From xrdawson at gmail.com  Wed Mar  1 09:33:54 2006
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:33:54 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] March Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20060224234441.GF27703@joshheumann.com>
References: <20060223070553.GA13023@joshheumann.com>
	<200602231830.04810.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<200602241531.46370.chromatic@wgz.org>
	<20060224234441.GF27703@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30603010933t636993fbp455098855cf5a0c7@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a meeting tonight?  At 6:30?  I see the February item posted,
but nothing yet for March.

Chris

On 2/24/06, Josh Heumann <perl-pm at joshheumann.com> wrote:
> <quote who='chromatic' when='Fri, Feb 24, 2006 at 03:31:46PM -0800'>
> > I have poked at them too and would be happy to heckle you.
>
> I would say this comes as close as we ever do to an groundswell of
> support so Eric, you're on.
>
> J
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Wed Mar  1 09:38:19 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:38:19 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] March Meeting
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30603010933t636993fbp455098855cf5a0c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060223070553.GA13023@joshheumann.com>
	<20060224234441.GF27703@joshheumann.com>
	<659b9ea30603010933t636993fbp455098855cf5a0c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200603010938.19969.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Chris Dawson
# on Wednesday 01 March 2006 09:33 am:

>Is there a meeting tonight? ?At 6:30? ?I see the February item posted,
>but nothing yet for March.

No.  Next week.  At least you won't be late this time :-)

--Eric
-- 
So malloc calls a timeout and starts rummaging around the free chain,
sorting things out, and merging adjacent small free blocks into larger
blocks. This takes 3 1/2 days.
--Joel Spolsky
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From tex at off.org  Wed Mar  1 09:42:11 2006
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:42:11 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] PowerPC and little-endian
In-Reply-To: <1d9a3f400602282311h611d7bc0h5f552536a7a511b5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200602281837.46645.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<1d9a3f400602282311h611d7bc0h5f552536a7a511b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060301174211.GH3549@gblx.net>

On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 11:11:40PM -0800, jerry gay wrote:
> On 2/28/06, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Since I'm in the minority of non-mac owners around here, maybe you all
> > can fill me in on this whole dual-mode software-switched rumor about
> > the powerpc being able to run in either big or little endian mode.  I
> > need to unpack some floats and doubles in a cross-platform way and yeah
> > I could do that in pure perl with some of the portable pack/unpack
> > commands and some byte twiddling, but that's going to be slow and so
> > I'll then end up maintaining two pieces of code, so I was thinking I
> > could compile perl to run in little-endian mode.
> >
> from `perldoc -f pack`:
> 
>     pack TEMPLATE,LIST
>     [snip]
>                 n   An unsigned short in "network" (big-endian) order.
>                 N   An unsigned long in "network" (big-endian) order.
>                 v   An unsigned short in "VAX" (little-endian) order.
>                 V   An unsigned long in "VAX" (little-endian) order.
>                       (These 'shorts' and 'longs' are _exactly_ 16 bits and
>                        _exactly_ 32 bits, respectively.)
> 
> maybe that will suffice? it will pack/unpack in the respective byte
> order on any platform, no byte twiddling needed.

	There's a big note about how they decided not to tackle floats
and doubles:

        *              Real numbers (floats and doubles) are in the native
                       machine format only; due to the multiplicity of float?
                       ing formats around, and the lack of a standard "net?
                       work" representation, no facility for interchange has
                       been made.  This means that packed floating point data
                       written on one machine may not be readable on another ?
                       even if both use IEEE floating point arithmetic (as the
                       endian?ness of the memory representation is not part of
                       the IEEE spec).  See also perlport.


	Personally I think that's a cop out. The java people figured it
out (java.lang.float.floatToIntBits()).
	On the other hand, what is it I hear people say when someone
complains about a lacking feature? Oh yeah.. "send code". Well, maybe I
will.

http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/courses/cs341/IEEE-754references.html

	Austin





From marvin at rectangular.com  Wed Mar  1 10:06:11 2006
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:06:11 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] PowerPC and little-endian
In-Reply-To: <200602281837.46645.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200602281837.46645.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <D8235C61-B060-42A7-B1E4-930D470E38F3@rectangular.com>


On Feb 28, 2006, at 6:37 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> I need to unpack some floats and doubles in a cross-platform way

I gather that since you're considering recompiling Perl, this doesn't  
have to work on esoteric platforms.  So long as all the boxes that  
you need to run this on use IEEE 754 for floats and doubles, it  
wouldn't be that hard to write your own serialization routines using  
Inline C.

Here's a demo script that illustrates the principle with floats:

     #!/usr/bin/perl
     use strict;
     use warnings;

     use Config;
     use Inline C => <<'END_C';

     SV*
     serialize_float(float f) {
         SV            *serialized_sv;
         unsigned char *buf;
         I32            bits;

         /* allocate a scalar to hold the serialized output */
         serialized_sv = newSV(5);
         SvPOK_on(serialized_sv);
         SvCUR_set(serialized_sv, 4);
         buf = (unsigned char*)SvPVX(serialized_sv);

         /* copy the bits from the float into a 32-bit integer vessel */
         bits = *(I32*)&f;

         /* encode "bits" in big-endian byte-order */
         *buf++ = (bits & 0xff000000) >> 24;
         *buf++ = (bits & 0x00ff0000) >> 16;
         *buf++ = (bits & 0x0000ff00) >> 8;
         *buf++ = (bits & 0x000000ff);

         /* null terminate the scalar's string */
         *buf = '\0';

         return serialized_sv;
     }

     END_C

     print "Byte order: $Config{byteorder}\n";
     for ( 0, 1, 1.3, 2, 10, 9999, -1, -9999 ) {
         my $float_string = serialize_float($_);
         print unpack( 'B*', $float_string ) . "\n";
     }

Output from a G4 laptop running OS X 10.4.5 and from a Pentium 4  
running FreeBSD 5.3 is appended below.

So long as you write up some tests to make sure the serialization  
schemes produce the output you expect, you should be safe.

Here's links for a few web pages that address the issue of cross- 
platform-compatible serialization of floating point formats:

http://www.bookofhook.com/poshlib/Overview.html
http://www.codeproject.com/tools/libnumber.asp
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0754.html
http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/IEEE-754/IEEE-754references.html

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/

#--------------------------------------------
# G4:

Byte order: 4321
00000000000000000000000000000000
00111111100000000000000000000000
00111111101001100110011001100110
01000000000000000000000000000000
01000001001000000000000000000000
01000110000111000011110000000000
10111111100000000000000000000000
11000110000111000011110000000000


#--------------------------------------------
# Pentium 4:

Byte order: 12345678
00000000000000000000000000000000
00111111100000000000000000000000
00111111101001100110011001100110
01000000000000000000000000000000
01000001001000000000000000000000
01000110000111000011110000000000
10111111100000000000000000000000
11000110000111000011110000000000





From marvin at rectangular.com  Wed Mar  1 10:13:03 2006
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:13:03 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] March Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200602231830.04810.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <20060223070553.GA13023@joshheumann.com>
	<200602231830.04810.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <A4A784D7-3BED-4F1F-B50B-9E0FB3FC3F10@rectangular.com>


On Feb 23, 2006, at 6:30 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> I've been poking at the B modules lately,
> and would be happy to get heckled if anyone is interested in a tour of
> the compiler backends.

Maybe you can explain to me why regular expressions are not available  
from Perl's C API.

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/


From david at kineticode.com  Wed Mar  1 10:26:33 2006
From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:26:33 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] March Meeting
In-Reply-To: <A4A784D7-3BED-4F1F-B50B-9E0FB3FC3F10@rectangular.com>
References: <20060223070553.GA13023@joshheumann.com>
	<200602231830.04810.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<A4A784D7-3BED-4F1F-B50B-9E0FB3FC3F10@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <A9668891-5368-4391-9CD6-C40D484C8EB6@kineticode.com>


On Mar 1, 2006, at 10:13, Marvin Humphrey wrote:

> Maybe you can explain to me why regular expressions are not available
> from Perl's C API.

There must be a way to get at them from C. I'd love to get regex  
support directly into DBD::SQLite. See:

   http://www.justatheory.com/computers/databases/sqlite/ 
add_regexen.html

?especially the last paragraph.

Best,

David

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Wed Mar  1 10:42:06 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:42:06 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] March Meeting
In-Reply-To: <A4A784D7-3BED-4F1F-B50B-9E0FB3FC3F10@rectangular.com>
References: <20060223070553.GA13023@joshheumann.com>
	<200602231830.04810.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<A4A784D7-3BED-4F1F-B50B-9E0FB3FC3F10@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <200603011042.07043.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Marvin Humphrey
# on Wednesday 01 March 2006 10:13 am:

>Maybe you can explain to me why regular expressions are not available
> ? from Perl's C API.

Hmm.  That's a little out of the scope that I had planned, but I suppose 
I could throw in a tour of perlguts et al as an overview of what's 
going on under the hood.

If someone more versed in the deep voodoo wants to throw me a bone on 
how one might hook-in the regex engine via C, maybe I can work that in 
as well.

This is either going to be mind-blowing or mind-blowingly boring :-)  
I'll try to get a synopsis out to the list soon.

--Eric
-- 
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a
desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day.
--E.B. White
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From marvin at rectangular.com  Wed Mar  1 11:11:42 2006
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:11:42 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Regular expressions from XS (was March Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <A9668891-5368-4391-9CD6-C40D484C8EB6@kineticode.com>
References: <20060223070553.GA13023@joshheumann.com>
	<200602231830.04810.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<A4A784D7-3BED-4F1F-B50B-9E0FB3FC3F10@rectangular.com>
	<A9668891-5368-4391-9CD6-C40D484C8EB6@kineticode.com>
Message-ID: <B3938ABF-E7A2-42B0-9A71-D481AC7AB577@rectangular.com>


On Mar 1, 2006, at 10:26 AM, David Wheeler wrote:

> There must be a way to get at them from C.

There has to, but whatever it is, it's not documented.  I tried to  
google up some clarity on this issue, but all I came up with was one  
offhand reference to "faking an op" in a September 2004 Nick Ing- 
Simmons post to p5p. <http://www.mail-archive.com/perl5- 
porters at perl.org/msg81358.html>

I figure it's not documented because the API's unstable, unwieldy,  
ugly, or whatever, and therefore shouldn't be made public.   
Spelunking the perl source might tell me why, but I'm not sure where  
to start.

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/


From david at kineticode.com  Wed Mar  1 11:17:58 2006
From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:17:58 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Regular expressions from XS (was March Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <B3938ABF-E7A2-42B0-9A71-D481AC7AB577@rectangular.com>
References: <20060223070553.GA13023@joshheumann.com>
	<200602231830.04810.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<A4A784D7-3BED-4F1F-B50B-9E0FB3FC3F10@rectangular.com>
	<A9668891-5368-4391-9CD6-C40D484C8EB6@kineticode.com>
	<B3938ABF-E7A2-42B0-9A71-D481AC7AB577@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <AB16F8B2-0CA6-4C6F-8080-97A5483B939D@kineticode.com>

On Mar 1, 2006, at 11:11, Marvin Humphrey wrote:

> I figure it's not documented because the API's unstable, unwieldy,  
> ugly, or whatever, and therefore shouldn't be made public.   
> Spelunking the perl source might tell me why, but I'm not sure  
> where to start.

Ask on p5p?

D

From marvin at rectangular.com  Wed Mar  1 11:21:55 2006
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:21:55 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] March Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200603011042.07043.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <20060223070553.GA13023@joshheumann.com>
	<200602231830.04810.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<A4A784D7-3BED-4F1F-B50B-9E0FB3FC3F10@rectangular.com>
	<200603011042.07043.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <536D201D-D82E-4469-BDDA-0FE1A4E04512@rectangular.com>


On Mar 1, 2006, at 10:42 AM, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> Hmm.  That's a little out of the scope that I had planned, but I  
> suppose
> I could throw in a tour of perlguts et al as an overview of what's
> going on under the hood.
>
> If someone more versed in the deep voodoo wants to throw me a bone on
> how one might hook-in the regex engine via C, maybe I can work that in
> as well.
>
> This is either going to be mind-blowing or mind-blowingly boring :-)
> I'll try to get a synopsis out to the list soon.

I'd suggest a bit about "What's in a scalar?", that covers the IV/NV/ 
PV types and related macros, but leaves off well before that "magic"  
stuff.  The OOK hack, which makes substr() fast, is pretty nifty, and  
not so hard to understand.  I know when I was picking up the basics  
of XS, I would have liked to have seen a presentation on that.

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/


From chromatic at wgz.org  Wed Mar  1 11:39:55 2006
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:39:55 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Regular expressions from XS (was March Meeting)
In-Reply-To: <B3938ABF-E7A2-42B0-9A71-D481AC7AB577@rectangular.com>
References: <20060223070553.GA13023@joshheumann.com>
	<A9668891-5368-4391-9CD6-C40D484C8EB6@kineticode.com>
	<B3938ABF-E7A2-42B0-9A71-D481AC7AB577@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <200603011139.56100.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Wednesday 01 March 2006 11:11, Marvin Humphrey wrote:

> I figure it's not documented because the API's unstable, unwieldy,
> ugly, or whatever, and therefore shouldn't be made public.
> Spelunking the perl source might tell me why, but I'm not sure where
> to start.

Always, always, ALWAYS start by sacrificing a small animal or equivalent.  I 
prefer a tofogoat.

-- c

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Wed Mar  1 15:28:23 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:28:23 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] March Meeting
Message-ID: <200603011528.23516.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Topic:  The Guts of Perl (and why you should care)
Presenter:  Eric Wilhelm (that's me)
When:  Wed, March 8th, 6:30

Briefly covering:

(roughly) What the perl interpreter does when you throw a program at it.
How perlguts and compiled extensions work.
How to peek into perl internals with Perl code.
How this knowledge is useful.


Agenda:

(requisite viewing of fluff / late arrivals)
Overview of perl's parse, compile, run process.
Possibly some mildly off-topic bits about XS, perlapi, etc.
Tour of the B:: modules.
(heckling)
Comparisons between B and PPI approaches.
(likely more heckling)
Example code, case studies, and esoteric observations.
(beer at the Lucky Lab)

Applications:

Mechanically analyzing readability and refactorability of Perl code.
Design patterns and optimization insights.
Better understanding of what is under the hood.
An opportunity to heckle me (heckling-based learning optional.)


--Eric
-- 
Peer's Law: The solution to the problem changes the problem.
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From raanders at acm.org  Thu Mar  2 13:54:53 2006
From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:54:53 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] IO::Socket::INET wakeup call
Message-ID: <440769AD.3020203@acm.org>

I'm connecting to a service running on a WinXP system using 
IO::Socket::INET and for the most part it has been great.  Recently 
though I've noticed that after a long-ish period of no activity that my 
initial connect fails.  I'm running in debug mode so a simple restart of 
the script and the connection works fine.  When this runs in production 
mode I need it to not fail.  Of course I can loop through several tries 
and exit when it connects or really errors out but this seems inelegant.

   I'm sure this is some stupid Windows thing where the network 
connection is sleeping and can't wake up fast enough and will look at 
the device, network, TCP/IP settings but that will not work when I don't 
control the Windows box.

   Before getting lost ( again ) in the IO::Socket, IO::Handle, IO::* 
documentation world I'm trying for a cheap answer.  Is there a generic 
method to try and wake a TCP/IP connection?  Sort of "Hello ... McFly!"


TIA,
Rod
-- 

From raanders at acm.org  Fri Mar  3 08:39:08 2006
From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:39:08 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] IO::Socket::INET wakeup call
In-Reply-To: <20060303025428.82444.qmail@web52814.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060303025428.82444.qmail@web52814.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4408712C.1010900@acm.org>

Lisa Kachold wrote:
> Roderick,
> 
> This depends entirely on where in the OSI stack your connection is failing.
> 
> If you are connecting on either side through a 802.11b/g firewall 
> Netgear or Linksys device, your connection might actually be failing for 
> a number of reasons:

Thanks Lisa.

The two systems are on an internal switch.  After sending the message 
out yesterday I got thinking it might be a Windows NIC driver issue. 
I'll be checking on the WAKE on LAN settings and/or the-go-to-sleep-when 
-no-activity is set.

I'm also going to go the cheap route and ping the system before making 
an IO connection attempt.


Again thanks for the thoughts and links.


Rod
-- 

> Problems:
> http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/2005/070405nutter.html
> 
> Router Solutions:
> http://wrt-wiki.bsr-clan.de/index.php?title=Router_Slowdown
> 
> Other Considerations:
> PPOE:
> 
> -----and if you might be interested white you are out there:
> 
> 
>     Security Podcasts
>     <http://www.royans.net/rant/2006/03/01/security-podcasts/>
> 
> Hackaday <http://www.hackaday.com/> has a great blog entry of all the 
> nice security podcasts <http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000537073564/> 
> out there. Here are direct itunes links to all the podcasts with a few 
> more I googled.
> 
>     * Security Catalyst
>       <http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=95568073>
>     * Security Now
>       <http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/com.apple.jingle.app.store.DirectAction/viewPodcast?id=79016499>
>     * PaulDotCom
>       <http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=91472687>
>     * CyberSpeak
>       <http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=108218375>
>     * LiveAmmo Security
>       <http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=74304024&s=143441>
>     * BlueBox
>       <http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=91176899&s=143455>
>     * Crypto-Gram
>       <http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=>
>     * RSA Security
>       <http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=120345828&s=143441>
>     * MightySeek
>       <http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=74356772>
>     * eDave
>       <http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=106377741>
> 
> 
> */"Roderick A. Anderson" <raanders at acm.org>/* wrote:
> 
>     I'm connecting to a service running on a WinXP system using
>     IO::Socket::INET and for the most part it has been great. Recently
>     though I've noticed that after a long-ish period of no activity that my
>     initial connect fails. I'm running in debug mode so a simple restart of
>     the script and the connection works fine. When this runs in production
>     mode I need it to not fail. Of course I can loop through several tries
>     and exit when it connects or really errors out but this seems inelegant.
> 
>     I'm sure this is some stupid Windows thing where the network
>     connection is sleeping and can't wake up fast enough and will look at
>     the device, network, TCP/IP settings but that will not work when I
>     don't
>     control the Windows box.
> 
>     Before getting lost ( again ) in the IO::Socket, IO::Handle, IO::*
>     documentation world I'm trying for a cheap answer. Is there a generic
>     method to try and wake a TCP/IP connection? Sort of "Hello ... McFly!"
> 
> 
>     TIA,
>     Rod
>     -- 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Pdx-pm-list mailing list
>     Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
>     http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L. Kachold
> Obnosis Consulting
> (503)754-4452
> <http://www.websphere.org/websphere/Site?page=home>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail 
> <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39174/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com> 
> makes sharing a breeze.


From raanders at acm.org  Fri Mar  3 08:51:38 2006
From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:51:38 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] IO::Socket::INET wakeup call
In-Reply-To: <440769AD.3020203@acm.org>
References: <440769AD.3020203@acm.org>
Message-ID: <4408741A.9030605@acm.org>

Don't we all hate replying to our own posts.

FYI.

Lisa offered some great ideas but a glimmer of light came last night and 
I just checked the driver settings on the Windows machine.  Power Saving 
mode was enabled so the system was shutting the NIC down when inactive 
active.  Hopefully this is the solution.  I'll wait for awhile and try 
it.  Wait again and try again.


Rod
-- 

Roderick A. Anderson wrote:
> I'm connecting to a service running on a WinXP system using 
> IO::Socket::INET and for the most part it has been great.  Recently 
> though I've noticed that after a long-ish period of no activity that my 
> initial connect fails.  I'm running in debug mode so a simple restart of 
> the script and the connection works fine.  When this runs in production 
> mode I need it to not fail.  Of course I can loop through several tries 
> and exit when it connects or really errors out but this seems inelegant.
> 
>    I'm sure this is some stupid Windows thing where the network 
> connection is sleeping and can't wake up fast enough and will look at 
> the device, network, TCP/IP settings but that will not work when I don't 
> control the Windows box.
> 
>    Before getting lost ( again ) in the IO::Socket, IO::Handle, IO::* 
> documentation world I'm trying for a cheap answer.  Is there a generic 
> method to try and wake a TCP/IP connection?  Sort of "Hello ... McFly!"
> 
> 
> TIA,
> Rod


From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Mon Mar  6 07:47:00 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:47:00 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] March Meeting This Week
Message-ID: <20060306154700.GA17497@joshheumann.com>

March Meeting
March 8th, 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave

Topic: The Guts of Perl (and why you should care)
Presenter: Eric Wilhelm

Briefly covering:

(roughly) What the perl interpreter does when you throw a program at it.
How perlguts and compiled extensions work. How to peek into perl internals
with Perl code. How this knowledge is useful.

Agenda:

    * (requisite viewing of fluff / late arrivals)
    * Overview of perl's parse, compile, run process.
    * Possibly some mildly off-topic bits about XS, perlapi, etc.
    * Tour of the B:: modules.
    * (heckling)
    * Comparisons between B and PPI approaches.
    * (likely more heckling)
    * Example code, case studies, and esoteric observations.
    * (beer at the Lucky Lab) 

Applications:

    * Mechanically analyzing readability and refactorability of Perl code.
    * Design patterns and optimization insights.
    * Better understanding of what is under the hood.
    * An opportunity to heckle me (heckling-based learning optional.) 

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Wed Mar  8 10:39:06 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:39:06 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] March Meeting Tonight
Message-ID: <20060308183906.GA4100@joshheumann.com>

March Meeting
March 8th, 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave

Topic: The Guts of Perl (and why you should care)
Presenter: Eric Wilhelm

Briefly covering:

(roughly) What the perl interpreter does when you throw a program at it.
How perlguts and compiled extensions work. How to peek into perl internals
with Perl code. How this knowledge is useful.

Agenda:

    * (requisite viewing of fluff / late arrivals)
    * Overview of perl's parse, compile, run process.
    * Possibly some mildly off-topic bits about XS, perlapi, etc.
    * Tour of the B:: modules.
    * (heckling)
    * Comparisons between B and PPI approaches.
    * (likely more heckling)
    * Example code, case studies, and esoteric observations.
    * (beer at the Lucky Lab) 

Applications:

    * Mechanically analyzing readability and refactorability of Perl code.
    * Design patterns and optimization insights.
    * Better understanding of what is under the hood.
    * An opportunity to heckle me (heckling-based learning optional.) 

From randall at sonofhans.net  Sun Mar 12 13:03:23 2006
From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:03:23 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] oh, gross (object method in regex)
Message-ID: <7BB0B013-87FE-429A-9930-AE0773A7DC8E@sonofhans.net>

this works:

     grep /${ \$object->method }/ => @stuff;

but it looks disgusting.  is there a prettier way to do it?

tia,

r


From david at kineticode.com  Sun Mar 12 14:46:05 2006
From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:46:05 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] oh, gross (object method in regex)
In-Reply-To: <7BB0B013-87FE-429A-9930-AE0773A7DC8E@sonofhans.net>
References: <7BB0B013-87FE-429A-9930-AE0773A7DC8E@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <37695BB9-6CFA-4298-A432-9FB128D3701A@kineticode.com>

On Mar 12, 2006, at 13:03, Randall Hansen wrote:

> this works:
>
>      grep /${ \$object->method }/ => @stuff;
>
> but it looks disgusting.  is there a prettier way to do it?

Sure, if $object->method is sure to return the same value for each  
iteration over @stuff:

   my $match = $object->method;
   grep { /$match/ } => @stuff;

Best,

David

From chromatic at wgz.org  Sun Mar 12 14:49:19 2006
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:19 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] oh, gross (object method in regex)
In-Reply-To: <7BB0B013-87FE-429A-9930-AE0773A7DC8E@sonofhans.net>
References: <7BB0B013-87FE-429A-9930-AE0773A7DC8E@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <200603121449.20224.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Sunday 12 March 2006 13:03, Randall Hansen wrote:

> this works:
>
>      grep /${ \$object->method }/ => @stuff;
>
> but it looks disgusting.  is there a prettier way to do it?

Are you asking about using the grep BLOCK syntax or something else?  I think I 
need more context to answer your question, because:

	grep { $->method() } @stuff

... is valid code.  Or does the method() call return a regex, as David 
suggests?

-- c

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 15:46:13 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:46:13 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] oh, gross (object method in regex)
In-Reply-To: <7BB0B013-87FE-429A-9930-AE0773A7DC8E@sonofhans.net>
References: <7BB0B013-87FE-429A-9930-AE0773A7DC8E@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <200603121546.13139.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Randall Hansen
# on Sunday 12 March 2006 01:03 pm:

>this works:
>
>     grep /${ \$object->method }/ => @stuff;
>
>but it looks disgusting.  is there a prettier way to do it?

Is this prettier?

  grep /@{[ $object->method ]}/ => @stuff;

You're dereferencing a newly-created reference to the anonymous scalar 
which is returned by method().

$ perl -MO=Deparse,-p -e '$obj = "main"; sub foo {"thing"}; print 
grep(/${\$obj->foo}/, "a thing", "deal"), "\n"; print "${\$obj->foo} 
(@{[$obj->foo]})\n";print grep(/@{[$obj->foo]}/, "a thing", "deal"), 
"\n";'

($obj = 'main');
sub foo {
    'thing';
}
print(grep(/${\($obj->foo);}/, 'a thing', 'deal'), "\n");
print("${\($obj->foo);} (@{[$obj->foo];})\n");
print(grep(/@{[$obj->foo];}/, 'a thing', 'deal'), "\n");

--Eric
-- 
Like a lot of people, I was mathematically abused as a child.
--Paul Graham
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 15:54:44 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:54:44 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: Re:  subroutine calls CAN be string-interpolated!
Message-ID: <200603121554.45101.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

In case anyone missed the connection, I've forwarded the chunk from the 
previous discussion of a closely related topic.  The qr// is a 
string-interpolating quote operator.

--Eric

----------  Forwarded Message:  ----------

Subject: Re: [Pdx-pm] subroutine calls CAN be string-interpolated!
Date: Saturday 10 December 2005 03:43 pm
From: Andrew Savige <ajsavige at yahoo.com.au>
To: Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com>, pdx-pm-list at mail.pm.org

--- Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
> And you thought they had to be concatenated with that messy
> quote-breaking " . thing($stuff) . " syntax.
>
>   perl -e 'use constant foo => 7, 6; print "foo:  @{[foo]}\n";'
>
> Is this undocumented or just obscure?

According to:

 http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/3727

the @{[]} "secret operator" was invented by Randal and/or
Larry in 1994.

BTW, cog dreamed up a (presumably) vulgar name for the @{[]}
operator, as alluded to here:

 http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/3726

I don't know what this name is though.

-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
"I've often gotten the feeling that the only people who have learned
from computer assisted instruction are the authors."
--Ben Schneiderman
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From randall at sonofhans.net  Sun Mar 12 16:20:45 2006
From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:20:45 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] oh, gross (object method in regex)
In-Reply-To: <200603121546.13139.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <7BB0B013-87FE-429A-9930-AE0773A7DC8E@sonofhans.net>
	<200603121546.13139.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <B2EE8E2A-EA6F-4A83-8E36-10BD0354F301@sonofhans.net>

On Mar 12, 2006, at 3:46 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> Is this prettier?
>
>   grep /@{[ $object->method ]}/ => @stuff;

heh ... a little.  it's more magical, anyway, and that's something.

for chromatic & david (thank you all, btw):  the method returns a  
scaler.  david's method of assigning to a temporary variable works,  
and is what i've done before, but seemed ugly and wasteful because i  
only used it once.

so the reference/dereference syntax avoids the temporary variable, is  
faster[1], and explicit enough so that people who understand the rest  
of my code will get it.

thanks for thinking about it with me.

r

----
1. ref/deref is a little faster.  eric's magic (i.e. "the secret  
operator") is very slow.

Benchmark: timing 100000 iterations of deref, eric, temp...
     deref:  3 wallclock secs ( 1.45 usr +  0.01 sys =  1.46 CPU) @  
68493.15/s (n=100000)
     eric: 14 wallclock secs ( 9.79 usr +  0.11 sys =  9.90 CPU) @  
10101.01/s (n=100000)
     temp:  4 wallclock secs ( 2.18 usr +  0.02 sys =  2.20 CPU) @  
45454.55/s (n=100000)


#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use warnings;

package Foo;
     sub new { return bless {}, shift }
     sub foo { 'foo' }

package main;
     use Data::Dumper;
     use Benchmark qw/ :all /;

     my $count = 100_000;

     timethese( $count, {
         'temp'    => \&temp,
         'deref'   => \&deref,
         'eric'    => \&eric,
     });

     sub temp {
         my $Foo = Foo->new;
         my @search = qw/ baz bar foo bang /;
         return grep /${ \$Foo->foo }/ => @search;
     }

     sub deref {
         my $Foo = Foo->new;
         my @search = qw/ baz bar foo bang /;
         my $foo = $Foo->foo;
         return grep /$foo/ => @search;
     }

     sub eric {
         my $Foo = Foo->new;
         my @search = qw/ baz bar foo bang /;
         return grep /@{[ \$Foo->foo ]}/ => @search;
     }



From randall at sonofhans.net  Sun Mar 12 16:29:50 2006
From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:29:50 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] oh, gross (object method in regex)
In-Reply-To: <B2EE8E2A-EA6F-4A83-8E36-10BD0354F301@sonofhans.net>
References: <7BB0B013-87FE-429A-9930-AE0773A7DC8E@sonofhans.net>
	<200603121546.13139.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<B2EE8E2A-EA6F-4A83-8E36-10BD0354F301@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <91162C53-0CFE-4D89-A2E3-E1C19D852088@sonofhans.net>

On Mar 12, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Randall Hansen wrote:

oh, der, typo in the benchmark.  secret magic way is still slow, but  
not as bad as my previous email implied.

#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use warnings;

package Foo;
     sub new { return bless {}, shift }
     sub foo { 'foo' }

package main;
     use Data::Dumper;
     use Benchmark qw/ :all /;

     my $count = 100_000;

     timethese( $count, {
         'temp'    => \&temp,
         'deref'   => \&deref,
         'eric'    => \&eric,
         'eric_correct'   => \&eric_correct,
     });

     sub temp {
         my $Foo = Foo->new;
         my @search = qw/ baz bar foo bang /;
         return grep /${ \$Foo->foo }/ => @search;
     }

     sub deref {
         my $Foo = Foo->new;
         my @search = qw/ baz bar foo bang /;
         my $foo = $Foo->foo;
         return grep /$foo/ => @search;
     }

     sub eric {
         my $Foo = Foo->new;
         my @search = qw/ baz bar foo bang /;
         return grep /@{[ \$Foo->foo ]}/ => @search;
     }

     sub eric_correct {
         my $Foo = Foo->new;
         my @search = qw/ baz bar foo bang /;
         return grep /@{[ $Foo->foo ]}/ => @search;
     }

__END__
results:
Benchmark: timing 100000 iterations of deref, eric, eric_correct,  
temp...
        deref:  2 wallclock secs ( 1.45 usr +  0.01 sys =  1.46 CPU)  
@ 68493.15/s (n=100000)
         eric: 13 wallclock secs ( 9.82 usr +  0.12 sys =  9.94 CPU)  
@ 10060.36/s (n=100000)
eric_correct:  4 wallclock secs ( 2.92 usr +  0.03 sys =  2.95 CPU) @  
33898.31/s (n=100000)
         temp:  2 wallclock secs ( 2.15 usr +  0.03 sys =  2.18 CPU)  
@ 45871.56/s (n=100000)



From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 18:21:58 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:21:58 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] oh, gross (object method in regex)
In-Reply-To: <B2EE8E2A-EA6F-4A83-8E36-10BD0354F301@sonofhans.net>
References: <7BB0B013-87FE-429A-9930-AE0773A7DC8E@sonofhans.net>
	<200603121546.13139.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<B2EE8E2A-EA6F-4A83-8E36-10BD0354F301@sonofhans.net>
Message-ID: <200603121821.58239.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Randall Hansen
# on Sunday 12 March 2006 04:20 pm:

(snippets from your next e-mail for correctness)

Note that what you called temp was actually the one using the scalar 
deref construct.

(renamed "temp" to "scalar reference")
>     sub sref {
...
>         return grep /${ \$Foo->foo }/ => @search;

(renamed "eric correct" to "array ref")
>     sub aref {
...
>         return grep /@{[ $Foo->foo ]}/ => @search;

(renamed "deref" to "real temp")
>     sub rtmp {
...
>         my $foo = $Foo->foo;
>         return grep /$foo/ => @search;

And just the important numbers here:
> rtmp:  2 secs @ 68k/s
> aref:  4 secs @ 34k/s
> sref:  2 secs @ 46k/s

>david's method of assigning to a temporary variable works, ?
>and is what i've done before, but seemed ugly and wasteful because i ?
>only used it once.

Not only is it important to benchmark, it is really important to 
benchmark correctly :-)

>so the reference/dereference syntax avoids the temporary variable, is
> ? faster[1], and explicit enough so that people who understand the
> rest of my code will get it.

Let's be clear what the four forms in your benchmark are.

The original "eric" sub is going to yield incorrect results because the 
backslash turns it into /@{[\($Foo->foo)];}/ when you run deparse on it 
(that's a list of one reference to a scalar once it gets captured in 
the [] array referenced and flattened by the @{} cyclops.)  So, best to 
just throw that away and pretend we never saw it, since fast or slow 
incorrect behavior is irrelevant.

The "eric_correct" sub is an array dereference construct, as hinted at 
by my above renaming to "aref".

The one you called "temp" is actually the scalar dereference construct.  
I would expect that this is faster than the array dereference by at 
least a little because the code is following a "one value" path through 
perl rather than a list path.

Finally, the one you called "deref" is using a temp variable ("rtmp" 
above.)

Note that the temp variable is about 3/2 the speed of the scalar 
dereference and twice as fast as the and twice the speed of the array 
dereference.

Why is a temp variable faster?  Feel free to play with B::Concise and 
post the pertinent snippets of the optree here when you find them.  The 
lazy find something to blame and move on (Schwern called this the "User 
Model" if you remember his talk on design.)

I was going to choose the garbage collector as my straw man.  Seems that 
pass-by-value to a nearby lexical would at least be easier to keep 
track of than an anonymous reference inside a regex.

But, hey!

$ perl -e 'my $obj = "main";
  sub foo {warn "hey\n"; "thing"};
  print grep(/${\($obj->foo)}/, "a thing", "deal", "stuff");'
hey
hey
hey
a thing

Temp variable pops you out of the need to call the method every time, so 
if you increase the size of @search, your numbers are going to get a 
lot worse.  Did you guess that would happen?  I sure didn't!

--Eric
-- 
Turns out the optimal technique is to put it in reverse and gun it.
--Steven Squyres (on challenges in interplanetary robot navigation)
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 18:39:33 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:39:33 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] oh, gross grep() re-evaluates the regex
In-Reply-To: <200603121821.58239.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <7BB0B013-87FE-429A-9930-AE0773A7DC8E@sonofhans.net>
	<B2EE8E2A-EA6F-4A83-8E36-10BD0354F301@sonofhans.net>
	<200603121821.58239.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <200603121839.33886.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Eric Wilhelm
# on Sunday 12 March 2006 06:21 pm:

>But, hey!
>
>$ perl -e 'my $obj = "main";
>? sub foo {warn "hey\n"; "thing"};
>? print grep(/${\($obj->foo)}/, "a thing", "deal", "stuff");'
>hey
>hey
>hey
>a thing
>
>Temp variable pops you out of the need to call the method every time,
> so if you increase the size of @search, your numbers are going to get
> a lot worse. ?Did you guess that would happen? ?I sure didn't!

So, I just had to try it.  With only 100 elements, the tmpv version is 
hugely faster.

      aref: 28 secs @ 4k/s
      sref: 18 secs @ 6k/s
      tmpv:  5 secs @ 21k/s

  http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/grep_subcall.pl

It's all setup if you want to flip the 0 on that first if() and load 
something out of project Gutenberg for a larger, more random test set.

--Eric
-- 
A counterintuitive sansevieria trifasciata was once literalized 
guiltily.
--Product of Artificial Intelligence
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 19:01:10 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:01:10 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] perl in the pearl, Sat Mar 25th, 1pm
Message-ID: <200603121901.10635.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Hi all,

What's the deal that my wife the sci-fi writer has to tell me these 
things?  Are this many of our own mongers too modest to self-promote?

  http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/calendar#910

--Eric
-- 
So malloc calls a timeout and starts rummaging around the free chain,
sorting things out, and merging adjacent small free blocks into larger
blocks. This takes 3 1/2 days.
--Joel Spolsky
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From chromatic at wgz.org  Sun Mar 12 19:14:51 2006
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:14:51 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] perl in the pearl, Sat Mar 25th, 1pm
In-Reply-To: <200603121901.10635.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200603121901.10635.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <200603121914.51514.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Sunday 12 March 2006 19:01, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> What's the deal that my wife the sci-fi writer has to tell me these
> things?  Are this many of our own mongers too modest to self-promote?
>
>   http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/calendar#910

Sorry, too busy writing my own sci-fi to remember that that's two weeks from 
yesterday.

-- c

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Sun Mar 12 19:17:07 2006
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 12 Mar 2006 19:17:07 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] perl in the pearl, Sat Mar 25th, 1pm
In-Reply-To: <200603121901.10635.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200603121901.10635.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <864q23jaoc.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> writes:

Eric> What's the deal that my wife the sci-fi writer has to tell me these 
Eric> things?  Are this many of our own mongers too modest to self-promote?

Eric>   http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/calendar#910

Not necessarily modest.  Just presuming someone else will discover
the truth before we have to ram it down their throat. :)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Mar 13 10:49:04 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:49:04 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: [PLUG] ANNOUNCEMENT: Advanced Topics March 15th 2006
Message-ID: <200603131049.04544.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Hi all,

I'm sure that those of you who couldn't make it last Wednesday were 
terribly sad to have missed this.  But, you get a second chance (except 
Randal.)

Those who were there and can't get enough of me or just want to see how 
well this goes with beer are welcome to come too :-)

--Eric

----------  Forwarded Message:  ----------

Subject: [PLUG] ANNOUNCEMENT: Advanced Topics March 15th 2006
Date: Sunday 12 March 2006 10:42 pm
From: Alan <alan at clueserver.org>
To: plug-announce at lists.pdxlinux.org, PLUG list 
<plug at lists.pdxlinux.org>

Portland Linux/Unix Group Advanced Topics

Topic: The Guts of Perl (and why you should care)
Presenter: Eric Wilhelm

Date:               March 15th 2006
Time:               7:00pm - 9:00pm

Location:           Jax 826 SW 2nd Ave
                    Portland, OR

Briefly covering:

(roughly) What the perl interpreter does when you throw a program at
 it. How perlguts and compiled extensions work. How to peek into perl
 internals with Perl code. How this knowledge is useful.

Agenda:

  * Overview of perl's parse, compile, run process.
  * Possibly some mildly off-topic bits about XS, perlapi, etc.
  * Tour of the B:: modules.
  * Comparisons between B and PPI approaches.
  * Example code, case studies, and esoteric observations.

Applications:

  * Mechanically analyzing readability and refactorability of Perl code.
  * Design patterns and optimization insights.
  * Better understanding of what is under the hood.

Usual meeting rules apply.

_______________________________________________
PLUG mailing list
PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug

-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
--Occam's Razor
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 01:21:14 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:21:14 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] slides / podcast
Message-ID: <200603140121.14450.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

The slides from last week's talk are up on my site now.

  http://scratchcomputing.com/developers/perl_guts_tour.html

And the podcast is out too:

  http://pdxpm.podasp.com/archive.html?pname=meetings.xml

--Eric
-- 
As an old bass player friend of mine used to say: throw money, don't 
clap.
--Tony Parisi
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From raanders at acm.org  Thu Mar 16 12:08:07 2006
From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:08:07 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] ppml creation/processing w/ perl
Message-ID: <4419C5A7.3070203@acm.org>

I looked on CPAN for modules to create ppml ( Personal Printer Markup 
Language ) files but had no luck.

Does anyone know of a _really_ new or undocumented project for ppml coding?

Currently we're using XMPIE to create ppml files for our digital press. 
  But it is slow ... really slow ( about 20 minutes for 100 covers ) and 
the server version -- besides coming with quite a few bells and whistles 
we don't need -- is expensive.

Since we don't use most of the logic that the XMPIE software provides 
and we can do in our code anyway I was thinking it could be generated 
much faster using perl.

This ring a bell for anyone?


Thanks,
Rod
-- 

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Mon Mar 20 10:48:24 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:48:24 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
Message-ID: <20060320184824.GF9641@joshheumann.com>

A Eric noted, there will be an event at Powell's Tech on Saturday
at 1pm featuring our own Allison Randall, Randal Schwartz, Tom Phoenix,
chromatic, Ovid, and brian d foy (http://www.powells.com/calendar.html#910).

brian let me know that they are having a book party for the launch of
Intermediate Perl, and suggested a mid-month social meeting to go along
with the book party.  Any suggestions for times and places?

J

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Mon Mar 20 10:54:12 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:54:12 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] [contract] Seeking bids
Message-ID: <20060320185412.GH9641@joshheumann.com>

----- Forwarded message from freyley at freegeek.org -----

Folks,

I'm looking for skilled programmer contractors who'd be interested in
submitting a bid on a perl project, timeline from 1-3 months long,
expected start within the next month. 

The project is to add a large featureset to an existing application. All
code will be GPL'd, either by the maintainers of that application if
they approve of it or by us if they don't. Code samples will be
requested so as to ascertain the likelihood of acceptance by the project
(we don't want t have to maintain it ourselves). Code that is heavily
object oriented and has tests is the likeliest to win approval.

Expected skills: perl, javascript, html, css, humor.

Please respond directly to me for more information, as I'm not on this
list.

Thanks,

Jeff
freyley at freegeek.org


----- End forwarded message -----

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 15:32:33 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:32:33 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Linuxfest Northwest 2006
Message-ID: <200603211532.33218.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Hello pm'ers,

If you haven't heard, there's this thing going on up north on April 
29th.  Looks like lots of Portlanders will be presenting including 
several of our fellow perl mongers (Chris D, Keith L, Brian M, Mike R, 
and Yours T as of the preliminary schedule.)

Call for presenters remains open until April 1.

  http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/

--Eric
-- 
We who cut mere stones must always be envisioning cathedrals.
--Quarry worker's creed
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Tue Mar 21 21:53:19 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:53:19 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
Message-ID: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>

I haven't gotten any word on this.  Does this mean no one is interested,
or does the camel have your tongue?

J

> <quote who="Josh Heumann">
> A Eric noted, there will be an event at Powell's Tech on Saturday
> at 1pm featuring our own Allison Randall, Randal Schwartz, Tom Phoenix,
> chromatic, Ovid, and brian d foy (http://www.powells.com/calendar.html#910).
> 
> brian let me know that they are having a book party for the launch of
> Intermediate Perl, and suggested a mid-month social meeting to go along
> with the book party.  Any suggestions for times and places?
> 
> J

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Tue Mar 21 21:53:56 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:53:56 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] ordered books
Message-ID: <20060322055356.GA20587@joshheumann.com>

I have another shipment of books:

- Web Design in a Nutshell
- The DJ Handbook
- Wicked Cool Perl Scripts

If any of these are yours, or they sound interesting, let me know and
we'll figure out a time to do the handoff.

J

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 22:23:20 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:23:20 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <200603212223.20900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Josh Heumann
# on Tuesday 21 March 2006 09:53 pm:

>I haven't gotten any word on this.  Does this mean no one is
> interested, or does the camel have your tongue?

I'll take door no. 3, Bob.  When is the book party?  What is the 
protocol for geeks meeting in a dark bar on a (rainish?) spring 
afternoon?  Where's the part where Powell's buys beer?

4pm?  R&R?  LL?  I have no idea how long Perl in the Pearl lasts and I'm 
still clueless as to what's the party (or is that the 1pm thing?)  The 
gogopuffs.com site doesn't have much info either.

--Eric

>> <quote who="Josh Heumann">
>> A Eric noted, there will be an event at Powell's Tech on Saturday
>> at 1pm featuring our own Allison Randall, Randal Schwartz, Tom
>> Phoenix, chromatic, Ovid, and brian d foy
>> (http://www.powells.com/calendar.html#910).
>>
>> brian let me know that they are having a book party for the launch
>> of Intermediate Perl, and suggested a mid-month social meeting to go
>> along with the book party.  Any suggestions for times and places?
-- 
"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious."
--Murphy's Second Corollary
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Wed Mar 22 06:00:10 2006
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 22 Mar 2006 06:00:10 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <200603212223.20900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<200603212223.20900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <864q1qd1g5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> writes:

Eric> 4pm?  R&R?  LL?  I have no idea how long Perl in the Pearl lasts and I'm 
Eric> still clueless as to what's the party (or is that the 1pm thing?)  The 
Eric> gogopuffs.com site doesn't have much info either.

It goes until the last geek is left standing!

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From alan at clueserver.org  Wed Mar 22 08:40:22 2006
From: alan at clueserver.org (alan)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:40:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <864q1qd1g5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<200603212223.20900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<864q1qd1g5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0603220840120.22485@blackbox.fnordora.org>

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

>>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> writes:
>
> Eric> 4pm?  R&R?  LL?  I have no idea how long Perl in the Pearl lasts and I'm
> Eric> still clueless as to what's the party (or is that the 1pm thing?)  The
> Eric> gogopuffs.com site doesn't have much info either.
>
> It goes until the last geek is left standing!

Perl drops?

-- 
"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over." - Frank Zappa

From keithl at kl-ic.com  Wed Mar 22 12:43:12 2006
From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:43:12 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <864q1qd1g5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<200603212223.20900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<864q1qd1g5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <20060322204312.GC7133@gate.kl-ic.com>


Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> writes:
Eric> 4pm?  R&R?  LL?  I have no idea how long Perl in the Pearl lasts and I'm 
Eric> still clueless as to what's the party (or is that the 1pm thing?)  The 
Eric> gogopuffs.com site doesn't have much info either.
 
On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 06:00:10AM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> It goes until the last geek is left standing!

Apropos of almost nothing, the other night my wife and I watched as
much as we could stand of Donovan's Reef.  The theme song is something
called Pearly Shells.  The words (english and hawai'ian) are out on
the web, and there are even MP3s (including instrumental only).

The thought of Randal showing up at Powells in a grass skirt, and
doing a Karaoke version of Perl-y Shells, makes my brain clench.

Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom          keithl at keithl.com         Voice (503)-520-1993
KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon"
Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Wed Mar 22 13:28:23 2006
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 22 Mar 2006 13:28:23 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <20060322204312.GC7133@gate.kl-ic.com>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<200603212223.20900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<864q1qd1g5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<20060322204312.GC7133@gate.kl-ic.com>
Message-ID: <86veu688zs.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Lofstrom <keithl at kl-ic.com> writes:

Keith> The thought of Randal showing up at Powells in a grass skirt, and
Keith> doing a Karaoke version of Perl-y Shells, makes my brain clench.

It'd be a safe bet that this will not happen any time soon.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From mikeraz at patch.com  Wed Mar 22 13:47:42 2006
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:47:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <86veu688zs.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<200603212223.20900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<864q1qd1g5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<20060322204312.GC7133@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<86veu688zs.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <37216.170.135.112.12.1143064062.squirrel@mail.patch.com>


Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Lofstrom <keithl at kl-ic.com> writes:
> Keith> The thought of Randal showing up at Powells in a grass skirt, and
> Keith> doing a Karaoke version of Perl-y Shells, makes my brain clench.
>
> It'd be a safe bet that this will not happen any time soon.

How about in a sarong and a Hawaiian shirt?

Michael 'have sarong from travel' R

-- 
   Michael Rasmussen, Portland, Ore, USA
  Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity
        http://www.patch.com/words/



From alan at clueserver.org  Wed Mar 22 13:52:36 2006
From: alan at clueserver.org (alan)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:52:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <37216.170.135.112.12.1143064062.squirrel@mail.patch.com>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<200603212223.20900.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<864q1qd1g5.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<20060322204312.GC7133@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<86veu688zs.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<37216.170.135.112.12.1143064062.squirrel@mail.patch.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0603221351290.25254@blackbox.fnordora.org>

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Michael Rasmussen wrote:

>
> Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Lofstrom <keithl at kl-ic.com> writes:
>> Keith> The thought of Randal showing up at Powells in a grass skirt, and
>> Keith> doing a Karaoke version of Perl-y Shells, makes my brain clench.
>>
>> It'd be a safe bet that this will not happen any time soon.
>
> How about in a sarong and a Hawaiian shirt?
>
> Michael 'have sarong from travel' R

"The sarong has ended, but the malady lingers on..."

-- 
"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over." - Frank Zappa

From krisb at ring.org  Wed Mar 22 14:01:18 2006
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Win32 network files
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603221356340.1236-100000@ender.ring.org>


	Has anyone accessed network disks on Win32 in perl?

e.g.

\\a\b\c

I can't figure out how to quote these properly to perl.

For example,

dir \\a\b\c works, but

perl -e "print qq{hello\n} if -f q{\\a\b\c}" doesn't.

If I map "x:" to "\\a\" then perl -e "print qq{hello\n} if -f q{x:\b\c}"

works.  I can't use the map because of another bug.

Thanks.

-Kris


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 14:15:22 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:15:22 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0603221351290.25254@blackbox.fnordora.org>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<37216.170.135.112.12.1143064062.squirrel@mail.patch.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603221351290.25254@blackbox.fnordora.org>
Message-ID: <200603221415.22844.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from alan
# on Wednesday 22 March 2006 01:52 pm:

>On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Michael Rasmussen wrote:
>> Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Lofstrom <keithl at kl-ic.com> writes:
>>>
>>> Keith> The thought of Randal showing up at Powells in a grass
>>> skirt, and Keith> doing a Karaoke version of Perl-y Shells, makes
>>> my brain clench.
>>>
>>> It'd be a safe bet that this will not happen any time soon.
>>
>> How about in a sarong and a Hawaiian shirt?
>>
>> Michael 'have sarong from travel' R
>
>"The sarong has ended, but the malady lingers on..."

If I've parsed this correctly, the answer is 42?

At 4:20 we'll all walk 42 steps north and have a social meeting there?

Sounds like it might be a safe bet that something ad-hoc, social, and 
meetish will happen before and/or after the party.

--Eric
-- 
Issues of control, repair, improvement, cost, or just plain
understandability all come down strongly in favor of open source
solutions to complex problems of any sort.
--Robert G. Brown
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 14:27:05 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:27:05 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Win32 network files
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603221356340.1236-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603221356340.1236-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <200603221427.06066.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Maybe peek into File::Spec::Win32 and take another look at perlport.

# from Kris Bosland
# on Wednesday 22 March 2006 02:01 pm:

>perl -e "print qq{hello\n} if -f q{\\a\b\c}" doesn't.

Perl should take / as the separator for anything internal (e.g. not 
arguments to exec/system commands.)

  perl -e "print qq{hello\n} if -f q{//a/b/c}"

also, q{\\} eq q{\} here.  Maybe \\\\ is all you need.

--Eric
-- 
Chicken farmer's observation:  Clunk is the past tense of cluck.
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Wed Mar 22 15:17:39 2006
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 22 Mar 2006 15:17:39 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <200603221415.22844.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<37216.170.135.112.12.1143064062.squirrel@mail.patch.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603221351290.25254@blackbox.fnordora.org>
	<200603221415.22844.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <86lkv283xo.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> writes:

Eric> Sounds like it might be a safe bet that something ad-hoc, social, and 
Eric> meetish will happen before and/or after the party.

We who are mentioned in the press release are meeting ahead of the meeting in
a private pre-meeting.  Anything publicly social will have to wait until after
the meeting for a social post-meeting.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Wed Mar 22 16:31:13 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:31:13 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <200603221415.22844.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<37216.170.135.112.12.1143064062.squirrel@mail.patch.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603221351290.25254@blackbox.fnordora.org>
	<200603221415.22844.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <20060323003112.GQ25585@joshheumann.com>

<quote who='Eric Wilhelm' when='Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 02:15:22PM -0800'>
> Sounds like it might be a safe bet that something ad-hoc, social, and 
> meetish will happen before and/or after the party.

This sounds like the most likely option.

In related news, April's meeting is as of yet unplanned.  Would anyone
like to present?

Josh

From lemming at quirkyqatz.com  Thu Mar 23 08:58:12 2006
From: lemming at quirkyqatz.com (Mark Morgan)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:58:12 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <86lkv283xo.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<37216.170.135.112.12.1143064062.squirrel@mail.patch.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603221351290.25254@blackbox.fnordora.org>
	<200603221415.22844.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<86lkv283xo.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <24537.63.226.124.179.1143133092.squirrel@webmail7.pair.com>

Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> writes:
>
> Eric> Sounds like it might be a safe bet that something ad-hoc,
> Eric> social, and meetish will happen before and/or after the party.
>
> We who are mentioned in the press release are meeting ahead of the
> meeting in a private pre-meeting.  Anything publicly social will have
> to wait until after the meeting for a social post-meeting.

You might want to have a meeting to discuss the agenda for the pre-meeting.



From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Thu Mar 23 09:21:10 2006
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 23 Mar 2006 09:21:10 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <24537.63.226.124.179.1143133092.squirrel@webmail7.pair.com>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<37216.170.135.112.12.1143064062.squirrel@mail.patch.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603221351290.25254@blackbox.fnordora.org>
	<200603221415.22844.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<86lkv283xo.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<24537.63.226.124.179.1143133092.squirrel@webmail7.pair.com>
Message-ID: <86acbh6prt.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Morgan <lemming at quirkyqatz.com> writes:

>> We who are mentioned in the press release are meeting ahead of the
>> meeting in a private pre-meeting.  Anything publicly social will have
>> to wait until after the meeting for a social post-meeting.

Mark> You might want to have a meeting to discuss the agenda for the
Mark> pre-meeting.

I think we've covered that in the hourly conference call.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From raanders at acm.org  Thu Mar 23 12:40:51 2006
From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:40:51 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Win32 network files
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603221356340.1236-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603221356340.1236-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <442307D3.5050806@acm.org>

Kris Bosland wrote:
> 	Has anyone accessed network disks on Win32 in perl?
> 

Are you using ActiveState Perl?  Seems to me I could use forward slashes 
when calling from inside perl.  I've been lucky enough to avoid Windows 
for the last few months and was able to map the resource to a drive 
letter on the systems I had to work with/on.

> e.g.
> 
> \\a\b\c

e.g.
	//a/b/c



Rod
-- 

From krisb at ring.org  Thu Mar 23 13:08:53 2006
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:08:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Win32 network files
In-Reply-To: <442307D3.5050806@acm.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603231305500.1236-100000@ender.ring.org>


	Yes, I did try that and it didn't work.
I may try to put together a series of tests.  For now my workaround is to
copy things to a disk local to my server.

Thanks.

-Kris

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006, Roderick A. Anderson wrote:

> Kris Bosland wrote:
> > 	Has anyone accessed network disks on Win32 in perl?
> >
>
> Are you using ActiveState Perl?  Seems to me I could use forward slashes
> when calling from inside perl.  I've been lucky enough to avoid Windows
> for the last few months and was able to map the resource to a drive
> letter on the systems I had to work with/on.
>
> > e.g.
> >
> > \\a\b\c
>
> e.g.
> 	//a/b/c
>
>
>
> Rod
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
>
> !DSPAM:4423055c163026077620104!
>
>


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Mar 23 09:07:52 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:07:52 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <24537.63.226.124.179.1143133092.squirrel@webmail7.pair.com>
References: <20060322055319.GA20675@joshheumann.com>
	<86lkv283xo.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<24537.63.226.124.179.1143133092.squirrel@webmail7.pair.com>
Message-ID: <200603230907.52719.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Mark Morgan
# on Thursday 23 March 2006 08:58 am:

>You might want to have a meeting to discuss the agenda for the
> pre-meeting.

We'll put that on the agenda for the post-meeting.

--Eric
-- 
Atavism  n:  The recurrence of any peculiarity or disease of an ancestor
in a subsequent generation, usually due to genetic recombination.
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From dennis at giantfir.com  Fri Mar 24 17:07:57 2006
From: dennis at giantfir.com (Dennis McNulty)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:07:57 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Win32 network files
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603231305500.1236-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603231305500.1236-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <442497ED.1050800@giantfir.com>

What works for me for ActiveState Perl is to set up a Windows "share" on 
the target Win machine + folder combo, assign the share name with a 
drive letter on the local machine, then in the Perl script, refer to 
that drive letter - example: "P:\\folder\\file.ext" . You could do the 
assignment in Perl by making a system() call with command argument "NET 
USE <drv_ltr> \\\\machine\\share". I think MS DOS boxes can only access 
remote drives using this method.

- Dennis McNulty
=====================================================================

Kris Bosland wrote:

>	Yes, I did try that and it didn't work.
>I may try to put together a series of tests.  For now my workaround is to
>copy things to a disk local to my server.
>
>Thanks.
>
>-Kris
>
>On Thu, 23 Mar 2006, Roderick A. Anderson wrote:
>
>
>>Kris Bosland wrote:
>>
>>>	Has anyone accessed network disks on Win32 in perl?
>>>
>>>
>>Are you using ActiveState Perl?  Seems to me I could use forward slashes
>>when calling from inside perl.  I've been lucky enough to avoid Windows
>>for the last few months and was able to map the resource to a drive
>>letter on the systems I had to work with/on.
>>
>>
>>>e.g.
>>>
>>>\\a\b\c
>>>
>>e.g.
>>	//a/b/c
>>
>>
>>
>>Rod
>>--
>>_______________________________________________
>>Pdx-pm-list mailing list
>>Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
>>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>>
>>
>>!DSPAM:4423055c163026077620104!
>>
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Pdx-pm-list mailing list
>Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
>
>


From jerry.gay at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 17:17:23 2006
From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:17:23 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Win32 network files
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603221356340.1236-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603221356340.1236-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <1d9a3f400603241717j20fc849dn4a6f57f28c4d215f@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/22/06, Kris Bosland <krisb at ring.org> wrote:
>
>         Has anyone accessed network disks on Win32 in perl?
>
D:\usr\local\parrot\trunk>perl -MFile::Spec::Functions=catdir -e"print
'hello' if -d catdir qw{ //machina d$ usr local parrot trunk }"
hello
D:\usr\local\parrot\trunk>

where my machine name is 'machina' and 'd$' is a file share. to use
your example,

> perl -e "print qq{hello\n} if -f q{\\a\b\c}" doesn't.
perl -MFile::Spec::Functions=catfile -e "print qq{hello\n} if -f
catfile qw{//a b c}"

of course, if the dir or file names have embedded spaces, you'll have
to use something other than qw{}.
~jerry

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sat Mar 25 18:43:17 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:43:17 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting
Message-ID: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Hi all,

We were talking after the meeting after the meeting today about whether 
there is anything planned for the next meeting.

Chromatic and Ovid both reminded me that Josh had been hoping to come up 
with some more introductory-level talks (I thought that's what I was 
doing last month?)

ASIDE {
I'm guessing this is in the pursuit of getting more than 10-20 people to 
show up at the meetings each month?  Maybe a survey is in order.

How many people are on this mailing list?  If you live nowhere near pdx, 
put your hand down :-)

If the answer is "more than 20", what would it take to get you to 
freegeek on a regular basis?
}

So, assuming that what we want are some more accessible topics and 
further assuming that we have no plans for the April meeting topic, 
might I suggest that the April meeting be used to generate topics and / 
or material / marketing for the May meeting?

--Eric
-- 
But you can never get 3n from n, ever, and if you think you can, please
email me the stock ticker of your company so I can short it.
--Joel Spolsky
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From ben.hengst at gmail.com  Sat Mar 25 21:17:33 2006
From: ben.hengst at gmail.com (benh)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 00:17:33 -0500
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <85ddf48b0603252117p12e206fcq6af7bb4d33c9679c@mail.gmail.com>

1) I would love to be there for some intro talks. I would say that my
skill level is rather basic when compared to what is possible, so if I
could be any help for bouncing ideas off of please email me.

2) I do *live* in Portland (more later)  and I have a few pals from
school that are interested in perl, I've passed the word about
meetings but I dont think that any one has taken the bate. This could
be a good incentive though.

3) As for why I dont show up more often... please call my boss and
tell them to stop sending me out of town the week that we have
meetings... that would be grand.

benh~

On 3/25/06, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We were talking after the meeting after the meeting today about whether
> there is anything planned for the next meeting.
>
> Chromatic and Ovid both reminded me that Josh had been hoping to come up
> with some more introductory-level talks (I thought that's what I was
> doing last month?)
>
> ASIDE {
> I'm guessing this is in the pursuit of getting more than 10-20 people to
> show up at the meetings each month?  Maybe a survey is in order.
>
> How many people are on this mailing list?  If you live nowhere near pdx,
> put your hand down :-)
>
> If the answer is "more than 20", what would it take to get you to
> freegeek on a regular basis?
> }
>
> So, assuming that what we want are some more accessible topics and
> further assuming that we have no plans for the April meeting topic,
> might I suggest that the April meeting be used to generate topics and /
> or material / marketing for the May meeting?
>
> --Eric
> --
> But you can never get 3n from n, ever, and if you think you can, please
> email me the stock ticker of your company so I can short it.
> --Joel Spolsky
> ---------------------------------------------------
>     http://scratchcomputing.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From dennis at giantfir.com  Sat Mar 25 23:04:18 2006
From: dennis at giantfir.com (Dennis McNulty)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:04:18 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <44263CF2.2060806@giantfir.com>

I usually have conflicts on Wednesday nights, and I've only been able to 
attend Monger meetings just once a year on average. I've always enjoyed 
the meetings when I can get to them. Even if a presentation isn't on a 
topic close to my front burner, the social time often gets around to 
topics that are.

It can get professionally lonely when you're it in a one-man IT department.

- Dennis McNulty
================================================================

Eric Wilhelm wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>We were talking after the meeting after the meeting today about whether 
>there is anything planned for the next meeting.
>
>Chromatic and Ovid both reminded me that Josh had been hoping to come up 
>with some more introductory-level talks (I thought that's what I was 
>doing last month?)
>
>ASIDE {
>I'm guessing this is in the pursuit of getting more than 10-20 people to 
>show up at the meetings each month?  Maybe a survey is in order.
>
>How many people are on this mailing list?  If you live nowhere near pdx, 
>put your hand down :-)
>
>If the answer is "more than 20", what would it take to get you to 
>freegeek on a regular basis?
>}
>
>So, assuming that what we want are some more accessible topics and 
>further assuming that we have no plans for the April meeting topic, 
>might I suggest that the April meeting be used to generate topics and / 
>or material / marketing for the May meeting?
>
>--Eric
>


From keithl at kl-ic.com  Sun Mar 26 13:05:02 2006
From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:05:02 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Why go to meetings? was Re:  April Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <20060326210501.GA3557@gate.kl-ic.com>

On Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 06:43:17PM -0800, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> If the answer is "more than 20", what would it take to get you to 
> freegeek on a regular basis?

I have a pretty full schedule, but I could make time for some Perl
best practices discussions for newbies.  Teach us to have "Perl
mind."  Here's some things I would like to see:

1) Take apart a small piece of well written code, and explain
why it is well written, and point out where mistakes were avoided.
Small examples that do big things, that can be covered thoroughly.
Emphasis on "correct output, permissive input" rather than speed
or size optimization.

2) Repair a small piece of not-so-well written code; this will be
harder, because replacement may be easier than repair, but not so
illuminating.  It will be hard to find suitable examples.

3) Code clinic.  Folks bring in small bits of repairable code,
and subject their code, their thought processes, and their 
personal self-esteem to scrutiny.

4) Explain the architecture of a large piece of well written
code, and why things are divided up the way they are.  Not much
line-by-line stuff.

5) Design techniques for usability - what makes a Perl program more
usable to a non-technical user?  What modules and evaluation aids 
assist in this process?  Pick one or two out of the hundreds 
available that provide the most improvement with a small amount of
work.

6) Objects.  I love Randal's intermediate book, but object methods
remain a follow-the-cookbook abstraction for me.  Teach me to love
objects, too.

More topics along those lines.  The point of any of these exercises
isn't to tell all about any given topic, it is to present a few
simple points in such a crystal clear manner that they stick forever. 
That is harder, because if the presenter has been living and breathing
some topic for months or years, it is hard to extract the essence,
simplify it, and forgo talking about all the nifty (but complicated)
aspects that are fascinating to the experienced programmer.

Thought about in a different way, if you were to have brain surgery
tomorrow, and they were to remove 95% of your Perl knowledge, what
would you preserve, to rebuild upon afterwards?

With a solid core understanding of the "feeling of doing Perl
correctly", all the complicated stuff can be hung on later and
it will tend to align properly.  "Perl Chiropractic" as it were.

Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom          keithl at keithl.com         Voice (503)-520-1993
KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon"
Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs

From xrdawson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 18:11:37 2006
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:11:37 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <20060320184824.GF9641@joshheumann.com>
References: <20060320184824.GF9641@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30603261811n5c19398cxecf5069444fc9cdb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

The podcast for yesterday's event is now posted:

http://pdxpm.podasp.com/archive.html?pname=meetings.xml

Chris

On 3/20/06, Josh Heumann <perl-pm at joshheumann.com> wrote:
> A Eric noted, there will be an event at Powell's Tech on Saturday
> at 1pm featuring our own Allison Randall, Randal Schwartz, Tom Phoenix,
> chromatic, Ovid, and brian d foy (http://www.powells.com/calendar.html#910).
>
> brian let me know that they are having a book party for the launch of
> Intermediate Perl, and suggested a mid-month social meeting to go along
> with the book party.  Any suggestions for times and places?
>
> J
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Sun Mar 26 18:26:33 2006
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 26 Mar 2006 18:26:33 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Social meeting for Powell's event this saturday
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30603261811n5c19398cxecf5069444fc9cdb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060320184824.GF9641@joshheumann.com>
	<659b9ea30603261811n5c19398cxecf5069444fc9cdb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <861wwo1v3a.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Chris" == Chris Dawson <xrdawson at gmail.com> writes:

Chris> The podcast for yesterday's event is now posted:

Chris> http://pdxpm.podasp.com/archive.html?pname=meetings.xml

Be sure not to miss my dramatic reading from the Alpaca, on making the monkey
very angry.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From dhmedley at aol.com  Sun Mar 26 18:30:22 2006
From: dhmedley at aol.com (dhmedley@aol.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:30:22 -0500
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting
Message-ID: <8C81F5D887BCFD6-15DC-F219@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>

> If the answer is "more than 20", what would it take to get you to
> freegeek on a regular basis?

A better TriMet / Bus method of getting there.   Driving into East 
Portland
from Beaverton at 5PM is NOT conducive to learning anything new.

I AM appreciative of the mp3 podcast recordings that are made -- thanks 
much for them !
ASIDE {
     May I suggest the better open source alternative ( .ogg ) ?
}

Maybe Free Geek would allow a net meeting format / camera of some sort 
?  Would cyberattendence
count ?






From david.brewer at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 18:42:48 2006
From: david.brewer at gmail.com (David Brewer)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:42:48 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <2248649a0603261842n65f9a498o3db32f7e1e8ccea5@mail.gmail.com>

I'm lurking on the list and enjoying what I read.  I've only signed up
recently, but I'll probably be coming to some meetings to check it out
once my workload returns to a level that makes that physically
possible.  :-)

David Brewer

On 3/25/06, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We were talking after the meeting after the meeting today about whether
> there is anything planned for the next meeting.
>
> Chromatic and Ovid both reminded me that Josh had been hoping to come up
> with some more introductory-level talks (I thought that's what I was
> doing last month?)
>
> ASIDE {
> I'm guessing this is in the pursuit of getting more than 10-20 people to
> show up at the meetings each month?  Maybe a survey is in order.
>
> How many people are on this mailing list?  If you live nowhere near pdx,
> put your hand down :-)
>
> If the answer is "more than 20", what would it take to get you to
> freegeek on a regular basis?
> }
>
> So, assuming that what we want are some more accessible topics and
> further assuming that we have no plans for the April meeting topic,
> might I suggest that the April meeting be used to generate topics and /
> or material / marketing for the May meeting?
>
> --Eric
> --
> But you can never get 3n from n, ever, and if you think you can, please
> email me the stock ticker of your company so I can short it.
> --Joel Spolsky
> ---------------------------------------------------
>     http://scratchcomputing.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From raanders at acm.org  Sun Mar 26 19:47:44 2006
From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:47:44 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: <8C81F5D887BCFD6-15DC-F219@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C81F5D887BCFD6-15DC-F219@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <44276060.7000402@acm.org>

dhmedley at aol.com wrote:
>>If the answer is "more than 20", what would it take to get you to
>>freegeek on a regular basis?
> 
> 
> A better TriMet / Bus method of getting there.   Driving into East 
> Portland
> from Beaverton at 5PM is NOT conducive to learning anything new.
> 
> I AM appreciative of the mp3 podcast recordings that are made -- thanks 
> much for them !
> ASIDE {
>      May I suggest the better open source alternative ( .ogg ) ?
> }

I agree in principal but in practice it isn't that easy.  I have a Palm 
Tungsten T5 and the default player is RealAudio.  As far as I know iPods 
  don't do .oog either.  So most portable PodCasts need .mp3 or .mpu.

> 
> Maybe Free Geek would allow a net meeting format / camera of some sort 
> ?  Would cyberattendence
> count ?

This would be really neat.


Rod
-- 

From xrdawson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 20:12:21 2006
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:12:21 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: <44276060.7000402@acm.org>
References: <8C81F5D887BCFD6-15DC-F219@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>
	<44276060.7000402@acm.org>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30603262012m2bc20c40t42120847d06eb084@mail.gmail.com>

It is somewhat ironic that you would ask for Ogg format and then
suggest NetMeeting.  You do mean GnomeMeeting, right?  :)

And, Roderick stated it well:  I would much prefer Ogg as well but the
realities are that MP3 is the de facto standard, so I have to do MP3,
and adding Ogg would require an extra production step.  You are
welcome to grab the MP3s and transcode to Ogg if you'd like to do
that.  There would be a loss in quality, but no one so far has
attempted to play live Chopin, so it should be OK.

Doing a vodcast is much more complicated but I am working on a good
solution.  Check out http://webcastinabox.com for more on this soon.

Chris

On 3/26/06, Roderick A. Anderson <raanders at acm.org> wrote:
> dhmedley at aol.com wrote:
> >>If the answer is "more than 20", what would it take to get you to
> >>freegeek on a regular basis?
> >
> >
> > A better TriMet / Bus method of getting there.   Driving into East
> > Portland
> > from Beaverton at 5PM is NOT conducive to learning anything new.
> >
> > I AM appreciative of the mp3 podcast recordings that are made -- thanks
> > much for them !
> > ASIDE {
> >      May I suggest the better open source alternative ( .ogg ) ?
> > }
>
> I agree in principal but in practice it isn't that easy.  I have a Palm
> Tungsten T5 and the default player is RealAudio.  As far as I know iPods
>   don't do .oog either.  So most portable PodCasts need .mp3 or .mpu.
>
> >
> > Maybe Free Geek would allow a net meeting format / camera of some sort
> > ?  Would cyberattendence
> > count ?
>
> This would be really neat.
>
>
> Rod
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From gdmilner at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 21:00:39 2006
From: gdmilner at gmail.com (Greg Milner)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:00:39 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting topics
Message-ID: <552920590603262100od76a7ffh63e23ff7c68a751d@mail.gmail.com>

I, for one, would like to see more intro or intermediate level stuff. DBI
would be cool. Win32 topics are always welcome (I'm a SQL Server DBA by
trade).

I live in PDX and could definitely make regular meetings.

Thanks.

--
Greg Milner
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From mikeraz at patch.com  Mon Mar 27 06:28:44 2006
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:28:44 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Why go to meetings? was Re:  April Meeting - topics
In-Reply-To: <20060326210501.GA3557@gate.kl-ic.com>
References: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20060326210501.GA3557@gate.kl-ic.com>
Message-ID: <20060327142844.GD32048@patch.com>

Keith Lofstrom wrote:
> 6) Objects.  I love Randal's intermediate book, but object methods
> remain a follow-the-cookbook abstraction for me.  Teach me to love
> objects, too.

I could use this too.  For the FUT project I'm dependent on the IPTables::IPv4
module.  The code is so OO'd that it's inscrutable.  

Example:  grepping the entire source I don't find a single instance of the
methods I call when using it. No append_entry, commit, insert_entry, flush.
WTF?  I call these methods and yet the names don't appear in the source?

There's some learning to be done.

-- 
      Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
    Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
http://www.patch.com/words/ or http://fut.patch.com/ 
  The fortune cookie says:
Fourteen years in the professor dodge has taught me that one can argue
ingeniously on behalf of any theory, applied to any piece of literature.
This is rarely harmful, because normally no-one reads such essays.
		-- Robert Parker, quoted in "Murder Ink",  ed. D. Wynn


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 08:38:13 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:38:13 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] how to grok OO C/XS code was: Why go to meetings?
In-Reply-To: <20060327142844.GD32048@patch.com>
References: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20060326210501.GA3557@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<20060327142844.GD32048@patch.com>
Message-ID: <200603270838.13946.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Michael Rasmussen
# on Monday 27 March 2006 06:28 am:

>the IPTables::IPv4
>module. ?The code is so OO'd that it's inscrutable. ?

This is an XS module.  Blaming OO isn't fair.

>Example: ?grepping the entire source I don't find a single instance of
> the methods I call when using it. No append_entry, commit,
> insert_entry, flush. WTF? ?I call these methods and yet the names
> don't appear in the source?

Did you look in the C source?  This is even more complicated because it 
probably includes an external library.  Anything that works as a method 
call has to be at least in the XS (unless it uses autoload to wrap the 
lib functions.)

Is this the sort of "introductory / intermediate level" talk we 
need? :-)

--Eric
-- 
Introducing change is like pulling off a bandage: the pain is a memory
almost as soon as you feel it.
--Paul Graham
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From dhmedley at aol.com  Mon Mar 27 08:48:40 2006
From: dhmedley at aol.com (dhmedley@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:48:40 -0500
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting -- .ogg
Message-ID: <8C81FD56F3DD4BA-1D30-4384@FWM-D09.sysops.aol.com>

>It is somewhat ironic that you would ask for Ogg format and then
>suggest NetMeeting. You do mean GnomeMeeting, right? :)

I am officially a technology agnostic -- term comes from my previous 
employer
QLogic -- I don't care and do use both Win32/64 and just about any *nix.
This machine is a WinXP laptop with Virtual PC & VMWare loaded, and 
virtualizing
Slackware, Gentoo, and FC5.   Bring whatever on.

Do we take a collection for the camera ? -- Tell me who the treasurer 
is and I'd
kick in something reasonable.

My preferred attendance would be in one of the local Hillsboro 
Starbucks with a
good gooey solution of (mostly) caffeine ...  Free Geek is just too far.

Dennis H. Medley
Cymberlaen Software
DHMedley at aol.com

From mikeraz at patch.com  Mon Mar 27 08:49:13 2006
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:49:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] how to grok OO C/XS code was: Why go to meetings?
In-Reply-To: <200603270838.13946.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200603251843.17381.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20060326210501.GA3557@gate.kl-ic.com>
	<20060327142844.GD32048@patch.com>
	<200603270838.13946.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <52628.170.135.112.12.1143478153.squirrel@mail.patch.com>


Eric Wilhelm wrote:
>>the IPTables::IPv4
>>module.  The code is so OO'd that it's inscrutable.
>
> This is an XS module.  Blaming OO isn't fair.

You reinforce my point.  Add XS to the list of need to know.

> Did you look in the C source?

I hadn't,

> Is this the sort of "introductory / intermediate level" talk we
> need? :-)

I don't know about "we", but "I" need to get up to speed on the topic.

--
   Michael Rasmussen, Portland, Ore, USA
  Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity
        http://www.patch.com/words/



From xrdawson at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 10:28:58 2006
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:28:58 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting -- .ogg
In-Reply-To: <8C81FD56F3DD4BA-1D30-4384@FWM-D09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C81FD56F3DD4BA-1D30-4384@FWM-D09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30603271028s74316ffewad2636514be93c63@mail.gmail.com>

It does seem to be the case that there is a growing divide between
eastsiders and westsiders.  Since the current leader of the group
lives on the south east side, however, it does seem unfair to move to
meetings permanently to the west side.  Dennis, do you want to take
over the helm of the group after Josh has held rank for the last two
years?  And, I would personally not want to be at a Starbucks; are
there any community spaces that we could use over in Hillsboro?  I
believe that Allison, chromatic and Randal live on the west side, and
they have been kind enough to cross the river, so to speak, countless
times among lots of others I would assume.  It seems fair to propose
that we alternate meeting locations, or perhaps let the speaker
choose, but I'd like to make the following requests if we do:

1.  A "community" space, whether that means locally owned coffee shop,
or community gathering area.

2.  If outside the downtown area, within walking distance from a stop
on the max line, or a single bus line from downtown.  I ride my bike
to PDX.pm now, and would prefer to not have to use my car  (which is
probably unfortunately what all the westsiders have to do now to get
to FreeGeek).

But, I have a feeling finding this space will not be as easy as it
sounds.  PLUG is thinking of relocating, and XP-PDX will probably have
to relocate now that OGI is moving.  FreeGeek is an awesome facility
and great resource in many ways.

I do think it is ultimately fair to let the group leader decide by
fiat, since there is a lot of work to coordinate the meetings.  If
Josh wants to keep them at FreeGeek, I think we should support that
unless someone else wants to take over.

Chris

On 3/27/06, dhmedley at aol.com <dhmedley at aol.com> wrote:
> >It is somewhat ironic that you would ask for Ogg format and then
> >suggest NetMeeting. You do mean GnomeMeeting, right? :)
>
> I am officially a technology agnostic -- term comes from my previous
> employer
> QLogic -- I don't care and do use both Win32/64 and just about any *nix.
> This machine is a WinXP laptop with Virtual PC & VMWare loaded, and
> virtualizing
> Slackware, Gentoo, and FC5.   Bring whatever on.
>
> Do we take a collection for the camera ? -- Tell me who the treasurer
> is and I'd
> kick in something reasonable.
>
> My preferred attendance would be in one of the local Hillsboro
> Starbucks with a
> good gooey solution of (mostly) caffeine ...  Free Geek is just too far.
>
> Dennis H. Medley
> Cymberlaen Software
> DHMedley at aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From mikeraz at patch.com  Mon Mar 27 10:50:46 2006
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:50:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting -- .ogg
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30603271028s74316ffewad2636514be93c63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8C81FD56F3DD4BA-1D30-4384@FWM-D09.sysops.aol.com>
	<659b9ea30603271028s74316ffewad2636514be93c63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51851.170.135.112.12.1143485446.squirrel@mail.patch.com>


Chris Dawson wrote:
> 2.  If outside the downtown area, within walking distance from a stop
> on the max line, or a single bus line from downtown.  I ride my bike
> to PDX.pm now, and would prefer to not have to use my car  (which is
> probably unfortunately what all the westsiders have to do now to get
> to FreeGeek).

FreeGeek is a very easy bike ride from Max or any single bus into downtown.

I'll lobby for a !Starbucks location.  I haven't been in one with chairs that
would remain comfortable for the duration of a meeting and there would be no wall
to project video onto.

-- 
   Michael Rasmussen, Portland, Ore, USA
  Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity
        http://www.patch.com/words/



From masque at pobox.com  Mon Mar 27 10:57:10 2006
From: masque at pobox.com (Paul Blair)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:57:10 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting -- .ogg
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30603271028s74316ffewad2636514be93c63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8C81FD56F3DD4BA-1D30-4384@FWM-D09.sysops.aol.com>
	<659b9ea30603271028s74316ffewad2636514be93c63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AA2BAA28-B140-4857-8DD9-E49E8B0981E3@pobox.com>


On 27 Mar 2006, at 10:28 AM, Chris Dawson wrote:

> I do think it is ultimately fair to let the group leader decide by
> fiat, since there is a lot of work to coordinate the meetings.  If
> Josh wants to keep them at FreeGeek, I think we should support that
> unless someone else wants to take over.

  The very fact that there is a reliable, free, centrally located  
(Sorry, but downtown IS central, even if it is a few blocks from the  
center of the river - we're not talking Beaverton or Gresham here)  
location that we can regularly meet at - and that our leader has  
secured that location - is pretty wonderful.  I vote for not rocking  
the boat.  It's harder than it looks to get that boat to float in the  
first place.

Paul.
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From marvin at rectangular.com  Mon Mar 27 11:12:55 2006
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:12:55 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting -- .ogg
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30603271028s74316ffewad2636514be93c63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8C81FD56F3DD4BA-1D30-4384@FWM-D09.sysops.aol.com>
	<659b9ea30603271028s74316ffewad2636514be93c63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75CEDC9E-43B9-4A25-8417-D8E55B706C2F@rectangular.com>


How about Cosmic Pizza in Eugene?  Sure would be more convenient for me.

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 11:31:58 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:31:58 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] meeting location
In-Reply-To: <AA2BAA28-B140-4857-8DD9-E49E8B0981E3@pobox.com>
References: <8C81FD56F3DD4BA-1D30-4384@FWM-D09.sysops.aol.com>
	<659b9ea30603271028s74316ffewad2636514be93c63@mail.gmail.com>
	<AA2BAA28-B140-4857-8DD9-E49E8B0981E3@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200603271131.58972.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Paul Blair
# on Monday 27 March 2006 10:57 am:

>...a few blocks from the center of the river... 
>I vote for not rocking?the boat. 

I'll second that.  And this comes from ~Beaverton.  I would much rather 
ride the train east than sit in traffic facing west.

If getting to freegeek once a month is too much trouble for a free talk, 
I'm sure many of the speakers would be willing to do on-site training 
in Hillsboro for a fee.

That said, I'm all for the phoning-it-in and virtual attendance.  Maybe 
then even the long-distance lurkers would be able to attend.

--Eric
-- 
"Insert random misquote here"
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Mon Mar 27 15:40:29 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:40:29 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, March 27
Message-ID: <20060327234029.GB27437@joshheumann.com>

The books:
----------------------------------------------------------------
Book News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Ajax Hacks
-Ableton Live 5 Tips and Tricks
-The Art of SQL
-Best of Ruby Quiz
-Don't Get Burned on eBay
-The eBay Price Guide
-Fixing Windows XP Annoyances
-Flash 8: Projects for Learning Animation and Interactivity
-Flash 8: The Missing Manual
-Google: The Missing Manual, Second Edition
-Head Rush Ajax
-How to Cheat at Managing Microsoft Operations Manager 2005
-Intermediate Perl
-iPhoto 6: The Missing Manual
-iPod & iTunes: The Missing Manual
-ISS X-Force: Next Generation Threat Analysis and Prevention 
-The JavaScript Anthology
-Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete
-Mind Performance Hacks
-Music Projects with Propellerhead Reason
-MySQL Stored Procedure Programming
-Photoshop CS2 RAW
-Practical VoIP Security
-Practices of an Agile Developer
-UML 2.0 Pocket Reference
-Visual Basic 2005 Express
-Visual C# 2005 Black Book
-Window Seat
-Write Great Code, Volume 2
-XAML in a Nutshell

----- Forwarded message from Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com> -----

From: Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com>

================================================================
O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders
March 27, 2006
================================================================
-UG Discount Gets Better--Buy Two or More Books get 35% Off
-Going to LinuxWorld Boston?
-Do You Have Something Newsworthy to Share?
-Put Up an O'Reilly Where 2.0 Banner, Get a Free Book
-Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book
-Promotional Material Available

----------------------------------------------------------------
Book Info
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Review Books are Available 
Copies of our books are available for your members to review--
send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on 
your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date. 
Allow at least four weeks for shipping. 


***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews
Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review.
For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to:
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***Group Purchases with Better Discounts are Available
Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in 
touch with our sales department.

----------------------------------------------------------------
General News or Inquiries
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User Group members get 30% off single book orders, and 35% off on 
orders of two or more books. And orders over $29.95 also qualify 
for free shipping in the US. This discount is available on O'Reilly, 
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***Going to LinuxWorld Boston?
Send me an email and let me know.


***Do You Have Something Newsworthy to Share?
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***Put Up an O'Reilly Where 2.0 Banner, Get a Free Book
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***Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner, Get a Free Book
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***Promotional Material Available:
The following items are available for your next meeting. (Let me know
the item and the amount you'd like):

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================================================================
O'Reilly News for User Group Members
March 27, 2006
================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------
Book News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Ajax Hacks
-Ableton Live 5 Tips and Tricks
-The Art of SQL
-Best of Ruby Quiz
-Don't Get Burned on eBay
-The eBay Price Guide
-Fixing Windows XP Annoyances
-Flash 8: Projects for Learning Animation and Interactivity
-Flash 8: The Missing Manual
-Google: The Missing Manual, Second Edition
-Head Rush Ajax
-How to Cheat at Managing Microsoft Operations Manager 2005
-Intermediate Perl
-iPhoto 6: The Missing Manual
-iPod & iTunes: The Missing Manual
-ISS X-Force: Next Generation Threat Analysis and Prevention 
-The JavaScript Anthology
-Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete
-Mind Performance Hacks
-Music Projects with Propellerhead Reason
-MySQL Stored Procedure Programming
-Photoshop CS2 RAW
-Practical VoIP Security
-Practices of an Agile Developer
-UML 2.0 Pocket Reference
-Visual Basic 2005 Express
-Visual C# 2005 Black Book
-Window Seat
-Write Great Code, Volume 2
-XAML in a Nutshell
----------------------------------------------------------------
Upcoming Events
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Sebastian Bergmann("PHPUnit Pocket Guide"), PHP Usergroup Wurzburg,
 Wurzburg, Bayern--Mar 30
-Dan Gillmor ("We the Media"), Commonwealth Club, San Jose, CA--Mar 30
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 Photography"), Pacifica, CA--Apr 1
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 San Francisco, CA--April 12
----------------------------------------------------------------
Conference News
----------------------------------------------------------------
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----------------------------------------------------------------
News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Tim O'Reilly Quizzes Bill Gates at MIX06
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-What Corporate Projects Should Learn from Open Source
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-Google Page Creator: When It Gets Too Hard
-Zero Configuration Networking: Using the Java APIs, Part 1
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-The Internet of Things
-The Future of Telephony, Going Digital, and Open Formats
-Managing Digital Images: Applying Ratings and Keywords
-Inside Animusic's Astonishing Computer Music Videos
-Screencast: Photoshop Starburst Effect
-Maker Faire, San Mateo Fairgrounds, San Mateo, CA--April 22-23
================================================
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For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
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Don't forget, you can receive 30% off a single title or 35% off two or
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***Ajax Hacks
Publisher: O'Reilly
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Want to build next-generation web applications today? This book can show
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covers the finer points of Asynchronous JavaScript and XML, or Ajax as
it's known. Learn leading-edge web development tasks like how to display
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<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ajaxhks/>


***Ableton Live 5 Tips and Tricks
Publisher: PC Publishing
ISBN: 1870775090
This book enables you to create your ideal Live 5 template; get the most
from Live's MIDI features; find audio editing workrounds within Live;
prepare a Live set for performance; use Live with other music software;
and includes interviews with high-profile Live users.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1870775090/>


***The Art of SQL
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ISBN: 0596008945
Enterprises throughout the world are confronted with exploding volumes
of data, and many IT departments are looking for quick solutions. This
insightful book demonstrates that since SQL code may run for 5 to 10
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start. Expert Stephane Faroult offers SQL best practices and relational
theory that force you to focus on strategy rather than specifics.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/artofsql/>


***Best of Ruby Quiz
Publisher: Pragmatic Bookshelf
ISBN: 0976694077
Sharpen your Ruby programming skills with twenty-five challenging
problems from Ruby Quiz. Whether you have faithfully followed the weekly
online Ruby Quiz challenges or are just looking for some practical tests
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within these pages you can do both quickly and easily.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0976694077/>


***Don't Get Burned on eBay
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596101783
Don't Get Burned on eBay offers relevant lessons based on real-life
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<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/dgbebay/>


***The eBay Price Guide
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A one-stop shop for pricing information and tips for successful buying
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book. A must-have for the serious eBayer.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1593270550/>


***Fixing Windows XP Annoyances
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596100531
Inspired by author David Karp's "Windows XP Annoyances for Geeks," this
all-new tome pulls together tips, tricks, insider workarounds, and fixes
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only increase your productivity, but lower your blood pressure. 
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/windowsxpannoy/>


***Flash 8: Projects for Learning Animation and Interactivity
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ISBN: 0596102232
This book teaches Flash design rather than simply Flash itself. With a
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<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/flashprojects/>


***Flash 8: The Missing Manual
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Macromedia's Flash 8 is the world's premier program for adding animation
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manual. This hands-on guide to today's hottest web design tool is aimed
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<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/flash8tmm/>


***Google: The Missing Manual, Second Edition
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ISBN: 0596100191
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<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/googletmm2/>


***Head Rush Ajax
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596102259
"Head Rush Ajax" takes the reader beyond basic web development with
DHTML and JavaScript and explains how asynchronous data requests and
more powerful event models can be used in the Ajax methodology
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/headra/>


***How to Cheat at Managing Microsoft Operations Manager 2005
Publisher: Syngress
ISBN: 1597492515
Microsoft Operations Manager (MOM) is a network monitoring tool that
provides enterprise-class event and performance management for Windows
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discover problems before system administrators would ever find them,
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long before these problems bother users.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597492515/>


***Intermediate Perl
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596102062
Perl programmers need a clear roadmap for improving their skills.
"Intermediate Perl" teaches a working knowledge of Perl's objects,
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structures, writing and using modules, package implementation, and using
CPAN.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/intermediateperl/>


***iPhoto 6: The Missing Manual
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 059652725X
Along with its host of new features, iPhoto 6 can handle as many as
250,000 images. It's incredible, and Apple makes it sound so easy. But
you can still get lost, especially if you're new to iPhoto. Not to
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undocumented tips & tricks for taking advantage of the new version and
every feature packed into it.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/iphotomm/>


***iPod & iTunes: The Missing Manual
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 059652675X
An iPod is many things to many people, but it can be much more than most
people realize. That's where this new edition comes in. Like the iPod
itself, this book is a long-running bestseller with a wealth of useful
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iTunes 6, ways to use an iPod as an external drive or personal
organizer, and much more.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ipodtmm4/>


***ISS X-Force: Next Generation Threat Analysis and Prevention 
Publisher: Syngress
ISBN: 1597490563
Over the last seven years, Internet Security Systems (ISS) elite X-Force
has discovered more high-risk vulnerabilities than all other research
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X-Force team as they analyze potential vulnerabilities and security
solutions for cutting edge technologies and emerging attack
methodologies.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597490563/>


***The JavaScript Anthology
Publisher:SitePoint
ISBN: 0975240269
The "JavaScript Anthology: 101 Essential Tips, Tricks, and Hacks" is a
compilation of customizable solutions to the most common JavaScript
questions and problems, including solutions using AJAX. All the code in
the book is thoroughly tested, best practice, and standards-compliant to
ensure that will work across different browsers and platforms.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0975240269/>


***Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete
Publisher: Paraglyph
ISBN: 1933097132
Modding is the new craze that has taken the gaming world by storm. And
Half-Life 2 provides the premier game engine that modders all around the
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***Secure Your Linux Server
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***Autofilled PHP Forms
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***What Corporate Projects Should Learn from Open Source
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<http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2006/02/27/what-corp-projects-learn-from-open-source.html>

---------------------
Mac
---------------------
***Digital Bookmark Mods
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***Getting Started with Quartz Composer
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<http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/03/23/quartz-composer.html>

---------------------
Windows/.NET
---------------------
***Using the MultiView and Wizard Controls in ASP.NET 2.0
Need to collect data from Web pages? ASP.NET 2.0 makes it easy, with the
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***Directions in Windows Scripting
Administering Windows platforms using scripts can be a big productivity
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<http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2006/03/14/directions-in-windows-scripting.html>

---------------------
Web
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***Profiting Without Frequently Updated Content
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***Google Page Creator: When It Gets Too Hard
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---------------------
Java
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***Zero Configuration Networking: Using the Java APIs, Part 1
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<http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/excerpt/bonjour_ch08/index.html>


***What Is Java
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<http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2006/03/08/what-is-java.html>

---------------------
Podcasts
---------------------
***The Internet of Things
This week, Bruce Sterling's Emerging Technology keynote on "The Internet
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<http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2006/03/20/distributing-the-future.html>


***The Future of Telephony, Going Digital, and Open Formats
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<http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2006/03/13/distributing-the-future.html>

---------------------
Digital Media
---------------------
***Managing Digital Images: Applying Ratings and Keywords
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<http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/02/24/keywords-and-metadata.html>


***Inside Animusic's Astonishing Computer Music Videos
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<http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/03/22/animusic-computer-music-videos.html>


***Screencast: Photoshop Starburst Effect
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<http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2006/02/24/screencast-photoshop-starburst-effect/>

---------------------
MAKE
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***Maker Faire, San Mateo Fairgrounds, San Mateo, CA--April 22-23
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----- End forwarded message -----

From dhmedley at aol.com  Mon Mar 27 20:05:50 2006
From: dhmedley at aol.com (dhmedley@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:05:50 -0500
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting -- .ogg
Message-ID: <8C8203408D28C88-1524-F0A9@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com>

> Dennis, do you want to take over the helm of the group after Josh has 
held rank for the last two
> years ?

What was that Robert Heinlein line ?  "I am only an egg" -- this group 
is known for expertise, and I
have no reputation for that ( yet ).  I would respectfully decline the 
nomination, if it was ever offered.

> 2.  If outside the downtown area, within walking distance from a stop
> on the max line, or a single bus line from downtown.  I ride my bike
> to PDX.pm now, and would prefer to not have to use my car  (which is
> probably unfortunately what all the westsiders have to do now to get
> to FreeGeek).

> FreeGeek is a very easy bike ride from Max or any single bus into 
downtown.

This may have been closer to my point -- I ride Max, but do not ride a 
bike.  I don't like using
the car for just the meeting.  My horse isn't welcome on the light 
rail, either.

> That said, I'm all for the phoning-it-in and virtual attendance.  
Maybe
> then even the long-distance lurkers would be able to attend.

Which is what I have been doing since the mp3s have been posted.  Feel 
the gratitude here for that ...

As for a meeting place on the Westside ; Intel may be very easy to 
convince to provide space.  There
are at least 2 facilities with stops on Max ( see criteria 2 quoted 
above ).

Dennis H. Medley
Cymberlaen Software





From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Mar 27 20:53:02 2006
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:53:02 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting -- .ogg
In-Reply-To: <8C8203408D28C88-1524-F0A9@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C8203408D28C88-1524-F0A9@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20060328045302.GB31151@patch.com>

dhmedley at aol.com wrote:
> 
> This may have been closer to my point -- I ride Max, but do not ride a 
> bike.  I don't like using
> the car for just the meeting.  My horse isn't welcome on the light 
> rail, either.

For what it's worth, the 14 Hawthorne is a frequent service bus - every 15
minutes - and runs from downtown to 9th and Hawthorne in just five minutes or
so.  From the bus stop it's a three block walk to Free Geek.

-- 
      Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
    Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
http://www.patch.com/words/ or http://fut.patch.com/ 
  The fortune cookie says:
Debian is like Suse with yast turned off, just better. :)
	-- Goswin Brederlow


From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Mon Mar 27 21:48:11 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:48:11 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting all-in-one
In-Reply-To: <75CEDC9E-43B9-4A25-8417-D8E55B706C2F@rectangular.com>
References: <8C81FD56F3DD4BA-1D30-4384@FWM-D09.sysops.aol.com>
	<659b9ea30603271028s74316ffewad2636514be93c63@mail.gmail.com>
	<75CEDC9E-43B9-4A25-8417-D8E55B706C2F@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <20060328054811.GA30822@joshheumann.com>

I've been following this conversation from afar, partly because I like
seeing people participate and partly because I try to check my email as
little as possible on the weekends.  As the so-called leader of this
rag-tag bunch of misfits, I should probably chime in, so here goes:

<quote who='dhmedley at aol.com' when='Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 11:48:40AM -0500'>
> My preferred attendance would be in one of the local Hillsboro
> Starbucks with a
> good gooey solution of (mostly) caffeine ...  Free Geek is just too far.

<quote who='dhmedley at aol.com' when='Sun, Mar 26, 2006 at 09:30:22PM -0500'>
> A better TriMet / Bus method of getting there.   Driving into East Portland
> from Beaverton at 5PM is NOT conducive to learning anything new.

As for location, I know that there a lot of people on the west side, and
if we're turning off a large number of people due to location, we might
need to rethink the current location.

<quote who='Paul Blair' when='Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 10:57:10AM -0800'>
> I vote for not rocking
> the boat.  It's harder than it looks to get that boat to float in the
> first place.

Paul is quite right.  My first job as leader was to find a reliable
place for us to meet.  It took me quite a while to find space that
fit our requirements.

Our requirements are:

- consistency
- a projector
- comfy chairs (with cushy pillows when possible)
- central location
- free (no cost to reserve a space)
- beer (or similar diversions) close by

That last one isn't quite a requirement, but is really nice to have.

The projector is something that I've been providing, but eventually the
bulb is going to burn out and I'm considering not replacing it, as I don't
use the projector that often.

Above all, though, is consistency.  I think that we've been able to
build a nice pattern in having the meetings at the same place (almost
every time) for about two years.  If we find a new place, it would be
good if it were one that we could be assured would be ours every month.

Of course, just as important to attendance as location is content:

<quote who='Keith Lofstrom' when='Sun, Mar 26, 2006 at 01:05:02PM -0800'>
> Here's some things I would like to see:
>
> 1) Take apart a small piece of well written code
> 2) Repair a small piece of not-so-well written code
> 3) Code clinic
> 4) Explain the architecture of a large piece of well written code
> 5) Design techniques for usability
> 6) Objects

<quote who='Greg Milner' when='Sun, Mar 26, 2006 at 09:00:39PM -0800'>
> I, for one, would like to see more intro or intermediate level stuff. DBI
> would be cool. Win32 topics are always welcome (I'm a SQL Server DBA by
> trade).

Here, here.  What we need is people who want to lead discussions (not
necessarily just talk) about these topics.

<quote who='dhmedley at aol.com' when='Sun, Mar 26, 2006 at 09:30:22PM -0500'>
> Maybe Free Geek would allow a net meeting format / camera of some sort
> ?  Would cyberattendence count ?

That's an excellent question.  I'll talk to Free Geek about it.

<quote who='dhmedley at aol.com' when='Sun, Mar 26, 2006 at 09:30:22PM -0500'>
> I AM appreciative of the mp3 podcast recordings that are made -- thanks
> much for them !

Definitely.  A big thanks to Chris for recording our meetings.  That kicks ass.

<quote who='Eric Wilhelm' when='Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 06:43:17PM -0800'>
> So, assuming that what we want are some more accessible topics and
> further assuming that we have no plans for the April meeting topic,
> might I suggest that the April meeting be used to generate topics and /
> or material / marketing for the May meeting?

I think this is an excellent topic for the April meeting.  However, as that's
the first night of Passover, I'll be busy not eating bread that night.
Would someone else be so kind as to volunteer to lead a discussion that
night, and designate someone to record ideas?  I will reserve the
meeting room at the Lucky Lab if people think that would be a good
venue.

<quote who='Chris Dawson' when='Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 10:28:58AM -0800'>
> Dennis, do you want to take
> over the helm of the group after Josh has held rank for the last two
> years?

Chris brings up another good point.  I've been leading this group for a
couple of years, and it's probably time I should step down.  I've had a
good time at pdx.pm, but like a politician resigning from the Bush White
House, I need to spend more time with my family.  Er, girlfriend and cat.

Josh

From randall at sonofhans.net  Mon Mar 27 21:54:47 2006
From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:54:47 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] the king is dead
In-Reply-To: <20060328054811.GA30822@joshheumann.com>
References: <8C81FD56F3DD4BA-1D30-4384@FWM-D09.sysops.aol.com>
	<659b9ea30603271028s74316ffewad2636514be93c63@mail.gmail.com>
	<75CEDC9E-43B9-4A25-8417-D8E55B706C2F@rectangular.com>
	<20060328054811.GA30822@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <38AE0C51-98A9-443C-B7E0-061948752C46@sonofhans.net>

On Mar 27, 2006, at 9:48 PM, Josh Heumann wrote:

> Chris brings up another good point.  I've been leading this group  
> for a
> couple of years, and it's probably time I should step down.  I've  
> had a
> good time at pdx.pm, but like a politician resigning from the Bush  
> White
> House, I need to spend more time with my family.  Er, girlfriend  
> and cat.

mr heumann, let me be the first to say that you've done a fine job  
these last two years.  i know we won't find anyone as hairy to  
replace you :)  thanks josh, i think you've made us a better group.

r


From tex at off.org  Tue Mar 28 00:30:01 2006
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:30:01 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] April Meeting -- .ogg
In-Reply-To: <8C8203408D28C88-1524-F0A9@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C8203408D28C88-1524-F0A9@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20060328083001.GN11640@gblx.net>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 11:05:50PM -0500, dhmedley at aol.com wrote:
> > Dennis, do you want to take over the helm of the group after Josh has 
> held rank for the last two
> > years ?
> 
> What was that Robert Heinlein line ?  "I am only an egg" -- this group 
> is known for expertise, and I
> have no reputation for that ( yet ).  I would respectfully decline the 
> nomination, if it was ever offered.
> 

	I might have missed the email where Josh said he had had enough
of dealing with the miscreants - but please don't be dissuaded by being
an "egg". The skillset required to keep the group organized has little
to do with being a perl guru.
	In fact, last time the position was open none of the real
smartypantses (you know who you are) excepting Josh volunteered. If the idea of
running a group like this sounds like fun and you find the subject matter
intriguing, go for it! If you're not sure how much of a pain in the ass
we are, ask Josh.
	Come to think of it, it might be nice to have a brain dump from
the current and past benevolent leaders regarding the responsibilities
and rewards (ha ha) of running the group on the wiki or somesuch.

	Austin

From dpool at hevanet.com  Tue Mar 28 07:44:48 2006
From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:44:48 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Governor to speak on Open Technology
Message-ID: <1143560688.7997.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Next month Governor Kulongoski and the OSDL's Stuart Cohen will be
speaking at Innotech about how the State can support the open technology
industry. You can save the $35 fee but still put in a show of support by
attending if you follow through with the directions in the recent N4N
story:

http://www.news4neighbors.net/article.pl?sid=06/03/28/000257

Sign up now to let your State know you support the Open Technology
initiatives.

Thanks,

David


From kellert at ohsu.edu  Tue Mar 28 09:08:56 2006
From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Tom Keller)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:08:56 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Future Meeting Site discussion
Message-ID: <s428fd31.090@ohsu.edu>

Greetings,
A few years ago we held a couple of meetings at OHSU. I can definitely find as a room with wireless internet at OHSU. My department has the camara for simulcasting too. I'd have to check on its availablility for us, but I think I could arrange that as well.

It's not the most convenient location, but it's an intermediate site and their is pretty good bus service. There's a pizza place up there now and I think they serve beer. I can check if there's any interest in meeting on "pill hill".

Tom Keller
PS. I'm on vacation this week, so I can't follow up on this till next week.

>>> "Chris Dawson" <xrdawson at gmail.com> 03/27/06 10:28 AM >>>
It does seem to be the case that there is a growing divide between
eastsiders and westsiders.  Since the current leader of the group
lives on the south east side, however, it does seem unfair to move to
meetings permanently to the west side.  Dennis, do you want to take
over the helm of the group after Josh has held rank for the last two
years?  And, I would personally not want to be at a Starbucks; are
there any community spaces that we could use over in Hillsboro?  I
believe that Allison, chromatic and Randal live on the west side, and
they have been kind enough to cross the river, so to speak, countless
times among lots of others I would assume.  It seems fair to propose
that we alternate meeting locations, or perhaps let the speaker
choose, but I'd like to make the following requests if we do:

1.  A "community" space, whether that means locally owned coffee shop,
or community gathering area.

2.  If outside the downtown area, within walking distance from a stop
on the max line, or a single bus line from downtown.  I ride my bike
to PDX.pm now, and would prefer to not have to use my car  (which is
probably unfortunately what all the westsiders have to do now to get
to FreeGeek).

But, I have a feeling finding this space will not be as easy as it
sounds.  PLUG is thinking of relocating, and XP-PDX will probably have
to relocate now that OGI is moving.  FreeGeek is an awesome facility
and great resource in many ways.

I do think it is ultimately fair to let the group leader decide by
fiat, since there is a lot of work to coordinate the meetings.  If
Josh wants to keep them at FreeGeek, I think we should support that
unless someone else wants to take over.

Chris

On 3/27/06, dhmedley at aol.com <dhmedley at aol.com> wrote:
> >It is somewhat ironic that you would ask for Ogg format and then
> >suggest NetMeeting. You do mean GnomeMeeting, right? :)
>
> I am officially a technology agnostic -- term comes from my previous
> employer
> QLogic -- I don't care and do use both Win32/64 and just about any *nix.
> This machine is a WinXP laptop with Virtual PC & VMWare loaded, and
> virtualizing
> Slackware, Gentoo, and FC5.   Bring whatever on.
>
> Do we take a collection for the camera ? -- Tell me who the treasurer
> is and I'd
> kick in something reasonable.
>
> My preferred attendance would be in one of the local Hillsboro
> Starbucks with a
> good gooey solution of (mostly) caffeine ...  Free Geek is just too far.
>
> Dennis H. Medley
> Cymberlaen Software
> DHMedley at aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
_______________________________________________
Pdx-pm-list mailing list
Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list




From brendan at hollyking.org  Tue Mar 28 09:28:23 2006
From: brendan at hollyking.org (Brendan Leber)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:28:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Resume Formats
Message-ID: <46257.134.134.136.4.1143566903.squirrel@hollyking.org>

Greetings!

I've come to realize that my current resume is not helping me to find a
job.  I'm getting lots of responses but not for the kind of jobs I would
like.  So I'm rewriting it.  I've finished updating the content but I
would like to update format.  Does anyone have a format/layout they
wouldn't mind pointing out or sharing?  I would like to find a format that
works well in HTML and Word so I can post my resume on my web site and
email it to HR people.

Thanks!
B


From shlomif at iglu.org.il  Tue Mar 28 10:42:30 2006
From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:42:30 +0200
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Resume Formats
In-Reply-To: <46257.134.134.136.4.1143566903.squirrel@hollyking.org>
References: <46257.134.134.136.4.1143566903.squirrel@hollyking.org>
Message-ID: <200603282042.31282.shlomif@iglu.org.il>

On Tuesday 28 March 2006 19:28, Brendan Leber wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> I've come to realize that my current resume is not helping me to find a
> job.  I'm getting lots of responses but not for the kind of jobs I would
> like.  So I'm rewriting it.  I've finished updating the content but I
> would like to update format.  Does anyone have a format/layout they
> wouldn't mind pointing out or sharing?  I would like to find a format that
> works well in HTML and Word so I can post my resume on my web site and
> email it to HR people.
>

I suggest you use XHTML, and stick to a basic valid subset of it. HTML can be 
placed on the web (naturally) and can also be imported into MS Word and other 
word processors. It's the universal standard.

Note that some word processors may bork on the HTML if it has an XML 
declaration (e.g: <?xml version='1.0' ?>). So just remove it and it will be 
imported fine.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish (whose resum?s are in HTML)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      shlomif at iglu.org.il
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.

From keithl at kl-ic.com  Tue Mar 28 11:56:08 2006
From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:56:08 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Resume Formats
In-Reply-To: <46257.134.134.136.4.1143566903.squirrel@hollyking.org>
References: <46257.134.134.136.4.1143566903.squirrel@hollyking.org>
Message-ID: <20060328195608.GB30542@gate.kl-ic.com>

On Tue, Mar 28, 2006 at 09:28:23AM -0800, Brendan Leber wrote:
> 
> I've come to realize that my current resume is not helping me to find a
> job.  I'm getting lots of responses but not for the kind of jobs I would
> like.  So I'm rewriting it.  I've finished updating the content but I

Here is my resume online:  http://www.kl-ic.com/resume_khl.html
It is one page, with search phrases at the top, etc., designed to
be skimmed quickly by a busy manager (the best kind).  They will
probably make their decision to read more or give up on you in the
first 15 seconds.  More info?  That is what hyperlinks are for. 

If I am targeting a specific consulting job, I take the time to
write a specific version of the resume.  For the most part, I
try to put myself in the manager's mind - what do they want? -
and suppress my own ego for a while.  This never works perfectly,
but well enough that I can often sense their needs.

Some points about resumes and job-hunting in general.  Be true
to yourself and to your future employer.   Write your resume
and present yourself not to get A job, but to get YOUR job. 
And that means a frank assessment of your goals and your value
to yourself and to others.  If you have not developed your value,
if you have glaring personality or skill defects, work on those
and find something temporary that does not prevent your growth. 
Start with the assumption that there is a great job out there
for you, where you will love the people and be loved in return. 
You owe it to these wonderful people to find them, and be
found, and develop into the person your future team needs. 

You will have a very hard time finding them, there are 6 billion
people on this planet and you will not be working with 5.999
billion of them.  Chances are, if you are copasetic with them,
your "incompetence" at finding a job matches their "incompetence"
at finding you, so you will have to put in some extra effort.
Be creative searching for them - look at academic papers ("where
is THAT interesting person?"), products, etc., not just job
postings.  Talk to strangers.  Spread the network.  Listen to
your heart.

It shouldn't need to be said, but develop your reputation as an open
source contributor who finishes useful projects.  Software guys have
it easier than chip guys in this regard;  there are lots of small
contributions to make, that can be rolled out into the world for
under a thousand dollars cash outlay (chip protos cost tens of
thousands to tens of millions!).  Open source projects can be great
resume bullet points, and open source code that does something useful
makes a wonderful portfolio.

And populate http://www.hollyking.com !  A blank website does not
demonstrate competence.  A lot of my Perl friends complain about 
the demand for Java and the lack of demand for Perl.  If managers
are hiring for Java, some of that may be because Java is what they
see when they look at websites or applications they want to emulate.
If your Perl-driven website does something nifty, then it will
attract the attention of managers that want that kind of function,
and want the kind of person that can deliver it.

And if you are willing to do Java, or C sharp, or .NET/mono, put
some of that on the website, too.  Show what you are capable of.
"Years of experience" is second to "working code", at least for
the people you want to work with.

I am not saying I have mastered all the techniques above - far from
it.  But I am enough of an empiricist to see what works, and I
have been watching for decades.  It is the bitter, adversarial,
conspiracy-blinded grouches, the ones that blame their lack of
accomplishment on circumstances or the evil of others, that don't
get jobs (which includes me on bad days).  The team-compatable
producers, do.  While there are counterexamples out there, they
are relatively few. 

Good luck!

Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom          keithl at keithl.com         Voice (503)-520-1993
KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon"
Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs

From andy at petdance.com  Tue Mar 28 12:39:31 2006
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:39:31 -0600
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Resume Formats
In-Reply-To: <20060328195608.GB30542@gate.kl-ic.com>
References: <46257.134.134.136.4.1143566903.squirrel@hollyking.org>
	<20060328195608.GB30542@gate.kl-ic.com>
Message-ID: <4F9552B3-F52C-48BE-8D52-CE7ABDA18C3B@petdance.com>

The number one thing is that you're not going to have a single  
resume.  You're going to send a different resume for each job you  
apply for, tailored to that specific job.

> And if you are willing to do Java, or C sharp, or .NET/mono, put
> some of that on the website, too.  Show what you are capable of.
> "Years of experience" is second to "working code", at least for
> the people you want to work with.

Specifics trump vagueness in all cases on a resume.

xoa

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance




From ptkwt at aracnet.com  Tue Mar 28 15:01:11 2006
From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:01:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Resume Formats
In-Reply-To: <46257.134.134.136.4.1143566903.squirrel@hollyking.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603281452280.29350-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>



On Tue, 28 Mar 2006, Brendan Leber wrote:

> Greetings!
> 
> I've come to realize that my current resume is not helping me to find a
> job.  I'm getting lots of responses but not for the kind of jobs I would
> like.  So I'm rewriting it.  I've finished updating the content but I
> would like to update format.  Does anyone have a format/layout they
> wouldn't mind pointing out or sharing?  I would like to find a format that
> works well in HTML and Word so I can post my resume on my web site and
> email it to HR people.

I was just looking into this recently as well.  There is an 
XML Resume Format and XMLResumeLibrary that looks interesting:
http://xmlresume.sourceforge.net/

I'm not sure about the Word .doc format, though.  It does seem to be able 
to transform to RTF which should be readable by Word.

Also, there's a Ruby app, xmlresume2x which supposedly can translate XML 
Resume Format to a number of other formats including LaTeX:
http://rubyforge.org/projects/xmlresume2x/
(I have not tried it yet)

The nice thing about these tools is that you could have your 
'everything I've ever done' resume in the XML Resume format and then you 
could produce different targetted resumes from it programatically.


Phil



From akf at alum.mit.edu  Wed Mar 29 00:22:38 2006
From: akf at alum.mit.edu (Amy Farrell)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:22:38 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Resume Formats
In-Reply-To: <46257.134.134.136.4.1143566903.squirrel@hollyking.org>
References: <46257.134.134.136.4.1143566903.squirrel@hollyking.org>
Message-ID: <442A43CE.8060307@alum.mit.edu>

Brendan Leber wrote:
> [...] I've finished updating the content but I
> would like to update format.  Does anyone have a format/layout they
> wouldn't mind pointing out or sharing?  I would like to find a format that
> works well in HTML and Word so I can post my resume on my web site and
> email it to HR people.
>   
Here's mine: http://www.aracnet.com/~akf/resume.html

I like the layout, although I'm not enthused about the fact that I wrote
it in Microsoft Word and exported the HTML. The PDF/print version is the
"original," and the HTML is good enough. I will probably change the font
in the HTML version next time I tweak it, as this one isn't very good
for screen display.

I've only been looking for a couple of weeks, and have sent this out
sparingly, so I can't say how well this resume is doing its job. It's
brought in one appropriate nibble so far, not counting people who
already know me.

- Amy


From andy at petdance.com  Wed Mar 29 07:47:41 2006
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:47:41 -0600
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OT: Resume Formats
In-Reply-To: <442A43CE.8060307@alum.mit.edu>
References: <46257.134.134.136.4.1143566903.squirrel@hollyking.org>
	<442A43CE.8060307@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <0ED58093-EA6B-4C8E-9A7C-6633BC867F18@petdance.com>


On Mar 29, 2006, at 2:22 AM, Amy Farrell wrote:

> I like the layout, although I'm not enthused about the fact that I  
> wrote
> it in Microsoft Word and exported the HTML. The PDF/print version  
> is the
> "original," and the HTML is good enough. I will probably change the  
> font
> in the HTML version next time I tweak it, as this one isn't very good
> for screen display.

There's nothing wrong with maintaining two different formats of resume.

I know that as programmers we try to be as lazy as possible, but  
consider that I, as a hiring manager, consider your resume to be an  
example of what work you are capable of as a programmer.  I almost  
always look at the raw HTML of the resumes I'm sent.  If it's crap  
HTML, then that indicates something to me about the candidate.

xoa

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance



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From lemming at quirkyqatz.com  Wed Mar 29 11:56:30 2006
From: lemming at quirkyqatz.com (Mark Morgan)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:56:30 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] meeting location
In-Reply-To: <200603271131.58972.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <8C81FD56F3DD4BA-1D30-4384@FWM-D09.sysops.aol.com>
	<659b9ea30603271028s74316ffewad2636514be93c63@mail.gmail.com>
	<AA2BAA28-B140-4857-8DD9-E49E8B0981E3@pobox.com>
	<200603271131.58972.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <44413.63.226.124.179.1143662190.squirrel@webmail6.pair.com>

Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> That said, I'm all for the phoning-it-in and virtual attendance.  Maybe
> then even the long-distance lurkers would be able to attend.

That sounds nice since it's a 16 hour drive...

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Wed Mar 29 23:54:17 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:54:17 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] YAPC::Europe::2006 - The Dates
Message-ID: <20060330075416.GE14198@joshheumann.com>

----- Forwarded message from Barbie <barbie at missbarbell.co.uk> -----

=== Announcement #2 ===

Hello, and welcome to our long anticipated second official bulletin
regarding the 2006 YAPC::Europe Perl Conference from the Birmingham 2006
Organisers. 

When signing up to host a YAPC::Europe we never expected, despite the
words of warnings from previous organisers (see Cog's final speech in
Braga), just how traumatic it could be. 

It has been unfortunate that negotiations with venues didn't go as
planned and have taken considerably longer than we had anticipated.
However, we have found a venue, so we hope this crazy mule of a
conference is finally coming under control, so please be prepared for a
plethora of announcements and updates in the coming months. It's time to
uncage the beast...

==== The Dates ====

After many many requests, we can now reveal the official dates for the
conference. The conference will be held from ...

    Wednesday 30th August to Friday 1st September 2006.

In the UK this follows the bank holiday weekend, and is the calm before
the storm when all the students return during September.

We are planning meetup events in a local pub in the evening for Tuesday
29th August and Saturday 2nd September, to extend the conference
experience, for anyone arriving early and/or leaving later. Details of
these will be announced nearer the time.

==== About Birmingham ====

For those wondering where Birmingham is, and why they should come and
visit us, please read on.

Birmingham is the UK's second city, located in the heart of England.
Technically speaking the village of Meriden is the centre of England,
which is located 10 miles south of Birmingham city centre, but
Birmingham has always been the commercial centre.

Birmingham grew from humble beginnings of a group of small villages,
through the industrial focal point it became in the 1800s, to the
commercial city it is today. As a result of this Birmingham has become a
hub for road, rail and canal networks. 

There is a rich history both in Birmingham and in the West Midlands,
with towns and cities in the surrounding area providing many attractions
to keep visitors entertained. Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa,
Warwick and Ironbridge are all within easy reach of Birmingham, should
you wish to extend your stay.

==== Contact ====

Should you wish to contact us, there is now an email address available
for direct contact, where you can mail us with your questions and
suggestions. The address is: 

organisers at birmingham2006.com

There is also the regular YAPC::Europe conference mailing list, open to
all. See  http://lists.yapceurope.org/mailman/listinfo/conferences. for
more details.

That's all for this release. Look out for more news and announcements
coming soon.

Thanks, 
The Birmingham 2006 Organisers


----- End forwarded message -----


From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Thu Mar 30 12:05:12 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:05:12 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] [jobs] IMDb in Seattle
Message-ID: <20060330200511.GD18485@joshheumann.com>


----- Forwarded message from spug-list-request at pm.org -----

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:06:42 -0800 (PST)
From: SPUG Jobs <jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org>
Subject: SPUG: IMDb is looking for people with Perl system skills
To: SPUG Members <members at seattleperl.org>
Message-ID:
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0603291602430.17872-100000 at gandalf.addnorya.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Software Jobs

If you're a top notch programmer and a fan of movies and TV, we've got the
ideal job for you.

There are many good reasons to work at IMDb, and here are three of them:

* You can make a huge difference at IMDb. We've already developed a
successful business model and a stable production environment, so our
programmers spend their time developing and launching cool projects with
little red tape and lots of autonomy.

* We offer flexibility both in terms of your day-to-day work schedule and
also in terms of work assignments. Ours is no cookie-cutter job.

* Our software developers provide lots of creative input into projects and
get to work on many different types of projects that allow them to think
creatively and to handle interesting computer science challenges.

All software positions require a minimum of a bachelor's degree in
computer science with three plus years of industry programming experience.
In particular, we're looking for applicants who are skilled in Perl and
able to develop systems, not just programs.

1. Software Developer/Database Specialist (Seattle). We are looking for a
senior member of our data team. You'll be involved in the design,
enhancement and schema definition, and data modelling for our high-volume
website. As a senior database developer, you'll help develop scripting
access modules and scope and implement data migration/scalability for
MySQL and Postgres. The team is small so there is there an opportunity to
try your hand at several different skills including building front end
tools for our data managers using state-of-the-art templating systems and
techniques such as AJAX and Mason. To be successful in this position, you
must have strong relational database background and appropriate background
in the use of design tools such as ERWIN. You must be able to perform
hands-on database tuning and query optimization and be experienced in
Linux/Unix environment. Experience in database interfaces such as
ODBC/JDBC is helpful but not required. Experience in a large-scale,
custom-developed, high availability operations is helpful.

2. Software Developer (Seattle). We are looking for an applicant with some
advanced competency in one or more areas that can complement our current
staff. This can include, but is not restricted to C++, Javascript, DHTML,
Mason, AJAX statistics, Windows client development, data modeling, natural
language processing or web services. We'd like to see examples of your
skills in these areas - either from a personal website or from other
materials.

For all positions, you must genuinely be self-motivated. Our staff is
distributed across the planet so we need employees who can function
independently while also interacting efficiently with other team members.
For our novel work environment we need programmers who work hard and think
big.

More Details: You don't really need to love movies or TV to thrive here,
but it certainly doesn't hurt. We have a great environment of talented
people who work hard to make IMDb the most credible film source on the
planet and we'd like you to join us if you're like-minded.

IMDb is owned by Amazon.com, but we operate separately and have our own
technology systems. When you join IMDb, you become a full-fledged
Amazon.com employee - which means you enjoy the cohesive work environment
of a small company while also gaining the bigger benefits of working for a
Fortune 500 company. It's the best of both worlds.

If you are a capable programmer and this opportunity sounds interesting to
you, we're looking forward to hearing from you!

Applicants only: recruiters must not submit on behalf of other people
through this link. Applications not submitted by candidates themselves are
rejected.

Fulltime, full benefits, stock, healthcare.

Mailto jobs at imdb.com

Please specify which position is appropriate for you: 
Software Developer/Database Specialist (Seattle) 
Software Developer (Seattle) 

We're looking forward to hearing from you!

Example questions that you might get asked to solve in an interview or
pre-interview phone call

These questions are deliberately vague or ambiguous - as a software
developer at IMDb you'd need to know how to ask questions to add rigor and
definition to them and then go on to solve them. If these feel
straightforward to you then you're probably a good candidate for us. These
questions are largely language neutral although our primary development
environment is Perl.

* Can you implement Bacon Numbers
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon_number> ? What kind of data structures
would you use to implement them efficiently on a small and large database?

* Tags are a lightweight meta-data collection mechanism that can be
leveraged to allow end-users to classify items in an application with
their own vocabulary. What are the basic functions (including parameters)
that we should implement to support tagging? Can you provide a code sample
for the function that "adds tags"? Would what you've built be a good
architecture for implementing MoKA
<http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Keywords/> ? Why or why not?

* A customer can assert that our website is unresponsive for many reasons.
Name as many of as you can, and a plan of attack to disambiguate one
reason from another.

* What's a good plan of attack for merge-sorting N text files? How about
if the text files are known to be large? (megabytes each)? How about if
they are very large? (gigabytes/terabytes each). How does your plan change
if you don't know the size in advance?


----- End forwarded message -----

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Mar 31 11:43:38 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:43:38 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] another poll
Message-ID: <20060331194338.GB25769@joshheumann.com>

I was wondering how many of us are looking for jobs, so there's a new
poll: http://pdx.pm.org/.  It's all anonymous, so don't worry about
an influx of spam from a headhunter or anything.

Please take part and remember: this is for posterity, so be honest.

J

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Mar 31 12:10:24 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:10:24 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] another poll
Message-ID: <20060331201024.GF25769@joshheumann.com>

...and now the poll is actually working.  Thanks to those who informed
me that it wasn't.

J

> <quote who="Josh Heumann">
> I was wondering how many of us are looking for jobs, so there's a new
> poll: http://pdx.pm.org/.  It's all anonymous, so don't worry about
> an influx of spam from a headhunter or anything.
> 
> Please take part and remember: this is for posterity, so be honest.
> 
> J

From jeff at zeroclue.com  Fri Mar 31 12:13:56 2006
From: jeff at zeroclue.com (Jeff Lavallee)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:13:56 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] another poll
In-Reply-To: <20060331194338.GB25769@joshheumann.com>
References: <20060331194338.GB25769@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <442D8D84.1060702@zeroclue.com>

Josh Heumann wrote:
> I was wondering how many of us are looking for jobs, so there's a new
> poll: http://pdx.pm.org/.  It's all anonymous, so don't worry about
> an influx of spam from a headhunter or anything.
> 
> Please take part and remember: this is for posterity, so be honest.
> 
> J

I know, I know - don't complain about the lack of options ;)

But maybe a middle of the road "Not actively looking, but not so happy I
wouldn't consider leaving if the opportunity was right" option could be
added?

I guess you know where my vote would go, anyways.


jeff


From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Mar 31 12:28:23 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:28:23 -0800
Subject: [Pdx-pm] another poll
In-Reply-To: <442D8D84.1060702@zeroclue.com>
References: <20060331194338.GB25769@joshheumann.com>
	<442D8D84.1060702@zeroclue.com>
Message-ID: <20060331202823.GA26809@joshheumann.com>

<quote who='Jeff Lavallee' when='Fri, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:13:56PM -0800'>
> I know, I know - don't complain about the lack of options ;)
> 
> But maybe a middle of the road "Not actively looking, but not so happy I
> wouldn't consider leaving if the opportunity was right" option could be
> added?
> 
> I guess you know where my vote would go, anyways.

I like that option; so it shall be.

http://pdx.pm.org/

J