From ben.hengst at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 06:06:59 2007 From: ben.hengst at gmail.com (benh) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 06:06:59 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] O'Reilly UG Program Newsletter In-Reply-To: <200705312203.33441.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200705312203.33441.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <85ddf48b0706010606u16579fc8t1f0b5b292c21ef44@mail.gmail.com> Mastering Perl was on there: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596527242/ I wouldn't mind writing something up on it. On 5/31/07, The Dread Parrot wrote: > Looks like bash cookbook, restful web services, and a whole pile of ruby > books. I guess everything that ever needed to be said about Perl has > already been written. > > http://www.oreillynet.com/oreilly/ug/newsletter.csp > > Anyway, remember you can request a review copy and there are pdf's. > > --Eric > -- > > http://pdx.pm.org > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > -- benh~ From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 11:46:25 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 11:46:25 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] O'Reilly UG Program Newsletter In-Reply-To: <85ddf48b0706010606u16579fc8t1f0b5b292c21ef44@mail.gmail.com> References: <200705312203.33441.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <85ddf48b0706010606u16579fc8t1f0b5b292c21ef44@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200706011146.26273.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from benh # on Friday 01 June 2007 06:06 am: >On 5/31/07, The Dread Parrot wrote: >>I guess everything that ever needed to be said about >> Perl has already been written. > http://www.oreillynet.com/oreilly/ug/newsletter.csp >Mastering Perl was on there: >http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596527242/ I stand corrected. Must not have been operating my browser correctly. Lesson: should have used LWP. --Eric -- Introducing change is like pulling off a bandage: the pain is a memory almost as soon as you feel it. --Paul Graham --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From wickman at halfangle.com Fri Jun 1 13:13:15 2007 From: wickman at halfangle.com (Stephen Wickman) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:13:15 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] $dbh->{LongReadLen} In-Reply-To: <465F5B9D.8070302@vpservices.com> References: <465F2860.7020900@halfangle.com> <465F5B9D.8070302@vpservices.com> Message-ID: <46607DDB.9020607@halfangle.com> Setting a static value of $dbh->{LongReadLen}=2000000000 sends perl to a dark place so I have to drop it to max needed. Turns out I accidentally placed the dynamic allocation within the fetch loop so I'm not sure what size was actually in play per fetch. Setting the size needed per statement before the prepare did the trick. [FROM] Jeff Zucker [DATE] 2007-05-31 04:34 P: > $dbh->{LongReadLen} = 2000000001; ? :-) > > Stephen Wickman wrote: >> Anyone know the fuzzy math to capture the data in long varchar >> 2000000000 column? >> Setting $dbh->{LongReadLen} = $dbh->selectrow_array(qq(select >> length(col) from tbl)) doesn't quite suffice. Per "Programming the >> DBI", there is some addl overhead, but I'd prefer numbers in lieu of >> "slightly more than the length of the longest column". >> --thx, Steve >> _______________________________________________ >> Pdx-pm-list mailing list >> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list >> >> >> > > From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sun Jun 3 02:04:02 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 02:04:02 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] too late to run INIT (Class::Trait) In-Reply-To: <855013.82216.qm@web60818.mail.yahoo.com> References: <855013.82216.qm@web60818.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200706030204.02855.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Hi all, Is there any reliable way to tell if it is "Too late to run INIT"? All I can think of is $^S, but that doesn't seem to be any use. The warning appears to come from op.c, but AFAICT it is playing with some "do not touch" bits. We could all do the local $SIG{__WARN__} dance, but I'm thinking there has to be a better way for Class::Trait to make the compile-time checking optional. There's "no warnings 'void'", but it wouldn't be able to be conditional. Can't put the $SIG{__WARN__} in Class::Trait because local won't work there. Could put just the INIT block in Class::Trait::Strict, but that wouldn't default to compile-time checking the integrity (though it could maybe be made to die (thus being actually strict) but now we're back to the same question of whether or not compile-time is done.) hmm... BEGIN { our $shutup; local $SIG{__WARN__} = sub { warn "we had a warning @_\n"; }; require Class::Trait::Init unless($shutup); } sub _do_init { initialize() if scalar keys %TRAITS_TO_CHECK; } # Class::Trait::Strict use warnings; use strict; INIT { Class::Trait::_do_init(); } 1; ... $ perl -e '$Class::Trait::shutup = 1; require Class::Trait; print "yay\n"' yay $ perl -e 'require Class::Trait;' we had a warning Too late to run INIT block at Class/Trait/Init.pm line 5. So, we can catch the warning and use qr/^Too late to run INIT/ as a flag, possibly then using Class::Trait::Strict::import() (or caller()) as an indicator of whether strict trait-checking was explicitly requested (thus making runtime use of a trait-bearing class an optional fatal error (for the real sticklers)) but still be able to set the no-noise variable. Err, probably just be quiet by default and die if anyone explicitly requested that we *must* do compile-time checks. OTOH, could we just do the init bit when the SIG{__WARN__} fires? :-D Thoughts? e.g. we have to re-juggle the $SIG{__WARN__} in case some warning happens during the _do_init() :-/ Thanks, Eric # from Ovid # on Thursday 31 May 2007 08:57 am: >You mentioned that you don't use Class::Trait due to the "too late to > run INIT" warning. ?It's an unfortunate problem, but it's one which > is virtually impossible to avoid due to the way that Perl works. > ?Unfortunately, due to the nature of traits, moving it into > Class::Trait::Strict isn't an option (the compile-time safety is > something I need to guarantee). ?However, I have the following > snippet of code in my Test::Class base class and it should give you > an idea of one way to deal with the problem: > >? sub startup : Test(startup) { >? ? ? my $test = shift; > >? ? ? # If there are any tests in this class using the db, set it up: >? ? ? if($test->_pkg_has_attribute('DB')) { >? ? ? ? ? $test->_database( TEST::Database->new ); >? ? ? } > >? ? ? { >? ? ? ? ? my $using_traits = 0; > >? ? ? ? ? # Because of how traits work, they need to be loaded at > compile time # or else their integrity checks fail. ?This skips their > warning and # runs the integrity checks manually if traits are used. > local $SIG{__WARN__} = sub { >? ? ? ? ? ? ? my $warning = shift; >? ? ? ? ? ? ? if ( $warning =~ /Too late to run INIT > block.*Class\/Trait.pm/ ) { $using_traits = 1; >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return; >? ? ? ? ? ? ? } >? ? ? ? ? ? ? CORE::warn($warning); >? ? ? ? ? }; >? ? ? ? ? my $class = $test->_class; >? ? ? ? ? $class->require or $test->FAIL_ALL("Could not require > $class: $@"); Class::Trait->initialize if $using_traits; >? ? ? } >? } >----- Original Message ---- >From: Eric Wilhelm >To: Ovid >Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:16:10 PM >Subject: Class::Trait INIT thingy > >Hi Ovid, > >I have to admit that I ended up not using traits mainly because of the >"too late to run INIT" warning. ?I know it's a nit, but it makes my >"silence" tests fail :-( ?So, I'm using the *idea* of traits, but > doing it with Exporter. > >The unfortunate thing about INIT is that once you mention it, there is >no way to ignore it. > >I wonder if it would be better to put just that INIT block in >Class::Trait::Strict or something? -- Turns out the optimal technique is to put it in reverse and gun it. --Steven Squyres (on challenges in interplanetary robot navigation) --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sun Jun 3 10:01:49 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (The Dread Parrot) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 10:01:49 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] =?iso-8859-1?q?perlcast=2Ecom_=BB_Interview_with_Ovid_on?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_TAP?= Message-ID: <200706031001.50122.ewilhelm@cpan.org> http://perlcast.com/2007/06/03/interview-with-curtis-ovid-poe-on-perl-testing/ From keithl at kl-ic.com Wed Jun 6 09:27:06 2007 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 09:27:06 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] semiautomatic module downloader Message-ID: <20070606162706.GB19144@gate.kl-ic.com> One of the "pleasures" of running many Perl applications and modules are the repeated trips to CPAN to acquire the needed dependencies. Is there some method that simplifies the process? I was thinking a scanner that looks at the Perl app at either download or runtime, finds the modules that aren't already downloaded, and generates a script that can be run afterwards that interactively downloads the new modules from CPAN. Or is heading for CPAN one of life's joys for most, and I am foolishly demonstrating my lack of enlightenment? Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Jun 6 09:42:13 2007 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:42:13 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] semiautomatic module downloader In-Reply-To: <20070606162706.GB19144@gate.kl-ic.com> (Keith Lofstrom's message of "Wed, 6 Jun 2007 09:27:06 -0700") References: <20070606162706.GB19144@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <866461m3ve.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Keith" == Keith Lofstrom writes: Keith> Is there some method that simplifies the process? I was thinking Keith> a scanner that looks at the Perl app at either download or runtime, Keith> finds the modules that aren't already downloaded, and generates a Keith> script that can be run afterwards that interactively downloads the Keith> new modules from CPAN. Yes, it's called "CPAN.pm" or "CPANPLUS.pm", and is smart enough to run a Makefile.PL or Build.PL that is bundled with your properly created installation's .tar.gz. From there, the right CPAN modules are downloaded if necessary, and your scripts, libs, and docs are installed according to local policy. Now, if the tool you want to install didn't get created properly and includes a Makefile.PL/Build.PL, then shame on them. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 10:03:33 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:03:33 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] semiautomatic module downloader In-Reply-To: <866461m3ve.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <20070606162706.GB19144@gate.kl-ic.com> <866461m3ve.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <200706061003.33618.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Randal L. Schwartz # on Wednesday 06 June 2007 09:42 am: >Yes, it's called "CPAN.pm" or "CPANPLUS.pm", and is smart enough to > run a Makefile.PL or Build.PL that is bundled with your properly > created installation's .tar.gz. ?From there, the right CPAN modules > are downloaded if necessary Iff you're running the install starting from the CPAN(PLUS) shell. What about installing a local tarball that doesn't live on CPAN? (or isn't there yet) That is, how do you install from file:///tmp/Some-Dist.tar.gz without reconstructing a cpan mirror? But, I think Keith is talking about an even less organized situation like some_random_script.pl which ships without any packaging. In that case, Module::ScanDeps would probably be what you need. --Eric -- So malloc calls a timeout and starts rummaging around the free chain, sorting things out, and merging adjacent small free blocks into larger blocks. This takes 3 1/2 days. --Joel Spolsky --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From andy at petdance.com Wed Jun 6 10:13:41 2007 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 12:13:41 -0500 Subject: [Pdx-pm] semiautomatic module downloader In-Reply-To: <20070606162706.GB19144@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20070606162706.GB19144@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <6E04C071-AC4A-4B6D-845C-AD9F57E80B62@petdance.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > Or is heading for CPAN one of life's joys for most, and I am foolishly > demonstrating my lack of enlightenment? You want the CPAN shell. $ perl -MCPAN -eshell or $ cpan xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 18:25:41 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Seven till Seven) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 18:25:41 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] New Speaker - Meeting next Wed June 13th Message-ID: <200706071825.41554.ewilhelm@cpan.org> 6:53pm at FreeGeek -- 1731 SE 10th Ave. speaker: Jaap Karssenberg topic: Gtk-Perl + Zim (an "un-collaborative wiki") * an example program in Gtk,to demonstrate the basics * the freedesktop mime and application bindings (programming for the desktop (as opposed to the web)) * a quick Zim demo * advanced Gtk slides at the end if everyone behaves themselves Followed by beer at the Lucky Lab. (Note: gtk is the "gimp toolkit" GUI widget set/API (e.g. gimp, gnome, most gui programs starting with 'g', etc.)) (Also note: freedesktop is an open standards initiative for things like .desktop files, thumbnails, and various other interoperability bits on linux (and anywhere else they can get away with it.)) (Also also note: The originally scheduled talk "my first CPAN module(s)" has been rescheduled for July.) --Eric -- http://pdx.pm.org From mark at acerbate.org Fri Jun 8 10:37:11 2007 From: mark at acerbate.org (Mark Harris) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:37:11 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Building DBD::mysql on Mac OS X Message-ID: I did a CPAN install DBD::mysql, and the install aborted because of multiple test failures. I'd appreciate advise from anyone who has successfully installed this on a Mac OS X system. (My version is 10.4.9) TIA, Mark Harris Tigard, OR From Dan at edgelink.com Fri Jun 8 10:56:56 2007 From: Dan at edgelink.com (Dan Iverson) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:56:56 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] 3 Month Contract Opening in Downtown Portland Message-ID: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812E9E5@server1.edgelink.local> Hello, My name is Dan Iverson and I am a recruiter with Edgelink, a technical staffing firm in Portland. I have a three month contract position that I am recruiting for at this time. I am looking for a Perl Programmer with 2-3 years of experience in programming in Perl. This individual should also have experience with Linux and/or Free BSD. This person will be doing 100% new development on an existing project for one of our clients located in the downtown area. We are looking for someone to start this position in the next week or two so they would have to be available immediately and work must be done onsite working with a few other team members. If you are interested in this position please contact me as soon as possible. Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you. Dan Iverson Technical Recruiter EdgeLink 503-246-3989 ext 119 503-246-4375 fax dan at edgelink.com www.edgelink.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20070608/6f0b3c63/attachment.html From sdeckelmann at chrisking.com Fri Jun 8 11:19:08 2007 From: sdeckelmann at chrisking.com (Selena Deckelmann) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 11:19:08 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Building DBD::mysql on Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have a look here and see if that fixes your problem: http://jayallen.org/journey/2006/04/dbd-mysql-build-problems-on-mac- book-pro Hard to say without more information what your specific issue is, but it generally comes down to where your socket file is located, and then, perhaps, ignoring the test results. -selena On Jun 8, 2007, at 10:37 AM, Mark Harris wrote: > I did a CPAN install DBD::mysql, and the install aborted because of > multiple test failures. I'd appreciate advise from anyone who has > successfully installed this on a Mac OS X system. (My version is > 10.4.9) > > TIA, > > Mark Harris > Tigard, OR > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list -- Selena Deckelmann Information Systems Manager Chris King Precision Components Made in Portland, Oregon www.chrisking.com / 503.972.4050 x230 From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 18:02:53 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (The Dread Parrot) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 18:02:53 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: [pm_groups] TPF boot at OSCON Message-ID: <200706081802.54055.ewilhelm@cpan.org> ---------- Forwarded Message: ---------- Subject: [pm_groups] TPF boot at OSCON Date: Friday 08 June 2007 10:55 am From: "David H. Adler" The Perl Foundation is looking for volunteers to man (or woman) our booth at OSCON. If any of your members are attending OSCON and would like to volunteer, they can send an email to volunteer at perlfoundation.org. ------------------------------------------------------- From nojunkster at gmail.com Mon Jun 11 19:32:04 2007 From: nojunkster at gmail.com (Noj) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:32:04 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getting Started with CPAN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've messed around with Perl for awhile, but I keep running into Perl Module Hell. I'll spend a few hours/days trying to figure out CPAN, but it always seems less trouble to rewrite stuff from scratch than find that initial foothold on the CPAN climbing wall. Frustratingly, all the material on it seems to take for granted that you already know CPAN and/or how to customize a makefile. I want to do things the 'right' way, but I can't find a path up. I keep seeing the phrase (sarcastic?) 'an easy install from CPAN', but when I tried running CPAN (most recently on a vanilla MacOS X Tiger), typed something like 'install XML::Parser' at the 'cpan>' prompt, it just keep saying things like 'depends on [some other module], prepend?', then lots of stuff scrolls by, and it asks to prepend another module, sometimes a newer version of the same packages, and finally wraps it up with a 'install failed' after 5+ minutes of this. Then I see some reference to using sudo, and warnings some packages would clobber existing stuff in /usr/bin if there was a name conflict, so change the default directory in the makefile, etc etc. Seems pretty dodgy. Is there any reference page on how to just get something like XML::Parser working on a vanilla MacOS X Tiger? Can I get some advice on how to learn CPAN without already knowing how to use CPAN? Most immediately, I'm trying to open a UTF-8 XML file. If I read it using 'while (<>)', I get junk. This is perl, v5.8.6 built for darwin-thread-multi-2level. Am I on the right track trying to use XML::Parser? Thanks in Advance. Noj From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 12:00:59 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:00:59 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getting Started with CPAN (on mac) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200706121200.59709.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Noj # on Monday 11 June 2007 07:32 pm: >Can I get some advice >on how to learn CPAN without already knowing how to use CPAN? I think the important fact is that the mac cpan is rather broken. IIRC, it is configured to install into /usr/ instead of /usr/local, but that might also include "the mac perl is broken" in that they don't give you any @INC paths in /usr/local. The important thing to know about CPAN is that it is a recursive installer. If you're seeing "install failed" but the error isn't more obvious, try scrolling back through the output. Also, take note of the prerequisite modules -- possibly installing them one at a time. Particularly in the XML::Parser case you're going to be dealing with some compiled modules and it's possible that the requisite binary libraries (.dylib or whatever) aren't on your system. Do you have XML::Parser::Expat? Try installing that first. You might have to reconfigure cpan's settings ("o conf init") and "install Bundle::CPAN" is probably a good idea. --Eric -- "But as to modern architecture, let us drop it and let us take modernistic out and shoot it at sunrise." --F.L. Wright --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From me at donaldrichardson.net Tue Jun 12 15:00:39 2007 From: me at donaldrichardson.net (Donald Richardson) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:00:39 -0400 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Pdx-pm-list Digest, Vol 48, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070612220039.GA25952@donaldrichardson.net> Noj.I don't know about Tiger, but whenever I get failure to install XML::Parser it's because, for some reason unknown to me, it fails to compile the Expat libs. I usually just do an apt-get (probably fink for you) for lib-expat1 (I can't remember if you also need the lib-expat1-dev package). If I'm totally off-base with this, then you'll have to provide some additional info. Donny > I've messed around with Perl for awhile, but I keep running into Perl > Module Hell. I'll spend a few hours/days trying to figure out CPAN, > but it always seems less trouble to rewrite stuff from scratch than > find that initial foothold on the CPAN climbing wall. Frustratingly, > all the material on it seems to take for granted that you already know > CPAN and/or how to customize a makefile. I want to do things the > 'right' way, but I can't find a path up. > > I keep seeing the phrase (sarcastic?) 'an easy install from CPAN', but > when I tried running CPAN (most recently on a vanilla MacOS X Tiger), > typed something like 'install XML::Parser' at the 'cpan>' prompt, it > just keep saying things like 'depends on [some other module], > prepend?', then lots of stuff scrolls by, and it asks to prepend > another module, sometimes a newer version of the same packages, and > finally wraps it up with a 'install failed' after 5+ minutes of this. > Then I see some reference to using sudo, and warnings some packages > would clobber existing stuff in /usr/bin if there was a name conflict, > so change the default directory in the makefile, etc etc. Seems > pretty dodgy. > > Is there any reference page on how to just get something like > XML::Parser working on a vanilla MacOS X Tiger? Can I get some advice > on how to learn CPAN without already knowing how to use CPAN? > > Most immediately, I'm trying to open a UTF-8 XML file. If I read it > using 'while (<>)', I get junk. This is perl, v5.8.6 built for > darwin-thread-multi-2level. Am I on the right track trying to use > XML::Parser? > > Thanks in Advance. > > Noj From nojunkster at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 16:23:08 2007 From: nojunkster at gmail.com (Noj) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:23:08 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getting Started with CPAN In-Reply-To: <31086b240706111958i50515c8fv425307176815040a@mail.gmail.com> References: <31086b240706111958i50515c8fv425307176815040a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ah, Developer Tools. I'd heard of it re other things I wanted to try on Mac, but couldn't find it on install DVD. Did more googling and found (on a non-apple site) that Developer Tools is spelled 'Xcode' on the install DVD. So Developer Tools are installed now... As you mentioned, I didn't have the 'make' command before installing DT (whoops), but it is there now. It's been a while since the last time I tried to get started on CPAN, so I either forget or never saw the perlmodinstall manpage. It seems to have the trailhead for how to manually install modules and use the cpan manager. If I do something manually, and get into using the CPAN package manager later, will it auto-detect the manually installed stuff, or does it keep it's own running index of what it's been used to install? I don't want stuff to install to /usr/bin and possibly over-write OS X stuff, how/when do I tell the CPAN app to put it somewhere else, and get that new location in the execution path? If that info is somewhere on the path perlmodinstall manpage leads to, hopefully I'll know it when I see it. If anyone knows any big rocks in the path, or a more concise 'here's how you do it on a mac', let me know. Otherwise, I'll check in and post what I learned when I (hopefully) figure it out. For my immediate problem (almost solved without using modules): Anyone know a perl one-liner to turn a plain UTF-8 file into a 'normal' ASCII file that can be processed in perl without bringing a bunch of modules into things? Currently my workaround is to load the file (a Final Cut Pro sequence, exported as XML) into the TextWrangler editor and then 'save as' 'Western (ISO latin 1)' encoding (with UNIX linebreaks). This works fine for my purpose, but it seems like a silly manual step. At least Final Cut will re-import the modified XML, even though it's not in UTF-8 anymore. If nothing else, at least I have an awkward process working now, and some breadcrumbs to follow for how to smooth things out in the future. Thanks! -Noj On 6/11/07, Tom Phoenix wrote: > Say no more. Install the Developer Tools before you take another step. > (Without those, do you even have make?) Although Mac OS X comes with > perl, it's not ready for prime time without the Developer Tools. > > > just keep saying things like 'depends on [some other module], > > prepend?', then lots of stuff scrolls by, and it asks to prepend > > another module, sometimes a newer version of the same packages, and > > finally wraps it up with a 'install failed' after 5+ minutes of this. > > Beyond that, is there anything in the perlmodinstall manpage that is > giving you trouble? From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 18:52:20 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:52:20 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getting Started with CPAN In-Reply-To: References: <31086b240706111958i50515c8fv425307176815040a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200706121852.20803.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Noj # on Tuesday 12 June 2007 04:23 pm: >I don't want stuff to install to /usr/bin and possibly over-write OS X >stuff, how/when do I tell the CPAN app to put it somewhere else, and >get that new location in the execution path? ?If that info is >somewhere on the path perlmodinstall manpage leads to, hopefully I'll >know it when I see it. ?If anyone knows any big rocks in the path, or >a more concise 'here's how you do it on a mac', let me know. couple of links I had lying around under the "macs are dumb" category: http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/macosx/ http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003222.html Note the bit where you lose your /usr/bin/head. In addition to makepl_arg, I think you also need to configure buildpl_arg (or whatever that's called) to point to a /usr/local/bin path. Or maybe you could switch it to a case-sensitive filesystem. On a related note, anybody have some pointers about cross-compiling perl + modules? I'm thinking of moving to a purely linux+distcc build system and not finding much in the way of hints about what I'll be getting myself into (I'm also planning to install linux on the mac mini and run os-ecks virtualized on that if I can possibly get away with it ;-) --Eric -- The opinions expressed in this e-mail were randomly generated by the computer and do not necessarily reflect the views of its owner. --Management --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From joshua at keroes.com Tue Jun 12 19:33:42 2007 From: joshua at keroes.com (Joshua Keroes) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:33:42 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getting Started with CPAN In-Reply-To: <200706121852.20803.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <31086b240706111958i50515c8fv425307176815040a@mail.gmail.com> <200706121852.20803.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: On 6/12/07, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > > > couple of links I had lying around under the "macs are dumb" category: > > http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/macosx/ > http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003222.html > > Note the bit where you lose your /usr/bin/head. In addition to > makepl_arg, I think you also need to configure buildpl_arg (or whatever > that's called) to point to a /usr/local/bin path. > > Or maybe you could switch it to a case-sensitive filesystem. > You *could* use the Mac Case-Sensitive FS but then (apparently due to Adobe *trying* to break things) you can't run Photoshop. Seriously, it requires a case-insensitive FS. *bonk bonk bonk* J -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20070612/3eb16b11/attachment.html From schwern at pobox.com Tue Jun 12 19:53:02 2007 From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:53:02 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getting Started with CPAN In-Reply-To: <200706121852.20803.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <31086b240706111958i50515c8fv425307176815040a@mail.gmail.com> <200706121852.20803.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <466F5C0E.8040801@pobox.com> Eric Wilhelm wrote: > Note the bit where you lose your /usr/bin/head. FWIW LWP fixed that a while ago. From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 23:56:16 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:56:16 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getting Started with CPAN In-Reply-To: References: <200706121852.20803.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <200706122356.16633.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Joshua Keroes # on Tuesday 12 June 2007 07:33 pm: >You *could* use the Mac Case-Sensitive FS but then (apparently due to > Adobe *trying* to break things) you can't run Photoshop. Seriously, > it requires a case-insensitive FS. *bonk bonk bonk* bonk. I'll put that on the list of hates. Right next to "choose a volume on which to install this software" ... "you idiot, you have to install it on the primary volume, so I'll ask you to choose again and you better get it right this time!" bonk. Thus the desire to install linux and run os x virtualized on top of that. i.e. "As little interaction with the mac as possible." The internets are telling me that's a no-go though. Ditto for "cross-compiling perl+modules". Ugh. Cross-compiling is old hat (plus it's all x86 anyway so we're really only talking about "cross-linking") and perl is cross platform+interpreted, so "in theory" this should be a piece of cake, right? --Eric -- If the above message is encrypted and you have lost your pgp key, please send a self-addressed, stamped lead box to the address below. --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 12:13:08 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Seven till Seven) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:13:08 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Meeting Tonight Message-ID: <200706131213.09292.ewilhelm@cpan.org> 6:53pm at FreeGeek -- 1731 SE 10th Ave. speaker: Jaap Karssenberg topic: Gtk-Perl + Zim (an "un-collaborative wiki") * an example program in Gtk,to demonstrate the basics * the freedesktop mime and application bindings (programming for the desktop (as opposed to the web)) * a quick Zim demo * advanced Gtk slides at the end if everyone behaves themselves Followed by beer at the Lucky Lab. (Note: gtk is the "gimp toolkit" GUI widget set/API (e.g. gimp, gnome, most gui programs starting with 'g', etc.)) (Also note: freedesktop is an open standards initiative for things like .desktop files, thumbnails, and various other interoperability bits on linux (and anywhere else they can get away with it.)) --Eric -- http://pdx.pm.org From Katie at edgelink.com Wed Jun 13 14:08:07 2007 From: Katie at edgelink.com (Katie Parker) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:08:07 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Contract Opportunity Message-ID: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> Our client is seeking an energetic, self-motivated SW Engineer with strong analytical skills to help with increasing business needs. The project requires knowledge of SQL DB, TSQL, OOP (specifically .net C#) Linux, and Perl Scripting for a contract opportunity in Hillsboro, OR. Daily Responsibilities: Responsible for gathering or analyzing user requirements, coming up with solution. Your responsibilities will include but not be limited to: - Understand customer issues and provide solution in a timely manner - Using judgment in data analysis to develop and design solutions for moderately complex processes according to specs, and performing unit and integration testing - Planning and scheduling work to meet deadlines established by others to ensure the completion of several related tasks - Develop web based application utilizating his/her SQL DB, TSQL and .net C# knowledge/experience - Develop mail services utilizing his/her Perl script experience Necessary Skills (Must Have): - Windows - .net C# - SQL DB/Transactional SQL - Linux - Perl Scripting. If you are interested please e-mail a word format of your resume to Katie at edgelink.com Katie Parker Technical Recruiter EdgeLink, LLC (503) 246-3989 x117 Blog with us! www.edgelink.com/blog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20070613/d4312fcb/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 5937 bytes Desc: image001.gif Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20070613/d4312fcb/attachment.gif From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Jun 13 15:11:02 2007 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:11:02 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) In-Reply-To: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> (Katie Parker's message of "Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:08:07 -0700") References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> Message-ID: <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Katie" == Katie Parker writes: Katie> Our client is seeking an energetic, self-motivated SW Engineer with Katie> strong analytical skills to help with increasing business needs. The Katie> project requires knowledge of SQL DB, TSQL, OOP (specifically .net C#) Katie> Linux, and Perl Scripting for a contract opportunity in Hillsboro, OR. I feel a bit spammed by this. Can we adopt a "principals only" (aka "no recruiters") policy here? I mean, it's one thing if Eric or Ovid says "hey, my company is hiring" (at least, when ovid was in pdx), but it's entirely a different thing if a third party who stands to make money if the deal is sold putting out the feelers here. That turns this into a commercial transaction, and I'd likely unsubscribe from such a list. I know, some of you say "no loss!", but let's at least pretend that my participation in my hometown pm group is handy. :) Also, consider that this recruiter isn't smart enough to distinguish a job where Perl is a minor requirement from an actual Perl programmer job. I'd also have felt a bit less spammed if that was the case. Or, if I had met the recruiter. Does Katie show up at meetings? Is Katie technical, or just a recruiter? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From kevin at scaldeferri.com Wed Jun 13 15:24:00 2007 From: kevin at scaldeferri.com (Kevin Scaldeferri) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:24:00 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) In-Reply-To: <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <92CBCD43-DC57-4CDB-A905-323D5DE4EDC1@scaldeferri.com> On Jun 13, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> "Katie" == Katie Parker writes: > > Katie> Our client is seeking an energetic, self-motivated SW > Engineer with > Katie> strong analytical skills to help with increasing business > needs. The > Katie> project requires knowledge of SQL DB, TSQL, OOP > (specifically .net C#) > Katie> Linux, and Perl Scripting for a contract opportunity in > Hillsboro, OR. > > I feel a bit spammed by this. Can we adopt a "principals > only" (aka "no > recruiters") policy here? If we're voting, I'd also like "principals only", and "mostly Perl" in our job posting policy. -kevin From chromatic at wgz.org Wed Jun 13 15:30:14 2007 From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:30:14 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) In-Reply-To: <92CBCD43-DC57-4CDB-A905-323D5DE4EDC1@scaldeferri.com> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <92CBCD43-DC57-4CDB-A905-323D5DE4EDC1@scaldeferri.com> Message-ID: <200706131530.14878.chromatic@wgz.org> On Wednesday 13 June 2007 15:24:00 Kevin Scaldeferri wrote: > If we're voting, I'd also like "principals only", and "mostly Perl" > in our job posting policy. If we're voting, I'd like to humiliate people verbally who use the word "utilize" in an apparently serious context apart from the phrase "CPU utilization". I mean, as long as we're griping about pet peeves.... -- c From mikeraz at patch.com Wed Jun 13 15:58:43 2007 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:58:43 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) In-Reply-To: <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <20070613225843.GA11435@patch.com> Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > I mean, it's one thing if Eric or Ovid says "hey, my company is hiring" (at > least, when ovid was in pdx), Ovid saying "hey, my company is hiring" Now more than ever! Pricipals only please. -- Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/words/ The fortune cookie says: Words can never express what words can never express. From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 00:21:24 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:21:24 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: Bug Day for 0.4.13: Saturday, June 16th Message-ID: <200706140021.24898.ewilhelm@cpan.org> All you need is an irc client. ---------- Forwarded Message: ---------- Subject: Bug Day for 0.4.13: Saturday, June 16th Date: Tuesday 12 June 2007 12:23 pm From: Allison Randal To: p2 --From http://rakudo.org/parrot/index.cgi?bug_day_2007_06_16-- Bug Day On Saturday, 16 June 2007, please join us on IRC in #parrot (irc.perl.org) to work on closing out as many RT (https://rt.perl.org/rt3/) tickets as possible in the parrot queue. This will help us get ready for the next release of parrot: 0.4.13, scheduled for Tuesday 19 June 2007. You'll find C, parrot assembly, perl, documentation, and plenty of tasks to go around. Core developers will be available most of the day to answer questions. No experience with parrot necessary. Thanks in advance for your patches and commits, Allison ------------------------------------------------------- -- software: a hypothetical exercise which happens to compile. --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 00:38:27 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:38:27 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) In-Reply-To: <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Randal L. Schwartz # on Wednesday 13 June 2007 03:11 pm: >I feel a bit spammed by this. ?Can we adopt a "principals only" (aka > "no recruiters") policy here? That policy has already been in place, albeit informally. Katie, if you or any of your fellow edgelink employees feel that you've been unjustly unsubscribed, please send me a message directly. We welcome participation and vetted/Perl-specific job postings are okay, but this is primarily a technical list. Recruitment is not completely forbidden, but should be moderated. This particular posting would not have made it through moderation given that Perl is the *last* skill mentioned. Thanks, Eric -- Scratch Computing 3320 SW 122nd Ave. Beaverton, OR 97005 Office: (503) 643-1684 Mobile: (503) 880-4750 http://scratchcomputing.com From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 00:39:30 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:39:30 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) In-Reply-To: <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Eric Wilhelm # on Thursday 14 June 2007 12:38 am: >That policy has already been in place, albeit informally. Any volunteers for writing the page to formalize this? Thanks, Eric -- "Insert random misquote here" --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 00:49:09 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:49:09 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) In-Reply-To: <200706131530.14878.chromatic@wgz.org> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <92CBCD43-DC57-4CDB-A905-323D5DE4EDC1@scaldeferri.com> <200706131530.14878.chromatic@wgz.org> Message-ID: <200706140049.10152.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from chromatic # on Wednesday 13 June 2007 03:30 pm: >> If we're voting, I'd also like "principals only", and "mostly Perl" >> in our job posting policy. > >If we're voting, I'd like to humiliate people verbally who use the >word "utilize" in an apparently serious context apart from the phrase > "CPU utilization". ?I mean, as long as we're griping about pet > peeves.... As mentioned at tonight's meeting, Randal gives +1 for spelling Perl without all caps, but we're still at -2 with Kevin and Michael. I'll weigh-in with my +10 club of dictatorial demeritification for forcing me to seriously consider activating mailman's moderation for all new subscribers. And another whack for edgelink having personally spammed me with php jobs until I called (e-mail wouldn't do) their office and asked to be removed from all of their lists. One more whack for good measure puts it at -32. Bye. --Eric -- The only thing that could save UNIX at this late date would be a new $30 shareware version that runs on an unexpanded Commodore 64. --Don Lancaster (1991) --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From keithl at kl-ic.com Thu Jun 14 00:53:52 2007 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:53:52 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <20070614075352.GA26225@gate.kl-ic.com> On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 12:39:30AM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > > Any volunteers for writing the page to formalize this? Here is some verbiage which can be plagiarized freely: http://www.eeconsult.org/recruiters.html You may also copy the "headhunter man" icon if you wish. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Thu Jun 14 01:37:44 2007 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) Message-ID: <391711.75380.qm@web60816.mail.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Rasmussen > Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > > I mean, it's one thing if Eric or Ovid says "hey, my company is hiring" (at > > least, when ovid was in pdx), > > Ovid saying "hey, my company is hiring" Now more than ever! Well, actually my company *is* hiring, but it will be a while before they go through another 6 month wait for a foreign employee :) (Unless you happen to be a programming god they can't live without -- a category I don't fall into, so I guess I taught them a lesson) Cheers, Ovid -- Buy the book -- http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/ Perl and CGI -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From akf at aracnet.com Sun Jun 17 19:59:37 2007 From: akf at aracnet.com (Amy Farrell) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:59:37 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) In-Reply-To: <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> I'll float a draft, since I suggested a page. It seems four days is enough for me to forget the details of what was discussed, so please forgive (and correct!) me where this is inaccurate: ================ List Policy pdx-pm-list is for the discussion of perl and related topics by portland perl mongers members. Job postings from principals (not recruiters) are welcome as long as perl programming is a primary part of the job. "My company is hiring a perl programmer" is good, "Company X needs to hire a FizBinn programmer and perl would be nice too" is not. Please do not join the list just to post job offerings. ================ Rather than a stand-alone page, I think this would go best on the list info page: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list and in the "welcome" email (if we have control over that). If not, this looks like a good place: http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?MailingList - Amy Eric Wilhelm wrote: > # from Eric Wilhelm > # on Thursday 14 June 2007 12:38 am: > >> That policy has already been in place, albeit informally. > > Any volunteers for writing the page to formalize this? > > Thanks, > Eric From randall at sonofhans.net Sun Jun 17 20:25:53 2007 From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:25:53 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) In-Reply-To: <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <7B0D7857-1235-47EE-BD32-5D8E872C7F9C@sonofhans.net> On Jun 17, 2007, at 7:59 PM, Amy Farrell wrote: > Job postings from principals (not recruiters) are welcome as long as > perl programming is a primary part of the job. "My company is hiring a > perl programmer" is good, "Company X needs to hire a FizBinn > programmer and perl would be nice too" is not. Please do not join the > list just to post job offerings. amy++ r From allison at perl.org Sun Jun 17 22:59:14 2007 From: allison at perl.org (Allison Randal) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 22:59:14 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON rooming Message-ID: <46761F32.3010804@perl.org> Jonathan Worthington (Parrot hacker) will be in Portland for OSCON and is looking for a place to stay. Anyone up for hosting visiting geeks? (Our geekpad in Hillsboro is a fallback, but the 2 hour daily round-trip commute to the Convention Center makes it less-than-ideal.) Let me know if you're interested and I'll put you in touch with Jonathan. Thanks, Allison From tex at off.org Mon Jun 18 10:31:51 2007 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:31:51 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) In-Reply-To: <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20070618173151.GG3746@gblx.net> On Sun, Jun 17, 2007 at 07:59:37PM -0700, Amy Farrell wrote: > I'll float a draft, since I suggested a page. It seems four days is > enough for me to forget the details of what was discussed, so please > forgive (and correct!) me where this is inaccurate: > > ================ > List Policy > > pdx-pm-list is for the discussion of perl and related topics by > portland perl mongers members. > > Job postings from principals (not recruiters) are welcome as long as > perl programming is a primary part of the job. "My company is hiring a > perl programmer" is good, "Company X needs to hire a FizBinn > programmer and perl would be nice too" is not. Please do not join the > list just to post job offerings. This is good and nicely worded. Off the record I would say that if any of you who actually program computers for a living and/or have showed up to a couple of meetings were looking for FizBinn programmers with perl experience that would be fine too. On the record I'll say you should be tarred and forced to program in Tcl for two weeks straight. Austin From akf at aracnet.com Mon Jun 18 11:22:55 2007 From: akf at aracnet.com (Amy K. Farrell) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:22:55 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? (was Re: Contract Opportunity) In-Reply-To: <20070618173151.GG3746@gblx.net> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> <20070618173151.GG3746@gblx.net> Message-ID: <20070618182255.GA12009@aracnet.com> On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 10:31:51AM -0700, Austin Schutz wrote: > This is good and nicely worded. Off the record I would say that if > any of you who actually program computers for a living and/or have showed > up to a couple of meetings were looking for FizBinn programmers with perl > experience that would be fine too. > On the record I'll say you should be tarred and forced to program > in Tcl for two weeks straight. > > Austin I agree. I almost included something roughly translating to "long-standing members know what they can get away with," but caught myself. No point *saying* that. - Amy -- A.K. Farrell From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Jun 18 11:41:08 2007 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:41:08 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: <20070618182255.GA12009@aracnet.com> (Amy K. Farrell's message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:22:55 -0700") References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> <20070618173151.GG3746@gblx.net> <20070618182255.GA12009@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <86ejk9qf5n.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Amy" == Amy K Farrell writes: Amy> I agree. I almost included something roughly translating to Amy> "long-standing members know what they can get away with," but caught Amy> myself. No point *saying* that. I think that's sort of what tweaked me in the first place. A non-for-profit affiliation or association works because the group has members who all contribute in their own ways. It's a potluck. Everybody brings a bit of food, and we all get to share the resulting variety. If someone has regularly brought food, and then one day shows up with no food, and wanting to take a bit extra home for their family, we all go "cool, no problem". (If they started doing that every week, we might think twice.) However, if someone came to their very first potluck, and said "I would like to take home these three dishes, thank you", there would be an expected round of outcries. I consider a recruiting announcement, especially by a person who stands to personally make money if fulfilled, a "taking", since it takes our attention away, and that's the most precious resource most of us have: our time. If that same person had been "giving" for a long time, a single "taking" would be a lot easier to swallow. (Mixed conflicting metaphors included for comic effect.) So, if you come, and participate, you can probably get away with a bit of "look the other way" when you talk about your car for sale. But if you walk in the first day, advertising your car for sale, too bad. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From tex at off.org Mon Jun 18 11:54:54 2007 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:54:54 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: <86ejk9qf5n.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> <20070618173151.GG3746@gblx.net> <20070618182255.GA12009@aracnet.com> <86ejk9qf5n.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <20070618185454.GH3746@gblx.net> On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 11:41:08AM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > >>>>> "Amy" == Amy K Farrell writes: > > Amy> I agree. I almost included something roughly translating to > Amy> "long-standing members know what they can get away with," but caught > Amy> myself. No point *saying* that. > > I think that's sort of what tweaked me in the first place. > > A non-for-profit affiliation or association works because the group has > members who all contribute in their own ways. > > It's a potluck. Everybody brings a bit of food, and we all get to share the > resulting variety. > Hey, I like that metaphor. We could use it for a meeting unless FreeGeek has some anti-food rules. Austin From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Jun 18 11:59:35 2007 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:59:35 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: <20070618185454.GH3746@gblx.net> (Austin Schutz's message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:54:54 -0700") References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> <20070618173151.GG3746@gblx.net> <20070618182255.GA12009@aracnet.com> <86ejk9qf5n.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <20070618185454.GH3746@gblx.net> Message-ID: <86abuxqeaw.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Austin" == Austin Schutz writes: Austin> Hey, I like that metaphor. We could use it for a meeting unless Austin> FreeGeek has some anti-food rules. I never metaphor I didn't like. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From jeff at vpservices.com Mon Jun 18 12:21:50 2007 From: jeff at vpservices.com (Jeff Zucker) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:21:50 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: <86ejk9qf5n.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> <20070618173151.GG3746@gblx.net> <20070618182255.GA12009@aracnet.com> <86ejk9qf5n.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <4676DB4E.2000706@vpservices.com> Amy, thanks much for writing the recruitment policy, sounds good to me. I agree with what I think Austin and Randal were saying. Coincidently, I happen to have a test case handy. So treat the following as a request from a long standing member and shower me with opprobrium if it breaks our unwritten law: I'm working for a local non-profit that is looking for a full-time sysadmin, someone who is able to communicate with other staff and understand the organization's goals (a non-BOFHish BOFH, if you will), who can work with (yuck) M$ Exchange, and who has moderate to strong video/streaming fu. If you are or know of such a person, please contact me offlist. -- Jeff (aka jZed) From conform-perl at deadgeek.com Mon Jun 18 12:25:38 2007 From: conform-perl at deadgeek.com (Seamus Campbell) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:25:38 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: <20070618185454.GH3746@gblx.net> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> <20070618173151.GG3746@gblx.net> <20070618182255.GA12009@aracnet.com> <86ejk9qf5n.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <20070618185454.GH3746@gblx.net> Message-ID: <20070618192538.GB25473@deadgeek.com> On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 11:54:54AM -0700, Austin Schutz wrote: Austin> Hey, I like that metaphor. We could use it for a meeting unless Austin> FreeGeek has some anti-food rules. FreeGeek is very much pro-food. And pro-potlucks. No worries! Seamus perl hacker, list lurker, FG Director and Treasurer From alan at clueserver.org Mon Jun 18 13:13:20 2007 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: <20070618192538.GB25473@deadgeek.com> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> <20070618173151.GG3746@gblx.net> <20070618182255.GA12009@aracnet.com> <86ejk9qf5n.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <20070618185454.GH3746@gblx.net> <20070618192538.GB25473@deadgeek.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2007, Seamus Campbell wrote: > On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 11:54:54AM -0700, Austin Schutz wrote: > Austin> Hey, I like that metaphor. We could use it for a meeting unless > Austin> FreeGeek has some anti-food rules. > > FreeGeek is very much pro-food. And pro-potlucks. No worries! So we need a rule that recruiters need to buy food/beer/cider? -- "ANSI C says access to the padding fields of a struct is undefined. ANSI C also says that struct assignment is a memcpy. Therefore struct assignment in ANSI C is a violation of ANSI C..." - Alan Cox From kellert at ohsu.edu Mon Jun 18 14:44:07 2007 From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas J Keller) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:44:07 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: StumbleVideo - Middle Ages Tech Support References: <000001c7b119$fc54c0a0$6601a8c0@Kitchputer> Message-ID: Thought you might enjoy this. Tom kellert at ohsu.edu 503-494-2442 Begin forwarded message: > http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=nehvwvwijz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20070618/c4e7896c/attachment.html From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Jun 18 15:07:23 2007 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:07:23 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: (alan@clueserver.org's message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:13:20 -0700 (PDT)") References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <86fy4vzert.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706140038.27757.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200706140039.31130.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <4675F519.60204@aracnet.com> <20070618173151.GG3746@gblx.net> <20070618182255.GA12009@aracnet.com> <86ejk9qf5n.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <20070618185454.GH3746@gblx.net> <20070618192538.GB25473@deadgeek.com> Message-ID: <864pl4q5lw.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "alan" == alan writes: alan> So we need a rule that recruiters need to buy food/beer/cider? Yes... if a recruiter wants to "sponsor" a monthly meeting by providing foodstuffs for all of us in exchange for a 3-minute pitch of their choice, I'd vote for that. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Mon Jun 18 16:18:53 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:18:53 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: <864pl4q5lw.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <864pl4q5lw.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <200706181618.53497.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Randal L. Schwartz # on Monday 18 June 2007 03:07 pm: >alan> So we need a rule that recruiters need to buy food/beer/cider? > >Yes... if a recruiter wants to "sponsor" a monthly meeting by > providing foodstuffs for all of us in exchange for a 3-minute pitch > of their choice, I'd vote for that. Well, sort of. I think any objections to a given recruiter means they can find their own venue whether they've got beer or not. Thus, they're still in the "better ask first" category, (rather than some random recruiter showing up and expecting to get the floor to recruit for doTnet jobs just because they bought us a five pack.) --Eric -- A counterintuitive sansevieria trifasciata was once literalized guiltily. --Product of Artificial Intelligence --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Jun 18 16:36:14 2007 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:36:14 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: <200706181618.53497.ewilhelm@cpan.org> (Eric Wilhelm's message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:18:53 -0700") References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <864pl4q5lw.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706181618.53497.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <86vedkomxd.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Eric" == Eric Wilhelm writes: Eric> Well, sort of. I think any objections to a given recruiter means they Eric> can find their own venue whether they've got beer or not. Thus, Eric> they're still in the "better ask first" category, (rather than some Eric> random recruiter showing up and expecting to get the floor to recruit Eric> for doTnet jobs just because they bought us a five pack.) We'd also not want 10 recruiters all showing up the same night, providing enough food and drink to feed a small army, only to consume 30 minutes of otherwise valuable python-bashing time. :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From alan at clueserver.org Mon Jun 18 16:47:28 2007 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: <86vedkomxd.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <864pl4q5lw.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706181618.53497.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <86vedkomxd.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2007, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Wilhelm writes: > > Eric> Well, sort of. I think any objections to a given recruiter means they > Eric> can find their own venue whether they've got beer or not. Thus, > Eric> they're still in the "better ask first" category, (rather than some > Eric> random recruiter showing up and expecting to get the floor to recruit > Eric> for doTnet jobs just because they bought us a five pack.) > > We'd also not want 10 recruiters all showing up the same night, providing > enough food and drink to feed a small army, only to consume 30 minutes of > otherwise valuable python-bashing time. :) Or having them bring cheap pizza or a small bag of potato chips... -- "ANSI C says access to the padding fields of a struct is undefined. ANSI C also says that struct assignment is a memcpy. Therefore struct assignment in ANSI C is a violation of ANSI C..." - Alan Cox From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Jun 18 17:03:14 2007 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:03:14 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] No recruiters, please? In-Reply-To: (alan@clueserver.org's message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:47:28 -0700 (PDT)") References: <8249F4EAF35487409BB26FC3B32DD47812ED78@server1.edgelink.local> <864pl4q5lw.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200706181618.53497.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <86vedkomxd.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <86ir9kolod.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "alan" == alan writes: alan> Or having them bring cheap pizza or a small bag of potato chips... You know, if the lady that started this discussion thread were to show up at the next meeting to buy us all our first round at Lucky Lab, I'd consider the case closed. :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From brian at opensourcery.com Thu Jun 21 17:50:33 2007 From: brian at opensourcery.com (Brian Jamison) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:50:33 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl job with OpenSourcery Message-ID: <467B1CD9.1020202@opensourcery.com> I think this fits within the acceptable guidelines. If not please let me know. OpenSourcery is looking for a software developer experienced with object oriented design, web applications and reliable development methods including version control, unit testing, automated testing and deployment processes. You should have a solid understanding of the challenges specific to web applications, the inherently stateless nature of HTTP, the typical security issues, common scaling issues involving load balancing of web/database servers for an application, and the applicability of MVC architecture and of AJAX. The primary qualification for this position is an interest in creative problem solving. OpenSourcery does a lot of custom development which requires us to evaluate a client's problem domain, scope a solution and build it incrementally with feedback. Specifically we need the following skills: Platforms: *nix Languages: Perl5, Javascript, SQL, HTML, XML, CSS, plus real development experience with at least one other language (Ruby, Java, Python, PHP, C, etc.) Databases: PostgreSQL, MySQL Frameworks/APIs: Template::Toolkit, AJAX, one or more unit testing frameworks (Test::More, JUnit...), one or more acceptance testing frameworks for webapps (Selenium, WWW::Mechanize, JWebUnit, etc...) Tools: one or more source control systems, Make, common Unix command line tools, psql, mysql, a programmer's editor or IDEs, ssh, one or more debuggers/profilers Skills: Perl-OO, CPAN, regular expressions, shell scripting, estimation, project collaboration Any of the following are desirable: Apache2, mod-perl, Subversion, experience with other web application frameworks and ORMs, database replication/clustering Please provide us with a current resume and two work samples exercised with test code. Please include a short summary with each work sample which explains how you feel it is relevant to your qualifications. http://opensourcery.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20070621/64b8cf50/attachment.bin From randall at sonofhans.net Thu Jun 21 18:05:10 2007 From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:05:10 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl job with OpenSourcery In-Reply-To: <467B1CD9.1020202@opensourcery.com> References: <467B1CD9.1020202@opensourcery.com> Message-ID: On Jun 21, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Brian Jamison wrote: > OpenSourcery is looking for a software developer ... FWIW I've been working for OpenSourcery for two years and I love it. It's without question the best group of people I've worked with, and we do good, valuable, and interesting work. r From merlyn at stonehenge.com Thu Jun 21 19:35:41 2007 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:35:41 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl job with OpenSourcery In-Reply-To: <467B1CD9.1020202@opensourcery.com> (Brian Jamison's message of "Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:50:33 -0700") References: <467B1CD9.1020202@opensourcery.com> Message-ID: <86ps3oaf7m.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Jamison writes: Brian> I think this fits within the acceptable guidelines. If not please let Brian> me know. Oregon? The moon? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From brian at opensourcery.com Thu Jun 21 19:37:55 2007 From: brian at opensourcery.com (Brian Jamison) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:37:55 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl job with OpenSourcery In-Reply-To: <86ps3oaf7m.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <467B1CD9.1020202@opensourcery.com> <86ps3oaf7m.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <467B3603.3000800@opensourcery.com> Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> "Brian" == Brian Jamison writes: > > Brian> I think this fits within the acceptable guidelines. If not please let > Brian> me know. > > Oregon? The moon? We're in Portland. It wouldn't be the first time I've been called a loonie. -B -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20070621/c60f9837/attachment.bin From merlyn at stonehenge.com Thu Jun 21 19:38:31 2007 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:38:31 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl job with OpenSourcery In-Reply-To: <467B3603.3000800@opensourcery.com> (Brian Jamison's message of "Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:37:55 -0700") References: <467B1CD9.1020202@opensourcery.com> <86ps3oaf7m.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <467B3603.3000800@opensourcery.com> Message-ID: <86lkecaf2w.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Jamison writes: >> Oregon? The moon? Brian> We're in Portland. It wouldn't be the first time I've been called a Brian> loonie. Just saying, "not clear from your posting". -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From brian at opensourcery.com Thu Jun 21 19:44:30 2007 From: brian at opensourcery.com (Brian Jamison) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:44:30 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl job with OpenSourcery In-Reply-To: <86lkecaf2w.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <467B1CD9.1020202@opensourcery.com> <86ps3oaf7m.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <467B3603.3000800@opensourcery.com> <86lkecaf2w.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <467B378E.9080704@opensourcery.com> Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> "Brian" == Brian Jamison writes: > >>> Oregon? The moon? > > Brian> We're in Portland. It wouldn't be the first time I've been called a > Brian> loonie. > > Just saying, "not clear from your posting". Thanks! [The loonie bit entirely in jest, no offense taken] -B -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20070621/f1f4c6e5/attachment.bin From kellert at ohsu.edu Fri Jun 22 17:45:21 2007 From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas Keller) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:45:21 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl6 for Perl5 Message-ID: I know I'm a little slow on the uptake, I am just discovering some of the new and improved Perl6 modules. I wrote a little parser that used Perl6::Slurp for easy paragraph mode slurping today. And I was wondering if yo'all could recommend some of your favorite Perl6 modules for use with Perl5. thanks, Tom Keller kellert at ohsu.edu 4-2442 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20070622/aa96f35d/attachment.html From chromatic at wgz.org Sat Jun 23 01:51:53 2007 From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 01:51:53 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl6 for Perl5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200706230151.53139.chromatic@wgz.org> On Friday 22 June 2007 17:45:21 Thomas Keller wrote: > And I was wondering if yo'all could recommend some of your favorite > Perl6 modules for use with Perl5. Class::Trait, definitely. -- c From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Mon Jun 25 01:29:23 2007 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 01:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl6 for Perl5 Message-ID: <716021.38023.qm@web60824.mail.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- From: chromatic > > And I was wondering if yo'all could recommend some of your favorite > > Perl6 modules for use with Perl5. > > Class::Trait, definitely. Well, I won't say 'Class::Trait' since I maintain (though I must say that it has saved my life *lots* of grief), so I'll vote for Perl6::Junction. I don't use all of its power, but it's pretty damned handy. Cheers, Ovid From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Mon Jun 25 01:31:30 2007 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 01:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl6 for Perl5 Message-ID: <1487.43629.qm@web60822.mail.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- From: chromatic > Class::Trait, definitely. You'll also notice several bug reports on Class::Trait. Most of those are from Schwern when he was first using the module and the number of reports is not indicative of its quality. It's pretty solid. Cheers, Ovid From kellert at ohsu.edu Mon Jun 25 10:00:30 2007 From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas Keller) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:00:30 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl6 for Perl5 In-Reply-To: <716021.38023.qm@web60824.mail.yahoo.com> References: <716021.38023.qm@web60824.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0AA81264-36D1-4BEC-B6BE-FA3ECBB07725@ohsu.edu> Thanks for the suggestions. ... now we need someone to give a talk on Traits. chromatic? Schwern? Video link to Ovid? Tom Keller kellert at ohsu.edu 4-2442 On Jun 25, 2007, at 1:29 AM, Ovid wrote: > ----- Original Message ---- > From: chromatic > >>> And I was wondering if yo'all could recommend some of your favorite >>> Perl6 modules for use with Perl5. >> >> Class::Trait, definitely. > > > Well, I won't say 'Class::Trait' since I maintain (though I must > say that it has saved my life *lots* of grief), so I'll vote for > Perl6::Junction. I don't use all of its power, but it's pretty > damned handy. > > Cheers, > Ovid > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Mon Jun 25 12:48:12 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:48:12 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl6 for Perl5 In-Reply-To: <0AA81264-36D1-4BEC-B6BE-FA3ECBB07725@ohsu.edu> References: <716021.38023.qm@web60824.mail.yahoo.com> <0AA81264-36D1-4BEC-B6BE-FA3ECBB07725@ohsu.edu> Message-ID: <200706251248.12372.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Thomas Keller # on Monday 25 June 2007 10:00 am: >now we need someone to give a talk on Traits. >... Video link to Ovid? Podcast from December 2005? http://pdxpm.podasp.com/archive.html?pname=meetings.xml Ovid talked about traits starting at about 44:50 in the "Ovid/Eric/Randal" set (177.) --Eric -- The only thing that could save UNIX at this late date would be a new $30 shareware version that runs on an unexpanded Commodore 64. --Don Lancaster (1991) --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From ben.hengst at gmail.com Tue Jun 26 16:03:18 2007 From: ben.hengst at gmail.com (benh) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:03:18 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] the quest for return_if Message-ID: <85ddf48b0706261603h9852597g34d1cbd8ccfb6805@mail.gmail.com> so at work I'm trying to clean up this big decision tree and I came up with the idea to have a return_if sub... seems easy, looks clean. The plan was to take this big waterfall if-else block and start to invert the logic a bit to clean things up... this would help to reduce things to nice clean, easy to read lines. Alas I'm horribly lost and figured I would enlist some help. Ideally I would love to do this: sub return_if { my ($eval, $value) = @_; $value = $eval if !defined($value); {FROM_THE_POINT_WHERE_I_WAS_CALLED}->return $value if defined($eval); } The hard part for me is getting a sub to issue a return from where it was called from? I asked on #perl and ended up getting pointed to: Code::Splice Sub::WrapPackages Hook::LexWrap The problem is that all of these basically just inject pre and post actions to a sub... so I still can't think of how to have return_if issue a return at the point where it's called? Am I just dreaming? is this not possible? It's not like it's all that hard to just write it out long hand and it's not the end of the world if this is not possible, just one of the sticky points for the day. Figured I would share. -- benh~ From ckuskie at dalsemi.com Tue Jun 26 16:17:03 2007 From: ckuskie at dalsemi.com (Colin Kuskie) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:17:03 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] the quest for return_if In-Reply-To: <85ddf48b0706261603h9852597g34d1cbd8ccfb6805@mail.gmail.com> References: <85ddf48b0706261603h9852597g34d1cbd8ccfb6805@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200706261617.03365.ckuskie@dalsemi.com> On Tuesday 26 June 2007 16:03, benh wrote: > so at work I'm trying to clean up this big decision tree and I came up > with the idea to have a return_if sub... seems easy, looks clean. The > plan was to take this big waterfall if-else block and start to invert > the logic a bit to clean things up... this would help to reduce things > to nice clean, easy to read lines. Alas I'm horribly lost and figured > I would enlist some help. That kind of sounds like magic goto. See the last part of the goto entry in perldoc -f goto. Colin From rootbeer at redcat.com Tue Jun 26 16:32:40 2007 From: rootbeer at redcat.com (Tom Phoenix) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:32:40 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] the quest for return_if In-Reply-To: <85ddf48b0706261603h9852597g34d1cbd8ccfb6805@mail.gmail.com> References: <85ddf48b0706261603h9852597g34d1cbd8ccfb6805@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <31086b240706261632t587b808csf922f4a93d451154@mail.gmail.com> On 6/26/07, benh wrote: > Ideally I would love to do this: > > sub return_if { > my ($eval, $value) = @_; > $value = $eval if !defined($value); > {FROM_THE_POINT_WHERE_I_WAS_CALLED}->return $value if defined($eval); > } How would you use such a thing? Like this? &return_if( SOME_EXPR ); &return_if( SOME_EXPR, EXPR_TO_RETURN ); I get your idea that the sub makes the calling sub return. (What does it do if it wasn't called from a sub? Crash?) I'm thinking you really want something like this: return(SOME_EXPR err ANOTHER); Where err is the new err operator rumored to become available somewhere around 5.10, but certainly by Perl 6. It returns its left operand if that's defined, else its right operand. But it's still not quite what you're looking for, is it? There's probably some hocus pocus possible with a module to muck with Perl's return stack, but I can't recommend that. But I think what you're asking for is a new control structure, so it's a tall order. Still, you might be able to do something. Although this trick feels about as bad as using goto. sub return_if { my($value) = shift; return unless defined $value; $value = shift if @_; # uses second parameter, if given our $returnable = $value; # set the return value last; # "return" it after the calling loop block } sub extra_tricky { our $returnable = undef; { &return_if( SOME_EXPR ); &return_if( ANOTHER_ONE ); } ## last comes here ## return $returnable if $returnable; return 'default result'; } I believe most recent releases of Perl can warn you against this. With good reason. Good luck with it! --Tom Phoenix From ben.hengst at gmail.com Tue Jun 26 17:17:41 2007 From: ben.hengst at gmail.com (benh) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:17:41 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] the quest for return_if In-Reply-To: <31086b240706261632t587b808csf922f4a93d451154@mail.gmail.com> References: <85ddf48b0706261603h9852597g34d1cbd8ccfb6805@mail.gmail.com> <31086b240706261632t587b808csf922f4a93d451154@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <85ddf48b0706261717rdab6409q7864a8d04191ae28@mail.gmail.com> [colin]humm... goto looks like I could be worth a stab. [tom] the way that I was thinking of things is that it would just be shorthand for: vaule_of_function = function(); return value_of_function if defined value_of_function; so that I would not have to write things twice, also save me a line, or at least thats what started all of this. as for what would happen, the same as the normal return val if defined(val); it would return at that point or would continue to the next line. So your extra_tricky example would looks like it would always end up with 'ANOTHER_ONE' instead of the 'SOME_EXPR' like I was thinking, or would the last end the block that it was called from... if so then I guess I'm really just looking to build a last_if. any who thanks so much for the post, I'll go a poking at the code see what comes up. On 6/26/07, Tom Phoenix wrote: > On 6/26/07, benh wrote: > > > Ideally I would love to do this: > > > > sub return_if { > > my ($eval, $value) = @_; > > $value = $eval if !defined($value); > > {FROM_THE_POINT_WHERE_I_WAS_CALLED}->return $value if defined($eval); > > } > > How would you use such a thing? Like this? > > &return_if( SOME_EXPR ); > > &return_if( SOME_EXPR, EXPR_TO_RETURN ); > > I get your idea that the sub makes the calling sub return. (What does > it do if it wasn't called from a sub? Crash?) > > I'm thinking you really want something like this: > > return(SOME_EXPR err ANOTHER); > > Where err is the new err operator rumored to become available > somewhere around 5.10, but certainly by Perl 6. It returns its left > operand if that's defined, else its right operand. > > But it's still not quite what you're looking for, is it? There's > probably some hocus pocus possible with a module to muck with Perl's > return stack, but I can't recommend that. But I think what you're > asking for is a new control structure, so it's a tall order. > > Still, you might be able to do something. Although this trick feels > about as bad as using goto. > > sub return_if { > my($value) = shift; > return unless defined $value; > $value = shift if @_; # uses second parameter, if given > our $returnable = $value; # set the return value > last; # "return" it after the calling loop block > } > > sub extra_tricky { > our $returnable = undef; > { > &return_if( SOME_EXPR ); > &return_if( ANOTHER_ONE ); > } > ## last comes here ## > return $returnable if $returnable; > return 'default result'; > } > > I believe most recent releases of Perl can warn you against this. With > good reason. > > Good luck with it! > > --Tom Phoenix > -- benh~ From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Tue Jun 26 17:57:19 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:57:19 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] the quest for return_if In-Reply-To: <85ddf48b0706261717rdab6409q7864a8d04191ae28@mail.gmail.com> References: <85ddf48b0706261603h9852597g34d1cbd8ccfb6805@mail.gmail.com> <31086b240706261632t587b808csf922f4a93d451154@mail.gmail.com> <85ddf48b0706261717rdab6409q7864a8d04191ae28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200706261757.19897.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from benh # on Tuesday 26 June 2007 05:17 pm: >Ideally I would love to do this: > >sub return_if { > my ($eval, $value) = @_; > $value = $eval if !defined($value); > {FROM_THE_POINT_WHERE_I_WAS_CALLED}->return $value if > defined($eval); } That's not exactly clear. Are you trying to return the value if it is defined? That is, you're trying to get away from two-line things like: my $val = answer($param); return($val) if(defined($val)); ? Yeah, that could be tighter, but I don't recall ever being bothered by it (then again, I'm not looking at ten pages of them, are you?) The opposite is pretty concise: return() unless(defined(my $val = answer($param))); >[colin]humm... goto looks like I could be worth a stab. Probably want to avoid that. Any goto besides gosub (goto &subname) is typically asking for trouble and gosub doesn't really apply here. Sounds like you're asking for a macro of some sort. Since this is not C, maybe try looking at it from a different POV. If it is a big list of methods without any intermediate code, you could just do something like: foreach my $method (@methods) { my $val = $self->$method; return($val) if(defined($val)); } You can do that with functions too, but you have to turn off strict or make @methods be a list of references to the functions (or anonymous subs with the values curried (curried?.)) my @funcs = ( sub {this_one($foo, @_)}, sub {that_one($bar, @_)}, sub {the_next($baz, $bar, $foo, @_)}, ); foreach my $func (@funcs) { my $ans = $func->(@extra_params); return($ans) if(defined($ans)); } Or use a source filter ;-) --Eric -- Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem. --Occam's Razor --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From tex at off.org Tue Jun 26 21:28:46 2007 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:28:46 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] the quest for return_if In-Reply-To: <200706261757.19897.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <85ddf48b0706261603h9852597g34d1cbd8ccfb6805@mail.gmail.com> <31086b240706261632t587b808csf922f4a93d451154@mail.gmail.com> <85ddf48b0706261717rdab6409q7864a8d04191ae28@mail.gmail.com> <200706261757.19897.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <20070627042846.GO3746@gblx.net> On Tue, Jun 26, 2007 at 05:57:19PM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > # from benh > # on Tuesday 26 June 2007 05:17 pm: > > >Ideally I would love to do this: > > > >sub return_if { > > my ($eval, $value) = @_; > > $value = $eval if !defined($value); > > {FROM_THE_POINT_WHERE_I_WAS_CALLED}->return $value if > > defined($eval); } > > That's not exactly clear. Are you trying to return the value if it is > defined? That is, you're trying to get away from two-line things like: > > my $val = answer($param); > return($val) if(defined($val)); > > ? > > Yeah, that could be tighter, but I don't recall ever being bothered by > it (then again, I'm not looking at ten pages of them, are you?) > > The opposite is pretty concise: > > return() unless(defined(my $val = answer($param))); > I believe the intent is to do something like assert( test() ); and be able to have the return portion automatic. If you understand what is meant it is far more concise. But the language doesn't cleanly support it- which may be a boon, since it would be surprising behavior. I had at one point had the same wish, but something that fundamental to the operation of the interpreter would be very hard to bolt on cleanly. Well, unless you are a lot more clever than I am. If true/false will work for you, you can distill it to a simple test case: assert( test() ) or return; If testing defined(): defined(assert(test())) or return; Basically all variations on the theme of Eric's response. Austin From MichaelRWolf at att.net Wed Jun 27 04:47:22 2007 From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:47:22 -0400 Subject: [Pdx-pm] the quest for return_if In-Reply-To: <85ddf48b0706261717rdab6409q7864a8d04191ae28@mail.gmail.com> References: <85ddf48b0706261603h9852597g34d1cbd8ccfb6805@mail.gmail.com><31086b240706261632t587b808csf922f4a93d451154@mail.gmail.com> <85ddf48b0706261717rdab6409q7864a8d04191ae28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000301c7b8b0$f28cb110$3200000a@mlaptop> > vaule_of_function = function(); > return value_of_function if defined value_of_function; This refactors to "non-magic"[1] Perl[2]: return $rc if defined($rc = function()); Is there anyone on this list working on Perl6 continuations? Any comment on the proposed return_if "flow control"? Is it more like an exception or more like spaghetti? Notes: 1. for the definition of "non-magic" that includes folks knowing that assignment returns a value 2. something to consider for the folks who have to maintain the code when you get hit by a bus (or another job offer) -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRWolf at att.net From ben.hengst at gmail.com Wed Jun 27 07:59:27 2007 From: ben.hengst at gmail.com (benh) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:59:27 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] the quest for return_if In-Reply-To: <20070627042846.GO3746@gblx.net> References: <85ddf48b0706261603h9852597g34d1cbd8ccfb6805@mail.gmail.com> <31086b240706261632t587b808csf922f4a93d451154@mail.gmail.com> <85ddf48b0706261717rdab6409q7864a8d04191ae28@mail.gmail.com> <200706261757.19897.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <20070627042846.GO3746@gblx.net> Message-ID: <85ddf48b0706270759i237db146ta75c9d5fd72c78a4@mail.gmail.com> austin that looks perfect. now off to work and see how well my day goes because of it. I never really though about useing the testing suit. On 6/26/07, Austin Schutz wrote: > On Tue, Jun 26, 2007 at 05:57:19PM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > > # from benh > > # on Tuesday 26 June 2007 05:17 pm: > > > > >Ideally I would love to do this: > > > > > >sub return_if { > > > my ($eval, $value) = @_; > > > $value = $eval if !defined($value); > > > {FROM_THE_POINT_WHERE_I_WAS_CALLED}->return $value if > > > defined($eval); } > > > > That's not exactly clear. Are you trying to return the value if it is > > defined? That is, you're trying to get away from two-line things like: > > > > my $val = answer($param); > > return($val) if(defined($val)); > > > > ? > > > > Yeah, that could be tighter, but I don't recall ever being bothered by > > it (then again, I'm not looking at ten pages of them, are you?) > > > > The opposite is pretty concise: > > > > return() unless(defined(my $val = answer($param))); > > > > I believe the intent is to do something like > > assert( test() ); > > and be able to have the return portion automatic. If you understand > what is meant it is far more concise. But the language doesn't cleanly > support it- which may be a boon, since it would be surprising behavior. I had > at one point had the same wish, but something that fundamental to the > operation of the interpreter would be very hard to bolt on cleanly. Well, > unless you are a lot more clever than I am. > > If true/false will work for you, you can distill it to a simple test > case: > > assert( test() ) or return; > > If testing defined(): > > defined(assert(test())) or return; > > > Basically all variations on the theme of Eric's response. > > > Austin > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > -- benh~ From raanders at acm.org Wed Jun 27 08:18:10 2007 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:18:10 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] POE start-up suggestions Message-ID: <46827FB2.5040706@acm.org> Though it's not strictly Perl this seems like a good place to start. I'll hit PLUG later or next. I'm in the process of building a POE server at work for a light duty service. It's pretty close to being usable so now I could some suggestions on how to start the service when the system comes up. We typically run Fedora Core 5 ( in Linux-Vserver guests ) so something System V-ish verses BSD-ish is preferred. Ideally, some way, when Apache is starting would be be the ultimate cool since the main application is developed using Catalyst. And before it comes up we reviewed the option of building it as part of the Cat application but decided it was used too little to warrant putting it, and it's overhead, in the main application. Plus it could be moved to another system if the need arose. TIA, Rod -- From sdeckelmann at chrisking.com Wed Jun 27 10:46:20 2007 From: sdeckelmann at chrisking.com (Selena Deckelmann) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:46:20 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] documenting spaghetti code Message-ID: Hello, Apologies if this is a really dumb question. I have some really horrific code (in C) that I need to make a few changes to. Unfortunately, I must learn how most of the code works before I make the changes. There are about 20k lines, there is no test suite and the code is largely undocumented. I'm also working with some engineers who are not programmers, but need to know how the software works in order to make intelligent suggestions on improving it (it is a physical process, run by a microcontroller). I am struggling with how to document the code in a way that is helpful to us all. I did find some code beautifiers to make reading a bit less painful. For the docs, I've started by making a flowchart that walks through the logic and identifies which files subroutines can be found in. Is this what I should be doing? Am I doing way too much work? Is there some really awesome perl tool that maps out a function/tree structure for me? Is there some other way to do this? thanks, selena From alan at clueserver.org Wed Jun 27 10:50:14 2007 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] documenting spaghetti code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2007, Selena Deckelmann wrote: > Hello, > > Apologies if this is a really dumb question. > > I have some really horrific code (in C) that I need to make a few > changes to. Unfortunately, I must learn how most of the code works > before I make the changes. There are about 20k lines, there is no > test suite and the code is largely undocumented. > > I'm also working with some engineers who are not programmers, but > need to know how the software works in order to make intelligent > suggestions on improving it (it is a physical process, run by a > microcontroller). > > I am struggling with how to document the code in a way that is > helpful to us all. I did find some code beautifiers to make reading a > bit less painful. > > For the docs, I've started by making a flowchart that walks through > the logic and identifies which files subroutines can be found in. Is > this what I should be doing? Am I doing way too much work? Is there > some really awesome perl tool that maps out a function/tree structure > for me? Is there some other way to do this? You might want to try Sparse. Not a Perl tool, but it can generate structure graphs among other things. http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/devel/sparse/ -- "ANSI C says access to the padding fields of a struct is undefined. ANSI C also says that struct assignment is a memcpy. Therefore struct assignment in ANSI C is a violation of ANSI C..." - Alan Cox From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jun 28 18:26:24 2007 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (The Dread Parrot) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 18:26:24 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: Apress User Group Newsletter -- June 2007 Message-ID: <200706281826.25154.ewilhelm@cpan.org> ---------- Forwarded Message: ---------- Subject: Apress User Group Newsletter -- June 2007 Date: Thursday 28 June 2007 02:55 pm From: Apress Newsletters Your email application doesn't appear to be displaying the HTML version of our newsletter. You can view it online here: http://apress.com/newsletter/67/ ------------------------------------------------------- -- http://pdx.pm.org