From jay at jays.net  Wed Dec  3 05:11:48 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 07:11:48 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Fishing for GUI ideas...
In-Reply-To: <7e84ed60812030341k658366d5ge4e1e597bbd02399@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49273D67.3040904@jays.net>
	<3e2be50811220822s7f578fd4j5e7094ee3274be3@mail.gmail.com>
	<F0886E72-45FE-4289-9437-875A1C2F870A@jays.net>
	<7e84ed60811231256x76095a42xdbd86b833008cd8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<A2E57E3E-D431-49A5-80D9-37F1CAA0B9C6@jays.net>
	<7e84ed60812030341k658366d5ge4e1e597bbd02399@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DD13459B-E1E4-49F0-9095-CB67376F6C05@jays.net>

On Dec 3, 2008, at 5:41 AM, Rob Townley wrote:
> Viral, Bacterial and ?ribosomal? dna are usually in a circle.
> Normal human, but not mitochondrial DNA is a line.
> When i did research, most molecular biologists were only interested in
> circular dna because anything else was too big.  Of course the human
> genetic code has been broken since then.  It may not matter at all to
> your users...

Ya. Whether or not they were looking at circular DNA our GUI would  
flatten it (as many tools do).

> When i taught C++, a geneticist and i toyed with a circular rna
> explorer like interface using a cross platform gui toolkit application
> for the Mac and Windows.

Oh? Did it survive? What's the name of that project?

> On a tangent, i was wondering if svg could make it easier to do a
> circle.   Scalable Vector Graphics defined in XML, maybe too much
> data.
> Or, using svg to make a line like interface similar to a disk  
> defragging gui.

Well, sidestepping the whole circular thing is my plan, so I don't  
have to deal with it. I'd be very impressed if any SVG renderer could  
scale up to thousands of base pairs without choking horribly.  :)

Status update: Mario added an Javascripty (almost AJAXy) scroll bar  
to our tool:

http://clab.ist.unomaha.edu/CLAB/index.php/RT386

j


From netarttodd at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 05:25:55 2008
From: netarttodd at gmail.com (Todd Christopher Hamilton)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 07:25:55 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Fishing for GUI ideas...
In-Reply-To: <DD13459B-E1E4-49F0-9095-CB67376F6C05@jays.net>
References: <49273D67.3040904@jays.net>
	<3e2be50811220822s7f578fd4j5e7094ee3274be3@mail.gmail.com>
	<F0886E72-45FE-4289-9437-875A1C2F870A@jays.net>
	<7e84ed60811231256x76095a42xdbd86b833008cd8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<A2E57E3E-D431-49A5-80D9-37F1CAA0B9C6@jays.net>
	<7e84ed60812030341k658366d5ge4e1e597bbd02399@mail.gmail.com>
	<DD13459B-E1E4-49F0-9095-CB67376F6C05@jays.net>
Message-ID: <1fdb7d920812030525q33cd48d0re02da43dd7669ae1@mail.gmail.com>

xml is a great idea. I agree it might be to much to render but...what
if you approached it like a large table.  the million row table
problem has (AFAICT) has been solved with the concept of pageing.
paging like displaying only 50 rows of you million row table.

what if you took a similar approach with your svg? each zoom level
displays only what you need.  new zoom requests (ajax) make a new
query in the background.

On 12/3/08, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 5:41 AM, Rob Townley wrote:
>> Viral, Bacterial and ?ribosomal? dna are usually in a circle.
>> Normal human, but not mitochondrial DNA is a line.
>> When i did research, most molecular biologists were only interested in
>> circular dna because anything else was too big.  Of course the human
>> genetic code has been broken since then.  It may not matter at all to
>> your users...
>
> Ya. Whether or not they were looking at circular DNA our GUI would
> flatten it (as many tools do).
>
>> When i taught C++, a geneticist and i toyed with a circular rna
>> explorer like interface using a cross platform gui toolkit application
>> for the Mac and Windows.
>
> Oh? Did it survive? What's the name of that project?
>
>> On a tangent, i was wondering if svg could make it easier to do a
>> circle.   Scalable Vector Graphics defined in XML, maybe too much
>> data.
>> Or, using svg to make a line like interface similar to a disk
>> defragging gui.
>
> Well, sidestepping the whole circular thing is my plan, so I don't
> have to deal with it. I'd be very impressed if any SVG renderer could
> scale up to thousands of base pairs without choking horribly.  :)
>
> Status update: Mario added an Javascripty (almost AJAXy) scroll bar
> to our tool:
>
> http://clab.ist.unomaha.edu/CLAB/index.php/RT386
>
> j
>
> _______________________________________________
> Omaha-pm mailing list
> Omaha-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/omaha-pm
>


-- 
Todd Christopher Hamilton
(402) 660-2787

From jay at jays.net  Wed Dec  3 05:35:41 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 07:35:41 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Fishing for GUI ideas...
In-Reply-To: <1fdb7d920812030525q33cd48d0re02da43dd7669ae1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49273D67.3040904@jays.net>
	<3e2be50811220822s7f578fd4j5e7094ee3274be3@mail.gmail.com>
	<F0886E72-45FE-4289-9437-875A1C2F870A@jays.net>
	<7e84ed60811231256x76095a42xdbd86b833008cd8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<A2E57E3E-D431-49A5-80D9-37F1CAA0B9C6@jays.net>
	<7e84ed60812030341k658366d5ge4e1e597bbd02399@mail.gmail.com>
	<DD13459B-E1E4-49F0-9095-CB67376F6C05@jays.net>
	<1fdb7d920812030525q33cd48d0re02da43dd7669ae1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00AC2FE6-77DF-4335-AC11-F97A7FDB8E33@jays.net>

On Dec 3, 2008, at 7:25 AM, Todd Christopher Hamilton wrote:
> xml is a great idea. I agree it might be to much to render but...what
> if you approached it like a large table.  the million row table
> problem has (AFAICT) has been solved with the concept of pageing.
> paging like displaying only 50 rows of you million row table.

Yes. Our tool pages every 500 bases:

    http://clab.ist.unomaha.edu/CLAB/index.php/RT386
    click demo

> what if you took a similar approach with your svg? each zoom level
> displays only what you need.  new zoom requests (ajax) make a new
> query in the background.

A circular SVG render might be neat for a single top-level overview  
of landmarks in the million bases, but any zoom level being circular  
or graphical would add nothing useful to the GUI.

j


From mario at ruby-im.net  Wed Dec  3 05:35:42 2008
From: mario at ruby-im.net (Mario Steele)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 07:35:42 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Fwd:  Fishing for GUI ideas...
In-Reply-To: <a4439dea0812030533l2528d912x95eb579b43a69cf3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49273D67.3040904@jays.net>
	<3e2be50811220822s7f578fd4j5e7094ee3274be3@mail.gmail.com>
	<F0886E72-45FE-4289-9437-875A1C2F870A@jays.net>
	<7e84ed60811231256x76095a42xdbd86b833008cd8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<A2E57E3E-D431-49A5-80D9-37F1CAA0B9C6@jays.net>
	<7e84ed60812030341k658366d5ge4e1e597bbd02399@mail.gmail.com>
	<DD13459B-E1E4-49F0-9095-CB67376F6C05@jays.net>
	<1fdb7d920812030525q33cd48d0re02da43dd7669ae1@mail.gmail.com>
	<a4439dea0812030533l2528d912x95eb579b43a69cf3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a4439dea0812030535g9e36862g1d5808d49193954d@mail.gmail.com>

Resent to the email list, since my "approval" wasn't completed at time of
post.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mario Steele <mario at ruby-im.net>
Date: Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Omaha.pm] Fishing for GUI ideas...
To: Todd Christopher Hamilton <netarttodd at gmail.com>
Cc: "Perl Mongers of Omaha, Nebraska USA" <omaha-pm at pm.org>


We run into a similar problem as we have right now, and why our current
method is static.  We have 5 different strains in which we need to convert
over into usable data.  Each strain has different set of data, some similar,
some not.  We're looking specifically for the mutations, but also for
markers of where the strain is found against our base comparison strain.

Currently, running out system as it is, the time it takes to generate the
output, is quite long, see:
http://clab.ist.unomaha.edu/CLAB/index.php/Talk:RT386#Profiling

The first test, is with a speed hack we had, that only loaded 1 strain of
data into the mixer, and generated only a snipplet of the genetic code, that
we could use for comparison of the design of the current output.  EG to give
us the best results, without running the same generation over and over and
over again, awaiting the length that the second part gives us.  Which, you
can see from the second set of test results, how long it takes to render 5
strains of data, into usable HTML format.

Also, as a side note, I sent this in a previous email, but was not
subscribed to the PM Email list, so I'm re-posting it here, to save space.
;-)

SVG would never, ever hold up to the rendering of the millions of base pairs
that are generated from the blast output.  I've looked at that as a
possibility for graphical representation, and just the shear amount of
generated data from both blast, and our own HTML output is demonstrated
below:

blast_output size: 38m (All 5 strains blasted)
html size: 15 megs (give or take a few kilobytes for svn repo data, and
images used in my tool you listed below)

SVG would have a literal field day trying to load that much data up in the
scalable method, to zoom into the individual amplicons of the DNA Strand,
not counting all 5 that we are looking at.

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 7:25 AM, Todd Christopher Hamilton <
netarttodd at gmail.com> wrote:

> xml is a great idea. I agree it might be to much to render but...what
> if you approached it like a large table.  the million row table
> problem has (AFAICT) has been solved with the concept of pageing.
> paging like displaying only 50 rows of you million row table.
>
> what if you took a similar approach with your svg? each zoom level
> displays only what you need.  new zoom requests (ajax) make a new
> query in the background.
>
> On 12/3/08, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:
> > On Dec 3, 2008, at 5:41 AM, Rob Townley wrote:
> >> Viral, Bacterial and ?ribosomal? dna are usually in a circle.
> >> Normal human, but not mitochondrial DNA is a line.
> >> When i did research, most molecular biologists were only interested in
> >> circular dna because anything else was too big.  Of course the human
> >> genetic code has been broken since then.  It may not matter at all to
> >> your users...
> >
> > Ya. Whether or not they were looking at circular DNA our GUI would
> > flatten it (as many tools do).
> >
> >> When i taught C++, a geneticist and i toyed with a circular rna
> >> explorer like interface using a cross platform gui toolkit application
> >> for the Mac and Windows.
> >
> > Oh? Did it survive? What's the name of that project?
> >
> >> On a tangent, i was wondering if svg could make it easier to do a
> >> circle.   Scalable Vector Graphics defined in XML, maybe too much
> >> data.
> >> Or, using svg to make a line like interface similar to a disk
> >> defragging gui.
> >
> > Well, sidestepping the whole circular thing is my plan, so I don't
> > have to deal with it. I'd be very impressed if any SVG renderer could
> > scale up to thousands of base pairs without choking horribly.  :)
> >
> > Status update: Mario added an Javascripty (almost AJAXy) scroll bar
> > to our tool:
> >
> > http://clab.ist.unomaha.edu/CLAB/index.php/RT386
> >
> > j
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Omaha-pm mailing list
> > Omaha-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/omaha-pm
> >
>
>
> --
> Todd Christopher Hamilton
> (402) 660-2787
>



-- 
Mario Steele
http://www.trilake.net
http://www.ruby-im.net
http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxruby/
http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxride/



-- 
Mario Steele
http://www.trilake.net
http://www.ruby-im.net
http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxruby/
http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxride/
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From jay at jays.net  Wed Dec  3 05:42:49 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 07:42:49 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Fishing for GUI ideas...
In-Reply-To: <00AC2FE6-77DF-4335-AC11-F97A7FDB8E33@jays.net>
References: <49273D67.3040904@jays.net>
	<3e2be50811220822s7f578fd4j5e7094ee3274be3@mail.gmail.com>
	<F0886E72-45FE-4289-9437-875A1C2F870A@jays.net>
	<7e84ed60811231256x76095a42xdbd86b833008cd8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<A2E57E3E-D431-49A5-80D9-37F1CAA0B9C6@jays.net>
	<7e84ed60812030341k658366d5ge4e1e597bbd02399@mail.gmail.com>
	<DD13459B-E1E4-49F0-9095-CB67376F6C05@jays.net>
	<1fdb7d920812030525q33cd48d0re02da43dd7669ae1@mail.gmail.com>
	<00AC2FE6-77DF-4335-AC11-F97A7FDB8E33@jays.net>
Message-ID: <30928B6F-EA97-4D65-A39D-E3E331E54FC1@jays.net>

On Dec 3, 2008, at 7:35 AM, Jay Hannah wrote:
> but any zoom level being circular or graphical would add nothing  
> useful to the GUI.

Hmm... To disagree with myself:   -grin-

Some graphical things would be useful at various zoom levels. But at  
any given zoom level the fact that a DNA strand happens to be  
circular, not linear, is not an important fact to attempt to  
visualize in a GUI.

j


From jay at jays.net  Wed Dec  3 09:08:50 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 11:08:50 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Lightning talk at mtg next Tue?
Message-ID: <774BEAE7-8031-46BD-9AE4-4D3D513445DA@jays.net>

If it's OK with the main presenter can I have 5 minutes at the top of  
next Tuesdays meeting to present this stuff Mario and I have been  
working on?

    http://clab.ist.unomaha.edu/CLAB/index.php/RT386

Thanks,

j



From jhannah at omnihotels.com  Wed Dec  3 13:40:11 2008
From: jhannah at omnihotels.com (Jay Hannah)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:40:11 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] not defined $bucket || $bucket eq '???'
Message-ID: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBACA@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>

Oops. Hit a subtle bug in my code today because || considers '' true. 
 
Be careful out there...   :)
 
j
 
 

Index: Model/eWin/Transactions.pm
===================================================================
--- Model/eWin/Transactions.pm  (revision 3467)
+++ Model/eWin/Transactions.pm  (working copy)
@@ -108,7 +108,7 @@
       my $amount = $pms->{$tran_code};
       $sth->execute($property, $tran_code);
       my ($bucket) = $sth->fetchrow;
-      if (not defined $bucket || $bucket eq '???') {
+      if (not defined $bucket or $bucket eq '???') {
          $self->_complain_via_email($property, $tran_code, $crs);
          $bucket = '???';
       }
 
 
 
Bug demonstrated in the debugger.   :)
 
 
  DB<19> p $bucket
???

  DB<20> x (not defined $bucket || $bucket eq '???')
0  ''

  DB<21> x (not defined $bucket or $bucket eq '???')
0  1
 
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From jhannah at omnihotels.com  Wed Dec  3 13:47:27 2008
From: jhannah at omnihotels.com (Jay Hannah)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:47:27 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] subclassing Class::Date
Message-ID: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBACC@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>

I love Class::Date. Omni2::Control::DateTime is our subclass of it, and it lets you write some cool code.  :)
 
- "300s"    is just spiffy.  :)
 
j
 
 
BEFORE
   my $now = time();
   my ($sec,$min,$hour,$mday,$mon,$year,$wday,$yday,$isdst) = localtime($now - 300);
   my $datestring=sprintf("%04d-%02d-%02d %02d:%02d",($year + 1900),($mon + 1),$mday,$hour,$min);

AFTER
   my $datestring = (Omni2::Control::DateTime->new() - "300s")->format("%Y-%m-%d %H:%M");
 
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From jay at jays.net  Wed Dec  3 16:50:32 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 18:50:32 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] not defined $bucket || $bucket eq '???'
In-Reply-To: <C55C799C.1A61D%jhannah@omnihotels.com>
References: <C55C799C.1A61D%jhannah@omnihotels.com>
Message-ID: <5016D411-FEEC-48CA-AA68-8443F738DB45@jays.net>

From: brandonglesmann at gmail.com
Date: December 3, 2008 4:42:30 PM CST
> Disclaimer: I have been out of perl programming for over two years.  
> So, I am really rusty. Also I never used the perl debugger so I  
> could be misinterpreting the output. Lastly, I am a coward which is  
> why I did not reply all.

Well, thanks for saying it was OK for me to drag you into the  
sunshine so all can benefit from my stupidity.  :)

> WOW! Ok, I read that 10 times and have asked other perl programmers  
> in the area to read it as well.

Other Perl programmers? Sweet! Are they on the Omaha Perl Mongers  
mailing list? Recruit them!  :)

> couple questions:
> 1. How are the cases different? If ' ' is true and then both cases  
> of your example should be the same.......right?!?! Obviously not  
> since you changed the code but I don't know why.

' ' is very different from ''.   :)

I'm often a hunt and peck coder, so whatever perl does is the right  
answer. I don't know that there necessarily is a "why". (Other than  
"because that's what perl's C source code says" -grin-). So let's try  
some things...

First, note that '' is false and ' ' is true.

$ cat j.pl
print ''  ? 'yes ' : 'no ';
print ' ' ? 'yes ' : 'no ';
$ perl j.pl
no yes

But my thing was more like this:

$ cat j.pl
print ((not defined $j || 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
print ((not defined $j or 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
$ perl j.pl
no yes

-think,think,think-

I'm betting this happens due to operator precedence. Reading "perldoc  
perlop" doesn't help me much at a glance since I'm not sure where  
'defined' falls in the documented precedence order stack. But let's  
assume for a second that the precedence of 'defined' is higher than  
that of 'or' but lower than that of '||'. If that's true, then:

    not defined $j || 1

would be processed as:

    $j || 1          true
    defined true     true
    not true         false

So if 'defined' is a "nonassoc list operators (rightward)" then this  
is probably the correct answer and I feel all smart and stuff.   :)

> 2. How do you get a eq to return ' ' ?

You don't? Apparently it returns '' if false, 1 if true:

$ perl -d -e 1
   DB<1> x $j eq 'blah'
0  ''
   DB<2> x $j eq ''
0  1

perldoc perlop says:

   Binary "eq" returns true if the left argument is stringwise equal to
   the right argument.

And '' is false, and '1' is true, so there you have it...  :)

Did that help at all?

Cheers,

j



From topher-pm at zyp.org  Wed Dec  3 20:05:53 2008
From: topher-pm at zyp.org (Christopher Cashell)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 22:05:53 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] not defined $bucket || $bucket eq '???'
In-Reply-To: <5016D411-FEEC-48CA-AA68-8443F738DB45@jays.net>
References: <C55C799C.1A61D%jhannah@omnihotels.com>
	<5016D411-FEEC-48CA-AA68-8443F738DB45@jays.net>
Message-ID: <c480cccc0812032005k138c8056kb6ec1cff377e0eb1@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:
> I'm betting this happens due to operator precedence. Reading "perldoc
> perlop" doesn't help me much at a glance since I'm not sure where 'defined'
> falls in the documented precedence order stack. But let's assume for a
> second that the precedence of 'defined' is higher than that of 'or' but
> lower than that of '||'. If that's true, then:

Back when I was first learning Perl, it was stressed heavily to me by
a friend that 'or' is basically the lowest precedence operator
available (technically xor is the same, but it's much more rarely
used).  The advantage of this is that you never have to wonder about
precedence when doing something like:

  do stuff or die "stuff didn't work";

As the 'or' will always fall through after the rest.  I'm going to
guess that you hit it on the head regarding || and defined, as I know
|| falls well ahead of 'or' in precedence (along with everything
else).

> j

-- 
Christopher

From dan at linder.org  Thu Dec  4 06:36:37 2008
From: dan at linder.org (Dan Linder)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 08:36:37 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Command SCP client for Windows
Message-ID: <3e2be50812040636h29065925x94bb33b38b96f15c@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to setup a number of windows systems at work to upload files to a
central Linux server using scp and authorized keys to allow for hands-off
automation.

I started with PuTTY's "pscp.exe", but it has some drawbacks I can't work
around:
 * The first time it connects, it asks if the ssh fingerprint is OK.  It
won't let you use a command line switch to work around this.
 * All connection information is stored in the registry.  I'd really like to
use something that stores this in simple text files.
 * The identification key that comes from the Linux server has to be
modified with PuttyGen to convert it to their format.

I looked at WinSCP, but it needs the PuttyGen converted keys too.
 * Each location will be reporting back to a different server with a
different admin, so creating a new key for the client based on their server
is going to add a lot of overhead to my end.

CygWin crossed my mind, but it's a lot more than I'd like to have my users
install.

Can anyone point me to a free/gpl/oss command line client for Windows
systems that performs just the scp/sftp function using an OpenSSH key format
and saves the configuration information in text files?

I had hoped that the OpenSSH.org folks would have released a Windows
command-line version of their tools, but all their links point me to GUI
clients.

On a side topic, anyone ever tackled cross-compiling a Win32 text-only
program under Linux? :-)

Dan

-- 
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" (Who can watch the watchmen?) -- from the
Satires of Juvenal
"I do not fear computers, I fear the lack of them." -- Isaac Asimov (Author)
** *** ***** ******* *********** *************
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From tedkat at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 07:24:26 2008
From: tedkat at gmail.com (Theodore Katseres)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:24:26 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] not defined $bucket || $bucket eq '???'
In-Reply-To: <5016D411-FEEC-48CA-AA68-8443F738DB45@jays.net>
References: <C55C799C.1A61D%jhannah@omnihotels.com>
	<5016D411-FEEC-48CA-AA68-8443F738DB45@jays.net>
Message-ID: <b037451c0812040724j2e0f5b51lf82028c40adad6fd@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:

> From: brandonglesmann at gmail.com
> Date: December 3, 2008 4:42:30 PM CST
>
>> Disclaimer: I have been out of perl programming for over two years. So, I
>> am really rusty. Also I never used the perl debugger so I could be
>> misinterpreting the output. Lastly, I am a coward which is why I did not
>> reply all.
>>
>
> Well, thanks for saying it was OK for me to drag you into the sunshine so
> all can benefit from my stupidity.  :)
>
>  WOW! Ok, I read that 10 times and have asked other perl programmers in the
>> area to read it as well.
>>
>
> Other Perl programmers? Sweet! Are they on the Omaha Perl Mongers mailing
> list? Recruit them!  :)
>
>  couple questions:
>> 1. How are the cases different? If ' ' is true and then both cases of your
>> example should be the same.......right?!?! Obviously not since you changed
>> the code but I don't know why.
>>
>
> ' ' is very different from ''.   :)
>
> I'm often a hunt and peck coder, so whatever perl does is the right answer.
> I don't know that there necessarily is a "why". (Other than "because that's
> what perl's C source code says" -grin-). So let's try some things...
>
> First, note that '' is false and ' ' is true.
>
> $ cat j.pl
> print ''  ? 'yes ' : 'no ';
> print ' ' ? 'yes ' : 'no ';
> $ perl j.pl
> no yes
>
> But my thing was more like this:
>
> $ cat j.pl
> print ((not defined $j || 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
> print ((not defined $j or 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
> $ perl j.pl
> no yes
>
> -think,think,think-
>
> I'm betting this happens due to operator precedence. Reading "perldoc
> perlop" doesn't help me much at a glance since I'm not sure where 'defined'
> falls in the documented precedence order stack. But let's assume for a
> second that the precedence of 'defined' is higher than that of 'or' but
> lower than that of '||'. If that's true, then:
>
>   not defined $j || 1
>
> would be processed as:
>
>   $j || 1          true
>   defined true     true
>   not true         false
>
> So if 'defined' is a "nonassoc list operators (rightward)" then this is
> probably the correct answer and I feel all smart and stuff.   :)
>
>  2. How do you get a eq to return ' ' ?
>>
>
> You don't? Apparently it returns '' if false, 1 if true:
>
> $ perl -d -e 1
>  DB<1> x $j eq 'blah'
> 0  ''
>  DB<2> x $j eq ''
> 0  1
>
> perldoc perlop says:
>
>  Binary "eq" returns true if the left argument is stringwise equal to
>  the right argument.
>
> And '' is false, and '1' is true, so there you have it...  :)
>
> Did that help at all?
>

Just a thought...

C<||> is higher then C<not>  but
C<!> is higher then C<||> :P

If you put parentheses in the right place you get what you want.

cat t.pl
print (((not defined $j) || 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
print (((not defined $j) or 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
print ((! defined $j || 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
print ((not defined $j or 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ')
yes yes yes yes


-- 
Ted Katseres
     ||=O=||
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From robert.fulkerson at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 07:37:29 2008
From: robert.fulkerson at gmail.com (Robert Fulkerson)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:37:29 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] UNO Student Lightning Talks, Fall 2008
Message-ID: <6cb6eebc0812040737r45b857ci8af04a34a9510cbc@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings everyone,

It's that time of year again.  :)
The Fall 2008 UNO CSCI 2850 (Programming on the Internet) class invites you
to an evening of lightning talks on Perl programming, the Firefox web
browser and other (mostly) web-related topics.

Lightning Talks are no longer than 5 minutes and can be about anything: a
new idea, an evaluation, an observation, a story, a complaint, an
explanation, a suggestion, a report of success or failure, a call to action,
a description of a technique, technology, or a lament.

Usually we split the talks over two nights, but this semester it's going to
be one, big solid night of talks.

   - Where: Peter Kiewit Institute, Room 252 ( http://tinyurl.com/5g83cb )
   - When: Tuesday, December 9th, 2008
   - Time: 6:00 PM until 8:30 PM

Topics

   1. Writing a Greasemonkey script for FireFox to make BlackBoard tolerable
   2. Obfuscating Perl
   3. Connecting Perl to databases
   4. Net::SSH::Expect
   5. Using BioPerl for sequence analysis
   6. Perl Google APIs
   7. Acid Test 3
   8. Gossamer Forum
   9. Perl vs. Python
   10. Index a website starting with a single page
   11. Dictionary attack using Perl
   12. iTunes playlist extractor: C++ vs. Perl
   13. Regex Creator
   14. Regex Coach
   15. History of Perl
   16. Software Pirating Debate (Spore, SecuROM)
   17. Perl 6 vs. Perl 5
   18. Rapid Exploit Development using Perl
   19. SSH on iPod Touch
   20. Regex usage in Perl vs. C
   21. Ubuntu with Conky
   22. Perl-XML: XML Made Easy with Perl!
   23. Perl Module - GD::SecurityImage
   24. Gmail:Checker module
   25. Improving Perl program efficiency/performance
   26. Subversion tortoise client search
   27. Perl PayPal APIs
   28. JQuery UI
   29. Talking to LCD projectors using Perl
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From jay at jays.net  Thu Dec  4 08:15:40 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:15:40 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] UNO Student Lightning Talks, Fall 2008
In-Reply-To: <6cb6eebc0812040737r45b857ci8af04a34a9510cbc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6cb6eebc0812040737r45b857ci8af04a34a9510cbc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4938022C.1000708@jays.net>

Robert Fulkerson wrote:
>    - Where: Peter Kiewit Institute, Room 252 ( http://tinyurl.com/5g83cb )
>    - When: Tuesday, December 9th, 2008
>    - Time: 6:00 PM until 8:30 PM
>   

That overlaps our monthly meeting, but I assume it's OK to join at 18:00 
and sneak out at 18:50.  :)

Thanks for another invite! I love lightning talks.  :)

j



From jay at jays.net  Thu Dec  4 08:20:49 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:20:49 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] not defined $bucket || $bucket eq '???'
In-Reply-To: <b037451c0812040724j2e0f5b51lf82028c40adad6fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C55C799C.1A61D%jhannah@omnihotels.com>	<5016D411-FEEC-48CA-AA68-8443F738DB45@jays.net>
	<b037451c0812040724j2e0f5b51lf82028c40adad6fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49380361.5030505@jays.net>

Theodore Katseres wrote:
> If you put parentheses in the right place you get what you want.
>
> cat t.pl
> print (((not defined $j) || 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
> print (((not defined $j) or 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
> print ((! defined $j || 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
> print ((not defined $j or 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ')
> yes yes yes yes
>   

Awesome! Thanks!

Truly, we can fix anything by adding enough parenthesis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newick_format
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_programming_language

:)

j




From robert.fulkerson at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 08:30:01 2008
From: robert.fulkerson at gmail.com (Robert Fulkerson)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:30:01 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] UNO Student Lightning Talks, Fall 2008
In-Reply-To: <4938022C.1000708@jays.net>
References: <6cb6eebc0812040737r45b857ci8af04a34a9510cbc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4938022C.1000708@jays.net>
Message-ID: <6cb6eebc0812040830m2881d430hec50c7167e4c0c86@mail.gmail.com>

All,

Absolutely.  Come when you can and leave when you need to.  Just try to do
it during a break between talks.  ;)

-- b

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:

> Robert Fulkerson wrote:
>
>>   - Where: Peter Kiewit Institute, Room 252 ( http://tinyurl.com/5g83cb )
>>   - When: Tuesday, December 9th, 2008
>>   - Time: 6:00 PM until 8:30 PM
>>
>>
>
> That overlaps our monthly meeting, but I assume it's OK to join at 18:00
> and sneak out at 18:50.  :)
>
> Thanks for another invite! I love lightning talks.  :)
>
> j
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Omaha-pm mailing list
> Omaha-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/omaha-pm
>
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From mario at ruby-im.net  Thu Dec  4 11:04:12 2008
From: mario at ruby-im.net (Mario Steele)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:04:12 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Command SCP client for Windows
In-Reply-To: <3e2be50812040636h29065925x94bb33b38b96f15c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3e2be50812040636h29065925x94bb33b38b96f15c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a4439dea0812041104y15939401tdbd4b41e3e47380e@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Dan,

<snip>

> CygWin crossed my mind, but it's a lot more than I'd like to have my users
> install.
>

If you don't want to have a full blown Cygwin install, but are willing to
use Cygwin, another solution for you would be here:
http://sshwindows.sourceforge.net/

It has scp, sftp, and ssh packaged up from Cygwin, with the bare essentials
needed to execute these things, and also give you a SSH Server that you can
setup on Windows.  Though, I can't say that I have had a whole lot of luck
with it, as far as the server, but the client stuff works pretty well, from
what I remember.  I had it setup on a mock MSys/MinGW Setup when I had
windows going on my main computer.  But now that I have a Linux kernel that
I can use, I use Linux exclusively.

hth,
Mario

-- 
Mario Steele
http://www.trilake.net
http://www.ruby-im.net
http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxruby/
http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxride/
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From mario at ruby-im.net  Thu Dec  4 11:05:20 2008
From: mario at ruby-im.net (Mario Steele)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:05:20 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] not defined $bucket || $bucket eq '???'
In-Reply-To: <49380361.5030505@jays.net>
References: <C55C799C.1A61D%jhannah@omnihotels.com>
	<5016D411-FEEC-48CA-AA68-8443F738DB45@jays.net>
	<b037451c0812040724j2e0f5b51lf82028c40adad6fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<49380361.5030505@jays.net>
Message-ID: <a4439dea0812041105sd018647t96345bdf0f27be0@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:

> Theodore Katseres wrote:
>
>> If you put parentheses in the right place you get what you want.
>>
>> cat t.pl
>> print (((not defined $j) || 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
>> print (((not defined $j) or 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
>> print ((! defined $j || 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ');
>> print ((not defined $j or 1) ? 'yes ' : 'no ')
>> yes yes yes yes
>>
>>
>
> Awesome! Thanks!
>
> Truly, we can fix anything by adding enough parenthesis.
>

Fix anything, or screw anything up majorly. :P


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newick_format
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_programming_language
>
> :)
>
>
> j
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Omaha-pm mailing list
> Omaha-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/omaha-pm
>



-- 
Mario Steele
http://www.trilake.net
http://www.ruby-im.net
http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxruby/
http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxride/
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From dan at linder.org  Thu Dec  4 11:28:38 2008
From: dan at linder.org (Dan Linder)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:28:38 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Command SCP client for Windows
In-Reply-To: <a4439dea0812041104y15939401tdbd4b41e3e47380e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3e2be50812040636h29065925x94bb33b38b96f15c@mail.gmail.com>
	<a4439dea0812041104y15939401tdbd4b41e3e47380e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e2be50812041128p56ae1d93lac8b9f7a20f2d413@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, I'll check this out.

Dan

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Mario Steele <mario at ruby-im.net> wrote:

> Hey Dan,
>
> <snip>
>
>> CygWin crossed my mind, but it's a lot more than I'd like to have my users
>> install.
>>
>
> If you don't want to have a full blown Cygwin install, but are willing to
> use Cygwin, another solution for you would be here:
> http://sshwindows.sourceforge.net/
>
> It has scp, sftp, and ssh packaged up from Cygwin, with the bare essentials
> needed to execute these things, and also give you a SSH Server that you can
> setup on Windows.  Though, I can't say that I have had a whole lot of luck
> with it, as far as the server, but the client stuff works pretty well, from
> what I remember.  I had it setup on a mock MSys/MinGW Setup when I had
> windows going on my main computer.  But now that I have a Linux kernel that
> I can use, I use Linux exclusively.
>
> hth,
> Mario
>
> --
> Mario Steele
> http://www.trilake.net
> http://www.ruby-im.net
> http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxruby/
> http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxride/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Omaha-pm mailing list
> Omaha-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/omaha-pm
>



-- 
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" (Who can watch the watchmen?) -- from the
Satires of Juvenal
"I do not fear computers, I fear the lack of them." -- Isaac Asimov (Author)
** *** ***** ******* *********** *************
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From mario at ruby-im.net  Thu Dec  4 11:29:50 2008
From: mario at ruby-im.net (Mario Steele)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:29:50 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Command SCP client for Windows
In-Reply-To: <3e2be50812041128p56ae1d93lac8b9f7a20f2d413@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3e2be50812040636h29065925x94bb33b38b96f15c@mail.gmail.com>
	<a4439dea0812041104y15939401tdbd4b41e3e47380e@mail.gmail.com>
	<3e2be50812041128p56ae1d93lac8b9f7a20f2d413@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a4439dea0812041129m424b0dcbia4c147b9b917bdfa@mail.gmail.com>

Np, Let me know how it works out on your test system, and your deploy.  be
interesting to know. ;-)

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Dan Linder <dan at linder.org> wrote:

> Thanks, I'll check this out.
>
> Dan
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Mario Steele <mario at ruby-im.net> wrote:
>
>> Hey Dan,
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> CygWin crossed my mind, but it's a lot more than I'd like to have my
>>> users install.
>>>
>>
>> If you don't want to have a full blown Cygwin install, but are willing to
>> use Cygwin, another solution for you would be here:
>> http://sshwindows.sourceforge.net/
>>
>> It has scp, sftp, and ssh packaged up from Cygwin, with the bare
>> essentials needed to execute these things, and also give you a SSH Server
>> that you can setup on Windows.  Though, I can't say that I have had a whole
>> lot of luck with it, as far as the server, but the client stuff works pretty
>> well, from what I remember.  I had it setup on a mock MSys/MinGW Setup when
>> I had windows going on my main computer.  But now that I have a Linux kernel
>> that I can use, I use Linux exclusively.
>>
>> hth,
>> Mario
>>
>> --
>> Mario Steele
>> http://www.trilake.net
>> http://www.ruby-im.net
>> http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxruby/
>> http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxride/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Omaha-pm mailing list
>> Omaha-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/omaha-pm
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" (Who can watch the watchmen?) -- from the
> Satires of Juvenal
> "I do not fear computers, I fear the lack of them." -- Isaac Asimov
> (Author)
> ** *** ***** ******* *********** *************
>
> _______________________________________________
> Omaha-pm mailing list
> Omaha-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/omaha-pm
>



-- 
Mario Steele
http://www.trilake.net
http://www.ruby-im.net
http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxruby/
http://rubyforge.org/projects/wxride/
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From rob.townley at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 00:05:39 2008
From: rob.townley at gmail.com (Rob Townley)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 02:05:39 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Command SCP client for Windows
In-Reply-To: <3e2be50812040636h29065925x94bb33b38b96f15c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3e2be50812040636h29065925x94bb33b38b96f15c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7e84ed60812050005x1a31e106w7fc2f3b10f503252@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Dan Linder <dan at linder.org> wrote:
> I'm trying to setup a number of windows systems at work to upload files to a
> central Linux server using scp and authorized keys to allow for hands-off
> automation.
>
> I started with PuTTY's "pscp.exe", but it has some drawbacks I can't work
> around:
>  * The first time it connects, it asks if the ssh fingerprint is OK.  It
> won't let you use a command line switch to work around this.
>  * All connection information is stored in the registry.  I'd really like to
> use something that stores this in simple text files.
>  * The identification key that comes from the Linux server has to be
> modified with PuttyGen to convert it to their format.
>
> I looked at WinSCP, but it needs the PuttyGen converted keys too.
>  * Each location will be reporting back to a different server with a
> different admin, so creating a new key for the client based on their server
> is going to add a lot of overhead to my end.
>
> CygWin crossed my mind, but it's a lot more than I'd like to have my users
> install.
>
> Can anyone point me to a free/gpl/oss command line client for Windows
> systems that performs just the scp/sftp function using an OpenSSH key format
> and saves the configuration information in text files?
>
> I had hoped that the OpenSSH.org folks would have released a Windows
> command-line version of their tools, but all their links point me to GUI
> clients.
>
> On a side topic, anyone ever tackled cross-compiling a Win32 text-only
> program under Linux? :-)
>
> Dan
>
> --
> "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" (Who can watch the watchmen?) -- from the
> Satires of Juvenal
> "I do not fear computers, I fear the lack of them." -- Isaac Asimov (Author)
> ** *** ***** ******* *********** *************
>
> _______________________________________________
> Omaha-pm mailing list
> Omaha-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/omaha-pm
>

The first thing to get over when cross compiling for LinWin are
hardcoded text strings need to be identified as either plain ascii or
unicode.  Win32 development for many years used _T("") instead of ""
to enclose character strings.  On Win95, _T("") became "" because
UNICODE wasn't available.  On WinNT, _T("") would become L"" to denote
16 bit character UNICODE.   WinNT/WinCE would define UNICODE by
default making every character 16 bits that wrapped in _T("").

Further, this means the character pointers would have to be typed out
depending on the _UNICODE macro.  Since command line programs would
almost always use parameters, the compile breaks right at main(int
argc, char *argv[]) because under Win32/UNICODE main was defined to
only take wide characters.  The solution is simple with a #define
macro.

So if main(int argc, wchar_t *argv[] )

Assuming that it is still things are.....  this is getting too long.
If you need further help, let me know.

Robert Townley
402-670-4326

From rob.townley at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 01:01:46 2008
From: rob.townley at gmail.com (Rob Townley)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 03:01:46 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Command SCP client for Windows
In-Reply-To: <7e84ed60812050005x1a31e106w7fc2f3b10f503252@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3e2be50812040636h29065925x94bb33b38b96f15c@mail.gmail.com>
	<7e84ed60812050005x1a31e106w7fc2f3b10f503252@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7e84ed60812050101yc40c833qf41a334b0341e591@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 2:05 AM, Rob Townley <rob.townley at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Dan Linder <dan at linder.org> wrote:
>> I'm trying to setup a number of windows systems at work to upload files to a
>> central Linux server using scp and authorized keys to allow for hands-off
>> automation.
>>
>> I started with PuTTY's "pscp.exe", but it has some drawbacks I can't work
>> around:
>>  * The first time it connects, it asks if the ssh fingerprint is OK.  It
>> won't let you use a command line switch to work around this.
>>  * All connection information is stored in the registry.  I'd really like to
>> use something that stores this in simple text files.
>>  * The identification key that comes from the Linux server has to be
>> modified with PuttyGen to convert it to their format.
>>
>> I looked at WinSCP, but it needs the PuttyGen converted keys too.
>>  * Each location will be reporting back to a different server with a
>> different admin, so creating a new key for the client based on their server
>> is going to add a lot of overhead to my end.
>>
>> CygWin crossed my mind, but it's a lot more than I'd like to have my users
>> install.
>>
>> Can anyone point me to a free/gpl/oss command line client for Windows
>> systems that performs just the scp/sftp function using an OpenSSH key format
>> and saves the configuration information in text files?
>>
>> I had hoped that the OpenSSH.org folks would have released a Windows
>> command-line version of their tools, but all their links point me to GUI
>> clients.
>>
>> On a side topic, anyone ever tackled cross-compiling a Win32 text-only
>> program under Linux? :-)
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> --
>> "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" (Who can watch the watchmen?) -- from the
>> Satires of Juvenal
>> "I do not fear computers, I fear the lack of them." -- Isaac Asimov (Author)
>> ** *** ***** ******* *********** *************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Omaha-pm mailing list
>> Omaha-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/omaha-pm
>>
>
> The first thing to get over when cross compiling for LinWin are
> hardcoded text strings need to be identified as either plain ascii or
> unicode.  Win32 development for many years used _T("") instead of ""
> to enclose character strings.  On Win95, _T("") became "" because
> UNICODE wasn't available.  On WinNT, _T("") would become L"" to denote
> 16 bit character UNICODE.   WinNT/WinCE would define UNICODE by
> default making every character 16 bits that wrapped in _T("").
>
> Further, this means the character pointers would have to be typed out
> depending on the _UNICODE macro.  Since command line programs would
> almost always use parameters, the compile breaks right at main(int
> argc, char *argv[]) because under Win32/UNICODE main was defined to
> only take wide characters.  The solution is simple with a #define
> macro.
>
> So if main(int argc, wchar_t *argv[] )
>
> Assuming that it is still things are.....  this is getting too long.
> If you need further help, let me know.
>
> Robert Townley
> 402-670-4326
>


Recompiling is more fun, but then i remembered i used to have machines
do this using putty's psftp.exe in a batch file.  There is a cleaner
way, but the best way would be to recompile.

@echo. "echo y | p:\psftp.cmd PASSWORD"
p:\psftp.exe robertjtownley at web.sourceforge.net -pw %1 -bc -b p:\psftp.script
@echo. done

From andy at petdance.com  Fri Dec  5 07:40:47 2008
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:40:47 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Lightning talks from outside the echo chamber
Message-ID: <E49494B6-A84B-4DDC-ABA3-9C9247672F32@petdance.com>

http://perlbuzz.com/2008/12/lightning-talks-from-outside-the-echo-chamber.html
--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance




From jay at jays.net  Fri Dec  5 09:32:17 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:32:17 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Lightning talks from outside the echo chamber
In-Reply-To: <E49494B6-A84B-4DDC-ABA3-9C9247672F32@petdance.com>
References: <E49494B6-A84B-4DDC-ABA3-9C9247672F32@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <493965A1.9070908@jays.net>

Andy Lester wrote:
 > 
http://perlbuzz.com/2008/12/lightning-talks-from-outside-the-echo-chamber.html
 > "Someone get this on tape and YouTube 'em, willya?"

Hey Robert: Would it be OK to live stream the talks?

Hey Matt: I believe you owe me a favor. :)  Any chance you could do one 
of your awesome Tech Omaha streams next Tuesday?

   http://techomaha.com/were-live/

Thanks all!  :)

j



From jbisbee at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 11:06:54 2008
From: jbisbee at gmail.com (Jeff Bisbee)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 14:06:54 -0500
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Lightning talks from outside the echo chamber
In-Reply-To: <493965A1.9070908@jays.net>
References: <E49494B6-A84B-4DDC-ABA3-9C9247672F32@petdance.com>
	<493965A1.9070908@jays.net>
Message-ID: <e07cf2d10812051106y50c17e51v14e0f733e1702ece@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:
> Hey Matt: I believe you owe me a favor. :)  Any chance you could do one of
> your awesome Tech Omaha streams next Tuesday?

I'll watch!

Jeff Bisbee / jbisbee at gmail.com / jbisbee.multiply.com

From nicknisi at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 11:16:44 2008
From: nicknisi at gmail.com (Nicholas Nisi)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:16:44 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Lightning talks from outside the echo chamber
In-Reply-To: <493965A1.9070908@jays.net>
References: <E49494B6-A84B-4DDC-ABA3-9C9247672F32@petdance.com>
	<493965A1.9070908@jays.net>
Message-ID: <775504250812051116gb569206w33db71a705a1572b@mail.gmail.com>

I'll watch too!
Nicholas J. Nisi
nicknisi at gmail.com
nnisi at unomaha.edu
www.nicknisi.com


On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:

> Andy Lester wrote:
> >
> http://perlbuzz.com/2008/12/lightning-talks-from-outside-the-echo-chamber.html
> > "Someone get this on tape and YouTube 'em, willya?"
>
> Hey Robert: Would it be OK to live stream the talks?
>
> Hey Matt: I believe you owe me a favor. :)  Any chance you could do one of
> your awesome Tech Omaha streams next Tuesday?
>
>  http://techomaha.com/were-live/
>
> Thanks all!  :)
>
>
> j
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Omaha-pm mailing list
> Omaha-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/omaha-pm
>
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From secoskem at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 11:49:18 2008
From: secoskem at gmail.com (Matt Secoske)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:49:18 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Lightning talks from outside the echo chamber
In-Reply-To: <493965A1.9070908@jays.net>
References: <E49494B6-A84B-4DDC-ABA3-9C9247672F32@petdance.com>
	<493965A1.9070908@jays.net>
Message-ID: <1b5ac9dc0812051149ue3f07e9i6eb933c2f7d59f4b@mail.gmail.com>

Jay -

Absolutely!  There is one slight snag:  Dec 9th at 6pm we also have OJUG,
and Dynamic Language Users Group at 7... and we can only record one thing at
a time per channel.  I can easily create new "overflow" channels to handle
that problem, but we also will need people at each to record with their
machine.  I have a

If you guys can provide that, we are golden. TechOmaha would love to host
the video for you!

Blaine, Stephen - FYI.  I'll ping you both off line.

Cheers,
- Matt

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:

> Andy Lester wrote:
> >
> http://perlbuzz.com/2008/12/lightning-talks-from-outside-the-echo-chamber.html
> > "Someone get this on tape and YouTube 'em, willya?"
>
> Hey Robert: Would it be OK to live stream the talks?
>
> Hey Matt: I believe you owe me a favor. :)  Any chance you could do one of
> your awesome Tech Omaha streams next Tuesday?
>
>  http://techomaha.com/were-live/
>
> Thanks all!  :)
>
> j
>
>
>


-- 
Matt Secoske | Principal | nimblelogic llc | nimblelogic.com
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From secoskem at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 11:55:45 2008
From: secoskem at gmail.com (Matt Secoske)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:55:45 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Lightning talks from outside the echo chamber
In-Reply-To: <1b5ac9dc0812051149ue3f07e9i6eb933c2f7d59f4b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E49494B6-A84B-4DDC-ABA3-9C9247672F32@petdance.com>
	<493965A1.9070908@jays.net>
	<1b5ac9dc0812051149ue3f07e9i6eb933c2f7d59f4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1b5ac9dc0812051155p392fdee8g977688c1cb9e2d22@mail.gmail.com>

Jay, Stephen, Blaine -

We should get all the groups together after the meetings... Any suggestions
on time and place?

Cheers,
- Matt

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Matt Secoske <secoskem at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jay -
>
> Absolutely!  There is one slight snag:  Dec 9th at 6pm we also have OJUG,
> and Dynamic Language Users Group at 7... and we can only record one thing at
> a time per channel.  I can easily create new "overflow" channels to handle
> that problem, but we also will need people at each to record with their
> machine.  I have a
>
> If you guys can provide that, we are golden. TechOmaha would love to host
> the video for you!
>
> Blaine, Stephen - FYI.  I'll ping you both off line.
>
> Cheers,
> - Matt
>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Jay Hannah <jay at jays.net> wrote:
>
>> Andy Lester wrote:
>> >
>> http://perlbuzz.com/2008/12/lightning-talks-from-outside-the-echo-chamber.html
>> > "Someone get this on tape and YouTube 'em, willya?"
>>
>> Hey Robert: Would it be OK to live stream the talks?
>>
>> Hey Matt: I believe you owe me a favor. :)  Any chance you could do one of
>> your awesome Tech Omaha streams next Tuesday?
>>
>>  http://techomaha.com/were-live/
>>
>> Thanks all!  :)
>>
>> j
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Matt Secoske | Principal | nimblelogic llc | nimblelogic.com
>



-- 
Matt Secoske | Principal | nimblelogic llc | nimblelogic.com
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From andy at petdance.com  Fri Dec  5 12:21:14 2008
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 14:21:14 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Lightning talks from outside the echo chamber
In-Reply-To: <1b5ac9dc0812051149ue3f07e9i6eb933c2f7d59f4b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E49494B6-A84B-4DDC-ABA3-9C9247672F32@petdance.com>
	<493965A1.9070908@jays.net>
	<1b5ac9dc0812051149ue3f07e9i6eb933c2f7d59f4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20512345-68EE-444D-99C8-147F1FED1037@petdance.com>


On Dec 5, 2008, at 1:49 PM, Matt Secoske wrote:

> If you guys can provide that, we are golden. TechOmaha would love to  
> host the video for you!


Whatever happens, when there's something I can point Perlbuzz users  
at, will you please let me know?

Thanks,
xxo,
Andy

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance




From jhannah at omnihotels.com  Thu Dec 11 08:11:08 2008
From: jhannah at omnihotels.com (Jay Hannah)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:11:08 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Is this necessary? (perl code)
References: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1012BA31A@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>
Message-ID: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBB15@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>

I think @{ } is redundant with the fact that 
 
   my ($response, $success) = 
 
should put forward() into array context anyway. 
 
(Presumably forward() is using wantarray (perldoc -f wantarray) to determine what it should return based on the requested context.)
 
Try removing @{ } and then test both success ($twig, 1), and failure (0) returns from forward() to see if everything downstream from that code survives...  :)
 
HTH,
 
j
 
 
________________________________

From: Justin Esbenshade
Sent: Thu 12/11/2008 9:34 AM


     my ($response,$success) = @{$c->forward('OWS', 'CreateBooking', [ $room_args ])};

 

Is the @{ } required around the method call?  The few pages I saw from a Google search did not have that.

We're getting a Phoenix Fatal Error that's occurring saying we Can't use string ("0") as an ARRAY ref

 

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From jharr at ist.unomaha.edu  Thu Dec 11 14:13:42 2008
From: jharr at ist.unomaha.edu (James Harr)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:13:42 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Is this necessary? (perl code)
In-Reply-To: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBB15@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>
References: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1012BA31A@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>
	<396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBB15@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>
Message-ID: <FEA05FFE1F7E7348A9ACA24B9EFD334424C7DF@exchange.ist.unomaha.edu>

iirc, @{} is an array dereference. Forced array casting is done by enclosing the function call in parenthesis. 

$arr_ref = [1,2,3,4];
print $arr_ref->[1]; # grab a single item; prints "2"
@arr_copy = @$foo;   # de-reference the whole thing to make a copy
@arr_copy = @{$foo}; # same, but more explicit way
...
@rv_copy = @{$obj -> method()}; # We have to do this to get the order of operations right.

sub method { return [1,2,3,4] }

The same goes for hash %{} and scalar ${} de-referencing.
$scalar = 42;
$scalar_ref = \$scalar; # Perl's scalar references are funny




--
James Harr <jharr at ist.unomaha.edu>
402-554-3340
Assistant Research Systems Manager 
College of Information Science and Technology
University of Nebraska at Omaha

From: omaha-pm-bounces+jharr=ist.unomaha.edu at pm.org [mailto:omaha-pm-bounces+jharr=ist.unomaha.edu at pm.org] On Behalf Of Jay Hannah
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:11
To: Justin Esbenshade
Cc: omaha-pm at pm.org
Subject: Re: [Omaha.pm] Is this necessary? (perl code)

I think @{ } is redundant with the fact that 
?
?? my ($response, $success) = 
?
should put?forward() into array context anyway. 
?
(Presumably forward() is using wantarray (perldoc -f wantarray) to determine what it should return based on the requested context.)
?
Try removing @{ } and then test both success ($twig, 1), and failure (0) returns from forward() to see if everything downstream from that code survives...? :)
?
HTH,
?
j
?
?
________________________________________
From: Justin Esbenshade
Sent: Thu 12/11/2008 9:34 AM
???? my ($response,$success) = @{$c->forward('OWS', 'CreateBooking', [ $room_args ])};
?
Is the @{ } required around the method call?? The few pages I saw from a Google search did not have that.
We're getting a Phoenix Fatal Error that's occurring saying we Can't use string ("0") as an ARRAY ref
?

From jay at jays.net  Fri Dec 12 06:50:44 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:50:44 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Is this necessary? (perl code)
In-Reply-To: <FEA05FFE1F7E7348A9ACA24B9EFD334424C7DF@exchange.ist.unomaha.edu>
References: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1012BA31A@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>
	<396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBB15@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>
	<FEA05FFE1F7E7348A9ACA24B9EFD334424C7DF@exchange.ist.unomaha.edu>
Message-ID: <2D5D8169-8C4F-4422-867C-F2CF48D30DEC@jays.net>

On Dec 11, 2008, at 4:13 PM, James Harr wrote:
> $scalar_ref = \$scalar; # Perl's scalar references are funny

"What do ya mean, funny? I mean, funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you?  
I make you laugh... I'm here to f'n' amuse you? What do you mean  
funny, funny how? How am I funny?"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099685/

Laugh,

j



From dan at linder.org  Fri Dec 12 08:53:23 2008
From: dan at linder.org (Dan Linder)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:53:23 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Command SCP client for Windows
In-Reply-To: <7e84ed60812050101yc40c833qf41a334b0341e591@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3e2be50812040636h29065925x94bb33b38b96f15c@mail.gmail.com>
	<7e84ed60812050005x1a31e106w7fc2f3b10f503252@mail.gmail.com>
	<7e84ed60812050101yc40c833qf41a334b0341e591@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e2be50812120853s7f4228c5qbc82a719f62b0e67@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 3:01 AM, Rob Townley <rob.townley at gmail.com> wrote:

> "echo y | p:\psftp.cmd PASSWORD"
> p:\psftp.exe robertjtownley at web.sourceforge.net -pw %1 -bc -b
> p:\psftp.script
>

That solution works.  I remember trying this in UNIX and the "echo y | scp
..." doesn't take the "y", but the pscp/psftp under Windows do take them.

My work around to the Unix side will be to script the update of the
known_hosts file.

Thanks for the notes and assitance.

Dan

-- 
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" (Who can watch the watchmen?) -- from the
Satires of Juvenal
"I do not fear computers, I fear the lack of them." -- Isaac Asimov (Author)
** *** ***** ******* *********** *************
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From jay at jays.net  Sat Dec 13 05:01:16 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 07:01:16 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Perl student outreach
In-Reply-To: <200812111728.28167.enobacon@gmail.com>
References: <200812111728.28167.enobacon@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70BA9645-7B68-4854-84F5-91AA243E161D@jays.net>

On Dec 11, 2008, at 7:28 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> Hi Robert and Jay,
>
> I read about your recent lightning talks and I'm very interested in  
> what
> is going on with Perl at UNO and in Omaha (as both the president of
> pdx.pm and the Perl Foundation's administrator from Google's Summer of
> Code 2008.)

They're Robert's lightning talks. I'm just the de-facto Omaha Perl  
Mongers (Omaha.pm) group leader. Due to a work emergency, I didn't  
even show up. I'm a slacker.  :)

> Jay, how is the attendance of students (and professors?) at  
> Omaha.pm and
> other local user groups?  Is your group doing anything to engage with
> students?  Do you have any ideas about how .pm groups can do more to
> reach out to universities?

I am the only Perl-centric regular attendee of our monthly Omaha.pm  
meetings. We hold them in conjunction with the Omaha Dynamic Language  
Users Group (ODynUG), so average attendance is ~10 people, talking  
about many different languages. Several months a year I do Perl  
project status update lightning talks at those meetings, and have  
done full Perl presentations a couple times.

As a general rule, no students or faculty attend those meetings, even  
though they're held in the same room that some UNO computer  
programming classes are taught and are officially sponsored by a  
faculty member.

I'm under the impression that one UNO prof attends the Python users  
group.

As a general rule it appears to me the overlap between academia and  
user group attendance is near zero.

But this apathy is not unique to academia. I continue to be surprised  
by the number of working stiffs like me who use open source tools  
daily but have never attended any relevant user group. It is  
certainly not that we don't have enough groups:

    http://jays.net/wiki/Omaha_User_Groups

My best guess at the psychology at work is that, academia or not, by  
the end of a day people have had quite enough computer junk in their  
lives, thank you, and have priorities other than tacking on more non- 
mandated geek time.

I invite everyone that ever breathes the word "Perl" within ear shot  
of me to come to our meetings. (I hand out Omaha.pm business cards.)   
I've done nothing else to "engage the students" or "reach out to  
universities."

What more could be done?

     Perhaps nothing?

-shrug-

HTH,

j


From jay at jays.net  Mon Dec 15 05:06:02 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 07:06:02 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] GBrowse to the rescue again yesterday
Message-ID: <830D03A0-1732-4614-B051-5C2BD5878B62@jays.net>

BioPerl and GBrowse are neato.  :)

    http://clab.ist.unomaha.edu/CLAB/index.php/RT411
    Click the link in "Display of Search Result"

j



From jhannah at omnihotels.com  Tue Dec 16 15:25:07 2008
From: jhannah at omnihotels.com (Jay Hannah)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:25:07 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] silly warnings
Message-ID: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBB43@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>

Laugh... Can I complain about too-noisy warnings forcing me to clutter my code again? Or am I already over quota?  -laugh-
 
Original code:
 
   use warnings; 
   ...
   next if ($audit->{$date}->{$hotel} > 0);

Warning:
 
   Use of uninitialized value in numeric gt (>) at extract_launcher.pl line 192.

So now my code says this:
 
   next if ($audit->{$date} && $audit->{$date}->{$hotel} && $audit->{$date}->{$hotel} > 0);

Sigh...   :)
 
j
 
 
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From jhannah at omnihotels.com  Tue Dec 16 15:55:22 2008
From: jhannah at omnihotels.com (Jay Hannah)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:55:22 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] silly warnings
References: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBB43@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>
Message-ID: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBB44@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>

Bummer... Another one I have to code around:
 
   my ($prop, $asof) = split /\|/, (shift @tasks);
   last unless defined $prop;
   last unless defined $asof;

Use of uninitialized value in split at extract_launcher.pl line 49.

 
j
 
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From sterling at hanenkamp.com  Tue Dec 16 18:41:44 2008
From: sterling at hanenkamp.com (Sterling Hanenkamp)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:41:44 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] silly warnings
In-Reply-To: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBB43@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>
References: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBB43@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>
Message-ID: <c185b40e0812161841v4750deb8qfef459579aa01076@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Jay Hannah <jhannah at omnihotels.com> wrote:

>  Laugh... Can I complain about too-noisy warnings forcing me to clutter my
> code again? Or am I already over quota?  -laugh-
>
> Original code:
>
>    use warnings;
>    ...
>    next if ($audit->{$date}->{$hotel} > 0);
> Warning:
>
>    Use of uninitialized value in numeric gt (>) at extract_launcher.pl line
> 192.
> So now my code says this:
>
>    next if ($audit->{$date} && $audit->{$date}->{$hotel} &&
> $audit->{$date}->{$hotel} > 0);
> Sigh...   :)
>

I usually prefer:

next if ($audit->{$date}{$hotel} || 0) > 0;

or:

$audit->{$date}{$hotel} ||= 0;
next if $audit->{$date}{$hotel} > 0;

Cheers,
Sterling



>
> j
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Omaha-pm mailing list
> Omaha-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/omaha-pm
>
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From jay at jays.net  Wed Dec 17 04:41:52 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 06:41:52 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] silly warnings
In-Reply-To: <c185b40e0812161841v4750deb8qfef459579aa01076@mail.gmail.com>
References: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBB43@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>
	<c185b40e0812161841v4750deb8qfef459579aa01076@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8418B7F8-AB12-4F8D-BF65-D7023F3F12E5@jays.net>

On Dec 16, 2008, at 8:41 PM, Sterling Hanenkamp wrote:
>>    next if ($audit->{$date} && $audit->{$date}->{$hotel} && $audit- 
>> >{$date}->{$hotel} > 0);
>
>
> I usually prefer:
>
> next if ($audit->{$date}{$hotel} || 0) > 0;

!! Huh. That's an interesting side-step of the warning! Much shorter  
than mine. I like it! Thanks for the tip! :)

(I'm still bitter that you need a || 0 trick, though. -grin-)

j


$ cat j.pl
use warnings;
my $audit = {};
my $date = "20081217";
my $hotel = "ATLCNN";
# $audit->{$date}->{$hotel} = 7;
for (1) {
    next if (($audit->{$date}->{$hotel} || 0) > 0);
    print "no\n";
}

$ perl j.pl
no


From jay at jays.net  Mon Dec 22 14:42:43 2008
From: jay at jays.net (Jay Hannah)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:42:43 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Pure Perl ssh tunnel to MySQL
Message-ID: <EEE130FF-77FE-40A5-81CC-A38FB2ED7456@jays.net>

Never been in this spot before...

Need connectivity to a remote database, but port 3306 is blocked from  
remote machines (firewall). You can SSH tunnel your way around the  
firewall, so I'm giving that a stab in pure Perl. But this  
dependency / test failure tree is scary.   :)

http://deps.cpantesters.org/?module=Net::SSH::Perl;perl=latest

Maybe I'll try stunnel while CPAN runs...  :)

j


From jhannah at omnihotels.com  Wed Dec 31 11:49:16 2008
From: jhannah at omnihotels.com (Jay Hannah)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:49:16 -0600
Subject: [Omaha.pm] Perl 6 Hangman
Message-ID: <396CEDAA86B38646ACE2FEAA22C3FBF1EDBB88@l3exchange.omnihotels.net>

I'll have to check this out after $work   :)

   http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/38191 <http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/38191> 

j


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