From wcooley at nakedape.cc  Thu Jun  1 16:03:03 2006
From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:03:03 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Website Hosting
In-Reply-To: <200605251638.36142.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200605251638.36142.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <1149202984.27442.64.camel@willow.odshp.com>

On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 16:38 -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> INFRASTRUCTURE:
>   Anyone able to provide hosting?  At the moment, it needs to be able 
> to run kwiki (so, at least needs perl cgi.)  If you've got root on 
> something where we would have control over the apache configs, 
> mod_perl, etc, that would rock.  Having a subversion repository might 
> simplify the maintenance.

I can provide hosting; I currently host several other local OSS-oriented
sites and lists.  I need to make an account for you anyway (sorry Eric,
I've been in the UK on holiday).  I have Kwiki 0.38, which I believe is
current (unfortunately, I also only have Perl 5.8.0+patches, since I try
to stick with my vendor [CentOS's] packages).  I could also manage the
DNS if necessary.

Wil
-- 
Wil Cooley <wcooley at nakedape.cc>
Naked Ape Consulting, Ltd
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From ingy at ttul.org  Thu Jun  1 16:09:08 2006
From: ingy at ttul.org (Ingy dot Net)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:09:08 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Website Hosting
In-Reply-To: <1149202984.27442.64.camel@willow.odshp.com>
References: <200605251638.36142.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<1149202984.27442.64.camel@willow.odshp.com>
Message-ID: <20060601230908.GA31390@ttul.org>

Kwiki has known bad issues on 5.8.0


On 01/06/06 16:03 -0700, Wil Cooley wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 16:38 -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> 
> > INFRASTRUCTURE:
> >   Anyone able to provide hosting?  At the moment, it needs to be able 
> > to run kwiki (so, at least needs perl cgi.)  If you've got root on 
> > something where we would have control over the apache configs, 
> > mod_perl, etc, that would rock.  Having a subversion repository might 
> > simplify the maintenance.
> 
> I can provide hosting; I currently host several other local OSS-oriented
> sites and lists.  I need to make an account for you anyway (sorry Eric,
> I've been in the UK on holiday).  I have Kwiki 0.38, which I believe is
> current (unfortunately, I also only have Perl 5.8.0+patches, since I try
> to stick with my vendor [CentOS's] packages).  I could also manage the
> DNS if necessary.
> 
> Wil
> -- 
> Wil Cooley <wcooley at nakedape.cc>
> Naked Ape Consulting, Ltd



> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Jun  1 16:20:17 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:20:17 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Website Hosting
In-Reply-To: <1149202984.27442.64.camel@willow.odshp.com>
References: <200605251638.36142.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<1149202984.27442.64.camel@willow.odshp.com>
Message-ID: <200606011620.17788.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Wil Cooley
# on Thursday 01 June 2006 04:03 pm:

>I can provide hosting

Sorry to let the list get out of the loop.  I had tentatively decided to 
take Bruce Keeler up on his offer.  At the moment, we're only waiting 
for mutually available time.

There's still time for someone to volunteer to implement wiz-bang new 
tech and/or volunteer to help with the switchover.

I'm also not against having a fallback to a static "down for 
maintenance" page though and was actually planning to do that on my own 
server if need be.

If anyone feels strongly about Bruce vs Wil (including Wil or Bruce :-), 
feel free to contact us off-list.

--Eric
-- 
"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious."
--Murphy's Second Corollary
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Thu Jun  1 16:21:41 2006
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:21:41 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON 2006: Last Call for Early Registration Discounts
Message-ID: <20060601232141.GF10569@joshheumann.com>

----- Forwarded message from O'Reilly Conferences <conf-admin at oreillynet.com> -----

From: "O'Reilly Conferences" <conf-admin at oreillynet.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 15:20:17 -0700

The O'Reilly Open Source Convention
July 24-28, 2006 in Portland, Oregon
http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon

A quick reminder:  early registration for OSCON 2006 ends in just a few
days.  Register by June 5 and take advantage of great savings:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/46/register.html 

This year's convention showcases many worthwhile new projects alongside
the tried-and-true technologies. 
Below is just a small slice of who and what will be at OSCON:
- The Semasiology of Open Source (Part III) with Robert Lefkowitz, Root
   Markets
- Embedded Database System with Francois Orsini, Sun Microsystems
- A Simple Guide to Linux File Systems with Val Henson, Intel
- Open Source, APIs, and the Summer of Code at Google with Chris DiBona,
   Google
- Write A Real, Working Linux Driver with Greg Kroah-Hartman, SuSE
   Labs/Novell
- Maximum Velocity MySQL with Jay Pipes, MySQL AB
- The Ruby Guidebook with Dave Thomas, The Pragmatic Programmers
- Asterisk Inside and Out with Brian Capouch, Saint Joseph's College
- Using Ruby on Rails and Ajax to Make a Massive Multiplayer Game with
   Michael Buffington
- Businesses Partnering with Open Source Communities with James Howison,
   Syracuse University
- Open Source and the U.S. Government with John Scott, Consultant,
   Selection Pressure
- VoIP Phreaking with Hendrik Scholz, Freenet Cityline GmbH
- Ruby and .NET with John Lam, ObjectSharp
- Higher-Order Perl with Mark-Jason Dominus, Plover Systems Co.
- Power PHP Testing with Chris Shiflett, Brain Bulb
- Python Optimization with Brian Quinlan, Scionics Computer Innovation
- Rails Guidebook with Mike Clark
- Real World Web Services with Scott Davis, OpenLogic
- Open Source Voting with Arthur Keller, Open Voting Consortium
- The Best and Worst of Open Source Business Tactics with Cliff Schmidt,
   Apache Software Foundation

Check out the hundreds of OSCON sessions here:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/46/sessions.html
and tens of tutorials here:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/46/tutorials.html

Be sure to register for the O'Reilly Radar Executive Briefing 
This is an all-day event takes place Tuesday, July 25 at OSCON.  
Organized by Matt Asay and Tim O'Reilly, the Executive Briefing will give
a limited number of attendees an exclusive opportunity to meet with the
innovators, entrepreneurs, and companies that we believe will have the
biggest impact on the world of open source in the year to come. Some of
the concepts the Executive Briefing will explore include:
- Open Source and the Future of Asymmetric Competition 
- Architecting Participation: Open Source 2.0
- Ghost in the Machine: the Impact of Open Source on Web 2.0
- Who's on the O'Reilly Open Source Radar?
- What's Microsoft Doing with Open Source?

Read more about the Executive Briefing here:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/46/radar.html

Fun at OSCON
OSCON runs five full days--and nights. One of the best things about OSCON
is connecting with interesting people you just wouldn't run into anywhere
else. To help you make those connections, we're planning all kinds of
receptions, special presentations (hint: Damian Conway and "The Da Vinci
Codebase"), tours, awards, "off-campus" shindigs, and a couple of other
surprises, too. Watch our Events page for more details:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/46/events.html

See you in Portland,
The O'Reilly Conference Team

- For news articles, blogs, photos, and speaker presentation files from
OSCON 2005, visit: 
http://www.oreillynet.com/oscon2005/

- For information on exhibition and sponsorship opportunities at O'Reilly
conferences, contact Andrew Calvo at (707) 827-7176, or
andrewc at oreilly.com

- To become a media sponsor, contact Yvonne Romaine at (707) 827-7198, or
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----- End forwarded message -----

From xrdawson at gmail.com  Thu Jun  1 23:34:43 2006
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 23:34:43 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] anyone using IPTables::IPv4?
Message-ID: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>

Is anyone on this list using the iptables interface for perl?  Or,
anyone who prefers just shelling out to the iptables binary?  If you
have preferences, I would like to hear them.

Thanks,
Chris

From chromatic at wgz.org  Thu Jun  1 23:41:11 2006
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 23:41:11 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] anyone using IPTables::IPv4?
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200606012341.11659.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Thursday 01 June 2006 23:34, Chris Dawson wrote:

> Is anyone on this list using the iptables interface for perl?  Or,
> anyone who prefers just shelling out to the iptables binary?  If you
> have preferences, I would like to hear them.

I couldn't get it to build, last time I tried it a couple of months ago.  This 
was the cause of much cursing, as I'm sure you cannot imagine from such a 
gentle soul.

-- c

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Jun  1 23:46:09 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 23:46:09 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] anyone using IPTables::IPv4?
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200606012346.10163.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Chris Dawson
# on Thursday 01 June 2006 11:34 pm:

>Is anyone on this list using the iptables interface for perl?

I think someone is.

  http://fut.patch.com/

Hmm.  Maybe a good meeting topic?

--Eric
-- 
The only thing that could save UNIX at this late date would be a new $30
shareware version that runs on an unexpanded Commodore 64.
--Don Lancaster (1991)
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From shlomif at iglu.org.il  Fri Jun  2 04:53:36 2006
From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 14:53:36 +0300
Subject: [Pdx-pm] anyone using IPTables::IPv4?
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200606021453.37035.shlomif@iglu.org.il>

On Friday 02 June 2006 09:34, Chris Dawson wrote:
> Is anyone on this list using the iptables interface for perl?  Or,
> anyone who prefers just shelling out to the iptables binary?  If you
> have preferences, I would like to hear them.
>

I'm not sure if I used IPTables::IPv4, but I did use IPTable::IPv4::IPQueue 
back in my days:

http://search.cpan.org/~jmorris/perlipq-1.25/

Its latest release was made at 14-Jan-2002, but a Google search shows that it 
still has Debian and Ubuntu packages, so it may still work. The project I did 
with it was:

http://ip-noise.berlios.de/

It used to be the first hit on Google for the query "ip noise" (without the 
quotes), but since then has dropped in its ranking for this query.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      shlomif at iglu.org.il
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.

From shlomif at iglu.org.il  Fri Jun  2 04:53:36 2006
From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 14:53:36 +0300
Subject: [Pdx-pm] anyone using IPTables::IPv4?
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200606021453.37035.shlomif@iglu.org.il>

On Friday 02 June 2006 09:34, Chris Dawson wrote:
> Is anyone on this list using the iptables interface for perl?  Or,
> anyone who prefers just shelling out to the iptables binary?  If you
> have preferences, I would like to hear them.
>

I'm not sure if I used IPTables::IPv4, but I did use IPTable::IPv4::IPQueue 
back in my days:

http://search.cpan.org/~jmorris/perlipq-1.25/

Its latest release was made at 14-Jan-2002, but a Google search shows that it 
still has Debian and Ubuntu packages, so it may still work. The project I did 
with it was:

http://ip-noise.berlios.de/

It used to be the first hit on Google for the query "ip noise" (without the 
quotes), but since then has dropped in its ranking for this query.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      shlomif at iglu.org.il
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.

From mikeraz at patch.com  Fri Jun  2 05:32:53 2006
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 05:32:53 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] anyone using IPTables::IPv4?
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060602123253.GA22391@patch.com>

Chris Dawson wrote:
> Is anyone on this list using the iptables interface for perl?  Or,
> anyone who prefers just shelling out to the iptables binary?  If you
> have preferences, I would like to hear them.

I am. I implemented it as a point of pride, "Real Men Don't Shell Out When
They Have a Module To Use," kind of thing.

Both can work, the iptables interface is arguably more trouble than it's worth
- for instance you need to go to the iptables API documentation to understand
how to do some things.  On my todo list is proving out a suspected memory leak in it.

You may recall my PLUG AT presentation from February, the iptables interface
was the thing that "didn't work".  After that talk I did complete (and correct, 
and debug) the program I talked about that night.  The same program that had
been working in a shell-out-to-the-binary method for over a year. 

-- 
      Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
    Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
http://www.patch.com/words/ or http://fut.patch.com/ 
  The fortune cookie says:
"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will
fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."
-- Bertrand Russell


From raanders at acm.org  Fri Jun  2 08:58:41 2006
From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:58:41 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] anyone using IPTables::IPv4?
In-Reply-To: <20060602123253.GA22391@patch.com>
References: <659b9ea30606012334x1f72288chf6f83656aebbfb3b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060602123253.GA22391@patch.com>
Message-ID: <44806031.3070904@acm.org>

Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> Chris Dawson wrote:
> 
>>Is anyone on this list using the iptables interface for perl?  Or,
>>anyone who prefers just shelling out to the iptables binary?  If you
>>have preferences, I would like to hear them.

Well I've been thinking of getting fut installed on the systems that 
currently use 'denyhosts.py'

This was the kick I needed so I tried.  IPTables::IPv4 fails to install 
on two Fedora Core systems -- 1 and 4.  Most ( all? ) of the tests fail. 
  I attempted using perl -MCPAN -e shell.
    I doubt installing from the tarball will have better results.

> I am. I implemented it as a point of pride, "Real Men Don't Shell Out When
> They Have a Module To Use," kind of thing.

Typically I try ( for awhile anyway ) to beat the process into 
submission using a brute force method.  This hurts!  So what would be a 
_more sophisticated_ procedure to get this done?

FYI the start of the tests looks like this

make[1]: Leaving directory `/root/.cpan/build/IPTables-IPv4-0.98/modules'
PERL_DL_NONLAZY=1 
IPT_MODPATH=/root/.cpan/build/IPTables-IPv4-0.98/modules /usr/bin/perl 
"-MExtUtils::Command::MM" "-e" "test_harness(0, 'blib/lib', 
'blib/arch')" t/*.t
t/00save_current_ruleset....Useless use of a variable in void context at 
/root/.cpan/build/IPTables-IPv4-0.98/blib/lib/IPTables/IPv4.pm line 5.
Use of uninitialized value in <HANDLE> at 
/root/.cpan/build/IPTables-IPv4-0.98/blib/lib/IPTables/IPv4/Toplevel.pm 
line 50.
readline() on unopened filehandle at 
/root/.cpan/build/IPTables-IPv4-0.98/blib/lib/IPTables/IPv4/Toplevel.pm 
line 50.
Use of uninitialized value in ref-to-glob cast at 
/root/.cpan/build/IPTables-IPv4-0.98/blib/lib/IPTables/IPv4/Toplevel.pm 
line 52.
skipped
         all skipped: no reason given


And ends like this

Failed Test        Stat Wstat Total Fail  Failed  List of Failed
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
t/01simple_manip.t    1   256    14   27 192.86%  1-14
t/03admin.t           1   256    45   89 197.78%  1-45
t/03modules.t         1   256    11   21 190.91%  1-11
t/04append.t          1   256    20   39 195.00%  1-20
t/05insert.t          1   256    28   55 196.43%  1-28
t/07flush.t           1   256     9   17 188.89%  1-9
t/08replace.t         1   256    10   19 190.00%  1-10
t/14badtarget.t       1   256     7   13 185.71%  1-7
t/15manyrules.t       1   256    29   57 196.55%  1-29
t/16manyrules2.t      1   256    20   39 195.00%  1-20
t/18rename.t          1   256    17   33 194.12%  1-17
t/19listports.t       1   256     7   13 185.71%  1-7
t/24delete.t          1   256    19   37 194.74%  1-19
t/56speed.t           1   256     7   13 185.71%  1-7
t/59numberproto.t     1   256     2    3 150.00%  1-2
2 tests skipped.
Failed 15/17 test scripts, 11.76% okay. 245/245 subtests failed, 0.00% okay.
make: *** [test_dynamic] Error 255
   /usr/bin/make test -- NOT OK
Running make install
   make test had returned bad status, won't install without force

I have my big stick out and I'm going to use it for a bit longer.  If 
anyonw has suggestions or ideas please let me know.

Rod
-- 
> 
> Both can work, the iptables interface is arguably more trouble than it's worth
> - for instance you need to go to the iptables API documentation to understand
> how to do some things.  On my todo list is proving out a suspected memory leak in it.
> 
> You may recall my PLUG AT presentation from February, the iptables interface
> was the thing that "didn't work".  After that talk I did complete (and correct, 
> and debug) the program I talked about that night.  The same program that had
> been working in a shell-out-to-the-binary method for over a year. 
> 


From schwern at gmail.com  Fri Jun  2 13:41:03 2006
From: schwern at gmail.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 13:41:03 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] NW Game Developer's Festival this Saturday FREEEEEEEEEEE
Message-ID: <313c1d130606021341k5709c7cfja75299b8ff14ff31@mail.gmail.com>

A friend of mine at PSU tipped me off to this.  I'm going.
http://www.nwgamesfestival.com/

Its at PSU this Saturday starting at 1pm with talks going through til 6pm
and then dinner, socializing and such afterwards with live video game music
at Ground Kontrol!

Oh yeah, and its free.
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From david.brewer at gmail.com  Tue Jun  6 13:35:52 2006
From: david.brewer at gmail.com (David Brewer)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 13:35:52 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Memory leak issue in DBI?
Message-ID: <2248649a0606061335k6ab036d3weebf582a9a54d177@mail.gmail.com>

I am having a memory leak issue that seems to involve DBI -- I've
already posted it on perl.dbi.users, but I thought I'd also see if
anyone here has run into this problem before.

First off, a brief summary.  I am working on a large website project
using Apache::ASP / mod_perl.  This is on Windows servers, so the Perl
version is ActivePerl 5.8.7 (build 815).  In our testing we we noticed
that the Apache process just kept growing, and growing, and growing.
After an extensive hunt for the culprit I believe I've narrowed it
down to DBI.

In fact, I've been able to construct a relatively simple test script
which demonstrates the problem.  It does nothing but connect to a
database, execute a query, look at the column names, and then close
the database connection.  I think that rules out any responsibility
for this problem lying with mod_perl, Apache::ASP, or any of the many
other modules I am using on this project.  My own code probably has a
few small leaks which I am trying to track down, but the bulk of the
problem is demonstrated by this test script:

##################################################
use strict;
use warnings;
use DBI;

my $dsn = qq{DBI:ODBC:driver={SQL
Server};Server=SERVERNAME;database=DBNAME;uid=DBUSER;pwd=PASSWORD;};
my $options = { RaiseError => 1 } ;

# in reality this is a enormous query involving table variables
# in MSSQL -- excluded here for simplicity.  I can include
# it if you want to see it.
my $sql = '';

for my $i (1..50) {
    print "Executing iteration $i... \n";
    my $dbh = DBI->connect($dsn, $options);
    $dbh->{LongReadLen} = 20000;
    my $sth = $dbh->prepare($sql);
    $sth->execute();
    $sth->{NAME};
    $sth->finish;
    $dbh->disconnect();
    undef($dbh);
    sleep(1);

}
##################################################

Some notes about this script:

* I am connecting to an MSSQL database.
* The query I am running is not included in the example because it is
huge and complicated.  It makes use of table variables and the result
is about 10 rows, each of which has 22 columns.  Several of the
columns contain long text.
* It seems to be leaking about 144k of memory per trip through the
loop.  The same loop leaks about 27.5k each time if I use the default
'LongReadLen', so it may be somehow related to column size.
* I'm not fetching any data after executing the query, just touching
$sth->{NAME} to force it to find the column names. If I comment the
line with $sth->{NAME}, then the leak becomes so small as to be
negligible.

The way I am computing the size of the leak in this case is running a
version of the script where the loop executes once, then looking at
the memory taken up by the perl process.  Then I execute a version of
the script where the loop executes N times, subtract the memory taken
in the first test from the memory taken by the second test, and divide
by N-1 to get the average memory leaked per pass.

I have tested this same operation using Apache::Leak and Devel::Leak
to try to get more detailed information about what, specifically, is
leaking.  I wasn't able to figure out where the leak is happening but
I did determine that 4 SVs are getting leaked per iteration.

I am using DBI 1.50 with DBD::ODBC 1.13.  I am using persistent
database connections
via the Apache::DBI module.  I am using ActivePerl 5.8.7.

Does this issue ring any bells for anyone out there?  I've been
fighting with it on and off for several days now and I'm not sure
where to go with it next...

Thanks for any help,

David Brewer

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 15:19:54 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:19:54 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] June 14th Meeting Reminder -- 1 week out
Message-ID: <200606071519.54957.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

(Chris, note the time change.)

from: http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
June Meeting


June 14th, 6:53pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave 


Perl Hacks You Probably Never Knew Existed 


chromatic 


Perl is a powerful language with many secrets. It's no wonder that we 
call the true masters of Perl gurus -- they have studied and discovered 
arcane knowledge and arcana. 


In this talk, Perl Hacks lead author chromatic will show off several 
hacks you probably didn't even know existed. Some are practical. Some 
are disgusting. Every one is worth learning for when you find a problem 
you just can't solve any other way. Even if you've heard of them 
before, he'll show how they work -- so you can create your own 
practical mayhem! 


Potential hacks include: 

Source filtering without source filters 
Using shared libraries without a compiler 
Creating truly private methods 
Reading and writing lexicals without permission 
Controlling the runloop from pure Perl 
Making invocantless methods 
Making multimethods without source filters 

If you have a preference, please feel free to mark the most interesting 
subject -- or suggest one. 


This talk is most suitable for intermediate Perl programmers, though 
there is likely something an experienced Perl programmer doesn't know 
and it should be entertaining for novices as well.


From raanders at acm.org  Wed Jun 14 08:16:52 2006
From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:16:52 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Text based GUI
Message-ID: <44902864.6010209@acm.org>

I'm working on an application that would benefit from a Text-GUI ( TUI? ).

I looked at Term::TUI but it is not what I want -- too command line 
oriented.  I've looked at Newt and Term::Newt but they won't install on 
a Fedora Core 4 system and since they are rather old I don't know if I'm 
up to fixing them to work with a modern distribution.

Is there any other modules that would provide this functionality?

Perhaps someone has hacked Newt/Term::Newt into submission?

Google and CPAN searches have only found these so maybe a better set of 
search terms would help.  Ideas?


TIA,
Rod
-- 

From saj_pdx-pm at thecommune.net  Wed Jun 14 08:38:08 2006
From: saj_pdx-pm at thecommune.net (Stuart Johnston)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:38:08 -0500
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Text based GUI
In-Reply-To: <44902864.6010209@acm.org>
References: <44902864.6010209@acm.org>
Message-ID: <44902D60.3000803@thecommune.net>

Roderick A. Anderson wrote:
> I'm working on an application that would benefit from a Text-GUI ( TUI? ).
> 
> I looked at Term::TUI but it is not what I want -- too command line 
> oriented.  I've looked at Newt and Term::Newt but they won't install on 
> a Fedora Core 4 system and since they are rather old I don't know if I'm 
> up to fixing them to work with a modern distribution.
> 
> Is there any other modules that would provide this functionality?
> 
> Perhaps someone has hacked Newt/Term::Newt into submission?
> 
> Google and CPAN searches have only found these so maybe a better set of 
> search terms would help.  Ideas?

Have you tried installing the newt-perl package in FC4?  Alternatively,
there is ncurses.


From raanders at acm.org  Wed Jun 14 08:39:57 2006
From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:39:57 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Text based GUI
In-Reply-To: <44902C59.2070308@thecommune.net>
References: <44902864.6010209@acm.org> <44902C59.2070308@thecommune.net>
Message-ID: <44902DCD.4070404@acm.org>

Stuart Johnston wrote:
> Roderick A. Anderson wrote:
> 
>> I'm working on an application that would benefit from a Text-GUI ( 
>> TUI? ).
>>
>> I looked at Term::TUI but it is not what I want -- too command line 
>> oriented.  I've looked at Newt and Term::Newt but they won't install 
>> on a Fedora Core 4 system and since they are rather old I don't know 
>> if I'm up to fixing them to work with a modern distribution.
>>
>> Is there any other modules that would provide this functionality?
>>
>> Perhaps someone has hacked Newt/Term::Newt into submission?
>>
>> Google and CPAN searches have only found these so maybe a better set 
>> of search terms would help.  Ideas?
> 
> 
> Have you tried installing the newt-perl package in FC4?  Alternatively, 
> there is ncurses.

The, sloped shoulders and flat forehead, syndrome strikes me again.

I did a yum search newt but didn't pipe it into less so either it didn't 
show up or I didn't scroll the terminal window up far enough to see it.

Thanks!


Rod
-- 



From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Wed Jun 14 10:10:01 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:10:01 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Meeting Tonight -- 6:53pm
Message-ID: <200606141010.01825.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

(Chris, note the time change.)

Also on the agenda for tonight:

  Shirts?
  OSCON/OSCamp activity planning/announcements

from: http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
June Meeting


June 14th, 6:53pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave 


Perl Hacks You Probably Never Knew Existed 


chromatic 


Perl is a powerful language with many secrets. It's no wonder that we 
call the true masters of Perl gurus -- they have studied and discovered 
arcane knowledge and arcana. 


In this talk, Perl Hacks lead author chromatic will show off several 
hacks you probably didn't even know existed. Some are practical. Some 
are disgusting. Every one is worth learning for when you find a problem 
you just can't solve any other way. Even if you've heard of them 
before, he'll show how they work -- so you can create your own 
practical mayhem! 


Potential hacks include: 

Source filtering without source filters 
Using shared libraries without a compiler 
Creating truly private methods 
Reading and writing lexicals without permission 
Controlling the runloop from pure Perl 
Making invocantless methods 
Making multimethods without source filters 

If you have a preference, please feel free to mark the most interesting 
subject -- or suggest one. 


This talk is most suitable for intermediate Perl programmers, though 
there is likely something an experienced Perl programmer doesn't know 
and it should be entertaining for novices as well.


From shlomif at iglu.org.il  Wed Jun 14 10:10:58 2006
From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:10:58 +0300
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Text based GUI
In-Reply-To: <44902864.6010209@acm.org>
References: <44902864.6010209@acm.org>
Message-ID: <200606142010.58704.shlomif@iglu.org.il>

On Wednesday 14 June 2006 18:16, Roderick A. Anderson wrote:
> I'm working on an application that would benefit from a Text-GUI ( TUI? ).
>
> I looked at Term::TUI but it is not what I want -- too command line
> oriented.  I've looked at Newt and Term::Newt but they won't install on
> a Fedora Core 4 system and since they are rather old I don't know if I'm
> up to fixing them to work with a modern distribution.
>
> Is there any other modules that would provide this functionality?
>
> Perhaps someone has hacked Newt/Term::Newt into submission?
>
> Google and CPAN searches have only found these so maybe a better set of
> search terms would help.  Ideas?
>

Have you looked at:

http://search.cpan.org/dist/Curses-UI/

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

>
> TIA,
> Rod

-- 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      shlomif at iglu.org.il
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.

From xrdawson at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 04:28:41 2006
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 04:28:41 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Meeting Tonight -- 6:53pm
In-Reply-To: <200606141010.01825.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200606141010.01825.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30606150428q7691143fm3ffd0707a551348d@mail.gmail.com>

Podcast is up:

http://podasp.com:8000/P/PD/PDX.pm/692.mp3.m3u
http://pdxpm.podasp.com/

I really enjoyed this talk.  It takes a really brilliant speaker to
take a topic so detailed and complex and make it seem so simple and
elegant.

Chris

On 6/14/06, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
> (Chris, note the time change.)
>
> Also on the agenda for tonight:
>
>   Shirts?
>   OSCON/OSCamp activity planning/announcements
>
> from: http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> June Meeting
>
>
> June 14th, 6:53pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave
>
>
> Perl Hacks You Probably Never Knew Existed
>
>
> chromatic
>
>
> Perl is a powerful language with many secrets. It's no wonder that we
> call the true masters of Perl gurus -- they have studied and discovered
> arcane knowledge and arcana.
>
>
> In this talk, Perl Hacks lead author chromatic will show off several
> hacks you probably didn't even know existed. Some are practical. Some
> are disgusting. Every one is worth learning for when you find a problem
> you just can't solve any other way. Even if you've heard of them
> before, he'll show how they work -- so you can create your own
> practical mayhem!
>
>
> Potential hacks include:
>
> Source filtering without source filters
> Using shared libraries without a compiler
> Creating truly private methods
> Reading and writing lexicals without permission
> Controlling the runloop from pure Perl
> Making invocantless methods
> Making multimethods without source filters
>
> If you have a preference, please feel free to mark the most interesting
> subject -- or suggest one.
>
>
> This talk is most suitable for intermediate Perl programmers, though
> there is likely something an experienced Perl programmer doesn't know
> and it should be entertaining for novices as well.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 21:41:12 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:41:12 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: Newsletter from the O'Reilly UG Program, June 15
Message-ID: <200606152141.12815.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Highlights:

  ***Looking for Slashdot Reviewers
  ***Promotional Material Available:
  The following items are available for your next meeting.
    -O'Reilly Photoshop Cook-off Flyers
    -30% UG Discount bookmarks <http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/discount/>

New Releases
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Active Directory Cookbook, Second Edition
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-Atlas UpdatePanel Control (PDF)
-The Book of Nero 7
-Building Scalable Web Sites
-Building Tag Clouds in Perl and PHP (PDF)
-Computer Security Basics, Second Edition
-Deliver First Class Websites
-Digital Photography: The Missing Manual
-The eBay Price Guide
-From Java to Ruby
-HTML and XHTML Pocket Reference, Third Edition
-Interface Oriented Design
-Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete
-No Fluff, Just Stuff Anthology
-Object Oriented PHP
-Pragmatic Version Control, Second Edition
-Process Improvement Essentials (Rough Cuts Version)
-RJS Templates for Rails (PDF)
-Search Engine Optimization (PDF)
-SQL Server 2005 Black Book, Second Edition
-Steal This Computer Book 4.0, Fourth Edition
-Ubuntu Hacks
-Understanding MySQL Internals (Rough Cuts Version)
-Unicode Explained
-Visual C# 2005 Black Book
-Web Services on Rails (PDF)
-Winternals Defragmentation, Recovery, and Administration
 Field Guide

--Eric
----------  Forwarded Message:  ----------

Subject: Newsletter from the O'Reilly UG Program, June 15
Date: Thursday 15 June 2006 05:39 pm
From: "Marsee Henon" <marsee at oreilly.com>
To: ewilhelm at cpan.org

================================================================
O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders
June 15, 2006
================================================================
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================================================================
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June 15, 2006
================================================================
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----------------------------------------------------------------
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-Computer Security Basics, Second Edition
-Deliver First Class Websites
-Digital Photography: The Missing Manual
-The eBay Price Guide
-From Java to Ruby
-HTML and XHTML Pocket Reference, Third Edition
-Interface Oriented Design
-Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete
-No Fluff, Just Stuff Anthology
-Object Oriented PHP
-Pragmatic Version Control, Second Edition
-Process Improvement Essentials (Rough Cuts Version)
-RJS Templates for Rails (PDF)
-Search Engine Optimization (PDF)
-SQL Server 2005 Black Book, Second Edition
-Steal This Computer Book 4.0, Fourth Edition
-Ubuntu Hacks
-Understanding MySQL Internals (Rough Cuts Version)
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-Visual C# 2005 Black Book
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-Winternals Defragmentation, Recovery, and Administration
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***The eBay Price Guide
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ISBN: 1593270550
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***From Java to Ruby
Publisher: Pragmatic Bookshelf
ISBN: 0976694093
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<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0976694093/>


***HTML and XHTML Pocket Reference, Third Edition
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ISBN: 0596527276
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<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0976694050/>


***Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete
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ISBN: 1933097132
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<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1933097132/>


***No Fluff, Just Stuff Anthology
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ISBN: 0977616665
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***Object Oriented PHP
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ISBN: 1593270771
"Object Oriented PHP" shows developers how to take advantage of the new
object oriented features of PHP. The author's practical approach uses
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***Pragmatic Version Control, Second Edition
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ISBN: 0977616657
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 rolled back.
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0977616657/>


***Process Improvement Essentials (Rough Cuts Version)
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ISBN: 0596527667
"Software Process Improvement Essentials" combines the foundation
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 initiatives in their organization. The three leading programs: ISO
 9001:2000, CMMI, and Six Sigma--amidst the buzz and hype--tend to get
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<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/artofsoftware/>


***RJS Templates for Rails (PDF)
Publisher: O'Reilly
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RJS templates are an exciting and powerful new type of template added
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***Search Engine Optimization (PDF)
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***SQL Server 2005 Black Book, Second Edition
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***Steal This Computer Book 4.0, Fourth Edition
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***Ubuntu Hacks
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***Understanding MySQL Internals: Rough Cuts Version
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***Unicode Explained
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***Visual C# 2005 Black Book
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***Winternals Defragmentation, Recovery, and Administration Field Guide
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***Books Take Offbeat, Sometimes Harsh View of Tech Industry
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the soon-to-be indispensable 'It's Never Done that Before' by John
 Ross."
 <http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=TECHTALK-06-07
-06>

---------------------
Open Source
---------------------
***Design Tips for Building Tag Clouds
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<http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2006/06/01/switching-back.html
>

---------------------
Digital Media
---------------------
***Travel Advice for Photographers
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<http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/06/14/travel-advice-for-photograp
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---------------------
Mac
---------------------
***Apple vs. the Bloggers: How It Unfolded and Where It Stands Now
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<http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/06/13/apple-vs-the-bloggers
.html>


***MacBook Pro: The Thermal Paste Question
The MacBook Pro is a hot machine--literally so hot that it becomes
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<http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/05/23/thermal-paste-questio
n.html>

---------------------
Windows/.NET
---------------------
***Windows Vista Beta 2 Up Close and Personal
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<http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/windows/2006/05/30/whats-good-and-bad-
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***Avalon Beta 2 Change Notes + Samples
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<http://www.sellsbrothers.com/news/showTopic.aspx?ixTopic=1996>


***Designing Small Windows Networks
It's not as simple as you think to design a network for small
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 <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/windows/2006/06/06/designing-small-wi
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---------------------
Web
---------------------
***HTML & CSS: An Absolute Beginner's Guide
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<http://www.sitepoint.com/article/html-css-beginners-guide>


***Google SEO Algorithm Problems?
Has your site dropped out of the Google index? Can't find your site on
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<http://www.sitepoint.com/article/google-seo-algorithm-problems>


***First Look: Google Web Toolkit
Kevin takes a look at the new toolkit from Google, which presents a
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<http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2006/05/25/first-look-google-web-toolki
t/>

---------------------
Java
---------------------
***What Is Jetty?
Of course Tomcat is the first Java application server you think of, but
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<http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2006/06/14/what-is-jetty.html>


***Achieving Inversion of Control with Eclipse RCP
Eclipse RCP uses a popular plugin scheme for extending the capabilities
of the core platform. Meanwhile, the Inversion of Control pattern is a
popular means of having a runtime container provide an implementation
 of some needed service. Put them together and effectively, you're
 plugging in the implementation of your plugin. Riccardo Govoni shows
 how a little bytecode manipulation makes this possible.
<http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2006/06/07/ioc-for-eclipse-rcp.html
>

---------------------
Podcasts
---------------------
***MacVoices #654: Edie Freedman on the 2006 O'Reilly Photoshop
 Cook-off, Photoshop Cookbooks, and O'Reilly Animals
Editor Edie Freedman talks about the 2006 O'Reilly Photoshop Cook-off
contest, the O'Reilly Photoshop Cookbook series, and about how she
helped create the animal covers that have become such an important part
of the O'Reilly identity.
<http://www.macvoices.com/archives/2006/654.html>


***Pixie Hunt: A High-Tech Scavenger Hunt
Teams of Where 2.0 attendees hit the streets of San Jose last night on
 a high-tech scavenger hunt. They carried camera phones and GPS pucks
 as they raced to complete their tasks quickly and creatively. (4
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<http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2006/06/13/where-podcast-pixie
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Until next time--

Marsee Henon


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-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
"Everything goes wrong all at once."
--Quantized Revision of Murphy's Law
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
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From chromatic at wgz.org  Thu Jun 15 22:53:09 2006
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 22:53:09 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Meeting Tonight -- 6:53pm
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30606150428q7691143fm3ffd0707a551348d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200606141010.01825.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<659b9ea30606150428q7691143fm3ffd0707a551348d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200606152253.10085.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Thursday 15 June 2006 04:28, Chris Dawson wrote:

> I really enjoyed this talk.  It takes a really brilliant speaker to
> take a topic so detailed and complex and make it seem so simple and
> elegant.

Thanks, Chris.

I plan to make my code available soon, but I'm giving a similar talk at 
YAPC::NA in a couple of weeks and at OSCON in about a month, so it might take 
a bit.

-- c

From chromatic at wgz.org  Thu Jun 15 22:53:09 2006
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 22:53:09 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Meeting Tonight -- 6:53pm
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30606150428q7691143fm3ffd0707a551348d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200606141010.01825.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<659b9ea30606150428q7691143fm3ffd0707a551348d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200606152253.10085.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Thursday 15 June 2006 04:28, Chris Dawson wrote:

> I really enjoyed this talk.  It takes a really brilliant speaker to
> take a topic so detailed and complex and make it seem so simple and
> elegant.

Thanks, Chris.

I plan to make my code available soon, but I'm giving a similar talk at 
YAPC::NA in a couple of weeks and at OSCON in about a month, so it might take 
a bit.

-- c

From tex at off.org  Fri Jun 16 13:02:11 2006
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:02:11 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] require './file' vs. require 'file'
Message-ID: <20060616200211.GH7880@gblx.net>

	I have a perplexing problem regarding a tool I've inhereted.

	In the code there is:

require './my_lib.pl';

	where ./my_lib.pl is a symlink to ../my/my_lib.pl.
	The full path to the actual file is:

/usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/my/my_lib.pl

	So, because I think the symlink system is stinky I would like to
do:

use lib '/usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/my';

and

require 'my_lib.pl';


	but that causes the code to fail without error. Because the code
is full of eval()s it's not obvious how one would figure out where exactly
it's failing.

	Any idea why or how this could happen?

	Thanks,

	Austin

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Fri Jun 16 18:37:05 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:37:05 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Audrey Tang Sat Jun 24th
Message-ID: <2fa716eb0606161837r588f8ae2y553e01f975a9be58@mail.gmail.com>

Mongers,

As I mentioned at this week's meeting, Audrey Tang (formerly Autrijus)
of Pugs fame will be in Portland this month.

She has agreed to speak to us on the 24th at 7pm.

This will be at free-geek

>From Audrey:  "I can talk about Pugs/Perl6 _and_ Jifty, but please ask
the mongers to pick a priority in case that I got too exhausted to do
both
talks. :-)"

Which topic would you all like to hear first?  Vote via mail (on or
off list.)  Don't be shy.

So, there's the announcement.  Tell your friends.  Tell your boss.
Cancel your anniversary dinner, etc.

If someone could also please wiki this on the home page, I won't be
able to get to it until Mon.

Anyone feel like pinning-up posters?

--Eric
-- 
gmail still broken?

From david at kineticode.com  Fri Jun 16 19:26:38 2006
From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:26:38 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Audrey Tang Sat Jun 24th
In-Reply-To: <2fa716eb0606161837r588f8ae2y553e01f975a9be58@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2fa716eb0606161837r588f8ae2y553e01f975a9be58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1198BA16-C081-40DF-9E58-619B8F8BF94A@kineticode.com>

On Jun 16, 2006, at 18:37, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> Which topic would you all like to hear first?  Vote via mail (on or
> off list.)  Don't be shy.

I say Jifty.

D

From xrdawson at gmail.com  Sat Jun 17 11:01:30 2006
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:01:30 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Audrey Tang Sat Jun 24th
In-Reply-To: <2fa716eb0606161837r588f8ae2y553e01f975a9be58@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2fa716eb0606161837r588f8ae2y553e01f975a9be58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30606171101u735aed6bwb62c8bb3cf8f228a@mail.gmail.com>

Jifty is what I want to hear about as well.

Chris

On 6/16/06, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mongers,
>
> As I mentioned at this week's meeting, Audrey Tang (formerly Autrijus)
> of Pugs fame will be in Portland this month.
>
> She has agreed to speak to us on the 24th at 7pm.
>
> This will be at free-geek
>
> >From Audrey:  "I can talk about Pugs/Perl6 _and_ Jifty, but please ask
> the mongers to pick a priority in case that I got too exhausted to do
> both
> talks. :-)"
>
> Which topic would you all like to hear first?  Vote via mail (on or
> off list.)  Don't be shy.
>
> So, there's the announcement.  Tell your friends.  Tell your boss.
> Cancel your anniversary dinner, etc.
>
> If someone could also please wiki this on the home page, I won't be
> able to get to it until Mon.
>
> Anyone feel like pinning-up posters?
>
> --Eric
> --
> gmail still broken?
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From rootbeer at redcat.com  Sat Jun 17 11:15:11 2006
From: rootbeer at redcat.com (Tom Phoenix)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:15:11 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] require './file' vs. require 'file'
In-Reply-To: <20060616200211.GH7880@gblx.net>
References: <20060616200211.GH7880@gblx.net>
Message-ID: <31086b240606171115n74fb60bfub12b1e20d6addd27@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/16/06, Austin Schutz <tex at off.org> wrote:

>         In the code there is:
>
> require './my_lib.pl';
>
>         where ./my_lib.pl is a symlink to ../my/my_lib.pl.
>         The full path to the actual file is:
>
> /usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/my/my_lib.pl

This is a red flag: The CGI spec fails to specify the current working
directory used when a CGI program is invoked, alas. So I'm obliged to
say that these relative paths may not resolve in the obvious way.

>         So, because I think the symlink system is stinky I would like to
> do:
>
> use lib '/usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/my';
>
> and
>
> require 'my_lib.pl';
>
>
>         but that causes the code to fail without error.

Could it also, separately, be loading './my_lib.pl'? Normally, require
won't load the same library twice; but it can if the code asks for it
under different names. Check %INC at runtime to see what actually
loaded.

Good luck with it!

--Tom Phoenix

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sun Jun 18 02:31:15 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 02:31:15 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] require './file' vs. require 'file'
In-Reply-To: <20060616200211.GH7880@gblx.net>
References: <20060616200211.GH7880@gblx.net>
Message-ID: <200606180231.15675.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Austin Schutz
# on Friday 16 June 2006 01:02 pm:

>use lib '/usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/my';

fair enough

>and
>
>require 'my_lib.pl';

no.  use my_lib;

  strace -o /tmp/stracefile perl -e "require './my_lib.pl'"
  grep my_lib.pl /tmp/stracefile | grep '^open' | sed 's/ .*//'

  strace -o /tmp/stracefile perl -e "require 'my_lib.pl'"
  grep my_lib.pl /tmp/stracefile | grep '^open' | sed 's/ .*//'

On my box, the output shows searches through hither and yon in the 
second case.

--Eric
-- 
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a
desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day.
--E.B. White
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From chromatic at wgz.org  Sun Jun 18 13:55:36 2006
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:55:36 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Audrey Tang Sat Jun 24th
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30606171101u735aed6bwb62c8bb3cf8f228a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2fa716eb0606161837r588f8ae2y553e01f975a9be58@mail.gmail.com>
	<659b9ea30606171101u735aed6bwb62c8bb3cf8f228a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200606181355.36902.chromatic@wgz.org>

On Saturday 17 June 2006 11:01, Chris Dawson wrote:

> Jifty is what I want to hear about as well.

Thirded.

-- c

From alan at clueserver.org  Sun Jun 18 17:12:50 2006
From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:12:50 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] ANNOUNCEMENT: Advanced Topics June 19th 2006 - SPECIAL
	GUEST	SPEAKERS
Message-ID: <1150675970.10165.7.camel@zowie.fnordora.org>

Portland Linux/Unix Group Advanced Topics

Title: The Eclipse on Linux Project Proposal

Speakers: Bjorn Freeman-Benson
          Ward Cunningham, both of the Eclipse Foundation

Abstract: 
After a brief introduction to the Eclipse Foundation and  
its project processes, the speakers will lead a roundtable  
conversation about the proposed "Eclipse on Linux Project". Attendees  
are encouraged to have a look at the proposal in advance.

        http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/linux-distro/


Usual meeting rules apply.


From tex at off.org  Sun Jun 18 20:36:02 2006
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:36:02 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] require './file' vs. require 'file'
In-Reply-To: <31086b240606171115n74fb60bfub12b1e20d6addd27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060616200211.GH7880@gblx.net>
	<31086b240606171115n74fb60bfub12b1e20d6addd27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060619033602.GL7880@gblx.net>

On Sat, Jun 17, 2006 at 11:15:11AM -0700, Tom Phoenix wrote:
> On 6/16/06, Austin Schutz <tex at off.org> wrote:
> 
> >        In the code there is:
> >
> >require './my_lib.pl';
> >
> >        where ./my_lib.pl is a symlink to ../my/my_lib.pl.
> >        The full path to the actual file is:
> >
> >/usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/my/my_lib.pl
> 
> This is a red flag: The CGI spec fails to specify the current working
> directory used when a CGI program is invoked, alas. So I'm obliged to
> say that these relative paths may not resolve in the obvious way.
> 

	The part that I can't figure out (but forgot to mention) is that
either way it is loading the same file (verified by inserting test output).
So I'm guessing that is causing some odd issue of being loaded at the
"correct" time.


> Could it also, separately, be loading './my_lib.pl'? Normally, require
> won't load the same library twice; but it can if the code asks for it
> under different names. Check %INC at runtime to see what actually
> loaded.
> 

	I'm not sure. But I can't figure out how it would matter if they
are inherently the same file.

	Austin

From tex at off.org  Sun Jun 18 20:48:43 2006
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:48:43 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] require './file' vs. require 'file'
In-Reply-To: <200606180231.15675.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <20060616200211.GH7880@gblx.net>
	<200606180231.15675.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <20060619034843.GN7880@gblx.net>

On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 02:31:15AM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> # from Austin Schutz
> # on Friday 16 June 2006 01:02 pm:
> 
> >use lib '/usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/my';
> 
> fair enough
> 
> >and
> >
> >require 'my_lib.pl';
> 
> no.  use my_lib;
> 
>   strace -o /tmp/stracefile perl -e "require './my_lib.pl'"
>   grep my_lib.pl /tmp/stracefile | grep '^open' | sed 's/ .*//'
> 
>   strace -o /tmp/stracefile perl -e "require 'my_lib.pl'"
>   grep my_lib.pl /tmp/stracefile | grep '^open' | sed 's/ .*//'
> 
> On my box, the output shows searches through hither and yon in the 
> second case.
> 

	Which it should - it should look through your INC path and all
associated goodies like auto/ for the file. Doing the use lib should have it
early in the path so it doesn't have to look very far though.
	But anyway, I've verified beyond any doubt they are still the same
file. For some sets of parameters of the program it helps to have the require
at the top of the list of required items. Other times it doesn't help.
	Also I haven't changed to 'use' because the original code didn't use
use.  I guess my feeling is that if I can't even get it to work without the
symlinks changing the syntax is going to get me in even deeper water. But who
knows - worth a try.

	Austin
	

From rootbeer at redcat.com  Sun Jun 18 21:16:50 2006
From: rootbeer at redcat.com (Tom Phoenix)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:50 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] require './file' vs. require 'file'
In-Reply-To: <20060619033602.GL7880@gblx.net>
References: <20060616200211.GH7880@gblx.net>
	<31086b240606171115n74fb60bfub12b1e20d6addd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060619033602.GL7880@gblx.net>
Message-ID: <31086b240606182116k1a773dcdg8ef359d43322ad37@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/18/06, Austin Schutz <tex at off.org> wrote:

>         The part that I can't figure out (but forgot to mention) is that
> either way it is loading the same file (verified by inserting test output).

Is all of %INC exactly the same in either case? That is, did
everything else load just as before? If it always loads the same
things, and doesn't load anything twice, I'm stumped.

--Tom Phoenix

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Jun 19 00:33:43 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:33:43 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] require './file' vs. require 'file'
In-Reply-To: <20060619034843.GN7880@gblx.net>
References: <20060616200211.GH7880@gblx.net>
	<200606180231.15675.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20060619034843.GN7880@gblx.net>
Message-ID: <200606190033.43943.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Austin Schutz
# on Sunday 18 June 2006 08:48 pm:

>But anyway, I've verified beyond any doubt they are still the same
>file. For some sets of parameters of the program it helps to have the
> require at the top of the list of required items. Other times it
> doesn't help. 

Is "my_lib.pl" doing something with __FILE__ or other wierdness?

Does it have a package declaration?

Does it use strict, warnings?

Depend on package/global variables from elsewhere?

I'm guessing "yes, no, no, no, yes".  If so, you might be best to just 
keep the symlink, and forget about it unless you want to dig in and 
make it a proper package.

You might be able to shed some light on it with a bit of poking.

  perl -MO=Xref,-r my_lib.pl
  perl -MO=Deparse my_lib.pl
  perl -w -Mstrict my_lib.pl

Perl::Critic?

--Eric
-- 
So malloc calls a timeout and starts rummaging around the free chain,
sorting things out, and merging adjacent small free blocks into larger
blocks. This takes 3 1/2 days.
--Joel Spolsky
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Jun 19 01:14:08 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:14:08 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] T-Shirts
Message-ID: <200606190114.08907.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

We had a brief discussion about these at the last meeting.  The two 
designs that have been submitted thus far both infringe on O'Reilly's 
camel trademark, so we need to try something else.

Tina sketched out a baseball shirt idea.  Now on the wiki.

  http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?shirts2006

We really need to get rolling on these if we're going to have them 
before oscon.  Marvin suggested that we have a vote this Wednesday, 
though I think we can stretch that until the beginning of the Jifty 
talk this Saturday.

Other designs welcome.  If everyone's into the baseball shirt, let me 
know and I'll do it in svg.  If anyone wants to volunteer for that, 
I'll buy your shirt.

Design submissions have been a bit slim.  Are you all not into shirts 
this year?  Since we don't have a new server setup (yet) for polls and 
such, I'll be really unscientific (expect 404.)  Click only once per 
shirt.

  http://ericwilhelm.homeip.net/_I_want_a_shirt
  http://ericwilhelm.homeip.net/_I_do_not_want_a_shirt

This is just for a general headcount.  If you're reasonably certain you 
want *some* pdx.pm shirt, please click accordingly.  If pdx.pm shirts 
just aren't your thing, click the second link.

Thanks,
Eric
-- 
Introducing change is like pulling off a bandage: the pain is a memory
almost as soon as you feel it.
--Paul Graham
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 19 02:13:34 2006
From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:13:34 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] T-Shirts
In-Reply-To: <200606190114.08907.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <20060619091334.23432.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com>

The two designs might infringe on the O'Reilly trademark, but have we thought about asking permission?  They've been liberal with its use in the past, so they might just agree.

Cheers,
Ovid

PS:  I still need someone to take over management of the mailing list.
 
-- If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send follow up questions to the list.
 
Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

----- Original Message ----
From: Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com>
To: pdx-pm-list at pm.org
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 9:14:08 AM
Subject: [Pdx-pm] T-Shirts

We had a brief discussion about these at the last meeting.  The two 
designs that have been submitted thus far both infringe on O'Reilly's 
camel trademark, so we need to try something else.

Tina sketched out a baseball shirt idea.  Now on the wiki.

  http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?shirts2006

We really need to get rolling on these if we're going to have them 
before oscon.  Marvin suggested that we have a vote this Wednesday, 
though I think we can stretch that until the beginning of the Jifty 
talk this Saturday.

Other designs welcome.  If everyone's into the baseball shirt, let me 
know and I'll do it in svg.  If anyone wants to volunteer for that, 
I'll buy your shirt.

Design submissions have been a bit slim.  Are you all not into shirts 
this year?  Since we don't have a new server setup (yet) for polls and 
such, I'll be really unscientific (expect 404.)  Click only once per 
shirt.

  http://ericwilhelm.homeip.net/_I_want_a_shirt
  http://ericwilhelm.homeip.net/_I_do_not_want_a_shirt

This is just for a general headcount.  If you're reasonably certain you 
want *some* pdx.pm shirt, please click accordingly.  If pdx.pm shirts 
just aren't your thing, click the second link.

Thanks,
Eric
-- 
Introducing change is like pulling off a bandage: the pain is a memory
almost as soon as you feel it.
--Paul Graham
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Pdx-pm-list mailing list
Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list





From allison at perl.org  Mon Jun 19 08:43:25 2006
From: allison at perl.org (Allison Randal)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:43:25 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] T-Shirts
In-Reply-To: <20060619091334.23432.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060619091334.23432.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4496C61D.4040105@perl.org>

Chances are good that O'Reilly would give us permission. But the
permissions department is notoriously slow, and may not get back to is
in reasonable time to get the shirts printed.

I like the baseball shirt design better than the others anyway. :)

Allison

Ovid wrote:
> The two designs might infringe on the O'Reilly trademark, but have we thought about asking permission?  They've been liberal with its use in the past, so they might just agree.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ovid
> 
> PS:  I still need someone to take over management of the mailing list.
>  
> -- If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send follow up questions to the list.
>  
> Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com>
> To: pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 9:14:08 AM
> Subject: [Pdx-pm] T-Shirts
> 
> We had a brief discussion about these at the last meeting.  The two 
> designs that have been submitted thus far both infringe on O'Reilly's 
> camel trademark, so we need to try something else.
> 
> Tina sketched out a baseball shirt idea.  Now on the wiki.
> 
>   http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?shirts2006
> 
> We really need to get rolling on these if we're going to have them 
> before oscon.  Marvin suggested that we have a vote this Wednesday, 
> though I think we can stretch that until the beginning of the Jifty 
> talk this Saturday.
> 
> Other designs welcome.  If everyone's into the baseball shirt, let me 
> know and I'll do it in svg.  If anyone wants to volunteer for that, 
> I'll buy your shirt.
> 
> Design submissions have been a bit slim.  Are you all not into shirts 
> this year?  Since we don't have a new server setup (yet) for polls and 
> such, I'll be really unscientific (expect 404.)  Click only once per 
> shirt.
> 
>   http://ericwilhelm.homeip.net/_I_want_a_shirt
>   http://ericwilhelm.homeip.net/_I_do_not_want_a_shirt
> 
> This is just for a general headcount.  If you're reasonably certain you 
> want *some* pdx.pm shirt, please click accordingly.  If pdx.pm shirts 
> just aren't your thing, click the second link.
> 
> Thanks,
> Eric

From alan at clueserver.org  Mon Jun 19 10:22:51 2006
From: alan at clueserver.org (alan)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:22:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] [PLUG] ANNOUNCEMENT: Advanced Topics June 19th 2006 -
 SPECIAL GUEST SPEAKERS
In-Reply-To: <1150675970.10165.7.camel@zowie.fnordora.org>
References: <1150675970.10165.7.camel@zowie.fnordora.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0606191020500.18124@blackbox.fnordora.org>

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006, Alan wrote:

> Portland Linux/Unix Group Advanced Topics
>
> Title: The Eclipse on Linux Project Proposal
>
> Speakers: Bjorn Freeman-Benson
>          Ward Cunningham, both of the Eclipse Foundation
>
> Abstract:
> After a brief introduction to the Eclipse Foundation and
> its project processes, the speakers will lead a roundtable
> conversation about the proposed "Eclipse on Linux Project". Attendees
> are encouraged to have a look at the proposal in advance.
>
>        http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/linux-distro/
>
>
> Usual meeting rules apply.

Forgot the place and time!

Tonight (June 19th) at 7pm
Jax
826 SW 2nd Avenue Portland, Oregon

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&addtohistory=&address=826+SW+2nd&city=Portland&state=OR&zipcode=&homesubmit=Get+Map


-- 
"Waiter! This lambchop tastes like an old sock!" - Sheri Lewis

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 22:54:41 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:54:41 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] a quick kwiki
Message-ID: <200606202254.41323.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Michael Rasmussen and Bruce Keeler and I met downtown tonight to setup 
kwiki on Bruce's box.

It is quite quick.

For now, you can only click around on it and be amazed at how responsive 
it is.  I've got a request for domain switchage and will hopefully get 
a chance to port some updated data from the old kwiki once that 
happens.  If you notice some weirdness, please ping me.

So, for now, only marvel at the speedy wonder and give applause for 
Bruce and Michael (as well as for Josh, Randall, and Christian for 
having kept the site running for this long.)

  this url will (I hope) self-destruct in 2 days:
    http://pdxpm.drangle.com/kwiki/

Again,
  new data goes on the old site.
  new data goes on the old site.
  new data goes on the old site... unless you want it to disappear.

--Eric
-- 
The only thing that could save UNIX at this late date would be a new $30
shareware version that runs on an unexpanded Commodore 64.
--Don Lancaster (1991)
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Fri Jun 23 11:07:16 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:16 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] REMINDER Audrey Tang on Jifty -- Sat Jun 24th 7pm
Message-ID: <200606231107.16649.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

                Tomorrow night.
                     7pm
                  Free Geek


Audrey Tang is the amazingly prolific hacker with a really long list of 
CPAN modules under her belt, an implementation of Perl6 in Haskell, and 
has recently been working on the nifty new Perl web framework "Jifty".

The talk will mostly be about Jifty, including its mind-bendingly nifty 
schema declaration syntax, ORM, application-level continuations, and 
other features that put Rails to shame.

The talk will be *this Saturday night* at Free Geek, followed by a 
migration to the Lucky Lab for beverages.

  http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi

  http://jifty.org/
  http://search.cpan.org/~autrijus/
  http://pugscode.org/

--Eric
-- 
Speak softly and carry a big carrot.
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sat Jun 24 09:18:43 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 09:18:43 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd:  OSDC 2006 - CFP closes in 2.5 weeks
Message-ID: <200606240918.43460.ewilhelm@cpan.org>


----- Forwarded message from Scott Penrose <scottp at dd.com.au> -----

G'day Perl Mongers!

        http://www.osdc.com.au/papers/cfp06.html

There are two and a half weeks to go to get your paper in for one of
 the best Australian conferences this year!

        The deadline for proposals is 12th July 2006.

The Open Source Developers' Conference is an Australian conference
designed for developers, by developers. It covers numerous programming
languages across a range of operating systems.  We're seeking papers on
Open Source languages, technologies, projects and tools as well as
topics
of interest to Open Source developers.

The conference will be held in Melbourne, Victoria (Monash University's
Caulfield Campus) from the 6th to the 8th of December, 2006.  Each day
includes three streams of talks, social events and is fully
catered with buffet lunch and morning, afternoon teas.

For a list of conference presentations from last year visit:

        http://osdc2005.cgpublisher.com/proposals/

If you have any questions, or have never submitted a paper proposal
before, please read our FAQ page at http://www.osdc.com.au/faq/
index.html
If you don't find an answer there, please contact richard <at>
osdc.com.au

To submit a proposal, follow the instructions at
http://www.osdc.com.au/papers/cfp06.html

This year we're also going to run a day of tutorials. See the CFP
for more information.

We are also seeking expressions of interest for people to be part of
 the OSDC 2006 Programme Committee.  The Committee's primary
responsibility is
assessing the proposals submitted by potential speakers.  Please email
richard <at> osdc.com.au if you are interested, indicating your open
source
development interests.

We look forward to hearing from you!

All the best,

        The OSDC 2006 committee.

-------------------------------------------------------

From john at digitalmx.com  Sat Jun 24 14:39:44 2006
From: john at digitalmx.com (John Springer)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:39:44 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] display email as web page
Message-ID: <98967E61-223D-435B-B423-93228D5B82B5@digitalmx.com>

I'm looking for a way to display an email message as a web page, like  
a webmail product would do.  But I'm not looking for full-blown web  
mail.  I just want to have an email as a file and view it over the  
web using something that's smart enough to manage the MIME and  
decoding and such.  I've searched and found lots of MIME toolkits on  
CPAN, but I can't find anything that just lets me get from a single  
email message to a nice web page view.

Any ideas?

What I'm trying to do is let a group of users build a kind of FAQ by  
archiving email messages with questions and answers.  I can manage  
saving and indexing the email, but I need an easy viewer.

--
   John Springer
   Somewhere in Portland
   Where it's probably raining.



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From russj at dimstar.net  Sat Jun 24 23:44:11 2006
From: russj at dimstar.net (Russ Johnson)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:44:11 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] display email as web page
In-Reply-To: <98967E61-223D-435B-B423-93228D5B82B5@digitalmx.com>
References: <98967E61-223D-435B-B423-93228D5B82B5@digitalmx.com>
Message-ID: <449E30BB.9000106@dimstar.net>

John Springer wrote:
> I'm looking for a way to display an email message as a web page, like 
> a webmail product would do.  But I'm not looking for full-blown web 
> mail.  I just want to have an email as a file and view it over the web 
> using something that's smart enough to manage the MIME and decoding 
> and such.  I've searched and found lots of MIME toolkits on CPAN, but 
> I can't find anything that just lets me get from a single email 
> message to a nice web page view.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> What I'm trying to do is let a group of users build a kind of FAQ by 
> archiving email messages with questions and answers.  I can manage 
> saving and indexing the email, but I need an easy viewer.
What are you using to look at the email in the first place?

I know in thunderbird (and many other clients) you can FILE>SAVE-AS and
select HTML. It then saves a nice file and all the details for viewing
in a browser.

Russ


From xrdawson at gmail.com  Sun Jun 25 01:51:06 2006
From: xrdawson at gmail.com (Chris Dawson)
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 01:51:06 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] REMINDER Audrey Tang on Jifty -- Sat Jun 24th 7pm
In-Reply-To: <200606231107.16649.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200606231107.16649.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <659b9ea30606250151o72ef0152n77a3cf9da32ec5ed@mail.gmail.com>

Smashing talk by Audrey tonight.  Podcast is here:

http://pdxpm.podasp.com/archive.html?pname=meetings.xml
http://podasp.com:8000/P/PD/PDX.pm/717.mp3.m3u

Chris

On 6/23/06, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com> wrote:
>                 Tomorrow night.
>                      7pm
>                   Free Geek
>
>
> Audrey Tang is the amazingly prolific hacker with a really long list of
> CPAN modules under her belt, an implementation of Perl6 in Haskell, and
> has recently been working on the nifty new Perl web framework "Jifty".
>
> The talk will mostly be about Jifty, including its mind-bendingly nifty
> schema declaration syntax, ORM, application-level continuations, and
> other features that put Rails to shame.
>
> The talk will be *this Saturday night* at Free Geek, followed by a
> migration to the Lucky Lab for beverages.
>
>   http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi
>
>   http://jifty.org/
>   http://search.cpan.org/~autrijus/
>   http://pugscode.org/
>
> --Eric
> --
> Speak softly and carry a big carrot.
> ---------------------------------------------------
>     http://scratchcomputing.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>

From selena at chrisking.com  Mon Jun 26 09:53:43 2006
From: selena at chrisking.com (Selena Deckelmann)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:53:43 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] ANNOUNCEMENT: Portland PostgreSQL Users Group starting
Message-ID: <6b5c2918d497d446cd53b3c8caf4f7ad@chrisking.com>


The Portland PostgreSQL Users Group is recruiting!

Don't know what PostgreSQL is?  Go to http://www.postgresql.org/

We have a mailing list (send email to majordomo at postgresql.org, with 
"subscribe pdxpug" in the BODY of the message), and a website - 
http://pugs.postgresql.org/pdx/ - and we need a few more people.

Go ahead and subscribe to the mailing list to find out what we're up 
to!  We have a couple local experts lined up for talks, and are gearing 
up for a meeting in July. Subjects for talks might include DOMAINS, 
PL/pgSQL, DBD::Pg (my Perl bias is starting to show..).

A little bit about me --

I am a UNIX systems administrator with about 7 years of experience and 
I started working with PostgreSQL last year.  I'm in the middle of 
implementing an ERP package that uses pgSQL as its backend. If you're 
going to OSCON, I'll be helping staff the pgSQL booth, so you can stop 
by and say hello!

-selena




From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Jun 26 14:53:05 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:53:05 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] T-Shirts -- votes are (nearly) in
In-Reply-To: <200606190114.08907.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200606190114.08907.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <200606261453.05362.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Q:  When are designs due?
A:  Now.  Right now.

Q:  Votes?
A:  Now.  Right now.

This vote was about whether you want *any* shirt.  The ballot:

  http://ericwilhelm.homeip.net/_I_want_a_shirt
  http://ericwilhelm.homeip.net/_I_do_not_want_a_shirt

# poetic trim # what I said # 1am:

>that we vote Wednesday,
>though stretch until beginning Saturday.
>svg --?volunteer. I'll buy your shirt.
>
>submissions slim
>really unscientific (404) click Only
>just aren't your thing

A:  0 (--++)
B:  1 (+)
C:  1 (+)
D:  0 (+-)
E: -1 (-)
F:  1 (+)
G:  1 (+)
H:  1 (+)
I:  1 (+)
6 shirts, 9 voters, 13 votes

--Eric
-- 
"But as to modern architecture, let us drop it and let us take
modernistic out and shoot it at sunrise."
--F.L. Wright
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Mon Jun 26 15:33:56 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:33:56 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] T-Shirts -- votes are (nearly) in
In-Reply-To: <200606261453.05362.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200606190114.08907.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<200606261453.05362.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <200606261533.56391.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from someone, 03:07 pm:

>both 404s for me.

That was the plan.  I'm just counting clicks.  Did you want me to make 
it harder to vote? :-)

# from Eric Wilhelm
# on Monday 26 June 2006 02:53 pm:

>The ballot:
>
>? http://ericwilhelm.homeip.net/_I_want_a_shirt
>? http://ericwilhelm.homeip.net/_I_do_not_want_a_shirt
>
># poetic trim # what I said # 1am:
>>really unscientific (404) click Only

-- 
We who cut mere stones must always be envisioning cathedrals.
--Quarry worker's creed
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From tex at off.org  Tue Jun 27 15:51:07 2006
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:51:07 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] REMINDER Audrey Tang on Jifty -- Sat Jun 24th 7pm
In-Reply-To: <659b9ea30606250151o72ef0152n77a3cf9da32ec5ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200606231107.16649.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<659b9ea30606250151o72ef0152n77a3cf9da32ec5ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060627225107.GQ8590@gblx.net>

On Sun, Jun 25, 2006 at 01:51:06AM -0700, Chris Dawson wrote:
> Smashing talk by Audrey tonight.  Podcast is here:
> 
> http://pdxpm.podasp.com/archive.html?pname=meetings.xml
> http://podasp.com:8000/P/PD/PDX.pm/717.mp3.m3u
> 

	Cool! Thank you for capturing it for podcasting!

	Austin

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Wed Jun 28 10:19:47 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:19:47 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] July meeting
Message-ID: <200606281019.48047.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Hi all,

The July meeting would typically be two weeks from tonight.  We could:

  a:  do it
  b:  meet the week(end?) before OSCON
  c:  meet during OSCON
  d:  1 or more of the above

I've talked to a couple of people about live code reviews and/or 
hackfests.  This would be the likely "topic" for (a).

The review/hackfest prospects are:

  1.  fut - an IPTables rule daemon
  2.  Device::SerialPort - SerialPort functions.

If there's interest in a hackfest, I'll let the authors get involved in 
the discussion.  My take is that the focus would be on:

  fut:
    a test plan for network/firewall code
    structural/coding practice review/suggestions
  D::SP
    Testing hardware-interaction code.
    Make cpan install work.

As for (b), (c), and/or (d) -- you get to propose and/or contact the 
visiting dignitary of your choice.

I believe there might be one or two among us who will be speaking at 
OSCON and would like to make a trial-run of (b).  Given the success of 
last Saturday's meeting, weekends appear to be at least somewhat 
workable.

--Eric
-- 
But as soon as you hear the Doppler shift dropping in pitch, you know
that they're probably going to miss your house, because if they were on
a collision course with your house, the pitch would stay the same until
impact. As I said, that's one's subtle.
--Larry Wall
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From krisb at ring.org  Thu Jun 29 13:16:22 2006
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 13:16:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] HTTP::Server::Simple question
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0606291306021.23850-100000@ender.ring.org>


I am porting a CGI script from a web server to HTTP::Server::Simple, and
so far it mostly works (I am agravating some Firefox bug in the
HTTP::Server::Simple version that causes problems for
document.getElementsByName but I worked around it).  The final big piece
that I can't get working is a simple file download option to let the users
get their data in Excel (I am just sending them a CSV file right now)

This worked in the old CGI.pm code:
===========================================
use CGI::Pretty qw/:standard/;
...
if(param("excel")) {
	print header(-type=>'application/vnd.ms-excel',-attachment=>'binswitch.csv'),
		$x->excel_binswitch($prog1options[0],$locationoptions[0],$prog2options[0],$hardbin,\@debuglog);
} else {
===========================================

This does not work in the new HTTP::Server::Simple code:
===========================================
if($q->param("excel")) {
	print $q->header(-type=>'application/vnd.ms-excel',-attachment=>'binswitch.csv'),
		excel_binswitch($binswitchdata);
} else {
===========================================

instead, firefox prints up a page with this source:
===========================================
Content-Disposition:
attachment;
filename="binswitch.csv"
Content-Type:
application/vnd.ms-excel

s1/s2,1,2,3
1,a,b,c
2,f,e,d
3,g,h,i
===========================================
(note the testing data)

Does anyone know if there are some headers that HTTP::Server::Simple
prints that I need to stop or change?

Thanks.

-Kris


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Fri Jun 30 16:57:38 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:57:38 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] you're getting a shirt
Message-ID: <200606301657.38967.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

Q:  What will the shirts look like?
A:  The jersey. ( http://www.bella.com/items.asp?deptid=20&itemid=74 )

  (more on the look below)

Q:  How much will they cost?
A:  No more than $25.

Q:  Can I do the drawing and module list in SVG and get a free shirt?
A:  Yes.  make it two

Q:  When will I see the final design?
A:  As soon as I get help or time (free shirt!  no, two!)

Q:  How do I get one (or more) in my size?
A:  Send me an e-mail (see below for proper formatting)

Q:  When is the deadline?
A:  Now.  OK... Tuesday.  July 4th.

The votes tallies are below.  K,O, and P succumbed to the mass confusion 
(yeah, that vote could have been more user-friendly) and also voted on 
a link that wasn't an option.  So, 16 looks like a decent number.

I'll add a bit of optimism and go with 25, which would get us into a 
decent price bracket.

-------------------------------
The Design:

Since we have no other designs to work with, I'm running with the 
jersey.  If another design appears and gets a lot of buzz, we'll do 
that instead.  Until then...

A mockup of the front:
  http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/mockup.png

That might get some color (light grey?) in the oval.  I can do design, 
but I'm retarded at color so I stick to grayscale.  Thoughts on the 
shirt color welcome too.

The back would be:

   #!/bin/pdx

      06

(with the numbers big and made of ascii containing our module list.)

-------------------------------
Vote tallies:

A:  0 (--++)
B:  1 (+)
C:  1 (+)
D:  0 (+-)
E: -1 (-)
F:  1 (+)
G:  1 (+)
H:  1 (++-)
I:  1 (+)
J:  1 (+)
K:  1 (+-+)
L:  0 (+-)
M:  1 (+)
N:  2 (++)
O:  1 (+)
P:  0 (+-)
Q:  1 (+)
R:  1 (+)
S:  1 (+)
T:  1 (+)
16 shirts, 20 voters, 31 votes

-------------------------------
How to order:

Send valid YAML.  If you want it shipped, I'll contact you to make 
arrangements and can take credit cards via paypal.  Expect to pay maybe 
$10 for shipping (I haven't looked into it.)

echo '{
quantity => {S => 0,
M => 0,
L => 0,
X => 0,
XL => 0,
XXL => 0,
},
name => "your name here",
address => "if you want it shipped",
pickup => "at next meeting or elsewhere",
}' | perl -MYAML -e 'print Dump(eval(join("", <>)));'

--Eric
-- 
"It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object to realize that you are 
in a hurry."
--Ralph's Observation
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------


From jkeroes at eli.net  Fri Jun 30 17:38:23 2006
From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 17:38:23 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] you're getting a shirt
In-Reply-To: <200606301657.38967.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200606301657.38967.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <3775E687-8B3E-4B98-894E-C851C55C948A@eli.net>


#!/usr/pdx/2006

better?

On Jun 30, 2006, at 4:57 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> The back would be:
>
>    #!/bin/pdx


From mikeraz at patch.com  Fri Jun 30 17:55:29 2006
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 17:55:29 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] you're getting a shirt
In-Reply-To: <3775E687-8B3E-4B98-894E-C851C55C948A@eli.net>
References: <200606301657.38967.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<3775E687-8B3E-4B98-894E-C851C55C948A@eli.net>
Message-ID: <20060701005529.GC12655@patch.com>

Joshua Keroes wrote:
> 
> #!/usr/pdx/2006
> better?


or 

  use lib '/usr/lib/pdx/2006';



> On Jun 30, 2006, at 4:57 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> > The back would be:
> >
> >    #!/bin/pdx

-- 
      Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
    Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
http://www.patch.com/words/ or http://fut.patch.com/ 
  The fortune cookie says:
Las v?rgenes pasan muchas navidades, pero ninguna noche buena.
		-- Graffiti. 


From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Fri Jun 30 18:46:11 2006
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 18:46:11 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] you're getting a shirt
In-Reply-To: <3775E687-8B3E-4B98-894E-C851C55C948A@eli.net>
References: <200606301657.38967.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<3775E687-8B3E-4B98-894E-C851C55C948A@eli.net>
Message-ID: <200606301846.11739.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Joshua Keroes
# on Friday 30 June 2006 05:38 pm:

>#!/usr/pdx/2006
>
>better?
>
>On Jun 30, 2006, at 4:57 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
>> The back would be:
>>
>> ? ?#!/bin/pdx

oops.  that was supposed to be

  #!/usr/bin/pdx
 or
  #!/usr/bin/pdx/perl
 or
  #!/usr/local/pdx/perl

but maybe we're important enough to install on the base system :-)

But, if we put 2006 in the shebang, what do we do with the huge number 
area?

(this is without the module list/text stuff yet)

  http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/shirtback1.png

But maybe have the url...
  http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/shirtback2.png

Or even:
  http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/shirtback3.png

Sorry to burden everyone with options.  If there's no strong consensus, 
I'll pick something and hope it's right.

BTW, if you really want to get involved, call me.

--Eric
-- 
Office:  (503) 643-1684
Mobile:  (503) 880-4750

http://scratchcomputing.com