to
pass for the kitchen sink :)

Your revision sidesteps a potential OS 'gulp delay' for a ton
of data by looping. However, a longer term outage might still 
occur and be problematic so I'd recommend an alarm and short 
term timeout mechanism to avoid blocking forever if you really
need huge gulps.

--
Charles DeRykus


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Darley [mailto:pdarley@kinesis-cem.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 7:30 AM
To: SPUG
Subject: SPUG: CGI.pm issue


Folks,
	I had a problem with CGI.pm, that I was able to resolve, but now I'm just trying to understand exactly what the problem was.

	The problem was that when I had a textarea form field that had a lot of data in it, the end of the data would be cut off.  I tracked this down to the read_from_client sub, which is only called once, so has to return all the data from the post in one go.  It wasn't returning all the data however.

	The original sub looks like this:

# Read data from a file handle
sub read_from_client {
    my($self, $fh, $buff, $len, $offset) = @_;
    local $^W=0;                # prevent a warning
    return undef unless defined($fh);
    return read($fh, $$buff, $len, $offset);
}

	I checked $len and it always matched the ammount of data that was expected, and offset was always 0, but it wouldn't read all the data in one go.  I couldn't find anything that indicated that read had an upper limit on what it would grab in one go.  Is there a limit like this?

	The new sub looks like this:

# Read data from a file handle
sub read_from_client {
    my($self, $fh, $buff, $len, $offset) = @_;
    local $^W=0;                # prevent a warning
    return undef unless defined($fh);
#    return read($fh, $$buff, $len, $offset);

    while (read($fh, $Result, $len, $offset))
    {
        $$buff .= $Result;
    }

    return 0;
}

	Which works fine.  Basically I'm just reading till I run out of data and then returning 0 which is what read should return when it hits an EOF.

	Anyway, I'm not sure what was causing the origional problem, so I'm not entirely sure that this is a totally safe change.  I have done a lot of testing and it seems to behave correctly.

	Any revelation about what's going on here is appreciated.

Thanks,
Peter Darley

_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
     POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
From pdarley at kinesis-cem.com  Thu Jan 13 10:30:42 2005
From: pdarley at kinesis-cem.com (Peter Darley)
Date: Thu Jan 13 10:30:55 2005
Subject: SPUG: CGI.pm issue
In-Reply-To: <5DF8FDE8DFE8744388602480FDCC0E3106F3D016@xch-nw-23.nw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPCENJDLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>

Charles,

	Thanks for replying!

	So, to rephrase this, the OS (or Apache or something) isn't passing the
data fast enough for the entire block to get there in time for one read to
catch it all, and doing the read repetitively gives it time to catch up.  If
this isn't what you're saying, let me know. :)

	Is your concern on the longer term outage that if a client drops during a
post my loop will just continue forever?  If that's not it, could you
elaborate on what the danger might come from?

Thanks,
Peter Darley

-----Original Message-----
From: DeRykus, Charles E [mailto:charles.e.derykus@boeing.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 10:21 AM
To: Peter Darley; SPUG
Subject: RE: SPUG: CGI.pm issue


I'm actually surprised that this was implemented with 'read'
rather than the lower level, faster sysread. It must have been
deemed adequate though since textarea usually don't try to
pass for the kitchen sink :)

Your revision sidesteps a potential OS 'gulp delay' for a ton
of data by looping. However, a longer term outage might still
occur and be problematic so I'd recommend an alarm and short
term timeout mechanism to avoid blocking forever if you really
need huge gulps.

--
Charles DeRykus


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Darley [mailto:pdarley@kinesis-cem.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 7:30 AM
To: SPUG
Subject: SPUG: CGI.pm issue


Folks,
	I had a problem with CGI.pm, that I was able to resolve, but now I'm just
trying to understand exactly what the problem was.

	The problem was that when I had a textarea form field that had a lot of
data in it, the end of the data would be cut off.  I tracked this down to
the read_from_client sub, which is only called once, so has to return all
the data from the post in one go.  It wasn't returning all the data however.

	The original sub looks like this:

# Read data from a file handle
sub read_from_client {
    my($self, $fh, $buff, $len, $offset) = @_;
    local $^W=0;                # prevent a warning
    return undef unless defined($fh);
    return read($fh, $$buff, $len, $offset);
}

	I checked $len and it always matched the ammount of data that was expected,
and offset was always 0, but it wouldn't read all the data in one go.  I
couldn't find anything that indicated that read had an upper limit on what
it would grab in one go.  Is there a limit like this?

	The new sub looks like this:

# Read data from a file handle
sub read_from_client {
    my($self, $fh, $buff, $len, $offset) = @_;
    local $^W=0;                # prevent a warning
    return undef unless defined($fh);
#    return read($fh, $$buff, $len, $offset);

    while (read($fh, $Result, $len, $offset))
    {
        $$buff .= $Result;
    }

    return 0;
}

	Which works fine.  Basically I'm just reading till I run out of data and
then returning 0 which is what read should return when it hits an EOF.

	Anyway, I'm not sure what was causing the origional problem, so I'm not
entirely sure that this is a totally safe change.  I have done a lot of
testing and it seems to behave correctly.

	Any revelation about what's going on here is appreciated.

Thanks,
Peter Darley

_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
     POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Thu Jan 13 18:04:38 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Thu Jan 13 18:05:05 2005
Subject: SPUG: meetup.com
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050113175643.026f7280@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>


If you haven't already done so, you can register here
http://perl.meetup.com/
to indicat the level of participation that SPUG has.

I just became member #32, making us one shy of the most populated 
group.  Anone wanna be the tie breaker?



Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net

From spud at spudzeppelin.com  Fri Jan 14 08:30:06 2005
From: spud at spudzeppelin.com (Jeff Almeida)
Date: Fri Jan 14 08:30:37 2005
Subject: SPUG: CGI.pm issue
In-Reply-To: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPCENJDLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>
References: <5DF8FDE8DFE8744388602480FDCC0E3106F3D016@xch-nw-23.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPCENJDLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>
Message-ID: <20050114163006.GA87563@brighton.offwhite.net>

Peter,

This may very-well be related to the way that Apache is passing the data. 
In particular, I'm curious as to the following:

* Which version of Apache you're running?
* On what OS?
* If it's a 2.0-flavored Apache, with which MPM?
* If it's a 2.0-flavored Apache, are you running any filters?
* What kind of byte count in the textarea was causing the cutoff?

jeff :)

Also Sprach Peter Darley:
>Charles,
>
>	Thanks for replying!
>
>	So, to rephrase this, the OS (or Apache or something) isn't passing the
>data fast enough for the entire block to get there in time for one read to
>catch it all, and doing the read repetitively gives it time to catch up.  If
>this isn't what you're saying, let me know. :)
>
>	Is your concern on the longer term outage that if a client drops during a
>post my loop will just continue forever?  If that's not it, could you
>elaborate on what the danger might come from?
>
>Thanks,
>Peter Darley
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeRykus, Charles E [mailto:charles.e.derykus@boeing.com]
>Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 10:21 AM
>To: Peter Darley; SPUG
>Subject: RE: SPUG: CGI.pm issue
>
>
>I'm actually surprised that this was implemented with 'read'
>rather than the lower level, faster sysread. It must have been
>deemed adequate though since textarea usually don't try to
>pass for the kitchen sink :)
>
>Your revision sidesteps a potential OS 'gulp delay' for a ton
>of data by looping. However, a longer term outage might still
>occur and be problematic so I'd recommend an alarm and short
>term timeout mechanism to avoid blocking forever if you really
>need huge gulps.
>
>--
>Charles DeRykus
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Darley [mailto:pdarley@kinesis-cem.com]
>Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 7:30 AM
>To: SPUG
>Subject: SPUG: CGI.pm issue
>
>
>Folks,
>	I had a problem with CGI.pm, that I was able to resolve, but now I'm just
>trying to understand exactly what the problem was.
>
>	The problem was that when I had a textarea form field that had a lot of
>data in it, the end of the data would be cut off.  I tracked this down to
>the read_from_client sub, which is only called once, so has to return all
>the data from the post in one go.  It wasn't returning all the data however.
>
>	The original sub looks like this:
>
># Read data from a file handle
>sub read_from_client {
>    my($self, $fh, $buff, $len, $offset) = @_;
>    local $^W=0;                # prevent a warning
>    return undef unless defined($fh);
>    return read($fh, $$buff, $len, $offset);
>}
>
>	I checked $len and it always matched the ammount of data that was expected,
>and offset was always 0, but it wouldn't read all the data in one go.  I
>couldn't find anything that indicated that read had an upper limit on what
>it would grab in one go.  Is there a limit like this?
>
>	The new sub looks like this:
>
># Read data from a file handle
>sub read_from_client {
>    my($self, $fh, $buff, $len, $offset) = @_;
>    local $^W=0;                # prevent a warning
>    return undef unless defined($fh);
>#    return read($fh, $$buff, $len, $offset);
>
>    while (read($fh, $Result, $len, $offset))
>    {
>        $$buff .= $Result;
>    }
>
>    return 0;
>}
>
>	Which works fine.  Basically I'm just reading till I run out of data and
>then returning 0 which is what read should return when it hits an EOF.
>
>	Anyway, I'm not sure what was causing the origional problem, so I'm not
>entirely sure that this is a totally safe change.  I have done a lot of
>testing and it seems to behave correctly.
>
>	Any revelation about what's going on here is appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>Peter Darley
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>     POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
>SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
>     POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
>SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

-- 
******************************************************************************
"Modern technology is already in use that makes electronic voting possible, 
 with accurate and almost immediate tabulation and with paper ballot printouts 
 so all voters can have confidence in the integrity of the process." -J.Carter
******************************************************************************
Jeff D. "Spud (Zeppelin)" Almeida                              Corinth, TX, US
From pdarley at kinesis-cem.com  Fri Jan 14 11:31:04 2005
From: pdarley at kinesis-cem.com (Peter Darley)
Date: Fri Jan 14 11:31:21 2005
Subject: SPUG: CGI.pm issue
In-Reply-To: <20050114163006.GA87563@brighton.offwhite.net>
Message-ID: <EMEMJCEBJDAOLBCKJPNBAEGMCBAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>

Jeff,

	I can't say what the byte count was.  It was less than two pages of text,
so definitely less than 10K, probably less than 2K, maby as little as 1K.
Next time I'm in the office I can change my test server back and find out
for sure.

	Here's most of the info you asked for:

/proc/version:
Linux version 2.4.20-8 (bhcompile@stripples.devel.redhat.com) (gcc version
3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)) #1 Thu Mar 13 17:18:24 EST 2003

rpm -qi http:
Name        : httpd                        Relocations: (not relocateable)
Version     : 2.0.40                            Vendor: Red Hat, Inc.
Release     : 21                            Build Date: Tue Feb 25 02:07:14
2003
Install Date: Tue Oct 14 05:15:20 2003      Build Host:
daffy.perf.redhat.com
Group       : System Environment/Daemons    Source RPM:
httpd-2.0.40-21.src.rpm
Size        : 2493055                          License: Apache Software
License
Signature   : DSA/SHA1, Tue Feb 25 07:05:56 2003, Key ID 219180cddb42a60e
Packager    : Red Hat, Inc. <http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla>
URL         : http://httpd.apache.org/
Summary     : Apache HTTP Server

	I'm not sure how to check filters.  The lines in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf
that talk about filters are:

AddOutputFilter INCLUDES .shtml

<IfModule mod_negotiation.c>
<IfModule mod_include.c>
    <Directory "/var/www/error">
        AllowOverride None
        Options IncludesNoExec
        AddOutputFilter Includes html

	I also don't know how to check for MPM.  Let me know how to check it and I
will.

Thanks,
Peter Darley

-----Original Message-----
From: spug-list-bounces@pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@pm.org]On
Behalf Of Jeff Almeida
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 8:30 AM
To: Peter Darley
Cc: SPUG
Subject: Re: SPUG: CGI.pm issue


Peter,

This may very-well be related to the way that Apache is passing the data.
In particular, I'm curious as to the following:

* Which version of Apache you're running?
* On what OS?
* If it's a 2.0-flavored Apache, with which MPM?
* If it's a 2.0-flavored Apache, are you running any filters?
* What kind of byte count in the textarea was causing the cutoff?

jeff :)

Also Sprach Peter Darley:
>Charles,
>
>	Thanks for replying!
>
>	So, to rephrase this, the OS (or Apache or something) isn't passing the
>data fast enough for the entire block to get there in time for one read to
>catch it all, and doing the read repetitively gives it time to catch up.
If
>this isn't what you're saying, let me know. :)
>
>	Is your concern on the longer term outage that if a client drops during a
>post my loop will just continue forever?  If that's not it, could you
>elaborate on what the danger might come from?
>
>Thanks,
>Peter Darley
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeRykus, Charles E [mailto:charles.e.derykus@boeing.com]
>Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 10:21 AM
>To: Peter Darley; SPUG
>Subject: RE: SPUG: CGI.pm issue
>
>
>I'm actually surprised that this was implemented with 'read'
>rather than the lower level, faster sysread. It must have been
>deemed adequate though since textarea usually don't try to
>pass for the kitchen sink :)
>
>Your revision sidesteps a potential OS 'gulp delay' for a ton
>of data by looping. However, a longer term outage might still
>occur and be problematic so I'd recommend an alarm and short
>term timeout mechanism to avoid blocking forever if you really
>need huge gulps.
>
>--
>Charles DeRykus
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Darley [mailto:pdarley@kinesis-cem.com]
>Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 7:30 AM
>To: SPUG
>Subject: SPUG: CGI.pm issue
>
>
>Folks,
>	I had a problem with CGI.pm, that I was able to resolve, but now I'm just
>trying to understand exactly what the problem was.
>
>	The problem was that when I had a textarea form field that had a lot of
>data in it, the end of the data would be cut off.  I tracked this down to
>the read_from_client sub, which is only called once, so has to return all
>the data from the post in one go.  It wasn't returning all the data
however.
>
>	The original sub looks like this:
>
># Read data from a file handle
>sub read_from_client {
>    my($self, $fh, $buff, $len, $offset) = @_;
>    local $^W=0;                # prevent a warning
>    return undef unless defined($fh);
>    return read($fh, $$buff, $len, $offset);
>}
>
>	I checked $len and it always matched the ammount of data that was
expected,
>and offset was always 0, but it wouldn't read all the data in one go.  I
>couldn't find anything that indicated that read had an upper limit on what
>it would grab in one go.  Is there a limit like this?
>
>	The new sub looks like this:
>
># Read data from a file handle
>sub read_from_client {
>    my($self, $fh, $buff, $len, $offset) = @_;
>    local $^W=0;                # prevent a warning
>    return undef unless defined($fh);
>#    return read($fh, $$buff, $len, $offset);
>
>    while (read($fh, $Result, $len, $offset))
>    {
>        $$buff .= $Result;
>    }
>
>    return 0;
>}
>
>	Which works fine.  Basically I'm just reading till I run out of data and
>then returning 0 which is what read should return when it hits an EOF.
>
>	Anyway, I'm not sure what was causing the origional problem, so I'm not
>entirely sure that this is a totally safe change.  I have done a lot of
>testing and it seems to behave correctly.
>
>	Any revelation about what's going on here is appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>Peter Darley
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>     POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
>SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>     POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
>SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

--
****************************************************************************
**
"Modern technology is already in use that makes electronic voting possible,
 with accurate and almost immediate tabulation and with paper ballot
printouts
 so all voters can have confidence in the integrity of the
process." -J.Carter
****************************************************************************
**
Jeff D. "Spud (Zeppelin)" Almeida                              Corinth, TX,
US
_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
     POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

From kmeyer at blarg.net  Fri Jan 14 11:51:56 2005
From: kmeyer at blarg.net (Ken Meyer)
Date: Fri Jan 14 11:51:34 2005
Subject: SPUG: FW: [Seattle Cisco User's Group] Available Job Opportunity
	....
Message-ID: <NJBBIKGJOOGHIEPGNPLACEAICIAA.kmeyer@blarg.net>

FYI.

Ken Meyer


-----Original Message-----

From: Stevo Devo [mailto:ozbergs@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 11:26 AM
To: seattleciscousersgroup@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Seattle Cisco User's Group] Available Job Opportunity ....

Or you may contact me directly (sberg@renditionnetworks.com) and I will get
your resume into the hands of the hiring manager.

We have another contract / moonlight opportunity at Rendition Networks
(www.renditionnetworks.com) that may be of interest.  We are looking at
beefing up TrueControl's scripting offering... as you may or may not know we
do configuration management on network devices, but we also offer the
ability for our customers to write scripts to modify devices - both in the
devices' native language (like IOS configuration mode or CatOS mode) and in
more generic languages like Perl and Expect.  Some examples of our canned
scripts are things like changing the banner or setting the NTP server on a
group of devices, but we want to offer better scripts out of the box.

Here's where I was hoping someone would be able to help... Are you good at
scripting and have a solid network background and would be interested in
some consulting / moonlighting work?  We're looking for both a good
scripting person as well as someone that can come up with some good (and
useful) scripting examples!!

If that's you - please drop me an email with your resume and hourly rate.

Thanks

-Steve


  ----- Original Message -----

  From:   kendalgabel
  To: seattleciscousersgroup@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 6:19 PM

  Subject: [Seattle Cisco User's Group]   Available Job Opportunity ....

Hello,

I was contacted by a recruiter who was   looking for a Network Engineer
for a contract position. I thought there   might be some people out
there who may be interested in this   opportunity.

I have included the job description below.

The recruiter is Crystal Serrato at Volt.

Her phone number is   425-702-9000.

Good luck,

Kendal    #:-)


>Position: QA Network Engineer
>
>Tasks
>
>Quality assurance role that leverages candidate knowledge of   network
technologies, best practices, management systems and a broad array   of
network devices. Work with their extensive multi-vendor network lab
in the development of a multi-vendor enterprise network management
application.
>
>Test all aspects of the   TrueControl network configuration control
system, including product   features/functionality, network device
support, stress and scalability

>Create scripts and tools as needed

>Act as customer advocate   and domain expert on real-world network
scenarios

>Participate in the design of new product features and evaluate
usability

>Participate in tier-1/tier-2 product support rotation as needed

>Write release notes and knowledge base cases
>
>Skills Needed:
>
>Highly motivated, high energy,   self-directed.

>Bachelors degree or higher in technical/scientific   discipline.

>Industry experience in network engineering

>Experience in Software Quality Assurance / Testing

>Strong   network device configuration skills and experience (IOS,
etc.); preferably   across multiple network device vendors (including
Cisco, Nortel, Extreme,   Foundry, Juniper, F5)

>Experience with and interest in network   management tools and
applications

>Demonstrated ability to work   efficiently, prioritize, focus and meet
deadlines

>Good   communications skills.

>Team player, able to work well with peers,   manager and other teams
>
>
>Preferred Skills
>
>Bachelors degree or higher in technical/scientific discipline.

>Experience with Linux or Solaris

>Experience with Windows Server 2003 / 2000

>Scripting experience (such as Perl, TCL, Expect or Python)

>Test Automation Experience

>Network certifications

>Experience administering or using a variety of large network
management systems (HP OpenView, CA Unicenter, Tivoli, Spectrum,
etc.)

>Experience in support or quality assurance roles

>Knowledge and   hands on use of major networking technologies (OSPF,
BGP, EIGRP, VLAN,   VPN...); broad exposure to real-world device
configurations
>
>Crystal Serrato
>Technical Recruiter | Volt Services Group
>11261 Willows Road NE, Suite 200
>Redmond, WA 98052
>P:   425-702-9000 F:  425-702-0415
>TF: 1-800-253-9605

From tim at consultix-inc.com  Fri Jan 14 23:45:08 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Fri Jan 14 23:45:30 2005
Subject: SPUG: Buggy shebang-line parsing
Message-ID: <20050115074508.GA7682@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

Fellow mongers,

I've found some serious bugs in recent Perl versions in the
parsing of non-trivial shebang lines, involving option clusters after
the first being disregarded if too many spaces precede the next ones,
and the -s option being ignored altogether, if it doesn't come first
in some cases.  For example:

	#! /usr/bin/perl -wlnaF'\t' -s 	# BAD!

	#! /usr/bin/perl -s -wlnaF'\t'	# GOOD!

I'd like to write a program to determine more precisely
which sequences do and don't work, before submitting my bug report.

But to automate that, I'd ideally like to
ask Perl itself which options it was using to run the
current script, rather than writing code to attempt
the exercising of all the requested options, and sense which
options were functioning correctly (or not).

In other words, I'm looking for something in Perl that's
analogous to the shell's $- variable, which reports the options
for the interpreter that are currently in effect.

Is there such a thing in Perl? If so, what/where/how, etc.

-Tim *---------------------------------------------------------------
-----------*
| Tim Maher, PhD (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com
| http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
*+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
+-+-+-+-+-*
|      Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux
|      People" | Classes: 2/14: Minimal Perl 2/15: Hashes &
|      Arrays 2/16-18: Int. Perl |
*----------------------------------------------------------------
----------*

From david.dyck at fluke.com  Sat Jan 15 09:10:29 2005
From: david.dyck at fluke.com (David Dyck)
Date: Sat Jan 15 09:10:23 2005
Subject: SPUG: Buggy shebang-line parsing
In-Reply-To: <20050115074508.GA7682@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20050115074508.GA7682@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0501150853560.958@dd.tc.fluke.com>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 at 23:45 -0800, Tim Maher <tim@consultix-inc.com> wrote:

> I've found some serious bugs in recent Perl versions in the
> parsing of non-trivial shebang lines, involving option clusters after
> the first being disregarded if too many spaces precede the next ones,
> and the -s option being ignored altogether, if it doesn't come first
> in some cases.  For example:
>
> 	#! /usr/bin/perl -wlnaF'\t' -s 	# BAD!
>
> 	#! /usr/bin/perl -s -wlnaF'\t'	# GOOD!
        123456789012345678901234567890

Tim

Have you eliminated the operating system interaction with the command line?
 (I see that you are close to 32 characters and perlrun has some warnings
  about it - see below)

Do you need the space between the #! and the interpreter name?

Does moving the flags past the 32-character have an effect?

I see you are trying to build a test program, but do you have
a few short ones that show a good and bad example?

  David



>From perldoc perlrun here are some concerns:

   Because historically some operating systems silently chopped off kernel
    interpretation of the #! line after 32 characters, some switches may be
    passed in on the command line, and some may not; you could even get a "-"
    without its letter, if you're not careful. You probably want to make sure
    that all your switches fall either before or after that 32-character
    boundary. Most switches don't actually care if they're processed
    redundantly, but getting a "-" instead of a complete switch could cause
    Perl to try to execute standard input instead of your program. And a
    partial -I switch could also cause odd results.

    Some switches do care if they are processed twice, for instance
    combinations of -l and -0. Either put all the switches after the
    32-character boundary (if applicable), or replace the use of -0digits by
    "BEGIN{ $/ = "\0digits"; }".
From tim at consultix-inc.com  Sat Jan 15 10:54:08 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Sat Jan 15 10:54:25 2005
Subject: SPUG: Buggy shebang-line parsing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0501150853560.958@dd.tc.fluke.com>
References: <20050115074508.GA7682@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.51.0501150853560.958@dd.tc.fluke.com>
Message-ID: <20050115185408.GA20324@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 09:10:29AM -0800, David Dyck wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 at 23:45 -0800, Tim Maher <tim@consultix-inc.com> wrote:
> 
> > I've found some serious bugs in recent Perl versions in the
> > parsing of non-trivial shebang lines, involving option clusters after
> > the first being disregarded if too many spaces precede the next ones,
> > and the -s option being ignored altogether, if it doesn't come first
> > in some cases.  For example:
> >
> > 	#! /usr/bin/perl -wlnaF'\t' -s 	# BAD!
> >
> > 	#! /usr/bin/perl -s -wlnaF'\t'	# GOOD!
>          123456789012345678901234567890
> 
> Tim
> 
> Have you eliminated the operating system interaction with the command line?
>  (I see that you are close to 32 characters and perlrun has some warnings
>   about it - see below)

I figure the above example is only 27 characters, and in any
case, reordering the arguments fixes the problem, without
changing the string length, which smells like a bug to me!

> >From perldoc perlrun here are some concerns:
>
>    Because historically some operating systems silently chopped
>    off kernel interpretation of the #! line after 32
>    characters, some switches may be passed in on the command
>    line, and some may not

I'm aware of that warning, but the (somewhat vague)
wording could mean that only some ancient systems would exhibit the
problem being described, and I'm using Solaris 9.0 and Linux. 8-}
In any case, I'm not hitting the the 32 character boundary, as
mentioned above.

> Do you need the space between the #! and the interpreter name?

I remember it being required on some old versions of UNIX I
used, and so I'm reluctant to prescribe leaving it out in my
book, for fear somebody will try to do that on a system that
won't tolerate it.

> Does moving the flags past the 32-character have an effect?

Not sure, but I know how to find out. 8-}

> I see you are trying to build a test program, but do you have a
> few short ones that show a good and bad example?
>
>   David

You can see my earlier (different) bug report in attachment #1,
and a demonstration of the bug described above in attachment #2
(By the way, the bug disappears if the -s option is not kept
separate from the others, and only occurs if -F is used; my
guess is that anything coming after -F is ignored -- so there
are some clues!)

Anyway David, thanks for your interest! As you know, many of the
examples in my upcoming book rely heavily on shebang lines being
parsed correctly, so I'm pretty keen on getting these issues
resolved (and it's been 6 months since I submitted the first bug
report (#30660), with no action, AFAIK).

-Tim
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
*+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-*
|      Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
| Classes:  2/14: Minimal Perl  2/15: Hashes & Arrays  2/16-18: Int. Perl  |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
-------------- next part --------------
>From tim@consultix-inc.com  Fri Jul  9 09:37:30 2004

This is a bug report for perl from tim@consultix-inc.com,
generated with the help of perlbug 1.34 running under perl v5.8.2.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
[Please enter your report here]

I've either found a bug in Perl, or there's an undocumented
"feature" that I've suddenly run into for the first time.
Either way, /I don't like it/! 8-{ 

In short, a parsing rule (or bug) seems to be operating that says
after two (or more) spaces are seen on the shebang line, no
additional options are recognized! So when one tries to use -s
for switch processing, and that switch is preceded by two spaces,
the result is that the -switch=whatever argument
is /retained/ on the command line, rather than used to set a
variable! When the -w option is in the ignored position, that
fails to enable warnings.

AFAIK, this is not documented behavior, and IMHO, it is not
/desirable/ behavior.

I've included sample programs and output below, and confirmed that
the same results are obtained with Perl versions 5.8.4 and 5.8.2.

-Tim Maher
tim@teachmeperl.com

PROGRAMS:

The _sw ending on a test program means the -s option is first,
and the -w second, and vice versa. The program invocation in each
case is "./scriptname -switch", which should set the $switch
variable in the script to 1. Note that there's nothing
switch-specific about this "two-space" bug -- that's just the
context in which I originally found it, and it demonstrates the
faulty behavior well, by (erroneously) leaving the -switch
argument in @ARGV, and triggering a "possible typo" warning
regarding $switch in that case.

The two_space* versions of the programs are expected to work like
the one_space ones, but they don't.

2004-07-05 12:31                   one_space_sw                   Page 1

#! /usr/bin/perl -s -w
$switch == 1;
warn "Arguments are: @ARGV";


2004-07-05 12:31                   one_space_ws                   Page 1

#! /usr/bin/perl -w -s
$switch == 1;
warn "Arguments are: @ARGV";


2004-07-05 12:32                  two_spaces_sw                   Page 1

#! /usr/bin/perl -s  -w
$switch == 1;
warn "Arguments are: @ARGV";


2004-07-05 12:32                  two_spaces_ws                   Page 1

#! /usr/bin/perl -w  -s
$switch == 1;
warn "Arguments are: @ARGV";


OUTPUT:

RUNNING 'one_space_sw':
Useless use of numeric eq (==) in void context at ./one_space_sw line 3.
Arguments are:  at ./one_space_sw line 5.

(That's the correct result; warnings enabled, and switch-argument processed)

RUNNING 'one_space_ws':
Useless use of numeric eq (==) in void context at ./one_space_ws line 3.
Arguments are:  at ./one_space_ws line 5.

(That's the correct result; warnings enabled, and switch-argument processed)

RUNNING 'two_spaces_sw':
Arguments are:  at ./two_spaces_sw line 5.

(That's the WRONG result; warnings DISabled;
	only switch-option recognized)

RUNNING 'two_spaces_ws':
Useless use of numeric eq (==) in void context at ./two_spaces_ws line 3.
Name "main::switch" used only once: possible typo at ./two_spaces_ws line 3.
Use of uninitialized value in numeric eq (==) at ./two_spaces_ws line 3.
Arguments are: -switch at ./two_spaces_ws line 5.

(That's the WRONG result; switch not processed;
	only warning option recognized)
 
==============================================================
| Tim Maher, Ph.D.                    tim(AT)TeachMePerl.com | 
| Seattle Perl Users Group        http://www.SeattlePerl.com |
| SPUG Wiki Site               http://Spugwiki.Perlocity.org |
==============================================================


[Please do not change anything below this line]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
---
Flags:
    category=core
    severity=medium
---
Site configuration information for perl v5.8.2:

Configured by root at Sat Nov 15 08:54:26 PST 2003.

Summary of my perl5 (revision 5.0 version 8 subversion 2) configuration:
  Platform:
    osname=linux, osvers=2.4.19-4gb, archname=i686-linux-thread-multi
    uname='linux jumpy 2.4.19-4gb #1 mon aug 4 23:38:42 utc 2003 i686 unknown '
    config_args='-Dusethreads'
    hint=recommended, useposix=true, d_sigaction=define
    usethreads=define use5005threads=undef useithreads=define usemultiplicity=define
    useperlio=define d_sfio=undef uselargefiles=define usesocks=undef
    use64bitint=undef use64bitall=undef uselongdouble=undef
    usemymalloc=n, bincompat5005=undef
  Compiler:
    cc='cc', ccflags ='-D_REENTRANT -D_GNU_SOURCE -DTHREADS_HAVE_PIDS -fno-strict-aliasing -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64',
    optimize='-O3',
    cppflags='-D_REENTRANT -D_GNU_SOURCE -DTHREADS_HAVE_PIDS -fno-strict-aliasing'
    ccversion='', gccversion='3.2', gccosandvers=''
    intsize=4, longsize=4, ptrsize=4, doublesize=8, byteorder=1234
    d_longlong=define, longlongsize=8, d_longdbl=define, longdblsize=12
    ivtype='long', ivsize=4, nvtype='double', nvsize=8, Off_t='off_t', lseeksize=8
    alignbytes=4, prototype=define
  Linker and Libraries:
    ld='cc', ldflags =' -L/usr/local/lib'
    libpth=/usr/local/lib /lib /usr/lib /usr/ucblib
    libs=-lnsl -ldl -lm -lcrypt -lutil -lpthread -lc
    perllibs=-lnsl -ldl -lm -lcrypt -lutil -lpthread -lc
    libc=, so=so, useshrplib=false, libperl=libperl.a
    gnulibc_version='2.2.5'
  Dynamic Linking:
    dlsrc=dl_dlopen.xs, dlext=so, d_dlsymun=undef, ccdlflags='-rdynamic'
    cccdlflags='-fpic', lddlflags='-shared -L/usr/local/lib'

Locally applied patches:
    

---
@INC for perl v5.8.2:
    /local/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2
    /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2
    /local/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0
    /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0
    /local/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0
    /local/perl5/site_perl/5.005
    /local/perl5/site_perl/i386-linux
    /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i586-linux-thread-multi
    /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.2/i686-linux-thread-multi
    /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.2
    /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2/i686-linux-thread-multi
    /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2
    /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl
    /local/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0 /local/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0 /local/perl5/site_perl/i386-linux /local/perl5/site_perl/5.005
    .

---
Environment for perl v5.8.2:
    HOME=/home/tim
    LANG=en_US
    LANGUAGE (unset)
    LC_COLLATE=POSIX
    LD_LIBRARY_PATH (unset)
    LOGDIR (unset)
    PATH=/home/tim/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/bin:/usr/games:/opt/gnome2/bin:/opt/gnome/bin:/opt/kde3/bin:/opt/kde2/bin:/usr/lib/java/bin:.:/usr/X11R6/bin:/opt/kde/bin:/local/timbin:/local/dtp:/home/tim/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/opt/kde/bin:/local/timbin:/local/dtp:/home/tim/bin
    PERL5LIB=:/local/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2:/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2:/local/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0:/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0:/local/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0:/local/perl5/site_perl/5.005:/local/perl5/site_perl/i386-linux:/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i586-linux-thread-multi
    PERL_BADLANG (unset)
    SHELL=/bin/bash

-------------- next part --------------
contix@jumpy:/tmp> date
Sat Jan 15 10:26:02 PST 2005

contix@jumpy:/tmp> nl -ba good
     1  #! /usr/bin/perl -s -wlnaF:
     2  print "Switch variable is: $switch";
     3  print "F1: $F[0], F2: $F[1]";

contix@jumpy:/tmp> date | ./good -switch=3
Switch variable is: 3
F1: Sat Jan 15 10, F2: 26

contix@jumpy:/tmp> nl -ba bad
     1  #! /usr/bin/perl -wlnaF: -s
     2  print "Switch variable is: $switch";
     3  print "F1: $F[0], F2: $F[1]";

contix@jumpy:/tmp> date | ./bad -switch=3
Name "main::switch" used only once: possible typo at ./bad line 2.
Can't open -switch=3: No such file or directory.

[The switch argument was incorrectly interpreted as a filename!]

contix@jumpy:/tmp> diff bad good
1c1
< #! /usr/bin/perl -wlnaF: -s
---
> #! /usr/bin/perl -s -wlnaF:
contix@jumpy:/tmp> 
From tim at consultix-inc.com  Sat Jan 15 14:20:45 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Sat Jan 15 14:20:59 2005
Subject: SPUG: Buggy shebang-line parsing
In-Reply-To: <20050115074508.GA7682@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20050115074508.GA7682@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <20050115222045.GA21652@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

Earlier today I posted a detailed reply to David's reply to my
message, but it has never appeared. Anyway, I've attached sample
programs that illustrate the problem to this message (one of
which has reported bug-id #30660). Enjoy!

-Tim
P.S. For the bug illustrated with -s , I'm getting the impression
that /any/ options supplied after the -F are ignored, and that
there's no problem if that option isn't present
==============================================================
| Tim Maher, Ph.D.                    tim(AT)TeachMePerl.com | 
| SPUG Leader Emeritus               spug(AT)TeachMePerl.com |
| Seattle Perl Users Group        http://www.SeattlePerl.com |
==============================================================
-------------- next part --------------
>From tim@consultix-inc.com  Fri Jul  9 09:37:30 2004

This is a bug report for perl from tim@consultix-inc.com,
generated with the help of perlbug 1.34 running under perl v5.8.2.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
[Please enter your report here]

I've either found a bug in Perl, or there's an undocumented
"feature" that I've suddenly run into for the first time.
Either way, /I don't like it/! 8-{ 

In short, a parsing rule (or bug) seems to be operating that says
after two (or more) spaces are seen on the shebang line, no
additional options are recognized! So when one tries to use -s
for switch processing, and that switch is preceded by two spaces,
the result is that the -switch=whatever argument
is /retained/ on the command line, rather than used to set a
variable! When the -w option is in the ignored position, that
fails to enable warnings.

AFAIK, this is not documented behavior, and IMHO, it is not
/desirable/ behavior.

I've included sample programs and output below, and confirmed that
the same results are obtained with Perl versions 5.8.4 and 5.8.2.

-Tim Maher
tim@teachmeperl.com

PROGRAMS:

The _sw ending on a test program means the -s option is first,
and the -w second, and vice versa. The program invocation in each
case is "./scriptname -switch", which should set the $switch
variable in the script to 1. Note that there's nothing
switch-specific about this "two-space" bug -- that's just the
context in which I originally found it, and it demonstrates the
faulty behavior well, by (erroneously) leaving the -switch
argument in @ARGV, and triggering a "possible typo" warning
regarding $switch in that case.

The two_space* versions of the programs are expected to work like
the one_space ones, but they don't.

2004-07-05 12:31                   one_space_sw                   Page 1

#! /usr/bin/perl -s -w
$switch == 1;
warn "Arguments are: @ARGV";


2004-07-05 12:31                   one_space_ws                   Page 1

#! /usr/bin/perl -w -s
$switch == 1;
warn "Arguments are: @ARGV";


2004-07-05 12:32                  two_spaces_sw                   Page 1

#! /usr/bin/perl -s  -w
$switch == 1;
warn "Arguments are: @ARGV";


2004-07-05 12:32                  two_spaces_ws                   Page 1

#! /usr/bin/perl -w  -s
$switch == 1;
warn "Arguments are: @ARGV";


OUTPUT:

RUNNING 'one_space_sw':
Useless use of numeric eq (==) in void context at ./one_space_sw line 3.
Arguments are:  at ./one_space_sw line 5.

(That's the correct result; warnings enabled, and switch-argument processed)

RUNNING 'one_space_ws':
Useless use of numeric eq (==) in void context at ./one_space_ws line 3.
Arguments are:  at ./one_space_ws line 5.

(That's the correct result; warnings enabled, and switch-argument processed)

RUNNING 'two_spaces_sw':
Arguments are:  at ./two_spaces_sw line 5.

(That's the WRONG result; warnings DISabled;
	only switch-option recognized)

RUNNING 'two_spaces_ws':
Useless use of numeric eq (==) in void context at ./two_spaces_ws line 3.
Name "main::switch" used only once: possible typo at ./two_spaces_ws line 3.
Use of uninitialized value in numeric eq (==) at ./two_spaces_ws line 3.
Arguments are: -switch at ./two_spaces_ws line 5.

(That's the WRONG result; switch not processed;
	only warning option recognized)
 
==============================================================
| Tim Maher, Ph.D.                    tim(AT)TeachMePerl.com | 
| Seattle Perl Users Group        http://www.SeattlePerl.com |
| SPUG Wiki Site               http://Spugwiki.Perlocity.org |
==============================================================


[Please do not change anything below this line]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
---
Flags:
    category=core
    severity=medium
---
Site configuration information for perl v5.8.2:

Configured by root at Sat Nov 15 08:54:26 PST 2003.

Summary of my perl5 (revision 5.0 version 8 subversion 2) configuration:
  Platform:
    osname=linux, osvers=2.4.19-4gb, archname=i686-linux-thread-multi
    uname='linux jumpy 2.4.19-4gb #1 mon aug 4 23:38:42 utc 2003 i686 unknown '
    config_args='-Dusethreads'
    hint=recommended, useposix=true, d_sigaction=define
    usethreads=define use5005threads=undef useithreads=define usemultiplicity=define
    useperlio=define d_sfio=undef uselargefiles=define usesocks=undef
    use64bitint=undef use64bitall=undef uselongdouble=undef
    usemymalloc=n, bincompat5005=undef
  Compiler:
    cc='cc', ccflags ='-D_REENTRANT -D_GNU_SOURCE -DTHREADS_HAVE_PIDS -fno-strict-aliasing -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64',
    optimize='-O3',
    cppflags='-D_REENTRANT -D_GNU_SOURCE -DTHREADS_HAVE_PIDS -fno-strict-aliasing'
    ccversion='', gccversion='3.2', gccosandvers=''
    intsize=4, longsize=4, ptrsize=4, doublesize=8, byteorder=1234
    d_longlong=define, longlongsize=8, d_longdbl=define, longdblsize=12
    ivtype='long', ivsize=4, nvtype='double', nvsize=8, Off_t='off_t', lseeksize=8
    alignbytes=4, prototype=define
  Linker and Libraries:
    ld='cc', ldflags =' -L/usr/local/lib'
    libpth=/usr/local/lib /lib /usr/lib /usr/ucblib
    libs=-lnsl -ldl -lm -lcrypt -lutil -lpthread -lc
    perllibs=-lnsl -ldl -lm -lcrypt -lutil -lpthread -lc
    libc=, so=so, useshrplib=false, libperl=libperl.a
    gnulibc_version='2.2.5'
  Dynamic Linking:
    dlsrc=dl_dlopen.xs, dlext=so, d_dlsymun=undef, ccdlflags='-rdynamic'
    cccdlflags='-fpic', lddlflags='-shared -L/usr/local/lib'

Locally applied patches:
    

---
@INC for perl v5.8.2:
    /local/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2
    /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2
    /local/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0
    /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0
    /local/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0
    /local/perl5/site_perl/5.005
    /local/perl5/site_perl/i386-linux
    /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i586-linux-thread-multi
    /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.2/i686-linux-thread-multi
    /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.2
    /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2/i686-linux-thread-multi
    /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2
    /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl
    /local/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0 /local/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0 /local/perl5/site_perl/i386-linux /local/perl5/site_perl/5.005
    .

---
Environment for perl v5.8.2:
    HOME=/home/tim
    LANG=en_US
    LANGUAGE (unset)
    LC_COLLATE=POSIX
    LD_LIBRARY_PATH (unset)
    LOGDIR (unset)
    PATH=/home/tim/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/bin:/usr/games:/opt/gnome2/bin:/opt/gnome/bin:/opt/kde3/bin:/opt/kde2/bin:/usr/lib/java/bin:.:/usr/X11R6/bin:/opt/kde/bin:/local/timbin:/local/dtp:/home/tim/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/opt/kde/bin:/local/timbin:/local/dtp:/home/tim/bin
    PERL5LIB=:/local/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2:/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.2:/local/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0:/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0:/local/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0:/local/perl5/site_perl/5.005:/local/perl5/site_perl/i386-linux:/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i586-linux-thread-multi
    PERL_BADLANG (unset)
    SHELL=/bin/bash

-------------- next part --------------
contix@jumpy:/tmp> date
Sat Jan 15 10:26:02 PST 2005

contix@jumpy:/tmp> nl -ba good
     1  #! /usr/bin/perl -s -wlnaF:
     2  print "Switch variable is: $switch";
     3  print "F1: $F[0], F2: $F[1]";

contix@jumpy:/tmp> date | ./good -switch=3
Switch variable is: 3
F1: Sat Jan 15 10, F2: 26

contix@jumpy:/tmp> nl -ba bad
     1  #! /usr/bin/perl -wlnaF: -s
     2  print "Switch variable is: $switch";
     3  print "F1: $F[0], F2: $F[1]";

contix@jumpy:/tmp> date | ./bad -switch=3
Name "main::switch" used only once: possible typo at ./bad line 2.
Can't open -switch=3: No such file or directory.

[The switch argument was incorrectly interpreted as a filename!]

contix@jumpy:/tmp> diff bad good
1c1
< #! /usr/bin/perl -wlnaF: -s
---
> #! /usr/bin/perl -s -wlnaF:
contix@jumpy:/tmp> 
From david.dyck at fluke.com  Sat Jan 15 20:35:11 2005
From: david.dyck at fluke.com (David Dyck)
Date: Sat Jan 15 20:35:22 2005
Subject: SPUG: Buggy shebang-line parsing
In-Reply-To: <20050115222045.GA21652@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20050115074508.GA7682@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
	<20050115222045.GA21652@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0501152006320.10243@dd.tc.fluke.com>

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 at 14:20 -0800, Tim Maher <tim@consultix-inc.com> wrote:

> Earlier today I posted a detailed reply to David's reply to my
> message, but it has never appeared. Anyway, I've attached sample
> programs that illustrate the problem to this message (one of
> which has reported bug-id #30660). Enjoy!

http://rt.perl.org/rt3/index.html?q=30660


At first I thought that one vs. two spaces shouldn't make a difference,
till I saw in after the -s myself.  I think the problem has to do
with the way perl processes the command line on the script itself.

I started by using strace (on linux) to look at what command line
arguments are being passed to perl, then I fired up gdb
(I saw where the loop that processed the #!perl line breaks
out of the loop when it sees the space, but I haven't thought
of a fix for it yet)

For a while I was confused because I thought the -s would trigger
further -arguments "on the #! line" to become switches to the
program, but now I see that the -s is trying to say to get the switches
from the "real" command line arguments.

In the past, submitted perl5 bugs would make it to the perl5-porters
mailing list, but I didn't see your's their yet.

  David

dd:bugs$ cat 2swx
#! /usr/bin/perl -s  -w
$switch == 1;
warn "Arguments are: @ARGV";
warn "saw -w\n"  if defined $w;
warn "saw -foo\n"  if defined $foo;
while (<>) { print }


dd:bugs$ ./2swx -w -foo bar
Arguments are: bar at ./2swx line 3.
saw -w
saw -foo
data in bar
dd:bugs$ perl ./2swx -w -foo bar
Arguments are: bar at ./2swx line 3.
saw -w
saw -foo
data in bar
From sthoenna at efn.org  Sat Jan 15 22:47:50 2005
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Sat Jan 15 22:48:03 2005
Subject: SPUG: Buggy shebang-line parsing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0501152006320.10243@dd.tc.fluke.com>
References: <20050115074508.GA7682@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
	<20050115222045.GA21652@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.51.0501152006320.10243@dd.tc.fluke.com>
Message-ID: <20050116064750.GA248@efn.org>

On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 08:35:11PM -0800, David Dyck wrote:
> 
> In the past, submitted perl5 bugs would make it to the perl5-porters
> mailing list, but I didn't see your's their yet.

I did see it; looked at it briefly and gave up.
It was 6 months ago.
From tim at consultix-inc.com  Sun Jan 16 10:22:38 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Sun Jan 16 10:23:21 2005
Subject: SPUG: Buggy shebang-line parsing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0501152006320.10243@dd.tc.fluke.com>
References: <20050115074508.GA7682@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
	<20050115222045.GA21652@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.51.0501152006320.10243@dd.tc.fluke.com>
Message-ID: <20050116182238.GA30437@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 08:35:11PM -0800, David Dyck wrote:
> 
> For a while I was confused because I thought the -s would trigger
> further -arguments "on the #! line" to become switches to the
> program, but now I see that the -s is trying to say to get the switches
> from the "real" command line arguments.
> 
>   David
> 
> dd:bugs$ cat 2swx
> #! /usr/bin/perl -s  -w
> $switch == 1;
> warn "Arguments are: @ARGV";
> warn "saw -w\n"  if defined $w;
> warn "saw -foo\n"  if defined $foo;
> while (<>) { print }
> 
> dd:bugs$ ./2swx -w -foo bar
> Arguments are: bar at ./2swx line 3.
> saw -w
> saw -foo
> data in bar

You don't have a test for the -w option being recognized by
Perl as enabling warnings there, so you're missing the bug demo.

The bug I reported in 7/04 was that the -w on the shebang line with
two spaces before it wouldn't get recognized as a request for enabling
warnings, which can be demonstrated (using 5.8.0 on this box) like so:

tim$ cat no_w	# 2 spaces before -w
#! /usr/bin/perl -s  -w
foo;	# should trigger a warning
print "\$switch is: $switch\n"

tim$ no_w -switch=here	# -s recognized, but not -w
$switch is: here
tim$

This time the -s, which has the 2 spaces before it, is overlooked:

tim$ cat no_s
#! /usr/bin/perl -w  -s
foo;	# should trigger a warning
print "\$switch is: $switch\n"

tim$ no_s -switch=here	# -w recognized, but not -s
Unquoted string "foo" may clash with future reserved word at /tmp/no_s line 2.
Useless use of a constant in void context at /tmp/no_s line 2.
Name "main::switch" used only once: possible typo at /tmp/no_s line 3.
Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /tmp/no_s line 3.
$switch is: 
tim$

-- 
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
*+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-*
|      Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
| Classes:  2/14: Minimal Perl  2/15: Hashes & Arrays  2/16-18: Int. Perl  |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From cjcollier at colliertech.org  Sun Jan 16 18:12:19 2005
From: cjcollier at colliertech.org (C.J. Collier)
Date: Sun Jan 16 18:12:40 2005
Subject: SPUG: add a path to @INC
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501070910340.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501070910340.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Message-ID: <3711E08C-682D-11D9-A599-000A95CA2B00@colliertech.org>

Note that if you want to use C<@INC> to C<use()> modules, I believe you 
need to put the C<use lib '...';> in a C<BEGIN { ... }> block, thus:

=pod

   BEGIN {
   	use lib '/foo/bar/baz';
   }

use Wally;

=cut

I could be wrong, though.  Whee.


On Jan 7, 2005, at 9:13 AM, Andrew Sweger wrote:

> On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Sachin Chaturvedi wrote:
>
>> i want to modify my @INC and want to add the path /pkg/perl5plus/lib
>> in that . can i get any help in this issue.
>
> In a Perl script or module:
>
>     use lib '/pkg/perl5plus/lib';
>
> For a one-liner:
>
>     perl -I/pkg/perl5plus/lib -e '...'
>
> For more information:
>
>     perldoc lib
>
> -- 
> Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
>                                 things can go wrong at once.
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>

From andrew at sweger.net  Sun Jan 16 18:53:42 2005
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Sun Jan 16 18:53:52 2005
Subject: SPUG: add a path to @INC
In-Reply-To: <3711E08C-682D-11D9-A599-000A95CA2B00@colliertech.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501161841380.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005, C.J.Collier wrote:

> Note that if you want to use C<@INC> to C<use()> modules, I believe you 
> need to put the C<use lib '...';> in a C<BEGIN { ... }> block, thus:

PODcity!

I think you're wrong. But I'll have to write a test now to double-check
myself...

File: ./ascript.pl
--------------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/lib/perl

use warnings;
use strict;
use lib './mylib';
BEGIN {
    print "About to load Ned...\n";
    use Ned;
    print "Done loading Ned.\n";
}

my $foo = new Ned;
$foo->hello;
--------------------------------------------------------------

File: ./mylib/Ned.pm
--------------------------------------------------------------
package Ned;
use warnings;
use strict;

sub new {
    my $foo = {};
    return bless $foo; # Hey! I wouldn't do this for real.
}

sub hello {
    my $thing = shift;
    print "Hello\n";
}

print "Done loading module Ned. Thank you. Come again.\n";
return 1;
--------------------------------------------------------------

% perl ./ascript.pl
Done loading module Ned. Thank you. Come again.
About to load Ned...
Done loading Ned.
Hello
%

Note that all of the 'use' clauses are parsed and loaded even the one
*inside* the BEGIN block. Thus, there's no point putting bare use clauses
inside BEGIN blocks. Usually one uses a require in a BEGIN block (in a
module) to conditionally load a module (as the lib pragma does to load
File::Spec on MacOS). As long as the lib pragma falls before the 'use'
"call" loading your module in a directory located via the lib pragma, it
should work.

> I could be wrong, though.  Whee.

See? It happens to the best people too. Not just me.

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.

From cjcollier at colliertech.org  Mon Jan 17 09:34:29 2005
From: cjcollier at colliertech.org (CJ Collier)
Date: Mon Jan 17 09:35:30 2005
Subject: SPUG: PacMed ready for us
Message-ID: <1105983269.29193.8.camel@cjcoll.desktop.amazon.com>

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you all know that the PacMed A/V room is ready for
us.  We'll have outside network connectivity, so feel free to bring your
laptops.  Andrew, if you bring your wireless toy, I'll be happy to hook
up to it.

Cheers,

C.J.


From sachin_chat at coolgoose.com  Tue Jan 18 00:16:24 2005
From: sachin_chat at coolgoose.com (Sachin Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue Jan 18 00:36:36 2005
Subject: SPUG: to change a file in different folders
Message-ID: <1106037384.1566489662@as03.coolgoose.com>

i want to modify a file i a file, say output.txt whaich is present in different folders.
for eg...

there is a line in output.txt 
source ../setext.cmd 
and i want to change it to  
source $testfolder/../setext.cmd.

i can do from comand line as perl -pi -e 's/old/new/g' output.txt 

but since this is in different folders i want to change all the output.txt in one shot calling script which automatically changes 
the folder one by one calls the above command and work is done
From sthoenna at efn.org  Tue Jan 18 02:53:14 2005
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Tue Jan 18 02:53:23 2005
Subject: SPUG: to change a file in different folders
In-Reply-To: <1106037384.1566489662@as03.coolgoose.com>
References: <1106037384.1566489662@as03.coolgoose.com>
Message-ID: <20050118105314.GB324@efn.org>

On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 02:06:24PM +0550, Sachin Chaturvedi wrote:
> i want to modify a file i a file, say output.txt whaich is present in different folders.
> for eg...
> 
> there is a line in output.txt 
> source ../setext.cmd 
> and i want to change it to  
> source $testfolder/../setext.cmd.
> 
> i can do from comand line as perl -pi -e 's/old/new/g' output.txt 
> 
> but since this is in different folders i want to change all the output.txt in one shot calling script which automatically changes 
> the folder one by one calls the above command and work is done

You can give more than one filename in place of output.txt, and they can
include the folder name, so you could do:

perl -pi -e 's/old/new/g' foo/output.txt bar/baz/output.txt

or:

perl -pi -e 's/old/new/g' */output.txt

or:

find . -name output.txt | xargs perl -pi -e's/old/new/g'
From sachin_chat at coolgoose.com  Tue Jan 18 03:18:35 2005
From: sachin_chat at coolgoose.com (Sachin Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue Jan 18 03:38:46 2005
Subject: SPUG: how to add text at start of a already existing file
Message-ID: <1106048315.4292403023@as03.coolgoose.com>

hi i want to add text at very start of already existing file.
i have tried this code but it is adding only at end

open(FH,">>" . $file)or die " can not open \n";
seek FH,0,0 ;
print FH $msg . "\n" ;
close FH or die " i can not close \n";



i had tried sysopen(FH,$file,O_APPEND|O_WRONLY)
sysseek FH,0,0
but it is doing same as said above


can any body tell me gow to add text in beginning of file.
 
From sthoenna at efn.org  Tue Jan 18 04:20:17 2005
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Tue Jan 18 04:20:38 2005
Subject: SPUG: how to add text at start of a already existing file
In-Reply-To: <1106048315.4292403023@as03.coolgoose.com>
References: <1106048315.4292403023@as03.coolgoose.com>
Message-ID: <20050118121951.GA4092@efn.org>

On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 05:08:35PM +0550, Sachin Chaturvedi wrote:
> hi i want to add text at very start of already existing file.
> i have tried this code but it is adding only at end
> 
> open(FH,">>" . $file)or die " can not open \n";
> seek FH,0,0 ;
> print FH $msg . "\n" ;
> close FH or die " i can not close \n";
> 
> 
> 
> i had tried sysopen(FH,$file,O_APPEND|O_WRONLY)
> sysseek FH,0,0
> but it is doing same as said above

Any time you use O_APPEND or >>, anything you write will be put
at the end of the file regardless of what your position in the
file was.

You use open(FH,"+< $file") to open an existing file for reading
and writing.  Then you need to read in the entire current content
of the file, because when you write your $msg out, it will overwrite
what's there already.  After printing $msg, then print the original
file data.  So:

open(FH,"+< $file") or die "could not open: $!\n";
seek FH, 0, 0;
my $content = do { local $/; <FH> }; # read in whole file
seek FH, 0, 0;
print FH $msg, $content;
close FH or die "could not close: $!\n";

From sachin_chat at coolgoose.com  Tue Jan 18 05:15:35 2005
From: sachin_chat at coolgoose.com (Sachin Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue Jan 18 05:35:47 2005
Subject: SPUG: replacing a string occurence in file with other string
Message-ID: <1106055335.1131097261@as03.coolgoose.com>

hi , i am having a text file , say output.txt. in that i am having variour occurences of strings with same extn like file1.data , 
file2.data etc. i want to replace all occurences of files names with .data extn with $testname/file1.data , $testname/file2.data 
etc . 
From bri at ifokr.org  Tue Jan 18 06:59:07 2005
From: bri at ifokr.org (Brian Hatch)
Date: Tue Jan 18 06:59:17 2005
Subject: SPUG: how to add text at start of a already existing file
In-Reply-To: <20050118121951.GA4092@efn.org>
References: <1106048315.4292403023@as03.coolgoose.com>
	<20050118121951.GA4092@efn.org>
Message-ID: <20050118145907.GA18283@ifokr.org>



> > hi i want to add text at very start of already existing file.
> > i have tried this code but it is adding only at end
...
> 
> You use open(FH,"+< $file") to open an existing file for reading
> and writing.  Then you need to read in the entire current content
> of the file, because when you write your $msg out, it will overwrite
> what's there already.  After printing $msg, then print the original
> file data.  So:
> 
> open(FH,"+< $file") or die "could not open: $!\n";
> seek FH, 0, 0;
> my $content = do { local $/; <FH> }; # read in whole file
> seek FH, 0, 0;
> print FH $msg, $content;
> close FH or die "could not close: $!\n";

How 'bout

	$ cat unshift_head
	#!/usr/bin/perl -p -i
	BEGIN { $msg = "Stuff I want to add.\n"}

	print $msg if $. == 1;

And then to run it

	$ unshift_head filename

Perl writes the rest because of the '-p' and '-i' switches.


-- 
Brian Hatch                  Those who live by
   Systems and                the sword, die by
   Security Engineer          the arrow.
http://www.ifokr.org/bri/

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From haircut at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 08:44:35 2005
From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen)
Date: Tue Jan 18 08:44:48 2005
Subject: SPUG: how to add text at start of a already existing file
In-Reply-To: <1106048315.4292403023@as03.coolgoose.com>
References: <1106048315.4292403023@as03.coolgoose.com>
Message-ID: <9ebd6511050118084422897ec3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:08:35 +0550, Sachin Chaturvedi
<sachin_chat@coolgoose.com> wrote:
> hi i want to add text at very start of already existing file.
> i have tried this code but it is adding only at end
[...]

use IO::All;
my $contents < io('file.txt');
"At start\n" . $contents > io('file.txt');

IO::All could potentially optimize this "prepending". Hmm, a
->prepend() method might be a welcome addition to IO::All.

-- 
Adam Monsen <adamm@wazamatta.com>
http://adammonsen.com/
From tim at consultix-inc.com  Tue Jan 18 10:21:03 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Tue Jan 18 10:21:36 2005
Subject: SPUG: how to add text at start of a already existing file
In-Reply-To: <20050118145907.GA18283@ifokr.org>
References: <1106048315.4292403023@as03.coolgoose.com>
	<20050118121951.GA4092@efn.org> <20050118145907.GA18283@ifokr.org>
Message-ID: <20050118182103.GA5805@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 06:59:07AM -0800, Brian Hatch wrote:
> 
> > > hi i want to add text at very start of already existing file.
> > > i have tried this code but it is adding only at end
> 
> 	$ cat unshift_head
> 	#!/usr/bin/perl -p -i
> 	BEGIN { $msg = "Stuff I want to add.\n"}
> 
> 	print $msg if $. == 1;
> 
> And then to run it
> 
> 	$ unshift_head filename
> 
> Perl writes the rest because of the '-p' and '-i' switches.
> Brian Hatch                  Those who live by

I endorse Brian's solution as the most simple and practical,
but I think a better name for it would be "prepend2file".
And I'd also add the following statement to the BEGIN block, in
order to get a different file extension on the backup file on each
run -- that prevents you from trashing the original backup if you
run the script twice:

$^I=".$$";	# Use PID for uniqueness

What the hell, why not add the -s to the shebang line too, and also
-w for extra brownie points, and then supply the message string on the
command line:

 	$ prepend2file -msg='whatever' filename

For those who like this style of programming, I can recommend a
nice upcoming book with tons of examples of this sort 8-}

-Tim
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
*+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-*
|      Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
| Classes:  2/14: Minimal Perl  2/15: Hashes & Arrays  2/16-18: Int. Perl  |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Tue Jan 18 12:59:28 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Tue Jan 18 12:59:38 2005
Subject: SPUG: Getting to the heart of Perl
In-Reply-To: <20050118182103.GA5805@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <1106048315.4292403023@as03.coolgoose.com>
	<20050118121951.GA4092@efn.org> <20050118145907.GA18283@ifokr.org>
	<20050118182103.GA5805@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050118125518.0267b3f0@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

At 10:21 AM 1/18/2005, Tim Maher wrote:


>For those who like this style of programming, I can recommend a
>nice upcoming book with tons of examples of this sort 8-}



>*+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-*
>|      Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
>| Classes:  2/14: Minimal Perl  2/15: Hashes & Arrays  2/16-18: Int. Perl  |
>*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
>    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/


Along the lines of "you just can't make these things up, you just have to 
keep your eyes open"...

How appropriate is it that Tim is teaching Minimal Perl on Valentines' 
day?????   :-)



Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net

From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Tue Jan 18 13:12:36 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Tue Jan 18 13:12:42 2005
Subject: SPUG: Ride to meeting from Ballard
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501120738180.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya. net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501120738180.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050118130604.0263c4e0@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

SPUGsters,

Can I ride with you to the meeting tonight?  I'm car-less tonight, and it's 
a 1 hr bus ride.  If you're going for Pho before the meeting, mo bettah.

I live in Ballard, but could easily bus to Freemont, or Magnolia to meet you.

Thanks,
Michael Wolf
206-782-8377


Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net

From tim at consultix-inc.com  Tue Jan 18 17:14:39 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Tue Jan 18 17:15:02 2005
Subject: SPUG: Doc. bug on glob() in 3rd ed. Camel
Message-ID: <20050119011439.GA22778@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>


The 3rd ed. Camel, p. 727 on "glob" says [^abc] complements the
list (as in C-shell), but it is really ! that does that, as in
Bourne/Korn/Bash shells. And this documentation bug is not listed at
O'Reilly's errata page for this book.

There's a demonstration below; any comments/insights/disproofs?

-Tim

$ ls 
!.!  ^.^  a.a  b.b  o.o

$ perl -wle '$,="\n"; print <*.*>'
!.!
^.^
a.a
b.b
o.o

# 3rd ed. Camel p.727 says circumflex is negater -- NOT!

$ perl -wle '$,="\n"; print <*.[^oa]>'
^.^
a.a
o.o

# It's really "!" that's the negater:

$ perl -wle '$,="\n"; print <*.[!oa]>'
!.!
^.^
b.b

$

Tested on Suse Linux 8.1 with Perl 5.8.0, and SunOs 9.0, with Perl 5.8.5,
issuing Perl commands from both C-shell and Bash shell.  All results same
as shown above.  I rest my case! 8-}

-- 
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
*+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-*
|      Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
| Classes:  2/14: Minimal Perl  2/15: Hashes & Arrays  2/16-18: Int. Perl  |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From tim at consultix-inc.com  Tue Jan 18 18:55:35 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Tue Jan 18 18:55:46 2005
Subject: SPUG: Doc. bug on glob() in 3rd ed. Camel
In-Reply-To: <20050119011439.GA22778@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20050119011439.GA22778@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <20050119025535.GB28020@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 05:14:39PM -0800, Tim Maher wrote:
> 
> The 3rd ed. Camel, p. 727 on "glob" says [^abc] complements the
> list (as in C-shell), but it is really ! that does that, as in
> Bourne/Korn/Bash shells. And this documentation bug is not listed at
> O'Reilly's errata page for this book.

While I'm doing last-minute research for /my/ book, I've got to learn
to stop believing what I'm reading in /other/ books! 

As a case in point, my 3rd edition Camel (7/00) was probably
describing the behavior of Perl v5.6.0, and accurately representing
the behavior of glob() at that time.

However, it seems that File::Glob (which glob() calls) started
using bsd_glob() instead of the old Csh-based code some time
after the Camel's publication, which accounts for the mismatch
between the Camel's pronouncements and the reality of the current
state of Perl.

So I retract my complaint about the Camel, and re-allocate it to
the on-line docs for the Perl versions I tested (5.8.0,
5.8.5). In each, "perldoc -f glob" says csh-style behavior is
what glob gives you, which is incorrect at least in regard
to the "!" vs "^" character-class complementing character
(Perl uses the non-C-sh ! now, rather than the Csh's ^).

We can't blame a book for getting out of date, but we can
certainly hope that the on-line documentation shipped with Perl
itself will be in sync with the software.

I'll file a bug report.

-Tim
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
*+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-*
|      Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
| Classes:  2/14: Minimal Perl  2/15: Hashes & Arrays  2/16-18: Int. Perl  |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From andrew at sweger.net  Tue Jan 18 20:27:57 2005
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Tue Jan 18 20:28:07 2005
Subject: SPUG: The SPUG Report, 18 January 2005
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501181947270.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

The year is off with a bang. Trey Harris' Commands Guarded[1] module will
forever change the way I write so-called one-off scripts for system
administration and just about everything else that seems to come back to
haunt me. I've already built a Debian package for version 0.01. Let me
know if you need a copy. Trey says the module documentation[1] essentially
covers the presentation in prose form. Pretty sweet for 200 lines or so of
code.

Looks like about 18 people showed up for the meeting tonight.

SPUG is now the largest Perl group represented on Meetup.com[2] with 46
members. Looks like Meetup.com is a great way to manage meetings. 15
people RSVP'd for tonight's meeting (yes or maybe). Thanks for using it.

I'm sure I speak for everyone at tonight's meeting in giving our thanks to
Trey for showing us that making something better can be easy, painless,
and smart. Danke!

[1] - http://search.cpan.org/~trey/Commands-Guarded-0.01/Guarded.pm
[2] - http://perl.meetup.com/86/

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.



From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Thu Jan 20 11:38:02 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Thu Jan 20 11:39:11 2005
Subject: SPUG: Cool power-of-2 trick
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120111644.02745600@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

While reading through the perl-quiz-of-the-week, I noticed this neat test 
to find if a number is a power of 2.  Originally, I didn't even believe it 
worked so I wrote a little program to test it.  The program helped me 
figure out that it does, in deed, work, and *how* it works.  If a number is 
a pure powere of 2, it only has one bit set.  If you subtract 1 from it you 
have to borrow from that bit, effectively clearing it and setting all the 
bits below it.  If you then bitwise-and the two numbers, you're guaranteed 
to come up with zero.  You can't get zero otherwise.  Coooool.


foreach $n (1 .. 2<<8) {
     if (( $n & ($n-1)) == 0){
         printf "%4d %10b %10b %10.10b\n" => $n, $n, $n-1, $n&($n-1);
     }
}
  $n          $n        $n   $n & $n-1
decimal  binary    binary      binary
    1          1          0 0000000000
    2         10          1 0000000000
    4        100         11 0000000000
    8       1000        111 0000000000
   16      10000       1111 0000000000
   32     100000      11111 0000000000
   64    1000000     111111 0000000000
  128   10000000    1111111 0000000000
  256  100000000   11111111 0000000000
  512 1000000000  111111111 0000000000



Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net
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From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Thu Jan 20 11:49:55 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Thu Jan 20 11:50:11 2005
Subject: SPUG: OSCON 2005 Call for proposals due by 2/13
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120114930.024668a0@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>


http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2005/create/e_sess


Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net

From bri at ifokr.org  Thu Jan 20 12:29:53 2005
From: bri at ifokr.org (Brian Hatch)
Date: Thu Jan 20 12:30:04 2005
Subject: SPUG: Cool power-of-2 trick
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120111644.02745600@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120111644.02745600@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <20050120202953.GD18283@ifokr.org>



> While reading through the perl-quiz-of-the-week, I noticed this neat test 
> to find if a number is a power of 2.  Originally, I didn't even believe it 
> worked so I wrote a little program to test it.  The program helped me 
> figure out that it does, in deed, work, and *how* it works.  If a number is 
> a pure powere of 2, it only has one bit set.
...


This only works on systems where data is stored in binary.  If you're on
a machine that uses ternary storage units (-1 0 +1) then it does not
work for powers of two, but it does work for powers of three.

Of course I'm still waiting for the completely optimal system which uses
storage units of 'e' instead of rounding to 3 for simplicity.



-- 
Brian Hatch                  "Would you like to take
   Systems and                a shower with the food?"
   Security Engineer         -- Bree
http://www.ifokr.org/bri/

Every message PGP signed
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From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Thu Jan 20 13:30:28 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Thu Jan 20 13:30:51 2005
Subject: SPUG: Cool power-of-2 trick
In-Reply-To: <20050120202953.GD18283@ifokr.org>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120111644.02745600@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
	<20050120202953.GD18283@ifokr.org>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120132554.0278c030@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

At 12:29 PM 1/20/2005, Brian Hatch wrote:


> > While reading through the perl-quiz-of-the-week, I noticed this neat test
> > to find if a number is a power of 2.  Originally, I didn't even believe it
> > worked so I wrote a little program to test it.  The program helped me
> > figure out that it does, in deed, work, and *how* it works.  If a 
> number is
> > a pure powere of 2, it only has one bit set.
>...
>
>
>This only works on systems where data is stored in binary.  If you're on
>a machine that uses ternary storage units (-1 0 +1) then it does not
>work for powers of two, but it does work for powers of three.
>
>Of course I'm still waiting for the completely optimal system which uses
>storage units of 'e' instead of rounding to 3 for simplicity.


In a grad school EE/CS class, the professor did a proof on the board that 
the best computer would, in fact, have each storage unit contain e (approx 
2.718281828....?) states.  Since that's closer to 3 than 2, it would be 
better to have a trinary system instead of a binary system.  And yes, it 
was hard for him to continually say trits (instead of bits) without 
scrambling it up!

   :-) -8

To muck with an old punch line -- You silly Rabbi, trits are for kids!!!!



Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net

From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Thu Jan 20 12:02:28 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Thu Jan 20 13:31:53 2005
Subject: SPUG: SPUG presentation
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120115141.027c1908@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

Trey,

Thanks for one of the best presentations I've seen at SPUG.  You did a 
great job of covering newbies, intermediates, and advanced listeners, 
making sure that each group got something, and that most groups got much 
more.  A good set of perspectives, too --  academic intro, user-centered 
middle, behind-the-covers closing.  And what a great new (OK, old) way to 
think and program.  It really opened a new world for me.  Most of 
programming is held up by a framework of the control structures that we're 
familiar with.  This, being a different control structure, lets us think 
differently.  It reminds me very much of a quote card that I hand out in 
many of the programming language classes I teach:
Language shapes the way we think,
and determines what we can think about.
   -- B. L. Whorf
     -- as quoted in the Preface to the First Edition of
        "The C++ Programming Language", Bjarne Stroustrup
By adding something to the language, you've added something different to 
think about.

Thanks again for a GREAT presentation,
Michael Wolf


Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net
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From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Thu Jan 20 14:08:05 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Thu Jan 20 14:08:16 2005
Subject: SPUG: Cool power-of-2 trick
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120132554.0278c030@ipostoffice.worldnet.att .net>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120111644.02745600@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
	<20050120202953.GD18283@ifokr.org>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20050120132554.0278c030@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120135951.027ad828@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

At 01:30 PM 1/20/2005, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>At 12:29 PM 1/20/2005, Brian Hatch wrote:
>
>
>> > While reading through the perl-quiz-of-the-week, I noticed this neat test
>> > to find if a number is a power of 2.  Originally, I didn't even 
>> believe it
>> > worked so I wrote a little program to test it.  The program helped me
>> > figure out that it does, in deed, work, and *how* it works.  If a 
>> number is
>> > a pure powere of 2, it only has one bit set.
>>...
>>
>>
>>This only works on systems where data is stored in binary.  If you're on
>>a machine that uses ternary storage units (-1 0 +1) then it does not
>>work for powers of two, but it does work for powers of three.


What does a trinary trit-wise &-operator act like?  What's the boolean(?) 
value of each of the trit states?  What's the semantic meaning of the 
lowest-level '&' operator in that context?

Here's a binary table for the results of the &-operator:

  & | 0  1
  --+-----
  0 | 0  0
  1 | 0  1

Analagous to this boolean truth table

  & | F  T
  --+-----
  F | F  F
  T | F  T


What's the trinary logic table?

  & | -1  0  1
  --+---------
-1 |  x  x  x
  0 |  x  x  x
  1 |  x  x  x

What's Boole have to say about its analog?

  & | -1  0  1
  --+---------
-1 |  x  x  x
  0 |  x  x  x
  1 |  x  x  x


Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net

From mark.johnston at pnl.gov  Thu Jan 20 14:39:09 2005
From: mark.johnston at pnl.gov (Johnston, Mark)
Date: Thu Jan 20 14:39:22 2005
Subject: SPUG: Cool power-of-2 trick
Message-ID: <3CA0BC73DFDC2644ABB3F98416F22BC8064AC0@pnlmse29.pnl.gov>

SQL uses a sort of three-valued logic -- False, True and Null (in the
table below, F, T and N):

   &| F T N
   -+------
   F| F F N
   T| F T N
   N| N N N

Of course there is lots of argument over whether Null ought to be
considered a "value".

	--Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: spug-list-bounces@pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@pm.org] On
Behalf Of Michael R. Wolf
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 2:08 PM
To: Brian Hatch
Cc: spug-list@mail.pm.org
Subject: Re: SPUG: Cool power-of-2 trick


At 01:30 PM 1/20/2005, Michael R. Wolf wrote:
>At 12:29 PM 1/20/2005, Brian Hatch wrote:
>
>
>> > While reading through the perl-quiz-of-the-week, I noticed this 
>> > neat test to find if a number is a power of 2.  Originally, I 
>> > didn't even
>> believe it
>> > worked so I wrote a little program to test it.  The program helped 
>> > me figure out that it does, in deed, work, and *how* it works.  If 
>> > a
>> number is
>> > a pure powere of 2, it only has one bit set.
>>...
>>
>>
>>This only works on systems where data is stored in binary.  If you're 
>>on a machine that uses ternary storage units (-1 0 +1) then it does 
>>not work for powers of two, but it does work for powers of three.


What does a trinary trit-wise &-operator act like?  What's the
boolean(?) 
value of each of the trit states?  What's the semantic meaning of the 
lowest-level '&' operator in that context?

Here's a binary table for the results of the &-operator:

  & | 0  1
  --+-----
  0 | 0  0
  1 | 0  1

Analagous to this boolean truth table

  & | F  T
  --+-----
  F | F  F
  T | F  T


What's the trinary logic table?

  & | -1  0  1
  --+---------
-1 |  x  x  x
  0 |  x  x  x
  1 |  x  x  x

What's Boole have to say about its analog?

  & | -1  0  1
  --+---------
-1 |  x  x  x
  0 |  x  x  x
  1 |  x  x  x


Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net

_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
     POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
From tallpeak at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 20 14:42:38 2005
From: tallpeak at hotmail.com (Aaron W. West)
Date: Thu Jan 20 14:43:10 2005
Subject: SPUG: Cool power-of-2 trick
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120111644.02745600@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net><20050120202953.GD18283@ifokr.org>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20050120132554.0278c030@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV8B3E2BF3EE1C6A2347FC3C5810@phx.gbl>

I wonder if there's a quick way to find the smallest power of two equal to 
or greater than a given number.

--------
Here's some of "e" for you.

QPI-Quick Pi v2.70, (c) 2000-2003 S. Pagliarulo
Freely distributable, email: s_pagliarulo@hotmail.com

mobile AMD Athlon(tm) XP2400+ detected
System speed measured at 1.8 GHz
Using default training data

Computation of e to 4,194,304 digits
Method used : Series SUM 1/n!
Started : Mon Aug 23 17:38:02 2004

Series size : 769340  (4,194,309 digits)
Initialization time : 0.01
Series processing time : 6.18
Final value time : 3.06

Total time : 9.24 seconds
Total memory used : 46,910,676 (44.74 MB)
CPU utilization : 88.51%

e = 2.
7182818284 5904523536 0287471352 6624977572 4709369995  : 50
9574966967 6277240766 3035354759 4571382178 5251664274  : 100
2746639193 2003059921 8174135966 2904357290 0334295260  : 150
5956307381 3232862794 3490763233 8298807531 9525101901  : 200
1573834187 9307021540 8914993488 4167509244 7614606680  : 250
8226480016 8477411853 7423454424 3710753907 7744992069  : 300
..
(300 digits is enough for this email...)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael R. Wolf" <MichaelRWolf@att.net>
To: "Brian Hatch" <bri@ifokr.org>
Cc: <spug-list@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: SPUG: Cool power-of-2 trick


At 12:29 PM 1/20/2005, Brian Hatch wrote:


> > While reading through the perl-quiz-of-the-week, I noticed this neat 
> > test
> > to find if a number is a power of 2.  Originally, I didn't even believe 
> > it
> > worked so I wrote a little program to test it.  The program helped me
> > figure out that it does, in deed, work, and *how* it works.  If a
> number is
> > a pure powere of 2, it only has one bit set.
>...
>
>
>This only works on systems where data is stored in binary.  If you're on
>a machine that uses ternary storage units (-1 0 +1) then it does not
>work for powers of two, but it does work for powers of three.
>
>Of course I'm still waiting for the completely optimal system which uses
>storage units of 'e' instead of rounding to 3 for simplicity.


In a grad school EE/CS class, the professor did a proof on the board that
the best computer would, in fact, have each storage unit contain e (approx
2.718281828....?) states.  Since that's closer to 3 than 2, it would be
better to have a trinary system instead of a binary system.  And yes, it
was hard for him to continually say trits (instead of bits) without
scrambling it up!

   :-) -8

To muck with an old punch line -- You silly Rabbi, trits are for kids!!!!



Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net

From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Thu Jan 20 15:05:44 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Thu Jan 20 15:05:58 2005
Subject: SPUG: Cool power-of-2 trick
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-DAV8B3E2BF3EE1C6A2347FC3C5810@phx.gbl>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120111644.02745600@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
	<20050120202953.GD18283@ifokr.org>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20050120132554.0278c030@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
	<BAY101-DAV8B3E2BF3EE1C6A2347FC3C5810@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120150322.0282a468@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

At 02:42 PM 1/20/2005, Aaron W. West wrote:
>I wonder if there's a quick way to find the smallest power of two equal to
>or greater than a given number.

Yes, for some definition of 'quick'.  It's iterative, not a constant order.

Michael


#! /usr/bin/perl -w

sub next_power_of_2 {
     my $num = shift;
     my $ones = 0;
     while ($num) {
         $ones |= $num;
         $num >>= 1;
     }
     return $ones+1;
}

for my $i (0 .. 2<<4) {
     printf "%2d is less than this power of two %3d\n",
       $i, next_power_of_2($i);

}


  0 is less than this power of two   1
  1 is less than this power of two   2
  2 is less than this power of two   4
  3 is less than this power of two   4
  4 is less than this power of two   8
  5 is less than this power of two   8
  6 is less than this power of two   8
  7 is less than this power of two   8
  8 is less than this power of two  16
  9 is less than this power of two  16
10 is less than this power of two  16
11 is less than this power of two  16
12 is less than this power of two  16
13 is less than this power of two  16
14 is less than this power of two  16
15 is less than this power of two  16
16 is less than this power of two  32
17 is less than this power of two  32
18 is less than this power of two  32
19 is less than this power of two  32
20 is less than this power of two  32
21 is less than this power of two  32
22 is less than this power of two  32
23 is less than this power of two  32
24 is less than this power of two  32
25 is less than this power of two  32
26 is less than this power of two  32
27 is less than this power of two  32
28 is less than this power of two  32
29 is less than this power of two  32
30 is less than this power of two  32
31 is less than this power of two  32
32 is less than this power of two  64




Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net

From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Thu Jan 20 19:50:14 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Thu Jan 20 19:50:26 2005
Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG presentation
In-Reply-To: <20050120164054.S56951@bowser.eecs.harvard.edu>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120115141.027c1908@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
	<20050120164054.S56951@bowser.eecs.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120194028.028355d8@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

At 04:49 PM 1/20/2005, Trey Harris wrote:
>Thanks, I really appreciate the kind words.
>
>(Incidentally, I was trained as a linguist, so maybe you've got something
>there.  As a Chomskyan, I really can't abide a Whorf reference with a
>straight face--but I suppose programming languages, as cultural artifact,
>are more amenable to such conjecture and don't require full acceptance of
>the Weltanschauung of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. :-)
>
>Trey


I've been picking up linguistics on the side in the past few years.  I'd 
been quoting the Whorf statement for years before I started researching him 
(or his detractors).  I've backed off his statement a bit, but I still find 
it very useful to start a discussion at the beginning of a programing 
language class.  It sets the stage for the kinds of constructs that the 
language du jour (C, C++, shell, Perl, ...) can (and cannot) do well.  A 
brick is good for some things.  It can even open a can, but only if a can 
opener isn't available, and you're really hungry.  Lots of folks in my 
intro to language-du-jour classes find the discussion helpful as a 
foundation for the rest of the class.  And I find that having had that 
conversation, I don't have to field as many off-topic (i.e. off-language 
questions).  Not that I mind some off-road travel, mind you.  I, too, think 
it's instructive to go over the edge to get a feel for just where it 
is.  The Whorf quote sets a nice framework for the class.

And I do appreciate you challenging the Whorfian hypothesis.  It helps me 
to fit his work into the larger linguistic framework, something I've been 
actively studying for a while.

While we're on the linguistic/author subject....  What are your thoughts on 
"The Language Instinct".  I read it a year ago, and am currently in the 
middle of "How the Mind Works".  I've gotten even more interesting comments 
about Pinker's thinking.

Perhaps we could even pick up a conversation over lunch some time?.  It 
would be interesting to me to engage a formally trained linguist in a 
discussion of what's worth learning in the literature and where some of the 
interesting work is going.

Thanks,
MIchael


Michael R. Wolf
     All mammals learn by playing!
         MichaelRWolf@att.net

From kenslinux at shaw.ca  Fri Jan 21 03:37:41 2005
From: kenslinux at shaw.ca (Ken Clarke)
Date: Fri Jan 21 03:38:41 2005
Subject: SPUG: Cool power-of-2 trick
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20050120111644.02745600@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
	<20050120202953.GD18283@ifokr.org>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20050120132554.0278c030@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
	<BAY101-DAV8B3E2BF3EE1C6A2347FC3C5810@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <005b01c4ffad$9df1a160$37476d18@kens>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron W. West" <tallpeak@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: SPUG: Cool power-of-2 trick


>I wonder if there's a quick way to find the smallest power of two equal to
> or greater than a given number.

Sure, by counting the number of characters in the binary representation of 
the given number less 1, then raising 2 to the power of the count:

$smallest_power_of_two = 2**(length(sprintf "%b", $given_number - 1));

$given_number must be  > 1 because subtracting 1 does not produce a zero 
character binary representation.  You know that the answer for all numbers 
below 2 (including negative numbers) is 1 anyway (2**0 = 1).  I also found 
that it breaks down for given numbers larger than 2**30 but your mileage may 
vary as they say...

There are 10 types of people in the world; those who know binary and those 
who don't.

>> Ken Clarke
>> Contract Web Programmer / E-commerce Technologist
>> www.PerlProgrammer.net



From tim at consultix-inc.com  Fri Jan 21 19:24:10 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Sat Jan 22 11:24:24 2005
Subject: SPUG: Simplest tool for creating custom modules?
Message-ID: <20050122032410.GA25770@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

Friends in Perlity,

I'm writing the section for my book on "Creating your own
modules", and I'm wondering if I should base the discussion on
Exporter.pm, or show the reader one of the more modern tools
(esp. if there's one that's becoming accepted as a "new standard").

The advantage of the Exporter.pm approach is that it's quite
simple and I already know how it works 8-}, but if my readers
would be better off hearing about something newer and shinier
that's also simple and won't ostracize them from other JAPHs, I'm
open to alternatives.

So, would you recommend any of the newer module-making-modules?
If so, which ones?
 
-Tim
P.S.  The readers won't know any OO techniques or anonymous data
      structures, so I'd like to avoid any hints of that syntax
      where possible.

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
*+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-*
|      Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
| Classes:  2/14: Minimal Perl  2/15: Hashes & Arrays  2/16-18: Int. Perl  |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From creede at penguinsinthenight.com  Sat Jan 22 17:42:43 2005
From: creede at penguinsinthenight.com (Creede Lambard)
Date: Sat Jan 22 17:43:01 2005
Subject: SPUG: Simplest tool for creating custom modules?
In-Reply-To: <20050122032410.GA25770@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20050122032410.GA25770@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <20050123014243.GE5940@igor.penguinsinthenight.com>

Unfortunately once you get outside the realm of Exporter you've probably
pretty well stepped away from the idea of "minimal Perl." 

I would guess that anything that doesn't come standard with Perl, you
shouldn't get into*.

*Except in a chapter on CPAN, of course.

I used to use one of the techniques in Damian's OO book

On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 07:24:10PM -0800, Tim Maher wrote:
> Friends in Perlity,
> 
> I'm writing the section for my book on "Creating your own
> modules", and I'm wondering if I should base the discussion on
> Exporter.pm, or show the reader one of the more modern tools
> (esp. if there's one that's becoming accepted as a "new standard").
> 
> The advantage of the Exporter.pm approach is that it's quite
> simple and I already know how it works 8-}, but if my readers
> would be better off hearing about something newer and shinier
> that's also simple and won't ostracize them from other JAPHs, I'm
> open to alternatives.
> 

-- 
===================================================================
                               * .~. (   : Creede Lambard         :
 Never rush a miracle man.    . / V \  . :------------------------:
 You get lousy miracles.       /(   )\   : creede at              :
--------------------------------^^-^^----:     penguinsinthenight :  
 Linux. Reliable and free. Pick any two. :         dot com        :
===================================================================
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From creede at penguinsinthenight.com  Sat Jan 22 23:50:03 2005
From: creede at penguinsinthenight.com (Creede Lambard)
Date: Sat Jan 22 23:50:15 2005
Subject: SPUG: Simplest tool for creating custom modules?
In-Reply-To: <20050123014243.GE5940@igor.penguinsinthenight.com>
References: <20050122032410.GA25770@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
	<20050123014243.GE5940@igor.penguinsinthenight.com>
Message-ID: <20050123075002.GF5940@igor.penguinsinthenight.com>

On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 05:42:43PM -0800, Creede Lambard wrote:
> I used to use one of the techniques in Damian's OO book

Ack. Next time read it over before you hit "send."

I think I was going to talk about one of the Class modules Damian profiled,
then realized that was getting away from the idea of Minimal Perl. Sorry for
the hanging thought.

-- 
===================================================================
                               * .~. (   : Creede Lambard         :
 Never rush a miracle man.    . / V \  . :------------------------:
 You get lousy miracles.       /(   )\   : creede at              :
--------------------------------^^-^^----:     penguinsinthenight :  
 Linux. Reliable and free. Pick any two. :         dot com        :
===================================================================
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From pdarley at kinesis-cem.com  Mon Jan 24 08:34:46 2005
From: pdarley at kinesis-cem.com (Peter Darley)
Date: Mon Jan 24 08:34:53 2005
Subject: SPUG: Tracing back to a calling sub
Message-ID: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPKEPADLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>

Folks,
	I'm trying to figure out if there's a way for a sub to find out what sub
called it?  The situation that I'm in is that I have a lot of generic subs,
such as one that takes a database query string and returns a hash of what
was loaded from the database.  When it fails, I just get an error from the
sub, but it's almost always a error in how I called the sub that caused
problems, and it can be hard to go back through my program and find which
sub called this sub incorrectly.
	So, basically what I want to be able to do is have something like:

sub MySub
{
	my (%Args) = @_;
	# Args: Query = The query to run the Lookup on

	if (! $Args{Query}) {die "A null querry was passed to MySub from
$Calling_Sub!"}

	...
}

	And it would come up with something like
	"A null querry was passed to MySub from LookupUserInfo()!"

Thanks,
Peter Darley

From jimfl at tensegrity.net  Mon Jan 24 08:50:38 2005
From: jimfl at tensegrity.net (Jim Flanagan)
Date: Mon Jan 24 08:51:01 2005
Subject: SPUG: Tracing back to a calling sub
In-Reply-To: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPKEPADLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>
References: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPKEPADLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.55.0501240843130.28044@tensegrity.net>

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Peter Darley wrote:

      > I'm trying to figure out if there's a way for a sub to
      > find out what sub called it?

  Take a look at the second form of the 'caller' function. This should
  get you at what you're looking for.

  my $calling_sub = (caller(0))[3];

  There are situations where this won't quite get what you want, for
  example

  eval {
    $foo =  (caller(0))[3];
    print $foo;
  }

  will print "(eval)" in which case you'll have to increase the level
  in the stack.
From pdarley at kinesis-cem.com  Mon Jan 24 09:04:53 2005
From: pdarley at kinesis-cem.com (Peter Darley)
Date: Mon Jan 24 09:05:01 2005
Subject: SPUG: Tracing back to a calling sub
In-Reply-To: <9da72591050124084519fcdbfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPCEPBDLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>

Kirby,
	That's exactly what I'm looking for.
	I can write a sub that uses caller(2) that I can use to format the
information in a standard way, and then use:

	die "A null query was passed to MySub from " . GetCaller() . "!"

	Thanks for your help!

Thanks,
Peter Darley

-----Original Message-----
From: Kirby Krueger [mailto:kirbyk@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 8:45 AM
To: Peter Darley
Cc: SPUG
Subject: Re: SPUG: Tracing back to a calling sub


Check out perldoc -f caller.  Is this what you're looking for?

-- Kirby


On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:34:46 -0800, Peter Darley
<pdarley@kinesis-cem.com> wrote:
> Folks,
>         I'm trying to figure out if there's a way for a sub to find out
what sub
> called it?  The situation that I'm in is that I have a lot of generic
subs,
> such as one that takes a database query string and returns a hash of what
> was loaded from the database.  When it fails, I just get an error from the
> sub, but it's almost always a error in how I called the sub that caused
> problems, and it can be hard to go back through my program and find which
> sub called this sub incorrectly.
>         So, basically what I want to be able to do is have something like:
>
> sub MySub
> {
>         my (%Args) = @_;
>         # Args: Query = The query to run the Lookup on
>
>         if (! $Args{Query}) {die "A null querry was passed to MySub from
> $Calling_Sub!"}
>
>         ...
> }
>
>         And it would come up with something like
>         "A null querry was passed to MySub from LookupUserInfo()!"
>
> Thanks,
> Peter Darley
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>

From jay at scherrer.com  Mon Jan 24 14:10:33 2005
From: jay at scherrer.com (Jay Scherrer)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:10:09 2005
Subject: SPUG: Tracing back to a calling sub
In-Reply-To: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPKEPADLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>
References: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPKEPADLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>
Message-ID: <200501241410.33635.jay@scherrer.com>

Couldn't  you use a class shift?
I know from using Perl::Tk you  would call mySub like this:

$myinstance->mysub($arg1, $arg2);
When this gets passed the -> acts like a comma seperated list.
And from the pakage::MySub you would get this:
sub MySub {

my $this = shift;
my (%Args) = @_;
if (! $Args{Query}) {die "A null querry was passed to MySub from 
$this";
}

Jay Scherrer

On Monday 24 January 2005 08:34 am, Peter Darley wrote:
> Folks,
>  I'm trying to figure out if there's a way for a sub to find out
> what sub called it?  The situation that I'm in is that I have a lot
> of generic subs, such as one that takes a database query string and
> returns a hash of what was loaded from the database.  When it
> fails, I just get an error from the sub, but it's almost always a
> error in how I called the sub that caused problems, and it can be
> hard to go back through my program and find which sub called this
> sub incorrectly.
>  So, basically what I want to be able to do is have something like:
>
> sub MySub
> {
>  my (%Args) = @_;
>  # Args: Query = The query to run the Lookup on
>
>  if (! $Args{Query}) {die "A null querry was passed to MySub from
> $Calling_Sub!"}
>
>  ...
> }
>
>  And it would come up with something like
>  "A null querry was passed to MySub from LookupUserInfo()!"
>
> Thanks,
> Peter Darley
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
From pdarley at kinesis-cem.com  Mon Jan 24 14:38:43 2005
From: pdarley at kinesis-cem.com (Peter Darley)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:38:53 2005
Subject: SPUG: Tracing back to a calling sub
In-Reply-To: <200501241410.33635.jay@scherrer.com>
Message-ID: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPOEPEDLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>

Jay,
	Wouldn't $myinstance have to be blessed as an object to do that?
Thanks,
Peter Darley

-----Original Message-----
From: spug-list-bounces@pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@pm.org]On
Behalf Of Jay Scherrer
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:11 PM
To: spug-list@pm.org
Subject: Re: SPUG: Tracing back to a calling sub


Couldn't  you use a class shift?
I know from using Perl::Tk you  would call mySub like this:

$myinstance->mysub($arg1, $arg2);
When this gets passed the -> acts like a comma seperated list.
And from the pakage::MySub you would get this:
sub MySub {

my $this = shift;
my (%Args) = @_;
if (! $Args{Query}) {die "A null querry was passed to MySub from 
$this";
}

Jay Scherrer

On Monday 24 January 2005 08:34 am, Peter Darley wrote:
> Folks,
>  I'm trying to figure out if there's a way for a sub to find out
> what sub called it?  The situation that I'm in is that I have a lot
> of generic subs, such as one that takes a database query string and
> returns a hash of what was loaded from the database.  When it
> fails, I just get an error from the sub, but it's almost always a
> error in how I called the sub that caused problems, and it can be
> hard to go back through my program and find which sub called this
> sub incorrectly.
>  So, basically what I want to be able to do is have something like:
>
> sub MySub
> {
>  my (%Args) = @_;
>  # Args: Query = The query to run the Lookup on
>
>  if (! $Args{Query}) {die "A null querry was passed to MySub from
> $Calling_Sub!"}
>
>  ...
> }
>
>  And it would come up with something like
>  "A null querry was passed to MySub from LookupUserInfo()!"
>
> Thanks,
> Peter Darley
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
     POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/

From jay at scherrer.com  Mon Jan 24 16:46:53 2005
From: jay at scherrer.com (Jay Scherrer)
Date: Mon Jan 24 16:46:27 2005
Subject: SPUG: Tracing back to a calling sub
In-Reply-To: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPOEPEDLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>
References: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPOEPEDLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>
Message-ID: <200501241646.53524.jay@scherrer.com>

yep your right. 

Sorry,

Jay Scherrer

On Monday 24 January 2005 02:38 pm, Peter Darley wrote:
 
>Jay,
>???????Wouldn't $myinstance have to be blessed as an object to do 
>that?
>Thanks,
>Peter Darley
From glim at mycybernet.net  Mon Jan 24 19:59:00 2005
From: glim at mycybernet.net (glim@mycybernet.net)
Date: Mon Jan 24 19:58:13 2005
Subject: SPUG: Yet Another Perl Conference North America 2005 announces
	call-for-papers
Message-ID: <m1CtHpq-000X8gC@mail.cybrnet.net>

   YAPC::NA 2005 (Yet Another Perl Conference, North America) has just
   released its call-for-papers; potential and aspiring speakers can
   submit a presentation proposal via:

         http://yapc.org/America/cfp-2005.shtml

   The dates of the conference are Monday - Wednesday 27-29 June 2005.
   The location will be in downtown Toronto, Ontario, Canada. (Note that
   a different date block was previously announced, but has been moved to
   accomodate venue availability.)

   The close of the call-for-papers is April 18, 2005 at 11:59 pm.

   If you have any questions regarding the call-for-papers or speaking at
   YAPC::NA 2005 please email na-author@yapc.org

   We would love to hear from potential sponsors. Please contact the
   organizers at na-sponsor@yapc.org to learn about the benefits of
   sponsorship.

   Other information regarding the conference (e.g. venue, registration
   specifics) will be announced soon.

   We look forward to your submissions and a great conference!


From andrew at sweger.net  Mon Jan 24 20:23:17 2005
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Mon Jan 24 20:23:27 2005
Subject: SPUG: Tracing back to a calling sub
In-Reply-To: <PDEOIIFFBIAABMGNJAGPKEPADLAA.pdarley@kinesis-cem.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501242022050.23206-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Peter Darley wrote:

> sub MySub
> {
> 	my (%Args) = @_;
> 	# Args: Query = The query to run the Lookup on
> 
> 	if (! $Args{Query}) {die "A null querry was passed to MySub from
> $Calling_Sub!"}
> 
> 	...
> }

See also:

use Carp;  # perldoc Carp

if (...) {
  confess "Received null query";
}

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.

From tim at consultix-inc.com  Tue Jan 25 12:49:20 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Tue Jan 25 12:49:31 2005
Subject: SPUG: Minimal Perl book has arrived!
Message-ID: <20050125204920.GA31349@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

... well, at least the *cover* has arrived.

The book will probably appear in May, but in the meantime,
at we can enjoy the cover art!

Go to http://www.minimalperl.com , and click on the cover picture
for a larger image.

I'm quite pleased with the overall effect created by the wizardly
figure holding a very bizarre and long pipe, which took a lot of
fishing around in the Manning image bank to find.

But there is still plenty of time to change some details. So what
do you think of it?

-Tim
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
*+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-*
|      Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
| Classes:  2/14: Minimal Perl  2/15: Hashes & Arrays  2/16-18: Int. Perl  |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From haircut at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 13:17:14 2005
From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen)
Date: Tue Jan 25 13:17:46 2005
Subject: SPUG: Minimal Perl book has arrived!
In-Reply-To: <20050125204920.GA31349@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20050125204920.GA31349@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <9ebd651105012513171aeff758@mail.gmail.com>

The cover art looks fantastic. What monk is that? He's got a sweet
dagger and the longest fricking pipe I've ever seen.

Congratulations Tim, this is a great accomplishment!


On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:49:20 -0800, Tim Maher <tim@consultix-inc.com> wrote:
> ... well, at least the *cover* has arrived.
> 
> The book will probably appear in May, but in the meantime,
> at we can enjoy the cover art!
> 
> Go to http://www.minimalperl.com , and click on the cover picture
> for a larger image.
> 
> I'm quite pleased with the overall effect created by the wizardly
> figure holding a very bizarre and long pipe, which took a lot of
> fishing around in the Manning image bank to find.
> 
> But there is still plenty of time to change some details. So what
> do you think of it?
> 
> -Tim
> *--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
> | Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
> | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
> *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-*
> |      Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
> | Classes:  2/14: Minimal Perl  2/15: Hashes & Arrays  2/16-18: Int. Perl  |
> *--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list@pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
> 


-- 
Adam Monsen <adamm@wazamatta.com>
http://adammonsen.com/
From sthoenna at efn.org  Tue Jan 25 13:34:51 2005
From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
Date: Tue Jan 25 13:35:05 2005
Subject: SPUG: Minimal Perl book has arrived!
In-Reply-To: <20050125204920.GA31349@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20050125204920.GA31349@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <20050125213451.GA3020@efn.org>

On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 12:49:20PM -0800, Tim Maher wrote:
> ... well, at least the *cover* has arrived.
> 
> The book will probably appear in May, but in the meantime,
> at we can enjoy the cover art!
> 
> Go to http://www.minimalperl.com , and click on the cover picture
> for a larger image.
> 
> I'm quite pleased with the overall effect created by the wizardly
> figure holding a very bizarre and long pipe, which took a lot of
> fishing around in the Manning image bank to find.
> 
> But there is still plenty of time to change some details. So what
> do you think of it?

I thought the bloodstains left from tucking the knife back under the
yellow band without proPerly cleaning it first were a little much.
From tim at consultix-inc.com  Tue Jan 25 17:35:59 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Tue Jan 25 17:36:17 2005
Subject: SPUG: Minimal Perl book has arrived!
In-Reply-To: <20050125213451.GA3020@efn.org>
References: <20050125204920.GA31349@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
	<20050125213451.GA3020@efn.org>
Message-ID: <20050126013559.GA19065@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 01:34:51PM -0800, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
> > 
> > Go to http://www.minimalperl.com , and click on the cover picture
> > for a larger image.
> > 
> I thought the bloodstains left from tucking the knife back under the
> yellow band without proPerly cleaning it first were a little much.

Yikes!  And all this time I thought those were just decorative stripes!

-Tim
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
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From KBuff at zetron.com  Tue Jan 25 17:07:30 2005
From: KBuff at zetron.com (Kurt Buff)
Date: Tue Jan 25 18:46:51 2005
Subject: SPUG: Minimal Perl book has arrived!
Message-ID: <054222519C2ED411A68E00508B603AC706534919@zetxch01.zetron.com>

Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes said...
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 12:49:20PM -0800, Tim Maher wrote:
> > ... well, at least the *cover* has arrived.
> > 
> > The book will probably appear in May, but in the meantime,
> > at we can enjoy the cover art!
> > 
> > Go to http://www.minimalperl.com , and click on the cover picture
> > for a larger image.
> > 
> > I'm quite pleased with the overall effect created by the wizardly
> > figure holding a very bizarre and long pipe, which took a lot of
> > fishing around in the Manning image bank to find.
> > 
> > But there is still plenty of time to change some details. So what
> > do you think of it?
> 
> I thought the bloodstains left from tucking the knife back under the
> yellow band without proPerly cleaning it first were a little much.

I don't think those are bloodstains. It's a striped belt...

Kurt


  

From charles.e.derykus at boeing.com  Tue Jan 25 23:00:48 2005
From: charles.e.derykus at boeing.com (DeRykus, Charles E)
Date: Tue Jan 25 23:01:18 2005
Subject: SPUG: Minimal Perl book has arrived!
Message-ID: <5DF8FDE8DFE8744388602480FDCC0E3106F3D020@xch-nw-23.nw.nos.boeing.com>



> 
> I thought the bloodstains left from tucking the knife back under the 
> yellow band without proPerly cleaning it first were a little much.

>> Yikes!  And all this time I thought those were just decorative stripes!

Nah, I'll bet they're wounds  ... normally occurring in the vicinity of the foot.