From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com  Thu Jun  1 08:17:32 2006
From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:17:32 -0400
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] YAPC::NA
Message-ID: <49d805d70606010817s66eb1764qeed23d5195362a3a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there fellow Perl Mongers.  I'm writing to remind you all that
YAPC::NA is only a few weeks away.  The conference will be held in
Chicago June 26th through 28th and will feature four simultaneous
sessions of Perl talks for three days in addition to a job fair,
banquet, and auction.  After the conference Damian Conway, Randal
Schwartz, and brian d foy will be sticking around and conducting
professional training classes and extremely reduced prices.

This email is a little spammy (sorry about that), but I just wanted to
remind you all about the conference and also ask for your help in
promoting it so that we can fill up the few spots that are remaining.

For more information check out http://www.yapcchicago.org.

We invite you to put up posters:

 http://yapcchicago.org/yapc_poster.pdf
 http://yapcchicago.org/yapc_poster_white.pdf

Or maybe a web banner:

 http://www.yapcchicago.org/yapc_banner_wide.jpg
 http://www.yapcchicago.org/yapc_banner_narrow.jpg

Thank you for your help in making YAPC a success once again,

Josh McAdams

From dwchandler at stilyagin.com  Mon Jun  5 17:07:04 2006
From: dwchandler at stilyagin.com (Darrin Chandler)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 17:07:04 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] June Meeting - Phoenix BSD Users Group - Tomorrow!
Message-ID: <20060606000704.GC28144@jeeves.stilyagin.local>

Hi!

Tomorrow evening, June 6th at 7PM, the Phoenix BSD Users Group will
meet at the Plaid Eatery. This month's presentation, by Marco, is System
Monitoring with Nagios, Nut, and friends. Map link, etc. at
http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/

Join us for the presentation, talk, food, drink and free Wifi. I hope to
see you there!

-- 
Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
http://www.stilyagin.com/  |

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Mon Jun  5 19:52:53 2006
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 19:52:53 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] June Meeting - Phoenix BSD Users Group - Tomorrow!
In-Reply-To: <20060606000704.GC28144@jeeves.stilyagin.local>
References: <20060606000704.GC28144@jeeves.stilyagin.local>
Message-ID: <5455C4C5-6B5C-409B-AD9C-600E9AACB292@highwire.stanford.edu>

Dang, wish I could go.

My company uses Nagios for site monitoring and it works  
fantastically. It can even be setup to perform actions when a monitor  
fails -- and not just emailing someone, too. We have it set to  
automatically restart sites when memory gets low, so no one has to be  
paged. (It runs a perl script to do that, of course!)

If only it were a bit easier to configure...

-- Mike

On Jun 5, 2006, at 5:07 PM, Darrin Chandler wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Tomorrow evening, June 6th at 7PM, the Phoenix BSD Users Group will
> meet at the Plaid Eatery. This month's presentation, by Marco, is  
> System
> Monitoring with Nagios, Nut, and friends. Map link, etc. at
> http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
>
> Join us for the presentation, talk, food, drink and free Wifi. I  
> hope to
> see you there!
>
> -- 
> Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
> dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------



From scott at illogics.org  Mon Jun  5 21:43:42 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 04:43:42 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] June Meeting - Phoenix BSD Users Group - Tomorrow!
In-Reply-To: <5455C4C5-6B5C-409B-AD9C-600E9AACB292@highwire.stanford.edu>
References: <20060606000704.GC28144@jeeves.stilyagin.local>
	<5455C4C5-6B5C-409B-AD9C-600E9AACB292@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <20060606044342.GA1068@illogics.org>

Crud.  I had this in my calendar but still managed to double book.  Friends
are coming over for a game night.  Sorry...

-scott

On  0, Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu> wrote:
> Dang, wish I could go.
> 
> My company uses Nagios for site monitoring and it works  
> fantastically. It can even be setup to perform actions when a monitor  
> fails -- and not just emailing someone, too. We have it set to  
> automatically restart sites when memory gets low, so no one has to be  
> paged. (It runs a perl script to do that, of course!)
> 
> If only it were a bit easier to configure...
> 
> -- Mike
> 
> On Jun 5, 2006, at 5:07 PM, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> 
> > Hi!
> >
> > Tomorrow evening, June 6th at 7PM, the Phoenix BSD Users Group will
> > meet at the Plaid Eatery. This month's presentation, by Marco, is  
> > System
> > Monitoring with Nagios, Nut, and friends. Map link, etc. at
> > http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> >
> > Join us for the presentation, talk, food, drink and free Wifi. I  
> > hope to
> > see you there!
> >
> > -- 
> > Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
> > dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> > http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
> Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
> FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From dwchandler at stilyagin.com  Mon Jun  5 21:42:29 2006
From: dwchandler at stilyagin.com (Darrin Chandler)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 21:42:29 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] June Meeting - Phoenix BSD Users Group - Tomorrow!
In-Reply-To: <20060606044342.GA1068@illogics.org>
References: <20060606000704.GC28144@jeeves.stilyagin.local>
	<5455C4C5-6B5C-409B-AD9C-600E9AACB292@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<20060606044342.GA1068@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <20060606044229.GH28144@jeeves.stilyagin.local>

Oops! Since I *still* haven't made it to a PM meeting I can't say much.

On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 04:43:42AM +0000, Scott Walters wrote:
> Crud.  I had this in my calendar but still managed to double book.  Friends
> are coming over for a game night.  Sorry...
> 
> -scott
> 
> On  0, Michael Friedman <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > Dang, wish I could go.
> > 
> > My company uses Nagios for site monitoring and it works  
> > fantastically. It can even be setup to perform actions when a monitor  
> > fails -- and not just emailing someone, too. We have it set to  
> > automatically restart sites when memory gets low, so no one has to be  
> > paged. (It runs a perl script to do that, of course!)
> > 
> > If only it were a bit easier to configure...
> > 
> > -- Mike
> > 
> > On Jun 5, 2006, at 5:07 PM, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > Tomorrow evening, June 6th at 7PM, the Phoenix BSD Users Group will
> > > meet at the Plaid Eatery. This month's presentation, by Marco, is  
> > > System
> > > Monitoring with Nagios, Nut, and friends. Map link, etc. at
> > > http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> > >
> > > Join us for the presentation, talk, food, drink and free Wifi. I  
> > > hope to
> > > see you there!
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
> > > dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> > > http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
> > Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
> > FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

-- 
Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
http://www.stilyagin.com/  |

From bwmetz at att.com  Wed Jun  7 12:31:27 2006
From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WWCS)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:31:27 -0500
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E8C9@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>

All,
	I'm looking for a quicker method of accessing elements in a multi-level hash.  For example, the hash will have values like so

$hash{1}{2}{3} = "Hello World";
$hash{1}{3}{4}{5} = "the quick brown fox";

The input to the program comes from another I can't control which will ouput values like so:

.1.2.3<tab>Hello World
.1.3.4.5<tab>the quick brown fox

Parsing the values is cake, but what I'm looking for is a faster way to get values in/out of the hash using the ".1.2.3".  Is there some method that allows for arbitrary hash levels without coding using for loops?  I mean clearly recursion would solve this but I was hoping there was something more simple.  Or is recursion the only answer.  I was hoping for something like this, but I know this example doesn't work.  I've searched for a bit but I must be asking the right questions of mighty google.

$index = ".1.2.3";
$index =~ s/^\.//g;
$index =~ s/\./}{/g;
print $hash{$index} . "\n";

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Bobby

From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org  Wed Jun  7 12:52:12 2006
From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:52:12 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
In-Reply-To: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E8C9@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E8C9@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
Message-ID: <20060607195212.GC29829@thelackthereof.org>

Heres a couple ideas. One, you could just flatten your hash -- use

  $hash->{1.2.3} = "Hello World";
  $hash->{1.2.3.4.5} = "the quick brown fox";

but, failing that,

use strict;
my $hash = {};
my $str = ".1.2.3\tHello World";
my ($nums,$text) = split /\t/,$str;
my @indexes = split /\./, $nums;
shift @indexes; # Get rid of the first ""
my $cur = $hash;
while(@indexes) {
  my $index = shift @indexes;
  if(!@indexes) { # this is the last one
    $cur->{$index} = $text;
  } else {
    # We might need to vivify
    $cur->{$index} = {} unless defined $cur->{$index};
    $cur = $cur->{$index};
  }
}
use Data::Dumper;
print "Result: " . Dumper($hash) . "\n";

might help. Simplification, anyone? I suppose you could use evil, er,
eval.

--Brock

On 2006.06.07.14.31, Metz, Bobby W, WWCS wrote:
| All,
| 	I'm looking for a quicker method of accessing elements in a multi-level hash.  For example, the hash will have values like so
| 
| $hash{1}{2}{3} = "Hello World";
| $hash{1}{3}{4}{5} = "the quick brown fox";
| 
| The input to the program comes from another I can't control which will ouput values like so:
| 
| .1.2.3<tab>Hello World
| .1.3.4.5<tab>the quick brown fox
| 
| Parsing the values is cake, but what I'm looking for is a faster way to get values in/out of the hash using the ".1.2.3".  Is there some method that allows for arbitrary hash levels without coding using for loops?  I mean clearly recursion would solve this but I was hoping there was something more simple.  Or is recursion the only answer.  I was hoping for something like this, but I know this example doesn't work.  I've searched for a bit but I must be asking the right questions of mighty google.
| 
| $index = ".1.2.3";
| $index =~ s/^\.//g;
| $index =~ s/\./}{/g;
| print $hash{$index} . "\n";
| 
| Thoughts?
| 
| Thanks,
| 
| Bobby
| _______________________________________________
| Phoenix-pm mailing list
| Phoenix-pm at pm.org
| http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From bwmetz at att.com  Wed Jun  7 12:59:37 2006
From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WWCS)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:59:37 -0500
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
In-Reply-To: <20060607195212.GC29829@thelackthereof.org>
Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E936@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>

Thanks Brock.  
	After sending that message I thought about flattening it as
well...a big resounding "Duh" escaped my lips I must admit.  I
considered eval but quickly squashed that idea.  I should have thought
of a shift method...so thanks, I like that.  I think I need to study the
data source some more as flattening will likely be the simplest method
since each index will have at most two values.  I oversimplified a bit
on the example.

$hash{.1.2.3.4}{name} & $hash{.1.2.3.4}{value}

And since the names will never change, I'll likely just have one hash
for those and an array of hashes for the values.

Thanks for the quick response...very much appreciated.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Brock [mailto:awwaiid at thelackthereof.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:52 PM
To: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?


Heres a couple ideas. One, you could just flatten your hash -- use

  $hash->{1.2.3} = "Hello World";
  $hash->{1.2.3.4.5} = "the quick brown fox";

but, failing that,

use strict;
my $hash = {};
my $str = ".1.2.3\tHello World";
my ($nums,$text) = split /\t/,$str;
my @indexes = split /\./, $nums;
shift @indexes; # Get rid of the first ""
my $cur = $hash;
while(@indexes) {
  my $index = shift @indexes;
  if(!@indexes) { # this is the last one
    $cur->{$index} = $text;
  } else {
    # We might need to vivify
    $cur->{$index} = {} unless defined $cur->{$index};
    $cur = $cur->{$index};
  }
}
use Data::Dumper;
print "Result: " . Dumper($hash) . "\n";

might help. Simplification, anyone? I suppose you could use evil, er,
eval.

--Brock

On 2006.06.07.14.31, Metz, Bobby W, WWCS wrote:
| All,
| 	I'm looking for a quicker method of accessing elements in a
multi-level hash.  For example, the hash will have values like so
| 
| $hash{1}{2}{3} = "Hello World";
| $hash{1}{3}{4}{5} = "the quick brown fox";
| 
| The input to the program comes from another I can't control which will
ouput values like so:
| 
| .1.2.3<tab>Hello World
| .1.3.4.5<tab>the quick brown fox
| 
| Parsing the values is cake, but what I'm looking for is a faster way
to get values in/out of the hash using the ".1.2.3".  Is there some
method that allows for arbitrary hash levels without coding using for
loops?  I mean clearly recursion would solve this but I was hoping there
was something more simple.  Or is recursion the only answer.  I was
hoping for something like this, but I know this example doesn't work.
I've searched for a bit but I must be asking the right questions of
mighty google.
| 
| $index = ".1.2.3";
| $index =~ s/^\.//g;
| $index =~ s/\./}{/g;
| print $hash{$index} . "\n";
| 
| Thoughts?
| 
| Thanks,
| 
| Bobby
| _______________________________________________
| Phoenix-pm mailing list
| Phoenix-pm at pm.org
| http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From bwmetz at att.com  Wed Jun  7 13:03:16 2006
From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WWCS)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:03:16 -0500
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
In-Reply-To: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E936@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E945@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>

Brock,
	May have to give yours a go after all...just dawned on me that
flattening the index will significantly increase storage due to the
duplication of index characters.  Some could have several thousand
values so if it were say six keys deep times a thousand values, it would
add up over time.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org
[mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Metz,
Bobby W, WWCS
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:00 PM
To: Brock
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?


Thanks Brock.  
	After sending that message I thought about flattening it as
well...a big resounding "Duh" escaped my lips I must admit.  I
considered eval but quickly squashed that idea.  I should have thought
of a shift method...so thanks, I like that.  I think I need to study the
data source some more as flattening will likely be the simplest method
since each index will have at most two values.  I oversimplified a bit
on the example.

$hash{.1.2.3.4}{name} & $hash{.1.2.3.4}{value}

And since the names will never change, I'll likely just have one hash
for those and an array of hashes for the values.

Thanks for the quick response...very much appreciated.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Brock [mailto:awwaiid at thelackthereof.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:52 PM
To: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?


Heres a couple ideas. One, you could just flatten your hash -- use

  $hash->{1.2.3} = "Hello World";
  $hash->{1.2.3.4.5} = "the quick brown fox";

but, failing that,

use strict;
my $hash = {};
my $str = ".1.2.3\tHello World";
my ($nums,$text) = split /\t/,$str;
my @indexes = split /\./, $nums;
shift @indexes; # Get rid of the first ""
my $cur = $hash;
while(@indexes) {
  my $index = shift @indexes;
  if(!@indexes) { # this is the last one
    $cur->{$index} = $text;
  } else {
    # We might need to vivify
    $cur->{$index} = {} unless defined $cur->{$index};
    $cur = $cur->{$index};
  }
}
use Data::Dumper;
print "Result: " . Dumper($hash) . "\n";

might help. Simplification, anyone? I suppose you could use evil, er,
eval.

--Brock

On 2006.06.07.14.31, Metz, Bobby W, WWCS wrote:
| All,
| 	I'm looking for a quicker method of accessing elements in a
multi-level hash.  For example, the hash will have values like so
| 
| $hash{1}{2}{3} = "Hello World";
| $hash{1}{3}{4}{5} = "the quick brown fox";
| 
| The input to the program comes from another I can't control which will
ouput values like so:
| 
| .1.2.3<tab>Hello World
| .1.3.4.5<tab>the quick brown fox
| 
| Parsing the values is cake, but what I'm looking for is a faster way
to get values in/out of the hash using the ".1.2.3".  Is there some
method that allows for arbitrary hash levels without coding using for
loops?  I mean clearly recursion would solve this but I was hoping there
was something more simple.  Or is recursion the only answer.  I was
hoping for something like this, but I know this example doesn't work.
I've searched for a bit but I must be asking the right questions of
mighty google.
| 
| $index = ".1.2.3";
| $index =~ s/^\.//g;
| $index =~ s/\./}{/g;
| print $hash{$index} . "\n";
| 
| Thoughts?
| 
| Thanks,
| 
| Bobby
| _______________________________________________
| Phoenix-pm mailing list
| Phoenix-pm at pm.org
| http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
_______________________________________________
Phoenix-pm mailing list
Phoenix-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From bwmetz at att.com  Wed Jun  7 13:19:43 2006
From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WWCS)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:19:43 -0500
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
In-Reply-To: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E945@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E988@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>

For anyone interested...I'd never looked this up before and appears my
memory usage concern is unfounded:

"The key structure, though, is of variable length because the key string
is of variable length, so perl has to ask the system for a memory
allocation for each key. The base size of this structure is 8 or 16
bytes (once again, depending on whether you're on a 32 bit or 64 bit
system) plus the string length plus two bytes.

Since this memory has to be allocated from the system there's the malloc
size-field overhead (4 or 8 bytes) plus the alignment bytes (0 to 7,
depending on your system and the key length) that get added on to the
chunk perl requests. If the key is only 1 character, and you're on a 32
bit system, the allocation will be 16 bytes. If the key is 7 characters
then the allocation is 24 bytes on a 32 bit system. If you're on a 64
bit system the numbers get even larger."

Taken from http://search.cpan.org/~dsugal/Devel-Size-0.64/Size.pm

so, if I'm reading this correctly:

$hash{".1.2.3.4"} --> approx 22 to 29 bytes (sorry not sure how many
alignment bytes would be needed)

vs.

$hash{1}{2}{3}{4} --> approx 16 * 4 or 64 bytes

So, I guess flattening doesn't have the memory trade-off I was worried
about since long hash keys have less impact on memory allocation than
splitting it into nested single char keys.  If I'm reading this wrong,
someone please correct me.

-----Original Message-----
From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org
[mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Metz,
Bobby W, WWCS
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:03 PM
To: Brock
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?


Brock,
	May have to give yours a go after all...just dawned on me that
flattening the index will significantly increase storage due to the
duplication of index characters.  Some could have several thousand
values so if it were say six keys deep times a thousand values, it would
add up over time.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org
[mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Metz,
Bobby W, WWCS
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:00 PM
To: Brock
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?


Thanks Brock.  
	After sending that message I thought about flattening it as
well...a big resounding "Duh" escaped my lips I must admit.  I
considered eval but quickly squashed that idea.  I should have thought
of a shift method...so thanks, I like that.  I think I need to study the
data source some more as flattening will likely be the simplest method
since each index will have at most two values.  I oversimplified a bit
on the example.

$hash{.1.2.3.4}{name} & $hash{.1.2.3.4}{value}

And since the names will never change, I'll likely just have one hash
for those and an array of hashes for the values.

Thanks for the quick response...very much appreciated.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Brock [mailto:awwaiid at thelackthereof.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:52 PM
To: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?


Heres a couple ideas. One, you could just flatten your hash -- use

  $hash->{1.2.3} = "Hello World";
  $hash->{1.2.3.4.5} = "the quick brown fox";

but, failing that,

use strict;
my $hash = {};
my $str = ".1.2.3\tHello World";
my ($nums,$text) = split /\t/,$str;
my @indexes = split /\./, $nums;
shift @indexes; # Get rid of the first ""
my $cur = $hash;
while(@indexes) {
  my $index = shift @indexes;
  if(!@indexes) { # this is the last one
    $cur->{$index} = $text;
  } else {
    # We might need to vivify
    $cur->{$index} = {} unless defined $cur->{$index};
    $cur = $cur->{$index};
  }
}
use Data::Dumper;
print "Result: " . Dumper($hash) . "\n";

might help. Simplification, anyone? I suppose you could use evil, er,
eval.

--Brock

On 2006.06.07.14.31, Metz, Bobby W, WWCS wrote:
| All,
| 	I'm looking for a quicker method of accessing elements in a
multi-level hash.  For example, the hash will have values like so
| 
| $hash{1}{2}{3} = "Hello World";
| $hash{1}{3}{4}{5} = "the quick brown fox";
| 
| The input to the program comes from another I can't control which will
ouput values like so:
| 
| .1.2.3<tab>Hello World
| .1.3.4.5<tab>the quick brown fox
| 
| Parsing the values is cake, but what I'm looking for is a faster way
to get values in/out of the hash using the ".1.2.3".  Is there some
method that allows for arbitrary hash levels without coding using for
loops?  I mean clearly recursion would solve this but I was hoping there
was something more simple.  Or is recursion the only answer.  I was
hoping for something like this, but I know this example doesn't work.
I've searched for a bit but I must be asking the right questions of
mighty google.
| 
| $index = ".1.2.3";
| $index =~ s/^\.//g;
| $index =~ s/\./}{/g;
| print $hash{$index} . "\n";
| 
| Thoughts?
| 
| Thanks,
| 
| Bobby
| _______________________________________________
| Phoenix-pm mailing list
| Phoenix-pm at pm.org
| http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
_______________________________________________
Phoenix-pm mailing list
Phoenix-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
_______________________________________________
Phoenix-pm mailing list
Phoenix-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From bwmetz at att.com  Wed Jun  7 13:25:18 2006
From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WWCS)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:25:18 -0500
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E9AA@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>

OK, one last post before everyone is tired of getting spam from
me...just thought I'd pass this along in case others face this and don't
know this like I didn't.

To allocate buckets in your hash using a single malloc do the following.
This apparently can greatly improve efficiency when building large
hashes like I'll be doing as opposed to the individual mallocs Perl
would do when making individual assignments, but seems to me it'd still
have to re-malloc due to variable lenght key values.

keys %hash = 200;		# Allocates 200 buckets
undef %hash;		# de-allocates the 200 buckets

Anyone have personal experience with using this that could comment on
it's effectiveness in improving efficiency?

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS 
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:20 PM
To: Brock
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: RE: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?


For anyone interested...I'd never looked this up before and appears my
memory usage concern is unfounded:

"The key structure, though, is of variable length because the key string
is of variable length, so perl has to ask the system for a memory
allocation for each key. The base size of this structure is 8 or 16
bytes (once again, depending on whether you're on a 32 bit or 64 bit
system) plus the string length plus two bytes.

Since this memory has to be allocated from the system there's the malloc
size-field overhead (4 or 8 bytes) plus the alignment bytes (0 to 7,
depending on your system and the key length) that get added on to the
chunk perl requests. If the key is only 1 character, and you're on a 32
bit system, the allocation will be 16 bytes. If the key is 7 characters
then the allocation is 24 bytes on a 32 bit system. If you're on a 64
bit system the numbers get even larger."

Taken from http://search.cpan.org/~dsugal/Devel-Size-0.64/Size.pm

so, if I'm reading this correctly:

$hash{".1.2.3.4"} --> approx 22 to 29 bytes (sorry not sure how many
alignment bytes would be needed)

vs.

$hash{1}{2}{3}{4} --> approx 16 * 4 or 64 bytes

So, I guess flattening doesn't have the memory trade-off I was worried
about since long hash keys have less impact on memory allocation than
splitting it into nested single char keys.  If I'm reading this wrong,
someone please correct me.

-----Original Message-----
From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org
[mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Metz,
Bobby W, WWCS
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:03 PM
To: Brock
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?


Brock,
	May have to give yours a go after all...just dawned on me that
flattening the index will significantly increase storage due to the
duplication of index characters.  Some could have several thousand
values so if it were say six keys deep times a thousand values, it would
add up over time.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org
[mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Metz,
Bobby W, WWCS
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:00 PM
To: Brock
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?


Thanks Brock.  
	After sending that message I thought about flattening it as
well...a big resounding "Duh" escaped my lips I must admit.  I
considered eval but quickly squashed that idea.  I should have thought
of a shift method...so thanks, I like that.  I think I need to study the
data source some more as flattening will likely be the simplest method
since each index will have at most two values.  I oversimplified a bit
on the example.

$hash{.1.2.3.4}{name} & $hash{.1.2.3.4}{value}

And since the names will never change, I'll likely just have one hash
for those and an array of hashes for the values.

Thanks for the quick response...very much appreciated.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Brock [mailto:awwaiid at thelackthereof.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:52 PM
To: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?


Heres a couple ideas. One, you could just flatten your hash -- use

  $hash->{1.2.3} = "Hello World";
  $hash->{1.2.3.4.5} = "the quick brown fox";

but, failing that,

use strict;
my $hash = {};
my $str = ".1.2.3\tHello World";
my ($nums,$text) = split /\t/,$str;
my @indexes = split /\./, $nums;
shift @indexes; # Get rid of the first ""
my $cur = $hash;
while(@indexes) {
  my $index = shift @indexes;
  if(!@indexes) { # this is the last one
    $cur->{$index} = $text;
  } else {
    # We might need to vivify
    $cur->{$index} = {} unless defined $cur->{$index};
    $cur = $cur->{$index};
  }
}
use Data::Dumper;
print "Result: " . Dumper($hash) . "\n";

might help. Simplification, anyone? I suppose you could use evil, er,
eval.

--Brock

On 2006.06.07.14.31, Metz, Bobby W, WWCS wrote:
| All,
| 	I'm looking for a quicker method of accessing elements in a
multi-level hash.  For example, the hash will have values like so
| 
| $hash{1}{2}{3} = "Hello World";
| $hash{1}{3}{4}{5} = "the quick brown fox";
| 
| The input to the program comes from another I can't control which will
ouput values like so:
| 
| .1.2.3<tab>Hello World
| .1.3.4.5<tab>the quick brown fox
| 
| Parsing the values is cake, but what I'm looking for is a faster way
to get values in/out of the hash using the ".1.2.3".  Is there some
method that allows for arbitrary hash levels without coding using for
loops?  I mean clearly recursion would solve this but I was hoping there
was something more simple.  Or is recursion the only answer.  I was
hoping for something like this, but I know this example doesn't work.
I've searched for a bit but I must be asking the right questions of
mighty google.
| 
| $index = ".1.2.3";
| $index =~ s/^\.//g;
| $index =~ s/\./}{/g;
| print $hash{$index} . "\n";
| 
| Thoughts?
| 
| Thanks,
| 
| Bobby
| _______________________________________________
| Phoenix-pm mailing list
| Phoenix-pm at pm.org
| http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
_______________________________________________
Phoenix-pm mailing list
Phoenix-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
_______________________________________________
Phoenix-pm mailing list
Phoenix-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From scott at illogics.org  Wed Jun  7 16:11:16 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 23:11:16 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
In-Reply-To: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E8C9@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E8C9@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
Message-ID: <20060607231116.GP1068@illogics.org>

Hey Bobby,

I can try to track this down if you like, but xmath has a patch to Perl that modifies
the grammar to recogize ` as something like . in JavaScript, so you can write 
$hash`foo`bar`baz to mean $hash{foo}{bar}{baz}.  Matching braces are tedious to type.

Data::Alias is nice for making little shortcuts, too:

use Data::Alias;
alias my $bucket = $hash{foo}{bar}{baz}{quux};
$bucket = 20;
print $hash{foo}{bar}{baz}{quux}, "\n"; # 20

If you are designing the datastructure from the beginning, there's the old Perl 4
multidim syntax:

$hash{'foo', 'bar', 'baz', 'quux'} = 20;
$hash{(qw/foo bar baz quux/)} = 20;

That's not the same thing as writing $hash{foo}{bar}{baz}{quux} but if the
keys don't contain binary data and you don't need to list the keys at a
given depth, it's about as useful.

You could also write an lvalue 'dehash' method using Data::Alias:

use Data::Alias;

sub dehash (\%;@) :lvalue {
    my $ref = $_[0];
    for my $i (1..$#_) {
        $ref ||= { }; #manualvivicate
        alias $ref = $ref->{$i};
    }
    $ref;
}

my %hash;
dehash(%hash, qw/foo bar baz/) = 10;
print dehash(%hash, qw/foo bar baz/), "\n";

lvalue assignments to a scalar that's aliased and Perl doesn't dump core.  W00t!

-scott

On  0, "Metz, Bobby W, WWCS" <bwmetz at att.com> wrote:
> All,
> 	I'm looking for a quicker method of accessing elements in a multi-level hash.  For example, the hash will have values like so
> 
> $hash{1}{2}{3} = "Hello World";
> $hash{1}{3}{4}{5} = "the quick brown fox";
> 
> The input to the program comes from another I can't control which will ouput values like so:
> 
> .1.2.3<tab>Hello World
> .1.3.4.5<tab>the quick brown fox
> 
> Parsing the values is cake, but what I'm looking for is a faster way to get values in/out of the hash using the ".1.2.3".  Is there some method that allows for arbitrary hash levels without coding using for loops?  I mean clearly recursion would solve this but I was hoping there was something more simple.  Or is recursion the only answer.  I was hoping for something like this, but I know this example doesn't work.  I've searched for a bit but I must be asking the right questions of mighty google.
> 
> $index = ".1.2.3";
> $index =~ s/^\.//g;
> $index =~ s/\./}{/g;
> print $hash{$index} . "\n";
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bobby
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From scott at illogics.org  Wed Jun  7 16:14:36 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 23:14:36 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
In-Reply-To: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E988@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E945@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
	<01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E5E988@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
Message-ID: <20060607231435.GQ1068@illogics.org>

I should point out that hash keys as stored in the hash use a shared 
string table.  If you're really worried about memory though, use an
mldbm module and go multi-threaded to avoid performance loss due to
cache misses for disc blocks.  It isn't much harder to use the disc
than RAM, depending on what you're storing.

-scott

On  0, "Metz, Bobby W, WWCS" <bwmetz at att.com> wrote:
> For anyone interested...I'd never looked this up before and appears my
> memory usage concern is unfounded:
> 
> "The key structure, though, is of variable length because the key string
> is of variable length, so perl has to ask the system for a memory
> allocation for each key. The base size of this structure is 8 or 16
> bytes (once again, depending on whether you're on a 32 bit or 64 bit
> system) plus the string length plus two bytes.
> 
> Since this memory has to be allocated from the system there's the malloc
> size-field overhead (4 or 8 bytes) plus the alignment bytes (0 to 7,
> depending on your system and the key length) that get added on to the
> chunk perl requests. If the key is only 1 character, and you're on a 32
> bit system, the allocation will be 16 bytes. If the key is 7 characters
> then the allocation is 24 bytes on a 32 bit system. If you're on a 64
> bit system the numbers get even larger."
> 
> Taken from http://search.cpan.org/~dsugal/Devel-Size-0.64/Size.pm
> 
> so, if I'm reading this correctly:
> 
> $hash{".1.2.3.4"} --> approx 22 to 29 bytes (sorry not sure how many
> alignment bytes would be needed)
> 
> vs.
> 
> $hash{1}{2}{3}{4} --> approx 16 * 4 or 64 bytes
> 
> So, I guess flattening doesn't have the memory trade-off I was worried
> about since long hash keys have less impact on memory allocation than
> splitting it into nested single char keys.  If I'm reading this wrong,
> someone please correct me.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org
> [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Metz,
> Bobby W, WWCS
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:03 PM
> To: Brock
> Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
> Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
> 
> 
> Brock,
> 	May have to give yours a go after all...just dawned on me that
> flattening the index will significantly increase storage due to the
> duplication of index characters.  Some could have several thousand
> values so if it were say six keys deep times a thousand values, it would
> add up over time.
> 
> Bobby
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org
> [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Metz,
> Bobby W, WWCS
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:00 PM
> To: Brock
> Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
> Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
> 
> 
> Thanks Brock.  
> 	After sending that message I thought about flattening it as
> well...a big resounding "Duh" escaped my lips I must admit.  I
> considered eval but quickly squashed that idea.  I should have thought
> of a shift method...so thanks, I like that.  I think I need to study the
> data source some more as flattening will likely be the simplest method
> since each index will have at most two values.  I oversimplified a bit
> on the example.
> 
> $hash{.1.2.3.4}{name} & $hash{.1.2.3.4}{value}
> 
> And since the names will never change, I'll likely just have one hash
> for those and an array of hashes for the values.
> 
> Thanks for the quick response...very much appreciated.
> 
> Bobby
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brock [mailto:awwaiid at thelackthereof.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:52 PM
> To: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS
> Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
> Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
> 
> 
> Heres a couple ideas. One, you could just flatten your hash -- use
> 
>   $hash->{1.2.3} = "Hello World";
>   $hash->{1.2.3.4.5} = "the quick brown fox";
> 
> but, failing that,
> 
> use strict;
> my $hash = {};
> my $str = ".1.2.3\tHello World";
> my ($nums,$text) = split /\t/,$str;
> my @indexes = split /\./, $nums;
> shift @indexes; # Get rid of the first ""
> my $cur = $hash;
> while(@indexes) {
>   my $index = shift @indexes;
>   if(!@indexes) { # this is the last one
>     $cur->{$index} = $text;
>   } else {
>     # We might need to vivify
>     $cur->{$index} = {} unless defined $cur->{$index};
>     $cur = $cur->{$index};
>   }
> }
> use Data::Dumper;
> print "Result: " . Dumper($hash) . "\n";
> 
> might help. Simplification, anyone? I suppose you could use evil, er,
> eval.
> 
> --Brock
> 
> On 2006.06.07.14.31, Metz, Bobby W, WWCS wrote:
> | All,
> | 	I'm looking for a quicker method of accessing elements in a
> multi-level hash.  For example, the hash will have values like so
> | 
> | $hash{1}{2}{3} = "Hello World";
> | $hash{1}{3}{4}{5} = "the quick brown fox";
> | 
> | The input to the program comes from another I can't control which will
> ouput values like so:
> | 
> | .1.2.3<tab>Hello World
> | .1.3.4.5<tab>the quick brown fox
> | 
> | Parsing the values is cake, but what I'm looking for is a faster way
> to get values in/out of the hash using the ".1.2.3".  Is there some
> method that allows for arbitrary hash levels without coding using for
> loops?  I mean clearly recursion would solve this but I was hoping there
> was something more simple.  Or is recursion the only answer.  I was
> hoping for something like this, but I know this example doesn't work.
> I've searched for a bit but I must be asking the right questions of
> mighty google.
> | 
> | $index = ".1.2.3";
> | $index =~ s/^\.//g;
> | $index =~ s/\./}{/g;
> | print $hash{$index} . "\n";
> | 
> | Thoughts?
> | 
> | Thanks,
> | 
> | Bobby
> | _______________________________________________
> | Phoenix-pm mailing list
> | Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From bwmetz at att.com  Thu Jun  8 21:27:38 2006
From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WWCS)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 23:27:38 -0500
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?
In-Reply-To: <20060607231116.GP1068@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701E95912@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>

well, couldn't get the 

$hash{(qw/foo bar baz quux/)} = 20;

to work when trying to use say qq/$index/ for variable interp.  So I
finally did the evil approach as Brock put it.  Should have just done
this first without futzing with all the other weird and wacky ways I
tried that I'm too ashamed to post.

So, short of flattening the hash which I'll likely due for memory
reasons, here's the eval I came up with.  Note: Users may enter values
like .1.2.3.4 or 1.2.3.4 for searching, just in case you disagree with
my sub.

$val{1}{2}{3}{4} = "Hello World";
$index = ".1.2.3.4";

$index =~ s/^\.+//;						#
Watching for typos
$index =~ s/\.+$//;						# Ditto
$index =~ s/\.+/}{/g;
$value = '$val{' . $index . '}';
print $value . " = " . eval("$value") . "\n";

But, as it turned out my concern over hash memory was valid.  A test
file with 46324 records resulted in the following crude measurements:

Single hash index & value
	Avg time to load hash = 3s
	Memory usage = 23M

Multi-dimension hash index & value
	Avg time to load hash = 15s
	Memory usage = 103M

Even using the "keys %hash = xxxxx" to pre-malloc didn't seem to save
any time, but did increase the memory usage since Perl rounds up to a
power of 2.

Guess I'll be sticking with the flat index.  I was going to test random
hash value lookup times but the poor load/mem performance of the
multi-index approach doesn't make it worthwhile.

Brock/Scott,
	Thanks to all for the input.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Walters [mailto:scott at illogics.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 4:11 PM
To: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Multi-level hash - quick key reference?


Hey Bobby,

I can try to track this down if you like, but xmath has a patch to Perl
that modifies
the grammar to recogize ` as something like . in JavaScript, so you can
write 
$hash`foo`bar`baz to mean $hash{foo}{bar}{baz}.  Matching braces are
tedious to type.

Data::Alias is nice for making little shortcuts, too:

use Data::Alias;
alias my $bucket = $hash{foo}{bar}{baz}{quux};
$bucket = 20;
print $hash{foo}{bar}{baz}{quux}, "\n"; # 20

If you are designing the datastructure from the beginning, there's the
old Perl 4
multidim syntax:

$hash{'foo', 'bar', 'baz', 'quux'} = 20;
$hash{(qw/foo bar baz quux/)} = 20;

That's not the same thing as writing $hash{foo}{bar}{baz}{quux} but if
the
keys don't contain binary data and you don't need to list the keys at a
given depth, it's about as useful.

You could also write an lvalue 'dehash' method using Data::Alias:

use Data::Alias;

sub dehash (\%;@) :lvalue {
    my $ref = $_[0];
    for my $i (1..$#_) {
        $ref ||= { }; #manualvivicate
        alias $ref = $ref->{$i};
    }
    $ref;
}

my %hash;
dehash(%hash, qw/foo bar baz/) = 10;
print dehash(%hash, qw/foo bar baz/), "\n";

lvalue assignments to a scalar that's aliased and Perl doesn't dump
core.  W00t!

-scott

On  0, "Metz, Bobby W, WWCS" <bwmetz at att.com> wrote:
> All,
> 	I'm looking for a quicker method of accessing elements in a
multi-level hash.  For example, the hash will have values like so
> 
> $hash{1}{2}{3} = "Hello World";
> $hash{1}{3}{4}{5} = "the quick brown fox";
> 
> The input to the program comes from another I can't control which will
ouput values like so:
> 
> .1.2.3<tab>Hello World
> .1.3.4.5<tab>the quick brown fox
> 
> Parsing the values is cake, but what I'm looking for is a faster way
to get values in/out of the hash using the ".1.2.3".  Is there some
method that allows for arbitrary hash levels without coding using for
loops?  I mean clearly recursion would solve this but I was hoping there
was something more simple.  Or is recursion the only answer.  I was
hoping for something like this, but I know this example doesn't work.
I've searched for a bit but I must be asking the right questions of
mighty google.
> 
> $index = ".1.2.3";
> $index =~ s/^\.//g;
> $index =~ s/\./}{/g;
> print $hash{$index} . "\n";
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bobby
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From bwmetz at att.com  Fri Jun  9 17:38:24 2006
From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WWCS)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 19:38:24 -0500
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance
Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701EC312C@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>

	This is kind of a follow-up question to my multi-level hash
post.  Everything I've been reading on-line about how hashes work leads
me to conclusions that don't seem to pan out in reality, e.g.
pre-defining the # of hash buckets to increase performance on large data
sets.  At least, I thought +40K records would be considered large...no
jokes please.
	So, here's what I've observed using two methods to load +40K
records into a single level hash.  I have always used method #1 as I
learned it that way years ago but would love some thoughts around
whether method #2 might be superior somehow as I know a lot of folks
that do it that way instead.

Method 1
+ Dynamically build hash from data file at run time.
+ Program load is consistently 3 seconds faster than Method 2.
+ Used 13M of memory to hold the records.

Method 2
+ Used pre-built hashes loaded via "require".
+ Program load is consistently 3 seconds slower than Method 1.
+ Used 36M of memory to hold the records.

	Any of you know the inner workings of hashes enough to explain
the difference?  I think the memory increase might have something to do
with "require" mucking with the usual shared hash table used by perl,
possibly forcing two copies.  But, that's just an uneducated guess.
There was no discernable difference in output performance using a small
test set against the +40K records, only the initial program load and
total memory consumption.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Bobby

From scott at illogics.org  Fri Jun  9 18:22:16 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 01:22:16 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance
In-Reply-To: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701EC312C@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701EC312C@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
Message-ID: <20060610012216.GY1054@illogics.org>

Hi Bobby,

Pre-allocating only speeds up insertion of items into the top level hash.
If you have a hash %foo that you're putting things into subhashes of
with $foo{whatever}{whatever}, then preallocating into %foo won't
help you.  In fact, it'll waste RAM and CPU.  I didn't catch 
whether you were doing single level or multi level so I'm not sure if this 
applies.

-scott

On  0, "Metz, Bobby W, WWCS" <bwmetz at att.com> wrote:
> 	This is kind of a follow-up question to my multi-level hash
> post.  Everything I've been reading on-line about how hashes work leads
> me to conclusions that don't seem to pan out in reality, e.g.
> pre-defining the # of hash buckets to increase performance on large data
> sets.  At least, I thought +40K records would be considered large...no
> jokes please.
> 	So, here's what I've observed using two methods to load +40K
> records into a single level hash.  I have always used method #1 as I
> learned it that way years ago but would love some thoughts around
> whether method #2 might be superior somehow as I know a lot of folks
> that do it that way instead.
> 
> Method 1
> + Dynamically build hash from data file at run time.
> + Program load is consistently 3 seconds faster than Method 2.
> + Used 13M of memory to hold the records.
> 
> Method 2
> + Used pre-built hashes loaded via "require".
> + Program load is consistently 3 seconds slower than Method 1.
> + Used 36M of memory to hold the records.
> 
> 	Any of you know the inner workings of hashes enough to explain
> the difference?  I think the memory increase might have something to do
> with "require" mucking with the usual shared hash table used by perl,
> possibly forcing two copies.  But, that's just an uneducated guess.
> There was no discernable difference in output performance using a small
> test set against the +40K records, only the initial program load and
> total memory consumption.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bobby
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu  Fri Jun  9 20:11:15 2006
From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 20:11:15 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance
In-Reply-To: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701EC312C@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701EC312C@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
Message-ID: <95F9596E-BACD-4ACE-9C07-C909524A0E6D@highwire.stanford.edu>

Wait -- for #2 it sounds like you build the hashes and then write  
them out to a file (in some other script, I assume), followed by this  
script using 'require' to load the previously written files. Is that  
right?

I would bet, then, that the extra memory and slowness comes from  
accessing the filesystem. Once you require a file, perl basically eval 
()s it into the current context -- doing just about exactly what you  
do when you build the hash in the first place. :-) Scott could  
probably explain the details, I'm just going on a guess.

Personally, I think you did the right thing by benchmarking it. Now  
you know for sure which way is better and you can just rebuild it  
when you use it.

If you want to save the hashes in a file, you might want to check out  
the GDBM, MLDBM, or TDB (a new really fast one) database modules.  
(GDBM_File, MLDBM + Tie::MLDBM, TDB_File) They all tie to a hash and  
let you manage the persistent storage without any effort whatsoever.

-- Mike

On Jun 9, 2006, at 5:38 PM, Metz, Bobby W, WWCS wrote:

> 	This is kind of a follow-up question to my multi-level hash
> post.  Everything I've been reading on-line about how hashes work  
> leads
> me to conclusions that don't seem to pan out in reality, e.g.
> pre-defining the # of hash buckets to increase performance on large  
> data
> sets.  At least, I thought +40K records would be considered large...no
> jokes please.
> 	So, here's what I've observed using two methods to load +40K
> records into a single level hash.  I have always used method #1 as I
> learned it that way years ago but would love some thoughts around
> whether method #2 might be superior somehow as I know a lot of folks
> that do it that way instead.
>
> Method 1
> + Dynamically build hash from data file at run time.
> + Program load is consistently 3 seconds faster than Method 2.
> + Used 13M of memory to hold the records.
>
> Method 2
> + Used pre-built hashes loaded via "require".
> + Program load is consistently 3 seconds slower than Method 1.
> + Used 36M of memory to hold the records.
>
> 	Any of you know the inner workings of hashes enough to explain
> the difference?  I think the memory increase might have something  
> to do
> with "require" mucking with the usual shared hash table used by perl,
> possibly forcing two copies.  But, that's just an uneducated guess.
> There was no discernable difference in output performance using a  
> small
> test set against the +40K records, only the initial program load and
> total memory consumption.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bobby
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------



From bwmetz at att.com  Mon Jun 12 09:19:10 2006
From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WWCS)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:19:10 -0500
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance
In-Reply-To: <95F9596E-BACD-4ACE-9C07-C909524A0E6D@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701EC36BB@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>

Scott, 
	yes, single level hash only.

Michael,
	correct...#2 uses require to open a file generated by another
script which basically looks like:

$hash{'key'} = 'value';

I had considered disk I/O but disregarded since the #1 method reads the
source file from disk to populate the hash, that is the same source file
the secondary script reads to generate the files read via require in
method #2.  I guess there is the difference of a few characters per line
in the hash notation, but I wouldn't have thought that would nearly
triple the memory usage to store the hash.

Thanks,

Bobby



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Friedman [mailto:friedman at highwire.stanford.edu]
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:11 PM
To: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance


Wait -- for #2 it sounds like you build the hashes and then write  
them out to a file (in some other script, I assume), followed by this  
script using 'require' to load the previously written files. Is that  
right?

I would bet, then, that the extra memory and slowness comes from  
accessing the filesystem. Once you require a file, perl basically eval 
()s it into the current context -- doing just about exactly what you  
do when you build the hash in the first place. :-) Scott could  
probably explain the details, I'm just going on a guess.

Personally, I think you did the right thing by benchmarking it. Now  
you know for sure which way is better and you can just rebuild it  
when you use it.

If you want to save the hashes in a file, you might want to check out  
the GDBM, MLDBM, or TDB (a new really fast one) database modules.  
(GDBM_File, MLDBM + Tie::MLDBM, TDB_File) They all tie to a hash and  
let you manage the persistent storage without any effort whatsoever.

-- Mike

On Jun 9, 2006, at 5:38 PM, Metz, Bobby W, WWCS wrote:

> 	This is kind of a follow-up question to my multi-level hash
> post.  Everything I've been reading on-line about how hashes work  
> leads
> me to conclusions that don't seem to pan out in reality, e.g.
> pre-defining the # of hash buckets to increase performance on large  
> data
> sets.  At least, I thought +40K records would be considered large...no
> jokes please.
> 	So, here's what I've observed using two methods to load +40K
> records into a single level hash.  I have always used method #1 as I
> learned it that way years ago but would love some thoughts around
> whether method #2 might be superior somehow as I know a lot of folks
> that do it that way instead.
>
> Method 1
> + Dynamically build hash from data file at run time.
> + Program load is consistently 3 seconds faster than Method 2.
> + Used 13M of memory to hold the records.
>
> Method 2
> + Used pre-built hashes loaded via "require".
> + Program load is consistently 3 seconds slower than Method 1.
> + Used 36M of memory to hold the records.
>
> 	Any of you know the inner workings of hashes enough to explain
> the difference?  I think the memory increase might have something  
> to do
> with "require" mucking with the usual shared hash table used by perl,
> possibly forcing two copies.  But, that's just an uneducated guess.
> There was no discernable difference in output performance using a  
> small
> test set against the +40K records, only the initial program load and
> total memory consumption.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bobby
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------



From bwmetz at att.com  Mon Jun 12 09:19:10 2006
From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WWCS)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:19:10 -0500
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance
In-Reply-To: <95F9596E-BACD-4ACE-9C07-C909524A0E6D@highwire.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701EC36BB@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>

Scott, 
	yes, single level hash only.

Michael,
	correct...#2 uses require to open a file generated by another
script which basically looks like:

$hash{'key'} = 'value';

I had considered disk I/O but disregarded since the #1 method reads the
source file from disk to populate the hash, that is the same source file
the secondary script reads to generate the files read via require in
method #2.  I guess there is the difference of a few characters per line
in the hash notation, but I wouldn't have thought that would nearly
triple the memory usage to store the hash.

Thanks,

Bobby



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Friedman [mailto:friedman at highwire.stanford.edu]
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:11 PM
To: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance


Wait -- for #2 it sounds like you build the hashes and then write  
them out to a file (in some other script, I assume), followed by this  
script using 'require' to load the previously written files. Is that  
right?

I would bet, then, that the extra memory and slowness comes from  
accessing the filesystem. Once you require a file, perl basically eval 
()s it into the current context -- doing just about exactly what you  
do when you build the hash in the first place. :-) Scott could  
probably explain the details, I'm just going on a guess.

Personally, I think you did the right thing by benchmarking it. Now  
you know for sure which way is better and you can just rebuild it  
when you use it.

If you want to save the hashes in a file, you might want to check out  
the GDBM, MLDBM, or TDB (a new really fast one) database modules.  
(GDBM_File, MLDBM + Tie::MLDBM, TDB_File) They all tie to a hash and  
let you manage the persistent storage without any effort whatsoever.

-- Mike

On Jun 9, 2006, at 5:38 PM, Metz, Bobby W, WWCS wrote:

> 	This is kind of a follow-up question to my multi-level hash
> post.  Everything I've been reading on-line about how hashes work  
> leads
> me to conclusions that don't seem to pan out in reality, e.g.
> pre-defining the # of hash buckets to increase performance on large  
> data
> sets.  At least, I thought +40K records would be considered large...no
> jokes please.
> 	So, here's what I've observed using two methods to load +40K
> records into a single level hash.  I have always used method #1 as I
> learned it that way years ago but would love some thoughts around
> whether method #2 might be superior somehow as I know a lot of folks
> that do it that way instead.
>
> Method 1
> + Dynamically build hash from data file at run time.
> + Program load is consistently 3 seconds faster than Method 2.
> + Used 13M of memory to hold the records.
>
> Method 2
> + Used pre-built hashes loaded via "require".
> + Program load is consistently 3 seconds slower than Method 1.
> + Used 36M of memory to hold the records.
>
> 	Any of you know the inner workings of hashes enough to explain
> the difference?  I think the memory increase might have something  
> to do
> with "require" mucking with the usual shared hash table used by perl,
> possibly forcing two copies.  But, that's just an uneducated guess.
> There was no discernable difference in output performance using a  
> small
> test set against the +40K records, only the initial program load and
> total memory consumption.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bobby
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------



From scott at illogics.org  Mon Jun 12 09:39:13 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:39:13 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance
In-Reply-To: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701EC36BB@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
References: <95F9596E-BACD-4ACE-9C07-C909524A0E6D@highwire.stanford.edu>
	<01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701EC36BB@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>
Message-ID: <20060612163913.GF1054@illogics.org>

Yeah.  I've got to go with Michael on this one.  You omitted an important deal
that Michael picked up on... that you're sharing data by way of Perl's parser
rather than any sort of database format.  Use a binary format, not text, and
certainly not Perl source code as a text format.  Parsing code is a thousand
times slower than navigating a binary format.  Use a dbm if nothing else.
Michael suggested one in particular.

-scott

On  0, "Metz, Bobby W, WWCS" <bwmetz at att.com> wrote:
> Scott, 
> 	yes, single level hash only.
> 
> Michael,
> 	correct...#2 uses require to open a file generated by another
> script which basically looks like:
> 
> $hash{'key'} = 'value';
> 
> I had considered disk I/O but disregarded since the #1 method reads the
> source file from disk to populate the hash, that is the same source file
> the secondary script reads to generate the files read via require in
> method #2.  I guess there is the difference of a few characters per line
> in the hash notation, but I wouldn't have thought that would nearly
> triple the memory usage to store the hash.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bobby
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Friedman [mailto:friedman at highwire.stanford.edu]
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:11 PM
> To: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS
> Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
> Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance
> 
> 
> Wait -- for #2 it sounds like you build the hashes and then write  
> them out to a file (in some other script, I assume), followed by this  
> script using 'require' to load the previously written files. Is that  
> right?
> 
> I would bet, then, that the extra memory and slowness comes from  
> accessing the filesystem. Once you require a file, perl basically eval 
> ()s it into the current context -- doing just about exactly what you  
> do when you build the hash in the first place. :-) Scott could  
> probably explain the details, I'm just going on a guess.
> 
> Personally, I think you did the right thing by benchmarking it. Now  
> you know for sure which way is better and you can just rebuild it  
> when you use it.
> 
> If you want to save the hashes in a file, you might want to check out  
> the GDBM, MLDBM, or TDB (a new really fast one) database modules.  
> (GDBM_File, MLDBM + Tie::MLDBM, TDB_File) They all tie to a hash and  
> let you manage the persistent storage without any effort whatsoever.
> 
> -- Mike
> 
> On Jun 9, 2006, at 5:38 PM, Metz, Bobby W, WWCS wrote:
> 
> > 	This is kind of a follow-up question to my multi-level hash
> > post.  Everything I've been reading on-line about how hashes work  
> > leads
> > me to conclusions that don't seem to pan out in reality, e.g.
> > pre-defining the # of hash buckets to increase performance on large  
> > data
> > sets.  At least, I thought +40K records would be considered large...no
> > jokes please.
> > 	So, here's what I've observed using two methods to load +40K
> > records into a single level hash.  I have always used method #1 as I
> > learned it that way years ago but would love some thoughts around
> > whether method #2 might be superior somehow as I know a lot of folks
> > that do it that way instead.
> >
> > Method 1
> > + Dynamically build hash from data file at run time.
> > + Program load is consistently 3 seconds faster than Method 2.
> > + Used 13M of memory to hold the records.
> >
> > Method 2
> > + Used pre-built hashes loaded via "require".
> > + Program load is consistently 3 seconds slower than Method 1.
> > + Used 36M of memory to hold the records.
> >
> > 	Any of you know the inner workings of hashes enough to explain
> > the difference?  I think the memory increase might have something  
> > to do
> > with "require" mucking with the usual shared hash table used by perl,
> > possibly forcing two copies.  But, that's just an uneducated guess.
> > There was no discernable difference in output performance using a  
> > small
> > test set against the +40K records, only the initial program load and
> > total memory consumption.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bobby
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
> Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
> FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From bwmetz at att.com  Mon Jun 12 11:22:43 2006
From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WWCS)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:22:43 -0500
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance
In-Reply-To: <20060612163913.GF1054@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B345769047336701EC3896@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com>

Just finished my dbm test.  Not sure but seems to afford minor decrease
in load time.  I'll have to use Benchmark to be sure.  Anyway, the
memory usage has been cut by 1/3 which is perfect.

Thanks guys, should have just sucked it up and tried that too before
posting.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Walters [mailto:scott at illogics.org]
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 9:39 AM
To: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS
Cc: Michael Friedman; phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance


Yeah.  I've got to go with Michael on this one.  You omitted an
important deal
that Michael picked up on... that you're sharing data by way of Perl's
parser
rather than any sort of database format.  Use a binary format, not text,
and
certainly not Perl source code as a text format.  Parsing code is a
thousand
times slower than navigating a binary format.  Use a dbm if nothing
else.
Michael suggested one in particular.

-scott

On  0, "Metz, Bobby W, WWCS" <bwmetz at att.com> wrote:
> Scott, 
> 	yes, single level hash only.
> 
> Michael,
> 	correct...#2 uses require to open a file generated by another
> script which basically looks like:
> 
> $hash{'key'} = 'value';
> 
> I had considered disk I/O but disregarded since the #1 method reads
the
> source file from disk to populate the hash, that is the same source
file
> the secondary script reads to generate the files read via require in
> method #2.  I guess there is the difference of a few characters per
line
> in the hash notation, but I wouldn't have thought that would nearly
> triple the memory usage to store the hash.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bobby
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Friedman [mailto:friedman at highwire.stanford.edu]
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:11 PM
> To: Metz, Bobby W, WWCS
> Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
> Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Hash performance
> 
> 
> Wait -- for #2 it sounds like you build the hashes and then write  
> them out to a file (in some other script, I assume), followed by this

> script using 'require' to load the previously written files. Is that  
> right?
> 
> I would bet, then, that the extra memory and slowness comes from  
> accessing the filesystem. Once you require a file, perl basically eval

> ()s it into the current context -- doing just about exactly what you  
> do when you build the hash in the first place. :-) Scott could  
> probably explain the details, I'm just going on a guess.
> 
> Personally, I think you did the right thing by benchmarking it. Now  
> you know for sure which way is better and you can just rebuild it  
> when you use it.
> 
> If you want to save the hashes in a file, you might want to check out

> the GDBM, MLDBM, or TDB (a new really fast one) database modules.  
> (GDBM_File, MLDBM + Tie::MLDBM, TDB_File) They all tie to a hash and  
> let you manage the persistent storage without any effort whatsoever.
> 
> -- Mike
> 
> On Jun 9, 2006, at 5:38 PM, Metz, Bobby W, WWCS wrote:
> 
> > 	This is kind of a follow-up question to my multi-level hash
> > post.  Everything I've been reading on-line about how hashes work  
> > leads
> > me to conclusions that don't seem to pan out in reality, e.g.
> > pre-defining the # of hash buckets to increase performance on large

> > data
> > sets.  At least, I thought +40K records would be considered
large...no
> > jokes please.
> > 	So, here's what I've observed using two methods to load +40K
> > records into a single level hash.  I have always used method #1 as I
> > learned it that way years ago but would love some thoughts around
> > whether method #2 might be superior somehow as I know a lot of folks
> > that do it that way instead.
> >
> > Method 1
> > + Dynamically build hash from data file at run time.
> > + Program load is consistently 3 seconds faster than Method 2.
> > + Used 13M of memory to hold the records.
> >
> > Method 2
> > + Used pre-built hashes loaded via "require".
> > + Program load is consistently 3 seconds slower than Method 1.
> > + Used 36M of memory to hold the records.
> >
> > 	Any of you know the inner workings of hashes enough to explain
> > the difference?  I think the memory increase might have something  
> > to do
> > with "require" mucking with the usual shared hash table used by
perl,
> > possibly forcing two copies.  But, that's just an uneducated guess.
> > There was no discernable difference in output performance using a  
> > small
> > test set against the +40K records, only the initial program load and
> > total memory consumption.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bobby
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Friedman                     HighWire Press
> Phone: 650-725-1974                  Stanford University
> FAX:   270-721-8034                  <friedman at highwire.stanford.edu>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org  Mon Jun 12 22:56:51 2006
From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:56:51 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
Message-ID: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>

Greetings All,

I'd like to have a meeting on Thursday, June 22, 2006 @7:00pm. Who can't
come?  Who doesn't want to present :) ? There are 72 people on this mailing 
list, and I wouldn't mind hearing some feedback from a few of you!

As for a topic - Scott and I have been working on a powerful web
application tool, called Continuity, which we would like to present in
preperation for wider announcement. Even better is if we can get some of
you to try it.  As I try to do at all presentations there will be live,
audience-directed coding.

And of course we are happy to cover anything you can think of including
but not limited to the things at

  http://phoenix.pm.org/wiki/wiki.cgi?PerlMongersIdeas

requests and volunteers for a beginner-level topic are especially
appreciated. If you can't make this date/time for some reason, but could
if we shifted it a bit, let us know so we can maybe adjust.

The location will most likely be in the scottsdale area. The suggestion
on the table is upstairs at Scottsdale Four Peaks brewery. I'd like to
have a good sized meeting, so bring a friend! I'm working on some door
prizes too.

Official announcement to follow, based on feedback!

--Brock


From scott at illogics.org  Tue Jun 13 10:10:56 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:10:56 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
Message-ID: <20060613171056.GE1054@illogics.org>

> you to try it.  As I try to do at all presentations there will be live,
> audience-directed coding.

Hey, neat!

>   http://phoenix.pm.org/wiki/wiki.cgi?PerlMongersIdeas

Naw, screw 'em.  The people who can't make one date tend not to be
able to make othr dates as well, even ones they suggest.  Seriously
though, we can do some non-Thursdays if there are people who want to
kabitz but can't do Thursdays.

> The location will most likely be in the scottsdale area. The suggestion
> on the table is upstairs at Scottsdale Four Peaks brewery. I'd like to

Four Peaks Scottsdale is right off of the 101 and Frank Lloyd Wright 
in the mega-strip-mall on the south west corner.  They have an partial 
upstairs you can check out and it's a lot less noisey than Tempe Four 
Peaks.  The food is quite good.  Bring your laptop.

-scott

From dwchandler at stilyagin.com  Tue Jun 13 10:09:27 2006
From: dwchandler at stilyagin.com (Darrin Chandler)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:09:27 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <20060613171056.GE1054@illogics.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<20060613171056.GE1054@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <20060613170927.GA29879@jeeves.stilyagin.local>

On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:10:56PM +0000, Scott Walters wrote:
> 
> Naw, screw 'em.  The people who can't make one date tend not to be
> able to make othr dates as well, even ones they suggest.  Seriously
> though, we can do some non-Thursdays if there are people who want to
> kabitz but can't do Thursdays.

The impromptu, informal Beer & BSD gathering went pretty well and had
fair attendance. Short notice, different night, no presentation, and
still people showed up.

People will attend as they can, and there's no time where everyone can
make it. Just set a reasonable time and day of week and hope for the
best.

-- 
Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
http://www.stilyagin.com/  |

From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org  Thu Jun 15 15:33:48 2006
From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:33:48 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <20060613170927.GA29879@jeeves.stilyagin.local>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<20060613171056.GE1054@illogics.org>
	<20060613170927.GA29879@jeeves.stilyagin.local>
Message-ID: <20060615223348.GH10939@thelackthereof.org>

Will you be attending?

Looking at the calendar, the 22nd is possibly the day of the game 7 NBA
finals. Think that'll mess it up? If not I'll announce it widely
(PLUG-dev, BSD, ruby/refreshphoenix, AzPHP, etc).

--Brock

On 2006.06.13.10.09, Darrin Chandler wrote:
| On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:10:56PM +0000, Scott Walters wrote:
| > 
| > Naw, screw 'em.  The people who can't make one date tend not to be
| > able to make othr dates as well, even ones they suggest.  Seriously
| > though, we can do some non-Thursdays if there are people who want to
| > kabitz but can't do Thursdays.
| 
| The impromptu, informal Beer & BSD gathering went pretty well and had
| fair attendance. Short notice, different night, no presentation, and
| still people showed up.
| 
| People will attend as they can, and there's no time where everyone can
| make it. Just set a reasonable time and day of week and hope for the
| best.
| 
| -- 
| Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
| dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
| http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
| _______________________________________________
| Phoenix-pm mailing list
| Phoenix-pm at pm.org
| http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From nathan.oyler at sap.com  Thu Jun 15 15:44:09 2006
From: nathan.oyler at sap.com (Oyler, Nathan)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:44:09 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <20060615223348.GH10939@thelackthereof.org>
Message-ID: <F2A7A7622D19D741A855C0D50A2328310187B932@uspale20.pal.sap.corp>

I would love to attend more, and would have been at every one except.

They are 2 1/2 hours after I get off work. So I run home from Scottsdale
to Tempe. Take care of the baby, get relaxed, and I don't particularly
feel like running back up to North Scottsdale.

I'm sure we all have little things like that. If it was a Friday night
or in Tempe I'd care much less. (One was closer by, but I had a work
engagement..)

I'm sure most of us are like that. If you want to get together tonight
around Tempe I'll be there. I leave for yapc on the 24th so the 22nd
will be a bad time to ask the wife if she'll take the baby all day while
I'm at work, right before I'm gone for a week. (then weeks after for
work...)

Don't mean to spill on about my personal life, but just wanted to bring
up that I'm sure we'd all like to go every meeting, I personally enjoy
them quite a bit, but with work, and a family it's hard to schedule in
every one.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org
[mailto:phoenix-pm-
> bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Brock
> Sent: Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 15:34 PM
> To: Darrin Chandler
> Cc: Phoenix.pm
> Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
> 
> Will you be attending?
> 
> Looking at the calendar, the 22nd is possibly the day of the game 7
NBA
> finals. Think that'll mess it up? If not I'll announce it widely
> (PLUG-dev, BSD, ruby/refreshphoenix, AzPHP, etc).
> 
> --Brock
> 
> On 2006.06.13.10.09, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> | On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:10:56PM +0000, Scott Walters wrote:
> | >
> | > Naw, screw 'em.  The people who can't make one date tend not to be
> | > able to make othr dates as well, even ones they suggest.
Seriously
> | > though, we can do some non-Thursdays if there are people who want
to
> | > kabitz but can't do Thursdays.
> |
> | The impromptu, informal Beer & BSD gathering went pretty well and
had
> | fair attendance. Short notice, different night, no presentation, and
> | still people showed up.
> |
> | People will attend as they can, and there's no time where everyone
can
> | make it. Just set a reasonable time and day of week and hope for the
> | best.
> |
> | --
> | Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
> | dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> | http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
> | _______________________________________________
> | Phoenix-pm mailing list
> | Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From dwchandler at stilyagin.com  Thu Jun 15 17:27:39 2006
From: dwchandler at stilyagin.com (Darrin Chandler)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:27:39 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <F2A7A7622D19D741A855C0D50A2328310187B932@uspale20.pal.sap.corp>
References: <20060615223348.GH10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<F2A7A7622D19D741A855C0D50A2328310187B932@uspale20.pal.sap.corp>
Message-ID: <20060616002739.GA27889@jeeves.stilyagin.local>

On Thu, Jun 15, 2006 at 03:44:09PM -0700, Oyler, Nathan wrote:
> I would love to attend more, and would have been at every one except.
> 
> They are 2 1/2 hours after I get off work. So I run home from Scottsdale
> to Tempe. Take care of the baby, get relaxed, and I don't particularly
> feel like running back up to North Scottsdale.
> 
> I'm sure we all have little things like that. If it was a Friday night
> or in Tempe I'd care much less. (One was closer by, but I had a work
> engagement..)

Yes, everyone *does* have little things like that. Some more than
others. Having a small child I am right there with you.

The time thing is problematic. A 7:00pm or 7:30pm meeting gives me time
to get home, get a few things squared away, and see my family for a
short while before I leave again. If it were much earlier I'd miss
seeing my family, at least to say "hi." Much later and I turn into a
pumpkin (the little one often wakes as early as 5am).

And this is the story for most everyone, differing only in details...

-- 
Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
http://www.stilyagin.com/  |

From scott at illogics.org  Fri Jun 16 16:11:47 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:11:47 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] YAPC/ was Re:  Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <F2A7A7622D19D741A855C0D50A2328310187B932@uspale20.pal.sap.corp>
References: <20060615223348.GH10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<F2A7A7622D19D741A855C0D50A2328310187B932@uspale20.pal.sap.corp>
Message-ID: <20060616231147.GG15619@illogics.org>

Ahhh, so as I sent out all of these "anyone else going to YAPC?" emails,
you just kept quiet.  I see.  I've been bugging Andrew -- on his blog, 
by email, to different email addresses, from different addresses, etc, 
with no acknowledgement at all.  I didn't realize I was so universally
despised.  

I have a dorm for two and I'm one, if anyone is still thinking of getting
in on the action.

-scott

On  0, "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com> wrote:
> I would love to attend more, and would have been at every one except.
> 
> They are 2 1/2 hours after I get off work. So I run home from Scottsdale
> to Tempe. Take care of the baby, get relaxed, and I don't particularly
> feel like running back up to North Scottsdale.
> 
> I'm sure we all have little things like that. If it was a Friday night
> or in Tempe I'd care much less. (One was closer by, but I had a work
> engagement..)
> 
> I'm sure most of us are like that. If you want to get together tonight
> around Tempe I'll be there. I leave for yapc on the 24th so the 22nd
> will be a bad time to ask the wife if she'll take the baby all day while
> I'm at work, right before I'm gone for a week. (then weeks after for
> work...)
> 
> Don't mean to spill on about my personal life, but just wanted to bring
> up that I'm sure we'd all like to go every meeting, I personally enjoy
> them quite a bit, but with work, and a family it's hard to schedule in
> every one.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org
> [mailto:phoenix-pm-
> > bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Brock
> > Sent: Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 15:34 PM
> > To: Darrin Chandler
> > Cc: Phoenix.pm
> > Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
> > 
> > Will you be attending?
> > 
> > Looking at the calendar, the 22nd is possibly the day of the game 7
> NBA
> > finals. Think that'll mess it up? If not I'll announce it widely
> > (PLUG-dev, BSD, ruby/refreshphoenix, AzPHP, etc).
> > 
> > --Brock
> > 
> > On 2006.06.13.10.09, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> > | On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:10:56PM +0000, Scott Walters wrote:
> > | >
> > | > Naw, screw 'em.  The people who can't make one date tend not to be
> > | > able to make othr dates as well, even ones they suggest.
> Seriously
> > | > though, we can do some non-Thursdays if there are people who want
> to
> > | > kabitz but can't do Thursdays.
> > |
> > | The impromptu, informal Beer & BSD gathering went pretty well and
> had
> > | fair attendance. Short notice, different night, no presentation, and
> > | still people showed up.
> > |
> > | People will attend as they can, and there's no time where everyone
> can
> > | make it. Just set a reasonable time and day of week and hope for the
> > | best.
> > |
> > | --
> > | Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
> > | dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> > | http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
> > | _______________________________________________
> > | Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > | Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From nathan.oyler at sap.com  Fri Jun 16 16:04:01 2006
From: nathan.oyler at sap.com (Oyler, Nathan)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:04:01 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] YAPC/ was Re:  Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <20060616231147.GG15619@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <F2A7A7622D19D741A855C0D50A232831018E12DE@uspale20.pal.sap.corp>

I thought I responded to that, and I had sent one out earlier. I just
changed email addresses so I may have been confuzzled.

I'd have shared, but I grabbed a hotel just north of there. There might
be someone on magnet #perl who might still need to share a spot. I
thought someone brought that up last week...

And how could we not love the redhead?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Walters [mailto:scott at illogics.org]
> Sent: Friday, Jun 16, 2006 16:12 PM
> To: Oyler, Nathan
> Cc: Brock; Darrin Chandler; Phoenix.pm
> Subject: YAPC/ was Re: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
> 
> Ahhh, so as I sent out all of these "anyone else going to YAPC?"
emails,
> you just kept quiet.  I see.  I've been bugging Andrew -- on his blog,
> by email, to different email addresses, from different addresses, etc,
> with no acknowledgement at all.  I didn't realize I was so universally
> despised.
> 
> I have a dorm for two and I'm one, if anyone is still thinking of
getting
> in on the action.
> 
> -scott
> 
> On  0, "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com> wrote:
> > I would love to attend more, and would have been at every one
except.
> >
> > They are 2 1/2 hours after I get off work. So I run home from
Scottsdale
> > to Tempe. Take care of the baby, get relaxed, and I don't
particularly
> > feel like running back up to North Scottsdale.
> >
> > I'm sure we all have little things like that. If it was a Friday
night
> > or in Tempe I'd care much less. (One was closer by, but I had a work
> > engagement..)
> >
> > I'm sure most of us are like that. If you want to get together
tonight
> > around Tempe I'll be there. I leave for yapc on the 24th so the 22nd
> > will be a bad time to ask the wife if she'll take the baby all day
while
> > I'm at work, right before I'm gone for a week. (then weeks after for
> > work...)
> >
> > Don't mean to spill on about my personal life, but just wanted to
bring
> > up that I'm sure we'd all like to go every meeting, I personally
enjoy
> > them quite a bit, but with work, and a family it's hard to schedule
in
> > every one.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org
> > [mailto:phoenix-pm-
> > > bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Brock
> > > Sent: Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 15:34 PM
> > > To: Darrin Chandler
> > > Cc: Phoenix.pm
> > > Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
> > >
> > > Will you be attending?
> > >
> > > Looking at the calendar, the 22nd is possibly the day of the game
7
> > NBA
> > > finals. Think that'll mess it up? If not I'll announce it widely
> > > (PLUG-dev, BSD, ruby/refreshphoenix, AzPHP, etc).
> > >
> > > --Brock
> > >
> > > On 2006.06.13.10.09, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> > > | On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:10:56PM +0000, Scott Walters wrote:
> > > | >
> > > | > Naw, screw 'em.  The people who can't make one date tend not
to be
> > > | > able to make othr dates as well, even ones they suggest.
> > Seriously
> > > | > though, we can do some non-Thursdays if there are people who
want
> > to
> > > | > kabitz but can't do Thursdays.
> > > |
> > > | The impromptu, informal Beer & BSD gathering went pretty well
and
> > had
> > > | fair attendance. Short notice, different night, no presentation,
and
> > > | still people showed up.
> > > |
> > > | People will attend as they can, and there's no time where
everyone
> > can
> > > | make it. Just set a reasonable time and day of week and hope for
the
> > > | best.
> > > |
> > > | --
> > > | Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
> > > | dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> > > | http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
> > > | _______________________________________________
> > > | Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > | Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From scott at illogics.org  Fri Jun 16 16:22:40 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:22:40 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] YAPC/ was Re:  Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <F2A7A7622D19D741A855C0D50A232831018E12DE@uspale20.pal.sap.corp>
References: <20060616231147.GG15619@illogics.org>
	<F2A7A7622D19D741A855C0D50A232831018E12DE@uspale20.pal.sap.corp>
Message-ID: <20060616232240.GH15619@illogics.org>

Okay, I'll let you off the hook this time, provided you sign 
http://phoenix.pm.org/wiki/?YapcList .

I'd really like to have some cohorts there.  Traveling in a pack increases
the chances of any of us finding out about the cool parties.

-scott

On  0, "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com> wrote:
> I thought I responded to that, and I had sent one out earlier. I just
> changed email addresses so I may have been confuzzled.
> 
> I'd have shared, but I grabbed a hotel just north of there. There might
> be someone on magnet #perl who might still need to share a spot. I
> thought someone brought that up last week...
> 
> And how could we not love the redhead?
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Walters [mailto:scott at illogics.org]
> > Sent: Friday, Jun 16, 2006 16:12 PM
> > To: Oyler, Nathan
> > Cc: Brock; Darrin Chandler; Phoenix.pm
> > Subject: YAPC/ was Re: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
> > 
> > Ahhh, so as I sent out all of these "anyone else going to YAPC?"
> emails,
> > you just kept quiet.  I see.  I've been bugging Andrew -- on his blog,
> > by email, to different email addresses, from different addresses, etc,
> > with no acknowledgement at all.  I didn't realize I was so universally
> > despised.
> > 
> > I have a dorm for two and I'm one, if anyone is still thinking of
> getting
> > in on the action.
> > 
> > -scott
> > 
> > On  0, "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com> wrote:
> > > I would love to attend more, and would have been at every one
> except.
> > >
> > > They are 2 1/2 hours after I get off work. So I run home from
> Scottsdale
> > > to Tempe. Take care of the baby, get relaxed, and I don't
> particularly
> > > feel like running back up to North Scottsdale.
> > >
> > > I'm sure we all have little things like that. If it was a Friday
> night
> > > or in Tempe I'd care much less. (One was closer by, but I had a work
> > > engagement..)
> > >
> > > I'm sure most of us are like that. If you want to get together
> tonight
> > > around Tempe I'll be there. I leave for yapc on the 24th so the 22nd
> > > will be a bad time to ask the wife if she'll take the baby all day
> while
> > > I'm at work, right before I'm gone for a week. (then weeks after for
> > > work...)
> > >
> > > Don't mean to spill on about my personal life, but just wanted to
> bring
> > > up that I'm sure we'd all like to go every meeting, I personally
> enjoy
> > > them quite a bit, but with work, and a family it's hard to schedule
> in
> > > every one.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org
> > > [mailto:phoenix-pm-
> > > > bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Brock
> > > > Sent: Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 15:34 PM
> > > > To: Darrin Chandler
> > > > Cc: Phoenix.pm
> > > > Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
> > > >
> > > > Will you be attending?
> > > >
> > > > Looking at the calendar, the 22nd is possibly the day of the game
> 7
> > > NBA
> > > > finals. Think that'll mess it up? If not I'll announce it widely
> > > > (PLUG-dev, BSD, ruby/refreshphoenix, AzPHP, etc).
> > > >
> > > > --Brock
> > > >
> > > > On 2006.06.13.10.09, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> > > > | On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:10:56PM +0000, Scott Walters wrote:
> > > > | >
> > > > | > Naw, screw 'em.  The people who can't make one date tend not
> to be
> > > > | > able to make othr dates as well, even ones they suggest.
> > > Seriously
> > > > | > though, we can do some non-Thursdays if there are people who
> want
> > > to
> > > > | > kabitz but can't do Thursdays.
> > > > |
> > > > | The impromptu, informal Beer & BSD gathering went pretty well
> and
> > > had
> > > > | fair attendance. Short notice, different night, no presentation,
> and
> > > > | still people showed up.
> > > > |
> > > > | People will attend as they can, and there's no time where
> everyone
> > > can
> > > > | make it. Just set a reasonable time and day of week and hope for
> the
> > > > | best.
> > > > |
> > > > | --
> > > > | Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
> > > > | dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> > > > | http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
> > > > | _______________________________________________
> > > > | Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > > | Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > > | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From andypm at exiledplanet.org  Sat Jun 17 03:47:00 2006
From: andypm at exiledplanet.org (andypm at exiledplanet.org)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 3:47:00 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] YAPC/ was Re:  Meeting Planning
Message-ID: <20060617104611.KMZM18458.fed1rmmtao10.cox.net@COM>

I sent you an e-mail reply, but it bounced.  How stupid of me to try to reply to someone by hitting the "Reply" button.

[aj]

-----Original Message-----

From:  Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org>
Subj:  [Phoenix-pm] YAPC/ was Re:  Meeting Planning
Date:  Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:00 pm
Size:  3K
To:  "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com>
cc:  "Phoenix.pm" <phoenix-pm at pm.org>

Ahhh, so as I sent out all of these "anyone else going to YAPC?" emails,
you just kept quiet.  I see.  I've been bugging Andrew -- on his blog, 
by email, to different email addresses, from different addresses, etc, 
with no acknowledgement at all.  I didn't realize I was so universally
despised.  

I have a dorm for two and I'm one, if anyone is still thinking of getting
in on the action.

-scott

On  0, "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com> wrote:
> I would love to attend more, and would have been at every one except.
> 
> They are 2 1/2 hours after I get off work. So I run home from Scottsdale
> to Tempe. Take care of the baby, get relaxed, and I don't particularly
> feel like running back up to North Scottsdale.
> 
> I'm sure we all have little things like that. If it was a Friday night
> or in Tempe I'd care much less. (One was closer by, but I had a work
> engagement..)
> 
> I'm sure most of us are like that. If you want to get together tonight
> around Tempe I'll be there. I leave for yapc on the 24th so the 22nd
> will be a bad time to ask the wife if she'll take the baby all day while
> I'm at work, right before I'm gone for a week. (then weeks after for
> work...)
> 
> Don't mean to spill on about my personal life, but just wanted to bring
> up that I'm sure we'd all like to go every meeting, I personally enjoy
> them quite a bit, but with work, and a family it's hard to schedule in
> every one.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org
> [mailto:phoenix-pm-
> > bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Brock
> > Sent: Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 15:34 PM
> > To: Darrin Chandler
> > Cc: Phoenix.pm
> > Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
> > 
> > Will you be attending?
> > 
> > Looking at the calendar, the 22nd is possibly the day of the game 7
> NBA
> > finals. Think that'll mess it up? If not I'll announce it widely
> > (PLUG-dev, BSD, ruby/refreshphoenix, AzPHP, etc).
> > 
> > --Brock
> > 
> > On 2006.06.13.10.09, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> > | On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:10:56PM +0000, Scott Walters wrote:
> > | >
> > | > Naw, screw 'em.  The people who can't make one date tend not to be
> > | > able to make othr dates as well, even ones they suggest.
> Seriously
> > | > though, we can do some non-Thursdays if there are people who want
> to
> > | > kabitz but can't do Thursdays.
> > |
> > | The impromptu, informal Beer & BSD gathering went pretty well and
> had
> > | fair attendance. Short notice, different night, no presentation, and
> > | still people showed up.
> > |
> > | People will attend as they can, and there's no time where everyone
> can
> > | make it. Just set a reasonable time and day of week and hope for the
> > | best.
> > |
> > | --
> > | Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
> > | dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> > | http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
> > | _______________________________________________
> > | Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > | Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
_______________________________________________
Phoenix-pm mailing list
Phoenix-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
)



From andypm at exiledplanet.org  Sat Jun 17 03:55:00 2006
From: andypm at exiledplanet.org (andypm at exiledplanet.org)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 3:55:00 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] YAPC/ was Re:  Meeting Planning
Message-ID: <20060617105351.GPQW12581.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@COM>

I sent you a reply, but it bounced after 4 days because "illogics.org is turned off or not running a mail daemon."  How stupid of me to reply to someone by hitting the "Reply" button.  

[aj]


-----Original Message-----

From:  Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org>
Subj:  [Phoenix-pm] YAPC/ was Re:  Meeting Planning
Date:  Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:00 pm
Size:  3K
To:  "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com>
cc:  "Phoenix.pm" <phoenix-pm at pm.org>

Ahhh, so as I sent out all of these "anyone else going to YAPC?" emails,
you just kept quiet.  I see.  I've been bugging Andrew -- on his blog, 
by email, to different email addresses, from different addresses, etc, 
with no acknowledgement at all.  I didn't realize I was so universally
despised.  

I have a dorm for two and I'm one, if anyone is still thinking of getting
in on the action.

-scott

On  0, "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com> wrote:
> I would love to attend more, and would have been at every one except.
> 
> They are 2 1/2 hours after I get off work. So I run home from Scottsdale
> to Tempe. Take care of the baby, get relaxed, and I don't particularly
> feel like running back up to North Scottsdale.
> 
> I'm sure we all have little things like that. If it was a Friday night
> or in Tempe I'd care much less. (One was closer by, but I had a work
> engagement..)
> 
> I'm sure most of us are like that. If you want to get together tonight
> around Tempe I'll be there. I leave for yapc on the 24th so the 22nd
> will be a bad time to ask the wife if she'll take the baby all day while
> I'm at work, right before I'm gone for a week. (then weeks after for
> work...)
> 
> Don't mean to spill on about my personal life, but just wanted to bring
> up that I'm sure we'd all like to go every meeting, I personally enjoy
> them quite a bit, but with work, and a family it's hard to schedule in
> every one.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org
> [mailto:phoenix-pm-
> > bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Brock
> > Sent: Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 15:34 PM
> > To: Darrin Chandler
> > Cc: Phoenix.pm
> > Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
> > 
> > Will you be attending?
> > 
> > Looking at the calendar, the 22nd is possibly the day of the game 7
> NBA
> > finals. Think that'll mess it up? If not I'll announce it widely
> > (PLUG-dev, BSD, ruby/refreshphoenix, AzPHP, etc).
> > 
> > --Brock
> > 
> > On 2006.06.13.10.09, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> > | On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:10:56PM +0000, Scott Walters wrote:
> > | >
> > | > Naw, screw 'em.  The people who can't make one date tend not to be
> > | > able to make othr dates as well, even ones they suggest.
> Seriously
> > | > though, we can do some non-Thursdays if there are people who want
> to
> > | > kabitz but can't do Thursdays.
> > |
> > | The impromptu, informal Beer & BSD gathering went pretty well and
> had
> > | fair attendance. Short notice, different night, no presentation, and
> > | still people showed up.
> > |
> > | People will attend as they can, and there's no time where everyone
> can
> > | make it. Just set a reasonable time and day of week and hope for the
> > | best.
> > |
> > | --
> > | Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
> > | dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> > | http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
> > | _______________________________________________
> > | Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > | Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
_______________________________________________
Phoenix-pm mailing list
Phoenix-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
)



From scott at illogics.org  Sat Jun 17 12:37:44 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:37:44 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] YAPC/ was Re:  Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <20060617104611.KMZM18458.fed1rmmtao10.cox.net@COM>
References: <20060617104611.KMZM18458.fed1rmmtao10.cox.net@COM>
Message-ID: <20060617193744.GK15619@illogics.org>

aj!

Well, well, well.  I hope you've learned your lesson.

Glad to hear you're not just avoiding me.  

-scott

On  0, andypm at exiledplanet.org wrote:
> I sent you an e-mail reply, but it bounced.  How stupid of me to try to reply to someone by hitting the "Reply" button.
> 
> [aj]
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From:  Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org>
> Subj:  [Phoenix-pm] YAPC/ was Re:  Meeting Planning
> Date:  Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:00 pm
> Size:  3K
> To:  "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com>
> cc:  "Phoenix.pm" <phoenix-pm at pm.org>
> 
> Ahhh, so as I sent out all of these "anyone else going to YAPC?" emails,
> you just kept quiet.  I see.  I've been bugging Andrew -- on his blog, 
> by email, to different email addresses, from different addresses, etc, 
> with no acknowledgement at all.  I didn't realize I was so universally
> despised.  
> 
> I have a dorm for two and I'm one, if anyone is still thinking of getting
> in on the action.
> 
> -scott
> 
> On  0, "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com> wrote:
> > I would love to attend more, and would have been at every one except.
> > 
> > They are 2 1/2 hours after I get off work. So I run home from Scottsdale
> > to Tempe. Take care of the baby, get relaxed, and I don't particularly
> > feel like running back up to North Scottsdale.
> > 
> > I'm sure we all have little things like that. If it was a Friday night
> > or in Tempe I'd care much less. (One was closer by, but I had a work
> > engagement..)
> > 
> > I'm sure most of us are like that. If you want to get together tonight
> > around Tempe I'll be there. I leave for yapc on the 24th so the 22nd
> > will be a bad time to ask the wife if she'll take the baby all day while
> > I'm at work, right before I'm gone for a week. (then weeks after for
> > work...)
> > 
> > Don't mean to spill on about my personal life, but just wanted to bring
> > up that I'm sure we'd all like to go every meeting, I personally enjoy
> > them quite a bit, but with work, and a family it's hard to schedule in
> > every one.
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org
> > [mailto:phoenix-pm-
> > > bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Brock
> > > Sent: Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 15:34 PM
> > > To: Darrin Chandler
> > > Cc: Phoenix.pm
> > > Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
> > > 
> > > Will you be attending?
> > > 
> > > Looking at the calendar, the 22nd is possibly the day of the game 7
> > NBA
> > > finals. Think that'll mess it up? If not I'll announce it widely
> > > (PLUG-dev, BSD, ruby/refreshphoenix, AzPHP, etc).
> > > 
> > > --Brock
> > > 
> > > On 2006.06.13.10.09, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> > > | On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:10:56PM +0000, Scott Walters wrote:
> > > | >
> > > | > Naw, screw 'em.  The people who can't make one date tend not to be
> > > | > able to make othr dates as well, even ones they suggest.
> > Seriously
> > > | > though, we can do some non-Thursdays if there are people who want
> > to
> > > | > kabitz but can't do Thursdays.
> > > |
> > > | The impromptu, informal Beer & BSD gathering went pretty well and
> > had
> > > | fair attendance. Short notice, different night, no presentation, and
> > > | still people showed up.
> > > |
> > > | People will attend as they can, and there's no time where everyone
> > can
> > > | make it. Just set a reasonable time and day of week and hope for the
> > > | best.
> > > |
> > > | --
> > > | Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
> > > | dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> > > | http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
> > > | _______________________________________________
> > > | Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > | Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> )
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From scott at illogics.org  Sat Jun 17 12:38:24 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:38:24 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] YAPC/ was Re:  Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <20060617105351.GPQW12581.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@COM>
References: <20060617105351.GPQW12581.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@COM>
Message-ID: <20060617193824.GL15619@illogics.org>

Usually you need to retry for a week to catch the thing up...

-scott

On  0, andypm at exiledplanet.org wrote:
> I sent you a reply, but it bounced after 4 days because "illogics.org is turned off or not running a mail daemon."  How stupid of me to reply to someone by hitting the "Reply" button.  
> 
> [aj]
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From:  Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org>
> Subj:  [Phoenix-pm] YAPC/ was Re:  Meeting Planning
> Date:  Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:00 pm
> Size:  3K
> To:  "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com>
> cc:  "Phoenix.pm" <phoenix-pm at pm.org>
> 
> Ahhh, so as I sent out all of these "anyone else going to YAPC?" emails,
> you just kept quiet.  I see.  I've been bugging Andrew -- on his blog, 
> by email, to different email addresses, from different addresses, etc, 
> with no acknowledgement at all.  I didn't realize I was so universally
> despised.  
> 
> I have a dorm for two and I'm one, if anyone is still thinking of getting
> in on the action.
> 
> -scott
> 
> On  0, "Oyler, Nathan" <nathan.oyler at sap.com> wrote:
> > I would love to attend more, and would have been at every one except.
> > 
> > They are 2 1/2 hours after I get off work. So I run home from Scottsdale
> > to Tempe. Take care of the baby, get relaxed, and I don't particularly
> > feel like running back up to North Scottsdale.
> > 
> > I'm sure we all have little things like that. If it was a Friday night
> > or in Tempe I'd care much less. (One was closer by, but I had a work
> > engagement..)
> > 
> > I'm sure most of us are like that. If you want to get together tonight
> > around Tempe I'll be there. I leave for yapc on the 24th so the 22nd
> > will be a bad time to ask the wife if she'll take the baby all day while
> > I'm at work, right before I'm gone for a week. (then weeks after for
> > work...)
> > 
> > Don't mean to spill on about my personal life, but just wanted to bring
> > up that I'm sure we'd all like to go every meeting, I personally enjoy
> > them quite a bit, but with work, and a family it's hard to schedule in
> > every one.
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org
> > [mailto:phoenix-pm-
> > > bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Brock
> > > Sent: Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 15:34 PM
> > > To: Darrin Chandler
> > > Cc: Phoenix.pm
> > > Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
> > > 
> > > Will you be attending?
> > > 
> > > Looking at the calendar, the 22nd is possibly the day of the game 7
> > NBA
> > > finals. Think that'll mess it up? If not I'll announce it widely
> > > (PLUG-dev, BSD, ruby/refreshphoenix, AzPHP, etc).
> > > 
> > > --Brock
> > > 
> > > On 2006.06.13.10.09, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> > > | On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:10:56PM +0000, Scott Walters wrote:
> > > | >
> > > | > Naw, screw 'em.  The people who can't make one date tend not to be
> > > | > able to make othr dates as well, even ones they suggest.
> > Seriously
> > > | > though, we can do some non-Thursdays if there are people who want
> > to
> > > | > kabitz but can't do Thursdays.
> > > |
> > > | The impromptu, informal Beer & BSD gathering went pretty well and
> > had
> > > | fair attendance. Short notice, different night, no presentation, and
> > > | still people showed up.
> > > |
> > > | People will attend as they can, and there's no time where everyone
> > can
> > > | make it. Just set a reasonable time and day of week and hope for the
> > > | best.
> > > |
> > > | --
> > > | Darrin Chandler            |  Phoenix BSD Users Group
> > > | dwchandler at stilyagin.com   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
> > > | http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
> > > | _______________________________________________
> > > | Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > | Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> )
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org  Thu Jun 22 16:48:00 2006
From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:48:00 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <E1Fq9Z4-0005p9-EE@pointless.epfarms.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<E1Fq9Z4-0005p9-EE@pointless.epfarms.org>
Message-ID: <20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>


OK! Well, just in case someone does come to the meeting Scott and I will
be there! Upstairs at Four Peaks, Scottsdale, 7:00pm tonight. Come and
we'll show you Continuity (continuation based web application library)
and a couple example applications we've created.

  http://maps.google.com/maps?q=15730+N+Pima+Rd+Suite+D5-7,+Scottsdale,+AZ

--Brock

On 2006.06.13.07.07, pyurt wrote:
| I have interest in the meeting and could come out...
| Paul
| 
| -----Original Message-----
| From: phoenix-pm-bounces+pyurt=yahoo.com at pm.org
| [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+pyurt=yahoo.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Brock
| Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:57 PM
| To: phoenix-pm at pm.org
| Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
| 
| Greetings All,
| 
| I'd like to have a meeting on Thursday, June 22, 2006 @7:00pm. Who can't
| come?  Who doesn't want to present :) ? There are 72 people on this mailing 
| list, and I wouldn't mind hearing some feedback from a few of you!
| 
| As for a topic - Scott and I have been working on a powerful web
| application tool, called Continuity, which we would like to present in
| preperation for wider announcement. Even better is if we can get some of
| you to try it.  As I try to do at all presentations there will be live,
| audience-directed coding.
| 
| And of course we are happy to cover anything you can think of including
| but not limited to the things at
| 
|   http://phoenix.pm.org/wiki/wiki.cgi?PerlMongersIdeas
| 
| requests and volunteers for a beginner-level topic are especially
| appreciated. If you can't make this date/time for some reason, but could
| if we shifted it a bit, let us know so we can maybe adjust.
| 
| The location will most likely be in the scottsdale area. The suggestion
| on the table is upstairs at Scottsdale Four Peaks brewery. I'd like to
| have a good sized meeting, so bring a friend! I'm working on some door
| prizes too.
| 
| Official announcement to follow, based on feedback!
| 
| --Brock
| 
| _______________________________________________
| Phoenix-pm mailing list
| Phoenix-pm at pm.org
| http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
| 

From scott at illogics.org  Fri Jun 23 00:33:28 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:33:28 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
In-Reply-To: <20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<E1Fq9Z4-0005p9-EE@pointless.epfarms.org>
	<20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
Message-ID: <20060623073328.GC29588@illogics.org>

Never did actually show off any apps, or move upstairs, but waxing 
poetic about Continuity was fun.  

-scott

On  0, Brock <awwaiid at thelackthereof.org> wrote:
> 
> OK! Well, just in case someone does come to the meeting Scott and I will
> be there! Upstairs at Four Peaks, Scottsdale, 7:00pm tonight. Come and
> we'll show you Continuity (continuation based web application library)
> and a couple example applications we've created.
> 
>   http://maps.google.com/maps?q=15730+N+Pima+Rd+Suite+D5-7,+Scottsdale,+AZ
> 
> --Brock
> 
> On 2006.06.13.07.07, pyurt wrote:
> | I have interest in the meeting and could come out...
> | Paul
> | 
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: phoenix-pm-bounces+pyurt=yahoo.com at pm.org
> | [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+pyurt=yahoo.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Brock
> | Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:57 PM
> | To: phoenix-pm at pm.org
> | Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Meeting Planning
> | 
> | Greetings All,
> | 
> | I'd like to have a meeting on Thursday, June 22, 2006 @7:00pm. Who can't
> | come?  Who doesn't want to present :) ? There are 72 people on this mailing 
> | list, and I wouldn't mind hearing some feedback from a few of you!
> | 
> | As for a topic - Scott and I have been working on a powerful web
> | application tool, called Continuity, which we would like to present in
> | preperation for wider announcement. Even better is if we can get some of
> | you to try it.  As I try to do at all presentations there will be live,
> | audience-directed coding.
> | 
> | And of course we are happy to cover anything you can think of including
> | but not limited to the things at
> | 
> |   http://phoenix.pm.org/wiki/wiki.cgi?PerlMongersIdeas
> | 
> | requests and volunteers for a beginner-level topic are especially
> | appreciated. If you can't make this date/time for some reason, but could
> | if we shifted it a bit, let us know so we can maybe adjust.
> | 
> | The location will most likely be in the scottsdale area. The suggestion
> | on the table is upstairs at Scottsdale Four Peaks brewery. I'd like to
> | have a good sized meeting, so bring a friend! I'm working on some door
> | prizes too.
> | 
> | Official announcement to follow, based on feedback!
> | 
> | --Brock
> | 
> | _______________________________________________
> | Phoenix-pm mailing list
> | Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
> | 
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From scott at illogics.org  Mon Jun 26 08:12:24 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:12:24 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
In-Reply-To: <20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<E1Fq9Z4-0005p9-EE@pointless.epfarms.org>
	<20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
Message-ID: <20060626151224.GW29588@illogics.org>

http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_at_yapc.gif

If people are interested I'll try to get some better pics.  $10 camera.  Sorry.
There are a hell of a lot of laptops in the audiance.

-scott

From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org  Mon Jun 26 08:08:13 2006
From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:08:13 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
In-Reply-To: <20060626151224.GW29588@illogics.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<E1Fq9Z4-0005p9-EE@pointless.epfarms.org>
	<20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<20060626151224.GW29588@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <20060626150813.GG10939@thelackthereof.org>

Also see:

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/yapcna2006/

For more YAPC::NA 2006 goodness.

--Brock

On 2006.06.26.15.12, Scott Walters wrote:
| http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_at_yapc.gif
| 
| If people are interested I'll try to get some better pics.  $10 camera.  Sorry.
| There are a hell of a lot of laptops in the audiance.
| 
| -scott

From scott at illogics.org  Mon Jun 26 08:23:47 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:23:47 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
In-Reply-To: <20060626151224.GW29588@illogics.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<E1Fq9Z4-0005p9-EE@pointless.epfarms.org>
	<20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<20060626151224.GW29588@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <20060626152346.GX29588@illogics.org>

http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_talks_people_listen.jpg

Other animated gif is still uploading.  Sorry.

-scott

On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_at_yapc.gif
> 
> If people are interested I'll try to get some better pics.  $10 camera.  Sorry.
> There are a hell of a lot of laptops in the audiance.
> 
> -scott
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From pyurt at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 26 09:25:39 2006
From: pyurt at yahoo.com (pyurt)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:25:39 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
In-Reply-To: <20060626152346.GX29588@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <mailman.12.1151339311.18725.phoenix-pm@pm.org>

Cool picture. The resolution scks. 

-----Original Message-----
From: phoenix-pm-bounces+pyurt=yahoo.com at pm.org
[mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+pyurt=yahoo.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of Scott
Walters
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 8:24 AM
To: Brock
Cc: phoenix-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!

http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_talks_people_listen.jpg

Other animated gif is still uploading.  Sorry.

-scott

On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_at_yapc.gif
> 
> If people are interested I'll try to get some better pics.  $10 camera.
Sorry.
> There are a hell of a lot of laptops in the audiance.
> 
> -scott
> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm
_______________________________________________
Phoenix-pm mailing list
Phoenix-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm


From scott at illogics.org  Wed Jun 28 01:17:25 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:17:25 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
In-Reply-To: <20060626152346.GX29588@illogics.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<E1Fq9Z4-0005p9-EE@pointless.epfarms.org>
	<20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<20060626151224.GW29588@illogics.org>
	<20060626152346.GX29588@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <20060628081725.GN7832@illogics.org>

Hi Phoenix.PM,

Wow.  Okay, I knew Randal threw a big party every year.  I didn't know everyone was invited.
I'm just back from that, about 1:30 am local time.  I blogged whining about not meeting
people and the talks being boring.  Well, I met a bunch of people and saw some cool
talks.  Everyone loosens up in the evening but the concentration of 400 programmers in
one place is intense during the day.  They did an auction and I got a limited edition
Larry Wall action figure.  Got to ride the train back with Larry Wall.  At one point, 
we were switching trains and were standing on the platform.  He pulled out a small
compass of the sphere variety, looked at it, and commented to those in earshot that every
memory of his is tagged with a direction he was facing, right or wrong.  Met a bunch
of other interesting people and a bunch of other people of fame, but I'm going to not
list them because that's silly.  Everyone is extremely easy going.  Have a small clip
of video I'll try to rip (camcorder, not $10 camera) of Larry Wall being auctioned off
(for lunch).   Talks are starting to appear on line.  Here are some links to slides
and such:

http://pugs.blogs.com/talks/yapcna-deploy-perl6.swf
http://www.pmichaud.com/2006/pres/yapc-perl6/slide.html
http://perlcabal.org/~gaal/peek/index.html
http://www.pmichaud.com/2006/pres/yapc-parsers/slide.html (to become valid some point tomorrow)
http://blog.bulknews.net/mt/archives/iTunesHacks-YAPCNA.pdf
http://wgz.org/chromatic/talks/perl_hacks.tar.gz

http://pugscode.org/talks/oscon05/movies.html

More are at http://yapcchicago.org/wiki/index.cgi?YAPCSlides but those were my
favorites (in no particular order).

The campus is beautiful.  I've had apartments smaller -- and not as nice -- as the SSV
double dorms.  I could write an essay on just that:  the wrap-around floor to ceiling
windows, the furniture, large bathroom with shower and toilet a room off of the
bathroom, curved aircraft like "hull", patios on the top floor for parties that don't
disturb your neighbors, etc, etc.  IIT is largely an architecture school and they
walk the walk. Some people complain about the bare cement and metal, but I think
it fits nicely with the idea of "postmodernism" with the exposed ducts and all that
that Larry described as a Perlish philosphy in one of his early State of the Onion
addresses.  And while it lacks some superficial comforts such as carpet (ick), it
has others, such as breaks in the building with mini gardens so that the rooms on the
end have a view too, and the top floor patios and commons areas.  The architect
also eliminated the long-dark-hall syndome.  The main halls house the commons areas,
main desk on the first floor, elevator landings, etc, and are glass on both sides.
The halves of the building connected by this hall have an internal, non-day-lit
hall, but the tunnel effect is offset by the main hall being daylit and open.

More than anything else, YAPC seems to be one huge retreat for hard core and
aspring Perl goons, with technical meetings all day long and social meeting
into the night.  Calling it a con underemphasizes the closeness of the community.

-scott




On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:

> http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_talks_people_listen.jpg
> 
> Other animated gif is still uploading.  Sorry.
> 
> -scott
> 
> On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> > http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_at_yapc.gif
> > 
> > If people are interested I'll try to get some better pics.  $10 camera.  Sorry.
> > There are a hell of a lot of laptops in the audiance.
> > 
> > -scott
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From scott at illogics.org  Wed Jun 28 01:26:08 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:26:08 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
In-Reply-To: <20060628081725.GN7832@illogics.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<E1Fq9Z4-0005p9-EE@pointless.epfarms.org>
	<20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<20060626151224.GW29588@illogics.org>
	<20060626152346.GX29588@illogics.org>
	<20060628081725.GN7832@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <20060628082608.GO7832@illogics.org>

This is so juicy it had to be it's own email.  

Check out the v6 module on CPAN.  Perl 5 programs can use p6-pugs;, which is the
same thing as saying use p6 '-pugs';.  p6 runs the rest of the program through
Pugs and then tells Pugs to dump the code to Perl 5 using its P5 backend, and
then P5 runs it.  Craziness.  And the resulting code has no unusual dependencies --
just a few P5 modules.  

-scott

On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> Hi Phoenix.PM,
> 
> Wow.  Okay, I knew Randal threw a big party every year.  I didn't know everyone was invited.
> I'm just back from that, about 1:30 am local time.  I blogged whining about not meeting
> people and the talks being boring.  Well, I met a bunch of people and saw some cool
> talks.  Everyone loosens up in the evening but the concentration of 400 programmers in
> one place is intense during the day.  They did an auction and I got a limited edition
> Larry Wall action figure.  Got to ride the train back with Larry Wall.  At one point, 
> we were switching trains and were standing on the platform.  He pulled out a small
> compass of the sphere variety, looked at it, and commented to those in earshot that every
> memory of his is tagged with a direction he was facing, right or wrong.  Met a bunch
> of other interesting people and a bunch of other people of fame, but I'm going to not
> list them because that's silly.  Everyone is extremely easy going.  Have a small clip
> of video I'll try to rip (camcorder, not $10 camera) of Larry Wall being auctioned off
> (for lunch).   Talks are starting to appear on line.  Here are some links to slides
> and such:
> 
> http://pugs.blogs.com/talks/yapcna-deploy-perl6.swf
> http://www.pmichaud.com/2006/pres/yapc-perl6/slide.html
> http://perlcabal.org/~gaal/peek/index.html
> http://www.pmichaud.com/2006/pres/yapc-parsers/slide.html (to become valid some point tomorrow)
> http://blog.bulknews.net/mt/archives/iTunesHacks-YAPCNA.pdf
> http://wgz.org/chromatic/talks/perl_hacks.tar.gz
> 
> http://pugscode.org/talks/oscon05/movies.html
> 
> More are at http://yapcchicago.org/wiki/index.cgi?YAPCSlides but those were my
> favorites (in no particular order).
> 
> The campus is beautiful.  I've had apartments smaller -- and not as nice -- as the SSV
> double dorms.  I could write an essay on just that:  the wrap-around floor to ceiling
> windows, the furniture, large bathroom with shower and toilet a room off of the
> bathroom, curved aircraft like "hull", patios on the top floor for parties that don't
> disturb your neighbors, etc, etc.  IIT is largely an architecture school and they
> walk the walk. Some people complain about the bare cement and metal, but I think
> it fits nicely with the idea of "postmodernism" with the exposed ducts and all that
> that Larry described as a Perlish philosphy in one of his early State of the Onion
> addresses.  And while it lacks some superficial comforts such as carpet (ick), it
> has others, such as breaks in the building with mini gardens so that the rooms on the
> end have a view too, and the top floor patios and commons areas.  The architect
> also eliminated the long-dark-hall syndome.  The main halls house the commons areas,
> main desk on the first floor, elevator landings, etc, and are glass on both sides.
> The halves of the building connected by this hall have an internal, non-day-lit
> hall, but the tunnel effect is offset by the main hall being daylit and open.
> 
> More than anything else, YAPC seems to be one huge retreat for hard core and
> aspring Perl goons, with technical meetings all day long and social meeting
> into the night.  Calling it a con underemphasizes the closeness of the community.
> 
> -scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> 
> > http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_talks_people_listen.jpg
> > 
> > Other animated gif is still uploading.  Sorry.
> > 
> > -scott
> > 
> > On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> > > http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_at_yapc.gif
> > > 
> > > If people are interested I'll try to get some better pics.  $10 camera.  Sorry.
> > > There are a hell of a lot of laptops in the audiance.
> > > 
> > > -scott
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From andypm at exiledplanet.org  Wed Jun 28 12:42:03 2006
From: andypm at exiledplanet.org (Andrew Johnson)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:42:03 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
Message-ID: <e0d2adc80606281242l6ca51d1bhe40427ee0448a9f4@mail.gmail.com>

I'm doing the blogging thing too:

http://www.transformedplanet.com/blog/tech/yapcna2006/

Not too many presentation photos, but I do have one shot of Scott and his
new acquisition:

http://www.transformedplanet.com/blog/tech/yapcna2006/flickr176866768.html

[aj]
-------------- next part --------------
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From scott at illogics.org  Wed Jun 28 13:43:16 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:43:16 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
In-Reply-To: <20060628081725.GN7832@illogics.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<E1Fq9Z4-0005p9-EE@pointless.epfarms.org>
	<20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<20060626151224.GW29588@illogics.org>
	<20060626152346.GX29588@illogics.org>
	<20060628081725.GN7832@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <20060628204316.GP7832@illogics.org>

You MUST view the video of Takesako's YAPC::Asia presentation as performed
by Audrey.  

http://www.archive.org/download/YAPCAsia2006TokyoLightningTalkppencodeforPerllover/yapc_060330_ppencode_for_perl_lover.mov

Think that's Japanese.

Ingy shuffled his slives before giving his talk (actually, as he started his talk) -- 
on purpose.  Half of them are on topic.  Half of them are funny.  All of them are 
strange.

Everyone is on the irc.perl.org #yapc channel talking about the presentations as 
they happen/conclude.  Still laptops everywhere.  Someone just got gonged off
stage when they hit their time limit.

Jose sublet out his lightning talk and is giving his friends all 30 seconds to
read their proffered up half arsed technology predictions and it's funny as heck.

Oh, and now it's theater, involving Damian.  And Randal.  

-scott

On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> Hi Phoenix.PM,
> 
> Wow.  Okay, I knew Randal threw a big party every year.  I didn't know everyone was invited.
> I'm just back from that, about 1:30 am local time.  I blogged whining about not meeting
> people and the talks being boring.  Well, I met a bunch of people and saw some cool
> talks.  Everyone loosens up in the evening but the concentration of 400 programmers in
> one place is intense during the day.  They did an auction and I got a limited edition
> Larry Wall action figure.  Got to ride the train back with Larry Wall.  At one point, 
> we were switching trains and were standing on the platform.  He pulled out a small
> compass of the sphere variety, looked at it, and commented to those in earshot that every
> memory of his is tagged with a direction he was facing, right or wrong.  Met a bunch
> of other interesting people and a bunch of other people of fame, but I'm going to not
> list them because that's silly.  Everyone is extremely easy going.  Have a small clip
> of video I'll try to rip (camcorder, not $10 camera) of Larry Wall being auctioned off
> (for lunch).   Talks are starting to appear on line.  Here are some links to slides
> and such:
> 
> http://pugs.blogs.com/talks/yapcna-deploy-perl6.swf
> http://www.pmichaud.com/2006/pres/yapc-perl6/slide.html
> http://perlcabal.org/~gaal/peek/index.html
> http://www.pmichaud.com/2006/pres/yapc-parsers/slide.html (to become valid some point tomorrow)
> http://blog.bulknews.net/mt/archives/iTunesHacks-YAPCNA.pdf
> http://wgz.org/chromatic/talks/perl_hacks.tar.gz
> 
> http://pugscode.org/talks/oscon05/movies.html
> 
> More are at http://yapcchicago.org/wiki/index.cgi?YAPCSlides but those were my
> favorites (in no particular order).
> 
> The campus is beautiful.  I've had apartments smaller -- and not as nice -- as the SSV
> double dorms.  I could write an essay on just that:  the wrap-around floor to ceiling
> windows, the furniture, large bathroom with shower and toilet a room off of the
> bathroom, curved aircraft like "hull", patios on the top floor for parties that don't
> disturb your neighbors, etc, etc.  IIT is largely an architecture school and they
> walk the walk. Some people complain about the bare cement and metal, but I think
> it fits nicely with the idea of "postmodernism" with the exposed ducts and all that
> that Larry described as a Perlish philosphy in one of his early State of the Onion
> addresses.  And while it lacks some superficial comforts such as carpet (ick), it
> has others, such as breaks in the building with mini gardens so that the rooms on the
> end have a view too, and the top floor patios and commons areas.  The architect
> also eliminated the long-dark-hall syndome.  The main halls house the commons areas,
> main desk on the first floor, elevator landings, etc, and are glass on both sides.
> The halves of the building connected by this hall have an internal, non-day-lit
> hall, but the tunnel effect is offset by the main hall being daylit and open.
> 
> More than anything else, YAPC seems to be one huge retreat for hard core and
> aspring Perl goons, with technical meetings all day long and social meeting
> into the night.  Calling it a con underemphasizes the closeness of the community.
> 
> -scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> 
> > http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_talks_people_listen.jpg
> > 
> > Other animated gif is still uploading.  Sorry.
> > 
> > -scott
> > 
> > On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> > > http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_at_yapc.gif
> > > 
> > > If people are interested I'll try to get some better pics.  $10 camera.  Sorry.
> > > There are a hell of a lot of laptops in the audiance.
> > > 
> > > -scott
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From scott at illogics.org  Thu Jun 29 12:20:56 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:20:56 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
In-Reply-To: <20060628204316.GP7832@illogics.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<E1Fq9Z4-0005p9-EE@pointless.epfarms.org>
	<20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<20060626151224.GW29588@illogics.org>
	<20060626152346.GX29588@illogics.org>
	<20060628081725.GN7832@illogics.org>
	<20060628204316.GP7832@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <20060629192056.GQ7832@illogics.org>

More media... here's a lightning talky thingie where a bunch of people get
convicted.  It's following in the joke that the SSV (Something Student Village)
dorm looks like a prison, with all of it's stainless steal and concrete, not to
mention metal mesh and grating.  Mostly the talk is pictures of well known
Perl people guissed up as criminals:

http://rjbs.manxome.org/tmp/yapc2006.mov

It's a lot funnier when it's being ready with the correct inflection etc.

-scott

PS: Correcting the previous note (writing these with just brief chunks of time
up until now), the URL is for the previous performance of this which happens
to be non-English.  I'm still waiting to see of Audrey's version, which is
English, makes it up as a movie.

-scott



On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> You MUST view the video of Takesako's YAPC::Asia presentation as performed
> by Audrey.  
> 
> http://www.archive.org/download/YAPCAsia2006TokyoLightningTalkppencodeforPerllover/yapc_060330_ppencode_for_perl_lover.mov
> 
> Think that's Japanese.
> 
> Ingy shuffled his slives before giving his talk (actually, as he started his talk) -- 
> on purpose.  Half of them are on topic.  Half of them are funny.  All of them are 
> strange.
> 
> Everyone is on the irc.perl.org #yapc channel talking about the presentations as 
> they happen/conclude.  Still laptops everywhere.  Someone just got gonged off
> stage when they hit their time limit.
> 
> Jose sublet out his lightning talk and is giving his friends all 30 seconds to
> read their proffered up half arsed technology predictions and it's funny as heck.
> 
> Oh, and now it's theater, involving Damian.  And Randal.  
> 
> -scott
> 
> On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> > Hi Phoenix.PM,
> > 
> > Wow.  Okay, I knew Randal threw a big party every year.  I didn't know everyone was invited.
> > I'm just back from that, about 1:30 am local time.  I blogged whining about not meeting
> > people and the talks being boring.  Well, I met a bunch of people and saw some cool
> > talks.  Everyone loosens up in the evening but the concentration of 400 programmers in
> > one place is intense during the day.  They did an auction and I got a limited edition
> > Larry Wall action figure.  Got to ride the train back with Larry Wall.  At one point, 
> > we were switching trains and were standing on the platform.  He pulled out a small
> > compass of the sphere variety, looked at it, and commented to those in earshot that every
> > memory of his is tagged with a direction he was facing, right or wrong.  Met a bunch
> > of other interesting people and a bunch of other people of fame, but I'm going to not
> > list them because that's silly.  Everyone is extremely easy going.  Have a small clip
> > of video I'll try to rip (camcorder, not $10 camera) of Larry Wall being auctioned off
> > (for lunch).   Talks are starting to appear on line.  Here are some links to slides
> > and such:
> > 
> > http://pugs.blogs.com/talks/yapcna-deploy-perl6.swf
> > http://www.pmichaud.com/2006/pres/yapc-perl6/slide.html
> > http://perlcabal.org/~gaal/peek/index.html
> > http://www.pmichaud.com/2006/pres/yapc-parsers/slide.html (to become valid some point tomorrow)
> > http://blog.bulknews.net/mt/archives/iTunesHacks-YAPCNA.pdf
> > http://wgz.org/chromatic/talks/perl_hacks.tar.gz
> > 
> > http://pugscode.org/talks/oscon05/movies.html
> > 
> > More are at http://yapcchicago.org/wiki/index.cgi?YAPCSlides but those were my
> > favorites (in no particular order).
> > 
> > The campus is beautiful.  I've had apartments smaller -- and not as nice -- as the SSV
> > double dorms.  I could write an essay on just that:  the wrap-around floor to ceiling
> > windows, the furniture, large bathroom with shower and toilet a room off of the
> > bathroom, curved aircraft like "hull", patios on the top floor for parties that don't
> > disturb your neighbors, etc, etc.  IIT is largely an architecture school and they
> > walk the walk. Some people complain about the bare cement and metal, but I think
> > it fits nicely with the idea of "postmodernism" with the exposed ducts and all that
> > that Larry described as a Perlish philosphy in one of his early State of the Onion
> > addresses.  And while it lacks some superficial comforts such as carpet (ick), it
> > has others, such as breaks in the building with mini gardens so that the rooms on the
> > end have a view too, and the top floor patios and commons areas.  The architect
> > also eliminated the long-dark-hall syndome.  The main halls house the commons areas,
> > main desk on the first floor, elevator landings, etc, and are glass on both sides.
> > The halves of the building connected by this hall have an internal, non-day-lit
> > hall, but the tunnel effect is offset by the main hall being daylit and open.
> > 
> > More than anything else, YAPC seems to be one huge retreat for hard core and
> > aspring Perl goons, with technical meetings all day long and social meeting
> > into the night.  Calling it a con underemphasizes the closeness of the community.
> > 
> > -scott
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_talks_people_listen.jpg
> > > 
> > > Other animated gif is still uploading.  Sorry.
> > > 
> > > -scott
> > > 
> > > On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> > > > http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_at_yapc.gif
> > > > 
> > > > If people are interested I'll try to get some better pics.  $10 camera.  Sorry.
> > > > There are a hell of a lot of laptops in the audiance.
> > > > 
> > > > -scott
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From scott at illogics.org  Thu Jun 29 12:24:05 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:24:05 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
In-Reply-To: <20060629192056.GQ7832@illogics.org>
References: <20060613055651.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<E1Fq9Z4-0005p9-EE@pointless.epfarms.org>
	<20060622234800.GA10939@thelackthereof.org>
	<20060626151224.GW29588@illogics.org>
	<20060626152346.GX29588@illogics.org>
	<20060628081725.GN7832@illogics.org>
	<20060628204316.GP7832@illogics.org>
	<20060629192056.GQ7832@illogics.org>
Message-ID: <20060629192405.GR7832@illogics.org>

By the way, I'm back in town.  We should do a meeting as soon as reasonable =)

Here's another fun thing -- people's highs/lows/etc from the con:

http://yapcchicago.org/wiki/index.cgi?HighLowGoalCrushBane

-scott

On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> More media... here's a lightning talky thingie where a bunch of people get
> convicted.  It's following in the joke that the SSV (Something Student Village)
> dorm looks like a prison, with all of it's stainless steal and concrete, not to
> mention metal mesh and grating.  Mostly the talk is pictures of well known
> Perl people guissed up as criminals:
> 
> http://rjbs.manxome.org/tmp/yapc2006.mov
> 
> It's a lot funnier when it's being ready with the correct inflection etc.
> 
> -scott
> 
> PS: Correcting the previous note (writing these with just brief chunks of time
> up until now), the URL is for the previous performance of this which happens
> to be non-English.  I'm still waiting to see of Audrey's version, which is
> English, makes it up as a movie.
> 
> -scott
> 
> 
> 
> On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> > You MUST view the video of Takesako's YAPC::Asia presentation as performed
> > by Audrey.  
> > 
> > http://www.archive.org/download/YAPCAsia2006TokyoLightningTalkppencodeforPerllover/yapc_060330_ppencode_for_perl_lover.mov
> > 
> > Think that's Japanese.
> > 
> > Ingy shuffled his slives before giving his talk (actually, as he started his talk) -- 
> > on purpose.  Half of them are on topic.  Half of them are funny.  All of them are 
> > strange.
> > 
> > Everyone is on the irc.perl.org #yapc channel talking about the presentations as 
> > they happen/conclude.  Still laptops everywhere.  Someone just got gonged off
> > stage when they hit their time limit.
> > 
> > Jose sublet out his lightning talk and is giving his friends all 30 seconds to
> > read their proffered up half arsed technology predictions and it's funny as heck.
> > 
> > Oh, and now it's theater, involving Damian.  And Randal.  
> > 
> > -scott
> > 
> > On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> > > Hi Phoenix.PM,
> > > 
> > > Wow.  Okay, I knew Randal threw a big party every year.  I didn't know everyone was invited.
> > > I'm just back from that, about 1:30 am local time.  I blogged whining about not meeting
> > > people and the talks being boring.  Well, I met a bunch of people and saw some cool
> > > talks.  Everyone loosens up in the evening but the concentration of 400 programmers in
> > > one place is intense during the day.  They did an auction and I got a limited edition
> > > Larry Wall action figure.  Got to ride the train back with Larry Wall.  At one point, 
> > > we were switching trains and were standing on the platform.  He pulled out a small
> > > compass of the sphere variety, looked at it, and commented to those in earshot that every
> > > memory of his is tagged with a direction he was facing, right or wrong.  Met a bunch
> > > of other interesting people and a bunch of other people of fame, but I'm going to not
> > > list them because that's silly.  Everyone is extremely easy going.  Have a small clip
> > > of video I'll try to rip (camcorder, not $10 camera) of Larry Wall being auctioned off
> > > (for lunch).   Talks are starting to appear on line.  Here are some links to slides
> > > and such:
> > > 
> > > http://pugs.blogs.com/talks/yapcna-deploy-perl6.swf
> > > http://www.pmichaud.com/2006/pres/yapc-perl6/slide.html
> > > http://perlcabal.org/~gaal/peek/index.html
> > > http://www.pmichaud.com/2006/pres/yapc-parsers/slide.html (to become valid some point tomorrow)
> > > http://blog.bulknews.net/mt/archives/iTunesHacks-YAPCNA.pdf
> > > http://wgz.org/chromatic/talks/perl_hacks.tar.gz
> > > 
> > > http://pugscode.org/talks/oscon05/movies.html
> > > 
> > > More are at http://yapcchicago.org/wiki/index.cgi?YAPCSlides but those were my
> > > favorites (in no particular order).
> > > 
> > > The campus is beautiful.  I've had apartments smaller -- and not as nice -- as the SSV
> > > double dorms.  I could write an essay on just that:  the wrap-around floor to ceiling
> > > windows, the furniture, large bathroom with shower and toilet a room off of the
> > > bathroom, curved aircraft like "hull", patios on the top floor for parties that don't
> > > disturb your neighbors, etc, etc.  IIT is largely an architecture school and they
> > > walk the walk. Some people complain about the bare cement and metal, but I think
> > > it fits nicely with the idea of "postmodernism" with the exposed ducts and all that
> > > that Larry described as a Perlish philosphy in one of his early State of the Onion
> > > addresses.  And while it lacks some superficial comforts such as carpet (ick), it
> > > has others, such as breaks in the building with mini gardens so that the rooms on the
> > > end have a view too, and the top floor patios and commons areas.  The architect
> > > also eliminated the long-dark-hall syndome.  The main halls house the commons areas,
> > > main desk on the first floor, elevator landings, etc, and are glass on both sides.
> > > The halves of the building connected by this hall have an internal, non-day-lit
> > > hall, but the tunnel effect is offset by the main hall being daylit and open.
> > > 
> > > More than anything else, YAPC seems to be one huge retreat for hard core and
> > > aspring Perl goons, with technical meetings all day long and social meeting
> > > into the night.  Calling it a con underemphasizes the closeness of the community.
> > > 
> > > -scott
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_talks_people_listen.jpg
> > > > 
> > > > Other animated gif is still uploading.  Sorry.
> > > > 
> > > > -scott
> > > > 
> > > > On  0, Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org> wrote:
> > > > > http://slowass.net/~scott/larry_at_yapc.gif
> > > > > 
> > > > > If people are interested I'll try to get some better pics.  $10 camera.  Sorry.
> > > > > There are a hell of a lot of laptops in the audiance.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -scott
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Phoenix-pm mailing list
> > > > > Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From andypm at exiledplanet.org  Thu Jun 29 23:25:07 2006
From: andypm at exiledplanet.org (Andrew Johnson)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:25:07 -0700
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
Message-ID: <e0d2adc80606292325v5680c36fr2deedec5040272aa@mail.gmail.com>

You know, I think it would be cool if we could have a meeting where Scott,
Nathan, and I do some mini-presentations on the things we found most
interesting at YAPC.  We could limit our topics to 5-10 min (think Lightning
Talks here).  For my part, I'd definitely like to present something about
SVK (disconnected, peer-to-peer source control) and Plagger (RSS aggregation
for various purposes).

I won't be back in town until July 7th.  I could pull together a
presentation for late in the week of the 10th, but the following week might
be better.
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From scott at illogics.org  Fri Jun 30 01:06:31 2006
From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 08:06:31 +0000
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
In-Reply-To: <e0d2adc80606292325v5680c36fr2deedec5040272aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e0d2adc80606292325v5680c36fr2deedec5040272aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060630080631.GO29588@illogics.org>

Works for me.  Didn't realize you were on extended vacation.

-scott

On  0, Andrew Johnson <andypm at exiledplanet.org> wrote:
> 
>    You know, I think it would be cool if we could have a meeting where
>    Scott, Nathan, and I do some mini-presentations on the things we found
>    most interesting at YAPC.  We could limit our topics to 5-10 min
>    (think Lightning Talks here).  For my part, I'd definitely like to
>    present something about SVK (disconnected, peer-to-peer source
>    control) and Plagger (RSS aggregation for various purposes).
>    I won't be back in town until July 7th.  I could pull together a
>    presentation for late in the week of the 10th, but the following week
>    might be better.

> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm

From andypm at exiledplanet.org  Fri Jun 30 06:41:23 2006
From: andypm at exiledplanet.org (andypm at exiledplanet.org)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 06:41:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
Message-ID: <44a52a03.563eef4f.244b.1b10@mx.gmail.com>

Vacation?  No, I'm working the $DayJob from here next week.

[aj]


-----Original Message-----

From:  Scott Walters <scott at illogics.org>
Subj:  Re: [Phoenix-pm] Live from YAPC!
Date:  Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:06 am
Size:  865 bytes
To:  Andrew Johnson <andypm at exiledplanet.org>
cc:  phoenix-pm at pm.org

Works for me.  Didn't realize you were on extended vacation.

-scott

On  0, Andrew Johnson <andypm at exiledplanet.org> wrote:
> 
>    You know, I think it would be cool if we could have a meeting where
>    Scott, Nathan, and I do some mini-presentations on the things we found
>    most interesting at YAPC.  We could limit our topics to 5-10 min
>    (think Lightning Talks here).  For my part, I'd definitely like to
>    present something about SVK (disconnected, peer-to-peer source
>    control) and Plagger (RSS aggregation for various purposes).
>    I won't be back in town until July 7th.  I could pull together a
>    presentation for late in the week of the 10th, but the following week
>    might be better.

> _______________________________________________
> Phoenix-pm mailing list
> Phoenix-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm