From peter at thoeny.org  Sat Oct  1 16:51:24 2011
From: peter at thoeny.org (Peter Thoeny)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 16:51:24 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [offtopic] Fwd: Silicon Valley TWiki User Meet-Up
	2011-10-06, 05:00pm
References: <D602107E-1B4E-4386-8000-F40EF59C113A@thoeny.org>
Message-ID: <DBAD9220-F67A-41D7-84F4-36C42971FC79@thoeny.org>

Hi,

The TWiki (Perl Enterprise Wiki) community will have a TWiki User  
Meetup next Thursday at CMU Silicon Valley, see info below. You are  
invited to attend, RSVP links below.

Cheers,
Peter


PS: I will have two technical sessions at the Silicon Valley Code Camp  
at Foothill College next Saturday, 2011-10-08:
    * How to Run a Long Background Process in a Web App, 09:45am
    * How to create web apps in the cloud using TWiki, 11:15am
More at http://www.siliconvalley-codecamp.com/ and http://www.siliconvalley-codecamp.com/Sessions.aspx


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Peter Thoeny <peter at thoeny.org>
> Date: October 1, 2011 2:21:04 PM PDT
> To: twiki-users-sfbay at lists.sourceforge.net, TWiki-Dev list for  
> developers <twiki-dev at lists.sourceforge.net>
> Subject: Re: Silicon Valley TWiki User Meet-Up 2011-10-06, 05:00pm
>
> All:
>
> We found a venue: We will meet at the Carnegie Mellon Silicon Valley  
> at NASA Ames Research Park in Mountain View. We will start at  
> 05:00pm, e.g. 30 minutes earlier than communicated previously.
>
> You can RSVP at one of these sites:
>
> TWiki.org:  http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMeetUpInSiliconValley#MeetUp2011x10x06
> Meetup.com: http://www.meetup.com/twiki-meetups/events/35427252/
> Facebook:   http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=227336433990552
>
> Agenda of TWiki User Meet-Up 2011-10-06, 05:00pm
>   ? 05:00pm-05:30pm - Networking, snacks & drink
>   ? 05:30pm-07:00pm - Demos
>   ? 07:30pm - No-host dinner
>
> Address:
>   ? CMU Silicon Valley, NASA Research Park Bldg 23, Mountain View,  
> CA 94043
> Directions:
>   ? http://www.cmu.edu/silicon-valley/about-us/directions.html
> Map:
>   ? http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Carnegie+Mellon+Silicon+Valley,+Mountain+View+CA
> Annotated map:
>   ? http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMeetUpInSiliconValley#CmuSvMap
>
> NOTE: At the NASA Ames security gate, show your drivers license and  
> tell the guard that you visit CMU Silicon Valley!
>
> I had an idea: How about visiting NASA Ames before the meetup? They  
> have the biggest & fastest wind tunnels. I know the security chief  
> at NASA Ames and asked him if he could give us a private tour of the  
> NASA Ames Research Center. Unfortunately it is too short notice,  
> they need to run a background check on each participant and that  
> takes time.
>
> Instead, interested folks can visit the nearby Computer History  
> Museum before the meetup at 03:30pm. Cost is $15.00 per person. More  
> about the recently expanded museum at http:// 
> www.computerhistory.org/ . I will prepare for the meetup and thus  
> cannot participate in the museum visit. Anybody would like to take  
> the lead?
>
> Looking forward meeting you all at the meetup!
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
>
> On Sep 22, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Peter Thoeny wrote:
>
>> Dear TWiki users in Silicon Valley and San Francisco bay Area:
>>
>> We organize a TWiki user meetup in the Silicon Valley on Thursday
>> in two weeks, e.g. on 2011-10-06, 05:30pm, place TBD. It is a day
>> after WikiSym, so please join us after WikiSym if plan to go there.
>>
>> RSVP is at
>> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMeetUpInSiliconValley#MeetUp2011x10x06
>>
>> I am looking for a venue to host the meet-up. We could do it again at
>> the Plug and Play Tech Center, a high tech incubation center where
>> Twiki Inc is located. But it would be nice to find a company in the
>> Silicon Valley that is using TWiki that could host us. Please let me
>> know if you have contacts.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> --
>>  * Peter Thoeny, CTO - peter.thoeny.public[at]twiki.net
>>  * http://twiki.net  - Twiki, Inc. - Enterprise Agility
>>  * http://twiki.org  - is your team already TWiki enabled?
>>  * Knowledge cannot be managed, it can be discovered and shared
>>  * This e-mail is:   (_) private    (_) ask first    (x) public
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously  
>> valuable.
>> Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance,  
>> security
>> threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and  
>> makes
>> sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
>> _______________________________________________
>> TWiki-Dev mailing list
>> TWiki-Dev at lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/twiki-dev
>
> -- 
>  * Peter Thoeny                             Peter[at]Thoeny.org
>  * http://twiki.net - Twiki, Inc. - Enterprise Agility
>  * http://twiki.org - is your team already TWiki enabled?
>  * Knowledge cannot be managed, it can be discovered and shared
>  * This e-mail is:   (_) private    (x) ask first    (_) public
>
>
>

-- 
   * Peter Thoeny                             Peter[at]Thoeny.org
   * http://twiki.net - Twiki, Inc. - Enterprise Agility
   * http://twiki.org - is your team already TWiki enabled?
   * Knowledge cannot be managed, it can be discovered and shared
   * This e-mail is:   (_) private    (x) ask first    (_) public




From quinn at fairpath.com  Mon Oct  3 14:25:27 2011
From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 14:25:27 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fw: Perl 5.14.2 is now available
In-Reply-To: <CAFfgvXUY_=CvvgTaoZd6obFTNF9OZK=MLNbVkkZjd46EcMJiuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <p06230918caa93bd0882c@192.168.1.205>
	<CAFfgvXUY_=CvvgTaoZd6obFTNF9OZK=MLNbVkkZjd46EcMJiuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANk4eaXswnhyykqhFbi899p3BOih9vd5atx_ph2d==h9iBXxLw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Joseph Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:

[?]

> There have been some shifts in trends in perl progamming, though,
> e.g. Moose is clearly in and the various "InsideOut" objects are out,
> DBIx::Class is the most popular ORM, though Rose has it's fans,
> Template Toolkit is still leading, though Mason has it's fans, and so
> on.

I second all of this; it matches my experience. Also, Catalyst is
still the dominant MVC framework. Since 2006, all my Perl web work
coming in has been Catalyst work (though there's probably selection
bias there). Most people use Catalyst with Template Toolkit as the
template engine (especially since it's the default one, and it's the
one used in the relevant tutorials IIRC).

-- 
Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC
Full-stack web design and development
http://quinnweaver.com/
510-520-5217

From extasia at extasia.org  Fri Oct  7 14:01:54 2011
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 14:01:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] current choice: XML::Parser or my hair
Message-ID: <CALDD_==Lo_GLPAacqOCKk_t6GfyxZXJ-sUkBBxGzv7v6+PCPMA@mail.gmail.com>

greetings,

i seem to be pulling out my hair on this fine friday afternoon.
trying to install XML::Parser as my last prerequisite for SOAP::Lite.

i try first with cpan.  i get:

cpan> install SOAP::Lite

[...]

---- Unsatisfied dependencies detected during
[M/MK/MKUTTER/SOAP-Lite-0.714.tar.gz] -----
    XML::Parser
Shall I follow them and prepend them to the queue
of modules we are processing right now? [yes]

[to which i answer yes]

[...]

  CPAN.pm: Going to build T/TO/TODDR/XML-Parser-2.41.tar.gz

/nas/home/dalban/.cpan/build/XML-Parser-2.41/assertlibDA1JJiD9: error
while loading shared libraries: libexpat.so.1: cannot open shared
object file: No such file or directory

Expat must be installed prior to building XML::Parser and I can't find
it in the standard library directories. Install 'expat-devel' package with your
OS package manager. See 'README'.

Or you can download expat from:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/expat/

If expat is installed, but in a non-standard directory, then use the
following options to Makefile.PL:

    EXPATLIBPATH=...  To set the directory in which to find libexpat

    EXPATINCPATH=...  To set the directory in which to find expat.h

For example:

    perl Makefile.PL EXPATLIBPATH=/home/me/lib EXPATINCPATH=/home/me/include

so i installed expat-2.0.1 from source into /nas/reg/lib and
/nas/reg/include (my PERL5LIB is /nas/reg/lib/perl5).  retried.  still
complained about not being able to find expat.  so i created these
symlinks:

lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root      23 Oct  7 19:56 /usr/lib/libexpat.a ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.a
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root      24 Oct  7 19:55 /usr/lib/libexpat.la ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.la
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root      24 Oct  7 19:55 /usr/lib/libexpat.so ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root      26 Oct  7 19:55 /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1
-> /nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so.1

lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root      23 Oct  7 20:00 /usr/local/lib/libexpat.a
-> /nas/reg/lib/libexpat.a
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root      24 Oct  7 20:00
/usr/local/lib/libexpat.la -> /nas/reg/lib/libexpat.la
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root      24 Oct  7 20:00
/usr/local/lib/libexpat.so -> /nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root      26 Oct  7 20:01
/usr/local/lib/libexpat.so.1 -> /nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so.1

tried again.  same result.

tried setting these in the environment and rerunning the cpan shell:

export EXPATLIBPATH=/nas/reg/lib
export EXPATINCPATH=/nas/reg/include

no luck.

then i tried a command line install, still with EXPATLIBPATH and
EXTINCPATH defined in the environment.

$ export TREEROOT=/nas/reg ; perl Makefile.PL PREFIX=$TREEROOT
LIB=$TREEROOT/lib/perl LDFLAGS=-L/usr/lib64 EXPATLIBPATH=/nas/reg/lib
EXPATINCPATH=/nas/reg/include 2>&1 | tee -a make.makefile.out
Checking if your kit is complete...
Looks good
Writing Makefile for XML::Parser::Expat
Writing MYMETA.yml and MYMETA.json
Writing Makefile for XML::Parser
Writing MYMETA.yml and MYMETA.json

$ echo $?
0

make also succeeds.  but just when i think i've reached the finish line:

$ sudo make install
make[1]: Entering directory `/nas/home/dalban/dist/XML-Parser-2.41/Expat'
make[1]: Leaving directory `/nas/home/dalban/dist/XML-Parser-2.41/Expat'
Can't coerce array into hash at
/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8/ExtUtils/Install.pm line 94.
make: *** [pure_site_install] Error 255

on http://utlw.blogspot.com/2010/11/one-for-google-bot.html i find:

If you get the following really strange message :
Can't coerce array into hash at
/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8/ExtUtils/Install.pm line 94.

Just do
touch Makefile.PL; make ; make install

Yes you need 2 makes: first one will cause Makefile to be rebuilt with
the same params as used the first time, second one will do the install
you wanted in the first place.

Now the longer question is "WHAT CHANGED?" And I have no answer to that.

so i touch Makefile.PL and do make again.  i get:

Makefile out-of-date with respect to Makefile.PL
Cleaning current config before rebuilding Makefile...
make -f Makefile.old clean > /dev/null 2>&1
/usr/bin/perl Makefile.PL "PREFIX=/nas/reg" "LIB=/nas/reg/lib/perl"
"LDFLAGS=-L/usr/lib64"

Expat must be installed prior to building XML::Parser and I can't find
it in the standard library directories. Install 'expat-devel' package with your
OS package manager. See 'README'.

Or you can download expat from:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/expat/

If expat is installed, but in a non-standard directory, then use the
following options to Makefile.PL:

    EXPATLIBPATH=...  To set the directory in which to find libexpat

    EXPATINCPATH=...  To set the directory in which to find expat.h

For example:

    perl Makefile.PL EXPATLIBPATH=/home/me/lib EXPATINCPATH=/home/me/include

Note that if you build against a shareable library in a non-standard location
you may (on some platforms) also have to set your LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment
variable at run time for perl to find the library.

Checking if your kit is complete...
Looks good
Writing Makefile for XML::Parser::Expat
Writing MYMETA.yml and MYMETA.json
Writing Makefile for XML::Parser
Writing MYMETA.yml and MYMETA.json
==> Your Makefile has been rebuilt. <==
==> Please rerun the make command.  <==
false
make: *** [Makefile] Error 1

if i do make again, i get lots of expat errors:

Expat.c:2687: error: expected ';' before 'parser'
Expat.c:2688: warning: ISO C90 forbids mixed declarations and code
Expat.xs:2194: error: 'parser' undeclared (first use in this function)
Expat.xs:2194: warning: cast to pointer from integer of different size
Expat.xs:2205: warning: unused variable 'pret'
Expat.xs:2194: warning: unused variable 'cbv'
Expat.xs:2192: warning: unused variable 'type'
make[1]: *** [Expat.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/nas/home/dalban/dist/XML-Parser-2.41/Expat'
make: *** [subdirs] Error 2

what am i missing?

thanks,
david

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
***
Just say NO to a police state:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/protect-our-right-to-anonymity.html

From greg at blekko.com  Fri Oct  7 14:08:22 2011
From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 14:08:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] current choice: XML::Parser or my hair
In-Reply-To: <CALDD_==Lo_GLPAacqOCKk_t6GfyxZXJ-sUkBBxGzv7v6+PCPMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALDD_==Lo_GLPAacqOCKk_t6GfyxZXJ-sUkBBxGzv7v6+PCPMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111007210822.GJ22885@bx9.net>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2011 at 02:01:54PM -0700, David Alban wrote:

> so i installed expat-2.0.1 from source into /nas/reg/lib and
> /nas/reg/include (my PERL5LIB is /nas/reg/lib/perl5).

Here's a clue:

[lindahl at greg-desk b]$ rpm -q -l expat-devel
/usr/include/expat.h
/usr/include/expat_external.h
/usr/lib64/libexpat.a
/usr/lib64/libexpat.la
/usr/lib64/libexpat.so
/usr/share/doc/expat-devel-1.95.8
[...]

From extasia at extasia.org  Fri Oct  7 14:37:16 2011
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 14:37:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] current choice: XML::Parser or my hair
In-Reply-To: <20111007210822.GJ22885@bx9.net>
References: <CALDD_==Lo_GLPAacqOCKk_t6GfyxZXJ-sUkBBxGzv7v6+PCPMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111007210822.GJ22885@bx9.net>
Message-ID: <CALDD_=kGrSTC1499mQCAEe2bVKJxRCM0F8J9Pf6v2KpE-dQyVQ@mail.gmail.com>

thanks!

when i expanded my symlink collection to include /usr/lib64::

lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 Oct  7 19:56 /usr/lib/libexpat.a ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.a
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Oct  7 19:55 /usr/lib/libexpat.la ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.la
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Oct  7 19:55 /usr/lib/libexpat.so ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 Oct  7 19:55 /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1 ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so.1
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 Oct  7 21:31 /usr/lib64/libexpat.a ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.a
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Oct  7 21:31 /usr/lib64/libexpat.la ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.la
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Oct  7 21:31 /usr/lib64/libexpat.so ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 Oct  7 21:31 /usr/lib64/libexpat.so.1 ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so.1
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 Oct  7 20:00 /usr/local/lib/libexpat.a ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.a
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Oct  7 20:00 /usr/local/lib/libexpat.la ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.la
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Oct  7 20:00 /usr/local/lib/libexpat.so ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 Oct  7 20:01 /usr/local/lib/libexpat.so.1 ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so.1
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 Oct  7 21:31 /usr/local/lib64/libexpat.a ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.a
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Oct  7 21:31 /usr/local/lib64/libexpat.la ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.la
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Oct  7 21:31 /usr/local/lib64/libexpat.so ->
/nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 Oct  7 21:31 /usr/local/lib64/libexpat.so.1
-> /nas/reg/lib/libexpat.so.1
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Oct  7 19:53 /usr/include/expat.h ->
/nas/reg/include/expat.h
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 33 Oct  7 19:53 /usr/include/expat_external.h
-> /nas/reg/include/expat_external.h
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Oct  7 21:23 /usr/local/include/expat.h ->
/nas/reg/include/expat.h
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 33 Oct  7 21:23
/usr/local/include/expat_external.h ->
/nas/reg/include/expat_external.h

and did what the guy said at
http://utlw.blogspot.com/2010/11/one-for-google-bot.html it worked.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Greg Lindahl <greg at blekko.com> wrote:
> Here's a clue:
>
> [lindahl at greg-desk b]$ rpm -q -l expat-devel
> /usr/include/expat.h
> /usr/include/expat_external.h
> /usr/lib64/libexpat.a
> /usr/lib64/libexpat.la
> /usr/lib64/libexpat.so
> /usr/share/doc/expat-devel-1.95.8
> [...]

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
***
Just say NO to a police state:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/protect-our-right-to-anonymity.html

From extasia at extasia.org  Tue Oct 11 09:26:51 2011
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:26:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] need quick turnaround on this...
Message-ID: <CALDD_=k_K_3ffM-yXu6fMOLsfBZ732qJQ03rrho9E-L=r-Dr6g@mail.gmail.com>

greetings,

a few cow-orkers are in a hackit competition and it would be lovely if
i could get an answer asap for a 10:00 pdt presentation!

getting:

Subroutine XML::Parser::Lite::_parse_re redefined at
/nas/reg/lib/perl/XML/Parser/Lite.pm line 144.
 at /nas/reg/lib/perl/XML/Parser/Lite.pm line 144
        require XML/Parser/Lite.pm called at
/nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 1682
        eval {...} called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 1683
        SOAP::Parser::xmlparser('SOAP::Parser=HASH(0x1095a240)')
called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 1689
        SOAP::Parser::parser('SOAP::Parser=HASH(0x1095a240)') called
at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 1713
        SOAP::Parser::decode('SOAP::Parser=HASH(0x1095a240)',
'<SOAP-ENV:Envelope\x{d}\x{a}\x{9}xmlns:SOAP-ENV="http://schemas.xmlsoap.o...')
called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 2078
        SOAP::Deserializer::decode('SOAP::Deserializer=HASH(0x1095a4a0)',
'<SOAP-ENV:Envelope\x{d}\x{a}\x{9}xmlns:SOAP-ENV="http://schemas.xmlsoap.o...')
called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 2095
        SOAP::Deserializer::deserialize('SOAP::Deserializer=HASH(0x1095a4a0)',
'<SOAP-ENV:Envelope\x{d}\x{a}\x{9}xmlns:SOAP-ENV="http://schemas.xmlsoap.o...')
called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 3734
        eval {...} called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 3734
        SOAP::Lite::call('SOAP::Lite=HASH(0xfd26b30)',
'query_all_rules') called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 3702
        SOAP::Lite::__ANON__[/nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm:3706]('SOAP::Lite=HASH(0xfd26b30)')
called at PerlLocalLbRule.pl line 111
        main::getiRuleDefinitions() called at PerlLocalLbRule.pl line 132
        main::getiRuleList() called at PerlLocalLbRule.pl line 338


anyone seen this before?  i see lots of folks asking on google about
it, but not any useful answers.

thanks!

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
***
Just say NO to a police state:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/protect-our-right-to-anonymity.html

From frimicc at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 09:39:02 2011
From: frimicc at gmail.com (Michael Friedman)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:39:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] need quick turnaround on this...
In-Reply-To: <CALDD_=k_K_3ffM-yXu6fMOLsfBZ732qJQ03rrho9E-L=r-Dr6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALDD_=k_K_3ffM-yXu6fMOLsfBZ732qJQ03rrho9E-L=r-Dr6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <123D6815-7AB3-4F3C-8A66-8DAC7EAD8056@gmail.com>

I've seen similar warnings between XML::LibXML and XML::XPath. They both name an exported subroutine the same, so if you happen to include both of them in a module at the same time you get a warning. 

Try looking for other included modules that also have "sub _parse_re" in them. 

Good luck!
-- Mike 
_________________
Michael Friedman
frimicc at gmail.com



On Oct 11, 2011, at 9:26 AM, David Alban wrote:

> greetings,
> 
> a few cow-orkers are in a hackit competition and it would be lovely if
> i could get an answer asap for a 10:00 pdt presentation!
> 
> getting:
> 
> Subroutine XML::Parser::Lite::_parse_re redefined at
> /nas/reg/lib/perl/XML/Parser/Lite.pm line 144.
> at /nas/reg/lib/perl/XML/Parser/Lite.pm line 144
>        require XML/Parser/Lite.pm called at
> /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 1682
>        eval {...} called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 1683
>        SOAP::Parser::xmlparser('SOAP::Parser=HASH(0x1095a240)')
> called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 1689
>        SOAP::Parser::parser('SOAP::Parser=HASH(0x1095a240)') called
> at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 1713
>        SOAP::Parser::decode('SOAP::Parser=HASH(0x1095a240)',
> '<SOAP-ENV:Envelope\x{d}\x{a}\x{9}xmlns:SOAP-ENV="http://schemas.xmlsoap.o...')
> called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 2078
>        SOAP::Deserializer::decode('SOAP::Deserializer=HASH(0x1095a4a0)',
> '<SOAP-ENV:Envelope\x{d}\x{a}\x{9}xmlns:SOAP-ENV="http://schemas.xmlsoap.o...')
> called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 2095
>        SOAP::Deserializer::deserialize('SOAP::Deserializer=HASH(0x1095a4a0)',
> '<SOAP-ENV:Envelope\x{d}\x{a}\x{9}xmlns:SOAP-ENV="http://schemas.xmlsoap.o...')
> called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 3734
>        eval {...} called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 3734
>        SOAP::Lite::call('SOAP::Lite=HASH(0xfd26b30)',
> 'query_all_rules') called at /nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm line 3702
>        SOAP::Lite::__ANON__[/nas/reg/lib/perl/SOAP/Lite.pm:3706]('SOAP::Lite=HASH(0xfd26b30)')
> called at PerlLocalLbRule.pl line 111
>        main::getiRuleDefinitions() called at PerlLocalLbRule.pl line 132
>        main::getiRuleList() called at PerlLocalLbRule.pl line 338
> 
> 
> anyone seen this before?  i see lots of folks asking on google about
> it, but not any useful answers.
> 
> thanks!
> 
> -- 
> Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
> ***
> Just say NO to a police state:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/protect-our-right-to-anonymity.html
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From extasia at extasia.org  Tue Oct 11 09:46:02 2011
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:46:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] need quick turnaround on this...
In-Reply-To: <123D6815-7AB3-4F3C-8A66-8DAC7EAD8056@gmail.com>
References: <CALDD_=k_K_3ffM-yXu6fMOLsfBZ732qJQ03rrho9E-L=r-Dr6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<123D6815-7AB3-4F3C-8A66-8DAC7EAD8056@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALDD_=m5nrCobug4Eb5wtiTqW=qW7Say_XiEg5mDnfa0-dukbA@mail.gmail.com>

thanks.

here are the libs we're using:

use lib "/nas/reg/lib/perl";
use SOAP::Lite;
use File::Basename;
use Math::BigInt;
use Data::Dumper;

/nas/reg/lib/perl -> perl5/

is the tree in which SOAP::Lite is installed.

this seems to be a fatal error, not a warning.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Michael Friedman <frimicc at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've seen similar warnings between XML::LibXML and XML::XPath. They both name an exported subroutine the same, so if you happen to include both of them in a module at the same time you get a warning.
>
> Try looking for other included modules that also have "sub _parse_re" in them.
>
> Good luck!

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
***
Just say NO to a police state:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/protect-our-right-to-anonymity.html

From fobispo at isc.org  Tue Oct 11 09:48:26 2011
From: fobispo at isc.org (Francisco Obispo)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:48:26 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] need quick turnaround on this...
In-Reply-To: <CALDD_=m5nrCobug4Eb5wtiTqW=qW7Say_XiEg5mDnfa0-dukbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALDD_=k_K_3ffM-yXu6fMOLsfBZ732qJQ03rrho9E-L=r-Dr6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<123D6815-7AB3-4F3C-8A66-8DAC7EAD8056@gmail.com>
	<CALDD_=m5nrCobug4Eb5wtiTqW=qW7Say_XiEg5mDnfa0-dukbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2E6EA39D-40FF-44DF-831A-8D006393F57C@isc.org>

which perl version are you using?


On Oct 11, 2011, at 9:46 AM, David Alban wrote:

> thanks.
> 
> here are the libs we're using:
> 
> use lib "/nas/reg/lib/perl";
> use SOAP::Lite;
> use File::Basename;
> use Math::BigInt;
> use Data::Dumper;
> 
> /nas/reg/lib/perl -> perl5/
> 
> is the tree in which SOAP::Lite is installed.
> 
> this seems to be a fatal error, not a warning.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Michael Friedman <frimicc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've seen similar warnings between XML::LibXML and XML::XPath. They both name an exported subroutine the same, so if you happen to include both of them in a module at the same time you get a warning.
>> 
>> Try looking for other included modules that also have "sub _parse_re" in them.
>> 
>> Good luck!
> 
> -- 
> Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
> ***
> Just say NO to a police state:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/protect-our-right-to-anonymity.html
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

Francisco Obispo 
email: fobispo at isc.org
Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC
Key fingerprint = 532F 84EB 06B4 3806 D5FA  09C6 463E 614E B38D B1BE






From extasia at extasia.org  Tue Oct 11 09:53:14 2011
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:53:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] need quick turnaround on this...
In-Reply-To: <2E6EA39D-40FF-44DF-831A-8D006393F57C@isc.org>
References: <CALDD_=k_K_3ffM-yXu6fMOLsfBZ732qJQ03rrho9E-L=r-Dr6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<123D6815-7AB3-4F3C-8A66-8DAC7EAD8056@gmail.com>
	<CALDD_=m5nrCobug4Eb5wtiTqW=qW7Say_XiEg5mDnfa0-dukbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<2E6EA39D-40FF-44DF-831A-8D006393F57C@isc.org>
Message-ID: <CALDD_=k6erW-swH3Y+in5T=+giyLtejXXxaBsW9pV68UcR-q_g@mail.gmail.com>

$ uname -a ; perl -v
Linux xxxxxxx 2.6.18-92.1.18.el5 #1 SMP Wed Nov 5 09:00:19 EST 2008
x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

This is perl, v5.8.8 built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi

also, 144 is the line it's complaining about (Subroutine
XML::Parser::Lite::_parse_re redefined at
/nas/reg/lib/perl/XML/Parser/Lite.pm line 144.):

    128 sub _parse_re {
    129     use re "eval";
    130     undef $^R;
    131     no strict 'refs';
    132     1 while $_[0] =~ m{$REGEXP}go
    133 };
    134
    135 # fixup regex if it does not work...
    136 {
    137     if (not eval { _parse_re('<soap:foo
xmlns:soap="foo">bar</soap:foo>'); 1; } ) {
    138         $REGEXP = _regexp();
    139         local $^W;
    140         *_parse_re = sub {
    141                 use re "eval";
    142                 undef $^R;
    143                 1 while $_[0] =~ m{$REGEXP}go
    144             };
    145     }
    146 }

thanks!

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Francisco Obispo <fobispo at isc.org> wrote:
> which perl version are you using?

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
***
Just say NO to a police state:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/protect-our-right-to-anonymity.html

From fobispo at isc.org  Tue Oct 11 10:14:16 2011
From: fobispo at isc.org (Francisco Obispo)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:14:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] need quick turnaround on this...
In-Reply-To: <CALDD_=m5nrCobug4Eb5wtiTqW=qW7Say_XiEg5mDnfa0-dukbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALDD_=k_K_3ffM-yXu6fMOLsfBZ732qJQ03rrho9E-L=r-Dr6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<123D6815-7AB3-4F3C-8A66-8DAC7EAD8056@gmail.com>
	<CALDD_=m5nrCobug4Eb5wtiTqW=qW7Say_XiEg5mDnfa0-dukbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC2193F1-389B-443D-966D-63D6A739370E@isc.org>

I think you need to stick a:


 no warnings 'redefine';

in line 139..

BTW: Soap::Lite seems very ugly. I will remind myself not to use it ;-)



On Oct 11, 2011, at 9:46 AM, David Alban wrote:

> thanks.
> 
> here are the libs we're using:
> 
> use lib "/nas/reg/lib/perl";
> use SOAP::Lite;
> use File::Basename;
> use Math::BigInt;
> use Data::Dumper;
> 
> /nas/reg/lib/perl -> perl5/
> 
> is the tree in which SOAP::Lite is installed.
> 
> this seems to be a fatal error, not a warning.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Michael Friedman <frimicc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've seen similar warnings between XML::LibXML and XML::XPath. They both name an exported subroutine the same, so if you happen to include both of them in a module at the same time you get a warning.
>> 
>> Try looking for other included modules that also have "sub _parse_re" in them.
>> 
>> Good luck!
> 
> -- 
> Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
> ***
> Just say NO to a police state:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/protect-our-right-to-anonymity.html
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

Francisco Obispo 
email: fobispo at isc.org
Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC
Key fingerprint = 532F 84EB 06B4 3806 D5FA  09C6 463E 614E B38D B1BE






From gatorreina at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 11:57:48 2011
From: gatorreina at gmail.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:57:48 -0500
Subject: [sf-perl] regex help
Message-ID: <CAKLxnzb64Uwj+=2qwSMxeDxNeQQmhYSXOLWLjWU=bWsOFnrCMg@mail.gmail.com>

I have a file that has list of some sentences.  Some of them are numbered so
I am going in circles trying to figure out how to remove the numbering.  The
file is in the following format:

    12. blah blah, blah blah blah. blah.
 29. blah blah, blah.
   19. blah blah blah.

I am looking for a way to capture everything after the first dot so as to
remove the numbering.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Richard
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From sphink at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 12:00:50 2011
From: sphink at gmail.com (Steve Fink)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 12:00:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] regex help
In-Reply-To: <CAKLxnzb64Uwj+=2qwSMxeDxNeQQmhYSXOLWLjWU=bWsOFnrCMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKLxnzb64Uwj+=2qwSMxeDxNeQQmhYSXOLWLjWU=bWsOFnrCMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+80VKirTrPu-K_Y01Hj1re1AC6MO5MV7oDSmXh4hB1Bjs1r5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Option 1:

s/^\s*\d+\.\s*//;

Option 2:

my ($sentence) = /^(?:\s*\d+\.\s*)?(.*)/;

or if you want to strip whitespace from the beginning of non-numbered
lines as well:

my ($sentence) = /^\s*(?:\d+\.\s*)?(.*)/;

2011/10/11 Richard Reina <gatorreina at gmail.com>:
> I have a file that has list of some sentences.? Some of them are numbered so
> I am going in circles trying to figure out how to remove the numbering.? The
> file is in the following format:
>
> ??? 12. blah blah, blah blah blah. blah.
> ?29. blah blah, blah.
> ?? 19. blah blah blah.
>
> I am looking for a way to capture everything after the first dot so as to
> remove the numbering.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
>

From david at fetter.org  Tue Oct 11 12:02:55 2011
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 12:02:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] regex help
In-Reply-To: <CAKLxnzb64Uwj+=2qwSMxeDxNeQQmhYSXOLWLjWU=bWsOFnrCMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKLxnzb64Uwj+=2qwSMxeDxNeQQmhYSXOLWLjWU=bWsOFnrCMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111011190255.GA13527@fetter.org>

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 01:57:48PM -0500, Richard Reina wrote:
> I have a file that has list of some sentences.  Some of them are numbered so
> I am going in circles trying to figure out how to remove the numbering.  The
> file is in the following format:
> 
>     12. blah blah, blah blah blah. blah.
>  29. blah blah, blah.
>    19. blah blah blah.

This looks to me like you might need:

s{
    \s*    # Any number of whitespace characters.
    \d+    # Any positive number of digits.
    \.     # Literal period.
    \s*    # Any number of whitespace characters.
    (.*)   # The rest(TM)
}
{
    $1
}x;

Cheers,
David.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From dan at keller.com  Tue Oct 11 12:01:48 2011
From: dan at keller.com (Dan Keller)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 12:01:48 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] regex help
In-Reply-To: <CAKLxnzb64Uwj+=2qwSMxeDxNeQQmhYSXOLWLjWU=bWsOFnrCMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKLxnzb64Uwj+=2qwSMxeDxNeQQmhYSXOLWLjWU=bWsOFnrCMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E94929C.9080101@keller.com>

Assuming you have a shell and the sed command:

sed "s/^[^.][^.]*\.//" < inputfile > outputfile

-- 
Dan Keller
dan at keller.com
http://www.dan.keller.com
+1 (415) 861-4500



On 10/11/2011 11:57 AM, Richard Reina wrote:
> I have a file that has list of some sentences.  Some of them are 
> numbered so I am going in circles trying to figure out how to remove 
> the numbering.  The file is in the following format:
>
>     12. blah blah, blah blah blah. blah.
>  29. blah blah, blah.
>    19. blah blah blah.
>
> I am looking for a way to capture everything after the first dot so as 
> to remove the numbering.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

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From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 12:16:31 2011
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 12:16:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] regex help
In-Reply-To: <CA+80VKirTrPu-K_Y01Hj1re1AC6MO5MV7oDSmXh4hB1Bjs1r5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKLxnzb64Uwj+=2qwSMxeDxNeQQmhYSXOLWLjWU=bWsOFnrCMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+80VKirTrPu-K_Y01Hj1re1AC6MO5MV7oDSmXh4hB1Bjs1r5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ4sp-X-Pf0wC54aHhSLc4Sq6LyX2gyA_Cg7Ua16viVkp1B+kg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Steve Fink <sphink at gmail.com> wrote:

> ...
> Option 2:
>
> my ($sentence) = /^(?:\s*\d+\.\s*)?(.*)/;
>
> or if you want to strip whitespace from the beginning of non-numbered
> lines as well:
>
> my ($sentence) = /^\s*(?:\d+\.\s*)?(.*)/;
>

+1 for this solution, as it doesn't assume numbers/spaces at the beginning
of each line; the OP's post made it sound like their presence wasn't
guaranteed.
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From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Fri Oct 14 13:26:47 2011
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 13:26:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Pegex and Acmeism
Message-ID: <CAHrynWA=j237_W83UMo18kyJTMn5FzE80i6tJfuf0yvOD3OJpA@mail.gmail.com>

Our next meeting is Tuesday October 25 at 7pm at Citizen Space.

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/37420612/

Acmeism (http://acmeism.org) is the ability to think about and express
one's creative ideas, beyond language borders. In programming, this
means creating things that benefit multiple languages and communities.
Perl is effectively one great community with 2 great languages (Perl 5
and Perl 6). Acmeism is essential to mongers, but kindly extends to
pythonistas, brigadiers and nodelings as well.

Pegex is an Acmeist parsing language. Think of it as Perl 6 Rules and
Regexp::Grammars for all programmers. Write One Grammar, Parse
Everywhere. This makes Pegex the quintessential tool in the Acmeist's
belt. Pegex.pm is fully functional in Perl 5, and working it's way
across the Acmeist landscape.

Come see Ingy d?t Net (an inventor of YAML and the father of Acmeism)
talk about Pegex and the exciting future of Acmeism.

Ingy d?t Net - http://ingy.net/

Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce

From not.com at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 06:00:26 2011
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 09:00:26 -0400
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Pegex and Acmeism
In-Reply-To: <CAHrynWA=j237_W83UMo18kyJTMn5FzE80i6tJfuf0yvOD3OJpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrynWA=j237_W83UMo18kyJTMn5FzE80i6tJfuf0yvOD3OJpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG2CFAaBK5rvpZqzX1FZRXCyBz3tAt_TjRb-k3bh3qeHMT_y=Q@mail.gmail.com>

> ... Acmeism (http://acmeism.org) ...

?There's a problem with the home page that distracts from is noble premise:

"Most people learn one natural (spoken) language. Most computer
programmers learn one programming language."

Most people on earth now and historically are bilingual, modern USA is
a monolinguistic anomaly. And do you know any programmers who only
learned one programming language? Is it even possible to get a job as
a programmer if you only know one programming language? grrr.

And even the US has standard English vs. colloquial dialects, akin to
speaking perl 5.14 at home and perl 5.8 at work, not different
languages but still slightly different modes to switch among.

There are many definitions of language and of being bilingual, so it's
a quibble that can't be argued precisely. My quick search of the web
turns up estimates saying 50%-75% of the world's population being
multilingual. But why detract from an otherwise decent introduction?

From rdm at cfcl.com  Sat Oct 15 11:08:19 2011
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 11:08:19 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Pegex and Acmeism
In-Reply-To: <CAG2CFAaBK5rvpZqzX1FZRXCyBz3tAt_TjRb-k3bh3qeHMT_y=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrynWA=j237_W83UMo18kyJTMn5FzE80i6tJfuf0yvOD3OJpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAG2CFAaBK5rvpZqzX1FZRXCyBz3tAt_TjRb-k3bh3qeHMT_y=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06230921cabf7b542b10@[192.168.1.205]>

At 9:00 AM -0400 10/15/11, yary wrote:
> Is it even possible to get a job as a programmer if you
> only know one programming language? grrr.

I recall chatting with a software manager who said that he
wanted to have all of his developers using the same language
(Ruby, in this case).

I suggested that even in a supposedly Ruby shop, developers
would typically work in several other languages, including
CSS, HTML, JavaScript, and XML.  Not to mention dialects and
DSLs such as Chef, ERuby, jQuery, rake, etc.

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Software system design, development, and documentation

From rdm at cfcl.com  Sun Oct 16 10:54:48 2011
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 10:54:48 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] episodic cloud-based computation?
Message-ID: <p06230929cac0ca8abb00@[192.168.1.205]>

I have a prospective need for some episodic cloud-based
computation.  For example, I might need one or two dozen
Linux instances for about two seconds each, but not need
them (at least initially) more than a few times per day.

My plan is to use Chef to set things up, so I should be
pretty flexible about vendors, etc.  Given all of this,
what cloud providers are likely to be able to give me a
good deal for keeping my instances around and running
them at need?

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Software system design, development, and documentation

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Sun Oct 16 12:16:17 2011
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joseph Brenner)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 12:16:17 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Pegex and Acmeism
In-Reply-To: <p06230921cabf7b542b10@192.168.1.205>
References: <CAHrynWA=j237_W83UMo18kyJTMn5FzE80i6tJfuf0yvOD3OJpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAG2CFAaBK5rvpZqzX1FZRXCyBz3tAt_TjRb-k3bh3qeHMT_y=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230921cabf7b542b10@192.168.1.205>
Message-ID: <CAFfgvXW7aX25RKx9gcKfLeF98JG59i9EfOck475mjMNf-NX5Rw@mail.gmail.com>

Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
>  yary wrote:
>> Is it even possible to get a job as a programmer if you
>> only know one programming language? grrr.
>
> I recall chatting with a software manager who said that he
> wanted to have all of his developers using the same language
> (Ruby, in this case).
>
> I suggested that even in a supposedly Ruby shop, developers
> would typically work in several other languages, including
> CSS, HTML, JavaScript, and XML. ?Not to mention dialects and
> DSLs such as Chef, ERuby, jQuery, rake, etc.

That's one of the reasons that I think the "mental exercise" argument
for learning another language is pretty weak.  I'm someone who's
more-or-less a "perl programmer", but I couldn't avoid using a
half-dozen languages (of one sort or another) if I wanted to.  And I
could easily spend my life getting mental exercise by learning my way
around new CPAN modules.

From rdm at cfcl.com  Sun Oct 16 12:53:11 2011
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 12:53:11 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Pegex and Acmeism
In-Reply-To: <CAFfgvXW7aX25RKx9gcKfLeF98JG59i9EfOck475mjMNf-NX5Rw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrynWA=j237_W83UMo18kyJTMn5FzE80i6tJfuf0yvOD3OJpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAG2CFAaBK5rvpZqzX1FZRXCyBz3tAt_TjRb-k3bh3qeHMT_y=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230921cabf7b542b10@192.168.1.205>
	<CAFfgvXW7aX25RKx9gcKfLeF98JG59i9EfOck475mjMNf-NX5Rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0623092bcac0e40eb59a@[192.168.1.205]>

At 12:16 PM -0700 10/16/11, Joseph Brenner wrote:
> That's one of the reasons that I think the "mental exercise"
> argument for learning another language is pretty weak.  I'm
> someone who's more-or-less a "perl programmer", but I
> couldn't avoid using a half-dozen languages (of one sort or
> another) if I wanted to.  And I could easily spend my life
> getting mental exercise by learning my way around new CPAN
> modules.

  "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about
   programming, is not worth knowing."

  -- EPIGRAMS IN PROGRAMMING
     http://www.cs.yale.edu/quotes.html

     From ACM's SIGPLAN publication, (September, 1982),
     Article "Epigrams in Programming", by Alan J. Perlis
     of Yale University.

Some of the languages I work with are very similar to each
other.  JSON and YAML (at least, the parts I use) are close
enough to fit in the same mental pigeonhole.  Ruby, Perl,
and JavaScript are also pretty close cousins, though the OO
implementations vary substantially.

However, I think there _is_ something to be learned from a
language that approaches things very differently than the
ones you already know.  So, I've been working my way through

  "Learn You a Haskell for Great Good"
  http://learnyouahaskell.com/

It's very readable and approachable and has given me several
ideas that have found their way into my code (which is NOT
in Haskell).

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Software system design, development, and documentation

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Sun Oct 16 13:36:37 2011
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joseph Brenner)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:36:37 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Pegex and Acmeism
In-Reply-To: <p0623092bcac0e40eb59a@192.168.1.205>
References: <CAHrynWA=j237_W83UMo18kyJTMn5FzE80i6tJfuf0yvOD3OJpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAG2CFAaBK5rvpZqzX1FZRXCyBz3tAt_TjRb-k3bh3qeHMT_y=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230921cabf7b542b10@192.168.1.205>
	<CAFfgvXW7aX25RKx9gcKfLeF98JG59i9EfOck475mjMNf-NX5Rw@mail.gmail.com>
	<p0623092bcac0e40eb59a@192.168.1.205>
Message-ID: <CAFfgvXUciJQp7+=kEH=47Xdc7DQTi=5yTerLn=ocqgDFb577XA@mail.gmail.com>

Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
> Joseph Brenner wrote:
>> That's one of the reasons that I think the "mental exercise"
>> argument for learning another language is pretty weak. ?I'm
>> someone who's more-or-less a "perl programmer", but I
>> couldn't avoid using a half-dozen languages (of one sort or
>> another) if I wanted to. ?And I could easily spend my life
>> getting mental exercise by learning my way around new CPAN
>> modules.
>
> ?"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about
> ? programming, is not worth knowing."

Just for arguments sake, I would suggest adopting a different
methodology is what that's really about, where the assumption is that
the language is going to bring that with it.  But you can do something
similar with a bit of discipline ("This time, let's do this with
callbacks and closures instead of objects").

> However, I think there _is_ something to be learned from a
> language that approaches things very differently than the
> ones you already know.

Sure, and left to my own devices I'd be more interested in
scheme/guile than small variations of perl.  Or maybe erlang or go or
something.

From biztos at mac.com  Sun Oct 16 13:58:22 2011
From: biztos at mac.com (Kevin Frost)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:58:22 +0200
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Pegex and Acmeism
In-Reply-To: <CAG2CFAaBK5rvpZqzX1FZRXCyBz3tAt_TjRb-k3bh3qeHMT_y=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrynWA=j237_W83UMo18kyJTMn5FzE80i6tJfuf0yvOD3OJpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAG2CFAaBK5rvpZqzX1FZRXCyBz3tAt_TjRb-k3bh3qeHMT_y=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0141964-3604-4A88-AD92-57CDC1679A9A@mac.com>

I love this thread because I love thinking about natural languages and computer languages and how they interrelate, especially in the context of the very "linguistic" Perl.

However, I can never be an Acmeist, because:

> Acmeism is the belief that language naturally tends to divide people and ideas...

...and I couldn't disagree more.

( my $statement = $acme_statement ) =~ s/divide/enrich/;

I speak three languages, which is about average in my peer group, nothing special.  It is perhaps worth noting that the last few wars in Europe were between people who had no difficulty communicating with each other.

I don't think I know any Perl programmer who only programs in one language.  I know a Python guy who claims to only do Python but I don't believe him (I think he does Javascript too).

What I find particularly fun is when multilingual people write multilingual code ? variables in English, comments in German, that sort of thing.

My 0.02 EUR.

cheers

-- frosty

PS, "not.com" - brilliant. :-)

On Oct 15, 2011, at 3:00 PM, yary wrote:

>> ... Acmeism (http://acmeism.org) ...
> 
>  There's a problem with the home page that distracts from is noble premise:
> 
> "Most people learn one natural (spoken) language. Most computer
> programmers learn one programming language."
> 
> Most people on earth now and historically are bilingual, modern USA is
> a monolinguistic anomaly. And do you know any programmers who only
> learned one programming language? Is it even possible to get a job as
> a programmer if you only know one programming language? grrr.
> 
> And even the US has standard English vs. colloquial dialects, akin to
> speaking perl 5.14 at home and perl 5.8 at work, not different
> languages but still slightly different modes to switch among.
> 
> There are many definitions of language and of being bilingual, so it's
> a quibble that can't be argued precisely. My quick search of the web
> turns up estimates saying 50%-75% of the world's population being
> multilingual. But why detract from an otherwise decent introduction?
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From quinn at fairpath.com  Sun Oct 16 14:37:44 2011
From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:37:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Pegex and Acmeism
In-Reply-To: <CAFfgvXUciJQp7+=kEH=47Xdc7DQTi=5yTerLn=ocqgDFb577XA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrynWA=j237_W83UMo18kyJTMn5FzE80i6tJfuf0yvOD3OJpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAG2CFAaBK5rvpZqzX1FZRXCyBz3tAt_TjRb-k3bh3qeHMT_y=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230921cabf7b542b10@192.168.1.205>
	<CAFfgvXW7aX25RKx9gcKfLeF98JG59i9EfOck475mjMNf-NX5Rw@mail.gmail.com>
	<p0623092bcac0e40eb59a@192.168.1.205>
	<CAFfgvXUciJQp7+=kEH=47Xdc7DQTi=5yTerLn=ocqgDFb577XA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANk4eaXvHCz38zh-5dEOBZSWbyO7FqZaQcb=dH2NfJ71M4Uo_g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Joseph Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com> wrote:
>> Joseph Brenner wrote:
>>> That's one of the reasons that I think the "mental exercise"
>>> argument for learning another language is pretty weak. ?I'm
>>> someone who's more-or-less a "perl programmer", but I
>>> couldn't avoid using a half-dozen languages (of one sort or
>>> another) if I wanted to. ?And I could easily spend my life
>>> getting mental exercise by learning my way around new CPAN
>>> modules.
>>
>> ?"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about
>> ? programming, is not worth knowing."
>
> Just for arguments sake, I would suggest adopting a different
> methodology is what that's really about, where the assumption is that
> the language is going to bring that with it. ?But you can do something
> similar with a bit of discipline ("This time, let's do this with
> callbacks and closures instead of objects").

Just to continue the argument, I'd say it depends on the language(s)
you're working in. Most languages won't let you do anything like Lisp
macros. Some won't let you do closures. Perl won't let you have
private or protected members or methods in your objects (if you do
Perl OO the canonical way), which has led to really tortuous
workarounds. You can argue that private data aren't really an
important feature anyway, but it's an example.

In some cases, Language A will let you use a technique from Language
B, but it's not a good idea. For instance, most languages let you do
tail recursion, but it can blow up the stack because they don't do
tail call elimination. So you're better off writing iterative code.

--
Quinn Weaver
PostgreSQL Experts, Inc.
http://pgexperts.com/
1-888-743-9778 (my extension: 510)

From james at ActionMessage.com  Sun Oct 16 15:42:29 2011
From: james at ActionMessage.com (James Briggs)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:42:29 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] episodic cloud-based computation?
In-Reply-To: <p06230929cac0ca8abb00@[192.168.1.205]>
References: <p06230929cac0ca8abb00@[192.168.1.205]>
Message-ID: <20111016222623.M76847@actionmessage.com>

Hi Rich.

Cloud linux instances are usually billed by the hour, which doesn't match
your computing granularity of two seconds.

Here's some more details ...

Specifically:

- "Partial instance hours consumed are billed as full hours" on AWS
  See http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/#pricing

- typically it takes minutes to startup and terminate instances on
  AWS, overwhelming your actual usage of two seconds.

- each vendor uses their own API for creation and termination of
  instances, so the portability that you imply doesn't exist
  unless you use RightScale ($500/month) or something else

- If you keep your instance around and running, then it would be billed
  for the entire duration of that.

Some alternatives that involve billing at the granularity you want are:

- The closest thing to what you want is prolly Google AppEngine, but
they don't run Perl programs.
- You can get a hosting account on a large host like GoDaddy, and run your
jobs as CGI programs across their load-balanced web clusters.
- Some people have also exploited other SaaS APIs, like Salesforce.com,
as low-cost compute farms.

Thanks, James.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 10:54:48 -0700, Rich Morin wrote
> I have a prospective need for some episodic cloud-based
> computation.  For example, I might need one or two dozen
> Linux instances for about two seconds each, but not need
> them (at least initially) more than a few times per day.
> 
> My plan is to use Chef to set things up, so I should be
> pretty flexible about vendors, etc.  Given all of this,
> what cloud providers are likely to be able to give me a
> good deal for keeping my instances around and running
> them at need?
> 
> -r



From rdm at cfcl.com  Sun Oct 16 16:02:47 2011
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 16:02:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] episodic cloud-based computation?
In-Reply-To: <20111016222623.M76847@actionmessage.com>
References: <p06230929cac0ca8abb00@[192.168.1.205]>
	<20111016222623.M76847@actionmessage.com>
Message-ID: <p0623092ecac1102009e7@[192.168.1.205]>

At 3:42 PM -0700 10/16/11, James Briggs wrote:
> Hi Rich.

Hi, James.  Long time, no see...


> Cloud linux instances are usually billed by the hour,
> which doesn't match your computing granularity ...

Understood.  However, cloud computing is also a fertile
area for economic and technical experimentation, so I'm
hoping that something appropriate may surface.

For example, someone might offer a service that charges
a minimal fee for having apps "rolled out" and real $$$
for rolling them in and running them.


> - The closest thing to what you want is prolly Google
>   AppEngine, but they don't run Perl programs.

In this case, I need to run a proprietary Windows app,
via Wine.  So, AppEngine is a non-starter.


> - You can get a hosting account on a large host like
>   GoDaddy, and run your jobs as CGI programs across
>   their load-balanced web clusters.

Not a bad suggestion.  I assume I'd pay mostly for CPU
usage and such.


> - Some people have also exploited other SaaS APIs,
>   like Salesforce.com, as low-cost compute farms.

I'd be interested in knowing more about this approach.

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Software system design, development, and documentation

From josh at agliodbs.com  Mon Oct 17 10:02:28 2011
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:02:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] episodic cloud-based computation?
In-Reply-To: <20111016222623.M76847@actionmessage.com>
References: <p06230929cac0ca8abb00@[192.168.1.205]>
	<20111016222623.M76847@actionmessage.com>
Message-ID: <4E9C5FA4.6060303@agliodbs.com>

Rich,

I've been using GoGrid for testing client projects.  Their webGUI for
controlling instances is quite user-friendly, and I like their simple
pricing model which lets me know exactly how much I'll be paying for X
time (unlike AWS).  Also, the individual cloud machines are MUCH faster
than anything Amazon will promise you.

Several other PGX'ers have been using Linode; I don't know how that
compares, or if it even runs Windows.

-- 
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://pgexperts.com

From quinn at pgexperts.com  Mon Oct 17 10:05:25 2011
From: quinn at pgexperts.com (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:05:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] episodic cloud-based computation?
In-Reply-To: <4E9C5FA4.6060303@agliodbs.com>
References: <p06230929cac0ca8abb00@[192.168.1.205]>
	<20111016222623.M76847@actionmessage.com>
	<4E9C5FA4.6060303@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <075DA8B3-0AD5-4055-A8CB-4AB024875FC4@pgexperts.com>

On Oct 17, 2011, at 10:02 AM, Josh Berkus wrote:

> Rich,
> 
> I've been using GoGrid for testing client projects.  Their webGUI for
> controlling instances is quite user-friendly, and I like their simple
> pricing model which lets me know exactly how much I'll be paying for X
> time (unlike AWS).  Also, the individual cloud machines are MUCH faster
> than anything Amazon will promise you.
> 
> Several other PGX'ers have been using Linode; I don't know how that
> compares, or if it even runs Windows.

Linode is per-month. It's like Slicehost.

--
Quinn Weaver
PostgreSQL Experts, Inc.
http://pgexperts.com/
1-888-743-9778 (my extension: 510)



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From gatorreina at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 11:42:47 2011
From: gatorreina at gmail.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:42:47 -0500
Subject: [sf-perl] Undefined Soubroutine
Message-ID: <CAKLxnzbuPPu22e8SpSqcwUqz9PMvqy_mtPocK=jSKNwAL9uLuQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have a module called Fax.pm that submits faxes to a local fax server. It
is called by another program called User_utilities.pl.  Everything has
worked great for years until recently when I added the following lines to
Fax.pm

require "/usr/local/src/rushclient/rush_opps/get_hist.pl";
my $hist = get_hist();

The problem is that sometimes I *SOMETIMES* I get:

Undefined subroutine &Fax::get_hist called at Fax.pm line 130.

After getting this error if I restart User_utilities.pl and try again it
works. However, if User_utilities.pm is left running and I try to use Fax.pm
again, I get the error again.

Does anyone know what might be causing this error and what I might do to fix
it?
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From quinn at pgexperts.com  Mon Oct 17 12:15:41 2011
From: quinn at pgexperts.com (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:15:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Undefined Soubroutine
In-Reply-To: <CAKLxnzbuPPu22e8SpSqcwUqz9PMvqy_mtPocK=jSKNwAL9uLuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKLxnzbuPPu22e8SpSqcwUqz9PMvqy_mtPocK=jSKNwAL9uLuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69665575-3989-4739-8A13-8D3131464348@pgexperts.com>

On Oct 17, 2011, at 11:42 AM, Richard Reina wrote:

> I have a module called Fax.pm that submits faxes to a local fax server. It is called by another program called User_utilities.pl.  Everything has worked great for years until recently when I added the following lines to Fax.pm
> 
> require "/usr/local/src/rushclient/rush_opps/get_hist.pl";
> my $hist = get_hist();
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this line 130?


> The problem is that sometimes I *SOMETIMES* I get:
> 
> Undefined subroutine &Fax::get_hist called at Fax.pm line 130.
> 


> After getting this error if I restart User_utilities.pl and try again it works. However, if User_utilities.pm is left running and I try to use Fax.pm again, I get the error again.
> 
> Does anyone know what might be causing this error and what I might do to fix it?

In general, the problem is that 'require' happens at runtime, and can be conditional, so you have to be really careful. If any other code in your program calls get_hist() before Fax.pm hits that 'require' call, then get_hist will not be defined yet and you'll get this error.

The best solution is to convert get_hist.pl to a module and 'use' it instead of 'require'ing it. Then the subroutine will be defined at compile time and ready for code anywhere in your program to call it.

--
Quinn Weaver
PostgreSQL Experts, Inc.
http://pgexperts.com/
1-888-743-9778 (my extension: 510)



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From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon Oct 17 13:08:29 2011
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:08:29 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Mojolicious 2.0 released
Message-ID: <CAHrynWDAQJwxSgbBt5MmKALOy+gvR+C6rtE7vdVXfmnyNZAPtg@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone here using Mojolicious?

http://blog.kraih.com/mojolicious-20-released-perl-real-time-web-fr

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Tue Oct 18 09:21:48 2011
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 09:21:48 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Reminder - Pegex and Acmeism next Tuesday
Message-ID: <CAHrynWALPH4MZxEDNS8hJQtPq172rvxofJL_4v=LsULsvQ5JQg@mail.gmail.com>

We'll be back at Citizen Space next week to see Ingy dot Net talk
about Pegex and Acmeism.  If you have missed one of Ingy's stellar
performances at YAPC or other Perl conferences, you should definitely
come to this meeting.  Citizen Space is near 2nd and Bryant, a short
walk from the Montgomery Bart station on Market, and Caltrain.

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/37420612/

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Tue Oct 18 09:24:08 2011
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 09:24:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Issue #12 of the Perl Weekly is out
Message-ID: <CAHrynWCSwOADTbxPU7sSVva5gp4WS8N0paSuxhvzgBXrVp8pFQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://perlweekly.com/archive/12.html

http://twitter.com/szabgab/status/126290962078117888

From rdm at cfcl.com  Fri Oct 21 12:06:54 2011
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:06:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] "Lee" is looking for a new position
Message-ID: <p06230952cac770dcb211@[192.168.1.205]>

A friend ("Lee") is considering a bit of a career change.
I'm hoping some folks on this list might have some useful
suggestions, know of possible opportunities, etc.

Lee is currently employed, so I won't be getting specific
in this note.  Feel free, however, to contact me off-list
if you need more details and/or want to contact Lee.

-r


Lee has a variety of useful skills, acquired from decades
of experience in the computer and biotech industries:

  * Information architecture and content management

  * Mac and Unix system administration and use

  * Scripting (mostly Perl, but also Awk, Make, Ruby,
    Shell, TWiki, etc.)  Scripting is Lee's home turf.

  * Technical writing and editing (eg, copy editing,
    formatting, organizing, word-smithing)

  * Web languages (eg, CSS, HTML, JavaScript)


A lot of what Lee brings to the party lies in the area of
information gathering and analysis.  Here is a typical
comment from a former "customer":

  Lee is the kind of person who "hears" what it is you are
  saying, and then gives you what you want, which may not
  be exactly what you asked for -- but much better!"


Lee isn't exactly sure what an ideal position would look
like, but says "I'll know it when I see it".  However, Lee
offers the following general information:

  * Lee's interests include scientific programming, data
    filters, knowledge management, and social media.

  * Lee enjoys code review, code cleanup, and bug hunting.

  * Lee's passion is helping others to be more productive.

  * Lee enjoys sharing knowledge, whether in the form of
    course development and training, answering questions,
    or creating documentation.

  * Lee prefers developing internal tools to externally-
    visible applications, creating internal documentation
    to external publications, etc.

  * Lee strongly prefers to work closely with users:

    I don't like development projects where the users are
    "somewhere out there".  I want a direct connection to
    the people I work for.  I want to  solve real problems
    for real people with real needs, not something thought
    up by a marketing department.  I want to be able to
    communicate directly with my customers.

-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Software system design, development, and documentation

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Fri Oct 21 12:16:24 2011
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:16:24 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Reminder - Pegex and Acmeism next Tuesday
In-Reply-To: <CAHrynWALPH4MZxEDNS8hJQtPq172rvxofJL_4v=LsULsvQ5JQg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrynWALPH4MZxEDNS8hJQtPq172rvxofJL_4v=LsULsvQ5JQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <938C37DE0B054869BB064412BDC567D4@redhotpenguin.com>

Just another reminder, we have our next meeting in 4 days at Citizen Space. Come on over for a great talk, and the usual gathering of big brains.

On Tuesday, October 18, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Fred Moyer wrote:

> We'll be back at Citizen Space next week to see Ingy dot Net talk
> about Pegex and Acmeism. If you have missed one of Ingy's stellar
> performances at YAPC or other Perl conferences, you should definitely
> come to this meeting. Citizen Space is near 2nd and Bryant, a short
> walk from the Montgomery Bart station on Market, and Caltrain.
> 
> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/37420612/



From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon Oct 24 17:50:31 2011
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 17:50:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Reminder - Pegex and Acmeism next Tuesday
In-Reply-To: <938C37DE0B054869BB064412BDC567D4@redhotpenguin.com>
References: <CAHrynWALPH4MZxEDNS8hJQtPq172rvxofJL_4v=LsULsvQ5JQg@mail.gmail.com>
	<938C37DE0B054869BB064412BDC567D4@redhotpenguin.com>
Message-ID: <CAHrynWAgY=hHDRKbpCadgiYWVP5GH8JgOjK_7fNmPO3EeYFB+w@mail.gmail.com>

Last reminder email, then I'll go back to posting random perl bits :)
We'll have chips and soda tomorrow night at Citizenspace for Ingy's
talk.

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/37420612/

On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
> Just another reminder, we have our next meeting in 4 days at Citizen Space. Come on over for a great talk, and the usual gathering of big brains.
>
> On Tuesday, October 18, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Fred Moyer wrote:
>
>> We'll be back at Citizen Space next week to see Ingy dot Net talk
>> about Pegex and Acmeism. If you have missed one of Ingy's stellar
>> performances at YAPC or other Perl conferences, you should definitely
>> come to this meeting. Citizen Space is near 2nd and Bryant, a short
>> walk from the Montgomery Bart station on Market, and Caltrain.
>>
>> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/37420612/
>
>
>

From moseley at hank.org  Tue Oct 25 00:27:16 2011
From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:57:16 +0530
Subject: [sf-perl] Fun and cool Perl examples
Message-ID: <CAKhN_m4kOu=T-qR=8wrpAnhcw00BC5JzQoex1T6c--bUdQSaaA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm currently visiting an orphanage and associated school in India.  Some of
the older (15-18 years) kids are leaning some basic MySQL and Java in
school.   The school has a pretty good computer lab with a dozen or so
machines running XP and Windows 7, and there's a small group that are trying
to learn Linux and have installed Ubuntu on USB thumb drives.

They are interested in learning a little about Perl, so I'm planning on
providing a basic introduction.  That will be pretty easy, but what would
help me is some ideas for some fun demonstrations.  They don't have to be
that practical but something that will pique their interest in a few lines
of code.  Or maybe even something a bit more involved but related to what
their current interestes, for example, working with the Facebook API.

Suggestions?

Thanks,

-- 
Bill Moseley
moseley at hank.org
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From matt at lanier.org  Tue Oct 25 07:40:18 2011
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 07:40:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] Fun and cool Perl examples
In-Reply-To: <CAKhN_m4kOu=T-qR=8wrpAnhcw00BC5JzQoex1T6c--bUdQSaaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhN_m4kOu=T-qR=8wrpAnhcw00BC5JzQoex1T6c--bUdQSaaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1110250739090.17769@aurora.cloudfactory.org>


First, major props to you for what you are doing.

second, I'm using the notion of 'mad libs' to start teaching programming 
to my kids.  they learn how to set up a text template, collect some data, 
interpolate some variables into the template, then giggle when the results 
come out in funny ways.

m@

  On Tue, 25 Oct 2011, Bill Moseley wrote:

> I'm currently visiting an orphanage and associated school in India. ?Some of the older (15-18 years) kids are leaning some basic MySQL and Java in school. ? The school has a pretty good computer lab with a dozen or so machines
> running XP and Windows 7, and there's a small group that are trying to learn Linux and have installed Ubuntu on USB thumb drives.
> They are interested in learning a little about Perl, so I'm planning on providing a basic introduction. ?That will be pretty easy, but what would help me is some ideas for some fun demonstrations. ?They don't have to be that
> practical but something that will pique their interest in a few lines of code. ?Or maybe even something a bit more involved but related to what their current interestes, for example, working with the Facebook API.
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --
> Bill Moseley
> moseley at hank.org
> 
>

From frimicc at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 10:07:18 2011
From: frimicc at gmail.com (Michael Friedman)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:07:18 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fun and cool Perl examples
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1110250739090.17769@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <CAKhN_m4kOu=T-qR=8wrpAnhcw00BC5JzQoex1T6c--bUdQSaaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LRH.2.02.1110250739090.17769@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <AA2E3DFE-CA66-4430-B43A-D1C38857B23A@gmail.com>

Bill,

Wow, that's got to be an interesting experience. 

I think using Facebook is probably a great idea, assuming the kids already have FB accounts and know how to use it. You can say, "See? All these FB apps were written by someone. You can write one too. Here's an easy way to do it."

https://metacpan.org/release/Facebook

The Facebook module on CPAN looks pretty straightforward, too. Especially for doing simple things like getting a list of all your friends, which could bring a smile to any kid's (real) face.

Good luck!

-- Mike 
_________________
Michael Friedman
frimicc at gmail.com



On Oct 25, 2011, at 7:40 AM, Matthew Lanier wrote:

> 
> First, major props to you for what you are doing.
> 
> second, I'm using the notion of 'mad libs' to start teaching programming to my kids.  they learn how to set up a text template, collect some data, interpolate some variables into the template, then giggle when the results come out in funny ways.
> 
> m@
> 
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2011, Bill Moseley wrote:
> 
>> I'm currently visiting an orphanage and associated school in India.  Some of the older (15-18 years) kids are leaning some basic MySQL and Java in school.   The school has a pretty good computer lab with a dozen or so machines
>> running XP and Windows 7, and there's a small group that are trying to learn Linux and have installed Ubuntu on USB thumb drives.
>> They are interested in learning a little about Perl, so I'm planning on providing a basic introduction.  That will be pretty easy, but what would help me is some ideas for some fun demonstrations.  They don't have to be that
>> practical but something that will pique their interest in a few lines of code.  Or maybe even something a bit more involved but related to what their current interestes, for example, working with the Facebook API.
>> Suggestions?
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Bill Moseley
>> moseley at hank.org
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From mgrimes at cpan.org  Tue Oct 25 10:24:23 2011
From: mgrimes at cpan.org (Mark Grimes)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 13:24:23 -0400
Subject: [sf-perl] Fun and cool Perl examples
In-Reply-To: <CAKhN_m4kOu=T-qR=8wrpAnhcw00BC5JzQoex1T6c--bUdQSaaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhN_m4kOu=T-qR=8wrpAnhcw00BC5JzQoex1T6c--bUdQSaaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADPEu4FekLWCc2aspwYCzz7PSG_rpp6vR5tw1vSwqVGntoZM2A@mail.gmail.com>

Bill,

You might want to look at some of the SDL based games that have been
put together recently. In my experience SDL can be a bit of a
challenge to install (at least on a Mac), but there has been a
tremendous amount of work done on the bindings and some really
impressive apps. A good starting point might be this blog:

  http://yapgh.blogspot.com/

Best,
Mark

From peter at thoeny.org  Tue Oct 25 10:32:35 2011
From: peter at thoeny.org (Peter Thoeny)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:32:35 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: [Perlweekly] The current Perl Weekly News - Issue #13
References: <20111024094336.D1C3A76E2B6@s6.hostlocal.com>
Message-ID: <F959DD27-29EF-4CC0-B98D-52B22CD628B7@thoeny.org>

New Perl Weekly issue by Gabor Szabo. Subscribe if you like it.

Cheers,
Peter


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Gabor Szabo <gabor at szabgab.com>
> Date: October 24, 2011 2:43:36 AM PDT
> To: perlweekly at perlweekly.com
> Subject: [Perlweekly] The current Perl Weekly News - Issue #13
>
> Perl Weekly
>
> Issue #13 - October 24, 2011
>
> You can read the newsletter on the web, if you prefer.
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to embark on a new series of promotions for the Perl Weekly  
> and I need your help in this. By far the best source of new  
> subscribers is referrals by already satisfied users.
>
> So if you like the Perl Weekly, I'd like to ask you to forward this  
> issue to your co-workers and suggest they subscribe.
>
> Now to the posts:
>
> Headlines
>
> Mojolicious 2.0 released: Perl real-time web framework
> Congratulation to Sebastian Riedel (sri) and the rest of the  
> Mojolicious team! A number of significant changes were listed in the  
> announcement. For example the minimum required version of perl was  
> moved up to 5.10.1 and Morbo was added. Morbo is the self-restarting  
> development web server that just works, even on Windows.
>
> Teaching a Modern Perl Class in NYC!
> John Napiorkowski is running an 8-week long Perl class introducing  
> Modern Perl to people new to Perl. This seems like a great  
> opportunity to send a friend of you to learn Perl on a very low cost  
> training class.
>
> Module testing basics
> Jacinta Richardson has just sent out the latest issue of the Perl  
> Tips. This is a great overview of why you need to write automated  
> tests. She is also describing the two major testing strategies:  
> White Box Testing and Black Box Testing. In addition, if you were  
> subscribed to their perl-tips newsletter, you'd get a discount on  
> their next training course.
>
> Articles
>
> Dreamwidth News
> After more than 2 months of absence, Denise, one of the two owners  
> of the site, has posted a longish update on what's going on at  
> Dreamwidth. In case you don't know, DreamWidth is an open source  
> fork of the LiveJournal system with a very open policy of publishing  
> content.
>
> Simple config for the perl debugger
> Chisel gives some very useful tips on how to configure the built-in  
> command line debugger of Perl.
>
> CPAN modules for parsing User-Agent strings
> Another excellent post by Neil Bowers comparing modules to parse the  
> User-Agent strings passed by browsers to web servers. It sounds like  
> a simple problem but due to the 'interesting' decisions made by the  
> browser authors it became an annoyance. Having so many different  
> solutions to this problem just adds to the confusion so I think it  
> is great Neil compared them and recommended one.
>
> Taming Pod::Weaver, part 2 - Plugins, Sections and Bundles
> Yanick Champoux continuous describing how to use Pod::Weaver.  
> Specifically he described plugins, sections and bundles
>
> ElasticSearch::Sequence - a blazing fast ticket server
> Clinton Gormley is considering ditching RDBM for his next  
> application and using ElasticSearch as the only data store. For this  
> he wanted to have a human friendly way to get unique sequence  
> numbers from ElasticSearch.
>
> Discussion
>
> Why do you want new major features in core?
> Some people complain that 5.12 and 5.14 have not added many new user  
> visible features to Perl. Leon Timmermans asks why do we want them.  
> I think the more interesting question would be 'What new features do  
> you want in core Perl?' and that's what some people answered. That's  
> what you should also consider and post as a comment.
>
> Code
>
> Splicing two sockets in Perl (request for help)
> Peter Makholm describes a sequence of operations he has implemented  
> several times already - something like a proxy - and how this was  
> getting frustrating to do so and how it was not working really well.  
> So he is proposing a new module to wrap splice(2) of Linux.
>
> Parrot
>
> Parrot 3.9.0 'Archaeopteryx' Released
> Posted by Jonathan 'Duke' Leto
>
> Perl 6
>
> An optimizer lands, bringing native operators
> Jonathan Worthington describes his work that will be included in the  
> October release of Rakudo. This brings the performance of Rakudo, in  
> some very specific cases, to be - let me be careful here - not too  
> far from that of Perl 5.
>
> Event reports
>
> yapc asia: awesome
> Lovely report by Ricardo Signes (rjbs)
>
> Listing of all (?) the blogs posts about YAPC::Asia Tokyo 2011
> Daisuke Maki (lestrrat) points out that they collected more than 150  
> blog posts about YAPC::Asia. Most of them are in Japanese of course  
> but there are a number of entries in English for the rest of us. I  
> think this is awesome to have so much publicity and to provide some  
> sort of recognition to the bloggers themselves.
>
> German Perl Workshop
> This is the report of the 3rd day of the German Perl Workshop by  
> Wolfgang Kinkeldei. Links to the previous reports can be found in  
> the comments.
>
> Events
>
> Twin City Perl Workshop
> November 4-5, 2011, Vienna, Austria and Bratislava, Slovakia
>
> London Perl Workshop (LPW2011)
> November 12, 2011, London, UK
>
> The Perl Oasis
> January 13-15, 2012, Orlando, Florida, USA
>
> You joined the Perl Weekly to get weekly e-mails about the Perl  
> programming language and related topics.
> Want to see more? See the archives of all the issues.
> Reading this as a non-subscriber? click here to join us free of  
> charge.
> (c) Gabor Szabo
>
> You can unsubscribe here if you don't want to receive mails any more.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Perlweekly mailing list
> Perlweekly at perlweekly.com
> http://mail.perlweekly.com/mailman/listinfo/perlweekly

-- 
   * Peter Thoeny                             Peter[at]Thoeny.org
   * http://twiki.net - Twiki, Inc. - Enterprise Agility
   * http://twiki.org - is your team already TWiki enabled?
   * Knowledge cannot be managed, it can be discovered and shared
   * This e-mail is:   (_) private    (x) ask first    (_) public



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From peter at thoeny.org  Tue Oct 25 10:37:38 2011
From: peter at thoeny.org (Peter Thoeny)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:37:38 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fun and cool Perl examples
In-Reply-To: <CAKhN_m4kOu=T-qR=8wrpAnhcw00BC5JzQoex1T6c--bUdQSaaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhN_m4kOu=T-qR=8wrpAnhcw00BC5JzQoex1T6c--bUdQSaaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <95FFFAE9-4678-4729-9550-1E0828188D6D@thoeny.org>

Hi Bill,

I commend you for volunteering for people in needs!

How about getting advise from people who teach Perl to beginners? For  
example, you could contact John Napiorkowski who is teaching a Perl  
Class in NYC (found in Perl Weekly I just forwarded to this list).

Cheers,
Peter


On Oct 25, 2011, at 12:27 AM, Bill Moseley wrote:

> I'm currently visiting an orphanage and associated school in India.   
> Some of the older (15-18 years) kids are leaning some basic MySQL  
> and Java in school.   The school has a pretty good computer lab with  
> a dozen or so machines running XP and Windows 7, and there's a small  
> group that are trying to learn Linux and have installed Ubuntu on  
> USB thumb drives.
>
> They are interested in learning a little about Perl, so I'm planning  
> on providing a basic introduction.  That will be pretty easy, but  
> what would help me is some ideas for some fun demonstrations.  They  
> don't have to be that practical but something that will pique their  
> interest in a few lines of code.  Or maybe even something a bit more  
> involved but related to what their current interestes, for example,  
> working with the Facebook API.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- 
> Bill Moseley
> moseley at hank.org
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

-- 
   * Peter Thoeny                             Peter[at]Thoeny.org
   * http://twiki.net - Twiki, Inc. - Enterprise Agility
   * http://twiki.org - is your team already TWiki enabled?
   * Knowledge cannot be managed, it can be discovered and shared
   * This e-mail is:   (_) private    (x) ask first    (_) public




From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Tue Oct 25 17:36:00 2011
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:36:00 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Reminder - Pegex and Acmeism next Tuesday
In-Reply-To: <CAHrynWAgY=hHDRKbpCadgiYWVP5GH8JgOjK_7fNmPO3EeYFB+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrynWALPH4MZxEDNS8hJQtPq172rvxofJL_4v=LsULsvQ5JQg@mail.gmail.com>
	<938C37DE0B054869BB064412BDC567D4@redhotpenguin.com>
	<CAHrynWAgY=hHDRKbpCadgiYWVP5GH8JgOjK_7fNmPO3EeYFB+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD88BC0775264976A9311A2DA67416A7@redhotpenguin.com>

Ok one more reminder email - and it is possible that we may have a *very* special guest tonight. Can't say for sure, just a tweet I saw.

On Monday, October 24, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:

> Last reminder email, then I'll go back to posting random perl bits :)
> We'll have chips and soda tomorrow night at Citizenspace for Ingy's
> talk.
> 
> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/37420612/
> 
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com (mailto:fred at redhotpenguin.com)> wrote:
> > Just another reminder, we have our next meeting in 4 days at Citizen Space. Come on over for a great talk, and the usual gathering of big brains.
> > 
> > On Tuesday, October 18, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Fred Moyer wrote:
> > 
> > > We'll be back at Citizen Space next week to see Ingy dot Net talk
> > > about Pegex and Acmeism. If you have missed one of Ingy's stellar
> > > performances at YAPC or other Perl conferences, you should definitely
> > > come to this meeting. Citizen Space is near 2nd and Bryant, a short
> > > walk from the Montgomery Bart station on Market, and Caltrain.
> > > 
> > > http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/37420612/



From josh at agliodbs.com  Wed Oct 26 17:15:12 2011
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:15:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Reminder - Pegex and Acmeism next Tuesday
In-Reply-To: <CAHrynWAgY=hHDRKbpCadgiYWVP5GH8JgOjK_7fNmPO3EeYFB+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrynWALPH4MZxEDNS8hJQtPq172rvxofJL_4v=LsULsvQ5JQg@mail.gmail.com>	<938C37DE0B054869BB064412BDC567D4@redhotpenguin.com>
	<CAHrynWAgY=hHDRKbpCadgiYWVP5GH8JgOjK_7fNmPO3EeYFB+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EA8A290.2020602@agliodbs.com>

On 10/24/11 5:50 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:
> Last reminder email, then I'll go back to posting random perl bits :)
> We'll have chips and soda tomorrow night at Citizenspace for Ingy's
> talk.

BTW, next time we have a meeting at CitizenSpace, ping me about
sponsoring food.  I ended up leaving early because I was starving ... I
hadn't realized I was supposed to eat first.

They have an oven, no?

-- 
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://pgexperts.com

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Oct 26 22:30:53 2011
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 22:30:53 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Reminder - Pegex and Acmeism next Tuesday
In-Reply-To: <4EA8A290.2020602@agliodbs.com>
References: <CAHrynWALPH4MZxEDNS8hJQtPq172rvxofJL_4v=LsULsvQ5JQg@mail.gmail.com>
	<938C37DE0B054869BB064412BDC567D4@redhotpenguin.com>
	<CAHrynWAgY=hHDRKbpCadgiYWVP5GH8JgOjK_7fNmPO3EeYFB+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EA8A290.2020602@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <80803C2636E340D98BE7A4882C682669@redhotpenguin.com>

On Wednesday, October 26, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Josh Berkus wrote:
> BTW, next time we have a meeting at CitizenSpace, ping me about
> sponsoring food. I ended up leaving early because I was starving ... I
> hadn't realized I was supposed to eat first.
> 
> They have an oven, no?
I think they do, but I am not sure of the space rental covers use of the kitchen.  We had chips and Halloween cookies there.  What other kind of snacks would tide you over?

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Oct 26 22:34:26 2011
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 22:34:26 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Great meeting last night
Message-ID: <0886152F52714AE9BA9C3378E5B7795C@redhotpenguin.com>

 It was great to see an unexpected huge crowd (27?) show up last night to see Ingy's talk. And a surprise visit from Larry W., wow! 

I retweeted @miyagawa's flickr set, so I'll mention it here also:

http://twitter.com/#!/miyagawa/status/129260973717590016

If you have pictures from last night, please post them to the list. 



From eruby at knowledgematters.net  Fri Oct 28 11:27:47 2011
From: eruby at knowledgematters.net (Earl Ruby)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:27:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Modern Perl tutorials
Message-ID: <CAPBkEshgmtE7Sa2i590Jod9pp6=dN9936FKwboS7ytS=tW6=SA@mail.gmail.com>

First there was a /. post about Perl being unreadable:

http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/10/27/213231/is-perl-better-than-a-randomly-generated-programming-language?ss=0

... which spawned a really good discussion about Bad Perl Tutorials:

http://blogs.perl.org/users/mithaldu/2011/10/perl-tutorials-suck-and-cause-serious-damage.html

Seems like the obvious answer is to start posting blog articles that
link to good tutorials on modern Perl programming techniques, and to
contact people hosting old, outdated pages and ask them to update the
info or take it down.

I'll start: http://earlruby.org/learn-perl/

Anyone have any favorite Perl tutorials that cover Perl 5.10+ techniques?

-- 
Earl Ruby
http://earlruby.org/