From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Tue Dec  1 12:06:36 2009
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:06:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] oddity with an exported and localized variable
In-Reply-To: <125a2a000911302354r1725c09as8c68abb844480020@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200911260823.nAQ8N40c034023@kzsu.stanford.edu>
	<125a2a000911302354r1725c09as8c68abb844480020@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200912012006.nB1K6aN1046338@kzsu.stanford.edu>


David Lowe <j.david.lowe at gmail.com> wrote:

> Joe et al. -
>
> Joe Brenner <doom at kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:

> > The point here is that the exported sub appears to be
> > seeing the value the variable was assigned in the module,
> > rather than seeing the current value assigned in the script.
> > This isn't the way dynamic scoping is supposed to work,
> > correct?  Any ideas what might be going on here?
>
> This surprising behavior is documented in 'perldoc perlmod':
> http://perldoc.perl.org/perlmod.html#Symbol-Tables
>
> The fix is to change both the export and import lists to
> '*exported_variable' instead of '$exported_variable'; making these
> changes causes the example code to behave as expected.

Quite right! It is, indeed, documented there in "perlmod"... (but
not, for example, in "Exporter"):

  What makes all of this important is that the Exporter module uses
  glob aliasing as the import/export mechanism. Whether or not you
  can properly localize a variable that has been exported from a
  module depends on how it was exported:

   1. @EXPORT = qw($FOO); # Usual form, can't be localized
   2. @EXPORT = qw(*FOO); # Can be localized

> The bug, IMO, is that neither the documentation for 'Exporter' nor
> 'local' mention it. OTOH the documentation for Exporter *does* say
> (paraphrasing) "DO NOT EXPORT VARIABLES"... and the documentation for
> 'local' *does* say (paraphrasing) "DO NOT USE LOCAL EXCEPT FOR MAGIC
> PUNCTUATION VARIABLES"... so there's a bit of poetic justice at work
> here, too ;)

Yes, obviously you only hit this feature-bug if you're doing *two*
things that would now usually, be regarded as poor style, and I
didn't mean to suggest that writing code like this is a good idea.
But on the other hand, these features *do* exist, and really are
supposed to work and even, "do what I mean".  And you might even
turn up an odd case where it makes sense to do things like this.




From hartzell at alerce.com  Wed Dec  2 08:16:03 2009
From: hartzell at alerce.com (George Hartzell)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:16:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] A simpler perl technicality question.
Message-ID: <19222.37571.643782.145298@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


I got a lot out of the discussion of local, Exporter, and symbol
tables.  It got me thinking that all y'all might have something to say
about a simpler question.

Assuming that you're not using Moose, it's well known that you should
'use strict' and 'use warnings'.  I've habitually put them after my
package declaration, but I've been reading through Ricardo Signes code
(Dist::Zilla is pretty darn useful) and I've noticed that he puts them
before the package distribution.  Perlmodlib says that 'Some pragmas
are lexically scoped [...] Others affect the current package instead
[...]' but doesn't do a good job explaining which are which.  Along
the same lines I believe I've heard that doing '-w' is different than
'use warnings' but didn't file away the details.

So, from a maximal safety point of view:

  use strict; use warnings;
  package FOO;

or 

  package FOO;
  use strict; use warnings;

and how does -w fit in?

Thanks for any clarity you can bring,

g.

From not.com at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 09:19:25 2009
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:19:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] A simpler perl technicality question.
In-Reply-To: <19222.37571.643782.145298@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <19222.37571.643782.145298@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <75cbfa570912020919g7419e674va941bd7144df1d3a@mail.gmail.com>

> Assuming that you're not using Moose, it's well known that you should
> 'use strict' and 'use warnings'.

For anyone unfamiliar with Moose, it turns on strictures & warnings
anyway. It's not a case of Moose being hurt by warn/strict, it's just
a little redundant. (I would say to still leave them in to make it
clear they are turned on, but then I've never used Moose much. I
suppose folks who use it regularly know it by better nature).

(Insert usual disclaimer about very short "throw away" scripts not
needing strict, can be quicker to code without it. You will discover
the border with experience, usually when you make a typo in a variable
name.)

As for "-w" vs "use warnings", "use warnings" gives you fine detail
over which warnings you want on or off- though that isn't all!
"perldoc perllexwarn" has a good description of the tradeoff. A
pointer to there can be found under "perldoc warnings", along with
this brief description:

    The "warnings" pragma is a replacement for the command line flag "-w",
    but the pragma is limited to the enclosing block, while the flag is
    global. See perllexwarn for more information.

that is, with "-w" you are turning on warnings for everything you
"use" as well, which may give you spurious warnings, if a module
wasn't designed with warnings in mind. It's analogous to "dynamic" vs
"lexical" scoping and so quite appropriate as a followup to the last
thread!

-y




On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:16 AM, George Hartzell <hartzell at alerce.com> wrote:
>
> I got a lot out of the discussion of local, Exporter, and symbol
> tables. ?It got me thinking that all y'all might have something to say
> about a simpler question.
>
?I've habitually put them after my
> package declaration, but I've been reading through Ricardo Signes code
> (Dist::Zilla is pretty darn useful) and I've noticed that he puts them
> before the package distribution. ?Perlmodlib says that 'Some pragmas
> are lexically scoped [...] Others affect the current package instead
> [...]' but doesn't do a good job explaining which are which. ?Along
> the same lines I believe I've heard that doing '-w' is different than
> 'use warnings' but didn't file away the details.
>
> So, from a maximal safety point of view:
>
> ?use strict; use warnings;
> ?package FOO;
>
> or
>
> ?package FOO;
> ?use strict; use warnings;
>
> and how does -w fit in?
>
> Thanks for any clarity you can bring,
>
> g.
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Wed Dec  2 13:38:06 2009
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:38:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] A simpler perl technicality question.
In-Reply-To: <19222.37571.643782.145298@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <19222.37571.643782.145298@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <200912022138.nB2Lc6wb071942@kzsu.stanford.edu>


George Hartzell <hartzell at alerce.com> wrote:

> So, from a maximal safety point of view:
>
>   use strict; use warnings;
>   package FOO;
>
> or
>
>   package FOO;
>   use strict; use warnings;

I doubt there's any real difference.

You might wonder if a package line acts as a lexical boundary -- I don't
*think* that it does but if it did, then putting strict and warnings
before the package line would be completely wrong.

So doing it the first way is (a) non-standard and (b) inspires FUD in
the mind of maintenance programmers.  I would further add that it might
confuse a poor, simple-minded IDE [1] that expects the package name to
be defined at the top of the file.

Also, the benefit of doing it the first way seems non-existent.
You don't need to do that to catch compilation problems with the
package line.

(And perhaps unfortunately, there's no warnings if you have a
package name that doesn't match the file name, or if you use a
problematic package name like "m" or "s")

> and how does -w fit in?

Like Yary said, you need to read perllexwarn for the real low-down...
but the way I would summarize it is that you don't need to worry about
that too much.  The rules of the warnings pragma were carefully
thought out to minimize surprise to people used to doing it the old way.

Myself, I create new perl files from templates, so they always have
the warnings and strict pragmas, and I no longer bother with -w in
the hashbang line, but I still use it when checking syntax:

   perl -Mstrict -cw  <filename>


[1] I just checked, and putting the pragmas before the package line
confuses perlnow.el.  If I create a script from a module like that, the
script isn't created with the "use" line to access the module.  Argh.


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Thu Dec  3 10:49:57 2009
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 10:49:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] A simpler perl technicality question.
In-Reply-To: <75cbfa570912020919g7419e674va941bd7144df1d3a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19222.37571.643782.145298@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<75cbfa570912020919g7419e674va941bd7144df1d3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ad28918e0912031049r7a907442qc7dba02197924060@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:19 AM, yary <not.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Assuming that you're not using Moose, it's well known that you should
>> 'use strict' and 'use warnings'.
>
> For anyone unfamiliar with Moose, it turns on strictures & warnings
> anyway. It's not a case of Moose being hurt by warn/strict, it's just
> a little redundant. (I would say to still leave them in to make it
> clear they are turned on, but then I've never used Moose much. I
> suppose folks who use it regularly know it by better nature).
>
> (Insert usual disclaimer about very short "throw away" scripts not
> needing strict, can be quicker to code without it. You will discover
> the border with experience, usually when you make a typo in a variable
> name.)

You should always use strict, especially in the case of short throwaway scripts.

It is like checking the return value of system calls, you should
always do it.  Any time you save by not using strict will end up being
lost in the long run for those few times where you didn't use it and
needed.

From not.com at gmail.com  Thu Dec  3 11:01:50 2009
From: not.com at gmail.com (yary)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 11:01:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] A simpler perl technicality question.
In-Reply-To: <ad28918e0912031049r7a907442qc7dba02197924060@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19222.37571.643782.145298@gargle.gargle.HOWL> 
	<75cbfa570912020919g7419e674va941bd7144df1d3a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<ad28918e0912031049r7a907442qc7dba02197924060@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75cbfa570912031101g3cb85d87h6c04c78d6891879a@mail.gmail.com>

> You should always use strict, especially in the case of short throwaway scripts.
>
> It is like checking the return value of system calls, you should
> always do it.  Any time you save by not using strict will end up being
> lost in the long run for those few times where you didn't use it and
> needed.

Reductio ad absurdum-
perl -pi.bak -e "s/Yari/Yary/g"

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Thu Dec  3 22:37:31 2009
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 22:37:31 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Plack advent calendar
Message-ID: <200912040637.nB46bVP6002296@kzsu.stanford.edu>


I've just discovered the Plack advent calendar:

  http://advent.plackperl.org/2009/12/day-1-getting-plack.html


From extasia at extasia.org  Sun Dec  6 16:25:34 2009
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 16:25:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] windows help for the non-it person?
Message-ID: <4c714a9c0912061625q592fb574w50f762cd77ffa3d5@mail.gmail.com>

$ perl -e 'print "omg!  non-perl post!\n";'

greetings,

other than using a windows laptop at work to host cygwin, i don't have
very much experience with windows.  i have a friend who is a lay
person in computers who needs someone to come and look at his home
desktop's performance.  i suspect his computer is just too old and
weak for the demands he's making on it.  but i'd like the opinion of
someone who knows windows quite well.  which would be most anyone but
me.

can anyone recommend a business in san francisco to which he could
take his pc that would look at it and make a recommendation.  looking
for places that are likely competent, knowledgeable, trustworthy, and
charge reasonable fees.

can anyone recommend such a place (in SF)?  (or maybe if someone had a
really enthusiastic recommendation, near SF would be ok.)

thanks!
david
-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From dave at wrightpopcorn.com  Sun Dec  6 18:01:24 2009
From: dave at wrightpopcorn.com (Dave Turner)
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2009 18:01:24 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] windows help for the non-it person?
In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c0912061625q592fb574w50f762cd77ffa3d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c714a9c0912061625q592fb574w50f762cd77ffa3d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B1C61F4.4060604@wrightpopcorn.com>

Actually the first thing I'd try is downloading a free program called
CCleaner from http://www.ccleaner.com and clean the junk off of it to
see if that makes a difference. The other easy option is to max out the
memory, but if your friend really insists on on-site service you might
check Laptop TLC http://www.laptoptlc.com/ and see if they do on-site.
They did work on my wife's Toshiba laptop and were great.

Good luck!

David Alban wrote:
> $ perl -e 'print "omg!  non-perl post!\n";'
>
> greetings,
>
> other than using a windows laptop at work to host cygwin, i don't have
> very much experience with windows.  i have a friend who is a lay
> person in computers who needs someone to come and look at his home
> desktop's performance.  i suspect his computer is just too old and
> weak for the demands he's making on it.  but i'd like the opinion of
> someone who knows windows quite well.  which would be most anyone but
> me.
>
> can anyone recommend a business in san francisco to which he could
> take his pc that would look at it and make a recommendation.  looking
> for places that are likely competent, knowledgeable, trustworthy, and
> charge reasonable fees.
>
> can anyone recommend such a place (in SF)?  (or maybe if someone had a
> really enthusiastic recommendation, near SF would be ok.)
>
> thanks!
> david
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2548 - Release Date: 12/05/09 23:30:00
>
>   


From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon Dec  7 12:17:57 2009
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:17:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Frozen Perl 2010 call for speakers
In-Reply-To: <20091207175149.GE21768@mawode.com>
References: <20091207175149.GE21768@mawode.com>
Message-ID: <ad28918e0912071217p56d0f55ela1d35f721eb8238a@mail.gmail.com>

package YAPC::FrozenPerl;

use strict;
use warnings;

__PACKAGE__->print("Brrr.....");

1;

----- Forwarded message from Leonard Miller <leonard at umn.edu> -----

Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:19:01 -0600
From: Leonard Miller <leonard at umn.edu>
To: yapc at pm.org
Subject: Re: [yapc] Frozen Perl 2010 call for speakers

Hey everyone,

The call for speakers has been extended just one week, so the new
deadline is midnight on 12/14/2009.

Please get your talks submitted
(http://www.frozen-perl.org/mpw2010/cfs.html ) before then.

Thank you,

Leonard Miller
Frozen Perl Coordinator

leonard wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> The Minneapolis Perl Mongers are organizing a Perl workshop in
> Minneapolis on February 5-7, 2010, and I hope some of you can
> attend. We're also working on a hackathon the day after and two
> Perl classes: ?"Effective Perl Programming",taught by brian d foy
> and "Introduction to Moose" taught by Dave Rolsky on Friday
> February 5th.
>
> If you are a student, you'll be eligible for the super-cheap rates
> for the Workshop ($25 early bird prices for the workshop).
>
> We've also opened our call for speakers, and we'd love to have your
> submissions. You can view the CFS at
> http://www.frozen-perl.org/mpw2010/cfs.html
> <http://www.frozen-perl.org/mpw2009/cfs.html>
>
>
> Thanks much for your time
>
> The Frozen Perl team.


_______________________________________________
yapc mailing list
yapc at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc


----- End forwarded message -----
-
**Majordomo list services provided by PANIX <URL:http://www.panix.com>**
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From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Wed Dec  9 11:35:02 2009
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:35:02 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Group picture from the November meeting
Message-ID: <ad28918e0912091135r3c4ec53ao2b35f5004ec0e83c@mail.gmail.com>

Folks,

Julian Cash has kindly provided us with a high quality version of the
group picture he took at the November meeting.

http://juliancash.com/dist/pm/

Thanks Julian!

From david at fetter.org  Thu Dec 10 11:02:53 2009
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:02:53 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Hosting/Colo?
Message-ID: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>

Folks,

I'm looking for good, bad and ugly experiences with (virtual) hosting
and colos, in particular ones that have at least heard of PostgreSQL.

I've had good experience with Hurricane Electric, but that was several
years ago, and not-so-good experience with the cloud hosting at
Servpath and Amazon EC2.

Suggestions?

Cheers,
David.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

From mgrimes at cpan.org  Thu Dec 10 11:28:13 2009
From: mgrimes at cpan.org (Mark Grimes)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:28:13 -0500
Subject: [sf-perl] Hosting/Colo?
In-Reply-To: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>
References: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <7c99e1970912101128p65b5e142je5480b280441911e@mail.gmail.com>

I have been really happy with Linode.com for a number of years now. You need
to setup and manage your own virtual server, but you have total control over
it. I think linode is a bit more expensive than something like HE (~$20/mo),
but I have a half dozen domains (running mostly Catalyst apps), all being
served from one linode.

-Mark

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 2:02 PM, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I'm looking for good, bad and ugly experiences with (virtual) hosting
> and colos, in particular ones that have at least heard of PostgreSQL.
>
> I've had good experience with Hurricane Electric, but that was several
> years ago, and not-so-good experience with the cloud hosting at
> Servpath and Amazon EC2.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Cheers,
> David.
> --
> David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
> Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
> Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
> iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics
>
> Remember to vote!
> Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
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From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Thu Dec 10 11:48:40 2009
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:48:40 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] December Social
Message-ID: <ad28918e0912101148y315af58fo1063483e1db28981@mail.gmail.com>

We'll be having a group dinner for the December meeting, and have
a few drinks after to wrap up the year. The date for this meeting
is December 22th at 7pm.

"Naan-N-Curry" at 336 O'Farrell Street, between Mason and Taylor.

  http://maps.google.com/maps?q=336+OFarrell+St,+San+Francisco,+CA+94102,+USA

This place has moved around a few times, and has many satellite
locations now, so look at that address carefully. This is across the
street from the Hilton, and next to the entrance to a large parking
garage.

>From the Powell Street Bart station: walk two blocks north along Powell,
and 1.5 blocks west. Don't try to walk up Mason or Taylor, unless
you're in an adventurous mood.

The food is inexpensive, high quality Indian food. They have a buffet
these days, which makes things simpler. Free chai. The dining room
is double-sized, with large tables: there's no need to worry too much
about RSVPs.

  http://naancurry.com/branches.php?brn=5

This place used to be 24 hours, but I guess they've scaled back to
11:00 AM to 4:00 AM. But I don't think we'll need to rush out of
there.

Announcement posted via App::PM::Announce

RSVP at Meetup -
http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12060331/

From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Thu Dec 10 13:33:03 2009
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joe Brenner)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:33:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Hosting/Colo?
In-Reply-To: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>
References: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <200912102133.nBALX3Bs044742@kzsu.stanford.edu>


David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:

> I'm looking for good, bad and ugly experiences with (virtual) hosting
> and colos, in particular ones that have at least heard of PostgreSQL.
>
> I've had good experience with Hurricane Electric, but that was several
> years ago, and not-so-good experience with the cloud hosting at
> Servpath and Amazon EC2.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of problems did they have?

I wouldn't have thought postgresql hosting would be a challenge for
"cloud computing" (or at least, not any more than anything else is).


From ddascalescu at gmail.com  Thu Dec 10 13:37:54 2009
From: ddascalescu at gmail.com (Dan Dascalescu)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:37:54 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Hosting/Colo?
In-Reply-To: <7c99e1970912101128p65b5e142je5480b280441911e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>
	<7c99e1970912101128p65b5e142je5480b280441911e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3561cc6d0912101337n1327135aoa475ad2e6d2aac53@mail.gmail.com>

Seconding Linode. I've been hosting my wiki on it for ~1 year, and
have been as happy as it gets.

Reviews from the Catalyst folks at http://dev.catalystframework.org/wiki/hosting

--
Dan Dascalescu

2009/12/10 Mark Grimes <mgrimes at cpan.org>:
> I have been really happy with Linode.com for a number of years now. You need
> to setup and manage your own virtual server, but you have total control over
> it. I think linode is a bit more expensive than something like HE (~$20/mo),
> but I have a half dozen domains (running mostly Catalyst apps), all being
> served from one linode.
>
> -Mark
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 2:02 PM, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I'm looking for good, bad and ugly experiences with (virtual) hosting
>> and colos, in particular ones that have at least heard of PostgreSQL.
>>
>> I've had good experience with Hurricane Electric, but that was several
>> years ago, and not-so-good experience with the cloud hosting at
>> Servpath and Amazon EC2.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David.
>> --
>> David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
>> Phone: +1 415 235 3778 ?AIM: dfetter666 ?Yahoo!: dfetter
>> Skype: davidfetter ? ? ?XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
>> iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics
>>
>> Remember to vote!
>> Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
>> _______________________________________________
>> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
>> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
>

From gj262 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 10 14:15:14 2009
From: gj262 at yahoo.com (Gavin Jefferies)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:15:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-perl] Hosting/Colo?
In-Reply-To: <3561cc6d0912101337n1327135aoa475ad2e6d2aac53@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>
	<7c99e1970912101128p65b5e142je5480b280441911e@mail.gmail.com>
	<3561cc6d0912101337n1327135aoa475ad2e6d2aac53@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <336978.25532.qm@web37107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I would also recommend Linode. 

But if it is server colocation you are after I would recommend the
folks at monkeybrains.net. They are a small independent local
operation with excellent service and space in SF data centers. 
I have had 0 downtime with my site there in over a year now.

-Gavin




----- Original Message ----
> From: Dan Dascalescu <ddascalescu at gmail.com>
> To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group <sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org>
> Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 1:37:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Hosting/Colo?
> 
> Seconding Linode. I've been hosting my wiki on it for ~1 year, and
> have been as happy as it gets.
> 
> Reviews from the Catalyst folks at http://dev.catalystframework.org/wiki/hosting
> 
> --
> Dan Dascalescu
> 
> 2009/12/10 Mark Grimes :
> > I have been really happy with Linode.com for a number of years now. You need
> > to setup and manage your own virtual server, but you have total control over
> > it. I think linode is a bit more expensive than something like HE (~$20/mo),
> > but I have a half dozen domains (running mostly Catalyst apps), all being
> > served from one linode.
> >
> > -Mark
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 2:02 PM, David Fetter wrote:
> >>
> >> Folks,
> >>
> >> I'm looking for good, bad and ugly experiences with (virtual) hosting
> >> and colos, in particular ones that have at least heard of PostgreSQL.
> >>
> >> I've had good experience with Hurricane Electric, but that was several
> >> years ago, and not-so-good experience with the cloud hosting at
> >> Servpath and Amazon EC2.
> >>
> >> Suggestions?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> David.
> >> --
> >> David Fetter http://fetter.org/
> >> Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
> >> Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
> >> iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics
> >>
> >> Remember to vote!
> >> Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> >> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From fluxnet at gmail.com  Thu Dec 10 16:09:58 2009
From: fluxnet at gmail.com (Bern)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:09:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Hosting/Colo?
In-Reply-To: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>
References: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <f4b0d8050912101609s14d4803chdb3107cce55c4021@mail.gmail.com>

I work at a hosting company, I would never advice anyone to get a virtual
account,
I can get you a freebsd vps (jail) for around 20USD if you want
and set anything you want up
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:02 AM, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I'm looking for good, bad and ugly experiences with (virtual) hosting
> and colos, in particular ones that have at least heard of PostgreSQL.
>
> I've had good experience with Hurricane Electric, but that was several
> years ago, and not-so-good experience with the cloud hosting at
> Servpath and Amazon EC2.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Cheers,
> David.
> --
> David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
> Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
> Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter at gmail.com
> iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics
>
> Remember to vote!
> Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
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From josh at agliodbs.com  Fri Dec 11 10:07:53 2009
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:07:53 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Hosting/Colo?
In-Reply-To: <200912102133.nBALX3Bs044742@kzsu.stanford.edu>
References: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>
	<200912102133.nBALX3Bs044742@kzsu.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <4B228A79.6040908@agliodbs.com>

Joe,

> I wouldn't have thought postgresql hosting would be a challenge for
> "cloud computing" (or at least, not any more than anything else is).

Performance-related problems.  For some detail:

http://archives.postgresql.org/sfpug/2009-12/msg00009.php

--Josh Berkus


From eruby at knowledgematters.net  Mon Dec 14 12:34:01 2009
From: eruby at knowledgematters.net (Earl Ruby)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:34:01 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Hosting/Colo?
In-Reply-To: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>
References: <20091210190253.GD26598@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <e679484e0912141234y67fcc634i14bdb6e5be31301c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:02 AM, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> I'm looking for good, bad and ugly experiences with (virtual) hosting
> and colos, in particular ones that have at least heard of PostgreSQL.

I've had cabinets with my own servers at HE (Fremont) and at Coloserv
(SF). HE tries to suck people in with cheap cabinets that have a
single 15A circuit. If you're running large database apps you can use
up that 15A really fast, and then they'll gouge you for more power.
After your initial one year contract is up they'll gouge you again and
try to lock you into another 1 year contract at double or triple the
previous year's price, figuring you'll pay rather than move. (I told
them I could get cheaper space at Coloserv than they were offering
under my current terms, and unless they were willing to drop my rent
I'd move. They were unwilling to negotiate, so I packed up and moved.)

Coloserv was a much better deal and I stayed there (with my equipment)
for many years. I never tried their virtual hosting so I can't comment
on that.

For virtual hosting I use SliceHost (http://tinyurl.com/cpmt64) and
they have excellent service. I set up some Puppet scripts to configure
my servers there and I can build a new server and provision/configure
it in minutes. If you want a small one-person mail server or a remote
Nagios monitoring system it?s yours for $20/month. They support
current versions of Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, Arch, CentOS and Gentoo.

I have some telecom services I'm setting up this week where I need to
be able to get a fixed IP address that stays mine for years and I need
to be able to repoint that address at any server I want, so I'm
looking at using Amazon EC2 with Elastic IP Addresses. Unfortunately I
need to run this application on OpenSUSE 11.1 and there are no
OpenSUSE 11.1 images on Amazon EC2, so right now I'm trying to create
my own. If anyone knows of a virtual hosting company that supports
OpenSUSE and gives you virtual control over a fixed IP address I'd be
interested in learning more. (I looked at Linode and they appear to
give you a fixed IP when you set up a server but it sounds like you
can't move that IP to a new server.) Or if anyone has any
good/bad/ugly EC2 experiences to share I'm interested.

-- 
Earl Ruby
http://earlruby.org/

From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Thu Dec 17 11:22:55 2009
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:22:55 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Books and News from the O'Reilly User Group
	Program--December
In-Reply-To: <1261065878.4270.0.620743@post.oreilly.com>
References: <1261065878.4270.0.620743@post.oreilly.com>
Message-ID: <ad28918e0912171122w5938cd7cs2187469bb7bea7b6@mail.gmail.com>

And a reminder, our December social is next Tuesday.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:04 AM
Subject: Books and News from the O'Reilly User Group Program--December
To: fred at redhotpenguin.com



View this information as HTML in your browser, click here:
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social networking sites:

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The gift-giving season is upon us and we want to help you save. From now
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Please pass along any part of this newsletter to your group via email or
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Thanks,

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From fred at redhotpenguin.com  Mon Dec 21 13:39:39 2009
From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:39:39 -0800
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: Reminder: "Perlmongers Dinner" is tomorrow, Tuesday,
	December 	22, 2009 7:00 PM!
In-Reply-To: <719963970.1261429858353.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com>
References: <719963970.1261429858353.JavaMail.root@jobs.meetup.com>
Message-ID: <ad28918e0912211339i22e8be94v2eac5d6fbecd3ba1@mail.gmail.com>

For those of us left in the bay area tomorrow, please join us for the
Holiday Social.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Meetup Reminder <info at meetup.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Subject: Reminder: "Perlmongers Dinner" is tomorrow, Tuesday, December 22,
2009 7:00 PM!
To: fred at redhotpenguin.com


  [image: Meetup]
Meetup Reminder
San Francisco Perl Mongers
   Your group has a Meetup tomorrow!
You RSVPed Yes.
    What

Perlmongers Dinner<http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12060331/t/cr1c_grp/?rv=cr1c>
 When

Tuesday, December 22, 2009 7:00 PM
 Who

5 Yes / 0 Maybe
 Where

Naan-N-Curry
336 O'Farrell Street
San Francisco CA 94102

Update your RSVP<http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12060331/t/cr1c_upd/?rv=cr1c>

Here's what people are saying about this Meetup Group
    *"Fun and learn making. Which is why I went. If that is what you want,
then you should go."*

? Stephen Blum
     *"if you care about perl and/or large-scale web applications, join up!"
*

? Frosty

Learn more about this
Meetup<http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/calendar/12060331/t/cr1c_rt/?rv=cr1c>
    Meetup Description

We'll be having a group dinner for the December meeting, and have
a few drinks after to wrap up the year. The date for this meeting
is December 22th at 7pm.

"Naan-N-Curry" at 336 O'Farrell Street, between Mason and Taylor.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=336+OFarrell+St,+San+Francisco,+CA+94102,+USA

This place has moved around a few times, and has many satellite
locations now, so look at that address carefully. This is across the
street from the Hilton, and next to the entrance to a large parking
garage.

>From the Powell Street Bart station: walk two blocks north along Powell,
and 1.5 blocks west. Don't try to walk up Mason or Taylor, unless
you're in an adventurous mood.

The food is inexpensive, high quality Indian food. They have a buffet
these days, which makes things simpler. Free chai. The dining room
is double-sized, with large tables: there's no need to worry too much
about RSVPs.

http://naancurry.com/branches.php?brn=5

This place used to be 24 hours, but I guess they've scaled back to
11:00 AM to 4:00 AM. But I don't think we'll need to rush out of
there.


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