From doomvox at gmail.com Wed Feb 5 12:06:51 2025 From: doomvox at gmail.com (Joseph Brenner) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2025 12:06:51 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 02/09 at 1pm PST Message-ID: "The term Baroque probably ultimately derived from the Italian word barocco, which philosophers used during the Middle Ages to describe an obstacle in schematic logic. Subsequently the word came to denote any contorted idea or involuted process of thought. ... In art criticism the word Baroque came to be used to describe anything irregular, bizarre, or otherwise departing from established rules and proportions." Encyclopedia Britannica "Baroque art and architecture" https://www.britannica.com/art/Baroque-art-and-architecture The Raku Study Group February 9, 2025 1pm in California, 9pm in the UK An informal meeting: drop by when you can, show us what you've got, ask and answer questions, or just listen and lurk. Perl and programming in general are fair game, along with Raku, Zoom meeting link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/82992902436?pwd=9HTor3l74UjrnEPVpzK9VnycTEGTEp.1 Passcode: 4RakuRoll -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Sun Feb 9 21:28:31 2025 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 21:28:31 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 02/09 at 1pm PST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2/5/25 12:06, Joseph Brenner wrote: > ... The Raku Study Group > > February 9, 2025 1pm in California, 9pm in the UK On 2/9/25 13:02, Joseph Brenner wrote: > Zoom won't let me get into the meeting unless I upgrade first. > Excellent. On 2/9/25 13:21, Joseph Brenner wrote: > And after the install, the new zoom was grindingly slow and hanging > up my entire system. Trying a full restart. On 2/9/25 13:27, Bruce Gray wrote: > Thanks for keeping us informed. On 2/9/25 13:39, Joseph Brenner wrote: > Sure. Currently, trying to use zoom makes my system totally > unusable. I'm trying a few drastic measures that could take some > time. > > Feel free to talk amongst yourselves, or just call this one a > bust... I have no idea when I'll be able to join the meeting. I would say "put Zoom into a VM after you have fixed your machine", but Zoom is going to need access to the camera and microphone; and I have never done so with my hypervisor of choice (VirtualBox from Oracle package servers). STFW for "VirtualBox Zoom appliance" produces scarce few hits: https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=virtualbox%20zoom%20appliance https://www.gilesorr.com/blog/zoom-in-virtualbox-debian.html Searching zoom.com for "site:zoom.com virtualbox" does not produce anything obvious: https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=site%3Azoom.com%20virtualbox A Zoom Virtualbox appliance would be useful. Perhaps searching and/or posting on the Zoom community site could produce positive results. If and when your machine is stable, consider taking an image of the system drive. I do this before updating Debian (e.g. monthly) and/or as needed (e.g. before and/or after major system changes). David From doomvox at gmail.com Mon Feb 10 16:15:04 2025 From: doomvox at gmail.com (Joseph Brenner) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 16:15:04 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 02/09 at 1pm PST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey David-- I eventually fixed the problem by doing a full upgrade to Debian 12, which as it happens took forever to complete. (I think I may go back to reinstalling from scratch, it's probably faster, if only because it skips unpacking the accumulated cruft of packages I haven't really been using.) On Sun, Feb 9, 2025 at 9:28?PM David Christensen wrote: > On 2/5/25 12:06, Joseph Brenner wrote: > > ... The Raku Study Group > > > > February 9, 2025 1pm in California, 9pm in the UK > > > On 2/9/25 13:02, Joseph Brenner wrote: > > Zoom won't let me get into the meeting unless I upgrade first. > > Excellent. > > > On 2/9/25 13:21, Joseph Brenner wrote: > > And after the install, the new zoom was grindingly slow and hanging > > up my entire system. Trying a full restart. > > > On 2/9/25 13:27, Bruce Gray wrote: > > Thanks for keeping us informed. > > > On 2/9/25 13:39, Joseph Brenner wrote: > > Sure. Currently, trying to use zoom makes my system totally > > unusable. I'm trying a few drastic measures that could take some > > time. > > > > Feel free to talk amongst yourselves, or just call this one a > > bust... I have no idea when I'll be able to join the meeting. > > > I would say "put Zoom into a VM after you have fixed your machine", but > Zoom is going to need access to the camera and microphone; and I have > never done so with my hypervisor of choice (VirtualBox from Oracle > package servers). > > > STFW for "VirtualBox Zoom appliance" produces scarce few hits: > > https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=virtualbox%20zoom%20appliance > > https://www.gilesorr.com/blog/zoom-in-virtualbox-debian.html > > > Searching zoom.com for "site:zoom.com virtualbox" does not produce > anything obvious: > > https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=site%3Azoom.com%20virtualbox > > > A Zoom Virtualbox appliance would be useful. Perhaps searching and/or > posting on the Zoom community site could produce positive results. > > > If and when your machine is stable, consider taking an image of the > system drive. I do this before updating Debian (e.g. monthly) and/or as > needed (e.g. before and/or after major system changes). > > > David > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doomvox at gmail.com Mon Feb 10 17:58:21 2025 From: doomvox at gmail.com (Joseph Brenner) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 17:58:21 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 02/23 at 1pm PST Message-ID: "I found my way in the dark by bouncing off of sharp objects, as do we all." -- Algis Budrys The Raku Study Group February 23, 2025 1pm in California, 9pm in the UK An informal meeting: drop by when you can, show us what you've got, ask and answer questions, or just listen and lurk. Perl and programming in general are fair game, along with Raku, Zoom meeting link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/84661895479?pwd=f2QJ1XTaquo6JDbhNwuFalAqoDpHJ8.1 Passcode: 4RakuRoll -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Feb 10 19:09:20 2025 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 19:09:20 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 02/09 at 1pm PST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2/9/25 13:02, Joseph Brenner wrote: > Zoom won't let me get into the meeting unless I upgrade first. On 2/10/25 01:51, Joseph Brenner wrote: > Well hey, I got my fix to work... and it only took me until 1:30am > to get here. > > Did a bunch of sysadmin stuff I've been putting off-- full backups, > full system upgrade. That zoom .deb is *supposed* to work with > Debian versions 10+, but I needed to be on version 12, myself. On 2/10/25 16:15, Joseph Brenner wrote: > I eventually fixed the problem by doing a full upgrade to Debian 12, > which as it happens took forever to complete. > > (I think I may go back to reinstalling from scratch, it's probably > faster, if only because it skips unpacking the accumulated cruft of > packages I haven't really been using.) I am glad you fixed your computer. Laptops with only one drive are always a challenge (compromise?). I rarely do in-place major version upgrades. A fresh install of a stable OS onto a secure erased SSD in a major brand computer almost always produces a good result, and eliminates the possibility of old cruft causing issues. David From doomvox at gmail.com Tue Feb 11 00:15:31 2025 From: doomvox at gmail.com (Joseph Brenner) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 00:15:31 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 02/09 at 1pm PST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I rarely do in-place major version upgrades. Yup. The bits and pieces I've got on hand to do it differently would've taken some set-up work of their own (which is one reason I'd been procrastinating on the project). Getting stuck with zoom breakage-on-upgrade motivated me to go after it directly just to get it done. As expected there weren't any major problems with a new Debian stable. Though there were a bunch of minor one's that surprised me... like, gdm3 seems to have lost the ability to choose a window manager to use for the session-- I think it now defaults to wayland and any X11 stuff is buried (and changing that would take a manual edit of a configuration file). I just installed a different dungeon master ("wdm") to get around the problem. On Mon, Feb 10, 2025 at 7:09?PM David Christensen wrote: > On 2/9/25 13:02, Joseph Brenner wrote: > > Zoom won't let me get into the meeting unless I upgrade first. > > > On 2/10/25 01:51, Joseph Brenner wrote: > > Well hey, I got my fix to work... and it only took me until 1:30am > > to get here. > > > > Did a bunch of sysadmin stuff I've been putting off-- full backups, > > full system upgrade. That zoom .deb is *supposed* to work with > > Debian versions 10+, but I needed to be on version 12, myself. > > > On 2/10/25 16:15, Joseph Brenner wrote: > > I eventually fixed the problem by doing a full upgrade to Debian 12, > > which as it happens took forever to complete. > > > > (I think I may go back to reinstalling from scratch, it's probably > > faster, if only because it skips unpacking the accumulated cruft of > > packages I haven't really been using.) > > > I am glad you fixed your computer. Laptops with only one drive are > always a challenge (compromise?). > > > I rarely do in-place major version upgrades. A fresh install of a > stable OS onto a secure erased SSD in a major brand computer almost > always produces a good result, and eliminates the possibility of old > cruft causing issues. > > > David > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Tue Feb 11 16:39:44 2025 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 16:39:44 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 02/09 at 1pm PST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45be4151-ca7e-4020-9ba0-48d82cd5e096@holgerdanske.com> On Mon, Feb 10, 2025 at 7:09?PM David Christensen wrote: > I rarely do in-place major version upgrades. On 2/11/25 00:15, Joseph Brenner wrote: > Yup. The bits and pieces I've got on hand to do it differently > would've taken some set-up work of their own (which is one reason > I'd been procrastinating on the project). Getting stuck with zoom > breakage-on-upgrade motivated me to go after it directly just to get > it done. > > As expected there weren't any major problems with a new Debian > stable. Though there were a bunch of minor one's that surprised > me... like, gdm3 seems to have lost the ability to choose a window > manager to use for the session-- I think it now defaults to wayland > and any X11 stuff is buried (and changing that would take a manual > edit of a configuration file). I just installed a different dungeon > master ("wdm") to get around the problem. I am glad it worked out. :-) David From doomvox at gmail.com Mon Feb 24 10:34:04 2025 From: doomvox at gmail.com (Joseph Brenner) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 10:34:04 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 03/09 at 1pm PST Message-ID: "There is no royal road to logic, and really valuable ideas can only be had at the price of close attention. But I know that in the matter of ideas the public prefer the cheap and nasty ... " -- C.S. Pierce, "How to Make Our Ideas Clear" (1878) The Raku Study Group March 9, 2025 1pm in California, 9pm in the UK An informal meeting: drop by when you can, show us what you've got, ask and answer questions, or just listen and lurk. Perl and programming in general are fair game, along with Raku, Zoom meeting link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/85701010841?pwd=b6eclkW4hs35tWs8a4F7kJonKaxybe.1 Passcode: 4RakuRoll -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: