From george at metaart.org Tue Nov 1 14:48:09 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 14:48:09 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Review of "Computer Privacy Annoyances" Message-ID: <200511011448.09476.george@metaart.org> There's a review of "Computer Privacy Annoyances" on our site at http://www.metaart.org/opug/reviews/privacyannoy.html should you wish to look at it. From george at metaart.org Thu Nov 3 11:22:14 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:22:14 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Reminder re "Iterating Infusion" Message-ID: <200511031122.14110.george@metaart.org> References for Iterating Infusion book: * Apress catalog entry. http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10006 * PDF for TOC+Intro which are "extracted (and mildly updated) from the book". http://www.metaart.org/opug/documents/infusion_intro.pdf == November Meeting The topic for the November meeting is OO. We'll at least talk about the Iterating Infusion book. The focus will be on the Introduction since that's available to everyone. == November Discussion on the Mailing List Greg Anthony (author of "Iterating Infusion: Clearer Views of Objects, Classes and Systems") will be a guest on the mailing list. The parameters are: * when start?: ? Sunday, November 13th * duration: ? one week * topic: ? objects, classes and systems * ground rules: ? ? ? ? + Ask questions on the topic. ? ? ? + Don't expect answers to Perl specific questions. George From george at metaart.org Fri Nov 4 15:11:27 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 15:11:27 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] [ii] "Iterating Infusion"? Message-ID: <200511041511.27782.george@metaart.org> References for Iterating Infusion book: * Apress catalog entry. http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10006 * PDF for TOC+Intro which are "extracted (and mildly updated) from the book". http://www.metaart.org/opug/documents/infusion_intro.pdf In preparation for our November (12th) meeting and the subsequent online discussion (13th-19th), I'm formulating a few questions on "Iterating Infusion: Clearer Views of Objects, Classes, and Systems". Here's my first: What does "Iterating Infusion" mean in the title? If you can shed some light on this, thanks. From george at metaart.org Fri Nov 4 16:36:46 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 16:36:46 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] [ii] "Views"? Message-ID: <200511041636.46649.george@metaart.org> References for Iterating Infusion book: * Apress catalog entry. http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10006 * PDF for TOC+Intro which are "extracted (and mildly updated) from the book". http://www.metaart.org/opug/documents/infusion_intro.pdf As I said earlier, I'm formulating questions re the book "Iterating Infusion: Clearer Views of Objects, Classes, and Systems". I'm still on the title. Next question: What is the significance of the title saying "Clearer Views" rather than "A Clearer View". As before, any light shed on this would be appreciated. George From george at metaart.org Sun Nov 6 00:19:43 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 00:19:43 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] November Meeting: Sat. Nov. 12 1-3pm Message-ID: <200511060019.43261.george@metaart.org> Snip from Home Page http://oakland.pm.org ------------------------------ Next meeting * when: 1-3pm, Saturday, Nov. 12th We meet each 2nd Saturday. * where: Grand Lake Neighborhood Center 530 Lake Park Ave., Oakland CA * directions: [link to] directions and ascii map * topic: OO * activities: o introductions o giveaways o short talks on the topic, discussion. * who: open to anyone interested. * how much: no fee for our meetings. However, the neighborhood center would appreciate (but does not require) a donation of $1 per person for the use of their space. * RSVP: is a big help to me but is not required. From george at metaart.org Sun Nov 6 00:38:27 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 00:38:27 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Some Ways to Contribute Page Message-ID: <200511060038.27914.george@metaart.org> Reference: http://www.metaart.org/opug/members/contribute.html I haven't updated this page for a long time. Anyone have suggestions for changes? Snip from Website ---------------------- Oakland Perl Mongers Some Ways to Contribute This is not intended to be an exhaustive list of ways to contribute, but perhaps it will give you some ideas. TMTOWTDI. Please choose only those ways that suit you. learning Expand your knowledge of: * Perl features * alternative ways to do things in Perl * various phases of Perl development * areas relevant to Perl by * reading a relevant book, article or whatever * going to a relevant presentation * developing a relevant program(s) meetings * come to a meeting(s). * order something to eat and/or order something to drink. * listen to speakers. * participate in discussions. * give somone a ride to or from the meeting. * bring giveaways to the meeting. * help coordinate a meeting. * give a lightning talk (under 5 minutes), a full length talk (1 1/2 hours) or something in between. mailing lists * subscribe to the mailing list. * introduce yourself on the list. * ask a Perl related question. * answer a Perl related question. * post something else Perl related. Note: Please take "Perl related" broadly. reviews * write a review of a book. * proof a review for a reviewer. * give other feedback to a reviewer. the web * have a member profile. * keep your member profile up to date. * let the webmaster know of broken links, spelling errors, etc. * create a CGI of interest to members and tell people about it. [top] Last Updated 2005-02-20 From george at metaart.org Tue Nov 8 16:45:23 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:45:23 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Reviews? Message-ID: <200511081645.23402.george@metaart.org> Reference: http://www.metaart.org/opug/reviews/reviews.html We are registered as a user group with three different publishers: * O'Reilly * Apress * Manning O'Reilly has partnerships with * No Starch * Paraglyph * Pragmatic * Sitepoint * Syngress If you wish to review a book published by any of the above likely I can get a review copy for you. Reviews are appreciated for Perl related books regardless of publisher. (Please take "Perl related" above very broadly.) Reviews are also appreciated for products, services or whatever (use your imagination). George From eugene at metaart.org Wed Nov 9 14:16:49 2005 From: eugene at metaart.org (Eugene) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:16:49 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Simple Question re Zapping Blanks Message-ID: <200511091416.49822.eugene@metaart.org> In Perl, what's the best way (or a good way, anyway) to zap leading and trailing blanks in a string? From mruggiero at formfactor.com Wed Nov 9 14:18:14 2005 From: mruggiero at formfactor.com (Michael Ruggiero) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:18:14 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Simple Question re Zapping Blanks Message-ID: <222EBC1FDB42814D9E2D4B5BAFDD21299F18E1@EMAIL.formfactor.com> #a regex wil work; #replace starting & ending spaces w/ nothing $string =~ s/^\s+//; $string =~ s/\s+$//; -----Original Message----- From: oakland-bounces at pm.org [mailto:oakland-bounces at pm.org] On Behalf Of Eugene Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 2:17 PM To: oakland at pm.org Subject: [oak perl] Simple Question re Zapping Blanks In Perl, what's the best way (or a good way, anyway) to zap leading and trailing blanks in a string? _______________________________________________ Oakland mailing list Oakland at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From kester at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 14:22:04 2005 From: kester at gmail.com (Kester Allen) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:22:04 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Simple Question re Zapping Blanks In-Reply-To: <200511091416.49822.eugene@metaart.org> References: <200511091416.49822.eugene@metaart.org> Message-ID: <55adb3190511091422u3d15f015gaa6a0f3d731fea3b@mail.gmail.com> My favorite is: $str =~ s/^\s+|\s+$//g; (substitute one or more leading whitespace chars OR one or more trailing chars with nothing). --Kester On 11/9/05, Eugene wrote: > In Perl, > what's the best way (or a good way, anyway) > to zap leading and trailing blanks in a string? > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > From eugene at metaart.org Thu Nov 10 12:06:44 2005 From: eugene at metaart.org (Eugene) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:06:44 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Simple Question re Zapping Blanks In-Reply-To: <222EBC1FDB42814D9E2D4B5BAFDD21299F18E1@EMAIL.formfactor.com> References: <222EBC1FDB42814D9E2D4B5BAFDD21299F18E1@EMAIL.formfactor.com> Message-ID: <200511101206.44683.eugene@metaart.org> Michael and Kester, Thanks for your responses. Eugene From george at metaart.org Thu Nov 10 12:43:44 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:43:44 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Two More Questions (oo,ii) Message-ID: <200511101243.44451.george@metaart.org> As you are likely aware, the topic for the November meeting is OO. Does anyone have good (or even bad) experiences with an Introduction to OO or for that matter with any other books, articles, etc. re OO? I also have a question that I'll direct to our soon to be guest: Have you or anyone else created an introduction to object orientation in which the principles have not been made too complex? (This question arises from the Introduction to the "Iterating Infusion" book. More specifically, see the start of the first two sentences of the part about Part I in the book.) From george at metaart.org Thu Nov 10 20:10:01 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:10:01 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Book for Banner Message-ID: <200511102010.01107.george@metaart.org> From time to time I get the opportunity to get an O'Reilly book for putting a banner on our site. Typically the books become part of the giveaway at our monthly meeting. Suggestions would be appreciated for books to get. <<<<<< From george at metaart.org Thu Nov 10 20:12:16 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:12:16 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, November 10 Message-ID: <200511102012.16371.george@metaart.org> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, November 10 Date: Thursday 10 November 2005 5:41 pm From: Marsee Henon ... ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members November 10, 2005 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for Photographers -Greasemonkey Hacks -Mac OS X Tiger in a Nutshell -Windows XP for Starters: The Missing Manual -C++ Cookbook -Integrating Excel and Access -Just Say No To Microsoft -Excel for Starters: The Missing Manual -Photoshop Elements 4: The Missing Manual -Creating Web Sites: The Missing Manual -Oracle PL/SQL for DBAs -Access 2003 for Starters: The Missing Manual -Photoshop Photo Effects Cookbook -Unix in a Nutshell, Fourth Edition -Programming ASP.NET, Third Edition -Palm and Treo Hacks -Photoshop Filter Effects Encyclopedia -Photoshop Blending Modes Cookbook for Digital Photographers ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -ETel Registration Now Open -EuroOSCON in Amsterdam ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -The Impact of "Ambient Findability" -Laughing Lemur Contest at Findability.org -Avoiding Oblivion in Your Tech Career -Control Freaks: Modding and the Clash with Law -User Group Members receive a special 50% discount on Learning Lab Courses -MySQL 5.0 is Released -What Is TurboGears (Hint: Python-Based Framework for Rapid Web Development) -What Is a Linux Distribution -Sync Services Framework (How It Works and What You Can Do) -Tiger's Improved Firewall (and How to Use It) -Windows Server Hacks: Shadowing Remote Desktop Sessions -Beware of Network Sniffers -JBoss Cache as a POJO Cache -Take Command With AJAX -The Community of Web 2.0 -MacVoices Features Leander Kahney "The Cult of iPod" -Vince Lawrence: 8,000 Square Feet of iTunes -The PEZ MP3 player--A Project, Dream, and a Reality -Give the Gift of MAKE Magazine--Special Offer for UG Members ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? Ask your group leader for more information. For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: Don't forget, you can receive 30% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at least $29.95 that go to a single address. This offer applies to US delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico. For more details, go to: ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for Photographers Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100183 In the world of digital photography, Digital Asset Management (DAM) refers to every part of the process that follows the taking of the picture, through final output and permanent storage. Anyone who shoots, scans, or stores digital photographs is practicing some form of DAM, but most of us are not doing so systematically or efficiently. In "The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for Photographers," photographer Peter Krogh presents a solid plan and practical advice on how to file, find, protect, and re-use photographs, focusing on best practices for digital photographers using Adobe Photoshop CS2. ***Greasemonkey Hacks Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101651 Greasemonkey--the new Firefox extension that allows you to write scripts that alter the web pages you visit--allows you to alter site appearance, fix bugs, or even combine data from different web sites to meet your own needs. Some people are content to receive information from web sites passively; some people want to control it. For those who prefer to customize and control their content, "Greasemonkey Hacks" provides the expertise you need to take command of any web page you view. ***Mac OS X Tiger in a Nutshell Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0-596-00943-7 For consumers, developers, and programmers alike, the up-to-the-minute "Mac OS X Tiger in a Nutshell" provides the perfect overview of Tiger. ***Windows XP for Starters: The Missing Manual Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101554 For anyone interested in zeroing in on just the information they need without all the complicated jargon, "Windows XP for Starters: The Missing Manual" provides just the solution. With easy-to-follow, step-by-step instructions, and plenty of illustrations this book offers a refreshingly simple approach to XP. Whether you're a first-time user who just wants the basics, or an experienced user who simply needs a quick overview, our new "Windows XP For Starters: Missing Manual" is designed to deliver what you need to know. ***C++ Cookbook Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007612 Less a tutorial than a problem-solver, this practical guide shows you how to solve many of the real-world problems that C++ developers encounter, including how to parse a date and time string and how to create a singleton class. It's a trusted source of information for engineers, programmers, and researchers alike, presented in O'Reilly's classic question-solution-discussion format. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/cplusplusckbk/ Chapter 10, "Streams and Files," is available online: ***Integrating Excel and Access Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596009739 This unique reference shows you how to combine the powerful analysis tools of Excel with the structured storage and more powerful querying of Access. It covers everything you need to know, including interfaces, object models, and code. Learn how to crunch and visualize data like never before. Perfect for all Microsoft Office users. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/integratingea/ Chapter 3, "Data Access from Excel VBA," is available online: ***Just Say No To Microsoft Publisher: No Starch Press ISBN: 159327064X Just Say No to Microsoft begins by tracing Microsoft's rise from tiny startup to monopolistic juggernaut and explains how the company's practices have discouraged innovation, stunted competition, and helped foster an environment ripe for viruses, bugs and hackers. Readers learn how they can dump Microsoft products and continue to be productive. Includes full explanations of alternate operating systems, such as Linux and Mac, and outlines various software applications that can replace the familiar Microsoft products. ***Excel for Starters: The Missing Manual Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101546 "Excel for Starters: The Missing Manual" gives you the information you need to make Excel do exactly what you want. Clear explanations (with lots of examples), illustrations, timesaving advice, and step-by-step instructions guide you through the most useful features of Excel 2002 and 2003--including how to build spreadsheets, add and format information, print reports, create charts and graphics, and use basic formulas and functions. Chapter 2, "Adding Information to Worksheets," is available online: ***Photoshop Elements 4: The Missing Manual Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101589 With "Photoshop Elements 4: The Missing Manual," author Barbara Brundage has written the perfect digital photography guide that covers new features and techniques--for the most common editing solutions to the more advanced. In a clear, easy-to-read format, the author provides step-by-step instructions so readers can learn the right editing techniques for producing and sharing beautiful digital photography. ***Creating Web Sites: The Missing Manual Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596008422 Think you have to be a technical wizard to build a great web site? Think again. For anyone who wants to create an engaging web site--for either personal or business purposes--"Creating Web Sites: The Missing Manual" demystifies the process and provides tools, techniques, and expert guidance for making your ideas and vision a reality with a professional and reliable web presence. Chapter 6, "Style Sheets," is available online: ***Oracle PL/SQL for DBAs Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596005873 PL/SQL, Oracle's powerful procedural language, has been the cornerstone of Oracle application development for nearly 15 years. Although primarily a tool for developers, PL/SQL has also become an essential tool for database administration. DBAs who have not yet discovered how helpful PL/SQL can be will find this book a superb introduction to the language and its special database administration features. Even if you have used PL/SQL for years, you'll find the detailed coverage in this book to be an invaluable resource. ***Access 2003 for Starters: The Missing Manual Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596006659 "Access 2003 for Starters: The Missing Manual" delivers everything you need to use Access right away. The quick and painless way to learn how to put the world's most popular desktop data management program to work for you, this book explains all the most useful features of Access 2003--including designing and creating databases, organizing and filtering information, and generating effective forms and reports. ***Photoshop Photo Effects Cookbook Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100221 You don't have to be a Photoshop expert to create sophisticated effects. With 61 easy-to-follow recipes, "Photoshop Photo Effects Cookbook" shows you how to use Photoshop CS2 to simulate classic camera and darkroom techniques and special effects-without making you learn Photoshop inside and out first. This book is packed with hundreds of full-color photographs, step-by-step instructions, and many practical tips. ***Unix in a Nutshell, Fourth Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100299 This quick reference has been reworked to present you with the current state of Unix. Featuring chapter overviews, in-depth command coverage, and specific examples, it's the perfect supplement for Unix users and programmers. New topics include package management programs, source code management systems, and the Solaris 10, GNU/Linux, and Mac OS X systems. Chapter 16, "The GNU make Utility," is available online: ***Programming ASP.NET, Third Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059600916X This updated bestseller has been completely refreshed to give you the inside story on ASP.NET 2.0 and Visual Studio 2005. It features a comprehensive tutorial on Web Forms and detailed explanations of all new Web server, HTML, and custom controls. Ideal for web developers looking to create dynamic, interactive web applications. ***Palm and Treo Hacks Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059610054X Written for beginning to experienced Palm users, "Palm and Treo Hacks" is full of practical, ingenious tips and tricks you can apply immediately. Whether you're looking to master the built-in applications or you want to trick out your Palm to its fullest extent, this book will show you how. Sample Hacks such as "Get the Most Out of the To Do List" and "Use Your Treo as a Modem," are available online: ***Photoshop Filter Effects Encyclopedia Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100213 "Photoshop Filter Effects Encyclopedia" explains and decodes the settings of every filter that Photoshop CS2 has to offer. And, unlike many reference books, it is filled with easy-to-follow, step-by-step recipes for creating truly amazing effects using Photoshop filters. Packed with hundreds of full-color photographs, clearly written instructions, and practical tips, this book is the ultimate, no-nonsense Photoshop CS2 Filters reference for creative photographers, designers, and artists. ***Photoshop Blending Modes Cookbook for Digital Photographers Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100205 Layer blending modes have been part of Photoshop for years, but they're not easy to understand at first glance. With clear, step-by-step instructions, an easy-to-follow format, and hundreds of full-color examples, "Photoshop Blending Modes Cookbook for Digital Photographers" shows you how to use blending modes to achieve a wide range of image adjustments and special effects-without first having to learn everything there is to know about Photoshop. ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***ETel Registration Now Open Emerging telephony networks enable a new generation of powerful communication applications, which threaten established business models--but more importantly, open up new opportunities and new markets. O'Reilly's Emerging Telephony Conference, January 24-26 in San Francisco, aims to articulate this revolution, provide a framework, and spark creative discussions among enterprise managers, developers, hackers, and sponsors interested in telephony. Join us as we explore this exciting new territory and investigate its implications. Receive 20% off the registration price when you use our special discount code. Please email marsee at oreilly.com for details. To register for the conference, go to: ***EuroOSCON has come and gone in Amsterdam It was a great experience and attendee comments ranged from "wonderful" to "I'll be back again next year!" OSCON will definitely be back in Europe next fall, as well as in Portland in July. Check out the Convention Coverage Page for all the latest session files pictures and news. ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- General News --------------------- ***The Impact of "Ambient Findability" Peter Morville, author of "Ambient Findability," discusses the results of being able to find anything from anywhere at anytime, thanks to ubiquitous computing and the Net in this Business Week article. ***Laughing Lemur Contest at Findability.org To enter, snap a photo that includes the lemur, upload it to Flickr, and tag it with ambientfindability. Entries will be accepted through December 11, 2005. Evaluation criteria include popularity (in Flickr, Google, de.licio.us), comicality (make the lemur laugh), and other facets of the user experience. The winner will receive a $500 Amazon Gift Certificate, a $100 O'Reilly Gift Certificate, and autographed copies of the lemur and polar bear books. For contest details and rules, please go to: ***Avoiding Oblivion in Your Tech Career Life moves quickly for the technologist, so it's imperative to stay young and vital in one's tech career. Using the analogy of Shakespeare's renowned soliloquy from As You Like It on the seven phases of life, Michael Havey offers tips on how you can sustain technology excellence well into your golden years. Michael is the author of "Essential Business Process Modeling." ***Control Freaks: Modding and the Clash with Law Modders, and the millions more who possess a natural creativity and an urge to get control over their lives, have, as Andy Oram puts it, "tumbled head-on into a legal snake pit." Their passion for changing things has become one of the fastest up-and-coming social trends in the US, and thus has drawn the litigious eye of large entertainment and media companies. Andy remains optimistic, however, that modders themselves can find ways to shift the focus away from modding as a legal issue, and toward a view of modding as a social and business issue. ***User Group Members receive a special 50% discount on Learning Lab Courses As an O'Reilly User Group member, you save on all the courses in the following University of Illinois Certificate Series: -Linux/Unix System Administration -Web Programming -Open Source Programming -.NET Programming -Client-Side This offer ends December 31st, 2005. To redeem, use Promotion Code "ORALL1" to save 50%. Each course comes with a free O'Reilly book and a 7-day money-back guarantee. Register online: --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***MySQL 5.0 is Released Kevin Yank goes over the new release of MySQL, the ever popular open-source database software, and what new features it contains. ***What Is TurboGears? (Hint: Python-Based Framework for Rapid Web Development) TurboGears is a Python-based framework that enables you to quickly build database-driven, ready-to-extend web applications. In this article, Matthew Russell takes you inside this framework for a look at its internal mechanisms, then introduces you to its creator, Kevin Dangoor. ***What Is a Linux Distribution? The Linux kernel may be the star of the show, but like any star, it needs a supporting cast. In this case, the supporting cast is known as a Linux distribution--a useful set of system and application programs bundled with the OS. Edd Dumbill serves up overviews of the major Linux distributions as well as the specialist distros, and for who (or what) each distro is best suited. --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***Sync Services Framework (How It Works and What You Can Do) With Tiger, Apple introduced a new extensible Sync Services framework embedded into the OS. And it's available to any application, not just Apple programs. Mary Norbury-Glaser explains this framework and shows you practical examples of its implementation. ***Tiger's Improved Firewall (and How to Use It) Among Tiger's many enhancements, Apple introduced a whole new firewall called ipfw2. It works just the like the old firewall, but has new features that allow greater flexibility and more control. In this article, Peter Hickman shows you some of the new features and how you can use them to more easily manage your firewall. --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***Windows Server Hacks: Shadowing Remote Desktop Sessions Shadowing Terminal Services sessions is a cool feature of Windows Server 2003 that lets you remotely control the desktop session of another Terminal Services user. ***Beware of Network Sniffers Network sniffing is harder than most people think, but that doesn't mean it's not a threat. Mitch Tulloch, author of "Windows Server Hacks," tells you the truth about sniffing dangers, and shows you how to protect your network. --------------------- Java --------------------- ***JBoss Cache as a POJO Cache Typical in-memory cache systems can trip you up in ways you don't expect, from mangled object relationships to overly expensive serialization operations. A POJO cache offers a simpler, lower-maintenance alternative. Ben Wang uses JBoss Cache to show how POJO caches work. ***Take Command With AJAX Want to get a bang out of your AJAX artillery? In this hands-on tutorial, Stoyan puts AJAX on the front line as he develops a web app with which you can execute shell commands on your web server. The downloadable code provides a real tactical advantage as Stoyan marshals JavaScript and XML to create the application. ***The Community of Web 2.0 In this 48-minute audio program from the Web 2.0 conference, Tim O'Reilly speaks with Sun Microsystems COO Jonathan Schwartz and Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker about developer communities, distribution, architectures and expandability, and the value of open source. --------------------- Digital Media --------------------- ***MacVoices Features Leander Kahney "The Cult of iPod" No Starch Author Leander Kahney discusses the impact of the iPod and how it has changed the music industry, the music culture and how music is consumed. ***Vince Lawrence: 8,000 Square Feet of iTunes Step inside the cavernous studio of Chicago's Slang Musicgroup, where teams of computer-packing producers create hit songs and remixes in a vast range of styles???inspired by 20,000 CDs worth of networked iTunes. --------------------- MAKE --------------------- ***The PEZ MP3 player--A Project, Dream, and a Reality Pat Misterovich is a stay-at-home dad with a one-person company who had a dream to make an MP3 player that looks like a PEZ dispenser. We've been covering Pat's PEZ MP3 player throughout the year, reading his progress and milestones, anxiously awaiting the arrival of this dream-turned-PEZ MP3 player. Sample Projects from MAKE: ***Give the Gift of MAKE Magazine--Special Offer for UG Members Give the geek on your list a truly unique gift this holiday season-- their very own subscription to MAKE magazine. MAKE is the first magazine devoted to digital projects, hardware hacks, and DIY inspiration. Each issue brings the do-it-yourself mindset to all the technology in your life. You have a choice: Give a gift for $5 off the regular gift subscription rate--$29.95 (US), $34.95 (Canada), $44.95 (all other countries): Or place your gift order at the regular price $34.95 (US), $39.95 (Canada), $49.95 (all other countries)--and get a MAKE T-shirt free. ***Please note gift postcards and MAKE vol 4 will begin mailing on 12/9/05, orders received after 12/9/05 and non-US orders may not arrive in time for the holiday season. Your recipient(s) will receive the opportunity to add digital access to their subscription. All MAKE T-shirts will ship to your billing address. To order multiple orders for multiple countries, please contact customer service at 1-866-289-8847 (US & Canada), 1-818-487-2037 (all other countries) between the hours of 5am and 5pm Pacific time or Email: MAKE at espcomp.com ================================================ From Your Peers ================================================ ***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups around the globe are up to: Until next time-- Marsee Henon ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com ================================================================ ------------------------------------------------------- From mp at rawbw.com Thu Nov 10 21:44:06 2005 From: mp at rawbw.com (Michael Paoli) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:44:06 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] San Francisco: 2005-11-15 7:00-9:30 PM more on Shell Programming, etc. by Michael Paoli [at Bay Area Linux Users Group (BALUG)] Message-ID: <1131687846.43742fa6daca6@webmail.rawbw.com> FYI, for those that may be interested, I'll be doing a bit of a follow-up/follow-on from last month's presentation on Shell Programming this coming Tuesday evening. This will be mostly interactive question and answer on Shell Programming, and examples and mini-demonstrations. Whether you made it to the October meeting or not, if you would like to ask Shell Programming questions, see demonstrations, examples, etc. this should make for a useful and informative meeting. There will probably also be a quite short (estimated <~= 15 minutes) presentation/demonstration of a bit of FVWM's capabilities and such. When: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:00 PM-9:30 PM PST Where: 3rd Floor Banquet Facility: "The China Room", Four Seas Restaurant, 731 Grant Ave. (at Clay), San Francisco, CA 94108-2113, 1-415-989-8188 Lots more details (including dinner cost, etc.) may be found here: http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-announce-balug.org/2005-November/000052.html From mp at rawbw.com Fri Nov 11 12:29:59 2005 From: mp at rawbw.com (Michael Paoli) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:29:59 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] OPUG at BaySUG '05 In-Reply-To: <200510281401.39380.george@metaart.org> References: <200508081948.27544.george@metaart.org> <200510271746.28386.george@metaart.org> <1130491147.4361ed0b4a8a0@webmail.rawbw.com> <200510281401.39380.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <1131740999.4374ff4719610@webmail.rawbw.com> Anyway, let me know if there's anything in particular you'd like me to do, ask, provide input/feedback on, gather information on, etc. regarding OPUG at BaySUG '05, as I will be attending BaySUG '05. references/excerpts: http://www.usenix.org/events/baysug05/ Quoting George Woolley : > Michael, > == representing OPUG > Oh good, you are going to the BaySUG event > and are willing to represent OPUG. > Please do so. > I think you'd be a good person to represent us. > In any case, it may well be you or noone. > What's representing us mean in this context? > I'd say two things: > (1) Be there representing OPUG as an indication of support. > (2) Alert us if there are significant outcomes > that we should know about. > If you are wanting to do more than that, please say so. > On Friday 28 October 2005 2:19 am, Michael Paoli wrote: > > George, > > I can certainly also represent or cover for OPUG, if there isn't someone > > else available that you'd rather have cover it (the day and time of the > > BaySUG '05 and OPUG meetings do conflict). > > > > references/excerpts: > > http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/2005-October/001682.html > > > > Quoting George Woolley: > > > Michael, > > > You are the only person from our group > > > I'm aware of who might be going. From george at metaart.org Fri Nov 11 12:57:00 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:57:00 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] OPUG at BaySUG '05 In-Reply-To: <1131740999.4374ff4719610@webmail.rawbw.com> References: <200508081948.27544.george@metaart.org> <200510281401.39380.george@metaart.org> <1131740999.4374ff4719610@webmail.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <200511111257.00905.george@metaart.org> Hi Michael, Glad you're going to BaySUG '05. I have no specific requests for you. I just request that you > > (1) Be there representing OPUG as an indication of support. > > (2) Alert us if there are significant outcomes > > that we should know about. On the latter, I'm happy to go with your take at the time on what are "significant outcomes that we should know about". Hm, perhaps someone else has suggestions. [Anyone: Other suggestions?] George On Friday 11 November 2005 12:29 pm, Michael Paoli wrote: > Anyway, let me know if there's anything in particular you'd like me to do, > ask, provide input/feedback on, gather information on, etc. regarding OPUG > at BaySUG '05, as I will be attending BaySUG '05. > > references/excerpts: > http://www.usenix.org/events/baysug05/ > > Quoting George Woolley : > > Michael, > > == representing OPUG > > Oh good, you are going to the BaySUG event > > and are willing to represent OPUG. > > Please do so. > > I think you'd be a good person to represent us. > > In any case, it may well be you or noone. > > What's representing us mean in this context? > > I'd say two things: > > (1) Be there representing OPUG as an indication of support. > > (2) Alert us if there are significant outcomes > > that we should know about. > > If you are wanting to do more than that, please say so. > > > > On Friday 28 October 2005 2:19 am, Michael Paoli wrote: > > > George, > > > I can certainly also represent or cover for OPUG, if there isn't > > > someone else available that you'd rather have cover it (the day and > > > time of the BaySUG '05 and OPUG meetings do conflict). > > > > > > references/excerpts: > > > http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/2005-October/001682.html > > > > > > Quoting George Woolley: > > > > Michael, > > > > You are the only person from our group > > > > I'm aware of who might be going. From george at metaart.org Fri Nov 11 18:15:50 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:15:50 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Oakland.pm Meeting: 1-3pm Sat., Nov. 12 Message-ID: <200511111815.50479.george@metaart.org> See some of you tomorrow (Saturday) at the meeting. George snip from home page http://oakland.pm.org ...................................... Next meeting * when: 1-3pm, Saturday, Nov. 12th We meet each 2nd Saturday. * where: Grand Lake Neighborhood Center 530 Lake Park Ave., Oakland CA * directions: [link to] directions and ascii map * topic: OO * activities: o introductions o giveaways o short talks on the topic, discussion. * who: open to anyone interested. * how much: no fee for our meetings. However, the neighborhood center would appreciate (but does not require) a donation of $1 per person for the use of their space. * RSVP: is a big help to me but is not required. From george at metaart.org Sun Nov 13 12:20:32 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:20:32 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Guest on Mailing List Message-ID: <200511131220.32066.george@metaart.org> Links for Iterating Infusion book: * Apress catalog entry. http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10006 * PDF for TOC+Intro which are "extracted (and mildly updated) from the book". http://www.metaart.org/opug/documents/infusion_intro.pdf Starting today Greg Anthony, author of "Iterating Infusion: Clearer Views of Objects, Classes, and Systems", is a guest on our mailing list for a week. The parameters as I understand them are as follows: * when start? ? Sunday, November 13th (i.e. today) * duration: ? one week * topic: ? objects, classes and systems * ground rules: ? ? ? ? + Ask questions on the topic. ? ? ? + Don't expect answers to ? ? ? ? ?Perl specific questions. Here's a few things about Greg, extracted from the "About the Author" page of the book: * is a near life-long systems analyst. * is an alumnus of the Center for Talented Youth of Johns Hopkins University. * has been designing and programming software since he was 8. * has been doing that professionally since he was 12. * has over 15 years of experience. * has worked in all areas of development and systems management. * has consulted re environments from PC to mid-range to mainframe. * has created utilites such as code generators, code analyzers, version-control facilities. Greg: Please feel free to add to or correct as desired. Welcome Greg! Anyone: Questions? From george at metaart.org Sun Nov 13 19:06:52 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:06:52 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] [ii] Object Orientation Introduction Message-ID: <200511131906.52484.george@metaart.org> Hm, Greg Anthony officially became a guest on the list today, so I suppose I should repeat my question for him from the 10th: Have you or anyone else created an introduction to object orientation in which the principles have not been made too complex? (This question arises from the Introduction to the "Iterating Infusion" book. More specifically, see the start of the first two sentences of the part about Part I in the book.) George From joshnjillwait at yahoo.com Tue Nov 15 10:55:37 2005 From: joshnjillwait at yahoo.com (Joshua Wait) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:55:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [oak perl] Review of JavaScript: The Definitive Guide Message-ID: <20051115185537.56583.qmail@web53706.mail.yahoo.com> George recently asked the group for reviews. Since it's not exactly Perl related, I'm posting this review of "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide" for those of you who are using Perl for web development and may also need an understanding of JavaScript. --JOSHUA REVIEW ------ "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide" is not a step by step guide to JavaScript any more than an encyclopedia is a step by step guide. The book does provide an authoritative analysis of the language including a brief history of the language, data types, operators, statements, functions, objects, and arrays. The author does a good job of addressing some of the assumptions of the language and how these assumptions may or may not be like other languages such as C++ or Java. The author also clarifies the different levels of support for certain aspects of the language both within the discussion and with the large JavaScript reference section. The book also provides a handy and thorough W3C DOM reference for working with various aspects of DHTML. Some of the material in this book will provide a critical understanding to JavaScript's more advanced features. With the emergence of AJAX, many web developers are turning to JavaScript to provide solutions for dynamic web based applications. Now that JavaScript is more fully supported in modern browsers, web developers may want to turn to "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide" to enhance or polish existing JavaScript skills. If you are looking for a quick introduction to JavaScript, you may find yourself disappointed. However, if you are already familiar with JavaScript and need a reference to look up an answer to your problem or need a guide for fine tuning your DHTML skills, you may that this book is a rich resource for you. --------------------- ArcSource Consulting "Providing Computer Support in the San Francisco Bay Area" http://www.arcsource.net __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From george at metaart.org Tue Nov 15 12:55:08 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:55:08 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Review of JavaScript: The Definitive Guide In-Reply-To: <20051115185537.56583.qmail@web53706.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051115185537.56583.qmail@web53706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200511151255.08806.george@metaart.org> Hi Joshua, Thanks for posting your review to the list! George :) :) :) :) On Tuesday 15 November 2005 10:55 am, Joshua Wait wrote: > George recently asked the group for reviews. Since > it's not exactly Perl related, I'm posting this review > of "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide" for those of you > who are using Perl for web development and may also > need an understanding of JavaScript. > > --JOSHUA > > REVIEW > ------ > > "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide" is not a step by > step guide to JavaScript any more than an encyclopedia > is a step by step guide. The book does provide an > authoritative analysis of the language including a > brief history of the language, data types, operators, > statements, functions, objects, and arrays. > > The author does a good job of addressing some of the > assumptions of the language and how these assumptions > may or may not be like other languages such as C++ or > Java. The author also clarifies the different levels > of support for certain aspects of the language both > within the discussion and with the large JavaScript > reference section. The book also provides a handy and > thorough W3C DOM reference for working with various > aspects of DHTML. > > Some of the material in this book will provide a > critical understanding to JavaScript's more advanced > features. With the emergence of AJAX, many web > developers are turning to JavaScript to provide > solutions for dynamic web based applications. Now that > JavaScript is more fully supported in modern browsers, > web developers may want to turn to "JavaScript: The > Definitive Guide" to enhance or polish existing > JavaScript skills. > > If you are looking for a quick introduction to > JavaScript, you may find yourself disappointed. > However, if you are already familiar with JavaScript > and need a reference to look up an answer to your > problem or need a guide for fine tuning your DHTML > skills, you may that this book is a rich resource for you. > > --------------------- > ArcSource Consulting > "Providing Computer Support in the San Francisco Bay Area" > http://www.arcsource.net > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From zed.lopez at gmail.com Tue Nov 15 22:44:00 2005 From: zed.lopez at gmail.com (Zed Lopez) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:44:00 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Draft Review of Programming Ruby Message-ID: <83a996de0511152244v1c6f6189j95815ef91c270a99@mail.gmail.com> Hi folks, This is a draft of my review of Programming Ruby, which I've owed George for too long. Please let me know any comments you might have. Programming Ruby, second edition by Dave Thomas with Chad Fowler and Andy Hunt When Dave Thomas and Andy Hunt, authors of The Pragmatic Programmer, published the first edition of Programming Ruby in 2000, it was the first English language Ruby book. Ruby documentation was so scant that they had to study the source code to do it, as Ruby's author, Matz, explains in his foreword. For 2005, they revised it to cover Ruby 1.8, the latest major release. Though there are now several other Ruby books, Programming Ruby is still trying to do it all -- language tutorial, language reference, a guide to thinking in Ruby (which includes thinking in objects), and an introduction to the Ruby community's conventions. The book's broader than it is deep, but, given its breadth, that's praising with faint damns. It's not a book for a programming novice, but the language tutorial was thorough and clear. Moderately experienced programmers should have no problems with it. If you've done object-oriented and functional programming before, it'll be easy going. I was impressed by how the book includes what you need to actually _develop_ in Ruby -- trying code snippets in the interactive Ruby shell, debugging, watching out for Ruby's gotchas, developing a test suite, documenting (in Rdoc, a Ruby standard), packaging code into a Ruby Gem (RubyGems is Ruby's equivalent to Perl's CPAN), profiling your code to find the slow parts, and how to extend Ruby in C to speed them up. There's a brief survey of Ruby's standard classes for web programming, Tk, and the Windows API. The book's breadth exceeding its depth is most obvious here -- for instance, 18 pages on web programming doesn't just cover basic CGI, but touches on cookies, session maintenance, two template systems for HTML generation, eruby (a means of embedding Ruby in HTML, like PHP, Mason, PSP, or any of the other *SPs), SOAP, WSDL, and the Google API. (Ruby on Rails is only mentioned as a framework "currently attracting mindshare in the Ruby community.") For all their brevity, these chapters were useful. First, they're a starting point for learning available tools for those problem domains. More importantly, they demonstrate the breadth of the standard library and other available packages, and provide a lesson in looking for existing solutions first. That's old hat to people used to the open source world, but that's not everyone -- there are programmers for whom it's still a radical concept. Almost half the book is a reference to the built-in classes and modules, and to the standard library. Ruby has dozens of built-in classes, each, typically, with dozens of methods, so it's no surprise that a lot of information went unmentioned in the language tutorial and is only to be found here. In my use of the reference so far, I've found it clear and well-organized. Perl played a substantial part in inspiring Ruby. Likewise, it struck me that Programming Ruby explicitly took some inspiration from Programming Perl. It's even nicknamed for its cover illustration -- the PickAxe Book. Like the Camel Book does with Perl, the PickAxe Book goes beyond the language at hand to advance principles of good programming, like code reuse, writing for maintainability, and avoiding reinventing the wheel. And it's all written with an infectiously joyful spirit of programming being fun (and all without reliance upon, say, grafting Monty Python references onto the code samples.) This book left me excited about the prospect of programming in Ruby (and feeling capable of it.) What more could I want? From george at metaart.org Wed Nov 16 17:10:37 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:10:37 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Draft Review of Programming Ruby In-Reply-To: <83a996de0511152244v1c6f6189j95815ef91c270a99@mail.gmail.com> References: <83a996de0511152244v1c6f6189j95815ef91c270a99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200511161710.37158.george@metaart.org> Earlier, I thanked Zed for this review off-list, but I also wanted to thank Zed publicly. So here goes. Zed, thank you for your efforts on this thoughtful review of a book on a language closely related to Perl. For the record, I wish to point out Zed said up front that he'd take a really long time in creating this review. I'm neither surprised nor disappointed with the progress on it. I look forward to putting it on our website when Zed signs off on it. George =============================================== On Tuesday 15 November 2005 10:44 pm, Zed Lopez wrote: > Hi folks, > > This is a draft of my review of Programming Ruby, which I've owed > George for too long. Please let me know any comments you might have. > > Programming Ruby, second edition by Dave Thomas with Chad Fowler and Andy > Hunt ... From george at metaart.org Thu Nov 17 01:57:26 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:57:26 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Review of JavaScript: The Definitive Guide In-Reply-To: <20051115185537.56583.qmail@web53706.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051115185537.56583.qmail@web53706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200511170157.26441.george@metaart.org> Joshua: Thanks! -- George All: Joshua's review is now on our site at http://www.metaart.org/opug/reviews/jscript4.html Anyone else wish to do a review? -- George From george at metaart.org Mon Nov 21 11:59:06 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:59:06 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: O'Reilly looking for UG Podcasts to Feature Online Message-ID: <200511211159.06461.george@metaart.org> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: O'Reilly looking for UG Podcasts to Feature Online Date: Monday 21 November 2005 9:35 am From: Marsee Henon ... Hello-- I wanted to pass along the following news: Daniel Steinberg has been working on podcasting for O'Reilly and he called to let me know about two ways in which user group members might want to get involved. First, if you have your own podcast, let us know about it and we will link to it and feature your shows from time to time on our podcasting home page (http://www.oreillynet.com/podcasts). Also, if you have an interesting speaker coming up, you might want to do an interview and submit it for inclusion in our magazine show "Distributing the Future" (http://www.oreillynet.com/future). In any case, if you have interesting ideas for how you might want to contribute to O'Reilly podcasting, send Daniel an email at daniel at oreilly.com. Thanks for your help, Marsee Henon ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com ================================================================ ------------------------------------------------------- From george at metaart.org Tue Nov 22 11:36:19 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:36:19 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Change from Regular to Occasional Meetings Message-ID: <200511221136.19451.george@metaart.org> Starting next year, i.e. starting January 2006, I am planning to organize Oakland.pm meetings only when there is a special reason to have them, e,g. if we have an outside speaker. I do not anticipate significant changes in other user group activities. If someone wishes to start another East Bay group, I will be happy to assist you in getting started and also coordinate activities with you. For example, if someone wishes to start up Berkeley.pm, I will be happy to assist you in getting started and to coordinate meetings and such with you. Please feel free to contact me, if you are considering starting an East Bay Perl group. From george at metaart.org Fri Nov 25 11:22:37 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:22:37 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Review of Programming Ruby - on our site Message-ID: <200511251122.37268.george@metaart.org> Zed Lopez's review of "Programming Ruby" is on our site at: http://www.metaart.org/opug/reviews/pragmatic_ruby2.html It's no longer a draft. George From george at metaart.org Sat Nov 26 13:11:55 2005 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:11:55 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Review of "Ambient Findabiity" Message-ID: <200511261311.55863.george@metaart.org> There's a review of "Ambient Findability" on our site at: http://www.metaart.org/opug/reviews/ambient.html should you wish to read it. Comments, corrections, etc. would be appreciated. George From eugene at metaart.org Sun Nov 27 21:00:15 2005 From: eugene at metaart.org (Eugene) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:00:15 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Test Message-ID: <200511272100.15709.eugene@metaart.org> Please ignore this test. (I'm having some strange problems.) From eugene at metaart.org Sun Nov 27 21:03:47 2005 From: eugene at metaart.org (Eugene) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:03:47 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Requests for Advise: Perl CGI or PHP? Message-ID: <200511271911.27277.eugene@metaart.org> I'm thinking of upgrading my personal website, mostly to make it easier to maintain. I want to do this upgrade now while the site is small. Initially, I'll likely focus on header information and navigation. I'm considering using either Perl CGI or PHP as the basis for my upgrade. Later, I don't know exactly what I'll want to do. However, whatever I do will likely be simple. For example, I do not expect to need to interface with a database. == Requests <<<<<< (1) I'd appreciate your thoughts on whether Perl CGI and PHP are reasonable choices. (2) If you feel they are reasonable choices, I'd appreciate any insights that might assist me in choosing between them. Thanks, Eugene P.S. So far, there's not much on my site, though, at least, there are no under construction signs. If you feel it would be useful to look at what I've created so far, there is a link to my personal site in my profile on the Oakland.pm site. From zed.lopez at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 23:27:22 2005 From: zed.lopez at gmail.com (Zed Lopez) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:27:22 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Requests for Advise: Perl CGI or PHP? In-Reply-To: <200511271911.27277.eugene@metaart.org> References: <200511271911.27277.eugene@metaart.org> Message-ID: <83a996de0511272327h4c86ef1fv22d353fc935673d9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Eugene, With the sole exception of an application to be distributed to users in hosted environments, which tend to have mod_php installed a lot more often than mod_perl, I don't consider PHP to be a reasonable choice for anything -- it's a godawful mess of a language that manages to take pretty much all of Perl's flaws and magnify them a thousandfold. Now that my bias is on the table, you could do what you want with either. How well do you know each? The learning curve is probably a little shallower with PHP, but if you already have a working knowledge of Perl, you'll have no problem learning what you need. Last I was looking for a job, PHP was a more salable skill (if career development is a consideration.) But I think Perl is fun, and PHP is evil. So pick whichever catches your fancy -- like I said, either could manage your website, and you're not likely to find any issues in this domain where one becomes suddenly clearly superior. On 11/27/05, Eugene wrote: > I'm thinking of upgrading my personal website, > mostly to make it easier to maintain. > I want to do this upgrade now while the site is small. > Initially, I'll likely focus on > header information and navigation. > I'm considering using either Perl CGI or PHP > as the basis for my upgrade. > > Later, I don't know exactly what I'll want to do. > However, whatever I do will likely be simple. > For example, I do not expect to need to interface > with a database. > > == Requests <<<<<< > (1) I'd appreciate your thoughts on > whether Perl CGI and PHP are reasonable choices. > (2) If you feel they are reasonable choices, > I'd appreciate any insights > that might assist me in choosing between them. > > Thanks, > Eugene > > P.S. So far, there's not much on my site, > though, at least, there are no under construction signs. > If you feel it would be useful to look at what I've created so far, > there is a link to my personal site > in my profile on the Oakland.pm site. > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > From joshnjillwait at yahoo.com Tue Nov 29 10:15:26 2005 From: joshnjillwait at yahoo.com (Joshua Wait) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:15:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [oak perl] Requests for Advise: Perl CGI or PHP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051129181526.75402.qmail@web53710.mail.yahoo.com> When it comes to deciding which language to use for developing a project, asking a group of Perl mongers for their advice will almost certainly end up with the answer "Perl, of course!". However, perhaps I can remain true to Perl and offer that Perl may not be the language of choice by invoking "there's more than one way to do it". You may be interested in reading this older article "Server-side Scripting Shootout". http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/99/46/index1a.html?tw=programming It doesn't include languages such as Python and Ruby which are growing in popularity. PHP may be a mess of a language but my guess is that it's possible to experience Perl as a mess of language as well. The key difference between Perl and PHP is that people who are looking for quick web solutions are turning to PHP instead of Perl because of PHP's current popularity. While I've seen plenty of bad perl code (including the gibberish I've written), it seems to me that I have found more really bad PHP code because more beginners flock to it. I think a key advantage of Perl over PHP is that you can use Perl much more handily for a greater variety of projects. I've even used Perl in a Cocoa app for building a utility in Mac OS X. I wouldn't dare try that with PHP. On the other hand, PHP comes with a lot of features you would want for delivering web content out of the box without having to run to CPAN and download a dozen modules. You may find yourself able to get up and running on the web with PHP faster. Culturally, PHP programmers tend to use an HTML page with code embedded in it. Perl programmers tend to use code with HTML embedded in it. If you feel more comfortable with HTML than with code, then you may find yourself more comfortable PHP than Perl. The reverse is also true. --JOSHUA --- oakland-request at pm.org wrote: > Send Oakland mailing list submissions to > oakland at pm.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > oakland-request at pm.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oakland-owner at pm.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oakland digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Test (Eugene) > 2. Requests for Advise: Perl CGI or PHP? (Eugene) > 3. Re: Requests for Advise: Perl CGI or PHP? (Zed > Lopez) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:00:15 -0800 > From: Eugene > Subject: [oak perl] Test > To: oakland at pm.org > Message-ID: <200511272100.15709.eugene at metaart.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Please ignore this test. > (I'm having some strange problems.) > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:03:47 -0800 > From: Eugene > Subject: [oak perl] Requests for Advise: Perl CGI or > PHP? > To: oakland at pm.org > Message-ID: <200511271911.27277.eugene at metaart.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I'm thinking of upgrading my personal website, > mostly to make it easier to maintain. > I want to do this upgrade now while the site is > small. > Initially, I'll likely focus on > header information and navigation. > I'm considering using either Perl CGI or PHP > as the basis for my upgrade. > > Later, I don't know exactly what I'll want to do. > However, whatever I do will likely be simple. > For example, I do not expect to need to interface > with a database. > > == Requests <<<<<< > (1) I'd appreciate your thoughts on > whether Perl CGI and PHP are reasonable > choices. > (2) If you feel they are reasonable choices, > I'd appreciate any insights > that might assist me in choosing between them. > > Thanks, > Eugene > > P.S. So far, there's not much on my site, > though, at least, there are no under construction > signs. > If you feel it would be useful to look at what I've > created so far, > there is a link to my personal site > in my profile on the Oakland.pm site. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:27:22 -0800 > From: Zed Lopez > Subject: Re: [oak perl] Requests for Advise: Perl > CGI or PHP? > To: Oakland Perl Mongers > Message-ID: > > <83a996de0511272327h4c86ef1fv22d353fc935673d9 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Eugene, > > With the sole exception of an application to be > distributed to users > in hosted environments, which tend to have mod_php > installed a lot > more often than mod_perl, I don't consider PHP to be > a reasonable > choice for anything -- it's a godawful mess of a > language that manages > to take pretty much all of Perl's flaws and magnify > them a > thousandfold. Now that my bias is on the table, you > could do what you > want with either. > > How well do you know each? The learning curve is > probably a little > shallower with PHP, but if you already have a > working knowledge of > Perl, you'll have no problem learning what you need. > Last I was > looking for a job, PHP was a more salable skill (if > career development > is a consideration.) But I think Perl is fun, and > PHP is evil. > > So pick whichever catches your fancy -- like I said, > either could > manage your website, and you're not likely to find > any issues in this > domain where one becomes suddenly clearly superior. > > On 11/27/05, Eugene wrote: > > I'm thinking of upgrading my personal website, > > mostly to make it easier to maintain. > > I want to do this upgrade now while the site is > small. > > Initially, I'll likely focus on > > header information and navigation. > > I'm considering using either Perl CGI or PHP > > as the basis for my upgrade. > > > > Later, I don't know exactly what I'll want to do. > > However, whatever I do will likely be simple. > > For example, I do not expect to need to interface > > with a database. > > > > == Requests <<<<<< > > (1) I'd appreciate your thoughts on > > whether Perl CGI and PHP are reasonable > choices. > > (2) If you feel they are reasonable choices, > > I'd appreciate any insights > > that might assist me in choosing between > them. > > > > Thanks, > > Eugene > > > > P.S. So far, there's not much on my site, > > though, at least, there are no under construction > signs. > > If you feel it would be useful to look at what > I've created so far, > > there is a link to my personal site > > in my profile on the Oakland.pm site. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > End of Oakland Digest, Vol 29, Issue 19 > *************************************** > --------------------- ArcSource Consulting "Providing Computer Support in the San Francisco Bay Area" http://www.arcsource.net __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From eugene at metaart.org Tue Nov 29 18:54:35 2005 From: eugene at metaart.org (Eugene) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:54:35 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Requests for Advise: Perl CGI or PHP? In-Reply-To: <83a996de0511272327h4c86ef1fv22d353fc935673d9@mail.gmail.com> References: <200511271911.27277.eugene@metaart.org> <83a996de0511272327h4c86ef1fv22d353fc935673d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200511291854.35471.eugene@metaart.org> Hi Zed, Thanks for your response. I don't have to distribute the site. However the space I have (which is free to me -- and I like that price) has PHP and Perl but not mod_perl. > How well do you know each? Probably, well enough to do the simple things I'll constrain myself to. Well, I'll probably end up looking up a few things. You say PHP is a godawful mess and that it's evil. I'm not clear what that means, however it sounds like if I keep it simple it won't likely bite me. Let me know if I'm confused on this. Eugene ---------------------------------------------- On Sunday 27 November 2005 11:27 pm, Zed Lopez wrote: > Hi Eugene, > > With the sole exception of an application to be distributed to users > in hosted environments, which tend to have mod_php installed a lot > more often than mod_perl, I don't consider PHP to be a reasonable > choice for anything -- it's a godawful mess of a language that manages > to take pretty much all of Perl's flaws and magnify them a > thousandfold. > Now that my bias is on the table, you could do what you > want with either. > > How well do you know each? The learning curve is probably a little > shallower with PHP, but if you already have a working knowledge of > Perl, you'll have no problem learning what you need. Last I was > looking for a job, PHP was a more salable skill (if career development > is a consideration.) But I think Perl is fun, and PHP is evil. > > So pick whichever catches your fancy -- like I said, either could > manage your website, and you're not likely to find any issues in this > domain where one becomes suddenly clearly superior. > > On 11/27/05, Eugene wrote: > > I'm thinking of upgrading my personal website, > > mostly to make it easier to maintain. > > I want to do this upgrade now while the site is small. > > Initially, I'll likely focus on > > header information and navigation. > > I'm considering using either Perl CGI or PHP > > as the basis for my upgrade. > > > > Later, I don't know exactly what I'll want to do. > > However, whatever I do will likely be simple. > > For example, I do not expect to need to interface > > with a database. > > > > == Requests <<<<<< > > (1) I'd appreciate your thoughts on > > whether Perl CGI and PHP are reasonable choices. > > (2) If you feel they are reasonable choices, > > I'd appreciate any insights > > that might assist me in choosing between them. > > > > Thanks, > > Eugene > > > > P.S. So far, there's not much on my site, > > though, at least, there are no under construction signs. > > If you feel it would be useful to look at what I've created so far, > > there is a link to my personal site > > in my profile on the Oakland.pm site. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From eugene at metaart.org Tue Nov 29 18:57:16 2005 From: eugene at metaart.org (Eugene) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:57:16 -0800 Subject: [oak perl] Requests for Advise: Perl CGI or PHP? In-Reply-To: <20051129181526.75402.qmail@web53710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051129181526.75402.qmail@web53710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200511291857.16349.eugene@metaart.org> Hi Joshua, Thanks for your response. I see your point about asking a group of Perl mongers for advice on this. Do you have a suggestion about where would be a good place to ask? Hm, maybe a Perl Mongers group is not such a bad place to ask. You explicitly invoke TIMTOWTDI. TIMTOWTDI seems to me to be at work in Zed's answer too. While he says PHP is a "goodawful language" and even That it's "Evil", he leaves lots of space for me to choose PHP. Or so it seems to me, but perhaps I'm reading through TIMTOWTDI colored glasses. I followed the link and read "Server-side Scripting Shootout". Given that it was a "shootout", I expected more blood, but I did find it interesting. > I think a key advantage of Perl over PHP is that you > can use Perl much more handily for a greater variety > of projects. I do expect to use mostly Perl for support tasks around the site. > Culturally, PHP programmers tend to use an HTML page > with code embedded in it. Perl programmers tend to use > code with HTML embedded in it. If you feel more > comfortable with HTML than with code, then you may > find yourself more comfortable PHP than Perl. The > reverse is also true. Interesting observation. I'll think about whether I prefer code embedded in HTML or HTML embedded in code. That could be the deciding factor. Again, thanks. George --------------------------------------------- On Tuesday 29 November 2005 10:15 am, Joshua Wait wrote: > When it comes to deciding which language to use for > developing a project, asking a group of Perl mongers > for their advice will almost certainly end up with the > answer "Perl, of course!". > > However, perhaps I can remain true to Perl and offer > that Perl may not be the language of choice by > invoking "there's more than one way to do it". > > You may be interested in reading this older article > "Server-side Scripting Shootout". > > http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/99/46/index1a.html?tw=programming > > It doesn't include languages such as Python and Ruby > which are growing in popularity. > > PHP may be a mess of a language but my guess is that > it's possible to experience Perl as a mess of language > as well. The key difference between Perl and PHP is > that people who are looking for quick web solutions > are turning to PHP instead of Perl because of PHP's > current popularity. While I've seen plenty of bad perl > code (including the gibberish I've written), it seems > to me that I have found more really bad PHP code > because more beginners flock to it. > > I think a key advantage of Perl over PHP is that you > can use Perl much more handily for a greater variety > of projects. I've even used Perl in a Cocoa app for > building a utility in Mac OS X. I wouldn't dare try > that with PHP. > > On the other hand, PHP comes with a lot of features > you would want for delivering web content out of the > box without having to run to CPAN and download a dozen > modules. You may find yourself able to get up and > running on the web with PHP faster. > > Culturally, PHP programmers tend to use an HTML page > with code embedded in it. Perl programmers tend to use > code with HTML embedded in it. If you feel more > comfortable with HTML than with code, then you may > find yourself more comfortable PHP than Perl. The > reverse is also true. > > --JOSHUA > > --- oakland-request at pm.org wrote: > > Send Oakland mailing list submissions to > > oakland at pm.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > > visit > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > > 'help' to > > oakland-request at pm.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > oakland-owner at pm.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > > is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Oakland digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Test (Eugene) > > 2. Requests for Advise: Perl CGI or PHP? (Eugene) > > 3. Re: Requests for Advise: Perl CGI or PHP? (Zed > > Lopez) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:00:15 -0800 > > From: Eugene > > Subject: [oak perl] Test > > To: oakland at pm.org > > Message-ID: <200511272100.15709.eugene at metaart.org> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Please ignore this test. > > (I'm having some strange problems.) > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:03:47 -0800 > > From: Eugene > > Subject: [oak perl] Requests for Advise: Perl CGI or > > PHP? > > To: oakland at pm.org > > Message-ID: <200511271911.27277.eugene at metaart.org> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > I'm thinking of upgrading my personal website, > > mostly to make it easier to maintain. > > I want to do this upgrade now while the site is > > small. > > Initially, I'll likely focus on > > header information and navigation. > > I'm considering using either Perl CGI or PHP > > as the basis for my upgrade. > > > > Later, I don't know exactly what I'll want to do. > > However, whatever I do will likely be simple. > > For example, I do not expect to need to interface > > with a database. > > > > == Requests <<<<<< > > (1) I'd appreciate your thoughts on > > whether Perl CGI and PHP are reasonable > > choices. > > (2) If you feel they are reasonable choices, > > I'd appreciate any insights > > that might assist me in choosing between them. > > > > Thanks, > > Eugene > > > > P.S. So far, there's not much on my site, > > though, at least, there are no under construction > > signs. > > If you feel it would be useful to look at what I've > > created so far, > > there is a link to my personal site > > in my profile on the Oakland.pm site. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:27:22 -0800 > > From: Zed Lopez > > Subject: Re: [oak perl] Requests for Advise: Perl > > CGI or PHP? > > To: Oakland Perl Mongers > > Message-ID: > > <83a996de0511272327h4c86ef1fv22d353fc935673d9 at mail.gmail.com> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > Hi Eugene, > > > > With the sole exception of an application to be > > distributed to users > > in hosted environments, which tend to have mod_php > > installed a lot > > more often than mod_perl, I don't consider PHP to be > > a reasonable > > choice for anything -- it's a godawful mess of a > > language that manages > > to take pretty much all of Perl's flaws and magnify > > them a > > thousandfold. Now that my bias is on the table, you > > could do what you > > want with either. > > > > How well do you know each? The learning curve is > > probably a little > > shallower with PHP, but if you already have a > > working knowledge of > > Perl, you'll have no problem learning what you need. > > Last I was > > looking for a job, PHP was a more salable skill (if > > career development > > is a consideration.) But I think Perl is fun, and > > PHP is evil. > > > > So pick whichever catches your fancy -- like I said, > > either could > > manage your website, and you're not likely to find > > any issues in this > > domain where one becomes suddenly clearly superior. > > > > On 11/27/05, Eugene wrote: > > > I'm thinking of upgrading my personal website, > > > mostly to make it easier to maintain. > > > I want to do this upgrade now while the site is > > > > small. > > > > > Initially, I'll likely focus on > > > header information and navigation. > > > I'm considering using either Perl CGI or PHP > > > as the basis for my upgrade. > > > > > > Later, I don't know exactly what I'll want to do. > > > However, whatever I do will likely be simple. > > > For example, I do not expect to need to interface > > > with a database. > > > > > > == Requests <<<<<< > > > (1) I'd appreciate your thoughts on > > > whether Perl CGI and PHP are reasonable > > > > choices. > > > > > (2) If you feel they are reasonable choices, > > > I'd appreciate any insights > > > that might assist me in choosing between > > > > them. > > > > > Thanks, > > > Eugene > > > > > > P.S. So far, there's not much on my site, > > > though, at least, there are no under construction > > > > signs. > > > > > If you feel it would be useful to look at what > > > > I've created so far, > > > > > there is a link to my personal site > > > in my profile on the Oakland.pm site. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Oakland mailing list > > > Oakland at pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > > > End of Oakland Digest, Vol 29, Issue 19 > > *************************************** > > --------------------- > ArcSource Consulting > "Providing Computer Support in the San Francisco Bay Area" > http://www.arcsource.net > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Music Unlimited > Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland