[SP-pm] Mercado de trabalho, etc. [outra thread]
Tiago Peczenyj
tiago.peczenyj at gmail.com
Wed Oct 5 06:17:16 PDT 2011
Pior que la era muito frio, impossivel não tomar cafe...
mas só descontavam o que excedia de um "limite".
2011/10/5 cleiton alves <cleitondebian at gmail.com>
> Tiago
> Descontar cafezinho eh sacanagem hein !
>
> Em 05/10/11, Tiago Peczenyj<tiago.peczenyj at gmail.com> escreveu:
> > Daniel,
> >
> > acabei me alongando em algums comentários alguns emails atrás.
> >
> > Seria bom desmembrarmos esta thread para falar sobre mercado de trabalho.
> >
> > 2011/10/5 Daniel Vinciguerra <dan.vinciguerra at gmail.com>
> >
> >> Senhores,
> >>
> >> Para não perdermos o foco ta thread e aproveitarmos melhor a discussão e
> >> todos os pontos de vista, me prontifiquei e entrei em contato com a
> Elisa
> >> (moça do recrutamento) para uma negociação sem compromisso e postarei
> aqui
> >> os resultados da negociação para ajudar o pessoal que esta pensando em
> >> concorrer a vaga.
> >>
> >> De qualquer forma em um primeiro contato a Elisa ja deixou escapar que o
> >> valor é aberto e ela precisa responder a solicitação da IBM ainda hoje.
> >>
> >> Forte abraço a todos,
> >>
> >> *
> >> Daniel Vinciguerra*
> >> Web Solutions Architect and Co-Owner at Bivee
> >> http://github.com/dvinciguerra <http://github.com/dvinciguerra>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2011/10/5 cleiton alves <cleitondebian at gmail.com>
> >>
> >>> Herman
> >>> Fique tranquilo , cada um esta colocando o ponto de vista sobre o
> >>> assunto , não precisa de brigas , flamewar essas coisas.
> >>>
> >>> Abraços
> >>>
> >>> Em 05/10/11, Carlos Eduardo Langoni<ce.langoni at gmail.com> escreveu:
> >>> > Hernan e demais colegas da lista,
> >>> >
> >>> > Eu concordo com generalizar--, mas também acho que isso tudo é
> reflexo
> >>> da
> >>> > experiência de todos com este tipo de negociação, não necessariamente
> >>> > estamos falando da IBM e suas terceirizadas, mas de uma forma geral o
> >>> > mercado tem se comportado assim, papel acima da experiência, se você
> >>> > não
> >>> tem
> >>> > papel não se encaixa nas vagas.
> >>> >
> >>> > Tudo bem, vai lá, ficou totalmente offtopic a conversa, mas daí a ter
> >>> > vontade de sair da lista, nem tanto.
> >>> >
> >>> > Concordo com o Daniel Vinciguerra, gato escaldado tem medo de água
> >>> > fria.
> >>> >
> >>> > Abraços a todos!
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > 2011/10/5 Alexei Znamensky <russoz at gmail.com>
> >>> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> 2011/10/5 hernan.lopes at inexsoft.com.br <
> hernan.lopes at inexsoft.com.br>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Por acaso alguem ligou e perguntou ou negociou algo ?
> >>> >>> Essas especulações marrons me dão nojo...
> >>> >>> Se não tem coisa boa para falar melhor não falar nada.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> hernan++ # se nao sabe, nao fala
> >>> >> hernan++ # é sempre fácil generalizar e especular
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Só vi comentários ruins, pessimistas e de péssimo gosto, lamento
> >>> >>> demais... da até vontade de sair da lista
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> abs
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> hernan
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
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> >>> >>> From: Carlos Costa <crncosta at gmail.com>
> >>> >>> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:45:40 -0300
> >>> >>> Message-ID: <
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> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Sabem o que é pior sobre esse mercado marrom de TI:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> - querem pagar mal, com contratos duvidosos via PJ ou quarterizados
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> - tem altas taxas de turnover[1] e funcionários que não se
> >>> >>> identificam
> >>> >>> com a missão da empresa (no geral, por falta de motivação $$$)
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> - Praticam uma das 2 maneiras de gerar lucro: aumentar receitas
> acima
> >>> >>> das despesas, ou cortar gastos abaixo das receitas. Há relatos de
> >>> >>> empresas que cortam até café!
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> - E ainda saem por ai dando entrevista pra radio/TV/jornal/web
> >>> >>> dizendo
> >>> >>> que falta profissional de TI no mercado. Falta mesmo é pagar bem.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> [ ]s
> >>> >>> Carlos.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnover_(employment)
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> 2011/10/5 Hernan Lopes <hernanlopes at gmail.com>:
> >>> >>> > nojo!
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > 2011/10/4 Hélder Máximo Botter Ribas <helderribas at gmail.com>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> O que esta sendo falado pode ser aplicado ao mercado
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> Mas é a velha e boa intuição que se adquire com o tempo que pode
> >>> >>> >> ajudar
> >>> >>> a
> >>> >>> >> "prever" se vai entrar num projeto desafiador ou numa fria.
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> Pois todos sabemos que exitem projetos e projetos,
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> E sempre vamos ver gerentes que brigam pela equipe e outros que
> >>> brigam
> >>> >>> com
> >>> >>> >> a equipe, equipe de vendas ruim e boas, estratégias de negócios
> >>> >>> suicidas ou
> >>> >>> >> conservadoras, produto estabelecido ou briga para oferecer
> >>> >>> >> serviços
> >>> em
> >>> >>> >> diversos lugares
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> Claro que as empresas de body shop que existem na ibm são
> famosas
> >>> (e
> >>> >>> >> as
> >>> >>> >> mesmas atuam em diversas outras consultorias e outros clientes),
> e
> >>> >>> emprega
> >>> >>> >> muitos colegas.
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> E aquela, se o salário não compensar o trabalho ( ou a troca de
> >>> >>> trabalho),
> >>> >>> >> para que aceitar?
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> Hélder
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> 2011/10/4 Alexei Znamensky <russoz at gmail.com>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> 2011/10/4 Tiago Peczenyj <tiago.peczenyj at gmail.com>
> >>> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>> >>>> Tem um outro detalhe
> >>> >>> >>>> Empresas como a IBM possuem centenas de divisões e vivem
> >>> comprando
> >>> >>> >>>> outras empresas.
> >>> >>> >>>> É bem possivel que algumas dessas divisões sejam caóticas,
> >>> >>> >>>> outras
> >>> >>> sejam
> >>> >>> >>>> extraordinárias.
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> Estou lá dentro, e te garanto que é exatamente assim. Há áreas
> na
> >>> IBM
> >>> >>> que
> >>> >>> >>> são fantásticas para se trabalhar, e outras que são o fino do
> >>> lixo.
> >>> >>> >>> Do
> >>> >>> lado
> >>> >>> >>> de fora, não se vê isso, então, basicamente você:
> >>> >>> >>> 1) ou já trabalhou lá e sabe
> >>> >>> >>> 2) ou conhece alguém que trabalha ou trabalhou lá
> >>> >>> >>> 3) ou arrisca
> >>> >>> >>> 4) ou nem arrisca e sai fora
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>> >>>> Na pratica, no Brasil, com TI Corporativa, existe a tendência
> a
> >>> >>> >>>> maior
> >>> >>> >>>> burocratização do trabalho e terceirização do trabalho. De
> >>> repente
> >>> >>> aqueles
> >>> >>> >>>> caras q foram contratados por 6 meses para fazer um sisteminha
> >>> >>> simples foi a
> >>> >>> >>>> unica forma de fazer esse maldito sistema pois o gerente não
> >>> tinha
> >>> >>> como
> >>> >>> >>>> contratar um mizero funcionario (falta autorização,
> >>> >>> >>>> eletricidade,
> >>> >>> etc) mas
> >>> >>> >>>> podia gastar 6 milhões com terceiros. Mas se esse gerente
> >>> consegue
> >>> >>> uma
> >>> >>> >>>> empresa que cobra 4 milhões, melhor pra ele que vai economizar
> >>> >>> dinheiro e
> >>> >>> >>>> pode sobrar para alguma outra coisa. Se a empresa contratada é
> >>> ruim,
> >>> >>> a
> >>> >>> >>>> galera terceirizada vai sofrer.
> >>> >>> >>>> E para vencer essas "licitações" quanto mais papel,
> >>> >>> >>>> certificação,
> >>> >>> sigla,
> >>> >>> >>>> melhor. Mas é só uma parte da realidade Brasileira e mundial.
> >>> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Daniel de Oliveira Mantovani
> >>> >>> >>>> <daniel.oliveira.mantovani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>> >>>>> 2011/10/4 cleiton alves <cleitondebian at gmail.com>:
> >>> >>> >>>>> > Uma coisa é classica , estuda-se muito e paga-se pouco
> >>> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>> >>>>> Os caras que eu conheço que estudaram muito até onde eu sei
> não
> >>> >>> ganham
> >>> >>> >>>>> pouco não, nenhum deles. E todos eles acham que eles
> estudaram
> >>> >>> pouco.
> >>> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>> >>>>> >
> >>> >>> >>>>> > =begin disclaimer
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> >>> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>> >>>>> --
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> >>> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>> >>>> --
> >>> >>> >>>> Tiago B. Peczenyj
> >>> >>> >>>> Linux User #405772
> >>> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>> >>>> http://pacman.blog.br
> >>> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>> >>>> =begin disclaimer
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> >>> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> --
> >>> >>> >>> Alexei "RUSSOZ" Znamensky | russoz EM gmail com |
> >>> http://russoz.org
> >>> >>> >>> GPG fingerprint = 42AB E78C B83A AE31 7D27 1CF3 C66F B5C7 71CA
> >>> 9F3C
> >>> >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexeiz |
> http://github.com/russoz
> >>> >>> >>> "I don't know... fly casual!" -- Han Solo
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> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> --
> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
> >>> >>> >> Hélder Máximo Botter Ribas
> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
> >>> >>> >> twitter: @hmbr
> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
> >>> >>> >>
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> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
> >>> >> Alexei "RUSSOZ" Znamensky | russoz EM gmail com | http://russoz.org
> >>> >> GPG fingerprint = 42AB E78C B83A AE31 7D27 1CF3 C66F B5C7 71CA 9F3C
> >>> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexeiz | http://github.com/russoz
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> cleiton alves
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Tiago B. Peczenyj
> > Linux User #405772
> >
> > http://pacman.blog.br
> >
>
>
> --
> cleiton alves
> =begin disclaimer
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--
Tiago B. Peczenyj
Linux User #405772
http://pacman.blog.br
--
Tiago B. Peczenyj
Linux User #405772
http://pacman.blog.br
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