From szabgab at gmail.com  Sun Jul  4 01:25:07 2010
From: szabgab at gmail.com (Gabor Szabo)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 11:25:07 +0300
Subject: [sf-perl] [Oracle][events] Oracle Open World and other tech events
Message-ID: <AANLkTimdf6xWufjk2XUU0BDdC2OKTiw9onyi1HDQYh_H@mail.gmail.com>

Hi SF.pm,

as you might know I am maintaining a list of events on the wiki
of The Perl Foundation that can be interesting to Perl developers
to attend. http://www.socialtext.net/perl5/index.cgi?events


Currently I have only one event listed there in San Franciso:

2010.09.19-23  Oracle Open World http://www.oracle.com/us/openworld/index.htm

I wonder if any of the Perl Mongers is planning to attend.
Is there any possibility to give there a talk on how Perl is used with Oracle?
Is there any plan to setup a Perl related booth?


Could you ppl help me list more tech related events in, or near by
San Francisco?

regards
   Gabor

-- 
Gabor Szabo                     http://szabgab.com/
IRC: szabgab on irc.perl.org or on irc.freenode.net

From tkeefer at ebay.com  Tue Jul  6 11:08:58 2010
From: tkeefer at ebay.com (Keefer, Tim)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:08:58 -0600
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Job - Web Software Engineer - eBay
Message-ID: <C858BF4A.67A2%tkeefer@ebay.com>

Hi,

Our group has a full-time position open for a Perl developer. If interested please apply. Also, send me your info so you don?t get lost in the land of HR.

https://sjobs.brassring.com/1033/asp/tg/cim_jobdetail.asp?jobId=1222368&PartnerId=13746&SiteId=195&type=mail&JobReqLang=1&recordstart=1&JobSiteId=195&JobSiteInfo=1222368_195&gqid=0

Cheers,
-Tim

From szabgab at gmail.com  Wed Jul  7 11:26:19 2010
From: szabgab at gmail.com (Gabor Szabo)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 21:26:19 +0300
Subject: [sf-perl] [Bugzilla][event] Fwd: The First Bugzilla Users &
	Administrators Group Meeting!
In-Reply-To: <4C33D116.6010708@bugzilla.org>
References: <4C33D116.6010708@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikTQ4tpXEQ1Cddp5oDne7OhbMs7nL2O_Hfwq60J@mail.gmail.com>

FYI

this might be a good opportunity to get some Bugzilla folks to join the SF.pm
meetings.

regards
   Gabor

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Max Kanat-Alexander <mkanat at bugzilla.org>
Date: Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 3:57 AM
Subject: The First Bugzilla Users & Administrators Group Meeting!
To: developers at bugzilla.org, support-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org


? ? ? ?Hey Bugzilla users and developers! The WikiMedia Foundation in San
Francisco has offered to host a meet-up for Bugzilla Users,
Administrators, and Developers at their office! Pretty neat. We're
hoping to do this once a quarter. The first meeting is on Wednesday,
August 4, at 7pm.

? ? ? ?This is a group for anybody who uses or administers Bugzilla. I will be
in attendance and talking about what's up with Bugzilla development,
demoing new features of 4.0, and generally answering any questions you
may have about Bugzilla. Then we're going to have a general group
discussion.

? ? ? ?At our first meeting, the group discussion is going to focus on project
management--how do you do project management with Bugzilla? Are there
other tools that you use? Are there features that you'd like to see in
Bugzilla that would help with Project Management? We may even work out a
group of developers to start working on some project management
extensions for Bugzilla, if there's an interest.

? ? ? ?In addition to all of this, we're hoping to have free food and drinks,
and there will be time to generally socialize, etc. Everybody is
welcome, and attendance is free, but limited to 20 people. (However, if
we're at the limit and you still want to come, email me directly and
I'll see if I can get you on the guest list.) It's at the Wikimedia
Foundation in San Francisco, right in SoMa, so there's a lot to do
afterward. If there's interest, we may even all go do something or other
afterward, based on the suggestions of the folks at Wikimedia who are
familiar with the area.

? ? ? ?You can RSVP for the group here:

? ? ? ?http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/6584059

? ? ? ?Look forward to seeing you there!

? ? ? ?-Max

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Thu Jul  8 09:07:48 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:07:48 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [javascript] JS toolkit for Perl applications
Message-ID: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>

A bit off topic, but wondering what people are using for Javascript
toolkits for their Perl based web applications.

JQuery?  MooTools?  YUI?

From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu  Thu Jul  8 09:10:00 2010
From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:10:00 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [javascript] JS toolkit for Perl applications
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin_0QzHRtLwSEE92oXu_q5m3YuMY-BR4zzxfkkn@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
> A bit off topic, but wondering what people are using for Javascript
> toolkits for their Perl based web applications.
>
> JQuery? ?MooTools? ?YUI?

I've just started venturing into this area, but Dojo works quite well for me...

                                     -Chris
-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris, scientia

From sean at mckennaprod.com  Thu Jul  8 09:16:01 2010
From: sean at mckennaprod.com (Sean McKenna)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:16:01 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [javascript] JS toolkit for Perl applications
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim3fkroyeB1Vlb4PKE8ff_wPEkto-FplE-29C6m@mail.gmail.com>

I tried several a few years ago and settled on JQuery and it has
worked out well for all our Perl based apps.

On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
> A bit off topic, but wondering what people are using for Javascript
> toolkits for their Perl based web applications.
>
> JQuery? ?MooTools? ?YUI?
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Thu Jul  8 09:29:34 2010
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:29:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [javascript] JS toolkit for Perl applications
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim3fkroyeB1Vlb4PKE8ff_wPEkto-FplE-29C6m@mail.gmail.com>
	(Sean McKenna's message of "Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:16:01 -0700")
References: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim3fkroyeB1Vlb4PKE8ff_wPEkto-FplE-29C6m@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86lj9maqdt.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Sean" == Sean McKenna <sean at mckennaprod.com> writes:

Sean> I tried several a few years ago and settled on JQuery and it has
Sean> worked out well for all our Perl based apps.

John Resig (creator of jQuery) is also an old-time Perl hacker... I find
jQuery's design meshes well with my Perl-ish mind.

Listen to my interview with John Resig at http://twit.tv/floss55.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

From not.com at gmail.com  Thu Jul  8 09:41:23 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:41:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [javascript] JS toolkit for Perl applications
In-Reply-To: <86lj9maqdt.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
References: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim3fkroyeB1Vlb4PKE8ff_wPEkto-FplE-29C6m@mail.gmail.com>
	<86lj9maqdt.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimB6yz9O5SV2-b4ZuADBA8as0FRHEsZcZsMjLPG@mail.gmail.com>

I quite liked ExtJS when I was delving into those waters, though that
was about 3 years ago. I'd look at them again if I were on a job that
incorporated AJAX. Looks like they're riding the HTML5 device wave
with Sencha now.

-y

From quinn at fairpath.com  Thu Jul  8 09:51:20 2010
From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:51:20 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [javascript] JS toolkit for Perl applications
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimwew2X_FUELSgzZ7ym1zIppOCjkcEjPqVv1mCl@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
> A bit off topic, but wondering what people are using for Javascript
> toolkits for their Perl based web applications.
>
> JQuery? ?MooTools? ?YUI?

jQuery.  It's a really nice little Swiss Army knife, easy to pick up
and start using.  A little code in jQuery gets a lot done.  Like a
good Swiss Army Knife, it has exotic attachments for seldom-done tasks
(e.g. drag-and-drop), which are also pretty easy.

More recently I've picked up Dojo, at a client's behest.  It's pretty
good too, but very different philosophically; it's all about widgets
that you embed in your code by applying special dojo* attributes to
regular HTML entities.  The effect is that you get nice widgets with
various magical behaviors (autocompleting
combination-text-and-drop-down boxes, for instance, or Excel-like
grids).  The downside is that you end up with presentation logic in
your markup and it breaks validation.  (The jQuery approach is,
instead, to put all your JavaScript in a separate .js file and let it
access your HTML entities using selectors?e.g. entity type, class
attribute, or id attribute, although you can use fancier criteria.)

I know jQuery has a widget extension, but I haven't used it; I've only
used Dojo widgets.

Anyway? there are lots of good toolkits out there, but jQuery is my
favorite.  It seems to be the majority choice among hackers I know.
But Dojo is not bad at all.

-- 
Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC
Full-stack web design and development
http://quinnweaver.com/
510-520-5217

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Thu Jul  8 13:37:11 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:37:11 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [javascript] JS toolkit for Perl applications
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilWKRa2liM5qTsXxLnyZA4f6aV-OezwPf2OFnLQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 09:07, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
> A bit off topic, but wondering what people are using for Javascript
> toolkits for their Perl based web applications.
>
> JQuery? ?MooTools? ?YUI?

We use jQuery and think it's great.

Another option if you want to go heavy is Google's Closure which they
open sourced recently-ish, http://code.google.com/closure/ (I've only
used it internally; not the OSS one).

jQuery code _does_ look weird, that's my only real beef with it...

Paul

From biztos at mac.com  Thu Jul  8 17:09:51 2010
From: biztos at mac.com (Kevin Frost)
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] [javascript] JS toolkit for Perl applications
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a2cbbc51-3673-cc6d-c5f5-c43fa1574c95@me.com>

I recommend jQuery. ?I've done a fair bit in YUI too and while it's very powerful, it's also very heavyweight and toolkit-y and therefore unlikely to make a Perl hacker happy.

One tip: if you're using jQuery *do* use the compatibility mode, in which your jQuery magic-chain-function is called $j and not just $ - that will save you tons of debugging headache and prevent non-jQuery JS developers from hating you.

One other: if the primary UI component happens to be a dynamic sortable table, YUI might be worth it after all, because their data table implementation is really really good.

Oh and another: if you need charts, check out Flot.

-- f

On Jul 08, 2010, at 09:07 AM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:

A bit off topic, but wondering what people are using for Javascript
toolkits for their Perl based web applications.

JQuery? MooTools? YUI?
_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
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From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Thu Jul  8 18:57:37 2010
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 18:57:37 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [javascript] JS toolkit for Perl applications
In-Reply-To: <a2cbbc51-3673-cc6d-c5f5-c43fa1574c95@me.com> (Kevin Frost's
	message of "Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:09:51 -0700 (PDT)")
References: <a2cbbc51-3673-cc6d-c5f5-c43fa1574c95@me.com>
Message-ID: <86zky1a032.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Kevin" == Kevin Frost <biztos at mac.com> writes:

Kevin> One tip: if you're using jQuery *do* use the compatibility mode,
Kevin> in which your jQuery magic-chain-function is called $j and not
Kevin> just $ - that will save you tons of debugging headache and
Kevin> prevent non-jQuery JS developers from hating you.

Naah.  Just pass jQuery in as a parameter:

    (function ($) {
    ...
        use $ here as normal
    ...
    })(jQuery);

Works fine, and doesn't scare the people who don't use Prototype.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

From shlomif at iglu.org.il  Fri Jul  9 01:41:12 2010
From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:41:12 +0300
Subject: [sf-perl] [javascript] JS toolkit for Perl applications
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201007091141.12545.shlomif@iglu.org.il>

On Thursday 08 Jul 2010 19:07:48 Fred Moyer wrote:
> A bit off topic, but wondering what people are using for Javascript
> toolkits for their Perl based web applications.
> 
> JQuery?  MooTools?  YUI?

Like most people who have replied, I've been using jQuery , and I've picked it 
up because from my impression it seemed like the JS toolkit with the best 
reputation. (And it also has a cool name). It's OK for what I use it for, 
though I don't push it to the limits.

Wikipedia says about MooTools that: "In contrast to other JavaScript libraries 
like jQuery, MooTools extends DOM objects, which is a controversial 
practice.", which is kinda worrying.

Some resources for learning jQuery:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwKq7_JlS8 - a video that is an 
introduction to jQuery. The main problem there is that it's hard to tell which 
DOM elements are being selected and manipulated on the fly.

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LKDImgRfrg&feature=channel - "Best 
Practices in JavaScript Library Design" - not really teaching jQuery, but 
explaining the motivation behind its design.

3. Naturally, there's the jQuery documentation page: http://docs.jquery.com/ 
which requires a little browsing.

---------------

I should note that the size of the jQuery payload has considerably increased 
lately, which makes me worried about my performance.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
First stop for Perl beginners - http://perl-begin.org/

God considered inflicting XSLT as the tenth plague of Egypt, but then
decided against it because he thought it would be too evil.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Fri Jul  9 01:46:55 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 01:46:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [javascript] JS toolkit for Perl applications
In-Reply-To: <201007091141.12545.shlomif@iglu.org.il>
References: <AANLkTilmC0td7gUWVrpyiIYSPEpLZGMBNRJ11LBCY4Qe@mail.gmail.com> 
	<201007091141.12545.shlomif@iglu.org.il>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik7fIG6nzIU2bDrXSNdK6xnLJ9vNd8vNIcShgGP@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 01:41, Shlomi Fish <shlomif at iglu.org.il> wrote:
> I should note that the size of the jQuery payload has considerably increased
> lately, which makes me worried about my performance.

Hey, as for performance anxiety, don't let anyone tell you size doesn't matter!

P

From extasia at extasia.org  Mon Jul 12 11:30:21 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:30:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] help with matching?
Message-ID: <AANLkTilRewj_Z5qyc6AlOwyOwHXpi_0oWG0J0ZUVj2qT@mail.gmail.com>

greetings,

i'm trying to capture the ip address and the two fully qualified hostnames.

this is my output.  the three lines citing "use of uninitialized
values" are fine.  i printed more captured variables than i figured
were captured.

what i can't figure out is why $9 captured the domain ('.srwd15.com')
rather than the fully qualified hostname ('srwd15hst001.srwd15.com').
the fact that $9 has the same value as $8 makes me think a portion of
the match failed, but i can't see which portion, if that's the case.

Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at junk.perl
line 66, <$FH> line 1073.
Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at junk.perl
line 66, <$FH> line 1073.
Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at junk.perl
line 66, <$FH> line 1073.
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] vhosts_line =>
'10.80.15.14     srwd15abx001.srwd15.com   srwd15hst001.srwd15.com  '
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 1 => '10.80.15.14'
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 2 => '10'
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 3 => '80'
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 4 => '15'
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 5 => '14'
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 6 =>
'srwd15abx001.srwd15.com'
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 7 => 'srwd15abx001'
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 8 => '.srwd15.com'
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 9 => '.srwd15.com'
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 10 => 'srwd15hst001'
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 11 => '.srwd15.com'
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 12 => ''
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 13 => ''
2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 14 => ''
$VAR1 = qr/(?msx-i: \A \s* (?x-ism: ( ( \d{1,3} ) [.] ( \d{1,3} ) [.]
( \d{1,3} ) [.] ( \d{1,3} ) ) ) \s+ (?x-ism: ( ( \w+ ) ( [.] \w+ [.]
\w+ )? ) ) \s+ (?x-ism: ( ( \w+ ) ( [.] \w+ [.] \w+ )? ) ) \s* \z )/;

here is the line to parse (excluding the single quotes):

'10.80.15.14     srwd15abx001.srwd15.com   srwd15hst001.srwd15.com  '

here is my attempt to make the regex more human readable [edited above
line by hand--best viewed with non-proportional font:]

qr/
  (?msx-i:
    \A
      \s*
        (?x-ism: (
                       ( \d{1,3} )
                   [.] ( \d{1,3} )
                   [.] ( \d{1,3} )
                   [.] ( \d{1,3} )
                 )
        )
        \s+
        (?x-ism: (
                   ( \w+ )
                   (
                     [.] \w+ [.] \w+
                   )?
                 )
        )
        \s+
        (?x-ism: (
                   ( \w+ )
                   (
                     [.] \w+ [.] \w+
                   )?
                 )
        )
      \s*
    \z
  )
/;

what am i missing?

thanks,
david
-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Mon Jul 12 11:47:29 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:47:29 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] help with matching?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilRewj_Z5qyc6AlOwyOwHXpi_0oWG0J0ZUVj2qT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilRewj_Z5qyc6AlOwyOwHXpi_0oWG0J0ZUVj2qT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikcQviCIvIie6hAHCsP-5LqR1obwWWRjXczUeed@mail.gmail.com>

Here's a simplification,

perl -lne 'print "$1, $2, $3" if
/(\d+\.\d+\.\d+\.\d+)\s+([-\w]+(?:\.[-\w]+)+)\s+([-\w]+(?:\.[-\w]+)+)/'
10.80.15.14     srwd15abx001.srwd15.com   srwd15hst001.srwd15.com
10.80.15.14, srwd15abx001.srwd15.com, srwd15hst001.srwd15.com

I personally tend to go liberal on the parser rather than trying to match
the matcher to the input precisely.

CPAN advocates would say, "Use http://search.cpan.org/dist/Regexp-Common/ !"
:-)

HTH,
Paul

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:30, David Alban <extasia at extasia.org> wrote:

> 10.80.15.14     srwd15abx001.srwd15.com   srwd15hst001.srwd15.com
>
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From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon Jul 12 11:55:38 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:55:38 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] help with matching?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilRewj_Z5qyc6AlOwyOwHXpi_0oWG0J0ZUVj2qT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilRewj_Z5qyc6AlOwyOwHXpi_0oWG0J0ZUVj2qT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik4a83pHHuvvtXi9HtCHnIjZ6YQ7JtrNX3V-GEx@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:30 AM, David Alban <extasia at extasia.org> wrote:
> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 6 =>
> 'srwd15abx001.srwd15.com'
> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 7 => 'srwd15abx001'
> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 8 => '.srwd15.com'
> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 9 => '.srwd15.com'
> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 10 => 'srwd15hst001'
> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 11 => '.srwd15.com'
> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 12 => ''
> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 13 => ''
> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 14 => ''
> $VAR1 = qr/(?msx-i: \A \s* (?x-ism: ( ( \d{1,3} ) [.] ( \d{1,3} ) [.]
> ( \d{1,3} ) [.] ( \d{1,3} ) ) ) \s+ (?x-ism: ( ( \w+ ) ( [.] \w+ [.]
> \w+ )? ) ) \s+ (?x-ism: ( ( \w+ ) ( [.] \w+ [.] \w+ )? ) ) \s* \z )/;
>
> here is the line to parse (excluding the single quotes):
>
> '10.80.15.14 ? ? srwd15abx001.srwd15.com ? srwd15hst001.srwd15.com ?'
>
> here is my attempt to make the regex more human readable [edited above
> line by hand--best viewed with non-proportional font:]
>
> qr/
> ?(?msx-i:
> ? ?\A
> ? ? ?\s*
> ? ? ? ?(?x-ism: (
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ( \d{1,3} )
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? [.] ( \d{1,3} )
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? [.] ( \d{1,3} )
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? [.] ( \d{1,3} )
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? )
> ? ? ? ?)
> ? ? ? ?\s+
> ? ? ? ?(?x-ism: (
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ( \w+ )
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? [.] \w+ [.] \w+
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? )?
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? )
> ? ? ? ?)
> ? ? ? ?\s+
> ? ? ? ?(?x-ism: (
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ( \w+ )
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? [.] \w+ [.] \w+
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? )?
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? )
> ? ? ? ?)
> ? ? ?\s*
> ? ?\z
> ?)
> /;
>
> what am i missing?

IMHO this regex is too complicated.  Why are you attempting to pull
out the dotted quads of the ip address individually instead of
grabbing the ip address with one match?  Same for the host name - it
is better (IMHO) to make a more readable piece of code that could be
more computationally expensive.

You might be able to simplify this using some other tools such as
split().  10 lines of readable code with comments trumps a single
regex that one has to put effort into understanding.

From david_v_wright at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 12 14:17:05 2010
From: david_v_wright at yahoo.com (david wright)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] help with matching?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik4a83pHHuvvtXi9HtCHnIjZ6YQ7JtrNX3V-GEx@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilRewj_Z5qyc6AlOwyOwHXpi_0oWG0J0ZUVj2qT@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik4a83pHHuvvtXi9HtCHnIjZ6YQ7JtrNX3V-GEx@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49604.40544.qm@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>----- Original Message ----
>From: Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com>
>To: extasia at extasia.org
>Cc: sfperl <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
>Sent: Mon, July 12, 2010 11:55:38 AM
>Subject: Re: [sf-perl] help with matching?
>
>On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:30 AM, David Alban <extasia at extasia.org> wrote:
>> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 6 =>
>> 'srwd15abx001.srwd15.com'
>> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 7 => 'srwd15abx001'
>> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 8 => '.srwd15.com'
>> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 9 => '.srwd15.com'
>> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 10 => 'srwd15hst001'
>> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 11 => '.srwd15.com'
>> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 12 => ''
>> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 13 => ''
>> 2010-07-12 17:46:21 +0000 srwd00reg001 junk.perl[356] 14 => ''
>> $VAR1 = qr/(?msx-i: \A \s* (?x-ism: ( ( \d{1,3} ) [.] ( \d{1,3} ) [.]
>> ( \d{1,3} ) [.] ( \d{1,3} ) ) ) \s+ (?x-ism: ( ( \w+ ) ( [.] \w+ [.]
>> \w+ )? ) ) \s+ (?x-ism: ( ( \w+ ) ( [.] \w+ [.] \w+ )? ) ) \s* \z )/;
>>
>> here is the line to parse (excluding the single quotes):
>>
>> '10.80.15.14     srwd15abx001.srwd15.com   srwd15hst001.srwd15.com  '
>>
>> here is my attempt to make the regex more human readable [edited above
>> line by hand--best viewed with non-proportional font:]
>>
>> qr/
>>  (?msx-i:
>>    \A
>>      \s*
>>        (?x-ism: (
>>                       ( \d{1,3} )
>>                   [.] ( \d{1,3} )
>>                   [.] ( \d{1,3} )
>>                   [.] ( \d{1,3} )
>>                 )
>>        )
>>        \s+
>>        (?x-ism: (
>>                   ( \w+ )
>>                   (
>>                     [.] \w+ [.] \w+
>>                   )?
>>                 )
>>        )
>>        \s+
>>        (?x-ism: (
>>                   ( \w+ )
>>                   (
>>                     [.] \w+ [.] \w+
>>                   )?
>>                 )
>>        )
>>      \s*
>>    \z
>>  )
>> /;
>>
>> what am i missing?
>
>IMHO this regex is too complicated.  Why are you attempting to pull
>out the dotted quads of the ip address individually instead of
>grabbing the ip address with one match?  Same for the host name - it
>is better (IMHO) to make a more readable piece of code that could be
>more computationally expensive.
>
>You might be able to simplify this using some other tools such as
>split().  10 lines of readable code with comments trumps a single
>regex that one has to put effort into understanding.



I agree with Fred, this is a perfect use case for split.

#perl
while(<DATA>){
    my ($ip, $vh1, $vh2)  = split /\s+/;
    print "$ip, $vh1, $vh2\n";
}


__DATA__
10.80.15.14    srwd15abx001.srwd15.com  srwd15hst001.srwd15.com
10.80.15.13    srwd1abx001.srw15.com  srwd1abx001.srw15.com
10.80.15.11    srwd1abx001.srw15.com  srwd1abx001.srw15.com
# end

output:
[dwright~/perl(44)]$ perl pw_sp.pl
10.80.15.14, srwd15abx001.srwd15.com, srwd15hst001.srwd15.com
10.80.15.13, srwd1abx001.srw15.com, srwd1abx001.srw15.com
10.80.15.11, srwd1abx001.srw15.com, srwd1abx001.srw15.com

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon Jul 12 16:21:06 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:21:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Perl Critic in Depth
Message-ID: <AANLkTimhLozLqTR4JrgktaUjZ2LMyoT8E5VcPqSI-1Yp@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff Thalhammer will be back to speak about Perl-Critic again on July
27nd at 7pm, at the office of LookSmart.

As any Perl developer will tell you, There's More Than One Way To Do
It. But over time, we all learn that Some Ways Are Better Than Others.

Perl-Critic is a static source code analyzer based on Damian Conway's
book Perl Best Practices. In this presentation, you'll learn how to
use Perl-Critic to improve the quality and maintainability of your
code. We'll cover the perlcritic command-line tool and the
Test::Perl::Critic module, as well as tips for policy selection and
incorporating Perl-Critic into your development culture. We'll also
demonstrate how to extend Perl-Critic with your own custom policies.

Please RSVP at Meetup -
http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/

Perl-Critic - http://perlcritic.com/

Jeff Thalhammer's CPAN page - http://search.cpan.org/~thaljef

Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Fri Jul 16 09:05:59 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:05:59 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] POD - there's an app for that
Message-ID: <AANLkTik3UFumxww5qcgAgTa0qdLMXWX5QTtgHoKnQsVd@mail.gmail.com>

http://blogs.perl.org/users/olaf_alders/2010/07/icpan-cpan-on-your-iphone.html?goback=.gde_40830_member_24861131

From uri at StemSystems.com  Fri Jul 16 10:37:49 2010
From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:37:49 -0400
Subject: [sf-perl] [job] perl/sql in LA
Message-ID: <87pqynpbte.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>


i have a very hot lead for a perl/sql hacker in LA. this is for 2-3
months and possibly more. they are looking for a top level person and
the pay is also high for that. it is working with a data
warehouse/distributed systems product so any experience you have there
is a big plus. please call me at 781-721-1974 or email your resume and
sample perl code to uri at perlhunter.com.

thanx,

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri at stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Fri Jul 16 11:11:15 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:11:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] POD - there's an app for that
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik3UFumxww5qcgAgTa0qdLMXWX5QTtgHoKnQsVd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik3UFumxww5qcgAgTa0qdLMXWX5QTtgHoKnQsVd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <413CF985-3E07-4FC9-9F09-C1446E450CC7@highwire.stanford.edu>

This is 100 kinds of awesome. 

As the author says, though, a mobile web view would probably have been much easier and faster... Why hasn't anyone written one yet? I do see that someone has written a Plack iPhone-converting Middleware section, but it doesn't seem to be hosted publicly.
	http://blog.patspam.com/2010/plack-middleware-for-your-iphone

Anyone got some spare machines to host such a thing on?

-- Mike
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu

On Jul 16, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Fred Moyer wrote:

> http://blogs.perl.org/users/olaf_alders/2010/07/icpan-cpan-on-your-iphone.html?goback=.gde_40830_member_24861131
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From szabgab at gmail.com  Sun Jul 18 02:06:24 2010
From: szabgab at gmail.com (Gabor Szabo)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:06:24 +0300
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: PostgreSQL event
In-Reply-To: <201007151454.43359.kaare@jasonic.dk>
References: <201007151454.43359.kaare@jasonic.dk>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinrdt6gwZrO9dUmZGbAYBThh5cxV6eYbwecuSXM@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kaare Rasmussen <kaare at jasonic.dk>
Date: Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:54 PM
Subject: PostgreSQL event
To: Gabor Szabo <szabgab at gmail.com>


Hi Gabor

I hope you will find this useful for your list. It would be great to have a
Perl speaker at a Pg conference.

http://www.commandprompt.com/blogs/joshua_drake/2010/07/pgwest_2010_call_for_papers/

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Tue Jul 20 14:26:25 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:26:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Reminder: Perl-Critic in Depth is in one week.
In-Reply-To: <613330803.1279660711920.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com>
References: <613330803.1279660711920.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikrjolwF3v0kI-QbOgRki3SRyBR_fxYu6w6rQjH@mail.gmail.com>

Just a quick reminder, Perl-Critic in Depth is next Tuesday.

RSVP at Meetup -
http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/

Hope to see you there!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Meetup Reminder <info at meetup.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:18 PM
Subject: Reminder: Perl-Critic in Depth is in one week.
To: fred at redhotpenguin.com


Meetup Reminder
San Francisco Perl Mongers
Your group has a Meetup Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:00 PM!
You RSVPed Yes.
What

Perl-Critic in Depth

When

Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:00 PM

Who

14 Yes

Where

LookSmart
55 Second Street Suite 700
San Francisco CA 94105

Update your RSVP

14 Perl Mongers RSVPed Yes, including?

see all
Meetup Description

Jeff Thalhammer will be back to speak about Perl-Critic again on July
27th at 7pm, at the office of LookSmart.

As any Perl developer will tell you, There's More Than One Way To Do
It. But over time, we all learn that Some Ways Are Better Than Others.

Perl-Critic is a static source code analyzer based on Damian Conway's
book Perl Best Practices. In this presentation, you'll learn how to
use Perl-Critic to improve the quality and maintainability of your
code. We'll cover the perlcritic command-line tool and the
Test::Perl::Critic module, as well as tips for policy selection and
incorporating Perl-Critic into your development culture. We'll also
demonstrate how to extend Perl-Critic with your own custom policies.

Perl-Critic - http://perlcritic.com/

Jeff Thalhammer's CPAN page - http://search.cpan.org/~thaljef/

Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce

This Meetup Group is sponsored by

Red Hot Penguin Consulting ? The Human Creativity Project ? Six Apart
? O'Reilly Media ? Silver Lining Networks ? Biztos

Add info at meetup.com to your address book to receive all Meetup emails

To manage your email settings for this group, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668

Meetup HQ in NYC is hiring! http://www.meetup.com/jobs/

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Jul 21 10:12:54 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:12:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [blogpost] "Moving Perl up the value chain"
Message-ID: <AANLkTinSIXVfaK1rJwHHRowkfYOECmuCSMe3_UrWNHay@mail.gmail.com>

I found this an interested read -
http://code.foo.no/2010/07/21/moving-perl-up-the-value-chain


Also, we will have a few copies of Perl Best Practices at the meeting
next Tuesday to give away.  Thanks to O'Reilly for donating those!
RSVP at Meetup -
http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/

From mjewell at openmissoula.org  Wed Jul 21 10:43:39 2010
From: mjewell at openmissoula.org (Monte Jewell)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:43:39 -0600
Subject: [sf-perl] [blogpost] "Moving Perl up the value chain"
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinSIXVfaK1rJwHHRowkfYOECmuCSMe3_UrWNHay@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinSIXVfaK1rJwHHRowkfYOECmuCSMe3_UrWNHay@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimJoIRmLWk3eDYyEs6LoxZNw6WW0thCDeN6qzYt@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the link, Fred.

I'm writing because I'm a solo-practice lawyer in MIssoula, MT and not a
coder. My practice focuses on poverty law issues and domestic violence. I
keep three active contested pro bono cases for low-income clients and work
often on issues impacting low-income communities with service providers that
could be accurately described as chronically under-funded.

>From 1999-2002, Imanaged a field office for the Domestic Violence Unit of
Montana Legal Services Association with no IT budget which is how I acquired
my interest in FOSS.

I also use FOSS exclusively in my law practice and have been. interested in
bash and perl for a number of years. I've followed this list with moderate
interest for what feels like a long time though I confess that I understand
comparatively little of what I read.

Over the years, I've advocated the benefit to clients and practitioners in
legal services and public defender programs of adopting FOSS, divesting from
proprietary licenses, promoting "nuts & bolts" IT literacy and building a
FOSS client and professional community. There's been some interest.

The writer of the article you linked urged coders to consider using
demonstrating how perl may be used to solve the problems of "normal"
persons.  I hope more perl coders will consider working with lawyers and
social workers who work with low-income communities and teach them how perl
can improve their service delivery, grant auditing and --- indirectly ----
promote vocational training and a homegrown IT support community among the
community members they serve.

One of the biggest problems I encounter in my efforts to apply what I learn
about perl to professional problems is the orientation among other lawyers
and among coders who help them toward vendor software solutions rather than
literacy and skill-building.

I wish there was a perl intro that taught lawyers how to munge data between
formats. I work with a lot of heavily formatted documents created by various
applications and spend way too much time retyping text, reformatting text
and cutting and pasting.

It's humorous that there's a tool as powerful as perl that could eliminate
most if not all of my daily problems if I only knew how to use it fluently.
At my current learning rate, I estimate that I'll reach the requisite level
perl (& bash) literacy in years rather than months. And it's already been
years. That seems a little silly.

When, for example, I tell coders or lawyers that I want to use bash and perl
to munge my bank's .txt files into .csv files, I can sometimes encounter
some resistance. There is sometimes a gap in worldview that is challenging
to bridge for practical problem-solving purposes. (And I've been told that
I'm a reasonably patient small town lawyer when it comes to IT topics.)

I'm happy learning, and (like many non-coders) must go at my own pace. But
it would be good to have help.

Anyway . . . I hope this perspective is interesting and helps to stimulate
thought and/or discussion on the article which I greatly enjoyed.

Regards,

Monte

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:

> I found this an interested read -
> http://code.foo.no/2010/07/21/moving-perl-up-the-value-chain
>
>
> Also, we will have a few copies of Perl Best Practices at the meeting
> next Tuesday to give away.  Thanks to O'Reilly for donating those!
> RSVP at Meetup -
> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>



-- 
Monte Jewell, PC, Attorney at Law
P.O. Box 7083
Missoula, MT 59807-7083
mjewell at openmissoula.org
v. 406 546 1414
________
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From not.com at gmail.com  Wed Jul 21 11:00:45 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:00:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [blogpost] "Moving Perl up the value chain"
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimJoIRmLWk3eDYyEs6LoxZNw6WW0thCDeN6qzYt@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinSIXVfaK1rJwHHRowkfYOECmuCSMe3_UrWNHay@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimJoIRmLWk3eDYyEs6LoxZNw6WW0thCDeN6qzYt@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimknJquCJXxOKE_AEmIr-Es3VVW3Dgjzc2xjxyq@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Monte,

Thanks for doing the good work. Next time you're faced with a file
reformatting project, go ahead and ask here (or at perlmonks.org and
email here with a link.) You're bound to get some educational
responses. If a text file is confidential, you can anonymize it before
posting like so-

perl -p -e "tr/1-9A-Za-z/000000000x/" original.txt > anon.txt

replaces all digits with 0 and letters with x, preserving punctuation.
May not be good for all you're working with but it's a start.

-y

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Jul 21 11:26:15 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:26:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
Message-ID: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like Blekko is giving out some invites if you follow their
twitter feed - http://www.blekko.com - http://twitter.com/blekko

They are a search engine that uses a fair amount of Perl I have heard.
 Can't wait to try it out :)

From greg at blekko.com  Wed Jul 21 11:33:43 2010
From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:33:43 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100721183343.GA21786@bx9.net>

And if you're twitter-averse, reply to me personally (not on the list,
please) and I'll get you an invite. We aren't sure when they're going
out, yet, so you'll have to be patient.

-- greg

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:26:15AM -0700, Fred Moyer wrote:
> Looks like Blekko is giving out some invites if you follow their
> twitter feed - http://www.blekko.com - http://twitter.com/blekko
> 
> They are a search engine that uses a fair amount of Perl I have heard.
>  Can't wait to try it out :)
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Wed Jul 21 11:37:20 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:37:20 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <20100721183343.GA21786@bx9.net>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100721183343.GA21786@bx9.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimBzm8AUeFfA8wwLm3kBz84AH4xqSdtRMSF2Ud8@mail.gmail.com>

That site needs an "About" page!

First impression was "What is this?" Answer wasn't really forthcoming
so I closed the window and went back to work.

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:33, Greg Lindahl <greg at blekko.com> wrote:
> And if you're twitter-averse, reply to me personally (not on the list,
> please) and I'll get you an invite. We aren't sure when they're going
> out, yet, so you'll have to be patient.
>
> -- greg
>
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:26:15AM -0700, Fred Moyer wrote:
>> Looks like Blekko is giving out some invites if you follow their
>> twitter feed - http://www.blekko.com - http://twitter.com/blekko
>>
>> They are a search engine that uses a fair amount of Perl I have heard.
>> ?Can't wait to try it out :)
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From greg at blekko.com  Wed Jul 21 11:42:43 2010
From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:42:43 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimBzm8AUeFfA8wwLm3kBz84AH4xqSdtRMSF2Ud8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100721183343.GA21786@bx9.net>
	<AANLkTimBzm8AUeFfA8wwLm3kBz84AH4xqSdtRMSF2Ud8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100721184243.GB21786@bx9.net>

Sorry about that!

http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/19/techcrunch-review-the-blekko-search-engine-prepares-to-launch/

http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/19/blekko-screencast-and-founder-interview/

http://www.skrenta.com/2010/07/if_blekko_sees_its_shadow_6_mo.html

http://www.marksonland.com/2010/07/get_ready_to_slash_the_web_1.html

-- greg

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:37:20AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> That site needs an "About" page!
> 
> First impression was "What is this?" Answer wasn't really forthcoming
> so I closed the window and went back to work.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:33, Greg Lindahl <greg at blekko.com> wrote:
> > And if you're twitter-averse, reply to me personally (not on the list,
> > please) and I'll get you an invite. We aren't sure when they're going
> > out, yet, so you'll have to be patient.
> >
> > -- greg
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:26:15AM -0700, Fred Moyer wrote:
> >> Looks like Blekko is giving out some invites if you follow their
> >> twitter feed - http://www.blekko.com - http://twitter.com/blekko
> >>
> >> They are a search engine that uses a fair amount of Perl I have heard.
> >> ?Can't wait to try it out :)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> >

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Jul 21 12:43:54 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:43:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:

> Looks like Blekko is giving out some invites if you follow their
> twitter feed - http://www.blekko.com - http://twitter.com/blekko
>
> They are a search engine that uses a fair amount of Perl I have heard.
>  Can't wait to try it out :)

I've been interested in this one, of late:

  http://duckduckgo.com

This is a search engine that uses perl (and postgresql):

  http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2009/03/duck-duck-go-architecture.html

For some time now I've had the feeling that google's web search
has stagnated if not slipped, and it's good to see there's an
upwelling of interest in taking them on at (what used to be) their
main game.

Also, if I'm right that google has been ignoring some good
technologies (perl, postgresql), then it might be possible to
get a little edge over them by using them...

Nice to see someone's trying.


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Jul 21 13:02:20 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:02:20 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinR4aRDdBJPd8cuivj5ztZ9VyMomJHMeP2LawMz@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> I've been interested in this one, of late:
>
> ?http://duckduckgo.com
>
> This is a search engine that uses perl (and postgresql):
>
> ?http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2009/03/duck-duck-go-architecture.html

I'm surprised to see they are using FastCGI which is somewhat bleeding
edge.  I've worked with fast cgi implementations previously and they
didn't see to be quite production ready overall.

From not.com at gmail.com  Wed Jul 21 13:18:45 2010
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:18:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
...
>
> Also, if I'm right that google has been ignoring some good
> technologies (perl, postgresql), then it might be possible to
> get a little edge over them by using them...

For what it's worth, my understanding is that Google uses Perl in its
release management, but its more of a Python & Java shop overall (eg
what do they allow to run on the Google App Engine).

Also back when Lycos was the only game in town, an acquaintance there
told me their Perl was a performance hit, and they were rewriting
anything that executed as a result of a visitor's search in C. That
was circa 1994 and I never followed up.

-y

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Jul 21 14:08:12 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:08:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinR4aRDdBJPd8cuivj5ztZ9VyMomJHMeP2LawMz@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTinR4aRDdBJPd8cuivj5ztZ9VyMomJHMeP2LawMz@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201007212108.o6LL8CNV054190@kzsu.stanford.edu>

Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:

> Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > I've been interested in this one, of late:
> >
> >   http://duckduckgo.com
> >
> > This is a search engine that uses perl (and postgresql):
> >
> >   http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2009/03/duck-duck-go-architecture.html
>
> I'm surprised to see they are using FastCGI which is somewhat bleeding
> edge.  I've worked with fast cgi implementations previously and they
> didn't see to be quite production ready overall.

I'd feel safer with mod_perl, myself, but I have seen some people
pushing FastCGI as a performance win.

But then, if you look at that "architecture" post, he doesn't claim that
this is The Right Way, this is just what they did for their "soft
launch".  There's a bunch of cloud computing stuff in there also which
also strikes me as fairly dicey (it's not recommended for postgresql,
for example -- but then it's not clear to me if the entire system is
hosted in the clouds, or just some incidental stuff).


From mehryar at mehryar.com  Wed Jul 21 14:11:07 2010
From: mehryar at mehryar.com (mehryar)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:11:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.00.1007211405380.28789@delta.he.net>


circa 1995-2000, the DejaNews search engine was all Perl and mod_perl 
(except for the core indexing code) and it was pretty fast. It later got 
acquired by Google and became what is now Google Groups.

cheers,
-Mehryar


On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, yary wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> ...
>>
>> Also, if I'm right that google has been ignoring some good
>> technologies (perl, postgresql), then it might be possible to
>> get a little edge over them by using them...
>
> For what it's worth, my understanding is that Google uses Perl in its
> release management, but its more of a Python & Java shop overall (eg
> what do they allow to run on the Google App Engine).
>
> Also back when Lycos was the only game in town, an acquaintance there
> told me their Perl was a performance hit, and they were rewriting
> anything that executed as a result of a visitor's search in C. That
> was circa 1994 and I never followed up.
>
> -y
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Jul 21 14:23:08 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:23:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201007212123.o6LLN8IC054559@kzsu.stanford.edu>


yary <not.com at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:

> > Also, if I'm right that google has been ignoring some good
> > technologies (perl, postgresql), then it might be possible to
> > get a little edge over them by using them...
>
> For what it's worth, my understanding is that Google uses Perl in its
> release management,

And in a number of other corners, I would expect.  They don't entirely
let anti-perl snobbery dictate which companies they buy, for example.

> but its more of a Python & Java shop overall (eg
> what do they allow to run on the Google App Engine).

And admittedly you need to standardize on *something*, I'm just not
happy with their choices.

By the way, there's supposedly a "20% project" to get perl on the Google
App Engine.  It looks like it's been proceeding only in fits and starts
for the last few years, and isn't there yet:

  http://code.google.com/p/perl-appengine/

> Also back when Lycos was the only game in town, an acquaintance there
> told me their Perl was a performance hit, and they were rewriting
> anything that executed as a result of a visitor's search in C. That
> was circa 1994 and I never followed up.

Nice strategy.  I bet they had no problems with implementation or
maintenance at all.  And C programmers are legendary for their caution
in avoiding pointer errors and memory leaks, so I bet the code was
really high quality.


From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Wed Jul 21 14:41:03 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:41:03 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <201007212123.o6LLN8IC054559@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com> 
	<201007212123.o6LLN8IC054559@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikvsOeTVAcHi26m8tKme3FrpfPpHOGocDnls2Cd@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 14:23, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> yary <not.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>> > Also, if I'm right that google has been ignoring some good
>> > technologies (perl, postgresql), then it might be possible to
>> > get a little edge over them by using them...
>>
>> For what it's worth, my understanding is that Google uses Perl in its
>> release management,
>
> And in a number of other corners, I would expect. ?They don't entirely
> let anti-perl snobbery dictate which companies they buy, for example.

There are Perl questions on their SRE (ops/"root at google.com" role)
interviews, and they're not easy either. Perl is used on the command
line pretty extensively. Gmail's anti-spam has SpamAssassin as part of
its chain.

Not to get into a language war but there are some really excellent
reasons not to use perl for large organizations like that. Python, all
things considered, is a pretty good choice, IMO.

BTW, FastCGI is definitely production ready - it's pretty simple, has
been around for years & the Catalyst et al folks have deployed it in
some large prod setups.

Paul

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Jul 21 16:12:24 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:12:24 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikvsOeTVAcHi26m8tKme3FrpfPpHOGocDnls2Cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007212123.o6LLN8IC054559@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikvsOeTVAcHi26m8tKme3FrpfPpHOGocDnls2Cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201007212312.o6LNCORT057040@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > yary <not.com at gmail.com> wrote:

> >> For what it's worth, my understanding is that Google uses Perl in its
> >> release management,
> >
> > And in a number of other corners, I would expect. They don't entirely
> > let anti-perl snobbery dictate which companies they buy, for example.
>
> There are Perl questions on their SRE (ops/"root at google.com" role)
> interviews, and they're not easy either.

Does Kaplan have a review book out for that yet?

> Perl is used on the command line pretty extensively. Gmail's anti-spam
> has SpamAssassin as part of its chain.

Yes, Postino was specifically the acquisition I had in mind.

> Not to get into a language war but there are some really excellent
> reasons not to use perl for large organizations like that. Python, all
> things considered, is a pretty good choice, IMO.

Well, not an obviously dumb one, at any rate.

Coding standards, with perltidy and perlcritic in the tool chain can do
a lot to cover the problem with coordinating armies of programmers.

If you're referring to, say, the lack of standardization in general
in the perl universe, you probably have a point (it's great to be able
to pull all sorts of things off of CPAN, it's not so great that you
can't know without looking how, say, objects were implemented, or how
error handling was done, and so on...).

From greg at blekko.com  Wed Jul 21 17:01:57 2010
From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:01:57 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <20100722000157.GC10811@bx9.net>

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:43:54PM -0700, Joe Brenner wrote:

> Also, if I'm right that google has been ignoring some good
> technologies (perl, postgresql), then it might be possible to
> get a little edge over them by using them...

I hear Google uses a lot of Python, and a lot of NoSQL.

We probably use Perl a relatively larger amount, and we rolled our own
NoSQL database. A modest amount of our perl became a much larger pile
of XS, once we were done experimenting with the algorithms.

I know people run massively parallel Postgresql databases, but they
don't do what a search engine wants out of a database. Serving ads,
sure. But not all the weird stuff we do to crawl, index, and serve
results.

-- greg




From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Wed Jul 21 20:14:13 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:14:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <201007212312.o6LNCORT057040@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com> 
	<201007212123.o6LLN8IC054559@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikvsOeTVAcHi26m8tKme3FrpfPpHOGocDnls2Cd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<201007212312.o6LNCORT057040@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimGO21N2dtnuKskaw62oAAk3ZagE-8GKLlb3EvV@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 16:12, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
>> Not to get into a language war but there are some really excellent
>> reasons not to use perl for large organizations like that. Python, all
>> things considered, is a pretty good choice, IMO.
>
> Well, not an obviously dumb one, at any rate.
>
> Coding standards, with perltidy and perlcritic in the tool chain can do
> a lot to cover the problem with coordinating armies of programmers.
>
> If you're referring to, say, the lack of standardization in general
> in the perl universe, you probably have a point (it's great to be able
> to pull all sorts of things off of CPAN, it's not so great that you
> can't know without looking how, say, objects were implemented, or how
> error handling was done, and so on...).

It comes down to complexity - perl is just waaay more complicated than
python. Assuming you have to spin up a developer on one scripting
language (and one because you want standardization of languages), you
want the one that'll take the least amount of time and still be able
to tackle a wide problem domain. For all the heat about syntax etc
perl & python _basically_ do the same thing. Python's ability to
interface with C blows perl out of the water too.

Where perl really shines, apart from CPAN, is the command line, but
it's reasonably straightforward to learn enough to do useful stuff
there.

Paul

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Jul 21 22:16:58 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:16:58 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Ways to broadcast the meeting next week
Message-ID: <AANLkTilZNNZ-nCzFF4BYMmDzdJWzPJTjG2y9apRwfA2I@mail.gmail.com>

Is anyone interested in taking on the challenge of livecasting our
meeting next tuesday?

I caught a few of the live Oscon casts yesterday -
http://www.oscon.com/oscon2010/public/content/2010/07/17-stream-tutorials

The keynote was livecast today, and I'm sure there will be other feeds tomorrow.

Contact me off list if you can take this on.  The Flip video camera
solution is acceptable too, but you have to video edit in the
Cloverfield monster at some point to qualify.

From j.david.lowe at gmail.com  Thu Jul 22 11:00:44 2010
From: j.david.lowe at gmail.com (David Lowe)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:00:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimGO21N2dtnuKskaw62oAAk3ZagE-8GKLlb3EvV@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007212123.o6LLN8IC054559@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikvsOeTVAcHi26m8tKme3FrpfPpHOGocDnls2Cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007212312.o6LNCORT057040@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTimGO21N2dtnuKskaw62oAAk3ZagE-8GKLlb3EvV@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik0thrPzsjnxEaSc447RUuRF7-iiuKWBpMteIzx@mail.gmail.com>

Paul, sfpug folks -

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Paul Makepeace
<Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> It comes down to complexity - perl is just waaay more complicated than
> python.

I disagree -- quite strongly -- that perl is inherently more
complicated than python. But I doubt that can be objectively discussed
;)

I mostly think it's an irrelevant argument. Here's the thing: all
software is complicated, and managing complexity is a huge part of
professional programming. But in my experience, the people who think
that the inherent language complexity is the biggest source of their
project's complexity are actually domain experts who simply can't
*SEE* the complexity of the rest of the system.

IMO: language choice isn't much more important than whitespace vs.
tabs, in terms of the complexity of a substantial piece of software
(barring cases where a language is egregiously unsuited to the problem
domain...)

Thanks,
David Lowe

From extasia at extasia.org  Thu Jul 22 11:10:42 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:10:42 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] cygwin memory question
Message-ID: <AANLkTilBH6iY3YIiNrkaviV700garnVHNDby-1E5B3U3@mail.gmail.com>

greetings,

configuring new laptop for work.  installed:

CYGWIN_NT-5.1 L-SFA-524320 1.7.5(0.225/5/3) 2010-04-12 19:07 i686 Cygwin

on a laptop running windows xp professional.

windows' task manager shows physical ram to be 4 gb (3594060 kb) but
the free command seems aware only of half of that:

$ free
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:       2097151          0    2097151          0          0          0
-/+ buffers/cache:          0    2097151
Swap:      2095104     140184    1954920

i tried googling and looking through some cygwin docs.  i haven't
found my question addressed.  what i'm finding is the way to increase
the heap size for a given process, but that doesn't address my
question.

can anyone point me to anything that would help me get cygwin to
recognize all four gb of memory?

thanks,
david

p.s.  hmmm...  could cygwin be using half of the memory as swap...?
-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From matt at lanier.org  Thu Jul 22 11:11:43 2010
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik0thrPzsjnxEaSc447RUuRF7-iiuKWBpMteIzx@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007212123.o6LLN8IC054559@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikvsOeTVAcHi26m8tKme3FrpfPpHOGocDnls2Cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007212312.o6LNCORT057040@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTimGO21N2dtnuKskaw62oAAk3ZagE-8GKLlb3EvV@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik0thrPzsjnxEaSc447RUuRF7-iiuKWBpMteIzx@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1007221111310.27806@aurora.cloudfactory.org>

the silent co-founder speaks!

m@

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, David Lowe wrote:

> Paul, sfpug folks -
>
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Paul Makepeace
> <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
>> It comes down to complexity - perl is just waaay more complicated than
>> python.
>
> I disagree -- quite strongly -- that perl is inherently more
> complicated than python. But I doubt that can be objectively discussed
> ;)
>
> I mostly think it's an irrelevant argument. Here's the thing: all
> software is complicated, and managing complexity is a huge part of
> professional programming. But in my experience, the people who think
> that the inherent language complexity is the biggest source of their
> project's complexity are actually domain experts who simply can't
> *SEE* the complexity of the rest of the system.
>
> IMO: language choice isn't much more important than whitespace vs.
> tabs, in terms of the complexity of a substantial piece of software
> (barring cases where a language is egregiously unsuited to the problem
> domain...)
>
> Thanks,
> David Lowe
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Thu Jul 22 11:37:22 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:37:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder: Perl-Critic in Depth is in one week.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikrjolwF3v0kI-QbOgRki3SRyBR_fxYu6w6rQjH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <613330803.1279660711920.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com>
	<AANLkTikrjolwF3v0kI-QbOgRki3SRyBR_fxYu6w6rQjH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim29aiA1kMkGlbSmv1XNa6FKshCr8vBHeWLZDEN@mail.gmail.com>

A quick note - if you know that you will be coming to the meeting next
week, please RSVP by Friday at 4pm PST if possible so that I can
provide LookSmart with an expected list of attendees.

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/

Still looking for a videographer for this meeting.

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
> Just a quick reminder, Perl-Critic in Depth is next Tuesday.
>
> RSVP at Meetup -
> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/
>
> Hope to see you there!
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Meetup Reminder <info at meetup.com>
> Date: Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:18 PM
> Subject: Reminder: Perl-Critic in Depth is in one week.
> To: fred at redhotpenguin.com
>
>
> Meetup Reminder
> San Francisco Perl Mongers
> Your group has a Meetup Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:00 PM!
> You RSVPed Yes.
> What
>
> Perl-Critic in Depth
>
> When
>
> Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:00 PM
>
> Who
>
> 14 Yes
>
> Where
>
> LookSmart
> 55 Second Street Suite 700
> San Francisco CA 94105
>
> Update your RSVP
>
> 14 Perl Mongers RSVPed Yes, including?
>
> see all
> Meetup Description
>
> Jeff Thalhammer will be back to speak about Perl-Critic again on July
> 27th at 7pm, at the office of LookSmart.
>
> As any Perl developer will tell you, There's More Than One Way To Do
> It. But over time, we all learn that Some Ways Are Better Than Others.
>
> Perl-Critic is a static source code analyzer based on Damian Conway's
> book Perl Best Practices. In this presentation, you'll learn how to
> use Perl-Critic to improve the quality and maintainability of your
> code. We'll cover the perlcritic command-line tool and the
> Test::Perl::Critic module, as well as tips for policy selection and
> incorporating Perl-Critic into your development culture. We'll also
> demonstrate how to extend Perl-Critic with your own custom policies.
>
> Perl-Critic - http://perlcritic.com/
>
> Jeff Thalhammer's CPAN page - http://search.cpan.org/~thaljef/
>
> Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce
>
> This Meetup Group is sponsored by
>
> Red Hot Penguin Consulting ? The Human Creativity Project ? Six Apart
> ? O'Reilly Media ? Silver Lining Networks ? Biztos
>
> Add info at meetup.com to your address book to receive all Meetup emails
>
> To manage your email settings for this group, click here
>
> Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668
>
> Meetup HQ in NYC is hiring! http://www.meetup.com/jobs/
>

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Thu Jul 22 12:54:05 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:54:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimGO21N2dtnuKskaw62oAAk3ZagE-8GKLlb3EvV@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007212123.o6LLN8IC054559@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikvsOeTVAcHi26m8tKme3FrpfPpHOGocDnls2Cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007212312.o6LNCORT057040@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTimGO21N2dtnuKskaw62oAAk3ZagE-8GKLlb3EvV@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201007221954.o6MJs562074870@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:

> It comes down to complexity - perl is just waaay more complicated than
> python.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, I'm inclined to agree with our unindicted
co-founder on this point.

> Assuming you have to spin up a developer on one scripting language
> (and one because you want standardization of languages), you want the
> one that'll take the least amount of time and still be able to tackle
> a wide problem domain.

So, is the trouble supposed to be that google was hiring a bunch of
dummies who can't possibly deal with perl?

The reason I bring this up is that the way these arguments go, people
switch back and forth between insisting that you need to accomodate
the slow witted, and insisting that programmers need to challenge
themselves in order to grow.

For example, you're supposed to go through a lot of work to learn
multiple languages to gain exposure to different ways of doing
things, but you're not supposed to use perl because it has too many
ways of doing things and you need to work too hard to learn how to
use it.




From greg at blekko.com  Thu Jul 22 13:38:48 2010
From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:38:48 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl search engine
In-Reply-To: <201007221954.o6MJs562074870@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTimVkuOap2wy6oWqDB4nzX-for41pbDn2dcIxPR9@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007211943.o6LJhso3052484@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikgsXt78oWpwJ0OaHz9PpcaxYHF4i5oKkOM_xUD@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007212123.o6LLN8IC054559@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTikvsOeTVAcHi26m8tKme3FrpfPpHOGocDnls2Cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007212312.o6LNCORT057040@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<AANLkTimGO21N2dtnuKskaw62oAAk3ZagE-8GKLlb3EvV@mail.gmail.com>
	<201007221954.o6MJs562074870@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <20100722203848.GO21988@bx9.net>

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:54:05PM -0700, Joe Brenner wrote:

> The reason I bring this up is that the way these arguments go, people
> switch back and forth between insisting that you need to accomodate
> the slow witted, and insisting that programmers need to challenge
> themselves in order to grow.

We don't hire slow-witted programmers, and neither does Google. I can
report that we've hired several fanatic Python fan-boys who had never
touched Perl before, and they had no trouble making the transition.
I don't think we have any employees who know only 1 language.

-- greg




From greg at blekko.com  Thu Jul 22 15:35:06 2010
From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:35:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] New Silicon Valley Perl meetup
Message-ID: <20100722223506.GC25175@bx9.net>

Ian Kluft is trying to re-found the Silicon Valley Perl meetup. You can
read about it at:

http://www.meetup.com/SVPerl/

-- greg



From matt at lanier.org  Thu Jul 22 15:53:26 2010
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:53:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] New Silicon Valley Perl meetup
In-Reply-To: <20100722223506.GC25175@bx9.net>
References: <20100722223506.GC25175@bx9.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1007221552440.27806@aurora.cloudfactory.org>

congrats to the sv folks.

lets please encourage cross-polination of the lists; i'd love to have as 
many of the sv folks on this list as well to keep the conversation 
growing.

thanks-

m@

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Greg Lindahl wrote:

> Ian Kluft is trying to re-found the Silicon Valley Perl meetup. You can
> read about it at:
>
> http://www.meetup.com/SVPerl/
>
> -- greg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Fri Jul 23 12:51:06 2010
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:51:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] looking for students to take 2-day Learning Perl course
Message-ID: <86bp9yaset.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>


I'm teaching Learning Perl in Rohnert Park on Tuesday and Wednesday,
being recorded by O'Reilly to produce a video of the course.

They had hoped to locate potential students, but apparently are having
trouble filling the room.

If you're a Perl beginner (or can act like one), and can volunteer to
spend two full days in Rohnert Park next week, please contact me
immediately for details.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

From marty.gipson at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 23 15:42:38 2010
From: marty.gipson at yahoo.com (Marty Gipson)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] Fw: looking for students to take 2-day Learning Perl
	course
Message-ID: <782373.61514.qm@web84207.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

This is so sad. 

I know several people who would die to take this course, especially from you, but they are not in the Rhonert Park area. 

Would O'Reilly fly anyone in from Colorado, or Maryland? (jk - sort of) 

I hope this doesn't mean fewer Perl books with animals on the cover. 

--- On Fri, 7/23/10, Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn at stonehenge.com> wrote:

> From: Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn at stonehenge.com>
> Subject: [sf-perl] looking for students to take 2-day Learning Perl course
> To: "sfperl" <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
> Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 12:51 PM
> 
> I'm teaching Learning Perl in Rohnert Park on Tuesday and
> Wednesday,
> being recorded by O'Reilly to produce a video of the
> course.
> 
> They had hoped to locate potential students, but apparently
> are having
> trouble filling the room.
> 
> If you're a Perl beginner (or can act like one), and can
> volunteer to
> spend two full days in Rohnert Park next week, please
> contact me
> immediately for details.
> 
> -- 
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. -
> +1 503 777 0095
> <merlyn at stonehenge.com>
> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy,
> etc. etc.
> See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for
> Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> 


      


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Fri Jul 23 15:48:45 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:48:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl.com is alive again!
Message-ID: <AANLkTimrFzAu+OCnVWo3rXUKgNeF7nMPg1nLV1pU0xY2@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.perl.com/

With all of the original articles.  +1 to the Perl Foundation for
making this happen.

From extasia at extasia.org  Fri Jul 23 16:38:50 2010
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:38:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] ant
Message-ID: <AANLkTikrc-iM99485pVEN+V=TpPvWO1p8EUecNH0=vtk@mail.gmail.com>

can anyone recommend any particular book on ant over others?
hopefully for folks who don't know java.

thanks.

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Fri Jul 23 20:21:50 2010
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 20:21:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl.com is alive again!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimrFzAu+OCnVWo3rXUKgNeF7nMPg1nLV1pU0xY2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimrFzAu+OCnVWo3rXUKgNeF7nMPg1nLV1pU0xY2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DFA598B8-6F0F-4509-97ED-C48F158AF9A6@highwire.stanford.edu>

I hate to ask a silly question, but what was wrong with perl.com? This is the first I've heard of any troubles about it. 

-- Mike

______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>


On Jul 23, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:

> http://www.perl.com/
> 
> With all of the original articles.  +1 to the Perl Foundation for
> making this happen.
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

From rdm at cfcl.com  Sat Jul 24 08:46:40 2010
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 08:46:40 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Desperate Perl Hacker (Tim Bray)
Message-ID: <p0623091bc870bb27d790@[192.168.1.205]>

http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2010/07/21/DPH
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, system design

From jshare at krotus.com  Sat Jul 24 09:10:47 2010
From: jshare at krotus.com (Jordan Share)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 09:10:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] cygwin memory question
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilBH6iY3YIiNrkaviV700garnVHNDby-1E5B3U3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilBH6iY3YIiNrkaviV700garnVHNDby-1E5B3U3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C4B1087.9020601@krotus.com>

On 7/22/2010 11:10 AM, David Alban wrote:
> greetings,
>
> configuring new laptop for work.  installed:
>
> CYGWIN_NT-5.1 L-SFA-524320 1.7.5(0.225/5/3) 2010-04-12 19:07 i686 Cygwin
>
> on a laptop running windows xp professional.
>
> windows' task manager shows physical ram to be 4 gb (3594060 kb) but
> the free command seems aware only of half of that:
>
> $ free
>               total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
> Mem:       2097151          0    2097151          0          0          0
> -/+ buffers/cache:          0    2097151
> Swap:      2095104     140184    1954920
>
> i tried googling and looking through some cygwin docs.  i haven't
> found my question addressed.  what i'm finding is the way to increase
> the heap size for a given process, but that doesn't address my
> question.
>
> can anyone point me to anything that would help me get cygwin to
> recognize all four gb of memory?
>
> thanks,
> david
>
> p.s.  hmmm...  could cygwin be using half of the memory as swap...?

It might be an artifact of the fact that any given 32bit process can 
only address (by default) 2GB of RAM on 32bit windows? (There is a 
workaround up to 3gig, with special boot options).

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778(VS.85).aspx

Also, fwiw, most of the time, 4GB under 32bit windows is kind of a 
waste, because a large part of the address space is being used for DMA 
for your video card anyway.  (For instance, you probably have 512meg of 
video memory, if windows is only showing you about 3.5gigs of available 
RAM, as you indicate).

Jordan

From marsee at oreilly.com  Sat Jul 24 11:28:55 2010
From: marsee at oreilly.com (Marsee Henon)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:28:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] O'Reilly Looking for audience members for Perl & iPhone
	Masterclasses Tues/Wed/Thurs
Message-ID: <25164BD6-8629-4D5F-A76C-ADBC8D6BD4BD@oreilly.com>

Hi,

Please spread the word to those you think might be interested in  
helping us out:

Starting Tuesday O'Reilly will be recording two masterclasses at  
Spreckels Performing Arts Center in Rohnert Park and we'd love to have  
some audience participation. Here's what we have on the marquee:

Tues/Wed July 27/28 - Randal Schwartz on Learning Perl
This course is based on Randal's popular O'Reilly book "Learning Perl."

Thursday July 29 - Alasdair Allan on Making Use of iPhone/iPad Sensors
This class will guide you through developing applications for the  
iPhone and iPad platforms that make use of the onboard sensors: the  
three-axis accelerometer, the magnetometer (digital compass), the  
gyroscope, the camera and the global positioning system. You?ll learn  
how to make use of these onboard sensors and combine them to build  
augmented reality applications. This will give you the background to  
building your own applications independently using the hottest  
location-aware technology yet for any mobile platforms.

The classes will be recorded at Spreckels Performing Arts Center in  
Rohnert Park. Recording will take the full day each day.

Masterclass audiences are recorded asking questions as part of the  
product, it's free to attend but we need people to sign up (and sign  
releases), and lunch is provided. If you or anyone is interested,  
please email colleenw at oreilly.com. We can accommodate 6-12 people per  
class.

We're asking students to arrive at 8:30, recording begins at 9. Lunch  
will be provided. Class ends around 5:00. I'll have releases for them  
to sign so that we can capture their questions on tape.

Location details:

Condiotti Theater
Spreckels Performing Arts Center
5409 Snyder Lane
Rohnert Park, CA

Thanks!

Marsee


Marsee Henon
O'Reilly Media, Inc.
1005 Gravenstein Hwy North
Sebastopol, CA  95472
marsee at oreilly.com
707-827-7103
http://ug.oreilly.com/

Clever Hacks. Creative Ideas. Innovative Solutions.
http://answers.oreilly.com/

follow us on twitter at http://twitter.com/oreillymedia


From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Sat Jul 24 14:04:43 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 14:04:43 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] O'Reilly Looking for audience members for Perl &
	iPhone Masterclasses Tues/Wed/Thurs
In-Reply-To: <25164BD6-8629-4D5F-A76C-ADBC8D6BD4BD@oreilly.com>
References: <25164BD6-8629-4D5F-A76C-ADBC8D6BD4BD@oreilly.com>
Message-ID: <201007242104.o6OL4hov030041@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Of course, *this* Tuesday, July 27, we're have a meeting of our own,
with Jeff Thalhammer giving us an advanced class in perlcritic:
"Perl-Critic in Depth":

  http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/

Note: that's at "LookSmart" over on 55 Second Street, not at the
"Six Apart" offices.


Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com> wrote:

> Please spread the word to those you think might be interested in
> helping us out:
>
> Starting Tuesday O'Reilly will be recording two masterclasses at
> Spreckels Performing Arts Center in Rohnert Park and we'd love to have
> some audience participation. Here's what we have on the marquee:
>
> Tues/Wed July 27/28 - Randal Schwartz on Learning Perl
> This course is based on Randal's popular O'Reilly book "Learning Perl."
>
> Thursday July 29 - Alasdair Allan on Making Use of iPhone/iPad Sensors
> This class will guide you through developing applications for the
> iPhone and iPad platforms that make use of the onboard sensors: the
> three-axis accelerometer, the magnetometer (digital compass), the
> gyroscope, the camera and the global positioning system. You'll learn
> how to make use of these onboard sensors and combine them to build
> augmented reality applications. This will give you the background to
> building your own applications independently using the hottest
> location-aware technology yet for any mobile platforms.
>
> The classes will be recorded at Spreckels Performing Arts Center in
> Rohnert Park. Recording will take the full day each day.
>
> Masterclass audiences are recorded asking questions as part of the
> product, it's free to attend but we need people to sign up (and sign
> releases), and lunch is provided. If you or anyone is interested,
> please email colleenw at oreilly.com. We can accommodate 6-12 people per
> class.
>
> We're asking students to arrive at 8:30, recording begins at 9. Lunch
> will be provided. Class ends around 5:00. I'll have releases for them
> to sign so that we can capture their questions on tape.
>
> Location details:
>
> Condiotti Theater
> Spreckels Performing Arts Center
> 5409 Snyder Lane
> Rohnert Park, CA
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marsee
>
>
> Marsee Henon
> O'Reilly Media, Inc.
> 1005 Gravenstein Hwy North
> Sebastopol, CA  95472
> marsee at oreilly.com
> 707-827-7103
> http://ug.oreilly.com/
>
> Clever Hacks. Creative Ideas. Innovative Solutions.
> http://answers.oreilly.com/
>
> follow us on twitter at http://twitter.com/oreillymedia

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Sat Jul 24 14:05:54 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 14:05:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] O'Reilly Looking for audience members for Perl &
	iPhone Masterclasses Tues/Wed/Thurs
In-Reply-To: <25164BD6-8629-4D5F-A76C-ADBC8D6BD4BD@oreilly.com>
References: <25164BD6-8629-4D5F-A76C-ADBC8D6BD4BD@oreilly.com>
Message-ID: <201007242105.o6OL5sog030090@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Oh, and by the way, this location:

> Condiotti Theater
> Spreckels Performing Arts Center
> 5409 Snyder Lane
> Rohnert Park, CA

Is near Sonoma State University, this is just off of the Rohnert Park
Expressway exit of 101, up north of San Francisco, a bit west of
Sebastopol:

  http://maps.google.com/maps?q=5409+Snyder+Lane+Rohnert+Park,+CA&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=5409+Snyder+Ln,+Rohnert+Park,+Sonoma,+California+94928&gl=us&ei=blNLTKCLDYXSsAOCzO3YCw&ved=0CBIQ8gEwAA&ll=38.363061,-122.723465&spn=0.138637,0.236721&z=13

(California is a big place...)



Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Please spread the word to those you think might be interested in
> helping us out:
>
> Starting Tuesday O'Reilly will be recording two masterclasses at
> Spreckels Performing Arts Center in Rohnert Park and we'd love to have
> some audience participation. Here's what we have on the marquee:
>
> Tues/Wed July 27/28 - Randal Schwartz on Learning Perl
> This course is based on Randal's popular O'Reilly book "Learning Perl."
>
> Thursday July 29 - Alasdair Allan on Making Use of iPhone/iPad Sensors
> This class will guide you through developing applications for the
> iPhone and iPad platforms that make use of the onboard sensors: the
> three-axis accelerometer, the magnetometer (digital compass), the
> gyroscope, the camera and the global positioning system. You'll learn
> how to make use of these onboard sensors and combine them to build
> augmented reality applications. This will give you the background to
> building your own applications independently using the hottest
> location-aware technology yet for any mobile platforms.
>
> The classes will be recorded at Spreckels Performing Arts Center in
> Rohnert Park. Recording will take the full day each day.
>
> Masterclass audiences are recorded asking questions as part of the
> product, it's free to attend but we need people to sign up (and sign
> releases), and lunch is provided. If you or anyone is interested,
> please email colleenw at oreilly.com. We can accommodate 6-12 people per
> class.
>
> We're asking students to arrive at 8:30, recording begins at 9. Lunch
> will be provided. Class ends around 5:00. I'll have releases for them
> to sign so that we can capture their questions on tape.
>
> Location details:
>
> Condiotti Theater
> Spreckels Performing Arts Center
> 5409 Snyder Lane
> Rohnert Park, CA
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marsee
>
>
> Marsee Henon
> O'Reilly Media, Inc.
> 1005 Gravenstein Hwy North
> Sebastopol, CA  95472
> marsee at oreilly.com
> 707-827-7103
> http://ug.oreilly.com/
>
> Clever Hacks. Creative Ideas. Innovative Solutions.
> http://answers.oreilly.com/
>
> follow us on twitter at http://twitter.com/oreillymedia
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon Jul 26 14:01:57 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:01:57 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Reminder: "Perl-Critic in Depth" is tomorrow, Tuesday,
	July 27, 2010 7:00 PM!
In-Reply-To: <244107241.1280175216706.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com>
References: <244107241.1280175216706.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimnFiPo5R4iud8hXOzgZfLGSqCqKE4szHMNRbsk@mail.gmail.com>

Just a quick fyi, I'll need to close the RSVP list by tomorrow at 1pm
- please rsvp if you'll be there.

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Meetup Reminder <info at meetup.com>
Date: Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 1:13 PM
Subject: Reminder: "Perl-Critic in Depth" is tomorrow, Tuesday, July
27, 2010 7:00 PM!
To: fred at redhotpenguin.com


Meetup Reminder
San Francisco Perl Mongers
Your group has a Meetup tomorrow!
You RSVPed Yes.
What

Perl-Critic in Depth

When

Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:00 PM

Who

25 Yes

Where

LookSmart
55 Second Street Suite 700
San Francisco CA 94105

Update your RSVP

25 Perl Mongers RSVPed Yes, including?

see all
Meetup Description

Jeff Thalhammer will be back to speak about Perl-Critic again on July
27th at 7pm, at the office of LookSmart.

As any Perl developer will tell you, There's More Than One Way To Do
It. But over time, we all learn that Some Ways Are Better Than Others.

Perl-Critic is a static source code analyzer based on Damian Conway's
book Perl Best Practices. In this presentation, you'll learn how to
use Perl-Critic to improve the quality and maintainability of your
code. We'll cover the perlcritic command-line tool and the
Test::Perl::Critic module, as well as tips for policy selection and
incorporating Perl-Critic into your development culture. We'll also
demonstrate how to extend Perl-Critic with your own custom policies.

Perl-Critic - http://perlcritic.com/

Jeff Thalhammer's CPAN page - http://search.cpan.org/~thaljef/

Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce

This Meetup Group is sponsored by

Red Hot Penguin Consulting ? The Human Creativity Project ? Six Apart
? O'Reilly Media ? Silver Lining Networks ? Biztos

Follow San Francisco Perl Mongers on:
@sfperlmongers LinkedIn

Add info at meetup.com to your address book to receive all Meetup emails

To manage your email settings for this group, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668

Meetup HQ in NYC is hiring! http://www.meetup.com/jobs/

From eruby at knowledgematters.net  Mon Jul 26 17:21:51 2010
From: eruby at knowledgematters.net (Earl Ruby)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:21:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Rakudo Star (a "usable Perl 6") to be released by July 29
Message-ID: <AANLkTiksZ1HRtf_C-B_YouzsFoabrORMbvL4KXjtgosr@mail.gmail.com>

Rakudo Star (a "usable Perl 6") to be released by July 29
http://rakudo.org/node/73

I just grabbed the latest source (http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo)
from GitHub, compiled, tested, installed:

> perl6 -v

This is Rakudo Perl 6, version 2010.07-38-g9808d7c built on parrot 2.6.0 r48152

Copyright 2008-2010, The Perl Foundation


> perl6 -e 'print "Hello World!\n";'
Hello World!


Now to try something more difficult...

-- 
Earl Ruby
http://earlruby.org/

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Tue Jul 27 13:35:49 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:35:49 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder: "Perl-Critic in Depth" is tomorrow, Tuesday,
	July 27, 2010 7:00 PM!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimnFiPo5R4iud8hXOzgZfLGSqCqKE4szHMNRbsk@mail.gmail.com>
References: <244107241.1280175216706.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com>
	<AANLkTimnFiPo5R4iud8hXOzgZfLGSqCqKE4szHMNRbsk@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=R+6pX09jtmRUw19eV+OyOAobxkC3r9YhkJziV@mail.gmail.com>

Last call for RSVPs for tonight's meeting.  If unsure just RSVP yes.

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/

This should be a great meeting, we'll have copies of PBP to give away
from Marsee at O'Reilly, beer, pizza, the awesome LookSmart meeting
space.

If you are late and have trouble getting in you can @sfperlmongers and
we'll take care of you.  Follow http://twitter.com/sfperlmongers for
any last minute meeting details such as where is a good place to lock
up your bike if you ride there (currently unknown - anyone know?)


On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
> Just a quick fyi, I'll need to close the RSVP list by tomorrow at 1pm
> - please rsvp if you'll be there.
>
> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Meetup Reminder <info at meetup.com>
> Date: Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 1:13 PM
> Subject: Reminder: "Perl-Critic in Depth" is tomorrow, Tuesday, July
> 27, 2010 7:00 PM!
> To: fred at redhotpenguin.com
>
>
> Meetup Reminder
> San Francisco Perl Mongers
> Your group has a Meetup tomorrow!
> You RSVPed Yes.
> What
>
> Perl-Critic in Depth
>
> When
>
> Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:00 PM
>
> Who
>
> 25 Yes
>
> Where
>
> LookSmart
> 55 Second Street Suite 700
> San Francisco CA 94105
>
> Update your RSVP
>
> 25 Perl Mongers RSVPed Yes, including?
>
> see all
> Meetup Description
>
> Jeff Thalhammer will be back to speak about Perl-Critic again on July
> 27th at 7pm, at the office of LookSmart.
>
> As any Perl developer will tell you, There's More Than One Way To Do
> It. But over time, we all learn that Some Ways Are Better Than Others.
>
> Perl-Critic is a static source code analyzer based on Damian Conway's
> book Perl Best Practices. In this presentation, you'll learn how to
> use Perl-Critic to improve the quality and maintainability of your
> code. We'll cover the perlcritic command-line tool and the
> Test::Perl::Critic module, as well as tips for policy selection and
> incorporating Perl-Critic into your development culture. We'll also
> demonstrate how to extend Perl-Critic with your own custom policies.
>
> Perl-Critic - http://perlcritic.com/
>
> Jeff Thalhammer's CPAN page - http://search.cpan.org/~thaljef/
>
> Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce
>
> This Meetup Group is sponsored by
>
> Red Hot Penguin Consulting ? The Human Creativity Project ? Six Apart
> ? O'Reilly Media ? Silver Lining Networks ? Biztos
>
> Follow San Francisco Perl Mongers on:
> @sfperlmongers LinkedIn
>
> Add info at meetup.com to your address book to receive all Meetup emails
>
> To manage your email settings for this group, click here
>
> Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668
>
> Meetup HQ in NYC is hiring! http://www.meetup.com/jobs/
>

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Tue Jul 27 13:50:44 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:50:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder: "Perl-Critic in Depth" is tomorrow, Tuesday,
	July 27, 2010 7:00 PM!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=R+6pX09jtmRUw19eV+OyOAobxkC3r9YhkJziV@mail.gmail.com>
References: <244107241.1280175216706.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com>
	<AANLkTimnFiPo5R4iud8hXOzgZfLGSqCqKE4szHMNRbsk@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=R+6pX09jtmRUw19eV+OyOAobxkC3r9YhkJziV@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikV4jx2GT_fxNE_aEfSDQtA2OZVpwwHK1yNP3j=@mail.gmail.com>

Last update, then I'll stop spamming you guys :)

If you are attending the meeting tonight by BART, exit at the
Montgomery Station.

No information on bike parking.  There are probably the upside down U
steel bike parking racks within a couple of blocks, so that is one
option.

If you are coming via Muni, you are headed to 2nd and Market, see the
Meetup site for the address.

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
> Last call for RSVPs for tonight's meeting. ?If unsure just RSVP yes.
>
> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/
>
> This should be a great meeting, we'll have copies of PBP to give away
> from Marsee at O'Reilly, beer, pizza, the awesome LookSmart meeting
> space.
>
> If you are late and have trouble getting in you can @sfperlmongers and
> we'll take care of you. ?Follow http://twitter.com/sfperlmongers for
> any last minute meeting details such as where is a good place to lock
> up your bike if you ride there (currently unknown - anyone know?)
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
>> Just a quick fyi, I'll need to close the RSVP list by tomorrow at 1pm
>> - please rsvp if you'll be there.
>>
>> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Meetup Reminder <info at meetup.com>
>> Date: Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 1:13 PM
>> Subject: Reminder: "Perl-Critic in Depth" is tomorrow, Tuesday, July
>> 27, 2010 7:00 PM!
>> To: fred at redhotpenguin.com
>>
>>
>> Meetup Reminder
>> San Francisco Perl Mongers
>> Your group has a Meetup tomorrow!
>> You RSVPed Yes.
>> What
>>
>> Perl-Critic in Depth
>>
>> When
>>
>> Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:00 PM
>>
>> Who
>>
>> 25 Yes
>>
>> Where
>>
>> LookSmart
>> 55 Second Street Suite 700
>> San Francisco CA 94105
>>
>> Update your RSVP
>>
>> 25 Perl Mongers RSVPed Yes, including?
>>
>> see all
>> Meetup Description
>>
>> Jeff Thalhammer will be back to speak about Perl-Critic again on July
>> 27th at 7pm, at the office of LookSmart.
>>
>> As any Perl developer will tell you, There's More Than One Way To Do
>> It. But over time, we all learn that Some Ways Are Better Than Others.
>>
>> Perl-Critic is a static source code analyzer based on Damian Conway's
>> book Perl Best Practices. In this presentation, you'll learn how to
>> use Perl-Critic to improve the quality and maintainability of your
>> code. We'll cover the perlcritic command-line tool and the
>> Test::Perl::Critic module, as well as tips for policy selection and
>> incorporating Perl-Critic into your development culture. We'll also
>> demonstrate how to extend Perl-Critic with your own custom policies.
>>
>> Perl-Critic - http://perlcritic.com/
>>
>> Jeff Thalhammer's CPAN page - http://search.cpan.org/~thaljef/
>>
>> Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce
>>
>> This Meetup Group is sponsored by
>>
>> Red Hot Penguin Consulting ? The Human Creativity Project ? Six Apart
>> ? O'Reilly Media ? Silver Lining Networks ? Biztos
>>
>> Follow San Francisco Perl Mongers on:
>> @sfperlmongers LinkedIn
>>
>> Add info at meetup.com to your address book to receive all Meetup emails
>>
>> To manage your email settings for this group, click here
>>
>> Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668
>>
>> Meetup HQ in NYC is hiring! http://www.meetup.com/jobs/
>>
>

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Tue Jul 27 17:44:26 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:44:26 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Reminder: Perl-Critic in Depth is in one week.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikrjolwF3v0kI-QbOgRki3SRyBR_fxYu6w6rQjH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <613330803.1279660711920.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com> 
	<AANLkTikrjolwF3v0kI-QbOgRki3SRyBR_fxYu6w6rQjH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=127ub7uXnR_B0wZ1pCzqKGrLAcg7cQ_F1ONeq@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know if it's OK to bring a bicycle into LookSmart's building?

Paul, who forgot his lock at home...

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 14:26, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
> Just a quick reminder, Perl-Critic in Depth is next Tuesday.
>
> RSVP at Meetup -
> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/
>
> Hope to see you there!
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Meetup Reminder <info at meetup.com>
> Date: Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:18 PM
> Subject: Reminder: Perl-Critic in Depth is in one week.
> To: fred at redhotpenguin.com
>
>
> Meetup Reminder
> San Francisco Perl Mongers
> Your group has a Meetup Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:00 PM!
> You RSVPed Yes.
> What
>
> Perl-Critic in Depth
>
> When
>
> Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:00 PM
>
> Who
>
> 14 Yes
>
> Where
>
> LookSmart
> 55 Second Street Suite 700
> San Francisco CA 94105
>
> Update your RSVP
>
> 14 Perl Mongers RSVPed Yes, including?
>
> see all
> Meetup Description
>
> Jeff Thalhammer will be back to speak about Perl-Critic again on July
> 27th at 7pm, at the office of LookSmart.
>
> As any Perl developer will tell you, There's More Than One Way To Do
> It. But over time, we all learn that Some Ways Are Better Than Others.
>
> Perl-Critic is a static source code analyzer based on Damian Conway's
> book Perl Best Practices. In this presentation, you'll learn how to
> use Perl-Critic to improve the quality and maintainability of your
> code. We'll cover the perlcritic command-line tool and the
> Test::Perl::Critic module, as well as tips for policy selection and
> incorporating Perl-Critic into your development culture. We'll also
> demonstrate how to extend Perl-Critic with your own custom policies.
>
> Perl-Critic - http://perlcritic.com/
>
> Jeff Thalhammer's CPAN page - http://search.cpan.org/~thaljef/
>
> Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce
>
> This Meetup Group is sponsored by
>
> Red Hot Penguin Consulting ? The Human Creativity Project ? Six Apart
> ? O'Reilly Media ? Silver Lining Networks ? Biztos
>
> Add info at meetup.com to your address book to receive all Meetup emails
>
> To manage your email settings for this group, click here
>
> Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668
>
> Meetup HQ in NYC is hiring! http://www.meetup.com/jobs/
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Tue Jul 27 18:00:15 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:00:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Reminder: Perl-Critic in Depth is in one week.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=127ub7uXnR_B0wZ1pCzqKGrLAcg7cQ_F1ONeq@mail.gmail.com>
References: <613330803.1279660711920.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com>
	<AANLkTikrjolwF3v0kI-QbOgRki3SRyBR_fxYu6w6rQjH@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=127ub7uXnR_B0wZ1pCzqKGrLAcg7cQ_F1ONeq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinsi0kJwW_0Tdc44Y+jzJzSx3AbBk6dvbcSWLeE@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Paul Makepeace
<Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know if it's OK to bring a bicycle into LookSmart's building?

Unsure on that but unlikely.

> Paul, who forgot his lock at home...

I can bring a U-lock with me, drop me a text to contact me when you get there.

>
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 14:26, Fred Moyer <fred at redhotpenguin.com> wrote:
>> Just a quick reminder, Perl-Critic in Depth is next Tuesday.
>>
>> RSVP at Meetup -
>> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14082571/
>>
>> Hope to see you there!
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Meetup Reminder <info at meetup.com>
>> Date: Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Reminder: Perl-Critic in Depth is in one week.
>> To: fred at redhotpenguin.com
>>
>>
>> Meetup Reminder
>> San Francisco Perl Mongers
>> Your group has a Meetup Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:00 PM!
>> You RSVPed Yes.
>> What
>>
>> Perl-Critic in Depth
>>
>> When
>>
>> Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:00 PM
>>
>> Who
>>
>> 14 Yes
>>
>> Where
>>
>> LookSmart
>> 55 Second Street Suite 700
>> San Francisco CA 94105
>>
>> Update your RSVP
>>
>> 14 Perl Mongers RSVPed Yes, including?
>>
>> see all
>> Meetup Description
>>
>> Jeff Thalhammer will be back to speak about Perl-Critic again on July
>> 27th at 7pm, at the office of LookSmart.
>>
>> As any Perl developer will tell you, There's More Than One Way To Do
>> It. But over time, we all learn that Some Ways Are Better Than Others.
>>
>> Perl-Critic is a static source code analyzer based on Damian Conway's
>> book Perl Best Practices. In this presentation, you'll learn how to
>> use Perl-Critic to improve the quality and maintainability of your
>> code. We'll cover the perlcritic command-line tool and the
>> Test::Perl::Critic module, as well as tips for policy selection and
>> incorporating Perl-Critic into your development culture. We'll also
>> demonstrate how to extend Perl-Critic with your own custom policies.
>>
>> Perl-Critic - http://perlcritic.com/
>>
>> Jeff Thalhammer's CPAN page - http://search.cpan.org/~thaljef/
>>
>> Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce
>>
>> This Meetup Group is sponsored by
>>
>> Red Hot Penguin Consulting ? The Human Creativity Project ? Six Apart
>> ? O'Reilly Media ? Silver Lining Networks ? Biztos
>>
>> Add info at meetup.com to your address book to receive all Meetup emails
>>
>> To manage your email settings for this group, click here
>>
>> Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668
>>
>> Meetup HQ in NYC is hiring! http://www.meetup.com/jobs/
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>>
>

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Tue Jul 27 18:04:13 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:04:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Reminder: Perl-Critic in Depth is in one week.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=127ub7uXnR_B0wZ1pCzqKGrLAcg7cQ_F1ONeq@mail.gmail.com>
References: <613330803.1279660711920.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com>
	<AANLkTikrjolwF3v0kI-QbOgRki3SRyBR_fxYu6w6rQjH@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=127ub7uXnR_B0wZ1pCzqKGrLAcg7cQ_F1ONeq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201007280104.o6S14Da7002766@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Last I heard, we hadn't got a ruling on that from the folks over there.

I'm about to ride MUNI over there myself, I could pack up my bike locks
for you if you like.



Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know if it's OK to bring a bicycle into LookSmart's building?
>
> Paul, who forgot his lock at home...


From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Tue Jul 27 18:06:53 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:06:53 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Reminder: Perl-Critic in Depth is in one week.
In-Reply-To: <201007280104.o6S14Da7002766@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <613330803.1279660711920.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com> 
	<AANLkTikrjolwF3v0kI-QbOgRki3SRyBR_fxYu6w6rQjH@mail.gmail.com> 
	<AANLkTi=127ub7uXnR_B0wZ1pCzqKGrLAcg7cQ_F1ONeq@mail.gmail.com> 
	<201007280104.o6S14Da7002766@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin-H1-ccJy3DkO2e96TSe=d6-DUJhUPtqEona6w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a lot Joe & Fred! I think Fred has me covered here.

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 18:04, Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> Last I heard, we hadn't got a ruling on that from the folks over there.
>
> I'm about to ride MUNI over there myself, I could pack up my bike locks
> for you if you like.
>
>
>
> Paul Makepeace <Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if it's OK to bring a bicycle into LookSmart's building?
>>
>> Paul, who forgot his lock at home...
>
>

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Wed Jul 28 12:07:44 2010
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:07:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Raduko Star Install Party - Tues, Aug 3, 2010 at 7:00pm
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=i4X_ijK+jxxoi97ihZ4qaD=BvuuWMAaFK2GL=@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=i4X_ijK+jxxoi97ihZ4qaD=BvuuWMAaFK2GL=@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimXCJk3-O_t3L1T3q5o4LvAKfsFcZ0E+a71btQC@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mongers,

As mentioned at last night's meeting, I'd like to offer my place in
Bernal Heights Tuesday next week from 7:00pm until whenever for a
Raduko Star installation & Perl 6 lightning talks. As some of you may
know a significant milestone in Perl 6's release history is coming up
this Thursday, http://rakudo.org/node/73 and what better way to get
through an install than with local PM'ers!

For those that haven't been chez moi we have a basement, bar,
projector, wifi, yard, BBQ, etc so we can eat, drink & give
presentations. There's space for at least a dozen seated inside, and
more outside (for those that can withstand the Day Star).

Who's interested in something like this? How about giving a talk?
Doesn't need powerpoint but we have a screen & sound if you do.
Anything at all raduko/perl6 related seems cool. Ping me off-list and
I'll collate.

If anyone has access to a printer & photocopier and can produce a few
'cheatsheets' that would be great too. Please let me know!

Summary:
What: Rakudo Star Install Party
When: Tuesday 3rd August 2010, 19:00 'til (e.g.) 22:00
Where: Paul's place, SF, 94110 (address on RSVP)
What to bring: computer, snacks & drinks (although I'll seed unless
someone wants to sponsor it?!). We could even BBQ!
RSVP: Yes, http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14243128/
(I've set this to 20 max; we can see how that goes)

Bonus feature: there's a ton of interesting links in bite-sized chunks
at http://twitter.com/rakudoperl

Paul

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Thu Jul 29 09:34:15 2010
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:34:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl 6...
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=qE=M8EktJpRnepNPH1XyyQd32jqDkRtq57aXh@mail.gmail.com>

... has arrived.

http://rakudo.org/node/75


Come take it for a test drive next Tuesday evening:

http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14243128/

From matt at lanier.org  Thu Jul 29 09:45:52 2010
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:45:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl 6...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=qE=M8EktJpRnepNPH1XyyQd32jqDkRtq57aXh@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=qE=M8EktJpRnepNPH1XyyQd32jqDkRtq57aXh@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1007290945210.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>

well, i guess that's the death knell of the repackage-ruby-as-perl6 
joke.

m@

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010, Fred Moyer wrote:

> ... has arrived.
>
> http://rakudo.org/node/75
>
>
> Come take it for a test drive next Tuesday evening:
>
> http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14243128/
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Thu Jul 29 10:55:51 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:55:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl 6...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1007290945210.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <AANLkTi=qE=M8EktJpRnepNPH1XyyQd32jqDkRtq57aXh@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.1007290945210.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <201007291755.o6THtpeB040308@kzsu.stanford.edu>


Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> wrote:

> > Fred Moyer wrote:
> >
> > > ... has arrived.
> > >
> > > http://rakudo.org/node/75

> well, i guess that's the death knell of the repackage-ruby-as-perl6
> joke.

No, that's "rakudo star *plus*".

(I was just building rakudo from source the other day, and a "make
install" *still* didn't install a perl6 binary... I have to run
from the build tree.)

> > Come take it for a test drive next Tuesday evening:
> >
> > http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/14243128/


From david at fetter.org  Thu Jul 29 12:21:57 2010
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:21:57 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl 6...
In-Reply-To: <201007291755.o6THtpeB040308@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTi=qE=M8EktJpRnepNPH1XyyQd32jqDkRtq57aXh@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.1007290945210.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<201007291755.o6THtpeB040308@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <20100729192157.GE2116@fetter.org>

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 10:55:51AM -0700, Joe Brenner wrote:
> 
> Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> wrote:
> 
> > > Fred Moyer wrote:
> > >
> > > > ... has arrived.
> > > >
> > > > http://rakudo.org/node/75
> 
> > well, i guess that's the death knell of the repackage-ruby-as-perl6
> > joke.
> 
> No, that's "rakudo star *plus*".

The whole ruby-as-perl6 thing was tired and silly its first week out.
Let's just let it die. :)

> (I was just building rakudo from source the other day, and a "make
> install" *still* didn't install a perl6 binary... I have to run
> from the build tree.)

My distro ships it :)


    $ perl6 -v
    This is Rakudo Perl 6, version 2010.06 built on parrot 2.6.0

    Copyright 2008-2010, The Perl Foundation

Cheers,
David.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From matt at lanier.org  Thu Jul 29 13:29:51 2010
From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:29:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl 6...
In-Reply-To: <20100729192157.GE2116@fetter.org>
References: <AANLkTi=qE=M8EktJpRnepNPH1XyyQd32jqDkRtq57aXh@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.1007290945210.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<201007291755.o6THtpeB040308@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<20100729192157.GE2116@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1007291328520.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010, David Fetter wrote:

>> Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> wrote:

>>> well, i guess that's the death knell of the repackage-ruby-as-perl6
>>> joke.

> The whole ruby-as-perl6 thing was tired and silly its first week out.
> Let's just let it die. :)

yes, hence the point of my comment. :-)

m@

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Thu Jul 29 15:21:24 2010
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:21:24 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl 6...
In-Reply-To: <20100729192157.GE2116@fetter.org>
References: <AANLkTi=qE=M8EktJpRnepNPH1XyyQd32jqDkRtq57aXh@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.1007290945210.6737@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
	<201007291755.o6THtpeB040308@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<20100729192157.GE2116@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <201007292221.o6TMLOPf045083@kzsu.stanford.edu>


David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> Joe Brenner wrote:
> > Matthew Lanier <matt at lanier.org> wrote:
> > > > Fred Moyer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > ... has arrived.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://rakudo.org/node/75
> >
> > > well, i guess that's the death knell of the repackage-ruby-as-perl6
> > > joke.
> >
> > No, that's "rakudo star *plus*".
>
> The whole ruby-as-perl6 thing was tired and silly its first week out.
> Let's just let it die. :)

But the geekier thing to do [1] would be to compile an exhaustive
list of every known perl6 joke, funny or not.

[1] actually, perhaps I mean "nerdier"