SPUG: FW: Giving up on computer jobs & usefulness ofplacementfirms

[Hartman, Karl B]

However, I forgot to add, the few times I went out to job hunting, the first interviews were with HR and they all asked the same thing, "Do you have any certifications?"  This is because almost all HR folks in large corporations and are there to screen applicants, little or no knowledge of what is really needed to perform most jobs in the company.  As noted, with electronic resumes, they have already been filtered for the appropriate words/phrases.  

Karl

-----Original Message-----
From: Hartman, Karl B 
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 9:19 AM
To: Peter Darley; Jay at scherrer.com
Cc: spug-list at pm.org
Subject: RE: SPUG: FW: Giving up on computer jobs & usefulness ofplacementfirms


I personally hold any certifications obtained via the company who makes the product(s) as suspect.  I find the Microsoft certification the most troubling.  True, I have never taken it (nor will I ever), and I haven't seen the practice questions in some years, but when I was assisting some of the Boeing NT admins in their attempts to obtain their MCSE, I had to tell them two answers, Industry answer(so when you talked to people from a non-Microsoft shop they won't look at you strangely) and Microsoft answer (so you can pass the test).  After taking classes for years for both HP and SUN, I found the biggest problem being redundancy.  Now, I have to admit, I have not yet taken any RedHat classes, but I will be remedying that soon.

If I was hiring someone, I would be more interested in educational history and work and non-work activities in the field of which I am hiring for.  Certifications from institutions of higher education would hold a lot more sway than any commercial certification.  I would use the latter only in the case of a tie breaker. If you have any questions or comments, don't hesitate to call.

Thanks,

Karl Hartman
SSG Client/Server Operations - Computing Admin Process Mgmt 425-294-8172 (office) 

Business Sense
"Failure to embrace an idea just because it doesn't make sense or just plain doesn't work does not constitute resistance to change"

Common Sense - from "Really important stuff my kids taught me" "While you're standing there deciding whether or not to get your  net, the butterfly is flying away."





-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Darley [mailto:pdarley at kinesis-cem.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 11:06 AM
To: Jay at scherrer.com
Cc: spug-list at pm.org
Subject: RE: SPUG: FW: Giving up on computer jobs & usefulness of placementfirms


Jay,
	I didn't mean say that the certifications were a red flag.  The red flag is the reliance on the certifications in the absence of other support.  If someone has a certification, plus professional or non-professional experience, it's certainly not a mark against them.  With me it's also not a mark for them either, as my opinion of technical certifications is, as they say, piss poor. Thanks, Peter Darley

-----Original Message-----
From: spug-list-bounces at mail.pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces at mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Jay Scherrer
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:36 AM
To: Peter Darley
Cc: spug-list at pm.org
Subject: Re: SPUG: FW: Giving up on computer jobs & usefulness of placement firms


On Wednesday 13 August 2003 09:08 am, Peter Darley wrote:

> 	The thing that is the biggest red flag to me is an applicant who
> focuses
a
> lot on their industry certifications (especially MCSEs).  Having them
isn't
> a mark against them, but if it's what they put forward as proof that
> they know what they're doing that tells me that they probably don't 
> have much real world experience, weather it's at work, school, 
> noodling around at home, etc.

I have been wrestling the idea of getting certified with either Perl or Linux. I didn't know this would be a red flag :-( Would it be better to show from SourceForge or similar? Just curious, once my house is done I'll be trying enter the job market. Any help for preparing would be helpful.

Jay _____________________________________________________________
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