From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 15:05:24 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 15:05:24 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] all your authors are belong to us Message-ID: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> I'm digging through 01mailrc.txt, 02packages.details.txt, and last year's module list trying to sort out the pause ID's of our locals. Note: if you're not local, but still consider yourself a part of pdx.pm and would therefore like your modules listed on our shirt, we will be happy to do so. Remember though that we don't want to take credit for everything you've done without your permission (seems posting a message here isn't quite permission :-) First, I've found a few modules in last year's list that I believe were there accidentally. (I can't find any specific attribution in a quick once-over.) Unless you speak up, they will be removed: CGI::Application CGI::Application::Plugin::ConfigAuto CGI::Application::Plugin::DBH CGI::Application::Plugin::ValidateRM CGI::Session::PureSQL CGI::Uploader Data::FormValidator Data::FormValidator::Util::HTML Test::XML::Valid Net::ISCABBS Apache::AxKit::Language::LibXSLTEnhanced Apache::AxKit::Language::Svg2AnyFormat Apache::AxKit::Language::Svg2AnyFormat Apache::AxKit::Provider::RDBMS Image::LibRSVG Other than those, I start with the entire last year's module list and build from there. Now, to update the list, I've compiled the attached list of pause ID's using various checks on name and/or e-mail address. (If anyone wants the code, just ask.) The following have posted on the list, but I don't believe they live here (anymore.) As I said, we won't take credit for your modules unless you want us to. ADAMK PETDANCE INGY BARBIE SHLOMIF SISYPHUS Ingy, and other alumnus: I plan to continue using all of the modules from last year's list, but won't add anything you've written since then unless you ask me to put your pause ID in the list. If your ID is not on the attached list, or if your ID is on the list and you would like it removed please get it to me. Thanks, Eric -- "If you dig it, it's yours." --An old village poet (via Al Pacino) --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- AARONJJ ALANSTEP AMONSEN ARANDAL ASAVIGE AUSCHUTZ BRUCEK BRYCE BTP CDAWSON CHROMATIC CLINT CMEYER COLINK CREAMYG DWHEELER EWILHELM HOLLYKING IBURRELL JHOBLITT JLABOVITZ JLAVALLEE JMCADA JOSHUA JOUKE JZUCKER KHAMAR KMELTZ KYLED LEGLESS MARKOV MERLYN MMORGAN MSCHWERN OVID PHOENIX RDB SBONDS SZABGAB TCAINE THINC WILCO From andy at petdance.com Sat Jul 1 15:13:23 2006 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 17:13:23 -0500 Subject: [Pdx-pm] all your authors are belong to us In-Reply-To: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <2BA37F41-E50E-49AC-87B7-08A6C167EC19@petdance.com> > PETDANCE Bah! Chicago.PM REPRESENT! -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 17:32:06 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 17:32:06 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] all your authors are belong to us In-Reply-To: <2BA37F41-E50E-49AC-87B7-08A6C167EC19@petdance.com> References: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <2BA37F41-E50E-49AC-87B7-08A6C167EC19@petdance.com> Message-ID: <200607011732.07169.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Andy Lester # on Saturday 01 July 2006 03:13 pm: >> PETDANCE > >Bah! Chicago.PM REPRESENT! Should I interpret that as "please list my modules on your t-shirt" ? I mean, I'm cool with you representing... I just can't tell from your choice of font whether you would like to represent with no or yes :-) As for the rest of the authors on that list. My 'grep From:' in the maildir should have just been going to the headers. I'll be narrowing it down to only those who have actually posted here. --Eric -- "Insert random misquote here" --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 18:32:50 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:32:50 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] module list, id list Message-ID: <200607011832.50635.ewilhelm@cpan.org> see attached module list and ID list The module list is generated from last year's plus all modules by everyone in the ID list. If you've worked on modules that aren't listed, please let me know. # from Eric Wilhelm # on Saturday 01 July 2006 05:32 pm: >As for the rest of the authors on that list. My 'grep From:' in the >maildir should have just been going to the headers. I'll be narrowing >it down to only those who have actually posted here. OK, now we won't be listing modules of people who had their messages forwarded to the list. A few authors were also scheduled to suffer the wrath of my other various bugs. The posters detected who will not be listed (unless you request it) are as follows. INGY JMCADA JOUKE PETDANCE SHLOMIF SISYPHUS AMONSEN Comparing this to the list of authors derived by last year's list, the following dozen have either published their first module this year or got missed last year. So, we owe them congratulations or apology :-) AARONJJ ASAVIGE BRYCE CDAWSON COLINK CREAMYG JLAVALLEE JZUCKER KYLED PHOENIX RDB TCAINE I have to say I'm impressed. 34 authors have 714 modules on CPAN! --Eric -- Speak softly and carry a big carrot. --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- AARONJJ ARANDAL ASAVIGE AUSCHUTZ BRUCEK BRYCE BTP CDAWSON CHROMATIC CLINT COLINK CREAMYG DWHEELER EWILHELM HOLLYKING IBURRELL JHOBLITT JLABOVITZ JLAVALLEE JOSHUA JZUCKER KHAMAR KYLED LEGLESS MERLYN MMORGAN MSCHWERN PHOENIX RDB SBONDS TCAINE THINC WILCO OVID -------------- next part -------------- AI::NeuralNet::Simple AI::Prolog AI::Prolog::ChoicePoint AI::Prolog::Engine AI::Prolog::Engine::Primitives AI::Prolog::KnowledgeBase AI::Prolog::Parser AI::Prolog::Parser::PreProcessor AI::Prolog::Parser::PreProcessor::Math AI::Prolog::Term AI::Prolog::Term::Cut 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Text::WordDiff::HTML Tie::Cache::LRU Tie::Cache::LRU::Array Tie::Cache::LRU::LinkedList Tie::Cache::LRU::Virtual Tie::Math Tie::VecArray Time::Piece::ISO Tree::Base Tree::Smart UNIVERSAL::can UNIVERSAL::exports UNIVERSAL::isa UNIVERSAL::require VCS::SaVeS WWW::PkgFind WebService::TestSystem WebService::TestSystem::Host WebService::TestSystem::Metrics WebService::TestSystem::Request WebService::TicketAuth WebService::TicketAuth::DBI Widget::Meta XML::Atom::SimpleFeed XMail::Ctrl XPlanner XPlanner::Iteration XPlanner::Object XPlanner::Person XPlanner::Project XPlanner::Story YAML::MLDBM YAML::Parser::Syck Yahoo::Marketing Yahoo::Marketing::Account Yahoo::Marketing::AccountService Yahoo::Marketing::Ad Yahoo::Marketing::AdEditorialReasons Yahoo::Marketing::AdGroup Yahoo::Marketing::AdGroupOptimizationGuidelines Yahoo::Marketing::AdGroupService Yahoo::Marketing::AdService Yahoo::Marketing::Address Yahoo::Marketing::AmbiguousGeoMatch Yahoo::Marketing::ApiFault Yahoo::Marketing::Authorization Yahoo::Marketing::BasicReportRequest Yahoo::Marketing::BasicReportService Yahoo::Marketing::BidInformation Yahoo::Marketing::BidInformationService Yahoo::Marketing::BucketType Yahoo::Marketing::BudgetingService Yahoo::Marketing::Campaign Yahoo::Marketing::CampaignOptimizationGuidelines Yahoo::Marketing::CampaignService Yahoo::Marketing::Capability Yahoo::Marketing::ComplexType Yahoo::Marketing::CreditCardInfo Yahoo::Marketing::ErrorType Yahoo::Marketing::ExcludedWord Yahoo::Marketing::ExcludedWordsService Yahoo::Marketing::FileOutputFormat Yahoo::Marketing::ForecastKeyword Yahoo::Marketing::ForecastKeywordResponse Yahoo::Marketing::ForecastRequestData Yahoo::Marketing::ForecastResponse Yahoo::Marketing::ForecastResponseData Yahoo::Marketing::ForecastService Yahoo::Marketing::Keyword Yahoo::Marketing::KeywordOptimizationGuidelines Yahoo::Marketing::KeywordRejectionReasons Yahoo::Marketing::KeywordResearchService Yahoo::Marketing::KeywordService Yahoo::Marketing::LocationService Yahoo::Marketing::MasterAccount Yahoo::Marketing::MasterAccountService Yahoo::Marketing::PageRelatedKeywordRequestType Yahoo::Marketing::PaymentMethodInfo Yahoo::Marketing::PendingAd Yahoo::Marketing::PendingKeyword Yahoo::Marketing::RangeDefinitionRequestType Yahoo::Marketing::RangeDefinitionResponseType Yahoo::Marketing::RangeDefinitionType Yahoo::Marketing::RangeValueType Yahoo::Marketing::RelatedKeywordRequestType Yahoo::Marketing::RelatedKeywordResponseType Yahoo::Marketing::RelatedKeywordType Yahoo::Marketing::ReportInfo Yahoo::Marketing::ResponseStatusType Yahoo::Marketing::Role Yahoo::Marketing::Service Yahoo::Marketing::SetGeographicLocationResponse Yahoo::Marketing::User Yahoo::Marketing::UserAuthorization Yahoo::Marketing::UserManagementService aliased base fields foundation loose mixin mixin::with private protected public uny2k your From david at kineticode.com Sat Jul 1 19:46:59 2006 From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:46:59 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] module list, id list In-Reply-To: <200607011832.50635.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607011832.50635.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: On Jul 1, 2006, at 18:32, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > The posters detected who will not be listed (unless you request it) > are > as follows. > > INGY > JMCADA > JOUKE > PETDANCE > SHLOMIF > SISYPHUS > AMONSEN Is OVID still considered to be a PDX.pmer? Sorry Ovid. :-) D From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 21:21:57 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:21:57 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] module list, id list In-Reply-To: References: <200607011832.50635.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <200607012121.57806.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from David Wheeler # on Saturday 01 July 2006 07:46 pm: >Is OVID still considered to be a PDX.pmer? > >Sorry Ovid. :-) Just to be clear. You can be part of the shirt if you don't live here. But, for purposes of bragging about which modules were born in Portland, it's only fair to remove the alumni from the ID list after they've left. So, here's the run-down. Any of which can be changed on request. 1. The modules that were in the list stay in the list. 2. The ID list should be kept current. 3. Each year, we'll generate the list of new modules from the ID list. In Ovid's case (recently departed alumnus), his modules from the past year still count. What he wants us to do next year is up to him, but the default is to remove him from the main ID list. So, his next project won't be on next year's list unless he asks us to keep him on the ID list. Sound fair? We should probably keep a table on the kwiki or something. Chasing down pause ID's from a dozen variations on name and email is hard. --Eric -- Atavism n: The recurrence of any peculiarity or disease of an ancestor in a subsequent generation, usually due to genetic recombination. --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From andy at petdance.com Sat Jul 1 21:35:32 2006 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:35:32 -0500 Subject: [Pdx-pm] all your authors are belong to us In-Reply-To: <200607011732.07169.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <2BA37F41-E50E-49AC-87B7-08A6C167EC19@petdance.com> <200607011732.07169.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <90BA5672-9F32-4F6E-B14F-472B245D0563@petdance.com> On Jul 1, 2006, at 7:32 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > # from Andy Lester > # on Saturday 01 July 2006 03:13 pm: > >>> PETDANCE >> >> Bah! Chicago.PM REPRESENT! > > Should I interpret that as "please list my modules on your t-shirt" ? Oh, no, I just meant "I'm definitely not Portland." -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From ingy at ttul.org Sat Jul 1 21:15:17 2006 From: ingy at ttul.org (Ingy dot Net) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:15:17 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] all your authors are belong to us In-Reply-To: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <20060702041517.GA15772@ttul.org> On 01/07/06 15:05 -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > I'm digging through 01mailrc.txt, 02packages.details.txt, and last > year's module list trying to sort out the pause ID's of our locals. > > Note: if you're not local, but still consider yourself a part of pdx.pm > and would therefore like your modules listed on our shirt, we will be > happy to do so. Remember though that we don't want to take credit for > everything you've done without your permission (seems posting a message > here isn't quite permission :-) > > First, I've found a few modules in last year's list that I believe were > there accidentally. (I can't find any specific attribution in a quick > once-over.) Unless you speak up, they will be removed: > > CGI::Application > CGI::Application::Plugin::ConfigAuto > CGI::Application::Plugin::DBH > CGI::Application::Plugin::ValidateRM > CGI::Session::PureSQL > CGI::Uploader > Data::FormValidator > Data::FormValidator::Util::HTML > Test::XML::Valid > Net::ISCABBS > Apache::AxKit::Language::LibXSLTEnhanced > Apache::AxKit::Language::Svg2AnyFormat > Apache::AxKit::Language::Svg2AnyFormat > Apache::AxKit::Provider::RDBMS > Image::LibRSVG > > Other than those, I start with the entire last year's module list and > build from there. > > Now, to update the list, I've compiled the attached list of pause ID's > using various checks on name and/or e-mail address. (If anyone wants > the code, just ask.) > > The following have posted on the list, but I don't believe they live > here (anymore.) As I said, we won't take credit for your modules > unless you want us to. > > ADAMK > PETDANCE > INGY > BARBIE > SHLOMIF > SISYPHUS > > Ingy, and other alumnus: I plan to continue using all of the modules > from last year's list, but won't add anything you've written since then > unless you ask me to put your pause ID in the list. My heart is always in pdx, even when my feet are not. Feel free to call me a native. I actually do have a mailing address in Portland still and I have spent more than a week living there total in 2006 so far. > > If your ID is not on the attached list, or if your ID is on the list and > you would like it removed please get it to me. > > Thanks, > Eric > -- > "If you dig it, it's yours." > --An old village poet (via Al Pacino) > --------------------------------------------------- > http://scratchcomputing.com > --------------------------------------------------- > AARONJJ > ALANSTEP > AMONSEN > ARANDAL > ASAVIGE > AUSCHUTZ > BRUCEK > BRYCE > BTP > CDAWSON > CHROMATIC > CLINT > CMEYER > COLINK > CREAMYG > DWHEELER > EWILHELM > HOLLYKING > IBURRELL > JHOBLITT > JLABOVITZ > JLAVALLEE > JMCADA > JOSHUA > JOUKE > JZUCKER > KHAMAR > KMELTZ > KYLED > LEGLESS > MARKOV > MERLYN > MMORGAN > MSCHWERN > OVID > PHOENIX > RDB > SBONDS > SZABGAB > TCAINE > THINC > WILCO > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 02:38:09 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 02:38:09 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Shirts Message-ID: <200607020238.09462.ewilhelm@cpan.org> bit of cleanup on the logo. http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/logo-trace3.png http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/logo-trace3.svg --Eric -- "It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object to realize that you are in a hurry." --Ralph's Observation --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From pdxperl at langenberg.com Sun Jul 2 14:22:30 2006 From: pdxperl at langenberg.com (Chuck Langenberg) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 14:22:30 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Shirts References: <200607020238.09462.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <001701c69e1d$aa1ee730$4100a8c0@chuck4> I'd like to find a list of screen printing providers, Portland and/or web based, who will screenprint artwork onto vellum paper. It may make sense if you're buying 1-12, and you want the ability to do future small batches. It probaly wouldn't make sense if you're buying 100 of the same thing at one time. Vellum enables you to buy screen printed artwork in larger quantities, then instantly iron them onto multiple types & sizes of garments. Although it may cost more, the flexability may be increased when lead times & order sizes are considered. And the quality of screen printing is superior to ironing inkjet to cloth, which fades when washed. > Eric Wilhelm said... > bit of cleanup on the logo. > > http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/logo-trace3.png > http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/logo-trace3.svg From db at kavod.com Sun Jul 2 17:27:18 2006 From: db at kavod.com (Daniel Browning) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 17:27:18 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] all your authors are belong to us In-Reply-To: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <20060703002718.GA8381@kavod.com> * Eric Wilhelm [2006-07-01 15:06]: > If your ID is not on the attached list, or if your ID is on the list and > you would like it removed please get it to me. I've been to one meeting, and I've lurked the mailing list for a long time now, so I think I count: DBROWNING. :-) I live in Vancouver, but don't hold that against me: I'm taking pills for it. -- Daniel Browning - Kavod Technologies. Random Fortune: Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after. From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 19:45:57 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 19:45:57 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Shirts (numerified module list) Message-ID: <200607021945.57314.ewilhelm@cpan.org> The module list is done. http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/modules_06.svg http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/modules_06.png http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/ascii.txt We're now at 899 modules. If you're planning on publishing one to round that out to 900, you'll have to let me know since I'm using data from yesterday's CPAN. If you're not on here yet, let me know. Takes about 5s to regen. --Eric -- Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. --Napoleon Bonaparte --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From chromatic at wgz.org Sun Jul 2 20:03:39 2006 From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:03:39 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Shirts (numerified module list) In-Reply-To: <200607021945.57314.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607021945.57314.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <200607022003.40057.chromatic@wgz.org> On Sunday 02 July 2006 19:45, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > The module list is done. > > http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/modules_06.svg > http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/modules_06.png > http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/ascii.txt > > We're now at 899 modules. If you're planning on publishing one to round > that out to 900, you'll have to let me know since I'm using data from > yesterday's CPAN. > > If you're not on here yet, let me know. Takes about 5s to regen. Throw Devel::TraceUse in there and I'll get to it this week. -- c From chromatic at wgz.org Sun Jul 2 20:03:39 2006 From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:03:39 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Shirts (numerified module list) In-Reply-To: <200607021945.57314.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607021945.57314.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <200607022003.40057.chromatic@wgz.org> On Sunday 02 July 2006 19:45, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > The module list is done. > > http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/modules_06.svg > http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/modules_06.png > http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/ascii.txt > > We're now at 899 modules. If you're planning on publishing one to round > that out to 900, you'll have to let me know since I'm using data from > yesterday's CPAN. > > If you're not on here yet, let me know. Takes about 5s to regen. Throw Devel::TraceUse in there and I'll get to it this week. -- c From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 20:27:27 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:27:27 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Shirts (numerified module list) In-Reply-To: <200607022003.40057.chromatic@wgz.org> References: <200607021945.57314.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <200607022003.40057.chromatic@wgz.org> Message-ID: <200607022027.28098.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from chromatic # on Sunday 02 July 2006 08:03 pm: >>Takes about 5s to regen. > >Throw Devel::TraceUse in there and I'll get to it this week. done. The latency is a little higher than 5s. . o O (procmail?) --Eric -- "Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse." --Murphy's Corollary --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 01:33:01 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 01:33:01 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] new site is live (but a bit crippled) Message-ID: <200607030133.01631.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Hi all, You might notice that you can't edit the wiki and there are no recent changes. I'm sure there are other features that you were hoping to use to pass the Monday before the holiday, but you'll just have to wait. Thanks, Eric -- Cult: A small, unpopular religion. Religion: A large, popular cult. -- Unknown --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 02:12:47 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 02:12:47 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] new site is live In-Reply-To: <200607030133.01631.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607030133.01631.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <200607030212.47597.ewilhelm@cpan.org> "It works better if you plug it in!" --Sattinger's Law --------------------------------------------------- http://pdx.pm.org --------------------------------------------------- From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Mon Jul 3 06:08:08 2006 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] module list, id list In-Reply-To: <200607012121.57806.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <20060703130808.22870.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- From: Eric Wilhelm > In Ovid's case (recently departed alumnus), his modules from the past > year still count. What he wants us to do next year is up to him, but > the default is to remove him from the main ID list. So, his next > project won't be on next year's list unless he asks us to keep him on > the ID list. Well, barring something unusual, it's unlikely I'll be moving back to Portland, though like Ingy, my heart will always be there. Feel free to handle my modules however you wish. If you wish to call me a Portlander even if I'm not, so be it :) Cheers, Ovid From jkeroes at eli.net Mon Jul 3 11:51:09 2006 From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:51:09 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] all your authors are belong to us In-Reply-To: <20060702041517.GA15772@ttul.org> References: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <20060702041517.GA15772@ttul.org> Message-ID: <3CF36AF0-72BA-4FEB-95F1-F5088EE2AD34@eli.net> TCAINE is in Seattle now. CLINT is in the Middle-of-nowhere, WA but he still self-identifies as a Portlander. OVID - as we all know - is in Nottingham, UK On Jul 1, 2006, at 9:15 PM, Ingy dot Net wrote > >> AARONJJ >> ALANSTEP >> AMONSEN >> ARANDAL >> ASAVIGE >> AUSCHUTZ >> BRUCEK >> BRYCE >> BTP >> CDAWSON >> CHROMATIC >> CLINT >> CMEYER >> COLINK >> CREAMYG >> DWHEELER >> EWILHELM >> HOLLYKING >> IBURRELL >> JHOBLITT >> JLABOVITZ >> JLAVALLEE >> JMCADA >> JOSHUA >> JOUKE >> JZUCKER >> KHAMAR >> KMELTZ >> KYLED >> LEGLESS >> MARKOV >> MERLYN >> MMORGAN >> MSCHWERN >> OVID >> PHOENIX >> RDB >> SBONDS >> SZABGAB >> TCAINE >> THINC >> WILCO > >> _______________________________________________ >> Pdx-pm-list mailing list >> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list From lemming at quirkyqatz.com Mon Jul 3 12:08:49 2006 From: lemming at quirkyqatz.com (Mark Morgan) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 12:08:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Pdx-pm] all your authors are belong to us In-Reply-To: <3CF36AF0-72BA-4FEB-95F1-F5088EE2AD34@eli.net> References: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <20060702041517.GA15772@ttul.org> <3CF36AF0-72BA-4FEB-95F1-F5088EE2AD34@eli.net> Message-ID: <1232.63.77.108.13.1151953729.squirrel@webmail9.pair.com> Well, seeing MMORGAN in the list confused me, since I don't have any modules listed. Drat this having a common name... -Mark "lemming" Morgan Joshua Keroes wrote: > > TCAINE is in Seattle now. > CLINT is in the Middle-of-nowhere, WA but he still self-identifies as > a Portlander. > OVID - as we all know - is in Nottingham, UK > > On Jul 1, 2006, at 9:15 PM, Ingy dot Net wrote >> >>> AARONJJ >>> ALANSTEP >>> AMONSEN >>> ARANDAL >>> ASAVIGE >>> AUSCHUTZ >>> BRUCEK >>> BRYCE >>> BTP >>> CDAWSON >>> CHROMATIC >>> CLINT >>> CMEYER >>> COLINK >>> CREAMYG >>> DWHEELER >>> EWILHELM >>> HOLLYKING >>> IBURRELL >>> JHOBLITT >>> JLABOVITZ >>> JLAVALLEE >>> JMCADA >>> JOSHUA >>> JOUKE >>> JZUCKER >>> KHAMAR >>> KMELTZ >>> KYLED >>> LEGLESS >>> MARKOV >>> MERLYN >>> MMORGAN >>> MSCHWERN >>> OVID >>> PHOENIX >>> RDB >>> SBONDS >>> SZABGAB >>> TCAINE >>> THINC >>> WILCO >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pdx-pm-list mailing list >>> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list >> _______________________________________________ >> Pdx-pm-list mailing list >> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 12:29:26 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 12:29:26 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] all your authors are belong to us In-Reply-To: <3CF36AF0-72BA-4FEB-95F1-F5088EE2AD34@eli.net> References: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <20060702041517.GA15772@ttul.org> <3CF36AF0-72BA-4FEB-95F1-F5088EE2AD34@eli.net> Message-ID: <200607031229.26567.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Joshua Keroes # on Monday 03 July 2006 11:51 am: >TCAINE is in Seattle now. >CLINT is in the Middle-of-nowhere, WA but he still self-identifies as > ? a Portlander. >OVID - as we all know - is in Nottingham, UK OK, I'll +CLINT and -TCAINE. Just to be crystal clear, here's the procedure. At some point, I'll clean this up and/or let people use the wiki to modify the four +/- files. SYNOPSIS: you must tell me if: * your modules are in last year's list and you want them removed * you moved away and don't want your new modules listed * I know you moved away and you do want your new modules listed * you published modules you don't want listed * you want nothing to do with this listing of modules business * you have the same name as someone from pdx but are not on the mailing list :-) * you want the source code for these hacks ---- # found_ids.txt is generated by a very fallible e-mail search and # multiple types of attempts at name-matching cat author_data/found_ids.txt author_data/names+.txt | \ multigrep --none author_data/names-.txt | \ sort -u > author_data/updated_id_list.txt # this gets IDs from the update_id_list.txt file and checks CPAN ./hacks/authored_modules > module_list_2006.pre.txt cat \ author_data/modules+.txt \ module_list_2005.txt \ module_list_2006.pre.txt | sort -u | \ multigrep --none author_data/modules-.txt > module_list_2006.txt ---- # author_data/names-.txt JMCADA JOUKE PETDANCE SHLOMIF SISYPHUS AMONSEN TCAINE # author_data/names+.txt OVID INGY DBROWNING HOLLYKING # author_data/modules+.txt (added this file just for you c) Devel::TraceUse # author_data/modules-.txt CGI::Application CGI::Application::Plugin::ConfigAuto CGI::Application::Plugin::DBH CGI::Application::Plugin::ValidateRM CGI::Session::PureSQL CGI::Uploader Data::FormValidator Data::FormValidator::Util::HTML Test::XML::Valid Net::ISCABBS Apache::AxKit::Language::LibXSLTEnhanced Apache::AxKit::Language::Svg2AnyFormat Apache::AxKit::Language::Svg2AnyFormat Apache::AxKit::Provider::RDBMS Image::LibRSVG Yahoo::Marketing::.* JLAVALLEE, that last one is just to not have appear 62 times on the shirt if you don't mind :-) --Eric -- "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." --Donald Knuth --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 18:00:03 2006 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:00:03 -0500 Subject: [Pdx-pm] all your authors are belong to us In-Reply-To: <20060702041517.GA15772@ttul.org> References: <200607011505.25017.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <20060702041517.GA15772@ttul.org> Message-ID: <49d805d70607031800g35d4b54av87a8ea354723a36b@mail.gmail.com> > > JMCADA Lurker from Chicago who occasionally posts. From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Tue Jul 4 09:00:54 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 09:00:54 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] lightning talks at OSCON Message-ID: <200607040900.54902.ewilhelm@cpan.org> If you're going to OSCON, you may want to submit a lightning talk proposal for MJD's session. Deadline is this Thursday. http://perl.plover.com/lt/osc2006/ --Eric -- Don't worry about what anybody else is going to do. The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 08:52:25 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 08:52:25 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: Call for proposals -- Perl Foundation Grants Message-ID: <200607050852.26159.ewilhelm@cpan.org> ---------- Forwarded Message: ---------- Subject: [pm_groups] Call for proposals -- Perl Foundation Grants Date: Wednesday 05 July 2006 02:39 am From: Thomas Klausner To: pm_groups at pm.org Hi! Please forward the Call for Proposals to your local groups. The last call didn't result in any grants because there weren't enough / interesting / correct proposals. http://news.perlfoundation.org/2006/07/call_for_proposals_perl_founda.h tml From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 16:49:30 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:49:30 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Meeting Reminder: Next Week Message-ID: <200607051649.30718.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Meeting July 12th, next Wednesday at 6:53pm at Free Geek. http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki Topic: hackfest / code review / structured educational chaos Victim: Kees Cook's Device::SerialPort (possibly also Michael Rasmussen's fut (if he's brave enough)) Audience: Beginner - Advanced This will be a very open meeting format, with lots of participation. Even if you don't feel up to providing feedback, looking over someone else's shoulder and listening to the overviews should be interesting. We'll be covering lots of ground, including likely: o best practices o testing strategies o cross-platform issues o pair programming o agile development How do 10-15 people hack on two codebases in a little over one hour? That's going to be tricky, but I'm confident that the Portland Perl Mongers can handle it. Some advanced preparation is recommended. Further hacking over beer may be required. Suggestions: Have a vnc or remote desktop server on your laptop. Set it to a stupid password. This will hopefully allow us to save time on switching the projector between video connections. It may also come in handy if you want to pair-off. Read-up on the codebase ahead of time. If you start hacking on it, label your changes with your initials so you can quickly cover your suggestions. Have your copy of the code in version control before we get started. (e.g. rcs, svn file:// or maybe darcs.) If you cannot bring a laptop, e-mail me your labelled and commented changes ahead of time. The basic idea is that we'll put some code on the screen, maybe draw over it on the whiteboard (and photograph that if need be.) It might also be handy to have some printouts for scribbling (I'll bring a few 11x17's.) This won't quite be a hackfest -- more like a constructive (if a little chaotic) code review. I think we'll start with a quick (5-min) "what this code does and what I want it to do" from the victims, then break into chunks for about 20 minutes, then reconvene and review the results. I haven't tried this before, so let me know if you have some experience or suggestions. I think we'll be able to learn something and have a lot of fun even if we only break the code worse than it already is. --Eric -- "Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse." --Murphy's Corollary --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 21:09:24 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 21:09:24 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Announcing the 2006 Shirt Message-ID: <200607052109.24449.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Hi all, The shirt design: http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/final_mockup.png If I scribble out the guy's face, does that look like the back of the shirt, or just like Josh is wearing the shirt backwards? Anyway, the one on the right is supposed to be the back. (I'm shooting for getting the shebang across the mid-upper shoulder blades, so that might still move upward just a smidge.) If we get 25 shirts, they'll be yours for $25 each. If there are enough orders by Monday, we can get a better price. Check here for the sizing guide: http://www.bella.com/items.asp?deptid=20&itemid=74 Ladies: If the men's small is too large, they do have a 3/4 sleeve raglan that could work. Please let me know your preference and I'll see what we can manage. http://www.bella.com/items.asp?deptid=3&itemid=42 To order: Send valid YAML. If you want it shipped, I'll contact you to make arrangements and can take credit cards via paypal. Expect to pay maybe $10 for shipping (I haven't looked into it.) XXL will cost extra ------------------------------------------------------------- --- address: if you want it shipped name: your name here pickup: at next meeting or elsewhere quantity: L: 0 M: 0 S: 0 WL: 0 WM: 0 WS: 0 X: 0 XL: 0 XXL: 0 ------------------------------------------------------------- --Eric -- The opinions expressed in this e-mail were randomly generated by the computer and do not necessarily reflect the views of its owner. --Management --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From schwern at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 12:20:23 2006 From: schwern at gmail.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:20:23 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Module Installation, An Interpretive Dance in Five Unnatural Acts Message-ID: <313c1d130607061220j45f5f35el1f6ef99b50aabc62@mail.gmail.com> Since we're having a hackathon this Wednesday I'd like to rope folks into helping me with my OSCON lightning talk. I had a revelation this morning over breakfast. Few people understand the module installation toolchain. The role CPAN, Module::Build, MakeMaker, Module::Install, Test::More and Test::Harness play in installing a simple Perl module. What part does what? And its all pretty detailed and difficult to explain and frankly rather boring. Then it hit me. "Module Installation, An Interpretive Dance"! A physical illustration of the module installation process in five unnatural acts. * CPAN * MakeMaker * Build * Test * Install Performers would play out each part of the process while a module installation scrolls by on the screen behind them. Our hero, the module itself making its way through the process, would be played by one person. MakeMaker by another. make another. And so on. For example... the "Test" act. The "voice of the developer" booms "MAKE TEST!" "make" gathers together the ".t"s. "make" hands the ".t files" to "Test::Harness" Each ".t file", in turn, orders "module" to perform (dance, sing, etc...) At the end of each performance, ".t" holds up an "ok" judging card. During a performance, "module" makes a mistake. ".t" holds up a "not ok" card. "Test::Harness" gives the thumbs down to "make". "make" pulls out a gun and shoots "module". "module" falls over dead. The performance stops. The lights dim. "the developer" (dressed in white) walks on and applies a band-aid to "module" (alternative: "the hand of the developer" comes down from on high (the projector)) "module" returns to life. The lights come back up. The "Test" act repeats itself, quickly, this time with no mistakes. "Test::Harness" gives "make" the thumbs up. We proceed to the "Install" act. Obviously this will need a lot of people, probably 10. Musical talent is optional. There's a wide range of roles: members of the "CPAN dischorus" and the ".t" players will be rather simple; "make" will require a lot of on stage time; "module" will be the most involved. Anyone with talent in music, opera, stage direction, costuming, dance, etc... will be most welcome. This can be as elaborate or as simple as we have the time and effort for. Inspirations include P.D.Q. Bach, Operaman and Spike Jonze's "Praise You" video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UNWLezjArE From schwern at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 12:23:25 2006 From: schwern at gmail.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:23:25 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Module Installation, An Interpretive Dance in Five Unnatural Acts In-Reply-To: <313c1d130607061220j45f5f35el1f6ef99b50aabc62@mail.gmail.com> References: <313c1d130607061220j45f5f35el1f6ef99b50aabc62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <313c1d130607061223x324a13a1s27027e358ef771ac@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/06, Michael G Schwern wrote: > Since we're having a hackathon this Wednesday I'd like to rope folks > into helping me with my OSCON lightning talk. I interpreted "hackathon" a bit too broadly. So as not to stomp all over the code review, we can do this at the bar after the meeting. Alcohol can only help. From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Fri Jul 7 00:47:51 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 00:47:51 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] oscamp registration deadline is Monday Message-ID: <200607070047.51744.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Remember to register on the oscon site before Monday if you want coffee and snacks at oscamp. See http://oscamp.org/Registration for details. --Eric -- "You can't win. You can't break even. You can't quit." --Ginsberg's Restatement of the Three Laws of Thermodynamics --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Mon Jul 10 09:39:23 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:39:23 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] we need shirt orders today Message-ID: <200607100939.24110.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Mongers, We need to get the shirts started today if we're going to have them by OSCON. I currently have 7 shirt orders. This is not enough. If you have questions or issues with the shirt, lets hear them. To order: send me something like the following: name: Your Name pickup: at next meeting or something quantity: M: 1 Sizes are as follows. Women's shirts are 3/4 sleeve. Chest sizes are for a snug fit (note that this small is about the size of last year's medium.) size chest (inches) ---- ----- WS: 31-33 (0-4) WM: 34-36 (4-8) WL: 37-39 (8-10) S: 39-41 M: 41-43 L: 43-45 XL: 45-47 2XL: 47-49 More details: The shirt design: http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/final_mockup.png The shirt supplier's page: http://www.bella.com/items.asp?deptid=20&itemid=74 http://www.bella.com/items.asp?deptid=3&itemid=42 Thanks, Eric -- Moving pianos is dangerous. Moving pianos are dangerous. Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo. --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From ingy at ttul.org Mon Jul 10 16:14:09 2006 From: ingy at ttul.org (Ingy dot Net) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:14:09 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] we need shirt orders today In-Reply-To: <200607100939.24110.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607100939.24110.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <20060710231409.GB24037@ttul.org> On 10/07/06 09:39 -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > Mongers, > > We need to get the shirts started today if we're going to have them by > OSCON. I currently have 7 shirt orders. This is not enough. > > If you have questions or issues with the shirt, lets hear them. > > To order: send me something like the following: > > name: Your Name > pickup: at next meeting or something > quantity: > M: 1 I'll take a medium (to help me with my diet :). I'll get it at OSCON ok? > > Sizes are as follows. Women's shirts are 3/4 sleeve. Chest sizes are > for a snug fit (note that this small is about the size of last year's > medium.) > > size chest (inches) > ---- ----- > WS: 31-33 (0-4) > WM: 34-36 (4-8) > WL: 37-39 (8-10) > > S: 39-41 > M: 41-43 > L: 43-45 > XL: 45-47 > 2XL: 47-49 > > More details: > > The shirt design: > http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/final_mockup.png > > The shirt supplier's page: > http://www.bella.com/items.asp?deptid=20&itemid=74 > http://www.bella.com/items.asp?deptid=3&itemid=42 > > Thanks, > Eric > -- > Moving pianos is dangerous. > Moving pianos are dangerous. > Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo. > --------------------------------------------------- > http://scratchcomputing.com > --------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list From ben.hengst at gmail.com Mon Jul 10 19:39:56 2006 From: ben.hengst at gmail.com (benh) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:39:56 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] we need shirt orders today In-Reply-To: <20060710231409.GB24037@ttul.org> References: <200607100939.24110.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <20060710231409.GB24037@ttul.org> Message-ID: <85ddf48b0607101939m1c31d34bm3df4deb8b2c13c5e@mail.gmail.com> Ben Hengst I can get it at the next meeting. M: 1 On 7/10/06, Ingy dot Net wrote: > On 10/07/06 09:39 -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > > Mongers, > > > > We need to get the shirts started today if we're going to have them by > > OSCON. I currently have 7 shirt orders. This is not enough. > > > > If you have questions or issues with the shirt, lets hear them. > > > > To order: send me something like the following: > > > > name: Your Name > > pickup: at next meeting or something > > quantity: > > M: 1 > > I'll take a medium (to help me with my diet :). I'll get it at OSCON ok? > > > > > Sizes are as follows. Women's shirts are 3/4 sleeve. Chest sizes are > > for a snug fit (note that this small is about the size of last year's > > medium.) > > > > size chest (inches) > > ---- ----- > > WS: 31-33 (0-4) > > WM: 34-36 (4-8) > > WL: 37-39 (8-10) > > > > S: 39-41 > > M: 41-43 > > L: 43-45 > > XL: 45-47 > > 2XL: 47-49 > > > > More details: > > > > The shirt design: > > http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/final_mockup.png > > > > The shirt supplier's page: > > http://www.bella.com/items.asp?deptid=20&itemid=74 > > http://www.bella.com/items.asp?deptid=3&itemid=42 > > > > Thanks, > > Eric > > -- > > Moving pianos is dangerous. > > Moving pianos are dangerous. > > Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo. > > --------------------------------------------------- > > http://scratchcomputing.com > > --------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Mon Jul 10 21:37:45 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:37:45 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] we need shirt orders today In-Reply-To: <200607100939.24110.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607100939.24110.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <200607102137.45331.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Eric Wilhelm # on Monday 10 July 2006 09:39 am: >?I currently have 7 shirt orders. ?This is not enough. A few more orders have come in. If you have ordered a shirt, you should have gotten a confirmation e-mail from me with the subject line "Shirt order confirmation". There's still time to order. We're getting close to the planned quantity (but not close enough to bump it) and may run short on shirts for "walk-ups", so be sure to order now if you want one reserved. Yes, shipping is available. It should be roughly $5/shirt. Thanks, Eric ---------- Forwarded Data: ---------- To order: send me something like the following: name: Your Name pickup: at next meeting or something quantity: M: 1 Sizes are as follows. Women's shirts are 3/4 sleeve. Chest sizes are for a snug fit (note that this small is about the size of last year's medium.) size chest (inches) ---- ----- WS: 31-33 (0-4) WM: 34-36 (4-8) WL: 37-39 (8-10) S: 39-41 M: 41-43 L: 43-45 XL: 45-47 2XL: 47-49 More details: The shirt design: http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/final_mockup.png The shirt supplier's page: http://www.bella.com/items.asp?deptid=20&itemid=74 http://www.bella.com/items.asp?deptid=3&itemid=42 Thanks, Eric -- "Insert random misquote here" --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Tue Jul 11 14:52:38 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:52:38 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: Newsletter from the O'Reilly UG Program, July 11 Message-ID: <200607111452.38302.ewilhelm@cpan.org> New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Agile Retrospective -bash Quick Reference (PDF) -BigNum Math -The Book of JavaScript, Second Edition -Build Your Own AJAX Web Applications -Classic LEGO Mindstorms Projects and Software Tools -Combating Spyware in the Enterprise -Dictionary of Information Security -Essential Computer Security -Hacking the Cable Modem -FileMaker 8.5: Integrating the Web (PDF) -How to Cheat at Managing Information Security -How to Cheat at Securing a Wireless Network -How to Keep Your Boss from Sinking Your Project (PDF) -The Internet: The Missing Manual -Joe Grand's Best of Hardware, Wireless, and Game Console Hacking -Learning PHP and MySQL -LPI Linux Certification in a Nutshell, Second Edition -PC Music--The Easy Guide -Photoshop Workflow Setups -Python in a Nutshell, Second Edition -Rails Recipes -SUSE Linux -Syngress IT Security Project Management Handbook -VB 2005 Black Book -Wicked Cool PHP -XQuery (Rough Cuts Version) -Your Life in Web Apps (PDF) ---------- Forwarded Message: ---------- Subject: Newsletter from the O'Reilly UG Program, July 11 Date: Tuesday 11 July 2006 02:38 pm From: "Marsee Henon" To: ewilhelm at cpan.org ================================================================ O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders July 11, 2006 ================================================================ -Put Up an O'Reilly Euro OSCON Banner, Get a Free Book -Put Up a 2006 O?Reilly Photoshop Cook-Off Banner, Get a Free Book -Promotional Material Available ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book Info ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Review Books are Available Copies of our books are available for your members to review--send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on your request (click on the "More Details" link to find it.) Let me know if you need your book by a certain date. Allow at least four weeks for shipping. ***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review. For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to: ***Group Purchases with Better Discounts are Available Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in touch with our sales department. ---------------------------------------------------------------- General News or Inquiries ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Put Up an O'Reilly EuroOSCON Banner, Get a Free Book We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our banner, I'll send you the O'Reilly book of your choice. EuroOSCON Banners: ***Put Up a 2006 O?Reilly Photoshop Cook-off Banner, Get a Free Book We're looking for user groups to display our contest banner on their web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our contest banner, I'll send you the O'Reilly book of your choice. We also have a PDF Flier to include in your newsletter. Contest Banners: ***Promotional Material Available: The following items are available for your next meeting. (Let me know the item and the amount you'd like): -O'Reilly Photoshop Cook-off Flyers -MAKE Magazine Volume 6 (limit one copy per group) -30% UG Discount bookmarks ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members July 11, 2006 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Agile Retrospective -bash Quick Reference (PDF) -BigNum Math -The Book of JavaScript, Second Edition -Build Your Own AJAX Web Applications -Classic LEGO Mindstorms Projects and Software Tools -Combating Spyware in the Enterprise -Dictionary of Information Security -Essential Computer Security -Hacking the Cable Modem -FileMaker 8.5: Integrating the Web (PDF) -How to Cheat at Managing Information Security -How to Cheat at Securing a Wireless Network -How to Keep Your Boss from Sinking Your Project (PDF) -The Internet: The Missing Manual -Joe Grand's Best of Hardware, Wireless, and Game Console Hacking -Learning PHP and MySQL -LPI Linux Certification in a Nutshell, Second Edition -PC Music--The Easy Guide -Photoshop Workflow Setups -Python in a Nutshell, Second Edition -Rails Recipes -SUSE Linux -Syngress IT Security Project Management Handbook -VB 2005 Black Book -Wicked Cool PHP -XQuery (Rough Cuts Version) -Your Life in Web Apps (PDF) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Phillip Torrone at HOPE Number Six, New York, NY--July 22 -O'Reilly Authors at the Apple Store, San Francisco--August 9 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -EuroOSCON Registration is Open -Register for OSCON, July 24-28--Portland,OR -OSCON Exhibit Hall Passes Still Available -OSCamp 2006 at OSCON, July 24-28 ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -What Is a Wiki? (and How to Use One for Your Projects) -The Long View of Identity -Nat Torkington Previews OSCON 2006 -Rethinking Community Documentation -The Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop Iceland Adventure -Secrets of the Arpeggiator -Parallels Desktop for the Mac -Wireless Security on the Road Without a VPN -How To Recover from Registry Corruption -Inside Vista's New Diagnostic Tools -Build Your Own Ajax Web Applications -Five Keys to Improving Web Site Conversions -How to Code HTML Email Newsletters -What's New in Eclipse 3.2 Java Development Tools? -Making the Most of JDBC with WebRowSet -MAKE Podcast: Weekend Projects--Make a Workbench -Building Tricorders --------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases--Books, PDFs, and Rough Cuts ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get 30% off a single book or 35% off two or more books from O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress books you purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. Free ground shipping on orders $29.95 or more. For more details, go to: Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? Ask your group leader for more information. For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: ***Agile Retrospective Publisher: Pragmatic Bookshelf ISBN: 0977616649 Project retrospectives help teams examine what went right or wrong on a project. But traditionally, retrospectives (also known as "post-mortems") are only held at the end of the project--too late to help. You need agile retrospectives that are iterative and incremental. You need to accurately find and fix problems to help the team today. ***bash Quick Reference (PDF) Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596527764 In this quick reference, you'll find everything you need to know about the bash shell. Whether you print it out or read it on the screen, this PDF gives you answers to annoying questions that come up when you're writing shell scripts: What characters do you need to quote? How do you get variable substitution to do exactly what you want? How do you use arrays? ***BigNum Math Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597491128 "BigNum Math" takes the reader on a detailed and descriptive course of the process of implementing bignum multiple precision math routines. The text begins with a coverage of what "bignum math" means and heads into the lower level functions. ***The Book of JavaScript, Second Edition Publisher: No Starch Press ISBN: 1593271069 "The Book of JavaScript" teaches how to add interactivity, animation, and other tricks to web sites with JavaScript. Rather than provide a series of cut-and-paste scripts, that takes the reader through a series of real world JavaScript code with an emphasis on understanding. Each chapter focuses on a few important JavaScript features, shows how professional web sites incorporate them, and gives you examples of how to add those features to web sites. ***Build Your Own AJAX Web Applications Publisher: SitePoint ISBN: 0975841947 This practical hands-on guide for first-time AJAX will walk you through building multiple AJAX applications, with each application highlighting a different strength and use of AJAX. Throughout the book, emphasis is placed on modern, standards-compliant techniques, accessibility, and cross-browser compatability. ***Classic LEGO Mindstorms Projects and Software Tools Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 159749089X The perfect book/DVD for the Lego Mindstorms geek eager to extend the life of their RIS 1.x and 2.x kits, RCX Bricks, motors, and programs by building new projects. Includes forty projects, software tools such as LDraw, MLCad, and POV-Ray, and complete RCX and NQC code files. All projects are in PDF form on the DVD, ready for printing, copying, or annotating. A perfect resource for clubs and classes as well. ***Combating Spyware in the Enterprise Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597490644 "Combating Spyware in the Enterprise" is the first book published on defending enterprise networks from increasingly sophisticated and malicious spyware. System administrators and security professionals responsible for administering and securing networks ranging in size from SOHO networks up to the largest, enterprise networks will learn to use a combination of free and commercial anti-spyware software, firewalls, intrusion detection systems, intrusion prevention systems, and host integrity monitoring applications to prevent the installation of spyware, and to limit the damage caused by spyware that does in fact infiltrate their networks. ***Dictionary of Information Security Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597491152 The dictionary has the most up-to-date terms, including those related to computer viruses, malware, and more recent technologies such as wireless networking. ***Essential Computer Security Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597491144 Do you want your computer to be absolutely, positively, 100% secure against all vulnerabilities and exploits both known now and those yet to be discovered? That's simple--leave your computer in the box it came in. The only way to be 100% secure is never to turn the computer on. Once you turn the computer on, you begin a tight-rope-balancing act between functionality, convenience, and security. ***Hacking the Cable Modem Publisher: No Starch Press ISBN: 1593271018 When freed from restrictions set by service providers, cable modems can be tricked out to reach unbelievably fast speeds. "Hacking the Cable Modem" shows readers how cable modems work, and how to bypass security, install firmware updates, customize cable modems, increase upload and download speeds, unlock hidden features and more. Detailed illustrations and easily understandable terminology show how to modify actual devices. ***FileMaker 8.5: Integrating the Web (PDF) Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059652823X FileMaker Pro, famed for power and ease of use, has added a suite of new features that can seriously boost your database productivity. This tutorial helps you take full advantage of the fresh stuff. It focuses on FileMaker's terrific new tool for integrating the Web with your databases: the Web Viewer. Step-by-step instructions help you create a Web Viewer from one of FileMaker's templates or a totally custom version of your own. But the tutorial doesn't stop there. It goes on to cover Object Naming, including FileMaker's rules for Object Names and how to use them in scripts; new scripts; new functions; and Universal Binary for the new Intel Macs. ***How to Cheat at Managing Information Security Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597491101 This is the only book that covers all the topics that any budding security manager needs to know! This book is written for managers responsible for IT/Security departments from mall office environments up to enterprise networks. These individuals do not need to know about every last bit and byte, but they need to have a solid understanding of all major IT security issues to effectively manage their departments. ***How to Cheat at Securing a Wireless Network Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597490873 Wireless connectivity is now a reality in most businesses. Yet by its nature, wireless networks are the most difficult to secure and are often the favorite target of intruders. This book provides the busy network administrator with best-practice solutions for securing the wireless network. The book endorses the principle that the best strategy is to deploy multiple layers of security, each reinforcing the other. Yet it never strays from its emphasis on the practical; that any tool or methodology that is deployed must work reliably, allow sufficient access, and require a minimal amount of maintenance. ***How to Keep Your Boss from Sinking Your Project (PDF) Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596528027 Like it or not, your project needs management. Yet few good software projects can survive bad management. If you're a programmer on a high-visibility project, this PDF offers five principle guidelines for managing upward that will help you help your boss make the right decisions about setting project expectations, working with users and stakeholders, putting the project on the right track and keeping it there. The PDF also covers what problems cause projects to fail and how to fix them, and what you can do to keep your software project from running into trouble. ***The Internet: The Missing Manual Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059652742X The Internet is synonymous with change--that's one of its charms, and one of its headaches. You think you know the Internet, but are you really up to speed on internet telephony, movie and TV downloading, multiplayer games, online banking and dating, and photosharing? This utterly current book covers getting online, searching/finding information, downloading and sharing movies, music, and photos, and the latest ways to keep in touch. ***Joe Grand's Best of Hardware, Wireless, and Game Console Hacking Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597491136 This book is perfect for any devoted hardware hacker, homebrew gamer, or geek compelled to void hardware warranties. Twenty projects from the books "Hardware Hacking" and "Game Console Hacking" are compiled on a single DVD, providing hi-res color for clear views of each step in the hack along with the ability to print individual sheets. Hacks include Xbox, PS2, Wireless 802.11, Macintosh, iPod, and most of the classic consoles from Atari and Nintendo. The book includes chapters on hacking tools and electrical engineering basics as well as the background on each hardware device. ***Learning PHP and MySQL Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101104 Featuring basic concepts explained in plain English, "Learning PHP and MySQL" is the ideal guide for newcomers attracted to the popular PHP and MySQL combination. Learn in an easy-to-follow fashion how to generate dynamic web content. Also covers error handling, security, HTTP authentication, and more. ***LPI Linux Certification in a Nutshell, Second Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596005288 "LPI Linux Certification in a Nutshell, Second Edition" is an invaluable resource for determining what you need to practice to pass the Linux Professional Institute exams. This book will help you determine when you're ready to take the exams, which are technically challenging and designed to reflect the skills that administrators need in real working environments. ***PC Music--The Easy Guide Publisher: PC Publishing ISBN: 1870775201 Completely updated with new sections on the MP3 revolution, the PC as a complete Media Center and the realization of your PC as a recording studio, this new edition of "PC Music--The Easy Guide," will show you what can be done, what it all means, and what you will need to start creating and enjoying your own music on your PC. ***Photoshop Workflow Setups Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101686 Adobe Photoshop has so many different work areas and tools that it can become confusing or even intimidating for digital photographers to use in a production environment. 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Chad Fowler's "Rails Recipes" is a collection of recipes that will take you step by step through the most cutting edge, modern Rails techniques, mixing the ingredients to create world-class web applications. Learn how to do it, and how to do it right. ***Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059652370X A master photographer and teacher since 1977, Stephen Johnson is widely recognized as a pioneer of digital photography. His new book chronicles his ride on the bleeding edge of this medium's evolution, and provides a practical in-depth introduction to digital photography that includes the latest techniques. Complete with beautiful color photographic examples and illustrations, this book is a unique, passionate, holistic examination for every student of photography. ***SUSE Linux Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059610183X Whether you use SUSE Linux from Novell, or the free openSUSE distribution, this book has something for every level of user. The modular, lab-based approach not only shows you how--but also explains why--and gives you the answers you need to get up and running with SUSE Linux. ***Syngress IT Security Project Management Handbook Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597490768 As the late management guru Peter Drucker once said, "Plans are only good intentions unless they immediately degenerate into hard work." The intent of this book is not to lead you through long, arduous planning processes while hackers are stealing your network out from under you. The intent is to provide you with effective network security planning tools so that you can "degenerate into hard work" as quickly as possible to keep your network secure with the least amount of effort. ***VB 2005 Black Book Publisher: Paraglyph Press ISBN: 1933097086 "Visual Basic 2005 Black Book" is one of the first comprehensive books that covers the new version of Visual Basic and the development features of Microsoft's .NET platform in depth. It explains the major changes to VB and provides numerous tips and practical solutions for developing applications and guides the programmer through all the new features of VB 2005 with detailed coverage of the new controls, language enhancements, and architecture features. ***Wicked Cool PHP Publisher: No Starch Press ISBN: 1593271026 "Wicked Cool PHP" provides PHP scripts that can be implemented immediately to make programmers' lives easier, including scripts for processing credit cards, getting live shipping quotes, and accepting PayPal payments online. Author William Steinmetz approaches the limitations of PHP frankly and honestly, showing readers where security holes might be created by novice programmers and suggesting workarounds for when PHP fails. ***XQuery (Rough Cuts Version) Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596527888 "XQuery" delivers a carefully-paced tutorial that teaches everything a developer needs to start querying XML and databases. Learn how to join multiple data sources or hugely disparate data sources and documents, quickly sort the results or find query errors based on the data schema, and query elements differently depending on their type. This book covers the most useful functions of XQuery and explains how to query a variety of relational and XML sources. It also includes specific sections on learning XQuery for SQL and XSLT programmers. ***Your Life in Web Apps (PDF) Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059652806X Have you dreamed of a simpler life where web apps and a browser meet all of your computing needs? All you need is a network connection. In this PDF Giles Turnbull introduces you to a day of web apps-only, then he surveys the best and most innovative web apps from the current crop available right now. He also addresses practicality, security issues, and backup strategies for living the web app life. Is it really possible? 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Subscribe at: ================================================ Upcoming Events ================================================ ***For more events, please see: http://events.oreilly.com/ ***Phillip Torrone at HOPE Number Six, New York, NY--July 22 Editor Phillip Torrone (Makezine.com) will be speaking on "Citizen Engineer--Consumer Electronics Hacking and Open Source Hardware" at HOPE (Hackers On Planet Earth) Number Six. ***O'Reilly Authors at the Apple Store, San Francisco--August 9 Join authors Derrick Story ("Digital Photography Pocket Guide, 3rd Ed." and "iPhoto 6: The Missing Manual"), Chuck Toporek ("Running Boot Camp" and "Inside .Mac"), and Adam Goldstein ("AppleScript: The Missing Manual" and "Switching to the Mac: The Missing Manual, Tiger Ed.") for an evening at the Apple Store in San Francisco. ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***EuroOSCON Registration is Open The preliminary schedule for the 2nd annual EuroOSCON, O'Reilly's European Open Source Convention, 18-21 September in Brussels, is now available. Featured speakers include Jeff Waugh, Damian Conway, Greg Stein, Rasmus Lerdorf, Marten Mickos, Tim O'Reilly, and many others. User Group discounts are available, email marsee at oreilly.com for more information. To register for the conference, go to: ***OSCON, July 24-28--Portland,OR OSCON, the O'Reilly Open Source Convention, is still where open source rubber meets the road. OSCON happens July 24-28, 2006 in open source hotspot Portland, Oregon. Hundreds of sessions and tutorials will be offered. Thousands of open source mavericks, brainiacs, hackers, activists, scientists, and their admirers, some in business-casual disguise will be there. Read all about it. Use code "os06dsug" when you register, and receive 15% off the early registration price. To register for the conference, go to: ***OSCON Exhibit Hall Passes Still Available Don't have the budget or time for all of OSCON? 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The agenda is created and modified "on the fly" by the participants. You can add to the agenda any issue of importance to you. It will be discussed and addressed to the greatest extent possible. All of the key points and next steps will be captured online at OSCamp.org so the entire Freedom/Libre/Open community can benefit. Register for the exhibit hall pass and make sure you use the special code os06oscamp. For OSCamp information, registration, and schedule, go to: ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- General News --------------------- ***What Is a Wiki? (and How to Use One for Your Projects) Wikis are becoming known as the tool of choice for large, multiple-participant projects because jumping in and revising the pages of a wiki is easy for anyone to do. This article covers how to effectively use a wiki to keep notes and share ideas among a group of people, and how to organize that wiki to avoid lost thoughts, and encourage serendipity. Matt Webb and Tom Stafford co-authored this article using a wiki, as they did to write their book, "Mind Hacks." ***The Long View of Identity Who are you online? Your digital identity is a complex bundle of information--not just what you say about yourself, but what other people say about you and how trustworthy they are. O'Reilly editor Andy Oram recently attended the Identity Mashup conference at Harvard Law's Berkman Center and reports on one of the most vital issues of privacy and usability on the Internet. --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Nat Torkington Previews OSCON 2006 This year's Open Source conference runs July 24-28 in Portland, Oregon. Nat Torkington talks about what you can expect at this year's show. 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Let Ajax guru Matthew Eernisse be your pilot and guide you to the heights of Web 2.0 success. ***Five Keys to Improving Web Site Conversions Are your visitors not buying enough, subscribing to your newsletter, or downloading samples? Ensure good and growing conversions with this guide. ***How to Code HTML Email Newsletters Find out the best way to make your HTML newsletters and ezines sizzle with this handy how-to guide to the unique challenges in coding HTML for email. --------------------- Java --------------------- ***What's New in Eclipse 3.2 Java Development Tools? The popular Eclipse IDE's latest release, version 3.2, is the cornerstone of an ambitious release of ten Eclipse-branded projects on the same day. But what's in it for you? Ed Burnette takes a look at the new features in Eclipse's Java Development Tools and shows you how they'll make your development much easier. ***Making the Most of JDBC with WebRowSet Database to XML and back again. If everyone's doing some or all of this, then shouldn't we write it once, get it right, and standardize? JDBC 3.0's WebRowSet offers a profound increase in power over the old ResultSet. Sharad Acharya shows you what's possible. --------------------- Podcasts --------------------- ***MAKE Podcast: Weekend Projects--Make a Workbench Every week, Bre Pettis will be bringing you a project that you can make over the weekend. For this first podcast, you can learn how to make a workbench for your garage, studio, or get your priorities straight and put it in your livingroom! ***Building Tricorders We're featuring four sessions from the first day of the Where 2.0 conference. Josh Peterson tells you to live your life as if you're on vacation; Mike Liebhold looks at a future in which the invisible annotations on the world around you becomes visible; Schuler Erle demos Gutenkarte, which reveals geographic information in the books you read; and Lauren Gelman cautions us about the privacy issues in exposing our data. (DTF 06-26-2006: 26 minutes, 15 seconds) Until next time-- Marsee Henon ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://ug.oreilly.com/creativemedia/ ================================================================ ------------------------------------------------------- -- "Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana." --Groucho Marx --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From ben.hengst at gmail.com Tue Jul 11 22:49:28 2006 From: ben.hengst at gmail.com (benh) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:49:28 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Module Installation, An Interpretive Dance in Five Unnatural Acts In-Reply-To: <313c1d130607061223x324a13a1s27027e358ef771ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <313c1d130607061220j45f5f35el1f6ef99b50aabc62@mail.gmail.com> <313c1d130607061223x324a13a1s27027e358ef771ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <85ddf48b0607112249j425cbdbbne4aa08e3badf9dcb@mail.gmail.com> Wow.... I don't know how much I would have to drink to say I'd do it... but I'm sure intrigued. That and I then might get to really understand the M::B process.... (thinking cap on) benh~ On 7/6/06, Michael G Schwern wrote: > On 7/6/06, Michael G Schwern wrote: > > Since we're having a hackathon this Wednesday I'd like to rope folks > > into helping me with my OSCON lightning talk. > > I interpreted "hackathon" a bit too broadly. So as not to stomp all > over the code review, we can do this at the bar after the meeting. > Alcohol can only help. > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Wed Jul 12 09:53:06 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:53:06 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] July Meeting Tonight -- 6:53pm at Free Geek Message-ID: <200607120953.06569.ewilhelm@cpan.org> The July meeting is tonight. 6:53pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave. We'll be reviewing and hacking on Kees Cook's Device::SerialPort module and tests. http://search.cpan.org/~cook/Device-SerialPort-1.002/SerialPort.pm BONUS FEATURE: The meeting will end with a one-man storyboard of "Module Installation, An Interpretive Dance in Five Unnatural Acts" by Schwern, who will later (after you've had enough to drink) talk you into performing it with him at OSCON. Bring a laptop if you can. Otherwise, bring some paper and a scribbling instrument. This will be a very open meeting format, with lots of participation. Even if you don't feel up to providing feedback, looking over someone else's shoulder and listening to the overviews should be interesting. We'll be covering lots of ground, including likely: o best practices o testing strategies o cross-platform issues o pair programming o agile development Suggestions: Have a vnc or remote desktop server on your laptop. Set it to a stupid password. This will hopefully allow us to save time on switching the projector between video connections. It may also come in handy if you want to pair-off. Read-up on the codebase ahead of time. If you start hacking on it, label your changes with your initials so you can quickly cover your suggestions. Have your copy of the code in version control before we get started. (e.g. rcs, svn file:// or maybe darcs.) If you cannot bring a laptop, e-mail me your labelled and commented changes before 4pm. The basic idea is that we'll put some code on the screen, maybe draw over it on the whiteboard (and photograph that if need be.) I'll bring a few 11x17 printouts for scribbling. This won't quite be a hackfest -- more like a constructive (if a little chaotic) code review. We'll start with a quick (5-min) "what this code does and what I want it to do" from the victim, then break into chunks for about 20-30 minutes, then reconvene and review the results. --Eric -- software: a hypothetical exercise which happens to compile. --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From jeff at vpservices.com Wed Jul 12 22:34:19 2006 From: jeff at vpservices.com (Jeff Zucker) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:34:19 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Venezuelan geeks coming to town Message-ID: <44B5DB5B.3020505@vpservices.com> Hi all, I've been involved for the past couple of years working with Free/Open Source Software developers in Venezuela and will be moderating an OSCON panel on what's going on down there. Two Venezuelan geeks (including ait from perlmonks) will be coming up for the panel and we'll also be doing a community presentation for those that can't make OSCON (details to be announced soon). I had planned to put them up at my place but some personal events have made it difficult for me to house both of them so I'm wondering if any of you would be willing to house one of them for four or five days during OSCON. They're fluent in English, involved in OS, and great guys. If you might be able to provide housing, please contact me ASAP. -- Jeff Zucker (aka jZed at perlmonks, jzucker at cpan, etc.) cell: 503.442.1044 From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Jul 12 23:06:37 2006 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: 12 Jul 2006 23:06:37 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Venezuelan geeks coming to town In-Reply-To: <44B5DB5B.3020505@vpservices.com> References: <44B5DB5B.3020505@vpservices.com> Message-ID: <86mzberqc2.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Zucker writes: Jeff> I've been involved for the past couple of years working with Free/Open Jeff> Source Software developers in Venezuela and will be moderating an OSCON Jeff> panel on what's going on down there. Two Venezuelan geeks (including Jeff> ait from perlmonks) will be coming up for the panel and we'll also be Jeff> doing a community presentation for those that can't make OSCON (details Jeff> to be announced soon). Jeff> I had planned to put them up at my place but some personal events have Jeff> made it difficult for me to house both of them so I'm wondering if any Jeff> of you would be willing to house one of them for four or five days Jeff> during OSCON. They're fluent in English, involved in OS, and great Jeff> guys. If you might be able to provide housing, please contact me ASAP. I've been asked to be a keynote speaker at their equivalent of OSCON in a few months. What an interesting exchange. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From keithl at kl-ic.com Thu Jul 13 07:38:20 2006 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:38:20 +0000 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Newbie question about testing and Perl Message-ID: <20060713143820.GA18659@gate.kl-ic.com> Newbie question: When testing a module that is concerned with a hardware device ( Device::SerialPort using /dev/ttyXX ) or an external non-Perl program ( Dirvish using rsync ), why don't the Perl programs test against an emulation, rather than the real thing? This occured to me after thinking about what little I understood of what I observed at the hackathon last night - some of the issues were related to battles between the install test code, and the modem-connected default serial port on Eric's laptop (the test code wants an open serial port - which is silly). While it was useful to see chromatic and Schwern and others replace cheezy Perl with good stuff, the tweak/test/tweak/test iterative loop was inefficient because the testing prerequisites were not met. That is often the case during installation test, right? I would think an emulation - with behavior, timing, and everything - would be easy to connect to on a Linux/Mac/Unix system (just tweak the data structures inside Perl to point at a different file or process), and perhaps not that hard in Windows. The emulation (written in Perl, or perhaps written in a hardware emulation language like Verilog) might not be an perfect emulation of the real thing, but it could be made to exhibit corner-case behavior that the real thing might not normally exhibit. More elaborate emulations would emulate many of the operating system behaviors (particularly the clock or the network or the nut attached to the mouse), and pick apart driver C source to gather error messages for the emulator to throw at the Perl code under test. Deviations between emulated behavior and real behavior would be instructive to the designers of the system - sometimes the emulator is correct and the emulated system is defective. Perhaps testing against an emulator is invalid, or emulators are difficult to write, or this is a common technique in software that I haven't heard about yet. Turned inside out, and testing just a small bit of code, this sounds like a test harness. We do this kind of emulation in electronics, in hardware and in real time, so we can test our electronic concoctions, and I wonder about the analogous techniques in software. It is difficult in electronics; we often use a $2M tester to test $0.20 parts, and spend months programming the tester, but it is how we manage to reduce defects below 0.01% on items made of impure real-world semi-deterministic analog goop. Surely software could do better. I await your clueful adjustment of my ignorance ... Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From ckuskie at dalsemi.com Thu Jul 13 08:41:06 2006 From: ckuskie at dalsemi.com (Colin Kuskie) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:41:06 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Newbie question about testing and Perl In-Reply-To: <20060713143820.GA18659@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20060713143820.GA18659@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <20060713154106.GC29936@dalsemi.com> On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 02:38:20PM +0000, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > Newbie question: > > When testing a module that is concerned with a hardware device > ( Device::SerialPort using /dev/ttyXX ) or an external non-Perl > program ( Dirvish using rsync ), why don't the Perl programs test > against an emulation, rather than the real thing? Do you mean like Test::MockObject? Colin From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jul 13 01:21:22 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 01:21:22 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: [pm_groups] OSCON Perl Foundation Booth - Volunteers? Message-ID: <200607130121.23052.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Rumor has it that boothing might get you access to keynote speeches. ---------- Forwarded Message: ---------- Subject: [pm_groups] OSCON Perl Foundation Booth - Volunteers? Date: Wednesday 12 July 2006 09:41 pm From: "David H. Adler" To: PM Group list The Perl Foundation is going to have a table at OSCON again this year, and I've volunteered to wrangle volunteers. You'd think I'd know better by now... Anyway, as you may have guessed, we're looking for people to man the booth during parts of the conference. If you could pass the word on to your loyal subjects, I'd appreciate it. Those wishing to volunteer should mail and let me know. Thanks! dha -- David H. Adler - - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ My glass might be half empty, but I am on the way to the bar - Simon Wilcox -- Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org pm_groups mailing list pm_groups at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups ------------------------------------------------------- -- software: a hypothetical exercise which happens to compile. --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jul 13 09:52:00 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:52:00 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] hardware-related testing In-Reply-To: <20060713143820.GA18659@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20060713143820.GA18659@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <200607130952.01152.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Keith Lofstrom # on Thursday 13 July 2006 07:38 am: >the tweak/test/tweak/test iterative >loop was inefficient because the testing prerequisites were not met. >That is often the case during installation test, right? To be clear, the unmet prerequisite was having *a* serial port on my laptop. Our insertion of TODO blocks around the tests that fail with a connected modem was really more of a demonstration of TODO than an actual fix. The tests in question really need to skip_all() if there's not a port or if it appears that something is connected to the port. Kees had inherited this code and tests and had been wanting to update them to Test::More for just that sort of reason. Also note that we finished by running the tests on my workstation, which has a serial port, but had a modem connected to the assumed port (which causes the port to respond differently.) As for missing hardware prerequisites, yes. The test should assume that it cannot access the hardware unless either a) it can safely probe for it or b) the administrator has specifically requested hardware testing. While this code must be tested on-hardware to verify it, the basic rule of CPAN is that you should assume "no human at terminal" and "no physical access to machine" in most situations. $ENV{PERL_MM_USE_DEFAULT} is one indicator, but in the case of hardware, you may also have to check the user's permissions, etc. (Aside: I believe Module::Build has an ask() method that allows you to ask questions of the (possibly absent) user in the "proper" way.) Yes, emulation would be good, but would have to be implemented on all of the architectures supported by this code. --Eric -- "Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book." --Ronald Reagan --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From randall at sonofhans.net Thu Jul 13 09:59:53 2006 From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:59:53 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Newbie question about testing and Perl In-Reply-To: <20060713143820.GA18659@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20060713143820.GA18659@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <14B9EAA2-BCB7-4075-9D94-7A97A10FD53C@sonofhans.net> On Jul 13, 2006, at 7:38 AM, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > ... it is how we manage to reduce defects below 0.01% on items made > of impure real-world semi-deterministic analog goop. Surely > software could do better. IMHO a large part of the reason is economic. the tester-to-tested unit cost ratio for near-perfect software is less than the seven orders of magnitude in your example, but it's higher than most external or internal clients are willing to pay. furthermore, since most software is unique, it's a cost that must be paid again and again on every project. the most robust software engineering (and i use the term advisedly) process i've heard of is NASA's, for the space shuttle[1]. i do my best to practice what i can call "software engineering," but i'm under no illusions that i've ever developed anything non-trivial with the robustness that NASA take for granted. clients want instant gratification with software, and have been conditioned to regard the cost of failure (e.g. BSOD) as (a) unavoidable, and (b) trivial. in fact it's neither of those things, but nearly any client will pick "cheap and now, with a couple bugs" over "three months from now and better, but still not perfect." r ---- 1. http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.html From krisb at ring.org Thu Jul 13 13:38:28 2006 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] Overwork is bad for you Message-ID: I mentioned this at the lucky lab last night. A Japanese court ruled that this workers suicide was work related, so his family will get workers comp benefits. http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/07/12/HNjapanworker_1.html -Kris From keithl at kl-ic.com Thu Jul 13 18:42:07 2006 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 01:42:07 +0000 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Newbie question about testing and Perl In-Reply-To: <14B9EAA2-BCB7-4075-9D94-7A97A10FD53C@sonofhans.net> References: <20060713143820.GA18659@gate.kl-ic.com> <14B9EAA2-BCB7-4075-9D94-7A97A10FD53C@sonofhans.net> Message-ID: <20060714014207.GB10021@gate.kl-ic.com> On Jul 13, 2006, at 7:38 AM, Keith Lofstrom wrote: >... it is how we manage to reduce defects below 0.01% on items made >of impure real-world semi-deterministic analog goop. Surely >software could do better. On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 09:59:53AM -0700, Randall Hansen wrote: > IMHO a large part of the reason is economic. the tester-to-tested > unit cost ratio for near-perfect software is less than the seven > orders of magnitude in your example, but it's higher than most > external or internal clients are willing to pay. furthermore, since > most software is unique, it's a cost that must be paid again and > again on every project. > > the most robust software engineering (and i use the term advisedly) > process i've heard of is NASA's, for the space shuttle[1]. i do my > best to practice what i can call "software engineering," but i'm > under no illusions that i've ever developed anything non-trivial with > the robustness that NASA take for granted. > > clients want instant gratification with software, and have been > conditioned to regard the cost of failure (e.g. BSOD) as (a) > unavoidable, and (b) trivial. in fact it's neither of those things, > but nearly any client will pick "cheap and now, with a couple bugs" > over "three months from now and better, but still not perfect." As was pointed out in a similar thread over on plug talk, the economics usually support, and even demand, careful testing (most particularly at the specification and prototyping stage). Software failure is hugely expensive, see: http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/sep05/1685/failt1 (Thanks to Andrew Becherer for the pointer) A recent local example is the poorly tested new web portal for First Tech Credit Union. After the high-stress rollout, Mike Osborne, the 49yo CFO of First Tech, died of strep pneumonia at St. Vincent Hospital. Given his personality type, the events are almost certainly related. Bad software can kill. Most clients don't want "instant gratification", but do have businesses that rely on software being delivered when promised. Usually "it is ready now" is the only promise with a chance of being true. Certainly advanced hardware has its own delivery slips, but companies that don't deliver are discounted in the marketplace, and often discounted into extinction (Who remembers E Machines graphics boards for the Mac? Osborne Computers?). Hardware is usually produced on spec; if the chip doesn't work, you don't get paid. If the CPU has a bug with FDIV, you spend a billion dollars replacing them. On both the client and producer side of the software equation, expectations are immature; neither client nor producer understands how good software can be. Alan Cooper describes the phenomena in "The Inmates are Running the Asylum" as "dancing bear-ware"; we are still surprised that software works at all, so like the dancing bear we do not expect the performance of a Baryshnikov. But we *should*. A software production process designed to produce Baryshnikovs will be more expensive per unit output than processes producing dancing bears. The overall cost per delivered function may not rise much, because a well tested process will drive shared modularity. Maybe most people won't pay anything extra at all for software that works. However, businesses that don't care about the accuracy or productivity of their processes rapidly go bankrupt. So it is arguable that when somebody gets off their butt and actually develops a probably more robust software development process, they will soon dominate the market. While a newbie, one of the attractions of Perl is a greater focus on testing than I see in most other language communities. And that makes it valuable to user communities where reliability does matter (for example, in banking and finance, arguably more sensitive to software failure than NASA actually is). Perhaps some metric of software reliability versus testing can be developed that demonstrates this, so that institutions like First Tech can convert the abstract goodness of testing into dollars-and-cents business decisions about scheduling and cost. Shared modularity is another attraction of Perl; the fact that most software is unique is nothing to brag about. There is very little reason for the software that runs at First Tech Credit Union to be markedly different from that running at Unitus or OnPoint, and it is easier for the users if all families of banking software behave alike. Different organizational business logic will certainly change how the modules are configured and interconnected, but the Banking::Funds::Transfer modules should be the same - and tested to the Nth degree. Since software for the Mars Orbiter cannot be tested with a real Mars, and software for funds transfer cannot be tested with real funds, emulators ( Mock objects? ) are needed. "Correct by construction" ain't gonna happen (imagine Elmer Fudd saying "I will be weelly weelly caeful"), so a complete test environment is necessary. Complete as in "all inputs and outputs are emulated or captured"). Hence my surprise on Wednesday night, when Eric did not turn off the real serial port and turn on the emulated one, and the question that started this thread. I will continue with mock objects in another message. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jul 13 19:27:03 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:27:03 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Newbie question about testing and Perl In-Reply-To: <20060714014207.GB10021@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20060713143820.GA18659@gate.kl-ic.com> <14B9EAA2-BCB7-4075-9D94-7A97A10FD53C@sonofhans.net> <20060714014207.GB10021@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <200607131927.03478.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Keith Lofstrom # on Thursday 13 July 2006 06:42 pm: >Hence my surprise on Wednesday night, when Eric did not turn off >the real serial port and turn on the emulated one, and the question >that started this thread. Do I have an emulated one? Let's start with something simpler: like files. How are you testing Dirvish with an emulated filesystem? But, I think more on-point to what you're saying is that we don't have a really good infrastructure for automated machine-level (or macro-level) testing in Perl -- most of the focus has been on unit tests. (To be fair, most automated test infrastructures (AFAIK) really only focus on unit tests.) And really, we only need one such (cross-platform) beast, since all you really need to do is launch the test program in a sandbox and verify that the right changes to the environment happen. The simplest and most accurate way to do this is to fork the universe with a copy-on-write strategy and pipe the state of the child universe up to the parent before killing the child (thus, smoking hardware and/or money in the parallel universe is ok.) I'm not sure if the Perl community has the advanced physics mindshare needed for that, so we'll probably end up with something more approximate (and therefore fallible.) As for the general case unit-testing vs macro testing, consider the difference in structure between these two programs: --- # program 1 print "hello world\n"; --- # program 2 #!/usr/bin/perl # Copyright (C) 2006 Eric L. Wilhelm use warnings; use strict; =head1 NAME hello - greets the world =cut package bin::hello; use Getopt::Helpful; sub main { my (@args) = @_; my $hopt = Getopt::Helpful->new( usage => 'CALLER [options]', '+help', ); $hopt->Get_from(\@args); # do something with $hopt->opts or what's left of @args # (like maybe assign a filehandle) my $fh = \*STDOUT; print_hello($fh); } sub print_hello { my ($fh) = @_; print $fh "hello world\n"; } package main; if($0 eq ($ENV{PAR_ARGV_0} || __FILE__)) { bin::hello::main(@ARGV); } # vi:ts=2:sw=2:et:sta my $package = 'bin::hello'; --- The latter does the same as the former (for now) but is ready to be gracefully expanded into a large system without turning into spaghetti code on day 2. Here's what happens to the first program if you're not careful. --- # program 1 if(@ARGV) { $thing_to_greet = shift(@ARGV); } if(@ARGV) { $how_to_greet = shift(@ARGV); } if(@ARGV) { $where_to_greet = shift(@ARGV); } if($where_to_greet) { open(FILE, ">$where_to_greet"); print FILE "hello world\n"; } if($how_to_greet) { print "$how_to_greet world"; # maybe throw in a goto while you're at it, right? } if($thing_to_greet) { print "hellow $thing_to_greet\n"; } print "hello world\n"; --- I call "not it!". How do you test that? I can tell you how to test my original "well-formed" example: --- use Test::More 'no_plan'; my $package = require("./bin/hello"); my $prints = eval("\\&$package}::print_hello"); my $string; open(my $fh, '>', \$string); $prints->($fh); like($string, qr/hello/); --- Sure, it needs more tests. It also needs more features. If you wanted, you could even develop your little scripts in test-first mode. I don't recommend that in most cases. In fact, I don't recommend doing the above "my $prints = ..." junk either. But at least you can gracefully test it, and if you define a package in your script, you can test the package. Plus, when you're ready for modules, you just cut and paste and twiddle a few names, add a bit of "use ", etc. Even as it is, we still need to test bin::hello::main() to get full coverage. An alternative is to break it into smaller pieces, but if you're talking to a network or etc., you'll still never get complete coverage until you have a (correctly) fully emulated environment. Back to the hackjob example: Once the code grows into a tangled mess, how do you refactor it and know that it does the same thing as before? (or at least, know that what is does differently is because you meant it to be that way.) How do you check code coverage on it? --Eric -- "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." --Donald Knuth --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From schwern at gmail.com Fri Jul 14 16:04:08 2006 From: schwern at gmail.com (Michael G Schwern) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:04:08 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] The CPAN indexer and $VERSION Message-ID: <313c1d130607141604y797b15bk3b3ce6a3f5358df0@mail.gmail.com> Over on perl-qa at perl.org there was a long discussion on how to get the version of a module. Since we had all that discussion about module versioning at the last meeting, folks might be interested to know that the CPAN indexer now prefers to get its versioning information from the META.yml file before grubbing its way through the code. Here's the tail end of that discussion. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.qa/6439 This means that if you spit out a decent META.yml file you don't have to worry about convoluting your $VERSION declaration to match what CPAN likes. You just have to worry about MakeMaker or Module::Build, whichever you're using. Module::Build produces a complete META.yml with version information for the entire distribution (the version field) as well as each individual file (provides). http://search.cpan.org/src/KWILLIAMS/Module-Build-0.2801/META.yml MakeMaker just does it for the distrubtion. http://search.cpan.org/src/MSCHWERN/ExtUtils-MakeMaker-6.30/META.yml From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Fri Jul 14 21:12:56 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:12:56 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] MOTD -- Moose (Fwd: [Jifty-commit] r1583 - in jifty/branches/moose) Message-ID: <200607142112.56596.ewilhelm@cpan.org> I just saw this and thought I would share it with everyone. Don't worry, I don't really have enough time and information to actually post a Module Of The Day on a regular basis. Check out http://search.cpan.org/~stevan/Moose-0.11/lib/Moose.pm Moose - A complete modern object system for Perl 5 The rest is a snipped highlight of the diffs. --Eric ------------------------------------------------------- Author: audreyt ... Log: * Class::Accessor now goes away. ... -sub accessors { - shift->SUPER::accessors, - qw(url escape_label tooltip continuation call returns submit preserve_state render_as_button render_as_link); -} -__PACKAGE__->mk_accessors( - qw(url escape_label tooltip continuation call returns submit preserve_state render_as_button render_as_link) -); +use Moose; +has url => qw( is rw isa Str ); +has escape_label => qw( is rw isa Bool ); +has tooltip => qw( is rw isa Str ); +has continuation => qw( is rw isa Any ); # Jifty::Continuation | Str +has call => qw( is rw isa Any ); # Jifty::Continuation | Str +has returns => qw( is rw isa HashRef ); +has submit => qw( is rw isa ArrayRef ); +has preserve_state => qw( is rw isa Str ); +has render_as_button => qw( is rw isa Str ); +has render_as_link => qw( is rw isa Str ); +no Moose; ... _______________________________________________ Jifty-commit mailing list Jifty-commit at lists.jifty.org http://lists.jifty.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/jifty-commit ------------------------------------------------------- -- "Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book." --Ronald Reagan --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sun Jul 16 15:03:40 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:03:40 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: [pm_groups] [Fwd: Lightning talks at OSCON 2006: Announcement for distribution] Message-ID: <200607161503.40463.ewilhelm@cpan.org> ---------- Forwarded Message: ---------- Subject: [pm_groups] [Fwd: Lightning talks at OSCON 2006: Announcement for distribution] Date: Sunday 16 July 2006 09:04 am From: Dave Cross To: pm_groups at pm.org -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Lightning talks at OSCON 2006: Announcement for distribution Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:29:53 -0400 From: Mark Jason Dominus Organization: Plover Systems To: user_groups at pm.org Please distribute this to your Perl Mongers groups. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: OSCON 2006 Lightning talks deadline extended There is still time to propose a lightning talk for OSCON 2006. The deadline has been extended through Monday, 25 July. Lightning Talks at the 2006 O'Reilly Open Source Convention Lightning talks are brief (5-minute) talks that focus on a single example, idea, project, or technique. Lightning talks do not attempt to cover all aspects of their subject matter, but rather to present one facet of the idea clearly and succinctly. To submit a proposal for a lightning talk, please send your proposed title and an abstract of up to four sentences to: osc-lt-2006-submit at plover.com For more complete information, visit: http://perl.plover.com/lt/osc2006/ Thanks. -- Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org pm_groups mailing list pm_groups at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups ------------------------------------------------------- -- "It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object to realize that you are in a hurry." --Ralph's Observation --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From selena at chrisking.com Wed Jul 19 11:25:51 2006 From: selena at chrisking.com (Selena Deckelmann) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:25:51 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] PostgreSQL Users Group Meeting TODAY! 7pm Message-ID: <1dd56358646d69db315dc846c2205a02@chrisking.com> Today's the day! See you tonight! PL/pgSQL presented by David Wheeler, Kineticode July 19, 2006 - 7pm Location: FreeGeek 1731 SE 10th Ave, 97214 Agenda: * OSCON Meetup? * Propaganda for OSCON * Meeting Day change * David's presentation Thank you David for offering to give a talk! After the presentation, I invite you all over to the Lucky Lab (within walking distance). The Tour de France party is at the NW Lucky Lab location this year, so I think the bar will be less crowded. I've put up details about the meeting, and republished David's introduction on the pdxpug blog -- http://pugs.postgresql.org/pdx/ Sorry if this is too many reminders for some of you... We've found over on the Perl mailing list that more messages help get more people to the meeting! -selena From alan at clueserver.org Wed Jul 19 11:33:02 2006 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON events for those of us who cannot afford OSCON? Message-ID: Erik Willhelm was mentioning organizing some events for those of us who cannot afford OSCON this year. (I bought a house, so I am broke now.) Any movement on that? -- "I want to live just long enough to see them cut off Darl's head and stick it on a pike as a reminder to the next ten generations that some things come at too high a price. I would look up into his beady eyes and wave, like this... (*wave*!). Can your associates arrange that for me, Mr. McBride?" - Vir "Flounder" Kotto, Sr. VP, IBM Empire. From allison at perl.org Wed Jul 19 12:03:36 2006 From: allison at perl.org (Allison Randal) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:03:36 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON events for those of us who cannot afford OSCON? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44BE8208.5090900@perl.org> alan wrote: > Erik Willhelm was mentioning organizing some events for those of us who > cannot afford OSCON this year. (I bought a house, so I am broke now.) > > Any movement on that? There is a free sub-conference all week within OSCON: http://oscamp.org Allison From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Wed Jul 19 12:28:52 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:28:52 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON events for those of us who cannot afford OSCON? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200607191228.53509.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from alan # on Wednesday 19 July 2006 11:33 am: >Eric Wilhelm was mentioning organizing some events for those of us > who cannot afford OSCON this year. >Any movement on that? Well, the movement starts when you get there, but at this point you have to bring your own coffee. I believe you still need to register. # from Eric Wilhelm on Friday 07 July 2006 12:47 am: >Remember to register on the oscon site before Monday if you want > coffee and snacks at oscamp. See http://oscamp.org/Registration for > details. But maybe I'm in your killfile? That went to 2 lists. There's the possibility that we'll have a presentation about the perl.org infrastructure on Monday night, but I haven't been able to confirm that rumor yet. Any strong opinions on whether we do that in the OSCamp space at the convention center vs Free Geek? If it falls through, Alan will be giving a presentation on finding speakers :-) --Eric -- "Everything goes wrong all at once." --Quantized Revision of Murphy's Law --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From alan at clueserver.org Wed Jul 19 13:07:19 2006 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON events for those of us who cannot afford OSCON? In-Reply-To: <200607191228.53509.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607191228.53509.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > # from alan > # on Wednesday 19 July 2006 11:33 am: > >> Eric Wilhelm was mentioning organizing some events for those of us >> who cannot afford OSCON this year. >> Any movement on that? > > Well, the movement starts when you get there, but at this point you have > to bring your own coffee. I believe you still need to register. OK. Done. > # from Eric Wilhelm on Friday 07 July 2006 12:47 am: >> Remember to register on the oscon site before Monday if you want >> coffee and snacks at oscamp. See http://oscamp.org/Registration for >> details. > > But maybe I'm in your killfile? That went to 2 lists. Or I missed it since my brain has been eaten by packing/moving/unpacking. > There's the possibility that we'll have a presentation about the > perl.org infrastructure on Monday night, but I haven't been able to > confirm that rumor yet. > > Any strong opinions on whether we do that in the OSCamp space at the > convention center vs Free Geek? > > If it falls through, Alan will be giving a presentation on finding > speakers :-) Just follow the wires. -- "I want to live just long enough to see them cut off Darl's head and stick it on a pike as a reminder to the next ten generations that some things come at too high a price. I would look up into his beady eyes and wave, like this... (*wave*!). Can your associates arrange that for me, Mr. McBride?" - Vir "Flounder" Kotto, Sr. VP, IBM Empire. From david at kineticode.com Wed Jul 19 13:24:24 2006 From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:24:24 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON events for those of us who cannot afford OSCON? In-Reply-To: References: <200607191228.53509.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <64DFE58D-B56D-47DE-9816-EC98D76ABD5C@kineticode.com> On Jul 19, 2006, at 13:07, alan wrote: >> If it falls through, Alan will be giving a presentation on finding >> speakers :-) > > Just follow the wires. Wifi, baby. Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha! Ahem. David From ptkwt at aracnet.com Wed Jul 19 16:30:26 2006 From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON events for those of us who cannot afford OSCON? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, alan wrote: > Erik Willhelm was mentioning organizing some events for those of us who > cannot afford OSCON this year. (I bought a house, so I am broke now.) > > Any movement on that? > You're welcome to come over to FOSCON II: The Ruby Rodeo on Wednesday evening next week (the 26th) @7:30PM at FreeGeek. Free Pizza & drinks. Sure it's Ruby oriented, but Perl folks are welcome. Phil From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jul 20 18:55:05 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (The Dread Parrot) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:55:05 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: B&N 40% Off Sale Continues, but Apress Photo Contest Ends Message-ID: <200607201855.05487.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Lucky for you all, I gave that the dockside cabbage test. Snapping pictures of yourself doing weird things in front of endcaps sounded a bit fishy. So, no "nanos for acting like nuts", guess they're going to stick to selling books. ---------- Forwarded Message: ---------- Subject: B&N 40% Off Sale Continues, but Apress Photo Contest Ends Date: Thursday 20 July 2006 02:39 pm From: Apress Newsletters To: scratchcomputing at gmail.com Contrary to our earlier announcement, Apress is immediately withdrawing the photo contest component from the Barnes & Noble 40% Off Summer Promotion. (But the 40% savings off select Apress and friends of ED titles is still in effect through August 9, 2006.) In an effort to create a visual and dynamic experience, Apress unintentionally violated the Barnes & Noble in-store photography policy. We regret any inconvenience this may have caused them and wish to apologize. We hope to devise an alternative dynamic and visual component every bit as interesting as the original photo contest. Please continue to check back for any updates about a subsequent contest: http://www.apress.com/promo/bnj/. Barnes & Noble will continue to feature ten select Apress and friends of ED titles at 40% off the list price. Additional Apress and friends of ED titles at 40% off are available online only from www.bn.com/apress. To find the closest Barnes & Noble store, and to read about featured titles, visit http://www.apress.com/promo/bnj/. Thank you for your understanding and patronage of our great partner, Barnes & Noble. Sincerely, Apress and friends of ED ------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded Message: ---------- Subject: 40% Off Select Apress and friends of ED Titles at B&N--Through August 9, 2006 Date: Wednesday 12 July 2006 11:21 am From: Apress Newsletter To: scratchcomputing at gmail.com Your time and money are valuable so we'll keep this short: Through August 9, 2006, you can buy select Apress and friends of ED titles at 40% off the list price at your local Barnes & Noble store. (Additional Apress and friends of ED titles at 40% off are available online only from www.bn.com/apress.) To find the closest Barnes & Noble store, and to read about featured titles, visit http://www.apress.com/promo/bnj/. Check out the promotional book display at your local Barnes & Noble and take a quick picture of yourself there. Then head over to http://www.apress.com/promo/bn/index.html and upload your image for a chance to win **an iPod nano.** Shopping has never been so rewarding! Already a fan of Apress and friends of ED books? Then you can help us spread the word about the Barnes & Noble 40% off promotion to your colleagues, peers, and friends. You can download a medallion as well as link to us here: http://www.apress.com/promo/bnj/. Thank you in advance! Apress and friends of ED ------------------------------------------------------- -- Minimum wage help gives you minimum service. --David Schomer --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jul 20 18:56:23 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (The Dread Parrot) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:56:23 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: get the word out Message-ID: <200607201856.24191.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Time to fire-up those blog bots. Psst. OSCON/OSCamp starts Monday. ---------- Forwarded Message: ---------- Subject: get the word out Date: Thursday 20 July 2006 11:34 am From: Allison Randal To: alias+oscamp-planning at wgz.org I've made a radar blog post about OSCamp: I'd like to make another one about all the local open source events happening during the OSCON week. Here's what I know of so far: FOSCON II PDX PHP event with Rasmus Perl Foundation event PDX.pm event with Robert Spier OSU OSL party Keith Lofstrom's walking tour of Portland to Free Geek FLOSS Foundations meeting Monday and Tuesday What else is going on during the week? Also, are any of you interested in blogging the daily highlights of OSCamp or can you suggest people in your groups who might be? If people send me links to their blog entries, we can get a few a day included on the conference news site, and the rest I'll pass around the conferences team (to start planting the seed of excitement for OSCamp next year). Allison ------------------------------------------------------- -- Atavism n: The recurrence of any peculiarity or disease of an ancestor in a subsequent generation, usually due to genetic recombination. --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Thu Jul 20 20:03:57 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Seven till Seven) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:03:57 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Shirts and a Special Meeting at 6:53pm Monday, July 24th Message-ID: <200607202003.57804.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Monday, July 24th 6:53pm at FreeGeek, 1741 SE 10th Ave Topic: Perl.org -- what it is, does, has and how you can help. We've invited Robert Spier, the White Camel Award-winning co-administrator of perl.org to speak to us on Monday. Robert is likely very busy and the current word on this talk is "... and no promises..." so we'll just have to see what happens. Please bring any questions you have about the services, hardware, backers, and administration of perl.org. Robert is swamped with other OSCON activity and I don't believe that he will have prepared a presentation. There may or may not be a guest speaker, but there will certainly be a meeting. I think if we combine the Heisenberg uncertainty principle with energy-matter conservation and add beer that we'll come up with something like "meetings cannot be created or destroyed, but can be moved to bars and there might be a cat in the box in either case." If anyone can help ferry out-of-town guests from the convention center, please let me know (or better yet, volunteer to coordinate the ferry service.) Who wants to stand outside rooms 255 and 256 at the convention center with a sign ("Ask me about pdx.pm") at around 4:45? When is the final dress rehearsal for module science theatre 3000? And, supposedly couriers all over the country are scrambling to round-up and deliver nine large shirtblanks to Northeast Portland at around 11am tomorrow. Thus, we will have shirts available on Monday night. Bring $25 cash (or a check made-out to me) and make sure to tell me whether you had reserved a shirt so I can check you off. If you haven't yet reserved a shirt (and gotten a confirmation), please send your YAML ASAP or you may have to wait until we print more. I did order some extra, but more reservations have come in since then. --Eric -- http://pdx.pm.org From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Fri Jul 21 01:26:27 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Seven till Seven) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 01:26:27 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Shirts and a Special Meeting at 6:53pm Monday, July 24th In-Reply-To: <200607202003.57804.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607202003.57804.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <200607210126.27740.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Location change! The good news is that we definitely have a speaker. ? Monday, July 24th 6:53pm in the OSCamp space (room E141 at the Oregon Convention Center) Topic: Behind the Scenes at Perl.org with Robert Spier Now all we need is suggestions for nearby bars. --Eric -- http://pdx.pm.org From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Fri Jul 21 21:04:44 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (The Shirt Monger) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:04:44 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] shirts have landed Message-ID: <200607212104.44546.ewilhelm@cpan.org> http://pdx.pm.org/res/img/shirt2006-a.png http://pdx.pm.org/res/img/shirt2006-b.png There's still time to reserve yours. --Eric -- http://pdx.pm.org From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Fri Jul 21 23:39:29 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (The Dread Parrot) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:39:29 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Fwd: [pm_groups] OSCON: TPF Booth Message-ID: <200607212339.29503.ewilhelm@cpan.org> It looks like TPF is sharing a booth with us :-) Anybody else want to help? http://oscon.kwiki.org/index.cgi?TPFVolunteers Thanks, Eric ---------- Forwarded Message: ---------- Subject: [pm_groups] OSCON: TPF Booth Date: Friday 21 July 2006 09:57 pm From: "David H. Adler" To: PM Group list Thanks for forwarding my request for volunteers to your groups. I'm getting ready to leave for Portland, and I don't know how much time I'll have in the next couple of days for email. Therefore, I'd appreciate it if you could let your people know that they can just sign up to volunteer at http://oscon.kwiki.org/index.cgi?TPFVolunteers and they can introduce themselves when we're there. :-) Thanks again. dha ------------------------------------------------------- -- http://pdx.pm.org From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Mon Jul 24 10:51:45 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Seven till Seven) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:51:45 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Special Meeting tonight at 6:53pm In-Reply-To: <200607202003.57804.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607202003.57804.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <200607241051.45616.ewilhelm@cpan.org> ? Monday, July 24th 6:53pm in the OSCamp space (room E141 at the Oregon Convention Center) Topic: Behind the Scenes at Perl.org with Robert Spier I also have shirts. If you're around this afternoon, please find me then so that the load gets progressively lighter. I'll be the guy with the enormous blue bag. --Eric -- http://pdx.pm.org From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Mon Jul 24 18:20:35 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:20:35 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] tonight's meeting is not at freegeek Message-ID: <2fa716eb0607241820m3de2f9bbof55fb49ffad2f643@mail.gmail.com> convention center -- http://scratchcomputing.com From jeff at vpservices.com Wed Jul 26 19:37:35 2006 From: jeff at vpservices.com (Jeff Zucker) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:37:35 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Open Source in Venezuela Message-ID: <44C826EF.6040600@vpservices.com> The event I mentioned last week will be this Friday, the place has changed. If you can't make our spot at OSCON (Thursday 4:30), please come to this public event. *Software Libre and the Bolivarian Revolution* /Friday July 28, 7 PM 311 N. Ivy St. (see http://liberty-hall.org/location.html for directions) / Free and Open Source Software (Software Libre) developers in Venezuela are actively exploring ways that software can be used to further the social goals of the Bolivarian movement and the Chavez government. Come hear from people involved first hand in the new Information Technology law, in projects using software to increase transparency and citizen participation in government, in the move for open Science in the public interest, and in the move to support worker-control and local industry through software development work cooperatives. Speakers will include Alejandro Imass, Lino Ramirez and Jeff Zucker. -- Jeff From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Fri Jul 28 01:46:43 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 01:46:43 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] invert your internets with perl Message-ID: <200607280146.43349.ewilhelm@cpan.org> I wonder whether the wget/mogrify system calls are more efficient than LWP/Image::Magick. http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html Imagine the tech-support calls to MS from next door! --Eric -- Speak softly and carry a big carrot. --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From krisb at ring.org Fri Jul 28 09:45:04 2006 From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pdx-pm] invert your internets with perl In-Reply-To: <200607280146.43349.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: It would be pretty funny to do the wrong page randomly, then give the right page on refresh. Make a 'flakey' problem. =) -Kris On Fri, 28 Jul 2006, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > I wonder whether the wget/mogrify system calls are more efficient than > LWP/Image::Magick. > > http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html > > Imagine the tech-support calls to MS from next door! > > --Eric > -- > Speak softly and carry a big carrot. > --------------------------------------------------- > http://scratchcomputing.com > --------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > > > !DSPAM:44c9cc61155991811397543! > > From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sun Jul 30 17:04:00 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:04:00 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] What I Learned at OSCON -- August meeting announcement Message-ID: <200607301704.00740.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Actually, what *you* learned at OSCON (all I got was ack.) Wed, August 9th 6:53pm at FreeGeek. A lot of us went to OSCON and/or the activities around it this year. Of course it is impossible for any one person to have caught everything interesting, so the August meeting will be a lightning-round of informational tidbits. What did you learn in the tutorials, sessions, hallway, and exhibits? What was the coolest thing Damian taught you about vim? What were the coolest sessions? How did your presentation go? When should we short our MS stock? Who threw the best parties? Where was the best beer/food? Who did you meet and what are they working on? Why are pdx.pm shirts so popular with the ladies? If you didn't go to OSCON, you may be asked what you learned at notOSCON, but come anyway and catch-up on the latest. Bring at least one or two buzzwords or URLs. If you want to talk for a couple minutes about one thing, there will probably be time. We'll try to go around once or twice. At the end we'll have a handful of possible topics for future meetings and a whole pile of conversation starters for the bar. --Eric -- Chicken farmer's observation: Clunk is the past tense of cluck. --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From andy at petdance.com Sun Jul 30 18:24:10 2006 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:24:10 -0500 Subject: [Pdx-pm] What I Learned at OSCON -- August meeting announcement In-Reply-To: <200607301704.00740.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607301704.00740.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <1D62D5C4-92E5-4B49-BA38-369E22FF15C1@petdance.com> On Jul 30, 2006, at 7:04 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > Actually, what *you* learned at OSCON (all I got was ack.) My program "ack" or some other ack? xoa -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sun Jul 30 21:18:09 2006 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 21:18:09 -0700 Subject: [Pdx-pm] What I Learned at OSCON -- August meeting announcement In-Reply-To: <1D62D5C4-92E5-4B49-BA38-369E22FF15C1@petdance.com> References: <200607301704.00740.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <1D62D5C4-92E5-4B49-BA38-369E22FF15C1@petdance.com> Message-ID: <200607302118.09837.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Andy Lester # on Sunday 30 July 2006 06:24 pm: >> Actually, what *you* learned at OSCON (all I got was ack.) > >My program "ack" or some other ack? ack --thpppt You gave it away. Now I've got to think of another topic! --Eric -- There's more than one way to have a slogan. --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From andy at petdance.com Sun Jul 30 21:22:47 2006 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:22:47 -0500 Subject: [Pdx-pm] What I Learned at OSCON -- August meeting announcement In-Reply-To: <200607302118.09837.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200607301704.00740.ewilhelm@cpan.org> <1D62D5C4-92E5-4B49-BA38-369E22FF15C1@petdance.com> <200607302118.09837.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: <6C2BB7C1-6B79-4306-8C10-7020479DB88A@petdance.com> On Jul 30, 2006, at 11:18 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > ack --thpppt You gave it away. Now I've got to think of another > topic! Well, here's hoping that you find it useful. I hope? -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance