From rkleeman at energoncube.net  Tue Jul  9 12:39:18 2013
From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann)
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 12:39:18 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Meeting *this* week
Message-ID: <CAO6cO59y+dpF1g+6Qg0S7egjW2yJU9fKoE-tu6_dd_g1qMyfNg@mail.gmail.com>

Perl Mongers,

We are changing our normal routine of meeting on the third Thursday of the
month for this month only.  We are meeting this Thursday, July 11th,
starting at 7 PM at the Ansir Innovation Center (4685 Convoy St, San Diego,
CA 92111).  Come join us to talk about all the interesting things going on
in and outside of the Perl world.

The folks at the AI Center wanted to remind us about the parking situation:

Please park on either Convoy Street, Engineer Road, or Brinell Street as we
have a small parking lot that we share with other businesses. Avoid parking
in other shopping centers as you may get towed. Look for the green door
marked Suite 210.

We'll look forward to seeing you all soon on Thursday!

  -- Bob
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From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Tue Jul 30 18:20:56 2013
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:20:56 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] anyone looking for a high-end contractor?
Message-ID: <86mwp37cef.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>


My gig at Nami is wrapping up.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
Still trying to think of something clever for the fourth line of this .sig

From joel at fentin.com  Wed Jul 31 08:23:22 2013
From: joel at fentin.com (Joel Fentin)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:23:22 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Seen this?
Message-ID: <51F92BEA.8060805@fentin.com>

https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-the-detroit-of-scripting-languages

-- 
Joel Fentin       tel: 760-749-8863
Biz Website:      http://fentin.com
Personal Website: http://fentin.com/me

From elspicyjack at gmail.com  Wed Jul 31 09:47:03 2013
From: elspicyjack at gmail.com (Brian Manning)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:47:03 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Seen this?
In-Reply-To: <51F92BEA.8060805@fentin.com>
References: <51F92BEA.8060805@fentin.com>
Message-ID: <CAK50bY-qRkgPVtb3dv7usM_MK92vVbj3X+RmtkuJfFAsy0tziQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Joel Fentin <joel at fentin.com> wrote:
> https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-the-detroit-of-scripting-languages

Saw it.

Do you have comments/opinions about it, or were you just sharing the
link for others to read?

Thanks,

Brian

From chris.grau at gmail.com  Wed Jul 31 09:57:35 2013
From: chris.grau at gmail.com (Chris Grau)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:57:35 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Seen this?
In-Reply-To: <51F92BEA.8060805@fentin.com>
References: <51F92BEA.8060805@fentin.com>
Message-ID: <CABd74rw3_47wGpXOr9AhKU68hab8qKYidp2EBnd2L6+rnKqkUA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Joel Fentin <joel at fentin.com> wrote:
> https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-the-detroit-of-scripting-languages
>
> --
> Joel Fentin       tel: 760-749-8863
> Biz Website:      http://fentin.com
> Personal Website: http://fentin.com/me
> _______________________________________________
> San-Diego-pm mailing list
> San-Diego-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/san-diego-pm

From chris.grau at gmail.com  Wed Jul 31 09:59:28 2013
From: chris.grau at gmail.com (Chris Grau)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:59:28 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Is Perl finally dying? [was: Seen this?]
Message-ID: <CABd74rwokzWxi+7ShZ2UOSjaxRnmd9CyT-gGzAatKU4E+K1JMg@mail.gmail.com>

This time, with content (curse you Gmail)!

On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Joel Fentin <joel at fentin.com> wrote:
> https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-the-detroit-of-scripting-languages

Possibly related, this series of blog posts came up while I was at
OSCON last week.

http://anonymoushash.vmbrasseur.com/2013/07/22/the-rising-costs-of-aging-perlers-part-1-the-data/
http://anonymoushash.vmbrasseur.com/2013/07/22/the-rising-costs-of-aging-perlers-part-2-the-business/
http://anonymoushash.vmbrasseur.com/2013/07/22/the-rising-costs-of-aging-perlers-part-3-the-suggestions/

From joel at fentin.com  Wed Jul 31 10:40:01 2013
From: joel at fentin.com (Joel Fentin)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 10:40:01 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Seen this?
In-Reply-To: <CAK50bY-qRkgPVtb3dv7usM_MK92vVbj3X+RmtkuJfFAsy0tziQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51F92BEA.8060805@fentin.com>
	<CAK50bY-qRkgPVtb3dv7usM_MK92vVbj3X+RmtkuJfFAsy0tziQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51F94BF1.3030404@fentin.com>

On 7/31/2013 9:47 AM, Brian Manning wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Joel Fentin <joel at fentin.com> wrote:
>> https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-the-detroit-of-scripting-languages
>
> Saw it.
>
> Do you have comments/opinions about it, or were you just sharing the
> link for others to read?

No comments.

-- 
Joel Fentin       tel: 760-749-8863
Biz Website:      http://fentin.com
Personal Website: http://fentin.com/me

From xrz1138 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 31 10:47:00 2013
From: xrz1138 at gmail.com (Christopher Hahn)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 10:47:00 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Seen this?
In-Reply-To: <51F92BEA.8060805@fentin.com>
References: <51F92BEA.8060805@fentin.com>
Message-ID: <CAP9CNRwaK3OrxFcntBty4zEJMxxBe2Xp2MiGUJ7+5r-wwdgHuA@mail.gmail.com>

I am about done, and appreciate the pointer.

I have not lost my love of perl, and will continue to use it for
the small internal projects that it is perfect for.

I was at the OSCON where the new language was launched,
and have had hope (tho slowly fading) that it would become
the next language for me.  I remain hopeful but with eyes open.

Take care all,

Christopher



On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Joel Fentin <joel at fentin.com> wrote:

> https://speakerdeck.com/**stevan_little/perl-the-**
> detroit-of-scripting-languages<https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-the-detroit-of-scripting-languages>
>
> --
> Joel Fentin       tel: 760-749-8863
> Biz Website:      http://fentin.com
> Personal Website: http://fentin.com/me
> ______________________________**_________________
> San-Diego-pm mailing list
> San-Diego-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/**listinfo/san-diego-pm<http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/san-diego-pm>
>



-- 
Realisant mon espoir, je me lance vers la gloire.
Christopher Hahn == xrz1138 at gmail.com
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From joel at fentin.com  Wed Jul 31 11:16:12 2013
From: joel at fentin.com (Joel Fentin)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:16:12 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Is Perl finally dying? [was: Seen this?]
In-Reply-To: <CABd74rwokzWxi+7ShZ2UOSjaxRnmd9CyT-gGzAatKU4E+K1JMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABd74rwokzWxi+7ShZ2UOSjaxRnmd9CyT-gGzAatKU4E+K1JMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51F9546C.7020408@fentin.com>

On 7/31/2013 9:59 AM, Chris Grau wrote:
> This time, with content (curse you Gmail)!
>
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Joel Fentin <joel at fentin.com> wrote:
>> https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-the-detroit-of-scripting-languages
>
> Possibly related, this series of blog posts came up while I was at
> OSCON last week.
>
> http://anonymoushash.vmbrasseur.com/2013/07/22/the-rising-costs-of-aging-perlers-part-1-the-data/
> http://anonymoushash.vmbrasseur.com/2013/07/22/the-rising-costs-of-aging-perlers-part-2-the-business/
> http://anonymoushash.vmbrasseur.com/2013/07/22/the-rising-costs-of-aging-perlers-part-3-the-suggestions/
>
>

Most interesting. I'm left with the feeling it's too late.

-- 
Joel Fentin       tel: 760-749-8863
Biz Website:      http://fentin.com
Personal Website: http://fentin.com/me

From dwalin at dwalin.ru  Wed Jul 31 11:44:58 2013
From: dwalin at dwalin.ru (Alex Tokarev)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:44:58 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Is Perl finally dying? [was: Seen this?]
In-Reply-To: <CABd74rwokzWxi+7ShZ2UOSjaxRnmd9CyT-gGzAatKU4E+K1JMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CE1E9D44.AE14%dwalin@dwalin.ru>

Sorry if that may sound too harsh but I call BS on this one; she's talking
about the outreach and marketing but what that has to do with the real
world? Nobody chooses a language for a project based on how cool the
language is perceived! Everybody's looking for the killer features that
would help them crank out cool shit in no time, and that's about the only
reason to adopt any new (old?) language.

Now don't get me wrong, I chose Perl for a greenfield project (that's
about to hit the market, finally) because Perl gave me several things I
needed and it was *easier* to go with all Perl's kinks rather than try to
adapt something else. Am I going to continue with Perl on that project?
Abso-frigging-lutely, because the problems and solutions are still there
and will be there. Will I necessarily choose Perl for another, different
project? Whoa there, who said one size fits 'em all?

Which actually brings us to another problem: locked-in-eness. Why is
everybody so obsessed with Perl not being used *EVERYWHERE*? Why is it so
typical for Perlers to dramatize everything around Perl? What's so special
about Perl, anyway? It's a TOOL. It's used to do THINGS. If you need to do
a different thing, use a different tool!

As for the graphs showing the age of Perlers based on YAPC attendance,
that is a very dubious proposition at best. Attending a conference costs
money, a lot of it. Who will pay for Joe the junior dev to attend just
because they could? Yeah, um. Better let's send Jack the senior dev over
there, maybe he'll pick up some cool idea that'd benefit the whole team,
and if not he'd just have a good time with the old buddies.

There is a ton of people out there who are interested in Perl. They won't
learn it unless Perl offers them FEATURES that make time investment
worthwhile. They won't learn it unless they can find PAYING JOBS requiring
Perl knowledge, and there won't be any jobs without FEATURES that make
using Perl *cheaper* in the long run than anything else. All the rest is
BS.

So in the end, is Perl dying or not? Eh, who cares. As long as it solves
my problems, I'm gonna use it. When it stops solving my problems or
becomes too costly to use, I'll switch. It's that simple.

Regards,
Alex.

On 7/31/13 9:59 AM, "Chris Grau" <chris.grau at gmail.com> wrote:

>This time, with content (curse you Gmail)!
>
>On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Joel Fentin <joel at fentin.com> wrote:
>> 
>>https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-the-detroit-of-scripting-langu
>>ages
>
>Possibly related, this series of blog posts came up while I was at
>OSCON last week.
>
>http://anonymoushash.vmbrasseur.com/2013/07/22/the-rising-costs-of-aging-p
>erlers-part-1-the-data/
>http://anonymoushash.vmbrasseur.com/2013/07/22/the-rising-costs-of-aging-p
>erlers-part-2-the-business/
>http://anonymoushash.vmbrasseur.com/2013/07/22/the-rising-costs-of-aging-p
>erlers-part-3-the-suggestions/
>_______________________________________________
>San-Diego-pm mailing list
>San-Diego-pm at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/san-diego-pm



From naterajj at gmail.com  Wed Jul 31 13:36:48 2013
From: naterajj at gmail.com (Juan J. Natera)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:36:48 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Is Perl finally dying? [was: Seen this?]
In-Reply-To: <CE1E9D44.AE14%dwalin@dwalin.ru>
References: <CABd74rwokzWxi+7ShZ2UOSjaxRnmd9CyT-gGzAatKU4E+K1JMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CE1E9D44.AE14%dwalin@dwalin.ru>
Message-ID: <CAF6iUEMkr2bVc=x-6J0gmxGM+djn11FL_m351U1U2yFtYsvJCg@mail.gmail.com>

> As for the graphs showing the age of Perlers based on YAPC attendance,
> that is a very dubious proposition at best. Attending a conference costs
> money, a lot of it. Who will pay for Joe the junior dev to attend just
> because they could? Yeah, um. Better let's send Jack the senior dev over
> there, maybe he'll pick up some cool idea that'd benefit the whole team,
> and if not he'd just have a good time with the old buddies.
>

Yeah, that's why Perl Monger meetings are full of youngsters, because they
can afford local meetings. right? Except the avg age of attendees to PM
meetings is IME closer to the YAPC numbers.

Finding Perl developers is a problem, as will tell you anybody that is
trying to get them.

Juan
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From dwalin at dwalin.ru  Wed Jul 31 15:08:28 2013
From: dwalin at dwalin.ru (Alex Tokarev)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:08:28 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Is Perl finally dying? [was: Seen this?]
In-Reply-To: <CAF6iUEMkr2bVc=x-6J0gmxGM+djn11FL_m351U1U2yFtYsvJCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CE1EC732.AE8A%dwalin@dwalin.ru>

There is nothing special about Perl in that regard. Everybody's complaining
about how hard it is to find good developers. I work for a major player in
HTML5/JavaScript field, and we literally *can't* find people who grok
JavaScript enough to work on the framework core. Does that mean that
JavaScript is dying? Nope, marketoids are trumping about how market is
growing enormously, blah blah.

There's also nothing special about hiring landscape in the software industry
at large. From my very limited experience with it I can tell that it's about
the same as in other high-tech industries. When I was working in telecom,
finding really talented people was an epic problem. How did we cope? Well,
instead of trying to find experienced junior level people ? which is a
totally ridiculous idea by the way, how would they still be junior if
they're already experienced? ? we used to grow them ourselves. With
spectacular results I must say. I fail to see how that does not translate to
the software industry.

Can't really say anything about PM median age, I wasn't there in its heyday..
Did it ever feel like preschool around here?

Regards,
Alex.

From:  "Juan J. Natera" <naterajj at gmail.com>
Date:  Wednesday, July 31, 2013 1:36 PM
To:  Alex Tokarev <dwalin at dwalin.ru>
Cc:  Perl Mongers <San-Diego-pm at pm.org>
Subject:  Re: [San-Diego-pm] Is Perl finally dying? [was: Seen this?]


> As for the graphs showing the age of Perlers based on YAPC attendance,
> that is a very dubious proposition at best. Attending a conference costs
> money, a lot of it. Who will pay for Joe the junior dev to attend just
> because they could? Yeah, um. Better let's send Jack the senior dev over
> there, maybe he'll pick up some cool idea that'd benefit the whole team,
> and if not he'd just have a good time with the old buddies.

Yeah, that's why Perl Monger meetings are full of youngsters, because they
can afford local meetings. right? Except the avg age of attendees to PM
meetings is IME closer to the YAPC numbers.

Finding Perl developers is a problem, as will tell you anybody that is
trying to get them.

Juan


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From rotsen at gmail.com  Wed Jul 31 15:44:50 2013
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?N=C3=A9stor?=)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:44:50 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Is Perl finally dying? [was: Seen this?]
In-Reply-To: <CAF6iUEMkr2bVc=x-6J0gmxGM+djn11FL_m351U1U2yFtYsvJCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABd74rwokzWxi+7ShZ2UOSjaxRnmd9CyT-gGzAatKU4E+K1JMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CE1E9D44.AE14%dwalin@dwalin.ru>
	<CAF6iUEMkr2bVc=x-6J0gmxGM+djn11FL_m351U1U2yFtYsvJCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAON-vCPAxfiD-ugdk8SpLAGPDmC+-YWKxRGKV5XADF7LdvUyKg@mail.gmail.com>

I agree that most PERL developers are older.

I thought that the problem was a shortage of PERL jobs not a shortage of
PERL programmers.  I like PERL but one of the reason that I do not work
with it, is the lack of PERL jobs when looking for employment.

I want to see what PERL 6 brings.

Nestor


On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Juan J. Natera <naterajj at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> As for the graphs showing the age of Perlers based on YAPC attendance,
>> that is a very dubious proposition at best. Attending a conference costs
>> money, a lot of it. Who will pay for Joe the junior dev to attend just
>> because they could? Yeah, um. Better let's send Jack the senior dev over
>> there, maybe he'll pick up some cool idea that'd benefit the whole team,
>> and if not he'd just have a good time with the old buddies.
>>
>
> Yeah, that's why Perl Monger meetings are full of youngsters, because they
> can afford local meetings. right? Except the avg age of attendees to PM
> meetings is IME closer to the YAPC numbers.
>
> Finding Perl developers is a problem, as will tell you anybody that is
> trying to get them.
>
> Juan
>
> _______________________________________________
> San-Diego-pm mailing list
> San-Diego-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/san-diego-pm
>
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From lloyd at crunchtimecorp.com  Wed Jul 31 15:50:01 2013
From: lloyd at crunchtimecorp.com (Lloyd Evetts)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:50:01 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Is Perl finally dying? [was: Seen this?]
In-Reply-To: <CAON-vCPAxfiD-ugdk8SpLAGPDmC+-YWKxRGKV5XADF7LdvUyKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABd74rwokzWxi+7ShZ2UOSjaxRnmd9CyT-gGzAatKU4E+K1JMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CE1E9D44.AE14%dwalin@dwalin.ru>
	<CAF6iUEMkr2bVc=x-6J0gmxGM+djn11FL_m351U1U2yFtYsvJCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAON-vCPAxfiD-ugdk8SpLAGPDmC+-YWKxRGKV5XADF7LdvUyKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADKwJZdjDkSKZ4Nged9=CrVasz4G1o9rDjpQusduf17rVM1qVg@mail.gmail.com>

Even 10 years ago when I was first hiring Perl developers it wasn't easy.
 These days in San Diego I find it hard to find any qualified developers,
but a Perl developer is harder to find than PHP.  Junior and intermediate
the only Perl I've come across are people working for Yahoo in their QA,
but at the more senior level they are out there.  We post positions on
Craigslist every month for Perl even if we don't have an immediate need
just in case the right person comes up.

Nice to see some life in this mailing list!


On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 3:44 PM, N?stor <rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree that most PERL developers are older.
>
> I thought that the problem was a shortage of PERL jobs not a shortage of
> PERL programmers.  I like PERL but one of the reason that I do not work
> with it, is the lack of PERL jobs when looking for employment.
>
> I want to see what PERL 6 brings.
>
> Nestor
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Juan J. Natera <naterajj at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> As for the graphs showing the age of Perlers based on YAPC attendance,
>>> that is a very dubious proposition at best. Attending a conference costs
>>> money, a lot of it. Who will pay for Joe the junior dev to attend just
>>> because they could? Yeah, um. Better let's send Jack the senior dev over
>>> there, maybe he'll pick up some cool idea that'd benefit the whole team,
>>> and if not he'd just have a good time with the old buddies.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, that's why Perl Monger meetings are full of youngsters, because
>> they can afford local meetings. right? Except the avg age of attendees to
>> PM meetings is IME closer to the YAPC numbers.
>>
>> Finding Perl developers is a problem, as will tell you anybody that is
>> trying to get them.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> San-Diego-pm mailing list
>> San-Diego-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/san-diego-pm
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> San-Diego-pm mailing list
> San-Diego-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/san-diego-pm
>



-- 
Lloyd Evetts
Vice President

Phone: (858) 943-1773
Skype: lloydevetts
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From rkleeman at energoncube.net  Wed Jul 31 16:24:12 2013
From: rkleeman at energoncube.net (Bob Kleemann)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:24:12 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Is Perl finally dying? [was: Seen this?]
In-Reply-To: <CADKwJZdjDkSKZ4Nged9=CrVasz4G1o9rDjpQusduf17rVM1qVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABd74rwokzWxi+7ShZ2UOSjaxRnmd9CyT-gGzAatKU4E+K1JMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CE1E9D44.AE14%dwalin@dwalin.ru>
	<CAF6iUEMkr2bVc=x-6J0gmxGM+djn11FL_m351U1U2yFtYsvJCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAON-vCPAxfiD-ugdk8SpLAGPDmC+-YWKxRGKV5XADF7LdvUyKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADKwJZdjDkSKZ4Nged9=CrVasz4G1o9rDjpQusduf17rVM1qVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO6cO58-r-aevtPKs4y=ghXwxnRO7KrRCpqMhy=ruoExvD=LnQ@mail.gmail.com>

It sounds like many people would like to be able to find middle and junior
level Perl people (programmers, sysadmins, etc), and those people are
really hard to find, as opposed to the senior level people, which are just
plain hard to find.  Is there anything this group can do to work on that
issue?  Do we need some training sessions?  Do we need to be better at
answering beginner level questions?  Should we focus on outreach?  Perhaps
the answer is to keep on doing what we're doing?

With the group of talented folks that are in this group, I'm sure we could
make anything happen.  What would you like to see happen?
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From xrz1138 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 31 16:29:26 2013
From: xrz1138 at gmail.com (Christopher Hahn)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:29:26 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Is Perl finally dying? [was: Seen this?]
In-Reply-To: <CAO6cO58-r-aevtPKs4y=ghXwxnRO7KrRCpqMhy=ruoExvD=LnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABd74rwokzWxi+7ShZ2UOSjaxRnmd9CyT-gGzAatKU4E+K1JMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CE1E9D44.AE14%dwalin@dwalin.ru>
	<CAF6iUEMkr2bVc=x-6J0gmxGM+djn11FL_m351U1U2yFtYsvJCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAON-vCPAxfiD-ugdk8SpLAGPDmC+-YWKxRGKV5XADF7LdvUyKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADKwJZdjDkSKZ4Nged9=CrVasz4G1o9rDjpQusduf17rVM1qVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO6cO58-r-aevtPKs4y=ghXwxnRO7KrRCpqMhy=ruoExvD=LnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP9CNRwtumkL5VNjY04jhD_HSiCsf0Wxxn36bXfL6XWsjPJ6FQ@mail.gmail.com>

LOL...I am a senior willing to take a middle level role, if it involves
perl.

I went from straight Software Engineer to a scripter, but then got
pigeon-holed
into CM and am looking at Senior CME roles.

I just use perl when I need a tool.  That is it for me.  My stuff has
mainly been
internal tool code anyway.

I am playing with Grails these days too.  The whole convention over
configuration
thing has been taken quite far these days.

Take care all,

Christopher



On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Bob Kleemann <rkleeman at energoncube.net>wrote:

> It sounds like many people would like to be able to find middle and junior
> level Perl people (programmers, sysadmins, etc), and those people are
> really hard to find, as opposed to the senior level people, which are just
> plain hard to find.  Is there anything this group can do to work on that
> issue?  Do we need some training sessions?  Do we need to be better at
> answering beginner level questions?  Should we focus on outreach?  Perhaps
> the answer is to keep on doing what we're doing?
>
> With the group of talented folks that are in this group, I'm sure we could
> make anything happen.  What would you like to see happen?
>
> _______________________________________________
> San-Diego-pm mailing list
> San-Diego-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/san-diego-pm
>



-- 
Realisant mon espoir, je me lance vers la gloire.
Christopher Hahn == xrz1138 at gmail.com
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From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Wed Jul 31 19:15:00 2013
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:15:00 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Seen this?
In-Reply-To: <CAP9CNRwaK3OrxFcntBty4zEJMxxBe2Xp2MiGUJ7+5r-wwdgHuA@mail.gmail.com>
	(Christopher Hahn's message of "Wed, 31 Jul 2013 10:47:00 -0700")
References: <51F92BEA.8060805@fentin.com>
	<CAP9CNRwaK3OrxFcntBty4zEJMxxBe2Xp2MiGUJ7+5r-wwdgHuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86k3k62m3f.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Christopher" == Christopher Hahn <xrz1138 at gmail.com> writes:

Christopher> I was at the OSCON where the new language was launched,
Christopher> and have had hope (tho slowly fading) that it would become
Christopher> the next language for me.  I remain hopeful but with eyes
Christopher> open.

What new language?

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
Still trying to think of something clever for the fourth line of this .sig

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Wed Jul 31 19:19:59 2013
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:19:59 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Is Perl finally dying? [was: Seen this?]
In-Reply-To: <CAO6cO58-r-aevtPKs4y=ghXwxnRO7KrRCpqMhy=ruoExvD=LnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	(Bob Kleemann's message of "Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:24:12 -0700")
References: <CABd74rwokzWxi+7ShZ2UOSjaxRnmd9CyT-gGzAatKU4E+K1JMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CE1E9D44.AE14%dwalin@dwalin.ru>
	<CAF6iUEMkr2bVc=x-6J0gmxGM+djn11FL_m351U1U2yFtYsvJCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAON-vCPAxfiD-ugdk8SpLAGPDmC+-YWKxRGKV5XADF7LdvUyKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADKwJZdjDkSKZ4Nged9=CrVasz4G1o9rDjpQusduf17rVM1qVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO6cO58-r-aevtPKs4y=ghXwxnRO7KrRCpqMhy=ruoExvD=LnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86fvuu2lv4.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Bob" == Bob Kleemann <rkleeman at energoncube.net> writes:

Bob> It sounds like many people would like to be able to find middle and junior
Bob> level Perl people (programmers, sysadmins, etc), and those people are
Bob> really hard to find, as opposed to the senior level people, which are just
Bob> plain hard to find.  Is there anything this group can do to work on that
Bob> issue?  Do we need some training sessions?  Do we need to be better at
Bob> answering beginner level questions?  Should we focus on outreach?  Perhaps
Bob> the answer is to keep on doing what we're doing?

It's partially a perception problem, like Perl is old and crufty.

If kids only understood how many Perl jobs are out there where they give
up Perl entirely because they can't find enough Perl devs, more would
learn it.

There is absolutely more Perl development happening today than ever,
even counting the perl-ruled-the-web dot-com boom.

There are more Perl releases.

There are more Perl CPAN uploads.

But this won't last long, if we don't get new blood.

The big problem for hiring is that you need one or two *senior* Perl
devs (and they're all happily employed, thank you), and a bunch of
junior devs.  But there aren't any new junior devs.  So we're in a bit
of a panic.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
Still trying to think of something clever for the fourth line of this .sig

From xrz1138 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 31 20:18:17 2013
From: xrz1138 at gmail.com (Christopher Hahn)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:18:17 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Seen this?
In-Reply-To: <86k3k62m3f.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
References: <51F92BEA.8060805@fentin.com>
	<CAP9CNRwaK3OrxFcntBty4zEJMxxBe2Xp2MiGUJ7+5r-wwdgHuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<86k3k62m3f.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <CAP9CNRwwq=kutuRhdRtUVqKo5CGCj_oP8=jPnNTikq5hP3cKmA@mail.gmail.com>

Perl 6....well it was one of the Cons at which some of the big meetings
were held. 2000 IIRC...maybe 2001.

You were there.  You have me a Stonehenge t-shirt and free beer.  Still
love the shirt.  :0)

Take care,

Chris


On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Randal L. Schwartz
<merlyn at stonehenge.com>wrote:

> >>>>> "Christopher" == Christopher Hahn <xrz1138 at gmail.com> writes:
>
> Christopher> I was at the OSCON where the new language was launched,
> Christopher> and have had hope (tho slowly fading) that it would become
> Christopher> the next language for me.  I remain hopeful but with eyes
> Christopher> open.
>
> What new language?
>
> --
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777
> 0095
> <merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
> Still trying to think of something clever for the fourth line of this .sig
>



-- 
Realisant mon espoir, je me lance vers la gloire.
Christopher Hahn == xrz1138 at gmail.com
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From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Wed Jul 31 20:19:34 2013
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:19:34 -0700
Subject: [San-Diego-pm] Seen this?
In-Reply-To: <CAP9CNRwwq=kutuRhdRtUVqKo5CGCj_oP8=jPnNTikq5hP3cKmA@mail.gmail.com>
	(Christopher Hahn's message of "Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:18:17 -0700")
References: <51F92BEA.8060805@fentin.com>
	<CAP9CNRwaK3OrxFcntBty4zEJMxxBe2Xp2MiGUJ7+5r-wwdgHuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<86k3k62m3f.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
	<CAP9CNRwwq=kutuRhdRtUVqKo5CGCj_oP8=jPnNTikq5hP3cKmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8638qu2j3t.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Christopher" == Christopher Hahn <xrz1138 at gmail.com> writes:

Christopher> Perl 6....well it was one of the Cons at which some of the
Christopher> big meetings were held. 2000 IIRC...maybe 2001.

Ahh, didn't get the context.  Expecting something else.

Christopher> You were there.  You have me a Stonehenge t-shirt and free
Christopher> beer.  Still love the shirt.  :0)

Yeah, Back when we were making money. :)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
Still trying to think of something clever for the fourth line of this .sig