From tim at consultix-inc.com Sat Jan 3 18:43:31 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:13 2004 Subject: SPUG: The State of the SPUGion: Big Changes Message-ID: <20040104004331.GA28483@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> SPUGsters, Happy New Year -- now get ready for some really SPUGstantial news! END OF AN ERA: SPUG leaves Safeco Auditorium I've just learned that Feb. 17th will be our last meeting at the Safeco auditorium. I'm sorry to hear that, because it's vitally important to the health and productivity of a users group to have a stable meeting place (just ask London.pm), and we've been very fortunate to have had the use of this *very nice meeting place* for /so very long/. Please join me in a virtual salute to the "powers that be" over at Safeco for their generosity in making their auditorium available to us, and especially to fellow SPUGsters Dora Choi and Andy Sweger for hosting the meetings and making sure everything works: csh -c 'repeat 3 echo "Hip, hip, hooray!"' ("repeat" is literally the ONLY feature I ever use the C-shell for!) JOB OPENING: SPUG Leader As it happens, I've been planning an announcement of my own, and given this recent development, I've decided to make it coincide with the change in venue. Specifically, I'm stepping down as SPUG leader, effective Feb. 17, at 9pm (i.e., immediately after I finish the talk I have in mind for that meeting). I'm delighted that we've achieved worldwide recognition with our achievements in SPUG, and I'm proud to have played a part in that. Most of all, I'm glad we've been able to establish a local community of mutually supportive Perl mongers that has as much depth and breadth in technical matters as any other Perl group on the planet. So why am I stepping down? I feel that I've accomplished with SPUG what I set out to do, and having met that challenge, I'd like to have more time to spend on other pursuits (viz., my Perl book, my training business, developing Perl programmer certifications, my hobbies, and charity work). So it's time for others, with untapped reserves of enthusiasm and ideas, to step forward and guide SPUG into the future. THE TRANSITIONAL PERIOD I'll continue to manage the mailing list, web page, and speaker arrangements through the Feb. meeting. On the other hand, I'll leave the process of finding a new home for SPUG meetings to others. In this regard, I heartily recommend that a "Venue Search Committee" be established ASAP to address this issue. (I'll be happy to offer suggestions based on my copious experience of dealing with this problem *way too many times* in the past.) SEE YOU SOON I'll see you at the January and February meetings, and I look forward to celebrating SPUG's 6th birthday with you all at the new (to be determined) meeting place on March 16th! All the best for 2004, -Tim ******************************************************************* P.S. Action Item: SPUGsters need to form a "Venue Search Committee" ******************************************************************* ============================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. tim(AT)teachmeperl.com | | SPUG Founder & Leader spug(AT)teachmeperl.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group http://www.seattleperl.com | | SPUG Wiki Site http://spugwiki.perlocity.org | | Perl Certification Site http://perlcert.perlocity.org | ============================================================== From moonbeam at catmanor.com Sat Jan 3 21:15:39 2004 From: moonbeam at catmanor.com (William Julien) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:13 2004 Subject: SPUG: spugwiki defaced Message-ID: <200401040315.i043FdqB006113@catmanor.com> Tim, I noticed tonight that the spugwiki has been defaced by someone in brazil. It's too bad that the kwiki doesn't have revision control. I have found a google cached copy at: http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:UHuFiZ3Zq6EJ:spugwiki.perlocity.org/index.cgi%3FSpugWiki+spugwiki&hl=en&start=2&ie=UTF-8 Of course, this lacks all the necessary wiki markup. But at least it has the content. William From andrew at sweger.net Sat Jan 3 22:52:28 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:13 2004 Subject: SPUG: spugwiki defaced In-Reply-To: <200401040315.i043FdqB006113@catmanor.com> Message-ID: Actually, I have the kwiki tied into RCS for revision control. Every page change is commited to an RCS file. So, no sweat. A cursory glance over the system indicates that only one page was defaced (the main page). The change has been undone by using the revision menu on the edit screen to go back to the last known good version (anyone can do it). There are also preferences to permit displaying revision history and diffs on each page (below the content). The defacement occured at 10:13 PST on 01 January 2004. On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, William Julien wrote: > I noticed tonight that the spugwiki has been defaced by someone in > brazil. It's too bad that the kwiki doesn't have revision control. I > have found a google cached copy at: -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From andrew at sweger.net Sun Jan 4 19:05:06 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:13 2004 Subject: SPUG: spugwiki defaced In-Reply-To: <20040104172423.GA2958@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: I'm sharing my reply with the SPUG list as others may have similar questions. On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Tim Maher wrote: > Why doesn't that also mean that anyone could reinstate the defaced > page too? Anyone can and may (and probably will). It would be no different than someone reverting a page to an extremely old version with incorrect information or one that was accidently damaged while editing and subsequently corrected in the revision history. > Did you remove it from the RCS database? I did not. I could easily go in and "outdate" the offending revision, but that depends on me to police the system and determine what qualifies. This is not something I'm willing to do without wads of cash being shoved into my eager hands. I feel that the policing of Wiki's is a community responsibility. If a Wiki becomes littered with graffiti or a message board for unwelcome behavior and the community can't or won't maintain it, then the need for that particular Wiki has passed. (I have different comments regarding the rise of bot-scripts that spray spam on Wiki's and blogs.) The front page was replaced with, what I assume is Portuguese, "Eu estive aki". My Portuguese skill is non-existent, but could this possibly translate to "I stow here" (estivar = to stow; aki a misspelling of aqui = here)? But then I'd think it should be, "Eu estivo aqui," but that would make more sense as maybe, "Eu armazeno aqui." Who knows? That IP address isn't welcome at my server for now. (I mostly used the English-Portuguese and Portuguese-English Freedict dictionaries and a basic understanding of Spanish language mechanics. And iptables to block the IP in question.) -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From myocom at microsoft.com Sun Jan 4 20:53:38 2004 From: myocom at microsoft.com (Mark Yocom) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:13 2004 Subject: SPUG: spugwiki defaced Message-ID: "Eu estive aki" is almost certainly "I was here" (compare to Spanish "Yo estuve aqu?"). > -----Original Message----- > From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sweger > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 5:05 PM > To: Tim Maher > Cc: Seattle Perl Users Group > Subject: Re: SPUG: spugwiki defaced > > I'm sharing my reply with the SPUG list as others may have similar > questions. > > On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Tim Maher wrote: > > > Why doesn't that also mean that anyone could reinstate the defaced > > page too? > > Anyone can and may (and probably will). It would be no different than > someone reverting a page to an extremely old version with incorrect > information or one that was accidently damaged while editing and > subsequently corrected in the revision history. > > > Did you remove it from the RCS database? > > I did not. I could easily go in and "outdate" the offending > revision, but > that depends on me to police the system and determine what > qualifies. This > is not something I'm willing to do without wads of cash being > shoved into > my eager hands. I feel that the policing of Wiki's is a community > responsibility. If a Wiki becomes littered with graffiti or a message > board for unwelcome behavior and the community can't or won't > maintain it, > then the need for that particular Wiki has passed. (I have different > comments regarding the rise of bot-scripts that spray spam on > Wiki's and > blogs.) > > The front page was replaced with, what I assume is > Portuguese, "Eu estive > aki". My Portuguese skill is non-existent, but could this possibly > translate to "I stow here" (estivar = to stow; aki a > misspelling of aqui = > here)? But then I'd think it should be, "Eu estivo aqui," but > that would > make more sense as maybe, "Eu armazeno aqui." Who knows? That > IP address > isn't welcome at my server for now. (I mostly used the > English-Portuguese > and Portuguese-English Freedict dictionaries and a basic > understanding of > Spanish language mechanics. And iptables to block the IP in question.) > > -- > Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several > things can go wrong at once. > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, U-District, Seattle WA > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > > From tim at consultix-inc.com Sun Jan 4 21:01:49 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:13 2004 Subject: SPUG: spugwiki defaced In-Reply-To: References: <20040104172423.GA2958@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: <20040105030149.GA6616@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 05:05:06PM -0800, Andrew Sweger wrote: > I'm sharing my reply with the SPUG list as others may have similar > questions. > > On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Tim Maher wrote: > > > Why doesn't that also mean that anyone could reinstate the defaced > > page too? > > Anyone can and may (and probably will). It would be no different than > someone reverting a page to an extremely old version with incorrect > information or one that was accidently damaged while editing and > subsequently corrected in the revision history. > > > Did you remove it from the RCS database? Andy, The reason I asked these questions was not to encourage you to do extra work, but instead to obtain clarification as to why I couldn't find the "defaced" page of 1/1/04 in the RCS popup menu when I looked for it earlier today (there wasn't anything newer than 11/24 visible). But just now when I checked, I saw entries for 1/1 (the defacing) and 1/3 (the refacing), followed by my edits of today! Seems odd that the menu changed during the course of this day. Perhaps my browser was playing tricks on me... Anyway, thanks for taking the time to fix the home page, and to write your response. -Tim *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From andrew at sweger.net Sun Jan 4 21:38:36 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: spugwiki defaced In-Reply-To: <20040105030149.GA6616@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Tim Maher wrote: > Perhaps my browser was playing tricks on me... I like that. I need to add that one to my BOFH excuse file. > Anyway, thanks for taking the time to fix the home page, and to write > your response. No problem whatsoever, professor. :) -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jan 5 13:45:53 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl Job in Albuquerque Message-ID: <20040105194553.GA12110@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> FatCow.Com is a very successful Internet web hosting site in Albuquerque, New Mexico, who is seeking a UNIX Developer experienced in Perl If you know of anyone who might be interested, please ask them to E-mail a resume to hr@fatcow.com. FatCow offers a competitive beginning salary ($50K - $70K) and excellent benefits. Specifically, FatCow is seeking an individual with significant experience developing web-based solutions in Perl utilizing UNIX relational databases, such as MySQL and Oracle. The selected candidate will support the award-winning web application hardware and software architecture. The candidate must possess a minimum of 2-3 years of Perl development experience; 2-3 years of MySQL and relational database experience; 2-3 years of Solaris/UNIX use; a BS in Computer Science; and be very motivated and capable of working in a high-energy, unstructured environment. Albuquerque, New Mexico, with its surrounding area, is a city of about 700,000 people. We don't have traffic congestion or pollution. At 5000 feet above sea level, we are considered high desert, never experiencing the summer heat of the lower areas such as Phoenix. Our winters are mild allowing one to golf or play tennis or drive up to the mountains for a day of skiing or hiking. We have about 360 days of sun. Thank you for your help. Kathy Smith kathysmith0918@comcast.net Contract recruiter for FatCow From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jan 5 22:42:51 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Jan Mtg: Intro to Perl Message-ID: <20040106044251.GA15346@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> SPUGsters, We're due for a "beginner's night", so this month I'll provide an "Intro to Perl" for those who've been craving one. Obviously, I'll be aiming at a less sophisticated audience than usual, and naturally, I'll be recycling material from previous talks, so I'm especially interested in attracting first-time visitors who wouldn't be able to handle the pace of our regular meetings. So please help spread the word to potentially interested parties by forwarding this email to friends and colleagues, and cross-posting it on other mailing lists. I'm currently expecting to continue my "Intro to Perl" during the Feb. 20th meeting, but I'd be willing to relinquish that time slot if somebody else is itching to talk about something then. Hope You Survive the Big Snow, -Tim January Seattle Perl Users Group Meeting -------------------------------------------------------- Title: Introduction to Perl Speaker: Tim Maher, Consultix (timteachmeperl.com) Date & Time: Tuesday, Jan. 20, 2004 7-9pm Location: SAFECO bldg, Brooklyn St. and NE 45th St. Cost: Admission is free and open to the general public. Info: http://seattleperl.org/ -------------------------------------------------------- In this talk, veteran UNIX/Linux/Perl trainer Tim Maher will provide an overview of the Perl language and Perl culture, for the benefit of those who are interested in the language but don't yet know much about it. The emphasis will be on basic features of Perl, especially ones that are easy to learn for those familiar with the UNIX grep, sed, and/or awk commands, and basic shell programming principles (use of variables, arguments, redirection, etc.). Tim's talk will feature excerpts from his upcoming book for Manning Press called "Minimal Perl for Shell Users and Programmers", his commercial Perl training courses, and his past presentations at the LinuxFest Northwest conference, YAPC conferences in the US and Europe, and The Perl Conference. Topics for this meeting will include: * the easiest way to write Perl programs * simple Perl scripts that improve on grep, sed, and awk * the Five Perl "one-liners" all UNIX users should know + and one they shouldn't, but they'll learn it anyway * three Perl scripts UNIX users shouldn't live without * which Shell loop is missing from standard Perl ... and how you can use it anyway! * what a module is, and how to get free ones from CPAN Pre- and Post- Meeting Activities --------------------------------- The pre-meeting dinner will be at the Cedars restaurant, at 50th St. and Brooklyn, in the University District, near the Safeco building where the meeting will take place. The phone number is 527-5247. If you are planning to be there, please enter your name on the Kwiki RSVP page by 2pm on the meeting day. (NOTE: Arrival by 5:45pm is recommended for those ordering food). *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From dvergin at igc.org Tue Jan 6 06:14:09 2004 From: dvergin at igc.org (David Vergin) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: spugwiki defaced In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1073391249.2379.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-01-05 at 01:05, Andrew Sweger wrote: > The front page was replaced with, what I assume is Portuguese, "Eu estive > aki". ...could this possibly translate to "I stow here" I expect something more like a mangling of: Eu estava aqui = I was here FWIW dv From tim at consultix-inc.com Tue Jan 6 14:47:36 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Emergency Mtg at 3:30: RingMongers Message-ID: <20040106204736.GA20939@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Emergency Meeting of SPUG::RingMongers for Jan. 6, 2004 * Where: o Tully's coffee shop at 20th Ave NW and Market St., in Ballard o (206) 781-4887 * When: o At 3:30 * Why: o for a Snow-Day viewing of the Return of the King at the Majestic Bay theatre (next to the coffee shop) at 4:15 * How Much: o $6 * Is the theatre really open today? o Yes, Tim checked * Is Tully's really open today? o Yes, Tim checked * Who's Attending: o Check http://spugwiki.perlocity.org/index.cgi?RingMongers Feel free to cross-post to other nerdly groups, so we can assemble a veritable army of geeks to defend those cute little hobbits against the forces of evil! *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From tim at consultix-inc.com Tue Jan 6 15:45:05 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: RingMongers: Corrected Address In-Reply-To: <20040106204736.GA20939@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> References: <20040106204736.GA20939@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: <20040106214505.GA21286@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> ** Corrected Address Version, Tue Jan 6 13:40:35 PST 2004 Did your boss close the shop, preventing you from going into your digital trance and solving abstract problems today? Or are you unable to get to work because of the snow? Or maybe you always work at home, and long to have a "snow day" like other workers? Well if you're already in Ballard, or you can get there safely, here's a program to keep your information-processing circuitry amused for about three hours. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Emergency Meeting of SPUG::RingMongers for Jan. 6, 2004 * Where: o Tully's coffee shop at 22nd Ave NW and Market St., in Ballard o (206) 781-4887 * When: o At 3:30 * Why: o for a Snow-Day viewing of the Return of the King at the Majestic Bay theatre (next to the coffee shop) at 4:15 * How Much: o $6 * Is Tully's really open today? o Yes, Tim checked * Is the theatre really open today? o Yes, Tim checked * Who's Attending: o Check http://spugwiki.perlocity.org/index.cgi?RingMongers o And add your name to the list! Feel free to cross-post to other nerdly groups, so we can assemble a veritable army of geeks to defend those cute little hobbits against the forces of evil! *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From MichaelRWolf at att.net Thu Jan 8 21:56:49 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: parameterized push Message-ID: I'd like to parameterize the first argument to push. In the following code, the "if" clause does what I want, but it - takes too many lines, - I have to type $_ more than once, - I have to type "push" more than once, - it's got too many punctuation characters - it's got too many CR's, and - I'd like to think functionally. I figured I could do this by using the ternary operator to decide which array to pass to push. (It could get more "interesting".) But most importantly, I'm trying to do two transformations on the code so that it can fit in one line and I can look like a real froody JAPH. I tried a few ways to parameterize push in the "else" clause, and eventualy got it to work using a deref of a block that returns a reference. It works. Is there an easier (i.e. more readable, and without resorting to references) way to pass an argument off to push? Thanks, Michael P.S. This decision clause could get more intersting, possibly to include a multi-way dispatch.... $arg = something # Push in on the appropriate array, or the default array. push @{ {key1=>\@array1, key2=>\@array2}->{$arg} || \@array_def }, $_; # Simplified to... $dispatch_ref = {key1=>\@array1, key2=>\@array2, key3=>\@array3}; push @{ $dispatch_ref->{$arg} || \@array_def }, $_; @array1, @array2...@arrayN have stuff keyed by $arg @array_def contains the rest ================================================================ #! /usr/bin/perl use warnings; # Play, play, play -- learn, learn, learn # Set $magic_number as a key to the unnamed hash that sets $code_frag, # defaulting it if $magic_number is not a key. my $magic_number = 1; # Choose 99 for multi-line... my $code_frag = {3 => "three-line", 2 => "two-line", 1 => "one-line"}->{$magic_number} || "multi-line"; # $code_frag = "one-line"; if ($code_frag =~ /multi-line/) { # This code works fine. while () { if (1 .. /^\s*$/) { # Is it 1st line through blank line? push @header, $_; } else { push @body, $_; } } } elsif ($code_frag =~ /one-line/) { # The commented-out lines don't work. # push 1 .. /^\s*$/ ? @header : @body, $_ while (); # push {1 .. /^\s*$/ ? @header : @body}, $_ while (); # push eval {1 .. /^\s*$/ ? @header : @body}, $_ while (); # The first arg to push derefs to be one array or the other. The # flip-flop decides if we're in the header (1st line through blank # line) or not. # Can it get simpler than this???????????? push @{1 .. /^\s*$/ ? \@header : \@body}, $_ while (); } else { die "bad code_frag value"; } END { # Always execute this code, even if we die. print "magic_number: $magic_number\n"; print "code_frag: $code_frag\n"; print "\n"; print "head ", "V"x78, "\n", @header; print "body ", "V"x78, "\n", @body; print "="x78, "\n"; } __DATA__ 1 head 2 head 3 head 4 head 1 body 2 body 3 body 4 body 5 body 6 body 7 body LAST LINE OF BODY From sthoenna at efn.org Sun Jan 11 04:04:25 2004 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: parameterized push In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040111100425.GB6872@efn.org> On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 07:56:49PM -0800, "Michael R. Wolf" wrote: > Is there an easier (i.e. more readable, and without resorting to > references) way to pass an argument off to push? Nope. $ perl -we'print prototype "CORE::push"' \@@ push has a \@ as the first part of the prototype, and perlsub says: Any backslashed prototype character represents an actual argument that absolutely must start with that character. The value passed as part of C<@_> will be a reference to the actual argument given in the subroutine call, obtained by applying C<\> to that argument. so only an array or array dereference (like you have) should work. There is actually a bug that allows push CONST ? @a : @b, LIST to work, but don't depend upon it, since it might get fixed. From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jan 12 13:37:37 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Cert. discussion flaming at UPO Message-ID: <20040112193737.GA16973@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> SPUGsters, There's a spirited interchange going on over at use.perl.org on the issue of Perl certification. The comments are in response to my (YUMPY) posting that's titled "TPJ Article ...". Check it out! *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From MichaelRWolf at att.net Thu Jan 15 19:33:07 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: LAMP training (the other MP part) Message-ID: Anyone have recommendateion for a good MySQL/PHP instructor or company that I could recommend to a client in Texas? -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From bri at ifokr.org Thu Jan 15 20:12:04 2004 From: bri at ifokr.org (Brian Hatch) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: LAMP training (the other MP part) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040116021204.GB17795@ifokr.org> > Anyone have recommendateion for a good MySQL/PHP instructor or company > that I could recommend to a client in Texas? I'd recommend my partner at Onsight, James Lee. He rocks. And he wrote a boot with LAMP in the title, so that helps... -- Brian Hatch "Network Solutions: Systems and We're the 'duh' Security Engineer in dot com". http://www.ifokr.org/bri/ Every message PGP signed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/spug-list/attachments/20040115/4848d88c/attachment.bin From tim at consultix-inc.com Fri Jan 16 12:03:31 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl Developer Gig Message-ID: <20040116180331.GA26422@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Hi there, I'd like to provide the following job for your users. Thanks very much. *MUST KNOW: * Perl * Perl script * C/C++ - a solid bonus skill * understand the build process and Perl code. *understand compilers BONUS, not necessary: 1) .NET framework familiarity, 2). Some SQL Server or RDBMS experience. *These are Perl coding spots w/build and debug--may look at entire code base and possibly re-do both their build processes.This person needs to be senior enough to lead this... The team : Responsible for developing the (CONFIDENTIAL, will let you know upon discussion if qualified) product and re-write Perl code which is old with little to no documentation. They are developing new tools for the build process and they have 2 separate build processes. The 2 Build processes are for the SDK for (CONFIDENTIAL, will let you know upon discussion if qualified). There is service paks in this environment There are 2 positions ============== *contract or permanent position - contract. Expected duration is 3- 6 months. Pay range is 34-44/hr on W-2. *placement is thru Volt for a client in Redmond WA *telecommuting possible? No, sorry. *Software - enterprise and consumer Feel free to have anyone interested email me directly. Karl Augustine Technical Recruiting Manager Volt Services Group (425) 702-9000 x1365 v-karlau@microsoft.com (800) 253-9605 From tim at consultix-inc.com Fri Jan 16 17:08:57 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Jan. Mtg: Intro to Perl Message-ID: <20040116230857.GA28396@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Who's right about Perl? "Perl is an immensely powerful language, suitable for a wide range of applications, that allows unparalleled freedom of expression and diversity in coding solutions." "Perl is a write-only, line-noise language that encourages programmers to cultivate incompatible idiosyncratic dialects of cryptic symbols, making it difficult for one programmer to understand or maintain programs written by another." Who's right? Both! Perl is indeed a powerful and important language with lots of features and coding options, and it can be difficult to learn and hard to read. /But it doesn't have to be!/ To make Perl *more accessible* and /more acceptable/ to IT departments, Tim Maher has developed a tiny subset of the language called "Minimal Perl" that is easily learned yet sufficient for writing many useful kinds of highly readable programs. For the January 20th SPUG meeting, Tim will provide an "Intro to Perl" for those who've been craving one, that's based on the Minimal Perl dialect. Because this is a beginner's oriented talk, we're especially interested in attracting first-time visitors to SPUG who wouldn't be able to handle the pace of our regular meetings. So please help spread the word to potentially interested parties by forwarding this email to friends and colleagues, and cross-posting it on other mailing lists. Tim will continue his Intro to Perl at the Feb 17th meeting, and if possible, interested parties should try to attend both sessions. -Tim January/February Seattle Perl Users Group Meeting --------------------------------------------------------- Title: "Introduction to Perl", Parts I and II Speaker: Tim Maher, Consultix (timteachmeperl.com) Part I: Tuesday, Jan. 20, 2004 7-9pm Part II: Tuesday, Feb. 17, 2004 7-9pm Location: SAFECO bldg, Brooklyn St. and NE 45th St. Seattle WA USA Cost: Free and open to the general public. More Info: http://seattleperl.org/ --------------------------------------------------------- In these talks, veteran UNIX/Linux/Perl trainer Tim Maher will provide an introduction to the Perl language. The emphasis will be on basic features of Perl, especially ones that are easy to learn for those familiar with the UNIX *grep* command and its relatives, and with fundamental shell programming principles (use of variables, arguments, redirection, etc.). Attendees will learn the *easy way* to write Perl programs that can do "file conversion", "data validation", "report generation", and "number crunching", among other things. Tim's talk will feature excerpts from his upcoming book for Manning Press called "Minimal Perl for Shell Users and Programmers", his commercial Perl training courses, and his past presentations at the LinuxFest Northwest conference, YAPC conferences in the US and Europe, and The Perl Conference. Pre- and Post- Meeting Activities --------------------------------- The pre-meeting dinner will be at the Cedars restaurant, at 50th St. and Brooklyn, in the University District, near the Safeco building where the meeting will take place. The phone number is 527-5247. If you are planning to be there, please enter your name on the Kwiki RSVP page (see spugwiki.perlocity.org) by 2pm on the meeting day. (NOTE: Arrival by 5:45pm is recommended for those ordering food). *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, U-District, Seattle WA WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org -- *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From tim at consultix-inc.com Fri Jan 16 17:22:00 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: The future of SPUG Message-ID: <20040116232200.GA28404@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> SPUGsters, As indicated a few weeks back, I'm relinquishing the reins of SPUG after the 2/17th meeting, which happens to also be the last meeting that SPUG will have at Safeco (unless somebody can round up a new Safeco employee as a sponsor). I hope many of you have found the existence of SPUG to be an asset to your professional careers, as I have. If so, I strongly encourage you to step forward and play a part in keeping it going, because it will be much harder to rekindle the flames of SPUG after a hiatus than it will be to keep it alive. If I'm the only guy who cares enough about SPUG to work to preserve it, then it deserves to die along with my retirement (which by the way is exactly what happened to E-SPUG, the East-side chapter, when "Emperor Ryan" retired). But it would be a shame if SPUG were to die just because well-intentioned individuals never got around to doing anything to avoid that eventuality. It's impossible to overemphasize the fact that the future of SPUG is in your hands. Don't sit on them! -Tim ============================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. tim(AT)teachmeperl.com | | SPUG Founder & Leader spug(AT)teachmeperl.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group http://www.seattleperl.com | | SPUG Wiki Site http://spugwiki.perlocity.org | | Perl Certification Site http://perlcert.perlocity.org | ============================================================== From tim at consultix-inc.com Sat Jan 17 12:15:06 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: YAPC::NA Call for Proposals Message-ID: <20040117181506.GA921@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Hey folks, In case the news hasn't filtered to your groups, the CFP for YAPC::NA::2004 in Buffalo, NY is going on. The CFP is located here: http://www.yapc.org/America/cfp.shtml A new type of "talk" has been added this year, which is a Poster Session, and is explained on the CFP page. The deadline is March 27 for abstratcs. I ask that you pass this info along to your group members, and encourage them to submit abstracts, and attend this years YAPC::NA. Thanks! Cheers, Kevin *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From tim at consultix-inc.com Sun Jan 18 13:59:09 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Help with Vote Interpretation Message-ID: <20040118195909.GA9430@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> SPUGsters, For those who don't know, a controversy has recently erupted (over at use.perl.org) about the results of the vote "for" Perl Certification at OSCON last year. And I'm right in the middle of it! Some have suggested that I misstated the outcome, and I initially thought that position might have had some merit, but now I'm not so sure. That's because the exact phrasing of the question was apparently "how many are for continued discussion, *and* possible development" of a Perl certification program. In pseudo-code, outcome_of_discussion() > $criterion_for_action && do_development() ; >From one angle, it's like voting for having the Joint Chiefs of Perl discuss the pros and cons of War on Java, and possibly go forward with that war. Accepting the process implies acceptance of its possible outcomes, including war -- or not war. That means you're for war (at least, conditionally). But it would be more straightforward to say you're undecided, and delegating the authority for the decision to others. I've also proposed some other interpretations, which might serve to placate the conspiracy theorists. 8-} Please check out http://teachmeperl.com/perlcert/OSCON_vote.html and let me know what you think about what I've written there -- I'd like to get it right this time, to avoid any further "flame-ups" in the Perl community. 8-} TIA, *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From andrew at sweger.net Sun Jan 18 20:40:33 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG Wiki is down Message-ID: Yes, I know it's down. Not sure what I screwed up yet. (So too are nearly all the other Wiki's I host.) -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From tim at consultix-inc.com Sun Jan 18 21:26:12 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG Wiki is down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040119032612.GA13203@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> On Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 06:40:33PM -0800, Andrew Sweger wrote: > Yes, I know it's down. Not sure what I screwed up yet. > > (So too are nearly all the other Wiki's I host.) Great! That means I haven't missed anything by ignoring them today! 8-} > Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several > things can go wrong at once. > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, U-District, Seattle WA > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org -- *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From andrew at sweger.net Mon Jan 19 00:42:53 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Wiki is up, sorta In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It seems an apache upgrade in the last week dramatically changed the way configuration is handled and waited for a logrotate restart to trigger the problem. I've got SpugWiki up and now have to figure out how to get all the other sites I host back up. This is forcing me to start taking care of a much needed config rewrite/reorg. Please bring any SpugWiki problems to my attention (with the exception of CSS issues). On Sun, 18 Jan 2004, Andrew Sweger wrote: > Yes, I know it's down. Not sure what I screwed up yet. > > (So too are nearly all the other Wiki's I host.) -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From cthulhu at yendi.net Mon Jan 19 02:00:44 2004 From: cthulhu at yendi.net (Cthulhu) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: The future of SPUG In-Reply-To: <20040116232200.GA28404@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: Ok folks I don' want to see this go away or drop off to a only in a blue moon kind of thing so has anyone had any ideas on someone picking up the reins? Tim if there are no other folks interestied I might be able to pick up some of the roles of leadership. Cheers, Jim W -----Original Message----- From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Tim Maher Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 3:22 PM To: spug-list@pm.org Subject: SPUG: The future of SPUG SPUGsters, As indicated a few weeks back, I'm relinquishing the reins of SPUG after the 2/17th meeting, which happens to also be the last meeting that SPUG will have at Safeco (unless somebody can round up a new Safeco employee as a sponsor). I hope many of you have found the existence of SPUG to be an asset to your professional careers, as I have. If so, I strongly encourage you to step forward and play a part in keeping it going, because it will be much harder to rekindle the flames of SPUG after a hiatus than it will be to keep it alive. If I'm the only guy who cares enough about SPUG to work to preserve it, then it deserves to die along with my retirement (which by the way is exactly what happened to E-SPUG, the East-side chapter, when "Emperor Ryan" retired). But it would be a shame if SPUG were to die just because well-intentioned individuals never got around to doing anything to avoid that eventuality. It's impossible to overemphasize the fact that the future of SPUG is in your hands. Don't sit on them! -Tim ============================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. tim(AT)teachmeperl.com | | SPUG Founder & Leader spug(AT)teachmeperl.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group http://www.seattleperl.com | | SPUG Wiki Site http://spugwiki.perlocity.org | | Perl Certification Site http://perlcert.perlocity.org | ============================================================== _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, U-District, Seattle WA WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jan 19 02:04:13 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: The future of SPUG In-Reply-To: References: <20040116232200.GA28404@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: <20040119080413.GA16469@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 12:00:44AM -0800, Cthulhu wrote: > Ok folks I don' want to see this go away or drop off to a only in a blue > moon kind of thing so has anyone had any ideas on someone picking up the > reins? > > Tim if there are no other folks interestied I might be able to pick up some > of the roles of leadership. > > Cheers, > Jim W I recommend that those interested in helping SPUG survive my "retirement" as leader should volunteer their services here, and also identify themselves over at the KeepSPUGaLive page at spugwiki.perlocity.org. *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From sthoenna at efn.org Mon Jan 19 02:46:00 2004 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: The future of SPUG In-Reply-To: <20040116232200.GA28404@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> References: <20040116232200.GA28404@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: <20040119084559.GA4072@efn.org> On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 03:22:00PM -0800, Tim Maher wrote: > It's impossible to overemphasize the fact that the future of > SPUG is in your hands. Don't sit on them! Tim, would you post a list of the things you do as SPUG leader and the approximate time commitment each requires? From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jan 19 03:22:20 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: The future of SPUG In-Reply-To: <20040119084559.GA4072@efn.org> References: <20040116232200.GA28404@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> <20040119084559.GA4072@efn.org> Message-ID: <20040119092220.GA17110@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 12:46:00AM -0800, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: > On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 03:22:00PM -0800, Tim Maher wrote: > > It's impossible to overemphasize the fact that the future of > > SPUG is in your hands. Don't sit on them! > > Tim, would you post a list of the things you do as SPUG leader and the > approximate time commitment each requires? Certainly; I was wondering if anybody would get around to asking! I'll plan to get around to it tomorrow. -Tim *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From andrew at sweger.net Mon Jan 19 05:55:40 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: The future of SPUG In-Reply-To: <20040119080413.GA16469@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Tim Maher wrote: > I recommend that those interested in helping SPUG survive my > "retirement" as leader should volunteer their services here, and also > identify themselves over at the KeepSPUGaLive page at > spugwiki.perlocity.org. I have "volunteered" for managing web-sites, Wikis, and mailing lists (and A/V support if needed) on the KeepSPUGaLive page. These are all things I've been doing in some capacity for a while, both in and out of SPUG. As an alternative on finding a SPUG leader by calling for volunteers, is there any sense in calling for nominations? I just wonder if the right leader is already known to us and just needs the appropriate arm-twisting. Is there a way to do it without upsetting or embarrassing anyone? -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From schieb at centurytel.net Tue Jan 20 11:21:33 2004 From: schieb at centurytel.net (Islandman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: test, or "Is there a meeting tonight?" Message-ID: <400D639D.7DDD54DC@centurytel.net> ...I'm not getting any email from SPUG of late. -Brian Schieber From MichaelRWolf at att.net Tue Jan 20 12:35:55 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Big changes Message-ID: SPUGly folks, Count me in. I'll take a _piece_ of the responsibility for a while. I'd been laying off the "Town Crier" role I started last year, but was considering throwing my hat in the ring as a part of the "program committee". When what to my wondering eyes disappeared, but a big SAFECO room, and guy with a beard. Yeah, I know there isn't an official program committee, but I figured it would be helpful, and something I'd enjoy. So, herewith, hereinafter, and herewithall, (and all that which is gobeldy gook and muckety muck) I do commit to being the/a SPUG GOTO Guy as we (collectively -- I can't do this alone) transition from being A World-class Perl Monger Group under the direction of White-Camel award-winner Tim Maher to A World-class Perl Monger Group, self-directed in our playful learning. I guess what I'm saying is I'll be a SPUG GOTO Guy if there's a SPUG GOTO Team. I'm looking to having fun. How would you like to join in? Post here and meet at Safeco tonight. Michael Wolf SPUG GOTO Guy -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From tim at consultix-inc.com Tue Jan 20 15:14:01 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Tonight's Meeting, Intro to Perl Message-ID: <20040120211401.GA29766@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> SPUGsters, Hope to see a lot of you tonight, along with your friends who need an easy intro to Perl. Don't forget to sign up on the Kwiki page if you're planning to eat at Cedars. ============================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. tim(AT)teachmeperl.com | | SPUG Founder & Leader spug(AT)teachmeperl.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group http://www.seattleperl.com | | SPUG Wiki Site http://spugwiki.perlocity.org | | Perl Certification Site http://perlcert.perlocity.org | ============================================================== --------------------------------------------------------- January/February Seattle Perl Users Group Meeting --------------------------------------------------------- Title: "Introduction to Perl", Parts I and II Speaker: Tim Maher, Consultix (timteachmeperl.com) Part I: Tuesday, Jan. 20, 2004 7-9pm --------------------------------------------------------- Who's right about Perl? "Perl is an immensely powerful language, suitable for a wide range of applications, that allows unparalleled freedom of expression and diversity in coding solutions." "Perl is a write-only, line-noise language that encourages programmers to cultivate incompatible idiosyncratic dialects of cryptic symbols, making it difficult for one programmer to understand or maintain programs written by another." Who's right? Both! Perl is indeed a powerful and important language with lots of features and coding options, and it can be difficult to learn and hard to read. /But it doesn't have to be!/ To make Perl *more accessible* and /more acceptable/ to IT departments, Tim Maher has developed a tiny subset of the language called "Minimal Perl" that is easily learned yet sufficient for writing many useful kinds of highly readable programs. For the January 20th SPUG meeting, Tim will provide an "Intro to Perl" for those who've been craving one, that's based on the Minimal Perl dialect. Because this is a beginner's oriented talk, we're especially interested in attracting first-time visitors to SPUG who wouldn't be able to handle the pace of our regular meetings. So please help spread the word to potentially interested parties by forwarding this email to friends and colleagues, and cross-posting it on other mailing lists. Tim will continue his Intro to Perl at the Feb 17th meeting, and if possible, interested parties should try to attend both sessions. -Tim January/February Seattle Perl Users Group Meeting --------------------------------------------------------- Title: "Introduction to Perl", Parts I and II Speaker: Tim Maher, Consultix (timteachmeperl.com) Part I: Tuesday, Jan. 20, 2004 7-9pm Part II: Tuesday, Feb. 17, 2004 7-9pm Location: SAFECO bldg, Brooklyn St. and NE 45th St. Seattle WA USA Cost: Free and open to the general public. More Info: http://seattleperl.org/ --------------------------------------------------------- In these talks, veteran UNIX/Linux/Perl trainer Tim Maher will provide an introduction to the Perl language. The emphasis will be on basic features of Perl, especially ones that are easy to learn for those familiar with the UNIX *grep* command and its relatives, and with fundamental shell programming principles (use of variables, arguments, redirection, etc.). Attendees will learn the *easy way* to write Perl programs that can do "file conversion", "data validation", "report generation", and "number crunching", among other things. Tim's talk will feature excerpts from his upcoming book for Manning Press called "Minimal Perl for Shell Users and Programmers", his commercial Perl training courses, and his past presentations at the LinuxFest Northwest conference, YAPC conferences in the US and Europe, and The Perl Conference. Pre- and Post- Meeting Activities --------------------------------- The pre-meeting dinner will be at the Cedars restaurant, at 50th St. and Brooklyn, in the University District, near the Safeco building where the meeting will take place. The phone number is 527-5247. If you are planning to be there, please enter your name on the Kwiki RSVP page (see spugwiki.perlocity.org) by 2pm on the meeting day. (NOTE: Arrival by 5:45pm is recommended for those ordering food). *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, U-District, Seattle WA WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From tim at consultix-inc.com Tue Jan 20 18:31:25 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Start dinner without me! Message-ID: <20040121003125.GA30796@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> I'm still preparing my handouts for my talk, and will not make it to Cedars. The reservation is for SPUG -- bon appetit! -- *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From MichaelRWolf at att.net Wed Jan 21 00:11:09 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: array(bio) bioinformatic meeting Message-ID: Some folks were asking about array(bio) - the bioinformatic (and biology and business) group I mentioned at tonight's meeting. Here's an announcement of their next meeting, which can be found at http://www.arraybio.org/arraybio_meeting_schedule.htm, and also on the SPUG Wiki at http://spugwiki.perlocity.org/ under Other Geekly Stuff. February 11, 2003 Topic: Managing Mountains of Data -- This presentation will discuss effective tools and techniques for managing and integrating large amounts of disparate data. Format: Panel Time: 6:00 PM to 7:00 PM networking and social/7:00 PM to 9:00 PM presentation Location: Lake Washington Rowing Club (910 N. Northlake Way Seattle; next to the Adobe Building in Fremont) -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From MichaelRWolf at att.net Wed Jan 21 00:13:31 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: ACM SIG-CHI Message-ID: Likewise for the ACM Computer-Human Interface meeting. Anyone interested in carpooling over? ================ Topic: Ecommerce Usability: REI.com User Experience Strategy Speaker: Nicola Harper, Manager, REI.com Time and Date: Thursday, January 22nd, 2004 6pm: Refreshments 7pm-9pm: Presentation Location: Attachmate Software (directions below) Summary: Nicola Harper will share strategy and tactics that help REI's online team achieve business goals through a focus on user experience. Directions to Attachmate >From Seattle or all points West of Lake Washington * Take I-90 East from Seattle. * Take the Richards Road exit (10B). * Proceed straight at end of offramp through signal on 36th St. * Pass Loehman's Plaza and the Attachmate Bldg. * Turn Right onto 131st Ave. SE * Attachmate is on the corner of 131st Ave. SE and SE 36th St. * You can park in the "circle" parking lot in front of the building (2nd driveway on right; there is limited availability in that lot). If the "circle" lot is full, proceed further up the hill until you see the next break in the median and a parking lot to the left. You can park here as well, then walk back down the hill to the "circle" lot entrance to the building. -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From schieb at centurytel.net Wed Jan 21 13:34:15 2004 From: schieb at centurytel.net (Islandman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: More perl... alpaca book Message-ID: <400ED437.6D50085B@centurytel.net> In last night's meeting Tim mentioned the "More Perl..." book by Randall. I didn't see it in BN.com or Amazon.com. Is it out? Where can I pick one up? Thanks! -Brian Schieber Vashon From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Jan 21 13:45:34 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: More perl... alpaca book In-Reply-To: <400ED437.6D50085B@centurytel.net> References: <400ED437.6D50085B@centurytel.net> Message-ID: <20040121194534.GA5232@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 11:34:15AM -0800, Islandman wrote: > In last night's meeting Tim mentioned the "More Perl..." book by > Randall. I didn't see it in BN.com or Amazon.com. Is it out? Where can I > pick one up? I never heard of a book by that name. Maybe you mean "Learning Perl", aka the Llama book? That's the one I showed a photo of. > > Thanks! > -Brian Schieber > Vashon *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From schieb at centurytel.net Wed Jan 21 14:02:25 2004 From: schieb at centurytel.net (Islandman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: More perl... alpaca book References: <400ED437.6D50085B@centurytel.net> <20040121194534.GA5232@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: <400EDAD1.C3358C88@centurytel.net> Tim Maher wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 11:34:15AM -0800, Islandman wrote: > > In last night's meeting Tim mentioned the "More Perl..." book by > > Randall. I didn't see it in BN.com or Amazon.com. Is it out? Where can I > > pick one up? > > I never heard of a book by that name. Maybe you mean "Learning Perl", > aka the Llama book? That's the one I showed a photo of. > > > > > Thanks! > > -Brian Schieber > > Vashon > > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | > | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | > *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* > | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* Sorry Tim, I must have misunderstood what you called the title. Pat had it right: If you're talking about Randall's new Alapaca book, it's "Learning Perl References, Modules & Objects" -pate Pat Eyler Kaitiaki/manager migrant Linux sys admin the Koha project ruby, shell, and perl geek http://www.koha.org http://pate.eylerfamily.org -Brian From MichaelRWolf at att.net Wed Jan 21 15:08:25 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: More perl... alpaca book In-Reply-To: <400EDAD1.C3358C88@centurytel.net> (schieb@centurytel.net's message of "Wed, 21 Jan 2004 12:02:25 -0800") References: <400ED437.6D50085B@centurytel.net> <20040121194534.GA5232@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> <400EDAD1.C3358C88@centurytel.net> Message-ID: Islandman writes: [...] > Sorry Tim, I must have misunderstood what you called the title. Pat had > it right: > > If you're talking about Randall's new Alapaca book, it's "Learning Perl > References, Modules & Objects" Randal (one "L") held a release party for the alpaca book at OSCON last year, and featured a few alpacas as guests until they were whisked away in a trailer, Perl Paparazzi in tow. The Llama book http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lperl3/index.html The Camel book http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pperl3/index.html The Alpaca book http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lrnperlorm/index.html -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From MichaelRWolf at att.net Wed Jan 21 21:31:03 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: array(bio) bioinformatic meeting In-Reply-To: <1074708215.5394.9.camel@localhost> (N. King's message of "21 Jan 2004 13:03:35 -0500") References: <1074708215.5394.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: N King writes: > Hi, looks like the meeting happened last year... -Nichole Oops. My bad. Thanks for the catch. It *was* a good program, too. I heard from the leader of the group to expect news soon, so I didn't even check the dates before cut/paste (or in emacs-lingo kill-yank). Sorry. Check back soon -- it's an every-other month meeting, so expect a Feb meeting. -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From lmzaldivar at mac.com Thu Jan 22 11:12:09 2004 From: lmzaldivar at mac.com (Luis Medrano) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Open big files Message-ID: <11199741.1074791529877.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> List, I have a question I need to open a files between 5 and 35 megs and work with those files but my question is how can I open the files using the min amount of memory??.. Thanks, Luis From lmzaldivar at mac.com Thu Jan 22 11:14:05 2004 From: lmzaldivar at mac.com (Luis Medrano) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser Message-ID: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> List, I have a question I would like to show the progress on the CGI on the browser for example 10%, 20% 40% of complision. or something like that...Any one knows how I can do this??.. Thanks, Luis From douglas at slugstone.net Thu Jan 22 11:33:08 2004 From: douglas at slugstone.net (Douglas Kirkland) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser In-Reply-To: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> References: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: <200401220933.09895.douglas@slugstone.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 22 January 2004 09:14, Luis Medrano wrote: > List, > > I have a question I would like to show the progress on the CGI on the browser for example 10%, 20% 40% of complision. or something like that...Any one knows how I can do this??.. I do not know how this can be done. Most site that show how much is done do it by cheating. They will take a good guess on how long it will take and display that information. Douglas -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAEAlUSpWn8R0Z08URArpBAJ9uD9skkXULEhcRMZ1DFCbXuge9pACeKzzb hrRXMDUvYMi1Ikw5K6kuzV0= =5TQ3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jay at scherrer.com Thu Jan 22 11:52:53 2004 From: jay at scherrer.com (Jay Scherrer) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Retirement Message-ID: <200401220952.53121.jay@scherrer.com> Tim, I just wanted to link you and other SPUGERs to another great Perl program called SMTM. It'll help you into retirement (maybe) :-) It's a Perl/Tk global stock ticker program. "Show Me The Money" written by Dirk Eddelbuettel. Jay From dan at concolor.org Thu Jan 22 12:13:49 2004 From: dan at concolor.org (dan@concolor.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser In-Reply-To: <200401220933.09895.douglas@slugstone.net> References: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> <200401220933.09895.douglas@slugstone.net> Message-ID: <20040122181349.GC8555@kell.fairehosting.com> On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 09:33:08AM -0800, Douglas Kirkland wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Thursday 22 January 2004 09:14, Luis Medrano wrote: > > List, > > > > I have a question I would like to show the progress on the CGI on the > browser for example 10%, 20% 40% of complision. or something like that...Any > one knows how I can do this??.. > > > I do not know how this can be done. Most site that show how much is done do > it by cheating. They will take a good guess on how long it will take and > display that information. It occurs to me that you might be able to hold the http connection open and feed the data through at a very slow rate. Perhaps along the lines of a dot every second or so. This might cause problems with some browsers timing out on the connection. Another method I've actually seen is to use the refresh meta tag and base it on a guesstamate of how long it should take. -dan From tim at consultix-inc.com Thu Jan 22 12:40:43 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Open big files In-Reply-To: <11199741.1074791529877.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> References: <11199741.1074791529877.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: <20040122184043.GA15127@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 09:12:09AM -0800, Luis Medrano wrote: > List, > > I have a question I need to open a files between 5 and 35 megs > and work with those files but my question is how can I open the > files using the min amount of memory??.. > > Thanks, > Luis If the processing you need to do allows it, just read the lines one at a time, in a loop -- then you'll only have one line's worth of memory in use at any time. If you need to actually have access to the files as if they were in memory (without paying the price for really storing them there), you could use the Tie::File module: http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/lib/Tie/File.html Have fun! *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From tim at consultix-inc.com Thu Jan 22 12:44:30 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Handling big files Message-ID: <20040122184430.GA15162@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> > > I have a question I need to open a files between 5 and 35 megs > and work with those files but my question is how can I open the > files using the min amount of memory??.. > > Thanks, > Luis If the processing you need to do allows it, just read the lines one at a time, in a loop -- then you'll only have one line's worth of memory in use at any time. If you need to actually have access to the files as if they were in memory (without paying the price for really storing them there), you could use the Tie::File module: http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/lib/Tie/File.html Have fun! *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From wnorth at state.mt.us Thu Jan 22 13:32:09 2004 From: wnorth at state.mt.us (North, Walter) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Asset Management Message-ID: Hi all, We are looking for what I think would be named an asset management tool. ( GPL liscensed ) At any rate it would contain information about hardware, OS, and other information we currently collect, along with such more or less static information like system name, function, location etc. Currently we have several files with this info that need updating every time we add/change/dump a server and would like to consolidate this into a single location, like say a Mysql DB with a web front end to display and update etc the information. We could roll our own, but if there is already a useable tool out there then we would rather save ourselves the time and effort and use it. So are there any recommendations? thanks ----------------------------------------------------- Walter North 406-444-2914 Operating Systems Programmer wnorth (at) state (dot) mt (dot) us Windows NT crashed. The Blue Screen of Death. No one hears your screams. ----------------------------------------------------- From joshlanza at hotmail.com Thu Jan 22 14:06:43 2004 From: joshlanza at hotmail.com (Joshua Lanza) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser References: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com><200401220933.09895.douglas@slugstone.net> <20040122181349.GC8555@kell.fairehosting.com> Message-ID: I've never had to do this, but I assume that sites like expedia use some sort of refresh (meta tags or otherwise). On each refresh, the page checks the long-running process's status, and returns HTML that says "still processing" or gives the results of the process, depending on status. This is probably the most cross-platform approach. You could also expose a web service that returns process status based on the browser's session. Depending on which browsers you need to support, you could use something like XmlHttp in MsXml, which supports async web service calls from the browser. Another approach that occurs to me it to put the progress into a frame and have it refresh, then notify the other frame(s) when the process is finished. A little JavaScript involved there. The first approach is probably the best. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: Re: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser > On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 09:33:08AM -0800, Douglas Kirkland wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Thursday 22 January 2004 09:14, Luis Medrano wrote: > > > List, > > > > > > I have a question I would like to show the progress on the CGI on the > > browser for example 10%, 20% 40% of complision. or something like that...Any > > one knows how I can do this??.. > > > > > > I do not know how this can be done. Most site that show how much is done do > > it by cheating. They will take a good guess on how long it will take and > > display that information. > > It occurs to me that you might be able to hold the http connection open > and feed the data through at a very slow rate. Perhaps along the lines > of a dot every second or so. This might cause problems > with some browsers timing out on the connection. > > Another method I've actually seen is to use the refresh meta tag and > base it on a guesstamate of how long it should take. > > -dan From moonbeam at catmanor.com Thu Jan 22 14:39:24 2004 From: moonbeam at catmanor.com (William Julien) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser Message-ID: <200401222039.i0MKdOsq014921@catmanor.com> > >List, > >I have a question I would like to show the progress on the CGI on the browser for example 10%, 20% 40% of complision. or something like that...Any one knows how I can do this??.. You can do this with an "nph" script. Here is a "hello world" #!/usr/bin/perl # # this is a demonstration of server push # # enable autoflush $| = 1; # send the http header to establish the boundry print "HTTP/1.0 200\n"; print "Content-type: multipart/x-mixed-replace; boundary=ThisRandomString\n\n" ; # start the first boundry print "--ThisRandomString\n"; # loop 10 times $i = 0; while ($i < 10) { $i++; print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; print "This is run $i\n"; print "

This is run $i

\n"; print "--ThisRandomString\n"; sleep 2; } # send the last page print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; print "Fin\n"; print "

Fin

\n"; print "--ThisRandomString--\n"; exit 0; > >Thanks, >Luis No problem William > >_____________________________________________________________ >Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List >POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org >ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list >MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, U-District, Seattle WA >WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > From m3047 at inwa.net Thu Jan 22 18:55:06 2004 From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser Message-ID: At 10:13 AM 1/22/04, dan@concolor.org wrote: >On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 09:33:08AM -0800, Douglas Kirkland wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On Thursday 22 January 2004 09:14, Luis Medrano wrote: >> > List, >> > >> > I have a question I would like to show the progress on the CGI on the >> browser for example 10%, 20% 40% of complision. or something like that...Any >> one knows how I can do this??.. >> >> >> I do not know how this can be done. Most site that show how much is done do >> it by cheating. They will take a good guess on how long it will take and >> display that information. > >It occurs to me that you might be able to hold the http connection open >and feed the data through at a very slow rate. Perhaps along the lines >of a dot every second or so. This might cause problems >with some browsers timing out on the connection. Take a look at http://www.graysoft.com/c/winnt/system32/cmd.exe which does exactly that. ;-) (Yes, it's written in Perl, and I've used as similar approach to show the progress of browser-instigated tar operations for instance.) >Another method I've actually seen is to use the refresh meta tag and >base it on a guesstamate of how long it should take. You could do that, or you could use JavaScript on a timer which causes a reload every so often. -- Fred Morris fredm3047@inwa.net (I-ACK) From tim at consultix-inc.com Fri Jan 23 01:18:28 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Mtg slides on-line now Message-ID: <20040123071828.GA29480@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> The new, improved slides from my 1/20/04 talk on "Minimal Perl" are now available at http://teachmeperl.com/publications/slides.html, toward the bottom of the page. Enjoy 8-} -Tim *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From sthoenna at efn.org Fri Jan 23 07:02:48 2004 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Open big files In-Reply-To: <11199741.1074791529877.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> References: <11199741.1074791529877.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: <20040123130248.GA3872@efn.org> On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 09:12:09AM -0800, Luis Medrano wrote: > List, > > I have a question I need to open a files between 5 and 35 megs and work with those files but my question is how can I open the files using the min amount of memory??.. Opening the files won't consume significant memory. It's how you read them that matters. If they are text files and you only need to work with one line at a time, just make sure you use a loop like: while () { # process line in $_ } instead of for () { } or @lines = If these are binary files, or you need information from more than one line at a time, you'll need to more fully describe what you are trying to do in order to get more help. From sthoenna at efn.org Fri Jan 23 07:07:59 2004 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser In-Reply-To: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> References: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: <20040123130759.GB3872@efn.org> On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 09:14:05AM -0800, Luis Medrano wrote: > List, > > I have a question I would like to show the progress on the CGI on the browser for example 10%, 20% 40% of complision. or something like that...Any one knows how I can do this??.. I haven't used it, but there's a CGI::ProgressBar on CPAN. From andrew at sweger.net Fri Jan 23 08:21:14 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: New Meeting Location!!!! Message-ID: Help find a new meeting location for SPUG. SPUG's last meeting at the Safeco Tower in the University District will be Tuesday, 17 February next month. That gives us just under eight weeks to find a new location. In honor of the fact that no one person will have all the answers, I have put up a page on the SpugWiki to help gather information on potential locations and monitor progress. As with most Wikis, it's up to everyone to make it work. Perhaps you know of some possible locations, but you don't have the time or feel comfortable talking to those organizations. Maybe you have fabulous social skills but have no idea who to talk to. Go to the PotentialMeetingLocations SpugWiki page and have at it, gang. http://spugwiki.perlocity.org/index.cgi?PotentialMeetingLocations -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From schieb at centurytel.net Fri Jan 23 15:20:28 2004 From: schieb at centurytel.net (Islandman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: New Meeting Location!!!! References: Message-ID: <4011901C.D0310295@centurytel.net> Andrew Sweger wrote: > > Help find a new meeting location for SPUG. SPUG's last meeting at the > Safeco Tower in the University District will be Tuesday, 17 February next > month. That gives us just under eight weeks to find a new location. > > In honor of the fact that no one person will have all the answers, I have > put up a page on the SpugWiki to help gather information on potential > locations and monitor progress. As with most Wikis, it's up to everyone to > make it work. Perhaps you know of some possible locations, but you don't > have the time or feel comfortable talking to those organizations. Maybe > you have fabulous social skills but have no idea who to talk to. Go to the > PotentialMeetingLocations SpugWiki page and have at it, gang. > > http://spugwiki.perlocity.org/index.cgi?PotentialMeetingLocations Curious, why did we rule out libraries? Many of them have meeting rooms. Are they all full? -Brian Schieber Vashon, WA > > -- > Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several > things can go wrong at once. > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, U-District, Seattle WA > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From andrew at sweger.net Fri Jan 23 17:56:25 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: New Meeting Location!!!! In-Reply-To: <4011901C.D0310295@centurytel.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Islandman wrote: > Curious, why did we rule out libraries? Many of them have meeting rooms. > Are they all full? Who said anything about ruling them out? Is this from another context (a conversation perhaps)? In the past, we have avoided seeking out libraries because we wanted a regular monthly schedule and libraries did not permit advance booking of rooms. Jim (Cthulhu) reported at the meeting that libraries are now permitting established public organizations to book meeting rooms in advance. Get the details on the Wiki. Details, folks. Just the facts, y'all. -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From MichaelRWolf at att.net Fri Jan 23 18:44:00 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: ActiveState Perl Haiku Poetry Contest In-Reply-To: <39B5739894E97B40A427C59317BF2CD38791AD@exchange2k.fcul.com> (Phillip Tyre's message of "Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:41:09 -0500") References: <39B5739894E97B40A427C59317BF2CD38791AD@exchange2k.fcul.com> Message-ID: Someone mentined more Perl Haiku at the meeting earlier this week. Wow, what premonition!!!! Here's a message I just found in another PM group. Haiku away -- contest closes Feb 10. "Phillip Tyre" writes: > http://activestate.com/Corporate/PerlHaiku/ > > > > Not a joke, but could have been! > > > > pt > > > _______________________________________________ > Tallahassee-pm mailing list > Tallahassee-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/tallahassee-pm Now, in the "it's so absurd, you can't make this stuff up" category -- there are over 600 words of legalese (aka contest rules), and 0 (that's right zero) words defining what a haiku is. :-) General conditions -- The Contest begins on January 20, 2004 and the winner will be selected on February 10, 2004. No purchase necessary. It doesn't even say that it's gotta be a haiku. :-) Can you tell that I'm in a "spec writing" phase? -- you gotta be sooooo specific. -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From MichaelRWolf at att.net Fri Jan 23 18:56:04 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl poetry anyone? Message-ID: I've announced a regional SPUG Haiku contest to choose a regionally supported winner to support us at the ActiveState Haiku Poetry Contest. See my (significantly shorter) official rules on the Wiki http://spugwiki.perlocity.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org/index.cgi?PerlHaiku -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From MichaelRWolf at att.net Fri Jan 23 18:59:08 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Asset Management In-Reply-To: (Walter North's message of "Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:32:09 -0700") References: Message-ID: "North, Walter" writes: [...] > ----------------------------------------------------- > Walter North 406-444-2914 > Operating Systems Programmer > wnorth (at) state (dot) mt (dot) us > > Windows NT crashed. > The Blue Screen of Death. > No one hears your screams. > > ----------------------------------------------------- I guess Haiku is more prevelant than I thought.... -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From MichaelRWolf at att.net Fri Jan 23 19:08:51 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser In-Reply-To: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> (Luis Medrano's message of "Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:14:05 -0800") References: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: Luis Medrano writes: > List, > > I have a question I would like to show the progress on the CGI on the > browser for example 10%, 20% 40% of complision. or something like > that...Any one knows how I can do this??.. I remember Damian talking about some progress bars. Anyone remember them? Perhaps it was in ~damian/bin -- not a Perl-ish answer. Anyone know where to get a tarball of ~damian/bin? I know he didn't have it ready when he spoke about it at SPUG, but it got cooked (for some definition of cooked) for his OSCON gig. -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From jsl at blarg.net Fri Jan 23 19:11:46 2004 From: jsl at blarg.net (Jim Ludwig) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Asset Management In-Reply-To: (MichaelRWolf@att.net) Message-ID: Michael R. Wolf wrote: >> > Windows NT crashed. >> > The Blue Screen of Death. >> > No one hears your screams. >> > >> > ----------------------------------------------------- >> >> I guess Haiku is more prevelant than I >> thought.... Just remember that a haiku is 5-7-5 (not 5-5-5). jim From MichaelRWolf at att.net Fri Jan 23 19:18:56 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl Developer Gig In-Reply-To: <20040116180331.GA26422@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> (Tim Maher's message of "Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:03:31 -0800") References: <20040116180331.GA26422@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: Tim Maher writes: > Hi there, > I'd like to provide the following job for your users. > Thanks very much. > > *MUST KNOW: > * Perl > * Perl script What is Perl script? Is Perl script as unrelated to Perl as JavaScript is to Java? I'm really 1/2 serious about the question, and 1/2 poking fun. Is it a confused job req up or another technology (making *me* the one that's confused)? I'd heard about a Perl equivalent of JavaScript that didn't catch on. Is this it? If not, what was that browser-embedded Perl thing called, and how's it doing? -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From tim at consultix-inc.com Fri Jan 23 19:24:58 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl Developer Gig In-Reply-To: References: <20040116180331.GA26422@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: <20040124012458.GA12868@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 05:18:56PM -0800, Michael R. Wolf wrote: > Tim Maher writes: > > > Hi there, > > I'd like to provide the following job for your users. > > Thanks very much. > > > > *MUST KNOW: > > * Perl > > * Perl script > > What is Perl script? > > Is Perl script as unrelated to Perl as JavaScript is to Java? > I'm really 1/2 serious about the question, and 1/2 poking fun. Is it a > confused job req up or another technology (making *me* the one that's > confused)? IANAHH (head-hunter), so I'm sure I don't know 8-} *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From ua at pobox.com Fri Jan 23 19:40:09 2004 From: ua at pobox.com (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:14 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser In-Reply-To: References: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: <3E683CBA-4E0E-11D8-8467-000A95C466EC@pobox.com> Luis Medrano writes: > I have a question I would like to show the progress on the CGI on the > browser for example 10%, 20% 40% of complision. or something like > that...Any one knows how I can do this??.. Randal Schwartz demonstrated one way to handle this in an 1997 Web Techniques column: http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col20.html To be sure, I much prefer the NPH solution previously posted. Still, those who do not know their history are doomed to relive it - or possibly reinvent it. :-) -Joshua From spud at spudzeppelin.com Fri Jan 23 21:37:44 2004 From: spud at spudzeppelin.com (Jeff Almeida) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl Developer Gig In-Reply-To: References: <20040116180331.GA26422@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: <20040124033744.GA25583@brighton.offwhite.net> Also Sprach Michael R. Wolf: >> *MUST KNOW: >> * Perl >> * Perl script >What is Perl script? >I'd heard about a Perl equivalent of JavaScript that didn't catch on. >Is this it? If not, what was that browser-embedded Perl thing called, >and how's it doing? That would be the animal... more properly "PerlScript" though not just on the client; just like there was a fetish about five years ago for what the then-Netscape "LiveConnect" people used to call "Server-Side JavaScript", there was also a movement to do ASP pages with PerlScript -- I believe it even used the same (on that OS from the EastSide) .dll-based Perl interpreter that its browser-ish cousin did. IIRC, the whole exercise was the product of a long Norwegian winter, and about as well-received. More likely (having worked with a nontrivial number of recruiter-types in my days developing HR applications), what they want is someone who can do shell-like scripting in Perl, much like the topic of one of Tim's talks. cheers, jeff :) -- ************************************************************ Jeff D. "Spud (Zeppelin)" Almeida Corinth, TX spud@spudzeppelin.com From namosi at whitties.org Sat Jan 24 03:09:44 2004 From: namosi at whitties.org (Dora Choi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's here: http://www.yetanother.org/damian/bintools.tar.gz On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Michael R. Wolf wrote: > I remember Damian talking about some progress bars. Anyone remember > them? > > Perhaps it was in ~damian/bin -- not a Perl-ish answer. > > Anyone know where to get a tarball of ~damian/bin? I know he didn't > have it ready when he spoke about it at SPUG, but it got cooked (for > some definition of cooked) for his OSCON gig. > > -- > Michael R. Wolf > All mammals learn by playing! > MichaelRWolf@att.net > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, U-District, Seattle WA > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > From warner at oz.net Fri Jan 23 19:31:47 2004 From: warner at oz.net (Marion Scott Warner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: New Meeting Location!!!! Message-ID: <4011CB03.AA0BB9A6@oz.net> I went to this meeting the other night of an organization called "Rescue American Jobs". They use one of the conference rooms in the Bellevue Public Library on an ongoing monthly basis. Not all of the rooms were occupied, so I'm sure there is space available. On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Islandman wrote: > Curious, why did we rule out libraries? Many of them have meeting rooms. > Are they all full? Who said anything about ruling them out? Is this from another context (a conversation perhaps)? In the past, we have avoided seeking out libraries because we wanted a regular monthly schedule and libraries did not permit advance booking of rooms. Jim (Cthulhu) reported at the meeting that libraries are now permitting established public organizations to book meeting rooms in advance. Get the details on the Wiki. Details, folks. Just the facts, y'all. -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, U-District, Seattle WA WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From thasone at yahoo.com Sat Jan 24 21:43:09 2004 From: thasone at yahoo.com (gest) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: animated gif ... showing progress in browser Message-ID: <20040125034309.31811.qmail@web21003.mail.yahoo.com> Animated gif showing progress, you can do it like that. Not exact, but it works, keeps the user occupied while they wait. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From kenslinux at shaw.ca Sun Jan 25 05:32:33 2004 From: kenslinux at shaw.ca (Ken Clarke) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser References: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> <3E683CBA-4E0E-11D8-8467-000A95C466EC@pobox.com> Message-ID: <002a01c3e336$ecdab080$0e446d18@gv.shawcable.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Keroes" To: "spug-list" Sent: January 23, 2004 5:40 PM Subject: Re: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser > > To be sure, I much prefer the NPH solution previously posted. Still, > those who do not know their history are doomed to relive it - or > possibly reinvent it. :-) > > -Joshua In this case, unfortunately, we are doomed. William's server push solution revisits the problem that Internet Explorer doesn't support it. I too thought this solution looked interesting so I played around with it a bit this evening (not knowing my history :). Unfortunately, Internet Explorer doesn't support the x-mixed-replace mime type. It simply renders all content blocks one after the other, including the boundary string and block content header. See for yourself at: http://perlprogrammer.net/cgi-bin/nph-progressbar.cgi Sure looks sweet in some of the other browsers doesn't it? A quick google on "x-mixed-replace" will show that IE has never supported server push in this fashion. >> Ken Clarke >> Web Programmer / E-commerce Technologist From ua at pobox.com Sun Jan 25 12:00:05 2004 From: ua at pobox.com (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Showing progress in the browser In-Reply-To: <002a01c3e336$ecdab080$0e446d18@gv.shawcable.net> References: <9619006.1074791645361.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> <3E683CBA-4E0E-11D8-8467-000A95C466EC@pobox.com> <002a01c3e336$ecdab080$0e446d18@gv.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <4E52C066-4F60-11D8-8467-000A95C466EC@pobox.com> On Jan 25, 2004, at 3:32 AM, Ken Clarke wrote: >> To be sure, I much prefer the NPH solution previously posted. Still, >> those who do not know their history are doomed to relive it - or >> possibly reinvent it. :-) > > In this case, unfortunately, we are doomed. William's server push > solution > revisits the problem that Internet Explorer doesn't support it. > http://perlprogrammer.net/cgi-bin/nph-progressbar.cgi Sure looks > sweet in > some of the other browsers doesn't it? I gave it the old college try, too. Results: Safari OSX: downloads the CGI to disk. Ugh. Explorer OSX: Displays Run 1; Run 3; Run 5; Run 7 then stops at 7. Ew. Camino OSX (A Moz fork): works perfectly. Ooh, pretty. -Joshua From davidinnes at chicagoscience.com Mon Jan 26 13:20:56 2004 From: davidinnes at chicagoscience.com (David Innes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: PerlScript (was RE: SPUG: Perl Developer Gig) In-Reply-To: <20040124033744.GA25583@brighton.offwhite.net> Message-ID: <018001c3e441$8c16d6a0$587e5e40@delta> The recruiter's probably talking about ActiveState's PerlScript, not generic "perl script." (Otherwise I agree distinguishing Perl vs. perl script doesn't make much sense.) "PerlScript is an ActiveX scripting engine that allows you to use Perl with any ActiveX scripting host. At this time, ActiveX scripting hosts include: Internet Information Server 3.0/4.0/5.0 Peer Web Services 3.0/4.0 Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.0x Windows Scripting Host" It's part of the default ActiveState installation. I use it all the time in web programming. I played around with it some for command-line Windows Scripting Host script eng but it's usually easier to write straight perl and grab objects with Win32::OLE. The syntax after that is about the same. There are so few Perl installations in my typical customer base that I haven't bothered writing any client-side browser scripts. -- David Innes -----Original Message----- From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Almeida Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 7:38 PM To: spug-list@mail.pm.org Cc: Michael R. Wolf Subject: Re: SPUG: Perl Developer Gig Also Sprach Michael R. Wolf: >> *MUST KNOW: >> * Perl >> * Perl script >What is Perl script? >I'd heard about a Perl equivalent of JavaScript that didn't catch on. >Is this it? If not, what was that browser-embedded Perl thing called, >and how's it doing? That would be the animal... more properly "PerlScript" though not just on the client; just like there was a fetish about five years ago for what the then-Netscape "LiveConnect" people used to call "Server-Side JavaScript", there was also a movement to do ASP pages with PerlScript -- I believe it even used the same (on that OS from the EastSide) .dll-based Perl interpreter that its browser-ish cousin did. IIRC, the whole exercise was the product of a long Norwegian winter, and about as well-received. More likely (having worked with a nontrivial number of recruiter-types in my days developing HR applications), what they want is someone who can do shell-like scripting in Perl, much like the topic of one of Tim's talks. cheers, jeff :) -- ************************************************************ Jeff D. "Spud (Zeppelin)" Almeida Corinth, TX spud@spudzeppelin.com _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, U-District, Seattle WA WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From adamm at wazamatta.com Tue Jan 27 02:34:55 2004 From: adamm at wazamatta.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: orkut Message-ID: <20040127083455.GB13245@pepsi.corp.cmates.com> I noticed an Orkut announcement on Ask Bj??rn Hanse's Web site: http://www.askbjoernhansen.com/archives/2004/01/24/000598.html Any SPUGgers on there? Send out some invites! (Orkut is invite-only) -- Adam Monsen From andrew at sweger.net Tue Jan 27 06:17:29 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: orkut In-Reply-To: <20040127083455.GB13245@pepsi.corp.cmates.com> Message-ID: Orkut was kut [sic] down by its own popularity and some serious weaknesses in its design and operation. Most notably, it was trivial to send messages to *all* of the users on the system rather than limiting it to a group of your acknowledged friends. The site is down while the Orkut team incorporates the many suggestions for improvements made by users so far. Yes, there are a few SPUGgers on there. On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Adam Monsen wrote: > I noticed an Orkut announcement on Ask Bj??rn Hanse's Web site: > http://www.askbjoernhansen.com/archives/2004/01/24/000598.html > > Any SPUGgers on there? Send out some invites! (Orkut is invite-only) > > -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From JayeLill at earthlink.net Tue Jan 27 19:21:40 2004 From: JayeLill at earthlink.net (Jaye Lill) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: (job offered) Java SDET - White Box Engineer Message-ID: <001a01c3e53d$1f12aff0$c6c84b43@Jaye2003> If you are interested in this, or know someone who is, please send resume and I will pass it on (forwards OK, no recruiters) Be sure job title is in subject line. JLill@careerdev.info Pay Rates are Competitive per position. Looking for Sr. Level Candidates - 5+ years experience (with more than 1 year at a Company) Candidates who have built Products that have been sold (multiple revisions of Products). Java SDET - White Box Engineer - Software Development Engineer /Test Lead (SDET) primarily will be responsible for writing white-box tests for server side components. * This position requires 2-5 as a SDET. * Must have experience with Java, C# and .NET. * Qualified candidates must have previous experience writing test harness for enterprise software. * Background in developing custom tools, harnesses and automation framework is a must Candidate must have extensive technical knowledge in all phases of software development. * Must have excellent written and verbal and communication skills and Specific Skills/knowledge required: * Writing test suites from engineering product requirement documents, Develop automated tests based on written test cases, Design and implement automated test cases with QA test tools, * Must have experience with testing and regression testing tracking with configuration management tool. * Required Skills: . Java, . J2EE, . .Net . ANT, . Test Tools, . 2- 5 years full life-cycle development experience Jaye Lill For more resources on promoting your services and skills: see - www.careerdev.info subscribe - (send blank email to) careerdev-subscribe@smartgroups.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/spug-list/attachments/20040127/aa5ff818/attachment.htm From JayeLill at earthlink.net Tue Jan 27 19:21:40 2004 From: JayeLill at earthlink.net (Jaye Lill) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: (job offered) Server Side Java Developer Message-ID: <001501c3e53d$18b644f0$c6c84b43@Jaye2003> If you are interested in this, or know someone who is, please send resume and I will pass it on (forwards OK, no recruiters) Be sure job title is in subject line. JLill@careerdev.info Pay Rates are Competitive per position. Looking for Sr. Level Candidates - 5+ years experience (with more than 1 year at a Company) Candidates who have built Products that have been sold (multiple revisions of Products). Server Side Java Developer - * This Software Engineer Developer Sr. will primarily be responsible for developing key infrastructure components. * Qualified candidates must have previous experience building medium to large-scale, "mission critical" production systems that directly support essential business or technical functions. * Candidate must have extensive technical knowledge in all phases of software development (requirements gathering/writing, code reviews, test plans and unit tests). * Candidates must understand and adhere to development best practices such as, SEIs CMM level 3, RUP or DFSS. * Must have excellent written and verbal and communication skills. * Software Configuration Management, Requirements Gathering and, Defect and Change Tracking Tools * Unified Modeling Language (UML), Model Driven Architecture (MDA) . Java, . J2EE, . JavaScript . SQL. . BS/BA, . 5+ years full life-cycle development experience with Java. Jaye Lill For more resources on promoting your services and skills: see - www.careerdev.info subscribe - (send blank email to) careerdev-subscribe@smartgroups.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/spug-list/attachments/20040127/4540e884/attachment.htm From JayeLill at earthlink.net Tue Jan 27 19:21:40 2004 From: JayeLill at earthlink.net (Jaye Lill) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: (job offered) .NET Software Engineer - Client Side Message-ID: <002401c3e53d$20168b60$c6c84b43@Jaye2003> If you are interested in this, or know someone who is, please send resume and I will pass it on (forwards OK, no recruiters) Be sure job title is in subject line. JLill@careerdev.info Pay Rates are Competitive per position. Looking for Sr. Level Candidates - 5+ years experience (with more than 1 year at a Company) Candidates who have built Products that have been sold (multiple revisions of Products). .NET Software Engineer - Client Side Software Engineer Developer Sr. will primarily be responsible for developing key .net client controls. * Qualified candidates must have previous experience building client side controls in Java or C++ for a . medium to large-scale, "mission critical" production system. * Candidate must have extensive technical knowledge in all phases of software development. * Candidates must understand and adhere to development best practices such as, SEIs CMM level 3, RUP or DFSS. * Must have excellent written and verbal and communication skills. * N-Tier system knowledge, Software Configuration Management, Requirements Gathering and, Defect and Change Tracking Tools * Unified Modeling Language (UML), Model Driven Architecture (MDA) Required Skills: . Java, . J2EE, . C++ . C# . Caching XML . Delegates and Collection Classes Jaye Lill For more resources on promoting your services and skills: see - www.careerdev.info subscribe - (send blank email to) careerdev-subscribe@smartgroups.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/spug-list/attachments/20040127/5f2ece03/attachment.htm From JayeLill at earthlink.net Tue Jan 27 19:21:40 2004 From: JayeLill at earthlink.net (Jaye Lill) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: (job offered) Black Box Test Engineer Message-ID: <001f01c3e53d$1f95c2a0$c6c84b43@Jaye2003> If you are interested in this, or know someone who is, please send resume and I will pass it on (forwards OK, no recruiters) Be sure job title is in subject line. JLill@careerdev.info Black Box Test Engineer - * Qualified Black Box Test Engineer will be responsible for Quality Assurance of Client Side .net controls in C++ or Java in medium to large scale "mission critical" production system. * Candidate must have extensive experience in all phases of QA lifecycle. * Candidate must have experience around an N-Tier System, .NET, C#, XML, SQL Server, Application Development Environment. * Experience writing test plans, executing test cases, and logging bugs in a tracking system. * SQL Coding Experience Required. * Required Skills: * QA Engineer in Client Server Application Development Environment * Experience in Production "mission critical" system * SQL Coding Skills Jaye Lill For more resources on promoting your services and skills: see - www.careerdev.info subscribe - (send blank email to) careerdev-subscribe@smartgroups.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/spug-list/attachments/20040127/feceda65/attachment.htm From JayeLill at earthlink.net Tue Jan 27 19:21:40 2004 From: JayeLill at earthlink.net (Jaye Lill) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: (Job offered) Software Technical Program Managers Message-ID: <002901c3e53d$20bb08c0$c6c84b43@Jaye2003> If you are interested in this, or know someone who is, please send resume and I will pass it on (forwards OK, no recruiters) Be sure job title is in subject line. JLill@careerdev.info Pay Rates are Competitive per position. Looking for Sr. Level Candidates - 5+ years experience (with more than 1 year at a Company) Candidates who have built Products that have been sold (multiple revisions of Products). Technical Program Managers - * Managing Technical Projects according to Methodology and Program Standards. * Manage Triple Constraints (time, cost, and quality) * Project risk analysis, assessment, planning, and interfacing with all levels of Management. * Full LifeCycle development and successfully released a large scale software application for end user use. * Must be able to accurately scope a project, give technical and non-technical status to Management. * Skills: Professional Management Professional (PMP) or PMI Certification preferred. * 3 years Experience in Product development and software engineering environments (RUP or Development Methodology) Jaye Lill For more resources on promoting your services and skills: see - www.careerdev.info subscribe - (send blank email to) careerdev-subscribe@smartgroups.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/spug-list/attachments/20040127/9c5d47cc/attachment.htm From MichaelRWolf at att.net Wed Jan 28 03:46:15 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: The string name of a variable (or any identifier) Message-ID: Anyone ever wanted to do something like this? I do it all the time in debugging, but I can't put it in a loop like this my ($x, $y, $z) = (1..3); @stuff_to_debug = ($x, $y, $z); foreach (@stuff_to_debug) { printf "%s %d\n", $_.printable_name, $_; } To output this? $x 1 $y 2 $z 3 Is there a way to find the current identifier name? That is, given $x or @y (or \$x or \@y), can you get back "$x" or "@y"? I'd even resort to a Dumper-type interface, requireing that I pass references, ala @stuff_to_debug = (\$x, \$y, \$z); It's easy (if somewhat awkward syntax) to get the name of the enclosing function sub xxx { my $fn_name = caller(0)[3] my $x = 42; warn "problem in $fn_name: $x.printable_name is strangly equal to $x" if $some_condition; } Ideas on how to generalize 'caller' to identifiers (and thingys) other than enclosing functions? -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From MichaelRWolf at att.net Wed Jan 28 04:05:18 2004 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: elegance ? sucess : failure Message-ID: I like elegant solutions. Always have. functions, knots, gadgets, words -- I like 'em all to be elegant. I'm in awe of an elegant solution to a problem, be it code, rope, gears, or a turn of phrase. I stumbled across a quote from an elder, a founding-parent in the logic world of computers, if you will. He was a very logical, methodical man. Elegence is not a dispensable luxury but a factor that decides between sucess and failure. -- Edsger W. Dijkstra elegance: ingeniously simple and effective -- OED -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf@att.net From andrew at sweger.net Wed Jan 28 04:22:25 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: those job offers from Jaye Lill Message-ID: I have responded to Jaye Lill regarding the inappropriate job postings to the list. Please note that job offers and opportunities should not be posted directly to the mailing list. Instead, please refer to the instructions posted on the SPUG website (URL listed below). -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From david.dyck at fluke.com Wed Jan 28 12:10:07 2004 From: david.dyck at fluke.com (David Dyck) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: The string name of a variable (or any identifier) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 at 01:46 -0800, Michael R. Wolf ...: > Anyone ever wanted to do something like this? I do it all the time in > debugging, but I can't put it in a loop like this > > my ($x, $y, $z) = (1..3); > @stuff_to_debug = ($x, $y, $z); > foreach (@stuff_to_debug) { > printf "%s %d\n", $_.printable_name, $_; > } > > To output this? > > $x 1 > $y 2 > $z 3 I was going to propose something based on B::Deparse such as this tested code: use B::Deparse; my $deparse = B::Deparse->new("-p", "-sC"); sub getnames($) { my $stuff_to_debug = shift; die "must pass code reff to getnames" unless ref $stuff_to_debug eq 'CODE'; my $body = $deparse->coderef2text($stuff_to_debug); # remove sub wrappers $body =~ s/\s*//g; $body =~ s/^{\(//s; $body =~ s/\);}$//s; split /,/, $body; } my ($x, $y, $z) = (1..3); my $stuff_to_debug = sub {($x, $y, $z)}; foreach (getnames $stuff_to_debug) { printf "%s %d\n", $_, eval $_; } But then I thought if we wanted the names, why not pass them in like this:-) my ($x, $y, $z) = (1..3); my @stuff_to_debug = qw($x $y $z); foreach (@stuff_to_debug) { printf "%s %d\n", $_, eval $_; } Ps. Is anyone else getting hit by all the worm failed mail messages? From adamm at wazamatta.com Wed Jan 28 12:19:08 2004 From: adamm at wazamatta.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: mydoom (was: Re: SPUG: The string name of a variable (or any identifier)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4017FD1C.4090806@wazamatta.com> David Dyck wrote: [...] > Is anyone else getting hit by all the worm failed mail messages? Yes. (You may have already seen these links, but here they are for those who haven't)... bogofilter is catching them now after some intense, rushed training. -- Adam Monsen From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Jan 28 13:33:03 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Redmond Speech-processing contract Message-ID: <20040128193303.GC18566@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> The Butler Hill Group seeks a detail-oriented database and scripting guru for a 10-month contract opportunity with a client in Redmond. Tasks include moving large quantities of speech data from hard media to a fixed directory structure, cataloguing large quantities of data in a SQL database, identifying errors in file formats, and converting files to a standard sound file format. We can provide an excellent, fast-paced, challenging work environment, as well as a competitive hourly rate, paid as self-employment (1099) income. Requirements: * Competent with PERL scripts, VB, VBS, C++, UNIX tools, Macros, Stored Procedures, SQL queries, Excel, system management * Regular expressions and text processing; developing scripting solutions to quickly isolate particular text fragments from semi-structured text files. * Extensive experience developing in a Windows environment, including setting folder permissions. * Extremely detail-oriented, highly organized, high levels of initiative, excellent communication skills, project management skills, ability to multitask with rapidly shifting priorities * Ability to work independently with minimal supervision * Enthusiastic about speech technology and willing to contribute to this exciting field. * Work on-site in Redmond, WA * Willing to build a long term relationship with BHG and its client. The initial contract will be for the remainder of the calendar year; however, we hope that the right person will be available for part-time (flexible schedule) work beyond that period. * US Work authorization (citizen or permanent resident) Preferred: * experience with speech data or sound files This work will be full-time for approximately 5 months, and part-time (maintenance mode) for the remainder of the contract period, with possible followup work after that. To apply, please send a resume or CV to sdo@butlerhill.com by January 30, 2004. From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Jan 28 14:43:59 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUGly Chores List on Wiki now Message-ID: <20040128204359.GA19583@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> SPUGsters, As requested, I've (finally) posted a list of the SPUGly duties that need to be taken over by others in view of my "retirement" as "InterGalactic Emperor of SPUG" over at the Wiki. You'll find the SPUGchores link after clicking on the KeepSPUGaLive link from the home page. ============================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. tim(AT)teachmeperl.com | | SPUG Founder & Leader spug(AT)teachmeperl.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group http://www.seattleperl.com | | SPUG Wiki Site http://spugwiki.perlocity.org | | Perl Certification Site http://perlcert.perlocity.org | ============================================================== From tom_g_coleman at hotmail.com Wed Jan 28 17:57:05 2004 From: tom_g_coleman at hotmail.com (tom Coleman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: debugging perl Message-ID: hi Michael, >>you asked: Is there a way to find the current identifier name? That is, given $x or @y (or \$x or \@y), can you get back "$x" or "@y"? >>here's a suggestion: Passing the variables as references is a step in the right direction. You could bless them with the name you wish to identify by... then extract the blessed name to get the variable name. @stuff_to_debug = ( bless(\$x, "scalar_x", bless(\$y, "scalar_y", bless(\$z, "scalar_z") ); foreach (@stuff_to_debug) { printf "%s %d\n", $$_, ; } I have not taken the time to extract the blessed name from the reference to get the variable name. A more complex method could deal with more than just scalars. ##### a more direct solution... Perl supports conversion between strings to variables... just pass the variables as strings. @stuff_to_debug = ( "$x", "$y", "$z" ); foreach (@stuff_to_debug) { printf "%s %d\n", $_, ; } I have not taken the time to convert from string to variable to get value... something like: my $var_string = "x"; my $value = ${$var_string}; good luck! tom coleman _________________________________________________________________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software — optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 From Marc.M.Adkins at Doorways.org Wed Jan 28 22:54:49 2004 From: Marc.M.Adkins at Doorways.org (Marc M. Adkins) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl oddity? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: # I was a little surprised at this... print join('/', reverse localtime), "\n"; print join('/', reverse localtime(time)), "\n"; @t = ( time ); print join('/', reverse localtime($t[0])), "\n"; print join('/', reverse localtime(@t)), "\n"; # ???????? print join('/', reverse localtime(shift(@t))), "\n"; # I would have thought that the line with the question # marks would have worked the same as the rest. # mma From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Jan 28 23:06:21 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl oddity? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040129050621.GA22507@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 08:54:49PM -0800, Marc M. Adkins wrote: > # I was a little surprised at this... > > print join('/', reverse localtime), "\n"; > print join('/', reverse localtime(time)), "\n"; > > @t = ( time ); > > print join('/', reverse localtime($t[0])), "\n"; > print join('/', reverse localtime(@t)), "\n"; # ???????? > print join('/', reverse localtime(shift(@t))), "\n"; > > # I would have thought that the line with the question > # marks would have worked the same as the rest. > # mma My guess is that localtime is "prototyped" as receiving a scalar value, so in that ??? statement you're actually passing the number of items in the array, which is 1, rather than the epoch-seconds value (I'll leave the testing of that hypothesis to you.) *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my Manning book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From krahnj at acm.org Thu Jan 29 04:19:00 2004 From: krahnj at acm.org (John W. Krahn) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl oddity? In-Reply-To: <20040129050621.GA22507@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> References: <20040129050621.GA22507@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: <04012902190001.04594@d66-183-119-25> On Wednesday 28 January 2004 21:06, Tim Maher wrote: > On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 08:54:49PM -0800, Marc M. Adkins wrote: > > # I was a little surprised at this... > > > > print join('/', reverse localtime), "\n"; > > print join('/', reverse localtime(time)), "\n"; > > > > @t = ( time ); > > > > print join('/', reverse localtime($t[0])), "\n"; > > print join('/', reverse localtime(@t)), "\n"; # ???????? > > print join('/', reverse localtime(shift(@t))), "\n"; > > > > # I would have thought that the line with the question > > # marks would have worked the same as the rest. > > # mma > > My guess is that localtime is "prototyped" as receiving a > scalar value, so in that ??? statement you're actually > passing the number of items in the array, which is 1, rather > than the epoch-seconds value (I'll leave the testing of that > hypothesis to you.) You "guess"?! :-) It's easy enough to prove. $ perl -le' sub context { print wantarray ? "LIST" : "SCALAR", " context" } localtime context' SCALAR context John -- use Perl; program fulfillment From sthoenna at efn.org Wed Jan 28 10:07:47 2004 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: The string name of a variable (or any identifier) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Michael R. Wolf wrote: > > Anyone ever wanted to do something like this? I do it all the time in > debugging, but I can't put it in a loop like this > > my ($x, $y, $z) = (1..3); > @stuff_to_debug = ($x, $y, $z); > foreach (@stuff_to_debug) { > printf "%s %d\n", $_.printable_name, $_; > } > > To output this? > > $x 1 > $y 2 > $z 3 > > Is there a way to find the current identifier name? That is, given $x > or @y (or \$x or \@y), can you get back "$x" or "@y"? > > I'd even resort to a Dumper-type interface, requireing that I pass > references, ala > > @stuff_to_debug = (\$x, \$y, \$z); In general, only a coderef stores a name (actually just a pointer back to it's parent glob or to a special glob *__ANON__), and that's what caller uses. Other variables have no such context. However, if you know you have lexicals, you can use the list of references form, and for each one, check it against the values of the hash whose ref is returned by PadWalker::peek_my(0) (trying levels higher than 0 if 0 fails). Then the corresponding key will be the variable name. I think this fails if you have more than one variable of the same name in a sub, and think it might also fail if in a recursive call to a sub. If you have globals, you can use symbolic references. (Or, if you really want, do a search through all the symbol tables.) Another way, would be to use eval: for (qw/$x $y $z/) { eval "printf '%s %d\n', '$_', $_;" } (untested). From dragon at dreamhaven.org Thu Jan 29 10:08:21 2004 From: dragon at dreamhaven.org (Mikel Tidwell) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl oddity? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040129080524.H56568@calico.dreamhaven.org> I don't understand why you would think that @t should act different than any other time you use an array explicitly like that. localtime() is expecting a scalar, and you're handing it an array. Perl always returns the number of elements in that case... right? _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ -- Mikel Tidwell President, RPGamer -- http://www.rpgamer.com/ ICQ: 9187899 FireMyst's Lair -- http://dragon.rpgamer.com/ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - _ - On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Marc M. Adkins wrote: -> # I was a little surprised at this... -> -> print join('/', reverse localtime), "\n"; -> print join('/', reverse localtime(time)), "\n"; -> -> @t = ( time ); -> -> print join('/', reverse localtime($t[0])), "\n"; -> print join('/', reverse localtime(@t)), "\n"; # ???????? -> print join('/', reverse localtime(shift(@t))), "\n"; -> -> # I would have thought that the line with the question -> # marks would have worked the same as the rest. -> -> # mma -> -> _____________________________________________________________ -> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List -> POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org -> ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list -> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, U-District, Seattle WA -> WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org -> -> From ced at carios2.ca.boeing.com Thu Jan 29 11:59:57 2004 From: ced at carios2.ca.boeing.com (ced@carios2.ca.boeing.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: The string name of a variable (or any identifier) Message-ID: <200401291759.JAA25631@carios2.ca.boeing.com> > Anyone ever wanted to do something like this? I do it all the time in > Anyone ever wanted to do something like this? I do it all the time in > debugging, but I can't put it in a loop like this > my ($x, $y, $z) = (1..3); > @stuff_to_debug = ($x, $y, $z); > foreach (@stuff_to_debug) { > printf "%s %d\n", $_.printable_name, $_; > } Not quite as elegant as an array but did someone already suggest a hash... my %stuff_to_debug; @stuff_to_debug{'x'..'z'} = 1..3; while ( my($key,$value) = each %stuff_to_debug ) { printf "%s %d\n", $key, $value; } -- Charles DeRykus From cmeyer at helvella.org Thu Jan 29 12:34:08 2004 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl oddity? In-Reply-To: <04012902190001.04594@d66-183-119-25>; from krahnj@acm.org on Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 02:19:00AM -0800 References: <20040129050621.GA22507@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> <04012902190001.04594@d66-183-119-25> Message-ID: <20040129103408.G9212@hobart.helvella.org> On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 02:19:00AM -0800, John W. Krahn wrote: > On Wednesday 28 January 2004 21:06, Tim Maher wrote: [...] > > My guess is that localtime is "prototyped" as receiving a > > scalar value, so in that ??? statement you're actually > > passing the number of items in the array, which is 1, rather > > than the epoch-seconds value (I'll leave the testing of that > > hypothesis to you.) > > You "guess"?! :-) It's easy enough to prove. > > $ perl -le' sub context { print wantarray ? "LIST" : "SCALAR", " context" } localtime context' > SCALAR context Or you can use: perl -le'print prototype "CORE::localtime"' ;$ So, it optionally takes one scalar argument. Lots on prototypes in 'perldoc perlsub'. ... speaking of which, how many Perl programmers make use of prototypes on a regular basis? It seems that most of my modules are OO, and method calls in Perl ignore the prototype, so I end up seldomly using them. -Colin. From joneil at cobaltgroup.com Thu Jan 29 12:46:08 2004 From: joneil at cobaltgroup.com (O'neil, Jerome) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl oddity? Message-ID: <25160AB2660F8B449892B0EB9C29C165C1FBDB@ex-sea-is2.cobaltgroup.com> -----Original Message----- > ... speaking of which, how many Perl programmers make use of prototypes > on a regular basis? It seems that most of my modules are OO, and method > calls in Perl ignore the prototype, so I end up seldomly using them. Same here. It'd be nice to have a runtime flag that enforced prototypes. -Jerome From cmeyer at helvella.org Thu Jan 29 12:53:14 2004 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl oddity? In-Reply-To: <25160AB2660F8B449892B0EB9C29C165C1FBDB@ex-sea-is2.cobaltgroup.com>; from joneil@cobaltgroup.com on Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 10:46:08AM -0800 References: <25160AB2660F8B449892B0EB9C29C165C1FBDB@ex-sea-is2.cobaltgroup.com> Message-ID: <20040129105314.H9212@hobart.helvella.org> On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 10:46:08AM -0800, O'neil, Jerome wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > ... speaking of which, how many Perl programmers make use of prototypes > > on a regular basis? It seems that most of my modules are OO, and method > > calls in Perl ignore the prototype, so I end up seldomly using them. > > Same here. It'd be nice to have a runtime flag that enforced prototypes. Perl prototypes are enforced at compile time. The problem is that OO method call resolution takes place at runtime in Perl. I'm not familiar enough with the prototype mechanism to know if enforcing them at runtime is feasible. I'm guessing that it is not, because that desireable feature hasn't shown up yet. -Colin. From adamm at wazamatta.com Thu Jan 29 13:36:23 2004 From: adamm at wazamatta.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:37:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl oddity? In-Reply-To: <20040129103408.G9212@hobart.helvella.org> References: <20040129050621.GA22507@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> <04012902190001.04594@d66-183-119-25> <20040129103408.G9212@hobart.helvella.org> Message-ID: <401960B7.4020706@wazamatta.com> Colin Meyer wrote: [...] > ... speaking of which, how many Perl programmers make use of > prototypes on a regular basis? [...] I try and use them for every non-OO subroutine. Unfortunately, my subs almost always take an %args hash, so every prototype is just (%). I need Perl6 named params! I usually do something like this: sub foo(%) { my %args = (name => 'default', @_); # do stuff } foo(name=>'adam'); ...so for me, prototypes are just a notch above useless. -- Adam Monsen