From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Sep  7 13:01:50 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Seven till Seven)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 13:01:50 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] ANNOUNCE:  Craftsmanship Panel -- Sept 13th, 6:53pm
Message-ID: <200609071301.50283.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Most Esteemed Mongers of Perl,

Set your calculator watch alarms now!  The next meeting (one week from 
yesterday) will be a panel on Craftsmanship.

Update:  The panel will consist of three very experienced and talented 
individuals, all of whom have some enlightening thoughts about 
craftsmanship and software.  More information below.

  hacker:     David Wheeler
  machinist:  Dan Falck
  writer:     David Levine

INGREDIENTS:

  3 difficult questions
  1 hacker
  1 machinist
  1 writer
  24 oz. water (ice to suit)
  10-30 slides, miscellaneous props

PREPARATION:

  Introduce the panel, water as needed.  Stuff with questions and
  grill on hot coals for 45-60 minutes, until the answers run clear.
  Garnish with slides and props.

  Remove from grill and serve with locally brewed beer.

THE PANEL:

David Wheeler is principal of Kineticode, an open-source software  
development and support company. Best known as the maintainer of the  
Bricolage CMS, he is lately hacking object-relational mappers,  
developing an integrated query language for Perl, and creating custom  
PostgreSQL data types.

Dan Falck is a guitar and bass player who is into music of all kinds.
By day, he works for King Cycle Group on tooling design, shop equipment,
project planning, and QC -- which is like riding a bike after 14 years
at Gibson Guitar.  Dan shares his lifelong joy of woodworking with his
wife of 15 years and their kids (ages 8, 12, and 14.)  He also finds
time to machine and engrave guitar parts using linux-powered CNC,
program in Python, and peruse the FORTRAN^W C code of an APT processor.

David D. Levine is an award-winning science fiction writer.  His stories
have been published in such magazines as Asimov's, Fantasy & Science
Fiction, and Realms of Fantasy, and 3 of them have appeared in Year's
Best anthologies.  He recently won the Hugo Award for his story
"Tk'Tk'Tk." [http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0604_5/tk.shtml] In his day
job he is a user interface designer for McAfee; he has also worked as a
software engineer and as a technical writer.  His web page is at
www.bentopress.com.

--Your Humble King
-- 

        http://pdx.pm.org

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Sep  7 21:49:10 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (The Dread Parrot)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:49:10 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: Apress UG Discount to "Future of Web Apps" Conference
Message-ID: <200609072149.10634.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

It even happens in the future.

--Eric
----------  Forwarded Message:  ----------

Subject: Apress UG Discount to "Future of Web Apps" Conference
Date: Thursday 07 September 2006 04:37 pm
From: Apress Newsletters <newsletters at apress.com>
To: scratchcomputing at gmail.com

Dear Registered Apress User Groups,

Apress is supporting The Future of Web Apps conference
 (http://www.carsonworkshops.com/summit/)--an event for the web
 development community taking place on September 13-14, 2006, in San
 Francisco. (Click the link and take a look at the list of renowned
 speakers!)

In return, Carson Workshops (the folks who are putting on this summit)
 will help support the Apress community by *offering you 10% off the
 registration fee.* Whether you're in the area or are willing to
 travel, we hope you will be able to attend.

If you would like more information about The Future of Web Apps, please
 contact Stephanie Parker at stephanie at apress.com and take advantage of
 this deal.

To be removed from the Apress user group newsletter mailing list,
 please click here:
 http://www.apress.com/misc/optout2.html?e=scratchcomputing%40gmail.com
&h=71b0bd41eb1b7557e96c4268834d0ecc&l=22

Thank you,

The Apress Marketing Team

-------------------------------------------------------

-- 

        http://pdx.pm.org

From keithl at kl-ic.com  Fri Sep  8 05:06:21 2006
From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:06:21 +0000
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Mac OS-X as Unix - any presenters available?
Message-ID: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>


This is off topic.

Many local Perl mongers sport Mac laptops, and among these are folk
with deep knowledge of the Unix nature of the newer OS-X machines.

Such knowledge would make an interesting presentation to the monthly
Advanced Topics meeting run by the Portland Linux/Unix Group on the
3rd Monday of each month.  The first open slot is October 16, the
next is December 18 ( September 18 will be about Eclipse, and
November 20 will be Cory Doctorow ).

Personally, I am not so interested in why a Mac is superior (or not)
to other systems, but more in the significant and subtle differences
between the way Mac does Unix, versus Linux or stock BSD .  For
example, I imagine many Linux sysadmins will stumble over issues
with resource forks, or with differing approaches to config files.
Since there are some big shops going to a mixture of Mac and Linux
(for example, Laika, which is hiring like crazy), this is a topical
and important subject.

This is not directly Perl related, though I can imagine Perl would
be a handy tool to fix up some of the problems in these mixed shops.

Any volunteers for an Advanced Topics presentation?  I imagine a
refined version of such a talk would be suitable for OSCON 2007.

Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom          keithl at keithl.com         Voice (503)-520-1993
KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon"
Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Fri Sep  8 12:41:35 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:41:35 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Mac OS-X as Unix - any presenters available?
In-Reply-To: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
References: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
Message-ID: <200609081241.35447.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Keith Lofstrom
# on Friday 08 September 2006 05:06 am:

>Personally, I am not so interested in why a Mac is superior (or not)
>to other systems, but more in the significant and subtle differences
>between the way Mac does Unix, versus Linux or stock BSD

It would of course have to start with the differences between linux and 
stock BSD (e.g. "ls foo -l" vs "ls -l foo" and of course "gls foo -l".)  
In my (a bit limited) experience, BSD is just like linux with some of 
the conveniences removed and Mac is just like BSD minus some 
efficiencies.

I could contribute observations about WxPerl and persistent NFS mounts 
on the Mac, but not much else at the moment.

It should finish by covering installation of linux on intel macs :-)

--Eric
-- 
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
--Occam's Razor
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From selena at chrisking.com  Fri Sep  8 13:02:47 2006
From: selena at chrisking.com (Selena Deckelmann)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:02:47 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Mac OS-X as Unix - any presenters available?
In-Reply-To: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
References: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
Message-ID: <7424330cd141462afb87d06899905c9d@chrisking.com>


I'm interested in going to the talk, but not presenting.  I think my 
situation is a little unusual -- we use OS X for our core servers and 
try to wedge windows and linux boxes in from time to time. I think most 
folks are trying to integrate one-off Macs or a group of client 
workstations in with a windows or Linux core.  The sysadmin, 
integration and performance problems you run into are pretty different.

That is a great idea for a talk, though, Keith.

-selena

On Sep 8, 2006, at 5:06 AM, Keith Lofstrom wrote:

>
> This is off topic.
>
> Many local Perl mongers sport Mac laptops, and among these are folk
> with deep knowledge of the Unix nature of the newer OS-X machines.
>
> Such knowledge would make an interesting presentation to the monthly
> Advanced Topics meeting run by the Portland Linux/Unix Group on the
> 3rd Monday of each month.  The first open slot is October 16, the
> next is December 18 ( September 18 will be about Eclipse, and
> November 20 will be Cory Doctorow ).
>
> Personally, I am not so interested in why a Mac is superior (or not)
> to other systems, but more in the significant and subtle differences
> between the way Mac does Unix, versus Linux or stock BSD .  For
> example, I imagine many Linux sysadmins will stumble over issues
> with resource forks, or with differing approaches to config files.
> Since there are some big shops going to a mixture of Mac and Linux
> (for example, Laika, which is hiring like crazy), this is a topical
> and important subject.
>
> This is not directly Perl related, though I can imagine Perl would
> be a handy tool to fix up some of the problems in these mixed shops.
>
> Any volunteers for an Advanced Topics presentation?  I imagine a
> refined version of such a talk would be suitable for OSCON 2007.
>
> Keith
>
> -- 
> Keith Lofstrom          keithl at keithl.com         Voice (503)-520-1993
> KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon"
> Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
>
--
Selena Deckelmann
Information Systems Manager
Chris King Precision Components
www.chrisking.com / 503.972.4050 x230


From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Fri Sep  8 13:04:45 2006
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 08 Sep 2006 13:04:45 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Mac OS-X as Unix - any presenters available?
In-Reply-To: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
References: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
Message-ID: <8664fyjfaa.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Lofstrom <keithl at kl-ic.com> writes:

Keith> Many local Perl mongers sport Mac laptops, and among these are folk
Keith> with deep knowledge of the Unix nature of the newer OS-X machines.


Keith> Any volunteers for an Advanced Topics presentation?  I imagine a
Keith> refined version of such a talk would be suitable for OSCON 2007.

I have a two-hour presentation called "unix for mac geeks", but I think
that's the reverse of what you want.

I *do* have a pretty good handle on that unix thingy though.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Fri Sep  8 13:06:24 2006
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 08 Sep 2006 13:06:24 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Mac OS-X as Unix - any presenters available?
In-Reply-To: <200609081241.35447.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<200609081241.35447.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <861wqmjf7j.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> writes:

Eric> In my (a bit limited) experience, BSD is just like linux with some of 
Eric> the conveniences removed

I'm sorry, I think you mean "GNU abominations not yet hacked in"

Eric>  and Mac is just like BSD minus some efficiencies.

and for "minus...", you really mean "plus a far better desktop presentation".

:-)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From kellert at ohsu.edu  Fri Sep  8 13:09:18 2006
From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas J Keller)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:09:18 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Mac OS-X as Unix - any presenters available?
In-Reply-To: <7424330cd141462afb87d06899905c9d@chrisking.com>
References: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<7424330cd141462afb87d06899905c9d@chrisking.com>
Message-ID: <F8FD442F-4492-4CFA-A5AE-DE5ABB048A1A@ohsu.edu>

Where are these meetings located?

On Sep 8, 2006, at 1:02 PM, Selena Deckelmann wrote:

>> September 18

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From chromatic at wgz.org  Fri Sep  8 13:12:19 2006
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:12:19 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Mac OS-X as Unix - any presenters available?
In-Reply-To: <861wqmjf7j.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<200609081241.35447.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<861wqmjf7j.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <200609081312.19869.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Friday 08 September 2006 13:06, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

> >>>>> "Eric" == Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> writes:
>
> Eric> In my (a bit limited) experience, BSD is just like linux with some of
> Eric> the conveniences removed
>
> I'm sorry, I think you mean "GNU abominations not yet hacked in"
>
> Eric>  and Mac is just like BSD minus some efficiencies.
>
> and for "minus...", you really mean "plus a far better desktop
> presentation".

Your previous message was correct; this *is* completely backwards!

Ha ha only serious,
-- c

From alan at clueserver.org  Fri Sep  8 13:12:46 2006
From: alan at clueserver.org (alan)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:12:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Mac OS-X as Unix - any presenters available?
In-Reply-To: <8664fyjfaa.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<8664fyjfaa.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0609081312170.16451@blackbox.fnordora.org>

On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

>>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Lofstrom <keithl at kl-ic.com> writes:
>
> Keith> Many local Perl mongers sport Mac laptops, and among these are folk
> Keith> with deep knowledge of the Unix nature of the newer OS-X machines.
>
>
> Keith> Any volunteers for an Advanced Topics presentation?  I imagine a
> Keith> refined version of such a talk would be suitable for OSCON 2007.
>
> I have a two-hour presentation called "unix for mac geeks", but I think
> that's the reverse of what you want.
>
> I *do* have a pretty good handle on that unix thingy though.

Do you want October 16th?

Is your Git talk ready?

-- 
"Oh, Joel Miller, you've just found the marble in the oatmeal. You're a
lucky, lucky, lucky little boy. 'Cause you know why? You get to drink
from... the FIRE HOOOOOSE!"
         - The Stanley Spudoski guide to mailing list administration

From alan at clueserver.org  Fri Sep  8 13:26:28 2006
From: alan at clueserver.org (alan)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:26:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Mac OS-X as Unix - any presenters available?
In-Reply-To: <200609081312.19869.chromatic@wgz.org>
References: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<200609081241.35447.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<861wqmjf7j.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<200609081312.19869.chromatic@wgz.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0609081326070.16451@blackbox.fnordora.org>

On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, chromatic wrote:

> On Friday 08 September 2006 13:06, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>
>>>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> Eric> In my (a bit limited) experience, BSD is just like linux with some of
>> Eric> the conveniences removed
>>
>> I'm sorry, I think you mean "GNU abominations not yet hacked in"
>>
>> Eric>  and Mac is just like BSD minus some efficiencies.
>>
>> and for "minus...", you really mean "plus a far better desktop
>> presentation".
>
> Your previous message was correct; this *is* completely backwards!
>
> Ha ha only serious,

"You can't have BDSM without BSD."

-- 
"Oh, Joel Miller, you've just found the marble in the oatmeal. You're a
lucky, lucky, lucky little boy. 'Cause you know why? You get to drink
from... the FIRE HOOOOOSE!"
         - The Stanley Spudoski guide to mailing list administration

From keithl at kl-ic.com  Fri Sep  8 06:41:17 2006
From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:41:17 +0000
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Also OT:  Plug Advanced Topics (Was Mac OS-X as Unix)
In-Reply-To: <F8FD442F-4492-4CFA-A5AE-DE5ABB048A1A@ohsu.edu>
References: <20060908120621.GA13440@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<7424330cd141462afb87d06899905c9d@chrisking.com>
	<F8FD442F-4492-4CFA-A5AE-DE5ABB048A1A@ohsu.edu>
Message-ID: <20060908134117.GA13886@gate.kl-ic.com>


In a festive off-topic spirit, Thomas J Keller wrote:
> Where are these meetings located?

The Portland Linux/Unix Group, PLUG, has three meetings per month.

The Advanced Topics meeting is on the third Monday of the month,
at Jax Bar, at 826 SW 2nd Avenue near the light rail.  Our room
at Jax is smoke free and wifi polluted.  Meetings start at 7pm
and run until the speaker is too inebriated to stand.  The motto
of A.T. is "there IS such a thing as a stupid question".  Randal
has given many good talks to Advanced Topics, and I am still
alive thanks to his forbearance with the clue hammer.

The General meeting is the first Thursday of the month at Portland
State University from 7pm until approximately 9.  We usually meet
in one of the rooms on the second floor of Smith Center (check the
schedule boards, or just follow the unstylish guys with the glasses). 
Afterwards, we adjourn to the Lab until midnight or so.  Topics
are less technical;  last night we had a presentation on the open
source vector drawing tool, Inkscape .

The Clinic is on the third Sunday at Free Geek from 1pm to 5. 
People drag in their Linux machines with problems, and we fix
them and send them home with different problems.  Please bring
your Fry's $3 special windows-only wireless card, so we can
apply the clue hammer to it.  I hope we can become aware enough
of Mac OS-X to mess with those machines, too.

Current schedules and information are sporadically updated on the
PLUG website at www.pdxlinux.org .  PLUG is easy to join; if you
say you're a member, you're a member.  Quitting is easy, too:
just start another group named "PLUG".

Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom          keithl at keithl.com         Voice (503)-520-1993
KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon"
Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs

From krisb at ring.org  Fri Sep  8 13:41:23 2006
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:41:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] MAC questions
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609081337040.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>


	Since there seems like lots of MAC users on the list...

I am looking at getting MAC mini's for my kids.  I expect they will be
less virus-prone than windows computers and I like that the mini is small,
quiet, portable, and stylish (I haven't decided if I will put them in the
kids room or the livingroom/library).

Does anyone have any reccomendations for educational software, or other
dos/don'ts for kids on a MAC?  I presume I can give them accounts and keep
root for myself.  Has anyone tried out Firefox or Camino?

Thanks.

-Kris


From ben.hengst at gmail.com  Fri Sep  8 14:18:06 2006
From: ben.hengst at gmail.com (benh)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:18:06 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] MAC questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609081337040.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609081337040.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <85ddf48b0609081418h30a09578y36854be16c8d3437@mail.gmail.com>

I dont know about edu-soft (kinda depends on what your looking for),
though I can chime in about FF and Camino. Firefox runs on a mac just
like it would on windows, the only real diff that I've noticed is the
CMD key swap ("APPLE" vs "CTRL") and that some plugins are platform
specific, other then that, they feel the same, they work the same.
Camino is the mozilla backend with a naitve UI. This has the added
benifit or 1) looking more macish and 2) being some what faster, the
problem is that because your not using XUL you dont have access to all
the FF extentions. For me this is a bigger problem, so the beinifits
are not worth it, but if your just looking to surf, it runs just fine.
Theres also Safari, again it works, but like Camino, it's just a
browser.

Hope that helps, if not, or if there are more questions feel free to ask.

benh~

On 9/8/06, Kris Bosland <krisb at ring.org> wrote:
>
>         Since there seems like lots of MAC users on the list...
>
> I am looking at getting MAC mini's for my kids.  I expect they will be
> less virus-prone than windows computers and I like that the mini is small,
> quiet, portable, and stylish (I haven't decided if I will put them in the
> kids room or the livingroom/library).
>
> Does anyone have any reccomendations for educational software, or other
> dos/don'ts for kids on a MAC?  I presume I can give them accounts and keep
> root for myself.  Has anyone tried out Firefox or Camino?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Kris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Fri Sep  8 14:59:43 2006
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 08 Sep 2006 14:59:43 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] MAC questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609081337040.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609081337040.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <86odtqhve8.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Kris" == Kris Bosland <krisb at ring.org> writes:

Kris>   Has anyone tried out Firefox or Camino?

The biggest problem with Firefox on the Mac is that it's very un-mac-like.  It
doesn't support the services menu, the network proxy settings, or the cocoa
editing keys in fields (^A for beginning of line, ^E for end, etc, stolen from
Emacs).  I also have trouble with both Firefox and Thunderbird on the Mac not
computing the width of fonts correctly, which makes typing into a long field
very very hard.

I gave up on Camino a long time ago.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From darthsmily at verizon.net  Sat Sep  9 23:29:20 2006
From: darthsmily at verizon.net (darthsmily)
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 23:29:20 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] MAC questions
In-Reply-To: <86odtqhve8.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609081337040.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
	<86odtqhve8.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <4503B0C0.9010401@verizon.net>

Weren't those mainframe editing keys before emacs?


Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

>>>>>>"Kris" == Kris Bosland <krisb at ring.org> writes:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>
>Kris>   Has anyone tried out Firefox or Camino?
>
>The biggest problem with Firefox on the Mac is that it's very un-mac-like.  It
>doesn't support the services menu, the network proxy settings, or the cocoa
>editing keys in fields (^A for beginning of line, ^E for end, etc, stolen from
>Emacs).  I also have trouble with both Firefox and Thunderbird on the Mac not
>computing the width of fonts correctly, which makes typing into a long field
>very very hard.
>
>I gave up on Camino a long time ago.
>
>  
>

From xrdawson at gmail.com  Tue Sep 12 15:12:02 2006
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:12:02 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] [PDX.rb] Craftsmanship Panel -- pdx.pm
In-Reply-To: <200609121457.09545.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200609121429.58587.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20060912213424.GA16605@jeeves.bleything.net>
	<200609121457.09545.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30609121512w2ed33abbp39605b8f71074981@mail.gmail.com>

I think I can bring along the wireless microphone (which you all paid
for) and do a podcast of the event from my laptop.

Chris

On 9/12/06, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
> # from Ben Bleything
> # on Tuesday 12 September 2006 02:34 pm:
>
> >On Tue, Sep 12, 2006, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >Damn, I really wish I could make it.
>
> Bah! Hairwasher!
>
> :-)
>
> >Do you guys do podcasts or anything like that?
>
> We try.  Hopefully we'll have something up next week.
>
> --Eric
> --
> "But as to modern architecture, let us drop it and let us take
> modernistic out and shoot it at sunrise."
> --F.L. Wright
> ---------------------------------------------------
>     http://scratchcomputing.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> PDXRuby mailing list
> PDXRuby at lists.pdxruby.org
> IRC: #pdx.rb on irc.freenode.net
> http://lists.pdxruby.org/mailman/listinfo/pdxruby
>

From schwern at gmail.com  Tue Sep 12 19:09:39 2006
From: schwern at gmail.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 22:09:39 -0400
Subject: [Pdx-pm] MAC questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609081337040.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609081337040.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <45076863.8000602@gmail.com>

Kris Bosland wrote:
> 	Since there seems like lots of MAC users on the list...

s/MAC/Mac/g

> I am looking at getting MAC mini's for my kids.  I expect they will be
> less virus-prone than windows computers and I like that the mini is small,
> quiet, portable, and stylish (I haven't decided if I will put them in the
> kids room or the livingroom/library).

Yes, there are pretty much no viruses.  Not even through the browser.  You have to be talented to get a virus onto a Mac.


> Does anyone have any reccomendations for educational software, or other
> dos/don'ts for kids on a MAC?  I presume I can give them accounts and keep
> root for myself.

Yes, you can give them accounts and limit their access.  It even has built in parental controls for certain common apps.


> Has anyone tried out Firefox or Camino?

Firefox works fine, its my primary browser.  Its a little unmacish but only a little these days.  And a new Mac user is unlikely to notice.  Safari (Apple's browser) is also good.  Camino isn't worth the trouble.

My girlfriend Kelli gave her kid a Mini for her 6th birthday.  I asked her about it.  She sez:

* Internet protection?
  Stage one:  Why does a kid need Internet access?  Pull the plug.
  Stage two:  Setup a whitelist and introduce sites one at a time.
  Stage three:  When you think you can trust your kid, open up the connection.  
  Be there with your kid.  "Once you trust them go ahead and let them surf for porn"

* Software:
  Spongebob Squarepants: Typing
  Marble Blast (comes with the machine I think)
  Chess
  Jumpstart educational software
  (Reader Rabbit wasn't a hit)
  Kidpix

* Its a CD/DVD player so she can watch movies and listen to music in her room.  If you don't
  trust your kid to leave the computer off after bedtime this might be a problem.

* Don't put anything on the machine that you're afraid to lose because something will happen
  and you'll have to wipe the drive.  Kids find ways to break things.

* Screensavers make good nightlights.

* Potential for video game addiction.  Be smart, be a good parent.  Know what your kids are doing with their time.  (I know I stayed up late playing video games when I was a kid and had a Commodore 64 in my room --Schwern)

* Whether you put it in their room or in a family room is how much you trust your kid and how you want to monitor their use.  Kelli had a computer for her kid in the common room until she was six, then it moved into the kid's room.  To start you might want to keep it out in the common room to better encourage good computer habits.

* Clean most of the applications off of the dock (quick launch bar) and put the kid's software.


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Wed Sep 13 09:38:38 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Seven till Seven)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:38:38 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Craftsmanship Panel -- tonight!
Message-ID: <200609130938.38330.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Tonight!  Sept 13th, 6:53pm at Free Geek -- 1731 SE 10th Ave.

The Panel on Craftsmanship consists of three very experienced and 
talented individuals, all of whom have some enlightening thoughts about 
craftsmanship and software.  More information below.

  hacker:     David Wheeler
  machinist:  Dan Falck
  writer:     David Levine

The questions will be at least as hard as:

  o In a world of rough carpentry, does craftsmanship matter?
  o The bottom line is important, but which one?
  o What effect does open-source have?

INGREDIENTS:

  3 difficult questions
  1 hacker
  1 machinist
  1 writer
  24 oz. water (ice to suit)
  10-30 slides, miscellaneous props

PREPARATION:

  Introduce the panel, water as needed.  Stuff with questions and
  grill on hot coals for 45-60 minutes, until the answers run clear.
  Garnish with slides and props.

  Remove from grill and serve with locally brewed beer.

THE PANEL:

David Wheeler is principal of Kineticode, an open-source software  
development and support company. Best known as the maintainer of the  
Bricolage CMS, he is lately hacking object-relational mappers,  
developing an integrated query language for Perl, and creating custom  
PostgreSQL data types.

Dan Falck is a guitar and bass player who is into music of all kinds.
By day, he works for King Cycle Group on tooling design, shop equipment,
project planning, and QC -- which is like riding a bike after 14 years
at Gibson Guitar.  Dan shares his lifelong joy of woodworking with his
wife of 15 years and their kids (ages 8, 12, and 14.)  He also finds
time to machine and engrave guitar parts using linux-powered CNC,
program in Python, and peruse the FORTRAN^W C code of an APT processor.

David D. Levine is an award-winning science fiction writer.  His stories
have been published in such magazines as Asimov's, Fantasy & Science
Fiction, and Realms of Fantasy, and 3 of them have appeared in Year's
Best anthologies.  He recently won the Hugo Award for his story
"Tk'Tk'Tk." [http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0604_5/tk.shtml] In his day
job he is a user interface designer for McAfee; he has also worked as a
software engineer and as a technical writer.  His web page is at
www.bentopress.com.

--Eric the Zamboni Driver
-- 

        http://pdx.pm.org

From xrdawson at gmail.com  Thu Sep 14 14:04:26 2006
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:04:26 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] [PDX.rb] Craftsmanship Panel -- pdx.pm
In-Reply-To: <20060912221053.GB18444@jeeves.bleything.net>
References: <200609121429.58587.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20060912213424.GA16605@jeeves.bleything.net>
	<200609121457.09545.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20060912221053.GB18444@jeeves.bleything.net>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30609141404j2bd10d80na7aa10b9c4fcbded@mail.gmail.com>

Podcast is up:

http://podasp.com:8000/P/PD/PDX.pm/1013.mp3.m3u

http://pdxpm.podasp.com/
http://pdxpm.podasp.com/archive.html?pname=meetings.xml

Great discussion.  Eric, I'm definitely impressed with the fresh
energy and ideas you bring to the group.

Chris

On 9/12/06, Ben Bleything <ben at bleything.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2006, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> > >Damn, I really wish I could make it.
> >
> > Bah! Hairwasher!
>
> Hey, if I didn't live 90 miles away...
>
> > >Do you guys do podcasts or anything like that?
> >
> > We try.  Hopefully we'll have something up next week.
>
> Excellent.  I'd love to hear it if it's available.
>
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> PDXRuby mailing list
> PDXRuby at lists.pdxruby.org
> IRC: #pdx.rb on irc.freenode.net
> http://lists.pdxruby.org/mailman/listinfo/pdxruby
>

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sun Sep 17 09:26:39 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (The Dread Parrot)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:26:39 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, September 14
Message-ID: <200609170926.40375.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

(trying this again without the .net and java sections to see if that 
makes it small enough to go through to the list...)

the highlights (see below (maybe way,way,way below) for more details)

Wanted:
Slashdot and Amazon Reviewers for "Ubuntu Linux for Non-Geeks"

Books: (bit short on perl at the moment, eh?)
-Ajax and Web Services (PDF)
-Classic LEGO Mindstorms Projects and Software Tools
-Code Craft (wow, how topical!)
-Hacking the Cable Modem
-How to Cheat at Windows System Administration Using Command Line
 Scripts
-Mac OS X Tiger Server Administration (PDF)
-Running Mac OS X on Windows (PDF)
-SQL Hacks: Rough Cuts Version
-Ubuntu Linux for Non-Geeks
-Visual Basic 2005 Cookbook

Events:
-chromatic ("Perl Testing: A Developer's Notebook" and "Perl
 Hacks") at the Seattle Perl Users Seattle, WA--September 19
-C.J. Date ("The Relational Database Dictionary" and "Database in
 Depth") at the Data Management Association, Beaverton, OR--
 October 4

Open Source:
-Unit Testing Your Documentation
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2006/09/07/unit-testing-docs.html
-Understanding Newlines
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2006/08/17/understanding-newlines.html

Mac:
-A Briefing on Synching
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/09/05/synching.html

Web:
-Advanced Accessibility Techniques
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/accessibility-techniques

--Eric
----------  Forwarded Message:  ----------
================================================================
-Looking for Slashdot and Amazon Reviewers for "Ubuntu Linux for
 Non-Geeks"
-Put Up a MAKE or CRAFT Banner, Get a Free Book
----------------------------------------------------------------
Book Info
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Review Books are Available
Copies of our books are available for your members to review--just send
me an email to request books and and please include the book's ISBN
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***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews
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----------------------------------------------------------------
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If you or one of your group members can write a review, let me know.
I'll send you a copy right away.

***Put Up an MAKE or CRAFT Banner, Get a Free Book
We're looking for user groups to display our magazine banners on their
web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with one or
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<http://www.makezine.com/usergroups/banners/>

CRAFT Banners (Craft comes out in October 2006):
<http://www.craftzine.com/usergroups/banners/>

================================================================
O'Reilly News for User Group Members
September 14, 2006
================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------
New Releases
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Ajax and Web Services (PDF)
-ASP.NET 2.0 Black Book
-Classic LEGO Mindstorms Projects and Software Tools
-Code Craft
-Designing and Building Enterprise DMZs
-Enemy at the Water Cooler
-Essential Computer Security: Everyone's Guide to Email, Internet, and
 Wireless Security
-Firewall Policies and VPN Configurations
-Getting Started with .NET 3.0 (PDF)
-Getting Started with Atlas (PDF)
-Getting Started with Hibernate 3 (PDF)
-Hacking the Cable Modem
-How to Cheat at Windows System Administration Using Command Line
 Scripts
-JavaScript: The Definitive Guide, Fifth Edition
-Mac OS X Tiger Server Administration (PDF)
-MAKE: Volume 07
-PC Music: The Easy Guide
-Photoshop Elements 5: The Missing Manual
-Photoshop Workflow Setups
-Ruby Cookbook (PDF Version)
-Ruby on Rails: Up and Running
-Running Mac OS X on Windows (PDF)
-Scripting InDesign with JavaScript (PDF)
-SQL Hacks: Rough Cuts Version
-Ubuntu Linux for Non-Geeks
-Virtualization with Microsoft Virtual Server 2005
-Visual Basic 2005 Cookbook

----------------------------------------------------------------
Upcoming Events
----------------------------------------------------------------
-O'Reilly at the Sonoma County Book Festival, Santa Rosa, CA--
 September 16
-chromatic ("Perl Testing: A Developer's Notebook" and "Perl
 Hacks") at the Seattle Perl Users Seattle, WA--September?19
-Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography") joins
 SFDIG, San Francisco, CA--October 3
-C.J. Date ("The Relational Database Dictionary" and "Database in
 Depth") at the Data Management Association, Beaverton, OR--
 October 4
-Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat") Project: Photoshop Lightroom
 School Tour
-Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book") ASMP/It's Your Business Event Series
-Eddie Tapp ("Photoshop Workflow Setups") Pro Tips Tour
-Derrick Story ("Digital Photography Pocket Guide" and "iPhoto 6:
 The Missing Manual") at NCMUG's Macintosh Computer Expo,
 Santa Rosa, CA--October 7
-Derrick Story ("Digital Photography Pocket Guide" and "iPhoto 6:
 The Missing Manual") at Santa Rosa Junior College,
 Santa Rosa, CA--October 8

----------------------------------------------------------------
Conference News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-ETech 2007 Call for Papers
-Proposals for the 2007 MySQL Conference & Expo

----------------------------------------------------------------
News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-CRAFT on Newsstands October 17
-Work for O'Reilly
-User Group Members receive a special 30% discount on
 O'Reilly Learning Courses
-Unit Testing Your Documentation
-Understanding Newlines
-Digital Media Insider Podcast: Playing with Audio Plugins
-George Jardine Discusses the Adobe Lightroom Adventure
-Image Sharpening With Photoshop CS2
-A Briefing on Synching
-Unify and Synchronize Your iTunes Libraries
-How to Remove Startup Programs
-Building Photo Uploaders with XAML
-Separation of Concerns in Web Service Implementations
-How to Publish Multiple Websites Using a Single Tomcat Web
 Application
-Batch Updates with PL/pgSQL
-Visualizing Database Information with Tableau
-MAKE Japan Now Available
-Weekend Projects: Batometer Instructions
-Barbara Brundage discusses "Photoshop Elements 5: The Missing Manual"
-Life Cycles
-Flex 2: Rich Internet Applications in a Flash
-Advanced Accessibility Techniques

---------------------------------------------------------------
New Releases--Books, PDFs, and Rough Cuts
----------------------------------------------------------------
Get 30% off a single book or 35% off two or more books from O'Reilly,
No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint,
or Syngress books you purchase directly from O'Reilly.
Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938.
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Free ground shipping on orders of $29.95 or more.
For more details, go to:
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Did you know you can request a free book to review for your
group? Ask your group leader for more information.

For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
<http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html>


***Ajax and Web Services (PDF)
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596528531
Ajax and web services are a perfect match for developing web
applications. Ajax has built-in abilities to access and manipulate XML
data, the native format for almost all REST and SOAP web services.
 Using numerous examples, this document explores how to fit the pieces
 together. Examples demonstrate how to use Ajax to access publicly
 available web services from Yahoo! and Google. You'll also learn how
 to use web proxies to access data on remote servers and how to
 transform XML data using XSLT.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ajaxwebserv/>


***ASP.NET 2.0 Black Book
Publisher: Paraglyph Press
ISBN: 1933097175
The book covers the entire spectrum of ASP.Net 2.0, from Webparts to
Master Pages, incorporating newer technologies including Ajax and
 Atlas, developing mobile Web applications using ADO.Net 2.0, and data
 binding to many sources including databases, file-streams, and XML.
 Hundreds of unique programming solutions are provided that developers
 can use right away to save many hours of programming time.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1933097175/>


***Classic LEGO Mindstorms Projects and Software Tools
Publisher: Syngress
ISBN: 159749089X
The perfect book/DVD for the Lego Mindstorms geek eager to extend the
life of their RIS 1.x and 2.x kits, RCX Bricks, motors, and programs by
building new projects. Includes 40 projects, software tools such as
LDraw, MLCad andPOV-Ray; and complete RCX and NQC code files. All
projects are in PDF form on the DVD, ready for printing, copying or
annotating. A perfect resource for clubs and classes as well.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/159749089X/>


***Code Craft
Publisher: No Starch Press
ISBN: 1593271190
"Code Craft" teaches programmers how to move beyond writing correct
 code to writing great code. The book covers code writing concerns,
 including code presentation style, variable naming, error handling,
 and security; and the wider issues of programming in the real world,
 such as good teamwork, development processes, and documentation. "Code
 Craft" presents language-agnostic advice that is relevant to all
 developers, from an author with loads of practical experience.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1593271190/>


***Designing and Building Enterprise DMZs
Publisher: Syngress
ISBN: 1597491004
Building DMZs for Enterprise Networks covers a sorely needed area in
critical business infrastructure: the Demilitarized Zone. DMZs play a
crucial role in any network consisting of a Hosted Internet Web Server,
internal servers which need to be segregated, External to Internal DNS
Server, and an E-mail SMTP Relay Agent. This book covers what an
administrator needs to plan out and integrate a DMZ into a network for
small, medium, and Enterprise networks.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597491004/>


***Enemy at the Water Cooler
Publisher: Syngress
ISBN: 1597491292
Organizations spend billions each year securing assets. Most
countermeasures are designed to address external attacks. What happens
when the attacker is a trusted employee with access to sensitive
 assets? Insider threats are easy to perpetrate, hard to prevent, and
 managing them is politically charged. Spanning over a decade, this
 book shares real life stories of insider threats and countermeasures
 through various geographies and business verticals.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597491292/>


***Essential Computer Security: Everyone's Guide to Email, Internet,
 and Wireless Security
Publisher: Syngress
ISBN: 1597491144
Do you want your computer to be absolutely, positively, 100% secure
against all vulnerabilities and exploits both known now and those yet
 to be discovered? That is simple--leave your computer in the box it
 came in. The only way to be 100% secure is never to turn the computer
 on. Once you turn the computer on, you begin a tight-rope-balancing
 act between functionality, convenience, and security.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597491144/>


***Firewall Policies and VPN Configurations
Publisher: Syngress
ISBN: 1597490881
The security provided by firewalls and VPNs is only as strong as the
protocol rules and policies that you create. "Defense-in-depth" and
"least privilege" are merely holes in your perimeter waiting to be
exploited, unless you can define and maintain protocol rules that allow
only the minimum protocols required to provide your requisite services.
This book provides fundamental information necessary to configure
firewalls and build VPNs and DMZs to survive the dangers of today's
internet. Products covered include Cisco PIX Firewall, ISA Server 2004,
Check Point NGX, Juniper's NetScreen Firewalls, SonicWall, and Nokia.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597490881/>


***Getting Started with .NET 3.0 (PDF)
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 059652921X
Learn how to create more dynamic user experiences and build secure web
services using Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) and Windows
Presentation Foundation (WPF), two of the foundational pillars of .NET
3.0, with this succinct and well-written PDF document.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/dotnet30pdf/>


***Getting Started with Atlas (PDF)
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596529171
In this Short Cut, Microsoft MVP Wei-Meng Lee introduces you to Atlas
 by showing ten ways you can use the technology to improve the user
 experience of your existing ASP.NET 2.0 apps. There's no better way to
 get acquainted with Atlas than by diving into a project, so read on
 and get started.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/atlaspdf/>


***Getting Started with Hibernate 3 (PDF)
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596528183
This PDF updates the introductory material from the award-winning
"Hibernate: A Developer's Notebook" to teach you how to jump right in
 and get productive with the current release of Hibernate. You'll be
 walked through the ins and outs of setting up Hibernate and some
 related tools that make it easier to use--and that may give you new
 ideas about how to store information in your Java programs.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hibernate3pdf/>


***Hacking the Cable Modem
Publisher: No Starch Press
ISBN: 1593271018
Inside "Hacking the Cable Modem," you'll learn the history of cable
modem hacking, how a cable modem works, the importance of firmware, how
to unblock network ports and unlock hidden features, how to hack and
modify your cable modem, what uncapping is and how it makes cable
modems upload and download faster. Written for people at all skill
levels, the book features step-by-step tutorials with easy to follow
diagrams, source code examples, hardware schematics, links to software
(exclusive to this book!), and previously unreleased cable modem hacks.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1593271018/>


***How to Cheat at Windows System Administration Using
Command Line Scripts
Publisher: Syngress
If you want to streamline the administration of your Windows servers
 and workstations by using command line scripts, this is the book for
 you. With every new version of Windows, Microsoft attempts to ease
administrative tasks by adding more and more layers of graphical user
interface (GUI) or configuration wizards (dialog boxes). While these
"wizards" are interactive and make the administrator's job simpler,
 they are nowhere near as quick or efficient as a well-crafted
 command-line script or batch file.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597491055/>


***JavaScript: The Definitive Guide, Fifth Edition
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596101996
The indispensable reference for JavaScript programmers since 1996,
"JavaScript: The Definitive Guide, Fifth Edition" is completely revised
and expanded to cover JavaScript as it is used in today's Web 2.0
applications.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jscript5/>


***Mac OS X Tiger Server Administration (PDF)
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596529546
"Mac OS X Tiger Server Administration" gives Unix, Windows, and Mac
administrators what they need to master every aspect of this server,
from the command line to Apple's graphical tools. Full of much-needed
insight, clear explanations, and troubleshooting tips, the book shows
readers how to utilize Tiger server's capabilities and features in
 their individual environments, while highlighting the differences
 between Mac OS X and other server platforms.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/macosxtigersa/>


***MAKE: Technology On Your Time Volume 07
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596527187
If you like to tweak, disassemble, recreate, and invent cool new uses
for technology, you'll love MAKE, our project-based quarterly for the
inquisitive do-it-yourselfer. "MAKE Volume 07" is the Backyard Biology
issue, with DNA extraction, plant grafting, home mycology lab, snail
cryogenics, and more. Also, learn how to make your own Stirling engine,
install a video camera on a model rocket, make a head-mounted water
cannon, and dozens of other projects to satiate your inner maker.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/makemag06v7/>


***PC Music: The Easy Guide
Publisher: PC Publishing
ISBN: 1870775201
Completely updated with new sections on the MP3 revolution, the PC as a
complete Media Center and the realisation of your PC as a recording
studio, this new edition of "PC Music--the easy guide," will show you
what can be done, what it all means, and what you will need to start
creating and enjoying your own music on your PC.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1870775201/>


***Photoshop Elements 5: The Missing Manual
The most popular photo-editing program on the market, Photoshop
 Elements not only has Photoshop's marvelous powers, but includes
 creative capabilities the mothership lacks. The latest version,
 "Photoshop Elements 5," offers new scrapbook features among many other
improvements. Our Missing Manual carefully explains every feature
(something no other book has done) by putting each one into a clear,
easy-to-understand context--all with a bit of wit and good humor. This
book is for the Windows users of Photoshop Elements.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/photoshope5tmm/>


***Photoshop Workflow Setups
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596101686
Adobe Photoshop has so many different work areas and tools that it can
become confusing or even intimidating for digital photographers to use
in a production environment. This first book in our new series on
digital photography offers a step-by-step approach to Photoshop's vast
collection of menus, palettes, and tools, showing you not only how they
work, but how they should work for your specific needs in a visually
uncluttered workspace.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/photoworkflow/>


***Ruby Cookbook (PDF Version)
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596523696
From data structures and algorithms, to integration with cutting-edge
technologies, the "Ruby Cookbook" has something for every programmer.
 When you need to solve a problem, don't reinvent the wheel: look for
 it in the Cookbook.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rubyckbk/>


***Ruby on Rails: Up and Running
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596101325
This compact guide from O'Reilly teaches you the basics of Ruby on
Rails, the super-productive new way to develop full-featured web
applications. Discover how to install and use both the Ruby scripting
language and the Rails framework. More advanced material shows you just
how fast Ruby on Rails can go.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rubyrails/>


***Running Mac OS X on Windows (PDF)
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596528434
Despite Apple's move to Intel's CPU architecture, if you want to run
 the Mac OS X operating system on your Windows PC, the only logical way
 to do it is to run it in an emulator. In this Short Cut, you will
 learn how to install Mac OS X on your PC using PearPC, an open source
 emulator that emulates the PowerPC architecture. We'll walk you
 through all of the steps needed to successfully get Mac OS X working,
 as well as show you how to configure additional settings to make Mac
 OS X functional. <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/runningmacpc/>


***Scripting InDesign with JavaScript (PDF)
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596528175
InDesign provides a powerful set of tools for producing beautiful
documents. While you can certainly do all your work by hand through
InDesign's graphical interface, there are many times when it's much
easier to write a script. Once you've automated a task, you can run it
over the whole document, ensuring consistency, or just when you need
 it, simplifying and speeding your layout process. All it takes is a
 bit of JavaScript knowledge and a willingness to explore InDesign's
 programming features.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/scriptingindesign/>


***SQL Hacks: Rough Cuts Version
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596527152
Whether you're running Access, MySQL, SQL Server, Oracle, or
 PostgreSQL, this book will help you push the limits of traditional SQL
 to squeeze data effectively from your database. It offers 100
 hacks--unique tips and tools--that bring you the knowledge of experts
 who apply what they know in the real world to help you take full
 advantage of the expressive power of SQL. You'll find practical
 techniques to address complex data manipulation problems.
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***Flex 2: Rich Internet Applications in a Flash
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-------------------------------------------------------

-- 

        http://pdx.pm.org

From krisb at ring.org  Sun Sep 17 13:44:52 2006
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 13:44:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Read only?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171338480.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>


I am trying to add some tests, and this test (on line 1171):

	is(join(' ',map { $_->{val} } @{$softtable->[3]}),"100","set1 first bin");

gives me this error:

	Modification of a read-only value attempted at (eval 23) line
	1171, <DATA> line 1965.

However, when I break things down like this:

	my @columns = @{$softtable->[3]};
	my @bins = map { $_->{val} } @columns;
	my $binstring = join(' ', at bins);
	is($binstring,"100","set1 bins");

the test passes.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

-Kris




From krisb at ring.org  Sun Sep 17 13:48:39 2006
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 13:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Read only?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171338480.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171347380.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>


this works:

	my @columns = @{$softtable->[3]};
	is(join(' ',map { $_->{val} } @columns),"100","set1 first bin");

So, it doesn't like my dereference notation for some reason.

Thanks.

-Kris

On Sun, 17 Sep 2006, Kris Bosland wrote:

>
> I am trying to add some tests, and this test (on line 1171):
>
> 	is(join(' ',map { $_->{val} } @{$softtable->[3]}),"100","set1 first bin");
>
> gives me this error:
>
> 	Modification of a read-only value attempted at (eval 23) line
> 	1171, <DATA> line 1965.
>
> However, when I break things down like this:
>
> 	my @columns = @{$softtable->[3]};
> 	my @bins = map { $_->{val} } @columns;
> 	my $binstring = join(' ', at bins);
> 	is($binstring,"100","set1 bins");
>
> the test passes.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Kris
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
>
> !DSPAM:450db3ea172876278817596!
>
>


From chromatic at wgz.org  Sun Sep 17 14:22:27 2006
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:22:27 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Read only?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171347380.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171347380.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <200609171422.28166.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Sunday 17 September 2006 13:48, Kris Bosland wrote:

> this works:
>
> 	my @columns = @{$softtable->[3]};
> 	is(join(' ',map { $_->{val} } @columns),"100","set1 first bin");
>
> So, it doesn't like my dereference notation for some reason.

Odd; can you post a little more context?  The error message bothers me (in an 
anonymous subroutine?).

-- c

From chromatic at wgz.org  Sun Sep 17 14:22:27 2006
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:22:27 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Read only?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171347380.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171347380.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <200609171422.28166.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Sunday 17 September 2006 13:48, Kris Bosland wrote:

> this works:
>
> 	my @columns = @{$softtable->[3]};
> 	is(join(' ',map { $_->{val} } @columns),"100","set1 first bin");
>
> So, it doesn't like my dereference notation for some reason.

Odd; can you post a little more context?  The error message bothers me (in an 
anonymous subroutine?).

-- c

From krisb at ring.org  Sun Sep 17 14:27:39 2006
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:27:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Read only?
In-Reply-To: <200609171422.28166.chromatic@wgz.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171418000.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>


	Context is super-crazy, so it's hard to post.
This is a test in an application that I am testing with my test module
Test::Inline::No::Really.  I use

Pod::Tests		<- get tests out of pod blocks
Test::Builder		<- execute tests with eval (and capture output)
Test::Harness::Straps	<- parse test results to track how many passed and
			   failed

So these are eval'd blobs of text, package'd into the calling
package and using imported test functions, whos output is trapped in a
filehandle that goes to a scalar.

-Kris

On Sun, 17 Sep 2006, chromatic wrote:

> On Sunday 17 September 2006 13:48, Kris Bosland wrote:
>
> > this works:
> >
> > 	my @columns = @{$softtable->[3]};
> > 	is(join(' ',map { $_->{val} } @columns),"100","set1 first bin");
> >
> > So, it doesn't like my dereference notation for some reason.
>
> Odd; can you post a little more context?  The error message bothers me (in an
> anonymous subroutine?).
>
> -- c
>
>
> !DSPAM:450db9ee175311571813022!
>
>


From krisb at ring.org  Sun Sep 17 14:27:39 2006
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:27:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Read only?
In-Reply-To: <200609171422.28166.chromatic@wgz.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171418000.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>


	Context is super-crazy, so it's hard to post.
This is a test in an application that I am testing with my test module
Test::Inline::No::Really.  I use

Pod::Tests		<- get tests out of pod blocks
Test::Builder		<- execute tests with eval (and capture output)
Test::Harness::Straps	<- parse test results to track how many passed and
			   failed

So these are eval'd blobs of text, package'd into the calling
package and using imported test functions, whos output is trapped in a
filehandle that goes to a scalar.

-Kris

On Sun, 17 Sep 2006, chromatic wrote:

> On Sunday 17 September 2006 13:48, Kris Bosland wrote:
>
> > this works:
> >
> > 	my @columns = @{$softtable->[3]};
> > 	is(join(' ',map { $_->{val} } @columns),"100","set1 first bin");
> >
> > So, it doesn't like my dereference notation for some reason.
>
> Odd; can you post a little more context?  The error message bothers me (in an
> anonymous subroutine?).
>
> -- c
>
>
> !DSPAM:450db9ee175311571813022!
>
>


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sun Sep 17 15:01:36 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 15:01:36 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Read only?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171347380.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171347380.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <200609171501.36266.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Kris Bosland
# on Sunday 17 September 2006 01:48 pm:

>????????my @columns = @{$softtable->[3]};
>????????is(join(' ',map { $_->{val} } @columns),"100","set1 first
> bin");
>
>So, it doesn't like my dereference notation for some reason.

Hmm.  What's a softtable?

  $ perl -Mwarnings -Mstrict -e \
    'my $softtable = [[{}],[{}],[{}],[{val => 2, bar => 1}]];
    print join(" ", map { $_->{val} } @{$softtable->[3]})'
  2

--Eric
-- 
The more you learn about Linux, the more you hate Windows.
--Gary Varnell
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From krisb at ring.org  Sun Sep 17 15:11:30 2006
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 15:11:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Read only?
In-Reply-To: <200609171501.36266.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171506100.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>


	Yes, works on '-e' and on the debug command line, but not in my
wacky eval context.  I just had a thought: deparse!  How do I compile and
then deparse an eval string?

Softtable = table of 'soft' bins, vs 'hard' bins.
Hard bins are physical slots the part handling robot can place a part
after it is tested, soft bins can have more detail ince they don't have a
physical meaning (there are less than 10 hard bins, and there can be as
many as hundreds of soft bins).

Thanks.

-Kris

On Sun, 17 Sep 2006, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> # from Kris Bosland
> # on Sunday 17 September 2006 01:48 pm:
>
> >????????my @columns = @{$softtable->[3]};
> >????????is(join(' ',map { $_->{val} } @columns),"100","set1 first
> > bin");
> >
> >So, it doesn't like my dereference notation for some reason.
>
> Hmm.  What's a softtable?
>
>   $ perl -Mwarnings -Mstrict -e \
>     'my $softtable = [[{}],[{}],[{}],[{val => 2, bar => 1}]];
>     print join(" ", map { $_->{val} } @{$softtable->[3]})'
>   2
>
> --Eric
> --
> The more you learn about Linux, the more you hate Windows.
> --Gary Varnell
> ---------------------------------------------------
>     http://scratchcomputing.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
>
> !DSPAM:450dc32c177862551394455!
>
>


From chromatic at wgz.org  Sun Sep 17 16:36:02 2006
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:36:02 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Read only?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171506100.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171506100.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <200609171636.04257.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Sunday 17 September 2006 15:11, Kris Bosland wrote:

> ????????Yes, works on '-e' and on the debug command line, but not in my
> wacky eval context. ?I just had a thought: deparse! ?How do I compile and
> then deparse an eval string?

Turn it into an anonymous subroutine, then use B::Deparse:

	my $deparse = B::Deparse->new();
	my $source  = $deparse->coderef2text( $sub_ref );

-- c

From krisb at ring.org  Sun Sep 17 16:41:25 2006
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:41:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Read only?
In-Reply-To: <200609171636.04257.chromatic@wgz.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0609171641120.23998-100000@ender.ring.org>


	I'll try it.

-Kris

On Sun, 17 Sep 2006, chromatic wrote:

> On Sunday 17 September 2006 15:11, Kris Bosland wrote:
>
> > ????????Yes, works on '-e' and on the debug command line, but not in my
> > wacky eval context. ?I just had a thought: deparse! ?How do I compile and
> > then deparse an eval string?
>
> Turn it into an anonymous subroutine, then use B::Deparse:
>
> 	my $deparse = B::Deparse->new();
> 	my $source  = $deparse->coderef2text( $sub_ref );
>
> -- c
>
>
> !DSPAM:450dd943184408485912807!
>
>


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Sep 18 18:49:35 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (The Dread Parrot)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:49:35 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: [pm_groups] 9th German Perl Workshop - Call for Papers
Message-ID: <200609181849.35826.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

ich bin ein perliner?

--Eric
----------  Forwarded Message:  ----------

Subject: [pm_groups] 9th German Perl Workshop - Call for Papers
Date: Monday 18 September 2006 07:25 am
From: Thomas Klausner <domm at cpan.org>
To: pm_groups at pm.org

Hi!

Here's the CfP for the 9th German Perl Workshop in Munich.

Please forward it to your local groups...

----- Forwarded message from ReneeB <mailinglisten at renee-baecker.de>
 -----

From: ReneeB <mailinglisten at renee-baecker.de>
Subject: 9. Deutscher Perl-Workshop / Call for Papers
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:15:08 +0200
To: perl-mongers at 42.org


Call for Papers / 9. Deutscher Perl-Workshop / 21.02.- 23.02.2007
Ort:      Fachhochschule M?nchen
Location: Fachhochschule M?nchen

_English Abstract_ :

The 9th German Perl-Workshop will take place from Wednesday, 21 Feb.
2007 to Friday, 23 Feb.2007 and you are invited to submit proposals for
talks or tutorials. We will happily accept proposals for interesting
talks related to Perl. Please use http://www.perl-workshop.de/ to enter
your proposal.

Wir freuen uns auf deinen Beitrag!
wsorga at perl-workshop.de <mailto:wsorga at perl-workshop.de>


----- End forwarded message -----

--
#!/usr/bin/perl                               http://domm.zsi.at
for(ref bless{},just'another'perl'hacker){s-:+-$"-g&&print$_.$/}
-------------------------------------------------------

-- 

        http://pdx.pm.org

From kellert at ohsu.edu  Tue Sep 19 11:07:50 2006
From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas Keller)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:07:50 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] $#ARGV
Message-ID: <A96D63DA-933C-4C0E-A511-689745F48627@ohsu.edu>

Greetings,
I'm running the debugger on a script that fails to launch (it's  
called from another program) that I just got from someone and it  
terminates line 24:

23:	if ( $#ARGV < 0 ) {
24:		die $usage;
25:	}

I'm assuming the debugger terminates because $#ARGV is less than  
zero, but I don't understand why.
How can $#ARGV be less than 0? Have I forgotten something basic again?
Thanks,
		
Tom K
kellert at ohsu.edu
4-2442


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From karlstump at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 19 11:14:48 2006
From: karlstump at yahoo.com (Karl Stump)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:14:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] $#ARGV
In-Reply-To: <A96D63DA-933C-4C0E-A511-689745F48627@ohsu.edu>
Message-ID: <20060919181448.93020.qmail@web31515.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

$# returns the subscript of the last element of the
array, or one less than the length. So, -1 is very
possible when no command line parameters are
specified. 


--- Thomas Keller <kellert at ohsu.edu> wrote:

> Greetings,
> I'm running the debugger on a script that fails to
> launch (it's  
> called from another program) that I just got from
> someone and it  
> terminates line 24:
> 
> 23:	if ( $#ARGV < 0 ) {
> 24:		die $usage;
> 25:	}
> 
> I'm assuming the debugger terminates because $#ARGV
> is less than  
> zero, but I don't understand why.
> How can $#ARGV be less than 0? Have I forgotten
> something basic again?
> Thanks,
> 		
> Tom K
> kellert at ohsu.edu
> 4-2442
> 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From mikeraz at patch.com  Tue Sep 19 11:15:26 2006
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:15:26 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] $#ARGV
In-Reply-To: <A96D63DA-933C-4C0E-A511-689745F48627@ohsu.edu>
References: <A96D63DA-933C-4C0E-A511-689745F48627@ohsu.edu>
Message-ID: <20060919181526.GB11598@patch.com>

Thomas Keller wrote:
> How can $#ARGV be less than 0? Have I forgotten something basic again?
> Thanks,

It's -1 if there are no arguments.




-- 
      Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
    Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
http://www.patch.com/words/ or http://fut.patch.com/ 
  The fortune cookie says:
Time will end all my troubles, but I don't always approve of Time's methods.


From david at kineticode.com  Tue Sep 19 11:26:28 2006
From: david at kineticode.com (David E. Wheeler)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:26:28 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] $#ARGV
In-Reply-To: <A96D63DA-933C-4C0E-A511-689745F48627@ohsu.edu>
References: <A96D63DA-933C-4C0E-A511-689745F48627@ohsu.edu>
Message-ID: <65C47016-0CFB-4178-A70A-FC519DCD759C@kineticode.com>

On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:07, Thomas Keller wrote:

> 23:	if ( $#ARGV < 0 ) {
> 24:		die $usage;
> 25:	}

Use this, instead:

23:	unless( @ARGV ) {
24:		die $usage;
25:	}

It's easier to read, too.

Best,

David

From kellert at ohsu.edu  Tue Sep 19 11:42:13 2006
From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas Keller)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:42:13 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] $#ARGV
In-Reply-To: <65C47016-0CFB-4178-A70A-FC519DCD759C@kineticode.com>
References: <A96D63DA-933C-4C0E-A511-689745F48627@ohsu.edu>
	<65C47016-0CFB-4178-A70A-FC519DCD759C@kineticode.com>
Message-ID: <21ADE34D-4CD3-4316-9D13-536C352A2C26@ohsu.edu>

Thanks all, I'm out of practice.

So the error must be that the program that is calling this script is  
not getting the arguments to it.
The error message I get from the calling program (written in C) is
"Something wrong running command
/usr/local/genome/bin/findSequenceMatchesForConsed.perl
/usr/local/genome/consed_mac/assembly_view/edit_dir/ 
assembly_view.fasta.screen.ace.1 -minmatch 30
-minscore 60  Unknown error: 0 (errno = 22)"

So this program thinks it is sending a filename and two parameters,  
but the perl script isn't getting them.

The script is in a dir that had a mode of 111 (only execute). That  
looks like the problem. I chmoded to allow reading and that fixed it.

Thanks,

Tom K
kellert at ohsu.edu
4-2442


On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:26 AM, David E. Wheeler wrote:

> On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:07, Thomas Keller wrote:
>
>> 23:	if ( $#ARGV < 0 ) {
>> 24:		die $usage;
>> 25:	}
>
> Use this, instead:
>
> 23:	unless( @ARGV ) {
> 24:		die $usage;
> 25:	}
>
> It's easier to read, too.
>
> Best,
>
> David
>

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From wcooley at nakedape.cc  Thu Sep 21 15:12:34 2006
From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:12:34 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Is "Perl & LWP" out of date?
Message-ID: <1158876754.6552.25.camel@willow.odshp.com>


I'm doing some work that requires LWP and I'm thinking about buying
"Perl & LWP"; how out of date is it, given that it was published in
2002?

[To our ORA editors on-list: It would be nice if versions for things
like this were mentioned on the web site.]

Wil
-- 
Wil Cooley <wcooley at nakedape.cc>
http://nakedape.cc
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From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Thu Sep 21 15:29:18 2006
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 21 Sep 2006 15:29:18 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Is "Perl & LWP" out of date?
In-Reply-To: <1158876754.6552.25.camel@willow.odshp.com>
References: <1158876754.6552.25.camel@willow.odshp.com>
Message-ID: <86lkoconup.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Wil" == Wil Cooley <wcooley at nakedape.cc> writes:

Wil> I'm doing some work that requires LWP and I'm thinking about buying
Wil> "Perl & LWP"; how out of date is it, given that it was published in
Wil> 2002?

The things in there still work, but many things are much easier,
thanks to the stuff in "perldoc lwpcook".

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From andy at petdance.com  Thu Sep 21 16:48:20 2006
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:48:20 -0500
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Is "Perl & LWP" out of date?
In-Reply-To: <86lkoconup.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <1158876754.6552.25.camel@willow.odshp.com>
	<86lkoconup.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <E3487E63-151A-4201-AAD9-9A34787CE2CD@petdance.com>


On Sep 21, 2006, at 5:29 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

> Wil> I'm doing some work that requires LWP and I'm thinking about  
> buying
> Wil> "Perl & LWP"; how out of date is it, given that it was  
> published in
> Wil> 2002?
>
> The things in there still work, but many things are much easier,
> thanks to the stuff in "perldoc lwpcook".

and WWW::Mechanize

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From randall at sonofhans.net  Thu Sep 21 16:52:54 2006
From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:52:54 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Is "Perl & LWP" out of date?
In-Reply-To: <E3487E63-151A-4201-AAD9-9A34787CE2CD@petdance.com>
References: <1158876754.6552.25.camel@willow.odshp.com>
	<86lkoconup.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<E3487E63-151A-4201-AAD9-9A34787CE2CD@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <C7C7E290-EE34-498C-A6B4-78D1D24099F0@sonofhans.net>

On Sep 21, 2006, at 4:48 PM, Andy Lester wrote:

> and WWW::Mechanize

yes (speaking as someone using Test::WWW::Mechanize for acceptance  
testing) mech is excellent.

r



From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Sep 21 18:07:22 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:07:22 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] meetings poll
Message-ID: <200609211807.22759.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Hi Everybody,

I put a new poll on the website about the content/difficulty level of 
meetings.  I would like to get an idea of what we should be shooting 
for this month.

  http://pdx.pm.org/ppp.cgi?poll=Meetings

If you're curious about the results for the jobs poll, they're still 
here:  http://pdx.pm.org/ppp.cgi?poll=job&op=Results

If you haven't been coming to meetings because you think they lack 
interesting content, please send me e-mail off-list (or even use the 
"anonymous coward" form on scratchcomputing.com/contact.html, call my 
phone and leave a message with a voice mogrifier, whatever.)

If you haven't been coming because of Wednesday, etc.  I would be 
interested in subscribing to your newsletter, but right now I'm mostly 
concerned about content.

--Eric
-- 
The opinions expressed in this e-mail were randomly generated by
the computer and do not necessarily reflect the views of its owner.
--Management
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Sep 21 18:23:16 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:23:16 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] ... and "what's next?"
Message-ID: <200609211823.16308.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Yeah, me again,

So, who wants to give a presentation this month?  Will it be you, you, 
or ... you?

If you're not sure whether you can pull off a presentation, try me.  
I'll help you work on the material, whatever.

If you thought "I could give a presentation on ___, but nah, that 
wouldn't be cool enough.", try me.

If you really don't want to give a presentation, but would like to see a 
presentation about X or Y, put it on the wiki:

  http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?MeetingWishlist

If you have something to say but it might only take a 20 minutes, let me 
know.  There's probably someone with a related or more/less advanced 
tidbit that would cover the other half.

I'm flexible, but right now I'm grabbing at bendy straws.  Help me out 
here.

If nobody has anything by the end of this week, I'll be forced to cook 
up something silly involving circus clowns (and now that I mentioned 
it, I'll get dared to actually do it, right?)  Okay, settle down now.  
Don't make me think up more idle threats.

--Eric
-- 
Moving pianos is dangerous.
Moving pianos are dangerous.
Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo.
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From bryce at osdl.org  Thu Sep 21 22:41:25 2006
From: bryce at osdl.org (Bryce Harrington)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:41:25 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] ... and "what's next?"
In-Reply-To: <200609211823.16308.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200609211823.16308.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <20060922054125.GI17157@osdl.org>

On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 06:23:16PM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> Yeah, me again,
> 
> So, who wants to give a presentation this month?  Will it be you, you, 
> or ... you?
> 
> If you're not sure whether you can pull off a presentation, try me.  
> I'll help you work on the material, whatever.
> 
> If you thought "I could give a presentation on ___, but nah, that 
> wouldn't be cool enough.", try me.

Well, I have something that definitely fits in this particular blank.
At OSDL we've been doing some coding for automated testing.  Several
pieces are in perl and have been uploaded to CPAN, including one set of
modules for editing/updating different kinds of bootloader config files,
called Linux::Bootloader, another module WWW::PkgFind for downloading
software packages from web or ftp sites, or from cvs/git/svn, and
another set of modules for parsing test output from different kinds of
test programs, called Test::Parser.  We've also recently added a module, 
Test::Presenter, that employs an XML database to recombobulate parsed
test data into forms that Chart::Graph::Gnuplot and similar modules can
use for making pretty SVG graphs.

Crucible is a test harness that utilizes all of these different pieces,
along with a mess of bash scripts, to provide a generalized automated
testing system.  We use Crucible for testing NFSv4, Linux CPU and Memory
hotplug, Inkscape, Cairo, and GeGL.  It coordinates tests across a
collection of different machines of different architectures; it handles
automated power cycling to test-boot new kernels; it can reimage,
capture console logs, etc.; it can coordinate multi-client/server
configurations; it slices; it dices; it'll even CUT THROUGH A TIN CAN!1!!

Anyway, I know in general testing is a pretty ho-hum topic, but Crucible
has been proving itself quite handy, and I'd like to show it off a bit.
Plus, I bet the associated modules could potentially be useful for
things beyond automated testing.  (And it'd be nice presenting it to an
audience that isn't rabidly anti-Perl!)  If nothing else, I could give
folks a really good nap...

Or, I could do a demo of Inkscape.  It has nothing to do with Perl but
it's oh so pretty to demo...

Bryce

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Sep 25 11:17:56 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:17:56 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: [pm_groups] Quality of CPAN modules, CPAN::Reporter
Message-ID: <200609251117.57184.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Anyone using CPAN::Reporter?

----------  Forwarded Message:  ----------

Subject: [pm_groups] Quality of CPAN modules, CPAN::Reporter
Date: Monday 25 September 2006 04:41 am
From: "Gabor Szabo" <szabgab at gmail.com>
To: "PM Groups" <pm_groups at pm.org>

Hi,
I am not sure if all the pm lists are suitable for advancing specific
Perl and CPAN realted issues. On Israel.pm this seems to be acceptable.
(I accept it anyway :-) I have justs sent the following to our mailing
 list. If you feel it suitable, plase forward to your mailing list.
  Gabor
  ----------------------------------------- cut here
---------------------------------------

Hi,

In my Perl courses people always ask me about the quality of the
CPAN modules. One of the key things I am pointing at is CPAN Testers
http://testers.cpan.org/

It's a great resource for both module authors and module users.

The biggest problem with it was so far that relatively few people sent
 in reports, partially because CPANPLUS was required for that.

Recently I started to use CPAN::Reporter
http://search.cpan.org/dist/CPAN-Reporter/
that works with the regular CPAN.pm module. Once installed it
will send success and failure report on each one of the modules you
 install.

That is with an initial minor work - installing CPAN::Reporter - you
 will be sending test reports and help the effort of making CPAN a
 better place.


You can watch the queue of the incoming test reports here:
http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers/
and check that your test reports are showing up a few minutes
after you sent them.

If anyone needs help setting it up, just post a note here or here
http://www.cpanforum.com/dist/CPAN-Reporter

Gabor
--
Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org

pm_groups mailing list
pm_groups at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups

-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
If the above message is encrypted and you have lost your pgp key, please
send a self-addressed, stamped lead box to the address below.
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From david at kineticode.com  Mon Sep 25 11:41:43 2006
From: david at kineticode.com (David E. Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:41:43 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: [pm_groups] Quality of CPAN modules,
	CPAN::Reporter
In-Reply-To: <200609251117.57184.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200609251117.57184.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <11EC96A3-EE4A-478A-9DD2-029842496648@kineticode.com>

On Sep 25, 2006, at 11:17, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> Anyone using CPAN::Reporter?

I use CPANPLUS with its integrated support for Test::Reporter. Same  
idea.

Best,

David

From kellert at ohsu.edu  Mon Sep 25 12:44:16 2006
From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas J Keller)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:44:16 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPANPLUS
In-Reply-To: <11EC96A3-EE4A-478A-9DD2-029842496648@kineticode.com>
References: <200609251117.57184.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<11EC96A3-EE4A-478A-9DD2-029842496648@kineticode.com>
Message-ID: <D858DD7A-6E6A-4FF4-99A2-DC3B4126D28F@ohsu.edu>

Is there a good ref for migrating from CPAN to CPANPLUS?
thanks,

Tom K
On Sep 25, 2006, at 11:41 AM, David E. Wheeler wrote:

> On Sep 25, 2006, at 11:17, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
>
>> Anyone using CPAN::Reporter?
>
> I use CPANPLUS with its integrated support for Test::Reporter. Same
> idea.
>
> Best,
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>



From marvin at rectangular.com  Mon Sep 25 12:50:24 2006
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:50:24 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPANPLUS
In-Reply-To: <D858DD7A-6E6A-4FF4-99A2-DC3B4126D28F@ohsu.edu>
References: <200609251117.57184.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<11EC96A3-EE4A-478A-9DD2-029842496648@kineticode.com>
	<D858DD7A-6E6A-4FF4-99A2-DC3B4126D28F@ohsu.edu>
Message-ID: <7981F5E5-CB43-46D0-8EBD-C4CE279DFDA2@rectangular.com>


On Sep 25, 2006, at 12:44 PM, Thomas J Keller wrote:

> Is there a good ref for migrating from CPAN to CPANPLUS?

If you have no reason to, don't.  Ironically, CPANPLUS is a pain to  
install via CPAN, as it doesn't communicate it dependencies  
properly.  Blows my mind.

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/



From randall at sonofhans.net  Mon Sep 25 13:04:13 2006
From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:04:13 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPANPLUS
In-Reply-To: <7981F5E5-CB43-46D0-8EBD-C4CE279DFDA2@rectangular.com>
References: <200609251117.57184.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<11EC96A3-EE4A-478A-9DD2-029842496648@kineticode.com>
	<D858DD7A-6E6A-4FF4-99A2-DC3B4126D28F@ohsu.edu>
	<7981F5E5-CB43-46D0-8EBD-C4CE279DFDA2@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <3B4D9E82-A803-4520-B669-889375B548B6@sonofhans.net>

On Sep 25, 2006, at 12:50 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:

> If you have no reason to, don't.

i like CPANPLUS better, and haven't had trouble installing it via  
CPAN in various environments (debian, ubuntu, OS X).  YMMV.  perhaps  
try Bundle::CPANPLUS?

there's a lot to like about it, though:  dramatically better CLI and  
`sudo` detection and use being my favorites.  i don't do much server  
administration, so the [reportedly] easier automation doesn't affect me.

i'm not sure what you mean by "migrating," thomas.  migrating your  
skills, or 500 shell scripts which depend on CPAN?  either way,  
here's a brief article which may help:

http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=160701

r

From marvin at rectangular.com  Mon Sep 25 13:20:04 2006
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:20:04 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPANPLUS
In-Reply-To: <3B4D9E82-A803-4520-B669-889375B548B6@sonofhans.net>
References: <200609251117.57184.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<11EC96A3-EE4A-478A-9DD2-029842496648@kineticode.com>
	<D858DD7A-6E6A-4FF4-99A2-DC3B4126D28F@ohsu.edu>
	<7981F5E5-CB43-46D0-8EBD-C4CE279DFDA2@rectangular.com>
	<3B4D9E82-A803-4520-B669-889375B548B6@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <7E44CCC4-C1C4-4DEF-92B8-DCE325A155BF@rectangular.com>


On Sep 25, 2006, at 1:04 PM, Randall Hansen wrote:

> On Sep 25, 2006, at 12:50 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
>
>> If you have no reason to, don't.
>
> i like CPANPLUS better, and haven't had trouble installing it via
> CPAN in various environments (debian, ubuntu, OS X).  YMMV.  perhaps
> try Bundle::CPANPLUS?

I had problems about a month ago.  Seems like they've been addressed,  
looking at the CPANPLUS changelog:

   Changes for 0.074       Fri Sep  8 13:12:37 CEST 2006
   =====================================================
    * remove the requires: section in META.yml; CPAN.pm
      thinks it's authoritive for requirement declarations
      and therefor gets our prereqs wrong.


Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/



From david at kineticode.com  Mon Sep 25 13:41:05 2006
From: david at kineticode.com (David E. Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:41:05 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPANPLUS
In-Reply-To: <3B4D9E82-A803-4520-B669-889375B548B6@sonofhans.net>
References: <200609251117.57184.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<11EC96A3-EE4A-478A-9DD2-029842496648@kineticode.com>
	<D858DD7A-6E6A-4FF4-99A2-DC3B4126D28F@ohsu.edu>
	<7981F5E5-CB43-46D0-8EBD-C4CE279DFDA2@rectangular.com>
	<3B4D9E82-A803-4520-B669-889375B548B6@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <6CA650EF-E875-423D-9FE6-30DF14BC628C@kineticode.com>

On Sep 25, 2006, at 13:04, Randall Hansen wrote:

> there's a lot to like about it, though:  dramatically better CLI and
> `sudo` detection and use being my favorites.

Newer versions of CPAN.pm also have the `sudo` detection, BTW.

Best,

David

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Sep 28 10:56:26 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:56:26 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] irc
Message-ID: <200609281056.26615.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

We've started a #pdx.pm channel on irc.perl.org if anyone would like to 
join.

--Eric
-- 
"But as to modern architecture, let us drop it and let us take
modernistic out and shoot it at sunrise."
--F.L. Wright
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
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From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Sep 28 14:28:44 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Seven till Seven)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:28:44 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Meeting reminder:  2 weeks from yesterday
Message-ID: <200609281428.44814.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

There will be a meeting on Wednesday, October 11th at 6:53pm.  I don't 
know what it's about yet.  Do you?

Anybody using WxPerl?  Do you want to?

Or, we just meet at the bar and hack until closing.

--Eric
-- 

        http://pdx.pm.org