From turne349 at purdue.edu  Thu Oct 15 05:52:42 2020
From: turne349 at purdue.edu (Turner, Howard Robert)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 12:52:42 +0000
Subject: [Purdue-pm] List activity
Message-ID: <MN2PR22MB1856AB606A8227C5921DB409E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Greetings everyone,

Recently found out Purdue had a Perl mailing list. I haven't seen any activity thus far so thought I'd send out a message to see if the list is even active anymore?

Rob
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From mark at ecn.purdue.edu  Thu Oct 15 06:55:49 2020
From: mark at ecn.purdue.edu (Mark Senn)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 09:55:49 -0400
Subject: [Purdue-pm] List activity
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR22MB1856AB606A8227C5921DB409E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR22MB1856AB606A8227C5921DB409E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <34184.1602770149@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>

Rob Turner <turne349 at purdue.edu> wrote on 12:52+00:
|  Greetings everyone,
|  
|  Recently found out Purdue had a Perl mailing list. I haven't seen any
|  activity thus far so thought I'd send out a message to see if the list
|  is even active anymore?
|  
|  Rob

Hi Rob,

Yep, we're active---just not a lot of traffic.  I use Perl 5 and Raku
(previously known as Perl 6) every day at my job at the Engineering
Computer Network.  Use Raku more than any other language for general
programming---use Mathematica for technical programming when the math,
graphics, or interfacing with curated data is easier in Mathematica than
Raku.

-mark

From turne349 at purdue.edu  Thu Oct 15 14:15:14 2020
From: turne349 at purdue.edu (Turner, Howard Robert)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 21:15:14 +0000
Subject: [Purdue-pm] List activity
In-Reply-To: <34184.1602770149@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>
References: <MN2PR22MB1856AB606A8227C5921DB409E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
 <34184.1602770149@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <MN2PR22MB1856CAEA8F92EC2A5EDEA152E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Mark,

Ah great to hear! Can't find many local folks who use Perl these days and online info isn't always the greatest either.

I've only ever used Perl 5 and mainly one-liners on *nix systems. Recently decided to start putting more effort into programming in general and wanted to use Perl as a nice mix between Bash and C. Seemed to be what a lot of folks were comparing Perl to (again online inform so forgive me if that's a bad analogy).

Any suggestions on practice problems or challenges worth working on? I like the "solve problems relevant to you" mentality but sometimes have trouble coming up with my own challenges.

Rob
________________________________
From: Mark Senn <mark at ecn.purdue.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:55:49 AM
To: Turner, Howard Robert <turne349 at purdue.edu>
Cc: purdue-pm at pm.org <purdue-pm at pm.org>
Subject: Re: [Purdue-pm] List activity

Rob Turner <turne349 at purdue.edu> wrote on 12:52+00:
|  Greetings everyone,
|
|  Recently found out Purdue had a Perl mailing list. I haven't seen any
|  activity thus far so thought I'd send out a message to see if the list
|  is even active anymore?
|
|  Rob

Hi Rob,

Yep, we're active---just not a lot of traffic.  I use Perl 5 and Raku
(previously known as Perl 6) every day at my job at the Engineering
Computer Network.  Use Raku more than any other language for general
programming---use Mathematica for technical programming when the math,
graphics, or interfacing with curated data is easier in Mathematica than
Raku.

-mark
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From gizmomathboy at gmail.com  Thu Oct 15 15:23:13 2020
From: gizmomathboy at gmail.com (gizmomathboy)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 18:23:13 -0400
Subject: [Purdue-pm] List activity
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR22MB1856CAEA8F92EC2A5EDEA152E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR22MB1856AB606A8227C5921DB409E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
 <34184.1602770149@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>
 <MN2PR22MB1856CAEA8F92EC2A5EDEA152E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <9a3fb7b4-1df8-d6db-3d6a-a016cda7216a@gmail.com>

Rob,

there is the weekly perl challenge:

https://perlweeklychallenge.org/

However, they will take answers in any language.

There is also Rosetta Code for just an assort of problems to solve and
compare to what others have done.

http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code

gizmo

From mark at purdue.edu  Thu Oct 15 15:25:37 2020
From: mark at purdue.edu (Mark Senn)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 18:25:37 -0400
Subject: [Purdue-pm] List activity
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR22MB1856CAEA8F92EC2A5EDEA152E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR22MB1856AB606A8227C5921DB409E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
 <34184.1602770149@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>
 <MN2PR22MB1856CAEA8F92EC2A5EDEA152E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1695.1602800737@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>

|  Mark,
|  
|  Ah great to hear! Can't find many local folks who use Perl these days
|  and online info isn't always the greatest either.
|  
|  I've only ever used Perl 5 and mainly one-liners on *nix
|  systems. Recently decided to start putting more effort into programming
|  in general and wanted to use Perl as a nice mix between Bash and
|  C. Seemed to be what a lot of folks were comparing Perl to (again online
|  inform so forgive me if that's a bad analogy).
|  
|  Any suggestions on practice problems or challenges worth working on? I
|  like the "solve problems relevant to you" mentality but sometimes have
|  trouble coming up with my own challenges.
|  
|  Rob

I agree that Perl is a nice mix of Bash and C.  I only write
bash functions for simple shell things.  For programming in general,
and not just shell things, I recommend using Perl (or better yet,
Raku, formerly known as Perl 6).

For problems I recommend
    https://perlweeklychallenge.org/

Think about things you can automate in your workflow and implement them
if you have time.

Write a program to sum the numbers 1 to n in an efficient way.
Clue, for n = 100: 1+100 = 101, 2+99 = 101, ... .

Write a program to evaluate a perl expression and print the answer.
Clue: eval statement.  Build a macro processor that can be extended
arbitrarily with Perl.

-mark

From turne349 at purdue.edu  Fri Oct 16 04:34:31 2020
From: turne349 at purdue.edu (Turner, Howard Robert)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 11:34:31 +0000
Subject: [Purdue-pm] List activity
In-Reply-To: <1695.1602800737@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>
References: <MN2PR22MB1856AB606A8227C5921DB409E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
 <34184.1602770149@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>
 <MN2PR22MB1856CAEA8F92EC2A5EDEA152E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
 <1695.1602800737@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <MN2PR22MB18562FAA8A39764D2A8A8EF1E5020@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Mark/gizmo,

Perl weekly challenge looks great! Thanks for sharing. Plenty to keep busy with now.

Rob
________________________________
From: Mark Senn <mark at purdue.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 6:25:37 PM
To: Turner, Howard Robert <turne349 at purdue.edu>
Cc: purdue-pm at pm.org <purdue-pm at pm.org>
Subject: Re: [Purdue-pm] List activity

|  Mark,
|
|  Ah great to hear! Can't find many local folks who use Perl these days
|  and online info isn't always the greatest either.
|
|  I've only ever used Perl 5 and mainly one-liners on *nix
|  systems. Recently decided to start putting more effort into programming
|  in general and wanted to use Perl as a nice mix between Bash and
|  C. Seemed to be what a lot of folks were comparing Perl to (again online
|  inform so forgive me if that's a bad analogy).
|
|  Any suggestions on practice problems or challenges worth working on? I
|  like the "solve problems relevant to you" mentality but sometimes have
|  trouble coming up with my own challenges.
|
|  Rob

I agree that Perl is a nice mix of Bash and C.  I only write
bash functions for simple shell things.  For programming in general,
and not just shell things, I recommend using Perl (or better yet,
Raku, formerly known as Perl 6).

For problems I recommend
    https://perlweeklychallenge.org/

Think about things you can automate in your workflow and implement them
if you have time.

Write a program to sum the numbers 1 to n in an efficient way.
Clue, for n = 100: 1+100 = 101, 2+99 = 101, ... .

Write a program to evaluate a perl expression and print the answer.
Clue: eval statement.  Build a macro processor that can be extended
arbitrarily with Perl.

-mark
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From turne349 at purdue.edu  Wed Oct 21 18:10:40 2020
From: turne349 at purdue.edu (Turner, Howard Robert)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 01:10:40 +0000
Subject: [Purdue-pm] Threads and forks
Message-ID: <MN2PR22MB1856CC3116E6A94B331B0D6BE51D0@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Greetings again everyone.

Looking for some advice. I'm writing a small program that talks to a webserver and ends waiting for a connection back from the webserver. Problem is I can only figure out to have the call back handled or my Perl program continue processing but not both.

Started reading the Perl threads tutorial but it suggests not using threads and then started reading about fork instead. So a little overwhelmed in figuring out which one is "the right way".

Anyone have suggestions and/or tutorials they'd suggest reviewing beyond the ones on perldoc?

Respectfully,
Rob
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From gizmo at purdue.edu  Thu Oct 22 05:18:15 2020
From: gizmo at purdue.edu (Joe)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 08:18:15 -0400
Subject: [Purdue-pm] Threads and forks
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR22MB1856CC3116E6A94B331B0D6BE51D0@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR22MB1856CC3116E6A94B331B0D6BE51D0@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2740dd60-256d-f042-9a96-e4b073854107@purdue.edu>

On 10/21/20 9:10 PM, Turner, Howard Robert wrote:
> Greetings again everyone.
> 
> Looking for some advice. I'm writing a small program that talks to a
> webserver and ends waiting for a connection back from the webserver.
> Problem is I can only figure out to have the call back handled or my
> Perl program continue processing but not both.?
> 
> Started reading the Perl threads tutorial but it suggests not using
> threads and then started reading about fork instead. So a little
> overwhelmed in figuring out which one is "the right way".?
> 
> Anyone have suggestions and/or tutorials they'd suggest reviewing beyond
> the ones on perldoc?

Rob,

In the past for async stuff I've used:

https://metacpan.org/pod/Parallel::ForkManager

https://metacpan.org/pod/IO::Async

Lots of stuff in the IO::Async distro, like Promises and such.



As for web stuff...

Mojo is really good for that.

https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojo::UserAgent

https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojo::DOM

https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojo::Promise


As with all things Perl, There's More Than One Way To Do It.

Although..we try to push the Modern Way and Best Practices ;-)

joe

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From jacoby.david at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 06:55:28 2020
From: jacoby.david at gmail.com (Dave Jacoby)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 09:55:28 -0400
Subject: [Purdue-pm] Threads and forks
In-Reply-To: <2740dd60-256d-f042-9a96-e4b073854107@purdue.edu>
References: <MN2PR22MB1856CC3116E6A94B331B0D6BE51D0@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
 <2740dd60-256d-f042-9a96-e4b073854107@purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <CAGbe8xr+AjA+c7faDajKFaohgFeTdao2qSq6OFXJNEzWqrScqw@mail.gmail.com>

I recently saw someone talk about MCE, or Multi Core Engine.

https://metacpan.org/pod/MCE

I need to spend more time with it some day

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 8:40 AM Joe <gizmo at purdue.edu> wrote:

> On 10/21/20 9:10 PM, Turner, Howard Robert wrote:
> > Greetings again everyone.
> >
> > Looking for some advice. I'm writing a small program that talks to a
> > webserver and ends waiting for a connection back from the webserver.
> > Problem is I can only figure out to have the call back handled or my
> > Perl program continue processing but not both.
> >
> > Started reading the Perl threads tutorial but it suggests not using
> > threads and then started reading about fork instead. So a little
> > overwhelmed in figuring out which one is "the right way".
> >
> > Anyone have suggestions and/or tutorials they'd suggest reviewing beyond
> > the ones on perldoc?
>
> Rob,
>
> In the past for async stuff I've used:
>
> https://metacpan.org/pod/Parallel::ForkManager
>
> https://metacpan.org/pod/IO::Async
>
> Lots of stuff in the IO::Async distro, like Promises and such.
>
>
>
> As for web stuff...
>
> Mojo is really good for that.
>
> https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojo::UserAgent
>
> https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojo::DOM
>
> https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojo::Promise
>
>
> As with all things Perl, There's More Than One Way To Do It.
>
> Although..we try to push the Modern Way and Best Practices ;-)
>
> joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> Purdue-pm mailing list
> Purdue-pm at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/purdue-pm
>
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From jacoby.david at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 06:58:47 2020
From: jacoby.david at gmail.com (Dave Jacoby)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 09:58:47 -0400
Subject: [Purdue-pm] Threads and forks
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR22MB1856CC3116E6A94B331B0D6BE51D0@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR22MB1856CC3116E6A94B331B0D6BE51D0@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGbe8xrSXXt6Tb4_kOL-HOVGTcbHcve1NtTiz5_7J2hQE-8g8w@mail.gmail.com>

My first question is, what is the webserver doing?

Because, notwithstanding lag, I'd expect it to receive and handle your web
stuff.

Are you using LWP? Mojo::UserAgent? WWW:: Mechanize? Shell out to curl?


On Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 9:10 PM Turner, Howard Robert <turne349 at purdue.edu>
wrote:

> Greetings again everyone.
>
> Looking for some advice. I'm writing a small program that talks to a
> webserver and ends waiting for a connection back from the webserver.
> Problem is I can only figure out to have the call back handled or my Perl
> program continue processing but not both.
>
> Started reading the Perl threads tutorial but it suggests not using
> threads and then started reading about fork instead. So a little
> overwhelmed in figuring out which one is "the right way".
>
> Anyone have suggestions and/or tutorials they'd suggest reviewing beyond
> the ones on perldoc?
>
> Respectfully,
> Rob
> _______________________________________________
> Purdue-pm mailing list
> Purdue-pm at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/purdue-pm
>
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From mark at purdue.edu  Thu Oct 22 08:07:38 2020
From: mark at purdue.edu (Mark Senn)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 11:07:38 -0400
Subject: [Purdue-pm] Threads and forks
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR22MB1856CC3116E6A94B331B0D6BE51D0@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR22MB1856CC3116E6A94B331B0D6BE51D0@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <22970.1603379258@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>

Rob Turner <turne349 at purdue.edu> wrote on 2020-10-22 at 01:10+00:
|  Greetings again everyone.
|  
|  Looking for some advice. I'm writing a small program that talks to a
|  webserver and ends waiting for a connection back from the
|  webserver. Problem is I can only figure out to have the call back
|  handled or my Perl program continue processing but not both.
|  
|  Started reading the Perl threads tutorial but it suggests not using
|  threads and then started reading about fork instead. So a little
|  overwhelmed in figuring out which one is "the right way".
|  
|  Anyone have suggestions and/or tutorials they'd suggest reviewing beyond
|  the ones on perldoc?
|  
|  Respectfully,
|  Rob

Rob,

I like Raku (formerly known as Perl 6) better than Perl 5.  Raku is harder to
learn than Perl 5 because it is much more powerful.  Fewer people know
Raku than Perl 5.  Raku is not installed on as many computers.  My return
on investment learning Raku has been excellent.

If you'd like to make the jump to Raku this quote
    Raku is designed to support parallelism, asynchronicity and concurrency.
is from
    https://docs.raku.org/language/concurrency

I'm guessing you want to go async because you're sending requests to
multiple webservers and/or sending a message to a single web server
that will require lots of computation.  Is that correct?

See
    https://zostay.com/posts/2019/12/01/introducing-async-concurrency-in-raku/
for around 20 other async/concurrency articles.

See
    https://cro.services
for information on Cro.  From the web page:
    Cro is a set of libraries for building reactive distributed systems,
    lovingly crafted to take advantage of all Raku (formerly Perl 6) has to
    offer. The high level APIs make the easy things easy, and the
    asynchronous pipeline concept at Cro's heart makes the hard things
    possible.

https://raku.guide/ is a good intro to Raku.  Raku is Object-Oriented,
OO stuff is built in on Raku, bolted on in Perl 5.  From the web page
    my @final-array = reverse(sort(unique(@array)));
is easier to read in my opinion in Raku
    my @final-array = @array.unique.sort.reverse;
Raku has more functions, more operations, more flexibility.

Await may do what you want see
    https://docs.raku.org/routine/await
but using Cro may be cleaner.    

Raku does not have modules that help write PDF files as far as I know.
Perl 5 has way more modules.  If you need a module that Perl 5 does
not have but Raku does and you don't want to write it you'll want to
use Perl 5.   But, I can do most my work with Raku and love it.
Raku is written in Raku using a Raku "grammar".  Raku regexes are more
powerful than Perl 5 regular expressions.  Raku has "infinite" precision
arithmetic built in for integers and rational numbers.

-mark

From turne349 at purdue.edu  Thu Oct 22 16:15:44 2020
From: turne349 at purdue.edu (Turner, Howard Robert)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 23:15:44 +0000
Subject: [Purdue-pm] Threads and forks
In-Reply-To: <22970.1603379258@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>
References: <MN2PR22MB1856CC3116E6A94B331B0D6BE51D0@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
 <22970.1603379258@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <MN2PR22MB18563CF4940D6609A346D71DE51D0@MN2PR22MB1856.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Dave,

Thanks for the suggestion on MCE. I'll read about it this weekend. To answer your other question. Essentially my Perl program is logging into a web application and running a utility that calls back to the system that the Perl script is running from. I was hoping to have the Perl program 'catch' call back or perhaps launch a thread or something that can listen for the call back. My terminology may be off so apologies in advance still learning! I hope this gets the idea/concept across though?

Mark,

Thanks for the Raku articles too. I'll take a look at them for my edification. At the moment, I'm really trying to focus on getting better at Perl 5 as work currently relies on it fairly heavily. Really need to look into Raku though just to be more versed on the differences between the two languages.

Rob

________________________________
From: Mark Senn <mark at purdue.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 11:07:38 AM
To: Turner, Howard Robert <turne349 at purdue.edu>
Cc: perl at ecn.purdue.edu <perl at ecn.purdue.edu>; Purdue Perl Mongers <purdue-pm at pm.org>
Subject: Re: [Purdue-pm] Threads and forks

Rob Turner <turne349 at purdue.edu> wrote on 2020-10-22 at 01:10+00:
|  Greetings again everyone.
|
|  Looking for some advice. I'm writing a small program that talks to a
|  webserver and ends waiting for a connection back from the
|  webserver. Problem is I can only figure out to have the call back
|  handled or my Perl program continue processing but not both.
|
|  Started reading the Perl threads tutorial but it suggests not using
|  threads and then started reading about fork instead. So a little
|  overwhelmed in figuring out which one is "the right way".
|
|  Anyone have suggestions and/or tutorials they'd suggest reviewing beyond
|  the ones on perldoc?
|
|  Respectfully,
|  Rob

Rob,

I like Raku (formerly known as Perl 6) better than Perl 5.  Raku is harder to
learn than Perl 5 because it is much more powerful.  Fewer people know
Raku than Perl 5.  Raku is not installed on as many computers.  My return
on investment learning Raku has been excellent.

If you'd like to make the jump to Raku this quote
    Raku is designed to support parallelism, asynchronicity and concurrency.
is from
    https://docs.raku.org/language/concurrency

I'm guessing you want to go async because you're sending requests to
multiple webservers and/or sending a message to a single web server
that will require lots of computation.  Is that correct?

See
    https://zostay.com/posts/2019/12/01/introducing-async-concurrency-in-raku/
for around 20 other async/concurrency articles.

See
    https://cro.services
for information on Cro.  From the web page:
    Cro is a set of libraries for building reactive distributed systems,
    lovingly crafted to take advantage of all Raku (formerly Perl 6) has to
    offer. The high level APIs make the easy things easy, and the
    asynchronous pipeline concept at Cro's heart makes the hard things
    possible.

https://raku.guide/ is a good intro to Raku.  Raku is Object-Oriented,
OO stuff is built in on Raku, bolted on in Perl 5.  From the web page
    my @final-array = reverse(sort(unique(@array)));
is easier to read in my opinion in Raku
    my @final-array = @array.unique.sort.reverse;
Raku has more functions, more operations, more flexibility.

Await may do what you want see
    https://docs.raku.org/routine/await
but using Cro may be cleaner.

Raku does not have modules that help write PDF files as far as I know.
Perl 5 has way more modules.  If you need a module that Perl 5 does
not have but Raku does and you don't want to write it you'll want to
use Perl 5.   But, I can do most my work with Raku and love it.
Raku is written in Raku using a Raku "grammar".  Raku regexes are more
powerful than Perl 5 regular expressions.  Raku has "infinite" precision
arithmetic built in for integers and rational numbers.

-mark
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From mark at purdue.edu  Fri Oct 23 16:43:26 2020
From: mark at purdue.edu (Mark Senn)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 19:43:26 -0400
Subject: [Purdue-pm] FYI: PDF::Haru vs. PDF::Create
Message-ID: <37814.1603496606@pier.ecn.purdue.edu>

Purdue Perl Mongers,

If you are looking for a way to create PDF files in Perl 5
I suggest using PDF::Haru instead of PDF::Create.  I started
out with Create, wanted to change line thinkness but Create
apparently doesn't have a way to change that.  Haru does.
PDF::Create only requires Perl, PDF::Haru requires you install
the libharu C library but it includes lots of stuff that Create
doesn't and isn't harder to use.

-mark