From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun  1 09:40:13 2005
From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:40:13 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June?
In-Reply-To: <31086b2405052717187b7949f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<31086b2405052717187b7949f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>

# The following was supposedly scribed by
# Tom Phoenix
# on Friday 27 May 2005 05:18 pm:

>Would lightning talks be a possibility?

I could probably do one on Getopt::Modern by that date if anyone is 
interested.

Also CAD::Drawing if anyone is interested in that.

--Eric
-- 
"If you dig it, it's yours." 
                      -- An old village poet (via Al Pacino)
---------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------

From krisb at ring.org  Wed Jun  1 15:10:47 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:10:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June?
In-Reply-To: <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506011510230.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>


	CAD::Drawing sounds interesting.

-Kris

On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> # The following was supposedly scribed by
> # Tom Phoenix
> # on Friday 27 May 2005 05:18 pm:
>
> >Would lightning talks be a possibility?
>
> I could probably do one on Getopt::Modern by that date if anyone is
> interested.
>
> Also CAD::Drawing if anyone is interested in that.
>
> --Eric
> --
> "If you dig it, it's yours."
>                       -- An old village poet (via Al Pacino)
> ---------------------------------------------
>     http://scratchcomputing.com
> ---------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
>
> !DSPAM:429de4d6168151364174755!
>
>


From schwern at pobox.com  Thu Jun  2 01:46:11 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:46:11 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perlcast
Message-ID: <20050602084611.GA17145@windhund.schwern.org>

I got this email asking me to do a "Perlcast" about one of my modules
on the Phalanx list.  MakeMaker, Test::More, Class::WhiteHole and/or
Class::Data::Inheritable.  This is the first I've heard of Perlcast (I'm a
little fuzzy on the whole "podcast" thing, too) and I'm not entirely sure
what they want me to say about the modules... but it got me thinking.  We're
short a speaker and topic.  Would you folks be interested in hearing about
any of the above and recording it?


----- Forwarded message from Perl Podcast <perlcast at gmail.com> -----

From: Perl Podcast <perlcast at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:22:30 -0500
To: mschwern at cpan.org
Subject: Audio about Class-Data-Inheritable, Class-WhiteHole, ExtUtils-MakeMaker, and Test-Simple for Perlcast
Reply-To: Perl Podcast <perlcast at gmail.com>

Hi Michael,

Sorry to bother you, but Class-Data-Inheritable, Class-WhiteHole,
ExtUtils-MakeMaker, and Test-Simple have shown up on a list of modules
that I am covering in Perlcast.  Perlcast (http://perlcast.com) is a
podcast that focuses on the Perl programming language.  Recently, a
segment was added where modules found in the Phalanx 100 are being
discussed.  So far, I've been trying to do the talks on the modules,
but definitely don't do them justice.  This is where I hope that you
will help me and at the same time promote your modules by providing an
audio clip of you talking about them.  If you will provide the audio,
I will include that audio in the podcast in place of my talk :)  I try
to go over one module per show... just thought that I would throw that
in since you have more then one module on the list.  I can cut a
single track into multiple segments or you can send multiple tracks or
you can jumble them all up if you really want to.

If you would like to record your own segment please do one of the following:
	1) Reply to this email with an attached audio clip or link to a clip
	2) Skype 'perlcast' and leave a message
	3) Call US 1.501.358.4143 and leave a message
	4) Email me back so that I can call you and record the conversation
	5) Use some other way of sending audio to me that I didn't mention

Thank you for taking the time to consider doing this,
Josh McAdams


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.
	-- "Lords and Ladies" by Terry Prachett

From david at kineticode.com  Thu Jun  2 10:39:01 2005
From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:39:01 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perlcast
In-Reply-To: <20050602084611.GA17145@windhund.schwern.org>
References: <20050602084611.GA17145@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <D48E4118-749E-478B-9FF5-A1A158EAEA25@kineticode.com>

On Jun 2, 2005, at 01:46 , Michael G Schwern wrote:

> I got this email asking me to do a "Perlcast" about one of my modules
> on the Phalanx list.  MakeMaker, Test::More, Class::WhiteHole and/or
> Class::Data::Inheritable.  This is the first I've heard of Perlcast  
> (I'm a
> little fuzzy on the whole "podcast" thing, too) and I'm not  
> entirely sure
> what they want me to say about the modules... but it got me  
> thinking.  We're
> short a speaker and topic.  Would you folks be interested in  
> hearing about
> any of the above and recording it?

He must be making the rounds of PDXers. He interviewed Allison last  
week, and I'll be doing an interview about Bricolage later today.

I think it was announced on use Per a bit ago...yes, here:

   http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/22/2241233

Cheers,

David
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 3994 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20050602/11cfdf75/smime.bin

From andy at petdance.com  Thu Jun  2 11:38:40 2005
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:38:40 -0500
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perlcast
In-Reply-To: <D48E4118-749E-478B-9FF5-A1A158EAEA25@kineticode.com>
References: <20050602084611.GA17145@windhund.schwern.org>
	<D48E4118-749E-478B-9FF5-A1A158EAEA25@kineticode.com>
Message-ID: <20050602183840.GA18543@petdance.com>

On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 10:39:01AM -0700, David Wheeler (david at kineticode.com) wrote:
> He must be making the rounds of PDXers. He interviewed Allison last  
> week, and I'll be doing an interview about Bricolage later today.

And he hit me up to talk about testing stuff, too.

-- 
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Thu Jun  2 11:45:07 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:45:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June?
In-Reply-To: <200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<31086b2405052717187b7949f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

I've heard several suggestions, but it doesn't seem that anyone is really
biting at the bit for any of these offers.  Here they are, for a recap:

- Jeff Zucker teaching juggling
- Tom Phoenix talking about MediaWiki
- Lightning talks
- a general wiki talk

Any others?  Any more suggestions?

Josh



From tex at off.org  Thu Jun  2 11:56:09 2005
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:56:09 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June?
In-Reply-To: <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<31086b2405052717187b7949f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <20050602185609.GA1934@gblx.net>

On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 11:45:07AM -0700, Josh Heumann wrote:
> I've heard several suggestions, but it doesn't seem that anyone is really
> biting at the bit for any of these offers.  Here they are, for a recap:
> 
> - Jeff Zucker teaching juggling
> - Tom Phoenix talking about MediaWiki
> - Lightning talks
> - a general wiki talk
> 
> Any others?  Any more suggestions?
> 

	I was thinking about doing an introductory presentation on
boosting performance w/ Inline C.
	Seems like I was having this odd dream about Perl last night. Maybe
if I can flush out what the dream was about I'll give a presentation on that.

	*shrug* well, 5 minutes wasted, how bad could it be...

	Austin

From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  2 12:24:07 2005
From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:24:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June? (Your chance for fame and glory!)
In-Reply-To: <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <20050602192407.79885.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

Since I'll have an out-of-town guest, I'm afraid I won't be able to
make this meeting.  Otherwise, I'd talk about the Perl 6 Cookbook. 
However, it's straightforward and anyone with interest can learn enough
to do a lightning talk.  I'd love to see someone jump on this.

Basically, Tim Bunce said we should port the Cookbook to Perl 6 (for
something called PLEAC, which I won't go into).  You can read Autrijus'
comments about this at http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal/24039

I started porting the examples
(http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal/24092), but work caught up with
me and I had to stop.  A few others pitched in, but momentum was lost. 
However, you can browse what little there is at
http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/examples/cookbook/ (strings, arrays,
and hashes mostly).

Pugs is far enough along that this can easily be fleshed out.  If
anyone sends Autrijus a new recipe, he'll probably send you a committer
bit in return, thus letting you add recipes to your heart's content.

This could be one of the most important Perl 6 projects out there.  How
many of you reach for the Cookbook when you're trying to figure out how
to do something new?

Many people would be indebted to you for your work on this :)

Cheers,
Ovid

-- 
If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send
follow up questions to the list.

Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun  2 12:54:36 2005
From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:54:36 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June?
In-Reply-To: <40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>

# The following was supposedly scribed by
# Josh Heumann
# on Thursday 02 June 2005 11:45 am:

>it doesn't seem that anyone is really
>biting at the bit for any of these offers.

I'm game for a couple of Lightning talks (CAD::Drawing and/or 
Getopt::Modern).  I could also talk about the live-install scheme that 
I've been working on for integrating Perl development with version 
control.

Michael:  How long would the podcast(s) be?

Austin:  How long would the Inline::C talk be?

If the answer is "short", I could also follow the latter with a 
discussion about Inline::Python, Inline::CPP, or an advanced Inline::C 
(data structures and other fun stuff) if there's any interest.

--Eric
-- 
"...the bourgeoisie were hated from both ends: by the proles, because 
they had all the money, and by the intelligentsia, because of their 
tendency to spend it on lawn ornaments." 
                                          -- Neal Stephenson
---------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------

From tex at off.org  Thu Jun  2 12:56:10 2005
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:56:10 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June?
In-Reply-To: <200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20050602195610.GD1934@gblx.net>

On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 12:54:36PM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> # The following was supposedly scribed by
> # Josh Heumann
> # on Thursday 02 June 2005 11:45 am:
> 
> >it doesn't seem that anyone is really
> >biting at the bit for any of these offers.
> 
> I'm game for a couple of Lightning talks (CAD::Drawing and/or 
> Getopt::Modern).  I could also talk about the live-install scheme that 
> I've been working on for integrating Perl development with version 
> control.
> 
> Michael:  How long would the podcast(s) be?
> 
> Austin:  How long would the Inline::C talk be?
> 
> If the answer is "short", I could also follow the latter with a 
> discussion about Inline::Python, Inline::CPP, or an advanced Inline::C 
> (data structures and other fun stuff) if there's any interest.
> 

	The answer is "short" -- it's a lightning talk after all. :-)

	Austin

From schwern at pobox.com  Thu Jun  2 14:04:59 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:04:59 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June?
In-Reply-To: <200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org>

On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 12:54:36PM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> Michael:  How long would the podcast(s) be?

Absolutely no idea.  It largely depends on the module.  Class::Whitehole
can be explained in about 2 minutes.  MakeMaker I can rant about for an
hour. 


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
You are wicked and wrong to have broken inside and peeked at the
implementation and then relied upon it.
	-- tchrist in <31832.969261130 at chthon>

From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  2 14:29:59 2005
From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:29:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June?
In-Reply-To: <20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <20050602212959.62744.qmail@web60816.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael G Schwern <schwern at pobox.com> wrote:
> MakeMaker I can rant about for an hour. 

Yeah, I know.  I know.

:)

Cheers,
Ovid

-- 
If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send
follow up questions to the list.

Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun  2 16:18:14 2005
From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:18:14 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June?
In-Reply-To: <20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org>
References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <200506021618.14505.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>

# The following was supposedly scribed by
# Michael G Schwern
# on Thursday 02 June 2005 02:04 pm:

>It largely depends on the module. ?Class::Whitehole
>can be explained in about 2 minutes.

Is it safe to say that we so-far have 3 people with 1-3 lightning talks 
each then?

How many lightning talks fill a meeting?  (or one meeting less juggling 
time.)

--Eric
-- 
"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious." 
                                -- Murphy's Second Corollary
---------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------

From david at kineticode.com  Thu Jun  2 16:18:01 2005
From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:18:01 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presenter for June?
In-Reply-To: <20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org>
References: <33335.130.94.161.230.1117218677.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<200506010940.13160.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<40119.130.94.161.230.1117737907.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<200506021254.36878.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<20050602210459.GA21357@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <438CD321-D0C8-48FB-8748-B8DDE9B30D7F@kineticode.com>

On Jun 2, 2005, at 14:04 , Michael G Schwern wrote:

> Absolutely no idea.  It largely depends on the module.   
> Class::Whitehole
> can be explained in about 2 minutes.  MakeMaker I can rant about  
> for an
> hour.

I just did my interview. It was about 25 mins, but will likely be cut  
down to under 20.

Cheers,

David
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 3994 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20050602/860f1d74/smime.bin

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Jun  3 08:24:35 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] [Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, June 2]
Message-ID: <43144.130.94.161.230.1117812275.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

Reminder: These books are available to us for reviewing...

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, June 2
From: Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com>
Date: Thu, June 2, 2005 6:17 pm

================================================================
O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders
June 2, 2005
================================================================
-Put Up an O'Reilly OSCON Banner, Get a Free Book
-Put Up an O'Reilly Where 2.0 Conference Banner, Get a Free Book
-Promotional Material Available
-Looking for Web Site or Newsletter Content?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Book Info
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Review books are available
Copies of our books are available for your members to review--
send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on
your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date.
Allow at least four weeks for shipping.


***Please send copies of your book reviews
Email me a copy of your newsletters or book reviews.
For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to:
http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html


***Discount information
Don't forget to remind your members about our 20% discount on O'Reilly,
No Starch, Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, and Syngress
books. Just use code DSUG.


***Group purchases with better discounts are available
Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in
touch with our sales department.

----------------------------------------------------------------
General News
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Put Up an O'Reilly OSCON Banner, Get a Free Book
We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their
web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our
O'Reilly 2005 Open Source Convention banner, I will send you the
O'Reilly book of your choice.

OSCON Banners:
http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/oscon2005/

***Put Up an O'Reilly Where 2.0 Conference Banner, Get a Free Book We're
looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their web
sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our O'Reilly
Where 2.0 Conference banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book of your
choice.

Where 2.0 Conference Banners:
http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/where/


***Promotional Material Available:
The following items are available for your next meeting.
Numbers are limited so please don't wait too long.

Let me know the type and the amount you would like
and I'll do my best.

-O'Reilly Open Source Convention Brochures
-O'Reilly Where 2.0 Conference Brochures
-MAKE Magazine

***Looking for Web Site or Newsletter Content?
Web site and newsletter editors--you can use the sample chapters or
sample hacks we provide online for your group's web site or newsletter.
Just reprint the article and include a URL back to the original page.
You

can find these chapters (if available) on the catalog page for each
book. They are also included in the new release section of each UG
newsletter.

Chapters are added weekly. New titles include "eBay Hacks," "Project
2003 Personal Trainer," "Web Mapping Illustrated," and "Learning Perl."
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/ug_sample_chapters


================================================================
O'Reilly News for User Group Members
June 2, 2005
================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------
Book News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Essential Sharepoint
-Killer Game Programming in Java
-Classic Shell Scripting
-Infosec Career Hacking
-Learning Java, 3rd Edition
-DHTML Utopia
SSH, The Secure Shell: The Definitive Guide, 2nd Edition
-Degunking Linux
-Designing Embedded Hardware, 2nd Edition
-Database in Depth
-MySQL in a Nutshell
-MAKE Subscriptions Available
----------------------------------------------------------------
Upcoming Events
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Adam Goldstein ("AppleScript: The Missing Manual"), SoHo Apple Store,
 New York, NY--June 3
-O'Reilly at Tech Ed 2005, Orlando, FL--Jun 5-10
-O'Reilly at Apple WWDC, San Francisco, CA--June 6-10
-Sinan Si Alhir ("UML in a Nutshell"), UML & Design World 2005,
 Austin, TX--June 13-16
-James Avery ("Visual Studio Hacks") Dayton .NET Developers,
 Fairborn, OH--July 25
----------------------------------------------------------------
Conference News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Registration is Open for the O'Reilly Open Source Convention,
  Portland, OR--August 1-5
-Where 2.0 Conference Registration Open,
  San Francisco, CA--June 29-30
----------------------------------------------------------------
News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-"Cult of Mac" and "Degunking Windows" Win IPPY Awards
-E3 2005: War of the Consoles...Almost
-Mapping the 802.11 Protocol
-Embedded-system Programmers Must Learn the Fundamentals
-Rendering Everything as Text
-A Simpler Ajax Path
-Rexx: Power Through Simplicity
-Learning Lab: Linux/Unix SysAdmin Certificate Special
-An Introduction to Tiger Terminal
-Japan Primer for the Mac Techno-Tourist
-20 Cool Tiger Features You Might Not Have Heard About
-Refactoring Support for Visual Basic 2005
-Ferreting Out Near-Identical Records in Access
-Building Web Parts, Part 1
-Constructing Services with J2EE
-Wire Hibernate Transactions in Spring
-Look Ma--Hands! Choosing and Using MIDI Controllers
-Steve Turnidge: Turning Weed into Green
-Consumer Camera Time-Lapse Movies
-DHTML Utopia: Modern Web Design
-Search Engines Know More Than You Think
-MAKE: Audio, Flickr, and del.icio.us

================================================
Book News
================================================
Did you know you can request a free book to review for your
group? Ask your group leader for more information.

For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html

Don't forget, you can receive 20% off any O'Reilly, No Starch,
Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress book you
purchase directly from O'Reilly.
Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938.
http://www.oreilly.com/

***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at
least $29.95 that go to a single U.S. address. This offer
applies to U.S. delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico. For
more details, go to:
http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html

----------------------------------------------------------------
New Releases
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Essential Sharepoint
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596008805
This comprehensive guide covers all the key topics for getting you
started with Microsoft SharePoint. Learn everything there is to know
about creating a team-oriented website: how to turn it on, set it up,
and set your applications to work with it. Covering hosting choices,
administration, customization, and more, it's ideal for anyone who wants
to improve productivity through information sharing and document
collaboration.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/essentialsp/

Chapter 1, "Why Use SharePoint?" is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/essentialsp/


***Killer Game Programming in Java
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596007302
This comprehensive guide has everything you need to program Java games.
It offers the most thorough coverage of Java 3D available, and clearly
details the older, better-known 2D APIs, 3D sprites, animated 3D
sprites, first-person shooter programming, sound, fractals, and
networked games. This practical book is a must-have for anyone who wants
to create
adrenaline-fueled games in Java.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/killergame/

Chapter 22, "Flocking Boids," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/killergame/chapter/index.html


***Classic Shell Scripting
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596005954
The ability to program and customize the shell quickly, reliably, and
portably is important for anyone operating and maintaining Unix or Linux
systems. This book gives you everything you need to master these
essential skills. The authors provide the tips, tricks, and organized
knowledge necessary to create excellent scripts, as well as warnings of
the traps that can turn your best efforts into bad shell scripts.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/shellsrptg/

Chapter 5, "Pipelines Can Do Amazing Things," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/shellsrptg/chapter/index.html


***Infosec Career Hacking
Publisher: Syngress
ISBN: 1597490113
Do you code for the sheer joy and challenge? If you want to refine your
skills and learn new ones to build an InfoSec career, this book is for
you. The authors have all applied their inherent hacker skills to build
successful InfoSec careers. From them, you will learn about the variety
of available jobs and the skills required to excel in each one.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597490113/


***Learning Java, 3rd Edition
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596008732
This bestselling hands-on tutorial delivers a no-nonsense approach to
Java 5.0 features, such as "generics," loops, and threads. It addresses
all of the important uses of Java, such as web applications, servlets,
and XML, that are increasingly driving enterprise applications. The
accompanying CD includes the Java 5.0 SDK for Windows, Linux, and
Solaris, plus the Eclipse IDE, the NetBeans IDE, and the many example
programs from the book.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/learnjava3/

Chapter 8, "Generics," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/learnjava3/chapter/index.html


***DHTML Utopia
Publisher: SitePoint
ISBN: 0957921896
"DHTML Utopia" is a unique book about using JavaScript, HTML, and CSS
together to create extremely usable, standards compliant and modern
websites as well as updating your current designs to enhance the user
experience.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0957921896/index.html


***SSH, The Secure Shell: The Definitive Guide, 2nd Edition
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596008953
Written for a wide, technical audience, this book covers several
implementations of SSH for different operating systems and computing
environments. Whether you're an individual running your home system or a
corporate network administrator with thousands of users, our
indispensable guide has you covered. It starts with simple installation
and use of SSH, and works its way to in-depth case studies on large,
sensitive computer networks.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/sshtdg2/

Chapter 8, "Per-Account Server Configuration," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/sshtdg2/chapter/index.html


***Degunking Linux
Publisher: Paraglyph
ISBN: 1933097043
This book will help users get their Linux configurations working
efficiently by providing them with a proven and time-saving 12-step
program to get rid of clutter and organize everything from user files to
system upgrades. This is the only book that is completely focused on
helping Linux users learn the causes of sluggish performance and how to
apply smart solutions to improve overall system performance.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1933097043/


***Designing Embedded Hardware, 2nd Edition
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596007558
This book steers a course between books dedicated to writing code for
particular microprocessors and those that stress the philosophy of
embedded system design without providing any practical information.
Loaded with real examples, it also provides a roadmap of the pitfalls
and traps to avoid. If you want to build your own embedded system, or
tweak an existing one, this invaluable book gives you the understanding
and practical skills you need.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/dbhardware2/

Chapter 6, "Building Hardware," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/dbhardware2/chapter/index.html


***Database in Depth
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596100124
This concise guide sheds light on the principles behind the relational
model, giving you an unbiased view that's not influenced by any vendor
or product. Featuring an extensive set of exercises, this book is ideal
not only for database developers and designers, but also for a diverse
field of professionals and academics, including database administrators,
information modelers, database consultants, and more.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/databaseid/

Chapter 1, "Introduction," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/databaseid/chapter/index.html


***MySQL in a Nutshell
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596007892
This book clearly documents every detail you need to master MySQL. In
addition to providing a thorough reference to MySQL statements and
functions, the administrative utilities, and the most popular APIs, this
book even includes several tutorial chapters to help newcomers get
started. This wealth of information is conveniently packed into a
concise, comprehensive, and easy-to-use format.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/mysqlian/

Chapter 6, "Date and Time Functions," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/mysqlian/chapter/index.html


***MAKE Magazine Subscriptions Available
The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you
subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--the first one plus
four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this
great offer for charter subscribers: five volumes for the cost of four.
Subscribe at:
https://www.pubservice.com/MK/Subnew.aspx?PC=MK&PK=M5ZUGLA

================================================
Upcoming Events
================================================
***For more events, please see:
http://events.oreilly.com/


***Adam Goldstein ("AppleScript: The Missing Manual"), SoHo Apple Store,

 New York, NY--June 3
Author Adam is a featured speaker at the SoHo Apple Store from
7:00-9:00pm.
http://www.apple.com/retail/soho/week/20050320.html


***O'Reilly at Tech Ed 2005, Orlando, FL--Jun 5-10
Stop by our booth (#1046/1048), check out our new titles, and say hi to
our authors while you attend Tech Ed. Some of latest books include ".NET
Gotchas" and "Visual Studio Hacks."
http://www.microsoft.com/events/teched2005/default.mspx


***O'Reilly at Apple WWDC, San Francisco, CA--June 6-10
On Tuesday, June 7, grab a tasty bag lunch and spend your lunchtime with
founder and CEO of O???Reilly Media, Tim O???Reilly. Tim will talk about
the innovations that are on his radar, and how Mac developers can begin
distributing the future today.
http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/


***Sinan Si Alhir ("UML in a Nutshell"), UML & Design World 2005,
 Austin, TX--June 13-16
Author Sinan Si Alhir leads two sessions at this event: "Enterprise
Business Modeling" and "The Agile Unified Process (AUP)."
http://www.cmpevents.com/SDUM5/a.asp?option=G&V=3&id=84520


***James Avery ("Visual Studio Hacks") Dayton .NET Developers,
 Fairborn, OH--July 25
Author James discusses getting the most out of Visual Studio's
Integrated Development Environment with his talk titled "Pimp your IDE."
James is the founder of the Cincinnati .NET Users Group and is the
founder and
president of InfoZerk, a software consulting company.
http://www.daytondevgroup.net/schedule.htm

================================================
Conference News
================================================
***Registration is Open for the O'Reilly Open Source Convention,
 Portland, OR--August 1-5
OSCON 2005 explores three deep trends affecting open source: the
commoditization of software, network-enabled collaboration, and software
customizability. Join us at this essential gathering of open source
leaders and practitioners of every persuasion to exchange ideas and push
the boundaries of vital open source technologies. This year, we
introduce the Open Source Business Review, along with a host of other
exciting presentations and events.
http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/

User Group members who register before June 20, 2005 get a double
discount. Use code "os05grpusr" when you register, and receive 15% off
the early registration price.

To register for the conference, go to:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2005/create/ord_os05


***Where 2.0 Conference Registration Open,
  San Francisco, CA--June 29-30
Join us at the first O???Reilly Where 2.0 Conference. Location-based
services and mapping are becoming mainstream technologies. Meanwhile,
innovative new software makes it possible to apply the wealth of new
data to old business problems. Come explore the emerging consumer and
enterprise ecosystems around location-aware technologies that
increasingly impact the way we work and play.
http://conferences.oreilly.com/where/

Use code "whereug" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price.

To register for the conference, go to:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/where2005/create/ord_where

================================================
News From O'Reilly & Beyond
================================================
---------------------
General News
---------------------
***"Cult of Mac" and "Degunking Windows" Win IPPY Awards
Congratulation to No Starch Press and Paraglyph Press for winning the
2005 Independent Publisher Book Awards. No Starch's "The Cult of Mac" by
Leander Kahney won for Most Unique Design and Paraglyph Press's
"Degunking Windows" won in the Computer/Internet category.
http://www.independentpublisher.com/


***E3 2005: War of the Consoles...Almost
E3 is the world's largest video game trade show, which means a lot of
networking and deal brokering. However, E3 is also the first chance for
the average gamer to get a sneak peek at the video games in development.
In a hardcore gamer's world, the flashy and elaborate E3 exhibits are
like Christmas morning--only in May. Stephen Cawood offers this report
on E3 2005.
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2005/05/23/E3expo.html


***Mapping the 802.11 Protocol
A trip to London and a bit of unique inspiration gave Matthew Gast the
ideas that would lead to the first draft of a visual map describing the
relationship between the various components of the 802.11 standard and
related security standards. Matthew details the road he took to the
final version of his 802.11 protocol map. Matthew is the author of
"802.11: The Definitive Guide, 2nd Edition."
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/2005/05/20/80211map.html


***Embedded-system Programmers Must Learn the Fundamentals
No Starch's Randy Hyde's article in the new issue of "EDN Magazine."
Randy is the author of "Write Great Code" and "The Art of Assembly
Language."
http://www.edn.com/article/CA601846.html

---------------------
Open Source
---------------------
***Rendering Everything as Text
Ah, the days of plain-text everything are long gone, what with media
files (hooray!) and encumbered binary blobs (boo!). Is the solution to
give up your comfortable, efficient, and effective text-based tools? No
way. Philip Hollenback proposes that you can render any data format to
meaningful text for mail reading, indexing, and more. Here's how.
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2005/05/26/textonly.html


***A Simpler Ajax Path
After years of hacks, tricks, and workarounds, there's finally a
cross-browser, cross-platform way to communicate between client and
server in web applications. Matthew Eernisse demonstrates how to send
and receive structured data with XMLHttpRequest and shows off some
tricks to make debugging and error handling easier.
http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/05/18/swingxactions.html


***Rexx: Power Through Simplicity
The P-languages get most of the press these days, but they're not the
only dynamic languages in the world. Arguably, Rexx is the grandfather
of them all. It's received little attention in the open source world,
despite several good open source implementations. Howard Fosdick shows
off some of the features of the language with practical examples.
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/05/26/rexx.html


***Learning Lab: Linux/Unix SysAdmin Certificate Special
Learn system administration skills online and receive certification from
the University of Illinois Office of Continuing Education. Courses
include: The Unix File System, Networking and DNS, Unix Services
(including email and web servers), and Scripting for Administrators with
Sed, Awk, and Perl. It's all at the O'Reilly Learning Lab. Enroll and
save 40%.
http://www.oreilly.com/redirector.csp?link=UASys&type=news

---------------------
Mac
---------------------
***An Introduction to Tiger Terminal
Now that you've had a chance to enjoy all of the GUI goodies in Mac OS X
10.4, you might be ready to check out what's happening with the Terminal
app. This article will introduce you to Tiger's Terminal app and CLI
(command-line interface).
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/05/20/terminal1.html


***Japan Primer for the Mac Techno-Tourist
Many of us believe that Japan is the land of geek nirvana. If you're
contemplating a visit to the gadget promise land, you'll enjoy Todd
Ogasawara's report on everything from cell phone coverage to buying Mac
accessories.
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/05/27/japan.html


***20 Cool Tiger Features You Might Not Have Heard About
Even though Tiger has been out for a while now, many of its major
features have nuances that haven't received much press--and there are a
zillion minor tweaks to discuss. Scott Knaster takes you on a tour of
clever, and sometimes even obscure Tiger goodies.
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/05/13/tiger_tips.html

---------------------
Windows/.NET
---------------------
***Refactoring Support for Visual Basic 2005
Microsoft recently announced that they have teamed up with Developer
Express Inc. to release Refactor! for Visual Basic 2005 Beta 2, a free
plugin for Visual Studio that enables Visual Basic developers to
simplify and restructure source code inside of Visual Studio 2005.
Wei-Meng Lee walks you through the new refactoring.
http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2005/05/31/vbrefactoring.html


***Ferreting Out Near-Identical Records in Access
Working with lists of contacts is a common database activity, but as a
list grows, so do the chances for duplicate records. Ken Bluttman shows
one technique for ferreting out these near-identical records in Access
using the InStr function to find when one value in one field is inside
the value of the same field in another record. Ken is the author of
"Access Hacks."
http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/05/24/accesshacks.html


***Building Web Parts, Part 1
Web sites today contain a wealth of information; so much that a poorly
designed site can easily overwhelm users. To better help users cope,
portal web sites today (such as MSN) often organize their data into
discrete units that support a degree of personalization. In this first
of three articles, Wei-Meng Lee discusses how to use Web Parts for user
customization in your ASP.NET 2.0 web sites.
http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2005/05/23/webparts_1.html

---------------------
Java
---------------------
***Constructing Services with J2EE
Web services are a popular means of deploying service-oriented
applications, and the standards in J2EE 1.4 make it easier to develop
services that are portable and interoperable. Debu Panda shows you how,
and takes a look at how things will get easier in J2EE 5.0.
http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/05/25/j2ee-services.html


***Wire Hibernate Transactions in Spring
The proper handling of transactions across multiple data stores,
supporting multiple application flows, is the kind of heavy lifting J2EE
servers were built for. But what if you're using the lighter-weight
Spring framework? Binildas C.A. shows how you can wire Spring and
Hibernate together to achieve the transaction support you desire.
http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/05/18/swingxactions.html

---------------------
Digital Media
---------------------
***Look Ma--Hands! Choosing and Using MIDI Controllers
If you really want to play today's wonderful software instruments, drop
that mouse and grab a dedicated MIDI controller. In this MP3-enhanced
tutorial, you'll hear the dramatic difference controllers make in
musical expressivity, then get buying and usage tips.
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/06/01/controller1.html

***Steve Turnidge: Turning Weed into Green
Go behind the scenes with the co-founder of Weedshare.com, the service
that pays you--and the original artist--to share music. Driven by
ex-Microsoft and Real Networks employees, Weed is totally legal, and
even supports surround sound.
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/05/25/weed.html

***Consumer Camera Time-Lapse Movies
Pocket digicams are great for still photos, and some of them even record
quality video. But you can push the envelope even further with these
devices. Here's how two photo novices created their first time-lapse
production.
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/05/18/timelapse.html

---------------------
Web
---------------------
***DHTML Utopia: Modern Web Design
What do Flickr, Google Suggest, Google Maps, and GMail have in common?
They all employ some of the latest methods in modern, unobtrusive DHTML.
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/dhtml-utopia-modern-web-design


***Search Engines Know More Than You Think
Learn how Google's personalized web search and Yahoo's Mindset work and
how they take searching to a whole new level.
http://www.sitepoint.com/blog-post-view.php?id=268282

---------------------
MAKE
---------------------
***MAKE: Audio
The MAKE Team thought it would be fun to talk with pal Richard Giles in
Australia. They chatted about MAKE Volume 02, E3, Astromechs, VoIP for
the Nintendo DS, NASA's O2 challenge, the XBOX 360, Broadcast Flag part
2, and more. Next up, they interview Jordan Kanarek and Jim Garretson
from roadcasting.org. What's roadcasting? Interactive, collaborative,
mobile radio stations for cars. It could be a glimpse of what's to come
for our daily commutes!
http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/make_podcast/


***MAKE Flickr
Join the MAKE Flickr photo pool today. You never know what you'll see or
what we'll be giving away next! Where else can you see a potato cannon
in action?
http://www.flickr.com/groups/make/pool/


***MAKE del.icio.us
On the MAKE bookmark page, there are over 1,500 links to hacks, mods,
DIY projects, and all-around tinkering goodness. Be a MAKE voyeur and
read what we're reading.
http://del.icio.us/makemagazine

This week's faves include:

Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach
http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/

Abusing Amazon Images
http://aaugh.com/imageabuse.html

WSJ on Gaming
http://www.oreilly.com/go/wsj_on_gaming

How to Stock Your Bar for a Party
http://www.degraeve.com/howto/stock-your-bar.php

***The MAKE blog is available at:
http://www.makezine.com/blog/


================================================
>From Your Peers
===============================================
***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user
groups around the globe are up to:
http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi

Until next time--

Marsee Henon


================================================================
O'Reilly
1005 Gravenstein Highway North
Sebastopol, CA   95472
http://ug.oreilly.com/  http://www.oreilly.com
================================================================




From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Mon Jun  6 18:24:50 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:24:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting this Wednesday
Message-ID: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

Wednesday, June 8th, 2005 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave

Shazam! Lightning Talks!

Here's the list of people I have so far, compiled from the thread last week.

There was some talk of juggling, but I'll let Jeff Zucker or Tom Phoenix
add themselves (I, for one, would love to see a lightning talk on
juggling).

* EricWilhelm, CAD::Drawing
* EricWilhelm, Getopt::Modern
* AustinShulz, Inline::C
* Schwern, Class::Whitehole
* Schwern, MakeMaker

If you're not sure of what a lightning talk is, see the kwiki:
http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?WhatIsALightningTalk

Josh



From dpool at hevanet.com  Tue Jun  7 08:05:07 2005
From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 08:05:07 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Local Governements use of OSS
Message-ID: <1118156708.8723.23.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Kudos to Metro for their use of Perl along with Asterisk, MapServer and
a Beowulf Linux Cluster:

http://www.news4neighbors.net/article.pl?sid=05/06/06/193227

d


From krisb at ring.org  Tue Jun  7 10:22:17 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:22:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting this Wednesday
In-Reply-To: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506071021080.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>


On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Josh Heumann wrote:

> Shazam! Lightning Talks!
> * Schwern, MakeMaker

Sounds like a Thunder and Lightning Talk.

-Kris


From marvin at rectangular.com  Tue Jun  7 17:18:01 2005
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:18:01 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Kinosearch released
Message-ID: <CFE19539-F8D6-4F2B-B797-C11D625D7544@rectangular.com>

Greets,

Kinosearch... has... been... released...

... for months!

http://www.rectangular.com/kinosearch/

I barely told anybody about it before now, though.  An unexpected  
turn of events at Online Highways in early February forced me to  
focus on other tasks, and while I've been able to do development on  
Kinosearch from time to time, launching a project like this requires  
a level of support I wouldn't have been able to provide.

Things are different now.  I quit my job.

Version 0.02 has just been uploaded to CPAN.

For the next month or so, Kinosearch is going to be my top priority.   
The new release implements many new features, including the number  
one request, incremental indexing.

If you'd like to try it out, cut and paste from the sample apps here:

http://www.rectangular.com/kinosearch/docs/devel/Search/Kinosearch/ 
Tutorial.html

See y'all tomorrow,

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/


From david at kineticode.com  Tue Jun  7 18:49:05 2005
From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:49:05 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Kinosearch released
In-Reply-To: <CFE19539-F8D6-4F2B-B797-C11D625D7544@rectangular.com>
References: <CFE19539-F8D6-4F2B-B797-C11D625D7544@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <46A20937-AE92-4CED-A731-9C4B5DBBE6CC@kineticode.com>

On Jun 7, 2005, at 17:18 , Marvin Humphrey wrote:

> Kinosearch... has... been... released...
>
> ... for months!
>
> http://www.rectangular.com/kinosearch/

Hey, congrats anyway. I look forward to seeing the improvements over  
the next month!

Cheers,

David

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Wed Jun  8 12:47:51 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:47:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting tonight
Message-ID: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

Wednesday, June 8th, 2005 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave

Shazam! Lightning Talks!

Here's the list of people I have so far, compiled from the thread last week.

There was some talk of juggling, but I'll let Jeff Zucker or Tom Phoenix
add themselves (I, for one, would love to see a lightning talk on
juggling).  You can add your lightning talk to the kwiki:
http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki

* EricWilhelm, CAD::Drawing
* EricWilhelm, Getopt::Modern
* AustinShulz, Inline::C
* Schwern, Class::Whitehole
* Schwern, MakeMaker

If you're not sure of what a lightning talk is, see the kwiki:
http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?WhatIsALightningTalk

Josh




From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Wed Jun  8 14:07:31 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:07:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Kinosearch released
In-Reply-To: <CFE19539-F8D6-4F2B-B797-C11D625D7544@rectangular.com>
References: <CFE19539-F8D6-4F2B-B797-C11D625D7544@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <57712.130.94.161.230.1118264851.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

This sounds great, and congratluations for getting it out.  I know that
you've introduced it to us already, but do you want to do a lightning talk
on Kinsearch tonight as a refersher?

Josh

<quote who="Marvin Humphrey">
> Greets,
>
> Kinosearch... has... been... released...
>
> ... for months!
>
> http://www.rectangular.com/kinosearch/
>
> I barely told anybody about it before now, though.  An unexpected   turn
> of events at Online Highways in early February forced me to   focus on
> other tasks, and while I've been able to do development on   Kinosearch
> from time to time, launching a project like this requires   a level of
> support I wouldn't have been able to provide.
>
> Things are different now.  I quit my job.
>
> Version 0.02 has just been uploaded to CPAN.
>
> For the next month or so, Kinosearch is going to be my top priority.
> The new release implements many new features, including the number   one
> request, incremental indexing.
>
> If you'd like to try it out, cut and paste from the sample apps here:
>
> http://www.rectangular.com/kinosearch/docs/devel/Search/Kinosearch/
> Tutorial.html
>
> See y'all tomorrow,
>
> Marvin Humphrey
> Rectangular Research
> http://www.rectangular.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list




From schwern at pobox.com  Wed Jun  8 15:22:55 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:22:55 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting this Wednesday
In-Reply-To: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
References: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <20050608222255.GA5366@windhund.schwern.org>

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 06:24:50PM -0700, Josh Heumann wrote:
> * Schwern, MakeMaker
> http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?WhatIsALightningTalk

What can I say in 5 minutes about MakeMaker that you all don't already know?


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
Just call me 'Moron Sugar'.
	http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05182002.shtml

From tex at off.org  Wed Jun  8 15:25:26 2005
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:25:26 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting this Wednesday
In-Reply-To: <20050608222255.GA5366@windhund.schwern.org>
References: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<20050608222255.GA5366@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <20050608222526.GQ1934@gblx.net>

On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 03:22:55PM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 06:24:50PM -0700, Josh Heumann wrote:
> > * Schwern, MakeMaker
> > http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?WhatIsALightningTalk
> 
> What can I say in 5 minutes about MakeMaker that you all don't already know?
> 

	You could tell us what'a going on with --prefix, that's probably
good for a minute. :-)

	Austin

From schwern at pobox.com  Wed Jun  8 15:35:21 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:35:21 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting this Wednesday
In-Reply-To: <20050608222526.GQ1934@gblx.net>
References: <53519.130.94.161.230.1118107490.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<20050608222255.GA5366@windhund.schwern.org>
	<20050608222526.GQ1934@gblx.net>
Message-ID: <20050608223521.GA5382@windhund.schwern.org>

On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 03:25:26PM -0700, Austin Schutz wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 03:22:55PM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 06:24:50PM -0700, Josh Heumann wrote:
> > > * Schwern, MakeMaker
> > > http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?WhatIsALightningTalk
> > 
> > What can I say in 5 minutes about MakeMaker that you all don't already know?
> 
> 	You could tell us what'a going on with --prefix, that's probably
> good for a minute. :-)

A mostly-working patch just went into CVS.  I'm waiting for a committer bit
to finish it off.  

I guess I could talk about why PREFIX never really worked and never really 
will and the modern alternatives.


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
ROCKS FALL! EVERYONE DIES!
	http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05032002.shtml

From marvin at rectangular.com  Wed Jun  8 16:10:42 2005
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:10:42 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Kinosearch released
In-Reply-To: <57712.130.94.161.230.1118264851.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
References: <CFE19539-F8D6-4F2B-B797-C11D625D7544@rectangular.com>
	<57712.130.94.161.230.1118264851.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <5535EEA9-6D66-4506-877D-5D51B17FDB5B@rectangular.com>


On Jun 8, 2005, at 2:07 PM, Josh Heumann wrote:
> This sounds great, and congratluations for getting it out.

Thanks!

> I know that
> you've introduced it to us already, but do you want to do a  
> lightning talk
> on Kinsearch tonight as a refersher?

With pleasure.  This will be actual lightning, as opposed to my 25- 
minute Van Der Graaf barrage from last time.

I'll manage to squeeze in an intro to Sort::External, too.

Hittin' the road now,

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/



From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Thu Jun  9 01:59:26 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 01:59:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting Summary
Message-ID: <58274.130.94.161.230.1118307566.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

A great meeting was had by all tonight.  As was great beer.  Thanks to our
presenters in the lightning talks:

* MarvinHumphrey, Kinosearch
* EricWilhelm, CAD::Drawing
* EricWilhelm, Getopt::Modern
* Schwern, Class::Whitehole
* Schwern, MakeMaker and Prefixes
* AustinShutz, Inline::C
* TomPhoenix, Tor

SPEAKERS: if you have any materials, links, slides, raccoon carcasses, etc
related to your slides, please email them to me, the list or put them on
the kwiki for posterity.

Thanks again, everyone!

Josh



From schwern at pobox.com  Thu Jun  9 03:48:36 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 03:48:36 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting Summary
In-Reply-To: <58274.130.94.161.230.1118307566.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
References: <58274.130.94.161.230.1118307566.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <20050609104836.GA8851@windhund.schwern.org>

On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 01:59:26AM -0700, Josh Heumann wrote:
> SPEAKERS: if you have any materials, links, slides, raccoon carcasses, etc
> related to your slides, please email them to me, the list or put them on
> the kwiki for posterity.

http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/talks/PREFIX/


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
'All anyone gets in a mirror is themselves,' she said. 'But what you
gets in a good gumbo is everything.'
	-- "Witches Abroad" by Terry Prachett

From krisb at ring.org  Thu Jun  9 11:25:29 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:25:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506082326450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>


> * EricWilhelm, Getopt::Modern

	Eric asked for a bug report but I don't know where to file it:

When you have an ambiguous completion search, please list the flags that
could match.

Thanks.

-Kris


From schwern at pobox.com  Thu Jun  9 13:23:45 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:23:45 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] June Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506082326450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506082326450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org>

On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 11:25:29AM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote:
> > * EricWilhelm, Getopt::Modern
> 
> 	Eric asked for a bug report but I don't know where to file it:
> 
> When you have an ambiguous completion search, please list the flags that
> could match.

Seconded.

Also, please allow --foo=3 to be a synonym for --foo 3.


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
	-- Phillip K. Dick

From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun  9 17:01:10 2005
From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:01:10 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model
In-Reply-To: <20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org>
References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506082326450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
	<20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>

# The following was supposedly scribed by
# Michael G Schwern
# on Thursday 09 June 2005 01:23 pm:

>Also, please allow --foo=3 to be a synonym for --foo 3.

The trouble here is that you don't get shell interpolation for the stuff 
after the equals:

  perl -e 'print join(" ", @ARGV), "\n"' -- --foo=~ --foo ~

Is there a good, secure, reliable, cross-platform way to do shell 
expansion within Perl?   Otherwise it seems like a source of confusion 
(not good since the point of this module is to avoid those.)

--Eric
-- 
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem. 
                                            -- Occam's Razor
---------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------

From monte_b1 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  9 19:54:27 2005
From: monte_b1 at yahoo.com (alberto montelongo)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:54:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] urgent : $25/hr perl tutor
Message-ID: <20050610025427.33841.qmail@web30511.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> Good Day All,
> I am a new perl user, I know some basic stuff but hashes are very
> mysterious to me. I would like to hire an experienced perl programmer
> to help me fill in some blanks that I am desperate to understand( I
> read the books but I am now very fustrated with syntax). if you are interested
> please email me at monte_b1 at yahoo.com or call 503-209-1071 and ask
> for Albert. I would like to find someone as soon as today, Thursday
> June 9, 2005 to start teaching me some perl but i definately need someone this weekend. 
> the project i am working is not very difficult but very nice to do because it has many things that perl emphasizes.
> thank you all for your help,
> Albert


		
---------------------------------
Discover Yahoo!
 Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20050610/5d0323de/attachment.html

From tom.phoenix at gmail.com  Thu Jun  9 20:39:35 2005
From: tom.phoenix at gmail.com (Tom Phoenix)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:39:35 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model
In-Reply-To: <200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506082326450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
	<20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org>
	<200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/9/05, Eric Wilhelm <ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >Also, please allow --foo=3 to be a synonym for --foo 3.
> 
> The trouble here is that you don't get shell interpolation for the
> stuff after the equals:

Maybe it's a feature, not a bug. Document it as one way to pass
parameters without the shell messing with what you type.

What? Why are you looking at me like that?

--Tom Phoenix

From tex at off.org  Thu Jun  9 21:49:48 2005
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:49:48 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model
In-Reply-To: <31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506082326450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
	<20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org>
	<200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net>

On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 08:39:35PM -0700, Tom Phoenix wrote:
> On 6/9/05, Eric Wilhelm <ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >Also, please allow --foo=3 to be a synonym for --foo 3.
> > 
> > The trouble here is that you don't get shell interpolation for the
> > stuff after the equals:
> 
> Maybe it's a feature, not a bug. Document it as one way to pass
> parameters without the shell messing with what you type.
> 
> What? Why are you looking at me like that?
> 

	Autoconf has changed a fair amount, but in relatively recent versions
it did the same thing- if you wanted to use ~ you referred to it as $HOME.
	Come to think of it, I don't see why you need to monkey with it
at all. If the author wants to interpolate ~ all they have to do is
s/^~/$ENV{HOME}/. Document it as a gotcha for the author to be aware of.
	Also by doing that you can pass off responsibility for cases where
the user didn't want shell interpolation, --foo='~' or similar. Otherwise
there's no way of knowing. Actually, that makes it a good excuse for calling
this "the right thing to do", which I would propose that it is.
	I can imagine a case where a script is passed a ~ delimited file,
where the author doesn't want the script to be trying to split on $HOME. So,
let the author choose not to do expansion or not.

	Austin

From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 10 00:39:05 2005
From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:39:05 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model
In-Reply-To: <20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net>
References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net>
Message-ID: <200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>

# The following was supposedly scribed by
# Austin Schutz
# on Thursday 09 June 2005 09:49 pm:

>Come to think of it, I don't see why you need to monkey with it
>at all. If the author wants to interpolate ~ all they have to do is
>s/^~/$ENV{HOME}/. Document it as a gotcha for the author to be aware
> of. 

But it's really a gotcha for the user, which is just one more thing for 
the author to have to document.

> Also by doing that you can pass off responsibility for cases 
> where the user didn't want shell interpolation, --foo='~' or similar.
> Otherwise there's no way of knowing. Actually, that makes it a good
> excuse for calling this "the right thing to do", which I would
> propose that it is.

It's actually starting to sound like this is a good reason to call the 
--whole=thing off.  If the user doesn't want shell expansion, they 
can act accordingly.

Also, I was thinking that the issue actually involved all sorts of shell 
expansion, but it looks like it only really involves the ~.

However, it still introduces a few inconsistencies.

  --this=a{d,c,b}e   ne   --this a{d,c,b}e

> Otherwise there's no way of knowing.

I think the best way of knowing is to not go there.  --this '~' allows 
the user to be very clear about what they mean and I don't see why any 
program or module should second-guess that.  If --this=~ is supposed to 
be treated in a special way (which is actually a work-around to the way 
the shell treats words), then I don't think it's going to be worth the 
extra code.

If I don't try to make everyone happy, the module is unused.  If I do 
it's useless right?

--Eric
-- 
"If you only know how to use a hammer, every problem begins to look like 
a nail." 
                                       -- Richard B. Johnson
---------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------


From tex at off.org  Fri Jun 10 01:14:32 2005
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:14:32 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model
In-Reply-To: <200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net>
	<200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20050610081432.GZ1934@gblx.net>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 12:39:05AM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> # The following was supposedly scribed by
> # Austin Schutz
> # on Thursday 09 June 2005 09:49 pm:
> 
> >Come to think of it, I don't see why you need to monkey with it
> >at all. If the author wants to interpolate ~ all they have to do is
> >s/^~/$ENV{HOME}/. Document it as a gotcha for the author to be aware
> > of. 
> 
> But it's really a gotcha for the user, which is just one more thing for 
> the author to have to document.

	I'm making the assumption that the author will have a good idea
of what will be intuitive for the users and code accordingly.

> 
> > Also by doing that you can pass off responsibility for cases 
> > where the user didn't want shell interpolation, --foo='~' or similar.
> > Otherwise there's no way of knowing. Actually, that makes it a good
> > excuse for calling this "the right thing to do", which I would
> > propose that it is.
> 
> It's actually starting to sound like this is a good reason to call the 
> --whole=thing off.  If the user doesn't want shell expansion, they 
> can act accordingly.
> 

	..on the other hand, there's nothing forcing anyone to use the
--foo=bar syntax in the first place. You could always make it an option
the author could enable. If the author has something generally benign in mind,
it could be very useful, imo.

> Also, I was thinking that the issue actually involved all sorts of shell 
> expansion, but it looks like it only really involves the ~.
> 

	Yeah, I suspect that's correct.

> However, it still introduces a few inconsistencies.
> 
>   --this=a{d,c,b}e   ne   --this a{d,c,b}e

	I'm already confused by this. I would also be wary of using {}s
at all w/out quoting, you never know what a given shell might do with them.

> 
> > Otherwise there's no way of knowing.
> 
> I think the best way of knowing is to not go there.  --this '~' allows 
> the user to be very clear about what they mean and I don't see why any 
> program or module should second-guess that.  If --this=~ is supposed to 
> be treated in a special way (which is actually a work-around to the way 
> the shell treats words), then I don't think it's going to be worth the 
> extra code.
> 
> If I don't try to make everyone happy, the module is unused.  If I do 
> it's useless right?
> 

	Well, I think there's a sort of third option - give everyone the
option to be happy, but set defaults that make you happy. :-)
	I can think of several instances where an author didn't think a
particular feature was very interesting that I found invaluable.

	That said, it is _your_ module. If you don't feel comfortable
doing a particular thing, don't be bullied into it. At least not without
a good deal of consideration. In the end you will be the one maintaining
the cruft.

	Austin

From schwern at pobox.com  Fri Jun 10 06:46:05 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:46:05 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model
In-Reply-To: <200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506082326450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
	<20050609202345.GB11192@windhund.schwern.org>
	<200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20050610134605.GB12270@windhund.schwern.org>

On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 05:01:10PM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> The trouble here is that you don't get shell interpolation for the stuff 
> after the equals:
> 
>   perl -e 'print join(" ", @ARGV), "\n"' -- --foo=~ --foo ~
> 
> Is there a good, secure, reliable, cross-platform way to do shell 
> expansion within Perl?   Otherwise it seems like a source of confusion 
> (not good since the point of this module is to avoid those.)

I'd let the program worry about that.  Most shell expansion works.

$ perl -wle 'print join " ", @ARGV' -- --foo={1,2}
--foo=1 --foo=2

Its only ~ expansion that doesn't and that's easy.

	$path =~ s/^~/$ENV{HOME}/ if defined $ENV{HOME};


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
You are wicked and wrong to have broken inside and peeked at the
implementation and then relied upon it.
	-- tchrist in <31832.969261130 at chthon>

From schwern at pobox.com  Fri Jun 10 07:01:09 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:01:09 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model
In-Reply-To: <200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net>
	<200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20050610140109.GC12270@windhund.schwern.org>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 12:39:05AM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> I think the best way of knowing is to not go there.  --this '~' allows 
> the user to be very clear about what they mean and I don't see why any 
> program or module should second-guess that.  If --this=~ is supposed to 
> be treated in a special way (which is actually a work-around to the way 
> the shell treats words), then I don't think it's going to be worth the 
> extra code.

I'd say the behavior of --this ~ vs --this=~ isn't your problem, its a
Unix shell issue.  And your module will work the same as every other Unix
program in this regard.  So just punt.

Here's another way of looking at it.

Let's consider what happens if --foo=~ is disallowed from the user's 
perspective.  Presumably there's going to be some sort of error message.

	$ program --foo=42
	'--foo=bar' form not allowed.  Please use '--foo bar' instead.

At which point the user will say "What the hell?!?" and kick, scream and
curse at the draconian program author.  The program obviously went through
the trouble to parse --foo=42 properly but then refuses to DWIM.

This reminds me of this Python annoyance.

$ python
Python 2.3.5 (#1, Apr  4 2005, 18:50:09) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1671)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> exit
'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.'
>>> quit
'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.'
>>> 

It knows perfectly well what I meant yet refuses to DWIM.

Since --foo=~ is the only gotcha here and 99% of the time the right thing
to do is to translate it with s/^~/$ENV{HOME}/ if $ENV{HOME} then why not
do that by default and provide a way for the program author to turn it off
in the rare cases where its not needed?


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
Just call me 'Moron Sugar'.
	http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05182002.shtml

From krisb at ring.org  Fri Jun 10 09:28:19 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:28:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model
In-Reply-To: <200506091701.10574.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506100927470.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> Is there a good, secure, reliable, cross-platform way to do shell
> expansion within Perl?

http://www.gregorpurdy.com/gregor/psh/

=)

-Kris


From tex at off.org  Fri Jun 10 10:53:52 2005
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:53:52 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model
In-Reply-To: <20050610140109.GC12270@windhund.schwern.org>
References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net>
	<200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<20050610140109.GC12270@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <20050610175352.GB1934@gblx.net>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 07:01:09AM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> This reminds me of this Python annoyance.
> 
> $ python
> Python 2.3.5 (#1, Apr  4 2005, 18:50:09) 
> [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1671)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> exit
> 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.'
> >>> quit
> 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.'
> >>> 
> 
> It knows perfectly well what I meant yet refuses to DWIM.
> 

tex at peace:~> python
[GCC 3.3 20030226 (prerelease) (SuSE Linux)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> exit
'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.'
>>> quit
'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.'
>>> import sys
>>> sys.exit()
tex at peace:~>

(flips the bird at the computer)

From jeff at vpservices.com  Fri Jun 10 11:07:50 2005
From: jeff at vpservices.com (Jeff Zucker)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:07:50 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Juggling Lessons
Message-ID: <42A9D6F6.90509@vpservices.com>

Since I had unexpected out of town guests on Wednesday, y'all will have 
to settle for a virtual lesson for now.  I am somewhat surprised to 
learn that my 10year-old javascript still works (at least in firefox), 
help yourself at:

http://www.vpservices.com/jeff/games/juggle/

:-)

-- 
Jeff

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Jun 10 11:12:42 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:12:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] MJD's site
Message-ID: <38896.130.94.161.230.1118427162.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

Can anyone reach Mark-Jason Dominus' site, http://plover.com?

J



From david at kineticode.com  Fri Jun 10 11:14:37 2005
From: david at kineticode.com (David Wheeler)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:14:37 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] MJD's site
In-Reply-To: <38896.130.94.161.230.1118427162.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
References: <38896.130.94.161.230.1118427162.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <BBF9D974-4B4A-473A-8034-42242D17185B@kineticode.com>

On Jun 10, 2005, at 11:12 , Josh Heumann wrote:

> Can anyone reach Mark-Jason Dominus' site, http://plover.com?

Not I.

D

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Jun 10 11:15:03 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:15:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern usage model
In-Reply-To: <20050610175352.GB1934@gblx.net>
References: <57432.130.94.161.230.1118260071.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<31086b24050609203958e81ddf@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050610044948.GY1934@gblx.net>
	<200506100039.05138.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<20050610140109.GC12270@windhund.schwern.org>
	<20050610175352.GB1934@gblx.net>
Message-ID: <38905.130.94.161.230.1118427303.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

<quote who="Austin Schutz">
> tex at peace:~> python
> [GCC 3.3 20030226 (prerelease) (SuSE Linux)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> exit
> 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.'
>>>> quit
> 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.'
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.exit()
> tex at peace:~>
>
> (flips the bird at the computer)

I would definitely watch a tv show that was nothing but Austin getting
pissed at various programs and language syntaxes (where 'watch' =
'bittorrent').

J



From dpool at hevanet.com  Fri Jun 10 11:16:22 2005
From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:16:22 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Juggling Lessons
In-Reply-To: <42A9D6F6.90509@vpservices.com>
References: <42A9D6F6.90509@vpservices.com>
Message-ID: <1118427383.9101.78.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 11:07 -0700, Jeff Zucker wrote:
> Since I had unexpected out of town guests on Wednesday, y'all will have 
> to settle for a virtual lesson for now.  I am somewhat surprised to 
> learn that my 10year-old javascript still works (at least in firefox), 
> help yourself at:
> 
> http://www.vpservices.com/jeff/games/juggle/

Nice. What's the difference between "exit" and "stop"?

d


From ptkwt at aracnet.com  Fri Jun 10 11:25:44 2005
From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101124330.27551-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>


Anyone heard anything about volunteering at OSCON this year?

Phil


From jeff at vpservices.com  Fri Jun 10 11:27:48 2005
From: jeff at vpservices.com (Jeff Zucker)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:27:48 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Juggling Lessons
In-Reply-To: <1118427383.9101.78.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <42A9D6F6.90509@vpservices.com>
	<1118427383.9101.78.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <42A9DBA4.1070409@vpservices.com>

David Pool wrote:

>On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 11:07 -0700, Jeff Zucker wrote:
>  
>
>>Since I had unexpected out of town guests on Wednesday, y'all will have 
>>to settle for a virtual lesson for now.  I am somewhat surprised to 
>>learn that my 10year-old javascript still works (at least in firefox), 
>>help yourself at:
>>
>>http://www.vpservices.com/jeff/games/juggle/
>>    
>>
>
>Nice. What's the difference between "exit" and "stop"?
>
You'd have to use Time::Travel and ask my former self to get the 
answer.  I think it used to redirect to a menu page.

-- 
Jeff

From krisb at ring.org  Fri Jun 10 11:28:21 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:28:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] MJD's site
In-Reply-To: <BBF9D974-4B4A-473A-8034-42242D17185B@kineticode.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101128130.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>


me too

=)

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, David Wheeler wrote:

> On Jun 10, 2005, at 11:12 , Josh Heumann wrote:
>
> > Can anyone reach Mark-Jason Dominus' site, http://plover.com?
>
> Not I.
>
> D
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
>
> !DSPAM:42a9d8a4305401930317464!
>
>


From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Jun 10 11:36:36 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:36:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101124330.27551-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101124330.27551-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
Message-ID: <39151.130.94.161.230.1118428596.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

<quote who="Phil Tomson">
> Anyone heard anything about volunteering at OSCON this year?

I have heard that O'Reilly has opted to hire a company to do setup and
eliminated all volunteer opportunities this year.  I haven't confirmed
this directly with the company yet, but there is no mention of
volunteering on the website.

Josh



From ptkwt at aracnet.com  Fri Jun 10 11:47:05 2005
From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:47:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <39151.130.94.161.230.1118428596.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101139250.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>



On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Josh Heumann wrote:

> <quote who="Phil Tomson">
> > Anyone heard anything about volunteering at OSCON this year?
> 
> I have heard that O'Reilly has opted to hire a company to do setup and
> eliminated all volunteer opportunities this year.  I haven't confirmed
> this directly with the company yet, but there is no mention of
> volunteering on the website.
> 
> Josh
> 

_That's_ why I hadn't heard anything about volunteering this year. That's 
really bad news.  I was hoping to volunteer like I did last year so 
I could get in.  

Other than volunteering or presenting a talk (my proposal was 
rejected this year) - is there any other way to get in free or cheap ;-)

...guess I should look into student discounts (not sure if they have 
those, though).

Phil


From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 10 11:58:42 2005
From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:58:42 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Juggling Lessons
In-Reply-To: <1118427383.9101.78.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <42A9D6F6.90509@vpservices.com>
	<1118427383.9101.78.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200506101158.42987.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>

# The following was supposedly scribed by
# David Pool
# on Friday 10 June 2005 11:16 am:

>What's the difference between "exit" and "stop"?

>>> exit
'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.'
>>> stop
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'stop' is not defined

--Eric
-- 
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." 
                                          -- Albert Einstein
---------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------

From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 10 12:10:07 2005
From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:10:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <39151.130.94.161.230.1118428596.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <20050610191007.10487.qmail@web60824.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Josh Heumann <perl-pm at joshheumann.com> wrote:
> <quote who="Phil Tomson">
> > Anyone heard anything about volunteering at OSCON this year?
> 
> I have heard that O'Reilly has opted to hire a company to do setup
> and
> eliminated all volunteer opportunities this year.  I haven't
> confirmed
> this directly with the company yet, but there is no mention of
> volunteering on the website.

If this is true, I wish locals had heard about it sooner.  I imagine
that there are a few people who may have wanted to sign up for early
registration discounts if they couldn't get in free.  Those end in 10
days.  If my talk hadn't been accepted, I'd be waiting for the
volunteer announcements.  I've already seen people asking about them on
the PLUG list.

Cheers,
Ovid

-- 
If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send
follow up questions to the list.

Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

From tom.phoenix at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 12:15:40 2005
From: tom.phoenix at gmail.com (Tom Phoenix)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:15:40 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101139250.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
References: <39151.130.94.161.230.1118428596.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101139250.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
Message-ID: <31086b2405061012151c4ff301@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/10/05, Phil Tomson <ptkwt at aracnet.com> wrote:

> Other than volunteering or presenting a talk (my proposal was
> rejected this year) - is there any other way to get in free or cheap ;-)

Can we get a PDX-pm booth this year? Maybe we only need to ask the
right person. We would have to set it up with a table and a banner and
maybe a chair or two, but we could probably get several PDX-pm people
some kind of badges, if you're willing to sell T-shirts for a few
hours.

--Tom

From ptkwt at aracnet.com  Fri Jun 10 12:28:48 2005
From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:28:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <31086b2405061012151c4ff301@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101223130.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>



On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Tom Phoenix wrote:

> On 6/10/05, Phil Tomson <ptkwt at aracnet.com> wrote:
> 
> > Other than volunteering or presenting a talk (my proposal was
> > rejected this year) - is there any other way to get in free or cheap ;-)
> 
> Can we get a PDX-pm booth this year? Maybe we only need to ask the
> right person. We would have to set it up with a table and a banner and
> maybe a chair or two, but we could probably get several PDX-pm people
> some kind of badges, if you're willing to sell T-shirts for a few
> hours.
> 

How about a combined PDX-pm/PDX.rb booth?  It would be a great example of 
the harmony&peace we have here in Portland and it would serve as an 
example to those coming from less harmonious places ;-)

...just don't let those sneaky Python people join the booth.

(Kidding... just kidding :)

Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel.


Phil 


From allison at perl.org  Fri Jun 10 12:45:52 2005
From: allison at perl.org (Allison Randal)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:45:52 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101223130.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101223130.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
Message-ID: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org>

On Jun 10, 2005, at 12:28, Phil Tomson wrote:
>
> How about a combined PDX-pm/PDX.rb booth?  It would be a great example 
> of
> the harmony&peace we have here in Portland and it would serve as an
> example to those coming from less harmonious places ;-)
>
> ...just don't let those sneaky Python people join the booth.
>
> (Kidding... just kidding :)
>
> Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel.

That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" 
booth.

Allison


From ckuskie at dalsemi.com  Fri Jun 10 12:47:15 2005
From: ckuskie at dalsemi.com (Colin Kuskie)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:47:15 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101223130.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
	<03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org>
Message-ID: <20050610194715.GB19931@dalsemi.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 12:45:52PM -0700, Allison Randal wrote:
> 
> That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" 
> booth.
> 

Yeah, and we can abbreviate it to OSDL!

Wait a minute...

Colin

From ptkwt at aracnet.com  Fri Jun 10 12:52:37 2005
From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:52:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101247010.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>



On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Allison Randal wrote:

> On Jun 10, 2005, at 12:28, Phil Tomson wrote:
> >
> > How about a combined PDX-pm/PDX.rb booth?  It would be a great example 
> > of
> > the harmony&peace we have here in Portland and it would serve as an
> > example to those coming from less harmonious places ;-)
> >
> > ...just don't let those sneaky Python people join the booth.
> >
> > (Kidding... just kidding :)
> >
> > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel.
> 
> That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" 
> booth.
> 
> Allison
> 


Allison, 

Rumor has it you might have some contacts at O'Reilly ;-)  Who would we 
need to contact to get a booth like this at OSCON?

The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source 
Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL)

Phil


From jeff at vpservices.com  Fri Jun 10 12:58:43 2005
From: jeff at vpservices.com (Jeff Zucker)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:58:43 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101247010.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101247010.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
Message-ID: <42A9F0F3.6080004@vpservices.com>

Phil Tomson wrote:

>The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source 
>Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL)
>
Then why not Agile Opensource Languages, I don't believe there's any 
kind of acronym conflict with the letters "AOL", is there?

-- 
Jeff

From krisb at ring.org  Fri Jun 10 13:35:27 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:35:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101335030.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>


	How does one become a boothmonkey?  Ook.

-Kris

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Allison Randal wrote:

> On Jun 10, 2005, at 12:28, Phil Tomson wrote:
> >
> > How about a combined PDX-pm/PDX.rb booth?  It would be a great example
> > of
> > the harmony&peace we have here in Portland and it would serve as an
> > example to those coming from less harmonious places ;-)
> >
> > ...just don't let those sneaky Python people join the booth.
> >
> > (Kidding... just kidding :)
> >
> > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel.
>
> That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages"
> booth.
>
> Allison
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
>
> !DSPAM:42a9eddc136221772784524!
>
>


From krisb at ring.org  Fri Jun 10 13:37:05 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101247010.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101336060.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>


On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Phil Tomson wrote:

> The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source
> Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL)

	I vote for Languages, Open Source, Dynamic (LOSD).

-Kris


From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 10 13:45:43 2005
From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:45:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101223130.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
Message-ID: <20050610204543.89227.qmail@web60813.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Phil Tomson <ptkwt at aracnet.com> wrote:
> Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel.

Why stop there?  If memory serves, both CLOS and APL are dynamically
typed:  CLOS, Ruby, APL, Perl, Python.  Surely we can make and
interesting acronym out of that.

Cheers,
Ovid

-- 
If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send
follow up questions to the list.

Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

From dpool at hevanet.com  Fri Jun 10 13:45:45 2005
From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:45:45 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101247010.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101247010.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
Message-ID: <1118436345.9668.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 12:52 -0700, Phil Tomson wrote:
> 
> 
> Allison, 
> 
> Rumor has it you might have some contacts at O'Reilly ;-)  Who would we 
> need to contact to get a booth like this at OSCON?
> 
> The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source 
> Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL)


I believe the person to contact about booths is Andrew Calvo, but let's
not flood him with requests - who wants to make the official contact...
Josh?

The address is:
andrewc at oreilly.com

d


From chromatic at wgz.org  Fri Jun 10 13:43:08 2005
From: chromatic at wgz.org (chromatic)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:43:08 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101223130.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
	<03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org>
Message-ID: <1118436188.30451.54.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 12:45 -0700, Allison Randal wrote:

> That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" 
> booth.

Are there any interesting dynamic languages worth talking about without
widely-used open source implementations?

(From my point of view, that's a "no".)

Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization
behind a booth receive?

-- c


From dpool at hevanet.com  Fri Jun 10 13:53:07 2005
From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:53:07 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <1118436188.30451.54.camel@localhost>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101223130.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
	<03518e52bfa28c2dfc892e48488d7314@perl.org>
	<1118436188.30451.54.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <1118436787.9668.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 13:43 -0700, chromatic wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 12:45 -0700, Allison Randal wrote:
> 
> > That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" 
> > booth.
> 
> Are there any interesting dynamic languages worth talking about without
> widely-used open source implementations?
> 
> (From my point of view, that's a "no".)
> 
> Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization
> behind a booth receive?

Only one.

d


From tex at off.org  Fri Jun 10 14:02:37 2005
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:02:37 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <20050610204543.89227.qmail@web60813.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101223130.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
	<20050610204543.89227.qmail@web60813.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050610210237.GC1934@gblx.net>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:45:43PM -0700, Ovid wrote:
> --- Phil Tomson <ptkwt at aracnet.com> wrote:
> > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel.
> 
> Why stop there?  If memory serves, both CLOS and APL are dynamically
> typed:  CLOS, Ruby, APL, Perl, Python.  Surely we can make and
> interesting acronym out of that.
> 

	Sure, add lisp in there and we can call it CRAPPL. Who wouldn't want
that?

	Austin

From gabrielle.roth at xo.com  Fri Jun 10 14:04:17 2005
From: gabrielle.roth at xo.com (Roth, Gabrielle)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:04:17 -0600
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
Message-ID: <E2383CA82A645A45B72D523F5A29311A01297AC9@UTSANDMAIL02.mail.inthosts.net>

Chromatic wrote:
> Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization
> behind a booth receive?

If it helps, I would be happy to man the booth for a while if we need
body count.  I don't need a pass.

Ovid wrote:
> Why stop there?  If memory serves, both CLOS and APL are dynamically
> typed:  CLOS, Ruby, APL, Perl, Python.  Surely we can make and
> interesting acronym out of that.

Now you're talkin'. ;)

Speaking of t-shirts...what's the word?

- gabrielle -
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Fri Jun 10 14:04:19 2005
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 10 Jun 2005 14:04:19 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <20050610210237.GC1934@gblx.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101223130.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
	<20050610204543.89227.qmail@web60813.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20050610210237.GC1934@gblx.net>
Message-ID: <864qc5exf0.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Austin" == Austin Schutz <tex at off.org> writes:

>> Why stop there?  If memory serves, both CLOS and APL are dynamically
>> typed:  CLOS, Ruby, APL, Perl, Python.  Surely we can make and
>> interesting acronym out of that.
>> 

Austin> 	Sure, add lisp in there and we can call it CRAPPL. Who wouldn't want
Austin> that?

Need to add Haskell too, even if that breaks the "Dynamically Typed"
restriction.  Oh, and Prolog.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From ptkwt at aracnet.com  Fri Jun 10 14:32:03 2005
From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <1118436188.30451.54.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101431210.32639-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>



On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, chromatic wrote:

> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 12:45 -0700, Allison Randal wrote:
> 
> > That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages" 
> > booth.
> 
> Are there any interesting dynamic languages worth talking about without
> widely-used open source implementations?
> 
> (From my point of view, that's a "no".)
> 
> Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization
> behind a booth receive?
> 

Ah, good point.  So maybe it would be better to have seperate booths.  I 
just figured that they had a limit no the number of booths they could 
have.

Phil


From schwern at pobox.com  Fri Jun 10 15:21:37 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:21:37 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101336060.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101247010.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101336060.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:37:05PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote:
> > The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source
> > Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL)
> 
> 	I vote for Languages, Open Source, Dynamic (LOSD).

Lightweight Open Languages

Dynamic and Open Source


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
ROCKS FALL! EVERYONE DIES!
	http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05032002.shtml

From allison at perl.org  Fri Jun 10 15:28:10 2005
From: allison at perl.org (Allison Randal)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:28:10 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101431210.32639-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101431210.32639-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
Message-ID: <2ff1ee0e747680e64259bfb13fa0642f@perl.org>

On Jun 10, 2005, at 14:32, Phil Tomson wrote:
>
> Ah, good point.  So maybe it would be better to have seperate booths.  
> I
> just figured that they had a limit no the number of booths they could
> have.

Not usually. And we're in the Oregon convention center this year, 
which'll mean plenty of space in the exhibit hall.

Andrew Calvo is the right person to contact about booth space. I'll 
forward Phil and Josh the email I just got from him about it.

> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Josh Heumann wrote:
>>
>> I have heard that O'Reilly has opted to hire a company to do setup and
>> eliminated all volunteer opportunities this year.

I just confirmed this with Nat. No volunteers this year.


On Jun 10, 2005, at 11:47, Phil Tomson wrote:
> ...guess I should look into student discounts (not sure if they have
> those, though).

Full-time students get 65% off: 
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2005/create/ord_os05

Allison


From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Fri Jun 10 15:35:40 2005
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 10 Jun 2005 15:35:40 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101247010.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101336060.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
	<20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <86k6l1demb.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael G Schwern <schwern at pobox.com> writes:

>> I vote for Languages, Open Source, Dynamic (LOSD).

Michael> Lightweight Open Languages

Michael> Dynamic and Open Source

Little Source Distributions

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From jkeroes at eli.net  Fri Jun 10 15:36:01 2005
From: jkeroes at eli.net (Joshua Keroes)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:36:01 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101247010.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101336060.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
	<20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <DDDD652F-CC42-43BB-8809-E0C5C463468F@eli.net>


On Jun 10, 2005, at 3:21 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:37:05PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote:
>
>>> The OSDL in Beaverton might not like it if we called it "Open Source
>>> Dynamic Langauges" maybe "Dynamic Open Source Langauages" (DOSL)
>>>
>>
>>     I vote for Languages, Open Source, Dynamic (LOSD).
>>
>
> Lightweight Open Languages
>
> Dynamic and Open Source

Can I play, too?

Object Marketing Genius
Widely Targeted Formulations
Believable Buzzword Quagmire

From tex at off.org  Fri Jun 10 15:39:03 2005
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:39:03 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <DDDD652F-CC42-43BB-8809-E0C5C463468F@eli.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101247010.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101336060.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
	<20050610222137.GB1810@windhund.schwern.org>
	<DDDD652F-CC42-43BB-8809-E0C5C463468F@eli.net>
Message-ID: <20050610223903.GD1934@gblx.net>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 03:36:01PM -0700, Joshua Keroes wrote:
> Can I play, too?
> 
> Object Marketing Genius
> Widely Targeted Formulations
> Believable Buzzword Quagmire

	Sure.. how about Portland Object Oriented Dynamic Languages.
Open source goes w/out saying, why else would you be at OSCON. *shrug*

	Austin

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Jun 10 16:20:41 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:20:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <E2383CA82A645A45B72D523F5A29311A01297AC9@UTSANDMAIL02.mail.inthosts.net>
References: <E2383CA82A645A45B72D523F5A29311A01297AC9@UTSANDMAIL02.mail.inthosts.net>
Message-ID: <41399.130.94.161.230.1118445641.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

<quote who="Roth, Gabrielle">
> Speaking of t-shirts...what's the word?

I'm in the process of connecting our designer with the printer so they can
chat about formats and stuff I don't understand.

<quote who="David Pool">

> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 13:43 -0700, chromatic wrote:
>> Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization
>> behind a booth receive?
>
> Only one.

So it would appear that we're going with one group per booth to maximize
free passes.  I'll check with Andrew Calvo and see if that's really the
limit.  They can't really expect one person to man the booth the whole
time.

Josh



From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Fri Jun 10 17:07:00 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:07:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] MDJ's site down
Message-ID: <41807.130.94.161.230.1118448420.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

Apparently, his email server is also down.  Short of a phone call, anyone
know another way to get ahold of him and let him know his server's down?

Josh

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON at codepirates.org>
Date: Fri, June 10, 2005 4:41 pm
To: <josh at joshheumann.com>

    **********************************************
    **      THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY      **
    **  YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE  **
    **********************************************

The original message was received at Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:43:38 -0700
from localhost [127.0.0.1]

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
<mjd-hop at plover.com>... Deferred: Connection timed out with plover.com.
Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours
Will keep trying until message is 5 days old


-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: untitled-3.1
Url: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20050611/b4a1854d/untitled-3.pl

From allyn at well.com  Fri Jun 10 17:17:33 2005
From: allyn at well.com (Mark Allyn)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:17:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101139250.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101139250.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0506101715500.14279@well.com>


Don't tell anyone I said this . . . . .

When I volunteered there (and at every other
conference/convention/symposium/your-choice-of-nown), the one thing
that I have noticed that is common is the stupid simplicity of the
badges.

All it takes is a decent app such as gime or photoshop and a decent
printer . . . ..

Need I say any more?

Luv

Cleara


From randall at sonofhans.net  Fri Jun 10 17:21:42 2005
From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:21:42 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0506101715500.14279@well.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101139250.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0506101715500.14279@well.com>
Message-ID: <D74CF652-32B3-49AC-81F1-B0998964D7E5@sonofhans.net>

On Jun 10, 2005, at 5:17 PM, Mark Allyn wrote:

> All it takes is a decent app such as gime or photoshop and a decent
> printer . . . ..

... and a well-demagnetized moral compass.  that's pathetic.

r


From allyn at well.com  Fri Jun 10 17:24:41 2005
From: allyn at well.com (Mark Allyn)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:24:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <20050610210237.GC1934@gblx.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506101223130.27883-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>
	<20050610204543.89227.qmail@web60813.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20050610210237.GC1934@gblx.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0506101724090.14279@well.com>


Add shell, you get

SCRAPPL

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Austin Schutz wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:45:43PM -0700, Ovid wrote:
> > --- Phil Tomson <ptkwt at aracnet.com> wrote:
> > > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel.
> >
> > Why stop there?  If memory serves, both CLOS and APL are dynamically
> > typed:  CLOS, Ruby, APL, Perl, Python.  Surely we can make and
> > interesting acronym out of that.
> >
>
> 	Sure, add lisp in there and we can call it CRAPPL. Who wouldn't want
> that?
>
> 	Austin
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list
>
>

From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 10 17:48:34 2005
From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:48:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0506101715500.14279@well.com>
Message-ID: <20050611004834.96967.qmail@web60812.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Mark Allyn <allyn at well.com> wrote:
> All it takes is a decent app such as gime or photoshop and a decent
> printer . . . ..
> 
> Need I say any more?

I hope you don't.

May I point out that more than one person who works for O'Reilly is on
this list?  Perl's not the only thing you can shoot yourself in the
foot with.

Please, don't encourage unethical behavior.

Cheers,
Ovid

-- 
If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send
follow up questions to the list.

Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

From dpool at hevanet.com  Fri Jun 10 18:07:35 2005
From: dpool at hevanet.com (David Pool)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:07:35 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <41399.130.94.161.230.1118445641.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
References: <E2383CA82A645A45B72D523F5A29311A01297AC9@UTSANDMAIL02.mail.inthosts.net>
	<41399.130.94.161.230.1118445641.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <1118452055.5055.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 16:20 -0700, Josh Heumann wrote:
> <quote who="Roth, Gabrielle">
> > Speaking of t-shirts...what's the word?
> 
> I'm in the process of connecting our designer with the printer so they can
> chat about formats and stuff I don't understand.
> 
> <quote who="David Pool">
> 
> > On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 13:43 -0700, chromatic wrote:
> >> Realistically though, how many session passes would the organization
> >> behind a booth receive?
> >
> > Only one.
> 
> So it would appear that we're going with one group per booth to maximize
> free passes.  I'll check with Andrew Calvo and see if that's really the
> limit.  They can't really expect one person to man the booth the whole
> time.

By session passes I assumed that c was referring to passes into the
keynote sessions etc. I'm sure O'Reilly would allow several people into
the exhibit hall. In fact they've told me that you can get into there
for free:

"You're 
most welcome to sign up for an exhibit hall pass--that's a free pass 
that gives you access to the Products & Services sessions, evening 
events, and birds of a feather sessions as well as the exhibit hall."

Regarding single or multiple booths, I don't think the decision should
be based on weaseling into the sessions. A big booth looks active while
spreading out looks boring so I'd recommend staffing a single booth
together.

d


From ptkwt at aracnet.com  Fri Jun 10 22:43:16 2005
From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:43:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0506101715500.14279@well.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506102242180.9413-100000@onyx.spiritone.com>



On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Mark Allyn wrote:

> 
> Don't tell anyone I said this . . . . .
> 
> When I volunteered there (and at every other
> conference/convention/symposium/your-choice-of-nown), the one thing
> that I have noticed that is common is the stupid simplicity of the
> badges.
> 
> All it takes is a decent app such as gime or photoshop and a decent
> printer . . . ..
> 
> Need I say any more?
> 

Well, that's not what I meant by finding ways to get in free.  I was 
referring to some legitimate way.

Phil


From dhmedley at aol.com  Sat Jun 11 08:31:03 2005
From: dhmedley at aol.com (dhmedley@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 11:31:03 -0400
Subject: [Pdx-pm] (no subject)
Message-ID: <8C73CB1B663EDFA-C14-B29D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>




> How does one become a boothmonkey?  Ook.

>-Kris

I have a bit of experience with that ( dragging knuckles and what not ) 
 so sign me up, too ...
and will be paying my own way to attend.

>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Allison Randal wrote:

> >On Jun 10, 2005, at 12:28, Phil Tomson wrote:
> >
> > How about a combined PDX-pm/PDX.rb booth?  It would be a great 
example of
> > the harmony&peace we have here in Portland and it would serve as an
> > example to those coming from less harmonious places ;-)
> >
> > ...just don't let those sneaky Python people join the booth.
> >
> > (Kidding... just kidding :)
> >
> > Actually, a combined Perl/Ruby/Python booth would be quite novel.
> >That's an awesome idea. Call it the "Open Source Dynamic Languages"
> >booth.
>
> >Allison
>

Dennis H. Medley
DHMedley at aol.com

From allison at perl.org  Sat Jun 11 10:33:52 2005
From: allison at perl.org (Allison Randal)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:33:52 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] OSCON Volunteer opportunities?
In-Reply-To: <1118452055.5055.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <E2383CA82A645A45B72D523F5A29311A01297AC9@UTSANDMAIL02.mail.inthosts.net>
	<41399.130.94.161.230.1118445641.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<1118452055.5055.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <6544bef47c0e168b4ad89e7004b4935e@perl.org>

On Jun 10, 2005, at 18:07, David Pool wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 16:20 -0700, Josh Heumann wrote:
>> So it would appear that we're going with one group per booth to 
>> maximize
>> free passes.  I'll check with Andrew Calvo and see if that's really 
>> the
>> limit.  They can't really expect one person to man the booth the whole
>> time.
>
> By session passes I assumed that c was referring to passes into the
> keynote sessions etc. I'm sure O'Reilly would allow several people into
> the exhibit hall. In fact they've told me that you can get into there
> for free:
>
> "You're
> most welcome to sign up for an exhibit hall pass--that's a free pass
> that gives you access to the Products & Services sessions, evening
> events, and birds of a feather sessions as well as the exhibit hall."

Yup. If you select "Exhibit Hall ONLY" in Step 1 of the registration 
form, it's free. You get to see a good bit of the conference that way. 
It's especially good if you can't get time off work, but still want to 
join in the fun.

Allison


From marvin at rectangular.com  Mon Jun 13 10:41:12 2005
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:41:12 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Big tied arrays
Message-ID: <FC86EDFE-688C-405F-A609-409394C2A421@rectangular.com>

Greets,

I've got a tied array class that can grow to a very large size (using  
multiple files) mostly written.  Am I reinventing the wheel?  I  
haven't tracked anything like it down on CPAN so far.  In a nutshell,  
the scheme uses index files which store lookup data (filenum, offset,  
length) against the data files, allowing storage of arbitrary  
content.  Deletions don't disappear from the data files unless you  
optimize the whole thing.

The DB_RECNO option from DB_File uses a single-byte record separator,  
so that's out.  Anything else?

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/


From schwern at pobox.com  Mon Jun 13 12:47:24 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:47:24 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Big tied arrays
In-Reply-To: <FC86EDFE-688C-405F-A609-409394C2A421@rectangular.com>
References: <FC86EDFE-688C-405F-A609-409394C2A421@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <20050613194724.GD16297@windhund.schwern.org>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:41:12AM -0700, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> I've got a tied array class that can grow to a very large size (using  
> multiple files) mostly written.  Am I reinventing the wheel?  I  
> haven't tracked anything like it down on CPAN so far.  In a nutshell,  
> the scheme uses index files which store lookup data (filenum, offset,  
> length) against the data files, allowing storage of arbitrary  
> content.  Deletions don't disappear from the data files unless you  
> optimize the whole thing.
> 
> The DB_RECNO option from DB_File uses a single-byte record separator,  
> so that's out.  Anything else?

Why do the details of the record separator, a purely internal detail, 
matter?


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
You are wicked and wrong to have broken inside and peeked at the
implementation and then relied upon it.
	-- tchrist in <31832.969261130 at chthon>

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Mon Jun 13 13:12:52 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:12:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] [Fwd: O'Reilly OSCON "Locals Only" UG Discount--Early
	Registration Ending]
Message-ID: <56944.67.131.106.4.1118693572.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

Reminder from O'Reilly about the local discount.  It's no volunteering
opportunity, but it's better than nothing.

J

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: O'Reilly OSCON "Locals Only" UG Discount--Early Registration Ending
From: Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com>
Date: Mon, June 13, 2005 12:34 pm

Hi UG Leader,

The O'Reilly Open Source Convention (OSCON) is returning to Portland,
Oregon. Once again we're offering a special discount to the locals--
User Group members in Oregon and Washington.

With this "locals only" discount, your members get 20% off of OSCON
registration. Anyone who registers by June 20 gets a double
discount--20% off of the early registration price. After the June 20,
your members receive 20% off the regular conference pricing.

Use code os05porug when you register online:
To register, go to:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2005/create/ord_os05



O'Reilly Open Source Convention
Oregon Convention Center
777 N. E. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd
Portland,  Oregon  97212
August 1- 5, 2005
http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/


We also need help getting the OSCON wiki up to speed. Now is your chance
to share your projects, local hangouts & advice with other OSCON
attendees.
http://wiki.oreillynet.com/oscon/index.cgi

Please let your members know!

Marsee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Marsee Henon
O'Reilly
1005 Gravenstein Highway North  Sebastopol,   CA   95472
707-827-7103     800-998-9938     Fax 707-829-0104
marsee at oreilly.com
http://ug.oreilly.com/  http://www.oreilly.com/
http://conferences.oreilly.com/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From marvin at rectangular.com  Mon Jun 13 15:48:08 2005
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:48:08 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Big tied arrays
In-Reply-To: <20050613194724.GD16297@windhund.schwern.org>
References: <FC86EDFE-688C-405F-A609-409394C2A421@rectangular.com>
	<20050613194724.GD16297@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <CE82B7B0-CEF0-45F8-B21F-8DC4D98AF3B0@rectangular.com>


On Jun 13, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:41:12AM -0700, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
>
>> I've got a tied array class that can grow to a very large size (using
>> multiple files) mostly written.  Am I reinventing the wheel?  I
>> haven't tracked anything like it down on CPAN so far.  In a nutshell,
>> the scheme uses index files which store lookup data (filenum, offset,
>> length) against the data files, allowing storage of arbitrary
>> content.  Deletions don't disappear from the data files unless you
>> optimize the whole thing.
>>
>> The DB_RECNO option from DB_File uses a single-byte record separator,
>> so that's out.  Anything else?
>>
>
> Why do the details of the record separator, a purely internal detail,
> matter?
>
>
> --  
> Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/ 
> ~schwern
> You are wicked and wrong to have broken inside and peeked at the
> implementation and then relied upon it.
>     -- tchrist in <31832.969261130 at chthon>
>
>

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/


From marvin at rectangular.com  Mon Jun 13 15:51:03 2005
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:51:03 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Big tied arrays
In-Reply-To: <D10CC061-1EE4-429B-9F2D-5A3080A4DF05@rectangular.com>
References: <FC86EDFE-688C-405F-A609-409394C2A421@rectangular.com>
	<20050613194724.GD16297@windhund.schwern.org>
	<D10CC061-1EE4-429B-9F2D-5A3080A4DF05@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <A98B2F67-79BE-4EA4-8E66-3937B0AAA388@rectangular.com>

(whoops on that blank message...)

On Jun 13, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote:

>> The DB_RECNO option from DB_File uses a single-byte record separator,
>> so that's out.  Anything else?
>
> Why do the details of the record separator, a purely internal detail,
> matter?
>

I need to be able to delimit arbitrary data -- for instance, packed  
ints which may contain bytes that look like nulls or newlines.  The  
documentation for DB_File seems to indicate that DB_RECNO is for text  
only:

"DB_RECNO provides an interface to flat text files. Both variable and  
fixed length records are supported... "

It goes on to talk about the the delimiter as being a single byte  
only...  If you could use a 16 byte random string as a delimiter,  
then you could probabilistically get away with delimiting arbitrary  
data, though I wonder how long inititialization would take for a big  
file...

It would have been clearer if I'd elaborated on my assumption: Since  
DB_File DB_RECNO uses a single byte record separator -- rather than  
addressing information (!) -- it's appropriate only for text files.   
Short ones.

I'm surprised that no one's suggested a module close to what I  
described.  I'll consider breaking this code out of Kinosearch.

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/



From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Tue Jun 14 08:55:33 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:55:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] free booth at oscon
Message-ID: <58326.67.131.106.4.1118764533.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

This is the information on getting a free both.  We can only get one free
pass (access to the exhibit hall and products and services track sessions,
plus night events), but they don't seem to have a problem with us sharing
it.

Is this still something we're interested in?

Josh

-------- Original Message --------
From: Andrew Calvo <andrewc at oreilly.com>

Hi Josh,

Yes, you can have a free 10'x10' booth. The booth is empty, so you'll
need to rent carpet, bring or rent tables/chairs/electricity, etc.

You would need to staff it on Wed from 10-4:30 and 6-7:30, and then  on
Thursday, 10-4:30. You will get as many booth staff passes as you  need
for staffing the booth, and we'll provide one full conference  pass that
gets you into sessions on Wed-Friday.

Please fill out the attached contract, write in $0 for amount due and
fax back to me, with a print and web logo and 50 word description/URL.
Thanks,
Andrew


>Andrew, my name is Josh Heumann, and I am the leader of the Portland
> Perlmongers.  Allison Randal forwarded me your email about free booths
> in the exhibit hall for nonprofits, and I was wondering if that was
> still available.  Also, if it is, what times we would need to staff it,
> and what level of access is required to man the booth.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Josh Heumann


-- 
Conferences Sales Manager
O'Reilly Media, Inc.
1005 Gravenstein Hwy. N.
Sebastopol, CA 95472
Ph: 707-827-7176, Fax: 707-829-0104
andrewc at oreilly.com




From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun 15 16:18:46 2005
From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:18:46 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern
Message-ID: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>

Got the ambigous auto-completion helpfullness and --this=thing (should 
even to --this=thing=that if you're using a hash.)  No love for your 
~'s.  That's the shell's fault.

Release is maybe a week or two out still (mostly for needing to check 
out Pod::Readme.)

Feel free to play.  Send comments, tests, etc.

  http://scratchcomputing.com/svn/Getopt-Modern/trunk/

Any thoughts on the name?

Thanks,
Eric
-- 
Peer's Law: The solution to the problem changes the problem.
---------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------

From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun 15 16:31:39 2005
From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:31:39 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] free booth at oscon
In-Reply-To: <58326.67.131.106.4.1118764533.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
References: <58326.67.131.106.4.1118764533.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <200506151631.39409.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>

# The following was supposedly scribed by
# Josh Heumann
# on Tuesday 14 June 2005 08:55 am:

>Is this still something we're interested in?

Yes.  I'll labor for a part of a session pass.  What's the 
contribution/session hourly ratio?  I see 14.5 hours of booth-staffing 
required and (at-a-glance ~21 hours of sessions available.)  Maybe just 
call it one-for-one to be safe?

Should we wiki a sign-up sheet or what?  How many people in the group 
would like to go but don't plan to fully spend the prescribed amount of 
time/money?

--Eric
-- 
"Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse." 
                                       -- Murphy's Corollary
---------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------

From marvin at rectangular.com  Wed Jun 15 16:52:28 2005
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:52:28 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern
In-Reply-To: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
References: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <A108F055-AB56-4962-B529-3DEF43D0DEBD@rectangular.com>


On Jun 15, 2005, at 4:18 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> Got the ambigous auto-completion helpfullness and --this=thing (should
> even to --this=thing=that if you're using a hash.)  No love for your
> ~'s.  That's the shell's fault.

Groovy.  Good move, methinks.  My fingers type --option=foo by  
default, too.

> Any thoughts on the name?

Getopt::Strict?

Have you sent any messages to modules at perl.org?  The PAUSE admins  
hanging out there have a lot of experience in guiding namespace choices.

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/


From tex at off.org  Wed Jun 15 17:01:05 2005
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:01:05 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern
In-Reply-To: <A108F055-AB56-4962-B529-3DEF43D0DEBD@rectangular.com>
References: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<A108F055-AB56-4962-B529-3DEF43D0DEBD@rectangular.com>
Message-ID: <20050616000105.GN1706@gblx.net>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 04:52:28PM -0700, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> 
> On Jun 15, 2005, at 4:18 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> 
> > Got the ambigous auto-completion helpfullness and --this=thing (should
> > even to --this=thing=that if you're using a hash.)  No love for your
> > ~'s.  That's the shell's fault.
> 
> Groovy.  Good move, methinks.  My fingers type --option=foo by  
> default, too.
> 
> > Any thoughts on the name?
> 

	I must be getting too old. I'm starting to think
net::sbcglobal::Getopt and alias as Getopt sounds like a good idea.
	Maybe I'm just spending too much time with the java weenies.

	Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with Getopt::Modern, other
than the inherent trouble with naming modules in general (the next variety
will be Getopt::Postmodern).

	Austin

From schwern at pobox.com  Wed Jun 15 17:05:52 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:05:52 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern
In-Reply-To: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
References: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20050616000551.GA3777@windhund.schwern.org>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 04:18:46PM -0700, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> Any thoughts on the name?

Anything called "modern" inevitably winds up looking even more dated as it
starts to age.  Its like those documentary films from the 60s "Modern 
downtown Toledo, Ohio!" "Marvel at our ultra-modern Ford Edsil manfacturing
plant!"

Getopt::Longer? :)  Getopt::Long::mumble?

Since it handles both short and long, "long" seems a bit of a misnomer.

In times like this its a good idea to step back and enumerate what the
module actually does and what sets it apart from everything else, particularly
Getopt::Long.  Getopt::Modern doesn't suggest anything to the user about
what it really is: "Getopt::Long with some fixes applied".  But 
Getopt::Long::Fixed sorta sucks.  What's fixed?  What was broken?  Was it
really broken or just different?

Since its really just a non-backwards compatible version of Getopt::Long
maybe you can call it Getopt::Long2 in the vein of Apache2.


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
ROCKS FALL! EVERYONE DIES!
	http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05032002.shtml

From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 15 17:10:32 2005
From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (Ovid)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern
In-Reply-To: <20050616000105.GN1706@gblx.net>
Message-ID: <20050616001032.27253.qmail@web60819.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Austin Schutz <tex at off.org> wrote:
> 	I must be getting too old. I'm starting to think
> net::sbcglobal::Getopt and alias as Getopt sounds like a good idea.
> 	Maybe I'm just spending too much time with the java weenies.

Maybe it's just me, but I often thought that creating package names
from reversed domain names was a big bucket of stupid.  When people
from four companies release conceptually similar modules, perhaps even
inheriting from/delegating to one another, the names make life much
more confusing.
 
> 	Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with Getopt::Modern, other
> than the inherent trouble with naming modules in general (the next
> variety
> will be Getopt::Postmodern).

Hmm ... I kinda like Getopt::Postmodern.  Whatever happened to the
humor of popular modules like Carp?

Cheers,
Curtis

-- 
If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send
follow up questions to the list.

Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

From tex at off.org  Wed Jun 15 17:31:59 2005
From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:31:59 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern
In-Reply-To: <20050616001032.27253.qmail@web60819.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050616000105.GN1706@gblx.net>
	<20050616001032.27253.qmail@web60819.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050616003159.GO1706@gblx.net>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 05:10:32PM -0700, Ovid wrote:
> --- Austin Schutz <tex at off.org> wrote:
> > 	I must be getting too old. I'm starting to think
> > net::sbcglobal::Getopt and alias as Getopt sounds like a good idea.
> > 	Maybe I'm just spending too much time with the java weenies.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I often thought that creating package names
> from reversed domain names was a big bucket of stupid.  When people
> from four companies release conceptually similar modules, perhaps even
> inheriting from/delegating to one another, the names make life much
> more confusing.
>  

	Yes, if they inherit or delegate from each other and keep identical
names, it can cause confusion. Though.. having different names for the same
thing doesn't really help that situation, does it?

	I like it when four different companies are able to release the same
thing without having a namespace collision, especially when they are packaging
up some larger framework. If the modules really do have similar functionality,
I can compare and contrast them to see what will work for me - or use both
without fear of collisions.

	I dunno, but I find it a bummer that people a. have to come up with
something clever to mean what they want but not say it explicitly, and
b. can't have concise names or "top level" modules because the modules list
people don't like them and will debate endlessly about what the best answer
is to 'a'.

	*shrug*.. of course it's really just a matter of convention. There's
nothing to say that people _can't_ do it that way, they just _don't_.

	Of course in C++ (java too?) you can dump something into your namespace
without fouling everyone else's. Not sure about perl's alias. Maybe you might
know something about that. :-)

	Austin

From schwern at pobox.com  Thu Jun 16 00:02:14 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:02:14 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern
In-Reply-To: <20050616003159.GO1706@gblx.net>
References: <20050616000105.GN1706@gblx.net>
	<20050616001032.27253.qmail@web60819.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20050616003159.GO1706@gblx.net>
Message-ID: <20050616070214.GA5867@windhund.schwern.org>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 05:31:59PM -0700, Austin Schutz wrote:
> 	I dunno, but I find it a bummer that people a. have to come up with
> something clever to mean what they want but not say it explicitly, and
> b. can't have concise names or "top level" modules because the modules list
> people don't like them and will debate endlessly about what the best answer
> is to 'a'.

search.cpan.org has pretty much made the module list obsolescent.  I wouldn't
even worry about it anymore.


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
'All anyone gets in a mirror is themselves,' she said. 'But what you
gets in a good gumbo is everything.'
	-- "Witches Abroad" by Terry Prachett

From krisb at ring.org  Thu Jun 16 13:59:51 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:59:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506161313450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>


	I am looking for a system that will let me run inline tests
without making a separate file.  Something like

sumthing.pl:
=================================================
#!/your/perl/here -w
use strict;

eval {use Test::Inline::No::Really;}
  if $ARGV[0] eq 'test';

=begin testing

  is(summary(1,2,3,4,5), 15, "sum-tastic!");
  exit;

=end testing

print qq{=> }, summary(@ARGV), qq{\n};

sub summary {
  my $sum = 0;
  foreach (@_) {
    $sum += $_;
  }
  return $sum;
}
=================================================

sumthing.pl 1 2 3 4
=> 10

sumthing.pl test
ok 1 - sum-tastic!


Motivation: I am writing a CGI program that may
end up getting moved alot, and I don't want to
juggle a group of files with test files, etc.


I have found Pod::Tests, so I guess I could write
Test::Inline::No::Really like this:

=================================================
package Test::Inline::No::Really;
use Pod::Tests;
sub import {
  my $p = Pod::Tests->new;
  $p->parse_file($0);

  eval $p->build_tests($p->tests);
}
=================================================

I thought there was an existing package like this
but I haven't found it after some googling today.
Can anyone give me some links or ideas?

Thanks.

-Kris



From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun 16 14:07:17 2005
From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:07:17 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506161313450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506161313450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <200506161407.17737.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>

# The following was supposedly scribed by
# Kris Bosland
# on Thursday 16 June 2005 01:59 pm:

>Motivation: I am writing a CGI program that may
>end up getting moved alot, and I don't want to
>juggle a group of files with test files, etc.

One suggestion:  symlink to the program.

I know.  It doesn't do what you said you want to.  Sorry.

It depends on whether you want to make/Build this thing in the "normal" 
way, but my first thought is that you are going to end up juggling some 
set of files if you do have any kind of build system and that you might 
as well go with the flow.  If inline testing ultimately gives you a way 
to 'make test' or './Build test', then I guess go for it.

--Eric
-- 
"Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many 
rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book." 
                                            -- Ronald Reagan
---------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------

From krisb at ring.org  Thu Jun 16 14:26:53 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:26:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing
In-Reply-To: <200506161407.17737.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506161425280.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>


On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> >Motivation: I am writing a CGI program that may
> >end up getting moved alot, and I don't want to
> >juggle a group of files with test files, etc.
>
> One suggestion:  symlink to the program.

Well, when I say move, I mean it may move from a unix apache to Win32.
But even on one file cluster, Apache may do funny things with symlinks,
depending on paranoid security setups.

Thanks.

-Kris


From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun 16 14:29:09 2005
From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:29:09 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Getopt::Modern
In-Reply-To: <20050616000551.GA3777@windhund.schwern.org>
References: <200506151618.46549.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<20050616000551.GA3777@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <200506161429.09196.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>

# The following was supposedly scribed by
# Michael G Schwern
# on Wednesday 15 June 2005 05:05 pm:

>Getopt::Long::Fixed sorta sucks

Right.  I'm starting to think that Getopt::User might be the ticket, 
particularly given all the <wink>scathing</wink> reactionary 
programmer-y feedback that I'm getting on module-authors.

I've just finished Cooper's "The Inmates are Running the Asylum", so 
that's partly what is hatching this module (that and "I want an API".) 
Although I'm not using a user persona, I am trying to design the rules 
from the user's point of view (assuming a non-apologist user, which of 
course is hard to find among programmers.)

So, now I'm working on a user's guide and a whole slew of stuff to 
convince others that this set of rules is the right way to do it.

  http://scratchcomputing.com/svn/Getopt-Modern/trunk/
    data/notes/why_order_matters.txt
    lib/Getopt/Modern/UserGuide.pod

Johan seemed like he would be interested in changing Getopt::Long, so 
maybe we don't even need a name.

But hey, if I do go with Getopt::User, then Getopt::User::Guide becomes 
a no-brainer for a place to put the user (not programmer) 
documentation.  Thus, instead of explaining these rules in your own 
manpage you just say "see L<Getopt::User::Guide> for details about how 
to use options."

--Eric
-- 
"...the bourgeoisie were hated from both ends: by the proles, because 
they had all the money, and by the intelligentsia, because of their 
tendency to spend it on lawn ornaments." 
                                          -- Neal Stephenson
---------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------

From schwern at pobox.com  Thu Jun 16 19:43:29 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:43:29 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506161313450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506161313450.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <20050617024329.GA11853@windhund.schwern.org>

On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 01:59:51PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote:
> I am looking for a system that will let me run inline tests
> without making a separate file.

Test::Class.  Doesn't matter if your code is a class or not, it'll work.
The syntax is a bit different, tests in methods instead of tests in POD,
but the idea is the same.


> I have found Pod::Tests, so I guess I could write
> Test::Inline::No::Really like this:
> 
> =================================================
> package Test::Inline::No::Really;
> use Pod::Tests;
> sub import {
>   my $p = Pod::Tests->new;
>   $p->parse_file($0);
> 
>   eval $p->build_tests($p->tests);
> }
> =================================================
> 
> I thought there was an existing package like this
> but I haven't found it after some googling today.
> Can anyone give me some links or ideas?

That looks fairly sensible to me, though I never liked the "import == testing"
thing.  Seems too surprising and also walls off the "use Foo" interface from
other uses.  Slightly better to have to pass in a :test flag or something.


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.
	-- "Lords and Ladies" by Terry Prachett

From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Thu Jun 16 21:40:37 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:40:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] free booth at oscon
In-Reply-To: <200506151631.39409.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
References: <58326.67.131.106.4.1118764533.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<200506151631.39409.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <34225.130.94.161.230.1118983237.squirrel@joshheumann.com>

<quote who="Eric Wilhelm">
> Yes.  I'll labor for a part of a session pass.  What's the
> contribution/session hourly ratio?  I see 14.5 hours of booth-staffing
> required and (at-a-glance ~21 hours of sessions available.)  Maybe just
> call it one-for-one to be safe?
>
> Should we wiki a sign-up sheet or what?  How many people in the group
> would like to go but don't plan to fully spend the prescribed amount of
> time/money?

That's one, do we have any others?  We can start a wiki page, but I'd like
to know that there's at least a bit of interest.

Josh



From glim at mycybernet.net  Thu Jun 16 21:46:00 2005
From: glim at mycybernet.net (Gerard Lim)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:46 -0400
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Last-minute reminder -- YAPC::NA 2005
Message-ID: <mailman.33.1118984600.16827.pdx-pm-list@pm.org>

Here's a last reminder about Yet Another Perl Conference, North
America (YAPC::NA 2005)

    http://yapc.org/America

In case anyone out there has been sitting on the fence or has been
meaning to register but has put it on the backburner until now,
here is a final information package.

Dates:    Mon - Wed June 27 - 29, 2005  (11 days from now!)

Location: 89 Chestnut Street,
          University of Toronto,
          Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Accommodations
==============

Due to recent renegotiations with the conference facility and hotel,
89 Chestnut, there are still a few rooms left.  For details on
accommodations go to:

    http://www.yapc.org/America/accommodations-2005.shtml

For quick and easy booking:

    89 Chestnut Phone:        +1-416-977-0707
    Conference booking code:  perl0626

The base rate is approx. CAD$80/night, which is *great* for downtown
Toronto.  Add in taxes and in-room high speed internet and it's up to
about CAD$95/night.  Book yourself to check-in on Sunday the 26th and
check-out on the morning of Wednesday the 29th.


Conference Registration
=======================

Registration is easy and cheap - only USD$85 - see

    http://yapc.org/America/register-2005.shtml

for details or register directly online at


http://donate.perlfoundation.org/index.pl?node=registrant%20info&conference_id=423

The schedule is awesome -
    http://yapc.org/America/schedule-2005/day1.html
>From here, click on the "Day 2" and "Day 3" spots near the top to go
from page to page.  Click on a talk name to get details regarding the
talk.

Speakers include Larry Wall, Allison Randal, Autrijus Tang, Brian
Ingerson, Andy Lester, chromatic, brian d foy, Chip Salzenberg & Dan
Sugalski... and many more!


[ This message was sent by Gerard Lim <glim at mycybernet.net> on
  behalf of the YAPC::NA 2005 Conference organizing committee
  of the Toronto Perl Mongers.  Thanks for your patience and
  support. ]


From krisb at ring.org  Thu Jun 16 23:16:31 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:16:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing
In-Reply-To: <20050617024329.GA11853@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506162311350.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>


	I am now doing something similar, but with
a test method, so I have

use Test::Inline::No::Really;

my $t = Test::Inline::No::Really->new; #parses

$t->test;

#I want this to return test results,
#e.g.
#    1..8
#    ok 1 - new() returned something
#    ok 2 -   and it's the right class
#    ok 3 -   sec()
#    ok 4 -   min()
#    ok 5 -   hour()
#    not ok 6 -   day()
#    #     Failed test (- at line 16)
#    #          got: '16'
#    #     expected: '17'
#    ok 7 -   month()
#    ok 8 -   year()
#    # Looks like you failed 1 tests of 8.

#haven't gotten that working yet

Thanks for the advice.  This is a little frustrating up front but I am
looking forward to upfront tests and specification driven coding.

Thanks.

-Kris

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, Michael G Schwern wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 01:59:51PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote:
> > I am looking for a system that will let me run inline tests
> > without making a separate file.
>
> Test::Class.  Doesn't matter if your code is a class or not, it'll work.
> The syntax is a bit different, tests in methods instead of tests in POD,
> but the idea is the same.
>
>
> > I have found Pod::Tests, so I guess I could write
> > Test::Inline::No::Really like this:
> >
> > =================================================
> > package Test::Inline::No::Really;
> > use Pod::Tests;
> > sub import {
> >   my $p = Pod::Tests->new;
> >   $p->parse_file($0);
> >
> >   eval $p->build_tests($p->tests);
> > }
> > =================================================
> >
> > I thought there was an existing package like this
> > but I haven't found it after some googling today.
> > Can anyone give me some links or ideas?
>
> That looks fairly sensible to me, though I never liked the "import == testing"
> thing.  Seems too surprising and also walls off the "use Foo" interface from
> other uses.  Slightly better to have to pass in a :test flag or something.
>
>
> --
> Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
> Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.
> 	-- "Lords and Ladies" by Terry Prachett
>
>
> !DSPAM:42b238dd144097936921121!
>
>


From marvin at rectangular.com  Fri Jun 17 04:14:07 2005
From: marvin at rectangular.com (Marvin Humphrey)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 04:14:07 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] free booth at oscon
In-Reply-To: <34225.130.94.161.230.1118983237.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
References: <58326.67.131.106.4.1118764533.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
	<200506151631.39409.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net>
	<34225.130.94.161.230.1118983237.squirrel@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <88E2DA8C-4DB0-4042-9BDC-FEAA8D99E99B@rectangular.com>


On Jun 16, 2005, at 9:40 PM, Josh Heumann wrote:
> <quote who="Eric Wilhelm">
>
>> Yes.  I'll labor for a part of a session pass.  What's the
>> contribution/session hourly ratio?  I see 14.5 hours of booth- 
>> staffing
>> required and (at-a-glance ~21 hours of sessions available.)  Maybe  
>> just
>> call it one-for-one to be safe?
>>
>> Should we wiki a sign-up sheet or what?  How many people in the group
>> would like to go but don't plan to fully spend the prescribed  
>> amount of
>> time/money?
>>
>
> That's one, do we have any others?

I'd like to participate.

Marvin Humphrey
Rectangular Research
http://www.rectangular.com/




From krisb at ring.org  Fri Jun 17 14:34:20 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:34:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing
In-Reply-To: <20050617024329.GA11853@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506171432190.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>


	Say, the wacky filehandle tying you are doing in pod2test*, does
that work on Win32 perl?  I would like to capture test results from the
inline test I am working on so I can massage them before printing.

Thanks.

-Kris


* e.g.

package Catch;

sub TIEHANDLE {
    my($class, $var) = @_;
    return bless { var => $var }, $class;
}

sub PRINT  {
    my($self) = shift;
    ${'main::'.$self->{var}} .= join '', @_;
}

sub OPEN  {}    # XXX Hackery in case the user redirects
sub CLOSE {}    # XXX STDERR/STDOUT.  This is not the behavior we want.

sub READ {}
sub READLINE {}
sub GETC {}
sub BINMODE {}

my $Original_File = '%s';

package main;

# pre-5.8.0's warns aren't caught by a tied STDERR.
$SIG{__WARN__} = sub { $main::_STDERR_ .= join '', @_; };
tie *STDOUT, 'Catch', '_STDOUT_' or die $!;
tie *STDERR, 'Catch', '_STDERR_' or die $!;



From schwern at pobox.com  Sat Jun 18 13:09:46 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:09:46 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506171432190.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <20050617024329.GA11853@windhund.schwern.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506171432190.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <20050618200946.GA17348@windhund.schwern.org>

On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 02:34:20PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote:
> 	Say, the wacky filehandle tying you are doing in pod2test*, does
> that work on Win32 perl?  I would like to capture test results from the
> inline test I am working on so I can massage them before printing.

Yeah, it should have no problem.


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
'All anyone gets in a mirror is themselves,' she said. 'But what you
gets in a good gumbo is everything.'
	-- "Witches Abroad" by Terry Prachett

From krisb at ring.org  Tue Jun 21 16:43:04 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:43:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing
In-Reply-To: <20050618200946.GA17348@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506211641090.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Michael G Schwern wrote:

> > 	Say, the wacky filehandle tying you are doing in pod2test*, does
> > that work on Win32 perl?  I would like to capture test results from the
> > inline test I am working on so I can massage them before printing.
>
> Yeah, it should have no problem.

I am having a problem trying to make this work with Test::More.  Is there
some IO redirection happening there?  I have included an example below.

BTW, should I call you 'Michal' or 'Schwern'?

Thanks.

-Kris


>cat test/catch.pl
#!/usr/$work/bin/perl -w
use strict;

package Catch;

sub TIEHANDLE {
    my($class, $var) = @_;
    return bless { var => $var }, $class;
}

sub PRINT  {
    my($self) = shift;
    no strict "refs";
    my $var = 'main::'.$self->{var};
    print STDERR "adding =>@_<= to =>$var<=\n";
    ${$var} .= join '', @_;
}

sub OPEN  {}    # XXX Hackery in case the user redirects
sub CLOSE {}    # XXX STDERR/STDOUT.  This is not the behavior we want.

sub READ {}
sub READLINE {}
sub GETC {}
sub BINMODE {}

package main;

use vars qw($_MYSTDOUT_);
$_MYSTDOUT_ = "bar\n";

my $codestring1 = "print qw{foo\n};\n";
my $codestring2 = "use Test::More qw(no_plan);\nprint qw{foofoo\n};\n";
my $codestring3 = "use File::Find;\nprint qw{foofoofoo\n};\n";

tie *STDOUT, 'Catch', '_MYSTDOUT_' or die $!;
#tie *STDERR, 'Catch', '_MYSTDERR_' or die $!;

my $result = eval $codestring1;
$result = eval $codestring2;
$result = eval $codestring3;

untie *STDOUT;
untie *STDERR;

no strict "refs";
print "got =>$_MYSTDOUT_<=\n";

__END__

>perl test/catch.pl
adding =>foo<= to =>main::_MYSTDOUT_<=
adding =>foofoofoo<= to =>main::_MYSTDOUT_<=
got =>bar
foofoofoofoo<=
>



From perl-pm at joshheumann.com  Tue Jun 21 16:51:23 2005
From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:51:23 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] [marsee@oreilly.com: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program,
	June 17]
Message-ID: <20050621235123.GB16627@joshheumann.com>

----- Forwarded message from Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com> -----

From: Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com>
Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, June 17
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:31:47 -0700
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:leave-usergroups-5342483O at newsletter.oreilly.com>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on codepirates.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=6.0 tests=none autolearn=unavailable 
	version=3.0.3
X-Keywords:                 
X-UID: 63

================================================================
O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders
June 17, 2005
================================================================
-Going to OSCON
-Need a Speaker?
-Put Up an O'Reilly OSCON Banner, Get a Free Book
-Promotional Material Available
----------------------------------------------------------------
Book Info
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Review books are available 
Copies of our books are available for your members to review--
send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on 
your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date. 
Allow at least four weeks for shipping. 


***Please send copies of your book reviews
Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review.
For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to:
http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html


***Discount information
Don't forget to remind your members about our 20% discount on O'Reilly, 
No Starch, Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, and Syngress 
books. Just use code DSUG.


***Group purchases with better discounts are available
Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in 
touch with our sales department.

----------------------------------------------------------------
General News
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Are you going to OSCON in Portland, OR this year?
Please let me know!


***Need a speaker?
"Digital Audio Essentials" author Bruce Fries is looking for speaking
opportunities. If you are interested, send me an email and let me know how
many members attend your meetings and where you meet.


***Put Up an O'Reilly OSCON Banner, Get a Free Book
We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their
web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our O'Reilly
2005 Open Source Convention banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book of
your choice.

OSCON Banners:
http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/oscon2005/


***Promotional Material Available:
The following items are available for your next meeting.
Numbers are limited so please don't wait too long.

Let me know the type and the amount you would like
and I'll do my best.

-O'Reilly Open Source Convention Brochures
-O'Reilly Where 2.0 Conference Brochures
-MAKE Magazine (limit one per group)
-JavaOne Pavilion Guest Pass ( San Francisco, CA)



================================================================
O'Reilly News for User Group Members
June 17, 2005
================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------
Book News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Assembling Panoramic Photos: A Designer's Notebook
-Ending Spam
-Toad Pocket Reference for Oracle, 2nd Edition
-Mac OS X Tiger for Unix Geeks
-Firefox Secrets
-Ship It!
-eBay Hacks, 2nd Edition
-Digital Video Hacks
-Essential Mac OS X Panther Server Administration
-.NET Gotchas
-MAKE Subscriptions Available
----------------------------------------------------------------
Upcoming Events
----------------------------------------------------------------
-O'Reilly at JavaOne, San Francisco, CA--June 27-30
-James Avery at the Dayton .NET Developers Group, 
 Fairborn, OH--July 25, 2005
----------------------------------------------------------------
Conference News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Early Registration Ending Soon for the O'Reilly Open Source Convention, 
 Portland, OR--August 1-5
-Last Chance for Where 2.0 Conference, 
 San Francisco, CA--June 29-30
----------------------------------------------------------------
News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Historical Maps Online
-Creating a Textbook My Way: An Interview with Charles Anderson
-Wire Frame Your Site
-Live Backups of MySQL Using Replication
-Ajax on Rails
-Top Ten Data Crunching Tips and Tricks
-What's New In PHP 5.1
-An Introduction to Tiger Terminal, Part 2
-Ten PowerPoint 2004 Tips to Beat Tight Deadlines
-It's True! Jobs Switches to Intel: A Review of the WWDC 05 Keynote
-Using Tabbed Browsing in Internet Explorer 6
-Using Microsoft's Malicious Software Removal Tool
-Porting a Project from Visual Studio .NET to Mono
-How to Talk About Jini, J2EE, and Web Services at a Cocktail Party
-Exploring Laszlo Classes, Attributes, and Events
-Adam Williams: Massive Guitars, Micro Computers
-Bring Your MIDI Music to Life
-MAKE's Rebellious Credo: Void the Warranty!
-MAKE: Blog
================================================
Book News
================================================
Did you know you can request a free book to review for your
group? Ask your group leader for more information.

For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html

Don't forget, you can receive 20% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, 
Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress book you 
purchase directly from O'Reilly.
Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938.
http://www.oreilly.com/

***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at 
least $29.95 that go to a single U.S. address. This offer 
applies to U.S. delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico.
For more details, go to:
http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html

----------------------------------------------------------------
New Releases
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Assembling Panoramic Photos: A Designer's Notebook
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596009755
Reflecting the very best of French photography, graphic design, and
digital artistry, this book is dazzling in concept and design. Part art
book, part how-to guide, this Designer's Notebook sits you down next to
renowned digital artists as they work step-by-step to create high-quality
panoramas and 360-degree virtual reality scenes. It's a goldmine for any
digital artist who wants to learn new Photoshop techniques for maximum
effect.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/assemblingadn/ 

Chapter 6, "On the Boulevards," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/assemblingadn/chapter/ch06.pdf


***Ending Spam
Publisher: No Starch
ISBN: 1593270526
This landmark title describes, in-depth, how statistical filtering is
being used by next generation spam filters to identify and filter spam.
Readers gain a complete understanding of the mathematical approaches used
in today's spam filters, decoding, tokenization, the use of various
algorithms (including Bayesian analysis and Markovian discrimination), and
the benefits of using open-source solutions to end spam.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1593270526/


***Toad Pocket Reference for Oracle, 2nd Edition
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596009712
This new edition, revised to reflect Toad for Oracle V8.0 and V8.5, is
packed with quick-reference material. It covers new features (e.g.,
CodeXpert and Script Debugger), shortcut keys, productivity tips, and
more. If you're a developer needing to streamline code development or a
DBA trying to simplify day-to-day administrative tasks, this pocket-sized
guide is the one book to have by your side.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/toadpr2/


***Mac OS X Tiger for Unix Geeks
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596009127
This is the book for Mac command-line fans. Completely revised and updated
to cover Mac OS X Tiger, this invaluable resource helps you quickly and
painlessly get acclimated with Tiger's familiar-yet-foreign Unix
environment. If you're a Unix geek with an interest in Mac OS X, you'll
find that this concise book is the ideal survival guide for taming the
Unix side of Tiger.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/macxtigerunix/ 

Chapter 2, "Searching and Metadata," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/macxtigerunix/chapter/index.html


***Firefox Secrets
Publisher: SitePoint
ISBN: 0975240242
"Firefox Secrets" is a guide to getting the most from the Mozilla Firefox
browser. It will teach you to use all the hidden features, extensions, and
tricks available to Firefox. This book is loaded with tips and advice on
everything from making your browser faster to essential tools for
developers, including plenty of examples throughout.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0975240242/


***Ship It!
Publisher: Pragmatic
ISBN: 0974514047
Aimed at beginning to intermediate programmers, this book provides a
wealth of practical advice on how to ensure successful software projects.
It begins by introducing the common technical infrastructure that every
project needs, letting readers choose from a variety of recommended
technologies according to their skills and budgets. The next sections
outline the necessary steps to get software out the door reliably, using
easy-to-adopt, best-of-breed practices that actually work.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0974514047/


***eBay Hacks, 2nd Edition
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0-596-10068-X
This second edition has been completely revised and updated with 30 brand
new hacks, plus tons of expanded, deepened, or otherwise completely
rewritten hacks. Learn clever tricks and shortcuts, such as advanced
searching techniques, selling strategies, photography tips, and even
research techniques for PowerSellers. This bestseller supplies you with
the tools you need to master eBay, whether as a buyer or seller, casual
surfer or serious collector, novice or seasoned expert.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ebayhks2/

Sample Hack 87, "Sell and Ship Internationally," is available online
(along with six others):
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ebayhks2/chapter/index.html


***Digital Video Hacks
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596009461
>From acquiring footage, mixing, editing, and adding effects to final
distribution, this book provides unique tips, tools, and techniques for
every stage of video production. Whether you're looking for a new
technique to include in your next project, a solution to a common problem,
or just a little inspiration, "Digital Video Hacks" reintroduces you to
the digital video you only thought you knew.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/digitalvideohks/


***Essential Mac OS X Panther Server Administration
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596006357
If you've ever wondered how to safely manipulate Mac OS X Panther Server's
many underlying configuration files, this book's for you. Full of
much-needed insight, clear explanations, troubleshooting tips, and
security information in every chapter, this comprehensive guide shows
system administrators how to utilize and customize the software's
capabilities and features for their individual needs. Topics covered
include installation, deployment, server management, web application
services, data gathering, and more.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/macxserver/


***.NET Gotchas
Publisher: O'Reilly
ISBN: 0596009097
The ultimate guide for pain-free coding, this book tackles 75 common .NET
programming pitfalls, steering you away from application performance
problems and tainted code. The book is organized into nine chapters, each
focusing on those features and constructs of the .NET platform that
consistently baffle developers, complete with detailed examples,
discussions, and guidelines for avoiding them. It's the ideal resource for
.NET developers yearning for a more productive, stress-free existence.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/netgotchas/


***MAKE Magazine Subscriptions Available
The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you
subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--the first one plus four
more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this great
offer for charter subscribers: five volumes for the cost of four.
Subscribe at:
https://www.pubservice.com/MK/Subnew.aspx?PC=MK&PK=M5ZUGLA

================================================
Upcoming Events
================================================
***For more events, please see:
http://events.oreilly.com/


***O'Reilly at JavaOne, San Francisco, CA--June 27-30
Drop by our booth (#537) to say hi and check out our latest Java
offerings. This conference takes place at Moscone Center, 
San Francisco, CA.
ttp://java.sun.com/javaone/sf/index.jsp

***James Avery at the Dayton .NET Developers Group, 
 Fairborn, OH--July 25, 2005	
Author James Avery ("Visual Studio Hacks") discusses getting the most out
of Visual Studio's Integrated Development Environment with his talk titled
"Pimp your IDE." James is the founder of the Cincinnati .NET Users Group
and is the founder and president of InfoZerk, a software consulting
company. The meeting starts at 6pm.
http://www.daytondevgroup.net/schedule.htm

================================================
Conference News
================================================
***Early Registration Ending Soon for the O'Reilly Open Source Convention,
 Portland, OR--August 1-5
OSCON 2005 explores three deep trends affecting open source: the
commoditization of software, network-enabled collaboration, and software
customizability. Join us at this essential gathering of open source
leaders and practitioners of every persuasion to exchange ideas and push
the boundaries of vital open source technologies. This year, we introduce
the Open Source Business Review, along with a host of other exciting
presentations and events.
http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/

User Group members who register before June 20, 2005 get a double
discount. Use code "os05grpusr" when you register, and receive 15% off
the early registration price.

To register for the conference, go to:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2005/create/ord_os05


***Last Chance to Register for the Where 2.0 Conference,
 San Francisco, CA--June 29-30
Join us at the first O'Reilly Where 2.0 Conference. Location-based
services and mapping are becoming mainstream technologies. Meanwhile,
innovative new software makes it possible to apply the wealth of new data
to old business problems. Come explore the emerging consumer and
enterprise ecosystems around location-aware technologies that increasingly
impact the way we work and play.
http://conferences.oreilly.com/where/

Use code "whereug" when you register, and receive 15% off the registration
price.

To register for the conference, go to:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/where2005/create/ord_where

================================================
News From O'Reilly & Beyond
================================================
---------------------
General News
---------------------
***Historical Maps Online 
David Rumsey writes about his collection of more than 150,000 historical
maps of the Americas and the world, many of which he has made available
free to the public in an online map library. At O'Reilly's Where 2.0
Conference, David will draw on his personal map collection, as well as his
work with geographic information systems, to discuss how information of
all kinds has been mapped and will be mapped in the future.
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2005/06/02/davidrumsey.html


***Creating a Textbook My Way: An Interview with Charles Anderson
Charles Anderson is an assistant professor in the Division of Computer
Science at Western Oregon University, teaching mostly networking and
operating system courses. Being very particular about the materials
covered in his classes, he's had difficulty finding appropriate and timely
textbooks. Learn how Charles used SafariU to create his custom textbook,
while avoiding copyright fair use limitations and the time-consuming
process of gathering appropriate materials. Check out the SafariU homepage
for details and a demo.
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/news/safariuanderson.html


***Wire Frame Your Site
Many elements of a site affect how successfuly it communicates with users.
Wire frames can untangle your site's layout from its graphical
communication, to help boost usability, logical content flow, and support
the creation of a compelling graphic design.
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/wire-frame-your-site

---------------------
Open Source
---------------------
***Live Backups of MySQL Using Replication 
One of the difficulties with a large and active MySQL database is making
clean backups without having to bring the server down. A simple method to
ensure reliable backups is to set up replication for MySQL. Russell Dyer,
author of "MySQL in a Nutshell," walks through the process of using
replication for data backups.
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/06/16/MySQLian.html


***Ajax on Rails 
XMLHttpRequest and Ruby on Rails are two hot topics in web development. As
you ought to expect by now, they work really well together. Curt Hibbs
explains the minimal Ajax you need to know and the minimal Ruby you need
to write to Ajax-ify your Rails applications.
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/06/09/rails_ajax.html


***Top Ten Data Crunching Tips and Tricks 
Every day, programmers perform unglamorous but necessary data crunching:
recycling legacy data, checking configuration files, yanking data out of
web server logs, and more. Knowing how to crunch data with the least
amount of effort can make the difference between meeting a deadline and
making another pot of coffee. Greg Wilson, author of Pragmatic's "Data
Crunching," offers ten tips for crunch time.
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/06/09/datacrunching.html


***What's New In PHP 5.1
Explore the new features and changes to the popular open-source web
development technology.
http://www.sitepoint.com/blog-post-view.php?id=272086

---------------------
Mac
---------------------
***An Introduction to Tiger Terminal, Part 2 
In this second tutorial on Tiger Terminal by MacinTech UG member Mary
Norbury-Glaser, you'll learn how to use the terminal app to look at
external volumes, then enable ssh to access files, scp to securely copy
them remotely, sftp for secure ftp, and finally how to use rsync to
synchronize files between two computers.
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/06/14/terminal2.html


***Ten PowerPoint 2004 Tips to Beat Tight Deadlines 
PowerPoint 2004 lets you turn text, graphics, sounds, and movies into
dazzling presentations that get your message across in high style. But
what if you're on a short deadline? Franklin Tessler, author of "Office
2004 for Mac: The Missing Manual," shows you ten ways to use PowerPoint to
put together slideshows in no time.
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/06/10/office04forMac.html


***It's True! Jobs Switches to Intel: A Review of the WWDC 05 Keynote 
Don't get too comfortable after making the transition to Mac OS X. Steve
Jobs decides to keep things interesting by announcing during his WWDC 05
keynote that Apple will switch to Intel processors. Here's what he said
and how he plans to make it happen.
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/06/07/wwdc.html

---------------------
Windows/.NET
---------------------
***Using Tabbed Browsing in Internet Explorer 6 
You don't need to wait for Internet Explorer 7 for tabbed browsing--with
the latest MSN Toolbar, you can use it in IE 6. Wei-Meng Lee shows you how
to use it.
http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/06/14/ie_tabs.html


***Using Microsoft's Malicious Software Removal Tool
The Microsoft Malicious Software Removal Tool can rid your PC of malware,
even if you're already protected by antivirus software. Mitch Tulloch
shows you the ins and outs of how to use it. Mitch is the author of
"Windows Server Hacks."
http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/06/01/malware_removal.html


***Porting a Project from Visual Studio .NET to Mono 
Three years ago, when .NET was still in pre-release status, Kevin Farnham
developed a C# application to automatically generate stock market web
pages. Recently, he ported the project to Mono and Debian Linux. Follow
along to see how the port went.
http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2005/06/13/vs2mono.html

---------------------
Java
---------------------
***How to Talk About Jini, J2EE, and Web Services at a Cocktail Party 
Heard about distributed technologies for Java, but not sure what they are
or why they're important? Kathy Sierra and Bert Bates, authors of "Head
First Java, 2nd Edition," present this cocktail-party overview. Hold your
own in conversation with Java geeks.
http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/08/27/cocktails.html


***Exploring Laszlo Classes, Attributes, and Events 
Laszlo offers an interesting option for rich client-side GUIs--XML markup
of widgets and their event handling, which is then converted into a Flash
executable that is run with the Flash plugin in the user's browser. Satya
Komatineni introduces Laszlo and shows how to get started writing web
applications with it.
http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/06/15/laszlo.html

---------------------
Digital Media
---------------------
***Adam Williams: Massive Guitars, Micro Computers
The former Powerman 5000 guitarist reveals how to make huge guitar sounds
on a home computer--without waking the neighbors--then shares loads of MP3
examples.
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/06/15/williams.html


***Bring Your MIDI Music to Life
Jim Aikin shares numerous tips on getting the best musical expression out
of them--both through playing technique and crafty computer editing.
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/06/08/controller2.html

---------------------
MAKE
---------------------
***MAKE's Rebellious Credo: Void the Warranty! 
"New York Times" columnist Lawrence Downes recently touted the virtues of
O'Reilly's new MAKE magazine. Downes salutes MAKE's renegade DIY spirit,
noting, "In this world, to tinker--to open the case, to fiddle with wires,
and see what happens--is to rebel." Are you ready to rebel? (Free
registration required)
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/12/opinion/12sun3.html?


***MAKE: Blog
Phillip Torrone kicks the tires on the iPod photo connector. The iPod
photo connector is a neat little accessory ($29) that you plug in to your
iPod photo and to your supported camera; it can transfer all the photos
off your camera and to the iPod, giving you 40/60 gigs of storage. The
connector charges the shuffle and you can make a super-cheap DIY version
of the Belkin media reader, too. 
http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/06/ipod_photo_conn.html


***For more information on MAKE, go to:
http://www.makezine.com/


================================================
>From Your Peers
===============================================
***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups
around the globe are up to:
http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi

Until next time--

Marsee Henon


================================================================
O'Reilly 
1005 Gravenstein Highway North  
Sebastopol, CA   95472
http://ug.oreilly.com/  http://www.oreilly.com
================================================================

----- End forwarded message -----

From schwern at pobox.com  Tue Jun 21 17:19:41 2005
From: schwern at pobox.com (Michael G Schwern)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:19:41 -0700
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506211641090.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
References: <20050618200946.GA17348@windhund.schwern.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0506211641090.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>
Message-ID: <20050622001941.GA24085@windhund.schwern.org>

On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 04:43:04PM -0700, Kris Bosland wrote:
> I am having a problem trying to make this work with Test::More.  Is there
> some IO redirection happening there?  I have included an example below.
> 
> BTW, should I call you 'Michal' or 'Schwern'?

Either one.  Though be sure to use proper spelling when you speak.

Also keep in mind that the way Test::Inline's tying code works is a little
odd.  It has to populate the $_STDOUT_ and $_STDERR_ globals.  Its a bit
simpler without that need, as in this code:

http://search.cpan.org/src/MSCHWERN/Test-Simple-0.60/t/lib/TieOut.pm

Anyhow, the redirect code looks fine but you probably have a hidden syntax
error.


> use vars qw($_MYSTDOUT_);
> $_MYSTDOUT_ = "bar\n";
> 
> my $codestring1 = "print qw{foo\n};\n";

qw{} does not mean what you think it means.  I think you mean qq{}.


> my $result = eval $codestring1;
> $result = eval $codestring2;
> $result = eval $codestring3;

I'll betcha if you check $@ after each of those evals you'll find your
error.


-- 
Michael G Schwern     schwern at pobox.com     http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.
	-- "Lords and Ladies" by Terry Prachett

From krisb at ring.org  Tue Jun 21 19:52:24 2005
From: krisb at ring.org (Kris Bosland)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:52:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pdx-pm] Even more inline testing
In-Reply-To: <20050622001941.GA24085@windhund.schwern.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0506211945540.9057-100000@ender.ring.org>



On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Michael G Schwern wrote:

> > BTW, should I call you 'Michal' or 'Schwern'?
>
> Either one.  Though be sure to use proper spelling when you speak.

	Thanks.  I guess I my spell check crutch.

> qw{} does not mean what you think it means.  I think you mean qq{}.
>

> I'll betcha if you check $@ after each of those evals you'll find your
> error.

I'll check the errors.

-Kris