From andypm at exiledplanet.org Tue Aug 1 01:59:17 2006 From: andypm at exiledplanet.org (Andrew Johnson) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 01:59:17 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] DBD::Oracle 1.18 Anyone? Message-ID: http://use.perl.org/articles/06/07/29/1354216.shtml Anybody tried this out yet? Dropping certain query times from 1hr to 10min could lead to some pretty significant performance gains... [aj] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/phoenix-pm/attachments/20060801/88c24697/attachment.html From andypm at exiledplanet.org Tue Aug 1 01:59:17 2006 From: andypm at exiledplanet.org (Andrew Johnson) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 01:59:17 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] DBD::Oracle 1.18 Anyone? Message-ID: http://use.perl.org/articles/06/07/29/1354216.shtml Anybody tried this out yet? Dropping certain query times from 1hr to 10min could lead to some pretty significant performance gains... [aj] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/phoenix-pm/attachments/20060801/88c24697/attachment-0001.html From perlguy at earthlink.net Mon Aug 7 13:59:24 2006 From: perlguy at earthlink.net (Douglas E. Miles) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 13:59:24 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Eval Namespace Question Message-ID: <44D7A9AC.6000809@earthlink.net> Hey all! I'm having fun hacking Perl for a change, and I just realized I'd been using a feature that I don't completely understand. man perlfunc says this about eval: In the first form, the return value of EXPR is parsed and exe- cuted as if it were a little Perl program. The value of the expression (which is itself determined within scalar context) is first parsed, and if there weren't any errors, executed in the lexical context of the current Perl program, so that any variable settings or subroutine and format definitions remain afterwards. This means that in my code below, that $bar is in scope within the eval. What blows me away is that $foo::foo is also in scope because of the "package foo" statement in $eval_string. Does anyone know how perl accesses both namespaces simultaneously without specifying the namespace in each variable name. Feel free to laugh at me if I'm missing something basic. :) The cool thing is that this behavior is exactly what I need. I'd just like to understand how it works (and hope that it isn't a misfeature that might be removed in the future). Thanks! #!/usr/bin/perl package foo; $foo = "FOO!"; package bar; my $bar = "BAR!"; my $perl_code = 'print "$bar $foo\n"'; print "$perl_code\n"; my $eval_string = "package foo;\n$perl_code"; eval $eval_string; From perlguy at earthlink.net Mon Aug 7 14:06:54 2006 From: perlguy at earthlink.net (Douglas E. Miles) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 14:06:54 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] In town Sun, Mon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44D7AB6E.3030204@earthlink.net> Michael Friedman wrote: >Well, since it's 5 pm and Scott hasn't responded, I think we should >go ahead with Steve's Espresso at 7 or so, since that was the last >settled plan. > >If Scott comes back and Nathan, Darrin, and Scott decide on somewhere >else, someone call my cell phone and let me know. 480-209-9367. > >Otherwise, I'll see anyone at Steve's. > >-- Mike > > > Sorry I missed you Mike! Hope you guys had fun. >On Jul 31, 2006, at 2:37 PM, Oyler, Nathan wrote: > > > >>I'm digging a Denny's style outing if I can make it. I've got to >>run by >>the datacenter after work (why I wanted Sunday), so it really >>depends on >>if everything goes according to plan there. Driving distance isn't a >>concern tonight, so I don't care where. >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Scott Walters [mailto:scott at illogics.org] >>>Sent: Monday, Jul 31, 2006 14:42 PM >>>To: Michael Friedman >>>Cc: Oyler, Nathan; Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>>Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] In town Sun, Mon >>> >>>I'm inclined to declare an emergency meeting at the first Dennys- >>>scale >>>resturant without walking distance of Michael... I don't think I >>> >>> >>actually >> >> >>>caught up on this conversation. My attempt to go back in my spool a >>> >>> >>bit >> >> >>>got me distracted for several hours with *other* things that needed >>>attention (curses!) and now I'm afraid to try again. Or if Michael >>> >>> >>has >> >> >>>a car and wants to take no risk of having a boring evening alone, I >>>can declare the meeting to be at da house. >>> >>>I should also note that Michael's last talk about technology and >>>automation and how they were processing abstracts with Perl at >>>Highwire Press was intriguing went over quite well. But that was >>>right after Slashdot ran a story about how Google was VICIOUSLY >>>ATTACKING academic publishing houses like Highwire, which Michael >>>found laughable. >>> >>>Anyway. Thoughts? Should we just go to Michael's hotel room, or >>>should Michael just go to da house? (I can't call it "my house", >>>because it is of course Heather's). >>> >>>-scott >>> >>>On 0, Michael Friedman wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Only one response? Could more people make Monday? >>>> >>>>-- Mike >>>> >>>>On Jul 29, 2006, at 9:29 AM, Oyler, Nathan wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Provided all goes well today and I get my brakes fixed, I'm in for >>>>>a sunday get together >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: phoenix-pm-bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org >>>>bounces+nathan.oyler=sap.com at pm.org> >>>>>To: Phoenix.pm >>>>>Sent: Sat Jul 29 08:57:02 2006 >>>>>Subject: [Phoenix-pm] In town Sun, Mon >>>>> >>>>>Fellow Perl Mongers, >>>>> >>>>>Sorry for the late notice, but I'm actually in town this weekend! >>>>>Would anyone like to get together for a social meeting Sunday or >>>>>Monday night? >>>>> >>>>>I'm staying in downtown Scottsdale, but can drive anywhere on the >>>>>East Side to downtown Phoenix. Anyone have a suggestion for a >>>>>convenient place? >>>>> >>>>>I'd love to see everyone again if possible. If there is interest, >>>>> >>>>> >>I >> >> >>>>>could present some of the XML stuff I've been working on >>>>> >>>>> >>(high-level >> >> >>>>>design, not Perl specific) or talk about reference linking for >>>>>journal articles using Perl and a database. I'd also love to hear >>>>>about ICFP and OSCON and just catch up with y'all. >>>>> >>>>>Hope to see everyone soon, >>>>>-- Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>>Michael Friedman HighWire Press >>>>>Phone: 650-725-1974 Stanford University >>>>>FAX: 270-721-8034 >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Phoenix-pm mailing list >>>>>Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>>>>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>Michael Friedman HighWire Press >>>>Phone: 650-725-1974 Stanford University >>>>FAX: 270-721-8034 >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Phoenix-pm mailing list >>>>Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>>>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm >>>> >>>> > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Michael Friedman HighWire Press >Phone: 650-725-1974 Stanford University >FAX: 270-721-8034 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >_______________________________________________ >Phoenix-pm mailing list >Phoenix-pm at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > From perlguy at earthlink.net Mon Aug 7 14:09:51 2006 From: perlguy at earthlink.net (Douglas E. Miles) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 14:09:51 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Eval Namespace Question In-Reply-To: <44D7A9AC.6000809@earthlink.net> References: <44D7A9AC.6000809@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <44D7AC1F.2010909@earthlink.net> Here's a question mark: ? Feel free to put it after the sentence "Does anyone...". D'oh! Douglas E. Miles wrote: >Hey all! > >I'm having fun hacking Perl for a change, and I just realized I'd been >using a feature that I don't completely understand. man perlfunc says >this about eval: > >In the first form, the return value of EXPR is parsed and exe- >cuted as if it were a little Perl program. The value of the >expression (which is itself determined within scalar context) >is first parsed, and if there weren't any errors, executed in >the lexical context of the current Perl program, so that any >variable settings or subroutine and format definitions remain >afterwards. > >This means that in my code below, that $bar is in scope within the >eval. What blows me away is that $foo::foo is also in scope because of >the "package foo" statement in $eval_string. Does anyone know how perl >accesses both namespaces simultaneously without specifying the namespace >in each variable name. Feel free to laugh at me if I'm missing >something basic. :) The cool thing is that this behavior is exactly >what I need. I'd just like to understand how it works (and hope that it >isn't a misfeature that might be removed in the future). Thanks! > > >#!/usr/bin/perl > >package foo; > >$foo = "FOO!"; > >package bar; > >my $bar = "BAR!"; > >my $perl_code = 'print "$bar $foo\n"'; >print "$perl_code\n"; > >my $eval_string = "package foo;\n$perl_code"; >eval $eval_string; > >_______________________________________________ >Phoenix-pm mailing list >Phoenix-pm at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > From billn at odyssey.billn.net Mon Aug 7 14:26:46 2006 From: billn at odyssey.billn.net (Bill Nash) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Eval Namespace Question In-Reply-To: <44D7A9AC.6000809@earthlink.net> References: <44D7A9AC.6000809@earthlink.net> Message-ID: If you're excited about perl forwarding that namespace into your eval, just remember that's a double edged sword. When you're to a point where you're thinking about efficiency, or perl starts to core dump with frightening regularity, revisit your use of eval. - billn On Mon, 7 Aug 2006, Douglas E. Miles wrote: > Hey all! > > I'm having fun hacking Perl for a change, and I just realized I'd been > using a feature that I don't completely understand. man perlfunc says > this about eval: > > In the first form, the return value of EXPR is parsed and exe- > cuted as if it were a little Perl program. The value of the > expression (which is itself determined within scalar context) > is first parsed, and if there weren't any errors, executed in > the lexical context of the current Perl program, so that any > variable settings or subroutine and format definitions remain > afterwards. > > This means that in my code below, that $bar is in scope within the > eval. What blows me away is that $foo::foo is also in scope because of > the "package foo" statement in $eval_string. Does anyone know how perl > accesses both namespaces simultaneously without specifying the namespace > in each variable name. Feel free to laugh at me if I'm missing > something basic. :) The cool thing is that this behavior is exactly > what I need. I'd just like to understand how it works (and hope that it > isn't a misfeature that might be removed in the future). Thanks! > > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > package foo; > > $foo = "FOO!"; > > package bar; > > my $bar = "BAR!"; > > my $perl_code = 'print "$bar $foo\n"'; > print "$perl_code\n"; > > my $eval_string = "package foo;\n$perl_code"; > eval $eval_string; > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > From scott at illogics.org Mon Aug 7 15:08:50 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 22:08:50 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Eval Namespace Question In-Reply-To: <44D7A9AC.6000809@earthlink.net> References: <44D7A9AC.6000809@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20060807220850.GQ29588@illogics.org> Hi Doug, So, what *have* you been up to? Don't use eval on a string. eval { } is fine to use and you should be trapping errors, and that's how that's done. 99% of the time people use eval on a string, they're trying to hammer in a screw. > This means that in my code below, that $bar is in scope within the > eval. What blows me away is that $foo::foo is also in scope because of > the "package foo" statement in $eval_string. Does anyone know how perl > > #!/usr/bin/perl > package foo; Use strict and warnings. > $foo = "FOO!"; > package bar; > my $bar = "BAR!"; > my $perl_code = 'print "$bar $foo\n"'; > print "$perl_code\n"; > > my $eval_string = "package foo;\n$perl_code"; > eval $eval_string; To answer your actual question, variables created (defined implicitly or explicitly) at the "top level" (outside of any blocks) have a scope called "file scope", where they're in scope until the end of the file. This would work with my $foo too. Sometimes people do this to get less scope than file scope: package foo; { my $foo = "FOO!"; } package bar; { ... } There are other derivitives of out. Now, here's what you *should* be writing to avoid a plague of security and performance problems too numerous to enumerate and too pervasive to ignore the shame they've brought upon us all: package foo; use strict; use warnings; my $foo = "FOO!"; package bar; # note that strict and warnings also have file scope my $bar = "BAR!": my $perl_code = sub { print "$bar $foo\n"; }; $perl_code->(); # note that you could pass arguments In this adaptation, you can't easily modify the code by prepending things like "package foo;", but dataflow is an entire other question. Rather than changing packages that code evaluates in, you should be passing objects in, and the object should encapsulate the set of values. Also, with code references, if the code reference references some variable (such as $foo and $bar), if the value of $foo or $bar changes (the *same* $foo or $bar, not one created later or in a different scope) then the value that gets printed also changes. So... 1. use code references instead of eval 2. use object instances rather than packages full of global values 3. when you want a global of some sort, use the constant module... use constant foo => 'FOO!'; 4. report to the list more often and tell us how your life is going and what you're up to, for chrissakes! As far as the "use objects" spiel... I'm assuming the worst, so forgive me for that, but in my experience, the not-so-bad-scenario can usually be considered to be similar enough to the bad scenario that the refactoring/best practice/design heuristic/whatever still applies. Computing package names on the fly invokes fear and dread for good reason and should only be used to intentionally voke fear and dread. Etc, etc, etc. Glad to see you're still alive, Doug. -scott > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From perlguy at earthlink.net Mon Aug 7 19:37:20 2006 From: perlguy at earthlink.net (Douglas E. Miles) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:37:20 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Eval Namespace Question In-Reply-To: References: <44D7A9AC.6000809@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <44D7F8E0.9090702@earthlink.net> Bill Nash wrote: > > If you're excited about perl forwarding that namespace into your eval, > just remember that's a double edged sword. When you're to a point > where you're thinking about efficiency, or perl starts to core dump > with frightening regularity, revisit your use of eval. > > - billn > Well, actually I've been using the code for several years now. No core dumps. I just had reason to look at it again, realized what was happening, and wondered how it worked. > On Mon, 7 Aug 2006, Douglas E. Miles wrote: > >> Hey all! >> >> I'm having fun hacking Perl for a change, and I just realized I'd been >> using a feature that I don't completely understand. man perlfunc says >> this about eval: >> >> In the first form, the return value of EXPR is parsed and exe- >> cuted as if it were a little Perl program. The value of the >> expression (which is itself determined within scalar context) >> is first parsed, and if there weren't any errors, executed in >> the lexical context of the current Perl program, so that any >> variable settings or subroutine and format definitions remain >> afterwards. >> >> This means that in my code below, that $bar is in scope within the >> eval. What blows me away is that $foo::foo is also in scope because of >> the "package foo" statement in $eval_string. Does anyone know how perl >> accesses both namespaces simultaneously without specifying the namespace >> in each variable name. Feel free to laugh at me if I'm missing >> something basic. :) The cool thing is that this behavior is exactly >> what I need. I'd just like to understand how it works (and hope that it >> isn't a misfeature that might be removed in the future). Thanks! >> >> >> #!/usr/bin/perl >> >> package foo; >> >> $foo = "FOO!"; >> >> package bar; >> >> my $bar = "BAR!"; >> >> my $perl_code = 'print "$bar $foo\n"'; >> print "$perl_code\n"; >> >> my $eval_string = "package foo;\n$perl_code"; >> eval $eval_string; >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phoenix-pm mailing list >> Phoenix-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm >> From perlguy at earthlink.net Mon Aug 7 19:42:21 2006 From: perlguy at earthlink.net (Douglas E. Miles) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:42:21 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Eval Namespace Question In-Reply-To: <20060807220850.GQ29588@illogics.org> References: <44D7A9AC.6000809@earthlink.net> <20060807220850.GQ29588@illogics.org> Message-ID: <44D7FA0D.5020204@earthlink.net> Scott Walters wrote: >Hi Doug, > >So, what *have* you been up to? > >Don't use eval on a string. eval { } is fine to use and you should be >trapping errors, and that's how that's done. 99% of the time people use >eval on a string, they're trying to hammer in a screw. > > > I'm evaling a string because that's what I have. :) I might be hammering a screw, but it's been working fine for several years. I wrote the code knowing "Caveat Emptor". The real code is trapping errors. I just made the smallest example that illustrated the behavior I was wondering about. As far as what I've been up to, unfortunately, mostly ASP. The Perl is cleansing me. :) >>This means that in my code below, that $bar is in scope within the >>eval. What blows me away is that $foo::foo is also in scope because of >>the "package foo" statement in $eval_string. Does anyone know how perl >> >>#!/usr/bin/perl >>package foo; >> >> > >Use strict and warnings. > > > >>$foo = "FOO!"; >> >> > > > >>package bar; >>my $bar = "BAR!"; >>my $perl_code = 'print "$bar $foo\n"'; >>print "$perl_code\n"; >> >>my $eval_string = "package foo;\n$perl_code"; >>eval $eval_string; >> >> > >To answer your actual question, variables created (defined implicitly or explicitly) >at the "top level" (outside of any blocks) have a scope called "file scope", where >they're in scope until the end of the file. This would work with my $foo too. >Sometimes people do this to get less scope than file scope: > >package foo; { > my $foo = "FOO!"; >} > >package bar; { > ... >} > >There are other derivitives of out. > >Now, here's what you *should* be writing to avoid a plague of security and >performance problems too numerous to enumerate and too pervasive to ignore >the shame they've brought upon us all: > >package foo; >use strict; >use warnings; >my $foo = "FOO!"; > >package bar; ># note that strict and warnings also have file scope >my $bar = "BAR!": >my $perl_code = sub { print "$bar $foo\n"; }; >$perl_code->(); # note that you could pass arguments > >In this adaptation, you can't easily modify the code by prepending things >like "package foo;", but dataflow is an entire other question. Rather than >changing packages that code evaluates in, you should be passing objects in, >and the object should encapsulate the set of values. Also, with code references, >if the code reference references some variable (such as $foo and $bar), if >the value of $foo or $bar changes (the *same* $foo or $bar, not one >created later or in a different scope) then the value that gets printed >also changes. > >So... > >1. use code references instead of eval >2. use object instances rather than packages full of global values >3. when you want a global of some sort, use the constant module... use constant foo => 'FOO!'; >4. report to the list more often and tell us how your life is going > and what you're up to, for chrissakes! > >As far as the "use objects" spiel... I'm assuming the worst, so forgive me for that, but >in my experience, the not-so-bad-scenario can usually be considered to be similar enough >to the bad scenario that the refactoring/best practice/design heuristic/whatever >still applies. Computing package names on the fly invokes fear and dread for good >reason and should only be used to intentionally voke fear and dread. Etc, etc, etc. > >Glad to see you're still alive, Doug. > >-scott > > > > > >>_______________________________________________ >>Phoenix-pm mailing list >>Phoenix-pm at pm.org >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm >> >> From scott at illogics.org Tue Aug 8 09:37:25 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:37:25 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Perl web application programmer with DBI skills (telecommute), India, AP, Hyderabad Message-ID: <20060808163725.GR29588@illogics.org> Another month, another telecommute job in India... ----- Forwarded message from Perl Jobs ----- From: Perl Jobs To: jobs at perl.org Message-Id: <20060808105326.A50392AFD8 at x3.develooper.com> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 03:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Perl Jobs] Perl web application programmer with DBI skills (telecommute), India, AP, Hyderabad Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/4465 To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe at perl.org. To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe at perl.org. Posted: August 7, 2006 Job title: Perl web application programmer with DBI skills Company name: Phonestack Technologies Pvt Lt. Location: India, AP, Hyderabad Pay rate: Rs, 25000 per month Travel: 0% Terms of employment: Salaried employee Hours: Full time Onsite: no Description: Phonestack works on cutting edge web-based voip technology that is open standards and free source based (GPL-ed). We are looking for someone to take independent charge of building server side for our voip services in Perl under LAMP Required skills: Perl vi make config cgi dbi xhtml javascript Desired skills: communications, database design, ruby, python URL for more information: http://phonestack.com/ Contact information at: http://jobs.perl.org/job/4465#contact ----- End forwarded message ----- From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Tue Aug 8 10:03:27 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 10:03:27 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] In town Sun, Mon In-Reply-To: <44D7AB6E.3030204@earthlink.net> References: <44D7AB6E.3030204@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20060808170327.GJ23129@thelackthereof.org> On 2006.08.07.14.06, Douglas E. Miles wrote: | Michael Friedman wrote: | | >Well, since it's 5 pm and Scott hasn't responded, I think we should | >go ahead with Steve's Espresso at 7 or so, since that was the last | >settled plan. | > | >If Scott comes back and Nathan, Darrin, and Scott decide on somewhere | >else, someone call my cell phone and let me know. 480-209-9367. | > | >Otherwise, I'll see anyone at Steve's. | > | >-- Mike | > | > | > | Sorry I missed you Mike! Hope you guys had fun. Hey could y'all give me a run down of the event? How many came, how was it, etc. I'm slowly working up a plan for our next meeting! --Brock From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Tue Aug 8 10:32:06 2006 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 10:32:06 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] In town Sun, Mon In-Reply-To: <20060808170327.GJ23129@thelackthereof.org> References: <44D7AB6E.3030204@earthlink.net> <20060808170327.GJ23129@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <7B904FD3-C26B-4535-BD09-4EF5DDAFB363@highwire.stanford.edu> It was Bill, Nathan, and I. There was no presentation, but we did discuss testing a bit, along with the usual social topics: the history of computers, why Python & Ruby are eating Perl's lunch, Perl 6, how our jobs are difficult, etc. Steve's Espresso is a great place for a meeting. We were almost the only people there, they have plenty of tables, free wi-fi, and the guy at the counter didn't make any attempt to quiet us or tell us to go away. The background music was nice, *quiet*, and unobtrusive. There's plenty of free parking, too... unlike Mill's End. ;-) I wish I'd had more time to see everyone while I was in town, but I was glad to see Bill again and to meet Nathan. I hope I'll catch the rest of you another time! -- Mike On Aug 8, 2006, at 10:03 AM, Brock wrote: > On 2006.08.07.14.06, Douglas E. Miles wrote: > | Michael Friedman wrote: > | > | >Well, since it's 5 pm and Scott hasn't responded, I think we should > | >go ahead with Steve's Espresso at 7 or so, since that was the last > | >settled plan. > | > > | >If Scott comes back and Nathan, Darrin, and Scott decide on > somewhere > | >else, someone call my cell phone and let me know. 480-209-9367. > | > > | >Otherwise, I'll see anyone at Steve's. > | > > | >-- Mike > | > > | > > | > > | Sorry I missed you Mike! Hope you guys had fun. > > > Hey could y'all give me a run down of the event? How many came, how > was > it, etc. > > I'm slowly working up a plan for our next meeting! > > --Brock > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm --------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Friedman HighWire Press Phone: 650-725-1974 Stanford University FAX: 270-721-8034 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From andypm at exiledplanet.org Tue Aug 8 17:14:34 2006 From: andypm at exiledplanet.org (Andrew Johnson) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:14:34 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Perl web application programmer with DBI skills (telecommute), India, AP, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <20060808163725.GR29588@illogics.org> References: <20060808163725.GR29588@illogics.org> Message-ID: Well, at today's exchange rate ($1 = INR 46.47), that works out to ~$538/month, or ~$6456/year. If you're going to telecommute from the States, it's slave labor. If you're going to telecommute from the 3rd world, you might become rich. Then again, your version of "rich" may include things like "sanitary water" and "indoor plumbing." [aj] On 8/8/06, Scott Walters wrote: > > Another month, another telecommute job in India... > > ----- Forwarded message from Perl Jobs ----- > > From: Perl Jobs > To: jobs at perl.org > Message-Id: <20060808105326.A50392AFD8 at x3.develooper.com> > Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 03:53:26 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: [Perl Jobs] Perl web application programmer with DBI skills > (telecommute), India, AP, Hyderabad > > Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/4465 > > To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe at perl.org. > To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe at perl.org. > > Posted: August 7, 2006 > > Job title: > Perl web application programmer with DBI skills > > Company name: Phonestack Technologies Pvt Lt. > > Location: India, AP, Hyderabad > > Pay rate: Rs, 25000 per month > > Travel: 0% > > Terms of employment: Salaried employee > > Hours: Full time > > Onsite: no > > Description: > Phonestack works on cutting edge web-based voip technology that is open > standards and free source based (GPL-ed). We are looking for someone to > take independent charge of building server side for our voip services in > Perl under LAMP > > Required skills: > Perl vi make config cgi dbi xhtml javascript > > Desired skills: > communications, database design, ruby, python > > URL for more information: http://phonestack.com/ > > Contact information at: > http://jobs.perl.org/job/4465#contact > > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/phoenix-pm/attachments/20060808/641f7ec7/attachment.html From bginter at ndevtech.net Tue Aug 8 17:27:39 2006 From: bginter at ndevtech.net (Benjamin R. Ginter) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:27:39 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Perl web application programmer with DBI skills (telecommute), India, AP, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: References: <20060808163725.GR29588@illogics.org> Message-ID: Andy, That's exactly what I did. Figured those were indian rupees and plugged into xe.com; that's really nothing for a full time position. Would have been interesting as a part time position, provided you speak hindi. :) Speaking of jobs, a position at nDev has opened up. I'm moving up to Washington around Colville/Republic in early September.. see my posting in a few minutes if you are interested or know someone in the Phoenix area who might be. I'd like to get someone in here asap for some extreme training. It's a gravy, dream job for anyone who likes open source software and perl. I just can't stand Phoenix anymore and am cashing in on my house and moving on to paradise. Regards, Ben On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, Andrew Johnson wrote: > Well, at today's exchange rate ($1 = INR 46.47), that works out to > ~$538/month, or ~$6456/year. If you're going to telecommute from the > States, it's slave labor. If you're going to telecommute from the 3rd > world, you might become rich. Then again, your version of "rich" may > include things like "sanitary water" and "indoor plumbing." > > [aj] > From bginter at ndevtech.net Tue Aug 8 17:46:38 2006 From: bginter at ndevtech.net (Benjamin R. Ginter) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:46:38 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [job] Linux Admin w/ Perl/PHP Programming Message-ID: This is a junior to full version of my current position. I will be providing continuing remote consulting services to bring the successful candidate up to mastery of our systems and to make sure our customers are not negatively impacted. I submitted a three week notice last week. I would like to encourage anyone who thinks this is well suited for them to submit a resume. Don't let a sendmail handicap or whatever scare you away. Most of the configs are very straightforward, howto kind of stuff. Rote memorization isn't a requirement -- just the ability to find the answers if you don't know. If you are a Perl whiz, that's a huge bonus and you'll be a shoe-in. Even if your Perl skills are weak but you have a desire to improve, here's your chance to learn on the job. If you have no Perl skills but know another language well and are willing to learn Perl, that will also work. This is a great environment with flexibility, good benefits, and friendly, laid-back atmosphere with dimmed lighting at my desk. I've been here since June 13, 2001 and I would not otherwise give this job up but I'm making a philosophical lifestyle choice. Benjamin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linux Admin w/ Perl/PHP Programming nDev Technologies, Inc. is an established software development and consulting company located in North Phoenix near the MetroCenter. We are currently seeking a full-time Linux Administrator with Perl and/or PHP programming experience. We are immediately hiring a qualified candidate with all of the following skills: - Linux administration - Basic LAN/WAN troubleshooting - PostgreSQL (strong MySQL ok if willing to learn PGSQL) - Perl Programming (OOP background helpful) - PHP Programming (PHP4+) The successful candidate should have experience configuring and maintaining open source software packages such as Apache, Bind, and Sendmail. Experience with mod_perl a plus. This is a dream job for fans of open-source software. We use CVS, Bugzilla, Apache, Sendmail, Bind, PHP, mod_ssl, ProFTPD/wuftpd, iptables/ipchains and primarily utilize Debian Linux with some minor maintenance of customer owned RedHat Enterprise Linux and Cobalt RAQ systems. A background in Perl or another language is desired. Candidate should be a punctual self-starter with the ability to communicate effectively and professionally with customers when required. nDev Technologies maintains servers and software for Lariat Software, LLC. who develops and markets a web-based debt collections software for both standalone and ASP deployments. The candidate employee will be responsible for maintaining production servers in a half-rack at the Tempe LimeLight colocation facility for Lariat-ASP customers. Current uptimes exceed 500 days. Fax or e-mail your resume today. This opportunity will not last. Title : Programmer/Analyst Benefits : Full Medical/Dental/401k Location : 9201 N. 25th Ave, Suite 260, Phoenix, AZ 85021 Pay Range : 38k-43k DOE Principals only! No recruiters or agencies. nDev Technologies, Inc. 9201 N. 25th Ave., Suite 260 Phoenix, AZ 85021 Phone: 602-749-9933 Fax: 602-749-9966 From scott at illogics.org Tue Aug 8 17:59:55 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 00:59:55 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Perl web application programmer with DBI skills (telecommute), India, AP, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: References: <20060808163725.GR29588@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060809005955.GV29588@illogics.org> Okay, okay, I didn't do my homework (as usual), but I swear there were some slighly more passable ones in the, er, past. -scott On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > > Well, at today's exchange rate ($1 = INR 46.47), that works out to > ~$538/month, or ~$6456/year. If you're going to telecommute from the > States, it's slave labor. If you're going to telecommute from the 3rd > world, you might become rich. Then again, your version of "rich" may > include things like "sanitary water" and "indoor plumbing." > [aj] > > On 8/8/06, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > Another month, another telecommute job in India... > ----- Forwarded message from Perl Jobs <[2]jobs-admin at perl.org> > ----- > From: Perl Jobs <[3] jobs-admin at perl.org> > To: [4]jobs at perl.org > Message-Id: <[5]20060808105326.A50392AFD8 at x3.develooper.com> > Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 03:53:26 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: [Perl Jobs] Perl web application programmer with DBI > skills (telecommute), India, AP, Hyderabad > Online URL for this job: [6]http://jobs.perl.org/job/4465 > To subscribe to this list, send mail to [7]jobs-subscribe at perl.org. > To unsubscribe, send mail to [8]jobs-unsubscribe at perl.org. > Posted: August 7, 2006 > Job title: > Perl web application programmer with DBI skills > Company name: Phonestack Technologies Pvt Lt. > Location: India, AP, Hyderabad > Pay rate: Rs, 25000 per month > Travel: 0% > Terms of employment: Salaried employee > Hours: Full time > Onsite: no > Description: > Phonestack works on cutting edge web-based voip technology that is > open > standards and free source based (GPL-ed). We are looking for > someone to > take independent charge of building server side for our voip > services in > Perl under LAMP > Required skills: > Perl vi make config cgi dbi xhtml javascript > Desired skills: > communications, database design, ruby, python > URL for more information: [9]http://phonestack.com/ > Contact information at: > [10]http://jobs.perl.org/job/4465#contact > ----- End forwarded message ----- > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > [11]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > [12]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > References > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > 2. mailto:jobs-admin at perl.org > 3. mailto:jobs-admin at perl.org > 4. mailto:jobs at perl.org > 5. mailto:20060808105326.A50392AFD8 at x3.develooper.com > 6. http://jobs.perl.org/job/4465 > 7. mailto:jobs-subscribe at perl.org > 8. mailto:jobs-unsubscribe at perl.org > 9. http://phonestack.com/ > 10. http://jobs.perl.org/job/4465#contact > 11. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > 12. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From dwchandler at stilyagin.com Tue Aug 8 18:33:15 2006 From: dwchandler at stilyagin.com (Darrin Chandler) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 18:33:15 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [job] Linux Admin w/ Perl/PHP Programming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060809013315.GC22986@jeeves.stilyagin.local> On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 05:46:38PM -0700, Benjamin R. Ginter wrote: > > This is a great environment with flexibility, good benefits, and friendly, > laid-back atmosphere with dimmed lighting at my desk. I've been here > since June 13, 2001 and I would not otherwise give this job up but I'm > making a philosophical lifestyle choice. I'm curious, gk. What's the lifestyle choice you're making? -- Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group dwchandler at stilyagin.com | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ http://www.stilyagin.com/ | From dwchandler at stilyagin.com Tue Aug 8 18:37:32 2006 From: dwchandler at stilyagin.com (Darrin Chandler) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 18:37:32 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Perl web application programmer with DBI skills (telecommute), India, AP, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: References: <20060808163725.GR29588@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060809013732.GD22986@jeeves.stilyagin.local> On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 05:27:39PM -0700, Benjamin R. Ginter wrote: > > Speaking of jobs, a position at nDev has opened up. I'm moving up to > Washington around Colville/Republic in early September.. see my posting in > a few minutes if you are interested or know someone in the Phoenix area > who might be. Do you mind if I forward this to other local groups like the Linux and BSD groups? -- Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group dwchandler at stilyagin.com | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ http://www.stilyagin.com/ | From bginter at ndevtech.net Tue Aug 8 18:39:34 2006 From: bginter at ndevtech.net (Benjamin R. Ginter) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 18:39:34 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Perl web application programmer with DBI skills (telecommute), India, AP, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <20060809013732.GD22986@jeeves.stilyagin.local> References: <20060808163725.GR29588@illogics.org> <20060809013732.GD22986@jeeves.stilyagin.local> Message-ID: Please feel free to repost. Ben On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, Darrin Chandler wrote: > On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 05:27:39PM -0700, Benjamin R. Ginter wrote: >> >> Speaking of jobs, a position at nDev has opened up. I'm moving up to >> Washington around Colville/Republic in early September.. see my posting in >> a few minutes if you are interested or know someone in the Phoenix area >> who might be. > > Do you mind if I forward this to other local groups like the Linux and > BSD groups? > > -- > Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group > dwchandler at stilyagin.com | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ > http://www.stilyagin.com/ | > From bginter at ndevtech.net Wed Aug 9 15:57:43 2006 From: bginter at ndevtech.net (Benjamin R. Ginter) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 15:57:43 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [job] Linux Admin w/ Perl/PHP Programming In-Reply-To: <20060809013315.GC22986@jeeves.stilyagin.local> References: <20060809013315.GC22986@jeeves.stilyagin.local> Message-ID: I'm just leaving the big city for a slower pace of life in the country, possibly offgrid or doing cogeneration. Sort of my own personal Walden and at the same time a hedge against increasing uncertainty in the world. Wow, no one has called me Genghis Khan in a long, long time... Cheers, Benjamin >> This is a great environment with flexibility, good benefits, and friendly, >> laid-back atmosphere with dimmed lighting at my desk. I've been here >> since June 13, 2001 and I would not otherwise give this job up but I'm >> making a philosophical lifestyle choice. > > I'm curious, gk. What's the lifestyle choice you're making? From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Wed Aug 9 16:12:40 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 16:12:40 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [job] Linux Admin w/ Perl/PHP Programming In-Reply-To: References: <20060809013315.GC22986@jeeves.stilyagin.local> Message-ID: <20060809231240.GM23129@thelackthereof.org> Neat. If you have offgrid-internet feel free to drop us a line and tell us how it's going :) --Brock On 2006.08.09.15.57, Benjamin R. Ginter wrote: | I'm just leaving the big city for a slower pace of life in the country, | possibly offgrid or doing cogeneration. Sort of my own personal Walden | and at the same time a hedge against increasing uncertainty in the world. | | Wow, no one has called me Genghis Khan in a long, long time... | | Cheers, | | Benjamin | | >> This is a great environment with flexibility, good benefits, and friendly, | >> laid-back atmosphere with dimmed lighting at my desk. I've been here | >> since June 13, 2001 and I would not otherwise give this job up but I'm | >> making a philosophical lifestyle choice. | > | > I'm curious, gk. What's the lifestyle choice you're making? | _______________________________________________ | Phoenix-pm mailing list | Phoenix-pm at pm.org | http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From bginter at ndevtech.net Wed Aug 9 16:36:04 2006 From: bginter at ndevtech.net (Benjamin R. Ginter) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 16:36:04 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [job] Linux Admin w/ Perl/PHP Programming In-Reply-To: <20060809231240.GM23129@thelackthereof.org> References: <20060809013315.GC22986@jeeves.stilyagin.local> <20060809231240.GM23129@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: Brock, I've been looking at WildBlue who offers broadband speeds using two-way offset paraboloid satellite dishes. Some forum posts have indicated that the latency is still fairly poor, in the 200-250ms range. I guess the satellite is at 22k miles or something for geosynchronous orbit and light can only go so fast. Near Colville, Qwest does offer DSL and another provider offers point to point links via microwave with line of sight to their antennas/repeaters. I've heard Hughes has a business-class satellite service that some doctors are using for critical telepresence applications that would seem to require lower delays. Since 200ms is fairly useless for interactive shells, any other providers you or the other readers may be aware of would be of interest to me. Otherwise, I might have to start getting creative with passive waveguides or smth. Hell, maybe I should just launch some instrument laden weather balloons and start my own ISP! Who says the glory days are over? :) Ben On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, Brock wrote: > Neat. If you have offgrid-internet feel free to drop us a line and tell > us how it's going :) From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Wed Aug 9 17:08:03 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 17:08:03 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [job] Linux Admin w/ Perl/PHP Programming In-Reply-To: References: <20060809013315.GC22986@jeeves.stilyagin.local> <20060809231240.GM23129@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20060810000803.GO23129@thelackthereof.org> I vote for the balloons! You could maybe look into getting a WiMax license... Too bad you aren't a bit further south, you could get on with these folks: http://www.columbiarea.com/programs/internet.php --Brock On 2006.08.09.16.36, Benjamin R. Ginter wrote: | Brock, | | I've been looking at WildBlue who offers broadband speeds using two-way | offset paraboloid satellite dishes. Some forum posts have indicated that | the latency is still fairly poor, in the 200-250ms range. I guess the | satellite is at 22k miles or something for geosynchronous orbit and light | can only go so fast. | | Near Colville, Qwest does offer DSL and another provider offers point to | point links via microwave with line of sight to their antennas/repeaters. | I've heard Hughes has a business-class satellite service that some doctors | are using for critical telepresence applications that would seem to | require lower delays. | | Since 200ms is fairly useless for interactive shells, any other providers | you or the other readers may be aware of would be of interest to me. | Otherwise, I might have to start getting creative with passive waveguides | or smth. Hell, maybe I should just launch some instrument laden weather | balloons and start my own ISP! Who says the glory days are over? :) | | Ben | | On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, Brock wrote: | | >Neat. If you have offgrid-internet feel free to drop us a line and tell | >us how it's going :) From bwmetz at att.com Wed Aug 9 17:49:02 2006 From: bwmetz at att.com (Metz, Bobby W, WWCS) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 19:49:02 -0500 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [job] Linux Admin w/ Perl/PHP Programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B3457690473367023FC1D7@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> Sounds about right...I used to use DirecPC back in the day when fair use policies were being challenged in court, uploads were terrestrial & you could actually get unlimited nighttime access for a mere $30 and I remember the delay was more like 450ms, but why guess. Google calc searches makes it easy. Geosynch orbit is 35,786 kilometers = 22,236.3895 miles speed of light in miles/ms = 186.282397 miles / millisecond 22,236.3895 miles / 186.282397 miles / millisecond = 119.3692 ms Total one-way delay = 119.3692 ms * 2 = 238.7384 ms Total two-way delay = 238.7384 * 2 = 477.4769 ms I used to think the terrestrial upload and older equipment years ago really took a toll on those round trip ping times but maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought in comparison to above. It'd be very interesting to see someone's ping responses that has one of these services to see how the estimates stack up. I wonder if the gateways are in the satelites now and not @ the ground station like in the 90's. If so that could provide really inaccurate ping times if testing to your gateway IP. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org [mailto:phoenix-pm-bounces+bwmetz=att.com at pm.org]On Behalf Of Benjamin R. Ginter Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 4:36 PM To: Brock Cc: Phoenix.pm Subject: Re: [Phoenix-pm] [job] Linux Admin w/ Perl/PHP Programming Brock, I've been looking at WildBlue who offers broadband speeds using two-way offset paraboloid satellite dishes. Some forum posts have indicated that the latency is still fairly poor, in the 200-250ms range. I guess the satellite is at 22k miles or something for geosynchronous orbit and light can only go so fast. Near Colville, Qwest does offer DSL and another provider offers point to point links via microwave with line of sight to their antennas/repeaters. I've heard Hughes has a business-class satellite service that some doctors are using for critical telepresence applications that would seem to require lower delays. Since 200ms is fairly useless for interactive shells, any other providers you or the other readers may be aware of would be of interest to me. Otherwise, I might have to start getting creative with passive waveguides or smth. Hell, maybe I should just launch some instrument laden weather balloons and start my own ISP! Who says the glory days are over? :) Ben On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, Brock wrote: > Neat. If you have offgrid-internet feel free to drop us a line and tell > us how it's going :) _______________________________________________ Phoenix-pm mailing list Phoenix-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From phx-pm-list at grueslayer.com Thu Aug 10 07:07:32 2006 From: phx-pm-list at grueslayer.com (David A. Sinck) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 07:07:32 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [job] Linux Admin w/ Perl/PHP Programming References: <01D5341D04A2E64AB9B3457690473367023FC1D7@OCCLUST01EVS1.ugd.att.com> Message-ID: <17627.15780.239259.824246@magnitude.grueslayer.com> \_ SMTP quoth Metz, Bobby W, WWCS on 8/9/2006 19:49 as having spake thusly: \_ \_ Total two-way delay = 238.7384 * 2 = 477.4769 ms Anyone else have the response of 'back in the old days we were happy with .5s lag'? I remember being 20+ chars into the local terminal's typeahead buffer and correcting typos that hadn't even been echoed yet. That really bothered a lot of people for some reason. :-) :w ^Z%s (load 'my_schemefile.pl^h^hs) (my_main_routine) Then check lag: ah, vi is still thinking about :w, time to go get some fresh air. Cheers, David From scott at illogics.org Tue Aug 15 09:12:52 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:12:52 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl 5.9.4 is out Message-ID: <20060815161252.GN29588@illogics.org> Of course, perldeltas always make for good PM presentations. Brock, when's the next meeting? -scott ----- Forwarded message from Rafael Garcia-Suarez ----- From: Rafael Garcia-Suarez To: perl5-porters at perl.org Subject: Perl 5.9.4 is out Perl 5.9.4, the latest development release of Perl 5, is currently propagating to CPAN. Here are the administrative details: file: $CPAN/authors/id/R/RG/RGARCIA/perl-5.9.4.tar.gz size: 14298383 bytes md5: a98e0af9f221362227c813bff69e4e91 For what's new, see the perl594delta man page. For what's left for 5.10.0, see the perltodo man page. Many thanks to all those who have contributed. ----- End forwarded message ----- From andypm at exiledplanet.org Tue Aug 15 10:38:49 2006 From: andypm at exiledplanet.org (Andrew Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:38:49 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Perl 5.9.4 is out In-Reply-To: <20060815161252.GN29588@illogics.org> References: <20060815161252.GN29588@illogics.org> Message-ID: There are several new features that have been added to the 5.9.x series. It would be interesting to discuss some of the new things available. [aj] On 8/15/06, Scott Walters wrote: > > Of course, perldeltas always make for good PM presentations. Brock, > when's > the next meeting? > > -scott > > ----- Forwarded message from Rafael Garcia-Suarez > ----- > > From: Rafael Garcia-Suarez > To: perl5-porters at perl.org > Subject: Perl 5.9.4 is out > > Perl 5.9.4, the latest development release of Perl 5, is currently > propagating to CPAN. Here are the administrative details: > > file: $CPAN/authors/id/R/RG/RGARCIA/perl-5.9.4.tar.gz > size: 14298383 bytes > md5: a98e0af9f221362227c813bff69e4e91 > > For what's new, see the perl594delta man page. > For what's left for 5.10.0, see the perltodo man page. > Many thanks to all those who have contributed. > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/phoenix-pm/attachments/20060815/f3947fde/attachment.html From ben at benatkin.com Tue Aug 22 15:04:20 2006 From: ben at benatkin.com (Ben Atkin) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:04:20 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Andy Lester to Phoenix for "Technical Debt" talk In-Reply-To: <20060702053813.GY29588@illogics.org> References: <20060702053813.GY29588@illogics.org> Message-ID: <5004c9f90608221504u2f80e38ew2a54b05e016f6fa4@mail.gmail.com> I'm in for $20 as well. I just got a job in Fountain Hills and moved into a place in Fountain Hills, only a mile and a half from work. When Scott originally sent the e-mail I was living in Flagstaff and job hunting, so I didn't commit for those two reasons... BTW, when's the next meeting? Ben On 7/1/06, Scott Walters wrote: > > Hi Perl Mongers, > > If we're willing to pay airfare, we can get well-known Perl personalities > as > speakers. In the past, we've had Randal Schwartz out of luck and Dan > Sugalski > as part of the Perl 6 world tour, but if we get about 17 people to pony up > $20, we can do fun things like this a lot more often. Andy Lester has > already > offered to come out. Andy Lester did a "Get out of Technical Debt" talk > at > YAPC. There's a description at > http://www.yapcchicago.org/the-schedule/monday/m-abstracts#em1420 . > That's the talk we'd probably get. > > Andy Lester wrote WWW::Mechanize and _Pro Perl Debugging_ for APress. > > Here's what I want: Respond with a "me too" if you're willing to commit a > $20 to flying in a speaker and Brock and I (hi Brock) will handle the > rest. > Consider asking your employer to sponser part of the cost, too -- > especially > if an employer is willing to pay for hotel, we'll have a much more > attractive > proposition. > > -scott > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > -- Ben Atkin ben at benatkin.com http://www.benatkin.com/ (928) 380-0656 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/phoenix-pm/attachments/20060822/b5666472/attachment.html From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Tue Aug 22 15:19:43 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:19:43 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Andy Lester to Phoenix for "Technical Debt" talk In-Reply-To: <5004c9f90608221504u2f80e38ew2a54b05e016f6fa4@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060702053813.GY29588@illogics.org> <5004c9f90608221504u2f80e38ew2a54b05e016f6fa4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060822221943.GD6484@thelackthereof.org> On 2006.08.22.15.04, Ben Atkin wrote: | I'm in for $20 as well. Awesome | I just got a job in Fountain Hills and moved into a place in Fountain Hills, | only a mile and a half from work. When Scott originally sent the e-mail I was | living in Flagstaff and job hunting, so I didn't commit for those two | reasons... Velcome. | BTW, when's the next meeting? Good question. Lets see here... September 7th, 2006 is our next meeting. WHERE is our next meeting is an even better question. I'll get back to you on that one (Mill's End has worked, but I'll also check on SCC). --Brock From scott at illogics.org Wed Aug 23 12:16:03 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:16:03 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Andy Lester to Phoenix for "Technical Debt" talk In-Reply-To: <5004c9f90608221504u2f80e38ew2a54b05e016f6fa4@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060702053813.GY29588@illogics.org> <5004c9f90608221504u2f80e38ew2a54b05e016f6fa4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060823191603.GL29588@illogics.org> Ben, Congraduations on the move here! I think you emailed me about it a while ago and I can't remember if I responded... I'm often pummeled with email during the day or please pardon me if I tagged it and then never got back to it. There's a technical publishing company here, and embeddedarm.com (where a friend of mine works), and that's about it for tech jobs, so I'm curious to hear what you came up with. If you're working at embeddedarm.com, tell Michael S. hi for me. Now, as for places to eat, the pizza place on the corner of Shea and Suguaro (behind the gas station) is good (family owned); there's a cute sushi place on Suguaro (Sukora Inn, I think it is, look for the little car dealership); the Italian place by Goodwill on Palasades is supposed to be completely authenticate and great but I haven't gotten there yet; Jimmy's Crazy Greek isn't bad at all (off of Fountain Hills Blvd going North out of town, east at the middleschool there); Denny's is 24 hours which can be handy; and I'm quite often at Que Bueno which is at the west end of Avenue of the Fountains west off of Sugauro. All of the other Italian places suck and there are legions of them. Though I guess that one by the fountain isn't bad. And most of the other resturants here are way overpriced and only passably good. Though Caroline's is supposed to be actually good for upscale stuff, even though upscale dining here is a lark, for the most part. The Radio Shack is by Bashas on Palisades, there's a health food store on Avenue of the Fountains (if you're into that sort of thing), and all of the bars are either parts of upscale, way overpriced resturants where the Martinis cost $16 or else are redneck bars. Sheriff Joe lives here and often has his men pull over *everyone* for *any* reason. It's mostly old people here and you'll notice that they run the political scene and ruin a lot of us younger people's fun. Cheers, -scott On 0, Ben Atkin wrote: > > I'm in for $20 as well. > I just got a job in Fountain Hills and moved into a place in Fountain > Hills, only a mile and a half from work. When Scott originally sent > the e-mail I was living in Flagstaff and job hunting, so I didn't > commit for those two reasons... > BTW, when's the next meeting? > Ben > > On 7/1/06, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > Hi Perl Mongers, > If we're willing to pay airfare, we can get well-known Perl > personalities as > speakers. In the past, we've had Randal Schwartz out of luck and > Dan Sugalski > as part of the Perl 6 world tour, but if we get about 17 people to > pony up > $20, we can do fun things like this a lot more often. Andy Lester > has already > offered to come out. Andy Lester did a "Get out of Technical Debt" > talk at > YAPC. There's a description at > [2]http://www.yapcchicago.org/the-schedule/monday/m-abstracts#em142 > 0 . > That's the talk we'd probably get. > Andy Lester wrote WWW::Mechanize and _Pro Perl Debugging_ for > APress. > Here's what I want: Respond with a "me too" if you're willing to > commit a > $20 to flying in a speaker and Brock and I (hi Brock) will handle > the rest. > Consider asking your employer to sponser part of the cost, too -- > especially > if an employer is willing to pay for hotel, we'll have a much more > attractive > proposition. > -scott > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > -- > Ben Atkin > [5]ben at benatkin.com > [6]http://www.benatkin.com/ > (928) 380-0656 > > References > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > 2. http://www.yapcchicago.org/the-schedule/monday/m-abstracts#em1420 > 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > 5. mailto:ben at benatkin.com > 6. http://www.benatkin.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Wed Aug 23 12:19:48 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:19:48 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Next Meeting/Andy Lester In-Reply-To: <20060822221943.GD6484@thelackthereof.org> References: <20060702053813.GY29588@illogics.org> <5004c9f90608221504u2f80e38ew2a54b05e016f6fa4@mail.gmail.com> <20060822221943.GD6484@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20060823191947.GM29588@illogics.org> Let's do downtown Phoenix or North Scottsdale again and get the people out who are pent up but don't want to drive. Turn outs in Tempe have been not-bad, but I want to see different people there. My two cents. Anyway, I count $240 pledged to the fund. One or two more people and I'll start pricing airline tickets to see if we're there or how far we are from there. Cheers, -scott On 0, Brock wrote: > > > On 2006.08.22.15.04, Ben Atkin wrote: > | I'm in for $20 as well. > > Awesome > > | I just got a job in Fountain Hills and moved into a place in Fountain Hills, > | only a mile and a half from work. When Scott originally sent the e-mail I was > | living in Flagstaff and job hunting, so I didn't commit for those two > | reasons... > > Velcome. > > | BTW, when's the next meeting? > > Good question. Lets see here... > > September 7th, 2006 is our next meeting. WHERE is our next meeting is an > even better question. I'll get back to you on that one (Mill's End has > worked, but I'll also check on SCC). > > --Brock > > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at illogics.org Thu Aug 24 11:51:37 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:51:37 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] few notes on meetings and activities, mostly for Brock In-Reply-To: <20060810000803.GO23129@thelackthereof.org> References: <20060809013315.GC22986@jeeves.stilyagin.local> <20060809231240.GM23129@thelackthereof.org> <20060810000803.GO23129@thelackthereof.org> Message-ID: <20060824185137.GZ29588@illogics.org> Hi Brock, By my count, we're at $260 on the Andy Lester fund. I'm going to start shopping for tickets pretty quick here (doing too much at once...). Here's a suggestion... let's start doing more activities and fewer meetings. We can declare Jujitsu to be an official Phoenix.PM activity and put it on the calendar ;) http://www.azwado.com And we can do group outings to Roller Derby! http://www.azrollerderby.com/ Cheers, -scott From scott at illogics.org Sun Aug 27 23:05:10 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 06:05:10 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Gartner Connections and Richard Dice Message-ID: <20060828060510.GS29588@illogics.org> Hi everyone, Muahahaha! Richard Dice, host of one of the previous YAPCs, leader of Toronto.PM, and an active member of the Perl community, is expect to be here Sept 27-29. I'd like to call a social meeting in his honor. Also, he wonders, if I have any Gartner connections to help get him into this conference: http://www.gartner.com/2_events/conferences/os2.jsp I don't know whether I do or not -- do I? Cheers, -scott From andypm at exiledplanet.org Mon Aug 28 01:09:01 2006 From: andypm at exiledplanet.org (Andrew Johnson) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:09:01 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Gartner Connections and Richard Dice In-Reply-To: <20060828060510.GS29588@illogics.org> References: <20060828060510.GS29588@illogics.org> Message-ID: Apparently, "Understanding the True Costs" of open source involves paying just shy of $1600 to Gartner. And apparently, you'll get good advice like, "'By 2010, most IT organizations will have formal Open Source management and acquisition strategies.'" Yeah. OK, _I'll_ give away some understanding about the true costs of open source: save $1600 and don't listen to a thing Gartner says, because they don't understand open source. [aj] On 8/27/06, Scott Walters wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Muahahaha! > > Richard Dice, host of one of the previous YAPCs, leader of > Toronto.PM, and an active member of the Perl community, is > expect to be here Sept 27-29. I'd like to call a social > meeting in his honor. Also, he wonders, if I have any > Gartner connections to help get him into this conference: > > http://www.gartner.com/2_events/conferences/os2.jsp > > I don't know whether I do or not -- do I? > > Cheers, > -scott > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/phoenix-pm/attachments/20060828/90215a9e/attachment.html From scott at illogics.org Mon Aug 28 01:58:49 2006 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:58:49 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Gartner Connections and Richard Dice In-Reply-To: References: <20060828060510.GS29588@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060828085848.GU29588@illogics.org> Hey Andrew, Yeah, well, I was going to save all that until after all of the local Gartner people agreed to pull strings for Richard (which seems exceedingly unlikely now that I mention it). For those of you who missed all of the snake oil being sold around 1999, when some stooge gets billed as an "Internet expert", laugh. Out loud. I'm surprised to see that that kind of vague pomp still impresses suits. Your average woodland creature learns lessons more quickler than upper management. We wonder why upper management is "ineffectual" when they don't have any savvy of their own, and they get theirs through proxy through industry trade magazines, mostly owned by CMP, whose columns publish purchased opinions. And through sending out and giving away thousands of free copies of the magazines (the cover price is a joke), they manage to land them on coffee tables in lobbies in every company, where desperete management spots them and snags them. But these shows are a bit more on the level. Rather than just selling their opinions out, they're dispensing placebos for huge amounts of cash. "Form a stragegy" indeed. All of that is to get ineffectual managers doing something that doesn't do any particularly evident harm, sounds plausible, and makes them feel like there isn't nearly so much scary stuff out there they should actually have to know. And of course, none of these presenters present the opinion that technical decisions should be left to technical folks. Disguesting. -scott On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > > Apparently, "Understanding the True Costs" of open source involves > paying just shy of $1600 to Gartner. And apparently, you'll get good > advice like, "'By 2010, most IT organizations will have formal Open > Source management and acquisition strategies.'" Yeah. OK, _I'll_ > give away some understanding about the true costs of open source: > save $1600 and don't listen to a thing Gartner says, because they > don't understand open source. > [aj] > > On 8/27/06, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > Muahahaha! > Richard Dice, host of one of the previous YAPCs, leader of > Toronto.PM, and an active member of the Perl community, is > expect to be here Sept 27-29. I'd like to call a social > meeting in his honor. Also, he wonders, if I have any > Gartner connections to help get him into this conference: > [2]http://www.gartner.com/2_events/conferences/os2.jsp > I don't know whether I do or not -- do I? > Cheers, > -scott > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > References > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > 2. http://www.gartner.com/2_events/conferences/os2.jsp > 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From scott at Mon Aug 28 04:32:59 2006 From: scott at (Scott Walters) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:32:59 +0000 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Gartner Connections and Richard Dice In-Reply-To: References: <20060828060510.GS29588@illogics.org> Message-ID: <20060828113259.GA21165@straylight> Ahh, Richard replied and it makes a bit more sense now. He wants to *speak* and do the imparting of whole formed opinions, specifically in support of Open Source/Free Software. -scott On 0, Andrew Johnson wrote: > > Apparently, "Understanding the True Costs" of open source involves > paying just shy of $1600 to Gartner. And apparently, you'll get good > advice like, "'By 2010, most IT organizations will have formal Open > Source management and acquisition strategies.'" Yeah. OK, _I'll_ > give away some understanding about the true costs of open source: > save $1600 and don't listen to a thing Gartner says, because they > don't understand open source. > [aj] > > On 8/27/06, Scott Walters <[1]scott at illogics.org> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > Muahahaha! > Richard Dice, host of one of the previous YAPCs, leader of > Toronto.PM, and an active member of the Perl community, is > expect to be here Sept 27-29. I'd like to call a social > meeting in his honor. Also, he wonders, if I have any > Gartner connections to help get him into this conference: > [2]http://www.gartner.com/2_events/conferences/os2.jsp > I don't know whether I do or not -- do I? > Cheers, > -scott > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > [3]Phoenix-pm at pm.org > [4]http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > > References > > 1. mailto:scott at illogics.org > 2. http://www.gartner.com/2_events/conferences/os2.jsp > 3. mailto:Phoenix-pm at pm.org > 4. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm > _______________________________________________ > Phoenix-pm mailing list > Phoenix-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/phoenix-pm From wlindley at wlindley.com Mon Aug 28 09:06:40 2006 From: wlindley at wlindley.com (Bill Lindley) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:06:40 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] Gartner Connections and Richard Dice In-Reply-To: <20060828113259.GA21165@straylight> References: <20060828060510.GS29588@illogics.org> <20060828113259.GA21165@straylight> Message-ID: <44F31490.1080606@wlindley.com> >> http://www.gartner.com/2_events/conferences/os2.jsp << for a moment I thought OS/2 might be making a comeback! From awwaiid at thelackthereof.org Tue Aug 29 10:55:45 2006 From: awwaiid at thelackthereof.org (Brock) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:55:45 -0700 Subject: [Phoenix-pm] [andy@petdance.com: [pm_groups] Hackathon Chicago] Message-ID: <20060829175545.GI19157@thelackthereof.org> Our dear friend Andy Lester is putting together a Hackathon in Chicago. Sounds fun! I wanted to have our meeting at the Phoenix Library, but they are re-carpeting their lower floor (during the entire month of september). It would be a great place for when Andy comes and presents though, I think. I'll try and get us a meeting location within the next few days so that you all have plenty of heads-up. --Brock ----- Forwarded message from Andy Lester ----- Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:47:43 -0500 Subject: [pm_groups] Hackathon Chicago From: Andy Lester X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) To: pm_groups at pm.org Howdy to all Perl Mongers. I've just announced the Chicago Hackathon. If y'all would be so kind as to forward to your groups, I'd appreciate it. I've gotten the word out to groups I'm aware of that are local to Chicago, but I know there are plenty of others that might be interested. I'm trying to spin this as a grass-roots PM-type of get-together. Low-key, local, but very valuable. I'd love to have as many other PM groups represented as possible. So far, we have folks from: Ann Arbor and Grand Rapids, Michigan; Toronto; LA; as well as Illinois and Wisconsin "locals". Thanks! xoxo, Andy The Chicago Perl Mongers and The Perl Foundation are proud to announce the Fall 2006 Chicago Hackathon, the weekend of November 10-12, 2006 in suburban Crystal Lake, IL. It will be a round-the- clock weekend of programming on Perl-related projects with your colleagues in the open source community. Dozens of programmers from the open source community in the midwest, as well as others from around the US, will be getting together to share ideas, work on code, and move their Perl-related projects forward. The participants set the agenda for what we'll be working on, but Perl 6 and Parrot are already on the roster of projects. Chip Salzenberg, pumpking for the Parrot project, will be on hand to help with Parrot and Perl 6. Andy Lester will also be driving some Parrot maintenance tasks, and other midwest programmers will be working on their own projects. There's sure to be something interesting for everyone! Participation in the hackathon costs nothing. The Perl Foundation is even providing hotel rooms at a special rate if you want to spend the night. Even if you're in the area for just an hour, stop by, grab a snack or some pizza and talk with other people interested in Perl. You might contribute more than you think just by talking with other programmers. To find out more, visit http://hackathon.info. If you'll be attending, please sign in on the Attendees wiki page, and/or email rsvp at hackathon.info. You can also send questions to Andy Lester at andy at hackathon.info -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance -- Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org pm_groups mailing list pm_groups at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups ----- End forwarded message -----