From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Fri Mar 2 16:14:55 2007 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 17:14:55 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm Message-ID: <20070303001455.GA29653@thelackthereof.org> Greetings Fellow Perl Addicts, Inspired by Tony's good example (hosting a social meetup, which is taking place tomorrow (see his previous email for details)), and prodded by Scott and Jon, it seems to be about time to have a Phoenix.PM meeting. We were up in Scottsdale last time, so I'm shooting for Tempe this time. Time: Wednesday 14 March 2007 7:00pm-9:00pm Location: Mill's End Cafe, Tempe, AZ http://maps.google.com/maps?q=310+S+Mill+Ave+tempe,+az North-West corner of Mill and 3rd (N of University Ave) in Tempe Parking off of 3rd (free with validation) Topic: News in the Perl World (Brock) Level I topic: TBA Level II topic: TBA Other: Free wireless, bring your laptops! I was thinking that a good level I topic (beginner/intermediate) would be closures (anonymous subroutines). But if that is too much another great one would be showing off that 10-line program you whipped together in an hour that you can't live without (mine is my mp3 player). And there are all sorts of advanced topics... topic leader volunteers, unveil yourselves! I'm also dragging in some fresh blood (Mike and maybe Brian from my work)... and I encourage y'all to do the same :) So lets hear those topic ideas, so I can then cross post this all over the interweb. --Brock From intertwingled at qwest.net Sat Mar 3 09:04:19 2007 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (Anthony R. Nemmer) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 10:04:19 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] last minute reminder Message-ID: <45E9AA93.8060207@qwest.net> Dear Phoenix PM members: We will be having at Tempe/East Valley Perlmongers meeting at the Tempe Four Peaks at 2 P.M. today. I will get there early and scout out a table. It will be marked "PERL" =) Tony -- I always have coffee when I watch radar! From dwchandler at stilyagin.com Sat Mar 3 09:54:04 2007 From: dwchandler at stilyagin.com (Darrin Chandler) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 10:54:04 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] PhxBUG Meeting - This Tuesday - Honeyd Message-ID: <20070303175404.GD5469@jeeves.stilyagin.com> This month's presentation will be "An Introduction to Honeyd: A HoneyNet in a Jar." Following up on Darren Spruell's excellent presentation of HoneyNets and the HoneyNet project, I (dwc) will give a tour of honeyd, a very configurable honeynet daemon written by Niels Provos (now at Google, formerly an OpenBSD developer). Honeyd can be configured to emulate the network stacks of various operating systems, provide various services, and answer on unused IP addresses or whole subnets. This month we have a new location at ASU, courtesty of Wayne. Thanks, Wayne! It's in Tempe Center on the corner of Mill & University, with free parking from 7PM in Lot 16. After the presentation we will meet up at Casey Moore's Oyster House just around the corner. Map links, etc., on the web site. -- Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group dwchandler at stilyagin.com | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ http://www.stilyagin.com/darrin/ | From dwchandler at stilyagin.com Sat Mar 3 11:56:26 2007 From: dwchandler at stilyagin.com (Darrin Chandler) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 12:56:26 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] PhxBUG Meeting - This Tuesday - Honeyd In-Reply-To: <20070303175404.GD5469@jeeves.stilyagin.com> References: <20070303175404.GD5469@jeeves.stilyagin.com> Message-ID: <20070303195626.GI5469@jeeves.stilyagin.com> Forgot to add: this event is co-sponsored by LOPSA-US-AZ[1], the local chapter of the League of Professional System Administrators. :) [1] http://lopsa.org/LOPSA-US-AZ -- Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group dwchandler at stilyagin.com | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ http://www.stilyagin.com/darrin/ | From intertwingled at qwest.net Sat Mar 3 23:43:48 2007 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (Anthony R. Nemmer) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 00:43:48 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] a great success Message-ID: <45EA78B4.1010707@qwest.net> The tempe perlmongers meeting was a great success and a grand time was had by all! See ya all next time! Tony -- I always have coffee when I watch radar! From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Tue Mar 13 12:55:11 2007 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:55:11 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm In-Reply-To: <20070303001455.GA29653@thelackthereof.org> References: <20070303001455.GA29653@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20070313195511.GR29653@thelackthereof.org> We have a meeting tomorrow! We don't have a specific presentation at this point, but we do have several discussion topics: * mod_perl -- your experiences and a technical overview * Visualizing code with graphviz * Short scripts you can't live without (I'll show my music player wrapper) * Show off code you've been working on recently! See you there! --Brock On 2007.03.02.17.14, Brock wrote: | Greetings Fellow Perl Addicts, | | Inspired by Tony's good example (hosting a social meetup, which is | taking place tomorrow (see his previous email for details)), and prodded | by Scott and Jon, it seems to be about time to have a Phoenix.PM | meeting. We were up in Scottsdale last time, so I'm shooting for Tempe | this time. | | Time: Wednesday 14 March 2007 7:00pm-9:00pm | Location: Mill's End Cafe, Tempe, AZ | http://maps.google.com/maps?q=310+S+Mill+Ave+tempe,+az | North-West corner of Mill and 3rd (N of University Ave) in Tempe | Parking off of 3rd (free with validation) | Topic: News in the Perl World (Brock) | Level I topic: TBA | Level II topic: TBA | Other: Free wireless, bring your laptops! | | I was thinking that a good level I topic (beginner/intermediate) would | be closures (anonymous subroutines). But if that is too much another | great one would be showing off that 10-line program you whipped together | in an hour that you can't live without (mine is my mp3 player). And | there are all sorts of advanced topics... topic leader volunteers, | unveil yourselves! | | I'm also dragging in some fresh blood (Mike and maybe Brian from my | work)... and I encourage y'all to do the same :) | | So lets hear those topic ideas, so I can then cross post this all over | the interweb. | | --Brock | From scott at illogics.org Wed Mar 14 06:42:45 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:42:45 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm In-Reply-To: <20070313195511.GR29653@thelackthereof.org> References: <20070303001455.GA29653@thelackthereof.org> <20070313195511.GR29653@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20070314134245.GG1658@straylight> > * Visualizing code with graphviz I assume this is a reference to my recent addition to the ideas list on the Wiki. Very well then. Even Brock is allowed to make requests. Let me give some more background and try to sell the presentation a bit better. A certain large shopping comparison site [1] recruited me recently and I've been trying to come up to speed on the code. The codebase is about 200,000 lines of code that's been worked on by many people over several years. While trying to make heads or tails of it, I decided I needed something like the what the Linux community did with the Linux Kernel Graphing Project: http://www.visualcomplexity.com/vc/project_details.cfm?id=261&index=261&domain= The idea is to plot out, on paper, which method calls which other methods, thus creating a visual "map" of the code structure. The presentation will be about how I collected the data inside of mod_perl (I had help, using work he'd already done), processed it, and turned it into a giant poster, spread across 30 printed pages. Initially, I tried to plot on a method level resolution of which method calls each other method in the system. That turned out to be entirely too much data. The result of the first poster attempt looked like a sewing machine exploded, sending thread everywhere in big knots and balls. The poster was half ink and half white with unreadable labels. The second version was a lot less fun but a lot more readable. My approach uses a similar approach to http://www.ida.liu.se/~vaden/cgdi/ where profiling data is collected, rather than the LKGP approach, where a full static analysis is done (though that was my first approach). I brought an unassembled print out of the 30 pages with me for the "class" to assemble if they wish ;) These techniques should be useful to anyone confronted with a dauntingly large or complex codebase they have to work on. -scott Footnote 1: Name withheld on the 'net to disassociate them from any "this is what really pissed me off at work today" posts I might make. On 0, Brock wrote: > We have a meeting tomorrow! We don't have a specific presentation at > this point, but we do have several discussion topics: > > * mod_perl -- your experiences and a technical overview > * Visualizing code with graphviz > * Short scripts you can't live without (I'll show my music player wrapper) > * Show off code you've been working on recently! > > See you there! > > --Brock > > On 2007.03.02.17.14, Brock wrote: > | Greetings Fellow Perl Addicts, > | > | Inspired by Tony's good example (hosting a social meetup, which is > | taking place tomorrow (see his previous email for details)), and prodded > | by Scott and Jon, it seems to be about time to have a Phoenix.PM > | meeting. We were up in Scottsdale last time, so I'm shooting for Tempe > | this time. > | > | Time: Wednesday 14 March 2007 7:00pm-9:00pm > | Location: Mill's End Cafe, Tempe, AZ > | http://maps.google.com/maps?q=310+S+Mill+Ave+tempe,+az > | North-West corner of Mill and 3rd (N of University Ave) in Tempe > | Parking off of 3rd (free with validation) > | Topic: News in the Perl World (Brock) > | Level I topic: TBA > | Level II topic: TBA > | Other: Free wireless, bring your laptops! > | > | I was thinking that a good level I topic (beginner/intermediate) would > | be closures (anonymous subroutines). But if that is too much another > | great one would be showing off that 10-line program you whipped together > | in an hour that you can't live without (mine is my mp3 player). And > | there are all sorts of advanced topics... topic leader volunteers, > | unveil yourselves! > | > | I'm also dragging in some fresh blood (Mike and maybe Brian from my > | work)... and I encourage y'all to do the same :) > | > | So lets hear those topic ideas, so I can then cross post this all over > | the interweb. > | > | --Brock > | > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Wed Mar 14 06:56:55 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:56:55 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] RSVP? / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm In-Reply-To: <20070314134245.GG1658@straylight> References: <20070303001455.GA29653@thelackthereof.org> <20070313195511.GR29653@thelackthereof.org> <20070314134245.GG1658@straylight> Message-ID: <20070314135655.GB1661@straylight> Now that ya'll know at least one thing you're getting out of the deal, who thinks they can make it? We don't need to reserve seating or anything, but more people are likely to come if they see that others are going to be there. -scott On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > > * Visualizing code with graphviz > > I assume this is a reference to my recent addition to the ideas list on the > Wiki. Very well then. Even Brock is allowed to make requests. > > Let me give some more background and try to sell the presentation a bit > better. A certain large shopping comparison site [1] recruited me recently > and I've been trying to come up to speed on the code. The codebase is about > 200,000 lines of code that's been worked on by many people over several years. > While trying to make heads or tails of it, I decided I needed something > like the what the Linux community did with the Linux Kernel Graphing > Project: > http://www.visualcomplexity.com/vc/project_details.cfm?id=261&index=261&domain= > > The idea is to plot out, on paper, which method calls which other methods, thus > creating a visual "map" of the code structure. The presentation will be > about how I collected the data inside of mod_perl (I had help, using work > he'd already done), processed it, and turned it into a giant poster, spread > across 30 printed pages. > > Initially, I tried to plot on a method level resolution of which method calls > each other method in the system. That turned out to be entirely too much > data. The result of the first poster attempt looked like a sewing machine > exploded, sending thread everywhere in big knots and balls. The poster > was half ink and half white with unreadable labels. The second version > was a lot less fun but a lot more readable. > > My approach uses a similar approach to http://www.ida.liu.se/~vaden/cgdi/ > where profiling data is collected, rather than the LKGP approach, where > a full static analysis is done (though that was my first approach). > > I brought an unassembled print out of the 30 pages with me for the "class" > to assemble if they wish ;) > > These techniques should be useful to anyone confronted with a dauntingly > large or complex codebase they have to work on. > > -scott > > Footnote 1: Name withheld on the 'net to disassociate them from any "this is > what really pissed me off at work today" posts I might make. > > > On 0, Brock wrote: > > We have a meeting tomorrow! We don't have a specific presentation at > > this point, but we do have several discussion topics: > > > > * mod_perl -- your experiences and a technical overview > > * Visualizing code with graphviz > > * Short scripts you can't live without (I'll show my music player wrapper) > > * Show off code you've been working on recently! > > > > See you there! > > > > --Brock > > > > On 2007.03.02.17.14, Brock wrote: > > | Greetings Fellow Perl Addicts, > > | > > | Inspired by Tony's good example (hosting a social meetup, which is > > | taking place tomorrow (see his previous email for details)), and prodded > > | by Scott and Jon, it seems to be about time to have a Phoenix.PM > > | meeting. We were up in Scottsdale last time, so I'm shooting for Tempe > > | this time. > > | > > | Time: Wednesday 14 March 2007 7:00pm-9:00pm > > | Location: Mill's End Cafe, Tempe, AZ > > | http://maps.google.com/maps?q=310+S+Mill+Ave+tempe,+az > > | North-West corner of Mill and 3rd (N of University Ave) in Tempe > > | Parking off of 3rd (free with validation) > > | Topic: News in the Perl World (Brock) > > | Level I topic: TBA > > | Level II topic: TBA > > | Other: Free wireless, bring your laptops! > > | > > | I was thinking that a good level I topic (beginner/intermediate) would > > | be closures (anonymous subroutines). But if that is too much another > > | great one would be showing off that 10-line program you whipped together > > | in an hour that you can't live without (mine is my mp3 player). And > > | there are all sorts of advanced topics... topic leader volunteers, > > | unveil yourselves! > > | > > | I'm also dragging in some fresh blood (Mike and maybe Brian from my > > | work)... and I encourage y'all to do the same :) > > | > > | So lets hear those topic ideas, so I can then cross post this all over > > | the interweb. > > | > > | --Brock > > | > > _______________________________________________ > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From awwaiid at gmail.com Wed Mar 14 14:10:35 2007 From: awwaiid at gmail.com (Brock) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:10:35 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] RSVP? / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm In-Reply-To: <20070314135655.GB1661@straylight> References: <20070303001455.GA29653@thelackthereof.org> <20070313195511.GR29653@thelackthereof.org> <20070314134245.GG1658@straylight> <20070314135655.GB1661@straylight> Message-ID: I'll be there! and I'm bringing a friend. (Sorry for the delayed reply... I broke my mail server and it is still catching up...) --Brock On 3/14/07, Scott Walters wrote: > > Now that ya'll know at least one thing you're getting out of the deal, > who thinks they can make it? We don't need to reserve seating or > anything, but more people are likely to come if they see that others > are going to be there. > > -scott > > On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > > > * Visualizing code with graphviz > > > > I assume this is a reference to my recent addition to the ideas list on > the > > Wiki. Very well then. Even Brock is allowed to make requests. > > > > Let me give some more background and try to sell the presentation a bit > > better. A certain large shopping comparison site [1] recruited me > recently > > and I've been trying to come up to speed on the code. The codebase is > about > > 200,000 lines of code that's been worked on by many people over several > years. > > While trying to make heads or tails of it, I decided I needed something > > like the what the Linux community did with the Linux Kernel Graphing > > Project: > > > http://www.visualcomplexity.com/vc/project_details.cfm?id=261&index=261&domain= > > > > The idea is to plot out, on paper, which method calls which other > methods, thus > > creating a visual "map" of the code structure. The presentation will be > > about how I collected the data inside of mod_perl (I had help, using > work > > he'd already done), processed it, and turned it into a giant poster, > spread > > across 30 printed pages. > > > > Initially, I tried to plot on a method level resolution of which method > calls > > each other method in the system. That turned out to be entirely too > much > > data. The result of the first poster attempt looked like a sewing > machine > > exploded, sending thread everywhere in big knots and balls. The poster > > was half ink and half white with unreadable labels. The second version > > was a lot less fun but a lot more readable. > > > > My approach uses a similar approach to > http://www.ida.liu.se/~vaden/cgdi/ > > where profiling data is collected, rather than the LKGP approach, where > > a full static analysis is done (though that was my first approach). > > > > I brought an unassembled print out of the 30 pages with me for the > "class" > > to assemble if they wish ;) > > > > These techniques should be useful to anyone confronted with a dauntingly > > large or complex codebase they have to work on. > > > > -scott > > > > Footnote 1: Name withheld on the 'net to disassociate them from any > "this is > > what really pissed me off at work today" posts I might make. > > > > > > On 0, Brock wrote: > > > We have a meeting tomorrow! We don't have a specific presentation at > > > this point, but we do have several discussion topics: > > > > > > * mod_perl -- your experiences and a technical overview > > > * Visualizing code with graphviz > > > * Short scripts you can't live without (I'll show my music player > wrapper) > > > * Show off code you've been working on recently! > > > > > > See you there! > > > > > > --Brock > > > > > > On 2007.03.02.17.14, Brock wrote: > > > | Greetings Fellow Perl Addicts, > > > | > > > | Inspired by Tony's good example (hosting a social meetup, which is > > > | taking place tomorrow (see his previous email for details)), and > prodded > > > | by Scott and Jon, it seems to be about time to have a Phoenix.PM > > > | meeting. We were up in Scottsdale last time, so I'm shooting for > Tempe > > > | this time. > > > | > > > | Time: Wednesday 14 March 2007 7:00pm-9:00pm > > > | Location: Mill's End Cafe, Tempe, AZ > > > | http://maps.google.com/maps?q=310+S+Mill+Ave+tempe,+az > > > | North-West corner of Mill and 3rd (N of University Ave) > in Tempe > > > | Parking off of 3rd (free with validation) > > > | Topic: News in the Perl World (Brock) > > > | Level I topic: TBA > > > | Level II topic: TBA > > > | Other: Free wireless, bring your laptops! > > > | > > > | I was thinking that a good level I topic (beginner/intermediate) > would > > > | be closures (anonymous subroutines). But if that is too much another > > > | great one would be showing off that 10-line program you whipped > together > > > | in an hour that you can't live without (mine is my mp3 player). And > > > | there are all sorts of advanced topics... topic leader volunteers, > > > | unveil yourselves! > > > | > > > | I'm also dragging in some fresh blood (Mike and maybe Brian from my > > > | work)... and I encourage y'all to do the same :) > > > | > > > | So lets hear those topic ideas, so I can then cross post this all > over > > > | the interweb. > > > | > > > | --Brock > > > | > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/phoenix-pm/attachments/20070314/1022a61b/attachment.html From cbeber at darkscape.net Wed Mar 14 14:12:46 2007 From: cbeber at darkscape.net (Christopher Beber) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:12:46 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] RSVP? / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm In-Reply-To: <20070314135655.GB1661@straylight> References: <20070303001455.GA29653@thelackthereof.org> <20070313195511.GR29653@thelackthereof.org> <20070314134245.GG1658@straylight> <20070314135655.GB1661@straylight> Message-ID: <51828986-5366-4D67-9D29-1C8CA48783C6@darkscape.net> I'm going to show up. On Mar 14, 2007, at 6:56 AM, Scott Walters wrote: > Now that ya'll know at least one thing you're getting out of the deal, > who thinks they can make it? We don't need to reserve seating or > anything, but more people are likely to come if they see that others > are going to be there. > > -scott > > On 0, Scott Walters wrote: >>> * Visualizing code with graphviz >> >> I assume this is a reference to my recent addition to the ideas >> list on the >> Wiki. Very well then. Even Brock is allowed to make requests. >> >> Let me give some more background and try to sell the presentation >> a bit >> better. A certain large shopping comparison site [1] recruited me >> recently >> and I've been trying to come up to speed on the code. The >> codebase is about >> 200,000 lines of code that's been worked on by many people over >> several years. >> While trying to make heads or tails of it, I decided I needed >> something >> like the what the Linux community did with the Linux Kernel Graphing >> Project: >> http://www.visualcomplexity.com/vc/project_details.cfm? >> id=261&index=261&domain= >> >> The idea is to plot out, on paper, which method calls which other >> methods, thus >> creating a visual "map" of the code structure. The presentation >> will be >> about how I collected the data inside of mod_perl (I had help, >> using work >> he'd already done), processed it, and turned it into a giant >> poster, spread >> across 30 printed pages. >> >> Initially, I tried to plot on a method level resolution of which >> method calls >> each other method in the system. That turned out to be entirely >> too much >> data. The result of the first poster attempt looked like a sewing >> machine >> exploded, sending thread everywhere in big knots and balls. The >> poster >> was half ink and half white with unreadable labels. The second >> version >> was a lot less fun but a lot more readable. >> >> My approach uses a similar approach to http://www.ida.liu.se/ >> ~vaden/cgdi/ >> where profiling data is collected, rather than the LKGP approach, >> where >> a full static analysis is done (though that was my first approach). >> >> I brought an unassembled print out of the 30 pages with me for the >> "class" >> to assemble if they wish ;) >> >> These techniques should be useful to anyone confronted with a >> dauntingly >> large or complex codebase they have to work on. >> >> -scott >> >> Footnote 1: Name withheld on the 'net to disassociate them from >> any "this is >> what really pissed me off at work today" posts I might make. >> >> >> On 0, Brock wrote: >>> We have a meeting tomorrow! We don't have a specific presentation at >>> this point, but we do have several discussion topics: >>> >>> * mod_perl -- your experiences and a technical overview >>> * Visualizing code with graphviz >>> * Short scripts you can't live without (I'll show my music >>> player wrapper) >>> * Show off code you've been working on recently! >>> >>> See you there! >>> >>> --Brock >>> >>> On 2007.03.02.17.14, Brock wrote: >>> | Greetings Fellow Perl Addicts, >>> | >>> | Inspired by Tony's good example (hosting a social meetup, which is >>> | taking place tomorrow (see his previous email for details)), >>> and prodded >>> | by Scott and Jon, it seems to be about time to have a Phoenix.PM >>> | meeting. We were up in Scottsdale last time, so I'm shooting >>> for Tempe >>> | this time. >>> | >>> | Time: Wednesday 14 March 2007 7:00pm-9:00pm >>> | Location: Mill's End Cafe, Tempe, AZ >>> | http://maps.google.com/maps?q=310+S+Mill+Ave+tempe,+az >>> | North-West corner of Mill and 3rd (N of University >>> Ave) in Tempe >>> | Parking off of 3rd (free with validation) >>> | Topic: News in the Perl World (Brock) >>> | Level I topic: TBA >>> | Level II topic: TBA >>> | Other: Free wireless, bring your laptops! >>> | >>> | I was thinking that a good level I topic (beginner/ >>> intermediate) would >>> | be closures (anonymous subroutines). But if that is too much >>> another >>> | great one would be showing off that 10-line program you whipped >>> together >>> | in an hour that you can't live without (mine is my mp3 player). >>> And >>> | there are all sorts of advanced topics... topic leader volunteers, >>> | unveil yourselves! >>> | >>> | I'm also dragging in some fresh blood (Mike and maybe Brian >>> from my >>> | work)... and I encourage y'all to do the same :) >>> | >>> | So lets hear those topic ideas, so I can then cross post this >>> all over >>> | the interweb. >>> | >>> | --Brock >>> | >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phoenix-pm mailing list >>> Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From nathan.oyler at sap.com Wed Mar 14 14:10:40 2007 From: nathan.oyler at sap.com (Oyler, Nathan) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:10:40 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] RSVP? / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm In-Reply-To: <20070314135655.GB1661@straylight> Message-ID: I'll be there. -----Original Message----- From: phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Scott Walters Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:57 AM To: Brock Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org Subject: [Phoenix-pm] RSVP? / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14,2007 @ 7:00pm Now that ya'll know at least one thing you're getting out of the deal, who thinks they can make it? We don't need to reserve seating or anything, but more people are likely to come if they see that others are going to be there. -scott On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > > * Visualizing code with graphviz > > I assume this is a reference to my recent addition to the ideas list on the > Wiki. Very well then. Even Brock is allowed to make requests. > > Let me give some more background and try to sell the presentation a bit > better. A certain large shopping comparison site [1] recruited me recently > and I've been trying to come up to speed on the code. The codebase is about > 200,000 lines of code that's been worked on by many people over several years. > While trying to make heads or tails of it, I decided I needed something > like the what the Linux community did with the Linux Kernel Graphing > Project: > http://www.visualcomplexity.com/vc/project_details.cfm?id=261&index=261& domain= > > The idea is to plot out, on paper, which method calls which other methods, thus > creating a visual "map" of the code structure. The presentation will be > about how I collected the data inside of mod_perl (I had help, using work > he'd already done), processed it, and turned it into a giant poster, spread > across 30 printed pages. > > Initially, I tried to plot on a method level resolution of which method calls > each other method in the system. That turned out to be entirely too much > data. The result of the first poster attempt looked like a sewing machine > exploded, sending thread everywhere in big knots and balls. The poster > was half ink and half white with unreadable labels. The second version > was a lot less fun but a lot more readable. > > My approach uses a similar approach to http://www.ida.liu.se/~vaden/cgdi/ > where profiling data is collected, rather than the LKGP approach, where > a full static analysis is done (though that was my first approach). > > I brought an unassembled print out of the 30 pages with me for the "class" > to assemble if they wish ;) > > These techniques should be useful to anyone confronted with a dauntingly > large or complex codebase they have to work on. > > -scott > > Footnote 1: Name withheld on the 'net to disassociate them from any "this is > what really pissed me off at work today" posts I might make. > > > On 0, Brock wrote: > > We have a meeting tomorrow! We don't have a specific presentation at > > this point, but we do have several discussion topics: > > > > * mod_perl -- your experiences and a technical overview > > * Visualizing code with graphviz > > * Short scripts you can't live without (I'll show my music player wrapper) > > * Show off code you've been working on recently! > > > > See you there! > > > > --Brock > > > > On 2007.03.02.17.14, Brock wrote: > > | Greetings Fellow Perl Addicts, > > | > > | Inspired by Tony's good example (hosting a social meetup, which is > > | taking place tomorrow (see his previous email for details)), and prodded > > | by Scott and Jon, it seems to be about time to have a Phoenix.PM > > | meeting. We were up in Scottsdale last time, so I'm shooting for Tempe > > | this time. > > | > > | Time: Wednesday 14 March 2007 7:00pm-9:00pm > > | Location: Mill's End Cafe, Tempe, AZ > > | http://maps.google.com/maps?q=310+S+Mill+Ave+tempe,+az > > | North-West corner of Mill and 3rd (N of University Ave) in Tempe > > | Parking off of 3rd (free with validation) > > | Topic: News in the Perl World (Brock) > > | Level I topic: TBA > > | Level II topic: TBA > > | Other: Free wireless, bring your laptops! > > | > > | I was thinking that a good level I topic (beginner/intermediate) would > > | be closures (anonymous subroutines). But if that is too much another > > | great one would be showing off that 10-line program you whipped together > > | in an hour that you can't live without (mine is my mp3 player). And > > | there are all sorts of advanced topics... topic leader volunteers, > > | unveil yourselves! > > | > > | I'm also dragging in some fresh blood (Mike and maybe Brian from my > > | work)... and I encourage y'all to do the same :) > > | > > | So lets hear those topic ideas, so I can then cross post this all over > > | the interweb. > > | > > | --Brock > > | > > _______________________________________________ > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm _______________________________________________ Phoenix-pm mailing list Phoenix-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From derek at ninth.org Wed Mar 14 14:22:48 2007 From: derek at ninth.org (Derek Cline) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:22:48 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] RSVP? / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Same. On Mar 14, 2007, at 2:10 PM, Oyler, Nathan wrote: > I'll be there. From katie at aztechfinders.com Wed Mar 14 14:24:24 2007 From: katie at aztechfinders.com (Katie Featherston) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:24:24 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] RSVP? / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <499LcNVyA0268M36@cmsapps01.cms.usa.net> Anybody know anyone who might be interested in the Ipower Perl position? Katie Featherston Tech Finders 480-342-9900 katie at aztechfinders.com www.aztechfinders.com "Here for you 24/7!" -----Original Message----- From: phoenix-pm-bounces+katie=aztechfinders.com at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+katie=aztechfinders.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Oyler, Nathan Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 2:11 PM To: Scott Walters; Brock Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] RSVP? / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14,2007 @ 7:00pm I'll be there. -----Original Message----- From: phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Scott Walters Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:57 AM To: Brock Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org Subject: [Phoenix-pm] RSVP? / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14,2007 @ 7:00pm Now that ya'll know at least one thing you're getting out of the deal, who thinks they can make it? We don't need to reserve seating or anything, but more people are likely to come if they see that others are going to be there. -scott On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > > * Visualizing code with graphviz > > I assume this is a reference to my recent addition to the ideas list on the > Wiki. Very well then. Even Brock is allowed to make requests. > > Let me give some more background and try to sell the presentation a bit > better. A certain large shopping comparison site [1] recruited me recently > and I've been trying to come up to speed on the code. The codebase is about > 200,000 lines of code that's been worked on by many people over several years. > While trying to make heads or tails of it, I decided I needed something > like the what the Linux community did with the Linux Kernel Graphing > Project: > http://www.visualcomplexity.com/vc/project_details.cfm?id=261&index=261& domain= > > The idea is to plot out, on paper, which method calls which other methods, thus > creating a visual "map" of the code structure. The presentation will be > about how I collected the data inside of mod_perl (I had help, using work > he'd already done), processed it, and turned it into a giant poster, spread > across 30 printed pages. > > Initially, I tried to plot on a method level resolution of which method calls > each other method in the system. That turned out to be entirely too much > data. The result of the first poster attempt looked like a sewing machine > exploded, sending thread everywhere in big knots and balls. The poster > was half ink and half white with unreadable labels. The second version > was a lot less fun but a lot more readable. > > My approach uses a similar approach to http://www.ida.liu.se/~vaden/cgdi/ > where profiling data is collected, rather than the LKGP approach, where > a full static analysis is done (though that was my first approach). > > I brought an unassembled print out of the 30 pages with me for the "class" > to assemble if they wish ;) > > These techniques should be useful to anyone confronted with a dauntingly > large or complex codebase they have to work on. > > -scott > > Footnote 1: Name withheld on the 'net to disassociate them from any "this is > what really pissed me off at work today" posts I might make. > > > On 0, Brock wrote: > > We have a meeting tomorrow! We don't have a specific presentation at > > this point, but we do have several discussion topics: > > > > * mod_perl -- your experiences and a technical overview > > * Visualizing code with graphviz > > * Short scripts you can't live without (I'll show my music player wrapper) > > * Show off code you've been working on recently! > > > > See you there! > > > > --Brock > > > > On 2007.03.02.17.14, Brock wrote: > > | Greetings Fellow Perl Addicts, > > | > > | Inspired by Tony's good example (hosting a social meetup, which is > > | taking place tomorrow (see his previous email for details)), and prodded > > | by Scott and Jon, it seems to be about time to have a Phoenix.PM > > | meeting. We were up in Scottsdale last time, so I'm shooting for Tempe > > | this time. > > | > > | Time: Wednesday 14 March 2007 7:00pm-9:00pm > > | Location: Mill's End Cafe, Tempe, AZ > > | http://maps.google.com/maps?q=310+S+Mill+Ave+tempe,+az > > | North-West corner of Mill and 3rd (N of University Ave) in Tempe > > | Parking off of 3rd (free with validation) > > | Topic: News in the Perl World (Brock) > > | Level I topic: TBA > > | Level II topic: TBA > > | Other: Free wireless, bring your laptops! > > | > > | I was thinking that a good level I topic (beginner/intermediate) would > > | be closures (anonymous subroutines). But if that is too much another > > | great one would be showing off that 10-line program you whipped together > > | in an hour that you can't live without (mine is my mp3 player). And > > | there are all sorts of advanced topics... topic leader volunteers, > > | unveil yourselves! > > | > > | I'm also dragging in some fresh blood (Mike and maybe Brian from my > > | work)... and I encourage y'all to do the same :) > > | > > | So lets hear those topic ideas, so I can then cross post this all over > > | the interweb. > > | > > | --Brock > > | > > _______________________________________________ > > Phoenix-pm mailing list > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm _______________________________________________ Phoenix-pm mailing list Phoenix-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm _______________________________________________ Phoenix-pm mailing list Phoenix-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Wed Mar 14 09:00:41 2007 From: scott at illogics.org ('Scott Walters') Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:00:41 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Ride from Fountain Hills? / Re: RSVP? / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm In-Reply-To: <499LcNVyA0268M36@cmsapps01.cms.usa.net> References: <499LcNVyA0268M36@cmsapps01.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <20070314160041.GL1658@straylight> Hi all, We've got a regular stuck in Fountain Hills with his car in the shop. Anyone coming from/through the area who could give him a ride? I would have but as it turns out, I headed to Tempe early to work from Mill's End today. If you can get him down here, I can probably get him home. Mail me or the list if you're up for the errand. If you're in North Scottsdale, coming across Shea and down 87 isn't much worse than coming straight down the 101. Thanks, -scott From scott at illogics.org Wed Mar 14 17:31:11 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:31:11 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Source code for the graph thingie / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm In-Reply-To: <20070314145849.GJ1658@straylight> References: <20070303001455.GA29653@thelackthereof.org> <20070313195511.GR29653@thelackthereof.org> <20070314134245.GG1658@straylight> <20070314145849.GJ1658@straylight> Message-ID: <20070315003111.GD1661@straylight> Ooops, didn't mean to send that quite yet... in particular, I hadn't attached the code... Here's the code. And here are some comments on it... sub opt ($) { scalar grep $_ eq $_[0], @ARGV } sub arg ($) { my @a=args(@_); return () unless @a; return $a[0]; } sub args ($) { grep { my $x = $_ eq $_[0] ... /^-/; $x !~ /E/ and $x and $x > 1; } @ARGV; } I've taken to pasting that in where I need some lightweight argument processing. It's less feature-rich than Getopt. do { no warnings 'misc'; splice @symbol_stack, $indent, @symbol_stack-$indent, ($symbol); }; One splice, ignoring the errors, makes sure that our concept of the current call stack (where the program currently is with regards to which methods have called which other methods and how deeply that's gone) is updated against the two bits of info we've just read: the call stack depth (indicated by how much whitespace there was at the start) and the current method the code is in. $graph->{$symbol_stack[-2]}->{$symbol_stack[-1]}++; The last two things on the call stack are the current method being called from and called to. We bump the counter for that connection (which turns out to be an edge between two nodes on the graph). The number is used to decide how dark to draw the edge (line). my $find_weight = do { This divides all of the nodes up into 16 groups of equal size, each to be assigned a different darkness, 0 through f. There's really not much to it! -scott On 0, Scott Walters wrote: > Hi all, > > Thanks to everyone who came out. It's lovely to be able to sit aorund and > gab with Perl people, or at least gab about Perl with people ;) > > I'll try to include enough details for even those who didn't make it, but > I gotta say, watching eight people try to assemble thirty pages into a poster > on a table top and coming up with an elaborate graph of nodes and edges > everywhere in complex array was the best part. > > Here's my little shell script that runs everything and gets it ready for > print: > > perl parsejohnstrace.pl -f /home/playground/scottwalters/logs/error_log > parsejohn.txt > dot -Tps parsejohn.txt > parsejohn.ps > poster parsejohn.ps -s 3 -o parsejohn.poster.ps > > parsejohnstrace.pl is attached. That's the only bit I did. It > looks for stuff in the log file in a certain format: > > Logging::logHandler > RequestStash::_get_instance > RequestStash::_apache_get_instance > RequestStash::get > RequestStash::_key_defined > Logging::_make_tokenized_args > RequestStash::_get_instance > RequestStash::_apache_get_instance > RequestStash::get > RequestStash::_key_defined > Logging::_tokenize_request_args > Logging::_clean_up_rogue_pid_args > Logging::_array_has_value > Logging::_array_has_value > Logging::_array_has_value > Logging::_array_has_value > Logging::_tokenize_host_args > Logging::app > Application::local_ip > Application::r > > Another program (not included) wraps methods to print out their names with > an indentation level of the depth of the call stack (in other words, if > method A calls B and B calls C, A would be indented none, B once, and > C two spaces). This was an artifact and isn't recommended... if you can > use dprof (Devel::DProf does dprof compatible output) and read that > format, that's much saner that what we did. We were doing this in > Apache mod_perl and had some problems with profiling the ordinary way, > and this Aspect-y stuff was already in use and was easily adapted to > this purpose. > > Hint: don't try to wrap AUTOLOAD methods. It just doesn't work ;) > They quite often look at caller() and wrapping them screws that up. > > The 'poster' program that takes one PostScript page and scales it up into > an arbitrary number of pages is poster. That's available from here: > > http://ctan.unsw.edu.au/support/poster/poster.txt > http://ctan.unsw.edu.au/support/poster.zip > > I think there's a Debian package for that. My Knoppix machine had it already, > I was surprised to see. It's a very old program so it's nice to run into it > randomly like that. > > dot is of course from GraphViz. It takes the graph description in its own > little language and outputs an image or PostScript. PostScript is a > vector format with many tools to work on it, so it was a natual choice. > In particular, poster tiled it across pages so we could make a nice > blown up version. > > parsejohnstrace.pl is attached (so named because I was originally parsing > data logged to a coworker's Apache error_log). It will output GraphViz > format or vcg format graphs. vcg has an interactive graph viewing > mode. > > A few notes about the code... > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: parsejohnstrace.pl Type: application/x-perl Size: 5188 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/phoenix-pm/attachments/20070315/b69b139f/attachment-0001.bin From scott at illogics.org Wed Mar 14 07:58:49 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:58:49 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Source code for the graph thingie / Re: Meeting Announcement - Wed March 14, 2007 @ 7:00pm In-Reply-To: References: <20070303001455.GA29653@thelackthereof.org> <20070313195511.GR29653@thelackthereof.org> <20070314134245.GG1658@straylight> Message-ID: <20070314145849.GJ1658@straylight> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/mixed Size: 3134 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/phoenix-pm/attachments/20070314/2094e663/attachment.bin From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Mon Mar 26 19:27:28 2007 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:27:28 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] YAPC-NA CFP deadline approaching Message-ID: <20070327022728.GL29653@thelackthereof.org> Here is some information from on high. Scott and I are trying to cook something up to present at YAPC::NA, anyone else planning on going? --Brock ----- Forwarded message from Jeremy Fluhmann ----- Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:42:21 -0500 Subject: [pm_groups] YAPC-NA CFP deadline approaching From: Jeremy Fluhmann To: pm_groups at pm.org Please forward to your pm lists (actually, any list that might have an interest) ---- Two weeks remain in the Call For Participation! Visit http:// conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2007 to register as a new user (or login with your existing account) and submit a talk proposal. If possible, please indicate (in the comments section) if you consider this talk to be suitable for a beginner, intermediate, or advanced Perl user. Some of the comments from last year indicated a desire to know the level of knowledge expected of talk attendees. Official CFP posting at http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2007/cfp.html Jeremy Fluhmann http://www.yapc.org/America -- Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org pm_groups mailing list pm_groups at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups ----- End forwarded message ----- From ben at benatkin.com Tue Mar 27 00:16:58 2007 From: ben at benatkin.com (Ben Atkin) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:16:58 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] YAPC-NA CFP deadline approaching In-Reply-To: <20070327022728.GL29653@thelackthereof.org> References: <20070327022728.GL29653@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <5004c9f90703270016o48bd8dc2v56510f1506f337b9@mail.gmail.com> I like how Houston is known for great Houston attractions. http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2007/social.html Ben On 3/26/07, Brock wrote: > > Here is some information from on high. Scott and I are trying to cook > something up to present at YAPC::NA, anyone else planning on going? > > --Brock > > ----- Forwarded message from Jeremy Fluhmann ----- > > Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:42:21 -0500 > Subject: [pm_groups] YAPC-NA CFP deadline approaching > From: Jeremy Fluhmann > To: pm_groups at pm.org > > Please forward to your pm lists (actually, any list that might have an > interest) > ---- > > Two weeks remain in the Call For Participation! Visit http:// > conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2007 to register as a new user (or login with > your > existing account) and submit a talk proposal. If possible, please > indicate (in > the comments section) if you consider this talk to be suitable for a > beginner, > intermediate, or advanced Perl user. Some of the comments from last year > indicated a desire to know the level of knowledge expected of talk > attendees. > > Official CFP posting at http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2007/cfp.html > > Jeremy Fluhmann > http://www.yapc.org/America > > -- > Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org > > pm_groups mailing list > pm_groups at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > -- Ben Atkin ben at benatkin.com http://www.benatkin.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/phoenix-pm/attachments/20070327/939cf9d9/attachment.html From perlguy at earthlink.net Wed Mar 28 10:28:24 2007 From: perlguy at earthlink.net (Douglas E. Miles) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:28:24 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Anyone with threads experience? Message-ID: <460AA5B8.9030109@earthlink.net> All, I am working with a client who has a intermittent error in one of their threaded scripts. Is there anyone out there with thread debugging experience who would like to help them out? I haven't ever done any thread programming. The error that the script dies with is: *** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (fasttop): I'm not posting the code here because I haven't been authorized to do that. :) I searched Google Groups, and found references to this error, but didn't find a common thread (heh). Let me know if you are interested, and I will put you in touch with the appropriate contact. From scott at illogics.org Thu Mar 29 01:00:03 2007 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 01:00:03 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Andy Lester coming just to speak for us! Vote on the presentation topic Message-ID: <20070329080003.GC26543@blacklight.slowass.net> Hi all, I'm responding to a Phoenix-PM request for status at the same time I'm asking Andy himself, and Pat Eyler of Salt Lake City PM, for status. Andy/Pat: Feel free to prune the cc list down to just Brock, I, Pat, and Andy. How's the schedule looking? Is there a weekend in April that stands out? Phoenix.PM/Doug: Andy wrote this a while ago: "The talks that people seem to like most are: Tech debt; preventing stress / scheduling (which kinda relates to tech debt, too); and the job hunting talk. The job hunting talk is a big fave of mine 'cause I'm writing a book about it for Pragmatic. :-) " Salt Lake City PM was shooting for the second half of April, due to scheduling constraints there, and Andy thought that sounded like it would work. If I get a "go" indication, I'll collect $20's at the next meeting. Cheers, -scott On 3/28/07, Brock wrote: > Naw, there was another part of the discussion (online or offline? I > can't recall, Scott is running this one) where we found out that the > folks in colorado are also inviting. So we going to get him on a > southwest-tour in about two months. > > Scott, maybe you should send an update to the list? > > --Brock > > > On 2007.03.28.10.31, Douglas E. Miles wrote: > | Brock wrote: > | > | >While I'm a very big fan of technical talks... the actual stress in my > | >life comes from scheduling. So I vote for (4) "Preventing Crisis". > | > > | >--Brock > | > > | > > | > > | Whatever happened to this? Has Andy already been here and I missed the > | whole thing? If so, I'll still pitch in the $20. Let me know who to > | give it to. > | > | >On 2007.01.30.16.55, Scott Walters wrote: > | >| Hi everyone, > | >| > | >| We basically have enough pledges (thanks for everyone who pledged!), so > | >we're > | >| going to do this thing. We're flying out author, speaker, and long time > | >Perl > | >| hacker and advocate, Andy Lester. > | >| > | >| Andy asked what he should speak on, and I'm defering that to the group > | >at large. | Here are some starting points. If you happen to know of > | >something else you | suspect Andy would speak on, feel free to add to the > | >list. > | >| > | >| 1. Pragmatic Job Hunting (from the title of his in-progress book) > | >| 2. Get out of Technical Debt Now! > | >| 3. SocialText (technical goodies relating to his current > | >employer/project) > | >| 4. Preventing Crisis: Project Estimation And Tracking That Works > | >| (a talk he's previous done) > | >| 5. WWW::Mechanize (field stories, examples, behind the scenes) > | >| (Andy created this well-known module) > | >| 6. Pro Perl Debugging > | >| (talk on the subject of his previous Perl book) > | >| > | >| Every vote counts, so speak up! > | >| > | >| Cheers, > | >| -scott > | >| > | >| > | >| _______________________________________________ > | >| Phoenix-pm mailing list > | >| Phoenix-pm at pm.org > | >| http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > | >_______________________________________________ > | >Phoenix-pm mailing list > | >Phoenix-pm at pm.org > | >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > | > > | > > | >