[SP-pm] Mercado de trabalho, etc. [outra thread]

Wed Oct 5 06:26:46 PDT 2011

maquina de café com login existe?

meldels...

2011/10/5 Alexei Znamensky <russoz at gmail.com>

>
>
> 2011/10/5 Tiago Peczenyj <tiago.peczenyj at gmail.com>
>
>> Pior que la era muito frio, impossivel não tomar cafe...
>>
>> mas só descontavam o que excedia de um "limite".
>>
>
> e voce tinha de dar login na maquina de café? ou anotavam seu id na hora de
> comprar a fichinha?
>
>
>>
>> 2011/10/5 cleiton alves <cleitondebian at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Tiago
>>> Descontar cafezinho eh sacanagem hein !
>>>
>>> Em 05/10/11, Tiago Peczenyj<tiago.peczenyj at gmail.com> escreveu:
>>> > Daniel,
>>> >
>>> > acabei me alongando em algums comentários alguns emails atrás.
>>> >
>>> > Seria bom desmembrarmos esta thread para falar sobre mercado de
>>> trabalho.
>>> >
>>> > 2011/10/5 Daniel Vinciguerra <dan.vinciguerra at gmail.com>
>>> >
>>> >> Senhores,
>>> >>
>>> >> Para não perdermos o foco ta thread e aproveitarmos melhor a discussão
>>> e
>>> >> todos os pontos de vista, me prontifiquei e entrei em contato com a
>>> Elisa
>>> >> (moça do recrutamento) para uma negociação sem compromisso e postarei
>>> aqui
>>> >> os resultados da negociação para ajudar o pessoal que esta pensando em
>>> >> concorrer a vaga.
>>> >>
>>> >> De qualquer forma em um primeiro contato a Elisa ja deixou escapar que
>>> o
>>> >> valor é aberto e ela precisa responder a solicitação da IBM ainda
>>> hoje.
>>> >>
>>> >> Forte abraço a todos,
>>> >>
>>> >> *
>>> >> Daniel Vinciguerra*
>>> >> Web Solutions Architect and Co-Owner at Bivee
>>> >> http://github.com/dvinciguerra <http://github.com/dvinciguerra>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 2011/10/5 cleiton alves <cleitondebian at gmail.com>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Herman
>>> >>> Fique tranquilo , cada um esta colocando o ponto de vista sobre o
>>> >>> assunto , não precisa de brigas , flamewar essas coisas.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Abraços
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Em 05/10/11, Carlos Eduardo Langoni<ce.langoni at gmail.com> escreveu:
>>> >>> > Hernan e demais colegas da lista,
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Eu concordo com generalizar--, mas também acho que isso tudo é
>>> reflexo
>>> >>> da
>>> >>> > experiência de todos com este tipo de negociação, não
>>> necessariamente
>>> >>> > estamos falando da IBM e suas terceirizadas, mas de uma forma geral
>>> o
>>> >>> > mercado tem se comportado assim, papel acima da experiência, se
>>> você
>>> >>> > não
>>> >>> tem
>>> >>> > papel não se encaixa nas vagas.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Tudo bem, vai lá, ficou totalmente offtopic a conversa, mas daí a
>>> ter
>>> >>> > vontade de sair da lista, nem tanto.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Concordo com o Daniel Vinciguerra, gato escaldado tem medo de água
>>> >>> > fria.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Abraços a todos!
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > 2011/10/5 Alexei Znamensky <russoz at gmail.com>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> 2011/10/5 hernan.lopes at inexsoft.com.br <
>>> hernan.lopes at inexsoft.com.br>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Por acaso alguem ligou e perguntou ou negociou algo ?
>>> >>> >>> Essas especulações marrons me dão nojo...
>>> >>> >>> Se não tem coisa boa para falar melhor não falar nada.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> hernan++  # se nao sabe, nao fala
>>> >>> >> hernan++  # é sempre fácil generalizar e especular
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>>  Só vi comentários ruins, pessimistas e de péssimo gosto, lamento
>>> >>> >>> demais... da até vontade de sair da lista
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> abs
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> hernan
>>> >>> >>>
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>>> >>> >>> From: Carlos Costa <crncosta at gmail.com>
>>> >>> >>> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:45:40 -0300
>>> >>> >>> Message-ID: <
>>> >>> >>>
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>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> Sabem o que é pior sobre esse mercado marrom de TI:
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> - querem pagar mal, com contratos duvidosos via PJ ou
>>> quarterizados
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> - tem altas taxas de turnover[1] e funcionários que não se
>>> >>> >>> identificam
>>> >>> >>> com a missão da empresa (no geral, por falta de motivação $$$)
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> - Praticam uma das 2 maneiras de gerar lucro: aumentar receitas
>>> acima
>>> >>> >>> das despesas, ou cortar gastos abaixo das receitas. Há relatos de
>>> >>> >>> empresas que cortam até café!
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> - E ainda saem por ai dando entrevista pra radio/TV/jornal/web
>>> >>> >>> dizendo
>>> >>> >>> que falta profissional de TI no mercado. Falta mesmo é pagar bem.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> [ ]s
>>> >>> >>> Carlos.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnover_(employment)
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> 2011/10/5 Hernan Lopes <hernanlopes at gmail.com>:
>>> >>> >>> > nojo!
>>> >>> >>> >
>>> >>> >>> > 2011/10/4 Hélder Máximo Botter Ribas <helderribas at gmail.com>
>>> >>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> >> O que esta sendo falado pode ser aplicado ao mercado
>>> >>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> >> Mas é a velha e boa intuição que se adquire com o tempo que
>>> pode
>>> >>> >>> >> ajudar
>>> >>> >>> a
>>> >>> >>> >> "prever" se vai entrar num projeto desafiador ou numa fria.
>>> >>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> >> Pois todos sabemos que exitem projetos e projetos,
>>> >>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> >> E sempre vamos ver gerentes que brigam pela equipe e outros
>>> que
>>> >>> brigam
>>> >>> >>> com
>>> >>> >>> >> a equipe, equipe de vendas ruim e boas, estratégias de
>>> negócios
>>> >>> >>> suicidas ou
>>> >>> >>> >> conservadoras, produto estabelecido ou briga para oferecer
>>> >>> >>> >> serviços
>>> >>> em
>>> >>> >>> >> diversos lugares
>>> >>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> >> Claro que as empresas de body shop que existem na ibm são
>>> famosas
>>> >>> (e
>>> >>> >>> >> as
>>> >>> >>> >> mesmas atuam em diversas outras consultorias e outros
>>> clientes), e
>>> >>> >>> emprega
>>> >>> >>> >> muitos colegas.
>>> >>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> >> E aquela, se o salário não compensar o trabalho ( ou a troca
>>> de
>>> >>> >>> trabalho),
>>> >>> >>> >> para que aceitar?
>>> >>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> >> Hélder
>>> >>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> >> 2011/10/4 Alexei Znamensky <russoz at gmail.com>
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >>> 2011/10/4 Tiago Peczenyj <tiago.peczenyj at gmail.com>
>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>> Tem um outro detalhe
>>> >>> >>> >>>> Empresas como a IBM possuem centenas de divisões e vivem
>>> >>> comprando
>>> >>> >>> >>>> outras empresas.
>>> >>> >>> >>>> É bem possivel que algumas dessas divisões sejam caóticas,
>>> >>> >>> >>>> outras
>>> >>> >>> sejam
>>> >>> >>> >>>> extraordinárias.
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >>> Estou lá dentro, e te garanto que é exatamente assim. Há
>>> áreas na
>>> >>> IBM
>>> >>> >>> que
>>> >>> >>> >>> são fantásticas para se trabalhar, e outras que são o fino do
>>> >>> lixo.
>>> >>> >>> >>> Do
>>> >>> >>> lado
>>> >>> >>> >>> de fora, não se vê isso, então, basicamente você:
>>> >>> >>> >>> 1) ou já trabalhou lá e sabe
>>> >>> >>> >>> 2) ou conhece alguém que trabalha ou trabalhou lá
>>> >>> >>> >>> 3) ou arrisca
>>> >>> >>> >>> 4) ou nem arrisca e sai fora
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>> Na pratica, no Brasil, com TI Corporativa, existe a
>>> tendência a
>>> >>> >>> >>>> maior
>>> >>> >>> >>>> burocratização do trabalho e terceirização do trabalho. De
>>> >>> repente
>>> >>> >>> aqueles
>>> >>> >>> >>>> caras q foram contratados por 6 meses para fazer um
>>> sisteminha
>>> >>> >>> simples foi a
>>> >>> >>> >>>> unica forma de fazer esse maldito sistema pois o gerente não
>>> >>> tinha
>>> >>> >>> como
>>> >>> >>> >>>> contratar um mizero funcionario (falta autorização,
>>> >>> >>> >>>> eletricidade,
>>> >>> >>> etc) mas
>>> >>> >>> >>>> podia gastar 6 milhões com terceiros. Mas se esse gerente
>>> >>> consegue
>>> >>> >>> uma
>>> >>> >>> >>>> empresa que cobra 4 milhões, melhor pra ele que vai
>>> economizar
>>> >>> >>> dinheiro e
>>> >>> >>> >>>> pode sobrar para alguma outra coisa. Se a empresa contratada
>>> é
>>> >>> ruim,
>>> >>> >>> a
>>> >>> >>> >>>> galera terceirizada vai sofrer.
>>> >>> >>> >>>> E para vencer essas "licitações" quanto mais papel,
>>> >>> >>> >>>> certificação,
>>> >>> >>> sigla,
>>> >>> >>> >>>> melhor. Mas é só uma parte da realidade Brasileira e
>>> mundial.
>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Daniel de Oliveira
>>> Mantovani
>>> >>> >>> >>>> <daniel.oliveira.mantovani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>>> 2011/10/4 cleiton alves <cleitondebian at gmail.com>:
>>> >>> >>> >>>>> > Uma coisa é classica , estuda-se muito e paga-se pouco
>>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>>> Os caras que eu conheço que estudaram muito até onde eu sei
>>> não
>>> >>> >>> ganham
>>> >>> >>> >>>>> pouco não, nenhum deles. E todos eles acham que eles
>>> estudaram
>>> >>> >>> pouco.
>>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>>> >
>>> >>> >>> >>>>> > =begin disclaimer
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>>> >>> >>> >>>>> --
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>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>> --
>>> >>> >>> >>>> Tiago B. Peczenyj
>>> >>> >>> >>>> Linux User #405772
>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>> http://pacman.blog.br
>>> >>> >>> >>>>
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>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >>> --
>>> >>> >>> >>> Alexei "RUSSOZ" Znamensky | russoz EM gmail com |
>>> >>> http://russoz.org
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>>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexeiz |
>>> http://github.com/russoz
>>> >>> >>> >>> "I don't know... fly casual!" -- Han Solo
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>>> >>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> >> --
>>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
>>> >>> >>> >> Hélder Máximo Botter Ribas
>>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
>>> >>> >>> >> twitter: @hmbr
>>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
>>> >>> >>> >>
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>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> --
>>> >>> >> Alexei "RUSSOZ" Znamensky | russoz EM gmail com |
>>> http://russoz.org
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>>> >>> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexeiz | http://github.com/russoz
>>> >>> >> "I don't know... fly casual!" -- Han Solo
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>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> cleiton alves
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>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Tiago B. Peczenyj
>>> > Linux User #405772
>>> >
>>> > http://pacman.blog.br
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> cleiton alves
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tiago B. Peczenyj
>> Linux User #405772
>>
>> http://pacman.blog.br
>>
>> --
>> Tiago B. Peczenyj
>> Linux User #405772
>>
>> http://pacman.blog.br
>>
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>
>
> --
> Alexei "RUSSOZ" Znamensky | russoz EM gmail com | http://russoz.org
> GPG fingerprint = 42AB E78C B83A AE31 7D27  1CF3 C66F B5C7 71CA 9F3C
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexeiz | http://github.com/russoz
> "I don't know... fly casual!" -- Han Solo
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-- 
Tiago B. Peczenyj
Linux User #405772

http://pacman.blog.br
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