From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Aug 2 21:34:10 2004 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:12 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: -I-5 South. -Take the MULTNOMAH BLVD. exit, exit number 296B. -Merge onto SW MULTNOMAH BLVD. -MULTNOMAH BLVD becomes -SW GARDEN HOME RD -Turn RIGHT at SW 84th AVE -We're the first driveway on the RIGHT. Please park on the street. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Aug 2 21:34:10 2004 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:12 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: -I-5 North -Take the OR-217 exit, exit number 292, towards TIGARD/BEAVERTON. -Merge onto OR-217 N. -Take the GREENBURG RD. exit towards METZGER. -Turn RIGHT onto SW GREENBURG RD. -SW GREENBURG RD becomes SW OLESON RD. -Turn LEFT onto SW GARDEN HOME RD. -Turn RIGHT at SW 84th AVE -We're the first driveway on the RIGHT. Please park on the street. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Aug 2 21:34:10 2004 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:12 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: -Beginning at OR-217 -Take the ALLEN BLVD. exit, exit #2B -Turn Left on SW ALLEN BLVD -Continue on SW ALLEN BLVD/SW ALLEN RD -Turn Right on SW 92ND AVE -Turn Left on SW GARDEN HOME RD -Turn LEFT at SW 84th AVE -We're the first driveway on the RIGHT. Please park on the street. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Aug 2 21:34:10 2004 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:13 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The "pearls" in question center not only on choosing the right algorithms (like binary searches, sorting techniques, or sparse arrays) but also on showing how to solve problems effectively. Each chapter frames a particular programming task--such as sorting numbers, creating anagrams, or counting the words in a block of text--many drawn from Bentley's experiences in his long career as a developer. The book traces the process of arriving at a fast, efficient, and accurate solution, along with code profiling to discover what works best. After refining the correct answer, each chapter enumerates programming principles that you can use on your own. The exercises have solutions in C and C++, but don't let that scare you off. The concepts are general. The goal of this book is to help you *think* like a programmer. Giving solutions to the puzzles is only a means to an end, and this book is all about the means. Some of the puzzles may be easily solved in Perl simply because it's a high- level language, but there are plenty of clever problems. For example: Q: What's the fastest, most space-efficient way to sort all of Portland's 503 phone numbers? -Joshua [1] Bentley, Jon Louis, _Programming_Pearls, 2nd ed, Addison-Wesley, 1999. http://tinyurl.com/1myw From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Aug 2 21:34:10 2004 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:15 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Perl Conference dates and location announced posted by gnat on 2002.11.06 17:59 gnat writes "The Open Source Convention (including The Perl Conference) will be in Portland for 2003. The dates are July 7-11 at Marriott Portland Downtown." -Joshua From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Aug 2 21:34:10 2004 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:15 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Send to the list: Received: from mail.pm.org ([64.49.222.22]) by sage.eli.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA36AE; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 00:16:38 -0800 Sent to me, direct: Received: from red.stonehenge.com ([65.208.40.162]) by sage.eli.net Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1A29 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 03:49:05 -0800 That's over 20 hours. -J From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Aug 2 21:34:10 2004 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:16 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: # Why my favorite module is X. # I want to do cool project X. Does anyone want to help? # Successful Project: I did project X. It was a success. Here's how you could benefit. # Failed Project: I did project X. It was a failure, and here's why. # Perl Heresy: People always say X, but they're wrong. Here's why. # You All Suck: Here's what is wrong with the Perl community. # Call to Action: Let's all do more of X / less of X. # A Funny Thing happened to me on the Way to P5P/clpm/PM. # Wouldn't it be cool if X? # Someone needs to do X. # Perl Wish List # Why X was a mistake. # Why X looks like a mistake, but isn't. # What it's like to do X. # Here's a useful technique that worked. # Here's a technique I thought would be useful but didn't work. # Why module X sucks. # Comparison of modules X and Y. # We should be paying more attention to X. # My Favorite Perl Feature Q: I still have questions! A: Mark-Jason probably answers your question on http://perl.plover.com/lt/ . Q: How do I sign up? A: Just send em an email with your title and brief summary. -Joshua PS You have one month to plan, but please don't wait until the last minute. If you have an idea about what you'll be presenting, email me sooner rather than later. It really helps with the organizing. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Aug 2 21:34:10 2004 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:18 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: perl: warning: Setting locale failed. (S) The whole warning message will look something like: perl: warning: Setting locale failed. perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: LC_ALL = "En_US", LANG = (unset) are supported and installed on your system. perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C"). Exactly what were the failed locale settings varies. In the above the settings were that the LC_ALL was "En_US" and the LANG had no value. This error means that Perl detected that you and/or your operating system supplier and/or system administrator have set up the so-called locale system but Perl could not use those settings. This was not dead serious, fortunately: there is a "default locale" called "C" that Perl can and will use, the script will be run. Before you really fix the problem, however, you will get the same error message each time you run Perl. How to really fix the problem can be found in perllocale section LOCALE PROBLEMS. This may not have been written by a native English-speaker methinks. ;-) -J PS If a perl warning or error ever mystifies you, just add the line 'use diagnostics;' to the top of your program. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Aug 2 21:34:10 2004 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:18 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I have a simple binding library which lets you do something like the following: class Foo attr_reader :bar, baz attr_writer :bar, :baz end Persist::bind(Foo, 'foo_table', :bar, :baz) f = Foo.fetch('pkey_value') f.bar = 3 f.store Foo.select('where bar > ?', 2) {|foo_obj| p foo_obj } It handles about 80% of the database queries I use in a moderately complex (~20kloc) business application, with the remaining bits done in basic DBI calls. I've also been experimenting with a thread-safe LRU cache for objects, so that at least multiple concurrent reads of a database-bound data object don't have to make a full round trip to the database for each instance. Right now, it's not really package as a standalone library, but I'd be happy to go back over the code, clean it up, and either post it here or on RAA for others to try out. Phil ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about Ruby, check out: http://www.ruby-lang.org To subscribe to the PDX.rb mailing list, send an email to: pdxruby-subscribe@kohalabs.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Aug 2 21:34:10 2004 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon Aug 2 21:34:20 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: One would think that a legislative measure giving state government's computer techs a green light to deploy such software would be a no-brainer. Indeed, this is exactly what House Bill 2892, commonly known as the "Open Source Software for Oregon Bill," does. How's that? "Open Source Software for Oregon Bill," or "Open Source Software for Oregon, Bill" Sometimes my dyslexic brain is a major source of amusement for me... lysDexics of the world, Untie!!! -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRunningWolf@att.net From curtis_ovid_poe at yahoo.com Tue Aug 3 16:39:52 2004 From: curtis_ovid_poe at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Tue Aug 3 16:41:18 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Helping a friend Message-ID: <20040803213952.73740.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, I've a friend who's a great Perl hacker and looking for a job (but prefers to remain anonymous in case his current employer is on this list.) If you know of any positions available, please let me know. I highly recommend this person. Cheers, Ovid ===== Silence is Evil http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/philosophy/indexdecency.htm Ovid http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=17000 Web Programming with Perl http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From cdawson at webiphany.com Wed Aug 4 11:11:43 2004 From: cdawson at webiphany.com (Chris Dawson) Date: Wed Aug 4 11:20:58 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] cron or sudo editor interface? Message-ID: <41110ABF.2080607@webiphany.com> Does anyone know of a good way to manipulate crontab files or sudo files? Usually I use visudo or crontab -e to edit these files, but I would like to manipulate them programmatically. I can simply copy the files over to the correct place, but I wish there were a simple interface to do this so that I could add lines without worrying I am overwriting something else that has been added. Nothing stands out on CPAN. Does anyone have ways they edit/manipulate these files? OSCON was fun, eh! thx, Chris From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Aug 4 11:41:23 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Wed Aug 4 11:42:26 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] cron or sudo editor interface? In-Reply-To: <41110ABF.2080607@webiphany.com> References: <41110ABF.2080607@webiphany.com> Message-ID: <86llgug8jw.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Dawson writes: Chris> Does anyone know of a good way to manipulate crontab files or sudo Chris> files? Usually I use visudo or crontab -e to edit these files, but I Chris> would like to manipulate them programmatically. I can simply copy the Chris> files over to the correct place, but I wish there were a simple Chris> interface to do this so that I could add lines without worrying I am Chris> overwriting something else that has been added. Nothing stands out Chris> on CPAN. Does anyone have ways they edit/manipulate these files? "crontab -e" uses the EDITOR environment variable, calling it with a temp file name as its first and only parameter, and incorporating that as the new crontab if the file is updated. Hence, you can have two scripts. Script A: #!/usr/bin/perl $ENV{EDITOR} = "scriptB"; system "crontab", "-e"; Script B: #!/usr/bin/perl $^I = "~"; # trigger in-place edit while (<>) { print; # copy old lines to new lines # make your changes here, for example to add at eof: print ".. .. .. .. new line here .. ..\n" if eof; } And that should work just fine. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From cdawson at webiphany.com Wed Aug 4 13:50:37 2004 From: cdawson at webiphany.com (Chris Dawson) Date: Wed Aug 4 15:45:35 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN.pm and prerequisite_policy Message-ID: <41112FFD.5030703@webiphany.com> I have been searching in vain on google for the answer, but I cannot figure out programmatically how to modify the Config hash in CPAN.pm. Is this not correct? use CPAN; $CPAN::Config->{ 'prerequisites_policy' } = 'follow'; install( "XML::LibXML" ); I want to temporarily ask CPAN to follow all dependencies. Thanks, Chris From mikeraz at patch.com Wed Aug 4 16:01:19 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Wed Aug 4 16:01:31 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN.pm and prerequisite_policy In-Reply-To: <41112FFD.5030703@webiphany.com> References: <41112FFD.5030703@webiphany.com> Message-ID: <20040804210119.GC7965@patch.com> On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 11:50:37AM -0700, Chris Dawson wrote: > use CPAN; > $CPAN::Config->{ 'prerequisites_policy' } = 'follow'; > install( "XML::LibXML" ); > > I want to temporarily ask CPAN to follow all dependencies. May not be what you're looking for, but from interactive CPAN cpan> o conf prerequisites_policy follow Good for that session only, unless you follow up with a commit -- Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://meme.patch.com/memes/BicycleRiding Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: The most important thing in a relationship between a man and a woman is that one of them be good at taking orders. -- Linda Festa From raanders at acm.org Wed Aug 4 16:17:52 2004 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Wed Aug 4 16:17:55 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Win32::IPHelper module Message-ID: I thought I had the mini-project figured out when I discovered this module. We'd like to add multiple IP addresses to an interface on a Win2000 Server (servers) from the command line. For those that have been able to avoid doing too much with MS Windows; when you need to add a block of IP addresses it has to be done one at a time through a GUI (Windows ... go figure eh?). So when I found the IPHelper module and it claimed to do what I needed I started building and testing a command line tool to add addresses. Big surprise; the AddIPAddress method only adds the address(es) temporarily which is in the docs but I missed the first few times in my haste to get this done. The Microsoft knowledge base doesn't mention this so I'm not sure if author (Luigino Masarati) made this decision or this is just the way the API works. I'll try looking in the module code but in the mean time I wanted to ask if anyone has already solved this need to add multiple IP addresses from the command line. Since Perl is the King of Tools it seems this is the place to ask. (Well the London PM may come next depending on the results I get.) TIA, Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" From tcaine at eli.net Wed Aug 4 16:55:59 2004 From: tcaine at eli.net (Todd Caine) Date: Wed Aug 4 16:56:06 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] CPAN.pm and prerequisite_policy In-Reply-To: <41112FFD.5030703@webiphany.com> References: <41112FFD.5030703@webiphany.com> Message-ID: <20040804215559.GC16355@eli.net> I haven't tested this but try loading the config with CPAN::Config->load() before changing a default value. use CPAN; CPAN::Config->load; $CPAN::Config->{ 'prerequisites_policy' } = 'follow'; install( "XML::LibXML" ); Cheers, Todd On (Wed, Aug 04 11:50), Chris Dawson wrote: > I have been searching in vain on google for the answer, but I cannot > figure out programmatically how to modify the Config hash in CPAN.pm. > Is this not correct? > > use CPAN; > $CPAN::Config->{ 'prerequisites_policy' } = 'follow'; > install( "XML::LibXML" ); > > I want to temporarily ask CPAN to follow all dependencies. > > Thanks, > Chris > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Wed Aug 4 17:45:19 2004 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Wed Aug 4 17:45:22 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] An interesting idea this way comes Message-ID: <50141.130.94.162.208.1091659519.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> The Seattle Perl Users Group has been batting about this idea proposed by one of their members. Here is the email. What do people think about this sort of think? We have a lot of Perl People in Portland... From: Jonathan Gardner jgardner at jonathangardner.net Date: Tue Aug 3 12:44:58 CDT 2004 Many of use are perl consultants. We spend a great deal of time finding clients and we just don't have the resources to prepare spiels or case studies or advertising in the proper media. So we end up mostly as parasites because we can't generate new projects and clients and we only clean up where others have gone before. (I am speaking generally, of course.) We see this because the current perl market is contracting, not expanding. I have a proposal that many of you won't like and frankly, I don't think it will work in its current working form. I'd like some input and ideas positive or negative. If we could get it working, I think it will be a huge benefit to all of us. Some of the ideas I don't endorse, I am only putting them on the floor for discussion because they have some merit. Basically, we form a corporation called the Seattle Perl Consortium (SPC). We have members who are perl consultants. They pay membership fees. We buy advertising and we have a team of marketers and salespeople to convince the PHBs that perl is the way to go with glossy handouts and snazzy powerpoint presentations. The SPC acts like the marketing department for our small consultancies. With enough members and a big enough budget, we should be able to challenge anything Microsoft or Sun would do to market their stuff. SPC could provide legal assistance, accounting assistance, business advice, and misc. services. The idea is to move everything but perl work off of the consultants into the SPC where people who specialize in that sort of thing can do it properly and for far less than you would do it yourselves. (Going rate for an accountant << going rate for experienced perl consultant). SPC could provide on-call 24/7 service with a call center and on-call consultants. SPC may be able to fund its own projects. For instance, if there is a need for a specific piece of software, but no company is willing to fund it, but it would be useful to all of the members of SPC, SPC may hire some of the consultants to implement the project. To smooth the market cycles, SPC may collect a hoard of cash that it will use to employ the consultants during difficult times. Rather than compete with the clients, SPC would wait to do its projects until the slow cycles. SPC may also be a standards body, codifying best practices and technology to make the work its members do consistent and unified. SPC could provide services you'd find in a guild or a union. We could set prices, establish accreditation, and help apprentices pair off with gurus. SPC will be basically non-profit. All the profit from the actual work goes into the pockets of the consultants, with perhaps a small cut to go back to the SPC to fund more of its activities. In the future, if this is successful, we can expand this into the Seattle Open Source / Free Software Consortium, or maybe even a world-wide organization with chapters in every major city. -- Jonathan Gardner jgardner at jonathangardner.net From darthsmily at verizon.net Wed Aug 4 18:44:19 2004 From: darthsmily at verizon.net (darthsmily) Date: Wed Aug 4 18:26:16 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] An interesting idea this way comes In-Reply-To: <50141.130.94.162.208.1091659519.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> References: <50141.130.94.162.208.1091659519.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <411174D3.2070605@verizon.net> Make it so. heh. Sounds interesting, of course the questions are 1) How much overhead do you need for marketing, advertising, basic overhead? 2) How much is membership? 3) How will the organization determine pay rates? 4) What would be the impact if someone decides to go full time with a company? What will be needed for this to be a success is people who can deal with the initial start-up process, and in all likely hood not get paid until contracts start rolling in. If the organization provided a means for insurance at a reasonable rate, that would be a big plus. DarthSmily Josh Heumann wrote: >The Seattle Perl Users Group has been batting about this idea proposed by >one of their members. Here is the email. What do people think about this >sort of think? We have a lot of Perl People in Portland... > > > >From: Jonathan Gardner jgardner at jonathangardner.net >Date: Tue Aug 3 12:44:58 CDT 2004 > >Many of use are perl consultants. We spend a great deal of time finding >clients and we just don't have the resources to prepare spiels or case >studies or advertising in the proper media. So we end up mostly as >parasites because we can't generate new projects and clients and we only >clean up where others have gone before. (I am speaking generally, of >course.) We see this because the current perl market is contracting, not >expanding. > >I have a proposal that many of you won't like and frankly, I don't think it >will work in its current working form. I'd like some input and ideas >positive or negative. If we could get it working, I think it will be a huge >benefit to all of us. > >Some of the ideas I don't endorse, I am only putting them on the floor for >discussion because they have some merit. > >Basically, we form a corporation called the Seattle Perl Consortium (SPC). >We have members who are perl consultants. They pay membership fees. We buy >advertising and we have a team of marketers and salespeople to convince the >PHBs that perl is the way to go with glossy handouts and snazzy powerpoint >presentations. The SPC acts like the marketing department for our small >consultancies. With enough members and a big enough budget, we should be >able to challenge anything Microsoft or Sun would do to market their stuff. > >SPC could provide legal assistance, accounting assistance, business advice, >and misc. services. The idea is to move everything but perl work off of the >consultants into the SPC where people who specialize in that sort of thing >can do it properly and for far less than you would do it yourselves. (Going >rate for an accountant << going rate for experienced perl consultant). > >SPC could provide on-call 24/7 service with a call center and on-call >consultants. > >SPC may be able to fund its own projects. For instance, if there is a need >for a specific piece of software, but no company is willing to fund it, but >it would be useful to all of the members of SPC, SPC may hire some of the >consultants to implement the project. > >To smooth the market cycles, SPC may collect a hoard of cash that it will >use to employ the consultants during difficult times. Rather than compete >with the clients, SPC would wait to do its projects until the slow cycles. > >SPC may also be a standards body, codifying best practices and technology to >make the work its members do consistent and unified. > >SPC could provide services you'd find in a guild or a union. We could set >prices, establish accreditation, and help apprentices pair off with gurus. > >SPC will be basically non-profit. All the profit from the actual work goes >into the pockets of the consultants, with perhaps a small cut to go back to >the SPC to fund more of its activities. > >In the future, if this is successful, we can expand this into the Seattle >Open Source / Free Software Consortium, or maybe even a world-wide >organization with chapters in every major city. > > > From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Aug 4 18:46:35 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Wed Aug 4 18:46:58 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] An interesting idea this way comes In-Reply-To: <50141.130.94.162.208.1091659519.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> References: <50141.130.94.162.208.1091659519.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <86657ybh5w.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Josh" == Josh Heumann writes: Josh> The Seattle Perl Users Group has been batting about this idea proposed by Josh> one of their members. Here is the email. What do people think about this Josh> sort of think? We have a lot of Perl People in Portland... This is exactly what Stonehenge is setting up to do (and has been doing, to a lesser extent). And yes, I need a bit of profit to cover my overhead, but I wanna make a tiny profit on a lot of people, if a lot of people are interested. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Wed Aug 4 18:51:25 2004 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Wed Aug 4 18:51:28 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] An interesting idea this way comes In-Reply-To: <86657ybh5w.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <50141.130.94.162.208.1091659519.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> <86657ybh5w.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <50162.130.94.162.208.1091663485.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> > This is exactly what Stonehenge is setting up to do (and has been > doing, to a lesser extent). And yes, I need a bit of profit to cover my > overhead, but I wanna make a tiny profit on a lot of people, if a lot of > people are interested. What Stonehenge is doing is similar, but the idea that is the most interesting is just an organization that exists solely to promote the use of Perl in business applications. That's a cause I would get in line with. Josh From almeria at earthlink.net Wed Aug 4 20:35:44 2004 From: almeria at earthlink.net (Raphael Almeria) Date: Wed Aug 4 20:35:29 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] An interesting idea this way comes In-Reply-To: <50141.130.94.162.208.1091659519.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> References: <50141.130.94.162.208.1091659519.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> Message-ID: Yeah, this sounds like a cool idea. --R On Aug 4, 2004, at 3:45 PM, Josh Heumann wrote: > The Seattle Perl Users Group has been batting about this idea proposed > by > one of their members. Here is the email. What do people think about > this > sort of think? We have a lot of Perl People in Portland... > > > > From: Jonathan Gardner jgardner at jonathangardner.net > Date: Tue Aug 3 12:44:58 CDT 2004 > > Many of use are perl consultants. We spend a great deal of time finding > clients and we just don't have the resources to prepare spiels or case > studies or advertising in the proper media. So we end up mostly as > parasites because we can't generate new projects and clients and we > only > clean up where others have gone before. (I am speaking generally, of > course.) We see this because the current perl market is contracting, > not > expanding. > > I have a proposal that many of you won't like and frankly, I don't > think it > will work in its current working form. I'd like some input and ideas > positive or negative. If we could get it working, I think it will be a > huge > benefit to all of us. > > Some of the ideas I don't endorse, I am only putting them on the floor > for > discussion because they have some merit. > > Basically, we form a corporation called the Seattle Perl Consortium > (SPC). > We have members who are perl consultants. They pay membership fees. We > buy > advertising and we have a team of marketers and salespeople to > convince the > PHBs that perl is the way to go with glossy handouts and snazzy > powerpoint > presentations. The SPC acts like the marketing department for our small > consultancies. With enough members and a big enough budget, we should > be > able to challenge anything Microsoft or Sun would do to market their > stuff. > > SPC could provide legal assistance, accounting assistance, business > advice, > and misc. services. The idea is to move everything but perl work off > of the > consultants into the SPC where people who specialize in that sort of > thing > can do it properly and for far less than you would do it yourselves. > (Going > rate for an accountant << going rate for experienced perl consultant). > > SPC could provide on-call 24/7 service with a call center and on-call > consultants. > > SPC may be able to fund its own projects. For instance, if there is a > need > for a specific piece of software, but no company is willing to fund > it, but > it would be useful to all of the members of SPC, SPC may hire some of > the > consultants to implement the project. > > To smooth the market cycles, SPC may collect a hoard of cash that it > will > use to employ the consultants during difficult times. Rather than > compete > with the clients, SPC would wait to do its projects until the slow > cycles. > > SPC may also be a standards body, codifying best practices and > technology to > make the work its members do consistent and unified. > > SPC could provide services you'd find in a guild or a union. We could > set > prices, establish accreditation, and help apprentices pair off with > gurus. > > SPC will be basically non-profit. All the profit from the actual work > goes > into the pockets of the consultants, with perhaps a small cut to go > back to > the SPC to fund more of its activities. > > In the future, if this is successful, we can expand this into the > Seattle > Open Source / Free Software Consortium, or maybe even a world-wide > organization with chapters in every major city. > > -- > Jonathan Gardner > jgardner at jonathangardner.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Thu Aug 5 17:28:37 2004 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Thu Aug 5 17:28:40 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] [Fwd: [pm_groups] Perl MicroWorkshop in Budapest] Message-ID: <33730.130.94.161.146.1091744917.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> News from the Global (Brother|Sister)hood of perl. Anyone going to be in Europe later this month? News on the August meeting forthcoming. It's next Wednesday, the 11th. Josh -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [pm_groups] Perl MicroWorkshop in Budapest From: Gabor Szabo Date: Thu, August 5, 2004 3:48 am To: pm_groups@pm.org Hi ppl, I'd appreciate if you sent this over to near-by Perl Mailing lists. The Hungarian Perl Mongers are going to have their 2nd Hungarian Perl MicroWorkshop 28th August in Budapest We would like to invite you to join our meeting and even give a presentation. We are looking for a number of speakers to give short presentations either in English or Hungarian about, well, Perl. For further details you can visit http://www.perl.org.hu/ (in Hungarian) or http://www.perl.org.hu/english/ (in English). Please send your proposal or RSVP to Gabor Szabo regards Gabor -- Gabor Szabo http://www.perl.org.hu/ -- Request pm.org Technical Support via support@pm.org pm_groups mailing list pm_groups@mail.pm.org http://www.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Fri Aug 6 11:55:54 2004 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Fri Aug 6 11:55:57 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] August Meeting Message-ID: <50192.130.94.162.208.1091811354.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> August 11, 2004 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave Discovering Bricolage, by David Wheeler Content management is a huge issue for organizations of all sizes, addressed by products ranging from simple in-house solutions to multi-million dollar commercial applications. Bricolage, an enterprise-class open source content management system powered by Apache/mod_perl and PostgreSQL, aims to bridge the gap between these extremes by offering an intuitive interface with powerful capabilities. As a result, Bricolage has gained wide adoption from organizations as diverse as Entertainment Tonight Online, The RAND Corporation, and the World Health Organization. Its power and ease of use led to its being named "Most Impressive" of 2002 by eWeek. Join Bricolage lead developer and maintainer David Wheeler for a practical introduction to Bricolage. As an open source product with commercial-class features such as document type definition, granular access control, flexible templating, and platform-independent content distribution, Bricolage enables a deep and comprehensive organizational content management workflow. Following a brief review of its history, we'll focus on the essentials needed to start using Bricolage. The topics covered include: * Analysis and logical modeling of document types in an organization * Mason template development * Document editing * Replicating and managing organizational workflow * Publishing and distribution From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Fri Aug 6 12:00:56 2004 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Fri Aug 6 12:01:05 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] SPC Message-ID: <50245.130.94.162.208.1091811656.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> It sounds like the Seattle Perl Consortium is moving along. The discussion about it and meeting notes, etc, are on a kwiki now: http://spc.kwiki.org Josh From will at williamschmidt.com Fri Aug 6 15:16:01 2004 From: will at williamschmidt.com (T. William Schmidt) Date: Fri Aug 6 15:20:42 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] An interesting idea this way comes Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040806121152.029a80f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> > >>>>> "Josh" == Josh Heumann writes: > >Josh> The Seattle Perl Users Group has been batting about this idea >proposed by >Josh> one of their members. Here is the email. What do people think >about this >Josh> sort of think? We have a lot of Perl People in Portland... > >This is exactly what Stonehenge is setting up to do (and has been >doing, to a lesser extent). And yes, I need a bit of profit to cover >my overhead, but I wanna make a tiny profit on a lot of people, if a >lot of people are interested. > >-- >Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > >Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. >See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! I have been a professional consultant for 20+ years in Utah, California and Oregon, working mostly for small to medium size consulting firms, such as my latest in PDX, Kipe & Associates. In Q1-2003 I decided for the first time to hang out my own shingle and have yet to land a new client. All of my work since becoming an independent has been from former clients. I was Kipe employee #2 in 1991 when Bob Kipe left Cap Gemini and formed his own company. In the 12 years I worked for Bob I had three clients, 2 in PDX and one in Spokane, and not one day, not one hour of bench time. Bob died in 2001 and K&A has not been the same since. I have never had a similar experience with any of the many consulting companies I worked for prior to K&A. In fact, I have never had more than a single client engagement with any of those companies. They were all one-time engagements and when the project ended, so did my relationship with the company. I shop the Internet every day for new work and what I see is more of the same. I am convinced that if and when I land a new assignment it will be another one-time engagement. Once the project ends I will probably never hear from the company again. Why do you suppose that is? I believe the model for consultants is one in which the head hunters simply match up skill sets with job orders. I believe the consultant is viewed as nothing more than a piece of living furniture, to be replaced with a newer version when a current engagement ends. They might make a half hearted attempt to match the skills of someone coming off a project with existing open job orders but if there is not a good match, the consultant goes on the bench while the recruiter searches among strangers for a match. What was different about Bob Kipe? Well in the early days, when he was hungry, he was a very proactive marketer. He sought out talent first and then found a way to place that talent in companies where he knew development work was being undertaken. He was not overly concerned that the talent did not match 100% some set of skills in a job order. His approach was to market very smart people who had done very difficult things and could learn the latest new new-thing. Three times in 12 years he got himself and me into companies for a face to face interview with a technical decision maker and three times I convinced that hiring manager to take a chance on me. Together we once beat out Oracle Consulting on one project and Microsoft Consulting on another. I had uninterrupted work for a dozen years but it got harder as Bob became more successful and less hungry. With big time, for PDX, financial success he became less willing to make cold calls on new clients. Why should he continue to bust his hump, since a select set of clients was bringing in all the money he desired? His model changed subtly over time to the more typical quick and dirty job match and consultant discard, although to his credit, he was still willing to call a prospect where the talent first developed an interest. After he got sick and then weaker from chemo it became impossible. He also had a very lean and mean financial model. Since he was a one-man-band his overhead was very low. He could undercut the competition and still offer the talent better rates than they could get from any other firm in town. He thus obtained loyalty from both the top and the bottom - the clients who enjoyed most favorable billing rates and from the consultants who put more money in their pockets. From the consultants point of view, I think we are all looking for the Bob Kipe's of the IT world, but when they are in their hungry stage. I want someone to market ME to prospects, not see me as a possible match to some arbitrary set of skills. Do you ever wonder about the dilberts who write these skill sets? For example, do you ever wonder what in the world they are trying to build when they require both Java and C/C++ proficiency in the same person? Java was created for minds that could not warp themselves around C++, so if someone can hold his own professionally in C++, what possible interest in Java would such a person have? Yet to get an audience one must be able to show current proficiency in both of these OO languages. If I could get in the door for an interview I could discuss the roles of these two languages, and why Perl is actually superior for many uses but I never get the chance since the head hunter rejects any but 100% skill set matches. So, it does make some sense for consultants to consider how they might organize their collective resources to hire a marketer with the right stuff to work for them. That is not the usual model, the marketers work for the client companies who own the job orders. It is quite another model to represent the talent and try to find suitable companies in which to place the talent. The really big firms, such as IBM Global Services are better equipped to absorb the cost of some bench time and to pay for training, but even they churn the talent at a moments notice. I once tried to hire someone to market just me but there just was not enough money in it for both of us. The Seattle proposal is both interesting and very ambitious. Ambitious because it focuses on Perl so in addition to the usual problem of marketing talent, it intends to evangelize Perl. I wish them well and will stay tuned, and perhaps the marketing right-stuff includes in depth knowledge of why Perl is better. In a perfect world it would either not be necessary or if it is, it would work. I am still hoping to find another Bob Kipe. Regards, Will Schmidt WilliamSchmidt.com, LLC 11201 NW 77th Street Terrebonne, OR 97760 541 504-0290 will@williamschmidt.com http://www.williamschmidt.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20040806/64f321e8/attachment.htm From tex at off.org Fri Aug 6 16:24:35 2004 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Fri Aug 6 16:24:41 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] An interesting idea this way comes In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040806121152.029a80f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040806121152.029a80f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> Message-ID: <20040806212435.GU12565@gblx.net> On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 01:16:01PM -0700, T. William Schmidt wrote: > From the consultants point of view, I think we are all looking for the Bob > Kipe's of the IT world, but when they are in their hungry stage. I want > someone to market ME to prospects, not see me as a possible match to some > arbitrary set of skills. Do you ever wonder about the dilberts who write > these skill sets? For example, do you ever wonder what in the world they > are trying to build when they require both Java and C/C++ proficiency in > the same person? Java was created for minds that could not warp themselves > around C++, so if someone can hold his own professionally in C++, what > possible interest in Java would such a person have? Is that what the goal was? I've always figured it was created for minds that didn't think C++ was slow or buggy enough. > Yet to get an audience > one must be able to show current proficiency in both of these OO > languages. If I could get in the door for an interview I could discuss the > roles of these two languages, and why Perl is actually superior for many > uses but I never get the chance since the head hunter rejects any but 100% > skill set matches. > > > I once tried to hire someone to market just me but there just was not > enough money in it for both of us. The Seattle proposal is both > interesting and very ambitious. Ambitious because it focuses on Perl so in > addition to the usual problem of marketing talent, it intends to evangelize > Perl. I wish them well and will stay tuned, and perhaps the marketing > right-stuff includes in depth knowledge of why Perl is better. In a > perfect world it would either not be necessary or if it is, it would > work. I am still hoping to find another Bob Kipe. > Along the same logic of your comments above, I'm a little leery of a perl advocacy group. Yeah, I think perl is swell, but just like the constraints above you really want the job to get done right, and maybe perl isn't the right tool for the particular job, so you want someone who isn't married to that particular set of skills. Maybe it would be more successful if there was a solution set of common problems we can address with perl? On the other hand, I wouldn't really know, not having worked as a consultant. It sounds inviting though. Austin From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Tue Aug 10 12:55:28 2004 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Tue Aug 10 12:55:30 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] August Meeting tomorrow night Message-ID: <50084.130.94.162.208.1092160528.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> August 11, 2004 6:30pm at Free Geek, 1741 SE 10th Ave Discovering Bricolage, by David Wheeler ALSO: Last call for t-shirts! I have a box of stylish shirts, designed by Randall Hansen. If you asked for one and haven't gotten it (you know who you are), this will be the time. The shirts are $10 each, $12 for the XXLs. NOTE: if I have any left over shirts after the meeting tomorrow night, I'll be selling them to whoever wants one. Email me off-list if you somehow won't be at David's terrific talk tommorow, and I'll set yours aside. And if you got your shirt but didn't pay for it, this would be an excellent opportunity to do so. You know who you are. Josh From gordon at rescuebreather.com Tue Aug 10 15:42:41 2004 From: gordon at rescuebreather.com (Gordon Jackson) Date: Tue Aug 10 15:42:35 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Files between servers Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040810132705.02f4fef8@4yoursafety.com> Hi All I have been running a free directory for a few years now and I am setting it up so that users will now have to pay each year. I have the cart all set and the exit page to my secure server setup and all is fine when they setup the account. However I also want to save this information in my normal server cgi-bin so I can build them a template site based on their input. So I guess my question is how do I access my normal server from the programs on my secure server? Any questions or problems please feel free to email or call me. THX -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Jackson Webmaster Rescuebreather.com http://www.rescuebreather.com mailto:gordon@rescuebreather.com OR CALL TOLL FREE 1-800-733-9007 for more information HAVE A GREAT DAY! --------------------------------------------------------------------- From rootbeer at redcat.com Thu Aug 12 08:55:55 2004 From: rootbeer at redcat.com (Tom Phoenix) Date: Thu Aug 12 08:56:05 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Files between servers In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040810132705.02f4fef8@4yoursafety.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040810132705.02f4fef8@4yoursafety.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Aug 2004, Gordon Jackson wrote: > So I guess my question is how do I access my normal server from the > programs on my secure server? I'd probably have a database to hold the information about user accounts and related stuff. Both servers' software can concurrently access the database, of course. The normal server simply asks the database whether the appropriate account is currently valid for whatever service they're asking for. To save the DB from having to answer the same question again on every image load, cache its responses for a few minutes. Good luck with it! --Tom Phoenix From kellert at ohsu.edu Thu Aug 12 17:07:35 2004 From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas J Keller) Date: Thu Aug 12 17:08:07 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] O'Reilly's Safari thingy Message-ID: <04270622-ECAC-11D8-90DB-0003930405E2@ohsu.edu> Anyone using the Safari e-bookshelf program by O'Reilly? Comments on it? Thanks, Tom K. From randall at sonofhans.net Thu Aug 12 17:20:28 2004 From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen) Date: Thu Aug 12 17:20:41 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] O'Reilly's Safari thingy In-Reply-To: <04270622-ECAC-11D8-90DB-0003930405E2@ohsu.edu> References: <04270622-ECAC-11D8-90DB-0003930405E2@ohsu.edu> Message-ID: On Aug 12, 2004, at 3:07 PM, Thomas J Keller wrote: > Anyone using the Safari e-bookshelf program by O'Reilly? > > Comments on it? i used it a couple years ago. it was pretty good. the pages are very short -- each chapter divided into many chunks. some of the "anti-ripping" stuff they did was a little annoying: hit "reload" at the wrong time and it'll kick you off. the weakness is that it's all online. if you need docs on an airplane you're screwed. i'm sure it's possible to rip entire books, but pretty slow and cumbersome. overall i liked it. r From nforrett at wgz.com Thu Aug 12 17:47:04 2004 From: nforrett at wgz.com (Nick) Date: Thu Aug 12 17:47:11 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] O'Reilly's Safari thingy In-Reply-To: <04270622-ECAC-11D8-90DB-0003930405E2@ohsu.edu>; from kellert@ohsu.edu on Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 03:07:35PM -0700 References: <04270622-ECAC-11D8-90DB-0003930405E2@ohsu.edu> Message-ID: <20040812154704.J2255@wgz.com> On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 03:07:35PM -0700, Thomas J Keller wrote: > Anyone using the Safari e-bookshelf program by O'Reilly? When it works, it's been great. Especially if you're the sort who either likes to dabble, or you often find yourself in a situation where there is a tech book that would really help with some temporary situation, but laying out $50+ on the physical book is a little over-kill. However, I've been having some problems with their site. I submitted a support request via email last Saturday, and *still* haven't heard anything except for the auto-response with my ticket number. Nick From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Fri Aug 13 12:33:11 2004 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Fri Aug 13 12:33:14 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Between MySQL and PostgreSQL I prefer... Message-ID: <50201.130.94.162.208.1092418391.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> Thanks to David Wheeler for his uber-cool Bricolage presentation on Wednesday. For those of you who missed it, the slides are online, and there's a link from the kwiki: http://pdx.pm.org/kwiki/index.cgi?August2004Meeting In other news, a new poll has been added to the main page of the pdx.pm site (http://pdx.pm.org/). "Between MySQL and PostgreSQL I prefer..." is an attempt to see what we're using in the local perl community. I know there are other db systems out there, but this is simply a PostgreSQL/MySQL debate. As with all internet polls, this is strictly unscientific, but attempt to only vote once. And remember, this is for posterity, so... be honest. Josh From merlyn at stonehenge.com Fri Aug 13 12:44:46 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Fri Aug 13 12:44:50 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Between MySQL and PostgreSQL I prefer... In-Reply-To: <50201.130.94.162.208.1092418391.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> References: <50201.130.94.162.208.1092418391.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> Message-ID: <863c2r53w1.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Josh" == Josh Heumann writes: Josh> "Between MySQL and PostgreSQL I prefer..." is an attempt to see Josh> what we're using in the local perl community. I know there are Josh> other db systems out there, but this is simply a Josh> PostgreSQL/MySQL debate. As with all internet polls, this is Josh> strictly unscientific, but attempt to only vote once. Without so much as trying to pretend I'm not lobbying, be sure you read and the referenced links (especially ) before voting. :-) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From curtis_ovid_poe at yahoo.com Fri Aug 13 12:49:16 2004 From: curtis_ovid_poe at yahoo.com (Ovid) Date: Fri Aug 13 12:50:03 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presentation idea Message-ID: <20040813174916.27891.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com> And in other news: chromatic has given presentations about testing. Schwern has ranted about testing. Many, however, are still not testing. What do people think about a presentation where we sit down and actually write a real, live module, from scratch, using test-driven development? You can see first-hand how it works and maybe move from the theoretical (I should really do that) to the practical (I am doing that!) Does this interest anyone? Cheers, Ovid ===== Silence is Evil http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/philosophy/indexdecency.htm Ovid http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=17000 Web Programming with Perl http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From jgardner at jonathangardner.net Fri Aug 6 15:54:35 2004 From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner) Date: Fri Aug 13 12:51:20 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] An interesting idea this way comes In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040806121152.029a80f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040806121152.029a80f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> Message-ID: <200408061354.35473.jgardner@jonathangardner.net> On Friday 06 August 2004 01:16 pm, T. William Schmidt wrote: > > >>>>> "Josh" == Josh Heumann writes: > > > >Josh> The Seattle Perl Users Group has been batting about this idea > >proposed by > >Josh> one of their members. Here is the email. What do people think > >about this > >Josh> sort of think? We have a lot of Perl People in Portland... > > > >This is exactly what Stonehenge is setting up to do (and has been > >doing, to a lesser extent). And yes, I need a bit of profit to cover > >my overhead, but I wanna make a tiny profit on a lot of people, if a > >lot of people are interested. > > > From the consultants point of view, I think we are all looking for the > Bob Kipe's of the IT world, but when they are in their hungry stage. I > want someone to market ME to prospects, not see me as a possible match to > some arbitrary set of skills. > So, it does make some sense for consultants to consider how they might > organize their collective resources to hire a marketer with the right > stuff to work for them. > I once tried to hire someone to market just me but there just was not > enough money in it for both of us. The Seattle proposal is both > interesting and very ambitious. Ambitious because it focuses on Perl so > in addition to the usual problem of marketing talent, it intends to > evangelize Perl. I wish them well and will stay tuned, and perhaps the > marketing right-stuff includes in depth knowledge of why Perl is better. > In a perfect world it would either not be necessary or if it is, it would > work. I am still hoping to find another Bob Kipe. > First off, to comment about Stonehenge, my impression was that it was just another company. I had a prejudice that they would shrinkwrap software and if I got hired there I would just be another engineer slaving away in the corner. The reality may be very different. Especially hearing what Randall said above, I may look more at the Stonehenge. Second, I heard the echo of people's thoughts in the PostgreSQL community. "Why won't people use PostgreSQL on their core applications? We have everything they need - we are even better than the competitors! What keeps us out?" "Well, they are looking for three things: Effective advertising, Great software, and great support. We can only supply the software." "What if all of us consultants got together and organized so that we can advertise for and support these huge contracts together?" Silence as a hundred minds ponder. The same thought was buzzing through the Perl community. "Why is Java and .Net kicking our butts?" "Well, people are looking for three things: ..." The idea has two points that really hit home. The "Got milk?" part is advertising Open Source software to the right audience. "Got milk?" goes to the kids on TV. Our advertising will hit Forbes magazine and say, "Have you saved a hundred million dollars like the Jones' did by using OS software?" We will also fund studies and reports and conferences and show up on CNN and say, "Why yes Bob, when we first heard about XYZ and the way they had used Open Source, we were surprised our selves. They are saving nearly a billion dollars over the next ten years in licensing costs alone." The second point is banding together common interests without enslaving them into a corporate work environment. You are a consultant. In my heart, I am a consultant. I want to be free to do what I like, to make as much money as the client is willing to pay, and to work on whatever fancies me. The consultant consortium could provide the resources needed to land huge contracts and provide the resources we need to execute them efficiently. Things like accountants, salespeople, account managers, help desks, 24/7 support call centers and staff, legal departments, etc... All these are things we want someone else to do because we stink at it. Now what to do about it? I am having a meeting tentatively on Thursday at my home to discuss what to do to organize the "Got milk?" part. I would encourage the pdx-pm people to send a representative or two up. I am personally interested about Stonehenge. The business side will come after we get the advocacy part running and generating interest. We can talk more about details on that later. -- Jonathan Gardner jgardner@jonathangardner.net From brendan.leber at gmail.com Fri Aug 13 13:04:40 2004 From: brendan.leber at gmail.com (Brendan Leber) Date: Fri Aug 13 13:04:43 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presentation idea In-Reply-To: <20040813174916.27891.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040813174916.27891.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <34d340f104081311042a7c6380@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:49:16 -0700 (PDT), Ovid wrote: > Does this interest anyone? Yes! -- We can contend with the evil that men do in the name of evil, but heaven protect us from what they do in the name of good. -- Herodius From perl-pm at joshheumann.com Fri Aug 13 13:08:03 2004 From: perl-pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann) Date: Fri Aug 13 13:08:07 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] win32 programming Message-ID: <50185.130.94.162.208.1092420483.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> I have a client who has a proprietary db system that runs on a windows box. It has a data dumping feature (to csv), but the feature is only available through a gui and with a password. I would like to be able to write some kind of script to run periodically (maybe on a cron job or the windows equivalent) on this machine and dump the data programatically. I have never done perl on a windows box before. Does anyone know of some sort of windows gui-scripting module on cpan? Josh From tex at off.org Fri Aug 13 13:16:24 2004 From: tex at off.org (Austin Schutz) Date: Fri Aug 13 13:16:28 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Between MySQL and PostgreSQL I prefer... In-Reply-To: <863c2r53w1.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <50201.130.94.162.208.1092418391.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> <863c2r53w1.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <20040813181624.GB24425@gblx.net> On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 10:44:46AM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > >>>>> "Josh" == Josh Heumann writes: > > Josh> "Between MySQL and PostgreSQL I prefer..." is an attempt to see > Josh> what we're using in the local perl community. I know there are > Josh> other db systems out there, but this is simply a > Josh> PostgreSQL/MySQL debate. As with all internet polls, this is > Josh> strictly unscientific, but attempt to only vote once. > > Without so much as trying to pretend I'm not lobbying, be sure you > read and the referenced links > (especially ) before voting. > We use mysql here to warehouse network stats, somewhat like mrtg. Mysql is maybe two orders of magnitude faster than our oracle database when it comes to dumping data to it, and data retrieval is also blazingly fast, where we have maybe 30 concurrent connections. So you do get something in return for mysql's shortcomings. If I had a project where data integrity were critical in a transactional db, however, I would definitely use something a little more bulletproof, and postgres is a good choice for people who don't want to fork over whatever is in their bank account to Oracle. I've used postgres before on a couple projects and it works pretty well, though it tends to be a little more bitchy about syntax and datatype conversion than mysql. Some of the folks here also like db2. It is also bulletproof and IBM apparently makes it accessibly cheap for those w/ IBM hardware. Basically I prefer whatever I can talk someone else into maintaining. Thank heavens for DBAs. :-) Austin From ptkwt at aracnet.com Fri Aug 13 13:37:17 2004 From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) Date: Fri Aug 13 13:37:24 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] An interesting idea this way comes In-Reply-To: <200408061354.35473.jgardner@jonathangardner.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Aug 2004, Jonathan Gardner wrote: > On Friday 06 August 2004 01:16 pm, T. William Schmidt wrote: > > The same thought was buzzing through the Perl community. "Why is Java > and .Net kicking our butts?" "Well, people are looking for three > things: ..." > It's all a matter of perspective. In recent years I've gotten to the point where I prefer programming in Ruby (before that I really preferred Perl, which is why I'm lurking here, I suppose :), but you don't see a lot of ads for Ruby programmers out there. You do (often) see Perl as a requirement. And occasionally you see Python listed (but not as often as Perl). I did advertise for a Ruby programmer a few months back to take over for me on a contract but I suspect that was probably the only Ruby job (where Ruby was a primary requirement for the job) that was advertised in the Portland metro area this year. BTW: I found an eager/well-qualified Ruby programmer within a day of posting to the local Ruby mailing list (thus debunking management's worry that we wouldn't be able to find good Ruby programmers). Now, of course I'd like to see Ruby be more frequently used in commercial settings just as you would like to see Perl be more frequently used. We could always take the Paul Graham approach and consider our language choice to be our secret weapon, I suppose (he considered Lisp to be his secret weapon because he was so much more productive in Lisp), but then when we need to look for work we might not find any jobs which require our chosen language. My point is that I'm not sure that starting a consulting company which makes it's main focus a language choice probably is a shakey proposition. I could start one for Ruby. Guido could (probably has) start one for Python. Eventually doesn't it just become your marketing group against mine? Seems to me that the current method works fine - you like Perl, you use Perl at work and show others why they might want to use Perl. Word-of-mouth, grass roots marketing seems to have served Perl quite nicely up to this point. Java and .Net have lots of marketing $$ behind them, which is why they're doing well with the PHBs - but that doesn't mean they have street cred. If you want to fight the fight on Sun's and Micro$oft's terms there's no way you can win. However, if you started a consulting company where the main focus was productivity, that could win. If you could out-produce those Java and .Net programmers by a good margin and get things done faster then you've got a strategy for making money. Currently the focus has been on cost (witness the offshoring of jobs to low pay countries like India), however, I suspect that over the next couple of years companies will be disappointed with the results (you get what you pay for) and they'll be looking more towards quality and results - we can only hope anyway. Phil From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Aug 13 13:42:15 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Aug 13 13:42:42 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Between MySQL and PostgreSQL I prefer... In-Reply-To: <20040813181624.GB24425@gblx.net> References: <50201.130.94.162.208.1092418391.squirrel@www.joshheumann.com> <863c2r53w1.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <20040813181624.GB24425@gblx.net> Message-ID: <1092422534.3746.31.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-08-13 at 11:16, Austin Schutz wrote: > So you do get something in return for mysql's shortcomings. If I had > a project where data integrity were critical in a transactional db, however, It's a common mistake that MySQL doesn't support transactions; it does if you use InnoDB or BDB tables instead of MyISAM. For some reason, some vendors only ship with MyISAM enabled; I don't know if there are patent issues or what. > I would definitely use something a little more bulletproof, and postgres is > a good choice for people who don't want to fork over whatever is in their > bank account to Oracle. I've used postgres before on a couple projects and > it works pretty well, though it tends to be a little more bitchy about syntax > and datatype conversion than mysql. I've been told that it's far easier to set up replication between MySQL servers than Postgres, although I've never tried to do either. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley@nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20040813/11be9dc6/attachment.bin From merlyn at stonehenge.com Fri Aug 13 16:12:58 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Fri Aug 13 16:13:02 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] An interesting idea this way comes In-Reply-To: <200408061354.35473.jgardner@jonathangardner.net> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040806121152.029a80f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> <200408061354.35473.jgardner@jonathangardner.net> Message-ID: <86u0v64u91.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Gardner writes: Jonathan> First off, to comment about Stonehenge, my impression was Jonathan> that it was just another company. I had a prejudice that Jonathan> they would shrinkwrap software and if I got hired there I Jonathan> would just be another engineer slaving away in the Jonathan> corner. The reality may be very different. Especially Jonathan> hearing what Randal[...] said above, I may look more at the Jonathan> Stonehenge. [...] Jonathan> Things like accountants, salespeople, account managers, help Jonathan> desks, 24/7 support call centers and staff, legal Jonathan> departments, etc... All these are things we want someone Jonathan> else to do because we stink at it. Which is exactly why I'm building an organization to do all those things that I don't do very well as an individual. I'm creating partnerships. I'm hiring sales people. I already have an operations staff for financial and legal and other stuff. But I shall not forget my roots. I've been involved in recent contracts where the pay-through rate is 90%! While I can't promise that on every contract, let me just say that finding something better than 50% in the real world is unheard of. I want everyone to win. Thanks to my recent contacts I made at OSCON, I could need a dozen new trustworthy Perl hackers in the next six weeks. And it'd be rediculous for me to not take advantage of the economy of scale, so we aren't all building up sales and marketing and billing teams (or do that work at 2am on our own). I also have an investment in the Perl community. My name has been in hardcopy over 21 *million* times in various books and magazines. I'm here to stay. You are all my tribe. I respect you, and I believe I've also earned your respect. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From darthsmily at verizon.net Fri Aug 13 16:51:12 2004 From: darthsmily at verizon.net (darthsmily) Date: Fri Aug 13 16:32:32 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Standards and practices. Message-ID: <411D37D0.2070907@verizon.net> Hello, I am looking for a web site that has information on software development, documentation, and version control best practices and standards. I have been to ISO.org and microsoft.com and couldn't find anything about best practices for version and source control. Microsoft used to have some information, but I can no longer find it. I am trying to help some people created a proposal for changing the way their company does their software process. Thanks, Darthsmily From merlyn at stonehenge.com Fri Aug 13 16:35:46 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Fri Aug 13 16:35:51 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] An interesting idea this way comes In-Reply-To: <86u0v64u91.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040806121152.029a80f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> <200408061354.35473.jgardner@jonathangardner.net> <86u0v64u91.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <86llgi4t71.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Randal" == Randal L Schwartz writes: Randal> Thanks to my recent contacts I made at OSCON, I could need a Randal> dozen new trustworthy Perl hackers in the next six weeks. Ooops. Badly worded. THIS WAS NOT A CALL FOR RESUMES. STOP ALREADY! STOP! We now return you to your technical mailing list... :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From raanders at acm.org Fri Aug 13 17:44:29 2004 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Fri Aug 13 17:44:30 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presentation idea In-Reply-To: <20040813174916.27891.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Ovid wrote: > Does this interest anyone? Yes but now I need to figure out a way to get to Portland once a month (from the Spokane/North Idaho area :-) Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" From johnl at johnlabovitz.com Fri Aug 13 17:55:53 2004 From: johnl at johnlabovitz.com (John Labovitz) Date: Fri Aug 13 17:56:00 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Standards and practices. In-Reply-To: <411D37D0.2070907@verizon.net> References: <411D37D0.2070907@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Aug 13, 2004, at 2:51 PM, darthsmily wrote: > I am looking for a web site that has information on software > development, documentation, and version control best practices and > standards. It's not a website, but I enjoyed reading "Coder to Developer: Tools and Strategies for Delivering your Software" by Mike Gunderloy. He goes over a lot of the process of development, and includes stuff on version control. The examples are very .NET, but not so much that it wasn't useful otherwise. It's also primarily tailored towards the individual or small group, I believe. -- John Labovitz Consulting, LLC http://mac.johnlabovitz.com johnl@johnlabovitz.com AIM/iChat: jslabovitz +1 503.949.3492 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20040813/4714c9d3/smime.bin From johnl at johnlabovitz.com Fri Aug 13 17:59:09 2004 From: johnl at johnlabovitz.com (John Labovitz) Date: Fri Aug 13 17:59:14 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presentation idea In-Reply-To: <20040813174916.27891.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040813174916.27891.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <631695DC-ED7C-11D8-862B-000D93B0B74E@johnlabovitz.com> On Aug 13, 2004, at 10:49 AM, Ovid wrote: > What do people think about a presentation where we sit down and > actually write a real, live module, from scratch, using test-driven > development? Yeah! I'd really like to see how other folks go about writing their tests. I've been taking the super-extreme approach of writing the release notes (email) first, then the tests, then the app or script. That might not work so well on bigger projects, but on some recent small scripts, it's worked nicely. -- John Labovitz Consulting, LLC http://mac.johnlabovitz.com johnl@johnlabovitz.com AIM/iChat: jslabovitz +1 503.949.3492 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20040813/cef2956d/smime.bin From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Fri Aug 13 18:27:31 2004 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (publiustemp-pdxpm@yahoo.com) Date: Fri Aug 13 18:27:33 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Audience Participation Testing Message-ID: <20040813232731.56041.qmail@web60801.mail.yahoo.com> OK. It looks like enough people like this idea that I'll do it. Josh has tentatively agreed to let me have the October slot. Here are my thoughts: 1. I will have no presentation. This will all be ad-lib aside from a few opening comments. 2. Everyone participates. This will be "pair programming" with a curious definition of "pair." 3. Think of module ideas. It's a more realistic example if you see how it really works. Of course, I'll have a couple of backup module ideas just in case everyone has crazy ideas like "build a pure Perl Prolog implementation" (I know that's crazy. I've tried it.) Practical module ideas are great, but things that rely on standard modules are preferred as there's no guarantee that I'll have the requisite module installed, though I'll have DBD::SQLite in case we want to do some database work. As a last resort, I might just do something silly like a base class for role-playing characters (similar to AD&D -- if I can remember it.) Also, a backup laptop or two wouldn't hurt on the off chance that mine is giving me trouble. I sometimes do strange things to it. Cheers, Ovid ===== Silence is Evil http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/philosophy/indexdecency.htm Ovid http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=17000 Web Programming with Perl http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From ajsavige at yahoo.com.au Sat Aug 14 22:55:24 2004 From: ajsavige at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Andrew=20Savige?=) Date: Sat Aug 14 22:55:26 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presentation idea In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040815035524.19064.qmail@web50810.mail.yahoo.com> Roderick A. Anderson wrote: > On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Ovid wrote: > > > Does this interest anyone? > > Yes but now I need to figure out a way to get to Portland once a month > (from the Spokane/North Idaho area :-) I have no clue where is "Spokane/North Idaho area" but it has to be easier to get to Portland from there than Sydney. :-) /-\ (wire-tapping Pdx-pm and hoping to wire-tap the post mortem of this interesting idea) Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com From almeria at earthlink.net Sat Aug 14 23:50:45 2004 From: almeria at earthlink.net (Raphael Almeria) Date: Sat Aug 14 23:50:45 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presentation idea In-Reply-To: <20040815035524.19064.qmail@web50810.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040815035524.19064.qmail@web50810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Now why would an Aussie be lurking on a Portland mailing list? ;) On Aug 14, 2004, at 8:55 PM, Andrew Savige wrote: > Roderick A. Anderson wrote: >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Ovid wrote: >> >>> Does this interest anyone? >> >> Yes but now I need to figure out a way to get to Portland once a month >> (from the Spokane/North Idaho area :-) > > I have no clue where is "Spokane/North Idaho area" but it has to be > easier > to get to Portland from there than Sydney. :-) > > /-\ (wire-tapping Pdx-pm and hoping to wire-tap the post mortem of this > interesting idea) > > > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > http://au.movies.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > From almeria at earthlink.net Sat Aug 14 23:57:11 2004 From: almeria at earthlink.net (Raphael Almeria) Date: Sat Aug 14 23:57:11 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Standards and practices. In-Reply-To: <411D37D0.2070907@verizon.net> References: <411D37D0.2070907@verizon.net> Message-ID: <91781309-EE77-11D8-A593-000A95A677EC@earthlink.net> When searching sites it is best to use one of the major search engines like Google or Yahoo and use their advanced search to limit the search to a specific domain. Local site search sucks. On Aug 13, 2004, at 2:51 PM, darthsmily wrote: > Hello, > I am looking for a web site that has information on software > development, documentation, and version control best practices and > standards. > > I have been to ISO.org and microsoft.com and couldn't find anything > about best practices for version and source control. > Microsoft used to have some information, but I can no longer find it. > > I am trying to help some people created a proposal for changing the > way their company does their software process. > > Thanks, > Darthsmily > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > From raanders at acm.org Sun Aug 15 08:35:59 2004 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Sun Aug 15 08:35:59 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presentation idea In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Aug 2004, Raphael Almeria wrote: > Now why would an Aussie be lurking on a Portland mailing list? ;) Probably for the same reason someone Northern Idaho does. Active list, great answers, and the right people on the list. > > I have no clue where is "Spokane/North Idaho area" but it has to be > > easier to get to Portland from there than Sydney. :-) He's right. At least I can drive! Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" From merlyn at stonehenge.com Sun Aug 15 10:59:30 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Sun Aug 15 10:59:34 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presentation idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <864qn41jfh.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Roderick" == Roderick A Anderson writes: Roderick> Probably for the same reason someone Northern Idaho does. Roderick> Active list, great answers, and the right people on the Roderick> list. What defines "right people"? I think I'm one of the "left people". :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From raanders at acm.org Sun Aug 15 11:57:18 2004 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Sun Aug 15 11:57:17 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Presentation idea In-Reply-To: <864qn41jfh.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: On 15 Aug 2004, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > >>>>> "Roderick" == Roderick A Anderson writes: > > Roderick> Probably for the same reason someone Northern Idaho does. > Roderick> Active list, great answers, and the right people on the > Roderick> list. > > What defines "right people"? I think I'm one of the "left people". :) In an attempt to not inflate or deflate egos I avoided names. Now you gone and done it. Yes one of the right, left, center, whatever people. Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" From raa at mailporter.net Tue Aug 17 14:53:53 2004 From: raa at mailporter.net (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Tue Aug 17 14:54:04 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] My Apology Message-ID: <41226251.9080208@mailporter.net> All, I apologize for my response to Randal and the list Sunday. I was caught up in what I thought was the humorous situation of non-Portland area people using this most excellent list with a significant membership of whos-whos in the perl world. You may note I have changed my e-mail address so this would make it through since I'm sure I made a few blacklists and I will refrain from using my figures when the brain is not fully engaged in the future. Again, I am sorry. Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" --- [Certified Virus free by ASISNA Mail Services. www.asisna.com ] From Stout.Joel at Menloworldwide.com Tue Aug 17 18:27:25 2004 From: Stout.Joel at Menloworldwide.com (Stout, Joel R) Date: Tue Aug 17 18:27:28 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] CGI access to remote windows server Message-ID: The following script gives me this error: "Cannot open directory (No such file or directory) f:\outbox\" but it's there I swear :) Any help? I double-checked the paths and they all lead me to the right folder... #!c:\perl\perl.exe use CGI qw(param); print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; my $outdir; #$outdir="c:\\perl\\test\\"; # works! but need to access files on another server $outdir="f:\\outbox\\"; # mapped drive doesn't work - as suggested from googled post #$outdir="\\\\ljkkk777\\Outbound\\"; # network path doesn't work, exact same path works with run command opendir(OUTDIR, $outdir) || die print ("Cannot open directory ($!) $outdir"); my @files= readdir(OUTDIR); closedir(OUTDIR); print ""; print ""; print "

Files

"; my $file; foreach $file (@files) { print $file."
"; } print ""; print ""; From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Thu Aug 19 16:28:02 2004 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (publiustemp-pdxpm@yahoo.com) Date: Thu Aug 19 16:28:04 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Job spam Message-ID: <20040819212802.87185.qmail@web60808.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, If anyone is interested, I've just received a call out of the blue from a recruiter who's looking for top-notch Perl programmers with Extreme Programming experience who are interested in working in San Mateo, California. The pay ranges she discussed were impressive, but I don't want to move to California. If anyone has a strong resume in these areas and is interested, please let me know (off list) and I will forward your information. Cheers, Ovid ===== Silence is Evil http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/philosophy/indexdecency.htm Ovid http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=17000 Web Programming with Perl http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From cdawson at webiphany.com Sat Aug 21 14:27:46 2004 From: cdawson at webiphany.com (Chris Dawson) Date: Sat Aug 21 14:38:22 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] anyone know of local (Portland, OR) HTML::Mason hosting provider? Message-ID: <4127A232.7040003@webiphany.com> I am looking to switch a site to HTML::Mason. Does anyone know of a hosting provider local to the Portland, OR area who could provide this? From will at williamschmidt.com Sat Aug 21 15:15:51 2004 From: will at williamschmidt.com (T. William Schmidt) Date: Sat Aug 21 15:13:30 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] anyone know of local (Portland, OR) HTML::Mason hosting provider? In-Reply-To: <4127A232.7040003@webiphany.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040821131300.032bf2f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> Try John Telford at http://www.johntelford.com/. Using FreeBSD, the other open-source OS. At 12:27 PM 8/21/2004 -0700, Chris Dawson wrote: >I am looking to switch a site to HTML::Mason. Does anyone know of a >hosting provider local to the Portland, OR area who could provide this? >_______________________________________________ >Pdx-pm-list mailing list >Pdx-pm-list@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list Regards, Will Schmidt WilliamSchmidt.com, LLC 11201 NW 77th Street Terrebonne, OR 97760 541 504-0290 will@williamschmidt.com http://www.williamschmidt.com/ From merlyn at stonehenge.com Sat Aug 21 17:52:38 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Sat Aug 21 17:52:47 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] anyone know of local (Portland, OR) HTML::Mason hosting provider? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040821131300.032bf2f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040821131300.032bf2f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> Message-ID: <86pt5kaytl.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "T" == T William Schmidt writes: T> Try John Telford at http://www.johntelford.com/. Using FreeBSD, the T> other open-source OS. You mean the Other Other Other open-source OS. :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From will at williamschmidt.com Sat Aug 21 19:04:13 2004 From: will at williamschmidt.com (T. William Schmidt) Date: Sat Aug 21 19:01:49 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] anyone know of local (Portland, OR) HTML::Mason hosting provider? In-Reply-To: <86pt5kaytl.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040821131300.032bf2f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20040821131300.032bf2f0@mail.williamschmidt.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040821165952.032eb948@mail.williamschmidt.com> Yes, the Yet Another Open Source OS (YAOSOS) :-) The jerk moderator running the Mason list rejected my reply-all answer to his member's question because I am not a member of his list. Da... Now would we do that to a courteous cross post? At 03:52 PM 8/21/2004 -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > >>>>> "T" == T William Schmidt writes: > >T> Try John Telford at http://www.johntelford.com/. Using FreeBSD, the >T> other open-source OS. > >You mean the Other Other Other open-source OS. :) > >-- >Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > >Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. >See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! Regards, Will Schmidt WilliamSchmidt.com, LLC 11201 NW 77th Street Terrebonne, OR 97760 541 504-0290 will@williamschmidt.com http://www.williamschmidt.com/ From ptkwt at aracnet.com Tue Aug 24 17:04:09 2004 From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) Date: Tue Aug 24 17:04:12 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Ruby job (Perl programmers can apply) Message-ID: I sent this to the Portland and Seattle Ruby mailing lists and it seems that everyone is currently employed there (what a change from a year ago!). Since this was my old job (actually, they already found my replacement, now they're hiring another person) I know a bit about what's going on there. Since they haven't found an available Ruby expert, I think they would do fine with someone who knows Perl and is familiar with OO programming - so if you are good with Perl and OO and would be willing to learn Ruby (and get paid while learning it:) don't let the requirements scare you. The person you would be working with is a Ruby expert so he'll be able to help bring you up to speed. Also, they list C/C++, but there will be very little of that. The vast majority of the code is being done in Ruby. See below for more info. Please don't reply to me, reply to Gina Ash (email & phone# below). Phil ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:52:11 -0400 From: Gina Ash Reply-To: gina@wizardstaffing.com To: ptkwt@aracnet.com Subject: New contract position! Dear Phil, I just saw your resume on Monster.com. Although it is from a year ago, I have a position (described below) with Intel Corp that might interest you. Intel sends their jobs out to about 15 companies. It is your choice as to whom you work with so first, here is some info about us at Wizard Staffing: 1) We are a primary vendor with Intel, have worked with them since 1993 2) We adhere to the principles of the “Contractors’ Bill of Rights” and always disclose our billing rates and markup. 3) Our markup is one of the lowest in the industry, enabling us to get HIGHER RATES for our consultants while meeting client goals. 4)We have optional full benefits available for contract workers 5)We are locally owned and operated in Oregon If you are interested in the following job, and fit the specified requirements (SEE BELOW), please send me an email reply with your current resume attached and hourly rate, and let me know the best time to call you. Sincerely, Gina gina@wizardstaffing.com ______________________ Request Number: 87066 Assignment Information Project Location: OR Project Name: SW Engineer- Ruby,C, C++-License Acquistion/ Reg Process Desired Start Date: 08/30/2004 Length of Engagement: 3 months Shift: 01 Primary Skill: Other Skills: Roles & Responsibilities Desired Start Date: ASAP Estimated Assignment Length: 3 months Is the position Full Time or Part Time: Full Time Position Title: Software Engineer (Contractor) Project Description: The license acquisition and registration process for many of the major Intel software like Compilers, VTune etc is not very intuitive. This project is to streamline the process and enhance the customer experience when purchasing an Intel Software Product thereby allowing cost saving and manufacturing efficiency changes. This project is high profile with direct impact to Intel customers. Daily Responsibilities: Developing a dynamic/interactive UI (both Graphic & text base) for Linux* and Windows*. Developing and maintaining a utility which reads a user's system and provides feedback on license/product eligibility and does transparent license handling. Validation testing. Technical Documentation Please indicated %travel required: None. Years of Experience Desired: 5+ years Expertise Level: Mid to Sr. Necessary Skills: Ruby; C/C++ programming; GUI programming experience; . Must be a ble to develop code for both the Linux and Windows operating systems ; Additional Skills Desired : Highly Desired: FlexLM licensing Webservices knowledge of SSL CVS Nice to have: Java Experience using version control (preferably CVS) From ptkwt at aracnet.com Tue Aug 24 17:17:24 2004 From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) Date: Tue Aug 24 17:17:27 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Ruby job (Perl programmers can apply) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just thought of something else... Sometimes these contract recruiters won't give you the time of day if your skills/experience don't match the requirements exactly. If she doesn't get back to you, go ahead and send your resume to me and I'll forward it to the correct person on the 'inside'. He already told me that he was open to finding someone with Perl or Python skills if he can't find someone with Ruby on their resume. Phil On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Phil Tomson wrote: > > I sent this to the Portland and Seattle Ruby mailing lists and it seems > that everyone is currently employed there (what a change from a year > ago!). > > Since this was my old job (actually, they already found my replacement, > now they're hiring another person) I know a bit about what's going on there. > Since they haven't found an available Ruby expert, I think they would do fine > with someone who knows Perl and is familiar with OO programming - so if > you are good with Perl and OO and would be willing to learn Ruby (and get > paid while learning it:) don't let the requirements scare you. The person > you would be working with is a Ruby expert so he'll be able to help > bring you up to speed. > > Also, they list C/C++, but there will be very little of that. The vast > majority of the code is being done in Ruby. > > See below for more info. > > Please don't reply to me, reply to Gina Ash (email & phone# below). > > Phil > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:52:11 -0400 > From: Gina Ash > Reply-To: gina@wizardstaffing.com > To: ptkwt@aracnet.com > Subject: New contract position! > > Dear Phil, > > I just saw your resume on Monster.com. Although it is from a year ago, > I have a position (described below) with Intel Corp that might interest > you. > Intel sends their jobs out to about 15 companies. It is your choice as > to whom you work with so first, here is some info about us at Wizard > Staffing: > > 1) We are a primary vendor with Intel, have worked with them since 1993 > 2) We adhere to the principles of the “Contractors’ Bill of Rights” and > always disclose our billing rates and markup. > 3) Our markup is one of the lowest in the industry, enabling us to get > HIGHER RATES for our consultants while meeting client goals. > 4)We have optional full benefits available for contract workers > 5)We are locally owned and operated in Oregon > > > If you are interested in the following job, and fit the specified > requirements (SEE BELOW), please send me an email reply with your current > resume attached and hourly rate, and let me know the best time to call > you. > > Sincerely, > Gina > gina@wizardstaffing.com > ______________________ > > > Request Number: 87066 > Assignment Information > Project Location: OR > Project Name: SW Engineer- Ruby,C, C++-License Acquistion/ Reg Process > Desired Start Date: 08/30/2004 > Length of Engagement: 3 months > Shift: 01 > Primary Skill: > Other Skills: > > Roles & Responsibilities > Desired Start Date: ASAP > Estimated Assignment Length: 3 months > > Is the position Full Time or Part Time: Full Time > > Position Title: Software Engineer (Contractor) > > Project Description: The license acquisition and registration process > for > many of the major Intel software like Compilers, VTune etc is not very > intuitive. This project is to streamline the process and enhance the > customer experience when purchasing an Intel Software Product thereby > allowing cost saving and manufacturing efficiency changes. This project > is > high profile with direct impact to Intel customers. > > Daily Responsibilities: Developing a dynamic/interactive UI (both > Graphic > & text base) for Linux* and Windows*. Developing and maintaining a > utility which reads a user's system and provides feedback on > license/product eligibility and does transparent license handling. > Validation testing. Technical Documentation > > Please indicated %travel required: None. > Years of Experience Desired: 5+ years > Expertise Level: Mid to Sr. > > Necessary Skills: Ruby; C/C++ programming; GUI programming > experience; . > Must be a ble to develop code for both the Linux and Windows operating > systems ; > > Additional Skills Desired : > Highly Desired: > FlexLM licensing > Webservices > knowledge of SSL > CVS > > Nice to have: > Java > Experience using version control (preferably CVS) > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pdx-pm-list mailing list > Pdx-pm-list@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list > From ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 24 17:50:11 2004 From: ewilhelm at sbcglobal.net (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Tue Aug 24 17:46:44 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Ruby job (Perl programmers can apply) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200408241750.11700.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> # The following was supposedly scribed by # Phil Tomson # on Tuesday 24 August 2004 05:04 pm: >Since this was my old job Are you kidding? You got asked out of the blue to apply for your old job because you fit the requirements? LOL! --Eric From ptkwt at aracnet.com Tue Aug 24 17:59:36 2004 From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) Date: Tue Aug 24 17:59:38 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Ruby job (Perl programmers can apply) In-Reply-To: <200408241750.11700.ewilhelm@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > # The following was supposedly scribed by > # Phil Tomson > # on Tuesday 24 August 2004 05:04 pm: > > >Since this was my old job > > Are you kidding? You got asked out of the blue to apply for your old job > because you fit the requirements? LOL! > Actually, I've been asked by 4 different contract companies now. I need to make up a form letter response. ...I guess it's good to know that they can find you when they've got something that fits your skillset. Phil From publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com Thu Aug 26 10:33:46 2004 From: publiustemp-pdxpm at yahoo.com (publiustemp-pdxpm@yahoo.com) Date: Thu Aug 26 10:33:54 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] Perl Jobs Message-ID: <20040826153346.5823.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> Yup. We're still hiring. Come work with me! http://jobs.perl.org/job/1761 Cheers, Ovid ===== Silence is Evil http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/philosophy/indexdecency.htm Ovid http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=17000 Web Programming with Perl http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/ From kellert at ohsu.edu Fri Aug 27 17:54:08 2004 From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas J Keller) Date: Fri Aug 27 17:54:32 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] text to html Message-ID: <0134E1F3-F87C-11D8-92D7-0003930405E2@ohsu.edu> Hi to anyone still hard at work. I have a very long readme file from a new application. I'd like to be able to read it in a browser and have links to the various chapters. Is there a good parser for this? Thanks, Tom K Tom Keller, Ph.D. http://www.ohsu.edu/research/core kellert@ohsu.edu 503-494-2442 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/pdx-pm-list/attachments/20040827/98444e39/attachment.bin From merlyn at stonehenge.com Fri Aug 27 18:50:19 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Fri Aug 27 18:50:28 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] text to html In-Reply-To: <0134E1F3-F87C-11D8-92D7-0003930405E2@ohsu.edu> References: <0134E1F3-F87C-11D8-92D7-0003930405E2@ohsu.edu> Message-ID: <86d61cf8ec.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas J Keller writes: Thomas> Hi to anyone still hard at work. Thomas> I have a very long readme file from a new application. I'd like to be Thomas> able to read it in a browser and have links to the various chapters. Thomas> Is there a good parser for this? Do you mean *other than* text2html in the HTML::FromText distribution? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From randall at sonofhans.net Fri Aug 27 20:44:34 2004 From: randall at sonofhans.net (Randall Hansen) Date: Fri Aug 27 20:44:44 2004 Subject: [Pdx-pm] TUCS::Pod2HTML ? Message-ID: i'm trying to get POD from a local file to be similar in structure and appearance to what CPAN generates from uploaded modules. it's been unexpectedly difficult. i can get a decent replica using Pod::HTML and a slightly munged version of CPAN's stylesheet, but the markup is different enough that the results aren't good. for instance, it takes a line break to be the end of a code block, and ends the 
 tag.

several search results tell me that Pod::HtmlEasy comes close to 
replicating CPAN's pod2html, but it seems sketchy to me.  the test fail 
on OSX, debian, and freebsd (perl 5.8.x on all).

i could force it (and probably will right after i send this :), but 
what i really want is the code that CPAN uses.  viewing source on a 
cpan page, i see something like this:



no search engine returns a result for TUCS::Pod2HTML.  i see no mention 
of it on CPAN's site.  any idea?

tia,

r

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Fri Aug 27 21:05:43 2004
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Fri Aug 27 21:05:53 2004
Subject: [Pdx-pm] TUCS::Pod2HTML ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <86zn4gdnk8.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Randall" == Randall Hansen  writes:

Randall> i'm trying to get POD from a local file to be similar in structure and
Randall> appearance to what CPAN generates from uploaded modules.  it's been
Randall> unexpectedly difficult.

Are you talking about search.cpan.org?  "the cpan site" is pretty
ambiguous.

The code for search.cpan.org is private, maintained by Graham Barr.
You might write him and ask him what he uses.

Yes, it seems odd that the code used by millions of Perl hackers
nearly every day is locked up somewhere, but that's as it is.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
 
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
From raa at mailporter.net  Tue Aug 31 11:25:17 2004
From: raa at mailporter.net (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 11:25:44 2004
Subject: [Pdx-pm] UNIX NL verses MS(DOS) CRLF
Message-ID: <4134A66D.5040808@mailporter.net>

Sorry but this may come through twice.  I forgot how I was subscribed.


I haven't found the answer ... yet and I am looking at perldoc.com, but
I'll ask here 'cause the search isn't going well.

I am processing files on a Windows system from a Linux system that has the
share as a SMB mount.  I'm using Marc Overmeer's Mailbox collection to
process spam folders (mailboxen) and any time the process (re)writes the
file I end up with NLs instead of CRLFs.  This causes all kinds of
heart-ache and discontent with the users as they can't pop the messages
back using Outlook.
   Is there a setting I can use 'perl-wise' to make all "\n" writes be
"\r\n".  The perlport man pages indicate to me that $/ applies to read not
write and the example only shows one character being used.

Of course given my record this is a samba issue or I totally missed the
correct man page.


TIA,
Rod
-- 

---
[Certified Virus free by ASISNA Mail Services.    www.asisna.com ]

From joe at radiojoe.org  Tue Aug 31 11:51:43 2004
From: joe at radiojoe.org (Joe Oppegaard)
Date: Tue Aug 31 11:52:13 2004
Subject: [Pdx-pm] UNIX NL verses MS(DOS) CRLF
In-Reply-To: <4134A66D.5040808@mailporter.net>
References: <4134A66D.5040808@mailporter.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 at 9:25am -0700, Roderick A. Anderson wrote:

> I am processing files on a Windows system from a Linux system that has the
> share as a SMB mount.  I'm using Marc Overmeer's Mailbox collection to
> process spam folders (mailboxen) and any time the process (re)writes the
> file I end up with NLs instead of CRLFs.  This causes all kinds of
> heart-ache and discontent with the users as they can't pop the messages
> back using Outlook.
>    Is there a setting I can use 'perl-wise' to make all "\n" writes be
> "\r\n".  The perlport man pages indicate to me that $/ applies to read not
> write and the example only shows one character being used.
> 

While not the same approach, you could just run the unix2dos utility
(most Linux distros have it) on all the mailbox files after your
program is done processing them.

        -Joe Oppegaard
From rootbeer at redcat.com  Tue Aug 31 12:51:24 2004
From: rootbeer at redcat.com (Tom Phoenix)
Date: Tue Aug 31 12:51:35 2004
Subject: [Pdx-pm] UNIX NL verses MS(DOS) CRLF
In-Reply-To: <4134A66D.5040808@mailporter.net>
References: <4134A66D.5040808@mailporter.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Roderick A. Anderson wrote:

> I'm using Marc Overmeer's Mailbox collection to process spam folders
> (mailboxen) and any time the process (re)writes the file I end up with
> NLs instead of CRLFs.  This causes all kinds of heart-ache and
> discontent with the users as they can't pop the messages back using
> Outlook.

It sounds like you're using code which wasn't written to be portable to
non-Unix machinery. If you're willing to fix it, you could perhaps hack it
to use $\ , which could be set at the time the file is opened. I haven't
looked at the code, though; it might be easier to search for uses of \n in
the code and replace each one with $LINE_ENDING or some such.

If you don't want to change the code, you could post-process the mailbox 
file to put the CRLFs back in. That's going to be slower, though, compared 
to fixing the module.

Speaking of portability, be sure to use binmode if you're going to handle 
lines ends directly, so that Perl won't garble your files.

Good luck with it!

--Tom Phoenix
From mikeraz at patch.com  Tue Aug 31 12:52:07 2004
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Tue Aug 31 12:52:09 2004
Subject: [Pdx-pm] UNIX NL verses MS(DOS) CRLF
In-Reply-To: <4134A66D.5040808@mailporter.net>
References: <4134A66D.5040808@mailporter.net>
Message-ID: <20040831175207.GA1890@patch.com>

On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 09:25:17AM -0700, Roderick A. Anderson wrote:
> I am processing files on a Windows system from a Linux system that has the
> share as a SMB mount.  I'm using Marc Overmeer's Mailbox collection to
> process spam folders (mailboxen) and any time the process (re)writes the
> file I end up with NLs instead of CRLFs.  

If I'm wrong, someone will step in and correct me.

The EOL for writing is controlled by the Output Record Seperator, AKA $\
this is different than the Input Record Sep. of $/.
  
you can explicitly set the beast and it can be different than $/.  
See `man perlvar` for more information.
  
This means you can have this code snip:
  
  
  $\ = "\r\n";
  
  open IFILE, "<$unixEOLfile";
  open OFILE, ">$dosEOLfile";
  
  while () {
          chomp;
          print OFILE;
  }
  
  close IFILE;
  close OFILE;
  



-- 
    Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
  Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
 http://meme.patch.com/memes/BicycleRiding
   Get Fixed:  http://www.dampfixie.org
  The fortune cookie says:
You must know that a man can have only one invulnerable loyalty, loyalty
to his own concept of the obligations of manhood.  All other loyalties
are merely deputies of that one.
		-- Nero Wolfe

From raa at mailporter.net  Tue Aug 31 12:56:31 2004
From: raa at mailporter.net (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 12:56:37 2004
Subject: [Pdx-pm] UNIX NL verses MS(DOS) CRLF
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4134A66D.5040808@mailporter.net>
	
Message-ID: <4134BBCF.4080306@mailporter.net>

Joe Oppegaard wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 at 9:25am -0700, Roderick A. Anderson wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I am processing files on a Windows system from a Linux system that has the
>>share as a SMB mount.  I'm using Marc Overmeer's Mailbox collection to
>>process spam folders (mailboxen) and any time the process (re)writes the
>>file I end up with NLs instead of CRLFs.  This causes all kinds of
>>heart-ache and discontent with the users as they can't pop the messages
>>back using Outlook.
>>   Is there a setting I can use 'perl-wise' to make all "\n" writes be
>>"\r\n".  The perlport man pages indicate to me that $/ applies to read not
>>write and the example only shows one character being used.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>While not the same approach, you could just run the unix2dos utility
>(most Linux distros have it) on all the mailbox files after your
>program is done processing them.
>  
>

Thanks Joe.

Yeah this did float by as an idea.  I'll try that on the next run to see
if it does fix the problem. I'm hoping this is the actual problem and
not soemthing else that manifests itself as a line ending issue.


Rod
-- 

---
[Certified Virus free by ASISNA Mail Services.    www.asisna.com ]

From raa at mailporter.net  Tue Aug 31 13:40:37 2004
From: raa at mailporter.net (Roderick A. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 13:40:43 2004
Subject: [Pdx-pm] UNIX NL verses MS(DOS) CRLF
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4134A66D.5040808@mailporter.net>
	
Message-ID: <4134C625.8040501@mailporter.net>

Tom Phoenix wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Roderick A. Anderson wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm using Marc Overmeer's Mailbox collection to process spam folders
>>(mailboxen) and any time the process (re)writes the file I end up with
>>NLs instead of CRLFs.  This causes all kinds of heart-ache and
>>discontent with the users as they can't pop the messages back using
>>Outlook.
>>    
>>
>
>It sounds like you're using code which wasn't written to be portable to
>non-Unix machinery. If you're willing to fix it, you could perhaps hack it
>to use $\ , which could be set at the time the file is opened. I haven't
>looked at the code, though; it might be easier to search for uses of \n in
>the code and replace each one with $LINE_ENDING or some such.
>  
>

Thanks Tom,

Well I think the code is portable but my implementation isn't that good.

    The files are on a Windows machine.
    The directory (folder) is shared (exported).
    The share is mounted on a Linux box.
    The program is running on the Linux box.

Is there some way for the module to determine this?  Well besides
reading several lines of the file looking for CRLF  or CR (Mac) verses
NL.  I'm not sure how the files are being opened with either just an
open() or or some other lower level method.  The module collection is a
monster but using it means I can point fingers when things don't work
quite right. (Then help debug where I can -- like now. :-)
   Right now I'm looking for a quick fix and will be trying Joe's
suggestion until I can get it done up right.

>If you don't want to change the code, you could post-process the mailbox 
>file to put the CRLFs back in. That's going to be slower, though, compared 
>to fixing the module.
>  
>
I'd rather not mess with others work.

>Speaking of portability, be sure to use binmode if you're going to handle 
>lines ends directly, so that Perl won't garble your files.
>
>Good luck with it!
>  
>
Thanks again,


Rod
-- 

---
[Certified Virus free by ASISNA Mail Services.    www.asisna.com ]

From kellert at ohsu.edu  Tue Aug 31 14:36:51 2004
From: kellert at ohsu.edu (Thomas J Keller)
Date: Tue Aug 31 14:37:13 2004
Subject: [Pdx-pm] UNIX NL verses MS(DOS) CRLF
In-Reply-To: <4134C625.8040501@mailporter.net>
References: <4134A66D.5040808@mailporter.net>
	
	<4134C625.8040501@mailporter.net>
Message-ID: <1B632850-FB85-11D8-8CE3-0003930405E2@ohsu.edu>

David Cross gave a line end conversion filter in his "Data Munging with 
Perl" book. I modified it to my taste:
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
## adapted by TJK from David Cross "Data Munging with Perl"
## uses the ASCII control chars to force conversion of line endings for 
use on other platforms by "retro" programs
use strict;

(@ARGV == 2) or die "Usage: Converts line endings of STDIN. Needs two 
args, source and target formats (Mac, Win, Unix).";

my ($src, $tgt) = @ARGV;

my %conv = (	Mac => "\cM",		#carriage-return
				Unix => "\cJ",		#line-feed
				Win => "\cM\cJ"		#both
			);
				
$src = $conv{$src};
$tgt = $conv{$tgt};

$/ = $src;

while () {
	s/$src/$tgt/go;
	print;
}

EXAMPLE:
$ perl line_ending_filter Unix Win < ./text.txt > ./text.doc

On Aug 31, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Roderick A. Anderson wrote:

> Tom Phoenix wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Roderick A. Anderson wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I'm using Marc Overmeer's Mailbox collection to process spam folders
>>> (mailboxen) and any time the process (re)writes the file I end up 
>>> with
>>> NLs instead of CRLFs.  This causes all kinds of heart-ache and
>>> discontent with the users as they can't pop the messages back using
>>> Outlook.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It sounds like you're using code which wasn't written to be portable 
>> to
>> non-Unix machinery. If you're willing to fix it, you could perhaps 
>> hack it
>> to use $\ , which could be set at the time the file is opened. I 
>> haven't
>> looked at the code, though; it might be easier to search for uses of 
>> \n in
>> the code and replace each one with $LINE_ENDING or some such.
>>
>>
>
> Thanks Tom,
>
> Well I think the code is portable but my implementation isn't that 
> good.
>
>     The files are on a Windows machine.
>     The directory (folder) is shared (exported).
>     The share is mounted on a Linux box.
>     The program is running on the Linux box.
>
> Is there some way for the module to determine this?  Well besides
> reading several lines of the file looking for CRLF  or CR (Mac) verses
> NL.  I'm not sure how the files are being opened with either just an
> open() or or some other lower level method.  The module collection is a
> monster but using it means I can point fingers when things don't work
> quite right. (Then help debug where I can -- like now. :-)
>    Right now I'm looking for a quick fix and will be trying Joe's
> suggestion until I can get it done up right.
>
>> If you don't want to change the code, you could post-process the 
>> mailbox
>> file to put the CRLFs back in. That's going to be slower, though, 
>> compared
>> to fixing the module.
>>
>>
> I'd rather not mess with others work.
>
>> Speaking of portability, be sure to use binmode if you're going to 
>> handle
>> lines ends directly, so that Perl won't garble your files.
>>
>> Good luck with it!
>>
>>
> Thanks again,
>
>
> Rod
> -- 
>
> ---
> [Certified Virus free by ASISNA Mail Services.    www.asisna.com ]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pdx-pm-list mailing list
> Pdx-pm-list@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pdx-pm-list