From eruby at knowledgematters.net Mon Jan 4 16:26:13 2010 From: eruby at knowledgematters.net (Earl Ruby) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:26:13 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) Message-ID: The company I work for has a contract opening for a Senior Perl Programmer in San Francisco: http://www.switchmanagement.com/programmer_position.html E-mail me if you have any questions. -- Earl Ruby http://earlruby.org/ From parallax99 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 4 16:36:15 2010 From: parallax99 at hotmail.com (Stefan Amshey) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:36:15 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Earl- Thanks for the heads up regarding this position. Can you tell me, please, what is the intended length of the contract, and is there a compensation range specified? Thanks! /Stefan - Stefan Amshey parallax99 at hotmail.com > Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:26:13 -0800 > From: eruby at knowledgematters.net > To: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org > Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) > > The company I work for has a contract opening for a Senior Perl > Programmer in San Francisco: > http://www.switchmanagement.com/programmer_position.html > > E-mail me if you have any questions. > > -- > Earl Ruby > http://earlruby.org/ > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From parallax99 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 4 16:37:36 2010 From: parallax99 at hotmail.com (Stefan Amshey) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:37:36 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Oh sorry folks... forgot about reply-to-all.... *blush* /S - Stefan Amshey parallax99 at hotmail.com From: parallax99 at hotmail.com To: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:36:15 -0800 Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) Hi Earl- Thanks for the heads up regarding this position. Can you tell me, please, what is the intended length of the contract, and is there a compensation range specified? Thanks! /Stefan - Stefan Amshey parallax99 at hotmail.com > Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:26:13 -0800 > From: eruby at knowledgematters.net > To: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org > Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) > > The company I work for has a contract opening for a Senior Perl > Programmer in San Francisco: > http://www.switchmanagement.com/programmer_position.html > > E-mail me if you have any questions. > > -- > Earl Ruby > http://earlruby.org/ > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Jan 4 16:40:57 2010 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:40:57 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Amshey's message of "Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:37:36 -0800") References: Message-ID: <86y6kdxu1y.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Stefan" == Stefan Amshey writes: Stefan> Oh sorry folks... forgot about reply-to-all.... *blush* which is why http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html is especially useful on one particular dimension: if reply-to is set, an error results in TOO MANY PEOPLE SEEING IT if reply-to is not set, the error results in too few people, which can be remedied by resending. Why in the world, in this day and age, does anyone still set reply-to for lists? Haven't we all learned the "wide reply" button in our mailer by now? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Jan 4 16:50:17 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:50:17 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Earl, For job related postings, please use the [job] tag in the subject line of the posting. SF.pm welcomes all job postings to the list that are related to Perl :) On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Earl Ruby wrote: > The company I work for has a contract opening for a Senior Perl > Programmer in San Francisco: > http://www.switchmanagement.com/programmer_position.html > > E-mail me if you have any questions. > > -- > Earl Ruby > http://earlruby.org/ > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Jan 4 17:01:47 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:01:47 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [list etiquette] [was] Re: Senior Perl... Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> "Stefan" == Stefan Amshey writes: > > Stefan> Oh sorry folks... forgot about reply-to-all.... *blush* > > which is why http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html > is especially useful on one particular dimension: > > if reply-to is set, an error results in TOO MANY PEOPLE SEEING IT Only the people on the list see it, so I fail to understand how that can be too many. Mistakes do happen when sending emails to the list, so I don't see a case here of reply-to being a major nuisance. > if reply-to is not set, the error results in too few people, which can be > remedied by resending. This I will agree with, and I think is the primary reason for the current settings. > Why in the world, in this day and age, does anyone still set reply-to > for lists? ?Haven't we all learned the "wide reply" button in our > mailer by now? It's a matter of preference, and reply-to is the preference of the current and past SF Perl Mongers. This is laid out very plainly and clearly in the email you received when you signed up for the list. However, enough with the fire and brimstone :) Let's take a vote! http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/polls/219187/ From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Jan 4 17:14:39 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:14:39 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] January Meeting, "Writing CPAN Modules" Message-ID: Happy New Year SF.pm! We going to start off the year right with a talk from Joe Brenner, our Speakers Co-Chair. http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/ Our January meeting will take place on Tuesday January 26 at Six Apart World Headquarters. "Writing CPAN Modules" by Joseph Brenner A talk in three parts: (1) how-to for beginners (2) portability problems (3) ExtUtils::MakeMaker vs. Module::Build vs. Module::Install In the first part, we will emphasize how easy it is, in the second part, we will demonstrate that we were lying in the first part, and in the third part we will endeavor to provoke a religous war in the audience. Joe Brenner's CPAN page: http://search.cpan.org/~doom/ Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce From extasia at extasia.org Mon Jan 4 17:14:48 2010 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:14:48 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) In-Reply-To: <86y6kdxu1y.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <86y6kdxu1y.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <4c714a9c1001041714p945081dx2ad860855c12f0a4@mail.gmail.com> i find that most people are too busy to check and/or give to little thought to checking the to: and cc: fields before they send their messages. if they did that, they'd probably Get It Right(TM) every time. On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > Why in the world, in this day and age, does anyone still set reply-to > for lists? ?Haven't we all learned the "wide reply" button in our > mailer by now? -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Jan 4 19:22:18 2010 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:22:18 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c1001041714p945081dx2ad860855c12f0a4@mail.gmail.com> (David Alban's message of "Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:14:48 -0800") References: <86y6kdxu1y.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <4c714a9c1001041714p945081dx2ad860855c12f0a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86tyv1xml1.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "David" == David Alban writes: David> i find that most people are too busy to check and/or give to little David> thought to checking the to: and cc: fields before they send their David> messages. if they did that, they'd probably Get It Right(TM) every David> time. Right, which is why you learn, for your personal email, your company email, and for *proper* mailing lists that [this button] means "send it only to one guy" and [that button] means "send it to a lot of people". This works *EVERYWHERE* except evil mailing lists that set reply-to. Like this one. No surprise that a lot of mistakes are made on lists like this. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Jan 4 19:25:10 2010 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:25:10 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [list etiquette] In-Reply-To: (Fred Moyer's message of "Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:01:47 -0800") References: Message-ID: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Fred" == Fred Moyer writes: >> if reply-to is set, an error results in TOO MANY PEOPLE SEEING IT Fred> Only the people on the list see it, so I fail to understand how that Fred> can be too many. A private message for one person sent to 100 people is 99 too many. How hard is that to see? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Mon Jan 4 20:18:14 2010 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:18:14 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [list etiquette] In-Reply-To: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > "Fred" == Fred Moyer writes: > >> if reply-to is set, an error results in TOO MANY PEOPLE SEEING IT > > Fred> Only the people on the list see it, so I fail to understand how that > Fred> can be too many. > > A private message for one person sent to 100 people is 99 too many. > How hard is that to see? I'm inclined to agree with Randal on this one. The current setting is designed to build up list traffic at the expense of occasional embarrassment to the list members. It would seem that this is Not Nice. From simon at thegestalt.org Mon Jan 4 21:28:23 2010 From: simon at thegestalt.org (Simon Wistow) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 05:28:23 +0000 Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) In-Reply-To: <86tyv1xml1.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <86y6kdxu1y.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <4c714a9c1001041714p945081dx2ad860855c12f0a4@mail.gmail.com> <86tyv1xml1.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <20100105052823.GY46281@thegestalt.org> On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 07:22:18PM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz said: > This works *EVERYWHERE* except evil mailing lists that set reply-to. Like > this one. No surprise that a lot of mistakes are made on lists like this. Weirdly enough I set up this page when you and I had exactly the same argument 9 years ago http://thegestalt.org/simon/replytorant.html The dicussion was exceedinly boring then and it hasn't freshened in the intervening decade From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Jan 4 21:39:17 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 21:39:17 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) In-Reply-To: <20100105052823.GY46281@thegestalt.org> References: <86y6kdxu1y.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <4c714a9c1001041714p945081dx2ad860855c12f0a4@mail.gmail.com> <86tyv1xml1.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <20100105052823.GY46281@thegestalt.org> Message-ID: <20100105053916.GU5824@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Simon Wistow (simon at thegestalt.org): > The dicussion was exceedinly boring then and it hasn't freshened in the > intervening decade Except that, ironically, IETF resolved the dispute _against_ such munging, later the same year as the datestamps on your collation, in RFCs 2822 and 2369. (IETF settling the dispute hasn't prevented advocates from wanting munging anyway, of course.) From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com Tue Jan 5 05:17:57 2010 From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:17:57 +0000 Subject: [sf-perl] Senior Perl Programmer (Contract) In-Reply-To: <86tyv1xml1.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <86y6kdxu1y.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <4c714a9c1001041714p945081dx2ad860855c12f0a4@mail.gmail.com> <86tyv1xml1.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 3:22 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> "David" == David Alban writes: > > David> i find that most people are too busy to check and/or give to little > David> thought to checking the to: and cc: fields before they send their > David> messages. ?if they did that, they'd probably Get It Right(TM) every > David> time. > > Right, which is why you learn, for your personal email, your company email, > and for *proper* mailing lists that [this button] means "send it only to one > guy" and [that button] means "send it to a lot of people". > > This works *EVERYWHERE* except evil mailing lists that set reply-to. ?Like > this one. ?No surprise that a lot of mistakes are made on lists like this. The "cost" of the occasional misstep: one, maybe, two harmless emails a year that (nearly) nobody pays attention to. ...and when Randal brings this up, without fail, even on lists that have had this as an explicit policy for over a decade: a whole lot more, and ever more tedious each time 'round ;-) P From extasia at extasia.org Tue Jan 5 10:00:32 2010 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:00:32 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [list etiquette] In-Reply-To: <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> despite cries of "oh no not this issue again" i have to say that i, too, think reply-to-sender as the default for the list is much more kinder than reply-to-list. it seems that reply to list favors the "corporation"[1] and not the individual, perhaps with the goal of increasing discussion on the list. i would favor saving someone who intended to send a private email from being embarrassed by inadvertently sending to the whole list, over someone who meant to reply to the list inadvertently responding only to the sender, every time. in the former case, damage of a personal nature may occur. there is nothing the sender can do at that point. the damage is done. in the latter case, the list gets one fewer email message, and when the person realizes that it didn't reach the list, they can always resend. problem solved! completely. people potentially being personally damaged--very bad. people not getting a response that was intended to go to the list--hardly an issue at all. and very easily correctable. yes, i'm the one who wrote that folks should pay more attention to the to: and cc: fields when they send. i still think that. but i think reply-to-sender is far more forgiving and far more humane than reply-to-list as the default setting. [1] or in this case, this group as a whole On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Joe Brenner wrote: > I'm inclined to agree with Randal on this one. ?The current setting is > designed to build up list traffic at the expense of occasional > embarrassment to the list members. ?It would seem that this is Not Nice. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From matt at lanier.org Tue Jan 5 10:35:43 2010 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:35:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] thread resolution, for now (was Re: [list etiquette]) In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: (david- thanks for turning the thread toward etiquette, and away from the original post at hand.) all- i'm the list grandma around here. for those new here, fred is list mom, though i, along with silent co-founder david lowe, maintain oversight and list mom support as needed. the sfpug is a place founded on friendliness within the perl community, after i got flamed too many times on comp.lang.perl.misc by tom who-shall-not-be-named. over the years, we've maintained that friendliness despite friendly rivalries, competing modules, and sometimes diverging notions of how the community should move forward. but i'm proud what we've maintained: folks like the morins and david fetter, who were at the first meeting and came to my frickin' wedding, are still around; smurf, still working at mother jones in the time that many of us have had several jobs, is still here, as are many old timers; new folks are joining. that is a rousing success! lets not change that. so..... when list tenor turns negative (as it has) it's time to step back and breathe for a second. so lets do that. here's how: * fred has posted a meetup link to take a vote on on folks' preferences regarding reply-to settings. please vote here: * the senior staff around here (basically, the folks that show up early to help, which are fred, me, joe, julian) will evaluate these results along with our experience from other lists, and will come back with a decision. * that decision will be discussed *first* at a meeting, confined to 15 minutes of explanation, and the topic will be closed for another 2 years, or perl 6 comes out, whichever is sooner ;-). we will then post the decision to the list. * if you are personally injured by this decision (rather than just annoyed), we will find a way to make you whole again. * we will the move on, discussing ways to bless regular expressions and how to violate closures, as we are wont to do :-) thank you randall, david, simon, and all who have expressed opinion on this topic. your opinions (and summaries of past times this has come up) are noted and appreciated. please strongly consider not responding to this message, instead moving on to doing what you love, which if you are here, is probably perl. peace- m@ From josh at agliodbs.com Tue Jan 5 11:54:52 2010 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:54:52 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [list etiquette] In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B43990C.9000903@agliodbs.com> On 1/5/10 10:00 AM, David Alban wrote: > despite cries of "oh no not this issue again" i have to say that i, > too, think reply-to-sender as the default for the list is much more > kinder than reply-to-list. FWIW, both Thunderbird and Kmail have working and useful "Reply-to-List" buttons now. --Josh Berkus From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Tue Jan 5 12:16:21 2010 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:16:21 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] thread resolution, for now (was Re: [list etiquette]) In-Reply-To: References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <201001052016.o05KGLxd043135@kzsu.stanford.edu> This is all well and good... Matthew Lanier wrote: > * fred has posted a meetup link to take a vote on on folks' preferences > regarding reply-to settings. please vote here: > > But if you call for a vote, you can't expect people to suddenly shut-up. What you can expect is some politicking: people will want to make "campaign statments" to try to presuade people to vote their way. But of course, we can ask that people keep it to a reasonable minimum (or else someone may be inspired to create campaign rules or some such). From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue Jan 5 12:24:38 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:24:38 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] thread resolution, for now (was Re: [list etiquette]) In-Reply-To: <201001052016.o05KGLxd043135@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> <201001052016.o05KGLxd043135@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Joe Brenner wrote: > Matthew Lanier wrote: > >> * fred has posted a meetup link to take a vote on on folks' preferences >> regarding reply-to settings. ?please vote here: >> >> ? ? ? > > But if you call for a vote, you can't expect people to suddenly shut-up. > What you can expect is some politicking: people will want to make > "campaign statments" to try to presuade people to vote their way. > > But of course, we can ask that people keep it to a reasonable minimum > (or else someone may be inspired to create campaign rules or some such). Let's reserve a slot of 10 or 15 minutes at the January meeting for discussion of this matter; after all, this group is about the people in it, and those people who come to the meetings have made this group what it is today. Randal, David, Simon, Rick, etc - you are all very welcome to join us on January 26th in person. With over 14 events in 2009, SF.pm is certainly one of the more pre-eminent Perl Mongers groups around now, so this is a great opportunity to come and participate with some of the best and most motivated in the community :) http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/ From simon at thegestalt.org Tue Jan 5 12:34:00 2010 From: simon at thegestalt.org (Simon Wistow) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 20:34:00 +0000 Subject: [sf-perl] thread resolution, for now (was Re: [list etiquette]) In-Reply-To: References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> <201001052016.o05KGLxd043135@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <20100105203400.GA46281@thegestalt.org> On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 12:24:38PM -0800, Fred Moyer said: > Randal, David, Simon, Rick, etc - you are all very welcome to join us > on January 26th in person. Thanks - and apologies if my mail last night seemed a little on the snarky side. I just thought it was amusing that this argument is still repeating after 10 years. Personally I don't care either way - I just want the discussion to stop :) The mailing list mention in my collation had an interesting solution - we had the main list 'void' which has reply-to munging and then 'void-pure' which did not. The two were subscribed to each other and you just subbed to which ever flavour you liked. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Jan 5 13:08:32 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:08:32 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] thread resolution, for now (was Re: [list etiquette]) In-Reply-To: <20100105203400.GA46281@thegestalt.org> References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> <201001052016.o05KGLxd043135@kzsu.stanford.edu> <20100105203400.GA46281@thegestalt.org> Message-ID: <20100105210832.GZ5824@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Simon Wistow (simon at thegestalt.org): > I just thought it was amusing that this argument is still repeating > after 10 years. Especially since IETF settled it _9_ years ago. (Anyway, fortunately for me, mutt autoignores munging. ;-> ) -- Rick Moen "Having the right word is much more satisfying than just rick at linuxmafia.com sleeping around with any old word that comes along." -- FakeAPStylebook From eruby at knowledgematters.net Wed Jan 6 11:02:00 2010 From: eruby at knowledgematters.net (Earl Ruby) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:02:00 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] thread resolution, for now (was Re: [list etiquette]) In-Reply-To: <20100105203400.GA46281@thegestalt.org> References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> <201001052016.o05KGLxd043135@kzsu.stanford.edu> <20100105203400.GA46281@thegestalt.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Simon Wistow wrote: > The mailing list mention in my collation had an interesting solution - > we had the main list 'void' which has reply-to munging and then > 'void-pure' which did not. The two were subscribed to each other and you > just subbed to which ever flavour you liked. You mean that people might want more than one option? Sounds like you're advocating that "there's more than one way to do it"... Interesting that so many folks on the Perl list are sure that there's only one right way. -- Earl Ruby http://earlruby.org/ From greg at blekko.com Wed Jan 6 11:43:09 2010 From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:43:09 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] thread resolution, for now (was Re: [list etiquette]) In-Reply-To: References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> <201001052016.o05KGLxd043135@kzsu.stanford.edu> <20100105203400.GA46281@thegestalt.org> Message-ID: <20100106194309.GA17233@bx9.net> > Interesting that so many folks on the Perl list are sure that there's > only one right way. Neah, we'll blame the mailing list software (written in Python) for not having that as a personally-configurable option. -- greg From biztos at mac.com Wed Jan 6 11:45:44 2010 From: biztos at mac.com (frosty) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:45:44 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [job] FWD: Perl Developer for Large-scale Systems Dev. - New York, NY - $100K - $200K Message-ID: <86856996721968730038840068520846710750-Webmail@me.com> Hello all, and greetings from the European campus of SF.pm! I don't usually forward want ads, but I saw a job listing elsewhere that looked like exactly the kind of thing I know some of you are really really good at, and I thought I'd pass it on. It's not in the Bay Area but in this day and age it's silly to make assumptions about the geography of serious jobs or serious developers. I have no connection to the recruiter, his company, or his client. At least I think I don't; I have no idea who the client is. Please contact him, not me, if you're interested; all the contact info is listed below. (aside: hmm, it sounds like Apple, except for the NY part) cheers -- frosty ** The Job Listing: Perl Developer for Large-scale Systems Dev. - New York, NY - $100K - $200K Large world-class software company is looking for expert Perl developers to come work on infrastructure developed in Perl that is used to manage a very large-scale C/C++ codebase. This person would be working along side some of the biggest names in the Perl community building all kinds of Perl build/release tools and other software development tools from scratch. Are you a true Perl hacker who has done large-scale Perl development and now want to take your career to the next level? Come on and check this out! Qualified candidates should: - be strong with OO Perl and modern Perl practices. - have worked on large-scale Perl programs and not just small Perl scripts. - have a strong UNIX/Linux background & strong OS knowledge/skills in general. - have some skills in networking & network programming. - have at least a basic understanding of compiler/linker theory. - have some exposure to C and C++ programming. ** The Recruiter: Gil Vander Voort Core Search Group http://www.coresearchinc.com email: gil at coresearchinc.com http://coresearchgroup.blogspot.com http://twitter.com/gilcvv 803-318-1376 From josh at agliodbs.com Wed Jan 6 11:49:34 2010 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:49:34 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] thread resolution, for now (was Re: [list etiquette]) In-Reply-To: <20100106194309.GA17233@bx9.net> References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> <201001052016.o05KGLxd043135@kzsu.stanford.edu> <20100105203400.GA46281@thegestalt.org> <20100106194309.GA17233@bx9.net> Message-ID: <4B44E94E.5070302@agliodbs.com> On 1/6/10 11:43 AM, Greg Lindahl wrote: >> Interesting that so many folks on the Perl list are sure that there's >> only one right way. > > Neah, we'll blame the mailing list software (written in Python) for > not having that as a personally-configurable option. Because majordomo is so much better at that ... --Josh (amused that this is the longest thread on sf.pm in around a year) From extasia at extasia.org Wed Jan 6 11:52:02 2010 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:52:02 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] thread resolution, for now (was Re: [list etiquette]) In-Reply-To: <4B44E94E.5070302@agliodbs.com> References: <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> <201001052016.o05KGLxd043135@kzsu.stanford.edu> <20100105203400.GA46281@thegestalt.org> <20100106194309.GA17233@bx9.net> <4B44E94E.5070302@agliodbs.com> Message-ID: <4c714a9c1001061152k44530ea9q67561d0ed850ac40@mail.gmail.com> perhaps that's a good thing? On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Josh Berkus wrote: > (amused that this is the longest thread on sf.pm in around a year) -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jan 6 11:52:00 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:52:00 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] thread resolution, for now (was Re: [list etiquette]) In-Reply-To: <20100106194309.GA17233@bx9.net> References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> <201001052016.o05KGLxd043135@kzsu.stanford.edu> <20100105203400.GA46281@thegestalt.org> <20100106194309.GA17233@bx9.net> Message-ID: <20100106195200.GA10073@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Greg Lindahl (greg at blekko.com): > Neah, we'll blame the mailing list software (written in Python) for > not having that as a personally-configurable option. Come to think of that: Individual subscribers can always make their local delivery agents (e.g., procmail) insert whatever headers they want. -- Rick Moen "The word 'totally' is redundant except when rick at linuxmafia.com describing how rad something is." -- FakeAPStylebook From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Jan 6 11:54:52 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:54:52 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Favorite form validation modules? Message-ID: I've been using Data::FormValidator for a few years now and think it is the best thing since sliced bread (not that I don't like slicing my own bread that is). It is nice because it's simple, comes with a number of existing constraints, and also is easy to integrate with existing systems. I'm interested in hearing what others are using for form validation. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Jan 6 12:29:10 2010 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 12:29:10 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] thread resolution, for now In-Reply-To: <20100106195200.GA10073@linuxmafia.com> (Rick Moen's message of "Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:52:00 -0800") References: <86pr5pxmg9.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <201001050418.o054IEqq030884@kzsu.stanford.edu> <4c714a9c1001051000i5056b149x4acf407c8326c0c5@mail.gmail.com> <201001052016.o05KGLxd043135@kzsu.stanford.edu> <20100105203400.GA46281@thegestalt.org> <20100106194309.GA17233@bx9.net> <20100106195200.GA10073@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <86637ft1t5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Rick" == Rick Moen writes: Rick> Come to think of that: Individual subscribers can always make their Rick> local delivery agents (e.g., procmail) insert whatever headers they want. As long as the list software doesn't lose information, as overwriting reply-to with the list name will do. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From extasia at extasia.org Wed Jan 6 13:31:45 2010 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:31:45 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] grep -P Message-ID: <4c714a9c1001061331x44eeb48an2e4eb470dcd1c7d2@mail.gmail.com> eh... mah... gawd... ! from the grep man page on a red hat enterprise linux machine: -P, --perl-regexp Interpret PATTERN as a Perl regular expression. wonder how long that's been there without me knowing about it. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Jan 6 13:34:57 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:34:57 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] grep -P In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c1001061331x44eeb48an2e4eb470dcd1c7d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c1001061331x44eeb48an2e4eb470dcd1c7d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:31 PM, David Alban wrote: > eh... ? ?mah... ? ?gawd... ?! > > from the grep man page on a red hat enterprise linux machine: > > ? ? ? -P, --perl-regexp > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Interpret PATTERN as a Perl regular expression. > > wonder how long that's been there without me knowing about it. Andy Lester is very recently unsubscribed from this list, but he would tell you to use App::Ack. And after using it for quite a while now, I highly recommend it. http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/ack-1.92/Ack.pm From david at fetter.org Wed Jan 6 13:35:49 2010 From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:35:49 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] grep -P In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c1001061331x44eeb48an2e4eb470dcd1c7d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c1001061331x44eeb48an2e4eb470dcd1c7d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100106213549.GA5299@fetter.org> On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 01:31:45PM -0800, David Alban wrote: > eh... mah... gawd... ! > > from the grep man page on a red hat enterprise linux machine: > > -P, --perl-regexp > Interpret PATTERN as a Perl regular expression. > > wonder how long that's been there without me knowing about it. Probably PCRE, which is great for biting yourself on the butt just when you thought you were safe to use all of Perl's regex. :P Cheers, David. -- David Fetter http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Jan 6 13:42:11 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:42:11 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] grep -P In-Reply-To: References: <4c714a9c1001061331x44eeb48an2e4eb470dcd1c7d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Here's a better link to ack - http://betterthangrep.com/ On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:31 PM, David Alban wrote: >> eh... ? ?mah... ? ?gawd... ?! >> >> from the grep man page on a red hat enterprise linux machine: >> >> ? ? ? -P, --perl-regexp >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Interpret PATTERN as a Perl regular expression. >> >> wonder how long that's been there without me knowing about it. > > Andy Lester is very recently unsubscribed from this list, but he would > tell you to use App::Ack. ?And after using it for quite a while now, I > highly recommend it. > > http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/ack-1.92/Ack.pm > From moseley at hank.org Wed Jan 6 14:38:35 2010 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 14:38:35 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Favorite form validation modules? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16f65d001001061438h35cbe243qde91ad25db58ed6f@mail.gmail.com> I wrote and use Form::Processor. I have used a number of modules for validation. Most were about specifying forms via a config file and rendering HTML markup. I really like Rose::HTML::Objects, but found myself customizing it to the point where I realized I should just start from scratch. I was less interested in rendering mark up. That's pretty easy anyway, and I also need custom markup more often than not so the automatic rendering never quite worked for me. I was more interested in the other side -- where the data comes and goes from the store (mostly database). So, Form::Processor can work with ORMs, for example, to automatically populate lookup lists and update many-to-many relationships. I also need more than config-based validation parameters. In Form::Processor fields and forms are classes. So adding new custom fields is easy, and forms can contain methods to do much more complex things than can be done with config-based forms. And, of course, forms can inherit from other forms as can fields. I was also interested in removing much of the code I felt I was repeating often in controllers. For an example see: http://search.cpan.org/~hank/Catalyst-Plugin-Form-Processor-0.06/lib/Catalyst/Plugin/Form/Processor.pm There's two or three "model" classes for Form::Processor -- they basically interface with a specific ORM. I used Class::DBI quite a bit so that's the one I wrote. Gerda Shank wrote one for DBIx::Class. I'm using a customized verion of the DBIx::Class one now -- the one Gerda wrote tries to cover more situations but as a result has some bugs. Gerda also attempted to rewrite Form::Processor using Moose instead of Rose::Object. I could never get it to pass my test suite and didn' t have time to work on it. So, Gerda released HTML::FormHandler which is based on Form::Processor. I've been meaning to try it with a project some day soon. I'd recommend trying it. -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Wed Jan 6 15:29:03 2010 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:29:03 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Favorite form validation modules? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe it's my lack of front-end-web-rendering experience showing, but what kind of form validation are you doing? My office generally designs forms so that fields either don't need validation (a list of state abbreviations instead of a text box; a Javascript date picker) or are validated by Javascript (checking email address formatting or credit card number formatting). That way the user gets immediate feedback and doesn't have to send the form to the server for validation. For things like full text search fields, we just throw the query at the full text search server and let it figure it out. I guess I don't understand why "form validation" is something you'd want a special perl module for. -- Mike PS - We don't use Perl for HTML generation, since everything we do is heavily customized and hand-tweaked. ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu On Jan 6, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Fred Moyer wrote: > I've been using Data::FormValidator for a few years now and think it > is the best thing since sliced bread (not that I don't like slicing my > own bread that is). > > It is nice because it's simple, comes with a number of existing > constraints, and also is easy to integrate with existing systems. > > I'm interested in hearing what others are using for form validation. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Jan 6 15:34:56 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:34:56 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Favorite form validation modules? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Michael Friedman wrote: > Maybe it's my lack of front-end-web-rendering experience showing, but what kind of form validation are you doing? Either ajax based or the traditional full form post. Validation such as credit card numbers, phone numbers, states, zip codes, email addresses, etc. > My office generally designs forms so that fields either don't need validation (a list of state abbreviations instead of a text box; a Javascript date picker) or are validated by Javascript (checking email address formatting or credit card number formatting). That way the user gets immediate feedback and doesn't have to send the form to the server for validation. For things like full text search fields, we just throw the query at the full text search server and let it figure it out. > > I guess I don't understand why "form validation" is something you'd want a special perl module for. Javascript validation is good, but won't validate submissions through mechanized interfaces (which includes spammers). Getting full browser compatibility is something you don't have to worry about also when you have the server side handling the form validation. > > -- Mike > > PS - We don't use Perl for HTML generation, since everything we do is heavily customized and hand-tweaked. > ______________________________________________________________________________ > Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu > > On Jan 6, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Fred Moyer wrote: > >> I've been using Data::FormValidator for a few years now and think it >> is the best thing since sliced bread (not that I don't like slicing my >> own bread that is). >> >> It is nice because it's simple, comes with a number of existing >> constraints, and also is easy to integrate with existing systems. >> >> I'm interested in hearing what others are using for form validation. >> _______________________________________________ >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From cweyl at alumni.drew.edu Wed Jan 6 15:44:46 2010 From: cweyl at alumni.drew.edu (Chris Weyl) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:44:46 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Favorite form validation modules? In-Reply-To: <16f65d001001061438h35cbe243qde91ad25db58ed6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <16f65d001001061438h35cbe243qde91ad25db58ed6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7dd7ab491001061544s6f712377p9e33c860cbaa1918@mail.gmail.com> 2010/1/6 Bill Moseley : > Gerda also attempted to rewrite Form::Processor using Moose instead of > Rose::Object.? I could never get it to pass my test suite and didn' t have > time to work on it.? So, Gerda released HTML::FormHandler which is based on > Form::Processor.? I've been meaning to try it with a project some day soon. > I'd recommend trying it. I've used HTML::FormHandler with some success at $work. It still seems pretty young, but is being very actively developed; with HTML::FormHandler::Model::DBIC it tends to "just work" in most situations I find myself in with Catalyst/DBIC. -Chris -- Chris Weyl Ex astris, scientia From eruby at knowledgematters.net Wed Jan 6 18:01:53 2010 From: eruby at knowledgematters.net (Earl Ruby) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 18:01:53 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Favorite form validation modules? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Michael Friedman wrote: > I guess I don't understand why "form validation" is something you'd want a special perl module for. For all of my projects we do both Javascript validation (for the reasons you stated) and server-side (to make sure that users don't try anything sneaky -- like ask for data that they're not entitled to see). Any validation done in Javascript can be bypassed, so it's nice for users but insufficient for untrusted input. We also use database constraints, but if those get hit from the UI then something is broken. The server-side validation is also used for all back-end processing, so the same validation happens regardless of whether the input comes from the UI or some back-end process. The stuff I'm using currently is all home-grown (not grown by me), and I'd like to swap it out for standard CPAN modules, so I'm very interested in hearing about what other people are using. -- Earl Ruby http://earlruby.org/ From mcmahon at ibiblio.org Wed Jan 6 20:08:14 2010 From: mcmahon at ibiblio.org (Joe McMahon) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:08:14 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [job] FWD: Perl Developer for Large-scale Systems Dev. - New York, NY - $100K - $200K In-Reply-To: <86856996721968730038840068520846710750-Webmail@me.com> References: <86856996721968730038840068520846710750-Webmail@me.com> Message-ID: <76df99601001062008t64abe033je978873a5a0ee1e6@mail.gmail.com> I interviewed for this; will be happy to talk offline to anyone who wants to know more about it - as in who, what they're doing, and whether it's what you might be interested in. --- Joe M. From moseley at hank.org Wed Jan 6 20:52:17 2010 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:52:17 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Favorite form validation modules? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16f65d001001062052p6a4dda20rb5fab8c2ef1a22a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Michael Friedman < friedman at highwire.stanford.edu> wrote: > Maybe it's my lack of front-end-web-rendering experience showing, but what > kind of form validation are you doing? > > My office generally designs forms so that fields either don't need > validation (a list of state abbreviations instead of a text box; a > Javascript date picker) or are validated by Javascript (checking email > address formatting or credit card number formatting). That way the user gets > immediate feedback and doesn't have to send the form to the server for > validation. For things like full text search fields, we just throw the query > at the full text search server and let it figure it out. > > I guess I don't understand why "form validation" is something you'd want a > special perl module for. > In addition to what others have said about the importance of server side validation, a form is typically made up of a collection of data -- and the validation of it also depends on what's in the form itself. So, for me, I encapsulate that into a form object. It's a black box that works in two directions. One direction is taking user data (often in an HTML form, but could be anything), validate the input, and then if validated save to the data store. The other direction does the opposite and takes values from a store and creates the external representation. The simple example would be a DateTime object internally and a set of values for year, month, day externally. A more complex form might write to different database tables based on what input the form receives. Then in MVC the controller's job ends up being the traffic, eh, controller. Request comes in and is passed to the form object and if validated and successful redirect to the success page, if does not validate then show the form with errors. At least that's how I think of it... -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Wed Jan 6 23:38:00 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 23:38:00 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] BALUG: Tu 2010-01-19 Porting IPv4-only applications to IPv4/IPv6 dual stack by Owen DeLong Message-ID: <20100106233800.78796dost7asmjcw@webmail.rawbw.com> BALUG: Tu 2010-01-19 Porting IPv4-only applications to IPv4/IPv6 dual stack by Owen DeLong Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2010-01-19 Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our 2010-01-19 BALUG meeting, we're excited to present: Porting IPv4-only applications to IPv4/IPv6 dual stack by Owen DeLong, IPv6 Evangelist of Hurricane Electric[1] In "Porting IPv4-only applications to IPv4/IPv6 dual stack", we will learn the basics of IPv6 socket programming and see how to upgrade existing applications in C, PERL, and Python using "running code" examples prepared by Owen. Owen DeLong is an IPv6 Evangelist at Hurricane Electric and a member of the ARIN[2] Advisory Council. In these roles, he's intimately familiar with the details of IPv4 runout and the need to transition towards dual stack on existing applications to enable IPv6-only clients in the near future. presentation materials[3] 1. http://www.he.net/ 2. https://www.arin.net/ 3. http://owend.corp.he.net/ipv6/ So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, January 19th, 2010 2010-01-19 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13 Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org http://www.balug.org/ From extasia at extasia.org Fri Jan 8 16:47:11 2010 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 16:47:11 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] gmail spam: significant increase in false positives Message-ID: <4c714a9c1001081647l3e2b5f7aieaa526613d90aabb@mail.gmail.com> greetings, in the past few days i've just noticed a *significant* increase in false positives in gmail spam filtering. messages from senders or lists that never tripped the built-in filter functionality now often seem to trip them. example: an email in regard to an online order i placed with petco.com (something i've done often) recently eneded up in the spam folder. wtf? anyway, if you use gmail, i encourage you to check the Spam folder regularly for false positives. (something i used to do, then didn't, but now will do again) david -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From extasia at extasia.org Fri Jan 8 16:50:25 2010 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 16:50:25 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] gmail spam: significant increase in false positives In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c1001081647l3e2b5f7aieaa526613d90aabb@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c1001081647l3e2b5f7aieaa526613d90aabb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4c714a9c1001081650u5afed2a9ne45ba33db5cbe719@mail.gmail.com> shit. as i go through the Spam folder more and more, the increase is *serious*. /me grumbles and says many bad words On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 4:47 PM, David Alban wrote: > in the past few days i've just noticed a *significant* increase in > false positives in gmail spam filtering. ?messages from senders or > lists that never tripped the built-in filter functionality now often > seem to trip them. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri Jan 8 16:58:51 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 16:58:51 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] gmail spam: significant increase in false positives In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c1001081647l3e2b5f7aieaa526613d90aabb@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c1001081647l3e2b5f7aieaa526613d90aabb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I just noticed one FP in my spam folder. Gmail tends to go FPs as opposed to letting the spam through. Pretty easy to use Net::IMAP and friends to login and build a corpus of known senders, then search the spam folder for those. Except that for my non premium redhotpenguin account, there is only enough imap bandwidth available to open an imap client a couple times a week :( I've been using the web interface. On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 4:47 PM, David Alban wrote: > greetings, > > in the past few days i've just noticed a *significant* increase in > false positives in gmail spam filtering. ?messages from senders or > lists that never tripped the built-in filter functionality now often > seem to trip them. > > example: ?an email in regard to an online order i placed with > petco.com (something i've done often) recently eneded up in the spam > folder. > > wtf? > > anyway, if you use gmail, i encourage you to check the Spam folder > regularly for false positives. ?(something i used to do, then didn't, > but now will do again) > > david > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From duane.obrien at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 17:02:56 2010 From: duane.obrien at gmail.com (Duane O'Brien) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 17:02:56 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] gmail spam: significant increase in false positives In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c1001081650u5afed2a9ne45ba33db5cbe719@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c1001081647l3e2b5f7aieaa526613d90aabb@mail.gmail.com> <4c714a9c1001081650u5afed2a9ne45ba33db5cbe719@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks to David and a trip through my spam folder, I'm now insecure about the size of my wedding tackle, and overcome with the powerful desire to buy a designer watch at incredibly low prices. So, thanks for that I guess. But I couldn't find a false positive in the last 12 hours. I get about one a minute tho, so I couldn't bear to go back too far. On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 4:50 PM, David Alban wrote: > shit. ?as i go through the Spam folder more and more, the increase is *serious*. > > /me grumbles and says many bad words > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 4:47 PM, David Alban wrote: >> in the past few days i've just noticed a *significant* increase in >> false positives in gmail spam filtering. ?messages from senders or >> lists that never tripped the built-in filter functionality now often >> seem to trip them. > > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Ideas are good things to have even if they are old. From greg at blekko.com Fri Jan 8 17:04:05 2010 From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 17:04:05 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] gmail spam: significant increase in false positives In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c1001081650u5afed2a9ne45ba33db5cbe719@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c714a9c1001081647l3e2b5f7aieaa526613d90aabb@mail.gmail.com> <4c714a9c1001081650u5afed2a9ne45ba33db5cbe719@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100109010405.GB7032@bx9.net> I've noticed that my gmail accounts with little spam (such as one I use to send a subset of my incoming email to my phone) occasionally have these bursts of "spam" detected, all of which isn't spam. I check for it once per week and add filters... -- greg From matt at lanier.org Tue Jan 12 13:29:07 2010 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:29:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Six Apart is hiring an infrastructure engineer Message-ID: hey folks- Six Apart, premier perl shop, is hiring an infrastructure engineer. if you're interested in more details, let me know and i'll hook you up. thanks- m@ -- Matthew D. P. K. Lanier From fred at redhotpenguin.com Thu Jan 14 11:10:35 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:10:35 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] blogs.perl.org Message-ID: Does anyone here have a blog on blogs.perl.org? I've been blogging on use.perl.org for several years, but am thinking of switching. Looks like an easier to use setup. From fred at redhotpenguin.com Thu Jan 14 11:28:01 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:28:01 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now Message-ID: The Padre Perl IDE has a dmg installer package for OS X now apparently. http://padre.perlide.org/ Just installed it, everything went fine. Didn't see anything earth shaking with my first few lines in it, but would be interested in hearing others' experiences with it. Right now I'm using both vim and emacs with autocomplete, tidy, syntax checking, integrated debugger, etc. From tkeefer at ebay.com Thu Jan 14 11:44:18 2010 From: tkeefer at ebay.com (Tim Keefer) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:44:18 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, After downloading and installing the latest, it errors on startup for me... Process: padre [64022] Path: /Applications/Padre.app/Contents/MacOS/padre Identifier: org.perlide.padre.Padre Version: ??? (???) Code Type: X86-64 (Native) Parent Process: launchd [147] Interval Since Last Report: 37 sec Crashes Since Last Report: 1 Per-App Interval Since Last Report: 0 sec Per-App Crashes Since Last Report: 1 Date/Time: 2010-01-14 11:40:43.183 -0800 OS Version: Mac OS X 10.5.8 (9L31a) Report Version: 6 Exception Type: EXC_BREAKPOINT (SIGTRAP) Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000002, 0x0000000000000000 Crashed Thread: 0 Dyld Error Message: unknown required load command 0x80000022 -Tim On 1/14/10 11:28 AM, "Fred Moyer" wrote: > The Padre Perl IDE has a dmg installer package for OS X now apparently. > > http://padre.perlide.org/ > > Just installed it, everything went fine. Didn't see anything earth > shaking with my first few lines in it, but would be interested in > hearing others' experiences with it. > > Right now I'm using both vim and emacs with autocomplete, tidy, syntax > checking, integrated debugger, etc. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Thu Jan 14 13:02:26 2010 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:02:26 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201001142102.o0EL2QUW032912@kzsu.stanford.edu> Fred Moyer wrote: > The Padre Perl IDE has a dmg installer package for OS X now apparently. > > http://padre.perlide.org/ > > Just installed it, everything went fine. Didn't see anything earth > shaking with my first few lines in it, but would be interested in > hearing others' experiences with it. Same here, on both counts. I think it's impressive how far they got that project to advance in a year and a half, but didn't see any reason I'd want to switch to it from emacs. One thing that's interesting about that project, though, is they tend to break out their sub-systems as perl modules, so in theory other editors and ides can take advantage of what they're doing. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Thu Jan 14 13:29:24 2010 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:29:24 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] blogs.perl.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201001142129.o0ELTO5W033417@kzsu.stanford.edu> Fred Moyer wrote: > Does anyone here have a blog on blogs.perl.org? I've been blogging on > use.perl.org for several years, but am thinking of switching. Looks > like an easier to use setup. blogs.perl.org is supposed to handle graphical content better, right? I've no real experience with writing on either of them, but on the reading side of things, lately I've really liked this aggregator: http://perlsphere.net/ It's been making me think I might want to start using my use.perl.org account. From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Thu Jan 14 15:08:21 2010 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:08:21 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now In-Reply-To: <201001142102.o0EL2QUW032912@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <201001142102.o0EL2QUW032912@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: @#$%!! Between the latest version of CPAN's Wx and Padre itself, something is only compiling for x86_64, which means that people like me who run Snow Leopard on a 32-bit Mac can't run it at all. So I can't run either the Padre.app from the .dmg file or wxPerl anymore. Bleh. I'm going to have to pull my old wxPerl from my backup disk when I get home, but alas, Padre is out of my reach. :-( I've been looking for a Mac perl-specific refactoring editor for years now, too. -- Mike ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joe Brenner wrote: > > Fred Moyer wrote: > >> The Padre Perl IDE has a dmg installer package for OS X now apparently. >> >> http://padre.perlide.org/ >> >> Just installed it, everything went fine. Didn't see anything earth >> shaking with my first few lines in it, but would be interested in >> hearing others' experiences with it. > > Same here, on both counts. I think it's impressive how far they got > that project to advance in a year and a half, but didn't see any reason > I'd want to switch to it from emacs. > > One thing that's interesting about that project, though, is they tend to > break out their sub-systems as perl modules, so in theory other editors > and ides can take advantage of what they're doing. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From parallax99 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 14 16:05:02 2010 From: parallax99 at hotmail.com (Stefan Amshey) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:05:02 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now In-Reply-To: References: , <201001142102.o0EL2QUW032912@kzsu.stanford.edu>, Message-ID: Have you tried Komodo from ActiveState? I've had really good success with it. 21 day trial version is available for download. ~$200 to buy. Very nice for Perl-focused work. /S - Stefan Amshey parallax99 at hotmail.com > From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:08:21 -0800 > To: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org > Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now > > @#$%!! > > Between the latest version of CPAN's Wx and Padre itself, something is only compiling for x86_64, which means that people like me who run Snow Leopard on a 32-bit Mac can't run it at all. > > So I can't run either the Padre.app from the .dmg file or wxPerl anymore. Bleh. > > I'm going to have to pull my old wxPerl from my backup disk when I get home, but alas, Padre is out of my reach. :-( > > I've been looking for a Mac perl-specific refactoring editor for years now, too. > > -- Mike > ______________________________________________________________________________ > Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu > > On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joe Brenner wrote: > > > > > Fred Moyer wrote: > > > >> The Padre Perl IDE has a dmg installer package for OS X now apparently. > >> > >> http://padre.perlide.org/ > >> > >> Just installed it, everything went fine. Didn't see anything earth > >> shaking with my first few lines in it, but would be interested in > >> hearing others' experiences with it. > > > > Same here, on both counts. I think it's impressive how far they got > > that project to advance in a year and a half, but didn't see any reason > > I'd want to switch to it from emacs. > > > > One thing that's interesting about that project, though, is they tend to > > break out their sub-systems as perl modules, so in theory other editors > > and ides can take advantage of what they're doing. > > _______________________________________________ > > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Thu Jan 14 16:29:32 2010 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:29:32 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now In-Reply-To: References: , <201001142102.o0EL2QUW032912@kzsu.stanford.edu>, Message-ID: I tried Komodo very briefly sometime last summer, but I seem to have lost it when I rebuilt my Mac from scratch last fall. I'll have to give it another try. Currently I use TextMate, which is awesome. It has great Perl support, so I'm pretty happy. It also lets you write your own tools, but I'd prefer someone else write the refactoring tools for me. There are plenty of existing modules for TextMate, but refactoring options seem to only be available for Ruby and maybe Python. Thus my dreams of a Perl-spiffy refactoring IDE, a la IDEA for Java. It's my Holy Grail. (And yes, I know I could use emacs. I just prefer to use the mouse occasionally.) -- Mike ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu On Jan 14, 2010, at 4:05 PM, Stefan Amshey wrote: > Have you tried Komodo from ActiveState? I've had really good success with it. > 21 day trial version is available for download. ~$200 to buy. > Very nice for Perl-focused work. > /S > > - Stefan Amshey parallax99 at hotmail.com > > > > > From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu > > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:08:21 -0800 > > To: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org > > Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now > > > > @#$%!! > > > > Between the latest version of CPAN's Wx and Padre itself, something is only compiling for x86_64, which means that people like me who run Snow Leopard on a 32-bit Mac can't run it at all. > > > > So I can't run either the Padre.app from the .dmg file or wxPerl anymore. Bleh. > > > > I'm going to have to pull my old wxPerl from my backup disk when I get home, but alas, Padre is out of my reach. :-( > > > > I've been looking for a Mac perl-specific refactoring editor for years now, too. > > > > -- Mike > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu > > > > On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joe Brenner wrote: > > > > > > > > Fred Moyer wrote: > > > > > >> The Padre Perl IDE has a dmg installer package for OS X now apparently. > > >> > > >> http://padre.perlide.org/ > > >> > > >> Just installed it, everything went fine. Didn't see anything earth > > >> shaking with my first few lines in it, but would be interested in > > >> hearing others' experiences with it. > > > > > > Same here, on both counts. I think it's impressive how far they got > > > that project to advance in a year and a half, but didn't see any reason > > > I'd want to switch to it from emacs. > > > > > > One thing that's interesting about that project, though, is they tend to > > > break out their sub-systems as perl modules, so in theory other editors > > > and ides can take advantage of what they're doing. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > > > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now._______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From mehryar at mehryar.com Thu Jan 14 17:52:39 2010 From: mehryar at mehryar.com (mehryar) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:52:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] creating graphs? Message-ID: There are a bunch of graphing modules out on CPAN - I was wondering what solutions people *like* to use? Maybe even non-Perl solutions? Im mainly looking to graph business data (bars/pie graphs) - not complex mathematical equations. cheers, -Mehryar From merlyn at stonehenge.com Thu Jan 14 18:21:09 2010 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:21:09 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] looking for work Message-ID: <86vdf4az1m.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> I had a great gig for 9 months working for some really cool people, and I just found out I'm in the final month of my involvement of the project. I'm looking for contract work, either project-based, short or long term, preferably telecommute although I'll be onsite as often as my travel costs are paid for. Obviously, Perl work would be the best match, but I can also do net-admin, sysadmin, techwriting, or Smalltalk. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From brian.friday at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 15:42:03 2010 From: brian.friday at gmail.com (Brian Friday) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:42:03 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now In-Reply-To: References: <201001142102.o0EL2QUW032912@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <466FF271-B93D-4ECB-9144-3ADDF1A760AD@gmail.com> I haven't had any trouble with the .dmg of the padre website on either a macbook pro 13' or a iMac (32-bit). The only issue I have had with both machines is sometimes closing padre exits in a way the Mac OS believes is a crash in wxPerl. Compiling Padre on Snow Leopard by hand is a serious pain but I've done that using the documentation available on the padre website. I found compiling padre via CPAN was impossible. My only worry has been the .dmg has version .50 and I haven't seen any instructions on how to recreate the dmg for future releases. - Brian On Jan 14, 2010, at 3:08 PM, Michael Friedman wrote: > @#$%!! > > Between the latest version of CPAN's Wx and Padre itself, something is only compiling for x86_64, which means that people like me who run Snow Leopard on a 32-bit Mac can't run it at all. > > So I can't run either the Padre.app from the .dmg file or wxPerl anymore. Bleh. > > I'm going to have to pull my old wxPerl from my backup disk when I get home, but alas, Padre is out of my reach. :-( > > I've been looking for a Mac perl-specific refactoring editor for years now, too. > > -- Mike > ______________________________________________________________________________ > Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu > From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Thu Jan 14 20:24:24 2010 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:24:24 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now In-Reply-To: <466FF271-B93D-4ECB-9144-3ADDF1A760AD@gmail.com> References: <201001142102.o0EL2QUW032912@kzsu.stanford.edu> <466FF271-B93D-4ECB-9144-3ADDF1A760AD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <930B7FC0-1536-4BD9-A68C-BC08081B14DD@highwire.stanford.edu> Brian, Huh. I have a 15" Macbook Pro (Intel Core Duo, aka 4 years old) running 10.6.2. I tried installing through CPAN and... yeah, that didn't work. I did manage to restore wxPerl from backup tonight, though, so at least everything else is not broken anymore. When I try the app from the .dmg file, I get this lovely error dialog: "You can't open the application Padre.app because it is not supported on this type of Mac." There's nothing in the Console nor any other log file I can find. Maybe I'll try building it from scratch without CPAN this weekend and see if I have any better luck. Thanks for the idea! -- Mike ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu On Jan 14, 2010, at 3:42 PM, Brian Friday wrote: > > I haven't had any trouble with the .dmg of the padre website on either a macbook pro 13' or a iMac (32-bit). The only issue I have had with both machines is sometimes closing padre exits in a way the Mac OS believes is a crash in wxPerl. > > Compiling Padre on Snow Leopard by hand is a serious pain but I've done that using the documentation available on the padre website. I found compiling padre via CPAN was impossible. > > My only worry has been the .dmg has version .50 and I haven't seen any instructions on how to recreate the dmg for future releases. > > - Brian > > > On Jan 14, 2010, at 3:08 PM, Michael Friedman wrote: > >> @#$%!! >> >> Between the latest version of CPAN's Wx and Padre itself, something is only compiling for x86_64, which means that people like me who run Snow Leopard on a 32-bit Mac can't run it at all. >> >> So I can't run either the Padre.app from the .dmg file or wxPerl anymore. Bleh. >> >> I'm going to have to pull my old wxPerl from my backup disk when I get home, but alas, Padre is out of my reach. :-( >> >> I've been looking for a Mac perl-specific refactoring editor for years now, too. >> >> -- Mike >> ______________________________________________________________________________ >> Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From hartzell at alerce.com Thu Jan 14 20:25:55 2010 From: hartzell at alerce.com (George Hartzell) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:25:55 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now In-Reply-To: <466FF271-B93D-4ECB-9144-3ADDF1A760AD@gmail.com> References: <201001142102.o0EL2QUW032912@kzsu.stanford.edu> <466FF271-B93D-4ECB-9144-3ADDF1A760AD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <19279.61011.573018.786805@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Brian Friday writes: > I haven't had any trouble with the .dmg of the padre website on > either a macbook pro 13' or a iMac (32-bit). The only issue I have > had with both machines is sometimes closing padre exits in a way the > Mac OS believes is a crash in wxPerl. > [...] The disk image doesn't seem to work for me on Leopard. Is it Snow Leopard only? g. From mcmahon at ibiblio.org Thu Jan 14 21:35:55 2010 From: mcmahon at ibiblio.org (Joe McMahon) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 21:35:55 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] blogs.perl.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76df99601001142135p21d0e1bk682d0abd52c2fad@mail.gmail.com> Tried twice, and my account is off in limbo. They had some serious capacity problems, which I believe have been fixed, but my account's still hosed. From brian.friday at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 22:01:19 2010 From: brian.friday at gmail.com (Brian Friday) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 22:01:19 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now In-Reply-To: <930B7FC0-1536-4BD9-A68C-BC08081B14DD@highwire.stanford.edu> References: <201001142102.o0EL2QUW032912@kzsu.stanford.edu> <466FF271-B93D-4ECB-9144-3ADDF1A760AD@gmail.com> <930B7FC0-1536-4BD9-A68C-BC08081B14DD@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: Mike, When I hand built padre I built it from the ground up starting with building a new perl in /opt and using that exclusively. So if your going to build it that would be my best recommendation. The padre and wxperl site had / has a good guide on building in snow leopard. I have had a few attempts at using CPAN with the default install of perl on Leopard/Snow Leopard and pretty much I have come to the conclusion that it is not worth the hassle. I have started using local::lib rather successfully in my environments and a added bonus seems to be less issues with software updates (so far). - Brian On Jan 14, 2010, at 8:24 PM, Michael Friedman wrote: > Brian, > > Huh. I have a 15" Macbook Pro (Intel Core Duo, aka 4 years old) running 10.6.2. I tried installing through CPAN and... yeah, that didn't work. I did manage to restore wxPerl from backup tonight, though, so at least everything else is not broken anymore. > > When I try the app from the .dmg file, I get this lovely error dialog: "You can't open the application Padre.app because it is not supported on this type of Mac." There's nothing in the Console nor any other log file I can find. > > Maybe I'll try building it from scratch without CPAN this weekend and see if I have any better luck. Thanks for the idea! > > -- Mike > ______________________________________________________________________________ > Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu From brian.friday at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 22:02:19 2010 From: brian.friday at gmail.com (Brian Friday) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 22:02:19 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Padre Perl IDE .dmg available for Macs now In-Reply-To: <19279.61011.573018.786805@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <201001142102.o0EL2QUW032912@kzsu.stanford.edu> <466FF271-B93D-4ECB-9144-3ADDF1A760AD@gmail.com> <19279.61011.573018.786805@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Jan 14, 2010, at 8:25 PM, George Hartzell wrote: > Brian Friday writes: >> I haven't had any trouble with the .dmg of the padre website on >> either a macbook pro 13' or a iMac (32-bit). The only issue I have >> had with both machines is sometimes closing padre exits in a way the >> Mac OS believes is a crash in wxPerl. >> [...] > > The disk image doesn't seem to work for me on Leopard. Is it Snow > Leopard only? I do not believe so George but I have not actually tried it on a Leopard system. - Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrimes at cpan.org Fri Jan 15 06:48:13 2010 From: mgrimes at cpan.org (Mark Grimes) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:48:13 -0500 Subject: [sf-perl] creating graphs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7c99e1971001150648y679f1558i2653dc04bd6bfe31@mail.gmail.com> If you want interactive charts, I like Chart::OFC (Open Flash Chart). While I'd rather not use flash, I love being able to hover the mouse over a line and see the values. There is a version 2 of OFC that is a bit more configurable and takes it's data as json. The cpan module (Chart::OFC2, I think) isn't very good, but it is very easy to create the data structures with any of the JSON modules. For static charts, I've heard good things about Chart::Clicker, but I haven't actually used...just played with it a bit. -Mark On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 8:52 PM, mehryar wrote: > > There are a bunch of graphing modules out on CPAN - I was wondering what > solutions people *like* to use? Maybe even non-Perl solutions? > Im mainly looking to graph business data (bars/pie graphs) - not complex > mathematical equations. > > cheers, > -Mehryar > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri Jan 15 08:02:40 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:02:40 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] creating graphs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I used to use GD::Graph, but use http://amcharts.com now (Perl generates the dataset). On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:52 PM, mehryar wrote: > > There are a bunch of graphing modules out on CPAN - I was wondering what > solutions people *like* to use? Maybe even non-Perl solutions? > Im mainly looking to graph business data (bars/pie graphs) - not complex > mathematical equations. > > cheers, > -Mehryar > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From mehryar at mehryar.com Fri Jan 15 10:18:02 2010 From: mehryar at mehryar.com (mehryar) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:18:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] creating graphs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Fred and Mark for your replies. I wasn't aware of these Flash charts but I think I will use one of these now. cheers, -Mehryar On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Fred Moyer wrote: > I used to use GD::Graph, but use http://amcharts.com now (Perl > generates the dataset). > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:52 PM, mehryar wrote: >> >> There are a bunch of graphing modules out on CPAN - I was wondering what >> solutions people *like* to use? Maybe even non-Perl solutions? >> Im mainly looking to graph business data (bars/pie graphs) - not complex >> mathematical equations. >> >> cheers, >> -Mehryar >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From pablo at pablo.com.mx Fri Jan 15 10:59:44 2010 From: pablo at pablo.com.mx (Pablo Fischer) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:59:44 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] creating graphs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <771f697e1001151059p71909a8dh8af166b875c78148@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Yesterday I was looking for something similar and also the YUI-Chart support is pretty nice, however it depends on JS so I believe you need to see the graphs in some sort of (x)HTML. http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/charts/index.html On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:18 AM, mehryar wrote: > > Thanks Fred and Mark for your replies. I wasn't aware of these Flash charts > but I think I will use one of these now. > > cheers, > -Mehryar > > > On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Fred Moyer wrote: > >> I used to use GD::Graph, but use http://amcharts.com now (Perl >> generates the dataset). >> >> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:52 PM, mehryar wrote: >>> >>> There are a bunch of graphing modules out on CPAN - I was wondering what >>> solutions people *like* to use? Maybe even non-Perl solutions? >>> Im mainly looking to graph business data (bars/pie graphs) - not complex >>> mathematical equations. >>> >>> cheers, >>> -Mehryar >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > -- Pablo Fischer (pablo [arroba/at] pablo.com.mx) From eruby at knowledgematters.net Fri Jan 15 12:26:18 2010 From: eruby at knowledgematters.net (Earl Ruby) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:26:18 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] creating graphs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I needed some gauges for a dashboard project, and I ended up using code from here: http://www.maani.us/gauge/index.php?menu=Gallery The same guy also produces code for doing charts: http://www.maani.us/xml_charts/index.php All graphs use XML for input, so your Perl code just has to generate the XML to drive the graphs. -- Earl Ruby http://earlruby.org/ From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri Jan 15 19:55:44 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:55:44 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] blogs.perl.org In-Reply-To: <76df99601001142135p21d0e1bk682d0abd52c2fad@mail.gmail.com> References: <76df99601001142135p21d0e1bk682d0abd52c2fad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Joe McMahon wrote: > Tried twice, and my account is off in limbo. They had some serious > capacity problems, which I believe have been fixed, but my account's > still hosed. I found the complaint department: http://github.com/davorg/blogs.perl.org/issues I'm not sure why it is on github though, I thought they were using Movable Type. From rjray at blackperl.com Tue Jan 19 13:37:05 2010 From: rjray at blackperl.com (Randy J. Ray) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 13:37:05 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Weird IPC/Apache problem Message-ID: <4B562601.5090609@blackperl.com> (I've posted this to Stackoverflow.com and one other PM list, so apologies if anyone happens to see this twice) I have a module that uses IPC::Open3 (or IPC::Open2, both exhibit this problem) to call an external binary (bogofilter in this case) and feed it some input via the child-input filehandle, then reads the result from the child-output handle. The code works fine when run in most environments. However, the main use of this module is in a web service that runs under Apache 2.2.6. And under that environment, I get the error: Cannot fdopen STDOUT: Invalid argument This only happens when the code runs under Apache. Previously, the code constructed a horribly complex command, which included a here-document for the input, and ran it with back-ticks. THAT worked, but was very slow and prone to breaking in unique and perplexing ways. I would hate to have to revert to the old version, but I cannot crack this. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm using the list-form when I call open3 ("open3($chld_in, $chld_out, $chld_err, @command_and_args)") rather than a string, so as to avoid the extra bash process. Randy -- """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Randy J. Ray Sunnyvale, CA http://www.rjray.org rjray at blackperl.com Silicon Valley Scale Modelers: http://www.svsm.org From swartz at pobox.com Tue Jan 19 16:29:46 2010 From: swartz at pobox.com (Jonathan Swartz) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 19:29:46 -0500 Subject: [sf-perl] Weird IPC/Apache problem In-Reply-To: <4B562601.5090609@blackperl.com> References: <4B562601.5090609@blackperl.com> Message-ID: <9B8C0690-7DDA-4C34-9334-95B768412E84@pobox.com> Could it be because mod_perl 2 closes STDOUT? I just discovered this and posted about it: http://marc.info/?l=apache-modperl&m=126296015910250&w=2 I think it's a nasty bug, but no one seems to care about it thus far. Post a follow up on the mod_perl list if your problem is related. Jon On Jan 19, 2010, at 4:37 PM, Randy J. Ray wrote: > (I've posted this to Stackoverflow.com and one other PM list, so > apologies if > anyone happens to see this twice) > > I have a module that uses IPC::Open3 (or IPC::Open2, both exhibit > this problem) > to call an external binary (bogofilter in this case) and feed it > some input via > the child-input filehandle, then reads the result from the child- > output handle. > The code works fine when run in most environments. However, the main > use of > this module is in a web service that runs under Apache 2.2.6. And > under that > environment, I get the error: > > Cannot fdopen STDOUT: Invalid argument > > This only happens when the code runs under Apache. Previously, the > code > constructed a horribly complex command, which included a here- > document for the > input, and ran it with back-ticks. THAT worked, but was very slow > and prone to > breaking in unique and perplexing ways. I would hate to have to > revert to the > old version, but I cannot crack this. > > I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm using the list-form > when I call > open3 ("open3($chld_in, $chld_out, $chld_err, @command_and_args)") > rather than > a string, so as to avoid the extra bash process. > > Randy > -- > """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > Randy J. Ray Sunnyvale, CA http://www.rjray.org rjray at blackperl.com > > Silicon Valley Scale Modelers: http://www.svsm.org > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From rjray at blackperl.com Tue Jan 19 16:57:53 2010 From: rjray at blackperl.com (Randy J. Ray) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:57:53 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Weird IPC/Apache problem In-Reply-To: <9B8C0690-7DDA-4C34-9334-95B768412E84@pobox.com> References: <4B562601.5090609@blackperl.com> <9B8C0690-7DDA-4C34-9334-95B768412E84@pobox.com> Message-ID: <4B565511.8090906@blackperl.com> Jonathan Swartz wrote: > Could it be because mod_perl 2 closes STDOUT? I just discovered this and > posted about it: After trying some different combos of keywords in Google, I found that it's a known thing that IPC::Open[23] don't work under Apache/mod_perl. I adapted the code to use IPC::Run (which alas added itself and one other CPAN module to our list of dependencies), and it is now working. I imagine that you are right about the cause, but the people behind the MP2 API would have to judge as to whether that's a bug or a feature. Randy -- """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Randy J. Ray Sunnyvale, CA http://www.rjray.org rjray at blackperl.com Silicon Valley Scale Modelers: http://www.svsm.org From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue Jan 19 17:07:38 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:07:38 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Weird IPC/Apache problem In-Reply-To: <9B8C0690-7DDA-4C34-9334-95B768412E84@pobox.com> References: <4B562601.5090609@blackperl.com> <9B8C0690-7DDA-4C34-9334-95B768412E84@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, January 19, 2010, Jonathan Swartz wrote: > Could it be because mod_perl 2 closes STDOUT? I just discovered this and posted about it: > > ? ?http://marc.info/?l=apache-modperl&m=126296015910250&w=2 > > I think it's a nasty bug, but no one seems to care about it thus far. Post a follow up on the mod_perl list if your problem is related. I remember seeing your post but I didn't fully understand your problem. Maybe the reason no one cares about it is that it isn't affecting them. IIRC, modperl ties stdout to $r, so that the output is delivered to the web client. There are some apr perlspace libraries that you can safely call executables from (don't have the api handy), but I'm not surprised that using ipc based libraries within the context of an https child may present some issues. I'd suggest either finding the apr libs that were made for this or wrapping your binary headers with XS. > > Jon > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 4:37 PM, Randy J. Ray wrote: > > > (I've posted this to Stackoverflow.com and one other PM list, so apologies if > anyone happens to see this twice) > > I have a module that uses IPC::Open3 (or IPC::Open2, both exhibit this problem) > to call an external binary (bogofilter in this case) and feed it some input via > the child-input filehandle, then reads the result from the child-output handle. > The code works fine when run in most environments. However, the main use of > this module is in a web service that runs under Apache 2.2.6. And under that > environment, I get the error: > > Cannot fdopen STDOUT: Invalid argument > > This only happens when the code runs under Apache. Previously, the code > constructed a horribly complex command, which included a here-document for the > input, and ran it with back-ticks. THAT worked, but was very slow and prone to > breaking in unique and perplexing ways. I would hate to have to revert to the > old version, but I cannot crack this. > > I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm using the list-form when I call > open3 ("open3($chld_in, $chld_out, $chld_err, @command_and_args)") rather than > a string, so as to avoid the extra bash process. > > Randy > -- > """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > Randy J. Ray ? ? ?Sunnyvale, CA ? ? ?http://www.rjray.org ? rjray at blackperl.com > > Silicon Valley Scale Modelers: http://www.svsm.org > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From swartz at pobox.com Tue Jan 19 20:19:14 2010 From: swartz at pobox.com (Jonathan Swartz) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:19:14 -0500 Subject: [sf-perl] Weird IPC/Apache problem In-Reply-To: References: <4B562601.5090609@blackperl.com> <9B8C0690-7DDA-4C34-9334-95B768412E84@pobox.com> Message-ID: > On Tuesday, January 19, 2010, Jonathan Swartz > wrote: >> Could it be because mod_perl 2 closes STDOUT? I just discovered >> this and posted about it: >> >> http://marc.info/?l=apache-modperl&m=126296015910250&w=2 >> >> I think it's a nasty bug, but no one seems to care about it thus >> far. Post a follow up on the mod_perl list if your problem is >> related. > > I remember seeing your post but I didn't fully understand your > problem. Maybe the reason no one cares about it is that it isn't > affecting them. > > IIRC, modperl ties stdout to $r, so that the output is delivered to > the web client. Yah, it's a complicated situation - it took me a few days to understand it, and I had to learn things about file descriptors that I had previously only vaguely understood. (My understanding is still vague, just a little less so.) It is unrelated mod_perl's tying stdout to $r. I'll have to write up a better explanation. But suffice to say, under mod_perl 2, if I do this: my $dbh = DBI->connect( "DBI:mysql:$database", $user, $pass, { RaiseError => 1 } ); and then later do this: system('echo "hello"'); then the next use of $dbh will fail. Give it a try! :) Now you might say "well don't use system() from mod_perl", but realistically code such as CPAN modules may do so without your knowledge, so it qualifies in my book as a nasty programmer trap. Jon From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Jan 20 12:50:45 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:50:45 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Reminder: Writing CPAN Modules is in one week. In-Reply-To: <1758390565.1263939195998.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com> References: <1758390565.1263939195998.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com> Message-ID: Just a quick reminder, our first meeting of 2010 is next Tuesday at Six Apart. Hope to see you there! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Meetup Reminder Date: Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:13 PM Subject: Reminder: Writing CPAN Modules is in one week. To: fred at redhotpenguin.com [image: Meetup] Meetup Reminder San Francisco Perl Mongers Your group has a Meetup Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:00 PM! You RSVPed Yes. What Writing CPAN Modules When Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:00 PM Who 21 Yes / 5 Maybe Where Six Apart World Headquarters 548 4th Street San Francisco CA 94107 Update your RSVP 21 Perl MongersRSVPed Yes, including? *see all * Meetup Description Happy New Year! Our January meeting will take place on Tuesday January 26 at Six Apart World Headquarters. "Writing CPAN Modules" by Joseph Brenner A talk in three parts: (1) how-to for beginners (2) portability problems (3) ExtUtils::MakeMaker vs. Module::Build vs. Module::Install In the first part, we will emphasize how easy it is, in the second part, we will demonstrate that we were lying in the first part, and in the third part we will endeavor to provoke a religous war in the audience. Joe Brenner's CPAN page: http://search.cpan.org/~doom/ Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce Add *info at meetup.com* to your address book to receive all your Meetup emails. You are receiving this email because you are a member of San Francisco Perl Mongers. To manage your email settings, click here . Questions? You can email Meetup Support at: support at meetup.com Meetup Inc. PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From biztos at mac.com Mon Jan 25 12:22:04 2010 From: biztos at mac.com (Kevin Frost) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:22:04 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Off-Topic: Office space sublet available in downtown SF. Message-ID: <44822967035518787049628237593291231014-Webmail@me.com> Greetings. A friend of mine has some office space to let in his downtown SF digs. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/off/1562652178.html Short version: two 2-room spaces for 650/mo and 1000/mo, sublease through next March, 2nd & Mission. Evan, the guy renting the space, is very cool and a good guy to drink with. He runs a tiny little web site and CMS and so on company. The location is utterly fly. If I were still in San Francisco, I'd start a startup just so I could rent this space from stealth to A-round. cheers -- frosty PS, sorry if this is too off-topic, but it's the kind of thing I would've wanted to hear about when I was there, so... From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Jan 25 12:50:13 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:50:13 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder - "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night Message-ID: Just a quick reminder, "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night. Please take a moment to RSVP if you plan to attend. Thanks! http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/ From herbr at pfinders.com Mon Jan 25 13:11:36 2010 From: herbr at pfinders.com (Herb Rubin) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:11:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder - "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <27558746.701264453896594.JavaMail.root@z01.pfinders.com> Mike, This might interest you: http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/ Herb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Moyer" To: "San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group" Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 12:50:13 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder - "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night Just a quick reminder, "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night. Please take a moment to RSVP if you plan to attend. Thanks! http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/ _______________________________________________ SanFrancisco-pm mailing list SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm -- Herb Rubin Pathfinders Software http://www.pfinders.com From matt at lanier.org Mon Jan 25 13:16:17 2010 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:16:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder - "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night In-Reply-To: <27558746.701264453896594.JavaMail.root@z01.pfinders.com> References: <27558746.701264453896594.JavaMail.root@z01.pfinders.com> Message-ID: anyone that uses this (unfortunately, mistimed) opportunity to restart the reply-to thread will be forced to listen to me sing bad michael jackson songs for 3 hours while holding his/her breath. 'just warning... ;-) (so yah, please don't). thanks- m@ On Mon, 25 Jan 2010, Herb Rubin wrote: > Mike, > > This might interest you: > > http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/ > > Herb > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Moyer" > To: "San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group" > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 12:50:13 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder - "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night > > Just a quick reminder, "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night. > Please take a moment to RSVP if you plan to attend. Thanks! > > http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/ > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > From blum.stephen at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 15:13:43 2010 From: blum.stephen at gmail.com (Stephen Blum) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:13:43 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] 2 minute hijack to test new technology Message-ID: I'm presenting at CBS in February a new tool that enables auto browser refresh on file save/update. May I borrow the meeting and you all (Jan 26th) early for 2 minutes to test a new technology with many device connections? Testing with many devices will better prepare me. Here is the website: http://nodejuice.com Here is a video: http://vimeo.com/8459839 Here is source: http://github.com/stephenlb/nodejuice The goal will be for all you at the Perl Meetup (on Tuesday Jan. 26) to visit a website on your Phone and Laptop (that's it!). I'll use the tool and see if everyone is receiving a connection. Cool things may happen! Best, Stephen Blum On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 12:00 PM, wrote: > Send SanFrancisco-pm mailing list submissions to > sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sanfrancisco-pm-request at pm.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sanfrancisco-pm-owner at pm.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of SanFrancisco-pm digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Fwd: Reminder: Writing CPAN Modules is in one week. (Fred Moyer) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:50:45 -0800 > From: Fred Moyer > Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Reminder: Writing CPAN Modules is in one week. > To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Just a quick reminder, our first meeting of 2010 is next Tuesday at Six > Apart. Hope to see you there! > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Meetup Reminder > Date: Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:13 PM > Subject: Reminder: Writing CPAN Modules is in one week. > To: fred at redhotpenguin.com > > > [image: Meetup] > Meetup Reminder > San Francisco Perl Mongers > Your group has a Meetup Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:00 PM! > You RSVPed Yes. > What > > Writing CPAN Modules< > http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/t/ce1p_grp/?rv=ce1p > > > When > > Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:00 PM > Who > > 21 Yes / 5 Maybe > Where > > Six Apart World Headquarters > 548 4th Street > San Francisco CA 94107 > > Update your RSVP< > http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/t/ce1p_upd/?rv=ce1p > > > > 21 Perl Mongers< > http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/t/ce1p_rt/?rv=ce1p > >RSVPed > Yes, including? > *see > all< > http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/t/ce1p_rt/?rv=ce1p > > > * > Meetup Description > > Happy New Year! Our January meeting will take place on Tuesday > January 26 at Six Apart World Headquarters. > > "Writing CPAN Modules" by Joseph Brenner > > A talk in three parts: > > (1) how-to for beginners > (2) portability problems > (3) ExtUtils::MakeMaker vs. Module::Build vs. Module::Install > > In the first part, we will emphasize how easy it is, in the second part, > we will demonstrate that we were lying in the first part, and in the > third part we will endeavor to provoke a religous war in the audience. > > Joe Brenner's CPAN page: > http://search.cpan.org/~doom/ > > Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce > > Add *info at meetup.com* to your address book to receive all your Meetup > emails. > > You are receiving this email because you are a member of San Francisco Perl > Mongers. > > To manage your email settings, click here< > http://www.meetup.com/account/comm/> > . > > Questions? You can email Meetup Support at: support at meetup.com > Meetup Inc. PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/sanfrancisco-pm/attachments/20100120/d33ae3b7/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > > End of SanFrancisco-pm Digest, Vol 60, Issue 15 > *********************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From josh at agliodbs.com Mon Jan 25 15:49:30 2010 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:49:30 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder - "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night In-Reply-To: References: <27558746.701264453896594.JavaMail.root@z01.pfinders.com> Message-ID: <4B5E2E0A.9090409@agliodbs.com> On 1/25/10 1:16 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote: > > anyone that uses this (unfortunately, mistimed) opportunity to restart > the reply-to thread will be forced to listen to me sing bad michael > jackson songs for 3 hours while holding his/her breath. 'just > warning... ;-) Awwww, c'mon. I can even argue both sides! --Josh From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Jan 25 15:52:53 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:52:53 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder - "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night In-Reply-To: <4B5E2E0A.9090409@agliodbs.com> References: <27558746.701264453896594.JavaMail.root@z01.pfinders.com> <4B5E2E0A.9090409@agliodbs.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: > On 1/25/10 1:16 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote: >> >> anyone that uses this (unfortunately, mistimed) opportunity to restart >> the reply-to thread will be forced to listen to me sing bad michael >> jackson songs for 3 hours while holding his/her breath. ?'just >> warning... ;-) > > Awwww, c'mon. ?I can even argue both sides! You asked for it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 From the_shift8 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 26 21:23:36 2010 From: the_shift8 at yahoo.com (star morin) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:23:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder - "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night In-Reply-To: References: <27558746.701264453896594.JavaMail.root@z01.pfinders.com> <4B5E2E0A.9090409@agliodbs.com> Message-ID: <207408.31341.qm@web56408.mail.re3.yahoo.com> indeed! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1YABGdai5k ----- Original Message ---- From: Fred Moyer To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group Sent: Mon, January 25, 2010 3:52:53 PM Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Reminder - "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: > On 1/25/10 1:16 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote: >> >> anyone that uses this (unfortunately, mistimed) opportunity to restart >> the reply-to thread will be forced to listen to me sing bad michael >> jackson songs for 3 hours while holding his/her breath. 'just >> warning... ;-) > > Awwww, c'mon. I can even argue both sides! You asked for it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 _______________________________________________ SanFrancisco-pm mailing list SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jan 27 00:28:59 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 00:28:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder - "Writing CPAN Modules" is tomorrow night In-Reply-To: <207408.31341.qm@web56408.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <27558746.701264453896594.JavaMail.root@z01.pfinders.com> <4B5E2E0A.9090409@agliodbs.com> <207408.31341.qm@web56408.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100127082859.GL22497@linuxmafia.com> Quoting star morin (the_shift8 at yahoo.com): > indeed! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1YABGdai5k But don't search YouTube for 'munging'. Really. I won't be responsible for what you find. -- Rick Moen "References to online retailer Amazon.com should always rick at linuxmafia.com include '.com' even though they actually make money." -- FakeAPStylebook From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Jan 27 14:02:58 2010 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:02:58 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Great meeting last night! Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who made it out last night for 'Writing CPAN Modules' - http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/ Joe will be posting his slides to the list soonish, a big thanks to him for a great talk. The biggest question seemed to be which module is best for starting new distributions, and the consensus seemed to be Module::Build. Look forward to trying it out myself now that prefix is available. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Wed Jan 27 17:55:58 2010 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:55:58 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Great meeting last night! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201001280156.o0S1twRK021028@kzsu.stanford.edu> Fred Moyer wrote: > Thanks to everyone who made it out last night for > 'Writing CPAN Modules' - http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/ > > Joe will be posting his slides to the list soonish, a big thanks to > him for a great talk. Well, thanks. The notes are up over here: http://obsidianrook.com/devnotes/talks/writing_cpan_modules/ From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Wed Jan 27 18:52:15 2010 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:52:15 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Great meeting last night! In-Reply-To: <201001280156.o0S1twRK021028@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <201001280156.o0S1twRK021028@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <201001280252.o0S2qFGw021834@kzsu.stanford.edu> Joe Brenner wrote: > > Fred Moyer wrote: > > > Thanks to everyone who made it out last night for > > 'Writing CPAN Modules' - http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12218046/ > > > > Joe will be posting his slides to the list soonish, a big thanks to > > him for a great talk. > > Well, thanks. > > The notes are up over here: > > http://obsidianrook.com/devnotes/talks/writing_cpan_modules/ One of the questions was about tracing the dependencies of perl modules. This site let's you do queries about that for a given module: http://deps.cpantesters.org/ From not.com at gmail.com Thu Jan 28 10:28:42 2010 From: not.com at gmail.com (yary) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:28:42 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Great meeting last night! In-Reply-To: <201001280252.o0S2qFGw021834@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <201001280156.o0S1twRK021028@kzsu.stanford.edu> <201001280252.o0S2qFGw021834@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <75cbfa571001281028j6cdd5844q4b752f7c21f93cf7@mail.gmail.com> I had a couple thoughts from Joe's talk, none of which are about the core subject. One was about how seeding rand with a known constant can still give different results with different perls sometimes (seemed to be constant across platforms, and usually across versions, but there was one case of 5.11.3 giving different results). There was a section in Mark Jason Dominus' "Higher-Order Perl" on the problems with getting "rand" repeatable, and on rolling your own. Look in Chapter 4 "Iterators" at http://hop.perl.plover.com/book/ and search for "Random Number Generation". As for writing tests that touch a database- here's a sane way giving people the option to run. Have the tests get a database connection string & user, password from environment variables, and document them in the README. -y