From Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com  Fri Sep  1 14:42:00 2006
From: Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com (Loo, Peter # PHX)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:42:00 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
In-Reply-To: <20060825170343.GA11427@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61537@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>


Hellow there.

Per Andy's recommendation, I went ahead and had DataTime.pm installed on
our test node.  It turned out that the date calculation is taking
approximately 11 seconds for every 5,000 records.  Is there something a
bit faster?  Here is my code:

  $counter = 0;
  while ( @cur = $sth->fetchrow() ) {
    if ($counter >= 5000) {
      printf(STDERR "$counter - %s", `date`);
      $counter = 0;
      }
    if ($prev[0] == $cur[0] && $prev[1] == $cur[1]) {
      ($pyear, $pmon, $pday) = split('-', $prev[7]);
      ($cyear, $cmon, $cday) = split('-', $cur[2]);
      $prev_cted = DateTime->new( year => $pyear, month => $pmon, day =>
$pday );
      $cur_rxdte = DateTime->new( year => $cyear, month => $cmon, day =>
$cday );
      ###########################################################
      # COMMENTS: Minus current rx_fill_dte with previous cted. #
      ###########################################################
      $dur = $prev_cted->subtract_datetime_absolute($cur_rxdte);
      $p_minus_c = $dur->in_units( 'days' );
      if ($p_minus_c >= 0 || ($p_minus_c < 0 && $p_minus_c <= $cur[5]))
{
        $prev_cted->add( days => $cur[4] );
        $cur[7] = $prev_cted->ymd;
        $cur[6] = "C";
        }
      elsif ($p_minus_c < 0 && $p_minus_c > $cur[5]) {
        $cur_rxdte->add( days => $cur[4] );
        $cur[7] = $cur_rxdte->ymd;
        $cur[6] = "R";
        }
      }
    @prev = @cur;
    $rec = join($delimiter, @cur);
    print PIPE "$rec\n";
    $counter++;
    }

  $sth->finish;
  $dbh->disconnect();
  close(PIPE); 

 
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+peter.loo=source.wolterskluwer.com at pm.org
[mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+peter.loo=source.wolterskluwer.com at pm.or
g] On Behalf Of David Fetter
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:04 AM
To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent

On Fri, Aug 25, 2006 at 11:58:52AM -0500, Andy Lester wrote:
> 
> On Aug 25, 2006, at 11:56 AM, David Fetter wrote:
> 
> > Try Date::Manip from CPAN :)  It's not the fastest date munging 
> > library there, but it's very flexible.
> 
> I'd recommend DateTime as the standard at this point.

Thanks for the update. :)

My information was pretty old.

Cheers,
D
--
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
                              Skype: davidfetter

Remember to vote!
_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


This E-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may contain confidential and privileged information.  Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply E-mail, and
destroy all copies of the original message.

From david at fetter.org  Fri Sep  1 14:59:00 2006
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:59:00 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
In-Reply-To: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61537@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>
References: <20060825170343.GA11427@fetter.org>
	<8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61537@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>
Message-ID: <20060901215900.GT7270@fetter.org>

On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:42:00PM -0700, Loo, Peter # PHX wrote:
> 
> Hellow there.
> 
> Per Andy's recommendation, I went ahead and had DataTime.pm
> installed on our test node.  It turned out that the date calculation
> is taking approximately 11 seconds for every 5,000 records.  Is
> there something a bit faster?  Here is my code:

Are you sure you can't do this with the DBMS's facilities?  It seems
to me that Perl's are what you use when you don't have a DBMS date
library available.  Also, could you explain in english what the code
is supposed to be doing?

Cheers,
D

>   $counter = 0;
>   while ( @cur = $sth->fetchrow() ) {
>     if ($counter >= 5000) {
>       printf(STDERR "$counter - %s", `date`);
>       $counter = 0;
>       }
>     if ($prev[0] == $cur[0] && $prev[1] == $cur[1]) {
>       ($pyear, $pmon, $pday) = split('-', $prev[7]);
>       ($cyear, $cmon, $cday) = split('-', $cur[2]);
>       $prev_cted = DateTime->new( year => $pyear, month => $pmon, day =>
> $pday );
>       $cur_rxdte = DateTime->new( year => $cyear, month => $cmon, day =>
> $cday );
>       ###########################################################
>       # COMMENTS: Minus current rx_fill_dte with previous cted. #
>       ###########################################################
>       $dur = $prev_cted->subtract_datetime_absolute($cur_rxdte);
>       $p_minus_c = $dur->in_units( 'days' );
>       if ($p_minus_c >= 0 || ($p_minus_c < 0 && $p_minus_c <= $cur[5]))
> {
>         $prev_cted->add( days => $cur[4] );
>         $cur[7] = $prev_cted->ymd;
>         $cur[6] = "C";
>         }
>       elsif ($p_minus_c < 0 && $p_minus_c > $cur[5]) {
>         $cur_rxdte->add( days => $cur[4] );
>         $cur[7] = $cur_rxdte->ymd;
>         $cur[6] = "R";
>         }
>       }
>     @prev = @cur;
>     $rec = join($delimiter, @cur);
>     print PIPE "$rec\n";
>     $counter++;
>     }
> 
>   $sth->finish;
>   $dbh->disconnect();
>   close(PIPE); 
> 
>  
> Peter
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+peter.loo=source.wolterskluwer.com at pm.org
> [mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+peter.loo=source.wolterskluwer.com at pm.or
> g] On Behalf Of David Fetter
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:04 AM
> To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
> Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
> 
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2006 at 11:58:52AM -0500, Andy Lester wrote:
> > 
> > On Aug 25, 2006, at 11:56 AM, David Fetter wrote:
> > 
> > > Try Date::Manip from CPAN :)  It's not the fastest date munging 
> > > library there, but it's very flexible.
> > 
> > I'd recommend DateTime as the standard at this point.
> 
> Thanks for the update. :)
> 
> My information was pretty old.
> 
> Cheers,
> D
> --
> David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
> phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
>                               Skype: davidfetter
> 
> Remember to vote!
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> 
> 
> This E-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
> may contain confidential and privileged information.  Any unauthorized
> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not
> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply E-mail, and
> destroy all copies of the original message.
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
                              Skype: davidfetter

Remember to vote!

From Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com  Fri Sep  1 15:13:24 2006
From: Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com (Loo, Peter # PHX)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:13:24 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
In-Reply-To: <20060901215900.GT7270@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61553@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>

Hi David,

The problem is that the database is Netezza.  Although Netezza will be
coming out with its own internal language, equivalent to, PL/SQL, 4GL,
etc..., it is currently not available.

The logic is quite simple really.  First I SELECT the required rows in
the correct sort order.  Then I calculate the dates within the records.
The problem is that when I fetch in a row, I have to compare the date of
the current row to a previous row then add days to the date accordingly.
Also there is a column that contains grace period of which I also need
to compare against the difference of the dates.

Here is the logic in pseudo code:

SELECT statement:
=================

select   distinct x.ptnt_gid, x.prdct_gid, x.rx_fill_dte,
                  x.claim_gid, x.ovrd_days_sply_nbr,
                  x.clfsn_grace_prd_nbr, 'N',
                  x.rx_fill_dte + x.ovrd_days_sply_nbr
from     p_dlvrb_rx_claim_extract x, p_dlvrb_ptnt_list y
where    x.dlvrb_gid = y.dlvrb_gid
and      x.ptnt_gid = y.ptnt_gid
order by x.ptnt_gid, x.prdct_gid, x.rx_fill_dte, x.claim_gid

WHILE loop:
===========
 
while (fetch) {
  if (previous cted - current rx_fill_dte) >= 0 or 
     ((previous cted - current rx_fill_dte) < 0 and 
      (previous cted - current rx_fill_dte) <= current
clfsn_grace_prd_nbr)
  then
    current cted = previous cted + rx_fill_dte
    current class = "C"
  elsif (previous cted - current rx_fill_dte) < 0 and
        (previous cted - current rx_fill_dte) > current
clfsn_grace_prd_nbr
  then
    current cted = rx_fill_dte + ovrd_days_sply_nbr
    current class = "R"
  else
    current cted = rx_fill_dte + ovrd_days_sply_nbr 
    current class = "N"
  fi


 
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+peter.loo=source.wolterskluwer.com at pm.org
[mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+peter.loo=source.wolterskluwer.com at pm.or
g] On Behalf Of David Fetter
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 2:59 PM
To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent

On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:42:00PM -0700, Loo, Peter # PHX wrote:
> 
> Hellow there.
> 
> Per Andy's recommendation, I went ahead and had DataTime.pm installed 
> on our test node.  It turned out that the date calculation is taking 
> approximately 11 seconds for every 5,000 records.  Is there something 
> a bit faster?  Here is my code:

Are you sure you can't do this with the DBMS's facilities?  It seems to
me that Perl's are what you use when you don't have a DBMS date library
available.  Also, could you explain in english what the code is supposed
to be doing?

Cheers,
D


From josh at agliodbs.com  Fri Sep  1 15:19:38 2006
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:19:38 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
In-Reply-To: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61553@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>
References: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61553@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>
Message-ID: <200609011519.38929.josh@agliodbs.com>

Peter,

> The problem is that the database is Netezza.  Although Netezza will be
> coming out with its own internal language, equivalent to, PL/SQL, 4GL,
> etc..., it is currently not available.

But Netezza is based on PostgreSQL, where to_date() is a c-language 
built-in.  Are you telling me that they don't support it?

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

From Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com  Fri Sep  1 15:23:24 2006
From: Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com (Loo, Peter # PHX)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:23:24 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
In-Reply-To: <200609011519.38929.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61559@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>


Josh,

Netezza does support to_date(), but the problem is I need to compare
current row's date to the previous rows date.  I suppose I could do:

select a, b, c, d, e, f, rx_fill_dte - to_date(1980-01-01, 'YYYY-MM-DD')
from some_table where some_conditions; 

Then using the calculated column to do the math.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Berkus [mailto:josh at agliodbs.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 3:20 PM
To: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org
Cc: Loo, Peter # PHX
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent

Peter,

> The problem is that the database is Netezza.  Although Netezza will be

> coming out with its own internal language, equivalent to, PL/SQL, 4GL,

> etc..., it is currently not available.

But Netezza is based on PostgreSQL, where to_date() is a c-language
built-in.  Are you telling me that they don't support it?

--
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco


This E-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may contain confidential and privileged information.  Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply E-mail, and
destroy all copies of the original message.

From josh at agliodbs.com  Fri Sep  1 15:29:02 2006
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:29:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
In-Reply-To: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61559@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>
References: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61559@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>
Message-ID: <200609011529.03258.josh@agliodbs.com>

Peter,

> Netezza does support to_date(), but the problem is I need to compare
> current row's date to the previous rows date.  I suppose I could do:

Previous by date?  That's a SQL problem, not a Perl problem. Albeit an 
really annoying one with a large database.  Can you give us the schema of 
the table?

Too bad Netezza doesn't support custom running aggregates.  You could do 
this easily in mainstream PostgresQL (using PL/perl no less).

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

From Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com  Fri Sep  1 15:31:02 2006
From: Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com (Loo, Peter # PHX)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:31:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
In-Reply-To: <200609011529.03258.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E6155A@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>


                     Table "p_dlvrb_rx_claim_extract"
           Attribute           |     Type      | Modifier | Default
Value 
-------------------------------+---------------+----------+-------------
--
 dlvrb_gid                     | bigint        | not null | 
 drug_gid                      | bigint        | not null | 
 prdct_gid                     | bigint        | not null | 
 prctr_gid                     | bigint        |          | 
 ds_phmcy_gid                  | bigint        | not null | 
 phmcy_zip_cde                 | character(5)  | not null | 
 plan_gid                      | bigint        |          | 
 ptnt_gid                      | bigint        | not null | 
 claim_gid                     | bigint        | not null | 
 rx_fill_dte                   | date          | not null | 
 data_splr_cde                 | character(1)  |          | 
 days_sply_nbr                 | integer       | not null | 
 ovrd_days_sply_nbr            | integer       | not null | 
 drug_imptd_dspnd_mtrc_dec_qty | numeric(10,3) | not null | 
 ptnt_clctd_amt_to_pay_amt     | numeric(11,2) |          | 
 ptnt_co_pay_co_ins_amt        | numeric(9,2)  |          | 
 orgnl_drct_feed_ind           | character(1)  |          | 
 rx_pymt_typ_cde               | character(1)  |          | 
 zero_days_sply_ind            | character(1)  |          | 
 ptnt_hip_brth_yr_nbr          | numeric(4,0)  |          | 
 ptnt_gndr_cde                 | character(1)  |          | 
 study_prdct_ind               | character(1)  |          | 
 sw_prdct_ind                  | character(1)  |          | 
 clfsn_grace_prd_nbr           | numeric(3,0)  |          | 
 lot_grace_prd_nbr             | numeric(3,0)  |          | 
 cohrt_strt_dte                | date          |          | 
 cohrt_end_dte                 | date          |          | 
 extnd_lkbck_strt_dte          | date          |          | 
 lkbck_prd_days_nbr            | numeric(3,0)  |          | 
Distributed on hash: "ptnt_gid" 
 
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Berkus [mailto:josh at agliodbs.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 3:29 PM
To: Loo, Peter # PHX
Cc: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent

Peter,

> Netezza does support to_date(), but the problem is I need to compare 
> current row's date to the previous rows date.  I suppose I could do:

Previous by date?  That's a SQL problem, not a Perl problem. Albeit an
really annoying one with a large database.  Can you give us the schema
of the table?

Too bad Netezza doesn't support custom running aggregates.  You could do
this easily in mainstream PostgresQL (using PL/perl no less).

--
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco


This E-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may contain confidential and privileged information.  Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply E-mail, and
destroy all copies of the original message.

From josh at agliodbs.com  Fri Sep  1 15:50:45 2006
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:50:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
In-Reply-To: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E6155A@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>
References: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E6155A@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>
Message-ID: <200609011550.45559.josh@agliodbs.com>

Peter,

Hmmm ... mind joining us on irc.freenode.net, channel #postgresql?  
Interactive will help with this.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

From spidaman at arachna.com  Fri Sep  1 15:51:11 2006
From: spidaman at arachna.com (spidaman at arachna.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:51:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
In-Reply-To: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61537@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609011545550.8059-100000@mail.arachna.com>

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Loo, Peter # PHX wrote:
>   while ( @cur = $sth->fetchrow() ) {

I think this is a 'DBI best practices' niggling detail.

IIRC, this does a lot of copying, better to define the variables you 
want ("define" meaning use "my" ... you do 'use strict', don't you?) and 
bind the references with $sth->bind_columns(...). Particularly if you 
iterating over a big assed cursor.
-Ian

-- 
Ian Kallen <spidaman _at_ arachna _dot_ com> | Yahoo/AIM: iankallen
             http://www.arachna.com/roller/page/spidaman


From Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com  Fri Sep  1 15:53:28 2006
From: Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com (Loo, Peter # PHX)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:53:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
In-Reply-To: <200609011550.45559.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61573@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>


No, I don't mind at all, but when I go to that link, I am asked to
logon.
 
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Berkus [mailto:josh at agliodbs.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 3:51 PM
To: Loo, Peter # PHX
Cc: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent

Peter,

Hmmm ... mind joining us on irc.freenode.net, channel #postgresql?  
Interactive will help with this.

--
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco


This E-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may contain confidential and privileged information.  Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply E-mail, and
destroy all copies of the original message.

From Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com  Fri Sep  1 15:55:30 2006
From: Peter.Loo at source.wolterskluwer.com (Loo, Peter # PHX)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:55:30 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609011545550.8059-100000@mail.arachna.com>
Message-ID: <8E3D502A002DA04FADBDED4CB4D94D3A01E61575@phxmail02.phx.ndchealth.com>


That is a wonderful idea Ian.  No I did not use strict this time.  I
will change my code to $sth->bind_columns.
 
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+peter.loo=source.wolterskluwer.com at pm.org
[mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+peter.loo=source.wolterskluwer.com at pm.or
g] On Behalf Of spidaman at arachna.com
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 3:51 PM
To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group
Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Perl's to_date() equivalent

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Loo, Peter # PHX wrote:
>   while ( @cur = $sth->fetchrow() ) {

I think this is a 'DBI best practices' niggling detail.

IIRC, this does a lot of copying, better to define the variables you
want ("define" meaning use "my" ... you do 'use strict', don't you?) and
bind the references with $sth->bind_columns(...). Particularly if you
iterating over a big assed cursor.
-Ian

--
Ian Kallen <spidaman _at_ arachna _dot_ com> | Yahoo/AIM: iankallen
             http://www.arachna.com/roller/page/spidaman

_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


This E-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may contain confidential and privileged information.  Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply E-mail, and
destroy all copies of the original message.

From david at fetter.org  Thu Sep  7 18:19:34 2006
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:19:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] SFPUG Meeting: SQL on Streams
Message-ID: <20060908011934.GC7921@fetter.org>

Folks,

Sailesh Krishnamurthi, will be talking about his work on Amalgamated
Insight, a spinoff of the TelegraphCQ project at UC Berkeley.

Queries running this way *actually* run for months or years instead of
just seeming to ;)  You'll discover out why this is a good thing.

Where:
    iParadigms, Inc
    1624 FRANKLIN Street, Suite 818
    Oakland, CA 94612-2823
When:
    Tuesday, September 12, 2006
    7:30pm
RSVP:
    ASAP to david at fetter.org so you can get fed.

Thanks very much to the folks at iParadigms for hosting this meeting.

Cheers,
Dave.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
                              Skype: davidfetter

Remember to vote!

From david at fetter.org  Mon Sep 11 12:47:26 2006
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:47:26 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [REMINDER] SFPUG Meeting: SQL on Streams
In-Reply-To: <20060908011934.GC7921@fetter.org>
References: <20060908011934.GC7921@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <20060911194726.GB21581@fetter.org>

Folks,

Sailesh Krishnamurthi, will be talking about his work on Amalgamated
Insight, a spinoff of the TelegraphCQ project at UC Berkeley.

Queries running this way *actually* run for months or years instead of
just seeming to ;)  You'll discover out why this is a good thing.

Where:
    iParadigms, Inc
    1624 FRANKLIN Street, Suite 818
    Oakland, CA 94612-2823
When:
    Tuesday, September 12, 2006
    7:30pm
RSVP:
    ASAP to david at fetter.org so you can get fed.

Thanks very much to the folks at iParadigms for hosting this meeting.

Cheers,
Dave.
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
                              Skype: davidfetter

Remember to vote!

From qw at sf.pm.org  Tue Sep 19 04:57:12 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 04:57:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star and Perl, one week from today
Message-ID: <20060919115712.GB20059@fu.funkspiel.org>

Next Tuesday is our meeting day.  I have talks planned for October and
November, but September is a social meeting.

So, I'd like to try something a little different:  a visit to Little
Star Pizza in the Haight.  Little Star is supposed to be San
Francisco's answer to Zachary's:  a world-class stuffed/deep-dish pizza
joint.  I went to the PostgreSQL meeting last week
(http://postgresql.meetup.com/1/?gj=sj6) and was reminded how good
Zachary's is.  Let's see how Little Star stacks up.

RSVP:   Not necessary; we'll order based on who shows up.
Date:   Tuesday, September 26
Time:   8:00 pm.
Place:  Little Star Pizza                http://www.littlestarpizza.com/
        846 Divisadero (at McAllister)   http://tinyurl.com/h3p82

   Parking:  The Haight is pretty hard to park in.  If you must drive, you're
   probably better off parking in your favorite garage downtown, then taking
   public transit.  The 5th and Mission Garage is a good bet.

   From BART:  Get off at Civic Center, then go to McAllister and 7th and
   catch the 5 Fulton.  Full details at http://tinyurl.com/qpkb5

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From qw at sf.pm.org  Tue Sep 19 05:07:21 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 05:07:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Upcoming meetings
In-Reply-To: <20060919115712.GB20059@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <20060919115712.GB20059@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <20060919120721.GC20059@fu.funkspiel.org>

On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 04:57:12AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote:
> Next Tuesday is our meeting day.  I have talks planned for October and
> November, but September is a social meeting.

Specifically, here's what's coming up:

October 24:   Jeff Barr of Amazon will talk about their web services API.

November 28:  Steve Fink will speak on "that thing on the floor in
	      the Metreon."  For those who haven't seen it, it's basically
              a video game projected onto the floor; many players can
              run around the "screen" kicking at the projected "objects",
              and the game reacts appropriately.  Wicked cool.

              Turns out it's written in Perl, with XS and OpenGL.
              Steve will give us some juicy technical details.

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From Jeff.Thalhammer at barclaysglobal.com  Tue Sep 19 17:25:23 2006
From: Jeff.Thalhammer at barclaysglobal.com (Thalhammer, Jeffrey BGI SF)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:25:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star and Perl, one week from today
In-Reply-To: <20060919115712.GB20059@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <3A2096A63456DC469D46178CA9F8309F01497A0D@calnte2k035.insidelive.net>

Sweet! Little Star is right around the corner from my house.  IMHO, the
pizza is just as good as Zachary's, and they have some tasty salads too.
MUNI lines 5, 24, and 31 are all nearby.

http://www.littlestarpizza.com/

-Jeff  


-----Original Message-----
From: sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+jeff.thalhammer=barclaysglobal.com at pm.org
[mailto:sanfrancisco-pm-bounces+jeff.thalhammer=barclaysglobal.com at pm.or
g] On Behalf Of Quinn Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:57 AM
To: sanfrancisco-pm at pm.org
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star and Perl, one week from today

Next Tuesday is our meeting day.  I have talks planned for October and
November, but September is a social meeting.

So, I'd like to try something a little different:  a visit to Little
Star Pizza in the Haight.  Little Star is supposed to be San Francisco's
answer to Zachary's:  a world-class stuffed/deep-dish pizza joint.  I
went to the PostgreSQL meeting last week
(http://postgresql.meetup.com/1/?gj=sj6) and was reminded how good
Zachary's is.  Let's see how Little Star stacks up.

RSVP:   Not necessary; we'll order based on who shows up.
Date:   Tuesday, September 26
Time:   8:00 pm.
Place:  Little Star Pizza                http://www.littlestarpizza.com/
        846 Divisadero (at McAllister)   http://tinyurl.com/h3p82

   Parking:  The Haight is pretty hard to park in.  If you must drive,
you're
   probably better off parking in your favorite garage downtown, then
taking
   public transit.  The 5th and Mission Garage is a good bet.

   From BART:  Get off at Civic Center, then go to McAllister and 7th
and
   catch the 5 Fulton.  Full details at http://tinyurl.com/qpkb5

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers =for
information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut
_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm 
 
-- 
 
This message and any attachments are confidential, proprietary, and may be privileged.  If this message was misdirected, Barclays Global Investors (BGI) does not waive any confidentiality or privilege.  If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately and destroy the message without disclosing its contents to anyone.  Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized.  The views and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are the author's own and may not reflect the views and opinions of BGI, unless the author is authorized by BGI to express such views or opinions on its behalf.  All email sent to or from this address is subject to electronic storage and review by BGI.  Although BGI operates anti-virus programs, it does not accept responsibility for any damage whatsoever caused by viruses being passed.



From josh at agliodbs.com  Tue Sep 19 17:30:09 2006
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:30:09 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star and Perl, one week from today
In-Reply-To: <3A2096A63456DC469D46178CA9F8309F01497A0D@calnte2k035.insidelive.net>
References: <3A2096A63456DC469D46178CA9F8309F01497A0D@calnte2k035.insidelive.net>
Message-ID: <200609191730.09474.josh@agliodbs.com>

Quinn,

> Sweet! Little Star is right around the corner from my house.  IMHO, the
> pizza is just as good as Zachary's, and they have some tasty salads too.
> MUNI lines 5, 24, and 31 are all nearby.

Little Star!  I am *so* there.   First round of beer is on me!  (assuming 
12 drinkers or less)

Better make a reservation though.  They're small and get full.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

From david at fetter.org  Tue Sep 19 22:58:30 2006
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:58:30 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star and Perl, one week from today
In-Reply-To: <20060919115712.GB20059@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <20060919115712.GB20059@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <20060920055830.GD20367@fetter.org>

On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 04:57:12AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote:
> Next Tuesday is our meeting day.  I have talks planned for October
> and November, but September is a social meeting.
> 
> So, I'd like to try something a little different:  a visit to Little
> Star Pizza in the Haight.  Little Star is supposed to be San
> Francisco's answer to Zachary's:  a world-class stuffed/deep-dish
> pizza joint.  I went to the PostgreSQL meeting last week
> (http://postgresql.meetup.com/1/?gj=sj6) and was reminded how good
> Zachary's is.  Let's see how Little Star stacks up.

This sounds great :)

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
                              Skype: davidfetter

Remember to vote!

From qw at sf.pm.org  Thu Sep 21 18:58:47 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:58:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star and Perl, one week from today
In-Reply-To: <200609191730.09474.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <3A2096A63456DC469D46178CA9F8309F01497A0D@calnte2k035.insidelive.net>
	<200609191730.09474.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <20060922015847.GA44626@fu.funkspiel.org>

On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 05:30:09PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Quinn,
> 
> > Sweet! Little Star is right around the corner from my house.  IMHO, the
> > pizza is just as good as Zachary's, and they have some tasty salads too.
> > MUNI lines 5, 24, and 31 are all nearby.
> 
> Little Star!  I am *so* there.   First round of beer is on me!  (assuming 
> 12 drinkers or less)
> 
> Better make a reservation though.  They're small and get full.

Unfortunately, they don't take reservations.  However, they said
showing up before 7:00 should greatly increase our chances of getting
a table.

How about a 6:30 meeting?  If that's too early for anyone, sing out
(let's say before Saturday).  I'll post again when the time is firm.

Thanks,

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From rdm at cfcl.com  Thu Sep 21 20:26:35 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:26:35 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] will code (or write) for food...
Message-ID: <p0623095cc1390846ec0f@[192.168.254.205]>

As I am finishing up a contract at Apple (updating the manual
pages for Leopard), I will soon be in a position to take on
other work.  Please let me know if you have know of any
opportunities that might have my name on them.

I am particularly interested in the application and design of
mechanized documentation tools, which can be effective in the
generation and maintenance of detailed interface documentation,
etc.  I am also quite willing, however, to do writing, editing,
course development, programming, etc.

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From boss at gregerhaga.net  Fri Sep 22 03:21:37 2006
From: boss at gregerhaga.net (Greger)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:21:37 +0300
Subject: [sf-perl] will code (or write) for food...
In-Reply-To: <p0623095cc1390846ec0f@[192.168.254.205]>
References: <p0623095cc1390846ec0f@[192.168.254.205]>
Message-ID: <20060922102012.M81233@gregerhaga.net>

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:26:35 -0700, Rich Morin wrote
> As I am finishing up a contract at Apple (updating the manual
> pages for Leopard), I will soon be in a position to take on
> other work.  Please let me know if you have know of any
> opportunities that might have my name on them.
> 
> I am particularly interested in the application and design of
> mechanized documentation tools, which can be effective in the
> generation and maintenance of detailed interface documentation,
> etc.  I am also quite willing, however, to do writing, editing,
> course development, programming, etc.
> 
> -r
> -- 
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841
> 
> Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

Me too, I haven't figured out yet how to get past those blithering
over-educated recruiters*S*.

*grin*
--
QxRSSReader v1.2.6a released (30-06-2006)
PortScanner v1.2.2 ( 09-08-2006 )
http://www.gregerhaga.net/
There are no stupid questions, but there are stupid answers.


From david at fetter.org  Fri Sep 22 09:11:56 2006
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:11:56 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] will code (or write) for food...
In-Reply-To: <20060922102012.M81233@gregerhaga.net>
References: <p0623095cc1390846ec0f@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060922102012.M81233@gregerhaga.net>
Message-ID: <20060922161156.GR3402@fetter.org>

On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 01:21:37PM +0300, Greger wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:26:35 -0700, Rich Morin wrote
> > As I am finishing up a contract at Apple (updating the manual
> > pages for Leopard), I will soon be in a position to take on other
> > work.  Please let me know if you have know of any opportunities
> > that might have my name on them.
> > 
> > I am particularly interested in the application and design of
> > mechanized documentation tools, which can be effective in the
> > generation and maintenance of detailed interface documentation,
> > etc.  I am also quite willing, however, to do writing, editing,
> > course development, programming, etc.
> 
> Me too, I haven't figured out yet how to get past those blithering
> over-educated recruiters*S*.

I know it's a strain, but keeping civil with recruiters, however silly
they may sound, won't hurt you.  Being nasty to them can.

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
                              Skype: davidfetter

Remember to vote!

From ggarchar at zapmap.com  Fri Sep 22 09:14:00 2006
From: ggarchar at zapmap.com (Gary Garchar)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:14:00 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] will code (or write) for food...
In-Reply-To: <20060922102012.M81233@gregerhaga.net>
References: <p0623095cc1390846ec0f@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060922102012.M81233@gregerhaga.net>
Message-ID: <224d3c7285117356848f2e2a54e3f8a4@zapmap.com>

> I haven't figured out yet how to get past those blithering
> over-educated recruiters*S*.

Make them part of your team, or forget entirely.  Focus on what you do 
best and outsource the rest.  Read "Go It Alone" by Bruce Judson:

http://www.brucejudson.com/

The entire book is online.


From cfcl at cfcl.com  Fri Sep 22 21:00:04 2006
From: cfcl at cfcl.com (Rich and Vicki)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:00:04 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Dim Sum planned for Sunday, September 24
Message-ID: <p06230970c13a60418aec@[192.168.254.205]>

Vicki and I haven't done Dim Sum in a while.  We hope you can join us!

    Date:  Sunday, September 24
    Time:  10:15 am. 

N.B. - Doors open at 10:30.  Please try to arrive by 10:15 OR make sure
       we know you are coming!  We will go in and get a table at 10:30.

    Location:

      Hong Kong Flower Lounge			    (650) 692-6666
      51 Millbrae Ave. at El Camino Real
      Millbrae, CA

      3-story pinkish building with a green tile roof
      underground parking garage, street parking

    Directions:

      1+ blocks from the Millbrae BART/Caltrain station (but finding the
      right train is YOUR problem :-)

      From 101, take "Millbrae Ave" exit west to ECR, cross ECR, pass
      restaurant and make a U turn at the next street (or park and walk
back).

      From 280, take "Trousdale Ave" exit east to ECR, turn North on ECR
      and drive about 1/4 mile to Millbrae Ave.  Turn left, pass restaurant
      and make a U turn at the next street (or park and walk back).

http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?BFCat=&Pyt=Tmap&newFL=Use+Address+Below&addr=El+Camino+Real+and+Millbrae+Ave&csz=Millbrae%2C+CA&Country=us&Get%A0Map=Get+Map


P.S.  For those with vegetarian tendencies, we recognize that Dim Sum is not
      generally high in veg. content.  But this place has greens, mushrooms,
      and such AND you can order any dish from the regular menu so you ought
      to be able to find a mixed vegetable plate if you want to be sociable.
-- 
--                             ZZz
Vicki Brown <vlb at cfcl.com>   zZ                        P.O. Box 1269
Rich Morin <rdm at cfcl.com>  zz |\     _,,,---,,_        San Bruno, CA
Bebop, Squirrel,              /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_   94066     USA
Mezzaluna & Raven            |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
http://www.cfcl.com/        '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)     +1-650-873-7842

From qw at sf.pm.org  Mon Sep 25 07:58:42 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:58:42 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star is on, 6:30 Tuesday
In-Reply-To: <20060922015847.GA44626@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <3A2096A63456DC469D46178CA9F8309F01497A0D@calnte2k035.insidelive.net>
	<200609191730.09474.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<20060922015847.GA44626@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <20060925145842.GA79015@fu.funkspiel.org>

On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 06:58:47PM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote:

> [...]

> How about a 6:30 meeting?  If that's too early for anyone, sing out
> (let's say before Saturday).  I'll post again when the time is firm.

All right, there have been no objections, so we'll meet at 6:30.
I've updated the web page (http://sf.pm.org/weblog).

I'll be outside by 6:15 to meet people (wearing my blue Perl Monks
T-shirt).  Please try to arrive at 6:30 or before.  If you arrive
late, we'll try to make room for you, but Little Star has a policy of
giving you a table only big enough for the people who are actually
present.

Thanks, and see you there!

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From rdm at cfcl.com  Mon Sep 25 10:16:54 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:16:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Beer & Scripting SIG reminder
Message-ID: <p06230982c13dbefdbedc@[192.168.254.205]>

The Beer & Scripting SIG (http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass) will
take place Wednesday evening, 8/27.  Be there or be elsewhere!

In case you were wondering, the discussions at BASS gatherings
are not, erm, scripted.  Rather, they reflect the interests of
whatever scripters happen to show up that evening.  One recent
gathering focused on databases (especially PostgreSQL); other
gatherings have discussed the vagaries of doing scripting for
a living, which languages folks like (and why), etc.

Sometimes, folks bring in books that they have recently read,
software that they want to show off, etc.  The informal nature
of the gatherings allows this, as long as it doesn't conflict
with important things like ordering and eating food!


Also note that the calendar of Bay Area Scripting Events is
available and open to submissions (all your BASE are belong
to us :-).

  *  webcal://cfcl.com/pub_dav/BA_Scripting_Groups.ics
  *  http://cfcl.com/pub_dav/BA_Scripting_Groups.ics

and that the list of local scripting groups is online at

  SF Bay Area Scripting Groups
  http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From rdm at cfcl.com  Mon Sep 25 10:28:43 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:28:43 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Beer & Scripting SIG reminder (resend)
Message-ID: <p06230983c13dc2147848@[192.168.254.205]>

[ Fixed the day; botched the month!  Sigh.  -r ]


The Beer & Scripting SIG (http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass) will
take place Wednesday evening, 9/27.  Be there or be elsewhere!

In case you were wondering, the discussions at BASS gatherings
are not, erm, scripted.  Rather, they reflect the interests of
whatever scripters happen to show up that evening.  One recent
gathering focused on databases (especially PostgreSQL); other
gatherings have discussed the vagaries of doing scripting for
a living, which languages folks like (and why), etc.

Sometimes, folks bring in books that they have recently read,
software that they want to show off, etc.  The informal nature
of the gatherings allows this, as long as it doesn't conflict
with important things like ordering and eating food!


Also note that the calendar of Bay Area Scripting Events is
available and open to submissions (all your BASE are belong
to us :-).

  *  webcal://cfcl.com/pub_dav/BA_Scripting_Groups.ics
  *  http://cfcl.com/pub_dav/BA_Scripting_Groups.ics

and that the list of local scripting groups is online at

  SF Bay Area Scripting Groups
  http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From bwalz at paradigm-healthcare.com  Mon Sep 25 11:34:23 2006
From: bwalz at paradigm-healthcare.com (Bill Walz)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:34:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl App Install Location
Message-ID: <1159209263.13929.18.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I am interested in your comments/thoughts about where you install your
custom Perl applications.

I wrote and maintain a Apache2/Mod_Perl2/HTML::Mason web application
that has a large Perl library. The library is also used on/by several
different systems and processes that perform maintenance tasks, data
imports, etc.

Currently the application resides in /local with my Perl library
in /local/site_perl. I use the system installed Perl and add "use lib
qw(/local/site_perl);" to all of my scripts.

I am now thinking about packaging up the library for installation into
Perl's site_perl, i.e. Makefile.PL etc. This would add extra sanity
checks into my release process (module prerequisite checking, etc) and
make the release process more formal than a simple scp/untar.

Besides the addition of having /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.x
directories hanging around what are your thoughts?

Regards,
Bill Walz



From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Mon Sep 25 11:54:38 2006
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:54:38 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl App Install Location
In-Reply-To: <1159209263.13929.18.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1159209263.13929.18.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <70CF8332-753F-459C-AD9C-D98DABE0A20B@highwire.stanford.edu>

My company made this decision the first time we upgraded perl itself  
out from under our custom libraries. Rather than spend the time to  
package our pure-perl stuff up as CPAN-style packages, we just moved  
it out of the local hierarchy and use PERL5LIB for each user that has  
to use it.

That way we can upgrade perl itself without having to reinstall our  
custom code. (And we can have *different* local copies for each  
developer, even though it all runs on a shared server.)

However, we "install" our custom code via shared NFS mounts. If you  
install code to individual machines using local disk, it's probably  
easier to package it up the standard way.

-- Mike Friedman

On Sep 25, 2006, at 11:34 AM, Bill Walz wrote:

> I am interested in your comments/thoughts about where you install your
> custom Perl applications.
>
> I wrote and maintain a Apache2/Mod_Perl2/HTML::Mason web application
> that has a large Perl library. The library is also used on/by several
> different systems and processes that perform maintenance tasks, data
> imports, etc.
>
> Currently the application resides in /local with my Perl library
> in /local/site_perl. I use the system installed Perl and add "use lib
> qw(/local/site_perl);" to all of my scripts.
>
> I am now thinking about packaging up the library for installation into
> Perl's site_perl, i.e. Makefile.PL etc. This would add extra sanity
> checks into my release process (module prerequisite checking, etc) and
> make the release process more formal than a simple scp/untar.
>
> Besides the addition of having /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.x
> directories hanging around what are your thoughts?
>
> Regards,
> Bill Walz
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------



From rdm at cfcl.com  Tue Sep 26 07:23:46 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 07:23:46 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] OT: Electric Vehicle Rally, Palo Alto, 9/30
Message-ID: <p0623090ac13ee7793c1f@[192.168.254.205]>

WHEN

Saturday, September 30, 2006
10:00 AM - 4:00 PM

WHERE

Palo Alto High School
50 Embarcadero Rd
Palo Alto, CA, California 94301

CATEGORY

Social

DESCRIPTION

The Electric Auto Association (EAA) has been organizing
rallies for more than 30 years to help introduce electric
vehicles to the public. The 2006 EV Rally at Palo Alto
High School will include several production electric
vehicles which will be on display for the public (with
some available for test rides) as well as privately owned
electric and other alt fuel vehicles which have been in
regular use in the Bay Area for many years.

http://upcoming.org/event/101726/
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From qw at sf.pm.org  Wed Sep 27 17:14:34 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:14:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star is on, 6:30 Tuesday
In-Reply-To: <20060925145842.GA79015@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <3A2096A63456DC469D46178CA9F8309F01497A0D@calnte2k035.insidelive.net>
	<200609191730.09474.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<20060922015847.GA44626@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060925145842.GA79015@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <20060928001434.GA98550@fu.funkspiel.org>

Report back from last night:  the Little Star trip was a success.  The
deep- dish pizza is excellent:  similar to Zachary's, but a little more
cheese-gooey, a little less dense, and with a lighter, crumblier crust
made of cornbread.  The thin pizza was also very good.  They had a
few good beers on tap, plus a per-glass wine list we didn't try.
My only complaint was that the place was too loud.

My not-so-secret agenda for this meeting was to find out if Zachary's
was worth ordering for future meetings.  It seems the verdict is yes.
They don't deliver, so someone will have to pick them up, but that
looks doable. :)

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From qw at sf.pm.org  Wed Sep 27 17:19:44 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:19:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star is on, 6:30 Tuesday
In-Reply-To: <20060928001434.GA98550@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <3A2096A63456DC469D46178CA9F8309F01497A0D@calnte2k035.insidelive.net>
	<200609191730.09474.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<20060922015847.GA44626@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060925145842.GA79015@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060928001434.GA98550@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <20060928001944.GB98550@fu.funkspiel.org>

On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 05:14:34PM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote:
> Report back from last night:  the Little Star trip was a success.

> [...]

> My not-so-secret agenda for this meeting was to find out if Zachary's

$line =~ s{ Zachary's }{Little Star}smx;

> was worth ordering for future meetings.

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From ds94103 at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 27 18:21:28 2006
From: ds94103 at earthlink.net (David Scott)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:21:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star is on, 6:30 Tuesday
In-Reply-To: <20060928001944.GB98550@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <3A2096A63456DC469D46178CA9F8309F01497A0D@calnte2k035.insidelive.net>	<200609191730.09474.josh@agliodbs.com>	<20060922015847.GA44626@fu.funkspiel.org>	<20060925145842.GA79015@fu.funkspiel.org>	<20060928001434.GA98550@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060928001944.GB98550@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <451B2398.4060904@earthlink.net>

Important to note that Little Star just opened a second location on 
Valencia at 15th in San Francisco.  Parking is still an issue, but it's 
only 2 blocks from Bart.  You won't find them on line; the phone is 
415-551-7827.

David

Quinn Weaver wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 05:14:34PM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote:
>   
>> Report back from last night:  the Little Star trip was a success.
>>     
>
>   
>> [...]
>>     
>
>   
>> My not-so-secret agenda for this meeting was to find out if Zachary's
>>     
>
> $line =~ s{ Zachary's }{Little Star}smx;
>
>   
>> was worth ordering for future meetings.
>>     
>
> --
> qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
> =for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
>
>   


From rdm at cfcl.com  Wed Sep 27 18:47:27 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:47:27 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star is on, 6:30 Tuesday
In-Reply-To: <451B2398.4060904@earthlink.net>
References: <3A2096A63456DC469D46178CA9F8309F01497A0D@calnte2k035.insidelive.net>
	<200609191730.09474.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<20060922015847.GA44626@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060925145842.GA79015@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060928001434.GA98550@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060928001944.GB98550@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<451B2398.4060904@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p0623091cc140da141865@[192.168.254.205]>

At 6:21 PM -0700 9/27/06, David Scott wrote:
> Important to note that Little Star just opened a second location on
> Valencia at 15th in San Francisco.  Parking is still an issue, but it's
> only 2 blocks from Bart.  You won't find them on line; the phone is
> 415-551-7827.

+1
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From bwalz at paradigm-healthcare.com  Thu Sep 28 11:18:50 2006
From: bwalz at paradigm-healthcare.com (Bill Walz)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:18:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Perl App Install Location
In-Reply-To: <70CF8332-753F-459C-AD9C-D98DABE0A20B@highwire.stanford.edu>
References: <1159209263.13929.18.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<70CF8332-753F-459C-AD9C-D98DABE0A20B@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <1159467530.31051.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Thank you for your response.  I just upgraded a development machine from
Fedora Core 4, to Core 5 and after looking in /usr/lib/perl5 I found 7
versions of Perl.

So for the time being I will be keeping the library in its own location.

-Bill

On Mon, 2006-09-25 at 11:54 -0700, Michael Friedman wrote:
> My company made this decision the first time we upgraded perl itself  
> out from under our custom libraries. Rather than spend the time to  
> package our pure-perl stuff up as CPAN-style packages, we just moved  
> it out of the local hierarchy and use PERL5LIB for each user that has  
> to use it.
> 
> That way we can upgrade perl itself without having to reinstall our  
> custom code. (And we can have *different* local copies for each  
> developer, even though it all runs on a shared server.)
> 
> However, we "install" our custom code via shared NFS mounts. If you  
> install code to individual machines using local disk, it's probably  
> easier to package it up the standard way.
> 
> -- Mike Friedman
> 
> On Sep 25, 2006, at 11:34 AM, Bill Walz wrote:
> 
> > I am interested in your comments/thoughts about where you install your
> > custom Perl applications.
> >
> > I wrote and maintain a Apache2/Mod_Perl2/HTML::Mason web application
> > that has a large Perl library. The library is also used on/by several
> > different systems and processes that perform maintenance tasks, data
> > imports, etc.
> >
> > Currently the application resides in /local with my Perl library
> > in /local/site_perl. I use the system installed Perl and add "use lib
> > qw(/local/site_perl);" to all of my scripts.
> >
> > I am now thinking about packaging up the library for installation into
> > Perl's site_perl, i.e. Makefile.PL etc. This would add extra sanity
> > checks into my release process (module prerequisite checking, etc) and
> > make the release process more formal than a simple scp/untar.
> >
> > Besides the addition of having /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.x
> > directories hanging around what are your thoughts?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bill Walz
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
> Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
> FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm


From rdm at cfcl.com  Thu Sep 28 12:08:55 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:08:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
Message-ID: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>

Clues, comments, suggestions?

-r


#!/usr/bin/env perl
#
# parm_test - test parameter passing methods
#
#  Assume that you have a large body of code that was written
#  in Perl 4, using typeglobs to pass arrays and hashes into
#  functions.  You want to kill off this ancient usage, moving
#  to a method that complies with "use strict".  However, code
#  changes take effort and have associated risks.  So, what is
#  the "minimal cost" strategy for achieving your goals?
#
# Written by Rich Morin, rdm at cfcl.com, 2006.09


use warnings;


{
    my (@array, %hash);

    # Testbed:  For each test function, assign some values,
    #           call the function, and print the (possibly
    #           updated) values.

    $array[42]  =  'a_val';
    $hash{'42'} =  'h_val';
    t_tg(\@array, \%hash);      # uses typeglobs
    print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
    print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";

    $array[42]  =  'a_val';
    $hash{'42'} =  'h_val';
    t_ia(\@array, \%hash);      # uses implicit arrows
    print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
    print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";

    $array[42]  =  'a_val';
    $hash{'42'} =  'h_val';
    t_ea(\@array, \%hash);      # uses explicit arrows
    print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
    print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";

    $array[42]  =  'a_val';
    $hash{'42'} =  'h_val';
    t_dr(\@array, \%hash);      # uses dereferencing
    print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
    print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";
}


# t_tg - test use of typeglobs
#
# Use of typeglobs to accept array and hash references is a
# Perl 4 hack.  It does not work under "use strict".
#
sub t_tg {

    (*array, *hash) = @_;

    print "\nt_tg:\n";
    print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
    print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";

    $array[42]  =  'a_tg';      # Modifies passed parameter,
    $hash{'42'} =  'h_tg';      # but fails "use strict".
}


# t_ia - test use of implicit arrows
#
# As I read Programming Perl (3rd. ed), these are equivalent:
#
#   $$arrayref[2]         $$hashref{'x'}
#   $arrayref->[2]        $hashref->{'x'}
#
# So, it should be possible to bring in references as function
# parameters and then treat them as if they were arrays or
# hashes.  And, indeed, it works.  Unfortunately, it does not
# comply with "use strict":
#
#   Variable "@array" is not imported at parm_test line 81.
#   Variable "%hash"  is not imported at parm_test line 82.
#   ...
#
sub t_ia {

    my ($array, $hash) = @_;

    print "\nt_ia:\n";
    print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
    print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";

    $array[42]  =  'a_ia';      # Modifies passed parameter,
    $hash{'42'} =  'h_ia';      # but fails "use strict".
}


use strict;


# t_ea - test use of explicit arrows
#
# Bringing in references and using them with explicit arrow
# notation works and complies with "use strict".  However, it
# requires editing quite a bit of code.
#
sub t_ea {

    my ($array, $hash) = @_;

    print "\nt_ea:\n";
    print "  array:  ", $array->[42],  "\n";
    print "  hash:   ", $hash->{'42'}, "\n";

    $array->[42]  =  'a_ea';    # Modifies passed parameter.
    $hash->{'42'} =  'h_ea';    # Ditto.
}


# t_dr - test use of dereferencing
#
# It's possible to bring in references, then dereference them
# and assign the result to arrays or hashes.  This complies
# with "use strict", but it has two practical limitations.  If
# the data structure is large, the overhead of copying it may
# be unacceptable.  Worse, changes made to the copy will not
# affect the callers' data, so the changed code might not act
# in the same manner as the original code did.
#
sub t_dr {

    my ($r_a, $r_h) = @_;

    my (@array, %hash);

    @array   = @$r_a;
    %hash    = %$r_h;

    print "\nt_dr:\n";
    print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
    print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";

    $array[42]  =  'a_dr';      # Modifies local data.
    $hash{'42'} =  'h_dr';      # ditto
}
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From david at fetter.org  Thu Sep 28 12:18:06 2006
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:18:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
Message-ID: <20060928191806.GF22129@fetter.org>

On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:08:55PM -0700, Rich Morin wrote:
> Clues, comments, suggestions?

Um, what is it that you want the above on?  I generally pass
references into functions, and increasingly just one reference to a
hash (named parameters) per Perl Best Practices. :)

Cheers,
D
> -r
> 
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env perl
> #
> # parm_test - test parameter passing methods
> #
> #  Assume that you have a large body of code that was written
> #  in Perl 4, using typeglobs to pass arrays and hashes into
> #  functions.  You want to kill off this ancient usage, moving
> #  to a method that complies with "use strict".  However, code
> #  changes take effort and have associated risks.  So, what is
> #  the "minimal cost" strategy for achieving your goals?
> #
> # Written by Rich Morin, rdm at cfcl.com, 2006.09
> 
> 
> use warnings;
> 
> 
> {
>     my (@array, %hash);
> 
>     # Testbed:  For each test function, assign some values,
>     #           call the function, and print the (possibly
>     #           updated) values.
> 
>     $array[42]  =  'a_val';
>     $hash{'42'} =  'h_val';
>     t_tg(\@array, \%hash);      # uses typeglobs
>     print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
>     print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";
> 
>     $array[42]  =  'a_val';
>     $hash{'42'} =  'h_val';
>     t_ia(\@array, \%hash);      # uses implicit arrows
>     print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
>     print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";
> 
>     $array[42]  =  'a_val';
>     $hash{'42'} =  'h_val';
>     t_ea(\@array, \%hash);      # uses explicit arrows
>     print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
>     print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";
> 
>     $array[42]  =  'a_val';
>     $hash{'42'} =  'h_val';
>     t_dr(\@array, \%hash);      # uses dereferencing
>     print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
>     print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";
> }
> 
> 
> # t_tg - test use of typeglobs
> #
> # Use of typeglobs to accept array and hash references is a
> # Perl 4 hack.  It does not work under "use strict".
> #
> sub t_tg {
> 
>     (*array, *hash) = @_;
> 
>     print "\nt_tg:\n";
>     print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
>     print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";
> 
>     $array[42]  =  'a_tg';      # Modifies passed parameter,
>     $hash{'42'} =  'h_tg';      # but fails "use strict".
> }
> 
> 
> # t_ia - test use of implicit arrows
> #
> # As I read Programming Perl (3rd. ed), these are equivalent:
> #
> #   $$arrayref[2]         $$hashref{'x'}
> #   $arrayref->[2]        $hashref->{'x'}
> #
> # So, it should be possible to bring in references as function
> # parameters and then treat them as if they were arrays or
> # hashes.  And, indeed, it works.  Unfortunately, it does not
> # comply with "use strict":
> #
> #   Variable "@array" is not imported at parm_test line 81.
> #   Variable "%hash"  is not imported at parm_test line 82.
> #   ...
> #
> sub t_ia {
> 
>     my ($array, $hash) = @_;
> 
>     print "\nt_ia:\n";
>     print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
>     print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";
> 
>     $array[42]  =  'a_ia';      # Modifies passed parameter,
>     $hash{'42'} =  'h_ia';      # but fails "use strict".
> }
> 
> 
> use strict;
> 
> 
> # t_ea - test use of explicit arrows
> #
> # Bringing in references and using them with explicit arrow
> # notation works and complies with "use strict".  However, it
> # requires editing quite a bit of code.
> #
> sub t_ea {
> 
>     my ($array, $hash) = @_;
> 
>     print "\nt_ea:\n";
>     print "  array:  ", $array->[42],  "\n";
>     print "  hash:   ", $hash->{'42'}, "\n";
> 
>     $array->[42]  =  'a_ea';    # Modifies passed parameter.
>     $hash->{'42'} =  'h_ea';    # Ditto.
> }
> 
> 
> # t_dr - test use of dereferencing
> #
> # It's possible to bring in references, then dereference them
> # and assign the result to arrays or hashes.  This complies
> # with "use strict", but it has two practical limitations.  If
> # the data structure is large, the overhead of copying it may
> # be unacceptable.  Worse, changes made to the copy will not
> # affect the callers' data, so the changed code might not act
> # in the same manner as the original code did.
> #
> sub t_dr {
> 
>     my ($r_a, $r_h) = @_;
> 
>     my (@array, %hash);
> 
>     @array   = @$r_a;
>     %hash    = %$r_h;
> 
>     print "\nt_dr:\n";
>     print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
>     print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";
> 
>     $array[42]  =  'a_dr';      # Modifies local data.
>     $hash{'42'} =  'h_dr';      # ditto
> }
> -- 
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841
> 
> Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm

-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
                              Skype: davidfetter

Remember to vote!

From rdm at cfcl.com  Thu Sep 28 13:08:13 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:08:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <20060928191806.GF22129@fetter.org>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060928191806.GF22129@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <p06230906c141da8b6eda@[192.168.254.205]>

> At 12:18 PM -0700 9/28/06, David Fetter wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:08:55PM -0700, Rich Morin wrote:
>>> Clues, comments, suggestions?
>>
>> Um, what is it that you want the above on?  I
>> generally pass references into functions, and
>> increasingly just one reference to a hash (named
>> parameters) per Perl Best Practices. :)

I rather thought this paragraph laid out the objective:

> #  Assume that you have a large body of code that was written
> #  in Perl 4, using typeglobs to pass arrays and hashes into
> #  functions.  You want to kill off this ancient usage, moving
> #  to a method that complies with "use strict".  However, code
> #  changes take effort and have associated risks.  So, what is
> #  the "minimal cost" strategy for achieving your goals?

If the problem were "how should I code something from scratch",
using a single parameter hash might be an appropriate suggestion.
However, if you are tackling a "large body of code", converting
it all to use this technique may not be feasible (let alone safe).

So, what IS the appropriate fix?  My code example shows several
alternatives; is any of them the clear winner?  If so, why?  If
not, what other approach(es) should be considered (and why)?

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From david at fetter.org  Thu Sep 28 16:55:41 2006
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:55:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <p06230906c141da8b6eda@[192.168.254.205]>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060928191806.GF22129@fetter.org>
	<p06230906c141da8b6eda@[192.168.254.205]>
Message-ID: <20060928235541.GN22129@fetter.org>

On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 01:08:13PM -0700, Rich Morin wrote:
> > At 12:18 PM -0700 9/28/06, David Fetter wrote:
> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:08:55PM -0700, Rich Morin wrote:
> >>> Clues, comments, suggestions?
> >>
> >> Um, what is it that you want the above on?  I
> >> generally pass references into functions, and
> >> increasingly just one reference to a hash (named
> >> parameters) per Perl Best Practices. :)
> 
> I rather thought this paragraph laid out the objective:
> 
> > #  Assume that you have a large body of code that was written
> > #  in Perl 4, using typeglobs to pass arrays and hashes into
> > #  functions.  You want to kill off this ancient usage, moving
> > #  to a method that complies with "use strict".  However, code
> > #  changes take effort and have associated risks.  So, what is
> > #  the "minimal cost" strategy for achieving your goals?

D'oh.  My bad.

> If the problem were "how should I code something from scratch",
> using a single parameter hash might be an appropriate suggestion.
> However, if you are tackling a "large body of code", converting it
> all to use this technique may not be feasible (let alone safe).
> 
> So, what IS the appropriate fix?  My code example shows several
> alternatives; is any of them the clear winner?  If so, why?  If not,
> what other approach(es) should be considered (and why)?

At some point, a body of perl4 code is going to need invasive changes
on a large scale, just as C89 or Fortran66 code would.  Those changes
will get larger and more expensive the longer it remains unmaintained.

I wish I had some kind of silver bullet here, but I suspect that
anything short of a rewrite for perl5.8x is going to be more expensive
than just doing the maintenance this code hasn't had.

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter <david at fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
                              Skype: davidfetter

Remember to vote!

From rdm at cfcl.com  Thu Sep 28 17:05:06 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:05:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <20060928235541.GN22129@fetter.org>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060928191806.GF22129@fetter.org>
	<p06230906c141da8b6eda@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060928235541.GN22129@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <p06230913c14212d4a08a@[192.168.254.205]>

At 4:55 PM -0700 9/28/06, David Fetter wrote:
> At some point, a body of perl4 code is going to need
> invasive changes on a large scale, ...

You're preaching to the choir here.  However, the question
at hand has to do with a specific transformation (typeglob
to ???).  Should I infer that you would simply accept the
pain of changing all the *foo's to $foo's and adding "->"
to all the places where $foo is now being used?

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From dick at cfcl.com  Thu Sep 28 17:38:25 2006
From: dick at cfcl.com (Richard Karpinski)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:38:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <p06230913c14212d4a08a@[192.168.254.205]>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060928191806.GF22129@fetter.org>
	<p06230906c141da8b6eda@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060928235541.GN22129@fetter.org>
	<p06230913c14212d4a08a@[192.168.254.205]>
Message-ID: <03E97505-D10B-4AFB-A8F8-F53F2FF5C9FF@cfcl.com>

It would suffice to have a compiler do that for you, would it not?

I have a transformational attribute grammar compiler which could do  
that in a page of code or less. It was a major project of the Tiny  
Basic guy, Tom Pittman, author of  "The  Art of Compiler Design",  
after he got his Ph.D. in CS at Santa Cruz. Want it?

Dick

On 2006, Sep 28, , at 17:05, Rich Morin wrote:

> You're preaching to the choir here.  However, the question
> at hand has to do with a specific transformation (typeglob
> to ???).  Should I infer that you would simply accept the
> pain of changing all the *foo's to $foo's and adding "->"
> to all the places where $foo is now being used?


From rdm at cfcl.com  Thu Sep 28 17:49:17 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:49:17 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <03E97505-D10B-4AFB-A8F8-F53F2FF5C9FF@cfcl.com>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060928191806.GF22129@fetter.org>
	<p06230906c141da8b6eda@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060928235541.GN22129@fetter.org>
	<p06230913c14212d4a08a@[192.168.254.205]>
	<03E97505-D10B-4AFB-A8F8-F53F2FF5C9FF@cfcl.com>
Message-ID: <p06230916c1421c18cc71@[192.168.254.205]>

At 5:38 PM -0700 9/28/06, Richard Karpinski wrote:
> I have a transformational attribute grammar compiler
> which could do that in a page of code or less. ...

Yep, and it could probably be coded up in a page of Perl.
Problem is, introducing changes (whether manually or via
programs) always carries some risk.  How sure am I that:

  *  the new syntax will be functionally equivalent
     in all possible cases (including buggy code that
     currently works only by happenstance :-)

  *  the program won't foul up the editing process,
     putting arrows in places where they don't belong

  *  "use script" will catch anything that's worng

If I'm not _entirely_ sure of these, the conservative
approach is to do minimal changes.

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From qw at sf.pm.org  Thu Sep 28 21:00:14 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:00:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] office chairs
In-Reply-To: <20060530141713.GB59923@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <p06230950c0a17e18e1ed@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060530141713.GB59923@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <20060929040014.GA7781@fu.funkspiel.org>

On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 07:17:13AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote:

> [...]

> While we're on the topic, I am thinking of buying a new desk.
> I tend to switch back and forth between a desktop and a laptop
> for ergonomic reasons.  I think my best bet is to get something
> that lets adjust monitor height instantly (and ideally keyboard
> height too), so what I really need a desk that consists of two
> planes, each of which can be moved up or down easily.
> 
> Does anyone know of such a beast, offhand?

Finally got around to buying one.  I chose the Tradewinds SOHO workstation:

http://www.backdesigns.com/AB1921000Store/product1.asp?SID=1&Product_ID=128

Finding a better price is left as an exercise for the reader (I bought
mine at a brick-and-mortar store after trying out various stuff).

In the original thread, Rich was asking about chairs.  Interestingly,
I found a chair I liked too, but I couldn't justify spending the money
on it:

https://www.backdesigns.com/AB1921000Store/product1.asp?SID=1&Product_ID=51

It looks completely bizarre, but it's very comfortable.  It really
keeps your spine straight and your feet comfortably planted--and, yes,
it is much like riding posture.

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From qw at sf.pm.org  Thu Sep 28 23:10:06 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:10:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
Message-ID: <20060929061005.GB7781@fu.funkspiel.org>

On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:08:55PM -0700, Rich Morin wrote:
> Clues, comments, suggestions?

> [...]

Rich, I have a novel solution to your problem.  It combines the
minimal code changes of the dereferencing approach with the semantics
of references.  Also, it complies with warnings and strictures.

It accomplishes this using aliases, via the CPAN module Data::Alias:

#!/usr/bin/perl

use warnings;
use strict;

use Data::Alias;
use Data::Dumper;

{
    my @array = qw( 1 2 3 );
    my %hash  = (
                    a => 4,
                    b => 5,
                    c => 6,
                );

    print "Values before mutation:\n";
    print Data::Dumper->Dump( [ \@array ], "array" );
    print Data::Dumper->Dump( [ \%hash ],  "hash" );
    print "\n";

    t_alias (\@array, \%hash);

    print "Values after mutation:\n";
    print Data::Dumper->Dump( [ \@array ], [ "array" ]);
    print Data::Dumper->Dump( [ \%hash ],  [ "hash"  ]);
    print "\n";
}

sub t_alias {
    my ($array_ref, $hash_ref) = @_;

    alias my @array = @$array_ref; # Doesn't copy; just aliases.
    alias my %hash  = %$hash_ref;  # ditto

    $array[2] = 'a_dr';      # Modifies original data, not a local copy!
    $hash{c}  = 'h_dr';      # ditto
}

Compare this to your code:

> # t_dr - test use of dereferencing
> #
> # It's possible to bring in references, then dereference them
> # and assign the result to arrays or hashes.  This complies
> # with "use strict", but it has two practical limitations.  If
> # the data structure is large, the overhead of copying it may
> # be unacceptable.

Not a problem if you use aliases. :)

> Worse, changes made to the copy will not
> # affect the callers' data, so the changed code might not act
> # in the same manner as the original code did.

Also not a problem if you use aliases. :)

> #
> sub t_dr {
> 
>     my ($r_a, $r_h) = @_;
> 
>     my (@array, %hash);
> 
>     @array   = @$r_a;
>     %hash    = %$r_h;
> 
>     print "\nt_dr:\n";
>     print "  array:  ", $array[42],  "\n";
>     print "  hash:   ", $hash{'42'}, "\n";
> 
>     $array[42]  =  'a_dr';      # Modifies local data.
>     $hash{'42'} =  'h_dr';      # ditto
> }

I think this solution hits the sweet spot.  It requires that you
modify only the subroutine call

    t_alias (\@array, \%hash); # Use references, not globs.

and the first few lines of the sub:

    sub t_alias {
        my ($array_ref, $hash_ref) = @_;

        alias my @array = @$array_ref; # Doesn't copy; just aliases.
        alias my %hash  = %$hash_ref;  # ditto

From there on out, your sub can use @array and %hash just as if they
had been passed in as globs, including side-effect semantics.  There's
no need to insert arrows for dereferencing or otherwise modify the sub
body.

Does this make sense?

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From rdm at cfcl.com  Fri Sep 29 00:18:45 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:18:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <20060929061005.GB7781@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060929061005.GB7781@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <p0623091ac1426c4995a1@[192.168.254.205]>

At 11:10 PM -0700 9/28/06, Quinn Weaver wrote:
> Rich, I have a novel solution to your problem.  It combines
> the minimal code changes of the dereferencing approach with
> the semantics of references.  Also, it complies with
> warnings and strictures.

My subscription to this list keeps on paying for itself...
Thanks, Quinn (as well as the Man With Too Many Initials :-).


> It requires that you modify only the subroutine call
>
>     t_alias (\@array, \%hash); # Use references, not globs.


I don't see that this requires any change to the calling code.
Although the _receiving_ code no longer uses typeglobs, the
_calling_ code uses the same syntax it did before:

    t_tg(\@array, \%hash);


This is great stuff, Quinn!  Now, before I go dancing in the
streets, are there any caveats about performance, safety, etc?
FWIW, the IMPLEMENTATION and KNOWN ISSUES sections of the docs
are slightly scary, but indicate that this is pretty robust:

  http://search.cpan.org/~xmath/Data-Alias-1.0/lib/Data/Alias.pm

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From qw at sf.pm.org  Fri Sep 29 00:34:22 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:34:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <p0623091ac1426c4995a1@[192.168.254.205]>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060929061005.GB7781@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<p0623091ac1426c4995a1@[192.168.254.205]>
Message-ID: <20060929073422.GA8667@fu.funkspiel.org>

On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 12:18:45AM -0700, Rich Morin wrote:
> At 11:10 PM -0700 9/28/06, Quinn Weaver wrote:
> > Rich, I have a novel solution to your problem.  It combines
> > the minimal code changes of the dereferencing approach with
> > the semantics of references.  Also, it complies with
> > warnings and strictures.
> 
> My subscription to this list keeps on paying for itself...
> Thanks, Quinn (as well as the Man With Too Many Initials :-).
> 
> 
> > It requires that you modify only the subroutine call
> >
> >     t_alias (\@array, \%hash); # Use references, not globs.
> 
> 
> I don't see that this requires any change to the calling code.
> Although the _receiving_ code no longer uses typeglobs, the
> _calling_ code uses the same syntax it did before:
> 
>     t_tg(\@array, \%hash);

Ah.  I was thinking the call looked like this:

      t_tg(*array, *hash);

I guess my Perl 4 skills are rusty. ;)

> This is great stuff, Quinn!

Glad you like it. :)

>  Now, before I go dancing in the
> streets, are there any caveats about performance, safety, etc?

I don't know; I've never used it in the wild.  I just read about it
in _Perl Best Practices_, and your post jogged my memory.  I hope
it helps!

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From qw at sf.pm.org  Fri Sep 29 00:50:50 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:50:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <20060929073422.GA8667@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060929061005.GB7781@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<p0623091ac1426c4995a1@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060929073422.GA8667@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <20060929075050.GA8958@fu.funkspiel.org>

On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 12:34:22AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote:

> [about Data::Alias]

> I just read about it
> in _Perl Best Practices_, and your post jogged my memory.

The use Damian suggests for it, BTW, is for modifying elements in loops:

# Damian's code, not mine
for my $agent_num (0..$#operatives) {
    alias my $agent = $operatives[$agent_num];

    if ($on_disavowed_list{$agent}) {
        $agent = "[DISAVOWED]"; # Changes the copy in @operatives --QDW
    }
}

The larger point he's making is that you should "extract" $agent into an
alias rather than doing something like this:

for my $agent_num (0..$#operatives) {
    if ($on_disavowed_list{$operatives[$agent_num]}) {
        $operatives[$agent_num] = "[DISAVOWED]"; # Too much array subscripting!
    }                                            # Hard to read. --QDW
}

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From qw at sf.pm.org  Fri Sep 29 00:53:17 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:53:17 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <20060929075050.GA8958@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060929061005.GB7781@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<p0623091ac1426c4995a1@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060929073422.GA8667@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060929075050.GA8958@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <20060929075317.GB8958@fu.funkspiel.org>

On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 12:50:50AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 12:34:22AM -0700, Quinn Weaver wrote:
> 
> > [about Data::Alias]
> 
> > I just read about it
> > in _Perl Best Practices_, and your post jogged my memory.
> 
> The use Damian suggests for it, BTW, is for modifying elements in loops:
> 
> # Damian's code, not mine

> [...]

And I am quite glad I looked up that example, because a footnote on that
page says you should use Lexical::Alias instead of Data::Alias if you're
on a Perl older than 5.8.1--which I'm guessing the codebase in question
is. ;)

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From matt at cloudfactory.org  Fri Sep 29 09:24:37 2006
From: matt at cloudfactory.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <p0623091ac1426c4995a1@[192.168.254.205]>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060929061005.GB7781@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<p0623091ac1426c4995a1@[192.168.254.205]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0609290924120.9909@aurora.cloudfactory.org>

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006, Rich Morin wrote:

> At 11:10 PM -0700 9/28/06, Quinn Weaver wrote:
> My subscription to this list keeps on paying for itself...
> Thanks, Quinn (as well as the Man With Too Many Initials :-).

:-)

mdpksl

From rdm at cfcl.com  Fri Sep 29 09:17:43 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:17:43 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <20060929075317.GB8958@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060929061005.GB7781@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<p0623091ac1426c4995a1@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060929073422.GA8667@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060929075050.GA8958@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060929075317.GB8958@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <p06230921c142f667f52d@[192.168.254.205]>

At 12:53 AM -0700 9/29/06, Quinn Weaver wrote:
> And I am quite glad I looked up that example, because a
> footnote on that page says you should use Lexical::Alias
> instead of Data::Alias if you're on a Perl older than
> 5.8.1--which I'm guessing the codebase in question is. ;)

Fortunately, although the codebase is old, it is running
under a recent version of Perl.

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From qw at sf.pm.org  Fri Sep 29 11:42:36 2006
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:42:36 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <p06230916c1421c18cc71@[192.168.254.205]>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060928191806.GF22129@fetter.org>
	<p06230906c141da8b6eda@[192.168.254.205]>
	<20060928235541.GN22129@fetter.org>
	<p06230913c14212d4a08a@[192.168.254.205]>
	<03E97505-D10B-4AFB-A8F8-F53F2FF5C9FF@cfcl.com>
	<p06230916c1421c18cc71@[192.168.254.205]>
Message-ID: <20060929184236.GB15705@fu.funkspiel.org>

On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 05:49:17PM -0700, Rich Morin wrote:
> At 5:38 PM -0700 9/28/06, Richard Karpinski wrote:
> > I have a transformational attribute grammar compiler
> > which could do that in a page of code or less. It was a major
> > project of the Tiny Basic guy, Tom Pittman, author of
> > "The  Art of Compiler Design", after he got his Ph.D.
> > in CS at Santa Cruz. Want it

I for one am interested in this code.  (I'm curious about how it
stands up against PPI and camlp4/ocamllex.)  Where is it?

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From rdm at cfcl.com  Fri Sep 29 14:03:33 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:03:33 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] passing array and hash references
In-Reply-To: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
References: <p06230905c141cb20d1a2@[192.168.254.205]>
Message-ID: <p06230928c1432a9a313b@[192.168.254.205]>

Quinn's Excellent Hack allows us to alias an incoming reference
as either an array or a hash.  However, this begs the question
of whether it can be used to do both at once, as a typeglob can.
For that matter, can a reference be used in two different ways?
So, I wrote a bit more test code. [2]

The executive summary (as I suspected) is that only a typeglob
can be used in two (or more) different ways.  So, if the Perl 4
code is doing this, some Real Surgery (TM) will be required [1]
on both the calling and called code.  And, to ward off David's
expected response, Real Surgery _should_ be done in this case!


My current musings, FWIW, have moved on to the question of how
to mechanically recognize use of typeglob parameters, generate
the aliasing code, etc.

Part of the problem lies in determining whether the reference
needs to be aliased to an array or a hash.  It would be nice
to determine this, based on the uses that the called code makes
of the passed variable, but this may be hard to do in a reliable
fashion.  However, the function call(s) should be fairly simple
(and reliable) to parse.

My suspicion, in any case, is that some human examination and
editing will be required, at least for oddball cases.  However,
given that other manual effort will be needed (e.g., to add "my"
statements), this may not add greatly to the overall workload.

-r


[1] barring another rabbit from Quinn...

[2] here's the code and the output:

===================================================================

% cat pt2a
#!/usr/bin/env perl
#
# pt2a - test parameter passing methods (further)
#
# Written by Rich Morin, rdm at cfcl.com, 2006.09

use warnings;

{
    my (@array, %hash);

    # Testbed:  Assign some values, then call each function
    #           twice (with an arrayref, then with a hashref).

    $foo[42]   =  'a_val';
    $foo{'42'} =  'h_val';

    t_2a(\@foo);  # Pass an arrayref.
    t_2a(\%foo);  # Pass a hashref.
}


# t_2a - bring in a ref, via a typeglob
#
# Given the typeglob *foo, Perl is able to extract and use
# both its array (@foo) and hash (%foo) portions.
#
sub t_2a {

    (*foo) = @_;

    print "\nt_2a:\n";
    print "  array:  ", $foo[42],   "\n";
    print "  hash:   ", $foo{'42'}, "\n";
}


% pt2a

t_2a:
  array:  a_val
  hash:   h_val

t_2a:
  array:  a_val
  hash:   h_val

===================================================================

% cat pt2b
#!/usr/bin/env perl
#
# pt2b - test parameter passing methods (further)
#
# Written by Rich Morin, rdm at cfcl.com, 2006.09

use warnings;

{
    my (@array, %hash);

    # Testbed:  Assign some values, then call each function
    #           twice (with an arrayref, then with a hashref).

    $foo[42]   =  'a_val';
    $foo{'42'} =  'h_val';

    t_2b(\@foo);  # Pass an arrayref.
    t_2b(\%foo);  # Pass a hashref.
}


# t_2b - bring in and use as a reference
#
# The ref approach gets confused when we try this.
#
# sub t_2b {

    my ($foo) = @_;

    print "\nt_2b:\n";
    print "  array:  ", $foo->[42],   "\n";
    print "  hash:   ", $foo->{'42'}, "\n";
}


% pt2b

t_2b:
  array:  a_val
Can't coerce array into hash at pt2b line 34.

===================================================================

% cat pt2c
#!/usr/bin/env perl
#
# pt2c - test parameter passing methods (further)
#
# Written by Rich Morin, rdm at cfcl.com, 2006.09

use warnings;
use Data::Alias;

{
    my (@array, %hash);

    # Testbed:  Assign some values, then call each function
    #           twice (with an arrayref, then with a hashref).

    $foo[42]   =  'a_val';
    $foo{'42'} =  'h_val';

    t_2c(\@foo);  # Pass an arrayref.
    t_2c(\%foo);  # Pass a hashref.
}


# t_2c - bring in a ref, via an alias
#
# The alias approach gets confused when we try this.
#
sub t_2c {

    my ($foo) = @_;

    alias my @foo = @$foo;
    alias my %foo = %$foo;

    print "\nt_2c:\n";
    print "  array:  ", $foo[42],   "\n";
    print "  hash:   ", $foo{'42'}, "\n";
}


% pt2c

Odd number of elements in anonymous hash at pt2c line 35.
Use of uninitialized value in list assignment at pt2c line 35.

t_2c:
  array:  a_val
Use of uninitialized value in print at pt2c line 39.
  hash:
Not an ARRAY reference at pt2c line 34.

===================================================================
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From matt at cloudfactory.org  Fri Sep 29 19:26:11 2006
From: matt at cloudfactory.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:26:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] Dump Perl ? (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0609291925421.9909@aurora.cloudfactory.org>


any takers?

m@
-- 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:43:23 -0700
Subject: Dump Perl ?

Hiya,

Got a function that parses data structures. For debugging and stuff.

How do I find/print the "name" of the data structure?

parseStuff($array_ref, $hash_ref1, $hashref2);

sub parseStuff {
   use Data::Dumper;
   foreach my $structure(@_) {
     print "you're looking at a data structure named [?]\n";
     print "and it looks like: " . Dumper($structure) . "\n";
   }
}

And then I want it to tell me "array_ref" and spew its contents, then 
"hash__ref1", etc., for an arbitrary number of arbitrarily named data 
structures.

TIA,

-Ben

From andy at petdance.com  Fri Sep 29 19:29:01 2006
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:29:01 -0500
Subject: [sf-perl] Dump Perl ? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0609291925421.9909@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0609291925421.9909@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <70CA0A9B-4CB0-4C7F-B98B-96967B50EB41@petdance.com>


On Sep 29, 2006, at 9:26 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote:

> How do I find/print the "name" of the data structure?

http://search.cpan.org/~ovid/Data-Dumper-Names-0.02/
--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From andy at petdance.com  Fri Sep 29 19:29:01 2006
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:29:01 -0500
Subject: [sf-perl] Dump Perl ? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0609291925421.9909@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0609291925421.9909@aurora.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <70CA0A9B-4CB0-4C7F-B98B-96967B50EB41@petdance.com>


On Sep 29, 2006, at 9:26 PM, Matthew Lanier wrote:

> How do I find/print the "name" of the data structure?

http://search.cpan.org/~ovid/Data-Dumper-Names-0.02/
--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From rdm at cfcl.com  Sat Sep 30 11:31:38 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:31:38 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Little Star is on, 6:30 Tuesday
In-Reply-To: <20060928001944.GB98550@fu.funkspiel.org>
References: <3A2096A63456DC469D46178CA9F8309F01497A0D@calnte2k035.insidelive.net>
	<200609191730.09474.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<20060922015847.GA44626@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060925145842.GA79015@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060928001434.GA98550@fu.funkspiel.org>
	<20060928001944.GB98550@fu.funkspiel.org>
Message-ID: <p06230900c144677f8d47@[192.168.254.205]>

V&I visited the Valencia at 15th branch of Little Star on
Thursday.  The pizza was excellent and the venue is a
LOT larger (2.5x ?) and a bit brighter.  Still noisy,
if only because of the booming bass from the "music".

We had thought that parking might be a problem, but we
found a place on 14th, just the other side of Mission.
And, of course, there's excellent BART and Muni access.

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development