From vodhner at cox.net Sun Oct 12 17:15:23 2003 From: vodhner at cox.net (Victor Odhner) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: consulting gig Message-ID: <3F89D27B.2020005@cox.net> Please contact Angela directly, not me. Skills: Perl, MySQL, and Linux is good too. Contact: Angela Willfong 480-776-3300 x 105 Angie is a recruiter for Spherion Technology. I (Victor) worked for them for a couple of years and they are a good outfit. (It was previously Interim Technology, and before that it was Computer Power Group.) They are working on a mail filtering job involving Perl, MySQL and Linux. Work would be in their office in the Old Scottsdale area, for about two weeks, and they'd like to start on Monday if possible. They have one person they've imported from another office, working the PHP end, but want another person. Vic From intertwingled at qwest.net Sun Oct 12 17:32:26 2003 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (intertwingled) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: consulting gig In-Reply-To: <3F89D27B.2020005@cox.net> References: <3F89D27B.2020005@cox.net> Message-ID: <3F89D67A.9010100@qwest.net> Bah. Anyway, check out these pics from the groklaw protest at SCO headquarters in Lindon, Utah. http://mirror.lug-nut.com/hall.html I think this one is particularly cute: http://mirror.lug-nut.com/hall/med/dsc00347.jpg I don't think that SCO is ever going to live that pic down. Tony Victor Odhner wrote: > Please contact Angela directly, not me. > > Skills: Perl, MySQL, and Linux is good too. > > Contact: > Angela Willfong > 480-776-3300 x 105 > > Angie is a recruiter for Spherion Technology. I > (Victor) worked for them for a couple of years and they > are a good outfit. (It was previously Interim > Technology, and before that it was Computer Power > Group.) > > They are working on a mail filtering job involving > Perl, MySQL and Linux. Work would be in their office in > the Old Scottsdale area, for about two weeks, and > they'd like to start on Monday if possible. > > They have one person they've imported from another > office, working the PHP end, but want another person. > > Vic > > > > From doug.miles at bpxinternet.com Mon Oct 13 17:16:00 2003 From: doug.miles at bpxinternet.com (Doug Miles) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Meeting 10/16/2003 Message-ID: <3F8B2420.8070706@bpxinternet.com> We'll be having a Phoenix.pm meeting Thursday, October 16th at 7:00PM. It will be held at Bowne, which is located at 1500 N. Central Avenue, which is on the Southwest corner of Central and McDowell. The parking lot is gated, so just press the button on the intercom, and tell the receptionist that you are there for the Perl meeting. Park in the lot that is straight ahead from the entrance on the South side of McDowell. Park in any uncovered, non-reserved space. Proceed to the main lobby, which is on the Northeast side of the parking lot. I will be presenting Perl 101. From doug.miles at bpxinternet.com Wed Oct 15 14:03:07 2003 From: doug.miles at bpxinternet.com (Doug Miles) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Reminder: Meeting 10/16/2003 Message-ID: <3F8D99EB.4010001@bpxinternet.com> Please RSVP... We'll be having a Phoenix.pm meeting Thursday, October 16th at 7:00PM. It will be held at Bowne, which is located at 1500 N. Central Avenue, which is on the Southwest corner of Central and McDowell. The parking lot is gated, so just press the button on the intercom, and tell the receptionist that you are there for the Perl meeting. Park in the lot that is straight ahead from the entrance on the South side of McDowell. Park in any uncovered, non-reserved space. Proceed to the main lobby, which is on the Northeast side of the parking lot. I will be presenting Perl 101. From intertwingled at qwest.net Wed Oct 15 14:25:22 2003 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (intertwingled) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Reminder: Meeting 10/16/2003 In-Reply-To: <3F8D99EB.4010001@bpxinternet.com> References: <3F8D99EB.4010001@bpxinternet.com> Message-ID: <3F8D9F22.2040906@qwest.net> Perl for birdwatchers?? =) Tony Doug Miles wrote: > Please RSVP... > > We'll be having a Phoenix.pm meeting Thursday, October 16th at 7:00PM. > It will be held at Bowne, which is located at 1500 N. Central Avenue, > which is on the Southwest corner of Central and McDowell. The parking > lot is gated, so just press the button on the intercom, and tell the > receptionist that you are there for the Perl meeting. Park in the lot > that is straight ahead from the entrance on the South side of McDowell. > Park in any uncovered, non-reserved space. Proceed to the main lobby, > which is on the Northeast side of the parking lot. > > I will be presenting Perl 101. > > > > > From friedman at highwire.stanford.edu Wed Oct 15 14:46:42 2003 From: friedman at highwire.stanford.edu (Michael Friedman) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Reminder: Meeting 10/16/2003 In-Reply-To: <3F8D99EB.4010001@bpxinternet.com> Message-ID: <4D0B6ED6-FF48-11D7-A5CD-000A956CAA2C@highwire.stanford.edu> I'll be there. It sounds like fun. New minds to mold into the right image... bwahahaha -- Mike On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 12:03 PM, Doug Miles wrote: > Please RSVP... > > We'll be having a Phoenix.pm meeting Thursday, October 16th at 7:00PM. > It will be held at Bowne, which is located at 1500 N. Central Avenue, > which is on the Southwest corner of Central and McDowell. The parking > lot is gated, so just press the button on the intercom, and tell the > receptionist that you are there for the Perl meeting. Park in the lot > that is straight ahead from the entrance on the South side of McDowell. > Park in any uncovered, non-reserved space. Proceed to the main lobby, > which is on the Northeast side of the parking lot. > > I will be presenting Perl 101. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Friedman HighWire Press, Stanford Southwest Phone: 480-456-0880 Tempe, Arizona FAX: 270-721-8034 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From jasonriedel at jasonriedel.com Wed Oct 15 15:52:59 2003 From: jasonriedel at jasonriedel.com (Jason Riedel) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Reminder: Meeting 10/16/2003 References: <4D0B6ED6-FF48-11D7-A5CD-000A956CAA2C@highwire.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <008c01c3935e$540c5890$46021eac@PHXRIEDELJ> I should be there as well, look forward to seeing you all again. Jason Riedel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Friedman" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 12:46 PM Subject: Re: Phoenix.pm: Reminder: Meeting 10/16/2003 > I'll be there. It sounds like fun. > New minds to mold into the right image... bwahahaha > > -- Mike > > > On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 12:03 PM, Doug Miles wrote: > > > Please RSVP... > > > > We'll be having a Phoenix.pm meeting Thursday, October 16th at 7:00PM. > > It will be held at Bowne, which is located at 1500 N. Central Avenue, > > which is on the Southwest corner of Central and McDowell. The parking > > lot is gated, so just press the button on the intercom, and tell the > > receptionist that you are there for the Perl meeting. Park in the lot > > that is straight ahead from the entrance on the South side of McDowell. > > Park in any uncovered, non-reserved space. Proceed to the main lobby, > > which is on the Northeast side of the parking lot. > > > > I will be presenting Perl 101. > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael Friedman HighWire Press, Stanford Southwest > Phone: 480-456-0880 Tempe, Arizona > FAX: 270-721-8034 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > From doug.miles at bpxinternet.com Thu Oct 16 03:32:21 2003 From: doug.miles at bpxinternet.com (Doug Miles) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Meeting 10/16/2003 C@NCELED References: <3F8D99EB.4010001@bpxinternet.com> Message-ID: <3F8E5795.6080603@bpxinternet.com> Sorry guys, I need to c@ncel the meeting tomorrow. I have a situation at work best described this way: "Where are we going, and what's with this handbasket?" I'll try again in a couple of weeks. Sorry for the '@'s. I don't think majordomo liked my first message. From jasonriedel at jasonriedel.com Thu Oct 16 11:31:47 2003 From: jasonriedel at jasonriedel.com (Jason Riedel) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Meeting 10/16/2003 C@NCELED References: <3F8D99EB.4010001@bpxinternet.com> <3F8E5795.6080603@bpxinternet.com> Message-ID: <001401c39403$019a5490$46021eac@PHXRIEDELJ> ahhhh, ok :) Jason Riedel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Miles" To: Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 1:32 AM Subject: Re: Phoenix.pm: Meeting 10/16/2003 C@NCELED > Sorry guys, > > I need to c@ncel the meeting tomorrow. I have a situation at work best > described this way: > > "Where are we going, and what's with this handbasket?" > > I'll try again in a couple of weeks. > > Sorry for the '@'s. I don't think majordomo liked my first message. > From jpowers at ccbill.com Fri Oct 24 11:59:08 2003 From: jpowers at ccbill.com (Jacob Powers) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed Message-ID: <6365F4E07E769F4C89826D1DE90D80370ABD19@ccbill-exchange.exchange.cwie.net> Software Developer CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently looking for a Software Developer. Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of team leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both internal and external clients. Requirements: * Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. * Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. * Object oriented PERL knowledge. * Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. * Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. * Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. Following Skills a Plus: * Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. * Apache experience. * MySQL experience. * Database design. * Shell scripting. CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email us at the above address. Jacob Powers Project Manager CCBill.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/phoenix-pm/attachments/20031024/10ae1bc7/attachment.htm From scott at illogics.org Thu Oct 30 01:55:22 2003 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed Message-ID: <20031030075522.GB16473@illogics.org> Hi, I interviewed with them. I think a few people - Doug and Kurt - heard the story. Perhaps they have mellowed out a bit, but they wanted me to sign a document that stated that I had no intellectual property, and I assigned all of my IP to them. I got the interview partially because of free software programming I had done, and when I asked about this, they got their lawyers over to "help clarify", and surely enough, I couldn't sign the contract because I would be making a false statement, as I couldn't retract the code I've released. Anyone going down there should be aware of this and read the contracts carefully and evaluate your priorities. If you keep your mouth shut, there probably would be no problems, but a lot of people don't like being "owned". It seemed like a really nice outfit with nice people. Techies are well reguarded and respected in the company, and you'd have to see the building - very artistic - and the other programmers and people on tech support seemed very cool. This could be a great job for someone more interested in the business side of software than the hobby side. If you're thinking about it, pay a visit to their website. The industry is interesting. Final note - if you set up a website that accepts payments through ccbill, one of their tech guys (seperate bay than the programmers, though I don't know which this post is for) ssh's in and sets up the perl scripting for the webmaster, including setting up the redirect, forms, and such. You may find yourself working on websites you normally wouldn't be looking at. 2 cents and that. Cheers, -scott On 0, Jacob Powers wrote: > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Software Developer > =20 > CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently looking > for a Software Developer. > =20 > Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification > provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of team > leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both internal > and external clients. > =20 > Requirements: > * Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. > * Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. > * Object oriented PERL knowledge. > * Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. > * Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. > * Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. > =20 > Following Skills a Plus: > * Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. > * Apache experience. > * MySQL experience. > * Database design. > * Shell scripting. > =20 > CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual > work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, > cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com=20 > =20 > For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email us > at the above address. > =20 > Jacob Powers > Project Manager > CCBill.com > =20 > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > > > charset=3Dus-ascii"> > > > > > > > namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > name=3D"PersonName"/> > > > > > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'> > >
> >

style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight: > normal'> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; > font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Software = > Developer

> >

style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight: > normal'> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; > font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>  ont>

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 12.0pt'>CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently > looking for a Software Developer.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 12.0pt'> 

> >

size=3D3 > face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; > mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Job Description: Writes = > and > tests code written from specification provided by engineers and = > prototyping. > Works under the guidance of team leads to deliver fully functional and = > tested > software for both internal and external clients.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 12.0pt'> 

> >

size=3D3 > face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; > mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Requirements: p> > >

    >
  • .5in'> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Strong > understanding of programming concepts and best = > practices.
    • >
  • .5in'> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Excellent > PERL and SQL programming skills.
    • >
  • .5in'> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Object > oriented PERL knowledge.
    • >
  • .5in'> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Experience > using Linux/Unix OS and the VI = > editor.
    • >
  • .5in'> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Ability to thoroughly > test and troubleshoot code.
    • >
  • .5in'> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Experience > using HTML and JavaScript to build web = > applications.
    • >
> >

style=3D'font-size: > 12.0pt'> 

> >

size=3D3 > face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; > mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Following Skills a = > Plus:

> >
    >
  • .5in'> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Java, PHP, > and C/C++ knowledge.
    • >
  • .5in'> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Apache > experience.
    • >
  • .5in'> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>MySQL > experience.
    • >
  • .5in'> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Database > design.
    • >
  • .5in'> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Shell > scripting.
    • >
> >

style=3D'font-size: > 12.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 12.0pt'>CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a = > casual > work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, = > cover > letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com = >

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 12.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 12.0pt'>For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or = > email us > at the above address.

> >

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Jacob = > Powers style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'>

> >

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Project Manager style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'>

> >

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>CCBill.com p> > >

style=3D'font-size: > 12.0pt'> 

> >
> > > > > =00 > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D-- From johngnub at cox.net Thu Oct 30 08:58:26 2003 From: johngnub at cox.net (johnb) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:06 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed In-Reply-To: <20031030075522.GB16473@illogics.org> Message-ID: <83B61F64-0AE9-11D8-83B5-000A9585B970@cox.net> Some time ago I do recall that they where in the process of "hunting"; It sounds like it ( they ) has suffered some turnover - as well as other issues. 2 cents... On Thursday, October 30, 2003, at 12:55 AM, Scott Walters wrote: > Hi, > > I interviewed with them. I think a few people - Doug and Kurt - > heard the story. Perhaps they have mellowed out a bit, but they wanted > me to sign a document that stated that I had no intellectual property, > and I assigned all of my IP to them. I got the interview partially > because > of free software programming I had done, and when I asked about this, > they got their lawyers over to "help clarify", and surely enough, I > couldn't sign the contract because I would be making a false statement, > as I couldn't retract the code I've released. > > Anyone going down there should be aware of this and read the contracts > carefully and evaluate your priorities. If you keep your mouth shut, > there probably would be no problems, but a lot of people don't like > being "owned". > > It seemed like a really nice outfit with nice people. Techies are well > reguarded and respected in the company, and you'd have to see the > building - very artistic - and the other programmers and people on > tech support seemed very cool. This could be a great job for someone > more interested in the business side of software than the hobby side. > If you're thinking about it, pay a visit to their website. The industry > is interesting. Final note - if you set up a website that accepts > payments through ccbill, one of their tech guys (seperate bay > than the programmers, though I don't know which this post is for) > ssh's in and sets up the perl scripting for the webmaster, including > setting up the redirect, forms, and such. You may find yourself > working on websites you normally wouldn't be looking at. > > 2 cents and that. > > Cheers, > -scott > > On 0, Jacob Powers wrote: >> >> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> >> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="us-ascii" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> Software Developer >> =20 >> CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently >> looking >> for a Software Developer. >> =20 >> Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification >> provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of >> team >> leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both >> internal >> and external clients. >> =20 >> Requirements: >> * Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. >> * Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. >> * Object oriented PERL knowledge. >> * Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. >> * Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. >> * Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. >> =20 >> Following Skills a Plus: >> * Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. >> * Apache experience. >> * MySQL experience. >> * Database design. >> * Shell scripting. >> =20 >> CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual >> work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, >> cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com=20 >> =20 >> For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email us >> at the above address. >> =20 >> Jacob Powers >> Project Manager >> CCBill.com >> =20 >> >> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D >> Content-Type: text/html; >> charset="us-ascii" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = >> xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = >> xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> >> >> >> > charset=3Dus-ascii"> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" >> name=3D"PersonName"/> >> >> >> >> >> >> > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'> >> >>
>> >>

> style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight: >> normal'>> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; >> font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Software = >> Developer

>> >>

> style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight: >> normal'>> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; >> font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'> > span>> ont>

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'>CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is >> currently >> looking for a Software Developer.

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>

> size=3D3 >> face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; >> mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Job Description: >> Writes = >> and >> tests code written from specification provided by engineers and = >> prototyping. >> Works under the guidance of team leads to deliver fully functional >> and = >> tested >> software for both internal and external clients.

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>

> size=3D3 >> face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; >> mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Requirements:> b>> p> >> >>

    >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Strong >> understanding of programming concepts and best = >> practices.
    • >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Excellent >> PERL and SQL programming skills.
    • >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Object >> oriented PERL knowledge.
    • >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Experience >> using Linux/Unix OS and the VI = >> editor.
    • >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Ability to thoroughly >> test and troubleshoot code.
    • >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Experience >> using HTML and JavaScript to build web = >> applications.
    • >>
>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>

> size=3D3 >> face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; >> mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Following Skills a = >> Plus:

>> >>
    >>
  • > lfo1;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Java, PHP, >> and C/C++ knowledge.
    • >>
  • > lfo1;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Apache >> experience.
    • >>
  • > lfo1;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>MySQL >> experience.
    • >>
  • > lfo1;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Database >> design.
    • >>
  • > lfo1;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Shell >> scripting.
    • >>
>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'>CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a >> = >> casual >> work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, = >> cover >> letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com = >>

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'>For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or >> = >> email us >> at the above address.

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; >> font-family:Arial'> 

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Jacob = >> Powers> style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'>

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; >> font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Project Manager> style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'>

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; >> font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>CCBill.com> o:p>> p> >> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>
>> >> >> >> >> =00 >> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D-- > From jpowers at ccbill.com Thu Oct 30 10:48:38 2003 From: jpowers at ccbill.com (Jacob Powers) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:07 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed Message-ID: <6365F4E07E769F4C89826D1DE90D803702A80F@ccbill-exchange.exchange.cwie.net> Greeting all, I would like to put some of these "concerns" to rest and clarify the position. First of we are "hunting" for new programmers due to expansion and growth, how many companies can say that these days. We have an extremely low turnover and overall very happy employees. As Scott Walters stated, all techies are "very cool" here. In fact it is the best group of people I have ever had the pleasure of working with. The current Engineering and Development area contains about 10 programmers and 4 engineers. While we do require you to sign an I.P. clause it only applies to paying jobs. Meaning that if you want to work for somebody on the side you need our written consent, this is actually very standard. Open source development is fine, I do much myself, however the problem comes in when/if you develop something that competes with our products or uses concepts from our products. I think we would all agree that this is fair and understandable. Now regarding the position. It is a programming position, not and installation position. You would be writing code not distributing it to the sites. Being that we are a billing processor for internet websites we do have a large amount of adult natured sites. As a programmer you will not see much of this but it is here and you must have no reservations about it. I encourage all interested applicants to email me any questions regarding the position or company. I will be posting this on mainstream sites soon, Monster etc, but want to post here first as I tend to find better applicants who truly love technology in communities such as this. Jacob Powers Project Manager CCBill.com -----Original Message----- From: johnb [mailto:johngnub@cox.net] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:58 AM To: phoenix-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org Subject: Re: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed Some time ago I do recall that they where in the process of "hunting"; It sounds like it ( they ) has suffered some turnover - as well as other issues. 2 cents... On Thursday, October 30, 2003, at 12:55 AM, Scott Walters wrote: > Hi, > > I interviewed with them. I think a few people - Doug and Kurt - > heard the story. Perhaps they have mellowed out a bit, but they wanted > me to sign a document that stated that I had no intellectual property, > and I assigned all of my IP to them. I got the interview partially > because > of free software programming I had done, and when I asked about this, > they got their lawyers over to "help clarify", and surely enough, I > couldn't sign the contract because I would be making a false statement, > as I couldn't retract the code I've released. > > Anyone going down there should be aware of this and read the contracts > carefully and evaluate your priorities. If you keep your mouth shut, > there probably would be no problems, but a lot of people don't like > being "owned". > > It seemed like a really nice outfit with nice people. Techies are well > reguarded and respected in the company, and you'd have to see the > building - very artistic - and the other programmers and people on > tech support seemed very cool. This could be a great job for someone > more interested in the business side of software than the hobby side. > If you're thinking about it, pay a visit to their website. The industry > is interesting. Final note - if you set up a website that accepts > payments through ccbill, one of their tech guys (seperate bay > than the programmers, though I don't know which this post is for) > ssh's in and sets up the perl scripting for the webmaster, including > setting up the redirect, forms, and such. You may find yourself > working on websites you normally wouldn't be looking at. > > 2 cents and that. > > Cheers, > -scott > > On 0, Jacob Powers wrote: >> >> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> >> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="us-ascii" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> Software Developer >> =20 >> CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently >> looking >> for a Software Developer. >> =20 >> Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification >> provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of >> team >> leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both >> internal >> and external clients. >> =20 >> Requirements: >> * Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. >> * Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. >> * Object oriented PERL knowledge. >> * Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. >> * Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. >> * Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. >> =20 >> Following Skills a Plus: >> * Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. >> * Apache experience. >> * MySQL experience. >> * Database design. >> * Shell scripting. >> =20 >> CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual >> work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, >> cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com=20 >> =20 >> For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email us >> at the above address. >> =20 >> Jacob Powers >> Project Manager >> CCBill.com >> =20 >> >> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D >> Content-Type: text/html; >> charset="us-ascii" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = >> xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = >> xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> >> >> >> > charset=3Dus-ascii"> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" >> name=3D"PersonName"/> >> >> >> >> >> >> > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'> >> >>
>> >>

> style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight: >> normal'>> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; >> font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Software = >> Developer

>> >>

> style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight: >> normal'>> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; >> font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'> > span>> ont>

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'>CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is >> currently >> looking for a Software Developer.

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>

> size=3D3 >> face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; >> mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Job Description: >> Writes = >> and >> tests code written from specification provided by engineers and = >> prototyping. >> Works under the guidance of team leads to deliver fully functional >> and = >> tested >> software for both internal and external clients.

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>

> size=3D3 >> face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; >> mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Requirements:> b>> p> >> >>

    >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Strong >> understanding of programming concepts and best = >> practices.
    • >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Excellent >> PERL and SQL programming skills.
    • >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Object >> oriented PERL knowledge.
    • >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Experience >> using Linux/Unix OS and the VI = >> editor.
    • >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Ability to thoroughly >> test and troubleshoot code.
    • >>
  • > lfo2;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Experience >> using HTML and JavaScript to build web = >> applications.
    • >>
>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>

> size=3D3 >> face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; >> mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Following Skills a = >> Plus:

>> >>
    >>
  • > lfo1;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Java, PHP, >> and C/C++ knowledge.
    • >>
  • > lfo1;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Apache >> experience.
    • >>
  • > lfo1;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>MySQL >> experience.
    • >>
  • > lfo1;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Database >> design.
    • >>
  • > lfo1;tab-stops:list = >> .5in'>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Shell >> scripting.
    • >>
>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'>CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a >> = >> casual >> work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, = >> cover >> letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com = >>

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'>For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or >> = >> email us >> at the above address.

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; >> font-family:Arial'> 

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Jacob = >> Powers> style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'>

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; >> font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Project Manager> style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'>

>> >>

> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; >> font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>CCBill.com> o:p>> p> >> >>

> style=3D'font-size: >> 12.0pt'> 

>> >>
>> >> >> >> >> =00 >> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D-- > From intertwingled at qwest.net Thu Oct 30 11:54:58 2003 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (intertwingled) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:07 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed In-Reply-To: <6365F4E07E769F4C89826D1DE90D803702A80F@ccbill-exchange.exchange.cwie.net> References: <6365F4E07E769F4C89826D1DE90D803702A80F@ccbill-exchange.exchange.cwie.net> Message-ID: <3FA15072.3060104@qwest.net> Jacob Powers wrote: >Greeting all, > > I would like to put some of these "concerns" to rest and clarify >the position. First of we are "hunting" for new programmers due to >expansion and growth, how many companies can say that these days. > Friend of mine at godaddy says that they are expanding, and also that the owner is a very pro-America guy and swears that he will not outsource programming/technical jobs to India or anywhere else. Go, godaddy! > We >have an extremely low turnover and overall very happy employees. As >Scott Walters stated, all techies are "very cool" here. > The weirdest stories I've heard about CCBill are the lunches. Maybe you can expand on those. =) > In fact it is >the best group of people I have ever had the pleasure of working with. >The current Engineering and Development area contains about 10 >programmers and 4 engineers. > While we do require you to sign an I.P. clause it only applies >to paying jobs. Meaning that if you want to work for somebody on the >side you need our written consent, this is actually very standard. Open >source development is fine, I do much myself, however the problem comes >in when/if you develop something that competes with our products or uses >concepts from our products. I think we would all agree that this is fair >and understandable. > What if I am developing Open Source or GPL/LGPL software in my spare time so that I can contribute it to the open source community in general. Would I be constrained from doing that by your I.P. clause? Also, what if I develop a new algorithm while working for you that has applications in many industries/areas, not just CCBill. In other words, it would benefit EVERYBODY. Would CCBill want to retain I.P. rights to such an algorithm, or would they allow me to release it to the Open Source community so that all could benefit from it? > > Now regarding the position. It is a programming position, not >and installation position. You would be writing code not distributing it >to the sites. Being that we are a billing processor for internet >websites we do have a large amount of adult natured sites. > "Who doesn't like porn? In moderation anything is good" -- Goldmember, deleted scene ;-) >As a >programmer you will not see much of this but it is here and you must >have no reservations about it. > I guess that would be most of the Mormon population. =P >I encourage all interested applicants to >email me any questions regarding the position or company. I will be >posting this on mainstream sites soon, Monster etc, but want to post >here first as I tend to find better applicants who truly love technology >in communities such as this. > > Thanks, Jacob. On a personal note, I am severely bipolar, I hate cubicles and managers, I don't have a resume (resumes are entropic), I think that human resource departments are a waste of space, and generally I do my best work between 10 P.M. at night and 7 A.M. in the morning. So I don't think I would fit in at CCBill. Sincerely, A Perlgrammer. >Jacob Powers >Project Manager >CCBill.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: johnb [mailto:johngnub@cox.net] >Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:58 AM >To: phoenix-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org >Subject: Re: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed > >Some time ago I do recall that they where in the process of "hunting"; >It sounds like it ( they ) has suffered some turnover - as well as >other issues. > >2 cents... > >On Thursday, October 30, 2003, at 12:55 AM, Scott Walters wrote: > > > >>Hi, >> >>I interviewed with them. I think a few people - Doug and Kurt - >>heard the story. Perhaps they have mellowed out a bit, but they wanted >>me to sign a document that stated that I had no intellectual property, >>and I assigned all of my IP to them. I got the interview partially >>because >>of free software programming I had done, and when I asked about this, >>they got their lawyers over to "help clarify", and surely enough, I >>couldn't sign the contract because I would be making a false >> >> >statement, > > >>as I couldn't retract the code I've released. >> >>Anyone going down there should be aware of this and read the contracts >>carefully and evaluate your priorities. If you keep your mouth shut, >>there probably would be no problems, but a lot of people don't like >>being "owned". >> >>It seemed like a really nice outfit with nice people. Techies are well >>reguarded and respected in the company, and you'd have to see the >>building - very artistic - and the other programmers and people on >>tech support seemed very cool. This could be a great job for someone >>more interested in the business side of software than the hobby side. >>If you're thinking about it, pay a visit to their website. The >> >> >industry > > >>is interesting. Final note - if you set up a website that accepts >>payments through ccbill, one of their tech guys (seperate bay >>than the programmers, though I don't know which this post is for) >>ssh's in and sets up the perl scripting for the webmaster, including >>setting up the redirect, forms, and such. You may find yourself >>working on websites you normally wouldn't be looking at. >> >>2 cents and that. >> >>Cheers, >>-scott >> >>On 0, Jacob Powers wrote: >> >> >>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >>> >>>------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D >>>Content-Type: text/plain; >>> charset="us-ascii" >>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>> >>>Software Developer >>>=20 >>>CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently >>>looking >>>for a Software Developer. >>>=20 >>>Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification >>>provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of >>>team >>>leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both >>>internal >>>and external clients. >>>=20 >>>Requirements: >>>* Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. >>>* Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. >>>* Object oriented PERL knowledge. >>>* Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. >>>* Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. >>>* Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. >>>=20 >>>Following Skills a Plus: >>>* Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. >>>* Apache experience. >>>* MySQL experience. >>>* Database design. >>>* Shell scripting. >>>=20 >>>CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual >>>work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, >>>cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com=20 >>>=20 >>>For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email >>> >>> >us > > >>>at the above address. >>>=20 >>>Jacob Powers >>>Project Manager >>>CCBill.com >>>=20 >>> >>>------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D >>>Content-Type: text/html; >>> charset="us-ascii" >>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>> >>>>>xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = >>>xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = >>>xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> >>> >>> >>>>>charset=3Dus-ascii"> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" >>> name=3D"PersonName"/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'> >>> >>>
>>> >>>

>>style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight: >>>normal'>>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; >>>font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Software = >>>Developer

>>> >>>

>>style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight: >>>normal'>>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; >>>font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'> >>span>>>ont>

>>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size: >>>12.0pt'>CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is >>>currently >>>looking for a Software Developer.

>>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size: >>>12.0pt'> 

>>> >>>

>>size=3D3 >>>face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; >>>mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Job Description: >>>Writes = >>>and >>>tests code written from specification provided by engineers and = >>>prototyping. >>>Works under the guidance of team leads to deliver fully functional >>>and = >>>tested >>>software for both internal and external clients.

>>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size: >>>12.0pt'> 

>>> >>>

>>size=3D3 >>>face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; >>>mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Requirements:>> >>> > > > >>>b>>>p> >>> >>>

    >>>
  • >>lfo2;tab-stops:list = >>>.5in'>>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Strong >>> understanding of programming concepts and best = >>>practices.
    • >>>
  • >>lfo2;tab-stops:list = >>>.5in'>>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Excellent >>> PERL and SQL programming skills.
    • >>>
  • >>lfo2;tab-stops:list = >>>.5in'>>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Object >>> oriented PERL knowledge.
    • >>>
  • >>lfo2;tab-stops:list = >>>.5in'>>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Experience >>> using Linux/Unix OS and the VI = >>>editor.
    • >>>
  • >>lfo2;tab-stops:list = >>>.5in'>>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Ability to thoroughly >>> test and troubleshoot code.
    • >>>
  • >>lfo2;tab-stops:list = >>>.5in'>>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Experience >>> using HTML and JavaScript to build web = >>>applications.
    • >>>
>>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size: >>>12.0pt'> 

>>> >>>

>>size=3D3 >>>face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold; >>>mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Following Skills a = >>>Plus:

>>> >>>
    >>>
  • >>lfo1;tab-stops:list = >>>.5in'>>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Java, PHP, >>> and C/C++ knowledge.
    • >>>
  • >>lfo1;tab-stops:list = >>>.5in'>>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Apache >>> experience.
    • >>>
  • >>lfo1;tab-stops:list = >>>.5in'>>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>MySQL >>> experience.
    • >>>
  • >>lfo1;tab-stops:list = >>>.5in'>>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Database >>> design.
    • >>>
  • >>lfo1;tab-stops:list = >>>.5in'>>> size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Shell >>> scripting.
    • >>>
>>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size: >>>12.0pt'> 

>>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size: >>>12.0pt'>CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a >>> >>> > > > >>>= >>>casual >>>work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, >>> >>> >= > > >>>cover >>>letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com = >>>

>>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size: >>>12.0pt'> 

>>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size: >>>12.0pt'>For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or >>> >>> > > > >>>= >>>email us >>>at the above address.

>>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; >>>font-family:Arial'> 

>>> >>>

>> >>> >face=3DArial> > >>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Jacob >>> >>> >= > > >>>Powers>>style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'>

>>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; >>>font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Project >>> >>> >Manager > >>>style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'>

>>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; >>>font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>CCBill.com>>o:p>>>p> >>> >>>

>>style=3D'font-size: >>>12.0pt'> 

>>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>=00 >>>------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D-- >>> >>> > > > > > From extramail at cox.net Thu Oct 30 16:21:14 2003 From: extramail at cox.net (extramail@cox.net) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:07 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed Message-ID: <20031030222114.OOQR1636.fed1mtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Funny, I interviewed with them 2 years ago. Sounds like they have changed a little because one of the things they did for me is sit me down and bring up a pretty narly porno pic. They wanted to know if that really offended me because I would probably be running into it. In general, while they had some cool artwork, I didn't get a good feeling from the place. > I interviewed with them. I think a few people - Doug and Kurt - > heard the story. Perhaps they have mellowed out a bit, but they wanted > me to sign a document that stated that I had no intellectual property, > and I assigned all of my IP to them. I got the interview partially because > of free software programming I had done, and when I asked about this, > they got their lawyers over to "help clarify", and surely enough, I > couldn't sign the contract because I would be making a false statement, > as I couldn't retract the code I've released. > > Anyone going down there should be aware of this and read the contracts > carefully and evaluate your priorities. If you keep your mouth shut, > there probably would be no problems, but a lot of people don't like > being "owned". > > It seemed like a really nice outfit with nice people. Techies are well > reguarded and respected in the company, and you'd have to see the > building - very artistic - and the other programmers and people on > tech support seemed very cool. This could be a great job for someone > more interested in the business side of software than the hobby side. > If you're thinking about it, pay a visit to their website. The industry > is interesting. Final note - if you set up a website that accepts > payments through ccbill, one of their tech guys (seperate bay > than the programmers, though I don't know which this post is for) > ssh's in and sets up the perl scripting for the webmaster, including > setting up the redirect, forms, and such. You may find yourself > working on websites you normally wouldn't be looking at. > > 2 cents and that. > > Cheers, > -scott > > On 0, Jacob Powers wrote: > > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="us-ascii" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > Software Developer > > =20 > > CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently looking > > for a Software Developer. > > =20 > > Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification > > provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of team > > leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both internal > > and external clients. > > =20 > > Requirements: > > * Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. > > * Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. > > * Object oriented PERL knowledge. > > * Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. > > * Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. > > * Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. > > =20 > > Following Skills a Plus: > > * Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. > > * Apache experience. > > * MySQL experience. > > * Database design. > > * Shell scripting. > > =20 > > CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual > > work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, > > cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com=20 > > =20 > > For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email us > > at the above address. > > =20 > > Jacob Powers > > Project Manager > > CCBill.com > > =20 From m at pdxlug.org Thu Oct 30 17:40:42 2003 From: m at pdxlug.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:07 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed In-Reply-To: <20031030222114.OOQR1636.fed1mtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> References: <20031030222114.OOQR1636.fed1mtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: <32968.68.107.223.201.1067557242.squirrel@webmail.pdxlug.org> I interviewed with them about 4-5 months ago and I was impressed with the level of technical questions asked during the interview. It was obvious that the tech guys had a good grasp of technology and truly loved their work. Their business was growing rapidly and it sounded like there would be a lot of great opportunities in programming and engineering. ~M extramail@cox.net said: > > > Funny, I interviewed with them 2 years ago. Sounds like they have changed > a little because one of the things they did for me is sit me down and > bring up a pretty narly porno pic. They wanted to know if that really > offended me because I would probably be running into it. > > In general, while they had some cool artwork, I didn't get a good feeling > from the place. > > >> I interviewed with them. I think a few people - Doug and Kurt - >> heard the story. Perhaps they have mellowed out a bit, but they wanted >> me to sign a document that stated that I had no intellectual property, >> and I assigned all of my IP to them. I got the interview partially >> because >> of free software programming I had done, and when I asked about this, >> they got their lawyers over to "help clarify", and surely enough, I >> couldn't sign the contract because I would be making a false statement, >> as I couldn't retract the code I've released. >> >> Anyone going down there should be aware of this and read the contracts >> carefully and evaluate your priorities. If you keep your mouth shut, >> there probably would be no problems, but a lot of people don't like >> being "owned". >> >> It seemed like a really nice outfit with nice people. Techies are well >> reguarded and respected in the company, and you'd have to see the >> building - very artistic - and the other programmers and people on >> tech support seemed very cool. This could be a great job for someone >> more interested in the business side of software than the hobby side. >> If you're thinking about it, pay a visit to their website. The industry >> is interesting. Final note - if you set up a website that accepts >> payments through ccbill, one of their tech guys (seperate bay >> than the programmers, though I don't know which this post is for) >> ssh's in and sets up the perl scripting for the webmaster, including >> setting up the redirect, forms, and such. You may find yourself >> working on websites you normally wouldn't be looking at. >> >> 2 cents and that. >> >> Cheers, >> -scott >> >> On 0, Jacob Powers wrote: >> > >> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> > >> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D >> > Content-Type: text/plain; >> > charset="us-ascii" >> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> > >> > Software Developer >> > =20 >> > CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently >> looking >> > for a Software Developer. >> > =20 >> > Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification >> > provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of >> team >> > leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both >> internal >> > and external clients. >> > =20 >> > Requirements: >> > * Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. >> > * Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. >> > * Object oriented PERL knowledge. >> > * Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. >> > * Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. >> > * Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. >> > =20 >> > Following Skills a Plus: >> > * Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. >> > * Apache experience. >> > * MySQL experience. >> > * Database design. >> > * Shell scripting. >> > =20 >> > CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual >> > work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, >> > cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com=20 >> > =20 >> > For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email us >> > at the above address. >> > =20 >> > Jacob Powers >> > Project Manager >> > CCBill.com >> > =20 > > From billn at billn.net Thu Oct 30 18:53:15 2003 From: billn at billn.net (Bill Nash) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:07 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed In-Reply-To: <20031030222114.OOQR1636.fed1mtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 extramail@cox.net wrote: > > > Funny, I interviewed with them 2 years ago. Sounds like they have > changed a little because one of the things they did for me is sit me > down and bring up a pretty narly porno pic. They wanted to know if that > really offended me because I would probably be running into it. > > In general, while they had some cool artwork, I didn't get a good feeling from the place. > > Considering the customer base, that's really a decent litmus test, all things considered. Programmers, engineers, even marketing, they deal with porn. If that's something you can't handle on a daily basis, then don't. I've been through their interview process as well (although I didn't get to see any porn, wtf?) I've seen the IP docs of which you speak, and I asked a lot of the same questions, and the answers you got seem to be different than the ones I got, likely because the document has been revised since then. Your concerns are well founded, and it's good to see people looking out for themselves, especially developers who don't want their work sucked under a corporate umbrella. The long and short of the IP documents they presented, and how to keep your work out of an employer's IP space (Note, I am not a lawyer, please consult yours.): 1. Declare your side projects, in writing. So long as none of them are in competition with your prospective employer's primary (or even secondary) mission, then you're likely in the clear. Get their legal folks to sign off on a written statement of work for each project, as non-conflicting / non-infringing, and you're good to go. Bring them up during the interview process. 2. Work is work, personal is personal, and never the twain shall meet. Establish *clear* and *hard* boundaries on work you are paid to do, and work you're doing outside of the company context. This means no coding for the company on your home box, and no logging into your home box from the office to tinker with something because you had an idea. The term 'work for hire' applies to *everything* you do while you're on the clock. 3. If you want to contribute something you are working on to the open source community, simply ask before you pour a lot of time into it, unless you have to do it anyway. An example: In a previous position developing Network Management tools for a major ISP, the work I was doing dealt directly with our primary product, and a community release of my toolset would have been potentially damaging to our company's profitability, by giving tools to the competition. So long as what you want to release would not offer a competitor an advantage in your particular space, then it's entirely possible it could be kosher. Yes, you should absolutely be taking steps to protect yourself. Conversely, don't be too quick to assume a company is evil and out to get your work. Everything is open to negotiation. Pre-declared conditions to employment will often save you. - billn > > I interviewed with them. I think a few people - Doug and Kurt - > > heard the story. Perhaps they have mellowed out a bit, but they wanted > > me to sign a document that stated that I had no intellectual property, > > and I assigned all of my IP to them. I got the interview partially because > > of free software programming I had done, and when I asked about this, > > they got their lawyers over to "help clarify", and surely enough, I > > couldn't sign the contract because I would be making a false statement, > > as I couldn't retract the code I've released. > > > > Anyone going down there should be aware of this and read the contracts > > carefully and evaluate your priorities. If you keep your mouth shut, > > there probably would be no problems, but a lot of people don't like > > being "owned". > > > > It seemed like a really nice outfit with nice people. Techies are well > > reguarded and respected in the company, and you'd have to see the > > building - very artistic - and the other programmers and people on > > tech support seemed very cool. This could be a great job for someone > > more interested in the business side of software than the hobby side. > > If you're thinking about it, pay a visit to their website. The industry > > is interesting. Final note - if you set up a website that accepts > > payments through ccbill, one of their tech guys (seperate bay > > than the programmers, though I don't know which this post is for) > > ssh's in and sets up the perl scripting for the webmaster, including > > setting up the redirect, forms, and such. You may find yourself > > working on websites you normally wouldn't be looking at. > > > > 2 cents and that. > > > > Cheers, > > -scott > > > > On 0, Jacob Powers wrote: > > > > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D > > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > > charset="us-ascii" > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > Software Developer > > > =20 > > > CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently looking > > > for a Software Developer. > > > =20 > > > Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification > > > provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of team > > > leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both internal > > > and external clients. > > > =20 > > > Requirements: > > > * Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. > > > * Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. > > > * Object oriented PERL knowledge. > > > * Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. > > > * Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. > > > * Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. > > > =20 > > > Following Skills a Plus: > > > * Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. > > > * Apache experience. > > > * MySQL experience. > > > * Database design. > > > * Shell scripting. > > > =20 > > > CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual > > > work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, > > > cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com=20 > > > =20 > > > For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email us > > > at the above address. > > > =20 > > > Jacob Powers > > > Project Manager > > > CCBill.com > > > =20 > > From scott at illogics.org Thu Oct 30 20:23:16 2003 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:07 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed Message-ID: <20031031022316.GD16473@illogics.org> Well this is an interesting thread, as the Churcy Lady might say. I'm glad that Jacob felt at liberty to clarify and I hope that he can continue to take the idle gossip in stride ;) -scott On 0, extramail@cox.net wrote: > > > > Funny, I interviewed with them 2 years ago. Sounds like they have changed a little because one of the things they did for me is sit me down and bring up a pretty narly porno pic. They wanted to know if that really offended me because I would probably be running into it. > > In general, while they had some cool artwork, I didn't get a good feeling from the place. > > > > I interviewed with them. I think a few people - Doug and Kurt - > > heard the story. Perhaps they have mellowed out a bit, but they wanted > > me to sign a document that stated that I had no intellectual property, > > and I assigned all of my IP to them. I got the interview partially because > > of free software programming I had done, and when I asked about this, > > they got their lawyers over to "help clarify", and surely enough, I > > couldn't sign the contract because I would be making a false statement, > > as I couldn't retract the code I've released. > > > > Anyone going down there should be aware of this and read the contracts > > carefully and evaluate your priorities. If you keep your mouth shut, > > there probably would be no problems, but a lot of people don't like > > being "owned". > > > > It seemed like a really nice outfit with nice people. Techies are well > > reguarded and respected in the company, and you'd have to see the > > building - very artistic - and the other programmers and people on > > tech support seemed very cool. This could be a great job for someone > > more interested in the business side of software than the hobby side. > > If you're thinking about it, pay a visit to their website. The industry > > is interesting. Final note - if you set up a website that accepts > > payments through ccbill, one of their tech guys (seperate bay > > than the programmers, though I don't know which this post is for) > > ssh's in and sets up the perl scripting for the webmaster, including > > setting up the redirect, forms, and such. You may find yourself > > working on websites you normally wouldn't be looking at. > > > > 2 cents and that. > > > > Cheers, > > -scott > > > > On 0, Jacob Powers wrote: > > > > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D > > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > > charset="us-ascii" > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > Software Developer > > > =20 > > > CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently looking > > > for a Software Developer. > > > =20 > > > Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification > > > provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of team > > > leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both internal > > > and external clients. > > > =20 > > > Requirements: > > > * Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. > > > * Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. > > > * Object oriented PERL knowledge. > > > * Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. > > > * Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. > > > * Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. > > > =20 > > > Following Skills a Plus: > > > * Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. > > > * Apache experience. > > > * MySQL experience. > > > * Database design. > > > * Shell scripting. > > > =20 > > > CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual > > > work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, > > > cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com=20 > > > =20 > > > For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email us > > > at the above address. > > > =20 > > > Jacob Powers > > > Project Manager > > > CCBill.com > > > =20 > > From scott at illogics.org Fri Oct 31 10:55:27 2003 From: scott at illogics.org (Scott Walters) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:07 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed Message-ID: <20031031165527.GF16473@illogics.org> billn, Good advice. My case was somewhat exceptional - I had released cart code under the GPL that included code to bang several bank credit card gateways, including some almost entirely undocumented ones, and it was this experience (reverse engineering credit card gateways) that they were interested in (if it is possible to glean anything from an interview). So, before the job was offered, I was already in competition with them. The job was offered because because of the experience I would bring. I job was out of the question because it was decided by their on staff legal personal that my side work might benefit from things I learned on the job, and they might some day find themselves in competition with my work. My focus was complete solutions - not turn key ones, but class libraries and object frameworks flexible enough to be reused between diverse client needs where clients had complex, specific requirements and graphic design is done by a seperate party or a team. It is unlikely that the project would ever meet. I don't mean to give ccbill grief - and from what I hear, these contracts are pretty standard - but I think this serves as a good parable. Let me draw an analogy to my parable =) If you're a hit man, you'll have lots of customers, even though you'll garter much fear and respect from your clients as they seek square cut deals and clear boundaries. If you kill people ramdonly as some sort of amature serial killer, then you will have no clients, no business, and no deals. Because free software programmers are so universally threatening to established development (as free software is universally threatening to commercial software), no clear bounds can be drawn, no employer can feel safe. I was told that ccbill does employ a number of programmers who have released things GPL or otherwise, so this parable only serves to illustrate the problem - not to paint the scope of it or attitude towards it. For nervous clients in the past, I've tried other analogies - free software programming is like doing a research grant at school - you do the work, it is good experience, but the university owns it, and the university is accountable to the state and other philanthropic interests, so the code is made generally available. No one ever seems to buy these. On the other hand, most employers are suspicious of people who are still in school. I hope you all reach your own conclusions, but I suspect that what is needed is for the balance between free and commercial software to stabilize. When it is established that free software development can be done while playing by the same rules that industry plays by (higher standards, actually, I'd hope), and that these rules can only be enforced as well or as poorly as the commercial case, things should settle down. Dispite some radicial free software developers, most of them have no desire to be a threat to any reasonably honest business (and if they are threat to dishonest business, only because dishonesty doesn't pay). -scott On 0, Bill Nash wrote: > > > On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 extramail@cox.net wrote: > > > > > > > Funny, I interviewed with them 2 years ago. Sounds like they have > > changed a little because one of the things they did for me is sit me > > down and bring up a pretty narly porno pic. They wanted to know if that > > really offended me because I would probably be running into it. > > > > In general, while they had some cool artwork, I didn't get a good feeling from the place. > > > > > > Considering the customer base, that's really a decent litmus test, all > things considered. Programmers, engineers, even marketing, they deal with > porn. If that's something you can't handle on a daily basis, then don't. > > I've been through their interview process as well (although I didn't get > to see any porn, wtf?) I've seen the IP docs of which you speak, and I > asked a lot of the same questions, and the answers you got seem to be > different than the ones I got, likely because the document has been > revised since then. Your concerns are well founded, and it's good to see > people looking out for themselves, especially developers who don't want > their work sucked under a corporate umbrella. > > The long and short of the IP documents they presented, and how to keep > your work out of an employer's IP space (Note, I am not a lawyer, please > consult yours.): > > 1. Declare your side projects, in writing. So long as none of them are in > competition with your prospective employer's primary (or even secondary) > mission, then you're likely in the clear. Get their legal folks to sign > off on a written statement of work for each project, as non-conflicting / > non-infringing, and you're good to go. Bring them up during the interview > process. > > 2. Work is work, personal is personal, and never the twain shall meet. > Establish *clear* and *hard* boundaries on work you are paid to do, and > work you're doing outside of the company context. This means no coding for > the company on your home box, and no logging into your home box from the > office to tinker with something because you had an idea. The term 'work > for hire' applies to *everything* you do while you're on the clock. > > 3. If you want to contribute something you are working on to the open > source community, simply ask before you pour a lot of time into it, unless > you have to do it anyway. An example: In a previous position developing > Network Management tools for a major ISP, the work I was doing dealt > directly with our primary product, and a community release of my toolset > would have been potentially damaging to our company's profitability, by > giving tools to the competition. So long as what you want to release would > not offer a competitor an advantage in your particular space, then it's > entirely possible it could be kosher. > > Yes, you should absolutely be taking steps to protect yourself. > Conversely, don't be too quick to assume a company is evil and out to > get your work. Everything is open to negotiation. Pre-declared conditions > to employment will often save you. > > - billn > > > > I interviewed with them. I think a few people - Doug and Kurt - > > > heard the story. Perhaps they have mellowed out a bit, but they wanted > > > me to sign a document that stated that I had no intellectual property, > > > and I assigned all of my IP to them. I got the interview partially because > > > of free software programming I had done, and when I asked about this, > > > they got their lawyers over to "help clarify", and surely enough, I > > > couldn't sign the contract because I would be making a false statement, > > > as I couldn't retract the code I've released. > > > > > > Anyone going down there should be aware of this and read the contracts > > > carefully and evaluate your priorities. If you keep your mouth shut, > > > there probably would be no problems, but a lot of people don't like > > > being "owned". > > > > > > It seemed like a really nice outfit with nice people. Techies are well > > > reguarded and respected in the company, and you'd have to see the > > > building - very artistic - and the other programmers and people on > > > tech support seemed very cool. This could be a great job for someone > > > more interested in the business side of software than the hobby side. > > > If you're thinking about it, pay a visit to their website. The industry > > > is interesting. Final note - if you set up a website that accepts > > > payments through ccbill, one of their tech guys (seperate bay > > > than the programmers, though I don't know which this post is for) > > > ssh's in and sets up the perl scripting for the webmaster, including > > > setting up the redirect, forms, and such. You may find yourself > > > working on websites you normally wouldn't be looking at. > > > > > > 2 cents and that. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > -scott > > > > > > On 0, Jacob Powers wrote: > > > > > > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > > > charset="us-ascii" > > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > > > Software Developer > > > > =20 > > > > CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently looking > > > > for a Software Developer. > > > > =20 > > > > Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification > > > > provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of team > > > > leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both internal > > > > and external clients. > > > > =20 > > > > Requirements: > > > > * Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. > > > > * Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. > > > > * Object oriented PERL knowledge. > > > > * Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. > > > > * Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. > > > > * Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. > > > > =20 > > > > Following Skills a Plus: > > > > * Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. > > > > * Apache experience. > > > > * MySQL experience. > > > > * Database design. > > > > * Shell scripting. > > > > =20 > > > > CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual > > > > work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, > > > > cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com=20 > > > > =20 > > > > For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email us > > > > at the above address. > > > > =20 > > > > Jacob Powers > > > > Project Manager > > > > CCBill.com > > > > =20 > > > > > > From intertwingled at qwest.net Fri Oct 31 11:21:46 2003 From: intertwingled at qwest.net (intertwingled) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:07 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed In-Reply-To: <20031031165527.GF16473@illogics.org> References: <20031031165527.GF16473@illogics.org> Message-ID: <3FA29A2A.6000300@qwest.net> Gosh, I hope to meet billn at a future Perlmonger's meeting. =) Tony Scott Walters wrote: >billn, > >Good advice. > >My case was somewhat exceptional - I had released cart code under >the GPL that included code to bang several bank credit card gateways, >including some almost entirely undocumented ones, and it was this >experience (reverse engineering credit card gateways) that they >were interested in (if it is possible to glean anything from an >interview). So, before the job was offered, I was already in competition >with them. The job was offered because because of the experience >I would bring. I job was out of the question because it was decided >by their on staff legal personal that my side work might benefit from >things I learned on the job, and they might some day find themselves >in competition with my work. > >My focus was complete solutions - not turn key ones, but class libraries >and object frameworks flexible enough to be reused between diverse client >needs where clients had complex, specific requirements and graphic >design is done by a seperate party or a team. It is unlikely that >the project would ever meet. > >I don't mean to give ccbill grief - and from what I hear, these contracts >are pretty standard - but I think this serves as a good parable. Let me >draw an analogy to my parable =) If you're a hit man, you'll have lots >of customers, even though you'll garter much fear and respect from your >clients as they seek square cut deals and clear boundaries. If you kill >people ramdonly as some sort of amature serial killer, then you will have >no clients, no business, and no deals. Because free software programmers >are so universally threatening to established development (as free >software is universally threatening to commercial software), no clear >bounds can be drawn, no employer can feel safe. > >I was told that ccbill does employ a number of programmers who have released >things GPL or otherwise, so this parable only serves to illustrate the >problem - not to paint the scope of it or attitude towards it. > >For nervous clients in the past, I've tried other analogies - free software >programming is like doing a research grant at school - you do the work, it is >good experience, but the university owns it, and the university is accountable >to the state and other philanthropic interests, so the code is made generally >available. No one ever seems to buy these. On the other hand, most employers >are suspicious of people who are still in school. > >I hope you all reach your own conclusions, but I suspect that what is needed is >for the balance between free and commercial software to stabilize. When it is >established that free software development can be done while playing by the >same rules that industry plays by (higher standards, actually, I'd hope), >and that these rules can only be enforced as well or as poorly as the >commercial case, things should settle down. Dispite some radicial free software >developers, most of them have no desire to be a threat to any reasonably >honest business (and if they are threat to dishonest business, only because >dishonesty doesn't pay). > >-scott > > >On 0, Bill Nash wrote: > > >>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 extramail@cox.net wrote: >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>Funny, I interviewed with them 2 years ago. Sounds like they have >>>changed a little because one of the things they did for me is sit me >>>down and bring up a pretty narly porno pic. They wanted to know if that >>>really offended me because I would probably be running into it. >>> >>>In general, while they had some cool artwork, I didn't get a good feeling from the place. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Considering the customer base, that's really a decent litmus test, all >>things considered. Programmers, engineers, even marketing, they deal with >>porn. If that's something you can't handle on a daily basis, then don't. >> >>I've been through their interview process as well (although I didn't get >>to see any porn, wtf?) I've seen the IP docs of which you speak, and I >>asked a lot of the same questions, and the answers you got seem to be >>different than the ones I got, likely because the document has been >>revised since then. Your concerns are well founded, and it's good to see >>people looking out for themselves, especially developers who don't want >>their work sucked under a corporate umbrella. >> >>The long and short of the IP documents they presented, and how to keep >>your work out of an employer's IP space (Note, I am not a lawyer, please >>consult yours.): >> >>1. Declare your side projects, in writing. So long as none of them are in >>competition with your prospective employer's primary (or even secondary) >>mission, then you're likely in the clear. Get their legal folks to sign >>off on a written statement of work for each project, as non-conflicting / >>non-infringing, and you're good to go. Bring them up during the interview >>process. >> >>2. Work is work, personal is personal, and never the twain shall meet. >>Establish *clear* and *hard* boundaries on work you are paid to do, and >>work you're doing outside of the company context. This means no coding for >>the company on your home box, and no logging into your home box from the >>office to tinker with something because you had an idea. The term 'work >>for hire' applies to *everything* you do while you're on the clock. >> >>3. If you want to contribute something you are working on to the open >>source community, simply ask before you pour a lot of time into it, unless >>you have to do it anyway. An example: In a previous position developing >>Network Management tools for a major ISP, the work I was doing dealt >>directly with our primary product, and a community release of my toolset >>would have been potentially damaging to our company's profitability, by >>giving tools to the competition. So long as what you want to release would >>not offer a competitor an advantage in your particular space, then it's >>entirely possible it could be kosher. >> >>Yes, you should absolutely be taking steps to protect yourself. >>Conversely, don't be too quick to assume a company is evil and out to >>get your work. Everything is open to negotiation. Pre-declared conditions >>to employment will often save you. >> >>- billn >> >> >> >>>>I interviewed with them. I think a few people - Doug and Kurt - >>>>heard the story. Perhaps they have mellowed out a bit, but they wanted >>>>me to sign a document that stated that I had no intellectual property, >>>>and I assigned all of my IP to them. I got the interview partially because >>>>of free software programming I had done, and when I asked about this, >>>>they got their lawyers over to "help clarify", and surely enough, I >>>>couldn't sign the contract because I would be making a false statement, >>>>as I couldn't retract the code I've released. >>>> >>>>Anyone going down there should be aware of this and read the contracts >>>>carefully and evaluate your priorities. If you keep your mouth shut, >>>>there probably would be no problems, but a lot of people don't like >>>>being "owned". >>>> >>>>It seemed like a really nice outfit with nice people. Techies are well >>>>reguarded and respected in the company, and you'd have to see the >>>>building - very artistic - and the other programmers and people on >>>>tech support seemed very cool. This could be a great job for someone >>>>more interested in the business side of software than the hobby side. >>>>If you're thinking about it, pay a visit to their website. The industry >>>>is interesting. Final note - if you set up a website that accepts >>>>payments through ccbill, one of their tech guys (seperate bay >>>>than the programmers, though I don't know which this post is for) >>>>ssh's in and sets up the perl scripting for the webmaster, including >>>>setting up the redirect, forms, and such. You may find yourself >>>>working on websites you normally wouldn't be looking at. >>>> >>>>2 cents and that. >>>> >>>>Cheers, >>>>-scott >>>> >>>>On 0, Jacob Powers wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >>>>> >>>>>------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D >>>>>Content-Type: text/plain; >>>>> charset="us-ascii" >>>>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> >>>>>Software Developer >>>>>=20 >>>>>CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently looking >>>>>for a Software Developer. >>>>>=20 >>>>>Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification >>>>>provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of team >>>>>leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both internal >>>>>and external clients. >>>>>=20 >>>>>Requirements: >>>>>* Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. >>>>>* Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. >>>>>* Object oriented PERL knowledge. >>>>>* Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. >>>>>* Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. >>>>>* Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. >>>>>=20 >>>>>Following Skills a Plus: >>>>>* Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. >>>>>* Apache experience. >>>>>* MySQL experience. >>>>>* Database design. >>>>>* Shell scripting. >>>>>=20 >>>>>CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual >>>>>work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, >>>>>cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email us >>>>>at the above address. >>>>>=20 >>>>>Jacob Powers >>>>>Project Manager >>>>>CCBill.com >>>>>=20 >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > From billn at billn.net Fri Oct 31 11:41:16 2003 From: billn at billn.net (Bill Nash) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:17:07 2004 Subject: Phoenix.pm: Software Developer Needed In-Reply-To: <3FA29A2A.6000300@qwest.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, intertwingled wrote: > Gosh, I hope to meet billn at a future Perlmonger's meeting. =) > > Tony Actually, you're the specific reason I do not attend Perlmonger meetings. You may/should correctly assume that any and all distance I require you to keep from me extends to both this forum and life in general. - billn > > Scott Walters wrote: > > >billn, > > > >Good advice. > > > >My case was somewhat exceptional - I had released cart code under > >the GPL that included code to bang several bank credit card gateways, > >including some almost entirely undocumented ones, and it was this > >experience (reverse engineering credit card gateways) that they > >were interested in (if it is possible to glean anything from an > >interview). So, before the job was offered, I was already in competition > >with them. The job was offered because because of the experience > >I would bring. I job was out of the question because it was decided > >by their on staff legal personal that my side work might benefit from > >things I learned on the job, and they might some day find themselves > >in competition with my work. > > > >My focus was complete solutions - not turn key ones, but class libraries > >and object frameworks flexible enough to be reused between diverse client > >needs where clients had complex, specific requirements and graphic > >design is done by a seperate party or a team. It is unlikely that > >the project would ever meet. > > > >I don't mean to give ccbill grief - and from what I hear, these contracts > >are pretty standard - but I think this serves as a good parable. Let me > >draw an analogy to my parable =) If you're a hit man, you'll have lots > >of customers, even though you'll garter much fear and respect from your > >clients as they seek square cut deals and clear boundaries. If you kill > >people ramdonly as some sort of amature serial killer, then you will have > >no clients, no business, and no deals. Because free software programmers > >are so universally threatening to established development (as free > >software is universally threatening to commercial software), no clear > >bounds can be drawn, no employer can feel safe. > > > >I was told that ccbill does employ a number of programmers who have released > >things GPL or otherwise, so this parable only serves to illustrate the > >problem - not to paint the scope of it or attitude towards it. > > > >For nervous clients in the past, I've tried other analogies - free software > >programming is like doing a research grant at school - you do the work, it is > >good experience, but the university owns it, and the university is accountable > >to the state and other philanthropic interests, so the code is made generally > >available. No one ever seems to buy these. On the other hand, most employers > >are suspicious of people who are still in school. > > > >I hope you all reach your own conclusions, but I suspect that what is needed is > >for the balance between free and commercial software to stabilize. When it is > >established that free software development can be done while playing by the > >same rules that industry plays by (higher standards, actually, I'd hope), > >and that these rules can only be enforced as well or as poorly as the > >commercial case, things should settle down. Dispite some radicial free software > >developers, most of them have no desire to be a threat to any reasonably > >honest business (and if they are threat to dishonest business, only because > >dishonesty doesn't pay). > > > >-scott > > > > > >On 0, Bill Nash wrote: > > > > > >>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 extramail@cox.net wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>>Funny, I interviewed with them 2 years ago. Sounds like they have > >>>changed a little because one of the things they did for me is sit me > >>>down and bring up a pretty narly porno pic. They wanted to know if that > >>>really offended me because I would probably be running into it. > >>> > >>>In general, while they had some cool artwork, I didn't get a good feeling from the place. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>Considering the customer base, that's really a decent litmus test, all > >>things considered. Programmers, engineers, even marketing, they deal with > >>porn. If that's something you can't handle on a daily basis, then don't. > >> > >>I've been through their interview process as well (although I didn't get > >>to see any porn, wtf?) I've seen the IP docs of which you speak, and I > >>asked a lot of the same questions, and the answers you got seem to be > >>different than the ones I got, likely because the document has been > >>revised since then. Your concerns are well founded, and it's good to see > >>people looking out for themselves, especially developers who don't want > >>their work sucked under a corporate umbrella. > >> > >>The long and short of the IP documents they presented, and how to keep > >>your work out of an employer's IP space (Note, I am not a lawyer, please > >>consult yours.): > >> > >>1. Declare your side projects, in writing. So long as none of them are in > >>competition with your prospective employer's primary (or even secondary) > >>mission, then you're likely in the clear. Get their legal folks to sign > >>off on a written statement of work for each project, as non-conflicting / > >>non-infringing, and you're good to go. Bring them up during the interview > >>process. > >> > >>2. Work is work, personal is personal, and never the twain shall meet. > >>Establish *clear* and *hard* boundaries on work you are paid to do, and > >>work you're doing outside of the company context. This means no coding for > >>the company on your home box, and no logging into your home box from the > >>office to tinker with something because you had an idea. The term 'work > >>for hire' applies to *everything* you do while you're on the clock. > >> > >>3. If you want to contribute something you are working on to the open > >>source community, simply ask before you pour a lot of time into it, unless > >>you have to do it anyway. An example: In a previous position developing > >>Network Management tools for a major ISP, the work I was doing dealt > >>directly with our primary product, and a community release of my toolset > >>would have been potentially damaging to our company's profitability, by > >>giving tools to the competition. So long as what you want to release would > >>not offer a competitor an advantage in your particular space, then it's > >>entirely possible it could be kosher. > >> > >>Yes, you should absolutely be taking steps to protect yourself. > >>Conversely, don't be too quick to assume a company is evil and out to > >>get your work. Everything is open to negotiation. Pre-declared conditions > >>to employment will often save you. > >> > >>- billn > >> > >> > >> > >>>>I interviewed with them. I think a few people - Doug and Kurt - > >>>>heard the story. Perhaps they have mellowed out a bit, but they wanted > >>>>me to sign a document that stated that I had no intellectual property, > >>>>and I assigned all of my IP to them. I got the interview partially because > >>>>of free software programming I had done, and when I asked about this, > >>>>they got their lawyers over to "help clarify", and surely enough, I > >>>>couldn't sign the contract because I would be making a false statement, > >>>>as I couldn't retract the code I've released. > >>>> > >>>>Anyone going down there should be aware of this and read the contracts > >>>>carefully and evaluate your priorities. If you keep your mouth shut, > >>>>there probably would be no problems, but a lot of people don't like > >>>>being "owned". > >>>> > >>>>It seemed like a really nice outfit with nice people. Techies are well > >>>>reguarded and respected in the company, and you'd have to see the > >>>>building - very artistic - and the other programmers and people on > >>>>tech support seemed very cool. This could be a great job for someone > >>>>more interested in the business side of software than the hobby side. > >>>>If you're thinking about it, pay a visit to their website. The industry > >>>>is interesting. Final note - if you set up a website that accepts > >>>>payments through ccbill, one of their tech guys (seperate bay > >>>>than the programmers, though I don't know which this post is for) > >>>>ssh's in and sets up the perl scripting for the webmaster, including > >>>>setting up the redirect, forms, and such. You may find yourself > >>>>working on websites you normally wouldn't be looking at. > >>>> > >>>>2 cents and that. > >>>> > >>>>Cheers, > >>>>-scott > >>>> > >>>>On 0, Jacob Powers wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >>>>> > >>>>>------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A50.23DD2E9D > >>>>>Content-Type: text/plain; > >>>>> charset="us-ascii" > >>>>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >>>>> > >>>>>Software Developer > >>>>>=20 > >>>>>CCBill, a leader in online e-commerce transactions, is currently looking > >>>>>for a Software Developer. > >>>>>=20 > >>>>>Job Description: Writes and tests code written from specification > >>>>>provided by engineers and prototyping. Works under the guidance of team > >>>>>leads to deliver fully functional and tested software for both internal > >>>>>and external clients. > >>>>>=20 > >>>>>Requirements: > >>>>>* Strong understanding of programming concepts and best practices. > >>>>>* Excellent PERL and SQL programming skills. > >>>>>* Object oriented PERL knowledge. > >>>>>* Experience using Linux/Unix OS and the VI editor. > >>>>>* Ability to thoroughly test and troubleshoot code. > >>>>>* Experience using HTML and JavaScript to build web applications. > >>>>>=20 > >>>>>Following Skills a Plus: > >>>>>* Java, PHP, and C/C++ knowledge. > >>>>>* Apache experience. > >>>>>* MySQL experience. > >>>>>* Database design. > >>>>>* Shell scripting. > >>>>>=20 > >>>>>CCBill offers a wide range of benefits, competitive pay and a casual > >>>>>work environment. All interested applicants should send your resume, > >>>>>cover letter and references to jpowers@ccbill.com=20 > >>>>>=20 > >>>>>For more information please see our website www.ccbill.com or email us > >>>>>at the above address. > >>>>>=20 > >>>>>Jacob Powers > >>>>>Project Manager > >>>>>CCBill.com > >>>>>=20 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >