From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Nov 2 14:09:54 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:09:54 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Fwd: Reminder: "ApacheCon mod_perl and SF.pm Social" is tomorrow, Tuesday, November 3, 2009 7:00 PM! In-Reply-To: <896194560.1257196178991.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com> References: <896194560.1257196178991.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com> Message-ID: FYI - tomorrow evening for those interested. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Meetup Reminder Date: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:09 PM Subject: Reminder: "ApacheCon mod_perl and SF.pm Social" is tomorrow, Tuesday, November 3, 2009 7:00 PM! To: fred at redhotpenguin.com [image: Meetup] Meetup Reminder San Francisco Perl Mongers Your group has a Meetup tomorrow! You RSVPed Yes. What ApacheCon mod_perl and SF.pm Social When Tuesday, November 3, 2009 7:00 PM Who 7 Yes / 1 Maybe Where Luka's Taproom & Lounge 2221 Broadway (between Franklin St & Grand Ave) Oakland CA 94612 Update your RSVP 7 Perl MongersRSVPed Yes, including? *see all * Meetup Description Come join us at a joint mod_perl and SF.pm meeting during ApacheCon 2009 on Tuesday November 3rd at approximately 7pm. The exact time is flexible, I'll be trying to round up mod_perl folks after the hackathon on Tuesday. The suggested venue is Luka's in Oakland, where we can enjoy some appetizers, drinks, shoot some pool, and do some mod_perl hacking. Hope to see you there! I'll bring some of the newest Perl books as giveaways. Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce Add *info at meetup.com* to your address book to receive all your Meetup emails. You are receiving this email because you are a member of San Francisco Perl Mongers. To manage your email settings, click here . Questions? You can email Meetup Support at: support at meetup.com Meetup Inc. PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Nov 4 10:55:47 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:55:47 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Announcing O'Reilly Answers - A useful site that's, well, a different kind of animal In-Reply-To: <1257347106.24804.0.074794@post.oreilly.com> References: <1257347106.24804.0.074794@post.oreilly.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Marsee Henon Date: Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 7:05 AM Subject: Announcing O'Reilly Answers - A useful site that's, well, a different kind of animal To: fred at redhotpenguin.com View this information as HTML in your browser, click here: http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zre8928s85kdv3m7id74r4dpvcuselfnc0cvtj7g Hi, Can you share this announcement with anyone you think will be interested? Thanks! Announcing O'Reilly Answers A useful site that's, well, a different kind of animal We're launching the beta of O'Reilly Answers http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zb2joj5bccoov98pppislovs381p06m2eu0uiitg, and I'm inviting you to be part of it. In brief, O'Reilly Answers is a community site for sharing knowledge, asking questions, and providing answers that brings together our customers, authors, editors, conference speakers, and Foo (Friends of O'Reilly). Why Answers, and why now? O'Reilly is at the center of an amazing exchange of knowledge sharing and idea generation. We've created the usual means of facilitating communication between customers, O'Reilly folks, and the outside experts we call "alpha geeks" who contribute to O'Reilly books, conferences, and websites. We can connect through ?reader reviews, errata submissions, book forums, ?blog comments, Get Satisfaction, our customer service department, and more. But too much of this conversation is siloed, and not enough is public (e.g., discussions on our internal mailing list for editors, or personal responses to customer questions). O'Reilly Answers will be the place where much of that communication happens from this point forward. Why participate? The lofty reason: Like O'Reilly, you want to "change the world by spreading the knowledge of innovators." That's our mission, and we've been fortunate enough to build a community of passionate, committed people who love to learn and share their knowledge as they work towards a better world for us all. The "nice, but what's in it for me" reasons: reputation, recognition, and rewards. Get Recognized: "Find interesting people" is a core activity at O'Reilly, and an important component of our success. We see Answers as an important way to discover and connect with our next authors, online instructors, videographers, and speakers. Build Your Reputation: You've learned a lot, why not get credit for all that knowledge? As your submissions to Answers are voted up, your personal reputation on the site increases. At launch, your reputation will be based solely on your participation in O'Reilly Answers. Soon, we're expanding ?across oreilly.com, so the book errata and book reviews you've submitted, books you've registered, and conferences you've attended, will add reputation points. You'll also earn badges http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zkpgi3tfmsmrgc2gqga7taslj1hmq18c4ke8m41o to mark accomplishments and milestones. Earn Rewards: Glory is great, but discounts and deals are nice, too. We want to reward your contributions to the O'Reilly community. Shortly we'll have a point-based system in place that you can redeem for books, training, courses, and conferences. Details soon, but in the meantime, any actions you take now will count towards your total points. This is just v.1: The best part of any project on the web is watching it take on a life of its own. With that in mind, we're looking forward to *your* suggestions about where O'Reilly Answers should go, what features should be added, and what benefits and rewards we can offer all of you. I'd like to acknowledge the projects that have proceeded Answers and inspired us, such as SitePoint Forums (we distribute their books), StackOverflow, Yahoo! Answers, Knol, and many others. They're great resources, and we think the O'Reilly community can create a useful site that's, well, a different kind of animal. One last thing: O'Reilly Answers is in beta and you may encounter bugs. We're still working on many improvements to the site, such as feeds for each tag, but would love to hear your suggestions for features and improvements. Please send any suggestions/questions/bug reports to answers at oreilly.com. Forward this announcement - http://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1zelt97ap6084s33agot1tb8o3f7irsded99ppqi8 ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA ? 95472 800-998-9938 http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zvheme9nnlhm28ftu0cohdiq2le0o74dqsoa5460 Follow us on Twitter at: http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z60sdk1s8r4nb7h1bui8aebpbr69lkq5rmmjhaso You are receiving this email because you are a User Group contact with O'Reilly Media. If you would like to stop receiving these newsletters or announcements from O'Reilly, send an email to marsee at oreilly.com ================================================================ From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Nov 4 18:57:42 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:57:42 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Apologies for missing the social last night Message-ID: All, I need to extend my apology for missing the mod_perl / SF.pm social last night at Luka's. You would figure that I would show up, seeing as how I scheduled it :) Had some urgent operational issues come up that I had to attend to. I gave Quinn a call and he said that he was going to head over and would rally anyone who showed up. From quinn at fairpath.com Wed Nov 4 19:36:40 2009 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 19:36:40 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Apologies for missing the social last night In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6ebbd8770911041936s38cdb2ectef2b60c49c4e60db@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > All, > > I need to extend my apology for missing the mod_perl / SF.pm social > last night at Luka's. You would figure that I would show up, seeing > as how I scheduled it :) > > Had some urgent operational issues come up that I had to attend to. I > gave Quinn a call and he said that he was going to head over and would > rally anyone who showed up. Actually, Julian Cash and Paul Makepeace made it there before I did, so I think you were covered even before you called. Anyway, it was an enjoyable meeting. I hope your operational issues were resolved without too much hair-tearing. -- Quinn Weaver Consulting, LLC Full-stack web design and development http://quinnweaver.com/ 510-520-5217 From quinn at pgexperts.com Wed Nov 4 22:32:51 2009 From: quinn at pgexperts.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 22:32:51 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] How to make Module::Install follow dependencies, with caveats Message-ID: <053F4BC8-C0A8-4623-AAD6-BFDAAB78E4AB@pgexperts.com> Oh, that magic environment setting I mentioned at the meeting is PERL_MM_USE_DEFAULT. Thanks to David Wheeler for hipping me to this. Background: Some Perl modules don't respect the cpan shell's preqrequisites_policy or build_requires_install_policy. Instead, they always prompt you about following dependencies. This is a real pain if you want to install a bunch of modules at once. It seems this behavior exists in modules that use Module::Install to build and install themselves, but not in modules that use Extutils::MakeMaker or Module::Build. (The latter two may prompt you for other things, though.) Anyway, if you set PERL_MM_USE_DEFAULT=1, then cpan will assume the default. For Module::Install?based modules, the default is y ("yes, follow dependencies"). This fixes the dependency nags. But... Be warned you'll also get the default answer to *any* question a module asks (as long as it asks the question using ExtUtils::MakeMaker::prompt ()). This might not be what you wanted. I decided it was worth it on my development system; YMMV. -- Quinn Weaver PostgreSQL Experts, Inc. http://pgexperts.com/ 1-888-743-9778 (my extension: 510) From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Nov 11 12:03:09 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:03:09 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] November meeting, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa and Plack Message-ID: Tatsuhiko Miyagawa will be presenting a talk on Plack on November 24th, 7pm at Six Apart World Headquarters. Plack is a set of PSGI reference server implementations and helper utilities for Web application frameworks, exactly like Ruby's Rack. It supports Standalone, CGI, FCGI, Apache, AnyEvent, Coro, Danga::Socket and many other server environments. This will be the last talk of the year for SF.pm, we will be having a social in December instead of a speaker. Please RSVP at Meetup: http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/11852211/ Follow Tatsuhiko Miyagawa on: Twitter - @miyagawa Blog - http://bulknews.typepad.com/ CPAN - http://search.cpan.org/dist/Plack Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce From rdm at cfcl.com Wed Nov 11 13:09:45 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:09:45 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] November meeting, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa and Plack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:03 PM -0800 11/11/09, Fred Moyer wrote: > Tatsuhiko Miyagawa will be presenting a talk on Plack on November > 24th, 7pm at Six Apart World Headquarters. > > Plack is a set of PSGI reference server implementations and helper > utilities for Web application frameworks, exactly like Ruby's Rack. > It supports Standalone, CGI, FCGI, Apache, AnyEvent, Coro, > Danga::Socket and many other server environments. Cool! IIRC, I touted the virtues of Rack at a recent meeting. It will be interesting to see how Plack and Rack compare... -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From josh at agliodbs.com Wed Nov 11 16:52:59 2009 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:52:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] November meeting, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa and Plack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AFB5C6B.3030707@agliodbs.com> On 11/11/09 12:03 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Tatsuhiko Miyagawa will be presenting a talk on Plack on November > 24th, 7pm at Six Apart World Headquarters. Hmmm. You're going to get a pretty low turnout the day before Thanksgiving. I know I can't make it ... --Josh From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Nov 11 17:08:03 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:08:03 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] November meeting, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa and Plack In-Reply-To: <4AFB5C6B.3030707@agliodbs.com> References: <4AFB5C6B.3030707@agliodbs.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: > On 11/11/09 12:03 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: >> Tatsuhiko Miyagawa will be presenting a talk on Plack on November >> 24th, 7pm at Six Apart World Headquarters. > > Hmmm. ?You're going to get a pretty low turnout the day before > Thanksgiving. ?I know I can't make it ... Actually it is two days before Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is the fourth Thursday in November. The talk is on the fourth Tuesday. We've gotten a good first round of RSVPs. I don't know if we will have turky, but most certainly we will have pumpkin pie. Come give thanks for Perl! From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue Nov 17 14:33:59 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:33:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Reminder: Plack - Modern Perl Framework Superglue is in one week. In-Reply-To: <1746479353.1258496018936.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com> References: <1746479353.1258496018936.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com> Message-ID: Reminder - Plack is one week away! http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/11852211/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Meetup Reminder Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 2:13 PM Subject: Reminder: Plack - Modern Perl Framework Superglue is in one week. To: fred at redhotpenguin.com [image: Meetup] Meetup Reminder San Francisco Perl Mongers Your group has a Meetup Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:00 PM! You RSVPed Yes. What Plack - Modern Perl Framework Superglue When Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:00 PM Who 16 Yes / 1 Maybe Where Six Apart World Headquarters 548 4th Street San Francisco CA 94107 Update your RSVP 16 Perl MongersRSVPed Yes, including? *see all * Meetup Description Tatsuhiko Miyagawa will be presenting a talk on Plack on Tuesday, November 24th, 7pm at Six Apart World Headquarters. Plack is a set of PSGI reference server implementations and helper utilities for Web application frameworks, exactly like Ruby's Rack. It supports Standalone, CGI, FCGI, Apache, AnyEvent, Coro, Danga::Socket and many other server environments. This will be the last talk of the year for SF.pm, we will be having a social in December instead of a speaker. Follow Tatsuhiko Miyagawa on: Twitter - @miyagawa Blog - http://bulknews.typepad.com/ CPAN - http://search.cpan.org/dist/Plack Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce Add *info at meetup.com* to your address book to receive all your Meetup emails. You are receiving this email because you are a member of San Francisco Perl Mongers. To manage your email settings, click here . Questions? You can email Meetup Support at: support at meetup.com Meetup Inc. PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From byrne at majordojo.com Tue Nov 17 15:36:23 2009 From: byrne at majordojo.com (Byrne Reese) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:36:23 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] November meeting, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa and Plack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <77BB277E-EDDC-4C0D-A251-9B6021214D77@majordojo.com> Totally bummed to miss this BTW. I am hope Tatsuhiko/Six Apart will be interested in perhaps hosting an unscheduled meetup to discuss Plack. Maybe even a Plack hackathon? Byrne On Nov 11, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Fred Moyer wrote: > Tatsuhiko Miyagawa will be presenting a talk on Plack on November > 24th, 7pm at Six Apart World Headquarters. > > Plack is a set of PSGI reference server implementations and helper > utilities for Web application frameworks, exactly like Ruby's Rack. > It supports Standalone, CGI, FCGI, Apache, AnyEvent, Coro, > Danga::Socket and many other server environments. > > This will be the last talk of the year for SF.pm, we will be having a > social in December instead of a speaker. Please RSVP at Meetup: > > http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/11852211/ > > Follow Tatsuhiko Miyagawa on: > > Twitter - @miyagawa > Blog - http://bulknews.typepad.com/ > CPAN - http://search.cpan.org/dist/Plack > > Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Nov 17 15:41:47 2009 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:41:47 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] November meeting, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa and Plack In-Reply-To: <77BB277E-EDDC-4C0D-A251-9B6021214D77@majordojo.com> References: <77BB277E-EDDC-4C0D-A251-9B6021214D77@majordojo.com> Message-ID: <20091117234147.GU6625@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Byrne Reese (byrne at majordojo.com): > Totally bummed to miss this BTW. I am hope Tatsuhiko/Six Apart will be > interested in perhaps hosting an unscheduled meetup to discuss Plack. > Maybe even a Plack hackathon? They're probably tired of jokes about Plack buildup, though. -- Rick Moen "Names of fictional places are capitalized: rick at linuxmafia.com Narnia, Oz, San Francisco, etc." -- FakeAPStylebook From miyagawa at gmail.com Wed Nov 18 19:21:09 2009 From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:21:09 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] November meeting, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa and Plack In-Reply-To: <77BB277E-EDDC-4C0D-A251-9B6021214D77@majordojo.com> References: <77BB277E-EDDC-4C0D-A251-9B6021214D77@majordojo.com> Message-ID: <693254b90911181921u744cbef8h4249d76a4c24d8c6@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Byrne Reese wrote: > Totally bummed to miss this BTW. I am hope Tatsuhiko/Six Apart will be interested in perhaps hosting an unscheduled meetup to discuss Plack. Maybe even a Plack hackathon? Yeah, sounds like a plan. I'll be out of town to have the first Plack hackathon in Tokyo next weekend around Thanksgiving and then to London to speak at London Perl Workshop. Some time in December we can host another meetup to discuss further about Plack and Hackathon at 6A HQ! -- Tatsuhiko Miyagawa From byrne at majordojo.com Wed Nov 18 20:52:40 2009 From: byrne at majordojo.com (Byrne Reese) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:52:40 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] November meeting, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa and Plack In-Reply-To: <693254b90911181921u744cbef8h4249d76a4c24d8c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <77BB277E-EDDC-4C0D-A251-9B6021214D77@majordojo.com> <693254b90911181921u744cbef8h4249d76a4c24d8c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <465CBAC9-1629-4710-BFCE-E2DD1FFC34EC@majordojo.com> Sweet! My goal is to see if I can't build Plack support into Movable Type and Melody - either through porting MT to CGI::Application or some other framework. Can't wait. On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:21 PM, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa wrote: > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Byrne Reese wrote: >> Totally bummed to miss this BTW. I am hope Tatsuhiko/Six Apart will be interested in perhaps hosting an unscheduled meetup to discuss Plack. Maybe even a Plack hackathon? > > Yeah, sounds like a plan. I'll be out of town to have the first Plack > hackathon in Tokyo next weekend around Thanksgiving and then to London > to speak at London Perl Workshop. Some time in December we can host > another meetup to discuss further about Plack and Hackathon at 6A HQ! > > > -- > Tatsuhiko Miyagawa From miyagawa at gmail.com Wed Nov 18 21:13:40 2009 From: miyagawa at gmail.com (Tatsuhiko Miyagawa) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:13:40 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] November meeting, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa and Plack In-Reply-To: <465CBAC9-1629-4710-BFCE-E2DD1FFC34EC@majordojo.com> References: <77BB277E-EDDC-4C0D-A251-9B6021214D77@majordojo.com> <693254b90911181921u744cbef8h4249d76a4c24d8c6@mail.gmail.com> <465CBAC9-1629-4710-BFCE-E2DD1FFC34EC@majordojo.com> Message-ID: <693254b90911182113g7c787a62m3d8fdfd3c18026c9@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Byrne Reese wrote: > Sweet! > > My goal is to see if I can't build Plack support into Movable Type and Melody - either through porting MT to CGI::Application or some other framework. > > Can't wait. We've got MT sort of working on Plack as a standalone or as FastCGI via lighttpd/nginx, with a quite hacky hack: http://www.catalyzed.org/2009/11/mtplack-on-nginx-love.html http://gist.github.com/227584 > On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:21 PM, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa wrote: > >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Byrne Reese wrote: >>> Totally bummed to miss this BTW. I am hope Tatsuhiko/Six Apart will be interested in perhaps hosting an unscheduled meetup to discuss Plack. Maybe even a Plack hackathon? >> >> Yeah, sounds like a plan. I'll be out of town to have the first Plack >> hackathon in Tokyo next weekend around Thanksgiving and then to London >> to speak at London Perl Workshop. Some time in December we can host >> another meetup to discuss further about Plack and Hackathon at 6A HQ! >> >> >> -- >> Tatsuhiko Miyagawa > > -- Tatsuhiko Miyagawa From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Nov 23 13:19:17 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:19:17 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Reminder: "Plack - Modern Perl Framework Superglue" is tomorrow, Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:00 PM! In-Reply-To: <1811999791.1259010885217.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com> References: <1811999791.1259010885217.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com> Message-ID: Just a quick reminder, our last talk of the year will be tomorrow evening at Six Apart. Looks like it should be a good one! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Meetup Reminder Date: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 1:14 PM Subject: Reminder: "Plack - Modern Perl Framework Superglue" is tomorrow, Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:00 PM! To: fred at redhotpenguin.com [image: Meetup] Meetup Reminder San Francisco Perl Mongers Your group has a Meetup tomorrow! You RSVPed Yes. What Plack - Modern Perl Framework Superglue When Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:00 PM Who 19 Yes / 3 Maybe Where Six Apart World Headquarters 548 4th Street San Francisco CA 94107 Update your RSVP 19 Perl MongersRSVPed Yes, including? *see all * Meetup Description Tatsuhiko Miyagawa will be presenting a talk on Plack on Tuesday, November 24th, 7pm at Six Apart World Headquarters. Plack is a set of PSGI reference server implementations and helper utilities for Web application frameworks, exactly like Ruby's Rack. It supports Standalone, CGI, FCGI, Apache, AnyEvent, Coro, Danga::Socket and many other server environments. This will be the last talk of the year for SF.pm, we will be having a social in December instead of a speaker. Follow Tatsuhiko Miyagawa on: Twitter - @miyagawa Blog - http://bulknews.typepad.com/ CPAN - http://search.cpan.org/dist/Plack Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce Add *info at meetup.com* to your address book to receive all your Meetup emails. You are receiving this email because you are a member of San Francisco Perl Mongers. To manage your email settings, click here . Questions? You can email Meetup Support at: support at meetup.com Meetup Inc. PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue Nov 24 12:50:18 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:50:18 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Final reminder for Plack talk tonight Message-ID: In case anyone is on the fence about attending tonight's talk, here's my nudge to get you off the fence and come to the meeting :) Was thinking of turkey and also veggie sandwiches for tonight, along with pumpkin pie. I think everyone's probably gotten their fill of pizza for the year. http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/11852211/ From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Tue Nov 24 13:40:12 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:40:12 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Final reminder for Plack talk tonight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200911242140.nAOLeCwW003717@kzsu.stanford.edu> Fred Moyer wrote: > Was thinking of turkey and also veggie sandwiches for tonight, along > with pumpkin pie. I think everyone's probably gotten their fill of > pizza for the year. What, no turkey pizza? From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com Tue Nov 24 13:43:30 2009 From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:43:30 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] Final reminder for Plack talk tonight In-Reply-To: <200911242140.nAOLeCwW003717@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <200911242140.nAOLeCwW003717@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Joe Brenner wrote: > > Fred Moyer wrote: > >> Was thinking of turkey and also veggie sandwiches for tonight, along >> with pumpkin pie. ?I think everyone's probably gotten their fill of >> pizza for the year. > > What, no turkey pizza? Turkey once a year is arguably once a year too much. Putting it on pizza seems like a waste of perfectly good pizza... P From rdm at cfcl.com Wed Nov 25 09:45:33 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:45:33 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [ANN] "RDF on Rails", 12/15, UC Berkeley Message-ID: "RDF on Rails", Dean Allemang and Rich Morin The East Bay Ruby Meetup Group http://ruby.meetup.com/81/calendar/11157246/ 12/15, 6:30 pm, Wozniak Lounge, Soda Hall, UCB Presentation Abstract... The Semantic Web has progressed from a vision to a powerful set of standards, technologies, and practices. These can be applied to a variety of application programming problems. In particular, it's high time for web developers to get involved! Dean and Rich will give a gentle introduction to Semantic Web technologies, concentrating on RDF(S) and SPARQL. They will discuss the Semantic Web vision, status, and prospects, then present use cases and ways to use currently available tools with Ruby and Rails. Bio Dean Allemang, Chief Scientist of TopQuadrant, has more than 15 years experience in research, deployment and development of knowledge-based systems. He is the co-author (with Jim Hendler) of "Semantic Web for the Working Ontologist: Effective Modeling in RDFS and OWL". Rich Morin is a seasoned developer and technical writer. He is interested in using Semantic Web technologies to create useful and novel applications. His current project merges ontologies with Google SketchUp modeling and (Ruby) plugin development. -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Nov 25 10:05:50 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:05:50 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Plack slides Message-ID: Big thanks to @miyagawa for a great talk on Plack last night. Here is the link to the slides: http://bit.ly/6wUnCp Also a HUGE thanks to everyone who showed up - this was one of our biggest turnouts! Looking forward to seeing the group picture graciously taken by Julian Cash. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Thu Nov 26 00:23:04 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:23:04 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] oddity with an exported and localized variable Message-ID: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu> David Sharnoff mentioned he'd seen some odd behavior with an exported localized variable. If I understand the problem, the following reproduces it for me (using perl 5.10.0 on ubuntu jaunty). The point here is that the exported sub appears to be seeing the value the variable was assigned in the module, rather than seeing the current value assigned in the script. This isn't the way dynamic scoping is supposed to work, correct? Any ideas what might be going on here? #=== begin script use warnings; use strict; use FindBin qw($Bin); use lib ("$Bin/../lib/"); use Module::MonoPackage::Export qw( $exported_variable check_value_exported_sub ); print "initial value: $exported_variable\n"; # 'initial" local $exported_variable = "new value"; my $expected = 'new value'; print "the new value: $exported_variable\n"; # 'new value' print "check_value_exported_sub sees: \n"; check_value_exported_sub( ); # 'initial' print "check_value_local_def sees: \n"; check_value_local_def( ); # 'new value' sub check_value_local_def { print "exported_variable: $exported_variable\n"; return $exported_variable; } # === end script # === # The module: /home/doom/lib/Module/MonoPackage/Export.pm package Module::MonoPackage::Export; use 5.008; use strict; use warnings; require Exporter; our @ISA = qw(Exporter); our %EXPORT_TAGS = ( 'all' => [ qw( $exported_variable check_value_exported_sub ) ] ); our @EXPORT_OK = ( @{ $EXPORT_TAGS{'all'} } ); our @EXPORT = qw( ); our $VERSION = '0.01'; our $exported_variable = "initial"; sub check_value_exported_sub { print "exported_variable: $exported_variable\n"; return $exported_variable; } 1; # === end module From not.com at gmail.com Thu Nov 26 08:24:18 2009 From: not.com at gmail.com (yary) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:24:18 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] oddity with an exported and localized variable In-Reply-To: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <75cbfa570911260824y7c27f001jaad23cf19169a55b@mail.gmail.com> Running in perl 5.10.1 shows: initial value: initial the new value: new value check_value_exported_sub sees: exported_variable: initial check_value_local_def sees: exported_variable: new value that is, same as what you saw in 5.10.0 Based on the perlsub section "Temporary Values via local()": A "local" modifies its listed variables to be "local" to the enclosing block, "eval", or "do FILE"--*and to any subroutine called from within * *that block*. A "local" just gives temporary values to global (meaning package) variables. It does not create a local variable. This is known as dynamic scoping. ... Emphasis is in the original perldoc. So it looks like a bug to me too. Bring it to the monks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From not.com at gmail.com Thu Nov 26 08:24:18 2009 From: not.com at gmail.com (yary) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:24:18 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] oddity with an exported and localized variable In-Reply-To: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <75cbfa570911260824y7c27f001jaad23cf19169a55b@mail.gmail.com> Running in perl 5.10.1 shows: initial value: initial the new value: new value check_value_exported_sub sees: exported_variable: initial check_value_local_def sees: exported_variable: new value that is, same as what you saw in 5.10.0 Based on the perlsub section "Temporary Values via local()": A "local" modifies its listed variables to be "local" to the enclosing block, "eval", or "do FILE"--*and to any subroutine called from within * *that block*. A "local" just gives temporary values to global (meaning package) variables. It does not create a local variable. This is known as dynamic scoping. ... Emphasis is in the original perldoc. So it looks like a bug to me too. Bring it to the monks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Fri Nov 27 12:19:22 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:19:22 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] oddity with an exported and localized variable In-Reply-To: <75cbfa570911260824y7c27f001jaad23cf19169a55b@mail.gmail.com> References: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu> <75cbfa570911260824y7c27f001jaad23cf19169a55b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200911272019.nARKJMTp062021@kzsu.stanford.edu> yary wrote: > Based on the perlsub section "Temporary Values via local()": > A "local" modifies its listed variables to be "local" to the > enclosing block, "eval", or "do FILE"--*and to any subroutine > called from within *that block*. A "local" just gives > temporary values to global (meaning package) variables. It > does not create a local variable. This is known as dynamic > scoping. ... > Emphasis is in the original perldoc. So it looks like a bug to me too. It seems as though "local" is acting on the symbol table entry rather than on the thing pointed at by the symbol table. I tried finding a way to reproduce this without using Exporter without any luck. If you use local on something manually aliased like so: *Garbagio::Fantastico::Smellier::stuff = *Garbagio::Fantastico::stuff; It effects both sides of it as you would expect. I'm beginning to suspect a bug in some perl optimization for dealing with Exporter code. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Fri Nov 27 12:19:22 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:19:22 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] oddity with an exported and localized variable In-Reply-To: <75cbfa570911260824y7c27f001jaad23cf19169a55b@mail.gmail.com> References: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu> <75cbfa570911260824y7c27f001jaad23cf19169a55b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200911272019.nARKJMTp062021@kzsu.stanford.edu> yary wrote: > Based on the perlsub section "Temporary Values via local()": > A "local" modifies its listed variables to be "local" to the > enclosing block, "eval", or "do FILE"--*and to any subroutine > called from within *that block*. A "local" just gives > temporary values to global (meaning package) variables. It > does not create a local variable. This is known as dynamic > scoping. ... > Emphasis is in the original perldoc. So it looks like a bug to me too. It seems as though "local" is acting on the symbol table entry rather than on the thing pointed at by the symbol table. I tried finding a way to reproduce this without using Exporter without any luck. If you use local on something manually aliased like so: *Garbagio::Fantastico::Smellier::stuff = *Garbagio::Fantastico::stuff; It effects both sides of it as you would expect. I'm beginning to suspect a bug in some perl optimization for dealing with Exporter code. From eruby at knowledgematters.net Mon Nov 30 12:41:12 2009 From: eruby at knowledgematters.net (Earl Ruby) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:41:12 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] oddity with an exported and localized variable In-Reply-To: <75cbfa570911260824y7c27f001jaad23cf19169a55b@mail.gmail.com> References: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu> <75cbfa570911260824y7c27f001jaad23cf19169a55b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2009/11/26 yary : > Based on the perlsub section "Temporary Values via local()": > ?????? A "local" modifies its listed variables to be "local" to the > enclosing > ?????? block, "eval", or "do FILE"--and to any subroutine called from within > ?????? that block.? A "local" just gives temporary values to global (meaning > ?????? package) variables.? It does not create a local variable.? This is > ?????? known as dynamic scoping.? ... > > Emphasis is in the original perldoc. So it looks like a bug to me too. Bring > it to the monks. Maybe I'm missing something here, but for the localized variable, doesn't "the enclosing block and any subroutine called from within that block" include all of the print statements after the local declaration and the check_value_local_def sub? For the "our" variables in the module (http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/our.html): "our associates a simple name with a package variable in the current package for use within the current scope. When use strict 'vars' is in effect, our lets you use declared global variables without qualifying them with package names, within the lexical scope of the our declaration. In this way our differs from use vars , which is package scoped." "Unlike my, which both allocates storage for a variable and associates a simple name with that storage for use within the current scope, our associates a simple name with a package variable in the current package, for use within the current scope. In other words, our has the same scoping rules as my, but does not necessarily create a variable." FWIW, output is the same under Perl 5.8.8 as 5.10.0: initial value: initial the new value: new value check_value_exported_sub sees: exported_variable: initial check_value_local_def sees: exported_variable: new value -- Earl Ruby http://earlruby.org/ "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. " -- Brian Kernighan From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Mon Nov 30 19:56:18 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:56:18 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] oddity with an exported and localized variable In-Reply-To: References: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu> <75cbfa570911260824y7c27f001jaad23cf19169a55b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200912010356.nB13uISd031457@kzsu.stanford.edu> Earl Ruby wrote: > 2009/11/26 yary : > > Based on the perlsub section "Temporary Values via local()": > > A "local" modifies its listed variables to be "local" to the > > enclosing block, "eval", or "do FILE"--and to any subroutine > > called from within that block. A "local" just gives > > temporary values to global (meaning package) variables. It > > does not create a local variable. This is known as dynamic > > scoping. ... > > > > Emphasis is in the original perldoc. So it looks like a bug to me > > too. Bring it to the monks. > Maybe I'm missing something here, but for the localized variable, > doesn't "the enclosing block and any subroutine called from within > that block" include all of the print statements after the local > declaration and the check_value_local_def sub? That sounds right to me. Are you saying that you don't see why we think the behavior is odd? A localized value is supposed to be in effect inside of the subroutines called from inside of that scope. The local is still in effect when we call "check_value_exported_sub", so why isn't it what that sub sees? > FWIW, output is the same under Perl 5.8.8 as 5.10.0: > > initial value: initial > the new value: new value > check_value_exported_sub sees: > exported_variable: initial <-* this is the weird one > check_value_local_def sees: > exported_variable: new value > For the "our" variables in the module > (http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/our.html): > > "our associates a simple name with a package variable in the current > package for use within the current scope. When use strict 'vars' is > in effect, our lets you use declared global variables without > qualifying them with package names, within the lexical scope of the > our declaration. In this way our differs from use vars , which is > package scoped." > > "Unlike my, which both allocates storage for a variable and associates > a simple name with that storage for use within the current scope, our > associates a simple name with a package variable in the current > package, for use within the current scope. In other words, our has the > same scoping rules as my, but does not necessarily create a variable." All of this sounds right too, what point do you think is significant? In the sub, we've got a variable entry in the symbol table, and we're also exporting it to the symbol table of the calling script. We do a local on that one, and it effects the exported one, but not the one back in the original package. Note that if you just do a glob assignment to create the alias yourself, a local on one also effects the other, and yet there appears to be something funny happening when Exporter creates the alias. From j.david.lowe at gmail.com Mon Nov 30 23:54:39 2009 From: j.david.lowe at gmail.com (David Lowe) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:54:39 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] oddity with an exported and localized variable In-Reply-To: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <125a2a000911302354r1725c09as8c68abb844480020@mail.gmail.com> Joe et al. - On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 12:23 AM, Joe Brenner wrote: > The point here is that the exported sub appears to be > seeing the value the variable was assigned in the module, > rather than seeing the current value assigned in the script. > This isn't the way dynamic scoping is supposed to work, > correct? ?Any ideas what might be going on here? This surprising behavior is documented in 'perldoc perlmod': http://perldoc.perl.org/perlmod.html#Symbol-Tables The fix is to change both the export and import lists to '*exported_variable' instead of '$exported_variable'; making these changes causes the example code to behave as expected. The bug, IMO, is that neither the documentation for 'Exporter' nor 'local' mention it. OTOH the documentation for Exporter *does* say (paraphrasing) "DO NOT EXPORT VARIABLES"... and the documentation for 'local' *does* say (paraphrasing) "DO NOT USE LOCAL EXCEPT FOR MAGIC PUNCTUATION VARIABLES"... so there's a bit of poetic justice at work here, too ;) Thanks, David Lowe