From david at fetter.org  Wed Jun  1 15:33:35 2005
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:33:35 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] "Database in Depth", by C.J. Date
In-Reply-To: <p06210218bec2eb261167@[192.168.254.205]>
References: <p06210218bec2eb261167@[192.168.254.205]>
Message-ID: <20050601223335.GB31303@fetter.org>

On Tue, May 31, 2005 at 09:37:21PM -0700, Rich Morin wrote:
> I recently received a copy of
> 
>    "Database in Depth: Relational Theory for Practitioners"
>    C.J. Date, O'Reilly, 2005
> 
> This slim volume looks quite tasty to me (though I'm definitely NOT
> an RDBMS expert).  Perhaps some of the DB wonks on the list should
> take a look and let the rest of us know what they think!

I'd like to see it.

While Date doesn't fill the doctrinaire role in RDBMS theory that RMS
does for FLOSS (Fabian Pascal http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.html does
that ;) he does have some keen insights into what RDBMSs *should* do
according to his view of RDBMS theory.

Because of the initial implementations and hence people's usage
habits, SQL is unlikely ever to implement relational algebra and
relational calculus as originally formulated by E. F. Codd (R.I.P.)
and C. J. Date (the author).  For example, relational algebra, as far
as I can tell, disallows NULLs, which means that any entity which is
now represented as a table with m non-NULLable columns and n NULLable
columns would have to be represented as n+1 tables.

Well, that's my inflation-adjusted $.03 :)

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter david at fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!

From extasia at gmail.com  Thu Jun  9 13:59:03 2005
From: extasia at gmail.com (David Alban)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:59:03 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Constant in here doc?
Message-ID: <4c714a9c05060913595a1f8c57@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

How does one use a constant in a here doc?

  use constant FOO => 42;

  my $heredoc <<"EndOfHereDoc";
    FOO
  EndOfHereDoc

  print $heredoc;

I want the constant's value to be printed.  None of the following
resulted in constant FOO's value being printed.  They all printed
literally what you see:

  +FOO
  FOO()
  +FOO()
  &FOO
  &FOO()
  &{ FOO }
  &{ FOO }()
  main::FOO
  +main::FOO
  main::FOO()
  &main::FOO
  &main::FOO()
  +&main::FOO()
  &{ main::FOO }
  &{ main::FOO }()
  +&{ main::FOO }()
  *FOO
  *main::FOO

I know I could assign FOO's value to a variable and then include the
variable in the here doc.  That's probably what I'll end up
(grudgingly) doing.

But darn it to heck!  I want to use a constant, not a variable!

Am I outta luck here?

Thanks,
David
-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From david at fetter.org  Thu Jun  9 14:02:35 2005
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:02:35 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Constant in here doc?
In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c05060913595a1f8c57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c714a9c05060913595a1f8c57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050609210235.GB12102@fetter.org>

On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 01:59:03PM -0700, David Alban wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> How does one use a constant in a here doc?
> 
>   use constant FOO => 42;
> 
>   my $heredoc <<"EndOfHereDoc";
>     FOO
>   EndOfHereDoc
> 
>   print $heredoc;

You wanted @{[FOO]}

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter david at fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!

From extasia at gmail.com  Thu Jun  9 14:11:16 2005
From: extasia at gmail.com (David Alban)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:11:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Constant in here doc?
In-Reply-To: <20050609210235.GB12102@fetter.org>
References: <4c714a9c05060913595a1f8c57@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050609210235.GB12102@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <4c714a9c05060914116380dc33@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, sir!

It's one of those things that makes sense now that I see it, but could
never have pulled out of my...

On 6/9/05, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> You wanted @{[FOO]}

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From david at fetter.org  Thu Jun  9 14:13:33 2005
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:13:33 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Constant in here doc?
In-Reply-To: <4c714a9c05060914116380dc33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c714a9c05060913595a1f8c57@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050609210235.GB12102@fetter.org>
	<4c714a9c05060914116380dc33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050609211333.GC12102@fetter.org>

On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 02:11:16PM -0700, David Alban wrote:
> Thank you, sir!
> 
> It's one of those things that makes sense now that I see it, but
> could never have pulled out of my...
> 
> On 6/9/05, David Fetter <david at fetter.org> wrote:
> > You wanted @{[FOO]}

You did all the hard work by eliminating every other possibility :)

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter david at fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!

From blakem-sfpug at blakem.com  Fri Jun 10 01:58:26 2005
From: blakem-sfpug at blakem.com (Blake D. Mills IV)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:58:26 -0400
Subject: [sf-perl] Constant in here doc?
In-Reply-To: <20050609210235.GB12102@fetter.org>;
	from david@fetter.org on Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 02:02:35PM -0700
References: <4c714a9c05060913595a1f8c57@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050609210235.GB12102@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <20050610045826.A4045@cobalt.blakem.com>

> > How does one use a constant in a here doc?
> You wanted @{[FOO]}

If you're golfing, there is also the one character shorter:
  ${\FOO}

-Blake

From extasia at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 07:31:22 2005
From: extasia at gmail.com (David Alban)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:31:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Constant in here doc?
In-Reply-To: <20050610045826.A4045@cobalt.blakem.com>
References: <4c714a9c05060913595a1f8c57@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050609210235.GB12102@fetter.org>
	<20050610045826.A4045@cobalt.blakem.com>
Message-ID: <4c714a9c0506100731169f32cc@mail.gmail.com>

<mr_burns>
Excellent...
</mr_burns>

Muchos thankos.

On 6/10/05, Blake D. Mills IV <blakem-sfpug at blakem.com> wrote:
> If you're golfing, there is also the one character shorter:
>   ${\FOO}

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.

From josh at agliodbs.com  Fri Jun 10 09:36:51 2005
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:36:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Happy fun sorting problem
Message-ID: <200506100936.51100.josh@agliodbs.com>

Folks,

I can think of a few ways to solve this issue, but none that are elegant.  I'm 
looking for elegant.

I have a 3-level heirarchy:

Category
	Sub Category
		Item = Value

I want to print output that formats like:

Category-1
	Sub Category-H
		Item_a = Value
		Item_f = Value
	Sub Category-S
		Item_d = Value
Category-2
	Sub Category-B
		Item_k = Value
...etc...

The idea being to group by sorted category, then by sorted subcategory, then 
sort the items on their keys within that.  The Items happen to be unique, but 
I'm not sure that makes a difference to the problem.  To further complicate 
things, the "Category" level is being sorted according to an external 
ordering list and not alphabetically.

Inside a database, I would just query and sort.   But this is completely in 
perl.   What's the standard way of dealing with this?  Hashes of hashes?

-- 
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

From david at fetter.org  Fri Jun 10 09:51:03 2005
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:51:03 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Happy fun sorting problem
In-Reply-To: <200506100936.51100.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <200506100936.51100.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <20050610165103.GC14617@fetter.org>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 09:36:51AM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> I can think of a few ways to solve this issue, but none that are elegant.  I'm 
> looking for elegant.
> 
> I have a 3-level heirarchy:
> 
> Category
> 	Sub Category
> 		Item = Value
> 
> I want to print output that formats like:
> 
> Category-1
> 	Sub Category-H
> 		Item_a = Value
> 		Item_f = Value
> 	Sub Category-S
> 		Item_d = Value
> Category-2
> 	Sub Category-B
> 		Item_k = Value
> ...etc...
> 
> The idea being to group by sorted category, then by sorted subcategory, then 
> sort the items on their keys within that.  The Items happen to be unique, but 
> I'm not sure that makes a difference to the problem.  To further complicate 
> things, the "Category" level is being sorted according to an external 
> ordering list and not alphabetically.
> 
> Inside a database, I would just query and sort.   But this is
> completely in perl.   What's the standard way of dealing with this?
> Hashes of hashes?

perldoc perlfaq4 goes into this in detail :)

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter david at fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!

From chris at noncombatant.org  Fri Jun 10 13:07:46 2005
From: chris at noncombatant.org (Chris Palmer)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:07:46 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Happy fun sorting problem
In-Reply-To: <20050610165103.GC14617@fetter.org>
References: <200506100936.51100.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<20050610165103.GC14617@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <20050610200746.GG19909@nodewarrior.org>

David Fetter writes:

> > To further complicate things, the "Category" level is being sorted
> > according to an external ordering list and not alphabetically.
> 
> perldoc perlfaq4 goes into this in detail :)

Thanks for the pointer, David; I hadn't seen that one before.

It gives the answer I was going to give:

    @sorted = sort { field1($a) <=> field1($b) ||
                     field2($a) cmp field2($b) ||
                     field3($a) cmp field3($b)
                    }     @data;

which I find quite elegant. In Josh's case, he'll want to use the
literal Subcategory and Item values in the cmp/<=> expressions, instead
of fieldX functions. For the Category sorting, which he notes is ordered
according to an external list, I would replace the first compare
statement in the above with:

    %category_order = (foo => 1, bar => 2, ...);
    ...
    @sorted = sort {
        $category_order{$ctgry_a} <=> $category_order{$ctgry_b} ||
        other comparisons ... } @data;


From moseley at hank.org  Fri Jun 10 14:34:58 2005
From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:34:58 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Happy fun sorting problem
In-Reply-To: <200506100936.51100.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <200506100936.51100.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <20050610213458.GA27501@hank.org>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 09:36:51AM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> I can think of a few ways to solve this issue, but none that are elegant.  I'm 
> looking for elegant.
> 
> I have a 3-level heirarchy:
> 
> Category
> 	Sub Category
> 		Item = Value
> 
> I want to print output that formats like:
> 
> Category-1
> 	Sub Category-H
> 		Item_a = Value
> 		Item_f = Value
> 	Sub Category-S
> 		Item_d = Value
> Category-2
> 	Sub Category-B
> 		Item_k = Value
> ...etc...

here's some very old code I used in a project once.  It builds a single string sort key
for fast sorting.  Not sure what all the hash lookups are, but you can
use your imagination.  I think I'm missing some bounds checking,
too...

        for my $sortby ( @sortby ) {

            my $reverse = $sortby eq lc $sortby;
            my $key;
            my $numeric;



            for ( lc $sortby ) {

                # General text
                if ( $strings{$_} ) {
                    $key = lc $student->{ $strings{$_} };
                    last;
                }

                /date/ && do {
                    $key = $student->{S_UNIX_REGISTER_TIME} || 0;
                    $numeric++;
                    last;
                };

                /status/ && do {
                    $key = $status_sort[$student->{S_STATUS_CODE}];
                    $numeric++;
                    last;
                };

                # here's the default

                $key = lc "$student->{LAST_NAME}$student->{FIRST_NAME}";

            }

            if ( $numeric ) {
                $key = $key ^ ( 1 << 31 );  # bias to unsigned
                $sort_key .= pack 'N', $reverse
                                   ? $key ^ 0xffffffff
                                   : $key;
            } else {
                $key ^= "\xFF" x 150 if $reverse;
                $sort_key .= "$key\0";
            }
        }

        $sort_hash{$student} = $sort_key;
    }

    return [ sort { $sort_hash{$a} cmp $sort_hash{$b} } @{$students} ];
}


-- 
Bill Moseley
moseley at hank.org


From Weng.Lee at mscibarra.com  Fri Jun 10 09:54:09 2005
From: Weng.Lee at mscibarra.com (Lee, Weng (MSCIBARRA))
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:54:09 -0400
Subject: [sf-perl] Happy fun sorting problem
Message-ID: <1F13F70618861C47A18605D2841AEA7F02EA4D7C@NYWEXMB09.msad.ms.com>

 


>I can think of a few ways to solve this issue, but none that are
elegant.  I'm looking for elegant.
>But this is completely in perl. What's the standard way of dealing with
this?  Hashes of hashes?
If there is a standard way of dealing with anything in Perl, that
wouldn't be Perl,right?
One dirty way I find myself always doing in such situation is to
concatenate the Categories and Keys to form a new Key.
Then sorting will be simple for me.  


>To further complicate things, the "Category" level is being sorted
according to an external ordering list and not alphabetically.
To handle this, I would translate 'Category' level to a number
corresponding to the external ordering list when constructing the key.
To get retrieve the information, I would parse out the concatenated key,
and translate the 'category' level from the ordering number to its'
original form.





I have a 3-level heirarchy:

Category
	Sub Category
		Item = Value

I want to print output that formats like:

Category-1
	Sub Category-H
		Item_a = Value
		Item_f = Value
	Sub Category-S
		Item_d = Value
Category-2
	Sub Category-B
		Item_k = Value
...etc...

The idea being to group by sorted category, then by sorted subcategory,
then sort the items on their keys within that.  The Items happen to be
unique, but I'm not sure that makes a difference to the problem.  

Inside a database, I would just query and sort.   

--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
_______________________________________________
SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm 
--------------------------------------------------------
 
NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender.  Sender does not waive confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited. 
 

From Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com  Fri Jun 10 16:46:09 2005
From: Paul.Makepeace at realprogrammers.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:46:09 +0100
Subject: [sf-perl] Happy fun sorting problem
In-Reply-To: <200506100936.51100.josh@agliodbs.com>
References: <200506100936.51100.josh@agliodbs.com>
Message-ID: <20050610234608.GB21429@mythix.realprogrammers.com>

Je 2005-06-10 17:36:51 +0100, Josh Berkus skribis:
> Inside a database, I would just query and sort.

<off-the-wall>
Dump it into sqlite, query, and sort :)
</>

Paul

-- 
Paul Makepeace .............................. http://paulm.com/inchoate/

"If your name was gomi, then it's going to be a bumpy night!"
   -- http://paulm.com/toys/surrealism/

From david at fetter.org  Sun Jun 12 12:57:47 2005
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 12:57:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] XML <-> SQL with Chris Mungall
Message-ID: <20050612195747.GG20424@fetter.org>

Perpetual Entertainment is proud to host the SF Perl Users' Group.

http://sf.pm.org/weblog/archives/00000027.html

This  month,  Chris Mungall, author of such modules as Data-Stag, will
give a talk on XML <-> SQL Mapping Tools.

If you plan to attend, RSVP ASAP to dfetter at perpetual.com because

1. Security will need your name in order to let you in.
2. I need to know how much pizza to order.
3. It's nice to be considerate and help with capacity planning.

Date: Tuesday, June 28th

Time: 8:00pm

Place: Perpetual Entertainment
149 New Montgomery Street
5th Floor
San Francisco

Parking  in  downtown San Francisco around 8:00pm is doable, but leave
yourself  some  time.  You're  probably  best off arriving via BART to
Montgomery  station.  Caltrain  is  not  recommended, as they have two
trains running south between 10:00 and midnight.

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter david at fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!

From josh at agliodbs.com  Mon Jun 13 11:13:12 2005
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:13:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Happy fun sorting problem
In-Reply-To: <20050610234608.GB21429@mythix.realprogrammers.com>
References: <200506100936.51100.josh@agliodbs.com>
	<20050610234608.GB21429@mythix.realprogrammers.com>
Message-ID: <200506131113.13064.josh@agliodbs.com>

Paul,

> Dump it into sqlite, query, and sort :):)

;-) given that this is a setup utility for PostgreSQL, I don't think that's 
exactly feasable.   I'll use sort().

-- 
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

From josh at agliodbs.com  Mon Jun 20 17:19:04 2005
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:19:04 -0600
Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: [pgsql-jobs] PostgreSQL/Perl web application
	development position
Message-ID: <200506201719.04787.josh@agliodbs.com>

Job available:

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: [pgsql-jobs] PostgreSQL/Perl web application development position
Date: Friday 17 June 2005 10:30
From: End Point Corporation <jobs at endpoint.com>
To: pgsql-jobs at postgresql.org

Growing consulting company End Point Corporation seeks a PostgreSQL
expert with solid Perl experience to develop web applications with
extensive business logic at the database layer. Interested in individuals
experienced with complex SQL queries, PL/pgSQL or PL/Perl functions,
and rules, triggers, and views. Web application development experience
required. Exposure to the Interchange application server is a plus,
and willingness to learn it a necessity.

Our developers interact directly with our clients via telephone and email
on a regular basis, so verbal and written communication skills need to
be excellent. Good candidates pay attention to detail, are careful with
production systems, and code defensively to provide good stability and
maintainability of mission-critical systems.

This is a full-time salaried position. Employees work either at our
office in Manhattan, New York, or from home offices, and must live in
the 48 contiguous United States and have US citizenship.

Principals only, please. Apply by emailing jobs at endpoint.com with details
about your experience. Thank you.

--
Jon Jensen
End Point Corporation
http://www.endpoint.com/

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?

               http://archives.postgresql.org

-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
__Aglio Database Solutions_______________
Josh Berkus		       Consultant
josh at agliodbs.com	 www.agliodbs.com
Ph: 415-752-2500	Fax: 415-752-2387
2166 Hayes Suite 200	San Francisco, CA

From david at fetter.org  Tue Jun 21 15:27:52 2005
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:27:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] XML <-> SQL with Chris Mungall
Message-ID: <20050621222752.GA27931@fetter.org>

Folks,

Just a reminder, it's T minus 1 week, 4 hours 26 minutes until Chris
Mungall starts imparting his wisdom at Perpetual.  Details below.

http://sf.pm.org/weblog/archives/00000027.html

If you plan to attend and haven't yet R'ed, RSVP to
dfetter at perpetual.com

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter david at fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!

From matt at cloudfactory.org  Mon Jun 27 16:17:36 2005
From: matt at cloudfactory.org (Matthew Lanier)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:17:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Danger is hiring perl folk
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506271615530.1666-100000@cumulonimbus.cloudfactory.org>


hey folks.

danger is hiring perl folk again.  if you are interested, please follow
the contact info below.

please don't let this turn into a thread bashing interviewing tactics as
it did last time.

thanks-

m@

   Server Software Engineer - PDM

    Danger's Service Engineering group is seeking a talented software
    engineer to work on the high-visibility Premium Download Manager
    (PDM) service. The ideal candidate will possess strong server
    programming and software design skills and the ability to gracefully
    handle a dynamic, fast-paced development environment.

   Responsibilities

     * Work with other members of the Service Engineering group to extend
       and improve the Premium Download Manager
     * Create and enhance APIs and interfaces to the PDM for internal and
       external customers
     * Monitor operation of production servers and address problems in a
       timely manner should they arise.
     * Work closely with QA and Operations groups during each release
       lifecycle.
     * Design new capabilities or re-design existing ones as needed.
     * Document and test all work.

   Qualifications

     * Strong, demonstrable programming skills in Perl and either
       Java or C++
     * Experience in architecture and implementation of servers for
       web-based applications
     * Experience debugging distributed large-scale systems
     * Experience with databases.  Oracle is a plus.
     * Excellent written and verbal communication skills, as this position
       involves considerable interaction with non-engineers
     * Desire and ability to work in a fast-paced environment
     * Prior experience with finance, catalog, or billing systems is a huge
       plus

   Benefits

     * Stock Options
     * Health and Dental Plans
     * 401(k)

   Please send your resume and a cover letter describing your background to
   jobs at danger.com

   Principals only. Direct-hire only; no contractors at this time.


From josh at agliodbs.com  Mon Jun 27 16:27:54 2005
From: josh at agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:27:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Danger is hiring perl folk
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506271615530.1666-100000@cumulonimbus.cloudfactory.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506271615530.1666-100000@cumulonimbus.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <200506271627.55006.josh@agliodbs.com>

Matt,

> please don't let this turn into a thread bashing interviewing tactics as
> it did last time.

Boy howdy, you know how to tempt people, dontcha?

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

From david at fetter.org  Mon Jun 27 16:47:41 2005
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:47:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] Reminder: XML <-> SQL at Perpetual
Message-ID: <20050627234741.GB4689@fetter.org>

Folks,

There's just a little over a day until Perpetual first hosts SF Perl
Users Group.

Day:    Tuesday, June 28th
Time:   8:00pm
Place:  Perpetual Entertainment
        149 New Montgomery Street, 5th Floor
        San Francisco, CA 94105

Details: http://sf.pm.org/weblog/archives/00000027.html

RSVP ASAP if you haven't already, as I need to give security your name
for them to let you in.

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter david at fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!

From david at fetter.org  Mon Jun 27 18:01:34 2005
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:01:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Danger is hiring perl folk
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506271615530.1666-100000@cumulonimbus.cloudfactory.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506271615530.1666-100000@cumulonimbus.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <20050628010134.GC4689@fetter.org>

On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 04:17:36PM -0700, Matthew Lanier wrote:
> 
> hey folks.
> 
> danger is hiring perl folk again.  if you are interested, please
> follow the contact info below.
> 
> please don't let this turn into a thread bashing interviewing
> tactics as it did last time.

Hey, if their interviewing tactics haven't changed, people need to
know.  If they have, people need to know how and why this happened so
they can walk in fresh.  All the same reasoning applies, no matter
what year or company it is :)

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter david at fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!

From the_shift8 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 27 18:23:01 2005
From: the_shift8 at yahoo.com (shift8)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:23:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Danger is hiring perl folk
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506271615530.1666-100000@cumulonimbus.cloudfactory.org>
Message-ID: <20050628012301.47894.qmail@web20326.mail.yahoo.com>

...and for the record,  my statements were "know your java" and "don't be
late".

i think that was more to do with peeps general frustrations w/ most interview
processes, rather then a reflection on danger, inc.

-star, chief perl lurker

--- Matthew Lanier <matt at cloudfactory.org> wrote:

> 
> hey folks.
> 
> danger is hiring perl folk again.  if you are interested, please follow
> the contact info below.
> 
> please don't let this turn into a thread bashing interviewing tactics as
> it did last time.
> 
> thanks-
> 
> m@
> 
>    Server Software Engineer - PDM
> 
>     Danger's Service Engineering group is seeking a talented software
>     engineer to work on the high-visibility Premium Download Manager
>     (PDM) service. The ideal candidate will possess strong server
>     programming and software design skills and the ability to gracefully
>     handle a dynamic, fast-paced development environment.
> 
>    Responsibilities
> 
>      * Work with other members of the Service Engineering group to extend
>        and improve the Premium Download Manager
>      * Create and enhance APIs and interfaces to the PDM for internal and
>        external customers
>      * Monitor operation of production servers and address problems in a
>        timely manner should they arise.
>      * Work closely with QA and Operations groups during each release
>        lifecycle.
>      * Design new capabilities or re-design existing ones as needed.
>      * Document and test all work.
> 
>    Qualifications
> 
>      * Strong, demonstrable programming skills in Perl and either
>        Java or C++
>      * Experience in architecture and implementation of servers for
>        web-based applications
>      * Experience debugging distributed large-scale systems
>      * Experience with databases.  Oracle is a plus.
>      * Excellent written and verbal communication skills, as this position
>        involves considerable interaction with non-engineers
>      * Desire and ability to work in a fast-paced environment
>      * Prior experience with finance, catalog, or billing systems is a huge
>        plus
> 
>    Benefits
> 
>      * Stock Options
>      * Health and Dental Plans
>      * 401(k)
> 
>    Please send your resume and a cover letter describing your background to
>    jobs at danger.com
> 
>    Principals only. Direct-hire only; no contractors at this time.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SanFrancisco-pm mailing list
> SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm
> 



		
____________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! Sports 
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football 
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com

From david at fetter.org  Mon Jun 27 19:58:17 2005
From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:58:17 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Danger is hiring perl folk
In-Reply-To: <20050628012301.47894.qmail@web20326.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506271615530.1666-100000@cumulonimbus.cloudfactory.org>
	<20050628012301.47894.qmail@web20326.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050628025817.GD4689@fetter.org>

On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 06:23:01PM -0700, shift8 wrote:
> ...and for the record,  my statements were "know your java" and
> "don't be late".
> 
> i think that was more to do with peeps general frustrations w/ most
> interview processes, rather then a reflection on danger, inc.

With all due respect, the interview process I discussed in detail but
did not name at that time was Danger's.  That interview process, and
what it implied about the general level of cluefulness over there was
so egregious that I could not then, and cannot now, recommend
anybody's applying to any outfit that had a similar one.

If that process has changed, i.e. if the person who was in charge of
it has left, that being MHO of what it would take to change that
process, I'd be delighted to know it.  If it has *not* changed, well,
check your archives.

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter david at fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!

From qw at sf.pm.org  Mon Jun 27 20:30:46 2005
From: qw at sf.pm.org (Quinn Weaver)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:30:46 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] [job] Danger is hiring perl folk
In-Reply-To: <20050628025817.GD4689@fetter.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506271615530.1666-100000@cumulonimbus.cloudfactory.org>
	<20050628012301.47894.qmail@web20326.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20050628025817.GD4689@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <20050628033046.GE33183@cfcl.com>

On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 07:58:17PM -0700, David Fetter wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 06:23:01PM -0700, shift8 wrote:
> > ...and for the record,  my statements were "know your java" and
> > "don't be late".

> > [...]

> [...]

> If it has *not* changed, well, check your archives.

And, please, let's keep that discussion there.  Thanks, everyone.

--
qw (Quinn Weaver); #President, San Francisco Perl Mongers
=for information, visit http://sf.pm.org/weblog =cut

From rdm at cfcl.com  Mon Jun 27 21:06:58 2005
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:06:58 -0700
Subject: [sf-perl] XML <-> SQL with Chris Mungall
In-Reply-To: <20050612195747.GG20424@fetter.org>
References: <20050612195747.GG20424@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <p06210200bedb9c16627f@[192.168.254.205]>

Executive Summary

   Transliterating from SQL into XML (and back again) is useful, if only because
   it allows SQL databases to be serialized, saved, reloaded, etc.  Translating
   SQL into idiomatic XML (or vice versa) is a much harder nut to 
crack, but it's
   also more interesting, at least to me.

   My intuition is that many data structure formats (e.g., GXL, RDBMS 
tables, RDF,
   XML, YAML) are "equivalent" in the manner that assorted computer 
languages are
   (i.e., "Turing equivalent").  That said, transforming from idiomatic RDBMS to
   idiomatic XML is going to be about as easy as transforming from 
idiomatic Lisp
   to idiomatic Fortran.  Nonetheless, that is the problem we increasingly face.

Background

I've imported SQL, XML, and assorted other formats into a Perl/YAML-based model
(i.e., hashes, lists, and references).  My take is that each input format has
its own "idioms", including:

   *  XML is structured as a "list of lists", where each node may have an
      attached hash.  More specifically, any given node type may have a
      number of defining characteristics, including:

      +  list arity limits (e.g., min, max)

         Common list arities include

           N == 0 (empty node)
           N >= 0 (optional list)
           N >= 1 (non-empty list)

      +  assorted list constraints

         Is the order significant, or is this just a set?  Will there be raw
         text mixed in with tagged nodes, at the same level?  Will there be
         significant intervening white space between tagged nodes?  Etc.

      +  hash limits

         Certain keys may be required.

  *  RDBMS tables can be modeled as sets of hashes:

        (A, B, C):  (I, A), (I, B), (I, C)

     In fact, there's a DBMS that exploits this fact.  That said,
     the SELECT statement can do things with tables that require
     quite a bit of Perl to simulate (e.g., compound keys, joins).

     I strongly suspect that there are SQL "idioms" that use tables
     in characteristic ways.  In fact, I've asked in the past for
     suggestions, but I'm still waiting for responses.

I suspect that it should be possible to do mechanized conversions of data
structures in one of two ways:

  *  Compile down to some "atomic" form (e.g., RDF tuples, as used in TAP
     - tap.stanford.edu), then "decompile" back into a "higher-order" form.

  *  Encode the data structure as a set of idioms, then perform idiom-to-
     idiom transformations to the target representation.

Of course, I don't know how to DO any of this, but it doesn't hurt (much)
to think about the problem.  Anyway, these are some topics I may try to
bring up after Chris has made his presentation, etc.

-r
-- 
email: rdm at cfcl.com; phone: +1 650-873-7841
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http://www.cfcl.com/Meta   - The FreeBSD Browser, Meta Project, etc.