From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed May 1 00:13:18 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:12 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Donated Computers Issue (cont'd) In-Reply-To: <20020501004544.X10839@moria.seul.org> References: <02043018245900.22356@aether> <20020501004544.X10839@moria.seul.org> Message-ID: <02043022131801.23486@aether> On Tuesday 30 April 2002 21:45, Roger Dingledine wrote: > I mean, their statement is false -- I buy my computers from a fine > place called www.kc-computers.com (for example, that's where I got the > machine running seul.org), and when I say "no operating system please" > he's just fine with that. But there's a big difference between "I'm an > exception so your statement isn't totally correct" and "Your statement > doesn't apply to anybody." > > Hm. > > --Roger Hi: You answered your own question, I think. Microsoft is putting the word out, that any and all computers must retain the original OS for the life of the computer. Period. No consideration for your situation. No consideration for any other situation. That, is misleading those who cannot afford to question, e.g., schools, libraries, public institutions, nonprofits, and the list goes on. A fair web site would specify that the following information applies to M$ products only. Then, it would be up to someone to test the EULA in court, as to whether they are over-reaching. Who's going to spend the money? Until some organization does, what we have in front of us, is a dampening, and a disastrous dampening of the concept we know as donation of computers to those who so desperately need them. Did you see the article that mentioned " - - - Most recyclers, he says, "want to lay low and not take MS on," which is of course a perfectly prudent point of view. His organisation gets donated computers, then finds itself buying and installing new software even when it's "pretty sure" the software on the machine is licensed already. He also points out that it's difficult and more expensive to source older operating software that will actually run on older machines, because Microsoft pushes its new software, which won't." That, amounts to raising the cost of most computers donated by 100%, right? In other words, we are seeing a significant cut of half of the donated computer market for no other reason than some M$ crappola, which means half of those that might benefit from a donated computer, will lose out, altogether. Why? This is the same company that donated so much money to bringing affordable research and drugs to Africa. The next step they took, was to send in auditors, and shut down those clinics that did not present proper records and paperwork. People die when their medicine gets shut off without notice! As for your comment that there's "a big difference between "I'm an exception so your statement isn't totally correct" and "Your statement doesn't apply to anybody."". I'd like you to think about whether a better way to put it, is, there's a big difference between "Your statement applies to everyone" and "Your statement does not apply to donated equipment, unless it contains your software/OS, and then it does not apply to any hardware, until you legally establish such." Thanks, Tom Poe http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed May 1 12:21:16 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:12 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... In-Reply-To: <20020501161512.GL21051@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca> References: <02042509362800.00412@aether> <20020430201317.GC6090@lic145.kiev.ua> <20020501161512.GL21051@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca> Message-ID: <02050110211600.26193@aether> Hi: Thank you Michael, and thank you Ben. Appreciate the input. Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Wednesday 01 May 2002 09:15, Ben Armstrong wrote: > On Tue, Apr 30, 2002 at 11:13:17PM +0300, Michael Shigorin wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 11:38:34AM -0700, tom poe wrote: > > > thinking, today, about whether the server will be Debian, or Slackware. > > > Any consensus out there, yet? The hesitation I have about the RH > > > approach, is > > > > Q: which Linux distro should I choose? > > A: used by your local guru. > > > > Not definitely The Truth, but rather A Hint. > > Or by extension: the one used by the most knowledgeable/willing to help > people in a nearby LUG (Linux User Group). It can be a mistake to base > such a decision on the availability of help from a single guru. It is > better if you have a "pool" of gurus you can draw from, like a LUG. > > Or more simply put: the one you are most likely to be able to reliably get > affordable help for. > > Ben > p.s. and yes, if you lived in my town, that would be Debian :) From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed May 1 12:37:13 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:12 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... In-Reply-To: <20020430201134.GB6090@lic145.kiev.ua> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020425083617.09b17ea8@pop3.daukas.com> <02042511274800.00916@aether> <20020430201134.GB6090@lic145.kiev.ua> Message-ID: <02050110371301.26193@aether> Hi: Nevada schools just got hit with having to deal with Bush's let the kids transfer anytime they feel like it, and schools foot the bill, bill. Can you imagine the cost to taxpayors on this one? I appreciate your input Michael, and understand where you're coming from, but somehow we have to change the "Model". And, there needs to be a nifty way to get the message out, that IT support is a voluntary, community-based reality, and geographically without limits [remote support], through a LUG network, or whatever. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Tuesday 30 April 2002 13:11, Michael Shigorin wrote: > On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 11:27:48AM -0700, tom poe wrote: > > Hi: Oh, OK. One contract coming up. $1 per year, or donation > > of an amount school chooses, and a pair of eyes to take > > responsibility. > > What do you think? > > No good. Person will definitely have more important things to do > (or these will find him/her), and "free beer" isn't taken > seriously and supposed to be Guinness. Listen, those customers > just won't recognize you if you do something "for free"! > > Paradox, but: $1 support makes it easy to drop the solution > because nothing is invested. It's cheap to drop, it's not even > "serious". > > Believe me, I speak from experience... From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed May 1 12:40:39 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:12 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... In-Reply-To: <20020430200800.GA6090@lic145.kiev.ua> References: <02042509362800.00412@aether> <20020425201131.GA2365@digikata.com> <20020430200800.GA6090@lic145.kiev.ua> Message-ID: <02050110403902.26193@aether> Hi: Just pulled the page up. Nice. Put a MAJOR CATEGORY on there for SCHOOLS, and let's describe a working "Model". Looks good. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Tuesday 30 April 2002 13:08, Michael Shigorin wrote: > On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 01:11:31PM -0700, Alan Chen wrote: > > Agreed, I am that company :). But many of those companies are > > small operations without the brand recognition of Microsoft. > > There's a need in (inter)coordination and "one common place" > acting as a frontend. This makes advertising/popularising easier > and the whole thing (supposedly) more expected to work. > > As we figured this out here (not specifically schoolish, but > rather SOHO and other oriented debates, but no matter), we've > been thinking of some kind of repository of "people, firms, and > solutions". Some nice example can be found at > http://sourcebiz.berlios.de/index.php3?lang=English . From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed May 1 12:42:41 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:12 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] ISO & documentation... In-Reply-To: <02May1.131723bst.119043@harry.trinity.manchester.sch.uk> References: <02May1.131723bst.119043@harry.trinity.manchester.sch.uk> Message-ID: <02050110424103.26193@aether> Hi: Sounds good to me. . . too! Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Wednesday 01 May 2002 05:23, Chris Puttick wrote: > > Sounds good to me... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen C. Daukas > To: seul-edu@seul.org > Sent: 5/1/02 12:58 PM > Subject: [seul-edu] ISO & documentation... > > At 11:57 AM 4/26/2002, Doug wrote: > >"Stephen C. Daukas" wrote: > > > We should put together a structure for tracking feedback from the > > > participant teachers, as well as techies, etc., etc. We could use > > CVS for > > [snip] > > >This sounds like a good direction to pursue. SEUL has a robust CVS > > setup, > > >along > > [snip] > > So, I'm back and have caught-up on a number of things. I have read a > lot > of the postings on the list (had to ferret out the stuff pertinent to > the > ISO effort) and am wondering what behind-the-scenes logistics has taken > place... > > Is there a list of who is doing what? Any ideas on what the CVS > structure > should look like? Anyone make any progress on an installer (I thought I > > saw someone asking Blue Tooth about this)? Do we think there will be > development, or do we think there is enough already out there that this > becomes a packaging issue only? > > My questions may be premature (and you don't have to answer each one), > but > I want to get an idea of where to jump in and when. Also, my new school > > (where I'm teaching an elective) ends in just a couple of weeks (college > > schedule), so if I am to try to get local resources for development, > etc., > then I need to move on this quickly. > > I had a thought regarding being distro-neutral... > > I think we could get along very well with a killer HOW-TO for education > that addresses system administration issues, etc., with suggested > configuration options for small, medium, and large scale schools. We > should also include instructions for using the bundled educational > software > (whatever that ends up being) in each of those three settings. > > What made me think of this is the work I've done in teaching a Linux > Course > this term. I based the course on several sources of information from > those > who have done this before (thanks again!). I decided to make things a > little more "vanilla" and essentially walk the students through an > install > and configuration, step by step, so that each would have a working > network > when finished with the course. We now have several machines set-up as > servers running everything you would expect from an ISP, and the kids > are > having a ball! > > This has not gone unnoticed and a few folks have made comments along the > > lines of "gee, if they can build a functioning network in just 8 > classes, > we ought to be able to put together a system that suits our needs. > Maybe > the kids can help?" > > Given the success of the class is completely based on walking through > existing documentation (books, HOW-TOs, etc.), might it seem plausible > to > explore this route? > > Steve ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed May 1 12:46:14 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:12 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Donated Computers Issue (opportunity knocks) In-Reply-To: <20020501140157.GA11874@ahau.localdomain> References: <02043018245900.22356@aether> <3CCFE5B9.139651F7@suscom.net> <20020501140157.GA11874@ahau.localdomain> Message-ID: <02050110461404.26193@aether> Hi: I agree. Excellent suggestion. We'll format it to be a "unified" statement that all nonprofits, LUG's, Perl Mongers, and media can put on their web sites. A glorified "sticker" if-you-will. An active letter signed by each web site that puts it up. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Wednesday 01 May 2002 07:01, Jan Wilson wrote: > * Doug Loss [020501 07:00]: > > While I applaud Roger for agreeing to put this out under the SEUL > > imprimatur, might it not be better coming from Schoolforge? After all, > > Schoolforge is a coalition of ~75 organizations from around the world > > that are interested in Linux in education. If you all agree, we can put > > something on the schoolforge-core mailing list (which is where decisions > > for the coalition get made) asking for a quick approval of the message. > > If it's not forthcoming, SEUL can put the message out alone (or in > > concert with whatever other groups agree). > > I agree ... what good is the marketing clout of ~75 organizations if > you don't use 'em? ;-) From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed May 1 22:36:24 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:12 2004 Subject: Draft Review Message-ID: <02050120362400.28899@aether> Hi: I just put Leon's draft #2 up at: http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/index.html and, I just can't help thinking this reads just right, and should be publicized extensively. It uses Leon's name, and it refers to Leon as spokesperson for Seul. With that in mind, I wonder if we should get some sort of sanction, or approval, or go-ahead to try and get this out there in the "wild". How do we do that? Is it as simple as Leon saying, one more time, use it? And Doug, saying, go ahead? Please let me know what you think. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From anatoly at total-knowledge.com Thu May 2 03:01:11 2002 From: anatoly at total-knowledge.com (Anatoly Volynets) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:12 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Global Repository for Government Comments In-Reply-To: <02043015161000.21531@aether> References: <02043015161000.21531@aether> Message-ID: <20020502080115.772.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> I like the idea. I only doubt, it may be supported by governments. The only entity, which is really interested in such repository is people. The Repository in order to be effective should provide sophisticated system of texts, references, analysis, arguments, dialogues, history, statistics, + voting and petitioning tools + search engine. It's a big project. Anatoly On Tuesday 30 April 2002 03:16 pm, tom poe wrote: > Hello: It has occurred to me, as a result of recent efforts to send > comments to governmental agencies, subcommittees, representatives and > senators, ad nauseum, and with little success, and a growing concern that > such obstacles as "email server problems", and "fax problems" and "phone > problems" and "mail problems", that maybe the time has come, especially as > it is obvious that we are in a global fight over personal freedoms, to > consider establishing a Repository for comments regarding various > legislation. > > This Repository should be supported, not by individuals, but by governments > around the world, wishing to enter a global [world-order] way of > communicating. Such costs for this Repository would be nominal, and would > benefit all involved. Citizens could send their email comments to > particular mailboxes in the Repository, and governmental officials would be > able to search and analyze for keywords, concepts, "feelings", or whatever > they wanted. > > My question is, if this project were to begin, and to go forward, what > might be a suggestion, advice, or thoughts about how best to present this > to those who should have a vested interest, e.g., Hollings, RIAA, BPDG, > Congress, EUCD, UK, France, . . . . got the picture? Your response is > greatly anticipated and appreciated. > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu May 2 11:18:30 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:12 2004 Subject: Fwd: Panama -(was Small Towns Build Their Own High-Speed Internet Systems Message-ID: <02050209183000.31810@aether> Hi, Alex: As you can see, I have waaay toooo much time on my hands. :-) The thread, below, is about this global knowledge discussion group, which I have been following for about 3 years, and their intensive effort to milk as much money as possible from recipients in the name of developing countries recipients, if that makes any sense. Looks like there is a small faction, comprised of individuals throughout the world, that sort of think this is a better way to do stuff. Which is a good thing, but needs more "mass" to move. See what you think. thanks, Tom ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Panama -(was Small Towns Build Their Own High-Speed Internet Systems Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 06:39:18 -0700 From: John Hibbs To: gld@onenet.net There is a **hugely** interesting project underway in Panama, spearheaded by a remarkable fellow, Bob Wolford, from Houston. Bottom line, what he's trying to do is trying to get tens of thousands of jobs for Panamaians -- not by making shoes or weaving baskets, but by doing telework on behalf of clients in the developed world. He's doing this on an shoestring and could use lots of help from many who subscribe to this list. For example, he needs ways to speed the learning of English for many thousands; Eric can't really help because most of his work is "custom" - one on one. But there are software programs - and people - who I think could guide Bob - or perhaps keep him from some of the pitfalls. We will showcase Bob during GLDVI. If he can do what he says he can, then some very bright spotlights should shine on him. More important, a whole lot of people from Latin America, Africa and Asia will be flying to Panama to see how a country can turn to knowledge exports as a way to improve their GNP. Read on for more about what others are doing....with thanks to Tom Poe. >From: tom poe >To: gkd@phoenix.edc.org >Subject: Re: [GKD] Small Towns Build Their Own High-Speed Internet Systems >Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:14:52 -0700 >Sender: owner-gkd@phoenix.edc.org >Reply-To: gkd@phoenix.edc.org > >Two years ago, as you may dimly remember, I posted this: > in response to the discussions here, >and through the Stockholm Challenge. The missing piece, turns out to be >the market consultant that could open the door to a corporate partner >for "making it happen". Even with the promise of a multi-million >dollar commission that took nothing away from the recipients, this step >remains open. > >Today, there is an alternative path being pursued. This path is >directed at the schools, directly. By providing a means to set up >networks that are without licensing restrictions, on computers that can >be obtained through donations and programs similar to what is mentioned >above, entire countries can have the infrastructure filled in with >pennies. The wireless aspects can be pursued without regulatory >"approval", and the governments of so many countries working to control >broadband access requirements can sit on their expensive and >questionable decisions. I encourage you to visit > >http://www.seul.org/ and its ISO project, >http://www.seul.org/edu/projects.html > >and see how it might fit with your efforts. > >Thanks, > >Tom Poe >Reno, NV >http://www.studioforrecording.org/ >http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ >http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > >On Friday 26 April 2002 01:10, Alan Levy wrote: >> Peter Burgess wrote: >> > The posting by Alan Levy regarding small towns building their own high >> > speed internet system is also the justification for the rural strategy >> > being implemented by ATCnet in Africa. The technology is powerful >> > enough and low cost enough for service to be universal and sustainable >> > .... but not at the high cost of capital and high cost of fees and >> > taxation that are recommended by many international development >> > advisors and institutions. >> >> I am desiring that one non-profit public/private partnership Internet >> infrastructure initiative receive spectrum and funding. This was the >> lauded advice from the World Economic Forum, in their report contracted >> by and issued to the G-8, "Sustaining Growth and Bridging the Digital >> Divides." Although the report provided the underlying basis for DOT >> Force, and was issued a couple of years ago, not one infrastructure >> > > initiative has been developed. ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu May 2 13:22:37 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Copyright is essentially wrong (I'm surprised no one's mentioned this from today's) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02050211223701.32405@aether> Hi: My understanding of this concept, is that if we create a transformative work, it must be "approved" by the original copyright holder. Or, the work has to wait until the copyright is ended. Since we all agree [I hope], that all works are based on previous knowledge and experience, i.e., from ideas and expressions that came before, it flies in the face of advancement to think copyrights are deserving of "life unto perpetuity". Under our present system, Shakespear can sit and wait for what, maybe another 150 years, and then publish his "original" work? Those who believe that copyright should indeed, be granted unto perpetuity, get into trouble when confronted with this notion, so we now have something that looks like, copyrights are "property", and, for the good of society, in that it is much more efficient to have as few doors as possible to negotiate the "market transactions", advancement in the arts and sciences will thrive if we lose the traditional concept, and replace it with "intellectual property" concept. For example, although Disney based his works on previous "works", he now wants to change the rules, and keep his "rights" from now until forever. Nice for him, but bad for those who follow. Thanks, tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Thursday 02 May 2002 08:52, James S. Huggins \(DMCA Discuss\) wrote: > ============================= > The works of Shakespear for instance would not have been written under > copyright law (many of his works are based on works of about 30 years > before he wrote his). > ============================= > > Is this explored anywhere in more detail? > > > James S. Huggins > > > > > .... > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu May 2 15:09:48 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Revised and published as SFR . . . . Message-ID: <02050213094800.00385@aether> Hi: Revised the draft to read from Studio For Recording, Inc., rather than Seul. Felt there should be something out there, NOW! Hopefully, the Schoolforge/Seul statement will be one that will attract media attention. To that end, check this out: http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/index.html , and see if it spurs creative juices for our "Offishal" response. I'm proud to announce we have an article on http://www.linuxjournal.com that might be of interest, and with that in mind, I should be able to approach them with the "Offishal" response idea when we're all ready. That is, unless the comments are such that Richard has to spend all his time censoring. :-) The other idea I had, was, to build on what someone said earlier, about creating a "media kit", and list of targets to send the statement to. If we generate a significant number of addresses [hopefully, email addresses], then we can divvy up the pot, and each list member can shoot off 5 or 10. What do you think? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From alex at synchcorp.com Thu May 2 22:00:46 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [seul-edu] Re: Unified Front... References: <02042509362800.00412@aether> <20020430201317.GC6090@lic145.kiev.ua> <20020501161512.GL21051@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca> <02050110211600.26193@aether> Message-ID: <3CD1FD5E.577153B4@synchcorp.com> Hi, all. Don't forget the all-important "does my intended application actually RUN on that distro??" 8^) There are some things that just don't run on any distro that's not RedHat based, believe me. But, yes, it is good to get a recommendation from more local people, since as much as anyone can SSH in, if we need another pair of hands at the keyboard it would be nice if they were familiar with the distro. Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer tom poe wrote: > Hi: Thank you Michael, and thank you Ben. Appreciate the input. > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > On Wednesday 01 May 2002 09:15, Ben Armstrong wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2002 at 11:13:17PM +0300, Michael Shigorin wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 11:38:34AM -0700, tom poe wrote: > > > > thinking, today, about whether the server will be Debian, or Slackware. > > > > Any consensus out there, yet? The hesitation I have about the RH > > > > approach, is > > > > > > Q: which Linux distro should I choose? > > > A: used by your local guru. > > > > > > Not definitely The Truth, but rather A Hint. > > > > Or by extension: the one used by the most knowledgeable/willing to help > > people in a nearby LUG (Linux User Group). It can be a mistake to base > > such a decision on the availability of help from a single guru. It is > > better if you have a "pool" of gurus you can draw from, like a LUG. > > > > Or more simply put: the one you are most likely to be able to reliably get > > affordable help for. > > > > Ben > > p.s. and yes, if you lived in my town, that would be Debian :) > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From alex at synchcorp.com Thu May 2 22:05:17 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [seul-edu] ISO & documentation... References: <02May1.131723bst.119043@harry.trinity.manchester.sch.uk> <02050110424103.26193@aether> Message-ID: <3CD1FE6D.67930D28@synchcorp.com> Excellent experience! If you could write an article or something that can be shared in an "official" or "serious" manner, we could turn a lot of heads. Nothing would work better than a graphic testimonial by a fellow teacher to convice other educators. Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer tom poe wrote: > Hi: Sounds good to me. . . too! > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > On Wednesday 01 May 2002 05:23, Chris Puttick wrote: > > > > Sounds good to me... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Stephen C. Daukas > > To: seul-edu@seul.org > > Sent: 5/1/02 12:58 PM > > Subject: [seul-edu] ISO & documentation... > > > > At 11:57 AM 4/26/2002, Doug wrote: > > >"Stephen C. Daukas" wrote: > > > > We should put together a structure for tracking feedback from the > > > > participant teachers, as well as techies, etc., etc. We could use > > > > CVS for > > > > [snip] > > > > >This sounds like a good direction to pursue. SEUL has a robust CVS > > > > setup, > > > > >along > > > > [snip] > > > > So, I'm back and have caught-up on a number of things. I have read a > > lot > > of the postings on the list (had to ferret out the stuff pertinent to > > the > > ISO effort) and am wondering what behind-the-scenes logistics has taken > > place... > > > > Is there a list of who is doing what? Any ideas on what the CVS > > structure > > should look like? Anyone make any progress on an installer (I thought I > > > > saw someone asking Blue Tooth about this)? Do we think there will be > > development, or do we think there is enough already out there that this > > becomes a packaging issue only? > > > > My questions may be premature (and you don't have to answer each one), > > but > > I want to get an idea of where to jump in and when. Also, my new school > > > > (where I'm teaching an elective) ends in just a couple of weeks (college > > > > schedule), so if I am to try to get local resources for development, > > etc., > > then I need to move on this quickly. > > > > I had a thought regarding being distro-neutral... > > > > I think we could get along very well with a killer HOW-TO for education > > that addresses system administration issues, etc., with suggested > > configuration options for small, medium, and large scale schools. We > > should also include instructions for using the bundled educational > > software > > (whatever that ends up being) in each of those three settings. > > > > What made me think of this is the work I've done in teaching a Linux > > Course > > this term. I based the course on several sources of information from > > those > > who have done this before (thanks again!). I decided to make things a > > little more "vanilla" and essentially walk the students through an > > install > > and configuration, step by step, so that each would have a working > > network > > when finished with the course. We now have several machines set-up as > > servers running everything you would expect from an ISP, and the kids > > are > > having a ball! > > > > This has not gone unnoticed and a few folks have made comments along the > > > > lines of "gee, if they can build a functioning network in just 8 > > classes, > > we ought to be able to put together a system that suits our needs. > > Maybe > > the kids can help?" > > > > Given the success of the class is completely based on walking through > > existing documentation (books, HOW-TOs, etc.), might it seem plausible > > to > > explore this route? > > > > Steve > > ---------------------------------------- > Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="Attachment: 1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Description: > ---------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From alex at synchcorp.com Thu May 2 22:08:07 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Draft Review References: <02050120362400.28899@aether> Message-ID: <3CD1FF17.77DD9816@synchcorp.com> You get my support for it. Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer tom poe wrote: > Hi: I just put Leon's draft #2 up at: > http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/index.html > > and, I just can't help thinking this reads just right, and should be > publicized extensively. It uses Leon's name, and it refers to Leon as > spokesperson for Seul. With that in mind, I wonder if we should get some > sort of sanction, or approval, or go-ahead to try and get this out there in > the "wild". How do we do that? Is it as simple as Leon saying, one more > time, use it? And Doug, saying, go ahead? Please let me know what you think. > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From alex at synchcorp.com Thu May 2 22:27:03 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Copyright is essentially wrong (I'm surprised no one's mentioned this from today's) References: <02050211223701.32405@aether> Message-ID: <3CD20387.D3FF80F3@synchcorp.com> Ah, and here's were we start getting into the muddy waters of why copyrights came into fashion in the first place. If the original author(s) of 1001 Arabian Nights could have copyrighted their works, Disney couldn't have made (alas, are STILL making) a gazillion bucks on Alladin's tale, while they (or their descendants) make no money and live in relative anonymity. Although copyrights are damaging to the creative process of those not holding said copyrights, they do help to keep the copyright holders from gettting totally screwed by companies that would abuse the spirit of their creations. "In a perfect world..." people would be honorable, and not abuse creative people's inate generosity. However, as long as we have the RIAA, Disney, Microsoft and other assimilators who take credit and money for other people's work, it's either resort to the protection copyrights afford, or resign yourself to the fact that you're about to be majorly abused. We need to get rid of people who would rape and pillage our knowledge and creations, and the issue of copyrights would go away on its own. And THAT would be a perfect world... How many more years until Mickey Mouse becomes Public Domain? We'll screw Disney back! 8^) Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer tom poe wrote: > Hi: My understanding of this concept, is that if we create a transformative > work, it must be "approved" by the original copyright holder. Or, the work > has to wait until the copyright is ended. Since we all agree [I hope], that > all works are based on previous knowledge and experience, i.e., from ideas > and expressions that came before, it flies in the face of advancement to > think copyrights are deserving of "life unto perpetuity". Under our present > system, Shakespear can sit and wait for what, maybe another 150 years, and > then publish his "original" work? > > Those who believe that copyright should indeed, be granted unto perpetuity, > get into trouble when confronted with this notion, so we now have something > that looks like, copyrights are "property", and, for the good of society, in > that it is much more efficient to have as few doors as possible to negotiate > the "market transactions", advancement in the arts and sciences will thrive > if we lose the traditional concept, and replace it with "intellectual > property" concept. For example, although Disney based his works on previous > "works", he now wants to change the rules, and keep his "rights" from now > until forever. Nice for him, but bad for those who follow. > Thanks, > tom > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > On Thursday 02 May 2002 08:52, James S. Huggins \(DMCA Discuss\) wrote: > > ============================= > > The works of Shakespear for instance would not have been written under > > copyright law (many of his works are based on works of about 30 years > > before he wrote his). > > ============================= > > > > Is this explored anywhere in more detail? > > > > > > James S. Huggins > > > > > > > > > > .... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > ------------------------ > > http://www.anti-dmca.org > > ------------------------ > > > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From simon at eskimo.com Fri May 3 07:28:48 2002 From: simon at eskimo.com (Simon Drabble) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Copyright is essentially wrong (I'm surprised no one's mentioned this from today's) In-Reply-To: <3CD20387.D3FF80F3@synchcorp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 May 2002, Alex wrote: > > How many more years until Mickey Mouse becomes Public Domain? We'll screw > Disney back! 8^) > > Alex Heizer > http://www.synchcorp.com/alex > http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer > Yeah, good luck with that. Wasn't The Rat about to become PD, and then Disney bought a nice copyright extension from Sonny Bonio (who I believe was actually Disney's first attempt at a working animatronic robot)? A more effective plan would be to convince everyone to boycott Disney -- good luck with that one too. Have you noticed how Disney release one version of a movie on DVD, then three months later the "special edition"? and people buy both! or how they release the widescreen edition on one DVD, and the standard edition on another, and guess what -- people buy both! I'd provide links for these but I'm late for work. I'm sure a quick google would turn up some interesting info though. Si. From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 3 11:39:21 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Movie and TV Industries Force SonicBlue to Spy on Customers In-Reply-To: <3CD297AD.28E9C156@RealMeasures.dyndns.org> References: <3CD297AD.28E9C156@RealMeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <02050309392100.06620@aether> Hi: Gee, this sounds like a good deal. Makes you want to run out and buy one, eh? Sort of fits with the RIAA toilet dilemma for viewer position they've adopted. "A federal magistrate in Los Angeles has ordered SonicBlue to spy on thousands of digital video recorder users -- monitoring every show they record, every commercial they skip and every program they send electronically to a friend." `It's an incredible invasion of privacy,'' said Fred von Lohmann, an intellectual property expert for the Electronic Frontier Foundation. ``But second -- and equally important -- is what the Electronic Frontier Foundation and others have been saying was going to happen now for some time. Basically, under the guise of copyright laws, courts are going to be put in a position of telling technology companies how to build their products.'' The above quotes leave no doubt in my mind that M$ is celebrating, and rolling out their DRM with additional privacy intrusion features, they never thought possible. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Friday 03 May 2002 06:59, Seth Johnson wrote: > (Forwarded from Free Dmitry Sklyarov list, > free-sklyarov@zork.net) > > -------- Original Message -------- > Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:49:04 -0400 > From: "Richard M. Smith" > > > Hi, > > The copyright battle between content companies and > technology companies hit a new all-time low yesterday in Los > Angeles. According to an article in the San Jose Mercury > News, a federal judge in Los Angeles, at the request of > major movie studios and TV networks, is compelling SonicBlue > to spy on the viewing habits of individual ReplayTV > customers. SonicBlue doesn't have this type of tracking > software today, but was given 60 days by the court to create > it and install it on customer ReplayTV boxes using the > auto-update feature of the boxes. > > This move by the court and content companies is exactly the > problem I warned about on March 1, 2002 in a piece I did on > Senator Hollings's proposed CBDTPA bill. This piece can be > found here at my Web site: > > Anti-piracy technology means more surveillance, less > privacy > http://www.computerbytesman.com/copyprotect/hollings.htm > > I hope that everyone who is concerned about the ever > expanding misuse of copyright law willing speak out on the > dangerous precedent being set here by this court ruling. > Hopefully Soniclue will be able to overturned the ruling on > appeal. > > Thanks, > Richard M. Smith > http://www.ComputerBytesMan.com > > ============================================================ > > SonicBlue ordered to track ReplayTV users' viewing choices > > By Dawn C. Chmielewski > Mercury News > > http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3186191.htm > > A federal magistrate in Los Angeles has ordered SonicBlue to > spy on thousands of digital video recorder users -- > monitoring every show they record, every commercial they > skip and every program they send electronically to a friend. > > Central District Court Magistrate Charles F. Eick told > SonicBlue to gather ``all available information'' about how > consumers use the Santa Clara company's latest generation > ReplayTV 4000 video recorders, and turn the information over > to the film studios and television networks suing it for > contributing to copyright infringement. > > ..... > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 3 11:43:14 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Objection Message-ID: <02050309431401.06620@aether> Hello: Please do not forget that the Internet was designed for communications, and never, never, never intended to be a "content delivery" system. It never, never will be a "content delivery" system, unless it is dismantled and replaced with some other system not now or in the foreseeable future, possible. Respectfully, Tom Poe Reno, NV From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 3 11:45:37 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Linux Classes Message-ID: <02050309453702.06620@aether> Hello: Let us know if we can assist from out in Reno, NV. Thanks, Tom Poe http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 3 12:00:17 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Legal questions [was Re: They changed the site! ( was Re: [OS:N:] Donated PCs) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020503111454.09bd7bf8@pop3.daukas.com> References: <3CD2831A.5040202@suscom.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020503104325.09bb3500@pop3.daukas.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020503111454.09bd7bf8@pop3.daukas.com> Message-ID: <02050310001703.06620@aether> Hi: I have bought a computer with M$95 on it. I now reformat the hard drive and install Debian Potatoev2.4 on it. I now reformat the drive and install M$98 on it. Am I legally able to donate that computer to a school without the M$95 documentation? Give me a break! . . . . . Until they point to a specific law that states unequivocally that there is a legal requirement, etc., their statement is FALSE. And, it is important that that action [web page] must be retracted, in the name of preserving the concept of Donated Computers. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Friday 03 May 2002 08:21, Stephen C. Daukas wrote: > At 11:03 AM 5/3/2002, you wrote: > >Stephen C. Daukas wrote: > >>In my humble opinion, I think it is time to talk to folks > >>trained/practicing in this area of law (friends, family, etc.) before we > >>make any representations about what is legal, what isn't, and what the > >>"grey area" does or doesn't mean, before we go after Microsoft > >> half-cocked. Steve > > > >Easy answer, we don't make any claims about what is legal. We don't go > >after Microsoft. We simply state that Free/Open Source software is a > >really nice way to utilize donated PC's and avoid problems with software > >license fees. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Fine, if you are talking about Open Source in general, but the point of > this press release/response that has been discussed here, so far at least, > is to say that what Microsoft is doing is wrong, Microsoft's > representations of the facts are wrong or misleading, and GNU/Linux is a > way out. If your are going to make that claim, especially in the name of > 70+ organizations, you should understand what the implications are and you > had better be right! From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 3 12:07:05 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: ECFS Reply Objection In-Reply-To: <200205031643.MAA22029@fccsun24w> References: <200205031643.MAA22029@fccsun24w> Message-ID: <02050310070504.06620@aether> Hi: Here's a new game I haven't seen before. Tricky. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV On Friday 03 May 2002 09:43, Generic ecfs Account(Bill Cline wrote: > ECFS Received your Submission/Request at 05/03/2002 12:43:13 Eastern Time > > Required tagged information '' is missing. > Required tagged information '' is missing. > Required tagged information '' is missing. > Invalid state ''. > Invalid document type ''. > > If you were attempting to file a comment, ECFS was unable to process > your comment at 05/03/2002 12:43:13 Eastern Time due to the 5 data > anomalies listed above. > > ----- Begin Included Message ----- > > >From tompoe@renonevada.net Fri May 3 12:43:13 2002 > > Return-Path: > Received: from gatekeeper2.fcc.gov by fccsun24w.fcc.gov (8.9.1/SMI-SVR4) > id MAA22005; Fri, 3 May 2002 12:43:13 -0400 (EDT) > Received: by gatekeeper2.fcc.gov; id MAA03480; Fri, 3 May 2002 12:43:11 > -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(216.105.206.146) by gatekeeper2.fcc.gov > via smap (V5.5) id xma003454; Fri, 3 May 02 12:43:06 -0400 > Received: from aether [209.160.51.204] by mail.uisreno.com > (SMTPD32-7.07) id AE284B50130; Fri, 03 May 2002 09:43:20 -0700 > From: tom poe > Reply-To: tompoe@renonevada.net > Organization: Salta Monte Solutions, Inc. > To: ecfs@fcc.gov > Subject: Objection > Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:43:14 -0700 > X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Cc: "CommStudios" , > "DMCA" , > "Reno_Perl_Group" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Message-Id: <02050309431401.06620@aether> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Hello: Please do not forget that the Internet was designed for > communications, and never, never, never intended to be a "content delivery" > system. It never, never will be a "content delivery" system, unless it is > dismantled and replaced with some other system not now or in the > foreseeable future, possible. > Respectfully, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > > ----- End Included Message ----- From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 3 12:21:15 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Objection In-Reply-To: <3CD2C23D.6030504@mindspring.com> References: <02050309431401.06620@aether> <3CD2C23D.6030504@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <02050310211505.06620@aether> Hi: Well, he better get busy and undo the damage, eh? Thanks, Tom Poe http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Friday 03 May 2002 10:00, mickey wrote: > The Internet was originally restricted from just that, and I think it > would be educational to read the legislation mentioned below. > This is from an interview with Boucher: > http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-3219397-8-9792032-1.html?txt > ======================================== > M: OK. So how long would you say that you've been online? > > B: I have been online since the early '90s. The first legislation that I > produced relating to the Internet was a bill to overturn a restriction > inside of the law that prohibited the Internet backbone from being used > for anything other than research and scientific and educational > communication. > > M: Interesting. > > B: The effect of that restriction, which was known as the acceptable-use > policy, prohibited electronic commerce, and the first Internet-related > legislation that I sponsored, which was in 1992, repealed the > acceptable-use policy and thereby enabled the Internet to be used for > electronic commerce. So I have been involved in Internet-related policy > for approximately one decade, and I have been using the Internet myself > for almost that period of time. > ======================================== > > It sounds like another law that shouldn't have passed, > MickeyM > > tom poe wrote: > >Hello: Please do not forget that the Internet was designed for > >communications, and never, never, never intended to be a "content > > delivery" system. It never, never will be a "content delivery" system, > > unless it is dismantled and replaced with some other system not now or in > > the foreseeable future, possible. > >Respectfully, > >Tom Poe > >Reno, NV > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > >------------------------ > >http://www.anti-dmca.org > >------------------------ > > > >DMCA_Discuss mailing list > >DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > >http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 3 13:21:07 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] FC: Roger Parloff: DMCA is sensible, but Hollings bill is plain nuts In-Reply-To: <20020503101851.E83703@networkcommand.com> References: <20020503101851.E83703@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <02050311210700.06991@aether> Hi: Applause for the controversial Roger. Now, with his "reborn" conscience, I wonder if he'll back it up with some comments about Sonic Blue, and then rephrase his distinction between computers and devices, such that the general public can understand that we're all in deep, deep trouble. thanks, Tom Poe http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Friday 03 May 2002 10:18, Jon O. wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > > X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 > Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 00:57:54 -0400 > To: politech@politechbot.com > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: FC: Roger Parloff: DMCA is sensible, but Hollings bill is plain > nuts > Precedence: normal > Reply-To: declan@well.com > X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ > X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ > X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ > X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FOR_FREE,AWL version=2.21 > X-Spam-Level: > > Politechnicals may recall that Roger wrote a just-somewhat-controversial > "Jail Dmitry!" column last year applauding the criminal prosecution under > the DMCA: > http://www.politechbot.com/p-02360.html > > Politech archive on CBDTPA: > http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=cbdtpa > > -Declan > > --- > > From: "Roger Parloff" > To: "Declan McCullagh" > Subject: re CBDTPA > Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:16:48 -0400 > > in case your readers are interested. (from the may issue of the american > lawyer, also available on www.law.com . i think it's > free everywhere (and will remain free). > > direct link: > ew&c=Article&cid=ZZZT275QM0D&live=true&cst=1&pc=0&pa=0>http://www.law.com/cg >i-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=law/View&c=Article&cid=ZZZT27 >5QM0D&live=true&cst=1&pc=0&pa=0 > > A Fence Too Far > > Why government regulators must recognize the difference between a computer > and a VCR > > Roger Parloff > The American Lawyer > April 29, 2002 > > Amid all the vexing legal dilemmas that have been spawned as copyright > owners try to secure their rights in a suddenly digital world, a > refreshingly simple issue has finally emerged. > > Whether you believe that this country should be tightening copyright > protections online or loosening them, you should oppose the Hollywood- and > record industry-endorsed bill introduced in March by Sen. Ernest Hollings > of South Carolina. While the draft legislation, known as the Consumer > Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act, pursues plausible goals, it > seeks to achieve them by authorizing mammoth government intrusion into the > design of computer hardware and software. > > The driving force behind the bill is not, as some critics have reflexively > claimed, an attempt by copyright holders to deprive consumers of their > "right" (i.e., their current ability) to make personal copies of music or > movies for home use. The driving force, in fact, is just the opposite. > > Both the music and film industries have discovered that it is > technologically feasible to devise systems that enable consumers to make > personal copies of digital files -- music, movies, video -- while > preventing them from widely distributing those files over the Internet via, > for instance, Napster-style file-sharing programs. If such a system were in > place, consumers could, for instance, "rip" tracks from a CD, transfer them > to portable music players, and yet not be able to make the file available > to millions of strangers for free. > > Since 1995 cross-industry working groups have discussed adoption of "open > standards" that might facilitate such systems. The systems most commonly > discussed rely upon a combination of both encryption and digital > watermarking technologies. It would be quite possible today for, say, > Warner Music Group to enter into private contracts with a device maker -- > say, Toshiba -- to build a set of secure devices that use an encryption > system designed by, for instance, InterTrust Technologies and a watermark > designed by, say, Verance Corp. The problem with doing so is that Universal > Music Group and its partners in the electronics and information technology > industries might choose a competing system, relying upon Microsoft-designed > encryption and a Digimarc watermark; Bertelsman Music Group might opt for > yet a third system, and so on. Portable devices or CD players that could > play only one label's secure music would be worthless to consumers, while > devices that could play all five major labels' music would be prohibitively > expensive and cumbersome. > > Until consensus can be reached on a single industrywide security system, > all such systems are stymied. Thus far, however, conflicting commercial > strategies have made consensus impossible. In the wake of the breakdown of > the music industry's security standards talks last year, individual labels > have turned to technologically simpler but more draconian solutions, like > selling copy-protected CDs that won't play on computers at all. These > cruder solutions really do stop consumers from making "personal copies." > > The Hollings legislation seeks to break the logjam by issuing an ultimatum > to the information technology and consumer electronics industries: You will > have one year to arrive at consensus security system standards -- or else. > Thereafter the Federal Communications Commission could impose security > standards with which all manufacturers of "digital media devices" would > have to comply. The definition of such a device is so broad that, as > professor Justin Hughes of the University of California, Los Angeles, > School of Law told a Senate committee in March, it encompasses "every piece > of software, PC, video card, hard drive, CPU, motherboard, PDA, DVD, or CD > player, and every monitor manufactured or distributed in our country." > > The prospect of gumming up the works of the globe's most exuberant engine > of technological innovation and prosperity by subjecting it to bureaucratic > notice-and-comment rule-making is unthinkable. Though there are a handful > of precedents for modest government intervention into consumer electronics > design, at least one of those -- the 1992 requirement that digital > audiotape recorders be equipped with a "serial copying management system" > -- was a notorious commercial and technological failure. > > More important, there are cultural distinctions between a consumer's > passive relationship with the single-function consumer electronics devices > of the past (a TV, VCR or CD player) and his or her interactive > relationship with today's computers and software. Computer users > continually invent and discover new functions for their machines, by adding > peripheral devices and feeding the computer new software or even designing > their own. It is more important to lock the government outside of our > computers than it ever was to lock it outside our appliances. > > I have frequently sided with the protectionists in the digital copyright > showdowns to date. I thought Napster was illegal, for instance, and think > the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (which prohibits disseminating > software designed to strip copy-protection off the files of copyrighted > works) is sensible and constitutional. But certain lines must not be > crossed in the quest to secure creators' digitized intellectual property. > Sen. Hollings' bill transgresses those lines by a country mile. > > Though my guess is that creators can adequately protect their digital wares > without legislation of this sort, if events should prove me wrong, the > Hollings legislation should still be defeated. If controlling digital > property requires government intervention on this scale, then there should > be no such control. Digital technology will have rebuffed the legal > system's attempts to tame it, anti-protectionists will have won the war, > and it will be time for protectionists like me to raise the white flag. We > can't imperil everyone's freedom and prosperity in a quixotic quest. The > game has to end somewhere. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list > You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. > To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html > This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ > Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Sign this pro-therapeutic cloning petition: http://www.franklinsociety.org > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From admin at seattle-chat.com Fri May 3 13:37:43 2002 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Movie and TV Industries Force SonicBlue to Spy on Customers In-Reply-To: <02050309392100.06620@aether> Message-ID: Actually it does want me to go and buy one just to support them, this stupid order is beyond this judges jurisdiction: (Basically they would have to get court orders for every individual that owns a replay tv, and show some evidence they are violating some law.) Cable TV Privacy act of 1984 h) Disclosure of information to governmental entity pursuant to court order A governmental entity may obtain personally identifiable information concerning a cable subscriber pursuant to a court order only if, in the court proceeding relevant to such court order - (1) such entity offers clear and convincing evidence that the subject of the information is reasonably suspected of engaging in criminal activity and that the information sought would be material evidence in the case; and (2) the subject of the information is afforded the opportunity to appear and contest such entity's claim. -----Original Message----- From: dmca_discuss-admin@lists.microshaft.org [mailto:dmca_discuss-admin@lists.microshaft.org]On Behalf Of tom poe Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 9:39 AM To: Seth Johnson; C-FIT_Community@realmeasures.dyndns.org; C-FIT_Release_Community@realmeasures.dyndns.org; fairuse-discuss@mrbrklyn.com; DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org Cc: CommStudios; Reno_Perl_Group; Seul.org Subject: Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Movie and TV Industries Force SonicBlue to Spy on Customers Hi: Gee, this sounds like a good deal. Makes you want to run out and buy one, eh? Sort of fits with the RIAA toilet dilemma for viewer position they've adopted. "A federal magistrate in Los Angeles has ordered SonicBlue to spy on thousands of digital video recorder users -- monitoring every show they record, every commercial they skip and every program they send electronically to a friend." `It's an incredible invasion of privacy,'' said Fred von Lohmann, an intellectual property expert for the Electronic Frontier Foundation. ``But second -- and equally important -- is what the Electronic Frontier Foundation and others have been saying was going to happen now for some time. Basically, under the guise of copyright laws, courts are going to be put in a position of telling technology companies how to build their products.'' The above quotes leave no doubt in my mind that M$ is celebrating, and rolling out their DRM with additional privacy intrusion features, they never thought possible. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Friday 03 May 2002 06:59, Seth Johnson wrote: > (Forwarded from Free Dmitry Sklyarov list, > free-sklyarov@zork.net) > > -------- Original Message -------- > Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:49:04 -0400 > From: "Richard M. Smith" > > > Hi, > > The copyright battle between content companies and > technology companies hit a new all-time low yesterday in Los > Angeles. According to an article in the San Jose Mercury > News, a federal judge in Los Angeles, at the request of > major movie studios and TV networks, is compelling SonicBlue > to spy on the viewing habits of individual ReplayTV > customers. SonicBlue doesn't have this type of tracking > software today, but was given 60 days by the court to create > it and install it on customer ReplayTV boxes using the > auto-update feature of the boxes. > > This move by the court and content companies is exactly the > problem I warned about on March 1, 2002 in a piece I did on > Senator Hollings's proposed CBDTPA bill. This piece can be > found here at my Web site: > > Anti-piracy technology means more surveillance, less > privacy > http://www.computerbytesman.com/copyprotect/hollings.htm > > I hope that everyone who is concerned about the ever > expanding misuse of copyright law willing speak out on the > dangerous precedent being set here by this court ruling. > Hopefully Soniclue will be able to overturned the ruling on > appeal. > > Thanks, > Richard M. Smith > http://www.ComputerBytesMan.com > > ============================================================ > > SonicBlue ordered to track ReplayTV users' viewing choices > > By Dawn C. Chmielewski > Mercury News > > http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3186191.htm > > A federal magistrate in Los Angeles has ordered SonicBlue to > spy on thousands of digital video recorder users -- > monitoring every show they record, every commercial they > skip and every program they send electronically to a friend. > > Central District Court Magistrate Charles F. Eick told > SonicBlue to gather ``all available information'' about how > consumers use the Santa Clara company's latest generation > ReplayTV 4000 video recorders, and turn the information over > to the film studios and television networks suing it for > contributing to copyright infringement. > > ..... > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_Discuss mailing list DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From elawson at lawson-philpot.com Fri May 3 22:47:17 2002 From: elawson at lawson-philpot.com (Ed Lawson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Legal questions [was Re: They changed the site! ( was Re: [OS:N:] Donated PCs) In-Reply-To: <02050310001703.06620@aether> References: <3CD2831A.5040202@suscom.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020503104325.09bb3500@pop3.daukas.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020503111454.09bd7bf8@pop3.daukas.com> <02050310001703.06620@aether> Message-ID: <20020503224717.2308f1a8.elawson@lawson-philpot.com> On Fri, 3 May 2002 10:00:17 -0700 tom poe wrote: > Until they point to a specific law that states > unequivocally that there is a legal requirement, etc., their statement is > FALSE. Perhaps this type of logic get points in debate competition, but I doubt anywhere else. The issue is not whether there is a law somewhere "that states unequivocally". Don't even think laws tend to state anything unequivocally. That is why people go to Law School. The issue is what is required by the MS EULA. Read the EULA. I believe it says the software can only be used on the machine with which it was purchased. If the OS is upgraded, the original software license melts with the upgrade and you still only have one license and it must be used with the original machine. None of which means a person cannot donate a machine without an OS. I will leave to others to impute motives in making statements which imply the MS EULA requires the original licensed OS to go with a donated machine. The answer is yes it must if the machine is donated with the same or an upgrade version of the same MS OS on the machine when first purchased. MS assumes, naturally, that the donated computer is an Intel box and has a MS OS on it. Its statement makes sense when those assumptions are made and assuming people visiting the MS website are looking for information about Intel boxes with an MS OS is not irrational. What is irrational is the willingness of others to think the statments are ones of general application concerning donated computers and to repeat them as such. Ed Lawson BTW, I am a lawyer and I have some familiarity with the copyright laws and software licensing From anatoly at total-knowledge.com Sat May 4 15:20:52 2002 From: anatoly at total-knowledge.com (Anatoly Volynets) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Copyright is essentially wrong (I'm surprised no one's mentioned this from today's) In-Reply-To: <02050211223701.32405@aether> References: <02050211223701.32405@aether> Message-ID: <20020504202059.1212.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> On Thursday 02 May 2002 11:22 am, tom poe wrote: > Hi: My understanding of this concept, is that if we create a > transformative work, it must be "approved" by the original copyright > holder. Or, the work has to wait until the copyright is ended. Since we > all agree [I hope], that all works are based on previous knowledge and > experience, i.e., from ideas and expressions that came before, it flies in > the face of advancement to think copyrights are deserving of "life unto > perpetuity". Under our present system, Shakespear can sit and wait for > what, maybe another 150 years, and then publish his "original" work? > Why Shakespear should sit and wait even one sec? It is wrong. Period Anatoly From anatoly at total-knowledge.com Sat May 4 17:22:28 2002 From: anatoly at total-knowledge.com (Anatoly Volynets) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Copyright is essentially wrong (I'm surprised no one's mentioned this from today's) In-Reply-To: <3CD20387.D3FF80F3@synchcorp.com> References: <02050211223701.32405@aether> <3CD20387.D3FF80F3@synchcorp.com> Message-ID: <20020504222231.2477.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> On Thursday 02 May 2002 08:27 pm, Alex wrote: > Ah, and here's were we start getting into the muddy waters of why > copyrights came into fashion in the first place. If the original author(s) > of 1001 Arabian Nights could have copyrighted their works, Disney couldn't > have made (alas, are STILL making) a gazillion bucks on Alladin's tale, > while they (or their descendants) make no money and live in relative > anonymity. Although copyrights are damaging to the creative process of > those not holding said copyrights, they do help to keep the copyright > holders from gettting totally screwed by companies that would abuse the > spirit of their creations. Some may abuse, some may not, it is not a meaningfull argument here. Suppose someone wants mock Disney's Alladin. I don't mind. "In a perfect world..." people would be > honorable, and not abuse creative people's inate generosity. In fact you cannot determine this at all. You may respect someone's idea and work and find out that the author thinks you are completelly wrong. This is very casual situation in the world of art and science. It is just normal, because real creators takes their ideas and works very personally and are very jelous about them. >However, as > long as we have the RIAA, Disney, Microsoft and other assimilators who take > credit and money for other people's work, it's either resort to the > protection copyrights afford, or resign yourself to the fact that you're > about to be majorly abused. Just remove 'However' and you are perfectly right. > > We need to get rid of people who would rape and pillage our knowledge and > creations, and the issue of copyrights would go away on its own. And THAT > would be a perfect world... > > Alex Heizer "Get rid of people" doesn't sound, does it? Think opposite: get rid of copyright (which is normal task in terms of law) and enjoy wide access to works of art, their derivatives and copies of any kind, whoever makes them. Anatoly From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun May 5 08:59:52 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tompoe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [seul-edu] Donated Computers announcement, Take III In-Reply-To: <200205011009.10729.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: Hi: Most impressive. Very polished. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Sun, 5 May 2002, Leon Brooks wrote: > Take 3, please criticise, and please offer more positive spin! > > --------8<----cut-here----8<-------- > > LINUX ENABLES SAFE COMPUTER DONATIONS TO SCHOOLS > > The Internet, Tuesday, 07 May 2002: In an official announcement from the > SchoolForge[0] group today, spokesman Leon Brooks refuted statements on > Microsoft's website which have been widely interpreted as a roadblock to the > acceptance of donated computers by schools and other needy organisations. > > "Using Linux, OpenOffice.org and other Open Source software, a school or > charity can safely accept almost any donated computer," he said. "Simply wipe > it and replace the software with Linux[1] and Open Source applications[2], > then use the computer as a powerful workstation or server. It's an excellent > idea to erase the existing operating system anyway - this also erases viruses > and trojan horses, protects the donor's privacy, and complies with the > typical EULA[3] - so why not install something better while you're there?" > > Mr Brooks also noted that Linux removed many of the burdens, costs and legal > risks of licence management and software asset auditing faced by all > businesses, organisations and individuals. > > The price tag is also attractive. "School decisions are often dominated by > cost; much Open Source software is available at little or no cost, and runs > well on donated computers," Mr Brooks explained, "Linux is easy to set up as > a fast diskless workstation or `thin client', so many schools are rolling out > networks using this technology with both donated and new equipment. > > "On top of this, Open Source software is immune to almost all existing > viruses, has an excellent security record, is extremely reliable, and in an > educational setting often provides a deeper involvement in computers than > programs deliberately designed for the classroom." > > The most important benefits were outlined[4] by Peruvian Congressmen Edgar > Núńez, Daniel Estrada and Jacques Ackerman after sponsoring a Bill to require > State agencies to use Open Source where possible: greater autonomy, > development of local talent, greater security, more complete accountability, > and adherence to standards (interoperability). The ecological advantages of > keeping computers and toxic parts out of landfill speak for themselves. > > "Microsoft claims on their website that `it is a legal requirement that > pre-installed operating systems remain with the computer for the life of the > machine',"[5] Brooks said, "I see this kind of problem often with Microsoft's > software, as with viruses and security issues. The approach that many > schools, charities and public bodies have taken is simply to use other > software without this handicap. This happened[6] when Oregon and Washington > schools recently found themselves being pushed into a software audit." > > The Simple End User Linux group has dozens of case studies from real schools > on line[7] showing the immediate financial advantages of this strategy, and > the K-12 Linux Terminal Server Project group[8] are recording the extensive > benefits of the thin-client approach. They have scores of real examples > submitted from real schools by the people using it on the front lines. > > Organisations of schools and charities[9] have been springing up to take > advantage of this newly publicised wealth of software. SchoolForge is one of > the many alliances formed to give schools a running start in Open Source. > > ABOUT SCHOOLFORGE > > SchoolForge[10], is a rapidly growing international coalition of over 70 > schools and education-related companies dedicated to enhancing communication, > sharing resources, and increasing the transparency of development in the > area. As well as providing documentation and experience, SchoolForge can > arrange to field volunteers to help schools and charitable organisations get > started in the stable, secure, safe world of Linux. > > SchoolForge is always looking for new associates. The benefits of united and > widespread negotiating power are considerable. > > ABOUT LEON BROOKS > > Leon Brooks[10] is computer consultant working from Perth, Western Australia. > Working through the consulting companies CyberKnights and Computer Clinic, > Leon has worked with Open Source operating systems (including LTSP) and > applications in a variety of businesses, private and State schools. Business > is booming, and both companies are interested in adding talented local Open > Source consultants to their teams. > > Leon also uses and recommends membership in the Perth Linux User Group. His > business is 100% Linux and Open Source, and so (except for one Macintosh) is > his household; there are Linux applications that his wife would fight to > keep. > > FOOTNOTES/RESOURCES > > [0] http://www.schoolforge.net/ > > [1] See http://www.linux.org/ - other good OS choices may be found at > http://www.freebsd.org/ http://www.openbsd.org/ http://www.netbsd.org/ > > [2] http://www.openoffice.org/ or http://www.koffice.org/ for excellent Open > Source office suites; http://www.mozilla.org/ or http://www.konqueror.org/ > for web browser suites; Mozilla or http://kmail.kde.org/ or > http://www.ximian.com/products/ximian_evolution/ for email clients. There > is an enormous list of Open Source applications at http://freshmeat.net/ > > [3] For example, the copy at http://nl.linux.org/geldterug/license.html says > "Microsoft may terminate this EULA [...and...] you must destroy all > copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT and all of its component parts." > > [4] http://www.gnu.org.pe/resmseng.html - at the time of writing, interest is > so intense that GNU Peru is redirecting queries to Google's cache of the > page to avoid overloading. > > [5] http://www.microsoft.com/education/?id=DonatedComputers first Q&A > question, as at 05 May 2002. > > [6] http://archives.seul.org/seul/edu/May-2002/msg00129.html (and see the > link), http://archives.seul.org/seul/edu/May-2002/msg00152.html and > http://archives.seul.org/seul/edu/May-2002/msg00129.html including these > notable quotes: `No one was talking about using software without > paying for it. It's just that when they came face to face with the power > an EULA gives MS, they saw things in a different light. MS software in > schools was seen as a logistical and financial liability when compared > with GPL licensed alternatives.' and `The Portland Public School > switchboard was jammed for two days with calls from Linux users > volunteering to come to PDX from all over the west coast to help with > software migration.' > > [7] http://casestudy.seul.org/ > > [8] http://www.k12ltsp.org/casestudy.html > > [9] Western Australia's Computer Angels[9a] already use Linux rather than risk > being destroyed at the whim of a well-supported business[9b] as `PCs for > Kids'[9c] effectively was late last year, and a similar organisation in > New Zealand was in 1997[9d]. On the other side of the coin, Linux > suppliers and users have a long tradition of supporting[9e] worthy > organisations. Larger and American organisations are not immune, there's a > long list victims[9f], with only one fine under USD$50,000 and some > exceeding USD$500,000. > > [9a] http://www.ca.asn.au/ > > [9b] http://www.bsaa.com.au/ > > [9c] http://www.pcsforkids.org/ > http://www.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/asia/08/09/aus.microsoftkids/ > > [9d] http://www.idg.net.nz/webhome.nsf/UNID/1B2EA829EEBB476CCC256A8F000AD1BE > > [9e] http://www.idgnet.co.nz/webhome.nsf/UNID/DC8B080246F1F98CCC256A940001A54C > > [9f] http://www.softwaremetering.com/fines.html > > [10] leon AT cyberknights DOT com DOT au; http://www.cyberknights.com.au/ > leon AT cclinic DOT com DOT au; http://www.cclinic.com.au/ > http://plug.linux.org.au/ > > --------8<----cut-here----8<-------- > > NOTES > > I'm not sure it's wise to link directly to archives of email including the > earlier versions of this document and discussion of it; it may be prudent to > place the messages linked to in reference 6 into a separate node on the SEUL > or SchoolForge website, and link to that instead. > > Cheers; Leon > > From newsletters at the-financial-news.com Sun May 5 16:38:41 2002 From: newsletters at the-financial-news.com (The Financial News) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Production Mini-plants in mobile containers. Co-investment Program Message-ID: The Financial News, May 2002 Production Mini-plants in mobile containers. Co-investment Program "...Science Network will supply to countries and developing regions the technology and the necessary support for the production in series of Mini-plants in mobile containers (40-foot). The Mini-plant system is designed in such a way that all the production machinery is fixed on the platform of the container, with all wiring, piping, and installation parts; that is to say, they are fully equipped... and the mini-plant is ready for production." More than 700 portable production systems: Bakeries, Steel Nails, Welding Electrodes, Tire Retreading, Reinforcement Bar Bending for Construction Framework, Sheeting for Roofing, Ceilings and Fa?ades, Plated Drums, Aluminum Buckets, Injected Polypropylene Housewares, Pressed Melamine Items (Glasses, Cups, Plates, Mugs, etc.), Mufflers, Construction Electrically Welded Mesh, Plastic Bags and Packaging, Mobile units of medical assistance, Sanitary Material, Hypodermic Syringes, Hemostatic Clamps, etc. Science Network has started a process of Co-investment for the installation of small Assembly plants to manufacture in series the Mini-plants of portable production on the site, region or country where they may be required. One of the most relevant features is the fact that these plants will be connected to the World Trade System (WTS) with access to more than 50 million raw materials, products and services and automatic transactions for world trade. Because of financial reasons, involving cost and social impact, the right thing to do is to set up assembly plants in the same countries and regions, using local resources (labor, some equipment, etc.) For more information: Mini-plants in mobile containers By Steven P. Leibacher, The Financial News, Editor Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles. Programa de Co-inversion "...Science Network suministrara a paises y regiones en vias de desarrollo la tecnologia y el apoyo necesario para la fabricacion en serie de Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles (40-foot). El sistema de mini-plantas esta dise?ado de forma que todas las maquinas de produccion van instaladas fijas sobre la propia plataforma del contenedor, con el cableado, tuberias e instalaciones; es decir, completamente equipadas... y a partir de ese momento est?n listas para producir." Mas de 700 sistemas de produccion portatil: Panaderias, Producci?n de clavos de acero, Electrodos para soldadura, Recauchutado de neumaticos, Curvado de hierro para armaduras de construccion, Lamina perfilada para cubiertas, techos y cerramientos de fachada, Bidones de chapa, Cubos de aluminio, Menaje de polipropileno inyectado, Piezas de melamina prensada (vasos, platos, tazas, cafeteras, etc.) Silenciadores para vehiculos, Malla electrosoldada para la construccion, Bolsas y envases de plastico, Unidades moviles de asistencia medica, Material sanitario (jeringas hipodermicas, Pinzas hemostaticas, etc.) Science Network ha puesto en marcha un proceso de Co-inversion para la instalacion de peque?as Plantas ensambladoras para fabricar en serie las Mini-plantas de produccion portatil, en el lugar, region o pais que lo necesite. Una de las caracter?sticas relevantes es el hecho de que dichas plantas quedaran conectadas al Sistema del Comercio Mundial (WTS) con acceso a mas de 50 millones de mercancias, materia primas, productos, servicios y las operaciones automaticas de comercio internacional. Resulta obvio que por razones economicas, de costes y de impacto social, lo apropiado es instalar plantas ensambladoras en los mismos paises y regiones asi como utilizar los recursos locales (mano de obra, ciertos equipamientos, etc.) Para recibir mas infromacion: Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles Steven P. Leibacher, The Financial News, Editor ------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you received this in error or would like to be removed from our list, please return us indicating: remove or un-subscribe in 'subject' field, Thanks. Editor ? 2002 The Financial News. All rights reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/renotahoe-pm/attachments/20020505/4d84814e/attachment.htm From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun May 5 20:29:11 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tompoe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Position statement of Open Source Schools Orgs Request Message-ID: Hello: Your article in Linux Magazine was excellent. I enjoyed reading what you had to say. http://www.linux-mag.com/2002-02/trench_01.html A Position statement in response to Microsoft's campaign to discourage, if not harm the concept of Donated Computers is being prepared. We would like to know [I speak for all of those actively involved, without their permission] if it would be permissable to quote your article, or, even better, if you have the time to review the Position statement and add a paragraph. I apologize for my enthusiasm in approaching you, but I think your lending your credentials and credibility, and, most importantly, your sincerity to this endeavor would be greatly appreciated by the readers. Respectfully, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From alex at synchcorp.com Mon May 6 23:46:24 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Copyright is essentially wrong (I'm surprised no one's mentioned this from today's) References: <02050211223701.32405@aether> <3CD20387.D3FF80F3@synchcorp.com> <20020504222231.2477.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> Message-ID: <3CD75C20.D4F81E0C@synchcorp.com> Anatoly Volynets wrote: > On Thursday 02 May 2002 08:27 pm, Alex wrote: > > Ah, and here's were we start getting into the muddy waters of why > > copyrights came into fashion in the first place. If the original author(s) > > of 1001 Arabian Nights could have copyrighted their works, Disney couldn't > > have made (alas, are STILL making) a gazillion bucks on Alladin's tale, > > while they (or their descendants) make no money and live in relative > > anonymity. Although copyrights are damaging to the creative process of > > those not holding said copyrights, they do help to keep the copyright > > holders from gettting totally screwed by companies that would abuse the > > spirit of their creations. > > Some may abuse, some may not, it is not a meaningfull argument here. Suppose > someone wants mock Disney's Alladin. I don't mind. Mocking anyone's art, copyrighted or not, is legal and falls under the umbrella of satire. I think the potential for abuse is a meaningful argument because nobody wants to be abused, and it's the overwhelming basis for why there are copyright laws in the first place. If we're ever going to achieve a copyrightless society (is that a word??) we need to acknowledge that it is the main argument for most artists. I believe that most, if not all, of the artists in the world (music and visual) want nothing more than for as many people as possible to enjoy and share their art. The one thing they fear the most is someone stealing their art and making a killing off of it behind their back. > "In a perfect world..." people would be > > honorable, and not abuse creative people's inate generosity. > > In fact you cannot determine this at all. You may respect someone's idea and > work and find out that the author thinks you are completelly wrong. This is > very casual situation in the world of art and science. It is just normal, > because real creators takes their ideas and works very personally and are > very jelous about them. I think most people can differentiate between Egon Schiele's homage to the Mona Lisa and Glade Plugins using The Scream in a commercial. I may not like Scheile's Mona Lisa, but I find the idea of it less offensive than the blatant commercialization and cheapening of what was, until the advertisement began airing, a very powerful and meaningful work of art. I think any artist that could not see the difference shouldn't be showing anyone their art because they're just a little too sensitive. > >However, as > > long as we have the RIAA, Disney, Microsoft and other assimilators who take > > credit and money for other people's work, it's either resort to the > > protection copyrights afford, or resign yourself to the fact that you're > > about to be majorly abused. > > Just remove 'However' and you are perfectly right. Thank you. > > > > We need to get rid of people who would rape and pillage our knowledge and > > creations, and the issue of copyrights would go away on its own. And THAT > > would be a perfect world... > > > > > Alex Heizer > > "Get rid of people" doesn't sound, does it? Think opposite: get rid of > copyright (which is normal task in terms of law) and enjoy wide access to > works of art, their derivatives and copies of any kind, whoever makes them. Again, I don't think most people would want to give up their copyrights knowing that there are those people that are just waiting to abuse their generosity. I'm not talking about myself here, necessarily, although it does make me nervous to think about an illustration with my name on it appearing on a poster put out by some guy in the south wearing a white hood talking about the virtues of Der Furher. I was emailed by a band the other day who wanted to use a painting of mine for their album cover. I let them use it with no problem (they were very courteous and offered to send me a few copies when the CD came out), but I couldn't help but think of this discussion and the issues involved. Merely saying "get rid of copyrights and it will all be okay" isn't the answer because there's always that spectre there. You're not giving people anything that makes them feel at ease with the idea. The problem still isn't copyrights, copyrights are a band-aid to help stop profiteers from bleeding everyone dry. The problem is the abuse by slimy jerks that have no creativity of their own who would steal everything from everyone else. If social values don't change at the root level, people will never feel comfortable giving up the safety-blanket of copyrights. If we push to abolish copyrights without fixing the real problem (abusers) we'll come off looking like the enemy because we forced people into giving up their creations against their will. Alex > Anatoly From §A¬O§_¤ Tue May 7 18:14:54 2002 From: §A¬O§_¤ (§A¬O§_¤) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: =?big5?Q?=A7A=ACO=A7_=A4]=A6=B3=A4=DF=B7Q=A7=EF=C5=DC?= Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From anatoly at total-knowledge.com Thu May 9 01:03:58 2002 From: anatoly at total-knowledge.com (Anatoly Volynets) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Citizens of Athens! Was: Copyright is essentially wrong In-Reply-To: <3CD75C20.D4F81E0C@synchcorp.com> References: <20020504222231.2477.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> <3CD75C20.D4F81E0C@synchcorp.com> Message-ID: <20020509060401.29081.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> > > > We need to get rid of people who would rape and pillage our knowledge > > > and creations, and the issue of copyrights would go away on its own. > > > And THAT would be a perfect world... > > > > > > > > > Alex Heizer > > > > "Get rid of people" doesn't sound, does it? Think opposite: get rid of > > copyright (which is normal task in terms of law) and enjoy wide access to > > works of art, their derivatives and copies of any kind, whoever makes > > them. > > Again, I don't think most people would want to give up their copyrights > knowing that there are those people that are just waiting to abuse their > generosity. I'm not talking about myself here, necessarily, although it > does make me nervous to think about an illustration with my name on it > appearing on a poster put out by some guy in the south wearing a white hood > talking about the virtues of Der Furher. I was emailed by a band the other > day who wanted to use a painting of mine for their album cover. I let them > use it with no problem (they were very courteous and offered to send me a > few copies when the CD came out), but I couldn't help but think of this > discussion and the issues involved. Merely saying "get rid of copyrights > and it will all be okay" isn't the answer because there's always that > spectre there. You're not giving people anything that makes them feel at > ease with the idea. The problem still isn't copyrights, copyrights are a > band-aid to help stop profiteers from bleeding everyone dry. The problem is > the abuse by slimy jerks that have no creativity of their own who would > steal everything from everyone else. If social values don't change at the > root level, people will never feel comfortable giving up the safety-blanket > of copyrights. If we push to abolish copyrights without fixing the real > problem (abusers) we'll come off looking like the enemy because we forced > people into giving up their creations against their will. > > Alex > Alex: I am glad you brought in few new points to land the problem on cultural fields. You want to control your work to protect it against abuse. You want to be the judge. Imagine, one day A Poet comes on Agora and says: Citizens of Athens! I brought in my new play (it never happened this way) and want you to judge it. You two ignorants in the first row on the left, close your ears: I do not want you to hear it at all. You in the second row on the right, please do not say a word: your vulgar speech does not fit in here, despite you do understand things. Those three friends in the middle of the last row do whatever you want here, but don't you dare to retell my play outside: you will forget the major point, I am sure... The point is that your creation, make a guess... does not belong to you. It belongs to me - your reader, listener, and so forth. I think I know who are the real and major pirates, abusers and thieves in cultural fields: those, who buy works (exclusive rights) out using laws, which protect 'rights to make copies'. Let's take one example. For me the 'Lord of the Rings' looks like abuse of the Tolkien's book. If rights to make a movie based on the book are not bought, then other movie, real work of art may appear, otherwise we are all stuck to the abuse. You cannot control turnover of the great creation. That is why great creators never care about it. They are sure in what they want to say to people and this is for people to decide what to do with it. Anatoly From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu May 9 15:00:11 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tompoe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Canada's on a roll - - - Message-ID: Hi: This reported by internet.com: http://isp-planet.com/politics/2002/canada_020509.html "The Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada (SOCAN) is winning a courtroom brawl against providers ranging from incumbent telephone carriers to mom-and-pop ISPs over Tariff 22, a piece of legislation that would charge service providers for music stored in caching servers and open the door for even more fees down the road by other industry organizations." Now, are you convinced this is an orchestrated assault on personal freedoms around the world, along with a deliberate design to "takeover" the Internet? No? Well, OK, I'll wait. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From Erik.Sliman at OpenStandards.net Thu May 9 18:34:44 2002 From: Erik.Sliman at OpenStandards.net (Erik Sliman) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Canada's on a roll - - - take back the Internet! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001b01c1f7b2$19e76900$0201a8c0@joshuabranch.com> The problem is clear to some of us. I'd like to hear more about the solution. How about: 1> We create a set of principles the majority of us can stand behind, designed to defend the people. These principles should summarize the current relationship between corporations, the government and the poeple, looking a bit like an upside down triangle, with the people at the bottom. They should be focussed on turning the triangle, so the people are at top, and the governments and corporations are at the bottom. They are here for us, not us for them. We the people need to be represented. 2> We create a campaign with an identity designed around these principles. Everyone everywhere can join, using the logos and IDs we espouse. 3> We create our own committees and strategize to reach our objectives. How do we turn the triangle? 4> Committees create directives. We follow the directives, resulting in carrots (vote yes for Representative Onourside, publicly support, etc,...), and sticks (boycott, voice opinion, vote no, etc,...). 5> We the people create a better world for our children. From here on forward, all corporations and government representatives or organizations will be held ACCOUNTABLE! What do you think? -----Original Message----- From: dmca_discuss-admin@lists.microshaft.org [mailto:dmca_discuss-admin@lists.microshaft.org]On Behalf Of tompoe Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 4:00 PM To: CommStudios Cc: Reno_Perl_Group; DMCA Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Canada's on a roll - - - Hi: This reported by internet.com: http://isp-planet.com/politics/2002/canada_020509.html "The Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada (SOCAN) is winning a courtroom brawl against providers ranging from incumbent telephone carriers to mom-and-pop ISPs over Tariff 22, a piece of legislation that would charge service providers for music stored in caching servers and open the door for even more fees down the road by other industry organizations." Now, are you convinced this is an orchestrated assault on personal freedoms around the world, along with a deliberate design to "takeover" the Internet? No? Well, OK, I'll wait. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_Discuss mailing list DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu May 9 20:34:33 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tompoe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Canada's on a roll - - - take back the Internet! In-Reply-To: <001b01c1f7b2$19e76900$0201a8c0@joshuabranch.com> Message-ID: Hi: Well put. We have an organization that may well satisfy most of the criteria, in place. In fact, there may be several. I recommend we all stand behind EFF.ORG [ http://www.eff.org/ ], make a commitment of $10 each, and stay on their butts until this thing gets done right! Eric, join, and find out how you can help. And, after you reach the $65 mark, you get a T-shirt. What needs to be done, is to get other stuff out there as well, as you said. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From Erik.Sliman at OpenStandards.net Thu May 9 21:23:14 2002 From: Erik.Sliman at OpenStandards.net (Erik Sliman) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Canada's on a roll - - - take back the Internet! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002801c1f7c9$a4335800$0201a8c0@joshuabranch.com> I have loved the EFF since its inception. You are so right. What do they is great. They have had a positive impact that already has ensured a different Internet for us today. I fear even they cannot respond strongly enough to every issue clarifying itself today. They are a voice giving vocal and legal representation to the people for some of the most critical issues today. Organizations such as the EFF can vocalize their support for the Union of Free People, along with other lone entities, under one unifying umbrella. They will continue under their own identity, organizations and directives, yet carry the backbone of a unifying identity with the clear purpose of representing the people, and the power to make it happen. Such a force can span all the continents, all languages, all people. It can become as popular as the Internet is today. In addition to declaring their political party, every politician will have to declare whether or not they support the principles of the Union of Free People. If they oppose the people, they will have to give account, publicly isolating themselves from the people in a publicly obvious manner. Contrast that to today, where with a few sentences they can justify the most hideous anti-people law while claiming to do it because they care about us. This is possible because the voice of the people is not clear. Sure, you and I hear it; but, without a unifying voice, does everyone else hear it? I want to see some real teeth. Talking about boycotting is one thing. Doing it is another. The people need to be unionized. We need to band together, stick together, and do what is necessary to secure freedom. In the end, we should not have to spend all of our time in the courtroom fighting to undo what our legislatures and corporations did, which, God bless the EFF, they have been doing for us. Rather, they should be consulting us before they even consider anything new! When our so called "representatives" know that they will only get re-elected when they have the support of the people, and the corporations know they will lose revenues without it, the people will be in control. I do not see any organization today likely to put those in power accountable to the people. JMHO, Erik -----Original Message----- From: tompoe [mailto:tompoe@renonevada.net] Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:35 PM To: Erik Sliman Cc: 'CommStudios'; 'Reno_Perl_Group'; 'DMCA' Subject: RE: [DMCA_Discuss] Canada's on a roll - - - take back the Internet! Hi: Well put. We have an organization that may well satisfy most of the criteria, in place. In fact, there may be several. I recommend we all stand behind EFF.ORG [ http://www.eff.org/ ], make a commitment of $10 each, and stay on their butts until this thing gets done right! Eric, join, and find out how you can help. And, after you reach the $65 mark, you get a T-shirt. What needs to be done, is to get other stuff out there as well, as you said. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From alex at synchcorp.com Thu May 9 22:21:49 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Citizens of Athens! Was: Copyright is essentially wrong References: <20020504222231.2477.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> <3CD75C20.D4F81E0C@synchcorp.com> <20020509060401.29081.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> Message-ID: <3CDB3CCD.97B04426@synchcorp.com> Anatoly Volynets wrote: > > > > We need to get rid of people who would rape and pillage our knowledge > > > > and creations, and the issue of copyrights would go away on its own. > > > > And THAT would be a perfect world... > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex Heizer > > > > > > "Get rid of people" doesn't sound, does it? Think opposite: get rid of > > > copyright (which is normal task in terms of law) and enjoy wide access to > > > works of art, their derivatives and copies of any kind, whoever makes > > > them. > > > > Again, I don't think most people would want to give up their copyrights > > knowing that there are those people that are just waiting to abuse their > > generosity. I'm not talking about myself here, necessarily, although it > > does make me nervous to think about an illustration with my name on it > > appearing on a poster put out by some guy in the south wearing a white hood > > talking about the virtues of Der Furher. I was emailed by a band the other > > day who wanted to use a painting of mine for their album cover. I let them > > use it with no problem (they were very courteous and offered to send me a > > few copies when the CD came out), but I couldn't help but think of this > > discussion and the issues involved. Merely saying "get rid of copyrights > > and it will all be okay" isn't the answer because there's always that > > spectre there. You're not giving people anything that makes them feel at > > ease with the idea. The problem still isn't copyrights, copyrights are a > > band-aid to help stop profiteers from bleeding everyone dry. The problem is > > the abuse by slimy jerks that have no creativity of their own who would > > steal everything from everyone else. If social values don't change at the > > root level, people will never feel comfortable giving up the safety-blanket > > of copyrights. If we push to abolish copyrights without fixing the real > > problem (abusers) we'll come off looking like the enemy because we forced > > people into giving up their creations against their will. > > > > Alex > > > Alex: I am glad you brought in few new points to land the problem on cultural > fields. You want to control your work to protect it against abuse. You want > to be the judge. > > Imagine, one day A Poet comes on Agora and says: > Citizens of Athens! I brought in my new play (it never happened this way) and > want you to judge it. You two ignorants in the first row on the left, close > your ears: I do not want you to hear it at all. You in the second row on the > right, please do not say a word: your vulgar speech does not fit in here, > despite you do understand things. Those three friends in the middle of the > last row do whatever you want here, but don't you dare to retell my play > outside: you will forget the major point, I am sure... > > The point is that your creation, make a guess... does not belong to you. It > belongs to me - your reader, listener, and so forth. > I think I know who are the real and major pirates, abusers and thieves in > cultural fields: those, who buy works (exclusive rights) out using laws, > which protect 'rights to make copies'. > Let's take one example. For me the 'Lord of the Rings' looks like abuse of > the Tolkien's book. If rights to make a movie based on the book are not > bought, then other movie, real work of art may appear, otherwise we are all > stuck to the abuse. > You cannot control turnover of the great creation. That is why great creators > never care about it. They are sure in what they want to say to people and > this is for people to decide what to do with it. > > Anatoly Exactly! I'm glad we agree on how the world SHOULD be. My works are for everyone, and I certainly hope you enjoy and share them with anyone who enjoys them. The URLs to do so are in my signature. Just give me credit when you do share them, please. :) Since copyrights came about as a response to ignorant people's abuse, specifically to protect those that have been abused, brought into law by those wishing to protect themselves, how do we assure those who feel they need to be protected by copyrights that they would be better off without them? The person in your example, unfortunately, does exist, in many artists. Artists that have grown up seeing that some people in the audience WILL mistreat their work, sometimes for commercial gain, sometimes for bad intents, sometimes out of incompetence. This is why so many artisits spend hours, days, weeks creating their magnum opus, only to show it quite secretively to a select group of friends, and no one else. My point is only, I am not prepared to have every creative person in the world resent me for taking away what little protection (real or perceived) they have based on MY own moral beliefs. I am, however, prepared to work with them to help create an environment that makes them feel free enough to let go their safety blanket on their own. You can't force someone to be free. That would be every bit as dictatorial as forcing them to be slaves. :) Alex Heizer http://www.synchcorp.com/alex http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon May 13 03:08:40 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Pact Reached Vs. "Pirating" Of Digital TV In-Reply-To: <3CDF54A6.3776DD93@RealMeasures.dyndns.org> References: <3CDF54A6.3776DD93@RealMeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <02051301084000.02770@aether> Hi: Yochi J. Dreazen and Stephanie Steizer are apparently two of the poorest journalists in America at this point. Had they visited http://bpdg.blogs.eff.org/ at any point, they would have been obligated to do further research before publishing such false and misleading information. It is now some two weeks or more later, and no retraction, no clarification of the issues, and no understanding of what this means to journalists in a free society. Shame on them both. Shame on their editor[s], and shame on the WSJ. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Sunday 12 May 2002 22:52, Seth Johnson wrote: > (Forwarded from NY Fair Use Discussion list, > fairuse-discuss@mrbrklyn.com) > > -------- Original Message -------- > Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 00:30:05 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jay Sulzberger > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:34:35 -0400 > From: R. A. Hettinga > To: Digital Bearer Settlement List , > cryptography@wasabisystems.com > > > http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,4287,SB1019779375174781800,00.html > > > > Pact Is Reached to Stop Pirating Of Digital TV Over the > Internet > > By YOCHI J. DREAZEN and STEPHANIE STEITZER > Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL > April 26, 2002 > > > > WASHINGTON -- Representatives from the entertainment and > consumer-electronics industries told lawmakers that they > have agreed on a system to keep digital television > broadcasts from being pirated over the Internet. > > The agreement resolves a dispute that has contributed to the > slow rollout of digital television. > > Top executives from content companies, including AOL Time > Warner Inc., and TV makers such as Panasonic/Matsushita > Electric Corp. of America told a House Energy and Commerce > Committee panel that they had agreed on technical standards > for a new "watermark." The watermark would be embedded in > all digital TV broadcasts, and TVs, computers and other > devices would be designed to play only materials with the > watermark. > > The executives said they planned to release the technical > details of the agreement on May 17, at which time they would > ask Congress to pass legislation ratifying the standards. > > "There are many issues that are basically solved" concerning > the watermark, said Paul Liao, chief technology officer for > Panasonic's American operations. > > The executives conceded that they remained far apart on a > range of other digital copyright issues, including the > nettlesome questions of how to prevent music and movies from > being illegally distributed over the Internet and how to > stop viewers from making and sharing digital copies of > analog TV broadcasts. > > Still, resolving the digital-TV question is an important > milestone that could boost the popularity of the highly > touted technology, which has yet to catch on with the > public. > > Broadcasters are supposed to convert all of their signals to > digital, but that transition has been slowed by piracy > concerns, the high cost of digital equipment and a paucity > of digital content. > > News Corp. President Peter Chernin said that the watermark > question was the "single biggest issue" slowing the spread > of digital television, and predicted that the agreement > would "rapidly speed up this transition." > > Parts of the agreement remain controversial. Lawrence > Blanford, the chief executive of Philips Consumer > Electronics North America, said that Congress should set the > standards itself to ensure that consumers' rights to record > digital television broadcasts and make copies for their own > legal use were protected. Most lawmakers, however, said they > preferred to ratify agreements developed by the private > sector. > > ----------------- > R. A. Hettinga > The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation > > 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA > "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and > antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been > found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline > and Fall of the Roman Empire' > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Cryptography Mailing List > Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to > majordomo@wasabisystems.com > > ____________________________ > New Yorkers for Fair Use - > because it's either fair use or useless.... > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon May 13 08:28:36 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Mixed Signals Message-ID: <02051306283600.03926@aether> Hi: At this point, it would appear that Tom Marchok needs to forward this second message [the first was a thank you to Intel and Les Vadasz] to Les Vadasz: Les: Your statement to Congress in February? was recognized at the time as a truly positive understanding of the problems facing the outrageous assault on American citizens' personal rights by a small group of companies [RIAA] through the CBDTPA proposed legislation. For that, we all took time to thank you. At this point, with Michael Ripley's acts as Co-Chair of the BPDG, your statements have taken on new meaning. It appears that you acted on behalf of Intel in order to disguise the true position of your company from being perceived by the American public, in order to further the cause of the RIAA, and technology companies to establish and "lock in" what seems to be an oligopoly that controls world governments, at the expense of democratic principles and personal freedoms. There is the appearance of some perverted logic that would have your company satisfied with halting technology, innovation, and creativity in the world, in order to "force-feed" your crippled products through legislated mandates. Participating in collusion with the RIAA, will not continue without the public's knowledge of such collusion being reported. You are engaging in illegal acts which border on governmental "takeover", and I for one, resent this as strongly as anything I have come up against before. Now is the time for you, and for Intel to step forward and declare your position on this legislation, knowing that the citizens of this country will support the position that benefits them, not the position that benefits corporate profits at the expense of personal freedoms and technological innovation in this country. Outraged and Concerned, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ -- Salta Monte Solutions, Inc. Ph: 775-772-1118 11590 Chesapeake Drive Fax: 775-337-2107 Reno, NV 89506-7927 tompoe@renonevada.net http://saltamontesolutions.com EID# 88-0489591 CAGE# 1TPP2 DUNS# 015599363 CCR and SBA Pro-Net Registered NDOT Certification denied 03/06/02 -------------------------------------- Take Back The Net! http://www.anti-dmca.org -------------------------------------- From tom.marchok at intel.com Mon May 13 09:36:27 2002 From: tom.marchok at intel.com (Marchok, Tom) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Mixed Signals Message-ID: <10C8636AE359D4119118009027AE9987169BBA4F@fmsmsx34.fm.intel.com> Mr. Poe, I am forwarding your note to Shawn Clark (Shawn.Clark@intel.com), who presently serves as Technical Assistant to Les Vadasz. Tom -----Original Message----- From: tom poe [mailto:tompoe@renonevada.net] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 6:29 AM To: Michael Cc: tom.marchok@intel.com; CommStudios; DMCA; Reno_Perl_Group Subject: Mixed Signals Hi: At this point, it would appear that Tom Marchok needs to forward this second message [the first was a thank you to Intel and Les Vadasz] to Les Vadasz: Les: Your statement to Congress in February? was recognized at the time as a truly positive understanding of the problems facing the outrageous assault on American citizens' personal rights by a small group of companies [RIAA] through the CBDTPA proposed legislation. For that, we all took time to thank you. At this point, with Michael Ripley's acts as Co-Chair of the BPDG, your statements have taken on new meaning. It appears that you acted on behalf of Intel in order to disguise the true position of your company from being perceived by the American public, in order to further the cause of the RIAA, and technology companies to establish and "lock in" what seems to be an oligopoly that controls world governments, at the expense of democratic principles and personal freedoms. There is the appearance of some perverted logic that would have your company satisfied with halting technology, innovation, and creativity in the world, in order to "force-feed" your crippled products through legislated mandates. Participating in collusion with the RIAA, will not continue without the public's knowledge of such collusion being reported. You are engaging in illegal acts which border on governmental "takeover", and I for one, resent this as strongly as anything I have come up against before. Now is the time for you, and for Intel to step forward and declare your position on this legislation, knowing that the citizens of this country will support the position that benefits them, not the position that benefits corporate profits at the expense of personal freedoms and technological innovation in this country. Outraged and Concerned, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ -- Salta Monte Solutions, Inc. Ph: 775-772-1118 11590 Chesapeake Drive Fax: 775-337-2107 Reno, NV 89506-7927 tompoe@renonevada.net http://saltamontesolutions.com EID# 88-0489591 CAGE# 1TPP2 DUNS# 015599363 CCR and SBA Pro-Net Registered NDOT Certification denied 03/06/02 -------------------------------------- Take Back The Net! http://www.anti-dmca.org -------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon May 13 16:34:45 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Fwd: [DMCA_Discuss] Lessig starts "Creative Commons" group Message-ID: <02051314344502.05960@aether> Hi: This informal announcement is to be followed by formal announcement on Thursday. Exciting news. thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] Lessig starts "Creative Commons" group Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:31:11 -0700 From: "Jon O." To: dmca_discuss@lists.microshaft.org ----- Forwarded message from David Ascher ----- Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:48:50 -0700 From: David Ascher To: fork@xent.com Subject: Lessig starts "Creative Commons" group This report from the O'Reilly conference, off of the NYT -- apologies if it's old bits; http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/13/technology/13FREE.html?pagewanted=print&pos ition=top A New Direction for Intellectual Property By Amy Harmon Perceiving an overly zealous culture of copyright protection, a group of law and technology scholars are setting up Creative Commons, a nonprofit company that will develop ways for artists, writers and others to easily designate their work as freely shareable. Creative Commons, which is to be officially announced this week at a technology conference in Santa Clara, Calif., has nearly a million dollars in start-up money. The firm's founders argue that the expansion of legal protection for intellectual property, like a 1998 law extending the term of copyright by 20 years, could inhibit creativity and innovation. But the main focus of Creative Commons will be on clearly identifying the material that is meant to be shared. The idea is that making it easier to place material in the public domain will in itself encourage more people to do so. The firm's first project is to design a set of licenses stating the terms under which a given work can be copied and used by others. Musicians who want to build an audience, for instance, might permit people to copy songs for noncommercial use. Graphic designers might allow unlimited copying of certain work as long as it is credited. The goal is to make such licenses machine-readable, so that anyone could go to an Internet search engine and seek images or a genre of music, for example, that could be copied without legal entanglements. "It's a way to mark the spaces people are allowed to walk on," said Lawrence Lessig, a leading intellectual property expert who will take a partial leave from Stanford Law School for the next three years to serve as the chairman of Creative Commons. Inspired in part by the free-software movement, which has attracted thousands of computer programmers to contribute their work to the public domain, Creative Commons ultimately plans to create a "conservancy" for donations of valuable intellectual property whose owners might opt for a tax break rather than selling it into private hands. The firm's board of directors includes James Boyle, an intellectual property professor at Duke Law School; Hal Abelson, a computer science professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology; and Eric Saltzman, executive director of the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard Law School. http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_Discuss mailing list DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss ------------------------------------------------------- -- Salta Monte Solutions, Inc. Ph: 775-772-1118 11590 Chesapeake Drive Fax: 775-337-2107 Reno, NV 89506-7927 tompoe@renonevada.net http://saltamontesolutions.com EID# 88-0489591 CAGE# 1TPP2 DUNS# 015599363 CCR and SBA Pro-Net Registered NDOT Certification denied 03/06/02 -------------------------------------- Take Back The Net! http://www.anti-dmca.org -------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon May 13 16:57:59 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [school-discuss] Another threat In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020513140528.00a027b0@email.pasco.wednet.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020513140528.00a027b0@email.pasco.wednet.edu> Message-ID: <02051314575903.05960@aether> Hello: I went to the aacc site and selected "contact us" and filled in the form as seen below. You might want to do the same for both the aacc and washington state community college association, or whatever it is there. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ http://www.aacc.nche.edu/ Hello: Does the AACC have an exclusive license with Microsoft to provide services, equipment, etc. in our Community Colleges across the country? Also, I am interested in determining whether community colleges are allowed to install and operate Linux OS on equipment without violating the agreement AACC has with Microsoft. On Monday 13 May 2002 14:14, Kevin Stiles wrote: > Greeting! > > I just finished an argument with our Bus. Ed. department about what they > needed to be able to teach various office type classes at our High > School. I lost. > > In Washington State, all Bus Ed. teachers who are teaching office type > products are REQUIRED to be certified in the appropriate area. So far the > only reference I can find in the state's information is MOUS (Microsoft) > certification. With this in place it will be extremely difficult for any > alternative software to get into our schools. > > The link is: > > http://www.k12.wa.us/careerteched/busmark/training.asp > and > http://www.nwcet.org/viewarticle.aps?art=10 > > Any ideas how to fight this? Without it repealed Washington State is dead > in the water at the Staff level, at least with the most vocal of the > teachers involved. > > ThanX! > > Kevin Stiles > Pasco School District From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon May 13 19:38:04 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Fwd: Re: BPDG: Revised requirements draft proposal Message-ID: <02051317380400.07009@aether> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: BPDG: Revised requirements draft proposal Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:34:58 -0400 From: "Bradley M. Kuhn" To: bpdg-tech@list.lmicp.com "Bradley M. Kuhn" Dear Michael, co-chairs, and fellow BPDG members, I am the executive director of the Free Software Foundation. I was only recently made aware of the activities of the BPDG, and thus am a late comer to the discussion. However, according to the CPTWG, this subgroup is open to all organizations who have an interest in its recommendations. Having read the relevant material, it is clear that the requirements on "Covered Products" set forth in the Revised Requirements Draft Proposal will have a direct and negative impact the work of Free Software developers, and thus a direct impact on the Free Software Foundation. Before I discuss the details of that impact on Free Software, I will give some brief background on our organization. The Free Software Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit that was founded in 1985. We promote and create software that is Free as in freedom; the user has the freedom to copy, redistribute, and modify all Free Software. In the 1980s, we started development of a completely Free Software Unix-compatible operating system, called GNU. Available today as modern GNU/Linux systems (whose name is often shortened to "Linux"), this operating system has an estimated twenty million users worldwide. GNU/Linux is widely used and redistributed by large corporations such as IBM and HP. While the system has thousands of contributors, FSF remains the largest single copyright holder of the core GNU/Linux system. >From my understanding of your requirements draft, it is likely that a GNU/Linux system and other related Free Software will eventually be considered Covered Products. Currently, many people use GNU/Linux systems to view television broadcasts; I doubt this will change as HDTV becomes more widespread. Thus, FSF is gravely concerned about what this proposal will mean for GNU/Linux as a Covered Product. Most Free Software that can decode broadcast signals would not typically fit the requirements in Sections 3.a and 3.b of the proposal. However, even if Free Software developers did make efforts to implement those restrictions, it would be utterly impossible to adhere to most of the other requirements in the proposal---in particular, but not limited to, Sections 7.a, 7.c, 11.a, and 11.b. Free Software is designed around the idea of sharing information and advancing human knowledge---the core principles that made the modern advent of digital technology possible. FSF and Free Software developers around the world share the source code of all Free Software programs. Free Software licenses give users the freedom to modify the software as they see fit. Thus, requiring a software product to "frustrate" the user is in direct conflict with users' ability to modify the software to suit their needs. We have no way to tell why the user would like to modify the software---perhaps it is for the purposes of infringing copyright, but usually it is not. Most of the time, users simply wish to enhance the software to fix bugs or make it work better for the community. Also, with Free Software, all of the generally available standard tools for analyzing software would show the user how to make modifications to the product. In fact, this is the goal; developers of Free Software are encouraged to improve it to help the community of users. Perhaps a few will "improve" it by causing it to violate Section 3 of your draft; most others will simply improve it to make it more robust, more reliable, and to provide better features. Since everyone agrees that adoption of digital television technology is important, it seems to me that this working group should seek a consensus that allows the largest possible Free market to innovate around digital technology. The proposed draft summarily dismisses Free Software from the innovation space, and I seen no easy way to repair the draft to treat Free Software on equal footing. I suggest the adoption of an alternative draft that asserts the rights of innovators to use Free Software in Covered Products. I believe that EFF has circulated such a draft. As it stands, FSF opposes the Revised Requirements Draft Proposal. Sincerely, Bradley Kuhn -- Bradley M. Kuhn, Executive Director Free Software Foundation | Phone: +1-617-542-5942 59 Temple Place, Suite 330 | Fax: +1-617-542-2652 Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA | Web: http://www.gnu.org ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon May 13 19:40:26 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Fwd: General Question Message-ID: <02051317402601.07009@aether> Hi: will keep you posted. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: General Question Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:49:02 -0500 From: edelmonte@aacc.nche.edu To: tompoe@renonevada.net The American Association of Community Colleges is a national voice for two-year associate degree granting institutions. AACC thanks you for your interest in higher education and community colleges. We will make every effort to respond to your request in a timely manner. If you need immediate assistance contact our Washington, DC office at 202-728-0200. Thank you, Erin Delmonte AACC Internet Content Coordinator ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon May 13 22:40:33 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Here's a Nunez from E. Miller at Yale . . . . Message-ID: <02051320403300.07724@aether> Hi: I think everyone will delight in Mr. Miller's destruction of the Dishonorable Hollings, Valenti, et al. Whoever has Howwwwliings address, I hope you will forward this to the shameful one directly for me, with my personal gesture of disrespect. Thanks, Tom Poe http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ http://www.lawmeme.org/ Features: The LawMeme Guide to Spider-Man and Star Wars Bootlegs Posted by Ernest Miller on Monday, May 13 @ 10:28:40 EDT From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon May 13 22:59:31 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Dallas Morning News Admits SLAPP Time vs. Barking Dogs . . . . Message-ID: <02051320593100.07773@aether> Hi: Nice work, Nader: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z5DD60BD A letter from the non-profit public advocacy group was sent today to Dallas-based Belo, which recently demanded that BarkingDogs.org, a local news Web site, stop deep linking to stories within The Dallas Morning News site, DallasNews.com. Instead, BarkingDogs should only link to the DallasNews home page, Belo's lawyers said in a cease-and-desist letter sent last month to self-proclaimed Net activist Avi S. Adelman, who publishes BarkingDogs. In a letter to Belo attorney J. Kevin Gray, Public Citizen attorney Paul Alan Levy disputed Belo's contention that deep linking without permission violates the newspaper's copyrights. Levy pointed to several court decisions which rejected the argument that deep links are copyright infringements. "[Belo's] contention that the provision of hyperlinks to locations within Belo's publicly available Web site violates the copyright laws unless permission is given for such links threatens the viability of the World Wide Web itself," Levy wrote. "Indeed, review of various Web sites operated by the Belo Corp. reveals that deep linking is a practice in which your own client is engaged." As IWantMedia.com reported last week, Belo's Providence (R.I.) Journal publishes a technology blog that deep links to other Web sites. (http://www.projo.com/technology/netrunner/) From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue May 14 11:06:28 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] FC: DMCA hoedown! Copyright fans party on Capitol Hill on Thursday In-Reply-To: <20020513224335.F14515@networkcommand.com> References: <20020513224335.F14515@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <02051409062800.10351@aether> Hi: Quite an impressive list of countries signing onto this piece, eh? Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Monday 13 May 2002 22:43, Jon O. wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > > X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 > Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 23:34:05 -0400 > To: politech@politechbot.com > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: FC: DMCA hoedown! Copyright fans party on Capitol Hill on Thursday > Precedence: normal > Reply-To: declan@well.com > X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ > X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ > X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ > X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=PLING,AWL version=2.21 > X-Spam-Level: > > Politech archive on DMCA: > http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=dmca > > --- > > fwd: > > * * * PRESS ADVISORY* * * > > WHAT: A celebration of the entry into force of the WIPO "Internet" > Treaties and to honor the authors and supporters of the Digital Millennium > Copyright Act hosted by: > > - Robert Holleyman, President & CEO, Business Software Alliance > - Douglas Lowenstein, President, Interactive Digital Software Association > - Jean Prewitt, President & CEO, America Film Marketing Association > - Hilary Rosen, President & CEO, Recording Association of America > - Patricia Schroeder, President & CEO, Association of American Publishers > - Eric H. Smith, President, International Intellectual Property Alliance > - Jack Valenti, President & CEO, Motion Picture Association of America > > WHEN: Thursday, May 16, 2002 > 1:30p 2:30p > > WHERE: Rayburn House Office Building, Room B-340 > > WHO: Invited Guests Include: > > The Honorable Joseph R. Biden, Jr. The Honorable Orrin G. Hatch > The Honorable Jesse Helms The Honorable Patrick J. Leahy > The Honorable Howard L. Berman The Honorable Howard Coble > The Honorable John Conyers, Jr. The Honorable John D. Dingell > The Honorable Barney Frank The Honorable Henry J. Hyde > The Honorable Edward J. Markey The Honorable Jim Sensenbrenner, Jr. > The Honorable W. J. "Billy" Tauzin > > Ambassadors from the following countries: Albania, Argentina, Belarus, > Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Croatia, Czech > Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Gabon, Georgia, Honduras, Hungary, > Indonesia, Japan, Kyrgyz Republic, Latvia, Lithuania, Mali, Mexico, > Moldova, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Romania, Saint Lucia, Senegal, Slovak > Republic, Slovenia and Ukraine > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list > You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. > To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html > This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ > Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Sign this pro-therapeutic cloning petition: http://www.franklinsociety.org > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From anatoly at total-knowledge.com Tue May 14 12:33:01 2002 From: anatoly at total-knowledge.com (Anatoly Volynets) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Citizens of Athens! Was: Copyright is essentially wrong In-Reply-To: <3CDB3CCD.97B04426@synchcorp.com> References: <20020509060401.29081.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> <3CDB3CCD.97B04426@synchcorp.com> Message-ID: <20020514173303.4686.qmail@gateway.total-knowledge.com> > > Alex: I am glad you brought in few new points to land the problem on > > cultural fields. You want to control your work to protect it against > > abuse. You want to be the judge. > > > > Imagine, one day A Poet comes on Agora and says: > > Citizens of Athens! I brought in my new play (it never happened this way) > > and want you to judge it. You two ignorants in the first row on the left, > > close your ears: I do not want you to hear it at all. You in the second > > row on the right, please do not say a word: your vulgar speech does not > > fit in here, despite you do understand things. Those three friends in the > > middle of the last row do whatever you want here, but don't you dare to > > retell my play outside: you will forget the major point, I am sure... > > > > The point is that your creation, make a guess... does not belong to you. > > It belongs to me - your reader, listener, and so forth. > > I think I know who are the real and major pirates, abusers and thieves in > > cultural fields: those, who buy works (exclusive rights) out using laws, > > which protect 'rights to make copies'. > > Let's take one example. For me the 'Lord of the Rings' looks like abuse > > of the Tolkien's book. If rights to make a movie based on the book are > > not bought, then other movie, real work of art may appear, otherwise we > > are all stuck to the abuse. > > You cannot control turnover of the great creation. That is why great > > creators never care about it. They are sure in what they want to say to > > people and this is for people to decide what to do with it. > > > > Anatoly > > Exactly! I'm glad we agree on how the world SHOULD be. My works are for > everyone, and I certainly hope you enjoy and share them with anyone who > enjoys them. The URLs to do so are in my signature. Just give me credit > when you do share them, please. :) > Everybody would be glad to find co-thinker, me too. So we do know now 'how the world should be'? The next question to answer is, how to get there? > Since copyrights came about as a response to ignorant people's abuse, > specifically to protect those that have been abused, brought into law by > those wishing to protect themselves, how do we assure those who feel they > need to be protected by copyrights that they would be better off without > them? Basically, disgusting idea of "copyright" = "right to make copies" came about as a response to the Guthenberg's press, which destroyed monopoly of licensed scribes. Fortunately they couldn't fight it right away, so book publishing in England had grown freely for more than two hundred years. When copyright was finally inlawed the quantity of books published in England decreased ten (!) times from 6000 to 600 (http://www.wipout.net/essays/0310guten.htm, all other essays there http://www.wipout.net/essays/ are quite useful to get the picture). I do not need any other argument against this completely abnormal, inhuman idea. >The person in your example, unfortunately, does exist, in many > artists. Artists that have grown up seeing that some people in the audience > WILL mistreat their work, sometimes for commercial gain, sometimes for bad > intents, sometimes out of incompetence. This is why so many artisits spend > hours, days, weeks creating their magnum opus, only to show it quite > secretively to a select group of friends, and no one else. > This is rather ill situation: an Author who afraids to go public? But copyright is here? What they afraid of? I am sorry, Alex, your argument doesn't work. A protection under copyright is illusion. I'd rather believe that copyright brings about those fears of your friends: somebody having money (=>lawyers) may steal a work anyway and have it protected forever. Under 'athorright' it cannot happen just because everybody may print and reprint your work and therefore sooner or later it becomes clear, where the origin is and which entity is dishonest using the work and not granting a credit to the real author. > My point is only, I am not prepared to have every creative person in the > world resent me for taking away what little protection (real or perceived) > they have based on MY own moral beliefs. I am, however, prepared to work > with them to help create an environment that makes them feel free enough to > let go their safety blanket on their own. You can't force someone to be > free. That would be every bit as dictatorial as forcing them to be slaves. > > :) > > Alex Heizer > http://www.synchcorp.com/alex > http://www.synchcorp.com/alexheizer > Well, I have never said that Author should not be protected. Some ideas must be articulated yet: how to protect 'authorright', how to ensure author's incentives (financial, legal, and others). Frankly, I just put aside 'positive thinking' in the meantime, because (we agree on that) I see very few people, who do realize abnormality and danger of the very idea of the 'right to make copies'. You may propose the best solutions for the problem and they will ask you: what is this for? Anatoly From panasync32 at yahoo.com Tue May 14 13:47:45 2002 From: panasync32 at yahoo.com (Gary Michaels) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Targeted Sales Leads Message-ID: <4159-220025214184745708@C0RE> I noticed your email address on a list serve related to technology and web development. Our company has developed a simple, risk-free and cost effective method of generating leads and creating awareness for your Company through targeted email marketing. Please read on to find out more about this awesome service. The process: You provide us with keywords pertaining to your company's target market. Using our proprietary spider software, we spider the Internet searching for email addresses that are on pages that match those keywords. We setup a database driven form, which allows the prospect to input their contact, company, and any other relative information that you may require. We send emails to the addresses collected. 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The above price is all-inclusive, and no other charges will be incurred. We can also provide higher quantities of distribution if required. Please contact us for details. If you would like more information on our services or would like to get started please click here Cordially, Gary Michaels -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/renotahoe-pm/attachments/20020514/1b7f1c87/attachment.htm From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue May 14 18:09:08 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: [webgroup] Creative Commons and licenses and copyright In-Reply-To: <13292.1021415459@dsl.org> References: <13292.1021415459@dsl.org> Message-ID: <02051416090801.11828@aether> Hi, Michael: The Creative Commons Project is dedicated to providing FREE legal services, which we recognize as a resource for analysis, and examples of licensing options for those who wish to consider sharing their works with others. The Public Domain approach, if-you-will. The Digital Age is upon us, and the question you pose is a good one. To rephrase your question, what has to happen to make already-existing free works compatible in the Digital Age? Well, the answer, is, - - - - drum roll, please - - - - The Creative Commons Project!!! We are most fortunate, and need to mark our calendars for this historic event. That's my opinion, anyway. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Tuesday 14 May 2002 15:30, Michael Stutz wrote: > Paul Jones wrote: > > we're hosting Larry Lessig's new project, the Creative Commons > > http://www.creativecommons.org which will be officially open on May 16 > > (Thursday). > > > > The idea is to provide licenses that allow sharing but that > > are also enforcable. > > Heard from Lessig about this and have been awaiting it with great > interest. Some feel that there is a need for a "Free Information > Foundation" right now and I wonder whether this non-profit corporation > will be it. > > > these options will include, non-commercial only, private use only, > > copyleft, attribution required, and the like. > > One question I've got is whether the project will be using or > improving upon existing licenses, or introduce new ones ... anyone > know? > > If the latter, it could in effect make the already-existing free > works incompatible with works using these new licenses. Because > copyleft licensing is only effective when that licensing is > monolithic. > _______________________________________________ > webgroup mailing list > webgroup@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/webgroup From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue May 14 19:51:27 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:13 2004 Subject: Fwd: [school-discuss] Linux Clinic this Saturday Message-ID: <02051417512700.12177@aether> Hi: Anyone want to start this in Reno, let me know. Thanks, Tom ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [school-discuss] Linux Clinic this Saturday Date: 14 May 2002 17:31:57 -0700 From: Paul Nelson To: k12osn@redhat.com, macep@lclark.edu, strut , OSN , plug , seul-edu , schoolforge Hello Folks, I'm sending out our usual announcement for our monthly Linux Clinic. I'm also posting to a wider audience in hopes of sharing a bit of how our local user group has helped us. Our school plays host to the clinic every month on the 3rd. Saturday. We invite Linux experts from the PLUG (Portland Linux/Unix User Group) to come and help with software installs and configurations for local schools, teachers, kids and the public at large. http://www.riverdale.k12.or.us/~danh We meet from 1:00 to 4:00 and there are always plenty of folks who come. Everyone helps everyone. We often have goodies to pass out and after a new Linux release it's not uncommon to have several CD-Rom burners going full speed all afternoon. We have our own workstations that boot into Linux from our terminal server for people to play with and folks bring in their own hardware to configure. Let me think about this for just a minute, do I want Linux experts to come to my school every month to help me use free, stable software to provide cool technologies for my students? They won't charge me anything and they enjoy providing support for our schools through our local listserv on a 24x7 basis... Duh... It doesn't take much to realize how well this works! It's fun for the experts too though! For those of you in the Portland area, come and join us. If you've never used Linux before or just want to see what the fuss is all about, you are welcome here. If you're a school and you want to take your first steps this would be a good time to come by. This Saturday we have a special going... We'll configure your hardware to be an Appleshare server and toss in a web server for free! ;-^) My hope is that other LUGs out there would start hosting clinics. If you are from a school, contact your local user group and offer to host a clinic! Linux Journal has a great LUG locater at: http://www.ssc.com:8080/glue/groups along with all kinds of other good LUG stuff. Red Hat hosts another site with lots of links too! http://www.redhat.com/apps/community/LUG/ If you are hosting clinics with your LUGs please let us know or post your info on the K12OS.org site. Lastly, I want to extend a big thank you to all the Linux users who have helped us so much over the years. Your work and generosity really has huge impact in our classrooms. I think we're just now starting to see that in big ways. Helping a local school may seem like a small thing to do but it sure makes a big difference. Thanks! ;-) Paul REMINDER!!! If you want to discuss the July 4th, Software Freedom Day, come at 12:00 with your lunch. -- ====================================================================== Paul Nelson............................... pnelson@riverdale.k12.or.us Riverdale School..............11733 SW Breyman Ave. Portland, OR 97219 (503)636-4511......fax(503)635-6342.... http://www.riverdale.k12.or.us ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed May 15 12:55:06 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: User Group Review: Web Dev with Apache and Perl by Theo Petersen Message-ID: <02051510550600.15897@aether> Hello: The RenoTahoe.pm.org User Group would like to participate in the book review program with Manning Publishers. We will review the book, and post to the User Group on it's own page, and, in addition, will post to the group that is hosting Open Studios, at http://www.studioforrecording.org/ . This site is dedicated to providing community-based recording studios. The book, if reviewed and positive, will have interest from musicians and artists, as one aspect of their participation is to use resources that will enable them to pursue online marketing strategies for their works. Thanks, Tom Poe http://renotahoe.pm.org/ 241 Crampton Reno, NV 89502-2438 P.S. We intend to share the book with those local individuals and groups that might want to reference it. Is that a problem? From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed May 15 22:18:29 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: [webgroup] (self-serving) Idea for June iBiblio Front Page In-Reply-To: <3CE32174.3BFB596E@cisco.com> References: <3.0.1.32.20020402084909.03b45634@direct.ca> <3CE32174.3BFB596E@cisco.com> Message-ID: <02051520182901.18013@aether> Hi: Excellent suggestion, I think. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Wednesday 15 May 2002 20:03, Andy Mead wrote: > June (well May 31st to June 30th) will see the whole world come to a > stop (with the notable exception of the United States) while the world's > largest quadrennial event takes place. > > The 2002 FIFA World Cup will be the most watched and followed sporting > event ever. At least until the 2004 European Championships or the 2006 > FIFA World Cup. > > My idea is that the Front page feature anything and everything on > iBiblio that has anything to do with Japan, Korea, or the beautiful > game, soccer. > > Yellow Card Journalism's Footy Photo Service will be at many of the > games held in South Korea. > > Andy Mead > http://www.ibiblio.org/footy/ > _______________________________________________ > webgroup mailing list > webgroup@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/webgroup From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu May 16 22:44:26 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: So there you were . . . . How marvelous that must have been Message-ID: <02051620442601.23614@aether> Hi: Well, by this time, most of the dots should be just about connected, eh? We have the Creative Commons, our legal protectorate, permitting all Internet Users the opportunity to setup and decide how they want their communications, whether audio, video, text, or images to be handled by the Internet Browsers. We have young what's-his-name working with OCN.ORG to use the Internet as it was orginally conceived, to distribute information tied to the "copyleft" insignia on each page. If we, as users, then decide we don't have an interest in pages without such an insignia, we can tell the browser to keep that commercial crap off our PC's! Isn't that just marvelous? And, while this is all taking place, the BPDG folks are futzing around with all kinds of horseh#$% figuring out how to control their "Content". Boy, are they goona be upset !!! I can't wait to sign up. How about you? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From newsletters at the-financial-news.com Fri May 17 11:48:44 2002 From: newsletters at the-financial-news.com (The Financial News) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: Production Mini-plants in mobile containers. Co-investment Program Message-ID: The Financial News, May 2002 Production Mini-plants in mobile containers. Co-investment Program "...Science Network will supply to countries and developing regions the technology and the necessary support for the production in series of Mini-plants in mobile containers (40-foot). The Mini-plant system is designed in such a way that all the production machinery is fixed on the platform of the container, with all wiring, piping, and installation parts; that is to say, they are fully equipped... and the mini-plant is ready for production." More than 700 portable production systems: Bakeries, Steel Nails, Welding Electrodes, Tire Retreading, Reinforcement Bar Bending for Construction Framework, Sheeting for Roofing, Ceilings and Fa?ades, Plated Drums, Aluminum Buckets, Injected Polypropylene Housewares, Pressed Melamine Items (Glasses, Cups, Plates, Mugs, etc.), Mufflers, Construction Electrically Welded Mesh, Plastic Bags and Packaging, Mobile units of medical assistance, Sanitary Material, Hypodermic Syringes, Hemostatic Clamps, etc. Science Network has started a process of Co-investment for the installation of small Assembly plants to manufacture in series the Mini-plants of portable production on the site, region or country where they may be required. One of the most relevant features is the fact that these plants will be connected to the World Trade System (WTS) with access to more than 50 million raw materials, products and services and automatic transactions for world trade. Because of financial reasons, involving cost and social impact, the right thing to do is to set up assembly plants in the same countries and regions, using local resources (labor, some equipment, etc.) For more information: Mini-plants in mobile containers By Steven P. Leibacher, The Financial News, Editor Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles. Programa de Co-inversion "...Science Network suministrara a paises y regiones en vias de desarrollo la tecnologia y el apoyo necesario para la fabricacion en serie de Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles (40-foot). El sistema de mini-plantas esta dise?ado de forma que todas las maquinas de produccion van instaladas fijas sobre la propia plataforma del contenedor, con el cableado, tuberias e instalaciones; es decir, completamente equipadas... y a partir de ese momento est?n listas para producir." Mas de 700 sistemas de produccion portatil: Panaderias, Producci?n de clavos de acero, Electrodos para soldadura, Recauchutado de neumaticos, Curvado de hierro para armaduras de construccion, Lamina perfilada para cubiertas, techos y cerramientos de fachada, Bidones de chapa, Cubos de aluminio, Menaje de polipropileno inyectado, Piezas de melamina prensada (vasos, platos, tazas, cafeteras, etc.) Silenciadores para vehiculos, Malla electrosoldada para la construccion, Bolsas y envases de plastico, Unidades moviles de asistencia medica, Material sanitario (jeringas hipodermicas, Pinzas hemostaticas, etc.) Science Network ha puesto en marcha un proceso de Co-inversion para la instalacion de peque?as Plantas ensambladoras para fabricar en serie las Mini-plantas de produccion portatil, en el lugar, region o pais que lo necesite. Una de las caracter?sticas relevantes es el hecho de que dichas plantas quedaran conectadas al Sistema del Comercio Mundial (WTS) con acceso a mas de 50 millones de mercancias, materia primas, productos, servicios y las operaciones automaticas de comercio internacional. Resulta obvio que por razones economicas, de costes y de impacto social, lo apropiado es instalar plantas ensambladoras en los mismos paises y regiones asi como utilizar los recursos locales (mano de obra, ciertos equipamientos, etc.) Para recibir mas infromacion: Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles Steven P. Leibacher, The Financial News, Editor ------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you received this in error or would like to be removed from our list, please return us indicating: remove or un-subscribe in 'subject' field, Thanks. Editor ? 2002 The Financial News. All rights reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/renotahoe-pm/attachments/20020517/e58c3364/attachment.htm From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 17 18:47:41 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: WIPO Comment Message-ID: <02051716474100.28348@aether> Hello: The WIPO, as stated by epic.org, used DMCA to legislate that treaty in this country. We didn't sign on to that treaty, according to the WIPO site, until March 26, 2002. Who knows who ratified our membership and signing onto the treaty on March 26, 2002? Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 17 20:25:40 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: Editorial Comment Requested Message-ID: <02051718254000.28746@aether> Hello: Here's a statement in Hollings' opening statement on Feb 28, 2002: "Senator Stevens and I [Sen Hollings] are planning legislation that would place a deadline on affected industries to come together to solve these problems in private sector talks. If they do, we will empower government enforcement so that all consumer devices comply with the private sector's solution." As I understand it, the CPTWG was formed to do the same thing with the DVD issues back, what, six years ago? Senator Hollings formally recognizes the group as a private sector group, and from his statement it is clear that he says, he will provide government enforcement of the specs that are placed in front of him. So, my thinking, and tell me if I'm wrong, here, is that this formal group is charged with the responsibility of providing a working set of technological specs for the subcommittee to enforce. By extension then, these specs must reflect the constitutional respect for "Fair Use". By extension then, these specs must NOT trample on individual privacy rights. And, finally, these talks are a formal response to the charge declared by Senator Hollings to get those specs and bring them to him, or he does it himself. With all that, then, why is this group able to work in secrecy? Why is the Press excluded? Well, they're not, and the Press can't be excluded from work on behalf of, and for public elected officials. So, can we find that little esoteric thing about legislating in the sunshine? Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 17 22:45:22 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: [school-discuss] A sister organization? In-Reply-To: <1021663988.3ce55af4c0b05@members.iteachnet.org> References: <3CE53C7E.1030808@inch.com> <3CE540C6.CF18DCE2@suscom.net> <1021663988.3ce55af4c0b05@members.iteachnet.org> Message-ID: <02051720452200.29323@aether> Hi: That term, collaboration, is an important one, I think. For instance, David might want to visit the site, and see that they are seeking collaborators. He might then contact them and arrange to do so. I think it requires a signed agreement with Creative Commons project. Once seul.org is a formal collaborator, then it might be easier to whatever. For example, seul would like to set up a collaboration with Creative Commons in order to pursue school-based application development for enlarging the Public Domain works, through encouragement of programs and applications development that includes awareness of what the Creative Commons folks think students and teachers need to share about licensing, etc. For example, I collaborate with Creative Commons to provide access to resources for musicians and artists wishing licensing options for their recordings. I also collaborate with Creative Commons to develop and share curricula information to be included in community-based projects arising out of the recording studios activities. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibibilio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Friday 17 May 2002 12:33, David Bucknell wrote: > > > on open curricular resources might want to collaborate with these > > > people. > > > > > > http://www.creativecommons.org/ > > > > > > --William > > > > More than that, we should invite them to join Schoolforge. David? > > > > > > -- > > Doug Loss All I want is a warm bed > > Data Network Coordinator and a kind word and > > Bloomsburg University unlimited power. > > dloss@bloomu.edu Ashleigh Brilliant From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon May 20 14:12:29 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] 2002: Imagine: world w ith unlimited airwaves In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02052012122901.12643@aether> Hi: That was nice. Imagine, then, speech->text mixed in with that concept, eh? If Hollywood was upset before, wait'll this hits 'em! Thanks, Tom On Monday 20 May 2002 11:26, James S. Huggins \(DMCA Discuss\) wrote: > Because of all our discussion, including particularly our discussion of > "scarcity", this article from Dan Gillmor seemed particularly appropriate. > > James S. Huggins > > > > > > > S I L I C O N V A L L E Y . C O M > http://www.siliconvalley.com/ > > DAN GILLMOR ON TECHNOLOGY > Monday May 20, 2002 > > > E-mail Dan at dgillmor@sjmercury.com > _____________________________ > > > > Imagine: world with unlimited airwaves > > It's long been an article of faith that the airwaves are a > scarce resource. On this notion rides the existence > of the Federal Communications Commission, which > regulates the airwaves, not to mention the ownership > of great swaths of the spectrum by a variety of public > and private interests. > > What if the scarcity turns out to be an artifact of history > and outmoded technology? That's not a new thought, > but it's back on the table for discussion in tech and policy > circles. If scarcity can be overcome, the implications are > both exciting and disruptive -- a cornucopia of communications > that foreshadows woes for some of our biggest > telecommunications companies. Late last month, > David P. Reed gave a provocative talk to the Federal > Communications Commission's Technological > Advisory Council. He told the group of experts, > in effect, that the FCC's fundamental mission is > flawed, maybe obsolete. > > Reed is no newcomer to the tech scene. He holds a > Ph.D. from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, > where he taught computer science and headed the Laboratory > for Computer Science's Computer Systems Structure Group. > He was chief scientist at Lotus Development and Software > Arts, two of the pioneering software companies, and worked > at the now-closed Interval Research, the Paul Allen-funded > think tank in Palo Alto. Lately he's been a consultant, > entrepreneur and researcher. > > He's been involved in Internet technical details for several decades, > and even has a ``law'' named after him. ``Reed's Law'' isn't as > famous as Moore's Law, but it's a big one. The importance of > the Internet, under Reed's Law, is at least as much about the > formation of groups that communicate and collaborate as > about person-to-person contact. > > In a panel discussion and interview last week at the O'Reilly > Emerging Technology Conference in Santa Clara, Reed put > in plain English some of the concepts he discussed at the > FCC and which he has put online at his Web site > (www.reed.com/dpr.html). Simply put, he said, we have to > start looking at spectrum as an almost limitless commodity, > not a scarce one. > > The current regulatory regime that allocates spectrum ``is a > legal metaphor that does not correspond to physical reality,'' > he said. > > Why not? First, he said, the notion of interference has more > to do with the equipment we use to send and receive > signals than with the physics of radio waves. > > ``Radio waves pass through each other,'' Reed said. > ``They do not damage each other.'' > > In the early days of radio, the gear could easily be > confused by overlapping signals. But we can now make > devices that can sort out the traffic. > > The second way that reality defies the old logic is what > happens when you add wireless devices to networks. > I won't go into the details of Reed's argument, which you > can find on his site, but he contends that you end up with > more capacity -- the ability to move bits of data around > -- than when you started. > > ``In principle, the capacity of a certain bandwidth in a certain > physical space increases with the number of transceivers in > a given space,'' he said. Yet the FCC regulates the airwaves > as if the capacity was a fixed amount. > > Yes, he said, this is counter-intuitive. And, to be sure, there > are experts who disagree with him. > > But if he and others in his camp are right, we have a lot of > work ahead to fix a hopelessly broken regulatory system. > And if that happens, the sky is literally the limit for future > communications -- but the consequences for some of the > most powerful companies in our economy may be grim. > > Reed wants the FCC to open up some spectrum for these more > open wireless networks, giving entrepreneurs a new public space > in which to innovate and create value for the rest of us. He's not > sure who'll make money in this space, but surely equipment > manufacturers and other companies, especially software > companies, will be in the middle of a wave of innovation. > > Software is a key, perhaps the key, to the future Reed envisions. > Most radio-like devices using today's spectrum -- radios, televisions, > mobile phones and the like -- are based on the old way of doing > things, constrained by hardware to receive and transmit signals > in specific ways and in specific places of the airwaves. > > To get the capacity multiplier effect, he said, we need devices > with fairly generic but powerful hardware components. ``Software > defined radios'' will be vastly more adaptable, and useful, than their > old-fashioned cousins, according to Reed and others who are > promoting the concept. The military has been using these devices, > also called ``agile radio,'' for some time; civilian availability is > getting closer as costs come down. > > Who stands to lose? Apart from regulators whose jobs might be > largely unnecessary, consider the potential plight of the phone > companies. Their business model is based on economics that > Reed's notions, should they become reality in the marketplace, > would shred. > > Getting from here to there is a huge, perhaps insurmountable task > given the business interests that would object to changes in the > rules. Some regulation would still be necessary in at least some > areas, no doubt. > > Imagining this new world has another attraction. It conjures a > boost for a civil liberty we take for granted in America but > which has been dampened under the current regulatory scheme. > > I'm talking about free speech. Regulation of the airwaves has > specifically included curbs on speech, such as the FCC's > commands to the nation's TV and radio broadcasters > about what may or may not be said on the air. > > Restrictions on speech have been justified under the idea > that the spectrum is a public and limited resource. If that > is not true, there's no reason to regulate speech in this way. > Maybe, someday, the First Amendment will mean something > when people broadcast their views, not just when they put > them on paper or on the Internet. > > The worst direction for the FCC to move right now, Reed said, > is to keep giving or auctioning spectrum to ``monopoly owners'' > that won't use it efficiently. A new kind of open space is all > about the public good, he said, and there's a fine analogy in > recent history. > > ``We need to do for spectrum,'' he said, ``what the > Internet did for the network.'' > > > > Dan Gillmor's column appears each Sunday, Wednesday and > Saturday. Visit Dan's online column, eJournal at > http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/columnists/dan_gill >m or/ejournal/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu May 23 18:40:33 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: BPDG lets the "snake out of the bag" . . . . . Message-ID: <02052316403300.03437@aether> Hi: Cory Doctorow, marketing consultant extraordinaire, has filed this piece for our reading pleasure: http://bpdg.blogs.eff.org/archives/000113.html#000113 "The report shows that this ADC regulation is part of a larger agenda. The first piece of that agenda, a mandate that would give Hollywood a veto over digital television technology, is weeks away from coming to fruition. Hollywood also proposes a radical redesign of the Internet to assist in controlling the distribution of copyrighted works." - - - -another: "This three-part agenda -- controlling digital media devices, controlling analog converters, controlling the Internet -- is a frightening peek at Hollywood's vision of the future." - - - and more: "If ADCs [contained in all digital devices to convert analog to digital] are constrained from performing analog-to-digital conversion of all watermarked copyrighted works, you might end up with a cellphone that switches itself off when you get within range of the copyrighted music on your stereo; a camcorder that refuses to store your child's first steps because he is taking them within eyeshot of a television playing a copyrighted cartoon; a camera that won't snap your holiday moments if they take place against the copyrighted backdrop of a chain store such as Starbucks, which forbids on-premises photography because its fixtures are proprietary works." - - - - - Go Read It! He talks about what this means, this "outlawing" of ADC's. You see, if ADC's are interchangeable, that means those found in scientific equipment also "have to be sacrificed", for who knows, if one of those ADC's is removed and placed in someone's entertainment device, the whole Entertainment Industry will collapse! Right? A marvelous, succinct, informative, realistic picture of what the BPDG is doing. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 24 21:29:15 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: tester In-Reply-To: <02052419283101.09077@aether> References: <02052419283101.09077@aether> Message-ID: <02052419291502.09077@aether> On Friday 24 May 2002 19:28, tom poe wrote: > Hi: Excellent!!! This is Marvelous!!! Best of luck with the system. > Remarkable!!! > > For those who haven't signed up for the EFFector, start here: > http://action.eff.org/action/login.asp and they'll walk you through the > steps. Thanks, > Tom From tompoe at renonevada.net Sun May 26 20:16:07 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: Fwd: Re: Blogging power to the people Message-ID: <02052618160701.20368@aether> Doc: Update below. Need your expert advice, here. This BlogBox thing with Sheila could be a real interesting test of the world community vs. the corporate robber barons. If we coordinate a strategy that does two things. One, gets the word out, and gets the right BlogBox design, and Two, connects a manufacturer, big or small, that makes these things. In India, they pooled resources, and over time, built their own $200 unit, called the Simputer. It's pretty close to reality at this point. The BlogBox looks like a similar product. With that then, what is your opinion about spreading the word? Ooops, just occurred to me, I need to add the hyperlink for where THE BIG LETTER came from. Gotta go! Thanks, Tom -- http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: Blogging power to the people Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 20:36:02 -0400 From: Sheila Lennon To: tompoe@renonevada.net Hi, Tom, Nice that it's Sunday night and no work tomorrow! I'm relieved and pleased we're on the same pagem but not surprised. BlogBox is a catchy name for an easy communications computer -- those who like their language dry could call it EZComCom. (: Part of it is a standalone browser with the usual plugins, part's an email client, part's a publishing tool with a built-in login to a newcomers' blog, part's a choice of isp/telecom accounts, part's a glorified pager thingy, a big part is an easy manual titled, "Let's start here" (my carpenter's suggestion) and part's a laptop box! We can certainly invite anyone you or any of the invitees recommends -- I have no connections, being out here on the way east coast in Providence. I only bumped into Doc and Dave a few weeks ago, and both are extending a welcome to the "journalist bloggers." What I can bring to this. 1) An ability to communicate the issues to people who know nothing of technology (lots of years of writing headlines helps, and most of my friends and colleagues are in the population we're trying to reach. 2) Because I work for the mainstream media, when I call the White House they call me back. That might come in handy. 3) A memory of a "beginner's mind" -- I remember when Save made sense, but Save as... sure didn't! This makes me eager to be part of the software interface design. I have lots of virgins to try it out on, too. 4) I was on the board of the Ocean State Free-net for a while. Those Free-Nets that have survived are natural online centers of distribution for all this. They're also usually based in library systems or universities, and have political clout for neighborhood organizing. I'm going to a barbecue tomorrow that will reunite the old bbs community, and I'll float it there. (Yes, it's all done at barbecues.) Why don't you host the list? sheila -- Sheila Lennon - lennon@projo.com Features & Interactive Producer http://www.projo.com - The website of the Providence Journal Weblog: Subterranean Homepage News http://www.projo.com/technology/shenews/ ------------------------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon May 27 15:45:57 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: [DMCA_Discuss] TiVo attack (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20020527114415.A475@networkcommand.com> References: <20020527114415.A475@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <02052713455700.25970@aether> Hi: I suppose I should go find out what a TiVO is, but later. This sure sounds like the stuff dreams are built on. I am referring to our public jerk, Kellner, who wanted everyone to know that viewers have a contract to watch ads, and if they don't, they're breaking the law. So, the day will come, as it seems "they've" already decided that we WILL WATCH, or the TiVO crashes! This is not a pretty picture. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Monday 27 May 2002 11:44, Jon O. wrote: - - -snip - - - > > BBC hijacks TiVo recorders > I want my Spam TV > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/25436.html > > BBC hijacks TiVo recorders > By Andrew Smith > Posted: 24/05/2002 at 23:22 GMT > > Users of the TiVo digital video recorder have reacted angrily to a new > sponsorship feature that automatically records certain programmes, > adverts and other promotional material. > > One of TiVo's more innovative features is its ability to recommend > programmes based on viewing habits, such as watching every episode of > a soap opera or every film starring a certain actor. > > But viewers in the UK were surprised this week to find that the second > episode of the little-known BBC sitcom "Dossa and Joe" had been > recorded without their knowledge and added to the system's main menu > screen. > > They were even more surprised to find that they won't be allowed to > delete the programme for one week, and that more sponsored recordings > are on the way. > > TiVo defended the new "Advanced Content" feature, insisting that it > doesn't adversely affect a viewer's usage of the system. Sponsored > programmes are recorded on a reserved section of the hard disk, and > only if the viewer isn't watching or recording something else. > Vice President of TiVo Europe, Andrew Cresci, told The Register: "This > feature provides an innovative new way for networks and programmers to > deliver interesting, new or exclusive content to TiVo subscribers." > "This does not change subscribers ongoing use of the product and we > hope over time the value of the content provided will outweigh any > perceived inconvenience this creates." > Some viewers have complained that the feature amounts to a hijacking > of TiVo boxes with little regard for the owner's wishes. Others have > been quick to dub it "spam television" and have suggested that it > should have been introduced on an opt-in basis. > But Cresci points out that viewers who do not want to watch the > sponsored programmes can simply ignore them. > "The feature was not introduced as 'opt-in' because as with similar > features like Channel Highlights and Inside TiVo, these features are > optional for users to use," he explained. > "In the future viewers could receive exclusive content or previews of > new shows. The possibilities for delivery of content are interesting > and we hope that viewers will find it valuable." > > Teething troubles > > Although there have been complaints about license fee money being paid > to TiVo, which still has a very small audience in the UK, it is clear > why the BBC would want to promote "Dossa and Joe" in this way. > > The series, written by The Royle Family and Mrs Merton creator > Caroline Aherne, should have been a hit. But despite critical acclaim, > ratings have been poor. The first episode attracted just 1.5m viewers, > a figure that dropped to 1m for the second episode -- just 5% audience > share for its time slot. > As much as the BBC has a responsibility not to squander license fee > money, it also has a responsibility to find an audience for the > programmes it invests in. Forcing "Dossa and Joe" upon the nation's > TiVo owners, some of who are sure to watch it and then tune in next > week, can only help. > After all, the toughest part of getting viewers to continue watching a > television series is getting them to start watching it in the first > place. > But ironically, due to the BBC's notoriously bad time-keeping and > TiVo's strict adherence to schedules, the programme started late and > therefore any TiVo viewers watching the recording would have missed > the last few minutes. > Advertainment > Meanwhile, TiVo sponsorship in the US has been introduced in a more > commercial way this week, as the system automatically recorded a video > promoting Sheryl Crow's new album, along with two adverts for TiVo's > distribution partner Best Buy. > These recordings were part of a strategy announced last week, > described by TiVo as "advertainment" that "establishes far deeper > communications with consumers". > The move towards this more direct form of advertising was inevitable. > Although viewers own their set-top box, TiVo has free rein to update > the system software and add new features. > The company has made no secret of its intention to work with > broadcasters and advertisers, and to market products directly to its > 400,000-strong captive audience. > And although there has been a backlash from some US viewers, there is > little difference between what TiVo is doing now and the 'interactive' > advertising on British satellite and cable channels. Such advertising > is promoted as a somewhat gimmicky bonus and receives little, if any > objection from viewers. > Another marketing strategy that TiVo has already trialled but not yet > introduced is expected to combinine census data with personal > information supplied by the viewer to deliver targeted advertising > based on location, age, gender, wealth and lifestyle. ? > From alex at synchcorp.com Mon May 27 17:58:20 2002 From: alex at synchcorp.com (Alex Heizer) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] TiVo attack (fwd) References: <20020527114415.A475@networkcommand.com> <02052713455700.25970@aether> Message-ID: <3CF2BA0C.1BE3ACA4@synchcorp.com> Interesting that they claim the auto-recording of unwanted material only occurs as long as nothing else is being watched or recorded. Sounds like the solution is to set up non-stop recording of content that you *are* allowed to delete, deleting it just before recording something else. :) Alex tom poe wrote: > Hi: I suppose I should go find out what a TiVO is, but later. > > This sure sounds like the stuff dreams are built on. I am referring to our > public jerk, Kellner, who wanted everyone to know that viewers have a > contract to watch ads, and if they don't, they're breaking the law. > > So, the day will come, as it seems "they've" already decided that we WILL > WATCH, or the TiVO crashes! This is not a pretty picture. > Thanks, > Tom > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > On Monday 27 May 2002 11:44, Jon O. wrote: > - - -snip - - - > > > > BBC hijacks TiVo recorders > > I want my Spam TV > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/25436.html > > > > BBC hijacks TiVo recorders > > By Andrew Smith > > Posted: 24/05/2002 at 23:22 GMT > > > > Users of the TiVo digital video recorder have reacted angrily to a new > > sponsorship feature that automatically records certain programmes, > > adverts and other promotional material. > > > > One of TiVo's more innovative features is its ability to recommend > > programmes based on viewing habits, such as watching every episode of > > a soap opera or every film starring a certain actor. > > > > But viewers in the UK were surprised this week to find that the second > > episode of the little-known BBC sitcom "Dossa and Joe" had been > > recorded without their knowledge and added to the system's main menu > > screen. > > > > They were even more surprised to find that they won't be allowed to > > delete the programme for one week, and that more sponsored recordings > > are on the way. > > > > TiVo defended the new "Advanced Content" feature, insisting that it > > doesn't adversely affect a viewer's usage of the system. Sponsored > > programmes are recorded on a reserved section of the hard disk, and > > only if the viewer isn't watching or recording something else. > > Vice President of TiVo Europe, Andrew Cresci, told The Register: "This > > feature provides an innovative new way for networks and programmers to > > deliver interesting, new or exclusive content to TiVo subscribers." > > "This does not change subscribers ongoing use of the product and we > > hope over time the value of the content provided will outweigh any > > perceived inconvenience this creates." > > Some viewers have complained that the feature amounts to a hijacking > > of TiVo boxes with little regard for the owner's wishes. Others have > > been quick to dub it "spam television" and have suggested that it > > should have been introduced on an opt-in basis. > > But Cresci points out that viewers who do not want to watch the > > sponsored programmes can simply ignore them. > > "The feature was not introduced as 'opt-in' because as with similar > > features like Channel Highlights and Inside TiVo, these features are > > optional for users to use," he explained. > > "In the future viewers could receive exclusive content or previews of > > new shows. The possibilities for delivery of content are interesting > > and we hope that viewers will find it valuable." > > > > Teething troubles > > > > Although there have been complaints about license fee money being paid > > to TiVo, which still has a very small audience in the UK, it is clear > > why the BBC would want to promote "Dossa and Joe" in this way. > > > > The series, written by The Royle Family and Mrs Merton creator > > Caroline Aherne, should have been a hit. But despite critical acclaim, > > ratings have been poor. The first episode attracted just 1.5m viewers, > > a figure that dropped to 1m for the second episode -- just 5% audience > > share for its time slot. > > As much as the BBC has a responsibility not to squander license fee > > money, it also has a responsibility to find an audience for the > > programmes it invests in. Forcing "Dossa and Joe" upon the nation's > > TiVo owners, some of who are sure to watch it and then tune in next > > week, can only help. > > After all, the toughest part of getting viewers to continue watching a > > television series is getting them to start watching it in the first > > place. > > But ironically, due to the BBC's notoriously bad time-keeping and > > TiVo's strict adherence to schedules, the programme started late and > > therefore any TiVo viewers watching the recording would have missed > > the last few minutes. > > Advertainment > > Meanwhile, TiVo sponsorship in the US has been introduced in a more > > commercial way this week, as the system automatically recorded a video > > promoting Sheryl Crow's new album, along with two adverts for TiVo's > > distribution partner Best Buy. > > These recordings were part of a strategy announced last week, > > described by TiVo as "advertainment" that "establishes far deeper > > communications with consumers". > > The move towards this more direct form of advertising was inevitable. > > Although viewers own their set-top box, TiVo has free rein to update > > the system software and add new features. > > The company has made no secret of its intention to work with > > broadcasters and advertisers, and to market products directly to its > > 400,000-strong captive audience. > > And although there has been a backlash from some US viewers, there is > > little difference between what TiVo is doing now and the 'interactive' > > advertising on British satellite and cable channels. Such advertising > > is promoted as a somewhat gimmicky bonus and receives little, if any > > objection from viewers. > > Another marketing strategy that TiVo has already trialled but not yet > > introduced is expected to combinine census data with personal > > information supplied by the viewer to deliver targeted advertising > > based on location, age, gender, wealth and lifestyle. ? > > > _______________________________________________ > Community_studios mailing list > Community_studios@lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/community_studios From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue May 28 11:32:43 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] i286 In-Reply-To: <200205281209.g4SC9A705848@atmpe.omnitel.net> References: <200205281209.g4SC9A705848@atmpe.omnitel.net> Message-ID: <02052809324300.30964@aether> On Tuesday 28 May 2002 06:07, you wrote: > > my neighbour has given me i286 computer. I wonder what i can use this > computer for ? Router ? Mail server ? I have heard about freesco setup as > router (basic linux core) but i was told i486 is minimum requirements... > Any ideas ? > > -- > DeBug Hi: In 1983, " Inexpensive microprocessors such as the Motorola 68000 and the Intel I286 become available. Old and new computer vendors take advantage of these processors and networking particular that provided in 4.2BSD, to produce networked workstations." So, make a workstation! Actually, maybe a mail server would be nice. Then, a router. Should be interesting. See if Debian or Slackware will sit on it? Let us know what you do. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue May 28 13:52:40 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: [school-discuss] [Fwd: How could we be part of this] In-Reply-To: <3CF3C6E1.72FC5311@suscom.net> References: <3CF3C6E1.72FC5311@suscom.net> Message-ID: <02052811524001.31530@aether> Hi: There's a model to consider at: http://www.worldccr.org/kiosks.htm If you want to discuss this model, let me know. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Tuesday 28 May 2002 11:05, Doug Loss wrote: > I just received this from Mr. Kaberia: > > Kirimi Kaberia wrote: > > Dear Doug, > > > > I am the president of ATCnet in Africa and would like to get help > > developing a school network in a rural district in East Africa. I > > am looking at about 100 schools all of which are in a highly > > mountainous region and quite rural. They have telephone > > and electricity, some have computers others are in our list to > > provide computers. We would like to set up a network that is not > > necessarily linked to the ISPN except for the phone connection. > > Our biggest handle is the servers to use and the software. Could > > your group help us. Let me know what we need to do to actually get > > the teaching materials for the various classes in math, computer, > > biology, chemistry for mostly high school level students. Also in > > high need is the curriculum for computer literacy for both kids > > and adults. I would like to discuss the possibilities here. I > > think there is a lot that we can do to make it happen together but > > I do not have the final solution. How can I reach you. I can be > > reached at 703 658 6333 or by replying to this email directly. > > Keep up the good work. > > > > Kirimi Kaberia > > > > President > > > > ATCnet > > > > 703 658 6333 > > What do you all think we can do to help him in this venture? > > -- > Doug Loss All I want is a warm bed > Data Network Coordinator and a kind word and > Bloomsburg University unlimited power. > dloss@bloomu.edu Ashleigh Brilliant From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue May 28 17:52:35 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: [school-discuss] Britannica In-Reply-To: <20020528211617.BVYC1191.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@localhost> References: <20020528211617.BVYC1191.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@localhost> Message-ID: <02052815523500.32325@aether> On Tuesday 28 May 2002 14:16, you wrote: > Those out there that do not believe a port of Britannica should be done > must also believe that WINE should be dumped... both allow the use of > proprietary software on Linux. I have been at this for over 30 years, and I > have found that one should use the best tool for the job, not a tool based > on "ideology". (Although I must admit I did not start with this attitude.) > Do not curse the darkness (proprietary software), light a candle (write a > BETTER tool\app that is open source). > > KLP Karl: Calm down. This is not about rejecting Brittanica. This is about Brittanica "using" free programmers to build a proprietary version of software. If Brittanica is written in Java, it is portable already to Unix/linux. That's the nature of the programming language. If they want to "port" it to linux, all they have to do is run the "package" code. Since they don't, there's really nothing anyone can do to help them. Now, as to ideology, just what is it about Brittanica that is causing you so much pain? Are children suffering because there is no way to access particular information? I suspect the BETTER tool/app that is open source is already out there. It's called the Internet. And, a class that wants to access the Internet and gather reliable, accurate, up-to-the-minute encyclopedic information can do no better than to collectively report their findings and share their discoveries with their classmates. Heck of a lot cheaper, too. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From jkinz at ultranet.com Tue May 28 19:25:00 2002 From: jkinz at ultranet.com (jkinz@ultranet.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: [school-discuss] Britannica In-Reply-To: <02052815523500.32325@aether>; from tompoe@renonevada.net on Tue, May 28, 2002 at 03:52:35PM -0700 References: <20020528211617.BVYC1191.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@localhost> <02052815523500.32325@aether> Message-ID: <20020528202500.A2397@redline> On Tue, May 28, 2002 at 03:52:35PM -0700, tom poe wrote: > > Karl: Calm down. This is not about rejecting Brittanica. This is about Karl didn't seem upset to me even if I don't agree with everything he said. Telling people who aren't upset to calm down might cause a problem where none exists. Are you sure he was flaming ? As I recall the core issue here is that some schools won't consider using open source based tools unless E. Britannica runs on them. For those schools we have to enable E. Britannica on Linux or write our own Open Source equivalent of the E. Britannica. This is clearly a non-trivial effort that would take years. Of course the Open Source community has already demonstrated its ability to dedicate itself to large projects. However this does not seem a project likely to occur. :-) Since EB, as noted below, is written in Java, most of it probably already runs on Linux. This means that the remaining barrier to having EB available on LINUX is the question of how EB can insure that they will garner enough revenue from Linux sales of the product to pay for Linux-capable tech support staffers to answers phones and help Linux based customers when they encounter probs. This is sort of a chicken versus egg problem. No Linux schools -EB wont sell EB on Linux. "No EB on Linux ? We won't put Linux in our school." For any vendor, marketing even an existing product on a new platform is a much more complex question than just porting it to that new platform. > Brittanica "using" free programmers to build a proprietary version of > software. If Brittanica is written in Java, it is portable already to > Unix/linux. That's the nature of the programming language. If they want to > "port" it to linux, all they have to do is run the "package" code. Since > they don't, there's really nothing anyone can do to help them. Now, as to > ideology, just what is it about Brittanica that is causing you so much pain? > Are children suffering because there is no way to access particular > information? I suspect the BETTER tool/app that is open source is already > out there. It's called the Internet. And, a class that wants to access the > Internet and gather reliable, accurate, up-to-the-minute encyclopedic > information can do no better than to collectively report their findings and > share their discoveries with their classmates. Heck of a lot cheaper, too. I agree here Tom. Sadly the schools who are making using Linux conditional on the availability of EB don't. Constructively - How do we convince them ? Jeff Kinz > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > From tompoe at renonevada.net Tue May 28 20:27:49 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: [Community_studios] Re: Re: [school-discuss] Britannica In-Reply-To: <20020528202500.A2397@redline> References: <20020528211617.BVYC1191.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@localhost> <02052815523500.32325@aether> <20020528202500.A2397@redline> Message-ID: <02052818274900.00618@aether> On Tuesday 28 May 2002 17:25, jkinz@ultranet.com wrote: > I agree here Tom. Sadly the schools who are making using Linux > conditional on the availability of EB don't. Constructively - How do > we convince them ? > Jeff Kinz Hi: Good question. I'm still trying to figure how to get in front of principals and administrators. However, since you brought it up. There's a group of us that are convinced that if we can get communities to build low-cost recording studios, that provide FREE recording services, that we will go a long way to using that vehicle to encourage linux-based networks within the schools. Indirect, but should be timely, as we continue to move to more and more interactive, multi-media apps. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Wed May 29 18:18:46 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: next great group In-Reply-To: <20020529203228.15993.qmail@web14406.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020529203228.15993.qmail@web14406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02052916184600.05913@aether> Hello, Brian: Nice to see your email. On behalf of Open Studios, I would like to introduce you to alternatives to the past "professional track" offered by Hollywood. If you have the time, please take a look at the following sites: http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.creativecommons.org/ The idea is for you to consider setting out your own audience building, marketing plan, tours, concerts, etc. Build your career without selling out your copyrights protections. Think of it this way: If you're familiar with the group, The Grateful Dead, you'll know that what they did was to follow a path similar to what Open Studios and Creative Commons offer. They did it the hard way. John Perry Barlow, lyricist for the group, is one of the Co-Founders of Eff.org, a legal group of attorneys from Stanford, Berkeley, and Harvard, that created the Creative Commons setup. This means, they provide all the legal services for you FREE. Open Studios provides all the rest of your support needs by helping you get information and point you to resources to get the stuff you need in place to make a career as successful as The Grateful Dead. Consider this invitation when you can, and if we can answer questions, don't hesitate to email. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Wednesday 29 May 2002 13:32, you wrote: > > Hello Agents, Music Studio executives and Media People, I am Brian > Duffy the vocal, rhythm & lead guitar, Keyboard and Base guitar player of > Group Hug. I am looking for Agent representation, a recording contract, > Media coverage and concert schedule. I am in the United States Army and > will be fully available January 2003.We have 12 Top demonstration songs but > will send you a sample of 4 top new tunes, upon request. I work with Black > Male and female vocalist.http://www.garageband.com/artist/grouphu email > duff_33@msn.com > > Hello Agents, Music Studio executives and Media People, I am Brian > Duffy the vocal, rhythm & lead guitar, Keyboard and Base guitar player of > Group Hug. I am looking for Agent representation, a recording contract, > Media coverage and concert schedule. I am in the United States Army and > will be fully available January 2003.We have 12 Top demonstration songs but > will send you a sample of 4 top new tunes, upon request. I work with Black > Male and female vocalist.http://www.garageband.com/artist/grouphu > > > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- From tompoe at renonevada.net Thu May 30 00:13:14 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: A call for friendly testers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02052922131400.07355@aether> On Wednesday 29 May 2002 21:57, Atul Chitnis wrote: > (sniffle) Still no hand-held friendly version a la > http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/pda/ Hi: Do you have one of those simputers? I wonder how it looks in one of those? Soon as they hit the world community, we'll all have to reevaluate our sites, won't we? Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri May 31 13:00:54 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:06:14 2004 Subject: BPDG: Re: BPDG Report In-Reply-To: <33.27d83f81.2a28f665@aol.com> References: <33.27d83f81.2a28f665@aol.com> Message-ID: <02053111005400.15898@aether> On Friday 31 May 2002 08:53, WJR74@aol.com wrote: > > Having watched this process over the past months, and as a veteran of > numerous groups, committees, panels, etc. within CEA, SAE, CSA, IEC, UL, > NEMA, EPRI, and numerous others, both consensus and otherwise, I have to > agree with what I see as the closest thing to a true consensus that has > come out of this process. This has not been a consensus process. - - - snip - - - Hello: I believe Mr. Rose has put forth a most revealing and important observation, along with extremely relevant suggestions on how this process should proceed. Rather than use it to clearly demonstrate the unprofessional and immature approach the conveners chose to pursue, these observations might better reflect how the process can be adjusted and progress from this point forward. I applaud Mr. Rose's candor and professionalism, and look forward to the BPDG's response to his observations. In particular, I would suggest that his message be forwarded directly to the individuals that received the May Report, and request it be placed on the site along with the May Report. Respectfully, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/