From fred at redhotpenguin.com Sat Jan 3 11:23:37 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:23:37 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] January meeting preliminary announcement Message-ID: Happy New Year SF.pm! Our January meeting is scheduled for Tuesday the 27th at Six Apart Headquarters. Speaker details will be forthcoming, but the talk will focus on memcached. We also have a Meetup.Com website; if you are a meetup.com member please join up at http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/ Looking forward to seeing you on the 27th. http://sf.pm.org/weblog/ From matt at lanier.org Sun Jan 4 21:04:05 2009 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:04:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) Message-ID: FYI, not sure if this came up here yet. m@ -- Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier matt at lanier.org http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:05:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/04/1610256 Posted by: Soulskill, on 2009-01-04 16:53:00 [1]On Elpeleg writes "The Perl Foundation has announced they are [2]switching their version control systems to git. According to the announcement, Perl 5 migration to git would allow the language development team to take advantage of git's extensive offline and distributed version support. Git is open source and readily available to all Perl developers. Among other advantages, the announcement notes that git simplifies commits, producing fewer administrative overheads for integrating contributions. Git's change analysis tools are also singled out for praise. The transformation from Perforce to git apparently took over a year. Sam Vilain of Catalyst IT 'spent more than a year building custom tools to transform 21 years of Perl history into the first ever unified repository of every single change to Perl.' The git repository incorporates historic snapshot releases and patch sets, which is frankly both cool and historically pleasing. Some of the patch sets were apparently recovered from old hard drives, notching up the geek satisfaction factor even more. Developers can download a copy of the current [3]Perl 5 repository directly from the perl.org site, where the source is hosted." References 1. mailto:info at web-app.net 2. http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/22/0830205&mode=nocomment 3. http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?perl_git_repositories _______________________________________________ http://www.subethamail.org/se/list/slashnews http://www.subethamail.org/se/archive_msg.jsp?msgId=42991 From biztos at mac.com Sun Jan 4 21:21:02 2009 From: biztos at mac.com (Kevin Frost) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:21:02 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78516782-049A-40BF-A516-A6F622F3BB89@mac.com> I just moved a bunch of my own stuff to Git from Subversion and while I'm very, very far from having any kind of "gitspertise" I must say I like the feel of it more than I expected to, even for solo development. So I, for one, welcome our trash-talking Finnish overlords. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8 Now if we could just get all of CPAN onto it.... Veering now into the seriously off-topic, I should also mention I'm using GitHub and so far I like it. They host OSS projects for free, they're cheap for private stuff, and they back up to Amazon S3. They're not bug-free and they're Ruby people, but nobody's perfect. :-) -- f. On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote: > > FYI, not sure if this came up here yet. > > m@ > > -- > > Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier > matt at lanier.org > http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:05:02 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System > > Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/04/1610256 > Posted by: Soulskill, on 2009-01-04 16:53:00 > > [1]On Elpeleg writes "The Perl Foundation has announced they are > [2]switching their version control systems to git. According to the > announcement, Perl 5 migration to git would allow the language > development team to take advantage of git's extensive offline and > distributed version support. Git is open source and readily > available > to all Perl developers. Among other advantages, the announcement > notes > that git simplifies commits, producing fewer administrative > overheads > for integrating contributions. Git's change analysis tools are also > singled out for praise. The transformation from Perforce to git > apparently took over a year. Sam Vilain of Catalyst IT 'spent more > than a year building custom tools to transform 21 years of Perl > history into the first ever unified repository of every single > change > to Perl.' The git repository incorporates historic snapshot releases > and patch sets, which is frankly both cool and historically > pleasing. > Some of the patch sets were apparently recovered from old hard > drives, > notching up the geek satisfaction factor even more. Developers can > download a copy of the current [3]Perl 5 repository directly from > the > perl.org site, where the source is hosted." > > References > > 1. mailto:info at web-app.net > 2. http://use.perl.org/article.pl? > sid=08/12/22/0830205&mode=nocomment > 3. http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?perl_git_repositories > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.subethamail.org/se/list/slashnews > http://www.subethamail.org/se/archive_msg.jsp?msgId=42991 > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From biztos at mac.com Sun Jan 4 21:24:48 2009 From: biztos at mac.com (Kevin Frost) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:24:48 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: <78516782-049A-40BF-A516-A6F622F3BB89@mac.com> References: <78516782-049A-40BF-A516-A6F622F3BB89@mac.com> Message-ID: PS, looks like GitHub has a mirror of the whole thing. Lordy. I only looked at the top directory and my head is already spinning... http://github.com/blog/276-perl-mirror-on-github Or just jump right in: http://github.com/github/perl/tree/blead -- f. On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:21 PM, Kevin Frost wrote: > I just moved a bunch of my own stuff to Git from Subversion and > while I'm very, very far from having any kind of "gitspertise" I > must say I like the feel of it more than I expected to, even for > solo development. > > So I, for one, welcome our trash-talking Finnish overlords. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8 > > Now if we could just get all of CPAN onto it.... > > Veering now into the seriously off-topic, I should also mention I'm > using GitHub and so far I like it. They host OSS projects for free, > they're cheap for private stuff, and they back up to Amazon S3. > They're not bug-free and they're Ruby people, but nobody's > perfect. :-) > > -- f. > > > On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote: > >> >> FYI, not sure if this came up here yet. >> >> m@ >> >> -- >> >> Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier >> matt at lanier.org >> http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:05:02 -0800 (PST) >> Subject: Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System >> >> Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/04/1610256 >> Posted by: Soulskill, on 2009-01-04 16:53:00 >> >> [1]On Elpeleg writes "The Perl Foundation has announced they are >> [2]switching their version control systems to git. According to the >> announcement, Perl 5 migration to git would allow the language >> development team to take advantage of git's extensive offline and >> distributed version support. Git is open source and readily >> available >> to all Perl developers. Among other advantages, the announcement >> notes >> that git simplifies commits, producing fewer administrative >> overheads >> for integrating contributions. Git's change analysis tools are also >> singled out for praise. The transformation from Perforce to git >> apparently took over a year. Sam Vilain of Catalyst IT 'spent more >> than a year building custom tools to transform 21 years of Perl >> history into the first ever unified repository of every single >> change >> to Perl.' The git repository incorporates historic snapshot releases >> and patch sets, which is frankly both cool and historically >> pleasing. >> Some of the patch sets were apparently recovered from old hard >> drives, >> notching up the geek satisfaction factor even more. Developers can >> download a copy of the current [3]Perl 5 repository directly from >> the >> perl.org site, where the source is hosted." >> >> References >> >> 1. mailto:info at web-app.net >> 2. http://use.perl.org/article.pl? >> sid=08/12/22/0830205&mode=nocomment >> 3. http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?perl_git_repositories >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.subethamail.org/se/list/slashnews >> http://www.subethamail.org/se/archive_msg.jsp?msgId=42991 >> _______________________________________________ >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From rdm at cfcl.com Sun Jan 4 23:15:09 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:15:09 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Git is a fascinating piece of technology about which I have very mixed feelings. It's very powerful, but after months of using it, I still had to be bailed out (regularly) when I had managed to git thing fouled up. Git and GitHub are having an enormous effect on the nature of the open source development process. The notion of the "core" committers, for instance, pretty much disappears. -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Jan 5 06:42:55 2009 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 06:42:55 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: (Rich Morin's message of "Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:15:09 -0800") References: Message-ID: <86sknxlspc.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Rich" == Rich Morin writes: Rich> Git is a fascinating piece of technology about which I have Rich> very mixed feelings. It's very powerful, but after months of Rich> using it, I still had to be bailed out (regularly) when I had Rich> managed to git thing fouled up. The #git channel on freenode has many experts, including the key developers much of the time. Feel free to ask questions as you need. The mailing list is also quite newbie friendly, although a bit of RTFM might be the first round answer. I've been involved with Git since the first month. Turns out my lunch with Linus Torvalds to welcome him to Portland was timely. "what you working on now?" "This thing called git." :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From matt at lanier.org Mon Jan 5 08:38:43 2009 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:38:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jan 2009, Rich Morin wrote: > Git and GitHub are having an enormous effect on the nature of > the open source development process. The notion of the "core" > committers, for instance, pretty much disappears. what is it about this technology that is disruptive to the FOSS development process that has evolved over the last many years? m@ -- Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier matt at lanier.org http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com Mon Jan 5 08:46:27 2009 From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:46:27 +0000 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote: > On Sun, 4 Jan 2009, Rich Morin wrote: > >> Git and GitHub are having an enormous effect on the nature of >> the open source development process. The notion of the "core" >> committers, for instance, pretty much disappears. > > what is it about this technology that is disruptive to the FOSS development > process that has evolved over the last many years? With a centralized SCM you need access control to prevent random entities committing junk. With git/distributed SCM where there is no centralized repo you simply pull changesets from people you trust (and they pull from those they trust etc). Thus the notion and need for a "commit bit" disappears. > > m@ > > -- > > Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier > matt at lanier.org > http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Mon Jan 5 11:15:50 2009 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:15:50 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <527379D4-14DA-4B79-84ED-20BEE64A6012@highwire.stanford.edu> On Jan 5, 2009, at 8:46 AM, Paul Makepeace wrote: > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Matthew Lanier > wrote: >> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009, Rich Morin wrote: >> >>> Git and GitHub are having an enormous effect on the nature of >>> the open source development process. The notion of the "core" >>> committers, for instance, pretty much disappears. >> >> what is it about this technology that is disruptive to the FOSS >> development >> process that has evolved over the last many years? >> >> > With a centralized SCM you need access control to prevent random > entities committing junk. With git/distributed SCM where there is no > centralized repo you simply pull changesets from people you trust (and > they pull from those they trust etc). Thus the notion and need for a > "commit bit" disappears. >> It seems to me that you may not need a "commit bit", but there's still a hierarchy of trust going on. Some *one* person still does the "official" build and they grab commits from a select set of other people, who do the vetting of code from a still larger set. While technically Git uses a different model, from a social perspective it's still the exact same process. You're still going to have one Pumpking. Or so it seems to me... -- Mike ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu From not.com at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 11:38:36 2009 From: not.com at gmail.com (yary) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:38:36 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: <527379D4-14DA-4B79-84ED-20BEE64A6012@highwire.stanford.edu> References: <527379D4-14DA-4B79-84ED-20BEE64A6012@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <75cbfa570901051138m2f88e128o38ef19b76d7bbd78@mail.gmail.com> I'm a subversion fan and have yet to check out git. That said- On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Michael Friedman wrote: > It seems to me that you may not need a "commit bit", but there's still a > hierarchy of trust going on. Some *one* person still does the "official" > build and they grab commits from a select set of other people, who do the > vetting of code from a still larger set. While technically Git uses a > different model, from a social perspective it's still the exact same > process. I think the difference is with git, the "branches" are not part of the central repository. The not-so-committed committer, the "leaf nodes", the larger set of developers who are working on some part they're personally interested in and who do not yet have the trust of the core, can still have the luxury of committing/version control for their personal project. It's harder for me to see how a casual programmer can easily get their own copy of a svn repository to work on a private project. And when they're done, it's not easy for me to figure out how to share a patch with the core (well there's larry wall's "patch"!)- I mean git has that as part of the core functionality, whereas with svn (cvs etc) synchronizing repositories isn't an everyday task. I'd be interested in comments from anyone who's looked at both svk and git- I seem to recall a prominent perl-er moving from svk to git last year but my recollection is hazy. From rdm at cfcl.com Mon Jan 5 11:39:02 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:39:02 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: <527379D4-14DA-4B79-84ED-20BEE64A6012@highwire.stanford.edu> References: <527379D4-14DA-4B79-84ED-20BEE64A6012@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: At 11:15 -0800 1/5/09, Michael Friedman wrote: > You're still going to have one Pumpking. Or so it seems to me... I think the technical differences affect the social practices. In SVN (AFAIK), it's a nuisance to maintain multiple copies of the source tree, merge them, etc. So, that's not what is done. In Git, this is so trivial that developers create new branches for a few minutes of experimentation, then discard them. -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Mon Jan 5 12:02:30 2009 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:02:30 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <527379D4-14DA-4B79-84ED-20BEE64A6012@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: Really? You can fork for a half-day project in Git? Wow, that's cool. That must mean that there are no changes directly to the trunk, only merges from everyone's single-project forks. That seems like it would make the kind of large-scale programmer sharing that OSS projects do much easier. I'm still stuck with CVS at work, so we don't fork at all... Thanks yary & Rich for the info! -- Mike On Jan 5, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Rich Morin wrote: > At 11:15 -0800 1/5/09, Michael Friedman wrote: >> You're still going to have one Pumpking. Or so it seems to me... > > I think the technical differences affect the social practices. > In SVN (AFAIK), it's a nuisance to maintain multiple copies of > the source tree, merge them, etc. So, that's not what is done. > In Git, this is so trivial that developers create new branches > for a few minutes of experimentation, then discard them. > > -r > -- > http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin > http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com > http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 > > Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Friedman | HighWire Press, Stanford Univ | friedman at highwire.stanford.edu From quinn at fairpath.com Mon Jan 5 14:44:39 2009 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:44:39 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: <75cbfa570901051138m2f88e128o38ef19b76d7bbd78@mail.gmail.com> References: <527379D4-14DA-4B79-84ED-20BEE64A6012@highwire.stanford.edu> <75cbfa570901051138m2f88e128o38ef19b76d7bbd78@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090105224439.GA7550@mtn> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:38:36AM -0800, yary wrote: > I'm a subversion fan and have yet to check out git. That said- > > [...] > > I think the difference is with git, the "branches" are not part of the > central repository. The not-so-committed committer, the "leaf nodes", > the larger set of developers who are working on some part they're > personally interested in and who do not yet have the trust of the > core, can still have the luxury of committing/version control for > their personal project. Can someone who's a git guru please comment on this? I'm in the process of switching to git from monotone (the last, GPL'ed system Linus tried before throwing up his hands and writing git). I won't go into detail on mtn, but, in normal usage, the server tracks the entire history of *any branches that you have (or have had)* and *any personal checkpoint-type commits you've made*. Same for all other developers who sync with the server. The server knows all. In fact, when you sync or pull from the server, your client knows all, and you can work in offline mode with the whole history at your fingertips. Of course, you can still work on a branch without fear of breaking the main line of development. It's wonderful. I think it's really valuable that the mtn server tracks all branches past and present, and all commits offline or on-. Does git do the same thing? I could find this out the hard way, but I'm just sticking my toes in the git stream and I'd love to hear from someone more experienced before diving in. If you're that person, thanks! PS: If you're interested in the history of how Linus's love and hate for mtn inspired him to write git, see http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/4/8/9 and http://lwn.net/Articles/249460/ . -- Quinn Weaver Full-stack web consultant quinn at fairpath.com 510-520-5217 (mobile) From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Jan 5 16:47:03 2009 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:47:03 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20090105224439.GA7550@mtn> (Quinn Weaver's message of "Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:44:39 -0800") References: <527379D4-14DA-4B79-84ED-20BEE64A6012@highwire.stanford.edu> <75cbfa570901051138m2f88e128o38ef19b76d7bbd78@mail.gmail.com> <20090105224439.GA7550@mtn> Message-ID: <86ocyli7lk.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Quinn" == Quinn Weaver writes: Quinn> I think it's really valuable that the mtn server tracks all branches Quinn> past and present, and all commits offline or on-. Does git do the same Quinn> thing? Yes. git and monotone are very close. Linus even has said that had monotone been a bit more mature when needed, he might not have created git. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Jan 5 17:38:26 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:38:26 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Perl Monger Admins: Please forward to list if you haven't received any advertisement for the Frozen Perl 2009 conference. Thank you! In-Reply-To: <731D6890-6DE7-4E70-A8C0-06BB9CF3CC3A@viebrock.us> References: <731D6890-6DE7-4E70-A8C0-06BB9CF3CC3A@viebrock.us> Message-ID: I've read some good reviews on this workshop. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Seth Viebrock Date: Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 3:43 PM Subject: Perl Monger Admins: Please forward to list if you haven't received any advertisement for the Frozen Perl 2009 conference. Thank you! To: Frozen Perl is a three day event held at the University of Minnesota's McNamara Alumni Center in Minneapolis, MN. The main event is a one-day, two-track workshop on Saturday, February 7. There will also be a Perl class taught by brian d foy of Stonehenge Consulting on Friday, February 6, and a hackathon on Sunday, February 8. This class is being offered at a very low rate of $100 per person, and there are 4 student seats available at $25 each. The early bird price for the conference is $20 at the student/low-income rate, and $40 for everyone else. These prices will double on January 12, 2009. We also have an individual sponsorship rate of $120 if you'd like to give a little extra to support the workshop. You can register for the conference at http://www.frozen-perl.org/ Thank you for your time and support! The Frozen Perl 2009 Organizers From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Mon Jan 5 20:42:51 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:42:51 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) Message-ID: <200901060442.n064gpDc082819@kzsu.stanford.edu> Quinn Weaver wrote: > PS: If you're interested in the history of how Linus's love and hate for mtn > inspired him to write git, see http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/4/8/9 and > http://lwn.net/Articles/249460/ . You know, while SQLite is impressive for what it is, I can't see how anyone could mistake it for a "real database": it has no foreign key support. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Tue Jan 6 09:25:37 2009 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:25:37 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200901060442.n064gpDc082819@kzsu.stanford.edu> (Joe Brenner's message of "Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:42:51 -0800") References: <200901060442.n064gpDc082819@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <867i58ibxq.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe Brenner writes: Joe> You know, while SQLite is impressive for what it is, I can't see how Joe> anyone could mistake it for a "real database": it has no foreign key Joe> support. But it *does* have triggers. And people confused MySQL as a "real database" for years too. some still do. :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From matt at lanier.org Tue Jan 6 10:00:10 2009 From: matt at lanier.org (Matthew Lanier) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:00:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: <867i58ibxq.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <200901060442.n064gpDc082819@kzsu.stanford.edu> <867i58ibxq.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: ok, when we get into DB bashing, i call time out ;-) m@ On Tue, 6 Jan 2009, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> "Joe" == Joe Brenner writes: > > Joe> You know, while SQLite is impressive for what it is, I can't see how > Joe> anyone could mistake it for a "real database": it has no foreign key > Joe> support. > > But it *does* have triggers. > > And people confused MySQL as a "real database" for years too. some still > do. :) > > -- Matthew D. P. K. Strelchun-Lanier matt at lanier.org http://www.bearlywornpacifica.com From quinn at fairpath.com Tue Jan 6 13:45:46 2009 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:45:46 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl Migrates To the Git Version Control System (fwd) In-Reply-To: <86ocyli7lk.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <527379D4-14DA-4B79-84ED-20BEE64A6012@highwire.stanford.edu> <75cbfa570901051138m2f88e128o38ef19b76d7bbd78@mail.gmail.com> <20090105224439.GA7550@mtn> <86ocyli7lk.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <20090106214546.GA13604@mtn> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 04:47:03PM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > >>>>> "Quinn" == Quinn Weaver writes: > > Quinn> I think it's really valuable that the mtn server tracks all branches > Quinn> past and present, and all commits offline or on-. Does git do the same > Quinn> thing? > > Yes. git and monotone are very close. Linus even has said that had monotone > been a bit more mature when needed, he might not have created git. Awesome. Thank you. While we're on the topic, has anyone used tailor (or something else) to migrate history from mtn to git? Any recommendations or caveats? After 20-30 minutes of Googling, it appears that tailor is the only game in town. It should work, but it's new, and I'm feeling some FUD. If no one's tried it, I'll do it myself and report back, probably next week. Thanks, -- Quinn Weaver Full-stack web consultant quinn at fairpath.com 510-520-5217 (mobile) From rdm at cfcl.com Fri Jan 9 23:51:31 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:51:31 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] OT Fwd: Hobby Engineering Warehouse Sale This Saturday In South San Francisco Message-ID: I know; it's not Perl, but some folks here might like it, anyway! -r --- Begin Forward --- > From: "Al Margolis - Hobby Engineering" > > I've got too much inventory and not enough cash ... please help > solve my problem. > > This Saturday I am opening the new warehouse to customers for the > first time ever. I mainly need to sell educational and hobby kits > for kids. Come see the biggest selection of educational science > kits, robot kits, plastic and wood model kits you have ever seen in > one place. Everything on display will be on sale with many items > below my cost. Unlike simple toys that completely fade from memory > after a few weeks, these kits teach your kids science and > engineering information and skills that last a lifetime. The > selection includes products from the web site and lots of other > things too! You will have a lot of fun looking and see deals too > hard to pass by. > > I will also have odds and ends of my regular electronic and robot > products but the sale is primarily for kids products. No kids? Grab > something for a niece, nephew or neighbor or to scavenge for your > next project. Please tell your friends! > > When: Saturday, January 10, 2008 from 10:00am until 3pm. > Where: 282 Harbor Way, Unit D, South San Francisco, CA 94080 > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=282+Harbor+Way, > +South+San+Francisco,+CA > +94080&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.854268,56.601563&ie=UTF8&ll=37.6 > 49748,-122.400119&spn=0.007271,0.013819&z=16&g=282+Harbor+Way,+South > +San+Francisco,+CA+94080&iwloc=r2 > > What you will find on sale: > - OWI and Tamiya robot kits > - Erector, Fischertechnik, KNEX, Bridge Street Girder & Panel, and > Superstructs building sets > - Rokenbol r/c buildomg sets > - Dowling Magnetics, Thames & Kosmos and many other science kits > - Plastic and Wood Model Kits > - Bachman and Lionel train sets > - R/C Cars, Helicopters and Planes > - Odds & Ends > > Please note: This is really a warehouse. Its not a great > environment for young kids or dress-up clothes. The warehouse often > feels colder than outdoors, dress warm! There is plenty of street > parking ... the building parking lot is reserved for other tenants. > > I don't have my own signage, just walk in the garage door at the > front of the building near the "282" sign. If you get lost or need > other help on Saturday call 650-588-4646. I will be working with > little or no help, so things may get hectic during the middle of > the day. If time allows I'll be glad to help with products from my > regular inventory or give you the grand tour. > > Can't make it to the warehouse this Saturday? I have lots of on- > line specials too: > http://www.hobbyengineering.com/Specials.html > > If you need help choosing, try my gift guide: > http://www.hobbyengineering.com/DeptXG.html > > Don't forget to browse the rest of the site for thousands of other > gift and project items at my normal great prices. > > Would you like to be able to shop in person at Hobby Engineering on > a regular basis? I want to help! But I need your help -- please > shop at this sale and then keep coming back for your project > supplies. I need to get Hobby Engineering Internet fully healthy > again before reopening the store -- my first attempt at retail just > about killed me. I know a lot more about retail now, but I'm still > dumb enough to give it another try. One thing I've learned is that > while every successful retail store needs a web site, successful > web sites don't need retail stores. Hobby Engineering will be a > purely on-line store while the retail business will have a > different name, different (but overlapping) product mix and > different policies. Curious? Take a peek: > http://www.theimimstore.com/ > > If you like our products and services, please tell a friend or post > a link on your web site. Please let me know if you have any > comments or suggestions regarding our newsletter, web site, product > line or service. > > Sincerely, > -- Al Margolis, founder www.HobbyEngineering.com www.theIMIMstore.com > A supply store for people who want to build robots, electronic > gadgets, kinetic art or anything else that moves, beeps or flashes. --- End Forward --- -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri Jan 9 23:55:31 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:55:31 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] [OT] Fw: Re: SF Perl Users + Open Source mapping project Message-ID: This isn't Perl is an interesting open source project. For more information email sarah at cloudmade.com. ===================================== Hi Fred, Here is the link to the event. If you could send it out to your group I would really appreciate it. I would also love to attend one of your meetings and give a presentation about OSM, so if that is something that may interest you, let me know. Sat Jan 17th at the Jewish Community Center of SF http://community.cloudmade.com/events/january/sanfrancisco/opensource Cheers, Sarah From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Jan 14 13:16:35 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:16:35 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Jan 27th meeting talk details Message-ID: The talk for the January 27th meeting will be "How not to use memcache" by Jonathan Steinert - http://search.cpan.org/~hachi/ See the meetup site for details, and please RSVP so that we can plan for how much food is needed - http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/9432356/ Food will be provided, and food fund donations will be gladly accepted. The beverage selection will consist of what people bring, so feel free to bring outside beverages to the meeting. From rdm at cfcl.com Thu Jan 15 01:20:42 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:20:42 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] DNS change for sf.pm.org Message-ID: Several days ago, we moved cfcl.com (from 208.201.233.106) to a new IP address (64.142.15.200). Although we host sf.pm.org, we do not provide DNS service for the site (and I forgot about it). Please change your DNS settings as soon as possible; because of the way the site is set up, even coming in through the correct IP address will not pull up the correct page, unless the name in the URL is correct. Meanwhile, I have sym-linked the site to http://cfcl.com/sfpm/, which seems to allow access. Apologies to all... -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From woof at danlo.com Thu Jan 15 07:26:45 2009 From: woof at danlo.com (Daniel Lo) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 07:26:45 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Secure password storage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> Greetings, My old Palm Pilot: Tungeston-T died a week ago. Now I have to find a new method of password storage. The problem I am facing is that I can't find any devices suitable for password storage. What did I store on my PDA? Financial passwords. (Liability rests on me to keep it secure and the company disclaims all liability for stolen passwords: of course) System passwords. (My job if these are stolen.) However, now all PDA's have wifi, bluetooth, USB ports, and Irfd and I evaluate these devices on what they are capable of, not what the software allows for (Paris Hilton having all of her phone numbers stolen). So, when I saw that the pocket PC came with Internet Explorer I overflowed my joy buffer. Storing my passwords on a device that is capable of silently sending out information without any detection (and runs IE) isn't that great. All of my passwords are garblygook that I have a hard time remembering for example: C:j2Tc3K9#@ would be a sample password. And I use the same method for those questions: Where were you born? "I was born in (c1)32CSF}" The only thing I can think of is to store my passwords in a pocket PC in "PasswordSafe: http://www.schneier.com/passsafe.html" with an additional mnemonic password encoding. So that C:j2Tc3K9#@ would be stuck with the following rules: Every 3rd character is incremented by its ordinal value by one. C:j2Tc3K9#@ would be C:i2Td3K0#@ Now, if you have read this far, I'm sure most of you think I need to be sent to the funny farm. But what hacks have I seen/heard about in the last 3 months? 1. IE: all password can be stolen 2. Adobe: buffer overflow execute allows for arbitrary code run. 3. DNS: hack. 4. That neat trick on how to extract memory on a computer after it has been turned off. (That was really cool). And financial companies say push the liability for stolen passwords on to the user. From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com Thu Jan 15 08:13:21 2009 From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty) Date: 15 Jan 2009 11:13:21 -0500 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Secure password storage Message-ID: <23009726.1232036004056.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1> Have you looked on Craigslist for another Tungeston-T? There seems to be allot of the older palms on there for about $20-$50... Blake Haggerty Permanent Placement Specialist Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company 27 Maiden Lane San Francisco, CA 94108 (p) (415) 788-8488 (f) (415) 788-2592 www.sapphirena.com -----Original Message----- From:Daniel Lo woof at danlo.com To: "San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group" ; Sent: Jan 15, 2009 07:36:58 AM Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Secure password storage Greetings, My old Palm Pilot: Tungeston-T died a week ago. Now I have to find a new method of password storage. The problem I am facing is that I can't find any devices suitable for password storage. What did I store on my PDA? Financial passwords. (Liability rests on me to keep it secure and the company disclaims all liability for stolen passwords: of course) System passwords. (My job if these are stolen.) However, now all PDA's have wifi, bluetooth, USB ports, and Irfd and I evaluate these devices on what they are capable of, not what the software allows for (Paris Hilton having all of her phone numbers stolen). So, when I saw that the pocket PC came with Internet Explorer I overflowed my joy buffer. Storing my passwords on a device that is capable of silently sending out information without any detection (and runs IE) isn't that great. All of my passwords are garblygook that I have a hard time remembering for example: C:j2Tc3K9#@ would be a sample password. And I use the same method for those questions: Where were you born? "I was born in (c1)32CSF}" The only thing I can think of is to store my passwords in a pocket PC in "PasswordSafe: http://www.schneier.com/passsafe.html" with an additional mnemonic password encoding. So that C:j2Tc3K9#@ would be stuck with the following rules: Every 3rd character is incremented by its ordinal value by one. C:j2Tc3K9#@ would be C:i2Td3K0#@ Now, if you have read this far, I'm sure most of you think I need to be sent to the funny farm. But what hacks have I seen/heard about in the last 3 months? 1. IE: all password can be stolen 2. Adobe: buffer overflow execute allows for arbitrary code run. 3. DNS: hack. 4. That neat trick on how to extract memory on a computer after it has been turned off. (That was really cool). And financial companies say push the liability for stolen passwords on to the user. _______________________________________________ SanFrancisco-pm mailing list SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From extasia at extasia.org Thu Jan 15 08:27:36 2009 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:27:36 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Secure password storage In-Reply-To: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> References: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> Message-ID: <4c714a9c0901150827g7967b951t874096c429a7b91f@mail.gmail.com> hi daniel, i don't store or access my passwords using a portable device, which it sounds like you might want to do, but this works for me: i store my passwords in pgp-encrypted files. i wrote a small utility to edit them after their initial creation. it decrypts to a 0600 perms tmp file; invokes an editor; compares before and after md5sums to detect any changes; prompts the user to save the change if one is detected; re-encrypts data if user opts to save changes; and deletes the tmp file) which makes it super easy to update pgp-encrypted files. i store both personal passwords at home and work passwords at the office this way. also, i've taken to placing "garbage" in all of my pgp-encrypted files. i use the following to generate it: #!/usr/bin/perl use warnings; use strict; $ENV{ PATH } = '/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin'; my $size = shift || 1024; my $s; open my $fh, '/dev/random' or die "$0: can't open /dev/random: $!\n"; if ( sysread( $fh, $s, $size ) != $size ) { die "sysread failed to read $size bytes from /dev/random: $!\n"; } # if close $fh; my $cmd = "openssl base64"; open my $CMD, "|$cmd" or die "$0: can't open command '$cmd': $!\n"; print $CMD $s; close $CMD; i try to put more "garbage" than "good data" in the files before encrypting them as an added measure to make unauthorized access more difficult. hope this helps, david YrlGMzp10wQWCZuZP8+EgnFVrs685RmSC5Ia4QKEqcaLAbPVbgz0d8k+sxygNIdV Vabb2HbDvYje81zhZSbT9uLJP2I8f7YH0ZlYChQW7vFXTxGCPropnuUsIPUuJyVH qWWDPOmoPocK9gCEO61FLAt8LX5XPvHyuhKH0TA9M2VjMaHkoxKkON4pILV1jgDT ux4sN5KXxHZF/tl0S3eYiM22JbHuQkLv1sKzPPhNRmEkS8YDYQhOtAtYpxwozOZS KTgFxJiV3eZ2tI5/u1NW2Aor9xZIv5uVYcc01zRR4sx4hen1Htpkh0bbgMm5Xevg C4I//1kZ/x7Y4dz5bzttHlRKefTO9oytC6tajFRxn4S4A0OyqGvsigA2iCDRx0Ki nR1myrv2qe//VavZWSPx+/i/eBQ9Z7cBehGaznYzpUG2lD1QrU0Z0HbRKQzMp/7h 1+i6d+GRcsoOrqst8fNjGvyrwqRWAOQaTDm0RNnNOPFN1fMEPb1Zz0GJBrAS2o+q H3vnmwcm1jHLSfrVlKCT9pXJgG2i3z+96lgYOPCBn4WUGKa/rteu5HN1+u6QPR8w LRMsPz3BF0k3a0um6tREaTgPshoI+r22ELvOCl89pISEm513x6VIJcgHZwDBO3mk auDuHbHiTz4wTCTQL95zOYQRJHQabokO2fqtHhUQj+8vWtwfbdcmq89IklK9zguZ pjONGTPSUIRdntCP/vpgIsMFPb4TbGP5L1a1SEBPxqMx/m6V/2vq5pX4EP6Kdu4v PUACDJHnkYZVpcEQICqJJy3KS8VsYoFJZybd65yLKiao0YrMwuC8iN4bx6xrTMrn NgiJq54AyKB6X2o4kK7XTS2V1YvkIshqaFr130D9a47TVWIuce0arMp3j8OsytV8 VgpHmUDkaZwGTpgo0tBAt+LeW03vzycwO2RGac8Q/MTfJdkGxO3zSX6JtXYP+Ze/ +KS3MlIIHK0pK905GgnvnPgXOTIxFo5QpKoHfeGKtqaI9ViXiXrwvcITvAN+Exgx UiflHA3hf61fNZBMLyC7i4NepF3bloHrTaV2obFm7xL7x0WnxRXAFjBBYIHE1Qnd qgzF1mj0nyWHq1tN5Q+cQaVLDNIQ0CoqYMeA8bSxqw/nhYptRwD6ukQiTjlH+qU4 8J4WJZj/126VYeV71xqwxJxaycd30Z61e6lpjZABdfhIZ/UDIHg1RFpMkYmT8fJa sdKxlfrdKEl8hkivir3ISwMtST7w9PbXPySn5xY9TblbkhjmlMyTRm2RSEB+2QCv BhRvtxDbDV4hC6ucXAFKg79sGcq2xDyVSEbm327cVu+bdQWLmEWzcKLuQ7UHZFyO lQxPK7shg1zTavQ+k5yn3Q== On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Daniel Lo wrote: > Now I have to find a new method of password storage. The problem I am facing is > that I can't find any devices suitable for password storage. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From merlyn at stonehenge.com Thu Jan 15 09:06:54 2009 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:06:54 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Secure password storage In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0901150827g7967b951t874096c429a7b91f@mail.gmail.com> (David Alban's message of "Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:27:36 -0800") References: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> <4c714a9c0901150827g7967b951t874096c429a7b91f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86iqogzefl.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "David" == David Alban writes: David> also, i've taken to placing "garbage" in all of my pgp-encrypted David> files. i use the following to generate it: David> #!/usr/bin/perl David> use warnings; David> use strict; David> $ENV{ PATH } = '/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin'; David> my $size = shift || 1024; David> my $s; David> open my $fh, '/dev/random' or die "$0: can't open /dev/random: $!\n"; David> if ( sysread( $fh, $s, $size ) != $size ) { David> die "sysread failed to read $size bytes from /dev/random: $!\n"; David> } # if David> close $fh; David> my $cmd = "openssl base64"; David> open my $CMD, "|$cmd" or die "$0: can't open command '$cmd': $!\n"; David> print $CMD $s; David> close $CMD; You missed "openssl rand -base64 1024", eh? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From moseley at hank.org Thu Jan 15 09:59:01 2009 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:59:01 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Secure password storage In-Reply-To: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> References: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> Message-ID: <20090115175901.GA19776@hank.org> There's a Vim tip for using gpg toward the end of: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Encryption Need a trusted machine for that (and everything else), of course. -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org Sent from my iMutt From bob.goolsby at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 10:07:19 2009 From: bob.goolsby at gmail.com (Bob goolsby) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:07:19 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Secure password storage In-Reply-To: <20090115175901.GA19776@hank.org> References: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> <20090115175901.GA19776@hank.org> Message-ID: <1a208dd0901151007m790dae19kb3e934ac02fed694@mail.gmail.com> I am using an OQO net-top machine for my 'secure' needs. I keep the WiFi and WAN disabled as a matter of routine; the Wire really sucks battery if I leave them on. That means that, even though I run Windows XP on the little gem, I can't get wire-/blue- jacked with out my knowing that I am exposed. The file that I have the passwords in is also PGP encrypted, just because I am sort of paranoid that way. Bob G On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Bill Moseley wrote: > There's a Vim tip for using gpg toward the end of: > > http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Encryption > > Need a trusted machine for that (and everything else), of course. > > > -- > Bill Moseley > moseley at hank.org > Sent from my iMutt > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From extasia at extasia.org Thu Jan 15 10:23:51 2009 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:23:51 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Secure password storage In-Reply-To: <86iqogzefl.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> <4c714a9c0901150827g7967b951t874096c429a7b91f@mail.gmail.com> <86iqogzefl.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <4c714a9c0901151023w5d19fa6cg3bac9ecf52c46423@mail.gmail.com> heh. i sure did. thanks. online communities rule. On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > You missed "openssl rand -base64 1024", eh? -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From extasia at extasia.org Thu Jan 15 10:26:00 2009 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:26:00 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Secure password storage In-Reply-To: <20090115175901.GA19776@hank.org> References: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> <20090115175901.GA19776@hank.org> Message-ID: <4c714a9c0901151026lca357e3vcbed921c4ecd6c30@mail.gmail.com> thanks, but i'm more comfortable programming in perl than in "vimrc". :-) (although vim is my editor of choice.) On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Bill Moseley wrote: > There's a Vim tip for using gpg toward the end of: > > http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Encryption -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. From sphink at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 10:42:39 2009 From: sphink at gmail.com (Steve Fink) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:42:39 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Secure password storage In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0901151023w5d19fa6cg3bac9ecf52c46423@mail.gmail.com> References: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> <4c714a9c0901150827g7967b951t874096c429a7b91f@mail.gmail.com> <86iqogzefl.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <4c714a9c0901151023w5d19fa6cg3bac9ecf52c46423@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7d7f2e8c0901151042v68fe0a47v94c510062c90ed82@mail.gmail.com> Or if you fear the openssl command line, as I do, there's always dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1024 count=1 | base64 I suppose openssl rand is probably more trustable for randomness. Best would be /dev/random, but you might have quite a wait if you use that... On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:23 AM, David Alban wrote: > heh. i sure did. thanks. > > online communities rule. > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Randal L. Schwartz > wrote: >> You missed "openssl rand -base64 1024", eh? > > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From masri at nolex.com Thu Jan 15 16:32:13 2009 From: masri at nolex.com (Adam Masri) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:32:13 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Secure password storage In-Reply-To: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> References: <47542644.20090115072645@danlo.com> Message-ID: SplashID is available for most platforms. http://splashdata.com/ On Jan 15, 2009, at 7:26 AM, Daniel Lo wrote: > Greetings, > > My old Palm Pilot: Tungeston-T died a week ago. > > Now I have to find a new method of password storage. The problem I > am facing is > that I can't find any devices suitable for password storage. > > What did I store on my PDA? > > Financial passwords. (Liability rests on me to keep it secure and > the company > disclaims all liability for stolen passwords: of course) > > System passwords. (My job if these are stolen.) > > However, now all PDA's have wifi, bluetooth, USB ports, and Irfd and I > evaluate these devices on what they are capable of, not what the > software allows > for (Paris Hilton having all of her phone numbers stolen). So, when > I saw that > the pocket PC came with Internet Explorer I overflowed my joy > buffer. Storing > my passwords on a device that is capable of silently sending out > information > without any detection (and runs IE) isn't that great. > > All of my passwords are garblygook that I have a hard time > remembering for > example: C:j2Tc3K9#@ would be a sample password. And I use the same > method for > those questions: Where were you born? "I was born in (c1)32CSF}" > > The only thing I can think of is to store my passwords in a pocket > PC in > "PasswordSafe: http://www.schneier.com/passsafe.html" with an > additional > mnemonic password encoding. > > So that C:j2Tc3K9#@ would be stuck with the following rules: > > Every 3rd character is incremented by its ordinal value by one. > > C:j2Tc3K9#@ would be C:i2Td3K0#@ > > Now, if you have read this far, I'm sure most of you think I need to > be sent to > the funny farm. But what hacks have I seen/heard about in the last > 3 months? > > 1. IE: all password can be stolen > 2. Adobe: buffer overflow execute allows for arbitrary code run. > 3. DNS: hack. > 4. That neat trick on how to extract memory on a computer after it > has been > turned off. (That was really cool). > > And financial companies say push the liability for stolen passwords > on to the > user. > > > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm Adam Masri masri at nolex.com President www.nolex.com Nolex From quinn at fairpath.com Wed Jan 21 13:50:40 2009 From: quinn at fairpath.com (Quinn Weaver) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:50:40 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] CodeCon! Message-ID: <20090121215040.GA7837@mtn> CodeCon 2009 has finally been announced; it's April 17 - 19. They're having a special biohacking track this time. This is gonna be awesome. http://www.codecon.org/2009/ -- Quinn Weaver Full-stack web consultant quinn at fairpath.com 510-520-5217 (mobile) From josh at agliodbs.com Fri Jan 23 15:07:31 2009 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:07:31 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] CodeCon! In-Reply-To: <20090121215040.GA7837@mtn> References: <20090121215040.GA7837@mtn> Message-ID: <497A4DB3.8040306@agliodbs.com> Quinn Weaver wrote: > CodeCon 2009 has finally been announced; it's April 17 - 19. They're having > a special biohacking track this time. This is gonna be awesome. D'oh! I'll be out of town :-( --Josh From fred at redhotpenguin.com Sat Jan 24 14:51:35 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:51:35 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Tuesday meeting reminder Message-ID: Greetings SF.pm, This is a friendly reminder that we have our first meeting of 2009 on Tuesday at 7 pm at Six Apart Worldwide Headquarters. Meeting details are on meetup.com - http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/9432356/ Food will be provided, and food donations and suggestions are welcome. Also the sf.pm.org website is currently offline so you will need to get the details off of Meetup. I've been working with the PM overlords to get some dns issues resolved, and will post when it is fixed. But you can still visit it here - http://cfcl.com/sfpm/ Looking forward to seeing you there! From rdm at cfcl.com Sun Jan 25 12:31:54 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:31:54 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Tuesday meeting reminder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 14:51 -0800 1/24/09, Fred Moyer wrote: > But you can still visit it here - http://cfcl.com/sfpm/ Except that some of the links on that page don't work (sigh). Anyway, I'm wondering whether there will be any food at the meeting. If not, it might be interesting to pull together an early dinner run, somewhere in the neighborhood. -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From fred at redhotpenguin.com Sun Jan 25 12:58:04 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:58:04 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Tuesday meeting reminder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yep, there will be food at the meeting. Probably a standard mix of vegetarian and non-vegetarian, Thai, Indian, or other (patches^W^W suggestions welcome). On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Rich Morin wrote: > At 14:51 -0800 1/24/09, Fred Moyer wrote: >> But you can still visit it here - http://cfcl.com/sfpm/ > > Except that some of the links on that page don't work (sigh). > > Anyway, I'm wondering whether there will be any food at the > meeting. If not, it might be interesting to pull together an > early dinner run, somewhere in the neighborhood. > > -r > -- > http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin > http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com > http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 > > Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From rdm at cfcl.com Sun Jan 25 13:35:13 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:35:13 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] BASS Meeting (SF), Wed. January 28 Message-ID: Even if you're not a Perlie (but do large-scale web programming), you might want to consider attending Jonathan Steinert's talk: "How not to use memcache" http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/9432356/ Also, if your project could use some help with documentation and/or Ruby or Perl scripting, please keep yours truly in mind... -r BASS Announcements The Beer and Scripting SIG rides again! If you'd like to eat good Italian food, chat with other local scripters, and possibly take a look at laptop-demoed scripting hacks, this is the place to do it! For your convenience, here are the critical details: Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 (4th. Wed.) Time: 8:00 pm Place: Pasquales Pizzeria 701 Irving St. (At 8th. Ave.) San Francisco, California, USA 415/661-2140 See the BASS web page for more information: http://cfcl.com/rdm/bass/ We now have two (2) mailing lists, which you are welcome to join: * http://groups.google.com/group/bass-announce This will be used mostly for BASS announcements, though I may send an occasional notice about other events that look nifty. Expect 1-2 messages per month. * http://groups.google.com/group/bass-discuss This should have relatively little traffic, but no guarantees. The basic idea is that it gives BASS attendees (etc) a place to discuss scripting (and topics of interest to scripters). Like BASS, but more than one evening a month... -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue Jan 27 11:31:28 2009 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:31:28 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder - SFPUG meeting tonight! Message-ID: See the meetup page for details - http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/9432356/ Food will be pizza or thai or indian. From rdm at cfcl.com Tue Jan 27 12:02:00 2009 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:02:00 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder - SFPUG meeting tonight! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Food will be pizza or thai or indian. That certainly narrows it down! -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From josh at agliodbs.com Thu Jan 29 10:24:20 2009 From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:24:20 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Anyone want a ride to/from SCALE? Message-ID: <4981F454.5040801@agliodbs.com> Folks, I'll be going to SCALE conference in about 3 weeks: www.socallinuxexpo.com This is a really cool, community-based conference in Los Angeles. I'm looking for someone who's planning on going to SCALE from the San Francisco Bay Area (or would go if they had a free ride), is a good conversationalist, and would like to be a passenger in my car to & from the conference. We'd leave Friday morning and return Monday afternoon/evening. The car is a 2006 Toyota Camry, and is clean & very comfortable. It also has a fair amount of space, so if you're looking to get booth swag down to the conference, that might be a good method. Crash space may also be available for anyone who wants to spend at least half the weekend working the PostgreSQL booth. Please forward to anyone you know is going. --Josh Berkus From merlyn at stonehenge.com Thu Jan 29 10:27:06 2009 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:27:06 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] Anyone want a ride to/from SCALE? In-Reply-To: <4981F454.5040801@agliodbs.com> (Josh Berkus's message of "Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:24:20 -0800") References: <4981F454.5040801@agliodbs.com> Message-ID: <864ozi3r45.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Josh" == Josh Berkus writes: Josh> I'm looking for someone who's planning on going to SCALE from the San Josh> Francisco Bay Area (or would go if they had a free ride), is a good Josh> conversationalist, and would like to be a passenger in my car to & from Josh> the conference. We'd leave Friday morning and return Monday Josh> afternoon/evening. Can you swing by portland? :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Thu Jan 29 17:34:15 2009 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:34:15 -0800 Subject: [sf-perl] The Call for Lightning Message-ID: <200901300134.n0U1YFek011598@kzsu.stanford.edu> As SF-PM's sole Co-Chair, I'm in charge (to some extent) of Speakers... and I'm pleased to announce a call for lightning talks, to be delivered at the next meeting, February 24th, 2009. Anyone have any ideas for things they'd like to give a short talk about? Shoot me a line -- or talk about them on-list if you'd like. What are lightning talks? http://perl.plover.com/lightning-talks.html Good lightning talk topics are easy to come by: "my favorite cpan module" "check out this cool hack" "stupidest coding mistake I've ever made" "a very neat perl 5.10 feature" "worst perl gotchas" "ORMs: threat or menance?"